13 Oct
2020
13 Oct
'20
1:07 a.m.
Hi all,
the fifth service on the migration list is Bugzilla. For the Bugzilla, the
situation is significantly different, because we need to discuss here
before any steps are taken.
-- Migration status --
Bugzilla is on Tim's original infrastructure. Therefore, no one else can
manage the current instance. And there are various issues that we are
currently unable to resolve, such as problem with login when https is
used. So it definitely needs some change.
-- What needs to be done --
First of all, we need to discuss and decide whether we want to continue
using Bugzilla.
As mentioned earlier, TGW is now used as a comprehensive workspace. And
TGW contains Issues that can be used instead of bug reports in a separate
Bugzilla. There are several benefits to using Issues. Above all, Issues
are well integrated into the development workflow. It also provides good
comfort - for example, it is possible to use comment formatting to make it
more readable and clear. At the same time, it seems like a good idea to
use one problem reporting tool rather than two independent ones.
If we find a consensus that there is no significant reason to use Bugzilla,
we need to decide how to deal with existing bug reports. There are two
options:
1) Migrate Bugzilla to a new instance, which will be locked for adding new
bug reports. This can be done more easily. However, the problem remains
that there will continue to be two places for users to look for problem
reports.
2) Migrate bug reports from Bugzilla into Issues in TGW and then stop
Bugzilla completely. Although it is likely to be more difficult to do, I
think it would be a better solution.
-- More ideas and suggestions?
What is your opinion on Bugzilla migration?
Do you have any other ideas and suggestions?
Cheers
--
Slávek
13 Oct
13 Oct
1:33 a.m.
Slávek Banko via tde-users composed on 2020-10-13 03:07 (UTC+0200):
First of all, we need to discuss and decide whether we
want to continue
using Bugzilla.
Mozilla's bug tracking software is the best bar none. The
original. Lots of
thought over more than two decades has gone into building into what it is.
I have nothing but trouble no matter what I'm trying to do with all the other
trackers.
Google can't even tell me what a TGW tracker is, thinks it's all about golf.
--
Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion,
is based on faith, not on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
1:57 a.m.
On Monday 12 October 2020 08:33:47 pm Felix Miata wrote:
Slávek Banko via tde-users composed on 2020-10-13
03:07 (UTC+0200):
Felix brings up a point I wouldn’t have considered, how usable the software is
by the primary users of the software.
The bug reporting software won’t be used very often by most people who are
only on this, the users list. So asking us seems, to me, to be the wrong
people to ask.
My opinion? You developers decide. What’s best for you?
We the users will basically have to learn the software the first time we want
to create a bug report. So, what software that is, seems pretty much
irrelevant to us???
I guess all I’d ask for is a clearly labeled, “Noobs start here” link so
if/when I do need to file a bug report, I have a well defined checklist of
what exactly to do to file it so it’s useful. And really well defined!
Start with the basics like, “install package debug-xyz,” “run the program
by ???,” “copy/paste the output of xyz,” “stuff!”
Best,
Michael
First of all, we need to discuss and decide
whether we want to continue
using Bugzilla.
Mozilla's bug tracking software is the best bar none. The original. Lots of
thought over more than two decades has gone into building into what it is.
I have nothing but trouble no matter what I'm trying to do with all the
other trackers.
Google can't even tell me what a TGW tracker is, thinks it's all about
golf. 
3:44 a.m.
On 2020/10/13 09:57 AM, Michael via tde-users wrote:
My opinion? You developers decide. What’s best for
you?
We the users will basically have to learn the software the first time we want
to create a bug report. So, what software that is, seems pretty much
irrelevant to us???
I guess all I’d ask for is a clearly labeled, “Noobs start here” link so
if/when I do need to file a bug report, I have a well defined checklist of
what exactly to do to file it so it’s useful. And really well defined!
Start with the basics like, “install package debug-xyz,” “run the program
by ???,” “copy/paste the output of xyz,” “stuff!”
That is a very good point Michael.
The change non only refers to the system used, but also on how it is integrated in TDE
code (as in "Report a bug" link
in the applications), so it needs to be carefully thought over.
As for TGW, it stands for TDE Gitea Workspace, which has been the main hub for TDE
development since 2018 as indicated
in all the release notes since R14.0.6 onwards.
https://mirror.git.trinitydesktop.org/gitea
User guide on how to use TGW is here:
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/TDE_Gitea_Workspace
To report a bug on TGW, you just need a web browser an follow the steps explained here:
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/TDE_Gitea_Workspace#To_report_bugs_and_sugg…
Cheers
Michele
4:53 p.m.
Dne út 13. října 2020 Michael via tde-users napsal(a):
On Monday 12 October 2020 08:33:47 pm Felix Miata
wrote:
As Michele mentioned, we have been using TDE Gitea Workspace (TGW) since
May 2018 and it has proven to be very successful.
Because Issues is an integral part of Gitea, it is a very well integrated
part of the development process and therefore as developers we prefer
Issues in TGW. After all, pull-requests are also processed as Issues.
Therefore, it is certain that Issues in TGW will be used, and the question
is, is there any really good reason to use Bugzilla as a second system for
the same purpose? I'm aware that Bugzilla has more years of experience
with bug tracking systems, while Issues in TGW may be less mature, but,
sorry Felix, that's not enough reason.
Slávek Banko via tde-users composed on 2020-10-13
03:07 (UTC+0200):
Felix brings up a point I wouldn’t have considered, how usable the
software is by the primary users of the software.
The bug reporting software won’t be used very often by most people who
are only on this, the users list. So asking us seems, to me, to be the
wrong people to ask.
My opinion? You developers decide. What’s best for you?
First of all, we need to discuss and decide
whether we want to
continue using Bugzilla.
Mozilla's bug tracking software is the best bar none. The original.
Lots of thought over more than two decades has gone into building into
what it is.
I have nothing but trouble no matter what I'm trying to do with all
the other trackers.
Google can't even tell me what a TGW tracker is, thinks it's all about
golf. We the users will basically have to learn the software
the first time we
want to create a bug report. So, what software that is, seems pretty
much irrelevant to us???
I guess all I’d ask for is a clearly labeled, “Noobs start here” link so
if/when I do need to file a bug report, I have a well defined checklist
of what exactly to do to file it so it’s useful. And really well
defined! Start with the basics like, “install package debug-xyz,” “run
the program by ???,” “copy/paste the output of xyz,” “stuff!”
Michele posted a link to a wiki page with instructions. However, here it
may be a good idea to split this one page into multiple pages according to
purpose - common information, for users and for developers. From the
previous discussion about the web server, here is a plan to improve the
Get Involved page so that it contains essential information and links -
instructions for reporting issues are one of these things.
As Michele mentioned, here we will also have to change the integration into
TDE applications - the Report a bug/enhancement menu item. So more work
will be needed here.
Best,
Michael
____________________________________________________
Thank you for your opinion!
That was helpful.
Cheers
--
Slávek
7 Nov
7 Nov
12:21 a.m.
On Tuesday 13 of October 2020 03:07:10 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Hi all,
the fifth service on the migration list is Bugzilla. For the Bugzilla,
the situation is significantly different, because we need to discuss
here before any steps are taken.
-- Migration status --
Bugzilla is on Tim's original infrastructure. Therefore, no one else can
manage the current instance. And there are various issues that we are
currently unable to resolve, such as problem with login when https is
used. So it definitely needs some change.
-- What needs to be done --
First of all, we need to discuss and decide whether we want to continue
using Bugzilla.
As mentioned earlier, TGW is now used as a comprehensive workspace. And
TGW contains Issues that can be used instead of bug reports in a
separate Bugzilla. There are several benefits to using Issues. Above
all, Issues are well integrated into the development workflow. It also
provides good comfort - for example, it is possible to use comment
formatting to make it more readable and clear. At the same time, it
seems like a good idea to use one problem reporting tool rather than two
independent ones.
If we find a consensus that there is no significant reason to use
Bugzilla, we need to decide how to deal with existing bug reports. There
are two options:
1) Migrate Bugzilla to a new instance, which will be locked for adding
new bug reports. This can be done more easily. However, the problem
remains that there will continue to be two places for users to look for
problem reports.
2) Migrate bug reports from Bugzilla into Issues in TGW and then stop
Bugzilla completely. Although it is likely to be more difficult to do, I
think it would be a better solution.
-- More ideas and suggestions?
What is your opinion on Bugzilla migration?
Do you have any other ideas and suggestions?
Cheers
Hi all,
thank you for your feedback. Since it has been a long time since opinions
and arguments have been made here, I will assume that we can decide.
The arguments for keeping Bugzilla made here do not seem convincing enough.
Therefore, according to proposal 2, the goal we will be heading towards
will be the full replacement of the Bugzilla by issues in TGW.
The whole process will take some time - from a change of integration to
report bugs in the applications to the migration of existing bug reports
to issues in TGW, so for some time there will still be a concurrence of
Bugzilla and issues in TGW. In any case, it is recommended to create
issues in TGW instead of bug reports in Bugzilla.
Cheers
--
Slávek
5:18 a.m.
Slávek Banko via tde-users composed on 2020-11-07 01:21 (UTC+0100):
The arguments for keeping Bugzilla made here do not
seem convincing enough.
Therefore, according to proposal 2, the goal we will be heading towards
will be the full replacement of the Bugzilla by issues in TGW.
One more, FWIW. Since searching for existing bugs on trackers other than Bugzilla
and actually finding what I'm looking for is so rare, most likely I won't be
bothering to search when I find a problem, but simply file a report and let others
figure out if it's a duplicate or not. Historically I've tried to keep triagers
from having to do this, since triage is what I used to do a lot of.
--
Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion,
is based on faith, not on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
6:07 a.m.
On 2020/11/07 01:18 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
One more, FWIW. Since searching for existing bugs on
trackers other than Bugzilla
and actually finding what I'm looking for is so rare, most likely I won't be
bothering to search when I find a problem, but simply file a report and let others
figure out if it's a duplicate or not. Historically I've tried to keep triagers
from having to do this, since triage is what I used to do a lot of.
--
Hi Felix,
I do like bugszilla as well, it has some positive points.
But it feels like an elephant compared to the flexibility offered by Issues on TGW.
We plan to preserve history by migrating existing bugs to TGW so info won't be lost.
Search for Issues on TGW is quite simple and comprehensive, that is one of the factor we
put lot of attention to.
You pretty much login to TGW, go here (https://mirror.git.trinitydesktop.org/gitea/issues)
and type what you want to
search for in the search box. You can also do localized searches per module if you repeat
the process on a specific
repository.
Maintaining two bug reporting systems is confusing for the users and a burden for the
infrastructure and the maintenance
team.
Cheers
Michele
7:19 a.m.
Michele Calgaro via tde-users composed on 2020-11-07 14:07 (UTC+0800):
Search for Issues on TGW is quite simple and
comprehensive, that is one of the factor we put lot of attention to.
Time will tell. Simplicity is the usual problem with non-Bugzilla trackers -
limited or non-existent ability to narrow a search to a period or user or group or
package but more particularly a combination two or more of the above and other
criteria.
--
Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion,
is based on faith, not on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
7 Dec
7 Dec
12:41 a.m.
On Saturday 07 of November 2020 08:19:47 Felix Miata wrote:
Michele Calgaro via tde-users composed on 2020-11-07
14:07 (UTC+0800):
Yes, of course, Bugzilla has more extensive search options, because there
are many more items in the search form ... on the other hand, there are
items that are rarely used and items that users do not fill in correctly.
The question is what items are really useful and whether TGW provides
sufficient options.
One example of an item that is significantly different between Bugzilla and
TGW is the Component selection.
In Bugzilla, this is just one of the form items, for which we have to
maintain a list of offered items. The current list is incomplete - there
are no individual applications, so the usefulness of this item is reduced
for now. At the same time, adding items would probably result in a long,
not very clear list.
In TGW, the approach is quite the opposite. Each component is a GIT
repository and each GIT repository actaully has its own list of Issues.
Therefore, there is no need to maintain a list of components - this is
done automatically. At the same time, it does not limit the search for
issues across components. Yes, this method limits the ability to move
issues between components. However, it is possible to solve it easily and
as a result very clearly. If an issue is reported in one of the
components - for example in main 'tde' component and the analysis
specifies that the root of cause is in another component, new issues will
be created in the relevant component, and this new issue will reference /
follow up on the issue in the originally reported component. As a result,
the information will continue to be traceable in the original component.
I think other useful items are usually just the title and comments. And for
these items, there is no fundamental difference in the search between
Bugzilla and TGW. Therefore, the more comprehensive search options in
Bugzilla do not seem to me to be a very strong argument. Therefore, the
goal remains to replace Bugzilla with Isuses in TGW.
Cheers
--
Slávek
Search for Issues on TGW is quite simple and
comprehensive, that is
one of the factor we put lot of attention to.
Time will tell. Simplicity is the usual problem with non-Bugzilla
trackers - limited or non-existent ability to narrow a search to a
period or user or group or package but more particularly a combination
two or more of the above and other criteria. 
7 Nov
7 Nov
7:25 a.m.
On Fri November 6 2020 22:07:07 Michele Calgaro via tde-users wrote:
Maintaining two bug reporting systems is confusing for
the users and a
burden for the infrastructure and the maintenance team.
IIRC with TGW bug reporting I didn't have to figure out which
component of TDE to file under which made it a lot easier for
me than Bugzilla.
--Mike
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10 comments
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Slávek Banko