12 Jan
2025
12 Jan
'25
2:38 a.m.
some week ago interesting post was made to r/linux
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1htnhwq/software_left_in_nostalgial…
someone trying to fit kde1 codebase on top of forked qt2 codebase ;)
with png support backported from Trinity's qt3 fork ;)
So, well, thanks everyone again, long live lightweight desktop!
10:19 a.m.
On 1/12/25 1:35 AM, deloptes via tde-users wrote:
Andrew Randrianasulu via tde-users wrote:
It's also a reflection on how good the original developers were is desktop
design to be able to squeeze good performance out of tightly written code
running on 386 class processors and less than 4MB of RAM. Before Moore's Law
gave of GHz processors, GBs of RAM and TBs of storage. KDE3/TDE and
Gnome2/Gtk+2 all benefited greatly from that pedigree. The 2007 KDE Conference
welcoming kde4 and Gnome3/Gtk+3 have shown us all the downsides of the new
crop of desktop developers (kids with crayons...) that thought porting to a
new toolkit was the way to the next Great, Ghee-Whiz Linux desktop.
That misguided design path destroyed any chance of seeing Linux as a Desktop
in business and set that goal back by nearly two-decades. Eighteen years after
the 2007 Conference we are just now beginning to see stability in the Qt6
based Plasma/KDE Frameworks and Gnome4/Gtk4. While better, and closer, neither
ever obtained that Great new, Ghee-Whiz Linux desktop. Instead they have
showed us how you cripple a desktop with mismatched dialogs for more than a
decade as some functionality was porter while other apps and utilities
languished for more than a decade before ever receiving attention.
And all the time TDE/KDE3 remained a remarkable set of desktops, written from
the ground up with the Qt3 toolkit that provided seamless integration of a
full suite of all the apps that most would ever need.
And today on GHz processors, SSD storage and GBs of RAM, TDE/KDE3 perform like
never before with a tiny footprint on the hardware leaving the rest for your use.
The "lessons learned" (or should have been learned) where there for all to see
in KDE4 when openSUSE provided 4.0.4a as the default desktop in the openSUSE
11.0 release of June, 2008. Sadly, from my interaction with the Gtk4 devs and
the Plasma devs, I'm not sure those that are there really understand what a
5hit-5how of problems and disappointment the past 18 years of releases from
the two major Linux desktop providers have really been.
And for sure, there are still a few of the old-guard developers there that do
the best they can to steer development in the right direction. But, there is
no question they are sadly outnumbered by the kids-with-crayon devs...
I'm not sure I recall kde1 that well. I may well have run it on Mandrake
before the turn of the century, but I do remember kde2 -- and it was a solid
stepping stone to KDE3, which with TDE will forever remain the best two
desktops I've run in 25+ years of doing this.
</nostalgia-off>
I'll check out the link and see how far the kde1 project is along. Probably
all fits in a 100KB tarball and can be built start to finish in less than 45
minutes :)
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
someone trying to fit kde1 codebase on top of
forked qt2 codebase ;)
It seems like in the museum we have a new field called software
restaurators :).
2:14 p.m.
вс, 12 янв. 2025 г., 13:20 David C. Rankin via tde-users <
users(a)trinitydesktop.org>gt;:
On 1/12/25 1:35 AM, deloptes via tde-users wrote:
src links
https://centre.libranext.com/libranext/osiris
https://centre.libranext.com/libranext/mide
found under yt video (14 min, not most interesting in itself)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IwuFhaWwmAw
qt1/kde1 for Slackware at
https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/%3D%3Dupdate%3D%3D-kd…
Andrew Randrianasulu via tde-users wrote:
It's also a reflection on how good the original developers were is desktop
design to be able to squeeze good performance out of tightly written code
running on 386 class processors and less than 4MB of RAM. Before Moore's
Law
gave of GHz processors, GBs of RAM and TBs of storage. KDE3/TDE and
Gnome2/Gtk+2 all benefited greatly from that pedigree. The 2007 KDE
Conference
welcoming kde4 and Gnome3/Gtk+3 have shown us all the downsides of the new
crop of desktop developers (kids with crayons...) that thought porting to
a
new toolkit was the way to the next Great, Ghee-Whiz Linux desktop.
That misguided design path destroyed any chance of seeing Linux as a
Desktop
in business and set that goal back by nearly two-decades. Eighteen years
after
the 2007 Conference we are just now beginning to see stability in the Qt6
based Plasma/KDE Frameworks and Gnome4/Gtk4. While better, and closer,
neither
ever obtained that Great new, Ghee-Whiz Linux desktop. Instead they have
showed us how you cripple a desktop with mismatched dialogs for more than
a
decade as some functionality was porter while other apps and utilities
languished for more than a decade before ever receiving attention.
And all the time TDE/KDE3 remained a remarkable set of desktops, written
from
the ground up with the Qt3 toolkit that provided seamless integration of a
full suite of all the apps that most would ever need.
And today on GHz processors, SSD storage and GBs of RAM, TDE/KDE3 perform
like
never before with a tiny footprint on the hardware leaving the rest for
your use.
The "lessons learned" (or should have been learned) where there for all to
see
in KDE4 when openSUSE provided 4.0.4a as the default desktop in the
openSUSE
11.0 release of June, 2008. Sadly, from my interaction with the Gtk4 devs
and
the Plasma devs, I'm not sure those that are there really understand what
a
5hit-5how of problems and disappointment the past 18 years of releases
from
the two major Linux desktop providers have really been.
And for sure, there are still a few of the old-guard developers there that
do
the best they can to steer development in the right direction. But, there
is
no question they are sadly outnumbered by the kids-with-crayon devs...
I'm not sure I recall kde1 that well. I may well have run it on Mandrake
before the turn of the century, but I do remember kde2 -- and it was a
solid
stepping stone to KDE3, which with TDE will forever remain the best two
desktops I've run in 25+ years of doing this.
</nostalgia-off>
I'll check out the link and see how far the kde1 project is along.
Probably
all fits in a 100KB tarball and can be built start to finish in less than
45
minutes :)
someone trying to fit kde1 codebase on top of
forked qt2 codebase ;)
It seems like in the museum we have a new field called software
restaurators :).
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
____________________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
Web mail archive available at
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
9:23 p.m.
David,
An excellent piece you wrote on the beauty that is KDE3/TDE. It really
captures the love of this desktop, and the true craftsmanship that went
into making so much work with so little hardware resources. KDE3 really
was the pinnacle of the KDE line.
I keep longing for the days of the sheer design beauty of those
desktops, and it's such a privilege to still have it available for
modern Linux installations, through TDE. When KDE and GNOME went with
their new looks, and especially through the years as the smartphone GUI
paradigm took over, and somehow, developers thought that was a good
paradigm to follow, I moved many years back to XFCE. That was a great
throwback desktop for many years, but sadly, it has now also seemed to
adopt much of the smartphone paradigm. It makes me all the more happy to
still have TDE to fall back upon. The graphics, and the fun sound
effects, are just unmatched today. And having a screaming-fast,
responsive system that leaves most of the resources for my actual
programming enjoyment, is just a joy to use.
May this desktop environment always be available for our enjoyment!
--
Jim Petersen
On 1/12/25 5:19 AM, David C. Rankin via tde-users wrote:
On 1/12/25 1:35 AM, deloptes via tde-users wrote:
Andrew Randrianasulu via tde-users wrote:
It's also a reflection on how good the original developers were is
desktop design to be able to squeeze good performance out of tightly
written code running on 386 class processors and less than 4MB of RAM.
Before Moore's Law gave of GHz processors, GBs of RAM and TBs of
storage. KDE3/TDE and Gnome2/Gtk+2 all benefited greatly from that
pedigree. The 2007 KDE Conference welcoming kde4 and Gnome3/Gtk+3 have
shown us all the downsides of the new crop of desktop developers (kids
with crayons...) that thought porting to a new toolkit was the way to
the next Great, Ghee-Whiz Linux desktop.
That misguided design path destroyed any chance of seeing Linux as a
Desktop in business and set that goal back by nearly two-decades.
Eighteen years after the 2007 Conference we are just now beginning to
see stability in the Qt6 based Plasma/KDE Frameworks and Gnome4/Gtk4.
While better, and closer, neither ever obtained that Great new,
Ghee-Whiz Linux desktop. Instead they have showed us how you cripple a
desktop with mismatched dialogs for more than a decade as some
functionality was porter while other apps and utilities languished for
more than a decade before ever receiving attention.
And all the time TDE/KDE3 remained a remarkable set of desktops,
written from the ground up with the Qt3 toolkit that provided seamless
integration of a full suite of all the apps that most would ever need.
And today on GHz processors, SSD storage and GBs of RAM, TDE/KDE3
perform like never before with a tiny footprint on the hardware
leaving the rest for your use.
The "lessons learned" (or should have been learned) where there for
all to see in KDE4 when openSUSE provided 4.0.4a as the default
desktop in the openSUSE 11.0 release of June, 2008. Sadly, from my
interaction with the Gtk4 devs and the Plasma devs, I'm not sure those
that are there really understand what a 5hit-5how of problems and
disappointment the past 18 years of releases from the two major Linux
desktop providers have really been.
And for sure, there are still a few of the old-guard developers there
that do the best they can to steer development in the right direction.
But, there is no question they are sadly outnumbered by the
kids-with-crayon devs...
I'm not sure I recall kde1 that well. I may well have run it on
Mandrake before the turn of the century, but I do remember kde2 -- and
it was a solid stepping stone to KDE3, which with TDE will forever
remain the best two desktops I've run in 25+ years of doing this.
</nostalgia-off>
I'll check out the link and see how far the kde1 project is along.
Probably all fits in a 100KB tarball and can be built start to finish
in less than 45 minutes :)
____________________________________________________
tde-users mailing list -- users(a)trinitydesktop.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
Web mail archive available at
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt… someone trying to fit kde1 codebase on top of
forked qt2 codebase ;)
It seems like in the museum we have a new field called software
restaurators :).
13 Jan
13 Jan
3:29 a.m.
On 1/12/25 3:23 PM, Jim Petersen via tde-users wrote:
An excellent piece you wrote on the beauty that is
KDE3/TDE. It really
captures the love of this desktop, and the true craftsmanship that went into
making so much work with so little hardware resources. KDE3 really was the
pinnacle of the KDE line.
I keep longing for the days of the sheer design beauty of those desktops, and
it's such a privilege to still have it available for modern Linux
installations, through TDE. When KDE and GNOME went with their new looks, and
especially through the years as the smartphone GUI paradigm took over, and
somehow, developers thought that was a good paradigm to follow, I moved many
years back to XFCE. That was a great throwback desktop for many years, but
sadly, it has now also seemed to adopt much of the smartphone paradigm. It
makes me all the more happy to still have TDE to fall back upon. The graphics,
and the fun sound effects, are just unmatched today. And having a screaming-
fast, responsive system that leaves most of the resources for my actual
programming enjoyment, is just a joy to use.
May this desktop environment always be available for our enjoyment!
The other thing I miss the most is the excitement of waiting on the next
release and all the great new capabilities that would come with it. Starting
in 2008, that excitement was replaced with an equal amount of cringe before
each new release worrying about which icon or app would lead to the next
black-screen, or why x, y and z don't work anymore followed by a complete
delete of the ~/.kde4 directory.
That continued right up until a year or so ago where deleting ~/.kde4
turned into the painful task of picking through ~/.config due to the
monumental bone-headed move by plasma of dumping all individual config files
into that directory instead of standard ~/.config/<somedir>. Really??
~/.config/plasma would have been fine.
Some things just leave you shaking your head in disbelief....
Oh well, here's to another decade using my favorite desktop. After another
decade, I'll be so tired of looking a computer screens -- it won't matter
anymore. It will be long past time for me to pass fighting the good fight to
the next energetic generation of enthusiasts and I can just turn myself out to
pasture :)
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
7
days inactive
8
days old
5 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Andrew Randrianasulu -
David C. Rankin -
deloptes -
Jim Petersen