I love TDE and want to contribute to it but is it worth it? I've been in the devels mailing list for a couple weeks now and there haven't been any new messages.
There are many applications I can't find in TGW like kmilo. The Project RoadMap on the wiki has a warning of being outdated. Is there a reason certain repositories haven't had a non-translation related commit in years?
It seems improvements outside the scope of bug fixes and the migration to CMake are stalled indefinitely due to issues with adding support for Qt4? Why not drop it and try for Qt5/6 instead?
Can the migration to Webkit for HTML rendering be done without Qt4 support?
How hard would it be to make a style plugin for Qt5/6? I currently use gtk-qt-engine-trinity with qt5-gtk2-platformtheme as a workaround but it would be nice to have reliable, native support.
I don't exactly understand how TQT or the TQT Interface works so I'm sorry if these are stupid questions.
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Anno domini 2024 Sun, 30 Jun 22:47:45 -0700 Riley Bell via tde-users scripsit:
I love TDE and want to contribute to it but is it worth it? I've been in the devels mailing list for a couple weeks now and there haven't been any new messages.
"worth" is what you yourself deem it to be worth :)
There are many applications I can't find in TGW like kmilo. The Project RoadMap on the wiki has a warning of being outdated. Is there a reason certain repositories haven't had a non-translation related commit in years?
Most likly they do not needd fixing. If you want functional enhencement, you are welcome to do so.
It seems improvements outside the scope of bug fixes and the migration to CMake are stalled indefinitely due to issues with adding support for Qt4? Why not drop it and try for Qt5/6 instead?
Migration to QT4/5/6/whatever will not happen. So no need to bother with that any more.
Can the migration to Webkit for HTML rendering be done without Qt4 support?
There's nobody with enough time at his hands to make a webkit khtml replacement module. Besides that, the times of "browser mdules in every aplications" (which GTK3 embraces) showed themselfs to be a dead end. Nowadays you just make a web application if you need that kind of thing - and users are capable of using a webbrowser. Well, most users are not capable of using anything but a web browser, but that's a different story :)
How hard would it be to make a style plugin for Qt5/6? I currently use gtk-qt-engine-trinity with qt5-gtk2-platformtheme as a workaround but it would be nice to have reliable, native support.
For what purpose? If iyou want it and are willing to do it, please go on and do so. Speaking for myself: I prefer use as little QT4/5/6+GTK3 as possible - i's always gettng in my way.
I don't exactly understand how TQT or the TQT Interface works so I'm sorry if these are stupid questions.
The most reliable information is in the code. References and docs are here: https://trinitydesktop.org/apidocs.php
Nik
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On Sun June 30 2024 22:47:45 Riley Bell via tde-users wrote:
There are many applications I can't find in TGW like kmilo.
Hi Riley,
I'm not a TDE dev but I have been using TDE since the beginning, and I help out a bit here and there.
If you use TDE with Debian you can "apt-cache search kmilo". In the result is "kmilo-trinity". You can then "apt-cache show kmilo-trinity". In the result is "Source: tdeutils-trinity".
So kmilo is in the tdeutils repository in TGW: https://mirror.git.trinitydesktop.org/gitea/TDE/tdeutils/src/branch/master/k...
--Mike
On Sun, 30 Jun 2024 22:47:45 -0700 Riley Bell via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
I love TDE and want to contribute to it but is it worth it? I've been in the devels mailing list for a couple weeks now and there haven't been any new messages.
The dev list tends to be used mostly for messaging packagers and inquiring about build failures and unusual low-level issues. The amount of traffic there isn't a good gauge for the general health of the project. The Mastodon feed, @tde@floss.social , is probably a better source.
Also, we're getting into summer vacation season—traffic's dropping on other projects right now too.
There are many applications I can't find in TGW like kmilo. The Project RoadMap on the wiki has a warning of being outdated. Is there a reason certain repositories haven't had a non-translation related commit in years?
Because TDE contains so much code, some sections are handled on a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" basis. If no bugs or RFEs have been filed, and everything still builds and runs as expected, it isn't unusual for parts of the code base not to be touched for extended periods.
If a third-party library's API makes breaking changes, then you'll see commits.
It seems improvements outside the scope of bug fixes and the migration to CMake are stalled indefinitely due to issues with adding support for Qt4? Why not drop it and try for Qt5/6 instead?
It was decided that TDE would become upstream for the former QT3 rather than switching to a new widget set, so the QT4 port has been permanently dropped.
Can the migration to Webkit for HTML rendering be done without Qt4 support?
In theory, yes (webkit also has GTK bindings, so webkit-TQT ought to be possible). Improving Konqueror's browsing abilities isn't a major development focus at this time, however. The Web is in constant churn, and there are other, better browsers available.
How hard would it be to make a style plugin for Qt5/6? I currently use gtk-qt-engine-trinity with qt5-gtk2-platformtheme as a workaround but it would be nice to have reliable, native support.
Consistent theming over multiple widget sets has never once worked completely right in any desktop I've tried in the past twenty years. You can have reliability by adjusting each widget set using its own settings files and applications that target them (and tolerate them maybe not looking completely alike), or you can have combined theming that occasionally causes crashes or corrupts something.
E. Liddell
I see. Thanks everyone for answering my questions. There are many minor improvements I'd like to suggest and I'll get to work seeing if I can implement them myself, and maybe squash a few bugs while I'm at it.
On Monday 01 July 2024 05:43:43 am E. Liddell via tde-users wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2024 22:47:45 -0700
Riley Bell via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
I love TDE and want to contribute to it but is it worth it? I've been in the devels mailing list for a couple weeks now and there haven't been any new messages.
The dev list tends to be used mostly for messaging packagers and inquiring about build failures and unusual low-level issues. The amount of traffic there isn't a good gauge for the general health of the project. The Mastodon feed, @tde@floss.social , is probably a better source.
Also, we're getting into summer vacation season—traffic's dropping on other projects right now too.
There are many applications I can't find in TGW like kmilo. The Project RoadMap on the wiki has a warning of being outdated. Is there a reason certain repositories haven't had a non-translation related commit in years?
Because TDE contains so much code, some sections are handled on a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" basis. If no bugs or RFEs have been filed, and everything still builds and runs as expected, it isn't unusual for parts of the code base not to be touched for extended periods.
If a third-party library's API makes breaking changes, then you'll see commits.
It seems improvements outside the scope of bug fixes and the migration to CMake are stalled indefinitely due to issues with adding support for Qt4? Why not drop it and try for Qt5/6 instead?
It was decided that TDE would become upstream for the former QT3 rather than switching to a new widget set, so the QT4 port has been permanently dropped.
Can the migration to Webkit for HTML rendering be done without Qt4 support?
In theory, yes (webkit also has GTK bindings, so webkit-TQT ought to be possible). Improving Konqueror's browsing abilities isn't a major development focus at this time, however. The Web is in constant churn, and there are other, better browsers available.
How hard would it be to make a style plugin for Qt5/6? I currently use gtk-qt-engine-trinity with qt5-gtk2-platformtheme as a workaround but it would be nice to have reliable, native support.
Consistent theming over multiple widget sets has never once worked completely right in any desktop I've tried in the past twenty years. You can have reliability by adjusting each widget set using its own settings files and applications that target them (and tolerate them maybe not looking completely alike), or you can have combined theming that occasionally causes crashes or corrupts something.
E. Liddell ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt op.org
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Hi Riley, I am one of the main devs.
TL;DR: TDE is here to stay and any contributions will help and will be welcomed.
I love TDE and want to contribute to it but is it worth it? I've been in the devels mailing list for a couple weeks now and there haven't been any new messages.
TDE is pretty much alive. We have two regular releases each year and each of them brings some enhancement, bug fixes, new apps and whatever is needed to keep TDE running on modern distros.
The place to be for developers is the TDE Gitea Workspace (TGW): https://mirror.git.trinitydesktop.org/gitea. All code changes go through there and if you "watch" the various repositories, you will have notifications for the various PRs. Alternatively you can see the list of commits at https://www.trinitydesktop.org/patches If you plan to contribute changes, please do so using TGW (user guide at https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/TDE_Gitea_Workspace), I have made you a Contributor so you can create PRs. Don't fork repositories, use branches (see user guide).
There are many applications I can't find in TGW like kmilo. The Project RoadMap on the wiki has a warning of being outdated. Is there a reason certain repositories haven't had a non-translation related commit in years?> It seems improvements outside the scope
of bug fixes and the migration to
CMake are stalled indefinitely due to issues with adding support for Qt4? Why not drop it and try for Qt5/6 instead?
All the code is in TGW, but some applications are part of bigger repositories like tdelibs or tdebase for example. The guidelines for TDE developments are (in order of importance): 1. stability: we don't follow the latest eye-catching trend, we want a system that is stable and doesn't force you to relearn all your key shortcuts with every release 2. keeping pace with time: things in distro change all the time, so we want to make sure TDE can keep running when that happens 3. enhancement/new functionality: when possible we improve things or add new applications, but we try not to alienate users (see Windows 8 and the start menu experience or the KDE 4.0 release experience for how NOT to do it.)
QT4/5/6 is not the point. TDE is build on TQt3, but TQt3 is not Qt3. It has evolved and improved overtime and will continue to do so. In a not so distant future we will even drop the 3 from TQt3, it will simply be TQt.
Can the migration to Webkit for HTML rendering be done without Qt4 support? How hard would it be to make a style plugin for Qt5/6? I currently use gtk-qt-engine-trinity with qt5-gtk2-platformtheme as a workaround but it would be nice to have reliable, native support.
The main restriction to huge development work is manpower. We are a small team. If more people contributes regularly (and so become Core devs), then we can do more. Any small contribution helps, imagine 100 users providing a single contribution each release: it would be 200 contributions per year.
I don't exactly understand how TQT or the TQT Interface works so I'm sorry if these are stupid questions.
TQt interface is a thing of the past and will no longer be part of TDE from R14.2.0 onward. We are currently merging it into TQt3 and will soon be removed from the master branch, although it will stay in the r14.1.x branch for all next R14.1.x releases.
Cheers Michele
On Tuesday 02 July 2024 02:37:09 am Michele Calgaro via tde-users wrote:
Hi Riley, I am one of the main devs.
TL;DR: TDE is here to stay and any contributions will help and will be welcomed.
TDE is pretty much alive. We have two regular releases each year and each of them brings some enhancement, bug fixes, new apps and whatever is needed to keep TDE running on modern distros.
The place to be for developers is the TDE Gitea Workspace (TGW): https://mirror.git.trinitydesktop.org/gitea. All code changes go through there and if you "watch" the various repositories, you will have notifications for the various PRs. Alternatively you can see the list of commits at https://www.trinitydesktop.org/patches If you plan to contribute changes, please do so using TGW (user guide at https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/TDE_Gitea_Workspace), I have made you a Contributor so you can create PRs. Don't fork repositories, use branches (see user guide).
Thank you.
of bug fixes and the migration to
CMake are stalled indefinitely due to issues with adding support for Qt4? Why not drop it and try for Qt5/6 instead?
All the code is in TGW, but some applications are part of bigger repositories like tdelibs or tdebase for example. The guidelines for TDE developments are (in order of importance):
- stability: we don't follow the latest eye-catching trend, we want a
system that is stable and doesn't force you to relearn all your key shortcuts with every release 2. keeping pace with time: things in distro change all the time, so we want to make sure TDE can keep running when that happens 3. enhancement/new functionality: when possible we improve things or add new applications, but we try not to alienate users (see Windows 8 and the start menu experience or the KDE 4.0 release experience for how NOT to do it.)
I agree totally. The beauty of Trinity is that it's a traditional desktop environment that still works with modern applications (to the best of it's ability), stability and reliability over trends and gimmicks.
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On Monday 01 July 2024 12:47:45 AM (-05:00), Riley Bell via tde-users wrote:
I love TDE and want to contribute to it but is it worth it? I've been in
the
devels mailing list for a couple weeks now and there haven't been any
new
messages.
There are many applications I can't find in TGW like kmilo. The Project RoadMap on the wiki has a warning of being outdated. Is there a reason certain repositories haven't had a non-translation related commit in
years?
It seems improvements outside the scope of bug fixes and the migration
to
CMake are stalled indefinitely due to issues with adding support for
Qt4? Why
not drop it and try for Qt5/6 instead?
Can the migration to Webkit for HTML rendering be done without Qt4
support?
How hard would it be to make a style plugin for Qt5/6? I currently use gtk-qt-engine-trinity with qt5-gtk2-platformtheme as a workaround but it
would be nice to have reliable, native support.
I don't exactly understand how TQT or the TQT Interface works so I'm
sorry if
these are stupid questions.
I agree with you Riley. I use TDE personally and the apps in TDE are ANCIENT HISTORY ARTIFACTS.
like KMAIL for instance, I've recently used KMAIL in the latest Plasma desktop and it totally BLOWS TDE-KMAIL 1.9.10 AWAY.
I think some of the CORE apps in TDE should be updated to a later version than 1.9.10
============================================================ THANKS IN ADVANCE!
CHRIS
CHRIS@CWM030.COM
~* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~* *~~1 TB SSD*~~ ~*15.5 GiB of ram*~ ~~* Debian 12 with a minimal XFCE install w/ TDE on top * ~~ ~FYI, TDE is a continuation of KDE 3.x ~ Sent with Vivaldi Mail. Download Vivaldi for free at vivaldi.com
On Tue July 2 2024 08:34:38 CHRIS M via tde-users wrote:
I agree with you Riley. I use TDE personally and the apps in TDE are ANCIENT HISTORY ARTIFACTS.
like KMAIL for instance, I've recently used KMAIL in the latest Plasma desktop and it totally BLOWS TDE-KMAIL 1.9.10 AWAY.
TDE KMail is the absolute tip top number one reason why I love TDE.
Meanwhile you seem to prefer Vivaldi, or maybe KDE KMail.
There are dozens more mail clients, each preferred by some people.
This is good.
--Mike
On Tuesday 02 July 2024 11:00:14 AM (-05:00), Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
TDE KMail is the absolute tip top number one reason why I love TDE.
Meanwhile you seem to prefer Vivaldi, or maybe KDE KMail.
There are dozens more mail clients, each preferred by some people.
This is good.
--Mike
I just liked how many new features were packed into KMAIL that TDE-KMAIL, DOESN'T have.
Like auto archiving folders, like Outlook. " If emails are older than xxx days, then move to > Local Folders > xxx"
Being able to insert an image into an email, vs always having to attach it in TDE-KMAIL.
Stuff like that.
i'm only trying on VIV MAIL, due to VIV being my everyday browser, and I am " experimenting" around with IMAP. I am normally a POP3 kinda person.
============================================================ THANKS IN ADVANCE!
CHRIS
CHRIS@CWM030.COM
~* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~* *~~1 TB SSD*~~ ~*15.5 GiB of ram*~ ~~* Debian 12 with a minimal XFCE install w/ TDE on top * ~~ ~FYI, TDE is a continuation of KDE 3.x ~ ----------------Sent with Vivaldi Mail. Download Vivaldi for free at vivaldi.com
On Tuesday 02 July 2024 11:26:11 AM (-05:00), CHRIS M via tde-users wrote:
Correction:
i'm only trying OUT* VIV MAIL, due to VIV being my everyday browser, and I am " experimenting" around with IMAP. I am normally a POP3 kinda person.
============================================================ THANKS IN ADVANCE!
CHRIS
CHRIS@CWM030.COM
~* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~* *~~1 TB SSD*~~ ~*15.5 GiB of ram*~ ~~* Debian 12 with a minimal XFCE install w/ TDE on top * ~~ ~FYI, TDE is a continuation of KDE 3.x ~
On Tue, 2 Jul 2024, CHRIS M via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 02 July 2024 11:00:14 AM (-05:00), Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
TDE KMail is the absolute tip top number one reason why I love TDE.
Meanwhile you seem to prefer Vivaldi, or maybe KDE KMail. There are dozens more mail clients, each preferred by some people. This is good. --Mike
I just liked how many new features were packed into KMAIL that TDE-KMAIL, DOESN'T have. Like auto archiving folders, like Outlook. " If emails are older than xxx days, then move to > Local Folders > xxx"
Is it possible to use plasma (KDE4/5) kmail within TDE? Does it not integrate well? I do this with okular, gwenview, k3b. TDE is very stable and fast, but I tend to use also apps from other desktops.
Gianluca
Being able to insert an image into an email, vs always having to attach it in TDE-KMAIL. Stuff like that.
i'm only trying on VIV MAIL, due to VIV being my everyday browser, and I am " experimenting" around with IMAP. I am normally a POP3 kinda person.
============================================================ THANKS IN ADVANCE!
CHRIS
CHRIS@CWM030.COM
~* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~* *~~1 TB SSD*~~ ~*15.5 GiB of ram*~ ~~* Debian 12 with a minimal XFCE install w/ TDE on top * ~~ ~FYI, TDE is a continuation of KDE 3.x ~ ----------------Sent with Vivaldi Mail. Download Vivaldi for free at vivaldi.com ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperki...
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://gianluca.today/research/
Department of Bioengineering University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. -----------------------------------------------------
On Tuesday 02 July 2024 11:39:06 AM (-05:00), Gianluca Interlandi via tde-users wrote:
Is it possible to use plasma (KDE4/5) kmail within TDE? Does it not
integrate well? I do this with okular, gwenview, k3b. TDE is very stable and fast, but I tend to use also apps from other desktops.
Gianluca
UGH, I am having to resend this message, because Gianluca didn't remove me from the CC LINE, So I thought that I was replying back to the list, and instead I was replying back to Gianluca privately. >_<
Sadly, NO... I've already tried installing KMAIL from Synaptic. KMAIL won't even open.
============================================================ THANKS IN ADVANCE!
CHRIS
CHRIS@CWM030.COM
~* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~* *~~1 TB SSD*~~ ~*15.5 GiB of ram*~ ~~* Debian 12 with a minimal XFCE install w/ TDE on top * ~~ ~FYI, TDE is a continuation of KDE 3.x ~
On Tue July 2 2024 09:43:53 CHRIS M via tde-users wrote:
Sadly, NO... I've already tried installing KMAIL from Synaptic. KMAIL won't even open.
Works fine for me but you have to edit KDE KMail's menu entry so that it uses the full path to distinguish it from TDE KMail.
(And now I get to uninstall 255 packages grumble grumble.)
--Mike
On Tuesday 02 July 2024 12:16:59 PM (-05:00), Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
Works fine for me but you have to edit KDE KMail's menu entry so that it uses the full path to distinguish it from TDE KMail.
(And now I get to uninstall 255 packages grumble grumble.)
--Mike
I don't know how to do all of that, how to point KMAIL to regular KMAIL installation.
Create a icon on the desktop
right click
properties
then ?????
============================================================ THANKS IN ADVANCE!
CHRIS
CHRIS@CWM030.COM
~* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~* *~~1 TB SSD*~~ ~*15.5 GiB of ram*~ ~~* Debian 12 with a minimal XFCE install w/ TDE on top * ~~ ~FYI, TDE is a continuation of KDE 3.x ~
On Tue July 2 2024 10:25:07 CHRIS M via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 02 July 2024 12:16:59 PM (-05:00), Mike Bird via tde-users
wrote:
Works fine for me but you have to edit KDE KMail's menu entry so that it uses the full path to distinguish it from TDE KMail.
(And now I get to uninstall 255 packages grumble grumble.)
--Mike
I don't know how to do all of that, how to point KMAIL to regular KMAIL installation.
Menu / Settings / Menu Editor (or right click on the T-menu button) and choose the Internet / KMail menu entry to edit.
In the image I have the text cursor positioned exactly at the spot you need to edit in order to prefix "/usr/bin/" to "kmail".
--Mike
On Tuesday 02 July 2024 12:38:22 PM (-05:00), Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
Menu / Settings / Menu Editor (or right click on the T-menu button) and choose the Internet / KMail menu entry to edit.
In the image I have the text cursor positioned exactly at the spot you need to edit in order to prefix "/usr/bin/" to "kmail".
I don't see an image attached to this email.
Chris
On Tue July 2 2024 12:56:27 CHRIS M via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 02 July 2024 12:38:22 PM (-05:00), Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
Menu / Settings / Menu Editor (or right click on the T-menu button) and choose the Internet / KMail menu entry to edit.
In the image I have the text cursor positioned exactly at the spot you need to edit in order to prefix "/usr/bin/" to "kmail".
I don't see an image attached to this email.
The image was in my prior email:
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
Praise God, Trinity is not dead, it's not time for its funeral, on the contrary, it will live a very long time, it works perfectly on Debian. It his the jewel in the Linux world and others systems.
+1000
As a Trinity user for more than twenty years - under Ubuntu -, /no/ other DE beat it!
It works perfectly, it rocks a lot, it's the best desktop environment I ever used.
Configuration is so flexible and easy so you can make it look as you like.
What a jewel!
On 2024-07-02 14:22, ajh-valmer via tde-users wrote:
Praise God, Trinity is not dead, it's not time for its funeral, on the contrary, it will live a very long time, it works perfectly on Debian. It his the jewel in the Linux world and others systems. ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list --users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email tousers-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available athttps://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
midi-pascal via tde-users composed on 2024-07-02 14:40 (UTC-0400):
As a Trinity user for more than twenty years - under Ubuntu -, /no/ other DE beat it!
I suppose this means you were a Kubuntu user until TDE was forked (began existence) from KDE3 ~14 years ago.
Felix Miata via tde-users wrote:
I suppose this means you were a Kubuntu user until TDE was forked (began existence) from KDE3 ~14 years ago.
Most of us used KDE3. I have used KDE2 first, tried Gnome2 around 2001 and went back to KDE2 right before it released KDE3, which was a big improvement to KDE2. Since then (2002) I've been using KDE3. I had some issues with internationalization, which I fixed after I finished my thesis at the university. After KDE4 release (Jan.2008) many of us were so disappointed that Timothy Pearson decided to start the TDE project together with just a handful of other developers and maintainers. The rest of us just followed, because there was no way out of the desktop disaster that was imposed to the users back then (Suddenly KDE4 was not usable and Gnome was ugly and fragile, while KDE3 was left behind). I think one of the reasons was also the attitude of the new KDE4 developers. Especially in the past few years we observe a growing number of people willing and ready to contribute. I think there were about 5-6 contributors around 2011 and now there are 20-30. It is still not enough to make a big progress, but my impression is that things are moving forward much faster. Especially Slavek and Michele deserve a lot of respect for what they have been doing all those years.
BR
On Tue, 2 Jul 2024, deloptes via tde-users wrote:
Felix Miata via tde-users wrote:
I suppose this means you were a Kubuntu user until TDE was forked (began existence) from KDE3 ~14 years ago.
Most of us used KDE3. I have used KDE2 first, tried Gnome2 around 2001 and went back to KDE2 right before it released KDE3, which was a big improvement to KDE2. Since then (2002) I've been using KDE3. I had some issues with internationalization, which I fixed after I finished my thesis at the university.
I love this nostalgic historical e-mails. I used fvwm2 in SuSE (along with CDE on Solaris workstations), then KDE2, then KDE3. When openSUSE switched to KDE4, I kept using KDE3 provided with the openSUSE distribution. But I noticed that more and more features went missing, like kinternet and kpowersave and other issues. Hence, the switch to TDE.
Gianluca
After KDE4 release (Jan.2008) many of us were so disappointed that Timothy Pearson decided to start the TDE project together with just a handful of other developers and maintainers. The rest of us just followed, because there was no way out of the desktop disaster that was imposed to the users back then (Suddenly KDE4 was not usable and Gnome was ugly and fragile, while KDE3 was left behind). I think one of the reasons was also the attitude of the new KDE4 developers. Especially in the past few years we observe a growing number of people willing and ready to contribute. I think there were about 5-6 contributors around 2011 and now there are 20-30. It is still not enough to make a big progress, but my impression is that things are moving forward much faster. Especially Slavek and Michele deserve a lot of respect for what they have been doing all those years.
BR
tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperki...
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://gianluca.today/research/
Department of Bioengineering University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. -----------------------------------------------------
said deloptes via tde-users: | Felix Miata via tde-users wrote: | > I suppose this means you were a Kubuntu user until TDE was forked | > (began existence) from KDE3 ~14 years ago. | | Most of us used KDE3. I have used KDE2 first, tried Gnome2 around 2001 | and went back to KDE2 right before it released KDE3, which was a big | improvement to KDE2. Since then (2002) I've been using KDE3. I had some | issues with internationalization, which I fixed after I finished my | thesis at the university. | After KDE4 release (Jan.2008) many of us were so disappointed that | Timothy Pearson decided to start the TDE project together with just a | handful of other developers and maintainers. The rest of us just | followed, because there was no way out of the desktop disaster that was | imposed to the users back then (Suddenly KDE4 was not usable and Gnome | was ugly and fragile, while KDE3 was left behind). I think one of the | reasons was also the attitude of the new KDE4 developers. | Especially in the past few years we observe a growing number of people | willing and ready to contribute. I think there were about 5-6 | contributors around 2011 and now there are 20-30. It is still not enough | to make a big progress, but my impression is that things are moving | forward much faster. Especially Slavek and Michele deserve a lot of | respect for what they have been doing all those years.
I installed KDE-1.0 the day it was released. Wrote a book about it. (https://www.amazon.com/Practical-KDE-Dennis-Powell/dp/078972216X)
Recompiled it daily, or at least several times a week, for years. The devs got the snotty attitude during the kde-2.x days, but the product was good. KMail was great. It was a pretty replacement for XFMail. It's still great. Occasionally a little cranky, but sorted easily enough.
Like many of us, I stuck with KDE-3.x when KDE-4 was the disaster it was and that KDE has continued to be. The only thing well-maintained is the attitude, now with added big announcements never realized (example: Plasma Bigscreen, announced years ago but still not good for anything.) The current KDE philosophyseems to be making everything as unnecessarily complicated as possible. my favorite example is adding an application to Kicker. in TDE, you drag it to Kicker. The end. In current "Plasma," you have to jump through all kinds of hoops that are not guaranteed to work and that run the risk of destroying the entire panel. I personally do not want to have to back up my system before daring to try to add an application to the launcher.
It is sadlly funny how from time to time someone installs TDE and immediately complains here that it is not something else. If something else worked better for me, I would use something else. But in my experience, TDE is unsurpassed at running non-TDE applications, so if I need some non-TDE app I can run it with no problem with TDE. No problem running current Kdenlive, for instance. This could be a kind of diminished expectation -- I started with DOS-2.1 running PowerMenu. I now have, on tablet and phone, mail and messaging applications in which I had to turn off things like "suggest reply."
Yes, there are other desktops that have more bells and whistles, and if ringing and whistling are what one is after, TDE is probably not for that person. But it is difficult not to get a little cross when we hear "why isn't TDE more like . . ." even as it is a little annoying when newbs arrive shouting about the flavor-of-the-month Linux distribution, which probably won't exist in a year or two.
If TDE stopped being developed, that would be a tragedy, because it would mean that in five years or so I might have to start thinking about a new desktop.
On Tuesday 02 July 2024 03:17:16 PM (-05:00), deloptes via tde-users wrote:
Most of us used KDE3. I have used KDE2 first, tried Gnome2 around 2001
and
went back to KDE2 right before it released KDE3, which was a big improvement to KDE2. Since then (2002) I've been using KDE3. I had some issues with internationalization, which I fixed after I finished my
thesis
at the university. After KDE4 release (Jan.2008) many of us were so disappointed that
Timothy
Pearson decided to start the TDE project together with just a handful of other developers and maintainers. The rest of us just followed, because there was no way out of the desktop disaster that was imposed to the
users
back then (Suddenly KDE4 was not usable and Gnome was ugly and fragile, while KDE3 was left behind). I think one of the reasons was also the attitude of the new KDE4 developers. Especially in the past few years we observe a growing number of people willing and ready to contribute. I think there were about 5-6
contributors
around 2011 and now there are 20-30. It is still not enough to make a
big
progress, but my impression is that things are moving forward much
faster.
Especially Slavek and Michele deserve a lot of respect for what they
have
been doing all those years.
Me:
Tried Kubuntu 8.04 with KDE 3, ( Several Times ) and could NEVER for the life of me figure out how to mount my CD ROM
Then I installed Ubuntu 10.10 with Gnome 2, and LOOOOOOOOOVED IT! I hated that, at that time it was killed off for Gnome 3. But, then the MATE project came along later. LOOOVE it too!
I'd give up and go back to Windows 7 for awhile then repeat just to see whats changed since I last used KDE / Gnome.
CM
On Tuesday 02 July 2024 20:40:32 midi-pascal via tde-users wrote:
+1000 As a Trinity user for more than twenty years - under Ubuntu -, /no/ other DE beat it! It works perfectly, it rocks a lot, it's the best desktop environment I ever used. Configuration is so flexible and easy so you can make it look as you like. What a jewel!
Fantasctic ! I'm not alone, long live to TDE-Trinity ! Without forgetting a very great thank to the team who manages this extraordinary office so well. Now TDE-Trinity has far surpassed KDE, a great feat, an old KDE3 that has become very modern. I was really disappointed when KDE3 became KDE4, and I was not alone.
André
On 2024-07-02 14:22, ajh-valmer via tde-users wrote:
Praise God, Trinity is not dead, it's not time for its funeral, on the contrary, it will live a very long time, it works perfectly on Debian. It his the jewel in the Linux world and others systems.
On Tue July 2 2024 11:22:26 ajh-valmer via tde-users wrote:
Praise God, Trinity is not dead, it's not time for its funeral, on the contrary, it will live a very long time, it works perfectly on Debian. It his the jewel in the Linux world and others systems.
Ah shucks. Looking back at my saved package configs it seems I missed Tim's first TDE 3.5.11 in April 2010. But 3.5.12 came out in October 2010. I started using it December 22nd 2010 and registered for Tim's bugzilla on the 26th. This was of course due to Debian Squeeze 6.0, which became stable in February 2011 and dropped support for KDE3.
Before KDE3 I had used Gnome in the old free Redhat and before that Enlightenment and before that probably text mode in Slackware from 1995 to 1997. Along the way there were brief excursions into Fedora, Ubuntu, and Devuan. Around 1990 I had used Xenix and SunOS for a while and back in the early 80's it was Unix System III.
My favorite years of software development were on various kinds of Lisp machines but my favorite desktop environment is TDE.
TDE KMail is my favorite mail client. Favorite non-TDE tools include Firefox, LibreOffice, GnuCash, and QtCreator.
--Mike
Anno domini 2024 Tue, 2 Jul 13:00:20 -0700 Mike Bird via tde-users scripsit:
On Tue July 2 2024 11:22:26 ajh-valmer via tde-users wrote:
Praise God, Trinity is not dead, it's not time for its funeral, on the contrary, it will live a very long time, it works perfectly on Debian. It his the jewel in the Linux world and others systems.
Ah shucks. Looking back at my saved package configs it seems I missed Tim's first TDE 3.5.11 in April 2010. But 3.5.12 came out in October 2010. I started using it December 22nd 2010 and registered for Tim's bugzilla on the 26th. This was of course due to Debian Squeeze 6.0, which became stable in February 2011 and dropped support for KDE3.
Before KDE3 I had used Gnome in the old free Redhat and before that Enlightenment and before that probably text mode in Slackware from 1995 to 1997. Along the way there were brief excursions into Fedora, Ubuntu, and Devuan. Around 1990 I had used Xenix and SunOS for a while and back in the early 80's it was Unix System III.
My favorite years of software development were on various kinds of Lisp machines but my favorite desktop environment is TDE.
Ah, Lisp machines, never had my hand on those ... I'm still programming in scheme and lisp. Somehow it's a pitty that TQt does not have a lisp FFI.
TDE KMail is my favorite mail client. Favorite non-TDE tools include Firefox, LibreOffice, GnuCash, and QtCreator.
On Tue July 2 2024 13:16:14 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users wrote:
Ah, Lisp machines, never had my hand on those ... I'm still programming in scheme and lisp. Somehow it's a pitty that TQt does not have a lisp FFI.
The windowing system was not dissimilar to TDE or any other modern windowing system except there's little awareness of any filesystem. You're basically editing and compiling in Emacs all the time. Everything you do becomes live instantly. (Reproducible builds were not a thing!) Normally when you turned the machine off it was just suspending and you would later resume in the same virtual image. You only actually booted from a clean image maybe once a year.
--Mike
said Mike Bird via tde-users: | On Tue July 2 2024 13:16:14 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users wrote: | > Ah, Lisp machines, never had my hand on those ... I'm still | > programming in scheme and lisp. Somehow it's a pitty that TQt does not | > have a lisp FFI. | | The windowing system was not dissimilar to TDE or any other modern | windowing system except there's little awareness of any filesystem. | You're basically editing and compiling in Emacs all the time. | Everything you do becomes live instantly. (Reproducible builds were not | a thing!) Normally when you turned the machine off it was just | suspending and you would later resume in the same virtual image. You | only actually booted from a clean image maybe once a year.
One of the most startling (and after one got used to it, delightful) things about Linux in the early days, when the NextSTEP clone was a leading desktop, was that literally everything was configured via text file, plain text, human readable and human understandable. The tradition continued for awhile -- for instance, the KMail address list in the early days was a simple text file: "name" email address.
On Tue, 2 Jul 2024, CHRIS M via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 02 July 2024 11:39:06 AM (-05:00), Gianluca Interlandi via tde-users wrote:
Is it possible to use plasma (KDE4/5) kmail within TDE? Does it not
integrate well? I do this with okular, gwenview, k3b. TDE is very stable and fast, but I tend to use also apps from other desktops.
Gianluca
UGH, I am having to resend this message, because Gianluca didn't remove me from the CC LINE, So I thought that I was replying back to the list, and instead I was replying back to Gianluca privately. >_<
I use "reply to all", then I don't have this problem.
Sadly, NO... I've already tried installing KMAIL from Synaptic. KMAIL won't even open.
I have plasma installed along TDE. Maybe kmail requires the basic plasma installation to work correctly.
Gianluca
============================================================ THANKS IN ADVANCE!
CHRIS
CHRIS@CWM030.COM
~* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~* *~~1 TB SSD*~~ ~*15.5 GiB of ram*~ ~~* Debian 12 with a minimal XFCE install w/ TDE on top * ~~ ~FYI, TDE is a continuation of KDE 3.x ~ ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperki...
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://gianluca.today/research/
Department of Bioengineering University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. -----------------------------------------------------
On Tuesday 02 July 2024 12:17:10 PM (-05:00), Gianluca Interlandi via tde-users wrote:
I use "reply to all", then I don't have this problem.
And that is making a mess for me, instead of the email going to the TDE folder, its putting your email in my inbox.
I always use REPLY, or in some email clients the REPLY TO LIST button.
============================================================ THANKS IN ADVANCE!
CHRIS
CHRIS@CWM030.COM
~* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~* *~~1 TB SSD*~~ ~*15.5 GiB of ram*~ ~~* Debian 12 with a minimal XFCE install w/ TDE on top * ~~ ~FYI, TDE is a continuation of KDE 3.x ~
CHRIS M via tde-users wrote:
And that is making a mess for me, instead of the email going to the TDE folder, its putting your email in my inbox.
Chris, We've been through this already and the fact that you can not configure kmail or have some other issues, does not mean it is not working well or whatever. I have been following your posts and I have an impression that you have not used TDE for too long and compare TDE to other desktops. I have been using it since KDE3 came out ... I guess it was around 2002 ... so ... I am really sorry for your misfortune, but everything in TDE works better than KDE, despite the fact that this or that feature is missing. Particularly, I am heavily using Kontact - the whole PIM (KMail, KOrganizer, KNotes, KNode etc.) for all those years. I sync via Bluetooth my phone and keep my life going without a single issue. KDE - Akonadi or whatever replaced it is a disaster, overbloat to me - the main reason not to use KDE. So spare us the critics and the negative publicity, please. Try to be more balanced based on what you have learned and how you have been treated on the list, I think you are a bit too negative.
BR
On Tuesday 02 July 2024 03:04:39 PM (-05:00), deloptes via tde-users wrote:
Chris, We've been through this already and the fact that you can not configure kmail or have some other issues, does not mean it is not working well or whatever.
No, you misunderstood what I was saying, I was just saying it would be nice to get a little bit of a newer version of software, than software that's frozen in time from 2008. Keep the TDE base at KDE 3.x, but age the software a little bit to like version 2.x, If that's possible?
I have been following your posts and I have an impression that you have
not
used TDE for too long and compare TDE to other desktops.
I've been using TDE full time since May 2024. I've tried it once before back in 2022 and it wasn't for me, but this time it just clicked and I liked TDE. I was a big fan of KDE 3.5 back in the day.
So spare us the critics and the negative publicity, please. Try to be
more
balanced based on what you have learned and how you have been treated on the list, I think you are a bit too negative.
I gave an HONEST answer to Riley, I can't help that you took it the wrong way. That's the whole point is to take everyones input and thoughts on how to keep TDE alive. There's nothing wrong with INPUT, without input, TDE would prob shrivel up and cease to exist.
I just thought it would be nice to have newer version of software, It doesn't have to be the PLASMA VERSION of apps, But at least advance SOME apps to version 2.x +, but keep KDE the 3.5.x base.
Chris Sent with Vivaldi Mail. Download Vivaldi for free at vivaldi.com
On 7/3/24 12:31 PM, CHRIS M via tde-users wrote:
I gave an HONEST answer to Riley, I can't help that you took it the wrong way. That's the whole point is to take everyones input and thoughts on how to keep TDE alive. There's nothing wrong with INPUT, without input, TDE would prob shrivel up and cease to exist.
I've been online for close to 40 years. Before that I managed long distance conversations with dead trees and pens. I worked a few decades as a technical writer. Conversing through the written word is challenging and requires patience. Add different backgrounds, cultures, languages, etc., and these conversations grow more challenging, requiring more patience.
I think the TDE community is sufficiently active to keep TDE alive for a long time. The MATE, Xfce, Cinnamon, and Enlightenment communities are similar. Then there are all of the many window managers that have been around since the 1980s and 1990s. TDE is doing fine, but I agree that meaningful conversation is needed in any relationship.
I just thought it would be nice to have newer version of software, It doesn't have to be the PLASMA VERSION of apps, But at least advance SOME apps to version 2.x +, but keep KDE the 3.5.x base.
With a limited number of developers, the best that mortal users can do is ask questions and file feature requests. I think a big challenge is many TDE users are "traditional desktop" users and do not need or want many so-called modern features. For example, I do not use gmail, social media, online streaming services, company email, etc. I refuse to own a smart phone. What many people might consider missing features are mostly shoulder shrugs for me.
Conversely, I'm a dinosaur and many young people today don't give a hoot what I don't need or want. Many such users seldom use an actual PC. For many people, smart phones are their soma and when they use PCs they expect a similar experience. So grumpy old men like me are irrelevant, but I think many TDE users want a traditional desktop experience and are not much motivated by the "latest and greatest."
I use KDE 5 and TDE, but I spent much time configuring KDE and TDE to act like a traditional desktop with few bells and whistles. Lots of features disabled, removing unnecessary packages, etc. Many people would find my desktop configuration boring. I don't use window managers because of the additional effort required to create a comfortable look and feel. A basic DE avoids those efforts.
My point is wanting new "modern" features is going to happen only if there are motivated developers. A low number of developers and users does not mean TDE is dead, just that TDE is kind of like that proverbial old pair of jeans that just fit and are comfortable.
On Wed, 03 Jul 2024 17:31:32 +0000 CHRIS M via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
On Tuesday 02 July 2024 03:04:39 PM (-05:00), deloptes via tde-users wrote:
Chris, We've been through this already and the fact that you can not configure kmail or have some other issues, does not mean it is not working well or whatever.
No, you misunderstood what I was saying, I was just saying it would be nice to get a little bit of a newer version of software, than software that's frozen in time from 2008.
As I understand it, you have a workflow for email that uses a couple of specific features that the TDE version of kmail doesn't support, and other mailers don't necessarily either, but the KDE5 version of kmail does.
The appropriate thing to do in this case is not complain that TDE kmail is "not modern", but file an RFE to request that filtering emails by age (and anything else you think is missing) be added. Chances are that the only reason a simple feature like that isn't there is that no one's ever asked for it. I didn't realize my email program (claws-mail) had it until this discussion caused me to check it, because it isn't a feature I have a need for.
Not everyone does things the same way, and searching other applications in the same field for things not present in TDE software isn't a good use of the devs' time, especially since some of those things aren't used or are outright detrimental. If you want something that isn't already here, you have to ask.
That phrase "not modern"? It tells people nothing about why a piece of software doesn't work for you. (Hell, often it just means, "the look and feel is different from the latest version of [other OS]" or "it wasn't made for a touchscreen"). "Not modern" isn't something that anyone here can fix, because it's meaningless. It's very good at spreading FUD, however, which is why some people on this list get annoyed by it.
E. Liddell
On Wednesday 03 July 2024 01:57:13 PM (-05:00), E. Liddell via tde-users wrote:
As I understand it, you have a workflow for email that uses a couple of specific features that the TDE version of kmail doesn't support, and
other
mailers don't necessarily either, but the KDE5 version of kmail does.
The appropriate thing to do in this case is not complain that TDE kmail is "not modern", but file an RFE to request that filtering emails by age (and anything else you think is missing) be added. Chances are that the only reason a simple feature like that isn't there is that no one's
ever
asked for it.
Okay, What is a RFE?
And how do I file it?
I am eager to learn.
I've never figured out how to file bug reports. The only way I know to file them is when the OS pops up and says " OOPS, XXXX CRASHED, DO YOU WANT TO SEND A REPORT IN?" And usually I hit YES.
I didn't realize my email program (claws-mail) had it
until this discussion caused me to check it, because it isn't a feature I have a need for.
Claws Mail <3
My top clients would be:
Evolution, then Claws, then KMAIL.
Chris
CHRIS M composed on 2024-07-03 20:00 (UTC):
E. Liddell wrote:
As I understand it, you have a workflow for email that uses a couple of specific features that the TDE version of kmail doesn't support, and other mailers don't necessarily either, but the KDE5 version of kmail does.
The appropriate thing to do in this case is not complain that TDE kmail is "not modern", but file an RFE to request that filtering emails by age (and anything else you think is missing) be added. Chances are that the only reason a simple feature like that isn't there is that no one's ever
Okay, What is a RFE?
And how do I file it?
Request for Enhancement
Same as any other bug report, except for classification.
On Wed, 03 Jul 2024 20:00:08 +0000 CHRIS M via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
On Wednesday 03 July 2024 01:57:13 PM (-05:00), E. Liddell via tde-users wrote:
As I understand it, you have a workflow for email that uses a couple of specific features that the TDE version of kmail doesn't support, and
other
mailers don't necessarily either, but the KDE5 version of kmail does.
The appropriate thing to do in this case is not complain that TDE kmail is "not modern", but file an RFE to request that filtering emails by age (and anything else you think is missing) be added. Chances are that the only reason a simple feature like that isn't there is that no one's
ever
asked for it.
Okay, What is a RFE?
It stands for Request For Enhancement.
And how do I file it?
I am eager to learn.
I've never figured out how to file bug reports. The only way I know to file them is when the OS pops up and says " OOPS, XXXX CRASHED, DO YOU WANT TO SEND A REPORT IN?" And usually I hit YES.
You'll need an account with the TDE gitea server.
https://mirror.git.trinitydesktop.org/gitea/user/login
Once you have that, log in, click on "Issues" at the top left, then "TDE/tdepim" in the list down the left side (since kmail is part of that component), then "New Issue" on the upper right. This will give you a form. Fill it out. Since this is an RFE, it would be nice to prefix the title with "RFE" or "Wishlist" or something, so that the development team knows it's a new feature and not a broken existing one. You can also set the "SL/Wishlist" label, if you like. In "Steps to Reproduce", you can describe where you think your new option should logically be located. The rest should hopefully be straightforward.
Formal bug filing is done in the same way.
I didn't realize my email program (claws-mail) had it
until this discussion caused me to check it, because it isn't a feature I have a need for.
Claws Mail <3
My top clients would be:
Evolution, then Claws, then KMAIL.
Claws does what I need it to do and doesn't intrude otherwise—much like TDE. I tried out three or four different mail clients when I moved from Windows to Linux ~19 years ago, and ended up with sylpheed, then the claws fork.
E. Liddell
On Wednesday 03 July 2024 10:31:32 am CHRIS M via tde-users wrote:
I gave an HONEST answer to Riley, I can't help that you took it the wrong way. That's the whole point is to take everyones input and thoughts on how to keep TDE alive. There's nothing wrong with INPUT, without input, TDE would prob shrivel up and cease to exist.
I just thought it would be nice to have newer version of software, It doesn't have to be the PLASMA VERSION of apps, But at least advance SOME apps to version 2.x +, but keep KDE the 3.5.x base.
You're coming off a little heated man. I mostly wanted to see if Trinity has an active community and what it's priorities are.
On Linux, most desktop applications are just front-ends for a minimal backend designed to do one task well, as long as TDE is being maintained it will always be on a newer version.
Right now the focus seems to be on migrating the build system to CMake and absorbing TQtInterface into TQt, which might not seem that exciting from a user's POV right now, but will make it easier to fix bugs and add new features down the line. Which show signs of life and good decision making.
The changes I intend to make are some bug fixes and improving some minor nitpics here and there (ktorrent doesn't open magnet links, add mpv support to kmplayer, add an argument to akregator so I don't need a shell script to load RSS feeds from my browser). And maybe one day giving Calgaro a nightmare PR to review for a hacked-together webkit monstrosity ;D
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On 7/2/24 11:39 AM, Gianluca Interlandi via tde-users wrote:
Is it possible to use plasma (KDE4/5) kmail within TDE? Does it not integrate well? I do this with okular, gwenview, k3b. TDE is very stable and fast, but I tend to use also apps from other desktops.
I use TDE and KDE 5.
KDE KMail can be used in TDE. Do know that most KDE PIM tools require running akonadi. I believe the KDE KAlarm package is the only KDE PIM tool that allows making akonadi optional.
KDE 5 tools can be used within TDE. There are some nuances caused by the $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP environment variable.
When running TDE the variable will be set to TDE. Launching KDE tools usually results in flat icons. The environment variable supports multiple parameters, which then allows launching KDE tools with the user's preferred icon theme.
But configuring XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP-TDE:KDE then results in non Qt5 software looking weird. Using the qt5ct package helps some but not completely.
Although there never has been a problem running a mixed environment, doing so always has required jumping through hoops.
On Wednesday 03 July 2024 00:42:07 Darrell Anderson via tde-users wrote:
I use TDE and KDE 5. KDE KMail can be used in TDE :
For me : no KDE KMail and TDE together ! (even for an application KDE and TDE together).
It is not recommended to use both, TDE and KDE together, it's either one OR the other (exclusive OR). If we use both, we create blocking incidents on both desktops, and even if we only use KDE-Kmail under TDE-Trinity. If this is the case, we destabilize the TDE applications, crash reports guaranteed, with extinction of windows and obligation to at least rebooting the TDE session, more rarely to have to reboot the computer.
André
On 7/3/24 5:07 AM, ajh-valmer via tde-users wrote:
It is not recommended to use both, TDE and KDE together, it's either one OR the other (exclusive OR). If we use both, we create blocking incidents on both desktops, and even if we only use KDE-Kmail under TDE-Trinity. If this is the case, we destabilize the TDE applications, crash reports guaranteed, with extinction of windows and obligation to at least rebooting the TDE session, more rarely to have to reboot the computer.
Without attention TDE and KDE will collide and conflict. Yet issues can be avoided. For example, right now I am using KDE 5 along with TDE KMail and TDE KAlarm.
Some effort is required to use both KDE and TDE together. One of the cornerstones is configuring the $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP environment variable. Other environment variables need attention too, such as $PATH. Needed are shell script wrappers and environment variables configured correctly.
A notable challenge is TDE being relegated to /opt purgatory rather than being installed in /usr like all other DEs. This expected default location creates tension with environment variables, as seen in the starttde shell script. I suspect that if TDE was installed to /usr and there were no file name conflicts, etc., mixing KDE and TDE apps would still be subject to the nuances of environment variables, themes, etc. Installing to /opt succeeds for most users because most TDE users do not use other DEs.
Through the years I have filed related bug reports. Using both KDE and TDE probably is too much work for many people but that is okay. People should use what they want.
On Wednesday 03 July 2024 05:07:03 AM (-05:00), ajh-valmer via tde-users wrote:
It is not recommended to use both, TDE and KDE together, it's either one OR the other (exclusive OR). If we use both, we create blocking incidents on both desktops, and even if we only use KDE-Kmail under TDE-Trinity. If this is the case, we destabilize the TDE applications, crash reports guaranteed, with extinction of windows and obligation to at least rebooting the TDE session, more rarely to have to reboot the computer.
André
" Blocking Incidents"??? What does that mean?
Chris-- Sent with Vivaldi Mail. Download Vivaldi for free at vivaldi.com
On Wednesday 03 July 2024 19:33:04 CHRIS M via tde-users wrote:
On Wednesday 03 July 2024 05:07:03 AM (-05:00), ajh-valmer wrote:
It is not recommended to use both, TDE and KDE together, it's either one OR the other (exclusive OR). If we use both, we create blocking incidents on both desktops, and even if we only use KDE-Kmail under TDE-Trinity. If this is the case, we destabilize the TDE applications, crash reports guaranteed, with extinction of windows and obligation to at least rebooting the TDE session, more rarely to have to reboot the computer.
" Blocking Incidents"??? What does that mean?
Sorry, may be a bad english, instead : create conflicts, opening of a window to a crash reports and extinction of window... I have them sometimes with Konqueror, not with Kmail (tde).
On Wednesday 03 July 2024 01:27:03 PM (-05:00), ajh-valmer via tde-users wrote:
Sorry, may be a bad english, instead : create conflicts, opening of a window to a crash reports and extinction of window... I have them sometimes with Konqueror, not with Kmail (tde).
Ahh, Crashes.
Chris-- Sent with Vivaldi Mail. Download Vivaldi for free at vivaldi.com
On Tue July 2 2024 09:26:11 CHRIS M via tde-users wrote:
I just liked how many new features were packed into KMAIL that TDE-KMAIL, DOESN'T have.
Like auto archiving folders, like Outlook. " If emails are older than xxx days, then move to > Local Folders > xxx"
Hi Chris,
Please see attached image. What please is TDE missing here?
--Mike
On 7/3/24 2:22 PM, Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
Like auto archiving folders, like Outlook. " If emails are older than xxx days, then move to > Local Folders > xxx"
Please see attached image. What please is TDE missing here?
Good point. That reminded me of my employment days along with using multiple email addresses. I had oodles of such filters in TDE KMail. These days life is a bit more serene and I need only a few filters. :)
On Wednesday 03 July 2024 02:22:18 PM (-05:00), Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
Hi Chris,
Please see attached image. What please is TDE missing here?
--Mike
AHHH, Interesting!
The attachment actually came through this time.
I don't know why the last attachment got scrubbed from your post. Maybe it was too big like mine or something? So the list sent the message, but scrubbed the attachment?
Chris Sent with Vivaldi Mail. Download Vivaldi for free at vivaldi.com
On 7/2/24 10:34 AM, CHRIS M via tde-users wrote:
I agree with you Riley. I use TDE personally and the apps in TDE are ANCIENT HISTORY ARTIFACTS.
I don't see where Riley said anything about KMail.
like KMAIL for instance, I've recently used KMAIL in the latest Plasma desktop and it totally BLOWS TDE-KMAIL 1.9.10 AWAY. I think some of the CORE apps in TDE should be updated to a later version than 1.9.10
Blows away how? KDE KMail forces users to run a database in the background (akonadi). That sole design "pillar" is the primary reason I do not use KDE PIM tools.
On 7/1/24 12:47 AM, Riley Bell via tde-users wrote:
I love TDE and want to contribute to it but is it worth it? I've been in the devels mailing list for a couple weeks now and there haven't been any new messages.
I think historically much of the development discussions were on IRC. Probably mastodon these days. I suspect many development discussions are private (offline).
Visit the commit history page if you want to review development activity:
https://www.trinitydesktop.org/patches/
There are many applications I can't find in TGW like kmilo. The Project RoadMap on the wiki has a warning of being outdated. Is there a reason certain repositories haven't had a non-translation related commit in years?
Applications depend much on who builds the packages for each distro.
It seems improvements outside the scope of bug fixes and the migration to CMake are stalled indefinitely due to issues with adding support for Qt4? Why not drop it and try for Qt5/6 instead?
The support for Qt4 was dropped a long time ago. In the early TDE days there was some thought about providing support for Qt4. That was how the tqtinterface package was born.
Most people familiar with the history of KDE and TDE are familiar with the KDE transition first to Qt4, then 5, and now 6. To their credit, each time the KDE developers do better, but generally with each Qt transition KDE does not become ready for the masses until about version X.4. Considering the number of people involved with TDE, there is no plausible way to migrate to Qt5/6. The amount of coding required is not supportable.
Some people might argue that such a migration would essentially create a KDE clone rather than maintain TDE, a fork of KDE 3.
Even if possible, does Qt5/6 offer anything that TDE needs? My memory is vague but I seem to recall that Qt4 introduced changes that were not compatible or wanted with a fork of KDE 3. For example, run a distro with KDE 4 and notice the observable differences with theming. This trend has continued with developers opting for flat interfaces.
I use both KDE 5 and TDE. While KDE 4/5 improved through the years and these days requires much less RAM, TDE is notably faster and more responsive than KDE.
How hard would it be to make a style plugin for Qt5/6? I currently use gtk-qt-engine-trinity with qt5-gtk2-platformtheme as a workaround but it would be nice to have reliable, native support.
For me, the TDE GTK 2 and 3 engines have been broken for some time. To be fair, GTK support is troublesome in KDE too. Through the years there have been heroic efforts to get GTK software looking better in KDE, but the result is always the same -- sort of looks okay but not really native looking.
Qt5 support in TDE is a bit flaky too. Look through this list where I asked about running non KDE Qt5 software in TDE. The solution more or less is install a package called qt5ct, but even then Qt5 tools do not look "quite right" in TDE. Perhaps better than GTK, but still not quite right.
All that said, I can't code in C++. So on most days I accept what is. I wish I could code C++ because I would be up to my eyeballs in code trying to improve TDE. If you can code then I am certain you will be most welcomed.
On Tuesday 02 July 2024 03:24:07 pm Darrell Anderson via tde-users wrote:
On 7/1/24 12:47 AM, Riley Bell via tde-users wrote:
Even if possible, does Qt5/6 offer anything that TDE needs? My memory is vague but I seem to recall that Qt4 introduced changes that were not compatible or wanted with a fork of KDE 3. For example, run a distro with KDE 4 and notice the observable differences with theming. This trend has continued with developers opting for flat interfaces.
I just got the impression that Qt5 is needed for a Webkit implementation from the RoadMap page on the Wiki. Some embedded HTML pages (like opening tabs in akregator or searching through ktorrent) load unbearably slow and I imagine Webkit can fix that.
For me, the TDE GTK 2 and 3 engines have been broken for some time. To be fair, GTK support is troublesome in KDE too. Through the years there have been heroic efforts to get GTK software looking better in KDE, but the result is always the same -- sort of looks okay but not really native looking.
Qt5 support in TDE is a bit flaky too. Look through this list where I asked about running non KDE Qt5 software in TDE. The solution more or less is install a package called qt5ct, but even then Qt5 tools do not look "quite right" in TDE. Perhaps better than GTK, but still not quite right.
qt5ct is a front-end for qt5-gtk2-platformtheme. There are some wonky styling issues but I think it's tolerable for a unified style. I imagine it would be better using a native qt5 style plugin. File dialogs in GTK2 apps can look native with kgtk-qt3-trinity but has issues with GIMP (which is weird because the code has some hacks specifically for GIMP, probably an older version?) and Palemoon (my preferred browser). As for GTK3 and flatpaks I look forward to the xdg-desktop-portal implementation.
All that said, I can't code in C++. So on most days I accept what is. I wish I could code C++ because I would be up to my eyeballs in code trying to improve TDE. If you can code then I am certain you will be most welcomed.
I haven't coded in a while and prefer C but I've always been a "learn as I go" person - starting with small projects and working my way up to larger goals. I feel motivated to learn something new and in the meantime improve the software I use and love.
Sincerely,
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ajh-valmer -
Chris M -
CHRIS M
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Darrell Anderson -
deloptes -
dep -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
E. Liddell -
Felix Miata -
Gianluca Interlandi -
Michele Calgaro -
midi-pascal -
Mike Bird -
Riley Bell