10 Apr
2025
10 Apr
'25
8:52 p.m.
I am creating a build script environment for Slackware. Something in the
tradition of stock and SBo build scripts for those who know what that means.
Debian seems overwhelmingly supported in TDE. To help me learn I want to
create a Debian VM where I can download and study package sources and
build scripts.
One caveat is the Debian distro needs to NOT support systemd because
Slackware does not. I need something reasonably close to how Slackware
functions.
I tried q4os but I did not like and their custom control center thingie
frustrated me and gets in my way. And I want something generic with no
systemd.
Something straightforward. Install the ISO, configure apt sources,
install TDE.
Please recommend. I am guessing a plain Devuan ISO might suffice?
Thank you.
10 Apr
10 Apr
9:01 p.m.
On Thu April 10 2025 09:52:22 Darrell Anderson via tde-users wrote:
Debian seems overwhelmingly supported in TDE. To help
me learn I want to
create a Debian VM where I can download and study package sources and
build scripts.
One caveat is the Debian distro needs to NOT support systemd because
Slackware does not. I need something reasonably close to how Slackware
functions.
I don't use systemd. I have used Ubuntu and Devuan. I currently use
Debian Stable. I wouldn't use Ubuntu without systemd today. I prefer
Debian proper but it's a close call and if you only need a test/study
environment you're probably better off not worrying too much and just
going with Devuan.
9:12 p.m.
On Thursday 10 April 2025 09:52:22 Darrell Anderson via tde-users wrote:
I am creating a build script environment for
Slackware. Something in the
tradition of stock and SBo build scripts for those who know what that
means.
Debian seems overwhelmingly supported in TDE. To help me learn I want to
create a Debian VM where I can download and study package sources and
build scripts.
One caveat is the Debian distro needs to NOT support systemd because
Slackware does not. I need something reasonably close to how Slackware
functions.
I tried q4os but I did not like and their custom control center thingie
frustrated me and gets in my way. And I want something generic with no
systemd.
Something straightforward. Install the ISO, configure apt sources,
install TDE.
Please recommend. I am guessing a plain Devuan ISO might suffice?
Thank you.
You want Devuan, the non-systemd fork of Debian. I myself, Nik, and a few
others on the list, are Devuan users.
There are, by the way, many different flavors of Devuan: for example, Heads,
which is the non-systemd version of Tails; or Exegnulinux, which I think Nik
uses, and a few other distros listed on their site.
I use plain old vanilla Devuan, which, in my view, is more true to the
original Debian than Debian itself. But then, we are each entitled to our own
poison.
Bill
P.S. some links to start
devuan releases - downloads
https://beta.devuan.org/os/devuan-distros
https://beta.devuan.org/get-devuan
https://www.devuan.org/os/releases
https://beta.devuan.org/os/releases
https://mirror.math.princeton.edu/pub/devuan/
https://mirror.math.princeton.edu/pub/devuan/devuan_daedalus/installer-iso/
https://mirror.math.princeton.edu/pub/devuan/devuan_daedalus/desktop-live/
https://mirror.math.princeton.edu/pub/devuan/devuan_daedalus/minimal-live/
From here you can probably find your own way. Hope this helps.
Bill
P.P.S. for your sources.list
I just copied all the links from my own notes, to save you a little time. All
the links are commented out here, so you must uncomment the links you want to
use. I don't use onion links here, as they don't seem to work so well. Also I
prefer the pkgmaster links over devuan.org, as this works better for me.
# deb cdrom:[Devuan GNU/Linux 5.0 (daedalus) amd64
# https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html
# https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=5215
# https://www.devuan.org/os/packages
#deb
http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus main
#deb-src
http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus main
#deb
http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus-updates main
#deb-src
http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus-updates main
#deb
http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus-security main
#deb-src
http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus-security main
##deb
http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus experimental
##deb-src
http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus experimental
#deb
http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus-backports main
#deb-src
http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus-backports main
#deb
http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus-proposed-updates main
#deb-src
http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus-proposed-updates main
##deb
http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
experimental main
##deb-src
http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
experimental main
#deb
tor+http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus main
#deb-src
tor+http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus main
#deb
tor+http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus-updates main
#deb-src
tor+http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus-updates main
#deb
tor+http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus-security main
#deb-src
tor+http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus-security main
##deb
tor+http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus experimental
##deb-src
tor+http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus experimental
#deb
tor+http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus-backports main
#deb-src
tor+http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus-backports main
#deb
tor+http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus-proposed-updates main
#deb-src
tor+http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
daedalus-proposed-updates main
#deb
tor+http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
experimental main
#deb-src
tor+http://devuanauxrkggcowgm2vcs6go3c5pgxdidd5wqjpg7zpfaxkmgspr6id.onion/merged
experimental main
#deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus main
#deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus main
#deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-updates main
#deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-updates main
#deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-security main
#deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-security main
#deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-backports main
#deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-backports main
#deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-proposed-updates main
#deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-proposed-updates main
#deb http://deb.devuan.org/devuan experimental main
#deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/devuan experimental main
#deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged daedalus main
#deb-src http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged daedalus main
#deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged daedalus-security main
#deb-src http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged daedalus-security main
##deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged experimental main
##deb-src http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged experimental main
# daedalus-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
#deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged daedalus-updates main
#deb-src http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged daedalus-updates main
#deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged daedalus-backports main
#deb-src http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged daedalus-backports main
#deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged daedalus backports main
#deb-src http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged daedalus backports main
#deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged daedalus-proposed-updates main
#deb-src http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged daedalus-proposed-updates main
#deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged daedalus contrib
#deb-src http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged daedalus contrib
#deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged daedalus non-free
#deb-src http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged daedalus non-free
11 Apr
11 Apr
7:52 a.m.
On 4/10/25 12:12 PM, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
You want Devuan, the non-systemd fork of Debian. I
myself, Nik, and a few
others on the list, are Devuan users.
Thank you for the information and helpful links. :)
I probably also should have a TDE live ISO. I see a few options in the wiki.
I sometimes wonder if the issues I report are in the way TDE is compiled
in Slackware. Or the way Slackware is built. Something just isn't right
here. I report too many issues. I seem to be paper cutting myself to
death. I get discouraged nobody else seems to find these issues. I feel
like some kind of proverbial annoying squeaky wheel. Conversely, perhaps
I use TDE in a manner outside the normal user bell curve and I get to be
the lucky one to hit all the speed bumps.
A live TDE ISO would allow me a quick way to test something in a
different distro on the same real hardware. Just something that boots to
TDE to test issues -- proof of concept approach.
Thanks for the reply.
9:11 p.m.
On Thursday 10 April 2025 20:52:05 Darrell Anderson via tde-users wrote:
On 4/10/25 12:12 PM, William Morder via tde-users
wrote:
Yeah, you know ... I tried Slackware, way back when, and if I were not running
Devuan or another Debian-type OS, then I would probably move on to Slackware,
which seems more in the direction I would move ... except, Slackware is just
a little too much bother for me.
I don't work in the field. I use my machines to do other things in life. When
I can live somewhere that I have the space, then I would probably have, once
again, a room dedicated just to my machines, where I could have a test board,
and various boxes in different stages of building or disrepair, because I do
like to tinker with them, and I like building Frankensteins out of found
junk. But not at the moment; I have other, more pressing needs.
Also, in my own opinion, the Trinity ISOs leave much to be desired. I tried
installing from some of them, 'Buntus and I think some others. (I have most
of my stuff packed away in storage.) Like I said, once I landed on Debian,
that was good, but I didn't like the changes to systemd, and the internal
chaos and controversies among the devs. Maybe Devuan is just as bad, and I
just haven't heard about it yet? And maybe Devuan will go the same way as
Debian, then I'll have to find yet another OS. But for now, I am content with
Devuan.
If you somehow manage to get TDE working with Slackware, I would definitely be
interested in that, and will keep following your posts. If you create a disc,
live or installation images, I will also gladly give them a test drive. Nik
created some discs with TDE and Devuan bundled together, but he uses a flavor
of Devuan that is unfamiliar to me, and I never could get it working right.
There might be a few others out there.
If you are already comfortable running Slackware, then I would say that Devuan
will be like a walk in the park for you.
Good luck!
Bill
You want Devuan, the non-systemd fork of Debian.
I myself, Nik, and a few
others on the list, are Devuan users.
Thank you for the information and helpful links. :)
I probably also should have a TDE live ISO. I see a few options in the
wiki.
I sometimes wonder if the issues I report are in the way TDE is compiled
in Slackware. Or the way Slackware is built. Something just isn't right
here. I report too many issues. I seem to be paper cutting myself to
death. I get discouraged nobody else seems to find these issues. I feel
like some kind of proverbial annoying squeaky wheel. Conversely, perhaps
I use TDE in a manner outside the normal user bell curve and I get to be
the lucky one to hit all the speed bumps.
A live TDE ISO would allow me a quick way to test something in a
different distro on the same real hardware. Just something that boots to
TDE to test issues -- proof of concept approach.
Thanks for the reply.
12 Apr
12 Apr
1:01 a.m.
On 4/11/25 12:11 PM, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Yeah, you know ... I tried Slackware, way back when,
and if I were not running
Devuan or another Debian-type OS, then I would probably move on to Slackware,
which seems more in the direction I would move ... except, Slackware is just
a little too much bother for me.
I don't work in the field. I use my machines to do other things in life. When
I can live somewhere that I have the space, then I would probably have, once
again, a room dedicated just to my machines, where I could have a test board,
and various boxes in different stages of building or disrepair, because I do
like to tinker with them, and I like building Frankensteins out of found
junk. But not at the moment; I have other, more pressing needs.
Also, in my own opinion, the Trinity ISOs leave much to be desired. I tried
installing from some of them, 'Buntus and I think some others. (I have most
of my stuff packed away in storage.) Like I said, once I landed on Debian,
that was good, but I didn't like the changes to systemd, and the internal
chaos and controversies among the devs. Maybe Devuan is just as bad, and I
just haven't heard about it yet? And maybe Devuan will go the same way as
Debian, then I'll have to find yet another OS. But for now, I am content with
Devuan.
If you somehow manage to get TDE working with Slackware, I would definitely be
interested in that, and will keep following your posts. If you create a disc,
live or installation images, I will also gladly give them a test drive. Nik
created some discs with TDE and Devuan bundled together, but he uses a flavor
of Devuan that is unfamiliar to me, and I never could get it working right.
There might be a few others out there.
If you are already comfortable running Slackware, then I would say that Devuan
will be like a walk in the park for you.
Thanks for chatting out loud with me. :)
Not that I can't change, but I've been on Slackware for 25 years or so.
At one time I supported Debian systems as an admin, but the move to
systemd left me cold. There are certain things I like to do with my
computers and systemd does not let me do them. I could be naive and
ignorant about those systemd blockers, but Slackware stays out of my way
and I do what I want. If there is one thing I want in an operating
system is to stay out of my way.
I could adapt to Devuan or some other non systemd distro that is well
supported by TDE. But I'm an old guy. While old dogs can learn new
tricks, old dogs always ask, "Why should I bother?"
The problem is not that TDE can't compile and run on Slackware. I am
doing that fine. The problem is the many paper cut issues I keep running
into. I post here and nobody sees the same thing. So is the problem
PEBKAC? Slackware? An oversight in compiling the package? Something else?
I can't ignore that TDE development is mostly Debian/Ubuntu oriented and
everybody else are outliers. When the TDE project began I was heavily
involved and seemed like about every other day I was posting issues with
compiling that Debian/Ubuntu users never thought about. We fixed the
issues, no complaints about that. Only that without a large involvement
of people using other distros everybody outside of Debian/Ubuntu is
fighting the proverbial Sisyphean uphill battle.
I'm not trying to sound bitter. I am frustrated, that's all. My aging
brain doesn't fire like 15 years ago when TDE began. I do a lot to keep
my mind working, but aging slowly wins this deterioration game. Usually
I solve problems but the thinking process now takes me three times
longer. Or more.
I am not discounting that Slackware is designed differently from what
Debian/Ubuntu TDE users expect. That is not really a problem. The
challenge is getting answers to help resolve the differences. And most
Debian/Ubuntu folks don't know the answers and shrug.
Part of my frustration is finding paper cuts and then discovering I
filed bug reports 15 years ago. Discouraging.
I am working on my own build script environment for Slackware. Takes
time though. I don't really have interest or the skills to create a live
ISO or anything like that. There is one person in the Slackware
community who makes robust ISOs, but TDE is not one of the desktop
choices. Likely with enough grunting I could massage that image with
TDE, but that is far down the road and is something younger whiz kids
should tackle.
So I guess I keep plugging away, keep asking questions, and keep filing
bug reports and feature requests. Not much else I can do. :)
1:29 a.m.
сб, 12 апр. 2025 г., 00:02 Darrell Anderson via tde-users <
users(a)trinitydesktop.org>gt;:
On 4/11/25 12:11 PM, William Morder via tde-users
wrote:
As another Slackware user I thank you for that. Thing is, I recently run
into unability to use those root-passwords asking windows (in kcontrol's
"Administrator mode" for example) but was completely unsure was it my own
misconfiguration, or real bug. While Slackware does not have systemd , it
still uses polkit, consolekit, PAM .... they make simple tasks harder, but
hopefully harder tasks possible!
For now I dance between old Slackware live media I did for myself (not TDE,
just kde 3.5.10 + many many patches, including ones from earlier TDE
releases) and NetBSD install and chase some other bugs in my unusual
systems.
For example I updated Slackware between 14.2 and 15.0 to some state where
it had glibc 2.33 and gcc 11.2.0 yet this config bite my x264 build to
death, it seems. I reported bug only to discover gcc 5.5.0 and nasm 2.14.02
from AlienBOB were building x264 just fine. x264 uses -O3 by default so
probably sensitive to compiler's bugs.
____________________________________________________
Yeah, you know ... I tried Slackware, way back
when, and if I were not
running
Devuan or another Debian-type OS, then I would
probably move on to
Slackware,
which seems more in the direction I would move
... except, Slackware is
just
a little too much bother for me.
I don't work in the field. I use my machines to do other things in life.
When
I can live somewhere that I have the space, then
I would probably have,
once
again, a room dedicated just to my machines,
where I could have a test
board,
and various boxes in different stages of building
or disrepair, because
I do
like to tinker with them, and I like building
Frankensteins out of found
junk. But not at the moment; I have other, more pressing needs.
Also, in my own opinion, the Trinity ISOs leave much to be desired. I
tried
installing from some of them, 'Buntus and I
think some others. (I have
most
of my stuff packed away in storage.) Like I said,
once I landed on
Debian,
that was good, but I didn't like the changes
to systemd, and the internal
chaos and controversies among the devs. Maybe Devuan is just as bad, and
I
just haven't heard about it yet? And maybe
Devuan will go the same way as
Debian, then I'll have to find yet another OS. But for now, I am content
with
Devuan.
If you somehow manage to get TDE working with Slackware, I would
definitely be
interested in that, and will keep following your
posts. If you create a
disc,
live or installation images, I will also gladly
give them a test drive.
Nik
created some discs with TDE and Devuan bundled
together, but he uses a
flavor
of Devuan that is unfamiliar to me, and I never
could get it working
right.
There might be a few others out there.
If you are already comfortable running Slackware, then I would say that
Devuan
will be like a walk in the park for you.
Thanks for chatting out loud with me. :)
Not that I can't change, but I've been on Slackware for 25 years or so.
At one time I supported Debian systems as an admin, but the move to
systemd left me cold. There are certain things I like to do with my
computers and systemd does not let me do them. I could be naive and
ignorant about those systemd blockers, but Slackware stays out of my way
and I do what I want. If there is one thing I want in an operating
system is to stay out of my way.
I could adapt to Devuan or some other non systemd distro that is well
supported by TDE. But I'm an old guy. While old dogs can learn new
tricks, old dogs always ask, "Why should I bother?"
The problem is not that TDE can't compile and run on Slackware. I am
doing that fine. The problem is the many paper cut issues I keep running
into. I post here and nobody sees the same thing. So is the problem
PEBKAC? Slackware? An oversight in compiling the package? Something else?
I can't ignore that TDE development is mostly Debian/Ubuntu oriented and
everybody else are outliers. When the TDE project began I was heavily
involved and seemed like about every other day I was posting issues with
compiling that Debian/Ubuntu users never thought about. We fixed the
issues, no complaints about that. Only that without a large involvement
of people using other distros everybody outside of Debian/Ubuntu is
fighting the proverbial Sisyphean uphill battle.
I'm not trying to sound bitter. I am frustrated, that's all. My aging
brain doesn't fire like 15 years ago when TDE began. I do a lot to keep
my mind working, but aging slowly wins this deterioration game. Usually
I solve problems but the thinking process now takes me three times
longer. Or more.
I am not discounting that Slackware is designed differently from what
Debian/Ubuntu TDE users expect. That is not really a problem. The
challenge is getting answers to help resolve the differences. And most
Debian/Ubuntu folks don't know the answers and shrug.
Part of my frustration is finding paper cuts and then discovering I
filed bug reports 15 years ago. Discouraging.
I am working on my own build script environment for Slackware. Takes
time though. I don't really have interest or the skills to create a live
ISO or anything like that. There is one person in the Slackware
community who makes robust ISOs, but TDE is not one of the desktop
choices. Likely with enough grunting I could massage that image with
TDE, but that is far down the road and is something younger whiz kids
should tackle.
So I guess I keep plugging away, keep asking questions, and keep filing
bug reports and feature requests. Not much else I can do. :)
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1:48 a.m.
On Friday 11 April 2025 14:01:10 Darrell Anderson via tde-users wrote:
I could adapt to Devuan or some other non systemd distro that is well
supported by TDE. But I'm an old guy. While old dogs can learn new
tricks, old dogs always ask, "Why should I bother?"
I am pretty old myself, dude, 67 years as of this past February. There are a
few others who are older, but I think I'm probably counted among the elders.
And let's not forget Gene, who is still chugging away in his 90s.
But yeah, I dislike changing just for the sake of change. I like the comfort
of using the same old things until they wear out; the same with my machines.
Novelty for novelty's sake gets old really fast.
I am working on my own build script environment for Slackware. Takes
time though. I don't really have interest or the skills to create a live
ISO or anything like that. There is one person in the Slackware
community who makes robust ISOs, but TDE is not one of the desktop
choices. Likely with enough grunting I could massage that image with
TDE, but that is far down the road and is something younger whiz kids
should tackle.
Again, that sounds like a good option, to use one of those images to get
started, put TDE on that. But then, I gave up on Slackware years ago, once I
found Devuan, so I don't appreciate the problems involved.
I do have a couple of repair discs that are based on Slackware (Slacko comes
to mind), but like yourself, I am already comfortable with where I am, no
need to explore further.
So I guess I keep plugging away, keep asking
questions, and keep filing
bug reports and feature requests. Not much else I can do. :)
Maybe put out a call especially to Slackware users, here on the TDE mailing
list, but also search the Slackware forums (I assume that there are such) to
find some other TDE users, or at least some people who might be willing to
help.
I seem to recall that there were some Slackware users here on the Trinity
list, and that there used to be some (probably old) Slackware ISOs with TDE.
Maybe they are archived somewhere?
Bill
2:51 a.m.
On 4/11/25 4:48 PM, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I am pretty old myself, dude, 67 years as of this past
February. There are a
few others who are older, but I think I'm probably counted among the elders.
And let's not forget Gene, who is still chugging away in his 90s.
I got you beat. I guess that places me in the elders group. :)
Maybe put out a call especially to Slackware users,
here on the TDE mailing
list, but also search the Slackware forums (I assume that there are such) to
find some other TDE users, or at least some people who might be willing to
help.
I seem to recall that there were some Slackware users here on the Trinity
list, and that there used to be some (probably old) Slackware ISOs with TDE.
Maybe they are archived somewhere?
Well, sadly many Slackware users tend to be like many Arch users --
doggone smart and knowledgeable but often elitist. Argue about any and
all minutia for months on end. The old newsgroup from years ago was not
a friendly place for new Slackers. The official forum is similar. Maybe
I'm the oddball that I don't embrace that kind of attitude, but I gave
up on the forum. Even one of the lead developers stopped participating
in the forum because of the general environment.
There was some discussion in the forum about TDE and possible
development, but the thread fell silent.
I am aware of some Slackware users here in the lists. Hopefully over
time I can get them to come out of the shadows and we can make some TDE
progress together.
I think my problem of late is pushing too hard. Exhausted. For weeks I
have been hammering away hard at TDE trying to break from KDE (which
overall is a fine DE with its own paper cut issues). I think I burned
out and became my own enemy. Maybe I should stay away from problem
solving for a few days. :)
3:04 a.m.
I can't ignore that TDE development is mostly
Debian/Ubuntu oriented and
everybody else are outliers.
I understand the frustration and this is not to minimize your efforts to
improve TDE on Slackware. I have been using TDE on openSUSE Leap 15.x and
it has been working pretty fine. But openSUSE also uses the mainstream
stuff like systemd. Who knows how things may change (hopefully not in a
negative way) with Leap 16.x. Isn't openSUSE (former SuSE) derived from
Slackware?
Gianluca
On Fri, 11 Apr 2025, Darrell Anderson via tde-users wrote:
On 4/11/25 12:11 PM, William Morder via tde-users
wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------
Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca(a)u.washington.edu
+1 (206) 685 4435
http://gianluca.today/research/
Department of Bioengineering
University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A.
-----------------------------------------------------
Yeah, you know ... I tried Slackware, way back
when, and if I were not
running
Devuan or another Debian-type OS, then I would probably move on to
Slackware,
which seems more in the direction I would move ... except, Slackware is
just
a little too much bother for me.
I don't work in the field. I use my machines to do other things in life.
When
I can live somewhere that I have the space, then I would probably have,
once
again, a room dedicated just to my machines, where I could have a test
board,
and various boxes in different stages of building or disrepair, because I
do
like to tinker with them, and I like building Frankensteins out of found
junk. But not at the moment; I have other, more pressing needs.
Also, in my own opinion, the Trinity ISOs leave much to be desired. I tried
installing from some of them, 'Buntus and I think some others. (I have most
of my stuff packed away in storage.) Like I said, once I landed on Debian,
that was good, but I didn't like the changes to systemd, and the internal
chaos and controversies among the devs. Maybe Devuan is just as bad, and I
just haven't heard about it yet? And maybe Devuan will go the same way as
Debian, then I'll have to find yet another OS. But for now, I am content
with
Devuan.
If you somehow manage to get TDE working with Slackware, I would definitely
be
interested in that, and will keep following your posts. If you create a
disc,
live or installation images, I will also gladly give them a test drive. Nik
created some discs with TDE and Devuan bundled together, but he uses a
flavor
of Devuan that is unfamiliar to me, and I never could get it working right.
There might be a few others out there.
If you are already comfortable running Slackware, then I would say that
Devuan
will be like a walk in the park for you.
Thanks for chatting out loud with me. :)
Not that I can't change, but I've been on Slackware for 25 years or so. At
one time I supported Debian systems as an admin, but the move to systemd left
me cold. There are certain things I like to do with my computers and systemd
does not let me do them. I could be naive and ignorant about those systemd
blockers, but Slackware stays out of my way and I do what I want. If there is
one thing I want in an operating system is to stay out of my way.
I could adapt to Devuan or some other non systemd distro that is well
supported by TDE. But I'm an old guy. While old dogs can learn new tricks,
old dogs always ask, "Why should I bother?"
The problem is not that TDE can't compile and run on Slackware. I am doing
that fine. The problem is the many paper cut issues I keep running into. I
post here and nobody sees the same thing. So is the problem PEBKAC?
Slackware? An oversight in compiling the package? Something else?
I can't ignore that TDE development is mostly Debian/Ubuntu oriented and
everybody else are outliers. When the TDE project began I was heavily
involved and seemed like about every other day I was posting issues with
compiling that Debian/Ubuntu users never thought about. We fixed the issues,
no complaints about that. Only that without a large involvement of people
using other distros everybody outside of Debian/Ubuntu is fighting the
proverbial Sisyphean uphill battle.
I'm not trying to sound bitter. I am frustrated, that's all. My aging brain
doesn't fire like 15 years ago when TDE began. I do a lot to keep my mind
working, but aging slowly wins this deterioration game. Usually I solve
problems but the thinking process now takes me three times longer. Or more.
I am not discounting that Slackware is designed differently from what
Debian/Ubuntu TDE users expect. That is not really a problem. The challenge
is getting answers to help resolve the differences. And most Debian/Ubuntu
folks don't know the answers and shrug.
Part of my frustration is finding paper cuts and then discovering I filed bug
reports 15 years ago. Discouraging.
I am working on my own build script environment for Slackware. Takes time
though. I don't really have interest or the skills to create a live ISO or
anything like that. There is one person in the Slackware community who makes
robust ISOs, but TDE is not one of the desktop choices. Likely with enough
grunting I could massage that image with TDE, but that is far down the road
and is something younger whiz kids should tackle.
So I guess I keep plugging away, keep asking questions, and keep filing bug
reports and feature requests. Not much else I can do. :)
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3:21 a.m.
New subject: Slackware tree (was: Debian distro)
Gianluca Interlandi composed on 2025-04-11 16:04 (UTC-0700):
Isn't openSUSE (former SuSE) derived from >
Slackware?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions#/media/File:SlackwareFamilyTree1210.svg>
Seems so. :)
--
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata (born 1951)
3:54 a.m.
On 4/11/25 6:04 PM, Gianluca Interlandi via tde-users wrote:
I understand the frustration and this is not to
minimize your efforts to
improve TDE on Slackware. I have been using TDE on openSUSE Leap 15.x
and it has been working pretty fine. But openSUSE also uses the
mainstream stuff like systemd. Who knows how things may change
(hopefully not in a negative way) with Leap 16.x. Isn't openSUSE (former
SuSE) derived from Slackware?
Historically, yes, back in the 1990s. But the design of Suse changed to
RPMs soon thereafter. Any relationship these days to Slackware is only
an historical footnote.
Slackware uses txz tarballs for packages (originally tgz) and has its
own set of package management tools. Slackware design has changed little
since inception. Booting the install floppy disks from the early
versions look similar to the latest official release.
A common foundation doesn't mean Slackware hasn't evolved and kept pace
though.
18 Apr
18 Apr
7:13 p.m.
I created a Debian (not Devuan) TDE live iso [1] using kiwi-ng [2] for both i686 an
x86_64.
Just an example, maybe you can take something.
Hope this helps.
Massi
[1] https://github.com/mbugni/tde-remix
[2] https://osinside.github.io/kiwi/
1
days inactive
9
days old
12 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
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Andrew Randrianasulu -
Darrell Anderson -
Felix Miata -
Gianluca Interlandi -
massi.ergosum＠gmail.com -
Mike Bird -
William Morder