Hi all!
Maybe some have alredy noticed: the new EU censorship regime is randomly blocking mails to mailinglist like TDE. I just had a talk with my mail provider and it's not encouraging. e.g:
My last reply to the list with the link from hunters mail (I cannot place the link in here, 'cause it blocks this mail) was blocked from sending by the providers SMTP server as spam. GMX deleted the mail without any error message. For now the filters work on the message body, not the mail headers.
So my question: Can we set up a gnupgp public key to the list, so that the mails cannot be suppressed by the cencorship mail content filters? The encrypted mails can be decryptied automaticly and the fed into the mailinglist.
Nik
A message being blocked because your email triggered an ISPs spam filter is not the same as the government "randomly blocking mails".
Most likely your provider is trigger-happy at mislabeling legitimate messages as spam.
If you think that a link was the thing that triggered the filter, you can break it up in the way that web sites used to break up email addresses to stop spammers from harvesting them:
# skip the protocol part, like http colon slash slash
www DOT google DOT com
Are you referring to Hunter's email here?
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
That contains a URL at abramov DOT org which is blacklisted by UCEPROTECTL3:
https://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=blacklist%3aabramov.org&run=...
It also contains another URL at mocah.org which is not currently blacklisted.
UCEPROTECT seems to have a very bad reputation as an overzealous RBL that blocks entire subdomains or domains, allegedly fakes attacks in order to justify those blocks, and accepts money for "express delisting".
https://securityboulevard.com/2021/02/uceprotect-when-rbls-go-bad/
So it seems to me that your mail provider is passing the buck and saying "Government censorship!!!" when what actually happened is that they delegated their spam filtering to some garbage commercial filtering system such as UCEPROTECT or similar.
But maybe that's just me being cynical.
Hi Steven!
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 6 Oct 19:48:25 +1100 Steven D'Aprano scripsit:
A message being blocked because your email triggered an ISPs spam filter is not the same as the government "randomly blocking mails".
Most likely your provider is trigger-happy at mislabeling legitimate messages as spam.
If you think that a link was the thing that triggered the filter, you can break it up in the way that web sites used to break up email addresses to stop spammers from harvesting them:
# skip the protocol part, like http colon slash slash
www DOT google DOT com
Are you referring to Hunter's email here?
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
That contains a URL at abramov DOT org which is blacklisted by UCEPROTECTL3:
It also contains another URL at mocah.org which is not currently blacklisted.
UCEPROTECT seems to have a very bad reputation as an overzealous RBL that blocks entire subdomains or domains, allegedly fakes attacks in order to justify those blocks, and accepts money for "express delisting".
So it seems to me that your mail provider is passing the buck and saying "Government censorship!!!" when what actually happened is that they delegated their spam filtering to some garbage commercial filtering system such as UCEPROTECT or similar.
But maybe that's just me being cynical.
You are not cynical, that's exactly what it looks like. The problem from the customer perspective: the mail provider lies and I cannot do anything about it. This is no different than goverment censorship, as this practice is covered by the goverment (at least here in Austria). The other problem is gmx silently deleting mails - interesingly the very same mails that did not get delivered by Magenta.
Nik
On 10/6/21 5:06 AM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
You are not cynical, that's exactly what it looks like. The problem from the customer perspective: the mail provider lies and I cannot do anything about it. This is no different than goverment censorship, as this practice is covered by the goverment (at least here in Austria). The other problem is gmx silently deleting mails - interesingly the very same mails that did not get delivered by Magenta.
Nik
Hi Nik,
The previous email I used for the TDE list is under a domain at GMX and the IMAP/SMTP connections went over to Germany (from the U.S.), using the same servers as for gmx dot com mail. The current email is a domain under AOL/Yahoo in the U.S.
I never had any type of spam issue with GMX, nor have I had any emails mysteriously deleted. Any spams that were received there, were correctly detected and placed in the Spam folder.
More recently though, their U.S.-based sister (mail dot com) automatically deleted a few spam e-mails sent to me, that actually contained a virus and their server sends an e-mail to the recipient when this occurs. The e-mail sent, referencing the deletion due to virus, included the senders e-mail and subject and mentioned that if the sender was known to me (they all weren't), to contact the sender(s) to let them know what was occurring.
I'm wondering if what you're experiencing with GMX might possibly be a temporary issue?
I did a quick search and found https://www.leadiro.com/blog/gdpr-mapped. Perhaps it has some helpful info.
Ed
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 6 Oct 16:38:24 -0400 Edward scripsit:
On 10/6/21 5:06 AM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
You are not cynical, that's exactly what it looks like. The problem from the customer perspective: the mail provider lies and I cannot do anything about it. This is no different than goverment censorship, as this practice is covered by the goverment (at least here in Austria). The other problem is gmx silently deleting mails - interesingly the very same mails that did not get delivered by Magenta.
Nik
Hi Nik,
The previous email I used for the TDE list is under a domain at GMX and the IMAP/SMTP connections went over to Germany (from the U.S.), using the same servers as for gmx dot com mail. The current email is a domain under AOL/Yahoo in the U.S.
I never had any type of spam issue with GMX, nor have I had any emails mysteriously deleted. Any spams that were received there, were correctly detected and placed in the Spam folder.
More recently though, their U.S.-based sister (mail dot com) automatically deleted a few spam e-mails sent to me, that actually contained a virus and their server sends an e-mail to the recipient when this occurs. The e-mail sent, referencing the deletion due to virus, included the senders e-mail and subject and mentioned that if the sender was known to me (they all weren't), to contact the sender(s) to let them know what was occurring.
I'm wondering if what you're experiencing with GMX might possibly be a temporary issue?
That issue with gmx.at is there since Zensursula went on her crusade against the Internet Terrorists in ~ 2009.
Nik
I did a quick search and found https://www.leadiro.com/blog/gdpr-mapped. Perhaps it has some helpful info.
Ed
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 03:48:25 am Steven D'Aprano wrote:
UCEPROTECT seems to have a very bad reputation as an overzealous RBL that blocks entire subdomains or domains, allegedly fakes attacks in order to justify those blocks, and accepts money for "express delisting".
https://securityboulevard.com/2021/02/uceprotect-when-rbls-go-bad/
So it seems to me that your mail provider is passing the buck and saying "Government censorship!!!" when what actually happened is that they delegated their spam filtering to some garbage commercial filtering system such as UCEPROTECT or similar.
But maybe that's just me being cynical.
Nope. You're not being cynical. My clients have this issue with their clients' mail providers using crap RBL services all the time. ‘Cause, yes, blocking a whole subset of IPs for ‘bad neighborhood’ makes you a hell of a lot more money selling "express delisting" to idiots.
Am Mittwoch, 6. Oktober 2021 schrieb Dr. Nikolaus Klepp:
Maybe some have alredy noticed: the new EU censorship regime is randomly blocking mails to mailinglist like TDE. I just had a talk with my mail provider and it's not encouraging. e.g:
How do you know its censorship and why it would be done randomly? I'd like to know more and would appreciate a link to the source of that information. Thank you.
My last reply to the list with the link from hunters mail (I cannot place the link in here, 'cause it blocks this mail) was blocked from sending by the providers SMTP server as spam. GMX deleted the mail without any error message. For now the filters work on the message body, not the mail headers.
Indeed, in the last few weeks I've noticed some of my mails to tde-users vanishing. After a couple of days I got GMX's error message (my domain is still registered with GMX) that the message couldn't be delivered or some such. Therefore I got the impression that the filter/whatever is on the other side at the receiving end.
Anyway, I have registered with a local, commercial provider for little money (jpberlin.de) and hopefully they'll handle these things more user-friendly.
Cheers, Stefan
Indeed, in the last few weeks I've noticed some of my mails to tde-users vanishing. After a couple of days I got GMX's error message (my domain is still registered with GMX) that the message couldn't be delivered or some such. Therefore I got the impression that the filter/whatever is on the other side at the receiving end.
Anyway, I have registered with a local, commercial provider for little money (jpberlin.de) and hopefully they'll handle these things more user-friendly.
Just wondering, is the issue with internet service providers (ISPs) blocking the e-mails or is it the e-mail service companies? In the latter case, would it solve it by switching to a different e-mail service, e.g., from GMX to gmail or similar?
Gianluca
Cheers, Stefan ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. -----------------------------------------------------
said Gianluca Interlandi:
| Just wondering, is the issue with internet service providers (ISPs) | blocking the e-mails or is it the e-mail service companies? In the | latter case, would it solve it by switching to a different e-mail | service, e.g., from GMX to gmail or similar?
The email situation in general is a mess, whether from some outside provider, from the ISP, whatever. I was reasonably happy with my ISPs service until they farmed it out to the molding remains of AOL and Yahoo (fronting for Verizon) who when they took over sent out a notice saying that they'd be combing through everything to find anything they could sell, and by using their service we agree to their doing so. (At least they did send the notice; most places hide that stuff in legalese 14 links into the privacy statement on their websites.) That day I switched to ProtonMail -- I've never been back to the ISP's mail at all. I chose a paid version because I wanted to move my domains over to them and because I wanted the then-beta ProtonMail Bridge, which is a big wad of stuff that lets me use my preferred mail client, in my case KMail; those two features are not available to free accounts, where one needs to use their webmail or something like the standalone ElectronMail webmail emulator. Those two things work very well, but have shortcomings: they make local mail archive storage problematic, and they make anything but top posting sheer bloody hell.
But something like that is all that there is nowadays. Or the kind of thing that has been discussed here involving GPG or the like, which is effective if everybody is onboard. -- dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 6 Oct 13:34:18 +0200 Stefan Krusche scripsit:
Am Mittwoch, 6. Oktober 2021 schrieb Dr. Nikolaus Klepp: How do you know its censorship and why it would be done randomly? I'd like to know more and would appreciate a link to the source of that information. Thank you.
Nothing written, no. I played the gotcha-game with some clients ans Magenta today. Turned out Magenta blocked all outgoing mails containg a URL with "propaganda" in it - and gmx.at deleted the same mails silently. And yes, the hostname Hunter put in his list is still blocked, too. To put things straight: both things are illegal in Austria - and government does not give a shit on "the law".
Nik
My last reply to the list with the link from hunters mail (I cannot place the link in here, 'cause it blocks this mail) was blocked from sending by the providers SMTP server as spam. GMX deleted the mail without any error message. For now the filters work on the message body, not the mail headers.
Indeed, in the last few weeks I've noticed some of my mails to tde-users vanishing. After a couple of days I got GMX's error message (my domain is still registered with GMX) that the message couldn't be delivered or some such. Therefore I got the impression that the filter/whatever is on the other side at the receiving end.
Anyway, I have registered with a local, commercial provider for little money (jpberlin.de) and hopefully they'll handle these things more user-friendly.
Cheers, Stefan ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Nothing written, no. I played the gotcha-game with some clients ans Magenta today. Turned out Magenta blocked all outgoing mails containg a URL with "propaganda" in it - and gmx.at deleted the same mails silently. And yes, the hostname Hunter put in his list is still blocked, too. To put things straight: both things are illegal in Austria - and government does not give a shit on "the law".
may be they can not manage DMARK properly
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 6 Oct 13:34:18 +0200 Stefan Krusche scripsit:
Am Mittwoch, 6. Oktober 2021 schrieb Dr. Nikolaus Klepp: [...] How do you know its censorship and why it would be done randomly? I'd like to know more and would appreciate a link to the source of that information. Thank you.
Additional information on that matter from the side of an Austrian citicen: Nobody is allowed to peek into your email. This is called "Briefgeheinis" (confidentiality of communications) and is a constitutional right. MAgenta in this case is violating my constitiutinal right. I had a bief email chat with the 2. level support ("not our problem" "solve it with Cloudmark"). It took about 5 minutes from me sending the email hinting "censorship" and "lawsuit" to get Magenta remove the block. It's still blocked for others.
Nik
My last reply to the list with the link from hunters mail (I cannot place the link in here, 'cause it blocks this mail) was blocked from sending by the providers SMTP server as spam. GMX deleted the mail without any error message. For now the filters work on the message body, not the mail headers.
Indeed, in the last few weeks I've noticed some of my mails to tde-users vanishing. After a couple of days I got GMX's error message (my domain is still registered with GMX) that the message couldn't be delivered or some such. Therefore I got the impression that the filter/whatever is on the other side at the receiving end.
Anyway, I have registered with a local, commercial provider for little money (jpberlin.de) and hopefully they'll handle these things more user-friendly.
Cheers, Stefan ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 02:31:59 am Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Maybe some have alredy noticed: the new EU censorship regime is randomly blocking mails to mailinglist like TDE. I just had a talk with my mail provider and it's not encouraging. e.g:
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 06:34:18 am Stefan Krusche wrote:
Indeed, in the last few weeks I've noticed some of my mails to tde-users vanishing. After a couple of days I got GMX's error message (my domain is still registered with GMX) that the message couldn't be delivered or some such. Therefore I got the impression that the filter/whatever is on the other side at the receiving end.
Hi All,
This is probably part of the recent issues with people’s emails vanishing. Doubtfully all though.
There was a configuration change to [something, I’m kinda guessing bind by timestamp, but really exim seems the more logical culprit] around the 1st of September that initiated blocking previously send-able mail to those mails being blocked by “Deferred: 451 Temporary local problem.”
Two major issues with this, 1) the reject mail didn’t go anywhere off box*, and 2) that message means little to a regular user.
* I had some mail being mailed and received by the same server, so was able to see it in the logs.
I ended up putting sendmail into debug mode on two different servers to find out that ultimately it was a bind lookup stating the sender domain could not be verified, at which point sendmail couldn't/wouldn’t send it and would send the error/reply at bottom.
The fix was to fix any issues you have with the sending email address's DNS. Which if you have a third party provider, or they have internal pass through servers, you can’t do, but for those of you who can here’s some commands that should help.
# dig NS "$DOMAIN" # dig @ns1.example.com "$DOMAIN" # dig "$DOMAIN"
# echo "Subject: send mail to me" | sendmail -v myaddress@example.com
Note: Sendmail is kinda slow? Give it a couple/three minutes to complete its thing. When you feel it should be done, hit “Enter” once to get your command prompt back.
# # #
Think your ISP/mail host/government is censoring you?
Hosting your own domain for mail is 25-50 USD per year. Might even be basically free (<$10) with dynamic DNS.
I am/do not affiliated/work for this company. Porkbun.com sells .com domains at cost, but you can find TLDs for 3 or 4 USD per year as well.]
# # #
In the global scheme of things, the change would seem to actually reduce spam loads (hopefully?), but ‘eh, who knows, spammers have never had problems faking the sending email address anyway...
Hope that helps and lets see if this makes it through the new email maze...
Best, Michael
Sanitized copy of error/reply mail:
Subject: Warning: could not send message for past 4 hours Date: 09/01/21 12:50:24 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@{deleted}> To: root@{deleted}
The original message was received at Wed, 1 Sep 2021 08:42:33 -0500 from localhost [127.0.0.1]
----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to {deleted}.:
DATA
<<< 451 Temporary local problem - please try later srv09_csf@{deleted}... Deferred: 451 Temporary local problem - please try later <<< 503-All RCPT commands were rejected with this error: <<< 503-Temporary local problem - please try later <<< 503 Valid RCPT command must precede DATA Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours Will keep trying until message is 5 days old
Return-Path: {deleted} ...
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 02:31:59 am Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
So my question: Can we set up a gnupgp public key to the list, so that the mails cannot be suppressed by the cencorship mail content filters? The encrypted mails can be decryptied automaticly and the fed into the mailinglist.
Second.
I'd prefer it be gnupgp end to end though. We’d need Slavik’s input for what can really be done, but it shouldn’t be too hard to generate a public/private key set that can be shared to the whole group.
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 08:21:31 Michael wrote:
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 02:31:59 am Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
So my question: Can we set up a gnupgp public key to the list, so that the mails cannot be suppressed by the cencorship mail content filters? The encrypted mails can be decryptied automaticly and the fed into the mailinglist.
Second.
I'd prefer it be gnupgp end to end though. We’d need Slavik’s input for what can really be done, but it shouldn’t be too hard to generate a public/private key set that can be shared to the whole group.
We all ought to be using encryption for our emails, anyway. (I mean, in some more perfect world; in a really perfect world, we wouldn't have to worry about snooping or blocking or censorship or predatory ISPs ... but I digress.)
It would be good if we can get something like this set up; and a learning experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for our emails.
Bill
said William Morder via tde-users:
| It would be good if we can get something like this set up; and a | learning experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for | our emails.
I agree. And, yeah, the trick would be crystal-clear setup instructions. I've played with gpg a little over the years and through, probably, my own lack of knowledge haven't found it useful, but would welcome getting dissuaded from this notion. -- dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 08:52:25 -0700 William Morder via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 08:21:31 Michael wrote:
I'd prefer it be gnupgp end to end though. We’d need Slavik’s input for what can really be done, but it shouldn’t be too hard to generate a public/private key set that can be shared to the whole group.
We all ought to be using encryption for our emails, anyway. (I mean, in some more perfect world; in a really perfect world, we wouldn't have to worry about snooping or blocking or censorship or predatory ISPs ... but I digress.)
It would be good if we can get something like this set up; and a learning experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for our emails.
It's also an additional barrier for anyone attempting to join the list. And this list is the main help channel for TDE, so it behooves us to keep it as barrier-free as possible.
E. Liddell
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 6 Oct 14:05:40 -0400 E. Liddell scripsit:
On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 08:52:25 -0700 William Morder via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 08:21:31 Michael wrote:
I'd prefer it be gnupgp end to end though. We’d need Slavik’s input for what can really be done, but it shouldn’t be too hard to generate a public/private key set that can be shared to the whole group.
We all ought to be using encryption for our emails, anyway. (I mean, in some more perfect world; in a really perfect world, we wouldn't have to worry about snooping or blocking or censorship or predatory ISPs ... but I digress.)
It would be good if we can get something like this set up; and a learning experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for our emails.
It's also an additional barrier for anyone attempting to join the list. And this list is the main help channel for TDE, so it behooves us to keep it as barrier-free as possible.
I would not propose to make it a closed list with encrypted-mails only. I would just add the possibility to send encrypted mail to the list, just in case "something" thinks your (or my) unencrypted mail is bad.
BTW, I don't know if gnupg is good at handling lots of recipients with different public keys as each recepient adds ~ 500 byte to the message size.
Nik
E. Liddell ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
It would be good if we can get something like this set up; and a learning experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for our emails.
It's also an additional barrier for anyone attempting to join the list. And this list is the main help channel for TDE, so it behooves us to keep it as barrier-free as possible.
E. Liddell
On this point, I am of two minds.
True enough, we ought to keep the mailing list free of barriers to newbies, and a few years ago I would have been among those excluded; on the other hand, it seems inevitable that most email providers, or corporate emails, or mailing lists, or private individuals, will *all* have to make similar changes sometime in the near future.
I don't mean that we ought to force members of the list to use encryption; it's not one of those "if you plan to live another 10 years" arguments. But either email* will be transformed into some kind of total-encryption rule, or people will find other, more secure and private, ways to communicate.
Now that the cat is out of the bag (about surveillance, blocking, censorship, etc.), people have started to demand more protections, respect for their privacy, and so on. If the public were still ignorant of the degree of snooping by governments and corporations, then maybe things could continue as they were; but either everything becomes encrypted, or people will just stop playing along and pretending that it's okay.
If nothing else, we ought to consider taking intermediate steps (but then, there is no "sort-of encryption"!), or formulate some kind of plan, to get from here to there. Otherwise, consider the alternative: that we are always at the mercy of corporations or governments who may not have our best interests in mind.
There are providers (such as ProtonMail?) where encryption is automatic, and end-to-end, and the users only need to set it up, but after that they just send and receive emails as usual. That would be ideal, since it wouldn't be too daunting for inexperienced users.
Not so long ago, I considered buying my own server. (There is some brand by name of Helm that sounded good.) That way I could be my own host, and not have to worry about keeping logs and all that other stuff, and if anybody interfered, I could just say no. But it seemed like too much work for myself alone. I also considered setting up some kind of group, so that we might share costs and maintenance and admin duties, but again this would require more use of email in order to justify the expense and work.
So while these two extremes (no encryption or total encryption) may look irreconcilable, I believe that we will all eventually move into a totally-encrypted future, because DUH, everybody knows why.
Bill
P.S. *and probably the whole Internet, and any other kind of digital activities, including "smart" devices in the home, etc.
On Wed, 6 Oct 2021, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
It would be good if we can get something like this set up; and a learning experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for our emails.
It's also an additional barrier for anyone attempting to join the list. And this list is the main help channel for TDE, so it behooves us to keep it as barrier-free as possible.
E. Liddell
On this point, I am of two minds.
True enough, we ought to keep the mailing list free of barriers to newbies, and a few years ago I would have been among those excluded; on the other hand, it seems inevitable that most email providers, or corporate emails, or mailing lists, or private individuals, will *all* have to make similar changes sometime in the near future.
The premise, or hope, is that the government will not block encrypted e-mail as well. A while ago when I moved to the United States I was told by my bank in my home country that they would have to block e-banking on my account because the US does not allow certain encryption protocols. Hopefully not, but we may end up at the mercy of big tech companies for our communication. Some people at work have started using Slack, which promises to "improve your productivity", but then they make you pay for every single extra feature, not really cheap and they are not upfront about it either.
Gianluca
I don't mean that we ought to force members of the list to use encryption; it's not one of those "if you plan to live another 10 years" arguments. But either email* will be transformed into some kind of total-encryption rule, or people will find other, more secure and private, ways to communicate.
Now that the cat is out of the bag (about surveillance, blocking, censorship, etc.), people have started to demand more protections, respect for their privacy, and so on. If the public were still ignorant of the degree of snooping by governments and corporations, then maybe things could continue as they were; but either everything becomes encrypted, or people will just stop playing along and pretending that it's okay.
If nothing else, we ought to consider taking intermediate steps (but then, there is no "sort-of encryption"!), or formulate some kind of plan, to get from here to there. Otherwise, consider the alternative: that we are always at the mercy of corporations or governments who may not have our best interests in mind.
There are providers (such as ProtonMail?) where encryption is automatic, and end-to-end, and the users only need to set it up, but after that they just send and receive emails as usual. That would be ideal, since it wouldn't be too daunting for inexperienced users.
Not so long ago, I considered buying my own server. (There is some brand by name of Helm that sounded good.) That way I could be my own host, and not have to worry about keeping logs and all that other stuff, and if anybody interfered, I could just say no. But it seemed like too much work for myself alone. I also considered setting up some kind of group, so that we might share costs and maintenance and admin duties, but again this would require more use of email in order to justify the expense and work.
So while these two extremes (no encryption or total encryption) may look irreconcilable, I believe that we will all eventually move into a totally-encrypted future, because DUH, everybody knows why.
Bill
P.S. *and probably the whole Internet, and any other kind of digital activities, including "smart" devices in the home, etc. ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. -----------------------------------------------------
I think that the mailing list may not be the best way to reach users, although its certainly more active than the IRC channel. As an alternative, I have a TDE Matrix room if anyone is interested and it needs to grow: #trinity-desktop:halogen.city
On October 6, 2021 1:05:40 PM CDT, "E. Liddell" ejlddll@warpmail.net wrote:
On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 08:52:25 -0700 William Morder via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 08:21:31 Michael wrote:
I'd prefer it be gnupgp end to end though. We’d need Slavik’s input for what can really be done, but it shouldn’t be too hard to generate a public/private key set that can be shared to the whole group.
We all ought to be using encryption for our emails, anyway. (I mean, in some more perfect world; in a really perfect world, we wouldn't have to worry about snooping or blocking or censorship or predatory ISPs ... but I digress.)
It would be good if we can get something like this set up; and a learning experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for our emails.
It's also an additional barrier for anyone attempting to join the list. And this list is the main help channel for TDE, so it behooves us to keep it as barrier-free as possible.
E. Liddell ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 06 Oct 14:37:41 -0500 Hunter via tde-users scripsit:
I think that the mailing list may not be the best way to reach users, although its certainly more active than the IRC channel. As an alternative, I have a TDE Matrix room if anyone is interested and it needs to grow: #trinity-desktop:halogen.city
I might sound ignorant, but what's a "Matrix room"?
Nik
On October 6, 2021 1:05:40 PM CDT, "E. Liddell" ejlddll@warpmail.net wrote:
On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 08:52:25 -0700 William Morder via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 08:21:31 Michael wrote:
I'd prefer it be gnupgp end to end though. We’d need Slavik’s input for what can really be done, but it shouldn’t be too hard to generate a public/private key set that can be shared to the whole group.
We all ought to be using encryption for our emails, anyway. (I mean, in some more perfect world; in a really perfect world, we wouldn't have to worry about snooping or blocking or censorship or predatory ISPs ... but I digress.)
It would be good if we can get something like this set up; and a learning experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for our emails.
It's also an additional barrier for anyone attempting to join the list. And this list is the main help channel for TDE, so it behooves us to keep it as barrier-free as possible.
E. Liddell ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 09:19:05 +0200 "Dr. Nikolaus Klepp" dr.klepp@gmx.at wrote:
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 06 Oct 14:37:41 -0500 Hunter via tde-users scripsit:
I think that the mailing list may not be the best way to reach users, although its certainly more active than the IRC channel. As an alternative, I have a TDE Matrix room if anyone is interested and it needs to grow: #trinity-desktop:halogen.city
I might sound ignorant, but what's a "Matrix room"?
I assume it's an on-line venue accessible through the matrix messaging network (see matrix.org ).
E. Liddell
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 11:52:25 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 08:21:31 Michael wrote:
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 02:31:59 am Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
So my question: Can we set up a gnupgp public key to the list, so that the mails cannot be suppressed by the cencorship mail content filters? The encrypted mails can be decryptied automaticly and the fed into the mailinglist.
Second.
I'd prefer it be gnupgp end to end though. We’d need Slavik’s input for what can really be done, but it shouldn’t be too hard to generate a public/private key set that can be shared to the whole group.
We all ought to be using encryption for our emails, anyway. (I mean, in some more perfect world; in a really perfect world, we wouldn't have to worry about snooping or blocking or censorship or predatory ISPs ... but I digress.)
It would be good if we can get something like this set up; and a learning experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for our emails.
Bill
+10, Bill, somebody had to say it. We need someone to tutor us.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
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deloptes -
dep -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
E. Liddell -
Edward -
Gene Heskett -
Gianluca Interlandi -
Hunter -
Michael -
Stefan Krusche -
Steven D'Aprano -
William Morder