Dear all,
May be off topic. I am trying to understand why Debian (especially stable) has the reputation as being more conservative than other distributions. If I look at distrowatch (for example comparing to openSUSE and Fedora):
Kernel LibreOffice Release date
Bookworm 6.1.27 7.4.5 2023-06-10 Trixie 6.6.15 24.2.0 2023-06-11
Leap 15.5 5.14.21 7.4.3.2 2023-06-07 Tumbleweed 6.7.9 24.2.1 2024-03-17
Fedora 6.5.6 7.6.2 2023-11-07
I don't know much about the meaning of kernel versions, but I know that major versions are often developed in parallel. Is 5.14.21 newer than 6.1.27? Judging alone from the kernel version numbers (and other packages), it looks like Leap would be the most conservative while Debian Testing (Trixie) almost as up-to-date (concerning newer Linux packages) as Tumbleweed and ahead of Fedora (released later).
Thanks,
Gianluca
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. -----------------------------------------------------
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On Sunday 17 March 2024, Gianluca Interlandi via tde-users was heard to say:
I am trying to understand why Debian (especially stable) has the reputation as being more conservative than other distributions.
It's a reputation which has been earned over time.
There have been several times where Debian Stable has been maintained for years waiting on the next release. Thus "backports" and "volatile" and other efforts to try to keep Stable usable as other distributions seemed to race ahead.
So while that reputation is not always accurate at a given moment, the Debian developers do put a lot of effort into making sure if you run Stable it is truly stable. That any updates don't break anything.
I ran Debian Sid (Unstable) for a decade. I found the variety of issues that came up to be stimulating, but any time I've helped someone else use Debian I always use Stable.
As a list-relevant example, when Debian changed to KDE4, I stopped upgrading until TDE came out so that KDE3 would not be over-written. As long as everything keeps working, really, why update at all?
Curt-
- -- You may my glories and my state dispose, But not my griefs; still am I king of those. --- William Shakespeare, "Richard II"
Gianluca Interlandi composed on 2024-03-17 18:51 (UTC-0700):
May be off topic. I am trying to understand why Debian (especially stable) has the reputation as being more conservative than other distributions. If I look at distrowatch (for example comparing to openSUSE and Fedora):
Kernel LibreOffice Release date
Bookworm 6.1.27 7.4.5 2023-06-10 Trixie 6.6.15 24.2.0 2023-06-11
Leap 15.5 5.14.21 7.4.3.2 2023-06-07 Tumbleweed 6.7.9 24.2.1 2024-03-17
Fedora 6.5.6 7.6.2 2023-11-07
I don't know much about the meaning of kernel versions, but I know that major versions are often developed in parallel. Is 5.14.21 newer than 6.1.27? Judging alone from the kernel version numbers (and other packages), it looks like Leap would be the most conservative while Debian Testing (Trixie) almost as up-to-date (concerning newer Linux packages) as Tumbleweed and ahead of Fedora (released later).
The kernel version in Leap has no relevance for purposes of comparison to other distros' kernels. Its 5.14 is purely nominal, loaded with hardware support backports and security patches. 15.6 is due for release in 9 or so weeks, currently in beta testing with a 6.4 kernel, while current is 6.8.1. Fedora doesn't stick with its release kernel. F39 and F38 are both currently on 6.7.9 or so, same as Tumbleweed, which also offers 6.6.21 currently.
Among distros you listed, only Bookworm and Leap can truly be considered "stable" releases. TW is a rolling release, which by definition isn't stable, though unlike other rolling releases, it has a continuous QA process that severely limits the ability of serious problems to sneak out into the wild, and it comes standard with BRFTS and convenient snapshot rollbacks enabled. Fedora OTOH, has a well deserved bleeding edge reputation, as its policy of routinely upgrading kernels between releases attests.
Bookworm does have a newer kernel available for those who actually need newer than its release version.
On 3/17/24 6:51 PM, Gianluca Interlandi via tde-users wrote:
I don't know much about the meaning of kernel versions
kernel.org's FAQ explains that version numbers are carefully calculated by a very specific process:
"Does the major version number (4.x vs 5.x) mean anything?
"No. The major version number is incremented when the number after the dot starts looking "too big." There is literally no other reason."
On Sun, 17 Mar 2024 20:39:19 -0700 Dan Youngquist via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
On 3/17/24 6:51 PM, Gianluca Interlandi via tde-users wrote:
I don't know much about the meaning of kernel versions
kernel.org's FAQ explains that version numbers are carefully calculated by a very specific process:
"Does the major version number (4.x vs 5.x) mean anything?
"No. The major version number is incremented when the number after the dot starts looking "too big." There is literally no other reason."
One quirk to keep in mind is that some kernel versions are semi-randomly blessed by the kernel devs to "stable" status, which means that they continue receiving bug fixes and occasionally more even after kernels with later major+minor versions have become obsolete. Recent stable kernels include 5.10, 5.15, 6.1, and 6.6.
This means that 5.15.148 is a more recent release than 6.0.1, even though it doesn't look like it should be.
E. Liddell
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Curt Howland -
Dan Youngquist -
E. Liddell -
Felix Miata -
Gianluca Interlandi