Hi Guys, On Tuesday 21 April 2020 16:48:02 Michael wrote: I need a couple of new Polo shirts ! My Fisher island ones are on their last legs. Not bad for nearly 20 years ! And they still fit me. Only too happy to support TDE... -- Best Regards: Baron. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

Thierry de Coulon wrote: I was thinking of crowd funding and getting all of them at once. 29 looks like single unit. if you have more to order could be even less and with crowd funding you can get a finite number of the shirts I would also buy depending on the type of payment (don't have paypal or similar) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: the imprinting (I think this is the term) in small quantities cost more and the quality is also important. I wouldn't buy something in this price range, also if possibly not made in China or Bangladesh or similar, but this might be too much. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On Tuesday 21 April 2020 11:25:48 deloptes wrote: In US, we may run into such a dilemma. If made in a sweatshot (by indentured workers, i.e., slaves, or children, or people kept in cages and starving), it will only end in bad publicity, and TDE would not look good in the press. If not made in such a place - but rather made by workers who are treated right and paid enough, who work in decent conditions - they will be exorbitantly expensive, and nobody can afford them. I buy most of my stuff as second-hand shops, anyway, so if I see some TDE polo shirts or t-shirts after a couple more years, then I will definitely buy them, if they are in my size. (By the way, I am built like a football player, although hardly in the same shape that I was 40 years ago. What are the sizes available? Looking for XXXL in US sizes ...) Bill --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On Wednesday 22 April 2020 10.57:14 David C. Rankin wrote: Well the question is: who's in charge? I can hardly discuss this with Gabor Kum for TDE, being only a TDE user. Should I ask him to make a proposal, and then who's supposed to receive this proposal? Thierry --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On Wednesday 22 April 2020 12.43:52 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: Obviously (and as I expected) this does not wake a big interest and I don't really have time to invest (I don't know the man and I am not part to his business) so let's drop it. If anyone is interrested in the site's address ask me (or search for Gabor Kum). Thierry --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On Wednesday 22 April 2020 09:57:57 am William Morder via trinity-users wrote: I've the same issues as Bill. I've found this: "The TDE project was founded by and is still led by Timothy Pearson. Timothy is an experienced and skilled software developer and was the KDE 3.x coordinator of previous Kubuntu releases." So my best GUESS is that Timothy is the one who gets donations. But... The last time I offered website/hosting/mirroring support I didn’t get a reply [1]. The last time (most likely ever time actually) I donated I got nothing back as an acknowledgment. Both are really off putting. The last time I can find donations in TDE ‘news’ is 2012 (twice), but even for the $2,241.50 [2] collected there is no ‘who donated list.’ ‘who donated lists’ being one of the biggest ways to get businesses to donate, as they get a link back and positive public relations. MX Linux seemed at least interested in having TDE bundled in their releases alongside Xfce, but who on this side would coordinate that? Timothy? Like most here I’d like TDE to have a wider exposure and acceptance, but Timothy himself seems to be the biggest limiting factors to that. What to do? Got no idea, it seems to be up to Timothy? Best All, Michael [1] I own: Internet Design Alliance, http://inet-design.com/ Services include: Fully Managed Dedicated Servers Fully Managed Drupal Hosting FailOver Backup and High Availability Solutions DNS clustering So it’s not like I don’t routinely have ‘spare capacity’ to donate. So getting nothing as a reply did leave me a bit ‘butthurt.’ [2] https://www.trinitydesktop.org/newsentry.php?entry=2012.05.01 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On Wednesday 22 April 2020 11:11:27 am William Morder via trinity-users wrote: ;) I've been told 'crap' is my favorite word, the above was highly amusing https://www.trinitydesktop.org/donate.php I tried it, it works :) Copy/Pasta messages: Donate to kb9vqf(a)pearsoncomputing.net Purpose: Trinity Desktop Development and Hosting Costs TDEWEB001 You've donated $10.00 USD to kb9vqf(a)pearsoncomputing.net We'll send you back to kb9vqf(a)pearsoncomputing.net in a few seconds. Return to kb9vqf(a)pearsoncomputing.net Thank you for your donation to the Trinity Desktop project!  Your funding will help to create an even better TDE experience into the future. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On Wednesday 22 April 2020 01:20:43 pm William Morder via trinity-users wrote: Did PayPal. But I have a PayPal business account (where PayPal knows my IP/Browser), so it was just a sign-in and click type event. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On 04/22/2020 05:34 AM, Thierry de Coulon wrote: What we have done in the past is everybody kick in money to Tim and he has taken care of what was needed from a funding standpoint for TDE (2012-2015/16 timeframe - much of the actual funding had just been Tim to that point). I understand Tim is taking a well earned break. The t-shirt issue sounded like an opportunity to augment or supplement whatever funding is needed for the miscellaneous expenses TDE has. Since that time I also see that TDE has garnered a few sites and sponsors that help with mirroring, etc.. which was what the bulk of what the original funds were used for (as well as hardware). Between, Kate, Slavek, and one or two others I still recognize, there should be a way to either get direction from Tim or make a decision on how and what is needed going forward. I haven't checked if TDE has any formal organization behind it that was created in the past few years, but if not, doing a quick non-profit may make sense. That would at least provide continuity as key folks come and go given the demands they have in the working world. And would provide a bit of structure to coordinate where effort is needed and to help offload the folks that now wear all the hats at once. So "Who's on first?", I don't know at this point, I've had just a peripheral presence since I stopped building for Arch, but I can provide this as food-for-thought as something that would provide a long-term answer to that question as well as a way to perhaps streamline and coordinate all of the various efforts that are required for TDE to be TDE. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 21:46:20 -0500 Michael <mb_trinity_desktop(a)inet-design.com> wrote: In theory, we should probably incorporate, but this introduces accounting and tax-reporting requirements we haven't had to deal with up to this point. Still, we should move away from any single person being solely responsible for managing funds and resources—that's why we have a problem in the first place. One thing that has to be worked through if we set up a not-for-profit is *where* to do it. While a lot of TDE's users are American, a lot of the developers seem to be European (judging from email addresses and style of English usage). There are likely to be advantages and disadvantages to setting up in each jurisdiction. And the US is not a single jurisdiction: each state is different. Selling TDE swag in return for funds could be fine in many places. That's one of the things we'd need to find out. (Also, "not-for-profit" != "charity"—the latter have stricter rules to follow, but TDE would not be one.) So, what would the money the Trinity Desktop Environment Project, Inc. acquires be paid out for? -hosting -having someone do the accounting and make required corporate reports -publicity and outreach? -salary for one or more full-time devs, if we were to grow that much? -other? And sources of income would be . . . -donations -sales of swag (shirts, coffee mugs, bumper stickers, mouse pads . . .) -technical support of TDE in larger deployments, à la Red Hat? -paid feature requests? And the next step would be research of the rules governing not-for-profits in the jurisdictions of people actually willing to do the *work* associated with setting up such a corporation (filing documents, paying fees, maybe an hour or two with a lawyer if necessary). I found the government how-to handbook for my jurisdiction with a single search on duckduckgo. Not all governments have this information on-line, but many should have. E. Liddell --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On Thursday 23 April 2020 09:32:36 am Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: Unless Timothy (Tim?, what’s he like to be called by?) completely declines he should be the titular head, even if he never does anything else with TDE. Others elected/appointed can ‘do the work’ so to speak. Okay, my opinion, otherwise it’d be insanely rude to Timothy :( I’m a US citizen and I’d heavily recommend to not do [TDE-ORG] in the USA. Rules and regulations are excessive and expensive to comply with. - Back pay? Figure out how much work has been done by who (number of commits?), how much it’s worth, what a total for all of that would be, and set aside [~25%?] of future donations to pay it off. As long as we all agree, pretty much anything. I’d suggest anyone interested in wanting to donate their time to doing the paperwork/bookkeeping do what Nik did and outlined their local requirements so we can talk it out and decide what/where makes the most sense for [TDE-ORG]. The world is a pretty small place now, so unless someone has an objection, anywhere that is cheap/easy seems ideal. # # # On a negative example note, the [TDE-ORG] bylaws/charter/TOS ‘stuff’ probably needs a constraint so the project doesn’t do a ‘Drupal’ where the Drupal Association literally dumped and ejected all the historical user base in favor of the top corporate donors. Based on that, I’d personally be somewhat against a ‘à la Red Hat’ model. * Best All, Michael * Besides which I just had to build three CentOS 7 servers with systemd and that thing is one piece of crap. So big middle finger to Red Hat for shoving that down peoples’ throats. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On Thursday 23 April 2020 19.44:49 William Morder via trinity-users wrote: +1 :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

snipping everything down to Open Collective On Thursday 23 April 2020 07:26:00 pm Slávek Banko wrote: Hi Slávek, Yeah, I'm one of those MBA wienies that looks at the bottom line first then the capabilities. Open Collective’s fees seem a bit high? $10 per month, plus 7.9% + 30¢ per successful card charge 30 cents at the $10 payment level is 3%, so average costs will probably be around ~11% of receipts. https://opencollective.com/pricing https://stripe.com/pricing # # # These kind of decisions are always a trade off, personally I’d go with Open Collective to begin with, but if the [TDE-ORG] starts getting decent funding I’d move on to something else. (Again personally) I’d suggest https://civicrm.org/ on https://backdropcms.org/ for the ‘later’ as the fees then are: Discounted rate for eligible charities, 2.2% + $0.30 per transaction (average costs will probably be around ~6% of receipts.) https://www.paypal.com/en/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees But, as that would be later, the group will probably come up with something better by then. And I somewhat agree with you on holding off on this whole discussion, but I think it’s probably actually helpful to get it most of it discussed before we approach Timothy. Best All, Michael --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

Anno domini 2020 Fri, 24 Apr 04:17:12 +0200 Slávek Banko scripsit: This is kind of service is the most expensive you can get, leaving aside the legal implications. A professinal bookkeeper for a costs you ~ 300.- / year for simple bookkeeping (again: Austria) - that is, if you feel overhelmed with dooing simple bookkeeping yourself. If going for legal, how should these companies handle local laws? To which laws ate they bound? What's with VAT? civicrm.org --> US backdropcms.org --> US opencollective.com --> US stripe.com --> UK Choos your poison. -- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

Anno domini 2020 Fri, 24 Apr 11:07:30 +0200 Slávek Banko scripsit: The question still is: what problem can you sove with a paied service like that? You still need a legal framework to use it. And when you have the framework, what's the point in those services? Nik -- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On Friday 24 April 2020 01:15:14 am Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: Ah, I see I didn't transfer my thoughts well :( civicrm.org and backdropcms.org are free platforms that can be used to replicate an Open Collective reporting system. The jurisdiction of either has nothing to do with [TDE-ORG] (or any of their other users). The rates were PayPal, those rates don’t apply to checks and any other monies that can be processed by the bank the [TDE-ORG] checking account is with. They are both what I am moving my own site and the vast majority of my clients to in preparations for Drupal 7 going end of life in November 2021. (It may claim to be for NGOs, but it’s also used by commercial entities for it’s completeness of functions.) My unwritten assumption was that I was the one building/hosting/upgrading/managing the civicrm and backdropcms site, hence it was ‘free’ to the [TDE-ORG]. The other unwritten bits were that civicrm is able to replace much of the scattered functions TDE has today into a single, integrated, space. [1] [TDE-ORG] would need at least: - legal status as a non-profit - checking account(s) [TDE-ORG] could use: - someone who can read and do simple math for a tax return Creating [TDE-ORG] as a non-profit is not exceptionally difficult (even in the US [2]), it’s just a matter of reading, filling out forms, and paying a filing fee. If we even need help with that, we can ask any other Linux/tech related NGO questions. Best, Michael [1] The CiviCRM User Guide: Note: It needs a much better TOC, the ‘Next’ topic link is bottom-right on the page. https://docs.civicrm.org/user/en/latest/introduction/what-is-civicrm/ [2] Huh, the Amazon Smile thing seems to only be for USA based non-profits? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On Friday 24 April 2020 01:03:50 pm Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: Yeah, US sucks... California: $75 to $600+ Tennessee: Incorporation: $100, charitable registration: $50 ($0 if exempt) Texas: Incorporation: $25 See [1] for other states. Plus 501(c) IRS fee: https://www.irs.gov/irb/2020-01_IRB#idm139960914697360 Application for recognition of exemption under § 501(c)(3): $275 or $600 (4) Canadian registered charities None Note: In accordance with the income tax treaty between the United States and Canada, Canadian registered charities are automatically recognized as exempt under § 501(c)(3) without filing an application for exemption. For details, see Notice 99-47, 1999-2 C.B. 391. Therefore, no user fee is required when a Canadian registered charity submits all or part of a Form 1023 to be listed in Tax Exempt Organization Search database for organizations eligible to receive tax-deductible charitable contributions (Pub. 78 data), or for a determination on its private foundation status. Which lead me here: https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/charities-giving/charities… 1. Is there a fee to become registered? No. We have any Canadians on the list? That can track down what paperwork is required? Seems like a way to slip in the back door to get an IRS EIN to be eligible for Amazon Smile (and the like). Especially if it really is basically ‘costless.’ Back to the salt mines, Michael PS: Much of this is fairly relevant to a private library project I have under consideration, so anyone who’s made contributions on this start a NGO/charity thread, please send me a private email with a copy/paste of what you’ve written and I’ll tag you for free membership/swag (when it gets setup). [1] https://nonprofithub.org/human-resources/the-cost-of-starting-a-nonprofit-i… --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

Is it possible to stop now all these hundred mail with the subject above. This is not the subject of this list = Tde-Trinity. Thank. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On Friday 24 of April 2020 20:03:50 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: Hi Nik, all, I dare to disagree with a number of opinions. Tim founded the project, Tim was its leader, Tim agreed to hand over the role of project leader. As far as I know, there is no registered trademark for which Tim would be its holder. Therefore, I believe that there is no reason to claim that only Tim is the legal holder for project. Tim, as an ordinary natural person, handed over the role of project leader, so I don't find a reason to call it a fork. Similar to your opinion that only Tim is legal to accept donations. Tim is only a natural person and so far he accepts donations as a natural person on some of his account. He is not an organization. He is the founder of the project. A project for which other natural persons have taken responsibility for its continuation. I do not agree that the only way for a TDE project to accept donations and manage funds is to create our own organization. Obviously, there are at least two possible variants: 1. Create our own organization and take responsibility for all legal matters relating to the status of the organization. 2. Leave the project as a team and use a fiscal host. This is the same principle as projects associated with organizations such as the Freedom Software Conservancy, the Apache Foundation, the Linux Foundation and also Open Collective. As I see in the comments from others involved in the discussion, for the creation of our own organization, some claim that it is quite simple, others claim that there are many problem points - the choice of continent, country, state, legislation,... so a lot of problems. Do you really want to deal with that? In addition, do you really want to deal with the fact that it will then be necessary to monitor changes in the legislation of a selected country so that the organization does not neglect any new regulations of the law? Who would want to do that? Because it is important for us to work on a project and not to deal with legal matters, bookkeeping, and so on, the option with a fiscal host seems to me to be definitely more advantageous. Cheers -- Slávek

Anno domini 2020 Sat, 25 Apr 03:01:11 +0200 Slávek Banko scripsit: If you stay under US law, "legal hosts" may be a way to go. If you don't, this concept does not exist. Nik -- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On Saturday 25 April 2020 04:04:09 deloptes wrote: Ideally, out of respect to those readers who want to be about ONLY TDE-Trinity technical matters (and NOTHING MORE): We really ought to have something like a forum, where such matters can be given free rein, without annoying them who don't want to read our dreaming and scheming. Readers can just skim over the threads, and choose what to read, or not. When it's like this, where everything gets sent out to the mailing list, and annoys some of the subscribers, well that's just not good for anybody concerned. But so this is where we are, and we can try to deal with it. Apologies to all who take offense; what follows is both verbose and prolix, and moreover, uses too many words. Myself, I would agree that less involvement with the business side of matters is definitely preferable. Who, after all, wants to keep the accounts, pay for servers, hosting, etc.? However, somebody does something now, or we wouldn't be here; so it seems to me that it is rather a question of how to bring it all out into the open, allowing members to get involved, if they have something to contribute in the way of resource, skills, background, knowledge, or useful business/legal connections. I do not want to see TDE taken over by a gang of Suits, who only see it from the point of view of business; I believe any business or legal arrangements ought to serve the collective interests of furthering development of the Trinity desktop, rather than TDE serving business or similar interests in profit or whatever. However, to take only the matter of branding: If TDE is to be circulated and promoted along side other desktops, gets included in the mainstream repositories such as Debian, Ubuntu, etc., then we will eventually be forced to establish copyright over logos, and any other unique details of design, and so on. This means that we will need at least some involvement in the dirty world of business. Otherwise, we create polo shirts and coffee mugs and mouse mats: but for what purpose, except to raise a little money, to keep development going forward, to ensure that TDE will still be available in the future, so that we all don't end up being forced to use ... ? some other desktop? If I recall, Mozilla (for example) is, or used to be, a non-profit organization. Just because a business is set up as a non-profit doesn't mean that they cannot make money; it just means that the nature of their business aims primarily at a public good, or a service to community. Some non-profit businesses in the US can make BILLIONS of dollars (e.g., hospitals and such); so much so, that the notion of "non-profit" seems rather like a word-game, that it is really just a trick to avoid taxes, and meanwhile the smaller non-profit businesses are sometimes overburdened with paperwork. In any case, there is no point in creating T-shirts, or any other items with TDE logo, name, catch-phrases, etc., if we do not consider these matters of branding and copyright. We might recall that Mozilla got all upset not so much that other people forked their project to create Seamonkey, Iceweasel, Icecat, etc.; but rather that they wanted changes in both name and logos. It was a conflict over branding and who owns the logos and names. And to take care of those matters, we will need some sort of legal framework and business structure; as well as a name, a place, and local address to call home, where mail gets sent, and so on. That can be a post office box, and whoever collects the mail can also keep the books, so long as there are some guidelines. And I agree with Nik that it seems best to avoid US jurisdictions, if possible. (I hear, through the grapevine, that Delaware is a good state to incorporate for businesses; I don't know if it is preferable for non-profits, but the information can be found.) In any case, we might think hard before establishing business in the US. Wait until the dust settles from all the weirdness going on here in the States ... say, another 20 or 30 years? ... before putting down roots here in the US, and our states might not be called "united" by that time. Moreover, legislators have very little understanding of their computers and smartphones actually work: witness the controversies over encryption and such. But then, so we decide (for example) to keep it as simple as possible, to use a fiscal host (as Slavek recommends). Now let's say that somebody in Germany has set up an operation to manufacture and sell T-shirts and polo shirts; another person, in France, is creating coffee mugs, some others in Russia have made TDE mouse mats; and meanwhile we have people in the US who want to buy these items, or otherwise contribute some money to the cause. How do we establish our name, slogans or catch-phrases, any kind of design copyright, unless we have some kind of legal framework, business structure, and a local address in some nation or other? Moreover, when these cottage industries manufacture TDE swag, how do we funnel the extra funds (above basic expenses) into an account where it may be used to further the development of TDE? Or shall we expect that these various operations will just hand it over out of the goodness of their hearts? What if they decide unilaterally to change something in design of TDE logo, name, slogans, etc.? for example, to promote a private agenda (political, religious, etc.), or if their products are just plain crap, and an embarrassment to the rest of us? All of these issues imply the need of some kind of legal framework and business structure. And I, out of everybody here, avoid that stuff like the plague. Nothing kills creativity so fast as when, for example, a group of Suits walk into a recording session; and I don't imagine that the Suits are much different in any other kind of creative work. But there it is. We need to have some kind of place, a locale in the real world, and this means getting entangled with local laws and government and business practices. As for *where* might be most suitable for our needs? I don't know, Switzerland? Belize? Grenada? the Bahamas? I hear that there are some abandoned or unclaimed rigs off the coast of the UK and Europe, and there is some spot of land that is not claimed by any nation, somewhere in Eastern Europe, if I recall. We could wait and hope that somebody discovers the mythical kingdom of Shambala ... that's always a possibility. Apologies for the length, but that's my rant. Bill --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

Hi All, {snip it all!} Let’s work together, not against each other. We seem to be [excessively?] debating over details that, in the big picture, aren’t that productive. Bullet pointing [as I see it]: - We all want to be able to use TDE [for the rest of our lives]. - NO one is going to be asked to deal with issues they don’t want to deal with. - A clearer definition of the TDE structure seems to be something [most?] of us want. - A clearer definition of the TDE structure is something some of us need [for taxes]. - The release of TDE R14.0.8 is more important than this discussion [in the short term]. - - To that end no decision can be made until well after .8 is released [so everyone can catch up]. If we can “leave the project as a team and use a fiscal host” that would be the easiest and most convenient and seems to solve all our short term needs. If at some later date, it’s not working out the way we want, we can move to a more independent structure. Unfortunately we don’t have enough hard information about what a ‘fiscal host’ is or does, but that information can be gathered prior to .8 being released [by people not involved in .8]. # # # I’m asking for a single volunteer for the below, so that the info dig isn’t repeated a dozen times and gitea isn’t bombarded with the same question(s) from a dozen people. In that respect would someone, besides Slávek ;), volunteer to dig through the: https://opencollective.com/gitea/ documentation and summarize for the rest of us [please include reference links!] how gitea: - Explicitly exempts TDE from needing a legal structure of its own. - What TDE needs to do to join. - What, if any, other requirements need to be met: - - For joining - - For ongoing membership - Does using gitea constrain TDE from becoming independent later? # # # First to volunteer by timestamp gets it? But do wait a day or so before info digging so everyone else (who’s interested) can add whatever else they think we might need to know about gitea before we ‘join’ them. And as several other have noted, this is important to TDE, but it’s sucking way too much of my time atm... Best All!, Michael --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On Sunday 26 of April 2020 19:07:23 Michael wrote: Just a few notes: 1. Gitea != Open Collective. This has been cited as one example of who also uses Open Collective platform. Similarly, the Manjaro distribution could be an example - see https://opencollective.com/manjaro Note that Gitea uses the fiscal host located in the US, Manjaro uses the fiscal host located in the EU. 2. Yesterday and partly today, I spent a lot of time finding out more details about Open Collective and also Software Freedom Conservancy. So I'm ready to make some more detailed summary of the pros and cons. However, it must wait a while - probably to time after the release of R14.0.8 (it will be in a few days). Cheers -- Slávek

I will forget this if I don't post it now :( This is copy/pasta from a project I have in house atm. ==== Public Libraries? Yes we allow public libraries to ‘buy’ accounts for their patrons. Either you as an individual, your organization, or the library itself can pay to make that happen. We, obviously, must work directly with the library in question to setup API calls and the like for patron verification. A somewhat painless way to get your public library funded is to use Amazon Smile (and other similar programs). You will need to coordinate with your library, but see About Amazon Smile ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=202035970 ) and https://org.amazon.com/ for information. ==== Amazon Smile would be a great/easy method to generate ‘cash,’ our household spends ~2k USD per year which would be ~10 to [TDE-ORG]. # # # Hmmm, now I really do want to know where the best place to establish cheap NGOs would be... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: I was also thinking of Austria - so you can count on me - we need just one more. And I am off the statistics as I am (still) not a member of not-for-profit --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting