19 Oct
2019
19 Oct
'19
3:01 a.m.
Hello folks,
Been using TDE on openSUSE for a while(and S.u.S.E since v5.3 *sigh*)
but I think it's time to move to a non systemD infested distro. I'm
not here to debate the merits of it, I've made my decision and I'm
looking for advice from those that run TDE on distros that don't use
systemD.
There's Devuan(never really been a fan of Debian or uBuntu tho). I'm
just afraid that Devuan won't be able to keep up.
Would love to go back to Slackware, but it seems the lastest version
is 3.5.13ish??
Anyway, if you use a non-systemD distro, please let me know how TDE works on it.
Thanx
19 Oct
19 Oct
4 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Advice for distro without systemD
Larry Stotler wrote:
looking for advice from those that run TDE on distros
that don't use
systemD.
I use PCLinuxOS tde-mini
https://pclosusers.com/communityiso/Trinity/
1:38 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Advice for distro without systemD
PCLinuxOS is a great distro if you don't want Systemd. It is unfortunately
not gaming centric but if that is not your use case go for it.
4:55 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Advice for distro without systemD - my list
On Friday 18 October 2019 20:01:17 Larry Stotler wrote:
Hello folks,
Been using TDE on openSUSE for a while(and S.u.S.E since v5.3 *sigh*)
but I think it's time to move to a non systemD infested distro. I'm
not here to debate the merits of it, I've made my decision and I'm
looking for advice from those that run TDE on distros that don't use
systemD.
There's Devuan(never really been a fan of Debian or uBuntu tho). I'm
just afraid that Devuan won't be able to keep up.
Would love to go back to Slackware, but it seems the lastest version
is 3.5.13ish??
Anyway, if you use a non-systemD distro, please let me know how TDE works
on it.
Thanx
Hi there. Here is a list of those of which I have at least some experience. I
hope this helps.
Bill
I went through several attempts, none totally successful, to run TDE with
Debian on an old machine. There is a whole list of them here:
https://devuan.org/os/partners/devuan-distros
1. ExeGnuLinux - TDE is the default
The first no-systemd OS I heard about was ExeGnuLinux, based on Devuan. They
say all the right things, and their installer *seems* to work pretty well
(although it is quite different from the minimalist "classic" Debian-type
installers); however, I never could get it to run properly, or even to boot
up at all after installation.
http://exegnulinux.net/
2. AntiX - TDE is the default
Also, AntiX was pretty good, and I believe I remember that it is no-systemd.
It was small, fast, not unattractive, seemed stable, etc. However, it would
not let me configure internal SATA hdds on a Frankenstein desktop that I
build out of spare parts; I might have been able to do that using gparted or
parted, etc., after installation, but that's a bother. It seems that this
distro was developed by, and for, people who run laptops or similar setups,
who maybe cannot imagine anybody out there who is still running a desktop.
And last, it changed the permissions in my home folder; perhaps for the
better, but again, I like to be in control, even if I sometimes mess it up.
https://antixlinux.com/
3. Devuan NETINST - no TDE choice in menu - I use MATE during installation.
I tried Devuan as soon as it came out, but it wasn't until I tried the NETINST
CD that everything seemed to click, and I haven't had any major problems for
a year or more. For me it works best when I install TDE later, after pretty
much everything else.
https://devuan.org/os/
https://devuan.org/os/documentation/install
https://files.devuan.org/?ref=/os/download
I have almost no complaints, as it is a very stable system. I would like to
see a Devuan installation disc (esp., a NETINST CD), so that I could have my
TDE desktop right away, then continue with installing the rest of my
packages. When I upgrade my distribution, as just recently, some of my
personalized configurations are changed; for example, my customized login
screen, as well as some other niggling but nagging quirks or maybe bugs. I am
forced to bounce back and forth between using tdenetworkmanager and wicd-gtk
as to control my network connection and settings. For some reason, about
every third time I reinstall, I have to change from using one or the other.
There are a few other weird things that I am trying to figure out, but they
are not irritating enough that I should tell all the readers on the TDE
mailing list. Over all, this has been my choice now for quite a while, and it
has been maybe 6 months since I've had to reinstall my system or deal with
any major problems.
4. Linnix - based on Devuan, no TDE, but supposed to be for users who "like to
customize" their desktops. I have a disc of the latest release. Again, it
sounds good; but I only sort of half-remember booting it up, then going back
to my stable Devuan system.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/linnix/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/linnix/files/
5. Heads - the Devuan version of Tails
I tried out Tails a few years ago, and it worked pretty well. I would hope
that the Devuan version, Heads, works as well or better. I don't have a
system to set up with Heads at the moment; I don't know if it's possible to
install Heads or Tails in the way of most Linux systems. I did try booting it
up, but I would have needed to change my partitions, etc., so I didn't
continue. I was thinking of giving it another try, once I manage to put
together a few other machines into a network. Seems to work like Tails,
though.
https://heads.dyne.org/
7:56 a.m.
Larry Stotler wrote:
Been using TDE on openSUSE for a while(and S.u.S.E
since v5.3 *sigh*)
but I think it's time to move to a non systemD infested distro. I'm
not here to debate the merits of it, I've made my decision and I'm
looking for advice from those that run TDE on distros that don't use
systemD.
There's Devuan(never really been a fan of Debian or uBuntu tho). I'm
just afraid that Devuan won't be able to keep up.
Would love to go back to Slackware, but it seems the lastest version
is 3.5.13ish??
Anyway, if you use a non-systemD distro, please let me know how TDE works
on it.
When you define a problem, you can also find a solution - simply saying "I
don't like it" is not a problem definition.
I've been using Debian with sysv-init, but only because systemd was causing
problems and I needed time to learn it. The concept of keeping systemd and
using init was a very good solution. I think I'll keep it on the server,
but for the desktop, I do not see a reason why you should not use systemd.
I guess you are also not driving a car from the 30ies.
regards
8:09 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Advice for distro without systemD
Anno domini 2019 Sat, 19 Oct 09:56:23 +0200
deloptes scripsit:
Larry Stotler wrote:
systemd has nothing to do with "modern" or "better", it's just
redhat controlling the market. More SLOC than the linux kernel but just a hand full of
developers does not sound like a sane plan - well, if your business model rests on it, it
is a sane plan, as a customer I'd run as fast as I could.
Nik
Been using TDE on openSUSE for a while(and
S.u.S.E since v5.3 *sigh*)
but I think it's time to move to a non systemD infested distro. I'm
not here to debate the merits of it, I've made my decision and I'm
looking for advice from those that run TDE on distros that don't use
systemD.
There's Devuan(never really been a fan of Debian or uBuntu tho). I'm
just afraid that Devuan won't be able to keep up.
Would love to go back to Slackware, but it seems the lastest version
is 3.5.13ish??
Anyway, if you use a non-systemD distro, please let me know how TDE works
on it.
When you define a problem, you can also find a solution - simply saying "I
don't like it" is not a problem definition.
I've been using Debian with sysv-init, but only because systemd was causing
problems and I needed time to learn it. The concept of keeping systemd and
using init was a very good solution. I think I'll keep it on the server,
but for the desktop, I do not see a reason why you should not use systemd.
I guess you are also not driving a car from the 30ies.
regards
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1:09 p.m.
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
systemd has nothing to do with "modern" or
"better", it's just redhat
controlling the market. More SLOC than the linux kernel but just a hand
full of developers does not sound like a sane plan - well, if your
business model rests on it, it is a sane plan, as a customer I'd run as
fast as I could.
No it is not correct and it has been discussed many many times. IF you read
the history, you would also understand why the decision to develop systemd
was taken.
My tests show that it behaves good on buster, so my plan is to use it on the
desktop and notebook - for the server it is not relevant.
I was also sceptic in the beginning and needed some time to understand the
background and also the background of the conflicting opinions.
The point is, how I understood it, if you have many subsystems that you want
to interact with each other, you need a kind of manager. Obviously the init
and xinitd are not meeting expectations.
For me it is important to have alternative and debian provides such. No
reason to be paranoid about RH. Also I have not seen issues on the RHEL
servers, I am working with, that could point to systemd.
I think the main problem is the decision taken by the major distros to
impose it to the user, without alternative and as usual in too early stage,
when the problems were massive. Today - I don't know my impression is
neutral to positive.
regards
2:05 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: Advice for distro without systemD
Anno domini 2019 Sat, 19 Oct 15:09:14 +0200
deloptes scripsit:
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Hi!
I'm quite aware of the history and why it has taken this path. And you mind if I
object your tests, as mine showed systemd to be quite a PITA. It did not deliver a single
point for what it was sold as the only salvation, just on the contrary. Today there's
a shism introduced by systemd between "desktop" "server" and
"embedded" that make things interestion on linux.
Nik
systemd has nothing to do with "modern"
or "better", it's just redhat
controlling the market. More SLOC than the linux kernel but just a hand
full of developers does not sound like a sane plan - well, if your
business model rests on it, it is a sane plan, as a customer I'd run as
fast as I could.
No it is not correct and it has been discussed many many times. IF you read
the history, you would also understand why the decision to develop systemd
was taken.
My tests show that it behaves good on buster, so my plan is to use it on the
desktop and notebook - for the server it is not relevant.
I was also sceptic in the beginning and needed some time to understand the
background and also the background of the conflicting opinions.
The point is, how I understood it, if you have many subsystems that you want
to interact with each other, you need a kind of manager. Obviously the init
and xinitd are not meeting expectations.
For me it is important to have alternative and debian provides such. No
reason to be paranoid about RH. Also I have not seen issues on the RHEL
servers, I am working with, that could point to systemd.
I think the main problem is the decision taken by the major distros to
impose it to the user, without alternative and as usual in too early stage,
when the problems were massive. Today - I don't know my impression is
neutral to positive.
regards
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12:28 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Advice for distro without systemD
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 09:56:23 +0200
deloptes <deloptes(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Larry Stotler wrote:
Sigh. I have seen *so many* of these arguments spattered across the Internet.
Like vi versus emacs, it's become a religious dispute that doesn't allow for
objective discussion of merits. Please don't beat a dead horse. Just accept that
some people dislike or mistrust systemd, and move on. The alternatives *are*
being maintained and are perfectly serviceable.
To answer the OP's question: While Gentoo is OpenRC by default, I don't
recommend it for your case, because getting TDE installed here is a non-trivial
undertaking. I keep meaning to try again to do something about that.
E. Liddell
Been using TDE on openSUSE for a while(and
S.u.S.E since v5.3 *sigh*)
but I think it's time to move to a non systemD infested distro. I'm
not here to debate the merits of it, I've made my decision and I'm
looking for advice from those that run TDE on distros that don't use
systemD.
There's Devuan(never really been a fan of Debian or uBuntu tho). I'm
just afraid that Devuan won't be able to keep up.
Would love to go back to Slackware, but it seems the lastest version
is 3.5.13ish??
Anyway, if you use a non-systemD distro, please let me know how TDE works
on it.
When you define a problem, you can also find a solution - simply saying "I
don't like it" is not a problem definition.
I've been using Debian with sysv-init, but only because systemd was causing
problems and I needed time to learn it. The concept of keeping systemd and
using init was a very good solution. I think I'll keep it on the server,
but for the desktop, I do not see a reason why you should not use systemd.
I guess you are also not driving a car from the 30ies.
1:16 p.m.
E. Liddell wrote:
Sigh. I have seen *so many* of these arguments
spattered across the
Internet. Like vi versus emacs, it's become a religious dispute that
doesn't allow for objective discussion of merits. Please don't beat a
dead horse. Just accept that some people dislike or mistrust systemd, and
move on. The alternatives *are* being maintained and are perfectly
serviceable.
To answer the OP's question: While Gentoo is OpenRC by default, I don't
recommend it for your case, because getting TDE installed here is a
non-trivial undertaking. I keep meaning to try again to do something
about that.
I think it is more important to understand the problem, than to answer the
question, because the question might be based on outdated or invalid
information. If you read mail threads about systemd (and I myself wrote
some) from 4-5y ago you get a very wrong impression.
There are couple of good videos on that topic that help understand the
problem and the decision to build and history of systemd.
As for the systemd free distro question: One must decide first if it should
be really systemd free (means systemd removed completely) or systemd is not
the init system.
The first case is what I think can be handled as a dead horse or
neandertals - you will loose a lot of applications and functionality that
can not be provided without system.
The second approach is in my opinion acceptable if systemd causes problems
as init manager.
regards
2:50 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: Advice for distro without systemD
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 15:16:18 +0200
deloptes <deloptes(a)gmail.com> wrote:
E. Liddell wrote:
Many people dislike systemd because of the philosophy behind it, because
of the general behaviour of Red Hat and the people working for that company,
or because they know the behaviour of sysvinit and how to tune it for their
use case very well and don't want to have to relearn everything. There aren't
very many people still holding out for purely technical reasons. In other words,
the "problem" is probably that systemd is systemd.
There are others who've already tried it and didn't like it and aren't
interested in
you trying to refute their reasons point-by-point if they even remember them
anymore. All you'll do by trying is raise the temperature in here . . . because the
problem isn't the specific features that were buggy or didn't work, it's that
the
software was released at all in a state that wasn't ready for use where these
people were concerned, and gave them a bad impression. You can't fix that
without a time machine.
Sigh. I have seen *so many* of these arguments
spattered across the
Internet. Like vi versus emacs, it's become a religious dispute that
doesn't allow for objective discussion of merits. Please don't beat a
dead horse. Just accept that some people dislike or mistrust systemd, and
move on. The alternatives *are* being maintained and are perfectly
serviceable.
To answer the OP's question: While Gentoo is OpenRC by default, I don't
recommend it for your case, because getting TDE installed here is a
non-trivial undertaking. I keep meaning to try again to do something
about that.
I think it is more important to understand the problem, than to answer the
question, because the question might be based on outdated or invalid
information. If you read mail threads about systemd (and I myself wrote
some) from 4-5y ago you get a very wrong impression. There are couple of good videos on that topic that
help understand the
problem and the decision to build and history of systemd.
As for the systemd free distro question: One must decide first if it should
be really systemd free (means systemd removed completely) or systemd is not
the init system.
How about "systemd was never installed"? It is still possible, you know.
The first case is what I think can be handled as a
dead horse or
neandertals - you will loose a lot of applications and functionality that
can not be provided without system.
The second approach is in my opinion acceptable if systemd causes problems
as init manager.
I am quite content with the featureset OpenRC provides. So are many other
people. There are very, *very* few pieces of software that unconditionally depend
on systemd and can't have that support disabled at compile time or easily patched
out (Gnome is the only one I'm aware of at this time, and this list is not exactly
full
of Gnome users).
If you like systemd, then by all means use it, but please don't try to push others
into doing so. It's as unwelcome as someone coming to this list to push the current
incarnation of KDE.
E. Liddell
5:53 p.m.
E. Liddell wrote:
If you like systemd, then by all means use it, but
please don't try to
push others into doing so. It's as unwelcome as someone coming to this
list to push the current incarnation of KDE.
I did not say I like it. I simply understand the arguments on both sides and
it is good that debian provides both option for init process (or even
more).
What I want to say is that it is worth trying and you are also correct - the
discussion is not for this list, because TDE has nothing to do with systemd
AFAIK.
regards
20 Oct
20 Oct
3:05 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Advice for distro without systemD
On 10/19/19, deloptes <deloptes(a)gmail.com> wrote:
When you define a problem, you can also find a
solution - simply saying "I
don't like it" is not a problem definition.
I'm not gonna waste time rehashing why I don't want systemD. Went
through something similar when KDE4 came out and was told to get with
the programs and "upgrade". A new version is usually not an upgrade.
I've been using Debian with sysv-init, but only
because systemd was causing
problems and I needed time to learn it. The concept of keeping systemd and
using init was a very good solution. I think I'll keep it on the server,
but for the desktop, I do not see a reason why you should not use systemd.
Yep and other people don't see why we don't use KDE5 or GNOME3 instead
of mate/cinnamon.
I guess you are also not driving a car from the 30ies.
Nope. I have 2 from the 80s though. Would have no problem with a car
that old. I might spent a bit more in gas, but my paid off vehicles
don't have a monthly payment & the insurance is cheaper. Always trade
offs.
Kinda like my almost 15 year old Thinkpad T60p. Does what I need and
has the 4x3 screen that makes it easier for me to get stuff done.
8:05 a.m.
Larry Stotler wrote:
I'm not gonna waste time rehashing why I don't
want systemD. Went
through something similar when KDE4 came out and was told to get with
the programs and "upgrade". A new version is usually not an upgrade.
This is exactly the point. I think the time has come that systemd may be
considered working without issues. And this is exactly what I want to point
out. When you read posts about systemd and the war from 5-6y ago it might
be you get wrong impression. I am not advocating for systemd - in fact as
stated before I still don't use it (in production), but plan to give it a
try when I upgrade to buster next.
8:20 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: Advice for distro without systemD
On 10/20/19, deloptes <deloptes(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This is exactly the point. I think the time has come
that systemd may be
considered working without issues. And this is exactly what I want to point
out. When you read posts about systemd and the war from 5-6y ago it might
be you get wrong impression. I am not advocating for systemd - in fact as
stated before I still don't use it (in production), but plan to give it a
try when I upgrade to buster next.
I was told to give KDE4(insert other software name) a try after it
"matured". By that point I was tired of wasting my time trying to
make it work, especially when KDE3 worked just fine and had for the
years I had been using it.
I was around when systemD first started creeping in. I didn't care
for it and quite frankly the costs vs benefits don't justify using it
IN MY OPINION. Yes, I can install a distro and get it running with
it. That's not the problem. It's when you have a problem that
becomes the issue. With it consuming more & more it's gotten harder
to figure out why it fails and fix it.
A lot of people act like Linus is an ass but 15 years ago when I had
an issue on my Thinkpad 600 I got emails from him trying to sort out
the issue. He didn't send me an "WON'T FIX" because he didn't feel
like taking care of it. Pottering on the other hand......
In order to get a lot of fixes with systemD, you have to install the
latest version. And the latest version has more creep than the last.
It was originally touted as faster boot. My file server gets rebooted
when there's a kernel update - rarely. My laptop gets rebooted rarely
as well.
Linux and Open Source/Free Software is about choice. We CHOOSE what
we want to use. I choose to not use it.
Too many developers waste time reinventing the wheel instead of fixing
the bugs in their code and making it use less resources. A friend
told me once that programmers take advantage of all available
resources. Not everyone has a 32 core system with 256GB RAM. Nor can
everyone afford that. But it's an often forgotten fact. In FOSS,
that's how it works and that's their choice. So, you either deal with
it, fork it, or move on.
In another note I worked on a Win10 system recently. Fixed the
no-boot issue but couldn't get it to take updates for a week. It
would install the update and get to around 80 percent and then roll it
back repeatedly. Ended up being the PCIe wireless card was the issue
& removed it. Worked fine then. Only reason I figured it out was
because I stumbled on a post about a similar issue. Had to bill the
guy extra because of the time involved. How was that fair to him?
Should I bill Micro$oft? Asus? There are the real work problems that
affect people.
9:55 p.m.
Larry Stotler wrote:
I was told to give KDE4(insert other software name) a
try after it
"matured". By that point I was tired of wasting my time trying to
make it work, especially when KDE3 worked just fine and had for the
years I had been using it.
true for me as well. Otherwise we would not be on that list - right?!
I was around when systemD first started creeping in.
I didn't care
for it and quite frankly the costs vs benefits don't justify using it
IN MY OPINION. Yes, I can install a distro and get it running with
it. That's not the problem. It's when you have a problem that
becomes the issue. With it consuming more & more it's gotten harder
to figure out why it fails and fix it.
Well may be next year it will just work :D (jocking), but as mentioned I
tried the company notebook with buster (I have netboot) for testing. I left
systemd deliberately to see how it performs. I have not seen any issue.
Especially after someone revealed that bug in tdm shutting down delay.
On the other hand I use Sailfish with systemd on daily bases as main phone -
no issue at all.
A lot of people act like Linus is an ass but 15 years
ago when I had
an issue on my Thinkpad 600 I got emails from him trying to sort out
the issue. He didn't send me an "WON'T FIX" because he didn't
feel
like taking care of it. Pottering on the other hand......
I do not think so and yes we know the story, but this angel (Pottering ) has
fallen - things are not like 4-5y ago.
In order to get a lot of fixes with systemD, you have
to install the
latest version. And the latest version has more creep than the last.
It was originally touted as faster boot. My file server gets rebooted
when there's a kernel update - rarely. My laptop gets rebooted rarely
as well.
I have the feeling no one wants to give it another try and it is simply not
right.
Linux and Open Source/Free Software is about choice.
We CHOOSE what
we want to use. I choose to not use it.
This is true and good to stay so.
Too many developers waste time reinventing the wheel
instead of fixing
the bugs in their code and making it use less resources. A friend
told me once that programmers take advantage of all available
resources. Not everyone has a 32 core system with 256GB RAM. Nor can
everyone afford that. But it's an often forgotten fact. In FOSS,
that's how it works and that's their choice. So, you either deal with
it, fork it, or move on.
But you see that this development in the past years is counter productive -
by splitting the teams you have less man power to work on things. And yes
the mentality also changed - basically I think the older once do not have
time or motivation and they knew what is a memory address and how a pointer
works.
I have the feeling the newer python or java developer have no idea of this -
so everything gets dumber, larger. And Qt also changed with their concept
of qml ... cause you know ressources are cheap - you don't need that much
binary code any more. The real truth remained hidden in embedded software
and microprocessors ... but who needs this ...
I personally thing Qt has a very good concept. KDE seems to be the prove of
the concept. This is why I decided to stick with TDE.
In another note I worked on a Win10 system recently.
Fixed the
no-boot issue but couldn't get it to take updates for a week. It
would install the update and get to around 80 percent and then roll it
back repeatedly. Ended up being the PCIe wireless card was the issue
& removed it. Worked fine then. Only reason I figured it out was
because I stumbled on a post about a similar issue. Had to bill the
guy extra because of the time involved. How was that fair to him?
Should I bill Micro$oft? Asus? There are the real work problems that
affect people.
Yes, this crap is one single drama ... I think India is behind it - not
consciously of course ... but in the name of the profit that is all they
can deliver. I can not understand how these updates work - must be alien
technology. Installation takes forever, then you have to restart and it
goes on and at the end after may be waiting for a while it rolls back :|
Still from time to time a blue screen after 35y on the company notebook.
If you use windows you must have a 24/7 support line. The company I work for
has one from Indonesia or Malaysia - don't recall exactly. They can solve
Windows problems and also there are rear problems with the upgrades.
You can of course get Linux on the company notebook, but then there is this
office365 you have to use and many things do not work ... so not easy.
In a company I worked before I had a desktop with windows and was working
from the linux notebook via remote desktop because of all this
Mail/office/video conferencing stuff.
A big Drama! Compared to this systemd is peanuts.
regards
21 Oct
21 Oct
10:10 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: Re: Advice for distro without systemD
hi deloptes!
Anno domini 2019 Sun, 20 Oct 23:55:36 +0200
deloptes scripsit:
[...]
I have the feeling no one wants to give it another try and it is simply not
right.
Well, what should another try show? The basic philosophy has not changed and will never
change, so frustration is guaranteed.
Nik
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Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
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19 Oct
19 Oct
8:05 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Advice for distro without systemD
Anno domini 2019 Fri, 18 Oct 23:01:17 -0400
Larry Stotler scripsit:
Hello folks,
Been using TDE on openSUSE for a while(and S.u.S.E since v5.3 *sigh*)
but I think it's time to move to a non systemD infested distro. I'm
not here to debate the merits of it, I've made my decision and I'm
looking for advice from those that run TDE on distros that don't use
systemD.
I have all linux boxes running on devuan beowulf.
There's Devuan(never really been a fan of Debian or uBuntu tho). I'm
just afraid that Devuan won't be able to keep up.
Would love to go back to Slackware, but it seems the lastest version
is 3.5.13ish??
Anyway, if you use a non-systemD distro, please let me know how TDE works on it.
Thanx
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CIA ...
3:29 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Advice for distro without systemD
On 19/10/2019 04:01, Larry Stotler wrote:
Hello folks,
Been using TDE on openSUSE for a while(and S.u.S.E since v5.3 *sigh*)
but I think it's time to move to a non systemD infested distro. I'm
not here to debate the merits of it, I've made my decision and I'm
looking for advice from those that run TDE on distros that don't use
systemD.
There's Devuan(never really been a fan of Debian or uBuntu tho). I'm
just afraid that Devuan won't be able to keep up.
Would love to go back to Slackware, but it seems the lastest version
is 3.5.13ish??
Anyway, if you use a non-systemD distro, please let me know how TDE works on it.
Thanx
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Not wanting to get into any flame wars about systemd, Devuan works well
with TDE and of course, debian is still installable and usable without
systemd.
Mike.
--
6:58 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Advice for distro without systemD
On Friday 18 October 2019 10:01:17 pm Larry Stotler wrote:
Anyway, if you use a non-systemD distro, please let me
know how TDE works
on it.
Hi Larry,
I tried many non-systemd distros at the beginning of this year. I eventually
settled on:
MX Linux
https://mxlinux.org/
MX Linux is a cooperative venture between the antiX and former MEPIS
communities, using the best tools and talents from each distro. It is a
midweight OS designed to combine an elegant and efficient desktop with simple
configuration, high stability, solid performance and medium-sized footprint.
My primary two reasons were:
- Well supported by a large development staff. (30+)
- Extremely large and helpful user community. (forum users ~7,000)
It has been a very good experience. I let Xfce 4.12.3 install by default and
then added TDE by:
MX Linux Trinity Repository Installation Instructions *
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/MX_Linux_Trinity_Repository_Installation_In…
This will give you a list of default apps and tools:
https://mxlinux.org/current-release-features/
Hope that helps,
Michael
* I wrote those, if you find errors please send me an email so I can fix it.
22 Oct
22 Oct
5:13 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Advice for distro without systemD
On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 11:01 PM Larry Stotler <larrystotler(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Would love to go back to Slackware, but it seems the lastest version
is 3.5.13ish??
Anyway, if you use a non-systemD distro, please let me know how TDE works
on it.
I use Trinity on Slackware as well as my Manjaro setup (I use that for
games). In both cases I compile TDE from latest git sources whenever I
think it might need a recompile due to system changes. Just did one in both
distros a few days ago, in fact.
Trinity doesn't care about SystemD, that's back end gyrations. This is
essentially 10 year old software that's still being maintained and it
doesn't have that kind of integration or dependency. Note that distributors
or distribution packagers might do different things for desktop integration
if you install their packages. For example, I tried this on Kubuntu once
from a PPA and found that the desktop integration was stepping on some of
my global desktop config files and affecting Plasma 5 configuration... but
that was there and then and there's none of that nonsense when I compile it)
As for Slackware, at this time you'd really want to download the latest
slackware-current ISO and use that for your install. Slackware 14.2 is
really too old in the guts (though it's still maintained with security
patches, fixes and sometimes new minimum version upgrades to things so
software like Firefox etc. can still build and run)
1652
days inactive
1655
days old
20 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Dave Lers -
deloptes -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
E. Liddell -
Larry Stotler -
Michael -
Michael Howard via trinity-users -
Pisini, John -
Snidely Whiplash -
William Morder via trinity-users