Curt Howland composed on 2025-08-23 23:52 (UTC-0400):

Felix Miata was heard to say:

...

That creates a minimal installation, IIRC with no GUI, or maybe just Xorg/X11 basics,

I tend to check the XFCE button, and then add TDE, selecting tdm as the login manager.

Keyword: IIRC. I don't ever install XFCE except on Mint, or remember whether Xorg/X11 is considered part of a basic Debian installation. That said, installing TDE requires it, so package dependencies can be expected to cover whatever need(s) may or may not already be met.

That way all the X11 dependencies are taken care of.

Building up from bare-bones takes more time, and the saving of disk space just isn't worth the effort anymore.

It's not about disk space. It's about clutter and waste. Upgrades and updates take longer, and waste bandwidth for no good reason.

I agree with dep that the additional crap, such as automatic directories, is annoying.

The "net-install" image for Debian Trixie is now the size of a full CD. I had to do a test build to see what changes there were to /etc/apt/sources.list so that my in-place upgrade would work correctly.

On fresh installations from scratch on empty disks it may matter, but as I have only one (laptop given me) with only one OS on it, and all 40+ other computers are multiboot, I don't have any need to download any isos regardless of size. I have all partitioning done in advance, download latest installation kernel and initrd, load them with grub and tasks=standard base-installer/install-recommends=false, so have no need to futz finding an available USB stick that works, waiting on a download or burn, or sha .iso or stick. With a new disk, I clone enough from something else to at least start Grub, if not a complete operational / filesystem. Installer processing is a nuisance easily enough avoided when package managers are so highly evolved and good at their jobs, including major upgrading typically done in 20 minutes or less from broadband internet.

On Sunday 24 August 2025 05:52:46 Curt Howland via tde-users wrote:

I tend to check the XFCE button, and then add TDE, selecting tdm as the login manager.

I second that, plus (IMHO) XFCE is the most usable desktop after TDE. I even use it for teaching, when I mostly run Openboard. I run Konqueror fromxfce as a file manager.

said Felix Miata via tde-users:

| Start regular NET installer using these options: | | tasks=standard base-installer/install-recommends=false

Thanks, though it doesn't resolve the problem I particularly have in mind, which is this: A lot of people are being told by the criminals at Microsoft that their computers are unfit for their latest spyware. I would like to recommend Debian/TDE to those persons, but there's no easy way to get there, and anyone bright enough to do it the hard way gave up Windows decades ago.

But it might be of help in solving another problem (though better suggestions are welcome): I have a tiny GPD Pocket machine with plenty of horsepower, but it can't boot from USB, though it otherwise reads USB sticks just fine. It is tragically running Microsoft-wannabe Ubuntu, and I want to replace it with Debian. My thought is to remove the /home partition from fstab and make a little /home with the /etc/skel files in the main partition, then with gparted make a small partitionm onto which I can dd the stuff from an install USB. Then add that to grub so I can boot from it, install Debian on the rest of the drive, and be donewith Ubuntu forever. I'm convinced, as I should have been 20 years ago, that no distribution except Debian can be trusted. (I know, some say not even Debian.)

dep wrote:

Thanks, though it doesn't resolve the problem I particularly have in mind, which is this: A lot of people are being told by the criminals at Microsoft that their computers are unfit for their latest spyware. I would like to recommend Debian/TDE to those persons, but there's no easy way to get there, and anyone bright enough to do it the hard way gave up Windows decades ago.

I had in mind even other features, like to build it also for 32-bit machines and a predefined non-english locale. This is why I built my custom live image [1] [2] with TDE (you can use it in english as well). Similar to official images: - Calamares installer (very simple to use) - TDM (ie native login manager) - ISO image for usb stick

I don't understand why you want an "official" image (I tryed the KDE one and I abandoned immediatly). I think the Debian community will never publish a live image based on packages outside official repos. You can just build it by yourself and publish it. And BTW, I don't like the tool that Debian use for building live images, I think kiwi-ng [3] is much better.

Regards

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/1m4vog3/32_bit_never_die/ [2] https://github.com/mbugni/tde-remix [3] https://osinside.github.io/kiwi/

dep wrote:

Given the unprecedented opportunity, I therefore hoped for a readily accessible image that would do thisfor those who find themselves in the position described above. Not looking for ways to cook up an iso but getting the iso in front of those who could benefit from it.

That's veeery nice. But, you could wait forever.

Meanwhile, I've created a reproducible live build that everyone can download and try [1]. Everyone can modify it and re-build it, if needed. This probably matches 90% of what you are looking for, so you could simply modify and publish what all those poor users need to be happy without M$ (I doubt, but nevermind).

Or, keep waiting.

Regards Massi

[1] https://github.com/mbugni/tde-remix/releases

said jacobheinrich--- via tde-users:

| Would you prefer the live ISO contain mostly the complete trinity suite | of applications (ie: trinity-desktop), or a more curated selection of | TDE utils on top of a minimum TDE install. Im trying to gauge what | people would prefer as I am now getting more free time to work on | matrixOS as I have now got a internet connection installed at the new | house! :) | | Remember, I would like to make the "every-persons" Trinity live-iso, any | suggestions, wants, needs, or nice-to-haves would be useful for me to | know.

My thoughts:

Yes, all of TDE, though not necessarily all o it installed -- not everyone will want KOffice, for instance. (Possibly because it isn't all that good.)

Two things that I noticed with the current Debian: First, and truly hellish, is that /etc/apt/sources.list is entirely unpopulated. This is a crime -- it leaves the user unable to get the important stuff (locate, mc) that the installation leaves out, as well as anything else they'd like. I'm sure they dreamt up a reason for this, but it's a nightmare. Second, the final part of the install procedure should be a "Check for updates?" checkbox that does an apt update&&upgrade.

Though you might not want to rewrite the Debian .iso, so fixing those two things would need to be a little script at the end, fixing sources.list to include the Debian repositories themselves and the TDE repository.

(I feel strongly about this after having just now installed Debian on the dinky GPD Pocket, which is 1920x1200 on a 7-inch screen that is -90-degrees oriented. Fixing these things requires microsopic glasses, though at least the mouse works once you hit xrandr with rotate right. I finally just emailed sources.list to myself and copied it into /etc/apt/. All the while marveling at the madness sometimes over at Debian.)

said Thierry de Coulon via tde-users:

| On Sunday 31 August 2025 00:33:53 dep via tde-users wrote: | > Two things that I noticed with the current Debian: First, and truly | > hellish, is that /etc/apt/sources.list is entirely unpopulated. | | I haven't tried Trixie yet (and maybe won't) but here | (MX) /etc/apt/sources.list says: | #this file is empty by default. Sources are under | /etc/apt/sources.list.d

And in Trixie:

# This system was installed using small removable media # (e.g. netinst, live or single CD). The matching "deb cdrom" # entries were disabled at the end of the installation process. # For information about how to configure apt package sources, # see the sources.list(5) manual.

The install populated /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ with *absolutely nothing.* This in, now, installation on three different machines. Aso when I did sudo apt install mc, I got the no such package available error, so it's not as if they hid it somewhere else.

I literally emailed my sources.list to myself to import it into the second and third machines.

| And as a matter of fact, debian.list is there, as well as mx.list, and I | crate a tde.list, and everything works fine, so I see no difference hwen | working with synaptic (which is my favourite way to install/uninstall).

Then apparently MX paid more attention than Debian did.

said Thierry de Coulon via tde-users:

| On Sunday 31 August 2025 22:20:50 dep via tde-users wrote: | > The install populated /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ with *absolutely | > nothing.* | | Yes, this sounds absurd. Experienced users will know what to do and be | able to edit a previous debian.list, but ppeople new to Debian will be | at a loss how to install anything.

Truly. I was gobsmacked. If I hadn't other machines containing sources.list, I would have been in deep trouble. I mean, I would have been ultimately able to find the stuff I need, but it would have been an unpleasant experience.

Here's another one: Remember when, if you tried to execute a command that requires root privileges, the error would tell you that you needed to be root to do that? Now it's simply "command not found." I discovered this when I tried to run synaptic, figuring I'd get the usual password box. instead, I got command not found, so I did sudo apt install synaptic and was told I had the latest version installed.

| Seems this has to do with a change: | "With Debian 13 (Trixie), APT now uses the deb822 format for managing | sources, replacing the old /etc/apt/sources.list. This change improves | readability, modularity, and security. Instead of a single line per | repo, sources are now structured with key-value pairs in | /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.sources."

Funny, there's no /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.sources on the new installs, either. So again we have simplification by over-complication. Are there KDE people now working over at Debian? Or maybe Canonical -- the new arrangement seems designed to drive people to snap or appinage or flatpak.

If they're looking for something to make readable, they should go after the "man" subsystem and leave the rest of us alone.

| Also seems synaptic does not (yet?) use the new format. From what I rad | apt should, but I can't test it.

Can't say for sure. Tried to check just now with Firefox as an example. The new distribution came with Firefox-ESR, which is kind of an abomination, and when I tried to install regular Firefox I was told the package was not found. So I went through the whole dog-and-pony show required to install Firefox:

(https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/install-firefox-linux#w_install-firefox...)

That does put a file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ and now Synaptic shows all kinds of Firefox stuff.

They also deprecated backports. Or something. I read into it a little way and found nothing in unbloated English, no "We've deprecated backports. Here's what you can do instead." (They kind of do, but it's pretty unsatisfactory.)

| I don't yet understand what it means - I'm waiting for MX 25 to come out | and I'll see how it is there. In the mean time it means one should keep | a copy of one's *.list files before installing Trixie.

Yes. I'm beginning to think that installing Debian (maybe all Linuces now) requires two machines, one you're installing to and the other to bail you out when things begin to make no sense. Which they do pretty quickly in the Trixie release.

| One of the reasons why - as far as possible - I usually install a | computer with two systems, so that I only move to the new system when I | know it's working, and can fall back to the old one if necessary (Like | the Japanese, who build a new temple while using the old one...).

Wise, I think.

said Mike Bird via tde-users: | On Sun August 31 2025 16:37:56 dep via tde-users wrote: | > Here's another one: Remember when, if you tried to execute a command | > that requires root privileges, the error would tell you that you | > needed to be root to do that? Now it's simply "command not found." I | > discovered this when I tried to run synaptic, figuring I'd get the | > usual password box. instead, I got command not found, so I did sudo | > apt install synaptic and was told I had the latest version installed. | | In a typical linux setup, /usr/sbin and/or /sbin and/or /usr/local/sbin | are on root's $PATH but not on the $PATH of regular users. | | Contrariwise, root's $PATH usually doesn't have the .../game | directories.

So I've been using atypical Linux since 1998?

Sorry for top posting -- on tablet -- but with the try-before-you-buy CDs the question in never asked. At least not on the LXQT one.

dep Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/

-------- Original Message -------- On 9/1/25 03:14, Thierry de Coulon via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:

On Monday 01 September 2025 01:37:56 dep via tde-users wrote:

...

Funny, there's no /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.sources on the new installs, either.

Found this: "This is normal unless you enable network repo access during installation it doesn't configure any repos other than the CDROM one."

Seems you do get the sources if you install from a netinstall iso. Don't know if people miss the "enable network repo" or is not there.

I'll download Trixie and test this in a VM when I have time. ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...

On Saturday 30 August 2025 15:33:53 dep via tde-users wrote:

said jacobheinrich--- via tde-users:

My thoughts:

Though you might not want to rewrite the Debian .iso, so fixing those two things would need to be a little script at the end, fixing sources.list to include the Debian repositories themselves and the TDE repository.

I agree that it would be a great help to have the sources.list adapted to the needs of TDE wannabe users and noobs. If they must go chasing to find the repositories, this just makes for a frustrating first experience.

We are, after all, talking about creating installation discs specifically for Trinity.

Bill