On 05/19/2019 04:56 PM, deloptes wrote:
Amarok remove ( https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=921127 ) argues "it's dead upstream and better alternatives exist."
mp4v2 has 9 ignored security issues ( https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/mp4v2 ) so if it is possible to modify it in order to Amarpk does not depend on mp4v2, then much better (Qt4/Qt5 Amarok versions do not depend on mp4v2).
I think if we want to remove this dependency, we need to open an issue in TGW for it.
The problem becomes, and naturally so, that TDE may need to become upstream for the various components of Amarok, or Amarok itself it upsteam support is gone.
There was a lengthy discussion on the openSuSE list about Amarok and specifically whether a "better alternatives exist.". There were none found that provided the traditional features or behavior of Amarok, which mitigates in favor of patching Amarok and continuing to offer it. There were always shortcomings in the supposed better alternatives that either required hacks or workarounds, even for behavior as trivial as continual play.
Just another angle to consider. The openSuSE list discussion was within the past 2-weeks, though I must have deleted that thread.
There was a lengthy discussion on the openSuSE list about Amarok and specifically whether a "better alternatives exist.". There were none found that provided the traditional features or behavior of Amarok
I switched from using Windows to Linux some 15 years ago. Amarok was the single primary reason for this move. I was a student spending most of my day luistening to music and no Windows (nor Linux!) application even came close to offering the features that Amarok had. 15 years later I am still relying on Amarok on a daily basis, even though many of the features it offered in the past no longer work due to bitrot (e.g. fetching album covers from Amazon or lyrics from various sites). Saying that it would be sad to see it go would be a huge understatement.
Janek
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On 09/07/2019 15:22, Jan Stolarek wrote:
There was a lengthy discussion on the openSuSE list about Amarok and specifically whether a "better alternatives exist.". There were none found that provided the traditional features or behavior of Amarok
I switched from using Windows to Linux some 15 years ago. Amarok was the single primary reason for this move. I was a student spending most of my day luistening to music and no Windows (nor Linux!) application even came close to offering the features that Amarok had. 15 years later I am still relying on Amarok on a daily basis, even though many of the features it offered in the past no longer work due to bitrot (e.g. fetching album covers from Amazon or lyrics from various sites). Saying that it would be sad to see it go would be a huge understatement.
Janek
Dears,
Reading old mails today!
Just to add that I am also using Amarok 1.4.x since 2006 maybe.
I never found a better replacement, including Amarok 2.x. Actually, I am using TDE repos mainly for Amarok as well as for a few programs I felt in love with (kpdf, kuickshow, ksnapshot, konqueror, kolourpaint, kcolorchooser).
I really hope Amarok will not be dropped from TDE in the 20+ forthcoming years! (At that point, I might get retired, still listening to music a lot, and then consider to contribute to maintain it!)
Nicolas
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Am Mittwoch, 13. Januar 2021 schrieb Nicolas Bercher via trinity-users via tde-users:
I never found a better replacement, including Amarok 2.x. Actually, I am using TDE repos mainly for Amarok as well as for a few programs I felt in love with (kpdf, kuickshow, ksnapshot, konqueror, kolourpaint, kcolorchooser).
I really hope Amarok will not be dropped from TDE in the 20+ forthcoming years! (At that point, I might get retired, still listening to music a lot, and then consider to contribute to maintain it!)
:-)
Cheers, Stefan
On Wednesday 13 of January 2021 19:04:24 Stefan Krusche via tde-users wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 13. Januar 2021 schrieb Nicolas Bercher via trinity-users
via tde-users:
I never found a better replacement, including Amarok 2.x. Actually, I am using TDE repos mainly for Amarok as well as for a few programs I felt in love with (kpdf, kuickshow, ksnapshot, konqueror, kolourpaint, kcolorchooser).
I really hope Amarok will not be dropped from TDE in the 20+ forthcoming years! (At that point, I might get retired, still listening to music a lot, and then consider to contribute to maintain it!)
:-)
Cheers, Stefan ____________________________________________________
I use Amarok practically every day - it's my favorite music player. I don't suppose we want to do something bad to Amarok :) Only maybe we'll want to change the name sometime in the future so that it doesn't conflict with upstream Amarok.
Cheers
On 2021-01-13 12:42:10 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
On Wednesday 13 of January 2021 19:04:24 Stefan Krusche via tde-users
wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 13. Januar 2021 schrieb Nicolas Bercher via trinity-users
via tde-users:
I never found a better replacement, including Amarok 2.x. Actually, I am using TDE repos mainly for Amarok as well as for a few programs I felt in love with (kpdf, kuickshow, ksnapshot, konqueror, kolourpaint, kcolorchooser).
I really hope Amarok will not be dropped from TDE in the 20+ forthcoming years! (At that point, I might get retired, still listening to music a lot, and then consider to contribute to maintain it!)
:-)
Cheers, Stefan ____________________________________________________
I use Amarok practically every day - it's my favorite music player. I don't suppose we want to do something bad to Amarok :) Only maybe we'll want to change the name sometime in the future so that it doesn't conflict with upstream Amarok.
Cheers
Tamarok? :-)
Leslie --
On Wednesday 13 January 2021 01:01:58 pm J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-01-13 12:42:10 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Only maybe we'll want to change the name sometime in the future so that it doesn't conflict with upstream Amarok.
Tamarok? :-)
Nah, follow the existing TDE renaming convention, which I don’ know actually, but it’s something like:
trinity-amarok (debian) ??? (redhat)
And I’d guess there are more than debian and redhat as top level distributions? (OpenSUSE? Mandriva? PCLinuxOS?) But, again, I don’t really know how many distributions TDE works on?
Best, Michael
On 2021-01-13 13:28:01 Michael via tde-users wrote:
On Wednesday 13 January 2021 01:01:58 pm J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-01-13 12:42:10 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Only maybe we'll want to change the name sometime in the future so that it doesn't conflict with upstream Amarok.
Tamarok? :-)
Nah, follow the existing TDE renaming convention, which I don’ know actually, but it’s something like:
trinity-amarok (debian) ??? (redhat)
Well, yes, for the package name.
And I’d guess there are more than debian and redhat as top level distributions? (OpenSUSE? Mandriva? PCLinuxOS?) But, again, I don’t really know how many distributions TDE works on?
RedHat, OpenSuSE and Arch are RPM based. I think Trinity runs on at least one flavour of BSD, and I wish it ran on OS-X, whose built-in desktop is even worse than Windows. :-)
Best, Michael
Leslie --
On Wednesday 13 of January 2021 20:39:15 J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-01-13 13:28:01 Michael via tde-users wrote:
On Wednesday 13 January 2021 01:01:58 pm J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-01-13 12:42:10 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Only maybe we'll want to change the name sometime in the future so that it doesn't conflict with upstream Amarok.
Tamarok? :-)
Nah, follow the existing TDE renaming convention, which I don’ know actually, but it’s something like:
trinity-amarok (debian) ??? (redhat)
Well, yes, for the package name.
And I’d guess there are more than debian and redhat as top level distributions? (OpenSUSE? Mandriva? PCLinuxOS?) But, again, I don’t really know how many distributions TDE works on?
RedHat, OpenSuSE and Arch are RPM based. I think Trinity runs on at least one flavour of BSD, and I wish it ran on OS-X, whose built-in desktop is even worse than Windows. :-)
Best, Michael
Leslie
Yes, as Leslie rightly pointed out, you mention the name of the package, not the name of the binaries / libraries. This is a different level. Package names for Debian-based distributions use "-trinity" as the suffix, while for distributions using RPM, "trinity-" is used as the prefix.
For libraries and some binaries there have been many of renames to k => t, k => tde, kde => tde. But many others still remain the original, so potentially conflicting if installed in /usr instead of in a separate /opt/trinity.
Renaming all remaning libraries and binaries will be a difficult task and a big discussion. For example, the mentioned tamarok sounds good to me. Alternatively, we can think of another long-playing song by Mike Oldfield - like Taurus :)
Cheers
On Wednesday 13 January 2021 03:32:14 pm Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
On Wednesday 13 of January 2021 20:39:15 J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-01-13 13:28:01 Michael via tde-users wrote:
On Wednesday 13 January 2021 01:01:58 pm J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-01-13 12:42:10 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Only maybe we'll want to change the name sometime in the future so that it doesn't conflict with upstream Amarok.
Tamarok? :-)
Nah, follow the existing TDE renaming convention, which I don’ know actually, but it’s something like:
trinity-amarok (debian) ??? (redhat)
Well, yes, for the package name.
And I’d guess there are more than debian and redhat as top level distributions? (OpenSUSE? Mandriva? PCLinuxOS?) But, again, I don’t really know how many distributions TDE works on?
RedHat, OpenSuSE and Arch are RPM based. I think Trinity runs on at least one flavour of BSD, and I wish it ran on OS-X, whose built-in desktop is even worse than Windows. :-)
Best, Michael
Leslie
Yes, as Leslie rightly pointed out, you mention the name of the package, not the name of the binaries / libraries. This is a different level. Package names for Debian-based distributions use "-trinity" as the suffix, while for distributions using RPM, "trinity-" is used as the prefix.
For libraries and some binaries there have been many of renames to k => t, k => tde, kde => tde. But many others still remain the original, so potentially conflicting if installed in /usr instead of in a separate /opt/trinity.
Renaming all remaning libraries and binaries will be a difficult task and a big discussion. For example, the mentioned tamarok sounds good to me. Alternatively, we can think of another long-playing song by Mike Oldfield - like Taurus :)
Ah, cool, thanks for that explanation, I’m sure I could have pieced it together, but it’s nice seeing it all in one place.
Completely just curiosity on my part: If the program name is left as amarok and the TDE version is in /opt/trinity/bin/ would that conflict with amarok (official/upstream? I’m not sure what that name is suppose to be.) in /usr/bin? Or what happens when you have both:
/opt/trinity/bin/amarok /usr/bin/amarok
as being from different packages?
On Wednesday 13 of January 2021 22:54:47 Michael via tde-users wrote:
Ah, cool, thanks for that explanation, I’m sure I could have pieced it together, but it’s nice seeing it all in one place.
Completely just curiosity on my part: If the program name is left as amarok and the TDE version is in /opt/trinity/bin/ would that conflict with amarok (official/upstream? I’m not sure what that name is suppose to be.) in /usr/bin? Or what happens when you have both:
/opt/trinity/bin/amarok /usr/bin/amarok
as being from different packages?
In the current state where Trinity is installed in a separate folder, this does not cause a file conflict, but it depends on how you run the session. If you have a full TDE session, then the PATH is set so that the path /opt/trinity/bin is inserted before /usr/bin, so when you enter "amarok" (without full patch) the Trinity version will start => /opt/trinity/bin/amarok. If you do not have a full TDE session or a manually modified PATH, then the upstream version will start => /usr/bin/amarok.
If we wanted to install in /usr instead of /opt/trinity, then a file conflict would occur and the user could not have both variants installed. Therefore, the need to rename binaries and libraries blocks the possibility of inclusion as a standard part of distributions.
Cheers
On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 13:39:15 -0600 J Leslie Turriff jlturriff@mail.com wrote:
On 2021-01-13 13:28:01 Michael via tde-users wrote:
And I’d guess there are more than debian and redhat as top level distributions? (OpenSUSE? Mandriva? PCLinuxOS?) But, again, I don’t really know how many distributions TDE works on?
RedHat, OpenSuSE and Arch are RPM based. I think Trinity runs on at least one flavour of BSD, and I wish it ran on OS-X, whose built-in desktop is even worse than Windows. :-)
Arch is not an RPM distro. If you try to divide Linux distributions up by package format, you end up with two large and three small families:
The big families descend from Debian and Red Hat.
The small families descend from Slackware, Arch, and Gentoo.
There are also some singletons with their own package formats.
TDE is, or has been, available for all five families, although I'm uncertain of its status on Arch and Slackware at this time (or on BSD for that matter), and not all packages are available for Gentoo (yet).
Whether or not it would be possible to install TDE on OSX with the aid of libraries from something like Homebrew . . . I don't think anyone's ever tried, but my guess is that it wouldn't work very well.
E. Liddell
On 2021-01-13 20:32:54 E. Liddell wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 13:39:15 -0600
J Leslie Turriff jlturriff@mail.com wrote:
On 2021-01-13 13:28:01 Michael via tde-users wrote:
And I’d guess there are more than debian and redhat as top level distributions? (OpenSUSE? Mandriva? PCLinuxOS?) But, again, I don’t really know how many distributions TDE works on?
RedHat, OpenSuSE and Arch are RPM based. I think Trinity runs on at least one flavour of BSD, and I wish it ran on OS-X, whose built-in desktop is even worse than Windows. :-)
Arch is not an RPM distro. If you try to divide Linux distributions up by package format, you end up with two large and three small families:
The big families descend from Debian and Red Hat.
The small families descend from Slackware, Arch, and Gentoo.
There are also some singletons with their own package formats.
TDE is, or has been, available for all five families, although I'm uncertain of its status on Arch and Slackware at this time (or on BSD for that matter), and not all packages are available for Gentoo (yet).
Whether or not it would be possible to install TDE on OSX with the aid of libraries from something like Homebrew . . . I don't think anyone's ever tried, but my guess is that it wouldn't work very well.
E. Liddell
Wups! I know there is at least a third RPM-based Linux; thought that was it.
Leslie --
-
David C. Rankin -
E. Liddell -
J Leslie Turriff -
Jan Stolarek -
Michael -
Nicolas Bercher via trinity-users -
Slávek Banko -
Stefan Krusche