Hello all,
I understand this has nothing to do with trinity, but there seem to be people on this list that understand this stuff more than I do.
I've got an older machine (quad core) that I wanted to convert in a network backup. It runs Jessie and mounts an nfs share on my main machine so that I can copy important files.
The problem occurs when I transfer bigger quantities of data (I mean several GB, mostly in smaller files of a few hundred MB):
- If the server runs Debian stretch, everything is fine.
- If the server runs AntiX 17, the copy sooner or later hangs because the server lost the network (the message I got is err_network_changed). there may be another way but I solve the problem by restarting teh machine.
Now, the question is this: AntiX 17 is based on stretch. It does not run systemd, nor does it network manager. Network configuration is done with ceni (method static, class auto).
The exports file is the same in both cases (copied from Debian to AntiX).
If anyone has a clue to give me where to look for this difference in behaviour, I'd be glad! I like AntiX because of no systemd, but...
Thierry
On Sun, 2 Sep 2018 15:57:57 +0200 Thierry de Coulon tcoulon@decoulon.ch wrote:
I understand this has nothing to do with trinity, but there seem to be people on this list that understand this stuff more than I do.
I've got an older machine (quad core) that I wanted to convert in a network backup. It runs Jessie and mounts an nfs share on my main machine so that I can copy important files.
The problem occurs when I transfer bigger quantities of data (I mean several GB, mostly in smaller files of a few hundred MB):
If the server runs Debian stretch, everything is fine.
If the server runs AntiX 17, the copy sooner or later hangs because the
server lost the network (the message I got is err_network_changed). there may be another way but I solve the problem by restarting teh machine.
Now, the question is this: AntiX 17 is based on stretch. It does not run systemd, nor does it network manager. Network configuration is done with ceni (method static, class auto).
The exports file is the same in both cases (copied from Debian to AntiX).
If anyone has a clue to give me where to look for this difference in behaviour, I'd be glad! I like AntiX because of no systemd, but...
I have no idea what you problems with AntiX is, but thats what you get for running weird distros instead of debian :)
Now, i am still puzzled why people think that stretch must run systemd?!! just install sysv-rc and sysvinit-core and you have a stretch running sysv-init.
On Sunday 02 September 2018 17.16:48 Nick Koretsky wrote:
Now, i am still puzzled why people think that stretch must run systemd?!! just install sysv-rc and sysvinit-core and you have a stretch running sysv-init.
I've never dared to try but I will,as sson as I've made a backup (by security). I alway thought it would be more complicated than just installing two packages (if it is, why do they need Devuan?).
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 14:42:05 +0200 Thierry de Coulon tcoulon@decoulon.ch wrote:
On Sunday 02 September 2018 17.16:48 Nick Koretsky wrote:
Now, i am still puzzled why people think that stretch must run systemd?!! just install sysv-rc and sysvinit-core and you have a stretch running sysv-init.
I've never dared to try but I will,as sson as I've made a backup (by security). I alway thought it would be more complicated than just installing two packages (if it is, why do they need Devuan?).
Because ideology. They want to get rid of systemd and all its dependencies completely, not just avoid running it as pid 1.
On Wednesday 05 September 2018 05:58:00 Nick Koretsky wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 14:42:05 +0200
Thierry de Coulon tcoulon@decoulon.ch wrote:
On Sunday 02 September 2018 17.16:48 Nick Koretsky wrote:
Now, i am still puzzled why people think that stretch must run systemd?!! just install sysv-rc and sysvinit-core and you have a stretch running sysv-init.
I've never dared to try but I will,as sson as I've made a backup (by security). I alway thought it would be more complicated than just installing two packages (if it is, why do they need Devuan?).
Because ideology. They want to get rid of systemd and all its dependencies completely, not just avoid running it as pid 1.
My 2 cents worth of opinion here, if it matters. I did try AntiX, and it was pretty nice in a lot of ways. (In fact, I do believe I'm the one who noted it here, and got some others trying it.) However, AntiX did (or didn't do) a few things that rubbed me the wrong way: 1) Permissions were changed to some weird groups, and the setup messed up how I organize places in my own system. 2) My internal hard drives were not recognized on the first installation, and there was no way to add them through the partition manager. (I realize that I could have added them later, but I use special mount points, with names to make my various drives instantly recognizable to human beings - e.g., the Present Author - so that I don't have to access them by long UUIDs. (It's almost as though the developers of some newer distros cannot imagine that there are people "out there" - such as, e.g., the Present Author - who still run desktop computers. Soon, perhaps, everything will be designed around mobile phones, tablets, etc., and even laptop computers will be obsolete.) Well, so I may still try out AntiX again on an old laptop that I have here, but it's not the thing for myself right now; even though it does have some good features.
I also tried for a long time to run Debian without systemd as PID 1 (recommended by deloptes, I believe). I recommend the steps provided in that earlier thread. Again, however, it seemed like I was fighting an uphill battle, and always ended up with an unstable system, and was reinstalling practically every other day.
At last, however, I have gone over to Devuan net install, and all my problems have *magically* disappeared; which is to say, my system now runs like I've always expected that it ought to do, and I've had no problems now for about a month or six weeks. (I'm still running Jessie, but am about to move on to Ascii [= Debian Stretch], once I feel confident that this is really True Love, the Holy Grail, the secret Elixir, and all that.)
I did try net install before, but had some problems with networking. At first, I thought that it was because with Devuan I was using all free software, no proprietary crap; however, the problem turned out to be with the network itself where I live. One has to wait rather a long time for all the packages to download; and after an hour or two, my network would disconnect me. All that I needed to do was to go back in the menu to the *configure network* option, and I was reconnected (and I needed to do this a couple times); then I proceeded with the installation.
By the way, some other issues that I was having (such as using youtube-dl and other such software over a proxy) have also disappeared. When I was running Debian and tried to use youtube-dl in this manner, my system would hang, and suddenly I could do nothing for 20-25 minutes, until at last my file started downloading. With Devuan, though, everything runs normally again, with no issues whatsoever.
Running Devuan with TDE is as close as I can get to running Hardy Heron 8.04.2 with the old KDE3 (the only desktop I've ever loved). I pretty much have my old system back again, only better!
I've waxed on, I know, and got both prolix and verbose, and no doubt have cost several pennies more in bandwidth; but I wanted to direct others to the Devuan net install discs. They fit on a CD, and you can choose whatever you want (or don't want) to install. I recommend Mate over LXDE, though, for choice of desktop, as for me, at least, it interferes less with my own setup.
Also I am thinking of some problems mentioned by Gene Heskett. I seem to recall that he wanted to stick with Wheezy, but why run a system for which the security patches are always out-of-date?
There now, I've said my piece.
Bill
Thierry de Coulon wrote:
I've never dared to try but I will,as sson as I've made a backup (by security). I alway thought it would be more complicated than just installing two packages (if it is, why do they need Devuan?).
no need to backup everything - just make sure your grub entries are OK
I did it on all 3+ machines I use many moons ago. It works great. I had just once problem with systemd made itself proc #1 after upgrade.
I think the solution was to pin it
$ cat /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd-sysv Package: systemd-sysv Pin: release o=Debian Pin-Priority: -1
Anyway - I would not upgrade and reboot my server from remote.
regards
said deloptes:
| I think the solution was to pin it | | $ cat /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd-sysv | Package: systemd-sysv | Pin: release o=Debian | Pin-Priority: -1 | | Anyway - I would not upgrade and reboot my server from remote.
/etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd
--snip-- Package: systemd Pin: origin "" Pin-Priority: -1
Package: *systemd* Pin: origin "" Pin-Priority: -1
Package: systemd:amd64 Pin: origin "" Pin-Priority: -1 --snip--
Am Mittwoch, 5. September 2018 schrieb Thierry de Coulon:
On Sunday 02 September 2018 17.16:48 Nick Koretsky wrote:
Now, i am still puzzled why people think that stretch must run systemd?!! just install sysv-rc and sysvinit-core and you have a stretch running sysv-init.
I've never dared to try but I will,as sson as I've made a backup (by security). I alway thought it would be more complicated than just installing two packages (if it is, why do they need Devuan?).
you'll know when you try to remove systemd :-)
On Sunday 02 September 2018 17.16:48 Nick Koretsky wrote:
Now, i am still puzzled why people think that stretch must run systemd?!! just install sysv-rc and sysvinit-core and you have a stretch running sysv-init.
I took my time but it's done: all my Debian install are now back to sysv-init.
Thanks Nick
Thierry
Hi!
Am Sonntag, 2. September 2018 schrieb Thierry de Coulon:
Hello all,
I understand this has nothing to do with trinity, but there seem to be people on this list that understand this stuff more than I do.
I've got an older machine (quad core) that I wanted to convert in a network backup. It runs Jessie and mounts an nfs share on my main machine so that I can copy important files.
The problem occurs when I transfer bigger quantities of data (I mean several GB, mostly in smaller files of a few hundred MB):
If the server runs Debian stretch, everything is fine.
If the server runs AntiX 17, the copy sooner or later hangs because the
server lost the network (the message I got is err_network_changed). there may be another way but I solve the problem by restarting teh machine.
Now, the question is this: AntiX 17 is based on stretch. It does not run systemd, nor does it network manager. Network configuration is done with ceni (method static, class auto).
The exports file is the same in both cases (copied from Debian to AntiX).
If anyone has a clue to give me where to look for this difference in behaviour, I'd be glad! I like AntiX because of no systemd, but...
What does dmesg say after the connection is lost?
On Sunday 02 September 2018 18.59:35 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
What does dmesg say after the connection is lost?
Of course after hanging all Sunday now it does not... I'll come back with the answer to you question if it hangs again...
Thierry
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deloptes -
dep -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
Nick Koretsky -
Stefan Krusche -
Thierry de Coulon -
William Morder