Hi all,
the fifth service on the migration list is Bugzilla. For the Bugzilla, the situation is significantly different, because we need to discuss here before any steps are taken.
-- Migration status --
Bugzilla is on Tim's original infrastructure. Therefore, no one else can manage the current instance. And there are various issues that we are currently unable to resolve, such as problem with login when https is used. So it definitely needs some change.
-- What needs to be done --
First of all, we need to discuss and decide whether we want to continue using Bugzilla.
As mentioned earlier, TGW is now used as a comprehensive workspace. And TGW contains Issues that can be used instead of bug reports in a separate Bugzilla. There are several benefits to using Issues. Above all, Issues are well integrated into the development workflow. It also provides good comfort - for example, it is possible to use comment formatting to make it more readable and clear. At the same time, it seems like a good idea to use one problem reporting tool rather than two independent ones.
If we find a consensus that there is no significant reason to use Bugzilla, we need to decide how to deal with existing bug reports. There are two options:
1) Migrate Bugzilla to a new instance, which will be locked for adding new bug reports. This can be done more easily. However, the problem remains that there will continue to be two places for users to look for problem reports.
2) Migrate bug reports from Bugzilla into Issues in TGW and then stop Bugzilla completely. Although it is likely to be more difficult to do, I think it would be a better solution.
-- More ideas and suggestions?
What is your opinion on Bugzilla migration? Do you have any other ideas and suggestions?
Cheers
Slávek Banko via tde-users composed on 2020-10-13 03:07 (UTC+0200):
First of all, we need to discuss and decide whether we want to continue using Bugzilla.
Mozilla's bug tracking software is the best bar none. The original. Lots of thought over more than two decades has gone into building into what it is.
I have nothing but trouble no matter what I'm trying to do with all the other trackers.
Google can't even tell me what a TGW tracker is, thinks it's all about golf.
On Monday 12 October 2020 08:33:47 pm Felix Miata wrote:
Slávek Banko via tde-users composed on 2020-10-13 03:07 (UTC+0200):
First of all, we need to discuss and decide whether we want to continue using Bugzilla.
Mozilla's bug tracking software is the best bar none. The original. Lots of thought over more than two decades has gone into building into what it is.
I have nothing but trouble no matter what I'm trying to do with all the other trackers.
Google can't even tell me what a TGW tracker is, thinks it's all about golf.
Felix brings up a point I wouldn’t have considered, how usable the software is by the primary users of the software.
The bug reporting software won’t be used very often by most people who are only on this, the users list. So asking us seems, to me, to be the wrong people to ask.
My opinion? You developers decide. What’s best for you?
We the users will basically have to learn the software the first time we want to create a bug report. So, what software that is, seems pretty much irrelevant to us???
I guess all I’d ask for is a clearly labeled, “Noobs start here” link so if/when I do need to file a bug report, I have a well defined checklist of what exactly to do to file it so it’s useful. And really well defined! Start with the basics like, “install package debug-xyz,” “run the program by ???,” “copy/paste the output of xyz,” “stuff!”
Best, Michael
On 2020/10/13 09:57 AM, Michael via tde-users wrote:
My opinion? You developers decide. What’s best for you?
We the users will basically have to learn the software the first time we want to create a bug report. So, what software that is, seems pretty much irrelevant to us???
I guess all I’d ask for is a clearly labeled, “Noobs start here” link so if/when I do need to file a bug report, I have a well defined checklist of what exactly to do to file it so it’s useful. And really well defined! Start with the basics like, “install package debug-xyz,” “run the program by ???,” “copy/paste the output of xyz,” “stuff!”
That is a very good point Michael. The change non only refers to the system used, but also on how it is integrated in TDE code (as in "Report a bug" link in the applications), so it needs to be carefully thought over.
As for TGW, it stands for TDE Gitea Workspace, which has been the main hub for TDE development since 2018 as indicated in all the release notes since R14.0.6 onwards. https://mirror.git.trinitydesktop.org/gitea
User guide on how to use TGW is here: https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/TDE_Gitea_Workspace
To report a bug on TGW, you just need a web browser an follow the steps explained here: https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/TDE_Gitea_Workspace#To_report_bugs_and_sugge...
Cheers Michele
Dne út 13. října 2020 Michael via tde-users napsal(a):
On Monday 12 October 2020 08:33:47 pm Felix Miata wrote:
Slávek Banko via tde-users composed on 2020-10-13 03:07 (UTC+0200):
First of all, we need to discuss and decide whether we want to continue using Bugzilla.
Mozilla's bug tracking software is the best bar none. The original. Lots of thought over more than two decades has gone into building into what it is.
I have nothing but trouble no matter what I'm trying to do with all the other trackers.
Google can't even tell me what a TGW tracker is, thinks it's all about golf.
Felix brings up a point I wouldn’t have considered, how usable the software is by the primary users of the software.
The bug reporting software won’t be used very often by most people who are only on this, the users list. So asking us seems, to me, to be the wrong people to ask.
My opinion? You developers decide. What’s best for you?
As Michele mentioned, we have been using TDE Gitea Workspace (TGW) since May 2018 and it has proven to be very successful.
Because Issues is an integral part of Gitea, it is a very well integrated part of the development process and therefore as developers we prefer Issues in TGW. After all, pull-requests are also processed as Issues.
Therefore, it is certain that Issues in TGW will be used, and the question is, is there any really good reason to use Bugzilla as a second system for the same purpose? I'm aware that Bugzilla has more years of experience with bug tracking systems, while Issues in TGW may be less mature, but, sorry Felix, that's not enough reason.
We the users will basically have to learn the software the first time we want to create a bug report. So, what software that is, seems pretty much irrelevant to us???
I guess all I’d ask for is a clearly labeled, “Noobs start here” link so if/when I do need to file a bug report, I have a well defined checklist of what exactly to do to file it so it’s useful. And really well defined! Start with the basics like, “install package debug-xyz,” “run the program by ???,” “copy/paste the output of xyz,” “stuff!”
Michele posted a link to a wiki page with instructions. However, here it may be a good idea to split this one page into multiple pages according to purpose - common information, for users and for developers. From the previous discussion about the web server, here is a plan to improve the Get Involved page so that it contains essential information and links - instructions for reporting issues are one of these things.
As Michele mentioned, here we will also have to change the integration into TDE applications - the Report a bug/enhancement menu item. So more work will be needed here.
Best, Michael ____________________________________________________
Thank you for your opinion! That was helpful.
Cheers
On Tuesday 13 of October 2020 03:07:10 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Hi all,
the fifth service on the migration list is Bugzilla. For the Bugzilla, the situation is significantly different, because we need to discuss here before any steps are taken.
-- Migration status --
Bugzilla is on Tim's original infrastructure. Therefore, no one else can manage the current instance. And there are various issues that we are currently unable to resolve, such as problem with login when https is used. So it definitely needs some change.
-- What needs to be done --
First of all, we need to discuss and decide whether we want to continue using Bugzilla.
As mentioned earlier, TGW is now used as a comprehensive workspace. And TGW contains Issues that can be used instead of bug reports in a separate Bugzilla. There are several benefits to using Issues. Above all, Issues are well integrated into the development workflow. It also provides good comfort - for example, it is possible to use comment formatting to make it more readable and clear. At the same time, it seems like a good idea to use one problem reporting tool rather than two independent ones.
If we find a consensus that there is no significant reason to use Bugzilla, we need to decide how to deal with existing bug reports. There are two options:
- Migrate Bugzilla to a new instance, which will be locked for adding
new bug reports. This can be done more easily. However, the problem remains that there will continue to be two places for users to look for problem reports.
- Migrate bug reports from Bugzilla into Issues in TGW and then stop
Bugzilla completely. Although it is likely to be more difficult to do, I think it would be a better solution.
-- More ideas and suggestions?
What is your opinion on Bugzilla migration? Do you have any other ideas and suggestions?
Cheers
Hi all,
thank you for your feedback. Since it has been a long time since opinions and arguments have been made here, I will assume that we can decide.
The arguments for keeping Bugzilla made here do not seem convincing enough. Therefore, according to proposal 2, the goal we will be heading towards will be the full replacement of the Bugzilla by issues in TGW.
The whole process will take some time - from a change of integration to report bugs in the applications to the migration of existing bug reports to issues in TGW, so for some time there will still be a concurrence of Bugzilla and issues in TGW. In any case, it is recommended to create issues in TGW instead of bug reports in Bugzilla.
Cheers
Slávek Banko via tde-users composed on 2020-11-07 01:21 (UTC+0100):
The arguments for keeping Bugzilla made here do not seem convincing enough. Therefore, according to proposal 2, the goal we will be heading towards will be the full replacement of the Bugzilla by issues in TGW.
One more, FWIW. Since searching for existing bugs on trackers other than Bugzilla and actually finding what I'm looking for is so rare, most likely I won't be bothering to search when I find a problem, but simply file a report and let others figure out if it's a duplicate or not. Historically I've tried to keep triagers from having to do this, since triage is what I used to do a lot of.
On 2020/11/07 01:18 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
One more, FWIW. Since searching for existing bugs on trackers other than Bugzilla and actually finding what I'm looking for is so rare, most likely I won't be bothering to search when I find a problem, but simply file a report and let others figure out if it's a duplicate or not. Historically I've tried to keep triagers from having to do this, since triage is what I used to do a lot of. --
Hi Felix, I do like bugszilla as well, it has some positive points. But it feels like an elephant compared to the flexibility offered by Issues on TGW. We plan to preserve history by migrating existing bugs to TGW so info won't be lost. Search for Issues on TGW is quite simple and comprehensive, that is one of the factor we put lot of attention to. You pretty much login to TGW, go here (https://mirror.git.trinitydesktop.org/gitea/issues) and type what you want to search for in the search box. You can also do localized searches per module if you repeat the process on a specific repository.
Maintaining two bug reporting systems is confusing for the users and a burden for the infrastructure and the maintenance team.
Cheers Michele
Michele Calgaro via tde-users composed on 2020-11-07 14:07 (UTC+0800):
Search for Issues on TGW is quite simple and comprehensive, that is one of the factor we put lot of attention to.
Time will tell. Simplicity is the usual problem with non-Bugzilla trackers - limited or non-existent ability to narrow a search to a period or user or group or package but more particularly a combination two or more of the above and other criteria.
On Saturday 07 of November 2020 08:19:47 Felix Miata wrote:
Michele Calgaro via tde-users composed on 2020-11-07 14:07 (UTC+0800):
Search for Issues on TGW is quite simple and comprehensive, that is one of the factor we put lot of attention to.
Time will tell. Simplicity is the usual problem with non-Bugzilla trackers - limited or non-existent ability to narrow a search to a period or user or group or package but more particularly a combination two or more of the above and other criteria.
Yes, of course, Bugzilla has more extensive search options, because there are many more items in the search form ... on the other hand, there are items that are rarely used and items that users do not fill in correctly. The question is what items are really useful and whether TGW provides sufficient options.
One example of an item that is significantly different between Bugzilla and TGW is the Component selection.
In Bugzilla, this is just one of the form items, for which we have to maintain a list of offered items. The current list is incomplete - there are no individual applications, so the usefulness of this item is reduced for now. At the same time, adding items would probably result in a long, not very clear list.
In TGW, the approach is quite the opposite. Each component is a GIT repository and each GIT repository actaully has its own list of Issues. Therefore, there is no need to maintain a list of components - this is done automatically. At the same time, it does not limit the search for issues across components. Yes, this method limits the ability to move issues between components. However, it is possible to solve it easily and as a result very clearly. If an issue is reported in one of the components - for example in main 'tde' component and the analysis specifies that the root of cause is in another component, new issues will be created in the relevant component, and this new issue will reference / follow up on the issue in the originally reported component. As a result, the information will continue to be traceable in the original component.
I think other useful items are usually just the title and comments. And for these items, there is no fundamental difference in the search between Bugzilla and TGW. Therefore, the more comprehensive search options in Bugzilla do not seem to me to be a very strong argument. Therefore, the goal remains to replace Bugzilla with Isuses in TGW.
Cheers
On Fri November 6 2020 22:07:07 Michele Calgaro via tde-users wrote:
Maintaining two bug reporting systems is confusing for the users and a burden for the infrastructure and the maintenance team.
IIRC with TGW bug reporting I didn't have to figure out which component of TDE to file under which made it a lot easier for me than Bugzilla.
--Mike
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Felix Miata -
Michael -
Michele Calgaro -
Mike Bird -
Slávek Banko