19 Apr
2024
19 Apr
'24
11:05 a.m.
I just ran into polkit hell + network-manager - like Bill. This is how to get
network-manager working for your user, so you do not need to run it as root:
Check your permissions - if you get "yes" on all lines, you are good, but then
you won't have network-manager issues at all:
$ nmcli gen permissions
If you don't get "yes on all lines, then create this file:
#/etc/polkit-1/rules.d/50-org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.rules
polkit.addRule(function(action, subject) {
if (action.id == "org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.network-control")
return "yes";
});
Now check again - all lines should say "yes":
$ nmcli gen permissions
Now you can do bad stuff with network connections from all your systms users, but as you
most likely are the only system user it should be ok:
$ nmtui
Nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
19 Apr
19 Apr
9:01 p.m.
New subject: network issues - tdenetworkmanager
On Friday 19 April 2024 04:05:24 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users wrote:
I just ran into polkit hell + network-manager - like
Bill. This is how to
get network-manager working for your user, so you do not need to run it as
root:
Check your permissions - if you get "yes" on all lines, you are good, but
then you won't have network-manager issues at all: $ nmcli gen permissions
If you don't get "yes on all lines, then create this file:
#/etc/polkit-1/rules.d/50-org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.rules
polkit.addRule(function(action, subject) {
if (action.id == "org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.network-control")
return "yes";
});
Now check again - all lines should say "yes":
$ nmcli gen permissions
Now you can do bad stuff with network connections from all your systms
users, but as you most likely are the only system user it should be ok:
$ nmtui
Nik
Hi Nik!
At present my network is working just fine; although tdenetworkmanager does
sometimes crash, especially if I have gone offline then back online. Then it
crashes, must be restarted, and I must also restart a few other network
tools. It doesn't happen too often, seems to go in spurts.
A few days ago, I had a weird incident where the system froze, then shut down,
and restarted a new session (with tdenetworkmanager already started up), and
I thought that this was very odd, as it seems like I was deliberately
disconnected by somebody, maybe in an attempt to learn something about my
connection? Anyway, I just restarted all over, and things have running just
fine since then, so I will hope that it was only a glitch.
As for polkit-type stuff, I believe I said it before, but these seem to be my
problem children in relation to polkit:
polkit-agent-tde
xiccd
at-spi-bus-laun
agent
applet.py
xapp-sn-watcher
I have them marked not to be installed, and if I do catch them getting
installed, then I use apt-get or dpkg to purge them. When they are installed,
they seem always to run at the top of top, and hog a lot of cpu. When they
are purged from my system, it seems to run better overall, and certainly
doesn't miss these packages.
Your comments and solution will be filed away in my notes, however, as they
may prove to be useful at some point in the future.
Thanks Nik!
Bill
11:29 p.m.
New subject: network issues - tdenetworkmanager - P.S.
On Friday 19 April 2024 04:05:24 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users wrote:
I just ran into polkit hell + network-manager - like
Bill. This is how to
get network-manager working for your user, so you do not need to run it as
root:
Check your permissions - if you get "yes" on all lines, you are good, but
then you won't have network-manager issues at all: $ nmcli gen permissions
If you don't get "yes on all lines, then create this file:
#/etc/polkit-1/rules.d/50-org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.rules
polkit.addRule(function(action, subject) {
if (action.id == "org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.network-control")
return "yes";
});
Now check again - all lines should say "yes":
$ nmcli gen permissions
Now you can do bad stuff with network connections from all your systms
users, but as you most likely are the only system user it should be ok:
$ nmtui
Nik
For what it's worth, here is the output that I get:
$ nmcli gen permissions
PERMISSION VALUE
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.checkpoint-rollback auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-connectivity-check yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-network yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-statistics yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wifi yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wimax yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wwan yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.network-control yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.reload auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.global-dns auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.hostname auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.own yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.system yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.sleep-wake no
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.scan yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.share.open yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.share.protected yes
Not quite YES on every line. Don't know if auth is good or bad, and only one
line is NO. But maybe I don't want that, anyway? It looks like that would
connect the network on wake?
Bill
20 Apr
20 Apr
5:04 a.m.
New subject: network issues - tdenetworkmanager - P.S.
On 2024/04/20 08:29 AM, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Don't know if auth is good or bad
"Auth" will require authentication and if you have the TDE polkit agent
installed, you should get a small window open on
your screen when that is required.
Cheers
Michele
5:34 p.m.
New subject: network issues - tdenetworkmanager - P.S.
On Friday 19 April 2024 22:04:57 Michele Calgaro via tde-users wrote:
On 2024/04/20 08:29 AM, William Morder via tde-users
wrote:
I don't use polkit-agent-tde. It is one of those packages that I have marked
never to install, and if it somehow does get installed, I purge it as soon as
I catch it.
In the previous email responding to Nik, I list those packages that get
purged, which seem to be related to polkit. As I said, these programs or
applications, when installed, always run at the top of top, and eat up a lot
of CPU, and my system seems to run fine without them.
Whatever is marked auth on that list (second email response, the P.S.), it is
not polkit-agent-tde or anything to do with it.
Bill
Don't know if auth is good or bad
"Auth" will require authentication and if you have the TDE polkit agent
installed, you should get a small window open on your screen when that is
required.
Cheers
Michele
5:39 p.m.
New subject: network issues - tdenetworkmanager - P.S.
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2024 Fri, 19 Apr 16:29:44 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
On Friday 19 April 2024 04:05:24 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users wrote:
IMO auth is ok - if you really get an authentication dialog. I didn't get any and I
had mst stuff set on "no". The problem with
"org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.sleep-wake" is that ut's not clear what it
does - and if there is any documentation to look it up I've not found it yet. For me
it's totally baffeling how somebody with a sane mind would develop such a monstrosity.
Most likly it's corporate stuff developed by managers and GNOMES ...
Anyway, I have these after adding the mentioned file and networkmanager behavers
"sane" - which translates to "does not get in my way":
$ nmcli gen permissions
PERMISSION VALUE
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.checkpoint-rollback ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-connectivity-check ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-network ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-statistics ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wifi ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wimax ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wwan ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.network-control ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.reload ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.global-dns ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.hostname ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.own ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.system ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.sleep-wake ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.scan ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.share.open ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.share.protected ja
Nik
I just ran into polkit hell + network-manager -
like Bill. This is how to
get network-manager working for your user, so you do not need to run it as
root:
Check your permissions - if you get "yes" on all lines, you are good, but
then you won't have network-manager issues at all: $ nmcli gen permissions
If you don't get "yes on all lines, then create this file:
#/etc/polkit-1/rules.d/50-org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.rules
polkit.addRule(function(action, subject) {
if (action.id == "org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.network-control")
return "yes";
});
Now check again - all lines should say "yes":
$ nmcli gen permissions
Now you can do bad stuff with network connections from all your systms
users, but as you most likely are the only system user it should be ok:
$ nmtui
Nik
For what it's worth, here is the output that I get:
$ nmcli gen permissions
PERMISSION VALUE
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.checkpoint-rollback auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-connectivity-check yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-network yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-statistics yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wifi yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wimax yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wwan yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.network-control yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.reload auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.global-dns auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.hostname auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.own yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.system yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.sleep-wake no
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.scan yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.share.open yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.share.protected yes
Not quite YES on every line. Don't know if auth is good or bad, and only one
line is NO. But maybe I don't want that, anyway? It looks like that would
connect the network on wake?
Bill
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--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
5:58 p.m.
New subject: network issues - tdenetworkmanager - P.S.
On Saturday 20 April 2024 10:39:14 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users wrote:
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2024 Fri, 19 Apr 16:29:44 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
It goes without saying, make a backup of that file that I would be changing,
before attempting this. However, I do like when my networkmanager just works,
and doesn't get in my way.
Bill
On Friday 19 April 2024 04:05:24 Dr. Nikolaus
Klepp via tde-users wrote:
IMO auth is ok - if you really get an authentication dialog. I didn't get
any and I had mst stuff set on "no". The problem with
"org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.sleep-wake" is that ut's not clear what it
does - and if there is any documentation to look it up I've not found it
yet. For me it's totally baffeling how somebody with a sane mind would
develop such a monstrosity. Most likly it's corporate stuff developed by
managers and GNOMES ...
Anyway, I have these after adding the mentioned file and networkmanager
behavers "sane" - which translates to "does not get in my way":
$ nmcli gen permissions
PERMISSION VALUE
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.checkpoint-rollback ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-connectivity-check ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-network ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-statistics ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wifi ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wimax ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wwan ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.network-control ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.reload ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.global-dns ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.hostname ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.own ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.system ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.sleep-wake ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.scan ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.share.open ja
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.share.protected ja
Nik I just ran into polkit hell + network-manager -
like Bill. This is how
to get network-manager working for your user, so you do not need to run
it as root:
Check your permissions - if you get "yes" on all lines, you are good,
but then you won't have network-manager issues at all: $ nmcli gen
permissions
If you don't get "yes on all lines, then create this file:
#/etc/polkit-1/rules.d/50-org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.rules
polkit.addRule(function(action, subject) {
if (action.id == "org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.network-control")
return "yes";
});
Now check again - all lines should say "yes":
$ nmcli gen permissions
Now you can do bad stuff with network connections from all your systms
users, but as you most likely are the only system user it should be ok:
$ nmtui
Nik
For what it's worth, here is the output that I get:
$ nmcli gen permissions
PERMISSION VALUE
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.checkpoint-rollback auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-connectivity-check yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-network yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-statistics yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wifi yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wimax yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wwan yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.network-control yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.reload auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.global-dns auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.hostname auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.own yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.system yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.sleep-wake no
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.scan yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.share.open yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.share.protected yes
Not quite YES on every line. Don't know if auth is good or bad, and only
one line is NO. But maybe I don't want that, anyway? It looks like that
would connect the network on wake?
7:22 p.m.
New subject: network issues - tdenetworkmanager - P.S.
On Saturday 20 April 2024 10:58:43 William Morder wrote:
On Saturday 20 April 2024 10:39:14 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp
via tde-users wrote:
>
> IMO auth is ok - if you really get an authentication dialog. I didn't get
> any and I had mst stuff set on "no". The problem with
> "org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.sleep-wake" is that ut's not clear
what
> it does - and if there is any documentation to look it up I've not found
> it yet. For me it's totally baffeling how somebody with a sane mind would
> develop such a monstrosity. Most likly it's corporate stuff developed by
> managers and GNOMES ...
>
> Anyway, I have these after adding the mentioned file and networkmanager
> behavers "sane" - which translates to "does not get in my way":
>
Okay, so I created such a file, then ran that command again, but I see no
change. Here is my output:
nmcli gen permissions
PERMISSION VALUE
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.checkpoint-rollback auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-connectivity-check yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-network yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-statistics yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wifi yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wimax yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wwan yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.network-control yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.reload auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.global-dns auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.hostname auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.own yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.system yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.sleep-wake no
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.scan yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.share.open yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.share.protected yes
Maybe I need to restart my machine? restart my session? restart
tdenetworkmanager? When I get a moment to try these steps ...
Bill
21 Apr
21 Apr
7:52 p.m.
New subject: network issues - tdenetworkmanager - P.S.
On Saturday 20 April 2024 10:58:43 William Morder wrote:
On Saturday 20 April 2024 10:39:14 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp
via tde-users wrote:
>
> IMO auth is ok - if you really get an authentication dialog. I didn't get
> any and I had mst stuff set on "no". The problem with
> "org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.sleep-wake" is that ut's not clear
what
> it does - and if there is any documentation to look it up I've not found
> it yet. For me it's totally baffeling how somebody with a sane mind would
> develop such a monstrosity. Most likly it's corporate stuff developed by
> managers and GNOMES ...
>
> Anyway, I have these after adding the mentioned file and networkmanager
> behavers "sane" - which translates to "does not get in my way":
>
Maybe I need to restart my machine? restart my session?
restart
tdenetworkmanager? When I get a moment to try these steps ...
In the interest of others in the future who may wish to know about these
things, I have made the sacrifice, and rebooted my machine. And anyway, top
was showing 24 zombies, so I thought I might as well.
Now, I have already created that file for polkit,
#/etc/polkit-1/rules.d/50-org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.rules
I made it readable for all users, just to be sure it would get noticed, if it
were to have any effect. (By the way, there was nothing there; it was just an
empty folder.) I followed Nik's prescription to the letter, I believe, then I
ran that command; and again I get the same output, nothing changed.
I don't think it was supposed to be an executable file, and doesn't look like
a shell script, so I can only suppose that my machine behaves differently
from Nik's, though I don't know why.
Restarting network, session, and even rebooting the machine cause no c
nmcli gen permissions
PERMISSION VALUE
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.checkpoint-rollback auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-connectivity-check yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-network yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-statistics yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wifi yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wimax yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wwan yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.network-control yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.reload auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.global-dns auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.hostname auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.own yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.system yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.sleep-wake no
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.scan yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.share.open yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.share.protected yes
By the way, anybody who has an idea how to kill off all zombies, I would be
interested. Not that they're really doing anything bad, I guess, but
sometimes I see 36 or 42 zombies, and it's annoying that they don't just go
away by themselves. But that ought to be a separate thread! if I get around
to it.
Bill
23 Apr
23 Apr
7:29 a.m.
New subject: network issues - tdenetworkmanager - P.S.
Anno domini 2024 Sun, 21 Apr 12:52:26 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
On Saturday 20 April 2024 10:58:43 William Morder wrote:
Great :/ I'm on Devuan Ceres now and that has allmost all polkit configs removed
--> a default rule that makes my user great again was needed. On excalibur and earlier
there were rules with different effects buried in the depths of polkit configs --> you
get interesting results like you see yourself. It might help to grap through all the rules
in search for org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.
Nik
On Saturday 20 April 2024 10:39:14 Dr. Nikolaus
Klepp via tde-users wrote:
>
> IMO auth is ok - if you really get an authentication dialog. I didn't get
> any and I had mst stuff set on "no". The problem with
> "org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.sleep-wake" is that ut's not clear
what
> it does - and if there is any documentation to look it up I've not found
> it yet. For me it's totally baffeling how somebody with a sane mind would
> develop such a monstrosity. Most likly it's corporate stuff developed by
> managers and GNOMES ...
>
> Anyway, I have these after adding the mentioned file and networkmanager
> behavers "sane" - which translates to "does not get in my way":
>
Maybe I need to restart my machine? restart my
session? restart
tdenetworkmanager? When I get a moment to try these steps ...
In the interest of others in the future who may wish to know about these
things, I have made the sacrifice, and rebooted my machine. And anyway, top
was showing 24 zombies, so I thought I might as well.
Now, I have already created that file for polkit,
#/etc/polkit-1/rules.d/50-org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.rules
I made it readable for all users, just to be sure it would get noticed, if it
were to have any effect. (By the way, there was nothing there; it was just an
empty folder.) I followed Nik's prescription to the letter, I believe, then I
ran that command; and again I get the same output, nothing changed.
I don't think it was supposed to be an executable file, and doesn't look like
a shell script, so I can only suppose that my machine behaves differently
from Nik's, though I don't know why.
Restarting network, session, and even rebooting the machine cause no c
nmcli gen permissions
PERMISSION VALUE
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.checkpoint-rollback auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-connectivity-check yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-network yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-statistics yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wifi yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wimax yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-wwan yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.network-control yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.reload auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.global-dns auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.hostname auth
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.own yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.system yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.sleep-wake no
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.scan yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.share.open yes
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.wifi.share.protected yes
By the way, anybody who has an idea how to kill off all zombies, I would be
interested. Not that they're really doing anything bad, I guess, but
sometimes I see 36 or 42 zombies, and it's annoying that they don't just go
away by themselves. But that ought to be a separate thread! if I get around
to it.
How do you kill the dead? Kill their master! But as they are not guaranteed to be stupid
kind of undead that die when their master is gone your milage may vary. killing lord vlad
might help, but real kombies don't care :)
https://www.baeldung.com/linux/clean-zombie-process
Nik
Bill
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Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
3:52 p.m.
New subject: how to kill zombies
On Tuesday 23 April 2024 00:29:47 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users wrote:
My life's work has already been made into a 1964 film starring Vincent Price:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Man_on_Earth_%281964_film%29
In the film version they are zombie-like creatures.
I did a little research already about how to kill zombies, and this only
confirms what I found: namely, that there is no easy one-size-fits-all
solution. One has to track them down and kill them and/or their parents.
On one occasion, when I tried to kill dozens of zombie entries marked only w,
I was actually killing the session. This was not a pleasant experience, as I
still had open windows and unfinished work, then discover that I've shut down
everything and lost that work.
Well, like I said, they are annoyances, when I see that I have a lot of zombie
processes, but they aren't actually doing anything either good or bad.
Bill
Anno domini 2024 Sun, 21 Apr 12:52:26 -0700
By the way, anybody who has an idea how to kill
off all zombies, I would
be interested. Not that they're really doing anything bad, I guess, but
sometimes I see 36 or 42 zombies, and it's annoying that they don't just
go away by themselves. But that ought to be a separate thread! if I get
around to it.
How do you kill the dead? Kill their master! But as they are not guaranteed
to be stupid kind of undead that die when their master is gone your milage
may vary. killing lord vlad might help, but real kombies don't care :)
https://www.baeldung.com/linux/clean-zombie-process
Nik
242
days inactive
246
days old
10 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
-
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
Michele Calgaro -
William Morder