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@Gene Heskett, please see comments here http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=2563 and let us know if this solves the problem you raised some time ago. Cheers Michele
On Wednesday 13 January 2016 05:51:51 Michele Calgaro wrote:
@Gene Heskett, please see comments here http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=2563
timeout on server when iceweasel launched from a click on the above link.
Started icweasel, copy/pasted the link, and after quite a spell it worked. I assume pearsoncomputing.net is out on a slow copper circuit?
I read down to the bottom and tried ksysv from the menu, but it still needed the real root password. Which I had to enter twice, possibly a typu the first time as roots pw is about 25 chars & the fingers typing them are 81 yo and arthritic. I have been keeping up to date, but I will go make sure tdesudo is installed, and get the version.
Which was not installed, but is now, and KsysV now runs from my password, so that seems to have solved /that/ problem.
Now, go check synaptic from the menu, without the terminal launched synaptic-pkexec wrapper.
And that also works from the menu, with my pw. There may be other gotcha's, but those 2 at least are fixed now.
and let us know if this solves the problem you raised some time ago. Cheers Michele
Looks like it might be all fixed, Michele, thanks a bunch.
But, and I haven't tested it, shouldn't tdesudo be made part of the standard TDE-Trinity install?
Cheers, Gene Heskett
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On 01/13/2016 09:21 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
Looks like it might be all fixed, Michele, thanks a bunch.
That is good, now we just need Kris to check as well if Synaptic is ok for him as well (hope I am not confusing users here)
But, and I haven't tested it, shouldn't tdesudo be made part of the standard TDE-Trinity install?
No, not everyone likes sudo/tdesudo, since having sudo could be a security problem.
Cheers Michele
Dne st 13. ledna 2016 Gene Heskett napsal(a):
On Wednesday 13 January 2016 05:51:51 Michele Calgaro wrote:
@Gene Heskett, please see comments here http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=2563
timeout on server when iceweasel launched from a click on the above link.
Started icweasel, copy/pasted the link, and after quite a spell it worked. I assume pearsoncomputing.net is out on a slow copper circuit?
I believe, this relates to yesterday announce from François:
http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::9852
...this represents synchronization of 3.8 GiB packages. And as we know, line to the primary server has limited bandwidth.
Looks like it might be all fixed, Michele, thanks a bunch.
But, and I haven't tested it, shouldn't tdesudo be made part of the standard TDE-Trinity install?
It is not possible to give tdesudo as a necessary dependency for all. Would it be possible to consider only for the meta package on Ubuntu, where sudo is used by default.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
On Wednesday 13 January 2016 05:24:41 am Slávek Banko wrote:
I believe, this relates to yesterday announce from François:
http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::9852
...this represents synchronization of 3.8 GiB packages. And as we know, line to the primary server has limited bandwidth.
Looks like it might be all fixed, Michele, thanks a bunch.
But, and I haven't tested it, shouldn't tdesudo be made part of the standard TDE-Trinity install?
It is not possible to give tdesudo as a necessary dependency for all. Would it be possible to consider only for the meta package on Ubuntu, where sudo is used by default.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
tdesudo-trinity is a repend of tde-trinity, the full install metapackage. Folks not believing in using sudo known how to start apps as root, or should :-)
tdesudo works fine here with starting root perm apps from the menu.
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On 01/14/2016 04:53 AM, Greg Madden wrote:
It is not possible to give tdesudo as a necessary dependency for all. Would
it be possible to consider only for the meta package on Ubuntu, where sudo is used by default.
I think it would be better to NOT add a dependency. Perhaps we can add a "recommends" for tdesudo to tdebase or something similar. Then it is up to the user to decide whether to install tdesudo or not. Just my 2 cents.
Michele
On Thursday 14 January 2016 14.24:42 Michele Calgaro wrote:
I think it would be better to NOT add a dependency.
I understand the wish to help "basic" users not to forget important elements by setting dependencies, but I get rather unhappy with the dependencies I find.
For example, I never use kaboodle, which is described as a media player, but I can't remove it without removing trinity-multimedia and trinity desktop, or at least parts of them , which is a risk I won't take.
Perhaps we can add a "recommends"
This seems to me the way to go. It's easy to select/ install a package, it's much more complicated to remove an unwanted (and unnecessary) dependancy.
My 2 cents as well...
Thierry
On Thursday 14 of January 2016 14:24:42 Michele Calgaro wrote:
On 01/14/2016 04:53 AM, Greg Madden wrote:
It is not possible to give tdesudo as a necessary dependency for all. Would
it be possible to consider only for the meta package on Ubuntu, where sudo is used by default.
I think it would be better to NOT add a dependency. Perhaps we can add a "recommends" for tdesudo to tdebase or something similar. Then it is up to the user to decide whether to install tdesudo or not. Just my 2 cents.
Michele
tdesudo-trinity is already as 'recommends' for metapackage kubuntu-desktop-trinity == for ordinary Ubuntu users.
On Thursday 14 January 2016 14:01:30 Slávek Banko wrote:
On Thursday 14 of January 2016 14:24:42 Michele Calgaro wrote:
On 01/14/2016 04:53 AM, Greg Madden wrote:
It is not possible to give tdesudo as a necessary dependency for all. Would
it be possible to consider only for the meta package on Ubuntu, where sudo is used by default.
I think it would be better to NOT add a dependency. Perhaps we can add a "recommends" for tdesudo to tdebase or something similar. Then it is up to the user to decide whether to install tdesudo or not. Just my 2 cents.
Michele
tdesudo-trinity is already as 'recommends' for metapackage kubuntu-desktop-trinity == for ordinary Ubuntu users.
How can remove these, to me, undesirable security risks, from 3.5.13.2? I have tried, but they are so tied in with things dependant on them that simply removing is not an option.
The following packages will be REMOVED: sudo{p} sudo-trinity{p} 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 1,919 kB will be freed. The following packages have unmet dependencies: kde-core-trinity : Depends: sudo-trinity but it is not going to be installed. kdelibs4c2a-trinity : Depends: sudo but it is not going to be installed. gksu : Depends: sudo but it is not going to be installed. The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
aptitude then suggests removing 304 packages.
I said "q".
But is it possible to get the wretched things off my and my clients' machines less drastically??
And please, please don't force it on us any more. We don't all like it. Choice, please, choice. Learn to use apt and its offspring and descendants, Gene.
Lisi
Lisi
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016, Lisi Reisz wrote:
How can remove these, to me, undesirable security risks, from 3.5.13.2? I have tried, but they are so tied in with things dependant on them that simply removing is not an option.
# echo '#!/bin/bash' > /usr/bin/sudo
... or <chuckle>
# sudo echo '#!/bin/bash' > /usr/bin/sudo
Then use apt-mark hold or aptitude hold or whatever your package manager employs to freeze packages/modules.
Jonesy
On Thursday 14 of January 2016 16:05:39 Lisi Reisz wrote:
On Thursday 14 January 2016 14:01:30 Slávek Banko wrote:
On Thursday 14 of January 2016 14:24:42 Michele Calgaro wrote:
On 01/14/2016 04:53 AM, Greg Madden wrote:
It is not possible to give tdesudo as a necessary dependency for all. Would
it be possible to consider only for the meta package on Ubuntu, where sudo is used by default.
I think it would be better to NOT add a dependency. Perhaps we can add a "recommends" for tdesudo to tdebase or something similar. Then it is up to the user to decide whether to install tdesudo or not. Just my 2 cents.
Michele
tdesudo-trinity is already as 'recommends' for metapackage kubuntu-desktop-trinity == for ordinary Ubuntu users.
How can remove these, to me, undesirable security risks, from 3.5.13.2? I have tried, but they are so tied in with things dependant on them that simply removing is not an option.
The following packages will be REMOVED: sudo{p} sudo-trinity{p} 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 1,919 kB will be freed. The following packages have unmet dependencies: kde-core-trinity : Depends: sudo-trinity but it is not going to be installed. kdelibs4c2a-trinity : Depends: sudo but it is not going to be installed. gksu : Depends: sudo but it is not going to be installed. The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
aptitude then suggests removing 304 packages.
I said "q".
But is it possible to get the wretched things off my and my clients' machines less drastically??
And please, please don't force it on us any more. We don't all like it. Choice, please, choice. Learn to use apt and its offspring and descendants, Gene.
Lisi
Lisi
Yes, just a few days ago, I also researched why kdelibs / tdelibs have sudo stated as 'depends' == is always installed and can not be uninstalled. And I see no compelling reason for this. Therefore, I propose to remove this dependency. Does anyone have a convincing argument against this?
Slávek Banko wrote:
Yes, just a few days ago, I also researched why kdelibs / tdelibs have sudo stated as 'depends' == is always installed and can not be uninstalled. And I see no compelling reason for this. Therefore, I propose to remove this dependency. Does anyone have a convincing argument against this?
Perhaps it is something related to desktop setup. I recently cleaned up a machine from all desktop stuff (it had gnome and kde4).
Now it suggests to remove the dhcp server and sudo ... this is not what I want ... is there something else one can install to keep sudo and dhcp. Something like server profile you select in the beginning of the OS installation?
When I have a desktop (tde,gnome,kde) sudo stays there.
regards
On Thursday 14 of January 2016 20:50:56 deloptes wrote:
Slávek Banko wrote:
Yes, just a few days ago, I also researched why kdelibs / tdelibs have sudo stated as 'depends' == is always installed and can not be uninstalled. And I see no compelling reason for this. Therefore, I propose to remove this dependency. Does anyone have a convincing argument against this?
Perhaps it is something related to desktop setup. I recently cleaned up a machine from all desktop stuff (it had gnome and kde4).
Now it suggests to remove the dhcp server and sudo ... this is not what I want ... is there something else one can install to keep sudo and dhcp. Something like server profile you select in the beginning of the OS installation?
When I have a desktop (tde,gnome,kde) sudo stays there.
regards
My opinion is that if the user uses sudo, so either it was installed and configured automatically (such as Ubuntu) or have it installed and set himself deliberately. In such cases, tdelibs dependency on sudo is unnecessary.
But if sudo is installed "involuntarily", due to tdelibs dependency, sudo is not configured and is therefore useless. In such case, tdelibs dependency on sudo is unnecessary.
Somehow I miss a case where this dependency is useful :)
Slávek Banko wrote:
My opinion is that if the user uses sudo, so either it was installed and configured automatically (such as Ubuntu) or have it installed and set himself deliberately. In such cases, tdelibs dependency on sudo is unnecessary.
But if sudo is installed "involuntarily", due to tdelibs dependency, sudo is not configured and is therefore useless. In such case, tdelibs dependency on sudo is unnecessary.
Somehow I miss a case where this dependency is useful :)
Yes, I agree - there is no dependency per default and if user takes tdesudo it would pull sudo as dependency, but otherwise I would leave it as it is. As it was already stated this is optional package on purpose.
The question I had in this context was however, why after removing all desktop stuff debian suggests to purge sudo (autoremove), but I guess I'll ask in the debian user list.
regards
On 01/14/2016 01:16 PM, deloptes wrote:
The question I had in this context was however, why after removing all desktop stuff debian suggests to purge sudo (autoremove), but I guess I'll ask in the debian user list.
If you don't want it autoremoved, you can set it to manually installed, and autoremove will then ignore it. Autoremove tags stuff that was installed as a dependency of something else that's no longer present.
Dan Youngquist wrote:
If you don't want it autoremoved, you can set it to manually installed, and autoremove will then ignore it. Autoremove tags stuff that was installed as a dependency of something else that's no longer present.
Does it mean when manually installed it would also upgrade when I call apt-get upgrade?
I'm just wondering why it would see the dhcp server as not dependent on anything?
On Thursday 14 of January 2016 23:09:27 deloptes wrote:
Dan Youngquist wrote:
If you don't want it autoremoved, you can set it to manually installed, and autoremove will then ignore it. Autoremove tags stuff that was installed as a dependency of something else that's no longer present.
Does it mean when manually installed it would also upgrade when I call apt-get upgrade?
I'm just wondering why it would see the dhcp server as not dependent on anything?
The package was originally named dhcp-server, but for some time is named isc-dhcp-server. So the original dhcp-server is just an unnecessary transition package and can be removed. It's your case?
Slávek Banko wrote:
The package was originally named dhcp-server, but for some time is named isc-dhcp-server. So the original dhcp-server is just an unnecessary transition package and can be removed. It's your case?
there is no package dhcp-server anymore it was replaced by isc-dhcp-server couple of years ago. I guess I'll try the "manual install" option.
thanks
On 01/14/2016 02:09 PM, deloptes wrote:
If you don't want it autoremoved, you can set it to manually installed, and autoremove will then ignore it. Autoremove tags stuff that was installed as a dependency of something else that's no longer present.
Does it mean when manually installed it would also upgrade when I call apt-get upgrade?
Yes, things marked manually installed will still be upgraded.
On Thursday 14 of January 2016 22:16:01 deloptes wrote:
Slávek Banko wrote:
My opinion is that if the user uses sudo, so either it was installed and configured automatically (such as Ubuntu) or have it installed and set himself deliberately. In such cases, tdelibs dependency on sudo is unnecessary.
But if sudo is installed "involuntarily", due to tdelibs dependency, sudo is not configured and is therefore useless. In such case, tdelibs dependency on sudo is unnecessary.
Somehow I miss a case where this dependency is useful :)
Yes, I agree - there is no dependency per default and if user takes tdesudo it would pull sudo as dependency, but otherwise I would leave it as it is. As it was already stated this is optional package on purpose.
The problem is that the current state is that the package tdelibs14-trinity on Debian and Ubuntu has *depends* on sudo == sudo is *always installed*, although it is not used and the user *cannot remove* it.
That's why I *do not want* to leave the current state unchanged.
The question I had in this context was however, why after removing all desktop stuff debian suggests to purge sudo (autoremove), but I guess I'll ask in the debian user list.
regards
On Friday 15 January 2016 00:12:20 Slávek Banko wrote:
On Thursday 14 of January 2016 22:16:01 deloptes wrote:
Slávek Banko wrote:
My opinion is that if the user uses sudo, so either it was installed and configured automatically (such as Ubuntu) or have it installed and set himself deliberately. In such cases, tdelibs dependency on sudo is unnecessary.
But if sudo is installed "involuntarily", due to tdelibs dependency, sudo is not configured and is therefore useless. In such case, tdelibs dependency on sudo is unnecessary.
Somehow I miss a case where this dependency is useful :)
Yes, I agree - there is no dependency per default and if user takes tdesudo it would pull sudo as dependency, but otherwise I would leave it as it is. As it was already stated this is optional package on purpose.
The problem is that the current state is that the package tdelibs14-trinity on Debian and Ubuntu has *depends* on sudo == sudo is *always installed*, although it is not used and the user *cannot remove* it.
That's why I *do not want* to leave the current state unchanged.
Thank you Slávek, appreciated.
Lisi
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On 2016/01/15 09:12 AM, Slávek Banko wrote:
On Thursday 14 of January 2016 22:16:01 deloptes wrote:
Slávek Banko wrote:
My opinion is that if the user uses sudo, so either it was installed and configured automatically (such as Ubuntu) or have it installed and set himself deliberately. In such cases, tdelibs dependency on sudo is unnecessary.
But if sudo is installed "involuntarily", due to tdelibs dependency, sudo is not configured and is therefore useless. In such case, tdelibs dependency on sudo is unnecessary.
Somehow I miss a case where this dependency is useful :)
Yes, I agree - there is no dependency per default and if user takes tdesudo it would pull sudo as dependency, but otherwise I would leave it as it is. As it was already stated this is optional package on purpose.
The problem is that the current state is that the package tdelibs14-trinity on Debian and Ubuntu has *depends* on sudo == sudo is *always installed*, although it is not used and the user *cannot remove* it.
That's why I *do not want* to leave the current state unchanged.
The question I had in this context was however, why after removing all desktop stuff debian suggests to purge sudo (autoremove), but I guess I'll ask in the debian user list.
regards
Hi Slavek, I agree with you, dependency on sudo for tdelibs is unnecessary IMO. We should remove it for the reasons already explained in previous emails. Cheers Michele
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Dan Youngquist -
deloptes -
Gene Heskett -
Greg Madden -
Jonesy -
Lisi Reisz -
Michele Calgaro -
Slávek Banko -
Thierry de Coulon