17 Mar
2011
17 Mar
'11
2:05 p.m.
(Repost: originally posted as a reply creating broken thread to "Re:
[trinity-devel] [Win+] shortcut default proposal - Efficient Desktop
Manipulation". Posted again to insure proper threading)
---------Original---------
This got missed at the meeting, so it's getting announced here: an initial
mascot and logo proposal.
The mascot doesn't have a name right now, just a cryptic designation of L315 so
it can be referred to as something until it has earned a name.
It represents the user's individual TDE installation, typically customized to
that user's needs, and as such, can be found in multiple strange configurations
and doing various things.
The Etherpad page is here:
http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/8
If you just want to look at a quick single image, here's L315 playing a game
with an Atari 2600 joystick: http://imagebin.org/143362 -- this is my second
favorite image so far.
I may add the plain image of L315 standing at attention at some point, but I'm
wondering if a better default pose is possible.
This includes a few situations and configurations of L315, and at the bottom
shows three applications of a simple and efficient logo derived from L315.
Logos need to be as simple as possible, and this one qualifies as simple, and is
directly tied to L315. My main worry is that there might be someone else with a
nearly identical logo that I don't know about.
What I need from you: nits with the implementation of the concept, with L315's
configuration, with the logo in the three icon ideas, and possibly with the
entire base idea I'm working with. Suggestions for improving the artwork only
apply if you have immediately fallen in love with L315. 8)
Important thing to remember: Failed branding mascots are by definition
forgettable. We want to to be memorable.
James Gholston
---------End Original---------
I also tossed out the idea of a Phoenix as a logo/mascot "A phoenix dies a fiery
death but then rises again from the ashes." A good KDE3-Trinity analogy. (plus a
pretty cool looking logo)
A few ideas (for discussion only) I has many forms. The more abstract -- the better:
http://www.tchan.de/bilder/phoenixgross.gif
http://davidalves.net/images/robocode/phoenix3.jpg
http://www.sightquest.com/images/cat/phoenixbird.jpg
http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~torrey/phoenix.gif
http://affiliates.art.com/get.art?T=15043079&A=028615&L=8&P=126…
http://www.crimsonmonkey.com/phoenix.jpg
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0Hr9P3nN8WTDzVAPx8O9a6yO--aCBsxhJ…
http://hornconcerto.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/phoenix_force.jpg
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
17 Mar
17 Mar
5:08 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Mascot and logo, Proposal 1
David C. Rankin wrote:
I also tossed out the idea of a Phoenix as a
logo/mascot "A phoenix dies
a fiery death but then rises again from the
ashes." A good KDE3-Trinity
analogy. (plus a pretty cool looking logo)<
Questions: Does the Phoenix represent what we will be in 5+ years? Do we
want to be known for rising up from ashes; do we want to be known for what
we aspire to? Is the Phoenix overused? Is there something similar to a
phoenix that might accurately represent what we aspire to?
Questions for the Potato Head concept: does the abstract concept of
something fun (possibly even silly) and highly configurable fail to
represent what we will be in 5+ years? Does it fail to clearly describe
what we might aspire to? Is there something that might be similar to this
with more possibilities that I've not thought of?
Questions for this guy: http://imagebin.org/143360
Does it look too alien? Is it uninteresting when it stands at attention
like this? Does ambiguity about whether it's a robot or something else
make it less memorable? Is there a better way to implement the Mr Potato
Head concept?
I'm pushing for the mascot before a logo because I believe it to be the
less challenging problem to. I definitely am not seeking any sort of
commitment at this stage, lest we get locked into a suboptimal choice.
I presented L315 as something to throw tomatoes at. 8) Tell me what's
wrong, boring, irritating, or whatever with it. I need to know so I can
present a better idea. It might even inspire someone else to iteratively
piece together a better solution. Admittedly as this is a marketing
problem rather than an engineering one, what's good and bad can run the
risk of being too subjective...
http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2001-01-17/
Discussion from IRC indicates the possibility of exploring the idea of a
robot that already has all the features the user might be wanting. It may
take a few days for me to come up with something for that. Obviously an
open brainstorm for possible directions might also help with results.
Our mascot might not convey everything I'm hoping for in the end, but it
would be good for it to have a hopefully inspiring meaning behind it.
If we come up with something that would look good playing tennis with Tux,
that's obviously a bonus... 8)
James Gholston (Strangelv)
7:23 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Mascot and logo, Proposal 1
I think for the immediate future (2+ years or so?) that Trinity should not get fancy with
logos or cuteness.
Tim has already modified the traditional KDE3 logos and substituted the K with a T. That
provides acknowledgment of roots distinguishes Trinity from KDE3. Simple and
straightforward.
In two to three years, if Trinity is alive and well, then perhaps a new logo should be
considered.
Darrell
--- On Thu, 3/17/11, jamesg(a)dimensionality.com <jamesg(a)dimensionality.com> wrote:
From: jamesg(a)dimensionality.com
<jamesg(a)dimensionality.com>
Subject: Re: [trinity-devel] Mascot and logo, Proposal 1
To: trinity-devel(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net
Date: Thursday, March 17, 2011, 12:08 PM
David C. Rankin wrote:
I also tossed out the idea of a Phoenix as a
logo/mascot "A phoenix dies
a fiery death but then rises again from the ashes." A good
KDE3-Trinity
analogy. (plus a pretty cool looking logo)<
Questions: Does the Phoenix represent what we will be in 5+
years? Do we
want to be known for rising up from ashes; do we want to be
known for what
we aspire to? Is the Phoenix overused? Is there
something similar to a
phoenix that might accurately represent what we aspire to?
Questions for the Potato Head concept: does the abstract
concept of
something fun (possibly even silly) and highly configurable
fail to
represent what we will be in 5+ years? Does it fail
to clearly describe
what we might aspire to? Is there something that
might be similar to this
with more possibilities that I've not thought of?
Questions for this guy: http://imagebin.org/143360
Does it look too alien? Is it uninteresting when it stands
at attention
like this? Does ambiguity about whether it's a robot or
something else
make it less memorable? Is there a better way to
implement the Mr Potato
Head concept?
I'm pushing for the mascot before a logo because I believe
it to be the
less challenging problem to. I definitely am not
seeking any sort of
commitment at this stage, lest we get locked into a
suboptimal choice.
I presented L315 as something to throw tomatoes at.
8) Tell me what's
wrong, boring, irritating, or whatever with it. I
need to know so I can
present a better idea. It might even inspire someone
else to iteratively
piece together a better solution. Admittedly as this
is a marketing
problem rather than an engineering one, what's good and bad
can run the
risk of being too subjective...
http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2001-01-17/
Discussion from IRC indicates the possibility of exploring
the idea of a
robot that already has all the features the user might be
wanting. It may
take a few days for me to come up with something for
that. Obviously an
open brainstorm for possible directions might also help
with results.
Our mascot might not convey everything I'm hoping for in
the end, but it
would be good for it to have a hopefully inspiring meaning
behind it.
If we come up with something that would look good playing
tennis with Tux,
that's obviously a bonus... 8)
James Gholston (Strangelv)
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18 Mar
18 Mar
1:51 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Mascot and logo, Proposal 1
On 17 March 2011 15:23, Darrell Anderson <humanreadable(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
I think for the immediate future (2+ years or so?)
that Trinity should not get fancy with logos or cuteness.
Tim has already modified the traditional KDE3 logos and substituted the K with a T. That
provides acknowledgment of roots distinguishes Trinity from KDE3. Simple and
straightforward.
In two to three years, if Trinity is alive and well, then perhaps a new logo should be
considered.
Darrell
I think that brainstorming now cannot hurt. I also think that we do
need to look into working on themes, logos, websites all that jazz.
instead of being stuck with some crappy old logo, maybe it would be
good to have a new one. People see fresh logo, (even if it the same
concept of the T) and a new theme, as well as anything else on .13 or
after, they will also assume we are making improvements elsewere.
take windows for example, its been getting progressively worse since
XP, yet each time no one notices because they keep making it move
attractive.
Just my thoughts
Calvin Morrison
1:59 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Mascot and logo, Proposal 1
On 3/17/11, calvin morrison <mutantturkey(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 17 March 2011 15:23, Darrell Anderson
<humanreadable(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
I completely agree, it couldn't hurt.
Kate
I think for the immediate future (2+ years or
so?) that Trinity should not
get fancy with logos or cuteness.
Tim has already modified the traditional KDE3 logos and substituted the K
with a T. That provides acknowledgment of roots distinguishes Trinity from
KDE3. Simple and straightforward.
In two to three years, if Trinity is alive and well, then perhaps a new
logo should be considered.
Darrell
I think that brainstorming now cannot hurt. I also think that we do
need to look into working on themes, logos, websites all that jazz.
instead of being stuck with some crappy old logo, maybe it would be
good to have a new one. People see fresh logo, (even if it the same
concept of the T) and a new theme, as well as anything else on .13 or
after, they will also assume we are making improvements elsewere.
take windows for example, its been getting progressively worse since
XP, yet each time no one notices because they keep making it move
attractive.
Just my thoughts
Calvin Morrison
9:27 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Mascot and logo, Proposal 1
On 03/17/2011 09:59 PM, Katheryne Draven wrote:
On 3/17/11, calvin
morrison<mutantturkey(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I don'tknow it _always_ hurts me to think ;)
On 17 March 2011 15:23, Darrell
Anderson<humanreadable(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
I completely agree, it couldn't hurt.
Kate I think for the immediate future (2+ years or
so?) that Trinity should not
get fancy with logos or cuteness.
Tim has already modified the traditional KDE3 logos and substituted the K
with a T. That provides acknowledgment of roots distinguishes Trinity from
KDE3. Simple and straightforward.
In two to three years, if Trinity is alive and well, then perhaps a new
logo should be considered.
Darrell
I think that brainstorming now cannot hurt. I also think that we do
need to look into working on themes, logos, websites all that jazz.
instead of being stuck with some crappy old logo, maybe it would be
good to have a new one. People see fresh logo, (even if it the same
concept of the T) and a new theme, as well as anything else on .13 or
after, they will also assume we are making improvements elsewere.
take windows for example, its been getting progressively worse since
XP, yet each time no one notices because they keep making it move
attractive.
Just my thoughts
Calvin Morrison
10:36 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Mascot and logo, Proposal 1
Our existing placeholder logo is one we can only use for as long as KDE
will let us. There is no way it would hold up in court -- it's too
blatantly derived from theirs.
What I'm wanting to do is work out replacement branding in the time we
have, and do it well, so that we only need to do a major change of
branding once. Whether it's a robot, a bird, a jumping spider, can
opener, or whatever else we might decide on.
I may be erring on the side of overthinking it, but that seems a safer
direction than not thinking it through.
Anyone else have comments on L315 other than the ones I've gotten from
chat or private email?
Strangelv
2:58 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Mascot and logo, Proposal 1
Hold up in court? I can't imagine anybody from the KDE non-profit organization taking
that issue to court. Generally, courts are supposed to be remedies of last resort, which
means everybody in this group ignoring cease-and-desist letters, etc. Yup, that would go
over good in the daily free/libre software news. :)
Does the KDE3 license agreement say anything explicit about logos and trademarks? Are
those logos actually registered trademarks? Copyrighted?
How does using a logo that looks similar to old KDE3 logos infringe or impair usage of
KDE4 logos?
I don't think those questions matter because the KDE people abandoned the KDE3
software. Abandoned rights means no rights. In common law, abandoned property becomes
owned by the first party claiming ownership.
We have an attorney in our group who probably can answer such questions.
Regarding that drawing you refer, I would vote no.
I'm content with the logo art work already done by Tim.
If you are handy with art work (I am not! :)), how about working on some login splash
screens for Trinity? Or some wallpaper?
Darrell
--- On Fri, 3/18/11, jamesg(a)dimensionality.com <jamesg(a)dimensionality.com> wrote:
From: jamesg(a)dimensionality.com
<jamesg(a)dimensionality.com>
Subject: Re: [trinity-devel] Mascot and logo, Proposal 1
To: trinity-devel(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net
Date: Friday, March 18, 2011, 5:36 AM
Our existing placeholder logo is one we can only use for as
long as KDE
will let us. There is no way it would hold up in
court -- it's too
blatantly derived from theirs.
What I'm wanting to do is work out replacement branding in
the time we
have, and do it well, so that we only need to do a major
change of
branding once. Whether it's a robot, a bird, a
jumping spider, can
opener, or whatever else we might decide on.
I may be erring on the side of overthinking it, but that
seems a safer
direction than not thinking it through.
Anyone else have comments on L315 other than the ones I've
gotten from
chat or private email?
Strangelv
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6:26 p.m.
New subject: Trademarks and Needed Artwork
Darrell Anderson wrote:
Regarding that drawing you refer, I would vote no.<
It's actually not a yes or no question, but then you're objecting to the
entire idea in the first place...
Hold up in court? I can't imagine anybody from the
KDE non-profit
organization taking that issue to court.<
If it came to fistcuffs, trademark law would force their hand, lest anyone
be able to use it for anything (and Firefox has already created the
precedent, thus the existence of IceCat, IceWeasel, et c.) -- but there
are other reasons we probably should have more distinct branding. As more
people run into KDE 4+, do we really want branding confusable for theirs?
So they see our logo and assume we're just like KDE 4 or 5 and use Gnome
instead? (That would make Miguel de Icaza's day -- he vehemently wants
everything KDE related (this especially includes us) to cease to exist
last I heard -- my interest in trying out Mono evaporated when I read that
article...)
If nothing else, would it not be prudent to have something to use should
things change and any reasons for not changing it evaporate?
If you are handy with art work (I am not! :)), how
about working on some
login splash screens for Trinity? Or some wallpaper?<
The hard part I've been having is FINDING the locations of the artwork I
consider most urgent to update (the KDE dragon artwork when one looks at
Help->About Trinity in Konqueror, for a glaring example). Failing
miserably at this, I've since decided to go with the other angle and
simply find what I can that needs to be updated. Most of what I have so
far are screenshots that need replacing.
If you can find the locations of things needing to be replaced (K-gear
logos, cute dragon mascots, et c.) PLEASE add them to:
http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/14
Many thanks in advance! 8)
Strangelv
7:40 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Trademarks and Needed Artwork
Firefox did not establish any precedent. The Mozilla people barked and the Debian people
jumped. Nothing legal was decided. Possibly the Mozilla people would have won had the
Debian people resisted, but who knows?
I don't know about what Miguel de Icaza might have said. A first year law student
would recognize such remarks as hearsay. :)
Bear in mind that right now most everybody is focused on creating a product: form before
function. Cmake ports are more important to me right now than logos. :)
With that said, somebody probably needs to think about the issue. You might be correct
that new logos are needed or are even wise. I don't have a dog in the fight. :)
Regarding art work, there is an entire package devoted to that: kdeartwork. You can
download the 3.5.12 binary package, unzip/unpack, and then study everything. In that
package you'll find screen savers, styles, themes, splash screens, emoticons, icons,
sounds, and wallpaper.
Darrell
--- On Fri, 3/18/11, jamesg(a)dimensionality.com <jamesg(a)dimensionality.com> wrote:
From: jamesg(a)dimensionality.com
<jamesg(a)dimensionality.com>
Subject: [trinity-devel] Trademarks and Needed Artwork
To: trinity-devel(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net
Date: Friday, March 18, 2011, 1:26 PM
Darrell Anderson wrote:
Regarding that drawing you refer, I would vote
no.<
It's actually not a yes or no question, but then you're
objecting to the
entire idea in the first place...
Hold up in court? I can't imagine anybody from
the KDE
non-profit
organization taking that issue to court.<
If it came to fistcuffs, trademark law would force their
hand, lest anyone
be able to use it for anything (and Firefox has already
created the
precedent, thus the existence of IceCat, IceWeasel, et c.)
-- but there
are other reasons we probably should have more distinct
branding. As more
people run into KDE 4+, do we really want branding
confusable for theirs?
So they see our logo and assume we're just like KDE 4 or 5
and use Gnome
instead? (That would make Miguel de Icaza's day -- he
vehemently wants
everything KDE related (this especially includes us) to
cease to exist
last I heard -- my interest in trying out Mono evaporated
when I read that
article...)
If nothing else, would it not be prudent to have something
to use should
things change and any reasons for not changing it
evaporate?
If you are handy with art work (I am not! :)), how
about working on some
login splash screens for Trinity? Or some wallpaper?<
The hard part I've been having is FINDING the locations of
the artwork I
consider most urgent to update (the KDE dragon artwork when
one looks at
Help->About Trinity in Konqueror, for a glaring
example). Failing
miserably at this, I've since decided to go with the other
angle and
simply find what I can that needs to be updated. Most
of what I have so
far are screenshots that need replacing.
If you can find the locations of things needing to be
replaced (K-gear
logos, cute dragon mascots, et c.) PLEASE add them to:
http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/14
Many thanks in advance! 8)
Strangelv
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7:42 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Trademarks and Needed Artwork
Form before function? Hmm. I better take a nap! :D
Darrell
--- On Fri, 3/18/11, Darrell Anderson <humanreadable(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Darrell Anderson
<humanreadable(a)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [trinity-devel] Trademarks and Needed Artwork
To: trinity-devel(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net
Date: Friday, March 18, 2011, 2:40 PM
Firefox did not establish any
precedent. The Mozilla people barked and the Debian people
jumped. Nothing legal was decided. Possibly the Mozilla
people would have won had the Debian people resisted, but
who knows?
I don't know about what Miguel de Icaza might have said. A
first year law student would recognize such remarks as
hearsay. :)
Bear in mind that right now most everybody is focused on
creating a product: form before function. Cmake ports are
more important to me right now than logos. :)
With that said, somebody probably needs to think about the
issue. You might be correct that new logos are needed or are
even wise. I don't have a dog in the fight. :)
Regarding art work, there is an entire package devoted to
that: kdeartwork. You can download the 3.5.12 binary
package, unzip/unpack, and then study everything. In that
package you'll find screen savers, styles, themes, splash
screens, emoticons, icons, sounds, and wallpaper.
Darrell
--- On Fri, 3/18/11, jamesg(a)dimensionality.com
<jamesg(a)dimensionality.com>
wrote:
From: jamesg(a)dimensionality.com
<jamesg(a)dimensionality.com>
Subject: [trinity-devel] Trademarks and Needed
Artwork
To: trinity-devel(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net
Date: Friday, March 18, 2011, 1:26 PM
Darrell Anderson wrote:
>Regarding that drawing you refer, I would vote
no.<
It's actually not a yes or no question, but then
you're
objecting to the
entire idea in the first place...
>Hold up in court? I can't imagine anybody from the
KDE
non-profit
organization taking that issue to court.<
If it came to fistcuffs, trademark law would force
their
hand, lest anyone
be able to use it for anything (and Firefox has
already
created the
precedent, thus the existence of IceCat, IceWeasel, et
c.)
-- but there
are other reasons we probably should have more
distinct
branding. As more
people run into KDE 4+, do we really want branding
confusable for theirs?
So they see our logo and assume we're just like KDE 4
or 5
and use Gnome
instead? (That would make Miguel de Icaza's day --
he
vehemently wants
everything KDE related (this especially includes us)
to
cease to exist
last I heard -- my interest in trying out Mono
evaporated
when I read that
article...)
If nothing else, would it not be prudent to have
something
to use should
things change and any reasons for not changing it
evaporate?
>If you are handy with art work (I am not! :)),
how
about working on some
login splash screens for Trinity? Or some
wallpaper?<
The hard part I've been having is FINDING the
locations of
the artwork I
consider most urgent to update (the KDE dragon artwork
when
one looks at
Help->About Trinity in Konqueror, for a glaring
example). Failing
miserably at this, I've since decided to go with the
other
angle and
simply find what I can that needs to be updated.
Most
of what I have so
far are screenshots that need replacing.
If you can find the locations of things needing to be
replaced (K-gear
logos, cute dragon mascots, et c.) PLEASE add them
to:
http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/14
Many thanks in advance! 8)
Strangelv
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8:13 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Trademarks and Needed Artwork
Form before function? Hmm. I better take a nap! :D
Darrell
I had a whole long response written out, but my Email client ate it, so I
will summarize below:
a.) The artists can't help with technical aspects of Trinity anyway, so no
manpower is being diverted from bugfixing, functionality improvements,
etc.
b.) A standing pool of new artwork is a GOOD THING and can prevent UI
stagnation.
c.) We are not obligated to use anything the art team comes up with, but
if a majority of devs/users like some of the artwork we can incorporate it
easily.
d.) We are still under the umbrella of KDE e.V., so we won't get sued for
using their trademarks at this point.
e.) The "crystal T" logo is not infringing anything, as it is not a direct
copy of the "crystal K" logo. If anything the background similarity is
merely an homage the Trinity project's origins.
f.) Konqy may have to go. Fortunately he only shows up in a few places in
kdelibs/kdebase; replacement suggestions are welcome.
Tim
8:39 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Trademarks and Needed Artwork
I personally have no opinion either way. I will add in a few comments though:
If it is a legal issue, we should change the artwork and branding. I'm
not too familiar with the Creative Commons licenses, but if they
prevent us from reusing the artwork and KDE e.V. decides to kick us,
we'll need to replace it regardless, so it would be wise to have stuff
ready regardless.
When most people think of rebranding, they think of both the names of
the apps and the artwork, or at least most of the people I know
(myself included). If it is just the artwork, we should say "artwork
rebranding" instead of just "rebranding".
For the artwork, I can go around with my camera and take pics of some
of the scenary in my area. While I don't particularly like the scenary
here, a lot of people do. I personally don't care for a bunch of tall,
lighted buildings in a blur of smog, but apparently that is popular
(I've heard so many people say, "Ooh, that is so pretty!" when driving
into town at night). Buildings aren't the only pics I can get. While
it's too late to get a snow covered landscape (spring finally arrived
after weeks of unpredictable weather), I can get some spring and
summer stuff, and maybe autumn if we're still working on the artwork.
I'm no good with photo editing and imposing pics and logos on top of
other images, so someone else would have to do it, but I can still
send some stuff in.
--
Kris
"Piki"
Ark Linux Webmaster
Trinity Desktop Environment Packager
4998
days inactive
4999
days old
12 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Baho Utot -
calvin morrison -
Darrell Anderson -
David C. Rankin -
jamesg＠dimensionality.com -
Katheryne Draven -
Kristopher Gamrat -
Timothy Pearson