4 Mar
2022
4 Mar
'22
1:01 a.m.
Update on those previous threads, for what it's worth.
After pondering my options (upgrade or downgrade, try another DE, start from
scratch, etc.), I decided that I would give this thing one last try.
And here, I did not do anything different, so far as I can tell. During my
futzing and fiddling phase, I changed the repos to PSB and PTB, but this
didn't seem to help, as Kmail would always crash, and it didn't solve the
problem with browsers not starting, nor did it get Open Office working.
So I decided to give it one last try, and went through adding packages only a
few at a time, downloading them all from standard repositories for Devuan
Chimaera and TDE (no PSB or PTB).
My usual practice is the download in batches, according to categories, if you
will. I keep lists of those packages and dependencies that have worked in the
past. Where there are problems or conflicts, I make a note, edit out those
rejects, etc. Most of you probably have some similar habits, I suppose, but
this is mine, and I've been doing it like this since 2006, across PC Linux,
Kubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04x, Debian 8 or 9, and finally Devuan starting with
Jessie. I've copied and saved my home folder across 3 desktops (plus a few
test machines built out of junk), and at least 5 laptops. There may be a few
other machines that I now forget. But anyway, so this isn't my first rodeo.
What I do works for me; or at least, it always has done.
After adding these packages only a few at a time, suddenly everything works
again. The only thing I can see that is different is that these are slightly
newer versions of the stable builds. I have not yet added qt5ct (which will
allow me to use my TDE colors and themes on non-TDE programs). There are
several threads on this already; so I will leave it at that.
My browsers work again like usual, everything is back. So that's all good,
right? Except, what bothers me is that I can't track down the cause of those
problems. I can only think maybe it was due to some corrupt packages, or
something like that, which makes me wonder how and why they would have got
damaged. It could be that qt5ct and/or its dependencies are causing some
conflict.
On my previous installations, when I ran the echo command to enable qt5ct
changes, I got error messages that said it was misconfigured as gtk2. Yet
that is what this web page advises:
https://askubuntu.com/questions/706528/qt-apps-stopped-inheriting-gtk-theme…
https://web.archive.org/web/20201111174652/https://askubuntu.com/questions/…
Then you run this command:
sudo sh -c "echo 'export QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=gtk2' >>
/etc/environment"
and reboot, and it always worked (at least, when I was running Devuan Beowulf
on my desktop). The error message in qt5ct said that it ought to be something
else, I think it was qt5 or maybe gtk5 (is that a thing?). So I tried
modifying the command to:
sudo sh -c "echo 'export QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=qt5ct' >>
/etc/environment"
but this did nothing. I hesitate to mess with this any more, since my system
is stable again.
Anyway ... so once more, I stand at the door, almost there, but can't get in.
Now I am back to the same problem that irked me before; namely, either to get
Open Office running, or to get Libre Office running and to change the color
scheme of the GUI interface to something that doesn't cause me severe pain
and discomfort (from looking at large patches white screen). I am wondering
if I ought to try css, as I believe I still have E. Liddell's scripts
somewhere (and his old emails with the attachments). Maybe I can use that to
get my Libre Office GUI interface to use colors that are not so hard on my
eyes. (I am not joking here. I get watery eyes, and eventually a migraine,
after staring at a white screen for more than about 5 minutes.)
Apologies for length, but I was trying to recount the various factors that may
or not be relevant. I expect it will get trimmed in the responses.
Any observations or suggestions or advice are appreciated.
Bill
4 Mar
4 Mar
2:48 a.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances [offtopic]
On Thursday 03 March 2022 07:01:09 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Now I am back to the same problem that irked me
before; namely, either to
get Open Office running, or to get Libre Office running and to change the
color scheme of the GUI interface to something that doesn't cause me severe
pain and discomfort (from looking at large patches white screen). I am
wondering if I ought to try css, as I believe I still have E. Liddell's
scripts somewhere (and his old emails with the attachments). Maybe I can
use that to get my Libre Office GUI interface to use colors that are not so
hard on my eyes. (I am not joking here. I get watery eyes, and eventually a
migraine, after staring at a white screen for more than about 5 minutes.)
Hi Bill,
Either find and install any dark GTK theme or use LO's manual color scheme
selector.
https://www.debugpoint.com/2020/01/how-to-enable-dark-mode-libreoffice/
https://help.libreoffice.org/6.1/en-US/text/shared/optionen/01012000.html?D…
https://github.com/RaitaroH/LibreOffice-BreezeDark
There's plenty more search results.
Also see comment in:
https://notsonoblednd.blogspot.com/2012/02/making-libreoffice-behave-in-dar…
"Anonymous September 5, 2013 at 7:08 AM
even simpler one:
tools > options > libreoffice > accessibility
uncheck "automatically detect high-contrast mode of operating system"
after that, LO will actually use the colours you chose... and even your icon
set (when that option is checked it will revert to high-contrast no matter
what.)"
4:50 a.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances [offtopic]
On Thursday 03 March 2022 18:48:44 Michael wrote:
Thanks, I will give these a try. We'll see what happens.
Bill
to get Libre
Office running and to change the
color scheme of the GUI interface to something that doesn't cause me
severe pain and discomfort (from looking at large patches white screen).
Hi Bill,
Either find and install any dark GTK theme or use LO's manual color scheme
selector.
https://www.debugpoint.com/2020/01/how-to-enable-dark-mode-libreoffice/
https://help.libreoffice.org/6.1/en-US/text/shared/optionen/01012000.html?D
bPAR=SHARED https://github.com/RaitaroH/LibreOffice-BreezeDark
There's plenty more search results.
Also see comment in:
https://notsonoblednd.blogspot.com/2012/02/making-libreoffice-behave-in-dar
k-kde.html "Anonymous September 5, 2013 at 7:08 AM
even simpler one:
tools > options > libreoffice > accessibility
uncheck "automatically detect high-contrast mode of operating system"
after that, LO will actually use the colours you chose... and even your
icon set (when that option is checked it will revert to high-contrast no
matter what.)" 
7:26 a.m.
On Thu, Mar 03, 2022 at 05:01:09PM -0800, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Now I am back to the same problem that irked me
before; namely, either to get
Open Office running,
How have you tried installing it?
What happens when you launch it?
or to get Libre Office running and to change the color
scheme of the GUI interface to something that doesn't cause me severe pain
and discomfort (from looking at large patches white screen).
Did you try using the supported LibreOffice themes?
(I am not joking here. I get watery eyes, and
eventually a migraine,
after staring at a white screen for more than about 5 minutes.)
Have you tried turning down the brightness?
Or installing one of those anti-glare filters?
--
Steve
5 Mar
5 Mar
3:06 a.m.
On Thursday 03 March 2022 23:26:26 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
I downloaded the tar.gz of several of the most recent versions, going back to
the one that worked on my desktop (then running Devuan Beowulf). When I tried
downloading from the OO repositories, I got some weird files unlike ever
before seen. In /var/cache/apt/archives/ the packages had some extension (as
I recall) saying FAILED or some such.
But I had previously used the debs that were packed inside a tar.gz, so I
tried those (going back to version 4.17), and nothing ever really worked.
Already tried that, but doesn't deal adequately with those glaringly bright
borders.
to get Open
Office running,
How have you tried installing it?
What happens when you launch it?
They would install, and I could even get OO to launch, see the splash screen,
then it immediately crashed.
Did you try using the supported LibreOffice themes?
Yes, but they don't really do it for me. The borders of the GUI itself
(surrounding my actual page) are still uncomfortably bright next to the black
background of the page. I studied those how-to wikis and web pages, got the
breeze-dark icons and theme, but never managed to get LibreOffice to use
anything darker than what is displayed in my sample screenshots.
(I am not
joking here. I get watery eyes, and eventually a migraine,
after staring at a white screen for more than about 5 minutes.)
Have you tried turning down the brightness?
Or installing one of those anti-glare filters?
I might, but now that's one more thing to buy, when really all I need to is
change that GUI, and it seems there must be a way to hack it.
I've attached some screenshots for comparison:
sample 1 is my current Libre Office, so you can see the borders. Just that
much white screen kills my eyes pretty fast. I don't have any screenshots of
Open Office at present. (Maybe I posted something on the Trinity page?
haven't checked but I don't think so.)
sample 2 is my Trinity-TDE colors, which is what I would most prefer to use.
It could be that I am getting old and set in my ways, but I don't think that
there is any way of regaining my youth and less sensitive eyes. (That's
partly hereditary, though, as my mother was the same; wore dark glasses
everywhere after about age 45, even indoors, like a jazz musician.) As for
myself, I practically invented dark mode for all my machines, long before
there was such a thing. Back when I still ran the rotten Apple and Windoze
(before 2006), I was doing that. My eyes have only got worse since then.
sample 3 is a web page as displayed by Icecat. I *believe* that those are from
another color scheme, using the theme that I created during my hate-hate with
KDE5 krap. That would be my second choice. The fonts are teeny-tiny, but at
least the colors are glaringly bright.
For the time being, I am mostly doing some layout of pages, so I go through
and create a pdf, then switch screens to kpdf, and when I make some change, I
go back to Libre Office for a few minutes. That isn't too hard on my eyes.
But once I get into something where I actually have to write, instead of just
revising and doing layout, it means I will be stuck on the Libre Office GUI
for much longer periods, and that will not work. I keep trying, and it just
ain't happening.
I am sticking with work that I can actually do now (switching between kpdf and
Libre Office screens), and meanwhile researching how to get it to look like
either my TDE theme or the KDE5 theme. Seems like I ought to be able at least
to get it to look like KDE5, using css or something. That trick using qt4ct
worked wonders in the past, but does nothing for me now.
Thanks for your patience. For me, this is literally a big headache.
Bill
3:10 a.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances - screenshots
SORRY - did everything except to add the attachments ...
On Thursday 03 March 2022 23:26:26 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
I downloaded the tar.gz of several of the most recent versions, going back to
the one that worked on my desktop (then running Devuan Beowulf). When I tried
downloading from the OO repositories, I got some weird files unlike ever
before seen. In /var/cache/apt/archives/ the packages had some extension (as
I recall) saying FAILED or some such.
But I had previously used the debs that were packed inside a tar.gz, so I
tried those (going back to version 4.17), and nothing ever really worked.
Already tried that, but doesn't deal adequately with those glaringly bright
borders.
to get Open
Office running,
How have you tried installing it?
What happens when you launch it?
They would install, and I could even get OO to launch, see the splash screen,
then it immediately crashed.
Did you try using the supported LibreOffice themes?
Yes, but they don't really do it for me. The borders of the GUI itself
(surrounding my actual page) are still uncomfortably bright next to the black
background of the page. I studied those how-to wikis and web pages, got the
breeze-dark icons and theme, but never managed to get LibreOffice to use
anything darker than what is displayed in my sample screenshots.
(I am not
joking here. I get watery eyes, and eventually a migraine,
after staring at a white screen for more than about 5 minutes.)
Have you tried turning down the brightness?
Or installing one of those anti-glare filters?
I might, but now that's one more thing to buy, when really all I need to is
change that GUI, and it seems there must be a way to hack it.
I've attached some screenshots for comparison:
sample 1 is my current Libre Office, so you can see the borders. Just that
much white screen kills my eyes pretty fast. I don't have any screenshots of
Open Office at present. (Maybe I posted something on the Trinity page?
haven't checked but I don't think so.)
sample 2 is my Trinity-TDE colors, which is what I would most prefer to use.
It could be that I am getting old and set in my ways, but I don't think that
there is any way of regaining my youth and less sensitive eyes. (That's
partly hereditary, though, as my mother was the same; wore dark glasses
everywhere after about age 45, even indoors, like a jazz musician.) As for
myself, I practically invented dark mode for all my machines, long before
there was such a thing. Back when I still ran the rotten Apple and Windoze
(before 2006), I was doing that. My eyes have only got worse since then.
sample 3 is a web page as displayed by Icecat. I *believe* that those are from
another color scheme, using the theme that I created during my hate-hate with
KDE5 krap. That would be my second choice. The fonts are teeny-tiny, but at
least the colors are glaringly bright.
For the time being, I am mostly doing some layout of pages, so I go through
and create a pdf, then switch screens to kpdf, and when I make some change, I
go back to Libre Office for a few minutes. That isn't too hard on my eyes.
But once I get into something where I actually have to write, instead of just
revising and doing layout, it means I will be stuck on the Libre Office GUI
for much longer periods, and that will not work. I keep trying, and it just
ain't happening.
I am sticking with work that I can actually do now (switching between kpdf and
Libre Office screens), and meanwhile researching how to get it to look like
either my TDE theme or the KDE5 theme. Seems like I ought to be able at least
to get it to look like KDE5, using css or something. That trick using qt4ct
worked wonders in the past, but does nothing for me now.
Thanks for your patience. For me, this is literally a big headache.
Bill
8:25 a.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances - screenshots
Hi Bill!
How did you manage to get kpdf show the pdfs inverted?
This is what I have managed so far:
- dark colorscheme for TDE + usable scrollbars
- usable scrollbars for GTK2 + GTK3
- almost identical fonts for menues in TDE and GTK
What does not work:
- firefox scrollbar width changes according to the clouds in Norway.
- GTK colorscheme does not match TDE, which is to be expected
- libreoffice is always black on white, inverted.
OO uses GTK2, so you need to install gtk2 themes and set the desided theme with
lxappearence. I thenk there was an environment variable something like e.g.
GTK_THEME=Adwaita:dark gedit
to get "gedit" use dark theme. If I recall correctly from previouse versions of
libreoffice it needed libreoffice-gtk2 to work (if it did at all) - and I remember some
versions didn't give a s***t, so probably OO is no different.
Nik
Anno domini 2022 Fri, 4 Mar 19:10:43 -0800
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
SORRY - did everything except to add the attachments
...
On Thursday 03 March 2022 23:26:26 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
I downloaded the tar.gz of several of the most recent versions, going back to
the one that worked on my desktop (then running Devuan Beowulf). When I tried
downloading from the OO repositories, I got some weird files unlike ever
before seen. In /var/cache/apt/archives/ the packages had some extension (as
I recall) saying FAILED or some such.
But I had previously used the debs that were packed inside a tar.gz, so I
tried those (going back to version 4.17), and nothing ever really worked.
Already tried that, but doesn't deal adequately with those glaringly bright
borders.
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
to get
Open Office running,
How have you tried installing it?
What happens when you launch it?
They would install, and I could even get OO to launch, see the splash screen,
then it immediately crashed.
Did you try using the supported LibreOffice
themes?
Yes, but they don't really do it for me. The borders of the GUI itself
(surrounding my actual page) are still uncomfortably bright next to the black
background of the page. I studied those how-to wikis and web pages, got the
breeze-dark icons and theme, but never managed to get LibreOffice to use
anything darker than what is displayed in my sample screenshots.
(I am not
joking here. I get watery eyes, and eventually a migraine,
after staring at a white screen for more than about 5 minutes.)
Have you tried turning down the brightness?
Or installing one of those anti-glare filters?
I might, but now that's one more thing to buy, when really all I need to is
change that GUI, and it seems there must be a way to hack it.
I've attached some screenshots for comparison:
sample 1 is my current Libre Office, so you can see the borders. Just that
much white screen kills my eyes pretty fast. I don't have any screenshots of
Open Office at present. (Maybe I posted something on the Trinity page?
haven't checked but I don't think so.)
sample 2 is my Trinity-TDE colors, which is what I would most prefer to use.
It could be that I am getting old and set in my ways, but I don't think that
there is any way of regaining my youth and less sensitive eyes. (That's
partly hereditary, though, as my mother was the same; wore dark glasses
everywhere after about age 45, even indoors, like a jazz musician.) As for
myself, I practically invented dark mode for all my machines, long before
there was such a thing. Back when I still ran the rotten Apple and Windoze
(before 2006), I was doing that. My eyes have only got worse since then.
sample 3 is a web page as displayed by Icecat. I *believe* that those are from
another color scheme, using the theme that I created during my hate-hate with
KDE5 krap. That would be my second choice. The fonts are teeny-tiny, but at
least the colors are glaringly bright.
For the time being, I am mostly doing some layout of pages, so I go through
and create a pdf, then switch screens to kpdf, and when I make some change, I
go back to Libre Office for a few minutes. That isn't too hard on my eyes.
But once I get into something where I actually have to write, instead of just
revising and doing layout, it means I will be stuck on the Libre Office GUI
for much longer periods, and that will not work. I keep trying, and it just
ain't happening.
I am sticking with work that I can actually do now (switching between kpdf and
Libre Office screens), and meanwhile researching how to get it to look like
either my TDE theme or the KDE5 theme. Seems like I ought to be able at least
to get it to look like KDE5, using css or something. That trick using qt4ct
worked wonders in the past, but does nothing for me now.
Thanks for your patience. For me, this is literally a big headache.
Bill
8:26 a.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances - screenshots
oops, I forgot the screenshot, too :)
Hi Bill!
How did you manage to get kpdf show the pdfs inverted?
This is what I have managed so far:
- dark colorscheme for TDE + usable scrollbars
- usable scrollbars for GTK2 + GTK3
- almost identical fonts for menues in TDE and GTK
What does not work:
- firefox scrollbar width changes according to the clouds in Norway.
- GTK colorscheme does not match TDE, which is to be expected
- libreoffice is always black on white, inverted.
OO uses GTK2, so you need to install gtk2 themes and set the desided theme with
lxappearence. I thenk there was an environment variable something like e.g.
GTK_THEME=Adwaita:dark gedit
to get "gedit" use dark theme. If I recall correctly from previouse versions of
libreoffice it needed libreoffice-gtk2 to work (if it did at all) - and I remember some
versions didn't give a s***t, so probably OO is no different.
Nik
Anno domini 2022 Fri, 4 Mar 19:10:43 -0800
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
SORRY - did everything except to add the attachments
...
On Thursday 03 March 2022 23:26:26 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
I downloaded the tar.gz of several of the most recent versions, going back to
the one that worked on my desktop (then running Devuan Beowulf). When I tried
downloading from the OO repositories, I got some weird files unlike ever
before seen. In /var/cache/apt/archives/ the packages had some extension (as
I recall) saying FAILED or some such.
But I had previously used the debs that were packed inside a tar.gz, so I
tried those (going back to version 4.17), and nothing ever really worked.
Already tried that, but doesn't deal adequately with those glaringly bright
borders.
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
to get
Open Office running,
How have you tried installing it?
What happens when you launch it?
They would install, and I could even get OO to launch, see the splash screen,
then it immediately crashed.
Did you try using the supported LibreOffice
themes?
Yes, but they don't really do it for me. The borders of the GUI itself
(surrounding my actual page) are still uncomfortably bright next to the black
background of the page. I studied those how-to wikis and web pages, got the
breeze-dark icons and theme, but never managed to get LibreOffice to use
anything darker than what is displayed in my sample screenshots.
(I am not
joking here. I get watery eyes, and eventually a migraine,
after staring at a white screen for more than about 5 minutes.)
Have you tried turning down the brightness?
Or installing one of those anti-glare filters?
I might, but now that's one more thing to buy, when really all I need to is
change that GUI, and it seems there must be a way to hack it.
I've attached some screenshots for comparison:
sample 1 is my current Libre Office, so you can see the borders. Just that
much white screen kills my eyes pretty fast. I don't have any screenshots of
Open Office at present. (Maybe I posted something on the Trinity page?
haven't checked but I don't think so.)
sample 2 is my Trinity-TDE colors, which is what I would most prefer to use.
It could be that I am getting old and set in my ways, but I don't think that
there is any way of regaining my youth and less sensitive eyes. (That's
partly hereditary, though, as my mother was the same; wore dark glasses
everywhere after about age 45, even indoors, like a jazz musician.) As for
myself, I practically invented dark mode for all my machines, long before
there was such a thing. Back when I still ran the rotten Apple and Windoze
(before 2006), I was doing that. My eyes have only got worse since then.
sample 3 is a web page as displayed by Icecat. I *believe* that those are from
another color scheme, using the theme that I created during my hate-hate with
KDE5 krap. That would be my second choice. The fonts are teeny-tiny, but at
least the colors are glaringly bright.
For the time being, I am mostly doing some layout of pages, so I go through
and create a pdf, then switch screens to kpdf, and when I make some change, I
go back to Libre Office for a few minutes. That isn't too hard on my eyes.
But once I get into something where I actually have to write, instead of just
revising and doing layout, it means I will be stuck on the Libre Office GUI
for much longer periods, and that will not work. I keep trying, and it just
ain't happening.
I am sticking with work that I can actually do now (switching between kpdf and
Libre Office screens), and meanwhile researching how to get it to look like
either my TDE theme or the KDE5 theme. Seems like I ought to be able at least
to get it to look like KDE5, using css or something. That trick using qt4ct
worked wonders in the past, but does nothing for me now.
Thanks for your patience. For me, this is literally a big headache.
Bill
9:12 a.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances - screenshots
On Saturday 05 March 2022 00:26:12 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
oops, I forgot the screenshot, too :)
Hi Bill!
How did you manage to get kpdf show the pdfs inverted?
This is what I have managed so far:
- dark colorscheme for TDE + usable scrollbars
- usable scrollbars for GTK2 + GTK3
- almost identical fonts for menues in TDE and GTK
Wow, I believed that you would be far ahead of me here. Always glad to share
my tricks. (Sorry, but you will have to make do with English, but it should
be intelligible. If you need a screenshot I can send step-by-step.)
KPDF
Setting > Configure KPDF > Accessibility
Click on Change Colors
then Changel dark and light colors
& choose your colors in the boxes you find there.
Click OK
Also there are other options for changing the paper color, etc.
Sometimes I switch back to plain view (that is, white background with black
text), so that I can see how a page will actually look when printed out.
Please forgive and correct my occasional mistakes. I don't know why I seem to
miss them in emails. A spell checker won't help, for example, to catch a
missing *not* (which sort of changes the apparent meaning); to wit --
> sample 3 is a web page as displayed by Icecat. I
*believe* that those are
> from another color scheme, using the theme that I created during my
> hate-hate with KDE5 krap. That would be my second choice. The fonts are
> teeny-tiny, but at least the colors are glaringly bright.
correction
"at least the colors are *not* glaringly bright."
One of these days I will get new computer glasses, too.
Bill
9:19 a.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances - screenshots
Anno domini 2022 Sat, 5 Mar 01:12:29 -0800
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
On Saturday 05 March 2022 00:26:12 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Oh ... I didn't even know that exists :) Ok, now I have it, too, thank you !
Nik
oops, I forgot the screenshot, too :)
Hi Bill!
How did you manage to get kpdf show the pdfs inverted?
This is what I have managed so far:
- dark colorscheme for TDE + usable scrollbars
- usable scrollbars for GTK2 + GTK3
- almost identical fonts for menues in TDE and GTK
Wow, I believed that you would be far ahead of me here. Always glad to share
my tricks. (Sorry, but you will have to make do with English, but it should
be intelligible. If you need a screenshot I can send step-by-step.)
KPDF
Setting > Configure KPDF > Accessibility
Click on Change Colors
then Changel dark and light colors
& choose your colors in the boxes you find there.
Click OK
Also there are other options for changing the paper color, etc.
Sometimes I switch back to plain view (that is, white background with black
text), so that I can see how a page will actually look when printed out.
Please forgive and correct my occasional mistakes. I don't know why I seem to
miss them in emails. A spell checker won't help, for example, to catch a
missing *not* (which sort of changes the apparent meaning); to wit --
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
> sample 3 is a web page as displayed by
Icecat. I *believe* that those are
> from another color scheme, using the theme that I created during my
> hate-hate with KDE5 krap. That would be my second choice. The fonts are
> teeny-tiny, but at least the colors are glaringly bright.
correction
"at least the colors are *not* glaringly bright."
One of these days I will get new computer glasses, too.
Bill
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9:27 a.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances - screenshots
On Saturday 05 March 2022 00:26:12 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
oops, I forgot the screenshot, too :)
Hi Bill!
How did you manage to get kpdf show the pdfs inverted?
This is what I have managed so far:
- dark colorscheme for TDE + usable scrollbars
- usable scrollbars for GTK2 + GTK3
- almost identical fonts for menues in TDE and GTK
Maybe my "problem" is that I want to keep using my own self-created
theme,
which goes back to those days of yore, KDE 3.5 and Kubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04.
I just want non-TDE programs to use a dark theme like Adwaita Dark (?) if they
will not use my TDE theme. I do hope that I can keep using my TDE theme, as I
don't want to reinvent the wheel yet again. (I still don't get royalties for
having invented it the first time, right after I invented fire.)
What does not work:
- firefox scrollbar width changes according to the clouds in Norway.
- GTK colorscheme does not match TDE, which is to be expected
- libreoffice is always black on white, inverted.
OO uses GTK2, so you need to install gtk2 themes and set the desided theme
with lxappearence. I thenk there was an environment variable something like
e.g.
I don't use the LXDE desktop, as it started doing intrusive stuff, just
like
KDE5 and the Gnomes. However, if lxappearance could help in this, I might be
willing to see if I can borrow and adapt a few items. I believe I still have
folders with the config files for LXDE.
GTK_THEME=Adwaita:dark gedit
to get "gedit" use dark theme. If I recall correctly from previouse
versions of libreoffice it needed libreoffice-gtk2 to work (if it did at
all) - and I remember some versions didn't give a s***t, so probably OO is
no different.
Nik
Yeah, that background would at least be tolerable, if I could get my non-TDE
programs to use it, but not use it for TDE.
Bill
9:57 a.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances - screenshots
Anno domini 2022 Sat, 5 Mar 01:27:29 -0800
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
--
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[...]
I don't use the LXDE desktop, as it started doing intrusive stuff, just like
KDE5 and the Gnomes. However, if lxappearance could help in this, I might be
willing to see if I can borrow and adapt a few items. I believe I still have
folders with the config files for LXDE.
You don't need LXDE, you just need lxappereance. This is the only reliable way to set
GTK2+3 themes I know of. And you can remove lxappereance later, when you are satisfied
with the results. In fact, it's a good idea to get rid of it the moent you start to
put your hand on ~/.gtkrc-2.0 and ~/.config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini 'cause it may (or may
not) revort your changes.
Nik
GTK_THEME=Adwaita:dark gedit
to get "gedit" use dark theme. If I recall correctly from previouse
versions of libreoffice it needed libreoffice-gtk2 to work (if it did at
all) - and I remember some versions didn't give a s***t, so probably OO is
no different.
Nik
Yeah, that background would at least be tolerable, if I could get my non-TDE
programs to use it, but not use it for TDE.
Bill
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10:12 a.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances - screenshots
On Saturday 05 March 2022 01:57:29 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2022 Sat, 5 Mar 01:27:29 -0800
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
I was hoping that might be the case. I have a lot of KDE5 icons that I like
(cursors, etc.), but I don't actually use KDE5 itself -- the icons after
download just sit in a folder.
Maybe there yet a way to do this. I can live with Libre Office if only I can
hack the GUI to something easier on the eyes. I managed to overcome the
problem with subtle changes in the page metrics (from Open Office > Libre
Office, that is) by using a fixed width for lines.
Open Office is still a noble cause, I believe, but like a lot of noble causes
it may be doomed to oblivion.
Bill
[...]
I don't use the LXDE desktop, as it started doing intrusive stuff, just
like KDE5 and the Gnomes. However, if lxappearance could help in this, I
might be willing to see if I can borrow and adapt a few items. I believe
I still have folders with the config files for LXDE.
You don't need LXDE, you just need lxappereance. This is the only reliable
way to set GTK2+3 themes I know of. And you can remove lxappereance later,
when you are satisfied with the results. In fact, it's a good idea to get
rid of it the moent you start to put your hand on ~/.gtkrc-2.0 and
~/.config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini 'cause it may (or may not) revort your
changes.
Nik
2:04 p.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances - screenshots
On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 19:10:43 -0800
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
SORRY - did everything except to add the attachments
...
On Thursday 03 March 2022 23:26:26 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
As you can see from the attachment, it *is* possible to tame the beast,
but damned if I can remember how I did it, as it's been a few years.
I think it's 90% GTK3 theming and 10% Tools > Options > Application
Colors and other internal settings.
If you invoke Help > About, there's a "User Interface" line near the
bottom.
What does it say for you? I have "UI render: default; VCL: gtk3".
E. Liddell
Did you try using the supported LibreOffice
themes?
Yes, but they don't really do it for me. The borders of the GUI itself
(surrounding my actual page) are still uncomfortably bright next to the black
background of the page. I studied those how-to wikis and web pages, got the
breeze-dark icons and theme, but never managed to get LibreOffice to use
anything darker than what is displayed in my sample screenshots. 
5:37 p.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances - screenshots
On Saturday 05 March 2022 06:04:57 E. Liddell wrote:
As you can see from the attachment, it *is* possible
to tame the beast,
but damned if I can remember how I did it, as it's been a few years.
I think it's 90% GTK3 theming and 10% Tools > Options > Application
Colors and other internal settings.
If you invoke Help > About, there's a "User Interface" line near the
bottom. What does it say for you? I have "UI render: default; VCL: gtk3".
E. Liddell
a-HA!
I knew you had been holding out on me!
;-)
But I suspected there was some way like this.
Mine says "UI render: default: VCL: x11.
How to change x11 to gtk3, then?
Bill
7:47 p.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances - screenshots
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 09:37:59 -0800
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
On Saturday 05 March 2022 06:04:57 E. Liddell wrote:
Not intentionally. Until I went poking around, I didn't know about "VCL",
which apparently is the interface between LibreOffice and whatever
widget library it happens to be using. So it's a plausible source of your
woes.
As you can see from the attachment, it *is*
possible to tame the beast,
but damned if I can remember how I did it, as it's been a few years.
I think it's 90% GTK3 theming and 10% Tools > Options > Application
Colors and other internal settings.
If you invoke Help > About, there's a "User Interface" line near the
bottom. What does it say for you? I have "UI render: default; VCL: gtk3".
E. Liddell
a-HA!
I knew you had been holding out on me!
;-) But I suspected there was some way like this.
Mine says "UI render: default: VCL: x11.
How to change x11 to gtk3, then?
There's an environment variable, SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN. You want
SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN=gtk3 . (You can also try =qt5 , but I don't know
what results you'll get, as it seems to have problems on some non-KDE5
platforms.) Currently I think you may have =generic .
I don't have it set, but I also, in typical Gentoo fashion, compiled my own
copy of LibreOffice with only some widget sets enabled.
E. Liddell
7:54 p.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances - screenshots
Anno domini 2022 Sat, 5 Mar 14:47:23 -0500
E. Liddell scripsit:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 09:37:59 -0800
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
You might need "libreoffice-gtk3". SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN=gtk3 may work on LO6, but
not on LO7.
Nik
On Saturday 05 March 2022 06:04:57 E. Liddell
wrote:
Not intentionally. Until I went poking around, I didn't know about "VCL",
which apparently is the interface between LibreOffice and whatever
widget library it happens to be using. So it's a plausible source of your
woes.
As you can see from the attachment, it *is*
possible to tame the beast,
but damned if I can remember how I did it, as it's been a few years.
I think it's 90% GTK3 theming and 10% Tools > Options > Application
Colors and other internal settings.
If you invoke Help > About, there's a "User Interface" line near the
bottom. What does it say for you? I have "UI render: default; VCL: gtk3".
E. Liddell
a-HA!
I knew you had been holding out on me!
;-) But I suspected there was some way like this.
Mine says "UI render: default: VCL: x11.
How to change x11 to gtk3, then?
There's an environment variable, SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN. You want
SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN=gtk3 . (You can also try =qt5 , but I don't know
what results you'll get, as it seems to have problems on some non-KDE5
platforms.) Currently I think you may have =generic .
I don't have it set, but I also, in typical Gentoo fashion, compiled my own
copy of LibreOffice with only some widget sets enabled.
E. Liddell
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8:34 p.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances - screenshots
On Saturday 05 March 2022 11:54:48 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Yes! I dood it!
Dig the new look. I also got some other dark themes, so now I can do a little
juggling to see what is the best combination.
Like yourself, though ... I'm not quite sure just how it happened. I will try
to retrace my steps for myself and the possible benefit of others.
* I was messing with lxappearance and qt5ct. Here, under the tab for
Appearance, I set Style as gtk2, and also Standard dialogs for GTK2. (That's
how it appears on screen.)
* Also I unchecked "use TDE colors" in TCC / Appearance & Themes / Colors
(but
this turned everything to XFCE or some other defaults, i.e., white background
and black text, and stopped using my cursor theme. Then I rechecked that
box, "use TDE colors": I don't have a clue if that's significant at all.
* I changed the theme to Adwaita (somewhere or other); but now I can't find
where I did it. Also I don't know if this means anything.
There were a couple other variants (but *all* of them were dark themes) that I
went through, but this is what I am stuck on at the moment, because, you
know, YIPPEEEEEEEE!!!!!
My eyes will last to see for another few days, maybe more.
Thanks everybody! (I'm not sure what anybody actually *did*, but somehow I got
it to happen.)
Bill
Until I went
poking around, I didn't know about
"VCL", which apparently is the interface between LibreOffice and whatever
widget library it happens to be using. So it's a plausible source of
your woes.
You might need "libreoffice-gtk3". SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN=gtk3 may work on LO6,
but not on LO7.
> E. Liddell But I suspected there was some way like this.
Mine says "UI render: default: VCL: x11.
How to change x11 to gtk3, then?
There's an environment variable, SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN. You want
SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN=gtk3 . (You can also try =qt5 , but I don't know
what results you'll get, as it seems to have problems on some non-KDE5
platforms.) Currently I think you may have =generic .
I don't have it set, but I also, in typical Gentoo fashion, compiled my
own copy of LibreOffice with only some widget sets enabled. 
10:06 p.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances - screenshots
On Saturday 05 March 2022 21:34:06 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Is it possible to hear this song, with an attached sound file ?
I want to sing it with my guitar.
Thanks.
André
11:02 p.m.
New subject: non-starting browsers & other annoyances - screenshots
On Saturday 05 March 2022 14:06:40 ajh-valmer wrote:
On Saturday 05 March 2022 21:34:06 William Morder via
tde-users wrote:
Is it possible to hear this song, with an attached sound file ?
I want to sing it with my guitar.
Thanks.
André
The song is by Sam Cooke, "Nothing Can Change This Love"; there are many links
available on YouTube and elsewhere (wherever you get your music). If you use
youtube-dl it's easy to download from there.
The chord chart is my own arrangement, to make it easier for other people to
play along with me when I (occasionally, or rarely) perform. I attached a jpg
of my own chord chart for you; I usually make them up in Office, then create
a pdf, but to make it convenient for quick peeks or to put on small screens
(like other people's phones), I make a mini jpg from the pdf.
Otherwise I can find a way to get a copy of the sound file to you. (I try to
be careful because of the copyright trolls,) Wikipedia has a page on it, I
believe, although I have problems accessing some pages at the moment due to
the fact that I am downloading some big files and that is eating up my
bandwidth.
Bill
4 Mar
4 Mar
8:24 a.m.
Anno domini 2022 Thu, 3 Mar 17:01:09 -0800
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
[...]
Then you run this command:
sudo sh -c "echo 'export QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=gtk2' >>
/etc/environment"
and reboot, and it always worked (at least, when I was running Devuan Beowulf
on my desktop).
"man environment" suggest a different format for each environment varable, so
this might cause problems.
Nik
The error message in qt5ct said that it ought to be
something
else, I think it was qt5 or maybe gtk5 (is that a thing?). So I tried
modifying the command to:
sudo sh -c "echo 'export QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=qt5ct' >>
/etc/environment"
but this did nothing. I hesitate to mess with this any more, since my system
is stable again.
Anyway ... so once more, I stand at the door, almost there, but can't get in.
Now I am back to the same problem that irked me before; namely, either to get
Open Office running, or to get Libre Office running and to change the color
scheme of the GUI interface to something that doesn't cause me severe pain
and discomfort (from looking at large patches white screen). I am wondering
if I ought to try css, as I believe I still have E. Liddell's scripts
somewhere (and his old emails with the attachments). Maybe I can use that to
get my Libre Office GUI interface to use colors that are not so hard on my
eyes. (I am not joking here. I get watery eyes, and eventually a migraine,
after staring at a white screen for more than about 5 minutes.)
Apologies for length, but I was trying to recount the various factors that may
or not be relevant. I expect it will get trimmed in the responses.
Any observations or suggestions or advice are appreciated.
Bill
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9:28 a.m.
On Friday 04 March 2022 00:24:28 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2022 Thu, 3 Mar 17:01:09 -0800
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
Hi Nik!
I just tried out Michael's suggestions, and they are a slight improvement over
the default glaringly bright white screen; sort of like eyedrops after my
eyeballs have already been gouged out. It's better, but not much, and I can't
seem to get qt5ct to impose TDE's colors on Libre Office.
In one of the older how-to posts (from 2012 or so?) there was mention of a
package named libreoffice-kde which was supposed to do the trick. I wonder if
there is any chance of making a trinity version of that package,
libreoffice-tde or libreoffice-kde-trinity?
Anyway, still moving things around. Sooner or later I will figure out
something. I only hope that I live to see it.
As for the colors and fonts on the page itself (what appears "inside" the
GUI), that's easier to accomplish without all that fuss. Just make a backup
of the user folder (in the config of libreoffice or openoffice), then copy
over your previous user folder from whatever you were using. That works
great. It's not the page itself that bothers my eyes, but the borders, and
all the help pages, configuration pages, etc. Just the borders alone are hard
on my eyes. I did manage to get the breeze dark theme working, but as I said,
it's just a minor improvement.
Bill
[...]
Then you run this command:
sudo sh -c "echo 'export QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=gtk2' >>
/etc/environment"
and reboot, and it always worked (at least, when I was running Devuan
Beowulf on my desktop).
"man environment" suggest a different format for each environment varable,
so this might cause problems.
Nik
9:46 a.m.
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2022 Fri, 4 Mar 01:28:14 -0800
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
Hi Nik!
I just tried out Michael's suggestions, and they are a slight improvement over
the default glaringly bright white screen; sort of like eyedrops after my
eyeballs have already been gouged out. It's better, but not much, and I can't
seem to get qt5ct to impose TDE's colors on Libre Office.
I'm not sure what qt5ct actually does here on daedalus, but it definitly does not
transfer the TDE colorscheme to QT5 programs nor to GTK programs. What it does is force
GTK3 color scheme to QT5 applications (Awaita-dark - which I set with lxappearance).
In one of the older how-to posts (from 2012 or so?)
there was mention of a
package named libreoffice-kde which was supposed to do the trick. I wonder if
there is any chance of making a trinity version of that package,
libreoffice-tde or libreoffice-kde-trinity?
That's gone with the wind.
Nik
Anyway, still moving things around. Sooner or later I
will figure out
something. I only hope that I live to see it.
As for the colors and fonts on the page itself (what appears "inside" the
GUI), that's easier to accomplish without all that fuss. Just make a backup
of the user folder (in the config of libreoffice or openoffice), then copy
over your previous user folder from whatever you were using. That works
great. It's not the page itself that bothers my eyes, but the borders, and
all the help pages, configuration pages, etc. Just the borders alone are hard
on my eyes. I did manage to get the breeze dark theme working, but as I said,
it's just a minor improvement.
Bill
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10:27 a.m.
Anno domini 2022 Fri, 4 Mar 02:14:28 -0800
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
On Friday 04 March 2022 01:46:51 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
The gods are raining on my parade.
LOL ... "Crom ... grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, the hell with
you!"
https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--2O5NRQ0E--/t_Preview/…
:)
any
chance of making a trinity version of that
package, libreoffice-tde or libreoffice-kde-trinity?
That's gone with the wind.
Nik
:-\
Bill
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10:40 a.m.
On Friday 04 March 2022 02:27:31 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2022 Fri, 4 Mar 02:14:28 -0800
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
This is a very good likeness of me. It's almost like looking in the mirror.
The artist is a genius, captured my mood exactly.
Bill
On Friday 04 March 2022 01:46:51 Dr. Nikolaus
Klepp wrote:
The gods are raining on my parade.
LOL ... "Crom ... grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, the hell with
you!"
https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--2O5NRQ0E--/t_Preview/
b_rgb:191919,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1587674073/production/designs/9
409771_0.jpg
:)
:
> :-\
>
> Bill any
chance of making a trinity version of that
package, libreoffice-tde or libreoffice-kde-trinity?
That's gone with the wind.
Nik
786
days inactive
787
days old
25 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
ajh-valmer -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
E. Liddell -
Michael -
Steven D'Aprano -
William Morder