On Tuesday 04 August 2020 19:57:41 Michael wrote:

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 09:21:23 pm Michael wrote:

...

Somewhat on a whim, I’m trying to figure out what laptop packages I can remove from my desktop. Having already removed touchpad-indicator, I came across klaptopdaemon-trinity as a good candidate.

# aptitude search '~d laptop' i A klaptopdaemon-trinity - battery monitoring and management for laptops using TDE

So, did a dry run, and it wants to remove all of TDE from the computer. (output below)

So, uhm, what am I missing here? TDE isn’t really dependent on a laptop daemon, right? My desktop does not need that package, right? What’s the proper command to remove it?

Thanks, Best, Michael

Now I'm replying to myself... It seems any TDE app does this, just did a dry run on kbounce-trinity, it did the same thing.

I wonder, if you did a fresh install and named exactly the packages you wanted, would you still get these packages installed? I say this because I suspect they might have been installed by some metapackage -- TDE games, or what not.

Myself, I just learned to ignore those items that I don't use. It's there, but it doesn't get in my way. I do seem to remember a time, though, when I could get rid of laptop packages, games, and all the other stuff I don't use, but now they can't be uninstalled.

So I am just guessing that something has changed over the years, so that these packages are all tied to some metapackage.

Bill

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Anno domini 2020 Tue, 4 Aug 21:57:41 -0500 Michael scripsit:

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 09:21:23 pm Michael wrote:

...

Somewhat on a whim, I’m trying to figure out what laptop packages I can remove from my desktop. Having already removed touchpad-indicator, I came across klaptopdaemon-trinity as a good candidate.

# aptitude search '~d laptop' i A klaptopdaemon-trinity - battery monitoring and management for laptops using TDE

So, did a dry run, and it wants to remove all of TDE from the computer. (output below)

So, uhm, what am I missing here? TDE isn’t really dependent on a laptop daemon, right? My desktop does not need that package, right? What’s the proper command to remove it?

Thanks, Best, Michael

Now I'm replying to myself... It seems any TDE app does this, just did a dry run on kbounce-trinity, it did the same thing.

The problem are the metapackage dependecies: If you have installed TDE using the "root" meta package, removal of any package in the TDE package tree will trigger the removal of all patent packages which resolves in the removal of all TDE packages. You'll have to mark all meta packages as "manual" and also all packages that were pulled in from the parent meta package of the package you want to remove. It would help if all meta packages were marked as such, but ... well ... time is short.

Nik

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Anno domini 2020 Wed, 5 Aug 09:34:23 +0200 Stefan Krusche scripsit:

Dear Michael,

Am Mittwoch 05 August 2020 schrieb Michael:

...

So, uhm, what am I missing here? TDE isn’t really dependent on a laptop daemon, right? My desktop does not need that package, right?

you're using apt-get, so I'm assuming you are on a debian-based system.

This command tells you the dependencies which caused a package to be installed:

$ aptitude why klaptopdaemon-trinity i desktop-base-trinity Suggests tde-trinity p tde-trinity Depends tdeutils-trinity (>= 4:14.0.0~) p tdeutils-trinity Depends klaptopdaemon-trinity (>= 4:14.0.8-0debian8.0.0+0)

tdeutils-trinity is a meta-package which gets removed because it depends on klaptopdaemon-trinity.

This command tells you the dependencies of a package:

$ aptitude search "?reverse-depends(tdeutils-trinity)" i ark-trinity - graphical archiving tool for Trinity i kcalc-trinity - calculator for Trinity p kcharselect-trinity - character selector for Trinity i kdf-trinity - disk space utility for Trinity i kedit-trinity - basic text editor for Trinity p kfloppy-trinity - floppy formatter for TDE i kgpg-trinity - GnuPG frontend for Trinity i khexedit-trinity - Trinity hex editor p kjots-trinity - note taking utility for Trinity p klaptopdaemon-trinity - battery monitoring and management for laptops using p kmilo-trinity - laptop special keys support for Trinity i kregexpeditor-trinity - graphical regular expression editor plugin for Trini p ksim-trinity - system information monitor for Trinity p ktimer-trinity - timer utility for Trinity p superkaramba-trinity - a program based on karamba improving the eyecandy of p tdelibs-trinity-dbg - debugging symbols for tdelibs p tdelibs14-trinity-dev - development files for the TDE core libraries p tdelirc-trinity - infrared control for Trinity i tdessh-trinity - ssh frontend for Trinity i tdewalletmanager-trinity - wallet manager for Trinity

...

What’s the proper command to remove it?

I don't know how to do it with apt-get, maybe someone else does in case it is possible.

Generally, you need to remove the meta-package tdeutils-trinity which depends on klaptopdaemon-trinity and keep the other packages on which tdeutils-trinity depends to only remove klaptopdaemon-trinity.

I think there are different ways to achieve that. One I prefer to go in such cases utilises aptitude. With this tool you can interactively resolve the dependencies.

Or, you can mark all packages on which tdeutils-trinity depends and which you want to keep as manually installed and then remove tdeutils-trinity and klaptopdaemon-trinity.

For the curious: # apt-mark manual .... Maybe it would be a good idea for metapackages to ste the parent metapackagew as "optional"?

Nik

HTH

Kind regards, Stefan

...

michael@local [~/data/trash]# apt-get purge --dry-run klaptopdaemon-trinity NOTE: This is only a simulation! apt-get needs root privileges for real execution. Keep also in mind that locking is deactivated, so don't depend on the relevance to the real current situation! Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:

etc.

...

Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them.

...

The following packages will be REMOVED: klaptopdaemon-trinity* tde-trinity* tdeutils-trinity* 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 3 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Purg tde-trinity [4:14.0.8-0debian10.0.0+0] Purg tdeutils-trinity [4:14.0.8-0debian10.0.0+0] Purg klaptopdaemon-trinity [4:14.0.8-0debian10.0.0+0]

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Anno domini 2020 Wed, 5 Aug 10:40:47 -0500 Michael scripsit:

{snip all}

Hi Stefan, Nik, et al.,

Thank you for the replies. While it still bothers me why I can’t figure out how to get apt to do what I want, it was mostly a whim, with some slight security considerations, so I think I’m giving up. As pointed out, it’s just a bit of space on the drive.

I tried apt-mark manual, but removing klaptopdaemon-trinity still wants to remove tde-trinity and tdeutils-trinity (output at bottom).

...

Maybe it would be a good idea for packages to set the parent metapackage

as "optional?"

Possibly this is the issue? But I’m not familiar enough with the package management system to grok how to ‘fix’ it so that you can install tde-trinity and then be able to remove one of its components without apt trying to remove all of its components.

Possibly it’s not achievable?

Unless there is a way from a user perspective, closing the whole dependency thing with ‘not doable.’

Best All, Michael

root@local [~]# apt-mark manual tde-trinity tdeutils-trinity tde-trinity was already set to manually installed. tdeutils-trinity set to manually installed.

root@local [~]# apt-get purge klaptopdaemon-trinity {snip} The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: amor-trinity arts-trinity {snip} twin4-trinity xcalib Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them. The following packages will be REMOVED: klaptopdaemon-trinity* tde-trinity* tdeutils-trinity* 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 3 to remove and 3 not upgraded. After this operation, 840 kB disk space will be freed. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n Abort.

The metapackgs can be removed without any problem.

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Dne st 5. srpna 2020 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp napsal(a):

...

root@local [~]# apt-mark manual tde-trinity tdeutils-trinity tde-trinity was already set to manually installed. tdeutils-trinity set to manually installed.

root@local [~]# apt-get purge klaptopdaemon-trinity {snip} The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:   amor-trinity arts-trinity {snip} twin4-trinity xcalib Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them. The following packages will be REMOVED:   klaptopdaemon-trinity* tde-trinity* tdeutils-trinity* 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 3 to remove and 3 not upgraded. After this operation, 840 kB disk space will be freed. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n Abort.

The metapackgs can be removed without any problem.

Metapackages are good at installation, but poor servant during the removal of individual packages.

For metapackages to work well for installation, there is a need for a hard dependency - Depends. If a looser dependency - Recomends - were used, the result could be that virtually nothing would be installed when the default apt setting is "without recommends". And here is the beginning of the problem. If a user wants to remove a package that is referenced by a metapackage, this will cause the metapackage to break => leads to its uninstallation and thus to the uninstallation of all other packages referenced by the metapackage.

Therefore, before removing a metapackage, all referenced packages need to be switched to "manual" so that they are retained even if the metapackage is removed. This is more difficult to do manually with commands - it's much easier to use aptitude.

And that's exactly why we like aptitude. Aptitude is much more powerful and skillful than Synaptic. And just as useful as apt-get / apt-cache / apt-<something> or apt.

Cheers

Dne st 5. srpna 2020 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp napsal(a):

Anno domini 2020 Wed, 5 Aug 19:29:49 +0200

Slávek Banko scripsit:

...

Dne st 5. srpna 2020 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp napsal(a):

...

...

root@local [~]# apt-mark manual tde-trinity tdeutils-trinity tde-trinity was already set to manually installed. tdeutils-trinity set to manually installed.

root@local [~]# apt-get purge klaptopdaemon-trinity {snip} The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:   amor-trinity arts-trinity {snip} twin4-trinity xcalib Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them. The following packages will be REMOVED:   klaptopdaemon-trinity* tde-trinity* tdeutils-trinity* 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 3 to remove and 3 not upgraded. After this operation, 840 kB disk space will be freed. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n Abort.

The metapackgs can be removed without any problem.

Metapackages are good at installation, but poor servant during the removal of individual packages.

For metapackages to work well for installation, there is a need for a hard dependency - Depends. If a looser dependency - Recomends - were used, the result could be that virtually nothing would be installed when the default apt setting is "without recommends". And here is the beginning of the problem. If a user wants to remove a package that is referenced by a metapackage, this will cause the metapackage to break => leads to its uninstallation and thus to the uninstallation of all other packages referenced by the metapackage.

Therefore, before removing a metapackage, all referenced packages need to be switched to "manual" so that they are retained even if the metapackage is removed. This is more difficult to do manually with commands - it's much easier to use aptitude.

How do you do that with aptitude?

In aptitude you can "enter" the metapackage using the Enter key, move to depends and then press "m". This will switch all packages in the list to "manual".

At the same time, there is an 'overview step' in aptitude before performing both installation and uninstallation - after pressing 'g'. There it is possible to notice the situation and make changes in the selection of packages. Alternatively, go back - by pressing 'q' and continue selecting / deselecting packages.

nik

...

And that's exactly why we like aptitude. Aptitude is much more powerful and skillful than Synaptic. And just as useful as apt-get / apt-cache / apt-<something> or apt.

Cheers

Cheers