27 Dec
2014
27 Dec
'14
7:32 a.m.
greets!
I just did a dist-upgrade (to R14 Jessie; exegnu) somewhat
incorrectly, it made a lot of changes I hadn't intended but that's
user error for the most part. one error was not filtering out stuff I
consider junk, for instance 'games'.
I thought I'd try purging them the so-called easy way using kpackage
but when I get set to remove kdegames-trinity, it _looks_ like
tde-trinity will go along it. I know this has to do with
'meta-packages' but I don't understand the implications.
one gets the same result from apt-get.
I'm happy, happier in fact, to do all of this using apt-get (or
aptitude). I'd love a magical incantation or rather guidance on how to
formulate one to remove this junk:
games
edutainment
education
science
f.
--
Felmon Davis
Every silver lining has a cloud.
27 Dec
27 Dec
1:18 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Friday 26 December 2014 10:32:50 pm you wrote:
greets!
I just did a dist-upgrade (to R14 Jessie; exegnu) somewhat
incorrectly, it made a lot of changes I hadn't intended but that's
user error for the most part. one error was not filtering out stuff I
consider junk, for instance 'games'.
I thought I'd try purging them the so-called easy way using kpackage
but when I get set to remove kdegames-trinity, it _looks_ like
tde-trinity will go along it. I know this has to do with
'meta-packages' but I don't understand the implications.
one gets the same result from apt-get.
I'm happy, happier in fact, to do all of this using apt-get (or
aptitude). I'd love a magical incantation or rather guidance on how to
formulate one to remove this junk:
games
edutainment
education
science
f.
The meta-package 'tde-trinity' includes quite a few other
'meta--packages' as
depends. Use 'apt-cache depends tde-trinity' to view them.
You can safely remove 'meta-packages'...start with 'tde-trinity' since it
pulls in a 'full' TDE desktop enviroment.
For a slim install I start with 'tdebase-trinity' , and add as needed.
--
Peace,
Greg
6:33 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014, Greg Madden wrote:
On Friday 26 December 2014 10:32:50 pm you wrote:
so this is precisely what I don't understand. if so much depends on a
meta-package, how can it be safe to remove the meta-package? there are
dependencies here that I definitely do not want to remove. does
removal of a meta-package leave the dependent apps intact?
greets!
I just did a dist-upgrade (to R14 Jessie; exegnu) somewhat
incorrectly, it made a lot of changes I hadn't intended but that's
user error for the most part. one error was not filtering out stuff I
consider junk, for instance 'games'.
I thought I'd try purging them the so-called easy way using kpackage
but when I get set to remove kdegames-trinity, it _looks_ like
tde-trinity will go along it. I know this has to do with
'meta-packages' but I don't understand the implications.
one gets the same result from apt-get.
I'm happy, happier in fact, to do all of this using apt-get (or
aptitude). I'd love a magical incantation or rather guidance on how to
formulate one to remove this junk:
games
edutainment
education
science
f.
The meta-package 'tde-trinity' includes quite a few other
'meta--packages' as
depends. Use 'apt-cache depends tde-trinity' to view them.
You can safely remove 'meta-packages'...start with 'tde-trinity' since
it
pulls in a 'full' TDE desktop enviroment. For a slim install I start with
'tdebase-trinity' , and add as needed.
this was intended to be an upgrade, not a fresh install. in fact,
after some fumbling, it worked and I have the apps I used to have
though I had to apt-get a couple of times for fresher versions.
--
Felmon Davis
The first is to ensure your partner understands that nature has root
privileges - nature doesn't have to make sense.
-- Telsa Gwynne
11:44 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
Felmon Davis composed on 2014-12-27 13:33 (UTC-0500):
> You can safely remove
'meta-packages'...start with 'tde-trinity' since it
> pulls in a 'full' TDE desktop enviroment.
so this is precisely what I don't understand. if
so much depends on a
meta-package, how can it be safe to remove the meta-package? there are
dependencies here that I definitely do not want to remove. does
removal of a meta-package leave the dependent apps intact?
Meta-packages decide what gets added to or included in an installation.
Choosing to remove one removes it only.
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
28 Dec
28 Dec
1:37 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014, Felix Miata wrote:
Felmon Davis composed on 2014-12-27 13:33 (UTC-0500):
alright then, I'll have a go.
you don't know me but I remember you from OS/2 days. best regards from
then and now!
F.
--
Felmon Davis
Life your life so that if someone says, "Be yourself," it's good
advice. -- Orben
> You can safely remove
'meta-packages'...start with 'tde-trinity' since it
> pulls in a 'full' TDE desktop enviroment.
so this is precisely what I don't understand.
if so much depends on a
meta-package, how can it be safe to remove the meta-package? there are
dependencies here that I definitely do not want to remove. does
removal of a meta-package leave the dependent apps intact?
Meta-packages decide what gets added to or included in an installation.
Choosing to remove one removes it only. 
12:19 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On 12/26/2014 11:32 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:
I thought I'd try purging them the so-called easy
way using kpackage but
when I get set to remove kdegames-trinity, it _looks_ like tde-trinity will
go along it. I know this has to do with 'meta-packages' but I don't
understand the implications.
What I do is, first make sure there are no autoremovable packages. Then
remove the metapackage. Then look at the packages that are now
autoremovable, and mark anything you want to keep as manually installed.
Then autoremove the rest.
--
PGP key: http://homestead-products.com/pubkey.htm
12:30 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 16:19:20 -0800
From: dan(a)homestead-products.com
To: trinity-users(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net
Subject: Re: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On 12/26/2014 11:32 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:
Hi,
If you want to use Synaptic, it will tell you which package would be removed if you
proceed to remove the metapackage. If it makes sense for you, click on okay and if it
wants to remove tons of packages, then something went wrong in packaging...
Hope it helps!
-Alexandre
I thought I'd try purging them the so-called
easy way using kpackage but
when I get set to remove kdegames-trinity, it _looks_ like tde-trinity will
go along it. I know this has to do with 'meta-packages' but I don't
understand the implications.
What I do is, first make sure there are no autoremovable packages. Then
remove the metapackage. Then look at the packages that are now
autoremovable, and mark anything you want to keep as manually installed.
Then autoremove the rest.
1:46 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014, Alexandre wrote:
I'd rather not use synaptic actually but I'll have a look. kpackage
showed the same set of dependencies on metapackages that was the
reason for my question.
I think I have the answer to the question now though. plus now if
something goes wrong, I can blame you guys!
<g>
F.
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 16:19:20 -0800
From: dan(a)homestead-products.com
To: trinity-users(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net
Subject: Re: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On 12/26/2014 11:32 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:
Hi,
If you want to use Synaptic, it will tell you which package would be
removed if you proceed to remove the metapackage. If it makes sense
for you, click on okay and if it wants to remove tons of packages,
then something went wrong in packaging... I thought I'd try purging them the so-called
easy way using kpackage but
when I get set to remove kdegames-trinity, it _looks_ like tde-trinity will
go along it. I know this has to do with 'meta-packages' but I don't
understand the implications.
What I do is, first make sure there are no autoremovable packages. Then
remove the metapackage. Then look at the packages that are now
autoremovable, and mark anything you want to keep as manually installed.
Then autoremove the rest.
Hope it helps!
-Alexandre
--
Felmon Davis
Some people need a good imaginary cure for their painful imaginary
ailment.
10:19 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sunday 28 December 2014 01:46:29 Felmon Davis wrote:
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014, Alexandre wrote:
I'd rather not use synaptic actually but I'll have a look. kpackage
showed the same set of dependencies on metapackages that was the
reason for my question.
aptitude gives you the same information and the chance to alter it. So, no
doubt, does apt-get.
It isn't that "something went wrong in packaging". It is that it and you
don't agree! But you can get round it as others have suggested.
Though, I must say it does seem odd that TDE should depend on kdegames!!!
Lisi
Date:
Sat, 27 Dec 2014 16:19:20 -0800
From: dan(a)homestead-products.com
To: trinity-users(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net
Subject: Re: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On 12/26/2014 11:32 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:
Hi,
If you want to use Synaptic, it will tell you which package would be
removed if you proceed to remove the metapackage. If it makes sense
for you, click on okay and if it wants to remove tons of packages,
then something went wrong in packaging... I thought I'd try purging them the so-called
easy way using kpackage
but when I get set to remove kdegames-trinity, it _looks_ like
tde-trinity will go along it. I know this has to do with
'meta-packages' but I don't understand the implications.
What I do is, first make sure there are no autoremovable packages. Then
remove the metapackage. Then look at the packages that are now
autoremovable, and mark anything you want to keep as manually installed.
Then autoremove the rest.
I think I have the answer to the question now though. plus now if
something goes wrong, I can blame you guys!
<g>
F.
> Hope it helps!
> -Alexandre
1:40 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014, Dan Youngquist wrote:
On 12/26/2014 11:32 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:
don't know how the marking as manually installed is done but I can
look it up.
thanks.
f.
--
Felmon Davis
Drive carefully. We are overstocked. -- sign in junkyard
I thought I'd try purging them the so-called
easy way using kpackage but
when I get set to remove kdegames-trinity, it _looks_ like tde-trinity will
go along it. I know this has to do with 'meta-packages' but I don't
understand the implications.
What I do is, first make sure there are no autoremovable packages. Then
remove the metapackage. Then look at the packages that are now
autoremovable, and mark anything you want to keep as manually installed.
Then autoremove the rest.
2:30 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014, Dan Youngquist wrote:
On 12/26/2014 11:32 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:
so here's an example. I do:
sudo apt-get remove korn-trinity
and I get a whole list of stuff to autoremove. I've included it after
my signature. some of this stuff I want to retain.
I have restored korn-trinity pending further illumination.
F.
--
Felmon Davis
amor-trinity artsbuilder-trinity atlantik-trinity
atlantikdesigner-trinity
blinken-trinity dcoprss-trinity edict eyesapplet-trinity
fifteenapplet-trinity
fonts-dustin gnuift gnuift-perl indi-trinity juk-trinity
kaboodle-trinity
kaddressbook-plugins-trinity kalarm-trinity kalzium-data-trinity
kalzium-trinity
kanagram-trinity kandy-trinity kanjidic kappfinder-trinity
karm-trinity
kasteroids-trinity kate-plugins-trinity kate-trinity katomic-trinity
kaudiocreator-trinity kbackgammon-trinity kbattleship-trinity
kblackbox-trinity
kbounce-trinity kbruch-trinity kbstate-trinity kcalc-trinity
kcharselect-trinity
kcoloredit-trinity kcron-trinity kdat-trinity kdf-trinity
kdict-trinity
kdvi-trinity kedit-trinity keduca-trinity kenolaba-trinity
kfax-trinity
kfaxview-trinity kfloppy-trinity kfouleggs-trinity kgamma-trinity
kgeography-data-trinity kgeography-trinity kget-trinity
kgoldrunner-trinity
kgpg-trinity khangman-trinity khexedit-trinity kig-trinity
kimagemapeditor-trinity kitchensync-trinity kiten-trinity
kjots-trinity
kjumpingcube-trinity klaptopdaemon-trinity klatin-trinity
klettres-data-trinity
klettres-trinity klickety-trinity klines-trinity klinkstatus-trinity
klipper-trinity kmag-trinity kmahjongg-trinity kmailcvt-trinity
kmenuedit-trinity
kmilo-trinity kmines-trinity kmix-trinity kmoon-trinity
kmousetool-trinity
kmouth-trinity kmplot-trinity kmrml-trinity knetwalk-trinity
knetworkconf-trinity
knewsticker-trinity knode-trinity kodo-trinity kolf-trinity
kolourpaint-trinity
kommander-trinity konquest-trinity konsolekalendar-trinity
kontact-trinity
kooka-trinity kopete-trinity kpackage-trinity kpat-trinity
kpercentage-trinity
kpf-trinity kpoker-trinity kpovmodeler-trinity kppp-trinity
krdc-trinity
krec-trinity kregexpeditor-trinity kreversi-trinity krfb-trinity
kruler-trinity
ksame-trinity ksayit-trinity kscd-trinity kshisen-trinity
ksig-trinity
ksim-trinity ksirc-trinity ksirtet-trinity ksmiletris-trinity
ksnake-trinity
ksnapshot-trinity ksokoban-trinity kspaceduel-trinity
kstars-data-trinity
kstars-trinity ksysguard-trinity ksysv-trinity kteatime-trinity
ktimer-trinity
ktip-trinity ktnef-trinity ktouch-trinity ktron-trinity
kttsd-trinity
ktuberling-trinity kturtle-trinity ktux-trinity kuser-trinity
kverbos-trinity
kview-trinity kviewshell-trinity kvoctrain-trinity kweather-trinity
kwifimanager-trinity kwordquiz-trinity kworldclock-trinity
kxsldbg-trinity
libarts1-audiofile-trinity libarts1-mpeglib-trinity
libarts1-xine-trinity
libboost-python1.55.0 libdb5.3++ libgadu3 libgnuift0c2a
libkgantt0-trinity
libkiten1-trinity libkscan1-trinity liblockdev1 libmeanwhile1
libmrml1c2a
libopensync0 libparse-yapp-perl libpoppler-tqt libprotobuf-c1
librss1-trinity
libtdeedu3-trinity libtdegames1-trinity libxine2
libxine2-misc-plugins
libxine2-plugins libxml-dom-perl libxml-handler-trees-perl
libxml-perl
libxml-regexp-perl libxml-writer-perl libxml-xql-perl lskat-trinity
mpeglib-trinity noatun-plugins-trinity noatun-trinity
quanta-data-trinity
quanta-trinity sudo-trinity superkaramba-trinity synaptic-trinity
tde-core-trinity tdeaccessibility-trinity
tdeaddons-tdefile-plugins-trinity
tdeaddons-trinity tdeadmin-tdefile-plugins-trinity tdeadmin-trinity
tdeartwork-emoticons-trinity tdeartwork-misc-trinity
tdeartwork-style-trinity
tdeartwork-theme-icon-trinity tdeartwork-theme-window-trinity
tdeartwork-trinity
tdebase-trinity tdednssd-trinity tdeedu-data-trinity tdeedu-trinity
tdefilereplace-trinity tdegames-card-data-trinity tdegames-trinity
tdegraphics-tdefile-plugins-trinity tdegraphics-trinity
tdeiconedit-trinity
tdelibs-trinity tdelirc-trinity tdemid-trinity
tdemultimedia-kappfinder-data-trinity
tdemultimedia-tdefile-plugins-trinity
tdemultimedia-trinity tdenetwork-tdefile-plugins-trinity
tdenetwork-trinity
tdepim-tdefile-plugins-trinity tdepim-wizards-trinity
tdeprint-trinity
tdescreensaver-trinity tdessh-trinity tdetoys-trinity
tdeutils-trinity
tdewalletmanager-trinity tdewallpapers-trinity tdewebdev-trinity
texlive-fonts-recommended ttf-kochi-gothic ttf-sjfonts twin4-trinity
I thought I'd try purging them the so-called
easy way using kpackage but
when I get set to remove kdegames-trinity, it _looks_ like tde-trinity will
go along it. I know this has to do with 'meta-packages' but I don't
understand the implications.
What I do is, first make sure there are no autoremovable packages. Then
remove the metapackage. Then look at the packages that are now
autoremovable, and mark anything you want to keep as manually installed.
Then autoremove the rest.
2:50 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On 12/27/2014 06:30 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:
so here's an example. I do:
sudo apt-get remove korn-trinity
and I get a whole list of stuff to autoremove. I've included it after my
signature. some of this stuff I want to retain.
Using Synaptic, you'd select any you want to keep, go to the Package menu,
and uncheck "Automatically installed". Or if you prefer, you can use
apt-mark to mark them as manually installed (see man apt-mark).
--
PGP key: http://homestead-products.com/pubkey.htm
5:58 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014, Dan Youngquist wrote:
On 12/27/2014 06:30 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:
found the 'man' on 'apt-mark' a bit obscure but this is a great tip so
I'll be exploring it.
everyone's referencing 'synaptic'; is it considered superior to
'kpackage'?
I prefer the 'apt-get'/'aptitude' in general but will use whatever
does the job effectively.
F.
--
Felmon Davis
What sane person could live in this world and not be crazy?
-- Ursula K. LeGuin
so here's an example. I do:
sudo apt-get remove korn-trinity
and I get a whole list of stuff to autoremove. I've included it after my
signature. some of this stuff I want to retain.
Using Synaptic, you'd select any you want to keep, go to the Package menu,
and uncheck "Automatically installed". Or if you prefer, you can use
apt-mark to mark them as manually installed (see man apt-mark).
8:22 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Saturday 27 December 2014 8:58:38 pm you wrote:
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014, Dan Youngquist wrote:
Not sure what OS exegnu is based on...
I use Debian, the cli tools, imho, are superior to any gui app..some time you
need to repair a system without X getting involved.
I keep learning more about the cli, apt-mark is new to me, apt-cache has lots
of useful options...you can answer alot of your own questions with these
tools. The key s knowing what they are.
--
Peace,
Greg
On 12/27/2014 06:30 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:
found the 'man' on 'apt-mark' a bit obscure but this is a great tip so
I'll be exploring it.
everyone's referencing 'synaptic'; is it considered superior to
'kpackage'?
I prefer the 'apt-get'/'aptitude' in general but will use whatever
does the job effectively.
F. so here's an example. I do:
sudo apt-get remove korn-trinity
and I get a whole list of stuff to autoremove. I've included it after my
signature. some of this stuff I want to retain.
Using Synaptic, you'd select any you want to keep, go to the Package
menu, and uncheck "Automatically installed". Or if you prefer, you can
use apt-mark to mark them as manually installed (see man apt-mark).
9:01 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014, Greg Madden wrote:
On Saturday 27 December 2014 8:58:38 pm you wrote:
I don't like clicking around on a gui either. for one thing, I find
scrolling around clumsy and it all seems kind of unnecessarily
indirect: if I know the words, why use pictures?
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014, Dan Youngquist wrote:
Not sure what OS exegnu is based on...
I use Debian, the cli tools, imho, are superior to any gui app..some time you
need to repair a system without X getting involved. On 12/27/2014 06:30 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:
found the 'man' on 'apt-mark' a bit obscure but this is a great tip so
I'll be exploring it.
everyone's referencing 'synaptic'; is it considered superior to
'kpackage'?
I prefer the 'apt-get'/'aptitude' in general but will use whatever
does the job effectively.
F. so here's an example. I do:
sudo apt-get remove korn-trinity
and I get a whole list of stuff to autoremove. I've included it after my
signature. some of this stuff I want to retain.
Using Synaptic, you'd select any you want to keep, go to the Package
menu, and uncheck "Automatically installed". Or if you prefer, you can
use apt-mark to mark them as manually installed (see man apt-mark). I keep learning more about the cli, apt-mark is new
to me, apt-cache has lots
of useful options...you can answer alot of your own questions with these
tools. The key s knowing what they are.
indeed. one has to know the words (= commands).
having an 'interesting' time with this upgrade though....
F.
--
Felmon Davis
Understanding is always the understanding of a smaller problem
in relation to a bigger problem.
-- P. D. Ouspensky
9:39 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On 12/28/2014 04:01 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014, Greg Madden wrote:
........if I know the pictures, why
use words ?
grin grin
On Saturday 27 December 2014 8:58:38 pm you
wrote:
I don't like clicking around on a gui either. for one thing, I find
scrolling around clumsy and it all seems kind of unnecessarily
indirect: if I know the words, why use pictures?
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014, Dan Youngquist wrote:
Not sure what OS exegnu is based on...
I use Debian, the cli tools, imho, are superior to any gui app..some
time you
need to repair a system without X getting involved. On 12/27/2014 06:30 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:
> so here's an example. I do:
>
> sudo apt-get remove korn-trinity
>
> and I get a whole list of stuff to autoremove. I've included it
> after my
> signature. some of this stuff I want to retain.
Using Synaptic, you'd select any you want to keep, go to the Package
menu, and uncheck "Automatically installed". Or if you prefer, you
can
use apt-mark to mark them as manually installed (see man apt-mark).
found the 'man' on 'apt-mark' a bit obscure but this is a great tip so
I'll be exploring it.
everyone's referencing 'synaptic'; is it considered superior to
'kpackage'?
I prefer the 'apt-get'/'aptitude' in general but will use whatever
does the job effectively.
F. I keep learning more about the cli, apt-mark is
new to me, apt-cache
has lots
of useful options...you can answer alot of your own questions with these
tools. The key s knowing what they are.
indeed. one has to know the words (= commands).
having an 'interesting' time with this upgrade though....
F.
>>if I know the words, why use pictures?
10:24 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sunday 28 December 2014 09:39:22 Tony Wolfs wrote:
On 12/28/2014 04:01 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:
Why do GUI users always feel the need to brow-beat, cajole or otherwise push
everyone into using the GUI? ;-) Each to his own!
Lisi
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014, Greg Madden wrote:
........if I know the pictures, why use words ?
grin grin On Saturday 27 December 2014 8:58:38 pm you
wrote:
I don't like clicking around on a gui either. for one thing, I find
scrolling around clumsy and it all seems kind of unnecessarily
indirect: if I know the words, why use pictures?
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014, Dan Youngquist wrote:
> On 12/27/2014 06:30 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:
>> so here's an example. I do:
>>
>> sudo apt-get remove korn-trinity
>>
>> and I get a whole list of stuff to autoremove. I've included it
>> after my
>> signature. some of this stuff I want to retain.
>
> Using Synaptic, you'd select any you want to keep, go to the Package
> menu, and uncheck "Automatically installed". Or if you prefer, you
> can
> use apt-mark to mark them as manually installed (see man apt-mark).
found the 'man' on 'apt-mark' a bit obscure but this is a great tip so
I'll be exploring it.
everyone's referencing 'synaptic'; is it considered superior to
'kpackage'?
I prefer the 'apt-get'/'aptitude' in general but will use whatever
does the job effectively.
F.
Not sure what OS exegnu is based on...
I use Debian, the cli tools, imho, are superior to any gui app..some
time you
need to repair a system without X getting involved. I keep learning more about the cli, apt-mark is
new to me, apt-cache
has lots
of useful options...you can answer alot of your own questions with these
tools. The key s knowing what they are.
indeed. one has to know the words (= commands).
having an 'interesting' time with this upgrade though....
F.
>>if I know the words, why use pictures?
10:33 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sun, 28 Dec 2014, Lisi Reisz wrote:
On Sunday 28 December 2014 09:39:22 Tony Wolfs wrote:
Tony is just joking. I'm sure that at tea time he doesn't pull out a
picture book!
and that's part of the serious point. if I know what I want, I can
just say it (= type the command). even if I know the meaning of the
pretty pictures, I have start the app, click around, drop down a menu,
scroll here or there, blah, blah.
but yes, chacun a son gout or whatever. and sometimes the picture way
is better, for instance, sorting a bunch of thumbnail files.
F.
--
Felmon Davis
Computers are unreliable, but humans are even more unreliable.
Any system which depends on human reliability is unreliable.
-- Gilb
........if I know the pictures, why use words ?
grin grin
Why do GUI users always feel the need to brow-beat, cajole or otherwise push
everyone into using the GUI? ;-) Each to his own!
Lisi
10:51 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sunday 28 December 2014 10:33:47 Felmon Davis wrote:
On Sun, 28 Dec 2014, Lisi Reisz wrote:
No, I know. And it wasn't aimed just at Tony. In fact, it wasn't aimed
primarily at Tony.
But I was making a serious point too. Sometimes the CLI is faster and more
efficient. Sometimes it is just different. But I will concede there are
times when the GUI is much safer. Here is a good example of what I mean:
something that is very fast and (too) easy on the CLI - and much safer on the
GUI!
# rm -r /*
Lisi
On Sunday 28 December 2014 09:39:22 Tony Wolfs
wrote:
Tony is just joking. I'm sure that at tea time he doesn't pull out a
picture book! ........if I know the pictures, why use words ?
grin grin
Why do GUI users always feel the need to brow-beat, cajole or otherwise
push everyone into using the GUI? ;-) Each to his own!
Lisi 
1:55 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sunday 28 December 2014 11.51:22 Lisi Reisz wrote:
But I was making a serious point too. Sometimes the
CLI is faster and more
efficient. Sometimes it is just different. But I will concede there are
times when the GUI is much safer. Here is a good example of what I mean:
something that is very fast and (too) easy on the CLI - and much safer on
the GUI!
# rm -r /*
Lisi
Being a user of both - and having to help a lot of *basic* users (no harm
meant, just a truth) the central point is "if you know the words".
To use cli you need not only to know the words, but their sequence. Add to
that that (often) you can get a lot done (including damage) without getting
a warning...
I tend to prefer cli for what I know well how to do (partitioning is a good
example) but GUI for what I don't master (stupidly, creating a symbolic link.
I never remember the right sequence).
What's stupid is that "modern" OS (Windows or MacOS) have labeled cli
as "complicated" and "old fashioned", just as a verbose startup. Only
those
who understand how their system starts (which excludes most users of
previously mentionned OSes) know how usefull all this verbosity is.
Thierry
2:20 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sunday 28 December 2014 11.51:22 Lisi Reisz wrote:
Good point!
But I was making a serious point too. Sometimes
the CLI is faster and more
efficient. Sometimes it is just different. But I will concede there are
times when the GUI is much safer. Here is a good example of what I mean:
something that is very fast and (too) easy on the CLI - and much safer on
the GUI!
# rm -r /*
Lisi
Being a user of both - and having to help a lot of *basic* users (no harm
meant, just a truth) the central point is "if you know the words".
To use cli you need not only to know the words, but their sequence. Add to
that that (often) you can get a lot done (including damage) without getting
a warning...
I tend to prefer cli for what I know well how to do (partitioning is a good
example) but GUI for what I don't master (stupidly, creating a symbolic link.
I never remember the right sequence).
What's stupid is that "modern" OS (Windows or MacOS) have labeled cli
as "complicated" and "old fashioned", just as a verbose startup. Only
those
who understand how their system starts (which excludes most users of
previously mentionned OSes) know how usefull all this verbosity is.
Thierry
Hi,
What I'm trying to do is to help users by providing tips on tools that I am
comfortable with and that I know how to use. Would you prefer that I give false tips for
using tools that I am not comfortable with just to satisfy your taste for CLI Lisi?
-Alexandre
7:12 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sun, 28 Dec 2014, Alexandre wrote:
not sure I understand the point of the question you are posing but I
tend to think the issue raised in this digression is settled:
(a) some generally prefer cli, some generally prefer gui.
(b) cli has advantages for some purposes, gui has advantages for some
purposes.
at this level of generality not sure much more is to be said. (a)
seems indisputable. there are totalitarians but most concede the
general point about (b) but may disagree about where the advantages
lie. but that gets into specifics.
maybe also off-topic.
F.
--
Felmon Davis
optimist, n:
A bagpiper with a beeper.
On Sunday 28 December 2014 11.51:22 Lisi Reisz
wrote:
Good point!
But I was making a serious point too. Sometimes
the CLI is faster and more
efficient. Sometimes it is just different. But I will concede there are
times when the GUI is much safer. Here is a good example of what I mean:
something that is very fast and (too) easy on the CLI - and much safer on
the GUI!
# rm -r /*
Lisi
Being a user of both - and having to help a lot of *basic* users (no harm
meant, just a truth) the central point is "if you know the words".
To use cli you need not only to know the words, but their sequence. Add to
that that (often) you can get a lot done (including damage) without getting
a warning...
I tend to prefer cli for what I know well how to do (partitioning is a good
example) but GUI for what I don't master (stupidly, creating a symbolic link.
I never remember the right sequence).
What's stupid is that "modern" OS (Windows or MacOS) have labeled cli
as "complicated" and "old fashioned", just as a verbose startup. Only
those
who understand how their system starts (which excludes most users of
previously mentionned OSes) know how usefull all this verbosity is.
Thierry
Hi,
What I'm trying to do is to help users by providing tips on tools that I am
comfortable with and that I know how to use. Would you prefer that I give false tips for
using tools that I am not comfortable with just to satisfy your taste for CLI Lisi?
-Alexandre
29 Dec
29 Dec
12:55 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sunday 28 December 2014 13:55:50 Thierry de Coulon wrote:
On Sunday 28 December 2014 11.51:22 Lisi Reisz wrote:
Well put. And for something quick and simple the GUI can even be faster if
one is already in it and would have to change to the CLI.
Lisi
But I was making a serious point too. Sometimes
the CLI is faster and
more efficient. Sometimes it is just different. But I will concede
there are times when the GUI is much safer. Here is a good example of
what I mean: something that is very fast and (too) easy on the CLI - and
much safer on the GUI!
# rm -r /*
Lisi
Being a user of both - and having to help a lot of *basic* users (no harm
meant, just a truth) the central point is "if you know the words".
To use cli you need not only to know the words, but their sequence. Add to
that that (often) you can get a lot done (including damage) without
getting a warning...
I tend to prefer cli for what I know well how to do (partitioning is a good
example) but GUI for what I don't master (stupidly, creating a symbolic
link. I never remember the right sequence).
What's stupid is that "modern" OS (Windows or MacOS) have labeled cli
as "complicated" and "old fashioned", just as a verbose startup. Only
those
who understand how their system starts (which excludes most users of
previously mentionned OSes) know how usefull all this verbosity is.
12:43 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sunday 28 December 2014 1:51:22 am you wrote:
On Sunday 28 December 2014 10:33:47 Felmon Davis
wrote:
my example is drag n drop file management in a gui , I usually do not do this,
I have 'accidently' dropped a file and it takes to long find it :-) '
krusader et al are compelling though.
--
Peace,
Greg
On Sun, 28 Dec 2014, Lisi Reisz wrote:
No, I know. And it wasn't aimed just at Tony. In fact, it wasn't aimed
primarily at Tony.
But I was making a serious point too. Sometimes the CLI is faster and more
efficient. Sometimes it is just different. But I will concede there are
times when the GUI is much safer. Here is a good example of what I mean:
something that is very fast and (too) easy on the CLI - and much safer on
the GUI!
# rm -r /*
Lisi On Sunday 28 December 2014 09:39:22 Tony Wolfs
wrote:
Tony is just joking. I'm sure that at tea time he doesn't pull out a
picture book! ........if I know the pictures, why use words ?
grin grin
Why do GUI users always feel the need to brow-beat, cajole or otherwise
push everyone into using the GUI? ;-) Each to his own!
Lisi
28 Dec
28 Dec
10:21 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] removing games and other cruff.
On Sunday 28 December 2014 08:22:08 Greg Madden wrote:
On Saturday 27 December 2014 8:58:38 pm you wrote:
Debian.
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014, Dan Youngquist wrote:
Not sure what OS exegnu is based on... On 12/27/2014 06:30 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:
found the 'man' on 'apt-mark' a bit obscure but this is a great tip so
I'll be exploring it.
everyone's referencing 'synaptic'; is it considered superior to
'kpackage'?
I prefer the 'apt-get'/'aptitude' in general but will use whatever
does the job effectively.
F. so here's an example. I do:
sudo apt-get remove korn-trinity
and I get a whole list of stuff to autoremove. I've included it after
my signature. some of this stuff I want to retain.
Using Synaptic, you'd select any you want to keep, go to the Package
menu, and uncheck "Automatically installed". Or if you prefer, you can
use apt-mark to mark them as manually installed (see man apt-mark). I use Debian, the cli tools, imho, are superior to any
gui app..some time
you need to repair a system without X getting involved.
Hear, hear.
I keep learning more about the cli, apt-mark is new to me, apt-cache has
lots of useful options...you can answer alot of your own questions with
these tools. The key s knowing what they are.
Agreed!
Lisi
3645
days inactive
3647
days old
24 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Alexandre -
Dan Youngquist -
Felix Miata -
Felmon Davis -
Greg Madden -
Lisi Reisz -
Thierry de Coulon -
Tony Wolfs