Hi all!
I just upgraded my devuan boxes to beowulf. Most things work as expected, but there are 2 issues that just kill my nerves:
1) I cannot change mouse acceleration any more. TDE settings are ignored, as are any changes I do with "xinput"
2) DPI settings are not correct anymore: I have dpi set to 120 via tde controlcenter. After the upgrade gtk2-applications still use 120 dpi, but TDE ignores the dpi-settings, it uses 96. Now this is quite irritating.
Has somebody else had these issues after upgrading?
Nik
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp composed on 2019-02-10 00:36 (UTC+0100):
I just upgraded my devuan boxes to beowulf. Most things work as expected, but there are 2 issues that just kill my nerves:
- DPI settings are not correct anymore: I have dpi set to 120 via tde controlcenter. After the upgrade gtk2-applications still use 120 dpi, but TDE ignores the dpi-settings, it uses 96. Now this is quite irritating.
Where do you see it report 96?
What does
xrdb -query | grep dpi
report?
What about?
tdecmshell xserver
Same as?
xdpyinfo | egrep 'dimen|ution'
What about:
inxi -Gxx
Anno domini 2019 Sat, 9 Feb 18:49:48 -0500 Felix Miata scripsit:
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp composed on 2019-02-10 00:36 (UTC+0100):
I just upgraded my devuan boxes to beowulf. Most things work as expected, but there are 2 issues that just kill my nerves:
- DPI settings are not correct anymore: I have dpi set to 120 via tde controlcenter. After the upgrade gtk2-applications still use 120 dpi, but TDE ignores the dpi-settings, it uses 96. Now this is quite irritating.
Where do you see it report 96?
Nowhere. I just mesured the ratio from fonts in applications that did not change (e.g. menu in libreoffice) and compare it to fonts in applications that changed (e.g. menu in kmail): Result is that kmail fonts are ~ 20% smaller than before --> ~ 96 dpi.
What does
xrdb -query | grep dpi
report?
Xft.dpi: 120
What about?
tdecmshell xserver
120x120 dpi
Same as?
xdpyinfo | egrep 'dimen|ution'
dimensions: 1400x1050 pixels (296x222 millimeters) resolution: 120x120 dots per inch
What about:
inxi -Gxx
Graphics: Device-1: Intel Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics vendor: Lenovo ThinkPad T61/R61 driver: i915 v: kernel bus ID: 00:02.0 chip ID: 8086:2a02 Display: server: X.Org 1.20.3 driver: intel resolution: 1400x1050~60Hz OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel 965GM v: 2.1 Mesa 18.3.2 direct render: Yes
Nothing about DPI from the last command.
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp composed on 2019-02-10 00:58 (UTC+0100):
Anno domini 2019 Sat, 9 Feb 18:49:48 -0500 Felix Miata composed:
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp composed on 2019-02-10 00:36 (UTC+0100):
I just upgraded my devuan boxes to beowulf. Most things work as expected, but there are 2 issues that just kill my nerves:
- DPI settings are not correct anymore: I have dpi set to 120 via tde controlcenter. After the upgrade gtk2-applications still use 120 dpi, but TDE ignores the dpi-settings, it uses 96. Now this is quite irritating.
Where do you see it report 96?
Nowhere. I just mesured the ratio from fonts in applications that did not change (e.g. menu in libreoffice) and compare it to fonts in applications that changed (e.g. menu in kmail): Result is that kmail fonts are ~ 20% smaller than before --> ~ 96 dpi.
Which Kmail, TDE's, or KDE5's?
Which apps besides Kmail have small fonts? Are any of them using QT5, GTK3 or GTK4?
Do any of these apps allow to choose font family and/or font size directly, rather than inheriting from DE settings? *buntu*fonts and *fonts*buntu* tend to render a physical size or two less than the majority of other families of identical nominal size. DPI typically plays a role in whether or not this happens or for which nominal sizes. http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/Font/fonts-face-samplesM.html among others can be used to notice this. e.g.:
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Fnt/ubuntuAREsmaller120.jpg
Shows Ubuntu Mono is same size as Inconsolata at 12pt, but larger at 10pt, yet it's smaller than most others whether at 10pt or 12pt.
The differences are different at 96 DPI:
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Fnt/ubuntuAREsmaller096.jpg
Note in these images that the only font requested by the page that is not installed is Courier.
Hi Felix!
Anno domini 2019 Sat, 9 Feb 21:52:33 -0500 Felix Miata scripsit:
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp composed on 2019-02-10 00:58 (UTC+0100):
Anno domini 2019 Sat, 9 Feb 18:49:48 -0500 Felix Miata composed:
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp composed on 2019-02-10 00:36 (UTC+0100):
I just upgraded my devuan boxes to beowulf. Most things work as expected, but there are 2 issues that just kill my nerves:
- DPI settings are not correct anymore: I have dpi set to 120 via tde controlcenter. After the upgrade gtk2-applications still use 120 dpi, but TDE ignores the dpi-settings, it uses 96. Now this is quite irritating.
Where do you see it report 96?
Nowhere. I just mesured the ratio from fonts in applications that did not change (e.g. menu in libreoffice) and compare it to fonts in applications that changed (e.g. menu in kmail): Result is that kmail fonts are ~ 20% smaller than before --> ~ 96 dpi.
Which Kmail, TDE's, or KDE5's?
I only have TDE running, so it's TDE kmail (and konqueror, ...) :-)
Which apps besides Kmail have small fonts? Are any of them using QT5, GTK3 or GTK4?
It affects all TDE applications. Firefox is also affected (see below). geany and libreoffice are OK. gimp 2.10 is OK (besides the fact that some genius broke the layers tab).
Do any of these apps allow to choose font family and/or font size directly, rather than inheriting from DE settings? *buntu*fonts and *fonts*buntu* tend to render a physical size or two less than the majority of other families of identical nominal size. DPI typically plays a role in whether or not this happens or for which nominal sizes. http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/Font/fonts-face-samplesM.html among others can be used to notice this. e.g.:
the image you linked shows 120dpi and it is 120dpi on my screen, too (1in is 1 in). That's what it used to look like befor upgrade. Now it says instead of 120 dpi "unknown" and the test-square of 1in is not 2.54mm but 2.12mm or 100dpi (giving some error in my previouse measurement this could be the correct value).
I can adjust firefox to the correct DPI if I set layout.css.devPixelsPerPx=1.22 - but I do not know what that breaks :-)
Shows Ubuntu Mono is same size as Inconsolata at 12pt, but larger at 10pt, yet it's smaller than most others whether at 10pt or 12pt.
The differences are different at 96 DPI:
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Fnt/ubuntuAREsmaller096.jpg
Note in these images that the only font requested by the page that is not installed is Courier.
Nik
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp composed on 2019-02-10 08:42 (UTC+0100):
Anno domini 2019 Sat, 9 Feb 21:52:33 -0500 Felix Miata composed:
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp composed on 2019-02-10 00:58 (UTC+0100):
Anno domini 2019 Sat, 9 Feb 18:49:48 -0500 Felix Miata composed:
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp composed on 2019-02-10 00:36 (UTC+0100):
I just upgraded my devuan boxes to beowulf. Most things work as expected, but there are 2 issues that just kill my nerves:
- DPI settings are not correct anymore: I have dpi set to 120 via tde controlcenter. After the upgrade gtk2-applications still use 120 dpi, but TDE ignores the dpi-settings, it uses 96. Now this is quite irritating.
Where do you see it report 96?
Nowhere. I just mesured the ratio from fonts in applications that did not change (e.g. menu in libreoffice) and compare it to fonts in applications that changed (e.g. menu in kmail): Result is that kmail fonts are ~ 20% smaller than before --> ~ 96 dpi.
I think I'd need to see some contextual screenshots to understand, but from KMail it probably wouldn't tell me much, since I never use it.
Which Kmail, TDE's, or KDE5's?
I only have TDE running, so it's TDE kmail (and konqueror, ...) :-)
That was a confused request that even now I don't understand. :-p
Which apps besides Kmail have small fonts? Are any of them using QT5, GTK3 or GTK4?
It affects all TDE applications. Firefox is also affected (see below). geany and libreoffice are OK. gimp 2.10 is OK (besides the fact that some genius broke the layers tab).
This is backwards from what I expect, though my expectations are limited by lack of familiarity with apps above mentioned and lyx. Most of my installations are lean, so no Gimp or LO. This box has Gimp 2.8 and LO 6.04. LO I use too little to know what to expect. Gimp's main menu bar text matches the OS. In the rest of Gimp, everything is tiny enough to cause headache and backache if used longer than very briefly.
What I expect from TDE apps is QT3 behavior. I rarely use them though, except for Konq, KCalc and the tdecmshell utilities xserver and fonts.
Firefox is my main non-QT yardstick. This is from openSUSE Tumbleweed & TDE: http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Moz/Fonts/monospace201902suse.jpg Note the UI text in 60.5 matches the (GTK2) 17.0 UI text that also matches Konq's and Konsole's. The same cannot be said of the content text however.
This is from TDE 14.1 on Kubuntu 18.04 on same PC using the very same two firefox profiles: http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Moz/Fonts/ff60-gtk3-tinyUI-buntu1804.jpg Note here the mousetype UI in (GTK3) 60.5, much smaller than in Konq, Konsole & Firefox 17.
I tried FF on Buster, but neither ESR52 nor ESR60 will run on it. ESR60 on Stretch & 14.0.6 behaves like Tubutu (GTK3 mousetype).
Do any of these apps allow to choose font family and/or font size directly, rather than inheriting from DE settings? *buntu*fonts and *fonts*buntu* tend to render a physical size or two less than the majority of other families of identical nominal size. DPI typically plays a role in whether or not this happens or for which nominal sizes. http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/Font/fonts-face-samplesM.html among others can be used to notice this. e.g.: http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Fnt/ubuntuAREsmaller120.jpg
the image you linked shows 120dpi and it is 120dpi on my screen, too (1in is 1 in). That's what it used to look like befor upgrade. Now it says instead of 120 dpi "unknown" and the test-square of 1in is not 2.54mm but 2.12mm or 100dpi (giving some error in my previouse measurement this could be the correct value). I can adjust firefox to the correct DPI if I set layout.css.devPixelsPerPx=1.22 - but I do not
know what that breaks :-)
The breakage is too complicated for me to remember in detail. Not all the dumbing down to Chrome level appears in the Firefox UI. Some is in the browser engine, originally Gecko, recently switched to Quantum(?). Some of the Gecko browser code required to make fonts-face-samplesM.html work as it should has been purged. It never got put into Quantum. The notes at the bottom of that URL mention some of what's changed, but more has been lost since.
One recent change comes from anti-fingerprinting policy, which prevents the page from reporting the UA string. I'm not sure when it hit, sometime after current ESR series, but whether it was in before 65 I don't know either.
An older one is web browser specifications some years ago purged the ability to produce even a resemblance of accurate physical sizes on a display screen. The spec usurped the meanings of the physical sizes, including pt, cm, in & pica. Instead of pt meaning point, it means CSS px. IOW, px and pt are exactly the same thing in CSS used for display screens. That means unlike real point sizes, their equivalent px sizes do not vary with display density.
Gecko was the last mainstream browser engine to do the purge. For several years it had a proprietary unit (mozmm) that could be used to create physical sizes, but no longer. So, my page only works close to or in fact as intended with Konq, or older Mozilla products that support mozmm, or really really really old other browsers, among which neither Chrome nor Chromium, but IE6, mostly yes.
The purging of pt as a physical unit doesn't just show up in unexpected page text sizing. It also has affected optional themes, and some internal theming. Mix in a GTK3 problem[1][2] and HiDPI mutations, and you get a good definition of unpredictable.
[1] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=757142 Recent change breaks HiDPI setup based on calculated or forced DPI https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269274 UI text sizes no longer inherited from Linux system [2] https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1022830 GTK3 apps not honoring system-wide DPI settings nor KDE mouse cursor This bug's fix counters the GTK problem upstream created. I've not seen evidence any other distro has offered this solution.
On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 09:22:37 -0500 Felix Miata mrmazda@earthlink.net wrote:
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp composed on 2019-02-10 08:42 (UTC+0100):
It affects all TDE applications. Firefox is also affected (see below). geany and libreoffice are OK. gimp 2.10 is OK (besides the fact that some genius broke the layers tab).
This is backwards from what I expect, though my expectations are limited by lack of familiarity with apps above mentioned and lyx. Most of my installations are lean, so no Gimp or LO. This box has Gimp 2.8 and LO 6.04. LO I use too little to know what to expect. Gimp's main menu bar text matches the OS. In the rest of Gimp, everything is tiny enough to cause headache and backache if used longer than very briefly.
For what it's worth, LibreOffice is GTK3, GIMP is GTK2. Geany can be built with either. Lyx appears to be QT5. So it looks like it's QT that's acting broken. In the case of Lyx/QT5, the problem may be an unsuitable default theme rather than a resolution problem, in which case qt5ct may be able to fix it for you.
E. Liddell
Anno domini 2019 Sun, 10 Feb 10:31:05 -0500 E. Liddell scripsit:
On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 09:22:37 -0500 Felix Miata mrmazda@earthlink.net wrote:
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp composed on 2019-02-10 08:42 (UTC+0100):
It affects all TDE applications. Firefox is also affected (see below). geany and libreoffice are OK. gimp 2.10 is OK (besides the fact that some genius broke the layers tab).
This is backwards from what I expect, though my expectations are limited by lack of familiarity with apps above mentioned and lyx. Most of my installations are lean, so no Gimp or LO. This box has Gimp 2.8 and LO 6.04. LO I use too little to know what to expect. Gimp's main menu bar text matches the OS. In the rest of Gimp, everything is tiny enough to cause headache and backache if used longer than very briefly.
For what it's worth, LibreOffice is GTK3, GIMP is GTK2. Geany can be built with either. Lyx appears to be QT5. So it looks like it's QT that's acting broken. In the case of Lyx/QT5, the problem may be an unsuitable default theme rather than a resolution problem, in which case qt5ct may be able to fix it for you.
E. Liddell
I do not know what to say ... qt5ct fails because an environment variable QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME was not set ... wtf??? Ok, I set export QT_AUTO_SCREEN_SCALE_FACTOR=0 export QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME="qt5ct"
and now lyx works as expected. If you wonder, the firse line is for VLC: without it, VLC has buttons as big as a football. That GUI mess is growing like cancer :-(
Nik
Anno domini 2019 Sun, 10 Feb 09:22:37 -0500 Felix Miata scripsit:
[...] The purging of pt as a physical unit doesn't just show up in unexpected page text sizing. It also has affected optional themes, and some internal theming. Mix in a GTK3 problem[1][2] and HiDPI mutations, and you get a good definition of unpredictable.
[1] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=757142 Recent change breaks HiDPI setup based on calculated or forced DPI https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269274 UI text sizes no longer inherited from Linux system [2] https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1022830 GTK3 apps not honoring system-wide DPI settings nor KDE mouse cursor This bug's fix counters the GTK problem upstream created. I've not seen evidence any other distro has offered this solution.
Hi Felix!
Sounds like Windows font desaster arrived on linux, at last :-(
In the meantime I found a workaround for GTK2 applications (some use way too big fonts): cp ~/.gtkrc-2.0 ~/.unison-gtkrc-2.0 chande the font size there - looks like it overrides dpi settings, then use that config for the applation: GTK2_RC_FILES=~/.unison-gtkrc-2.0 unison-gtk
I think that's what you get when marketing takes over development.
Nik
Solved the part of trackpoint acceleration today: Following https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Mouse_acceleration I was able to slow down that pesky acceleration. The loution is to put this line in ~/.xsessionrc:
( sleep 10s; xinput --set-prop 'TPPS/2 IBM TrackPoint' 'libinput Accel Speed' -0.125 ) &
While this solved my immediate problem it still does not tell why tcontrol settings are ignored :-/
Ni
Anno domini 2019 Sun, 10 Feb 18:07:25 +0100 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp scripsit:
Anno domini 2019 Sun, 10 Feb 09:22:37 -0500 Felix Miata scripsit:
[...] The purging of pt as a physical unit doesn't just show up in unexpected page text sizing. It also has affected optional themes, and some internal theming. Mix in a GTK3 problem[1][2] and HiDPI mutations, and you get a good definition of unpredictable.
[1] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=757142 Recent change breaks HiDPI setup based on calculated or forced DPI https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269274 UI text sizes no longer inherited from Linux system [2] https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1022830 GTK3 apps not honoring system-wide DPI settings nor KDE mouse cursor This bug's fix counters the GTK problem upstream created. I've not seen evidence any other distro has offered this solution.
Hi Felix!
Sounds like Windows font desaster arrived on linux, at last :-(
In the meantime I found a workaround for GTK2 applications (some use way too big fonts): cp ~/.gtkrc-2.0 ~/.unison-gtkrc-2.0 chande the font size there - looks like it overrides dpi settings, then use that config for the applation: GTK2_RC_FILES=~/.unison-gtkrc-2.0 unison-gtk
I think that's what you get when marketing takes over development.
Nik
Anno domini 2019 Sat, 9 Feb 21:52:33 -0500 Felix Miata scripsit:
[...] Which apps besides Kmail have small fonts? Are any of them using QT5, GTK3 or GTK4?
Just found another one: lyx has small fonts, too.
-
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
E. Liddell -
Felix Miata