Greets, folks . . .
I once loved my iPad, but Apple has made me hate and despise it, with constant unwanted terrible updates that remove functionality and have reduced battery life from <12 hours to >3 hours. (IoS 11 sucks so badly that it pulls the branches off nearby trees.) I have had it with the iPad. But I have need of a tablet.
It's been awhile since I heard anything involving Linux being put on a tablet; for a time I had a version of Linux running on an H-P Touchpad, which has long since died. The X support was semi-decent -- I had either OpenOffice.org or Libre Office running (very slowly) on it.
That was probably six years ago. I kind of hope that some sort of Linux/X development has taken place, but haven't been able to learn much. Anybody know if there has been?
And the important question: would it be possible to put TDE on it and if I did, would it work?
Thanks!
On Saturday 11 November 2017 03.25:28 dep wrote:
Greets, folks . . .
I once loved my iPad, but Apple has made me hate and despise it, with constant unwanted terrible updates that remove functionality and have reduced battery life from <12 hours to >3 hours. (IoS 11 sucks so badly that it pulls the branches off nearby trees.) I have had it with the iPad. But I have need of a tablet.
It's been awhile since I heard anything involving Linux being put on a tablet; for a time I had a version of Linux running on an H-P Touchpad, which has long since died. The X support was semi-decent -- I had either OpenOffice.org or Libre Office running (very slowly) on it.
That was probably six years ago. I kind of hope that some sort of Linux/X development has taken place, but haven't been able to learn much. Anybody know if there has been?
And the important question: would it be possible to put TDE on it and if I did, would it work?
Thanks!
Well, I've been trying this for some time now and the the answer is no easy one. Let's try.
a) If you are looking for an iPad replacement, then I am afraid the answer is *no*: iOS, for all it can suck, is made for touch. Linux is not.
b) Your first problem is to find working hardware, and it depends on what you want to do. Basic touch works for example on my Thinkpad X220t which has an integrated Wacom digitizer. I've been trying to use it to annotate pdfs and it kind of works, but there are no sublimities like not registering finger touch when you're using the pen.
I've managed to make a Chuwi Tablet work under Linux after recompiling the goodix module. The tablet has a (good) Atom chip and it does work with Gnome 3, albeit not as snappy as Windows 10. I've installed trinity yesterday and I am now playing with the possibilities to make it "touchable" but KDE 3 was clearly not created for that. I'll post more when I find out.
So you have to find a tablet that has enough power to run a GUI *and* will boot Linux *and* has a supported digitizer.
There are not so bad Chinese tablets around (Chuwi, Teclast and others). Chuwi claims "Ubuntu support", which is right as there is a BIOS setting to boot Linux. However they changed the digitizer during production which is why the kernel does not find it (you must change the model number in the goodix.o source and recompile). Digitizer support seems to stop sometimes (maybe compiling the module in the kernel would help?)
c) When the digitizer works, multi-touch support seems less developed than under Windows or Android (I never really used iOS but I understand it should work). Auto-rotation is another thing that does not work.
When it comes to writing, Goodix is just unusable (not only with Linux). If you want to *write* you need a much better (and expensive) digitizer. With Linux I would look for a Wacom.
I have bought a second hand Sony Tap11 (waiting for it) that is supposed to run Linux and have a Wacom device. More about that around the end of the month I hope.
I am also looking for a second hand Microsoft Surface Pro. Version 2 seems likely to run Linux and have Wacom hardware.
d) Last thing: some recent devices (my Chuwi Hi13 for instance) have 3K screens (3000x2000) that look gorgeous but require UI scaling. Windows 10 does this without asking, Gnome 3 is relatively easy. Trinity has options but I am testing what works. Basically the UI should be vectorial to be able to scale easily and Trinity had bitmap elements, so it gets quite ugly (128 pixel icons on a HiD screen...)
I would say that for light use (I mostly need a tablet to control a presentation tool), unfortunately, for the moment, Windows 10 is the best. You get itchy every time you have to work with the OS, but the GUI is actually not so bad.
I hope I have better news in the next weeks but I fail to see anyone really trying to bring Linux on tablets for the moment (Ubuntu seems to have abandoned, KDE is way too heavy, Gnome is barely usable, the lighter DE's don't care (or can't).
Cheers,
Thierry
dep wrote:
Greets, folks . . .
I once loved my iPad, but Apple has made me hate and despise it, with constant unwanted terrible updates that remove functionality and have reduced battery life from <12 hours to >3 hours. (IoS 11 sucks so badly that it pulls the branches off nearby trees.) I have had it with the iPad. But I have need of a tablet.
It's been awhile since I heard anything involving Linux being put on a tablet; for a time I had a version of Linux running on an H-P Touchpad, which has long since died. The X support was semi-decent -- I had either OpenOffice.org or Libre Office running (very slowly) on it.
That was probably six years ago. I kind of hope that some sort of Linux/X development has taken place, but haven't been able to learn much. Anybody know if there has been?
And the important question: would it be possible to put TDE on it and if I did, would it work?
Thanks!
The best I have seen so far is the MeeGo and Mer projects (both developed for touch), but I have not hardware (tablets) with those. SailfishOS or its community ports might be of interest, though the community ports does not support Android apps, where Sailfish has emulator and integration. Anyway Qt5 is really promissing, but in some aspects it might be too early. However I think it is worth looking in this direction.
regards
Am Samstag, 11. November 2017 schrieb dep:
Greets, folks . . .
I once loved my iPad, but Apple has made me hate and despise it, with constant unwanted terrible updates that remove functionality and have reduced battery life from <12 hours to >3 hours. (IoS 11 sucks so badly that it pulls the branches off nearby trees.) I have had it with the iPad. But I have need of a tablet.
It's been awhile since I heard anything involving Linux being put on a tablet; for a time I had a version of Linux running on an H-P Touchpad, which has long since died. The X support was semi-decent -- I had either OpenOffice.org or Libre Office running (very slowly) on it.
That was probably six years ago. I kind of hope that some sort of Linux/X development has taken place, but haven't been able to learn much. Anybody know if there has been?
And the important question: would it be possible to put TDE on it and if I did, would it work?
Thanks!
I have Getac T800 in the field. Hardware works decently well, only 3 things are broken (only 3 stages of brightness, backlight cannot be turned off, two of the case buttons (P1+P2) have the same scancode). UEFI is an abomination, I would never use these devices for myself. Device comes with with windows10, which is not usable at all. What's worse: these "new" Intel atom CPUs are not faster than a EEEPC800 (on windows, too). Only OpenGL is really OK :-) What I have seen, the hardware of intel based tablets is about the same over all brands, which means there is not much power in it. As it comes to TDE, it works very nice on these devices.
Nik
On Saturday 11 November 2017 03:25:28 dep wrote:
Greets, folks . . .
I once loved my iPad, but Apple has made me hate and despise it, with constant unwanted terrible updates that remove functionality and have reduced battery life from <12 hours to >3 hours. (IoS 11 sucks so badly that it pulls the branches off nearby trees.) I have had it with the iPad. But I have need of a tablet.
It's been awhile since I heard anything involving Linux being put on a tablet; for a time I had a version of Linux running on an H-P Touchpad, which has long since died. The X support was semi-decent -- I had either OpenOffice.org or Libre Office running (very slowly) on it.
That was probably six years ago. I kind of hope that some sort of Linux/X development has taken place, but haven't been able to learn much. Anybody know if there has been?
And the important question: would it be possible to put TDE on it and if I did, would it work?
Thanks!
TDE is for a desktop (mouse/keyboard/monitor) For tablets you should use something else you are definitely asking advice at the wrong place.
Like other's have said, sailfish, meego are options I don't know if ubuntutouch is still developed by some one... You can also use android, open source or stock or lineage OS....
Also, i think unity, gnome3 and KDE5 are meant to be hybrid....
Hi,
On Saturday 11 November 2017 03:25:28 dep wrote:
Greets, folks . . .
I once loved my iPad, but Apple has made me hate and despise it, with constant unwanted terrible updates that remove functionality and have reduced battery life from <12 hours to >3 hours. (IoS 11 sucks so badly that it pulls the branches off nearby trees.) I have had it with the iPad. But I have need of a tablet.
It's been awhile since I heard anything involving Linux being put on a tablet; for a time I had a version of Linux running on an H-P Touchpad, which has long since died. The X support was semi-decent -- I had either OpenOffice.org or Libre Office running (very slowly) on it.
That was probably six years ago. I kind of hope that some sort of Linux/X development has taken place, but haven't been able to learn much. Anybody know if there has been?
And the important question: would it be possible to put TDE on it and if I did, would it work?
Thanks!
TDE is for a desktop (mouse/keyboard/monitor) For tablets you should use something else you are definitely asking advice at the wrong place.
Like other's have said, sailfish, meego are options I don't know if ubuntutouch is still developed by some one... You can also use android, open source or stock or lineage OS....
Also, i think unity, gnome3 and KDE5 are meant to be hybrid....
You are not quite right. I use an all in one computer with a touch screen with Trinity. It's quite good, because all of the screen elements (icons, control panel, window frames) could be enlarged enormous, so the can be used with fingers. As screen keyboard I use xkeyboard which integrates also very well. Most problems make websites which work with a fixed size layout. Ok, it is not a real workstation for day by day work.
Just my 2 ct. Rolf
So, for information:
I've purchased a second hand Surface Pro - and of course installed Linux.
I've installed Debian 9, with Gnome 3 and TDE. Touchscreen works out of the box (but is impossible to calibrate if rotated) Keyboard works out of the boy (inclusive backlight) Touchpad works out of the boy (but is not good)
WiFi (Marvell) works once firmware has beein installed and Network manager's mac randomization has been turned off
Autonomy seems not too bad (over 5 hours, that's less than Windows 10 pretends to give).
Suspend and Hibernate work (using systemctl)
There are two things I would still like under linux/TDE:
- bigger windows decoration - A way to make the system ignore had-touch when using the stylus. This works under Windows and makes anotating a document much easier.
The stylus works great (and is actually compatible with the one I use on the Thinkpad X220T). Strangely this stylus works on the Thinkpad's Wacom *and* the surface's digitizer, but the later is not identified as Wacom - maybe just a different identifier that should be set in the driver code?
With a core i5, 8GB RAM and a 256 SSD for the equivalent of $300 that's not bad.
Thierry
On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 23:29:34 +0100 Thierry de Coulon tcoulon@decoulon.ch wrote:
- bigger windows decoration
The Smooth Blend window decoration style from tdeartwork is resizable. You'll have to adjust the width of the titlebar before you can increase the icon size. Alternatively, Glow, from the same package, has a few different preset sizes.
E. Liddell
On Tuesday 21 November 2017 00.52:22 E. Liddell wrote:
The Smooth Blend window decoration style from tdeartwork is resizable. You'll have to adjust the width of the titlebar before you can increase the icon size. Alternatively, Glow, from the same package, has a few different preset sizes.
E. Liddell
Thanks. I'll take a look
said Thierry de Coulon: | So, for information: | | I've purchased a second hand Surface Pro - and of course installed | Linux. | | I've installed Debian 9, with Gnome 3 and TDE. | Touchscreen works out of the box (but is impossible to calibrate if | rotated) Keyboard works out of the boy (inclusive backlight) | Touchpad works out of the boy (but is not good) | | WiFi (Marvell) works once firmware has beein installed and Network | manager's mac randomization has been turned off | | Autonomy seems not too bad (over 5 hours, that's less than Windows 10 | pretends to give). | | Suspend and Hibernate work (using systemctl) | | There are two things I would still like under linux/TDE: | | - bigger windows decoration | - A way to make the system ignore had-touch when using the stylus. This | works under Windows and makes anotating a document much easier. | | The stylus works great (and is actually compatible with the one I use on | the Thinkpad X220T). Strangely this stylus works on the Thinkpad's Wacom | *and* the surface's digitizer, but the later is not identified as Wacom | - maybe just a different identifier that should be set in the driver | code? | | With a core i5, 8GB RAM and a 256 SSD for the equivalent of $300 that's | not bad.
That sounds very promising -- I'll see what I can find in a Surface Pro for not a huge amount of money.
Thanks very much for the update!
On Tuesday 21 November 2017 03.54:44 dep wrote:
said Thierry de Coulon: That sounds very promising -- I'll see what I can find in a Surface Pro for not a huge amount of money.
Thanks very much for the update!
Re-reading my post I realize I wrote "Surface Pro". Actually it is "Surface Pro 2". And I said the keyboard works, but the FN-keys don't. Sound is quite good.
Soon I should try a Sony Vaio Tap 11 that is also reported as working with Linux.
Thierry
Does backlight control work?
Nik
Am Montag, 20. November 2017 schrieb Thierry de Coulon:
So, for information:
I've purchased a second hand Surface Pro - and of course installed Linux.
I've installed Debian 9, with Gnome 3 and TDE. Touchscreen works out of the box (but is impossible to calibrate if rotated) Keyboard works out of the boy (inclusive backlight) Touchpad works out of the boy (but is not good)
WiFi (Marvell) works once firmware has beein installed and Network manager's mac randomization has been turned off
Autonomy seems not too bad (over 5 hours, that's less than Windows 10 pretends to give).
Suspend and Hibernate work (using systemctl)
There are two things I would still like under linux/TDE:
- bigger windows decoration
- A way to make the system ignore had-touch when using the stylus. This works
under Windows and makes anotating a document much easier.
The stylus works great (and is actually compatible with the one I use on the Thinkpad X220T). Strangely this stylus works on the Thinkpad's Wacom *and* the surface's digitizer, but the later is not identified as Wacom - maybe just a different identifier that should be set in the driver code?
With a core i5, 8GB RAM and a 256 SSD for the equivalent of $300 that's not bad.
Thierry
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On Tuesday 21 November 2017 08.53:45 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Does backlight control work?
Nik
Hi Nick,
Keyboard backlight works - no "control"
Fn-F1 and Fn-F2 (keyboard screen backlight control) don't work. Backlight control over Trinity control center works
Thierry
On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 9:25 PM, dep dep@drippingwithirony.com wrote:
Greets, folks . . .
I once loved my iPad, but Apple has made me hate and despise it, with constant unwanted terrible updates that remove functionality and have reduced battery life from <12 hours to >3 hours. (IoS 11 sucks so badly that it pulls the branches off nearby trees.) I have had it with the iPad. But I have need of a tablet.
same here, now convinced apple is the devil ( probably worst than microsoft ).
It's been awhile since I heard anything involving Linux being put on a tablet; for a time I had a version of Linux running on an H-P Touchpad, which has long since died. The X support was semi-decent -- I had either OpenOffice.org or Libre Office running (very slowly) on it.
perhaps you will be happy to read that : https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/19/samsung_linux_on_galaxy/
That was probably six years ago. I kind of hope that some sort of Linux/X development has taken place, but haven't been able to learn much. Anybody know if there has been?
And the important question: would it be possible to put TDE on it and if I did, would it work?
Thanks!
dep
The shortest distance between you and playing great acoustic guitar: the great new instructional DVDs from Marjorie Thompson, available at www.MarjorieThompson.com
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OK, so after some time trying I can come back with the following results:
While Linux does run on the Sony Vaio Tap11, this machine is not reliable. I had a lot of difficulties getting things to run correctly - and the (second hand) machine ended hanging itself (battery problem seems). And as the battery is not removable and the reset did not work...
The Microsoft Surface Pro 2, on the other hand, works better than I ever dreamed. I have got:
- Windows 10 pro "working". I don't like the OS but it's clearly more advanced than Linux on the "touch" side. I keep it for some PDF editing and because it's one of the "official" OSes at work (our IT people know nothing about Linux so they pretend it can't work for them).
- Debian 9 with everything working except screen calibration when rotated. I still have to work on that one. Touchscreen, active pen, suspend and hibernate (over systemctl) working.
- To do this I had to deactivate secure boot, so I get a red "surface" screen at boot (never mind). Debian boots from grub2 but I installed refind to have a touch enabled boot screen and that works.
- I had problems because the Linux GUI does not let me enable palm rejection. I found a script that does that, but the pen's xinput ID changes frequently. I ended up writing a small tcl/tk app that lets me enable / disable the touchscreen, so now I can annotate pdfs on the screen (unfortunately only in landscape mode).
-Trinity work well in touch mode if you increase fonts and icons a little. Not the most beautiful screen ever but I can live with it.
Thierry
said Thierry de Coulon: | OK, so after some time trying I can come back with the following | results: | | While Linux does run on the Sony Vaio Tap11, this machine is not | reliable. I had a lot of difficulties getting things to run correctly - | and the (second hand) machine ended hanging itself (battery problem | seems). And as the battery is not removable and the reset did not | work... | | The Microsoft Surface Pro 2, on the other hand, works better than I ever | dreamed. I have got: | | - Windows 10 pro "working". I don't like the OS but it's clearly more | advanced than Linux on the "touch" side. I keep it for some PDF editing | and because it's one of the "official" OSes at work (our IT people know | nothing about Linux so they pretend it can't work for them). | | - Debian 9 with everything working except screen calibration when | rotated. I still have to work on that one. Touchscreen, active pen, | suspend and hibernate (over systemctl) working. | | - To do this I had to deactivate secure boot, so I get a red "surface" | screen at boot (never mind). Debian boots from grub2 but I installed | refind to have a touch enabled boot screen and that works. | | - I had problems because the Linux GUI does not let me enable palm | rejection. I found a script that does that, but the pen's xinput ID | changes frequently. I ended up writing a small tcl/tk app that lets me | enable / disable the touchscreen, so now I can annotate pdfs on the | screen (unfortunately only in landscape mode). | | -Trinity work well in touch mode if you increase fonts and icons a | little. Not the most beautiful screen ever but I can live with it. | | Thierry
This is wonderful news -- thanks very much!
I'll have now to undertake doing it myself!
Hello all,
Reviving this thread because I think I found the "perfect" Linux/TDE 2 in 1.
I don't like touchpads and the Surface Pro 2's was driving me mad, so I searched for a 2 in 1 with a track point or similar, and found the Toshiba z20t (it does have a touchpad too, if you like).
The model I got (for £300 on ebay) is the Z20t-B-113. As far as I can say everything works out of the box: Touchscreen, stylus, keyboard (except the FN special keys), touchpad (which I deactivated), track point, suspend and hibernate (from tde powersave menu).
The machine uses an Atmel touchscreen (that can be controled with xrandr) and a Wacom pen digitizer (which can be controled with xsetwacom).
I have not tried again to set up palm rejection, I find better to switch off the touchscreen when I need to write, so I wrote a tcl/tk applet to do this with xinput.
To my surprise xinput-calibration works in portrait mode on this machine (it does not on my thinkpad). Pen precision is not always perfect but globaly I can live with it.
There remain two small problems I'm working on: - I get error messages about loading the iwlwifi modules (although wifi is working) - when I rotate the screen (xrandr on "Atmel, ID 10) and the pen digitizer (xsetwacom on Wacom ISDv4 12C Pen stylus, ID 11) the touchpad/point stick pointer does not rotate (would be AlpsPS/2 ALPS DualPoint Touchpad / STick with IDs 14 and 15).
xinput lets me disable/enable but not rotate xrandr works only on the screens xsetwacom only works on Wacom devices
Any idea how I could rotate the pointing device? Not so important because the stylus works but...
The keyboard is OK, the Tablet is light and nice, the digitizer is good, TDE works great and the machine has a second battery in the keyboard, so after setting up everything since last evening I still have 47% (given as more than 10 hours) of energy (under lInux).
Have a nice day,
Thierry
Am Samstag, 20. Januar 2018 schrieb Thierry de Coulon:
Hello all,
Reviving this thread because I think I found the "perfect" Linux/TDE 2 in 1.
I don't like touchpads and the Surface Pro 2's was driving me mad, so I searched for a 2 in 1 with a track point or similar, and found the Toshiba z20t (it does have a touchpad too, if you like).
The model I got (for £300 on ebay) is the Z20t-B-113. As far as I can say everything works out of the box: Touchscreen, stylus, keyboard (except the FN special keys), touchpad (which I deactivated), track point, suspend and hibernate (from tde powersave menu).
The machine uses an Atmel touchscreen (that can be controled with xrandr) and a Wacom pen digitizer (which can be controled with xsetwacom).
I have not tried again to set up palm rejection, I find better to switch off the touchscreen when I need to write, so I wrote a tcl/tk applet to do this with xinput.
To my surprise xinput-calibration works in portrait mode on this machine (it does not on my thinkpad). Pen precision is not always perfect but globaly I can live with it.
There remain two small problems I'm working on:
- I get error messages about loading the iwlwifi modules (although wifi is
working)
- when I rotate the screen (xrandr on "Atmel, ID 10) and the pen digitizer
(xsetwacom on Wacom ISDv4 12C Pen stylus, ID 11) the touchpad/point stick pointer does not rotate (would be AlpsPS/2 ALPS DualPoint Touchpad / STick with IDs 14 and 15).
xinput lets me disable/enable but not rotate xrandr works only on the screens xsetwacom only works on Wacom devices
Any idea how I could rotate the pointing device? Not so important because the stylus works but...
The keyboard is OK, the Tablet is light and nice, the digitizer is good, TDE works great and the machine has a second battery in the keyboard, so after setting up everything since last evening I still have 47% (given as more than 10 hours) of energy (under lInux).
Have a nice day,
Thierry
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This is from my RPi with touchscreen, it rotates the input device with a transformation matrix, so might be useful to you:
# Touchscreen Rotation am RPi: # 90 Grad: #xinput --set-prop 'FT5406 memory based driver' 'Coordinate Transformation Matrix' 0 1 0 -1 0 1 0 0 1 # 180 Grad: xinput --set-prop 'FT5406 memory based driver' 'Coordinate Transformation Matrix' -1 0 1 0 -1 1 0 0 1
Nik
On Saturday 20 January 2018 10.37:25 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
This is from my RPi with touchscreen, it rotates the input device with a transformation matrix, so might be useful to you:
# Touchscreen Rotation am RPi: # 90 Grad: #xinput --set-prop 'FT5406 memory based driver' 'Coordinate Transformation Matrix' 0 1 0 -1 0 1 0 0 1 # 180 Grad: xinput --set-prop 'FT5406 memory based driver' 'Coordinate Transformation Matrix' -1 0 1 0 -1 1 0 0 1
Nik
Thanks, It was. It took me some time to figure out 270° but I did.
Using xinput --set-prop with both the touchscreen and the PS/2 pointer is perfect.
Thierry
said Thierry de Coulon:
. . .
| I don't like touchpads and the Surface Pro 2's was driving me mad, so I | searched for a 2 in 1 with a track point or similar, and found the | Toshiba z20t (it does have a touchpad too, if you like). | | The model I got (for £300 on ebay) is the Z20t-B-113. As far as I can | say everything works out of the box: Touchscreen, stylus, keyboard | (except the FN special keys), touchpad (which I deactivated), track | point, suspend and hibernate (from tde powersave menu). | | The machine uses an Atmel touchscreen (that can be controled with | xrandr) and a Wacom pen digitizer (which can be controled with | xsetwacom).
. . .
Fascinating -- I'd go for one forthwith were my entire experimental budget not tied up in the Planet Computers Gemini, which I am to receive Real Soon Now. As we wait for it to ship, the rumors are getting crazier and crazier; the one thing that I know it lacks (that I wish it had) is some sort of Trackpoint-like pointer control; instead, it's pure touchscreen, which means I'll be developing new skills in keyboard navigation (thanks in part to answers gotten here).
If it doesn't work out as I hope, I'll be in the market for the Toshiba.
-
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dep -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
E. Liddell -
Rolf Schmidt -
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william -
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