26 Nov
2011
26 Nov
'11
4:15 p.m.
Hello,
I think another thing on all of our minds should be towards dealing with
the problems related to sudo. As we know not all distros support it, and
also removing sudo in cases can remove the entire trinity install, wreak
havoc and other terrible things.
Do we have a plan for this? Tim what needs to be done?
Calvin
26 Nov
26 Nov
4:30 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] the state of sudo
On Saturday 26 November 2011 11:15:19 am Calvin Morrison wrote:
Hello,
I think another thing on all of our minds should be towards dealing with
the problems related to sudo. As we know not all distros support it, and
also removing sudo in cases can remove the entire trinity install, wreak
havoc and other terrible things.
Do we have a plan for this? Tim what needs to be done?
Some people don't even use sudo, and not all distros use it, even if they have it
installed by default.
I don't think sudo should be a dependency.
Also, why does trinity have it's own sudo? I'd think it should be able to find it
in $PATH?
--
Kristopher Gamrat
Ark Linux webmaster
http://www.arklinux.org/
6:31 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] the state of sudo
I don't think sudo should be a dependency.
It only is a dependency on distributions that use sudo in their core
packages such as Ubuntu.
Also, why does trinity have it's own sudo? I'd think it should be able to
find it in $PATH?
Look up the sudo RPATH "feature". Basically if the application is not
present in /usr/bin or a handful of other hardcoded directories sudo won't
find it.
Tim
6:42 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] the state of sudo
On Saturday 26 November 2011 01:31:45 pm Timothy Pearson wrote:
I never heard of RPATH.
Wouldn't it be possible to include the binaries in /opt/trinity/bin in the sudoers
file? If sudoers doesn't accept wildcards like '*', that would be impractical,
but if so, that should be possible without having to replace the distro's sudo. Some
distro maintainers won't be happy with us interfering with their sudo packages (or,
generally, more packages than absolutely necessary, or really any packages at all, and
might refuse support to unofficial packages if they interfere with official packages).
--
Kristopher Gamrat
Ark Linux webmaster
http://www.arklinux.org/
I don't
think sudo should be a dependency.
It only is a dependency on distributions that use sudo in their core
packages such as Ubuntu.
Also, why does trinity have it's own sudo? I'd think it should be able to
find it in $PATH?
Look up the sudo RPATH "feature". Basically if the application is not
present in /usr/bin or a handful of other hardcoded directories sudo won't
find it. 
7:33 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] the state of sudo
Le 26/11/2011 19:31, Timothy Pearson a écrit :
What are the trinity executables that really need to run with sudo?
(I have no /opt/trinity/sbin and apps in /opt/trinity/bin may be run with
sudo `which ...`.)
--
Laurent Dard
I don't
think sudo should be a dependency.
It only is a dependency on distributions that use sudo in their core
packages such as Ubuntu.
Also, why does trinity have it's own sudo? I'd think it should be able to
find it in $PATH?
Look up the sudo RPATH "feature". Basically if the application is not
present in /usr/bin or a handful of other hardcoded directories sudo won't
find it.
7:38 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] the state of sudo
What are the trinity executables that really need to
run with sudo?
As an example, anything that needs root access in kcontrol. Some users
also like to use sudo to launch a root-permissioned kwrite or konqueror.
(I have no /opt/trinity/sbin and apps in /opt/trinity/bin may be run with
sudo `which ...`.)
Yes, but is this with the stock sudo? I would be very surprised if that
were true.
Tim
8:16 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] the state of sudo
Le 26/11/2011 20:38, Timothy Pearson a écrit :
For the moment, with Trinity's sudo, sudo `which ...` works with
executables in $HOME/bin that aren't in the secure path of sudo
(AFAIK 'which' is called before 'sudo').
I just replaced /usr/bin/sudo, and /usr/lib/sudo/sudo_noexec.so by
debian versions (and added /usr/lib/sudo/sudoers.so) and everything
works.
$ sudo `which kwrite`
Error: "/var/tmp/kdecache-eldi" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
$ sudo `which konqueror`
Error: "/var/tmp/kdecache-eldi" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
Error: "/tmp/kde-eldi" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
Error: "/tmp/ksocket-eldi" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
Error: "/var/tmp/kdecache-eldi" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
Error: "/var/tmp/kdecache-eldi" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
Error: "/var/tmp/kdecache-eldi" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
Error: "/var/tmp/kdecache-eldi" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
I added:
Defaults
secure_path=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/opt/trinity/bin:/usr/bin:/opt/trinity/sbin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin
in /etc/sudoers: 'sudo kwrite' and 'sudo konqueror' worked perfectly
(with the same error messages but that's the same messages with
Trinity's version).
--
Laurent Dard
(I have no
/opt/trinity/sbin and apps in /opt/trinity/bin may be run with
sudo `which ...`.)
Yes, but is this with the stock sudo? I would be very surprised if that
were true. 
11:27 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] the state of sudo
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 15:16, Laurent Dard <f.couperin(a)online.fr> wrote:
Le 26/11/2011 20:38, Timothy Pearson a écrit :
For the moment, with Trinity's sudo, sudo `which ...` works with
executables in $HOME/bin that aren't in the secure path of sudo
(AFAIK 'which' is called before 'sudo').
I just replaced /usr/bin/sudo, and /usr/lib/sudo/sudo_noexec.so by
debian versions (and added /usr/lib/sudo/sudoers.so) and everything
works.
$ sudo `which kwrite`
Error: "/var/tmp/kdecache-eldi" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
$ sudo `which konqueror`
Error: "/var/tmp/kdecache-eldi" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
Error: "/tmp/kde-eldi" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
Error: "/tmp/ksocket-eldi" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
Error: "/var/tmp/kdecache-eldi" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
Error: "/var/tmp/kdecache-eldi" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
Error: "/var/tmp/kdecache-eldi" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
Error: "/var/tmp/kdecache-eldi" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
Of course `which <exe>` would work, that searches the PATH
and /opt/trinity/bin and /opt/trinity/sbin is in the PATH.
That would work with normal sudo too.
--
later daze. :: Robert Xu :: rxu.lincomlinux.org :: protocol.by/rxu
(I have
no /opt/trinity/sbin and apps in /opt/trinity/bin may be run with
sudo `which ...`.)
Yes, but is this with the stock sudo? I would be very surprised if that
were true. 
9:21 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] the state of sudo
On Saturday 26 November 2011 19:38:55 Timothy Pearson wrote:
That is surely only true of Kubuntu. On Debian I use su for root access to
KControl.
Lisi
What are the
trinity executables that really need to run with sudo?
As an example, anything that needs root access in kcontrol. Some users
also like to use sudo to launch a root-permissioned kwrite or konqueror.
9:59 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] the state of sudo
On Saturday 26 November 2011 04:21:34 pm Lisi wrote:
On Saturday 26 November 2011 19:38:55 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
That is surely only true of Kubuntu. On Debian I use su for root access to
KControl.
That is true for anybody who prefers sudo. If I recall correctly, doing "kdesudo
/opt/trinity/bin/kcmshell 'kdm'" and typing your password does the same as
using kdesu instead and typing root's password.
Though for some reason, even on Debian, kdesu asks for my password instead of root's.
If I try typing root's password, it tells me I gave it the wrong password. It works
fine with my normal user password.
--
Kristopher Gamrat
Ark Linux webmaster
http://www.arklinux.org/
What are
the trinity executables that really need to run with sudo?
As an example, anything that needs root access in kcontrol. Some users
also like to use sudo to launch a root-permissioned kwrite or konqueror.
10:30 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] the state of sudo
Either way,
With Trinity expanding onto non debian systems I think its important to
help remove some of the Ubuntu "hacks"
Calvin
On Nov 26, 2011 4:59 PM, "Kristopher John Gamrat" <chaotickjg(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On Saturday 26 November 2011 04:21:34 pm Lisi wrote:
On Saturday 26 November 2011 19:38:55 Timothy
Pearson wrote:
> > What are the trinity executables that really need to run with sudo?
>
> As an example, anything that needs root access in kcontrol. Some users
> also like to use sudo to launch a root-permissioned kwrite or
konqueror.
That is surely only true of Kubuntu. On Debian I use su for root access
to
KControl.
That is true for anybody who prefers sudo. If I recall correctly, doing
"kdesudo /opt/trinity/bin/kcmshell 'kdm'" and typing your password does
the
same as using kdesu instead and typing root's password.
Though for some reason, even on Debian, kdesu asks for my password instead
of root's. If I try typing root's password, it tells me I gave it the wrong
password. It works fine with my normal user password.
--
Kristopher Gamrat
Ark Linux webmaster
http://www.arklinux.org/
11:36 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] the state of sudo
Le 26/11/2011 22:59, Kristopher John Gamrat a écrit :
Though for some reason, even on Debian, kdesu asks for
my password
instead of root's. If I try typing root's password, it tells me I
gave it the wrong password. It works fine with my normal user
password.
On Debian, as root, execute this to recover the default behaviour:
cat > /etc/trinity/kdesurc << EOF
[super-user-command]
super-user-command=su
EOF
--
Laurent Dard
9:53 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] the state of sudo
On Saturday 26 November 2011 02:38:55 pm Timothy Pearson wrote:
Normal sudo can be run with any program. I can do 'sudo ls' 'sudo find' or
'sudo cat'.
--
Kristopher Gamrat
Ark Linux webmaster
http://www.arklinux.org/
What are the
trinity executables that really need to run with sudo?
As an example, anything that needs root access in kcontrol. Some users
also like to use sudo to launch a root-permissioned kwrite or konqueror.
(I have no /opt/trinity/sbin and apps in /opt/trinity/bin may be run with
sudo `which ...`.)
Yes, but is this with the stock sudo? I would be very surprised if that
were true.
9:52 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] the state of sudo
On Saturday 26 November 2011 02:33:59 pm Laurent Dard wrote:
Le 26/11/2011 19:31, Timothy Pearson a écrit :
What are the trinity executables that really need to run with sudo?
(I have no /opt/trinity/sbin and apps in /opt/trinity/bin may be run with
sudo `which ...`.)
What come to mind right away are some of the kdeadmin stuff, such as KUser, which lets you
add/remove/modify users and groups.
I'm sure there are others, but I can't think of them right now.
--
Kristopher Gamrat
Ark Linux webmaster
http://www.arklinux.org/
I
don't think sudo should be a dependency.
It only is a dependency on distributions that use sudo in their core
packages such as Ubuntu.
Also, why does trinity have it's own sudo? I'd think it should be able to
find it in $PATH?
Look up the sudo RPATH "feature". Basically if the application is not
present in /usr/bin or a handful of other hardcoded directories sudo won't
find it.
11:17 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] the state of sudo
Le 26/11/2011 22:52, Kristopher John Gamrat a écrit :
On Saturday 26 November 2011 02:33:59 pm Laurent Dard
wrote:
> What are the trinity executables that really need to run with sudo?
...
What come to mind right away are some of the kdeadmin
stuff, such as KUser, which lets you add/remove/modify users and groups.
Thanks.
It runs with the solution I just applied:
Debian's sudo, with secure_path defined in /etc/sudoers.
--
Laurent Dard
7:18 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] the state of sudo
Le 26/11/2011 17:30, Kristopher John Gamrat a écrit :
On Saturday 26 November 2011 11:15:19 am Calvin
Morrison wrote:
I agree with you and I have no answers to your questions.
I saw it's needed because of a problem with the path but I don't fully
understand.
I tried Debian defaults in /etc/sudoers:
Defaults
secure_path="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin"
without noticing problems.
Maybe trinity could only change /etc/sudoers (with debconf), adding:
Defaults
secure_path=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/opt/trinity/bin:/usr/bin:/opt/trinity/sbin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin
if it's really important.
Or maybe it could install its own version of sudo in /opt/trinity/bin,
with a different configuration file (/etc/sudoers-trinity, for example),
without conflicting with the installed one.
Does somebody knows what can be done to test sudo installation?
--
Laurent Dard
Hello,
I think another thing on all of our minds should be towards dealing with
the problems related to sudo. As we know not all distros support it, and
also removing sudo in cases can remove the entire trinity install, wreak
havoc and other terrible things.
Do we have a plan for this? Tim what needs to be done?
Some people don't even use sudo, and not all distros use it, even if they have it
installed by default.
I don't think sudo should be a dependency.
Also, why does trinity have it's own sudo? I'd think it should be able to find it
in $PATH?
4538
days inactive
4538
days old
15 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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Calvin Morrison -
Kristopher John Gamrat -
Laurent Dard -
Lisi -
Robert Xu -
Timothy Pearson