6 Oct
2021
6 Oct
'21
7:31 a.m.
Hi all!
Maybe some have alredy noticed: the new EU censorship regime is randomly blocking mails to
mailinglist like TDE. I just had a talk with my mail provider and it's not
encouraging. e.g:
My last reply to the list with the link from hunters mail (I cannot place the link in
here, 'cause it blocks this mail) was blocked from sending by the providers SMTP
server as spam. GMX deleted the mail without any error message. For now the filters work
on the message body, not the mail headers.
So my question: Can we set up a gnupgp public key to the list, so that the mails cannot be
suppressed by the cencorship mail content filters? The encrypted mails can be decryptied
automaticly and the fed into the mailinglist.
Nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
6 Oct
6 Oct
8:48 a.m.
A message being blocked because your email triggered an ISPs spam filter
is not the same as the government "randomly blocking mails".
Most likely your provider is trigger-happy at mislabeling legitimate
messages as spam.
If you think that a link was the thing that triggered the filter, you
can break it up in the way that web sites used to break up email
addresses to stop spammers from harvesting them:
# skip the protocol part, like http colon slash slash
www DOT google DOT com
Are you referring to Hunter's email here?
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
That contains a URL at abramov DOT org which is blacklisted by
UCEPROTECTL3:
https://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=blacklist%3aabramov.org&run…
It also contains another URL at mocah.org which is not currently
blacklisted.
UCEPROTECT seems to have a very bad reputation as an overzealous RBL
that blocks entire subdomains or domains, allegedly fakes attacks in
order to justify those blocks, and accepts money for "express
delisting".
https://securityboulevard.com/2021/02/uceprotect-when-rbls-go-bad/
So it seems to me that your mail provider is passing the buck and saying
"Government censorship!!!" when what actually happened is that they
delegated their spam filtering to some garbage commercial filtering
system such as UCEPROTECT or similar.
But maybe that's just me being cynical.
--
Steve
9:06 a.m.
Hi Steven!
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 6 Oct 19:48:25 +1100
Steven D'Aprano scripsit:
A message being blocked because your email triggered
an ISPs spam filter
is not the same as the government "randomly blocking mails".
Most likely your provider is trigger-happy at mislabeling legitimate
messages as spam.
If you think that a link was the thing that triggered the filter, you
can break it up in the way that web sites used to break up email
addresses to stop spammers from harvesting them:
# skip the protocol part, like http colon slash slash
www DOT google DOT com
Are you referring to Hunter's email here?
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
That contains a URL at abramov DOT org which is blacklisted by
UCEPROTECTL3:
************************
It also contains another URL at mocah.org which is not currently
blacklisted.
UCEPROTECT seems to have a very bad reputation as an overzealous RBL
that blocks entire subdomains or domains, allegedly fakes attacks in
order to justify those blocks, and accepts money for "express
delisting".
--------------------
So it seems to me that your mail provider is passing the buck and saying
"Government censorship!!!" when what actually happened is that they
delegated their spam filtering to some garbage commercial filtering
system such as UCEPROTECT or similar.
But maybe that's just me being cynical.
You are not cynical, that's exactly what it looks like. The problem from the customer
perspective: the mail provider lies and I cannot do anything about it. This is no
different than goverment censorship, as this practice is covered by the goverment (at
least here in Austria). The other problem is gmx silently deleting mails - interesingly
the very same mails that did not get delivered by Magenta.
Nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
8:38 p.m.
On 10/6/21 5:06 AM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
You are not cynical, that's exactly what it looks
like. The problem from the customer perspective: the mail provider lies and I cannot do
anything about it. This is no different than goverment censorship, as this practice is
covered by the goverment (at least here in Austria). The other problem is gmx silently
deleting mails - interesingly the very same mails that did not get delivered by Magenta.
Nik
Hi Nik,
The previous email I used for the TDE list is under a domain at GMX and
the IMAP/SMTP connections went over to Germany (from the U.S.), using
the same servers as for gmx dot com mail. The current email is a domain
under AOL/Yahoo in the U.S.
I never had any type of spam issue with GMX, nor have I had any emails
mysteriously deleted. Any spams that were received there, were correctly
detected and placed in the Spam folder.
More recently though, their U.S.-based sister (mail dot com)
automatically deleted a few spam e-mails sent to me, that actually
contained a virus and their server sends an e-mail to the recipient when
this occurs. The e-mail sent, referencing the deletion due to virus,
included the senders e-mail and subject and mentioned that if the sender
was known to me (they all weren't), to contact the sender(s) to let them
know what was occurring.
I'm wondering if what you're experiencing with GMX might possibly be a
temporary issue?
I did a quick search and found https://www.leadiro.com/blog/gdpr-mapped.
Perhaps it has some helpful info.
Ed
--
TDE: 14.0.11pre
Debian: 11 (bullseye, and64)
Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
7 Oct
7 Oct
7:23 a.m.
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 6 Oct 16:38:24 -0400
Edward scripsit:
On 10/6/21 5:06 AM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
That issue with gmx.at is there since Zensursula went on her crusade against the Internet
Terrorists in ~ 2009.
Nik
You are not cynical, that's exactly what it
looks like. The problem from the customer perspective: the mail provider lies and I cannot
do anything about it. This is no different than goverment censorship, as this practice is
covered by the goverment (at least here in Austria). The other problem is gmx silently
deleting mails - interesingly the very same mails that did not get delivered by Magenta.
Nik
Hi Nik,
The previous email I used for the TDE list is under a domain at GMX and
the IMAP/SMTP connections went over to Germany (from the U.S.), using
the same servers as for gmx dot com mail. The current email is a domain
under AOL/Yahoo in the U.S.
I never had any type of spam issue with GMX, nor have I had any emails
mysteriously deleted. Any spams that were received there, were correctly
detected and placed in the Spam folder.
More recently though, their U.S.-based sister (mail dot com)
automatically deleted a few spam e-mails sent to me, that actually
contained a virus and their server sends an e-mail to the recipient when
this occurs. The e-mail sent, referencing the deletion due to virus,
included the senders e-mail and subject and mentioned that if the sender
was known to me (they all weren't), to contact the sender(s) to let them
know what was occurring.
I'm wondering if what you're experiencing with GMX might possibly be a
temporary issue?
I did a quick search and found https://www.leadiro.com/blog/gdpr-mapped.
Perhaps it has some helpful info.
Ed
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
6 Oct
6 Oct
3:16 p.m.
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 03:48:25 am Steven D'Aprano wrote:
UCEPROTECT seems to have a very bad reputation as an
overzealous RBL
that blocks entire subdomains or domains, allegedly fakes attacks in
order to justify those blocks, and accepts money for "express
delisting".
https://securityboulevard.com/2021/02/uceprotect-when-rbls-go-bad/
So it seems to me that your mail provider is passing the buck and saying
"Government censorship!!!" when what actually happened is that they
delegated their spam filtering to some garbage commercial filtering
system such as UCEPROTECT or similar.
But maybe that's just me being cynical.
Nope. You're not being cynical. My clients have this issue with their
clients' mail providers using crap RBL services all the time. ‘Cause, yes,
blocking a whole subset of IPs for ‘bad neighborhood’ makes you a hell of a
lot more money selling "express delisting" to idiots.
11:34 a.m.
Am Mittwoch, 6. Oktober 2021 schrieb Dr. Nikolaus Klepp:
Maybe some have alredy noticed: the new EU censorship
regime is
randomly blocking mails to mailinglist like TDE. I just had a talk
with my mail provider and it's not encouraging. e.g:
How do you know its censorship and why it would be done randomly? I'd
like to know more and would appreciate a link to the source of that
information. Thank you.
My last reply to the list with the link from hunters
mail (I cannot
place the link in here, 'cause it blocks this mail) was blocked from
sending by the providers SMTP server as spam. GMX deleted the mail
without any error message. For now the filters work on the message
body, not the mail headers.
Indeed, in the last few weeks I've noticed some of my mails to tde-users
vanishing. After a couple of days I got GMX's error message (my domain
is still registered with GMX) that the message couldn't be delivered or
some such. Therefore I got the impression that the filter/whatever is
on the other side at the receiving end.
Anyway, I have registered with a local, commercial provider for little
money (jpberlin.de) and hopefully they'll handle these things more
user-friendly.
Cheers,
Stefan
3:55 p.m.
Indeed, in the last few weeks I've noticed some of
my mails to tde-users
vanishing. After a couple of days I got GMX's error message (my domain
is still registered with GMX) that the message couldn't be delivered or
some such. Therefore I got the impression that the filter/whatever is
on the other side at the receiving end.
Anyway, I have registered with a local, commercial provider for little
money (jpberlin.de) and hopefully they'll handle these things more
user-friendly.
Just wondering, is the issue with internet service providers (ISPs)
blocking the e-mails or is it the e-mail service companies? In the latter
case, would it solve it by switching to a different e-mail service, e.g.,
from GMX to gmail or similar?
Gianluca
Cheers,
Stefan
____________________________________________________
tde-users mailing list -- users(a)trinitydesktop.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
Web mail archive available at
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-----------------------------------------------------
Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca(a)u.washington.edu
+1 (206) 685 4435
http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering
University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A.
-----------------------------------------------------
4:13 p.m.
said Gianluca Interlandi:
| Just wondering, is the issue with internet service providers (ISPs)
| blocking the e-mails or is it the e-mail service companies? In the
| latter case, would it solve it by switching to a different e-mail
| service, e.g., from GMX to gmail or similar?
The email situation in general is a mess, whether from some outside
provider, from the ISP, whatever. I was reasonably happy with my ISPs
service until they farmed it out to the molding remains of AOL and Yahoo
(fronting for Verizon) who when they took over sent out a notice saying
that they'd be combing through everything to find anything they could
sell, and by using their service we agree to their doing so. (At least
they did send the notice; most places hide that stuff in legalese 14 links
into the privacy statement on their websites.) That day I switched to
ProtonMail -- I've never been back to the ISP's mail at all. I chose a
paid version because I wanted to move my domains over to them and because
I wanted the then-beta ProtonMail Bridge, which is a big wad of stuff that
lets me use my preferred mail client, in my case KMail; those two features
are not available to free accounts, where one needs to use their webmail
or something like the standalone ElectronMail webmail emulator. Those two
things work very well, but have shortcomings: they make local mail archive
storage problematic, and they make anything but top posting sheer bloody
hell.
But something like that is all that there is nowadays. Or the kind of thing
that has been discussed here involving GPG or the like, which is effective
if everybody is onboard.
--
dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album
Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
5:48 p.m.
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 6 Oct 13:34:18 +0200
Stefan Krusche scripsit:
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
Am Mittwoch, 6. Oktober 2021 schrieb Dr. Nikolaus
Klepp:
How do you know its censorship and why it would be done randomly? I'd
like to know more and would appreciate a link to the source of that
information. Thank you.
Nothing written, no. I played the gotcha-game with some clients ans Magenta today. Turned
out Magenta blocked all outgoing mails containg a URL with "propaganda" in it -
and gmx.at deleted the same mails silently. And yes, the hostname Hunter put in his list
is still blocked, too. To put things straight: both things are illegal in Austria - and
government does not give a shit on "the law".
Nik
My last reply
to the list with the link from hunters mail (I cannot
place the link in here, 'cause it blocks this mail) was blocked from
sending by the providers SMTP server as spam. GMX deleted the mail
without any error message. For now the filters work on the message
body, not the mail headers.
Indeed, in the last few weeks I've noticed some of my mails to tde-users
vanishing. After a couple of days I got GMX's error message (my domain
is still registered with GMX) that the message couldn't be delivered or
some such. Therefore I got the impression that the filter/whatever is
on the other side at the receiving end.
Anyway, I have registered with a local, commercial provider for little
money (jpberlin.de) and hopefully they'll handle these things more
user-friendly.
Cheers,
Stefan
____________________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
Web mail archive available at
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
7:52 p.m.
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Nothing written, no. I played the gotcha-game with
some clients ans
Magenta today. Turned out Magenta blocked all outgoing mails containg a
URL with "propaganda" in it - and gmx.at deleted the same mails silently.
And yes, the hostname Hunter put in his list is still blocked, too. To put
things straight: both things are illegal in Austria - and government does
not give a shit on "the law".
may be they can not manage DMARK properly
8 Oct
8 Oct
7:41 p.m.
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 6 Oct 13:34:18 +0200
Stefan Krusche scripsit:
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
Am Mittwoch, 6. Oktober 2021 schrieb Dr. Nikolaus
Klepp:
[...]
How do you know its censorship and why it would be done randomly? I'd
like to know more and would appreciate a link to the source of that
information. Thank you.
Additional information on that matter from the side of an Austrian citicen: Nobody is
allowed to peek into your email. This is called "Briefgeheinis" (confidentiality
of communications) and is a constitutional right. MAgenta in this case is violating my
constitiutinal right. I had a bief email chat with the 2. level support ("not our
problem" "solve it with Cloudmark"). It took about 5 minutes from me
sending the email hinting "censorship" and "lawsuit" to get Magenta
remove the block. It's still blocked for others.
Nik
My last reply to the list with the link from
hunters mail (I cannot
place the link in here, 'cause it blocks this mail) was blocked from
sending by the providers SMTP server as spam. GMX deleted the mail
without any error message. For now the filters work on the message
body, not the mail headers.
Indeed, in the last few weeks I've noticed some of my mails to tde-users
vanishing. After a couple of days I got GMX's error message (my domain
is still registered with GMX) that the message couldn't be delivered or
some such. Therefore I got the impression that the filter/whatever is
on the other side at the receiving end.
Anyway, I have registered with a local, commercial provider for little
money (jpberlin.de) and hopefully they'll handle these things more
user-friendly.
Cheers,
Stefan
____________________________________________________
tde-users mailing list -- users(a)trinitydesktop.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
Web mail archive available at
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
6 Oct
6 Oct
3:07 p.m.
New subject: Mail (or Bind, or ?) server config's changed roughly 9/1/21
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 02:31:59 am Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Maybe some have alredy noticed: the new EU censorship
regime is randomly
blocking mails to mailinglist like TDE. I just had a talk with my mail
provider and it's not encouraging. e.g:
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 06:34:18 am Stefan Krusche wrote:
Indeed, in the last few weeks I've noticed some of
my mails to tde-users
vanishing. After a couple of days I got GMX's error message (my domain
is still registered with GMX) that the message couldn't be delivered or
some such. Therefore I got the impression that the filter/whatever is
on the other side at the receiving end.
Hi All,
This is probably part of the recent issues with people’s emails vanishing.
Doubtfully all though.
There was a configuration change to [something, I’m kinda guessing bind by
timestamp, but really exim seems the more logical culprit] around the 1st of
September that initiated blocking previously send-able mail to those mails
being blocked by “Deferred: 451 Temporary local problem.”
Two major issues with this, 1) the reject mail didn’t go anywhere off box*,
and 2) that message means little to a regular user.
* I had some mail being mailed and received by the same server, so was able to
see it in the logs.
I ended up putting sendmail into debug mode on two different servers to find
out that ultimately it was a bind lookup stating the sender domain could not
be verified, at which point sendmail couldn't/wouldn’t send it and would send
the error/reply at bottom.
The fix was to fix any issues you have with the sending email address's DNS.
Which if you have a third party provider, or they have internal pass through
servers, you can’t do, but for those of you who can here’s some commands that
should help.
# dig NS "$DOMAIN"
# dig @ns1.example.com "$DOMAIN"
# dig "$DOMAIN"
# echo "Subject: send mail to me" | sendmail -v myaddress(a)example.com
Note: Sendmail is kinda slow? Give it a couple/three minutes to complete its
thing. When you feel it should be done, hit “Enter” once to get your command
prompt back.
# # #
Think your ISP/mail host/government is censoring you?
Hosting your own domain for mail is 25-50 USD per year. Might even be
basically free (<$10) with dynamic DNS.
I am/do not affiliated/work for this company. Porkbun.com sells .com domains
at cost, but you can find TLDs for 3 or 4 USD per year as well.]
# # #
In the global scheme of things, the change would seem to actually reduce spam
loads (hopefully?), but ‘eh, who knows, spammers have never had problems
faking the sending email address anyway...
Hope that helps and lets see if this makes it through the new email maze...
Best,
Michael
Sanitized copy of error/reply mail:
Subject: Warning: could not send message for past 4 hours
Date: 09/01/21 12:50:24
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@{deleted}>
To: root@{deleted}
The original message was received at Wed, 1 Sep 2021 08:42:33 -0500
from localhost [127.0.0.1]
----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to {deleted}.:
>> DATA
<<< 451 Temporary local
problem - please try later
srv09_csf@{deleted}... Deferred: 451 Temporary local problem - please try
later
<<< 503-All RCPT commands were rejected with this error:
<<< 503-Temporary local problem - please try later
<<< 503 Valid RCPT command must precede DATA
Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours
Will keep trying until message is 5 days old
Return-Path: {deleted}
...
3:21 p.m.
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 02:31:59 am Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
So my question: Can we set up a gnupgp public key to
the list, so that the
mails cannot be suppressed by the cencorship mail content filters? The
encrypted mails can be decryptied automaticly and the fed into the
mailinglist.
Second.
I'd prefer it be gnupgp end to end though. We’d need Slavik’s input for what
can really be done, but it shouldn’t be too hard to generate a public/private
key set that can be shared to the whole group.
3:52 p.m.
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 08:21:31 Michael wrote:
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 02:31:59 am Dr. Nikolaus
Klepp wrote:
We all ought to be using encryption for our emails, anyway. (I mean, in some
more perfect world; in a really perfect world, we wouldn't have to worry
about snooping or blocking or censorship or predatory ISPs ... but I
digress.)
It would be good if we can get something like this set up; and a learning
experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for our emails.
Bill
So my question: Can we set up a gnupgp public key
to the list, so that
the mails cannot be suppressed by the cencorship mail content filters?
The encrypted mails can be decryptied automaticly and the fed into the
mailinglist.
Second.
I'd prefer it be gnupgp end to end though. We’d need Slavik’s input for
what can really be done, but it shouldn’t be too hard to generate a
public/private key set that can be shared to the whole group.
4:02 p.m.
said William Morder via tde-users:
| It would be good if we can get something like this set up; and a
| learning experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for
| our emails.
I agree. And, yeah, the trick would be crystal-clear setup instructions.
I've played with gpg a little over the years and through, probably, my own
lack of knowledge haven't found it useful, but would welcome getting
dissuaded from this notion.
--
dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album
Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
6:05 p.m.
On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 08:52:25 -0700
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
It's also an additional barrier for anyone attempting to join the list.
And this list is the main help channel for TDE, so it behooves us to
keep it as barrier-free as possible.
E. Liddell
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 08:21:31 Michael wrote:
I'd prefer
it be gnupgp end to end though. We’d need Slavik’s input for
what can really be done, but it shouldn’t be too hard to generate a
public/private key set that can be shared to the whole group.
We all ought to be using encryption for our emails, anyway. (I mean, in some
more perfect world; in a really perfect world, we wouldn't have to worry
about snooping or blocking or censorship or predatory ISPs ... but I
digress.)
It would be good if we can get something like this set up; and a learning
experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for our emails.
6:32 p.m.
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 6 Oct 14:05:40 -0400
E. Liddell scripsit:
On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 08:52:25 -0700
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
It's also an additional barrier for anyone attempting to join the list.
And this list is the main help channel for TDE, so it behooves us to
keep it as barrier-free as possible.
I would not propose to make it a closed list with encrypted-mails only. I would just add
the possibility to send encrypted mail to the list, just in case "something"
thinks your (or my) unencrypted mail is bad.
BTW, I don't know if gnupg is good at handling lots of recipients with different
public keys as each recepient adds ~ 500 byte to the message size.
Nik
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 08:21:31 Michael
wrote:
I'd
prefer it be gnupgp end to end though. We’d need Slavik’s input for
what can really be done, but it shouldn’t be too hard to generate a
public/private key set that can be shared to the whole group.
We all ought to be using encryption for our emails, anyway. (I mean, in some
more perfect world; in a really perfect world, we wouldn't have to worry
about snooping or blocking or censorship or predatory ISPs ... but I
digress.)
It would be good if we can get something like this set up; and a learning
experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for our emails.
E. Liddell
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--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
7:03 p.m.
It would be
good if we can get something like this set up; and a learning
experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for our emails.
It's also an additional barrier for anyone attempting to join the list.
And this list is the main help channel for TDE, so it behooves us to
keep it as barrier-free as possible.
E. Liddell
7:53 p.m.
On Wed, 6 Oct 2021, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On this point, I am of two minds.
True enough, we ought to keep the mailing list free of barriers to newbies,
and a few years ago I would have been among those excluded; on the other
hand, it seems inevitable that most email providers, or corporate emails, or
mailing lists, or private individuals, will *all* have to make similar
changes sometime in the near future.
The premise, or hope, is that the government will not block encrypted
e-mail as well. A while ago when I moved to the United States I was told
by my bank in my home country that they would have to block e-banking on
my account because the US does not allow certain encryption protocols.
Hopefully not, but we may end up at the mercy of big tech companies for
our communication. Some people at work have started using Slack, which
promises to "improve your productivity", but then they make you pay for
every single extra feature, not really cheap and they are not upfront
about it either.
Gianluca
It would
be good if we can get something like this set up; and a learning
experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for our emails.
It's also an additional barrier for anyone attempting to join the list.
And this list is the main help channel for TDE, so it behooves us to
keep it as barrier-free as possible.
E. Liddell I don't mean that we ought to force members of the
list to use encryption;
it's not one of those "if you plan to live another 10 years" arguments.
But
either email* will be transformed into some kind of total-encryption rule, or
people will find other, more secure and private, ways to communicate.
Now that the cat is out of the bag (about surveillance, blocking, censorship,
etc.), people have started to demand more protections, respect for their
privacy, and so on. If the public were still ignorant of the degree of
snooping by governments and corporations, then maybe things could continue as
they were; but either everything becomes encrypted, or people will just stop
playing along and pretending that it's okay.
If nothing else, we ought to consider taking intermediate steps (but then,
there is no "sort-of encryption"!), or formulate some kind of plan, to get
from here to there. Otherwise, consider the alternative: that we are always
at the mercy of corporations or governments who may not have our best
interests in mind.
There are providers (such as ProtonMail?) where encryption is automatic, and
end-to-end, and the users only need to set it up, but after that they just
send and receive emails as usual. That would be ideal, since it wouldn't be
too daunting for inexperienced users.
Not so long ago, I considered buying my own server. (There is some brand by
name of Helm that sounded good.) That way I could be my own host, and not
have to worry about keeping logs and all that other stuff, and if anybody
interfered, I could just say no. But it seemed like too much work for myself
alone. I also considered setting up some kind of group, so that we might
share costs and maintenance and admin duties, but again this would require
more use of email in order to justify the expense and work.
So while these two extremes (no encryption or total encryption) may look
irreconcilable, I believe that we will all eventually move into a
totally-encrypted future, because DUH, everybody knows why.
Bill
P.S. *and probably the whole Internet, and any other kind of digital
activities, including "smart" devices in the home, etc.
____________________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
Web mail archive available at
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-----------------------------------------------------
Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca(a)u.washington.edu
+1 (206) 685 4435
http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering
University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A.
-----------------------------------------------------
7:37 p.m.
I think that the mailing list may not be the best way to reach users, although its
certainly more active than the IRC channel. As an alternative, I have a TDE Matrix room if
anyone is interested and it needs to grow: #trinity-desktop:halogen.city
On October 6, 2021 1:05:40 PM CDT, "E. Liddell" <ejlddll(a)warpmail.net>
wrote:
On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 08:52:25 -0700
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
It's also an additional barrier for anyone attempting to join the list.
And this list is the main help channel for TDE, so it behooves us to
keep it as barrier-free as possible.
E. Liddell
____________________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
Web mail archive available at
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On Wednesday 06 October 2021 08:21:31 Michael
wrote:
I'd
prefer it be gnupgp end to end though. We’d need Slavik’s input for
what can really be done, but it shouldn’t be too hard to generate a
public/private key set that can be shared to the whole group.
We all ought to be using encryption for our emails, anyway. (I mean, in some
more perfect world; in a really perfect world, we wouldn't have to worry
about snooping or blocking or censorship or predatory ISPs ... but I
digress.)
It would be good if we can get something like this set up; and a learning
experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for our emails.
7 Oct
7 Oct
7:19 a.m.
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 06 Oct 14:37:41 -0500
Hunter via tde-users scripsit:
I think that the mailing list may not be the best way
to reach users, although its certainly more active than the IRC channel. As an
alternative, I have a TDE Matrix room if anyone is interested and it needs to grow:
#trinity-desktop:halogen.city
I might sound ignorant, but what's a "Matrix room"?
Nik
On October 6, 2021 1:05:40 PM CDT, "E. Liddell" <ejlddll(a)warpmail.net>
wrote:
>On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 08:52:25 -0700
>William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday 06 October 2021 08:21:31 Michael wrote:
>
>> > I'd prefer it be gnupgp end to end though. We’d need Slavik’s input
for
>> > what can really be done, but it shouldn’t be too hard to generate a
>> > public/private key set that can be shared to the whole group.
>>
>> We all ought to be using encryption for our emails, anyway. (I mean, in some
>> more perfect world; in a really perfect world, we wouldn't have to worry
>> about snooping or blocking or censorship or predatory ISPs ... but I
>> digress.)
>>
>> It would be good if we can get something like this set up; and a learning
>> experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for our emails.
>
>It's also an additional barrier for anyone attempting to join the list.
>And this list is the main help channel for TDE, so it behooves us to
>keep it as barrier-free as possible.
>
>E. Liddell
>____________________________________________________
>tde-users mailing list -- users(a)trinitydesktop.org
>To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
>Web mail archive available at
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
4:05 p.m.
On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 09:19:05 +0200
"Dr. Nikolaus Klepp" <dr.klepp(a)gmx.at> wrote:
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 06 Oct 14:37:41 -0500
Hunter via tde-users scripsit:
I assume it's an on-line venue accessible through the matrix messaging network
(see matrix.org ).
E. Liddell
I think that the mailing list may not be the best
way to reach users, although its certainly more active than the IRC channel. As an
alternative, I have a TDE Matrix room if anyone is interested and it needs to grow:
#trinity-desktop:halogen.city
I might sound ignorant, but what's a "Matrix room"? 
6 Oct
6 Oct
8:03 p.m.
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 11:52:25 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 08:21:31 Michael wrote:
+10, Bill, somebody had to say it. We need someone to tutor us.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
On Wednesday 06 October 2021 02:31:59 am Dr.
Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
We all ought to be using encryption for our emails, anyway. (I mean,
in some more perfect world; in a really perfect world, we wouldn't
have to worry about snooping or blocking or censorship or predatory
ISPs ... but I digress.)
It would be good if we can get something like this set up; and a
learning experience, too, for those of us who don't use encryption for
our emails.
Bill So my question: Can we set up a gnupgp public key
to the list, so
that the mails cannot be suppressed by the cencorship mail content
filters? The encrypted mails can be decryptied automaticly and the
fed into the mailinglist.
Second.
I'd prefer it be gnupgp end to end though. We’d need Slavik’s input
for what can really be done, but it shouldn’t be too hard to
generate a public/private key set that can be shared to the whole
group.
942
days inactive
944
days old
23 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
deloptes -
dep -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
E. Liddell -
Edward -
Gene Heskett -
Gianluca Interlandi -
Hunter -
Michael -
Stefan Krusche -
Steven D'Aprano -
William Morder