Okay, so I appear to have internet again, more or less, but now there's something odd happening with tdenetworkmanager.
For the past day or so, since sometime Sunday evening, I have not been able to use internet at all. I keep checking the connection, try out the installation image on a flash drive, just to see if networks are showing up there, but nothing conclusive.
Then it occurred to me to start tdenetworkmanager as root, and presto! I can configure it to work, and everything is back to normal; except, I cannot close down the root version of tdenetworkmanager, then return to the non-root version. The non-root tdenetworkmanager, just myself as user, still will not connect. The networks show up, but once I try to connect, they disappear, and I cannot get on at all.
This does not seem right.
Awhile back I resolved some connectivity issues (been meaning to mention this, but it's an old thread now); I booted into my backup desktop, xfce, started xfce as root, set my local network so that I did not connect automatically, then got out of root, and everything since then ran fine.
I returned to my Trinity desktop, and did not think about xfce again, until I had to do some reinstallation. Until these past two weeks, and now again the past day or so, I have not had any network issues.
Everything has worked just fine, until we had flooding in our building, and internet was out for nearly two weeks past, up until sometime Friday night or Saturday. Then I had a day or so of my usual internet, then a couple days past where I have these problems just described above.
And now this: only able to use the tdenetworkmanager as root. Also, it seems I cannot install or use wicd, which is my usual backup.
Does any of this make any sense? Am I losing my mind, or is it the machines that are making me crazy?
Bill
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2024 Mon, 29 Jan 08:35:15 -0800 William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
Okay, so I appear to have internet again, more or less, but now there's something odd happening with tdenetworkmanager.
For the past day or so, since sometime Sunday evening, I have not been able to use internet at all. I keep checking the connection, try out the installation image on a flash drive, just to see if networks are showing up there, but nothing conclusive.
Then it occurred to me to start tdenetworkmanager as root, and presto! I can configure it to work, and everything is back to normal; except, I cannot close down the root version of tdenetworkmanager, then return to the non-root version. The non-root tdenetworkmanager, just myself as user, still will not connect. The networks show up, but once I try to connect, they disappear, and I cannot get on at all.
This does not seem right.
Awhile back I resolved some connectivity issues (been meaning to mention this, but it's an old thread now); I booted into my backup desktop, xfce, started xfce as root, set my local network so that I did not connect automatically, then got out of root, and everything since then ran fine.
I returned to my Trinity desktop, and did not think about xfce again, until I had to do some reinstallation. Until these past two weeks, and now again the past day or so, I have not had any network issues.
Everything has worked just fine, until we had flooding in our building, and internet was out for nearly two weeks past, up until sometime Friday night or Saturday. Then I had a day or so of my usual internet, then a couple days past where I have these problems just described above.
And now this: only able to use the tdenetworkmanager as root. Also, it seems I cannot install or use wicd, which is my usual backup.
Does any of this make any sense? Am I losing my mind, or is it the machines that are making me crazy?
Could you check if your user is in the "netdev" and "dialout" group? And the do a "chown $USER $HOME -R" as I suspect some files don't belog to you any more :)
And you could try "nmtui" and/or "nmcli" and check if it's not a tdenetworkmanager problem.
Nik
Bill
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Could you check if your user is in the "netdev" and "dialout" group? And the do a "chown $USER $HOME -R" as I suspect some files don't belog to you any more :)
And you could try "nmtui" and/or "nmcli" and check if it's not a tdenetworkmanager problem.
Nik
Hello again, Nik!
It's good to have friends online in situations like this.
Yes I am already a member of the group netdev; I was not a member of the dialout group, so added myself to that group, too, just in case it might help.
Those other commands are very nifty tools, especially nmtui. Myself, I want to go back to stone tools and live in a cave, and this makes me feel that I am already halfway there.
Unfortunately, these did nothing whatsoever to change my network issues. I tried quitting and restarting tdenetworkmanager, tried running as my normal user, then had to go back to running as root, which I don't like, but I still need to do a few things today.
Everything has been working just fine. I really don't want to reinstall my system just to correct this issue.
Besides, when I booted up the machine with my handy flash drive (with the Devuan installation image), just to check my network connection, it seemed that only about every other time I rebooted that it showed available networks.
Mind you, this is the Devuan installation image: sometimes it shows available networks, sometimes no networks at all. I live in an area that is surrounded by hundreds of local networks, and sometimes when I scan for networks, I find so many that they won't all fit on the screen.
This makes no sense, for the Devuan installation image not to find networks. Is it possible that some hardware issue is causing my internal wifi antenna not to pick up networks? I also tried an old CCrane wifi antenna that I have kept, which has served me well for maybe twenty years, and still works with other machines; but alas, doesn't even register with this machine.
Bill
William Morder via tde-users wrote:
This makes no sense, for the Devuan installation image not to find networks.
may be you need a firmware - read about firmware and debian - some of it that is not compatible with the license is not provided.
A second guess would be that NM uses DBus and it plays along systemd - so whatever a replacement there is on Debuan to setup networking might not be playing well along. tdenetworkmanager adds a bit of frustration on top of it and there you have easily your salad. I mean even with systemd it is not always the nicest.
But not only this. On a dual boot with Windows 11 on HP EliteBook, I have to disable the Wireless before shutting down or hibernating, otherwise there is no WLAN in TDE (with NM). After I found this out (some 2y later occasionally using this notebook) I had to excuse myself for pointing finger to all the above mentioned packages :D
just my ++5c on this
BR
On Monday 29 January 2024 16:09:48 deloptes via tde-users wrote:
William Morder via tde-users wrote:
This makes no sense, for the Devuan installation image not to find networks.
may be you need a firmware - read about firmware and debian - some of it that is not compatible with the license is not provided.
BR
Well, until now I have managed to run my machine without using any non-free software; every once in a great while, I need some firmware update, but even there I have managed to steer clear of non-free and proprietary crap. It may be that I will eventually have to surrender.
There is one other detail to add: which is, that I remember what you suggested in an earlier post about installing a Linux system to a flash drive. As it happens, I had a friend who kept pestering me about Linux, but my gut feeling is, this won't last, then she will have installed Linux, discovers she doesn't like it, doesn't have the patience to learn, and so regrets having wiped out a running Windoze system.
So I thought, why not give this a try? I have installed to a flash drive before (complete with root, swap and home partitions), and it was able to run my desktop for at least 6 months or so. Then I decided that it was too slow for everyday use (and it was an older desktop machine), so I installed to the internal hard drive like usual. (The flash drive, after a few more months, became corrupted and unusable, which is no doubt because they aren't made to take that kind of stress.) But it was an instructive experiment.
In this case, I thought I might get some practice at doing it again, as I must do some travelling in the future, and it would be nice to carry around a smaller version of my own machine in my pocket, so that in a pinch I can borrow somebody else's hardware, but still have my own machine to use, so to speak, and meanwhile keep my laptop safely tucked away in my bags, in a locker, wherever.
This time, after installing to the flash drive, I did experience some peculiar issues. My hunch was that it was due to the fact of two UEFI partitions when I booted up -- one on the flash drive, one on my machine. (When I did this before, there the UEFI partitions were just starting to appear in newer machines, so this was not an issue back then.) It took another few reboots before I had problems, but then this network problem developed. I did try out the flash drive on my machine, of course, just to be sure that it worked as intended, but it was another couple days before I started having this network problem (of having to start tdenetworkmanager as root).
I don't know whether my experimentation with installing to a flash drive has anything to do with it, but it's the only other thing that I can think of.
Also, I forgot to mention, there was a full moon the other night, but that has never before affected my network.
Bill
William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I did try out the flash drive on my machine, of course, just to be sure that it worked as intended, but it was another couple days before I started having this network problem (of having to start tdenetworkmanager as root).
so it is reproducible after couple of days - this is what I understand
at the end you have to look into the logs to see what exactly happens
I also had problems in few occasions with the notebook and tdenetworkmanager
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2024 Mon, 29 Jan 15:50:21 -0800 William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
Mind you, this is the Devuan installation image: sometimes it shows available networks, sometimes no networks at all. I live in an area that is surrounded by hundreds of local networks, and sometimes when I scan for networks, I find so many that they won't all fit on the screen.
This makes no sense, for the Devuan installation image not to find networks. Is it possible that some hardware issue is causing my internal wifi antenna not to pick up networks? I also tried an old CCrane wifi antenna that I have kept, which has served me well for maybe twenty years, and still works with other machines; but alas, doesn't even register with this machine.
what does 'dmesg|grep wlan' say, when it tries to connect? It looks like I have a simillar issue:
[ 9.891861] wlan0: authenticate with e8:48:b8:e1:89:da [ 9.902526] wlan0: send auth to e8:48:b8:e1:89:da (try 1/3) [ 9.918070] wlan0: authenticated [ 9.919082] wlan0: associate with e8:48:b8:e1:89:da (try 1/3) [ 9.935475] wlan0: RX AssocResp from e8:48:b8:e1:89:da (capab=0x11 status=0 aid=1) [ 9.937940] wlan0: associated [ 55.012840] wlan0: deauthenticating from e8:48:b8:e1:89:da by local choice (Reason: 3=DEAUTH_LEAVING) [ 56.868760] wlan0: authenticate with e8:48:b8:e1:89:da [ 56.880559] wlan0: send auth to e8:48:b8:e1:89:da (try 1/3) [ 56.883686] wlan0: authenticated [ 56.887070] wlan0: associate with e8:48:b8:e1:89:da (try 1/3) [ 56.889993] wlan0: RX AssocResp from e8:48:b8:e1:89:da (capab=0x11 status=0 aid=1) [ 56.893218] wlan0: associated
from sec. 9 to 55 he blue gear keeps turning. Usally it connects after 1-2 minutes, in this case I reconnected manually and it connected after 2 secs.
Nik
Bill
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On Tuesday 30 January 2024 08:14:10 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users wrote:
what does 'dmesg|grep wlan' say, when it tries to connect? It looks like I have a simillar issue:
[ 9.891861] wlan0: authenticate with e8:48:b8:e1:89:da [ 9.902526] wlan0: send auth to e8:48:b8:e1:89:da (try 1/3) [ 9.918070] wlan0: authenticated [ 9.919082] wlan0: associate with e8:48:b8:e1:89:da (try 1/3) [ 9.935475] wlan0: RX AssocResp from e8:48:b8:e1:89:da (capab=0x11 status=0 aid=1) [ 9.937940] wlan0: associated [ 55.012840] wlan0: deauthenticating from e8:48:b8:e1:89:da by local choice (Reason: 3=DEAUTH_LEAVING) [ 56.868760] wlan0: authenticate with e8:48:b8:e1:89:da [ 56.880559] wlan0: send auth to e8:48:b8:e1:89:da (try 1/3) [ 56.883686] wlan0: authenticated [ 56.887070] wlan0: associate with e8:48:b8:e1:89:da (try 1/3) [ 56.889993] wlan0: RX AssocResp from e8:48:b8:e1:89:da (capab=0x11 status=0 aid=1) [ 56.893218] wlan0: associated
from sec. 9 to 55 he blue gear keeps turning. Usally it connects after 1-2 minutes, in this case I reconnected manually and it connected after 2 secs.
Nik
Never got to try these out, as the problems got too annoying for me to ignore.
After wrestling with this issue for days, trying different strategies to trace the source(s) of these problems, I decided to do a fresh installation.
At the moment, I have no time whatsoever to waste, but I also need a working computer, under my own control, in order to keep my life together. So I spent the better part of two days reinstalling my system in the manner typical of most mortals; what is usually recommended, that is: that overly cautious, piecemeal way; one-thing-at-a-time, to make sure I didn't make any careless mistakes.
Then I copied over my personal stuff gradually. I created a new user folder, copied everything over there, then copied back to my actual user folder, once I had completed the installation. This has generally worked before to filter out similar problems, and it worked again. My network is back to normal; my system appears to be running in its customary way, obeying my wishes.
I believe that I might find what causes these issues somewhere in those dot files at the bottom of my home folder. Everything else can be copied from backups except those files. I will assume that it's not such innocuous files such as my user icon, and dot folders don't seem to affect the system at all; I only need to get into the individual dot folders when there's an issue with a specific program -- for example, audacity, which periodically needs to be sanitized, as whatever's inside may get corrupted, and things stop working right. But that is just for that particular program, and doesn't affect other parts of the system, such as networking.
Whatever affects my network (the issues described at length in previous posts) must be in these hidden files at the bottom of the home folder.
.bash_history .bash_logout .bashrc .DCOPserver_<my_top_secret_host_name>_:0 .DCOPserver_<my_top_secret_host_name>__0 .dmrc .ICEauthority .mcoprc .profile .sudo_as_admin_successful .tderc .Xauthority .xsession-errors
Among these suspects, I would suppose bash, the dcop server lines wiith my hostname, and after that I am just shooting in the dark.
Any suggestions?
Bill
On Sat February 3 2024 08:37:00 William Morder via tde-users wrote: <snip>
After wrestling with this issue for days, trying different strategies to trace the source(s) of these problems, I decided to do a fresh installation.
At the moment, I have no time whatsoever to waste, but I also need a working computer, under my own control, in order to keep my life together. So I spent the better part of two days reinstalling my system in the manner typical of most mortals; what is usually recommended, that is: that overly cautious, piecemeal way; one-thing-at-a-time, to make sure I didn't make any careless mistakes.
Then I copied over my personal stuff gradually. I created a new user folder, copied everything over there, then copied back to my actual user folder, once I had completed the installation. This has generally worked before to filter out similar problems, and it worked again. My network is back to normal; my system appears to be running in its customary way, obeying my wishes.
I believe that I might find what causes these issues somewhere in those dot files at the bottom of my home folder. Everything else can be copied from backups except those files. I will assume that it's not such innocuous files such as my user icon, and dot folders don't seem to affect the system at all; I only need to get into the individual dot folders when there's an issue with a specific program -- for example, audacity, which periodically needs to be sanitized, as whatever's inside may get corrupted, and things stop working right. But that is just for that particular program, and doesn't affect other parts of the system, such as networking.
Whatever affects my network (the issues described at length in previous posts) must be in these hidden files at the bottom of the home folder.
.bash_history .bash_logout .bashrc .DCOPserver_<my_top_secret_host_name>_:0 .DCOPserver_<my_top_secret_host_name>__0 .dmrc .ICEauthority .mcoprc .profile .sudo_as_admin_successful .tderc .Xauthority .xsession-errors
Among these suspects, I would suppose bash, the dcop server lines wiith my hostname, and after that I am just shooting in the dark.
Any suggestions?
How about the content of your .trinity directory tree Bill?
Running tdenetworkmanager as root may have changed ownership of some crucial file that your regular user account was unable to change back.
--Mike
On Saturday 03 February 2024 16:52:01 Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
Whatever affects my network (the issues described at length in previous posts) must be in these hidden files at the bottom of the home folder.
.bash_history .bash_logout .bashrc .DCOPserver_<my_top_secret_host_name>_:0 .DCOPserver_<my_top_secret_host_name>__0 .dmrc .ICEauthority .mcoprc .profile .sudo_as_admin_successful .tderc .Xauthority .xsession-errors
Among these suspects, I would suppose bash, the dcop server lines wiith my hostname, and after that I am just shooting in the dark.
Any suggestions?
How about the content of your .trinity directory tree Bill?
Running tdenetworkmanager as root may have changed ownership of some crucial file that your regular user account was unable to change back.
--Mike
Hi, Mike!
But these issues started before I did that. It was only because I could no longer use my network at all, for anything: then I tried running tdenetworkmanager as root, and suddenly I was able to use the internet normally again.
Before that, my reliable connectivity, so to speak, had been gradually getting worse, or was just spotty, but I was still blaming it on the flooding in our building, and internet going out.
Now it's more or less back, and (after a fresh reinstallation, and changing my hostname) I am running tdenetworkmanager as my ordinary user self, not with godlike superuser powers, and everything is fine. The thing is, I would like it to stay that way, and in future to avoid those problems cropping up again.
Either there is something that I am doing (that I ought not to do, or which is "irregular" in some oldthinker kind of way); or, if I am not messing up myself, then something out there must be doing it -- whether within the network, or somehow accessing our network, I can't tell.
I went into the config files for tdenetworkmanager, made sure that all was right there. (And I always keep a backup of my trusted working configuration, somewhere that it is safe and cannot be touched.)
Bill
On Sat February 3 2024 09:11:37 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Saturday 03 February 2024 16:52:01 Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
<snip>
Running tdenetworkmanager as root may have changed ownership of some crucial file that your regular user account was unable to change back.
--Mike
Hi, Mike!
But these issues started before I did that. It was only because I could no longer use my network at all, for anything: then I tried running tdenetworkmanager as root, and suddenly I was able to use the internet normally again.
Before that, my reliable connectivity, so to speak, had been gradually getting worse, or was just spotty, but I was still blaming it on the flooding in our building, and internet going out.
Now it's more or less back, and (after a fresh reinstallation, and changing my hostname) I am running tdenetworkmanager as my ordinary user self, not with godlike superuser powers, and everything is fine. The thing is, I would like it to stay that way, and in future to avoid those problems cropping up again.
Either there is something that I am doing (that I ought not to do, or which is "irregular" in some oldthinker kind of way); or, if I am not messing up myself, then something out there must be doing it -- whether within the network, or somehow accessing our network, I can't tell.
I went into the config files for tdenetworkmanager, made sure that all was right there. (And I always keep a backup of my trusted working configuration, somewhere that it is safe and cannot be touched.)
Hi Bill,
If it happens again see what you can get from command line tools and log files but try to avoid running tdenetworkmanager as root.
But the reality is we may never know what was causing the earlier network problem. Maybe your quantums got entangled, or unentangled.
--Mike
Anno domini 2024 Sat, 3 Feb 16:37:00 +0000 William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
[...] Among these suspects, I would suppose bash, the dcop server lines wiith my hostname, and after that I am just shooting in the dark.
Any suggestions?
When you walk that road: leave all the old stuff in a seperate directory and only move those files over where you are sure you know what they do or that you need them.
Nik
Bill
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