Good morning everybody =)
I'd like to ask, does anyone *actually* use Konqueror to regularly browse the internet? I have used no better file manager than Konqueror but the web aspect seems to be hindered. I don't think its a fault of Konqueror itself but the way web design has changed. You can test this yourself by using wiby.me (an early web design search engine) and looking at sites indexed on it. These usually display fine in Konqueror, but when you go to a modern website like DuckDuckGo for example it doesn't display properly at all. It's a bummer since Konqueror is one of the hallmarks of TDE for me, although I don't know much about the web browser (KHTML) aspect I believe its integrated into some Trinity applications which is a really nice feature. I first really thought of this when I used KlamAV's virus browser function (which I assume is using KHTML integrated) but Trend Micro website (being that it's likely changed a lot) doesn't display properly.
For the time being I'm using SeaMonkey since my usual browser, Pale Moon, does not take too kindly to *BSD.. And since it's a suite with a mail client as well I'm not using Kmail. I might switch to Firefox, but if there is any way to use Konqueror I would love to. There's so many options that far outweigh most dedicated web browsers such as its adblock filters and the ability to disable JavaScript which gets rid of any need for an add-on like uBlock Origin. I completely understand that working on it to display modern web pages is probably too difficult since Trinity's KHTML/Konqueror is older, this is just me dreaming here. Ideally I'd like to be able to make full use of a TDE web browser and the applications that work with it =)
- Hunter aka hunter0one
Hello!
I don't think that Konqueror in its current state is usable for most of the "modern" Web (even Wikipedia!). Hell, a lot of modern websites are actually hardly usable even with Chromium-based browsers (which are the unwritten standard for the modern Web) unless you have lots and lots of RAM to spare. Of course Konqueror's own KHTML/KJS engine is very outdated and has little hope IMO. So, creating a WebKit or WebEngine port for TQt/Trinity seems to be the better solution. But I don't think it's coming anytime soon.
I also use SeaMonkey both for Web and E-Mail (the latter mostly because one of my accounts requires SSO login), but I do use Konqueror for some simple web pages. Still, having a modern web engine is very important, since all Trinity's application will be able to make use of it. KlamAV is indeed a good example, since it uses KHTML/KJS to show web-pages, and does so with quite a big difficulty.
-- Mavridis Philippe
said Hunter via tde-users:
| I'd like to ask, does anyone *actually* use Konqueror to regularly | browse the internet? I have used no better file manager than Konqueror | but the web aspect seems to be hindered. I don't think its a fault of | Konqueror itself but the way web design has changed. You can test this | yourself by using wiby.me (an early web design search engine) and | looking at sites indexed on it. These usually display fine in Konqueror, | but when you go to a modern website like DuckDuckGo for example it | doesn't display properly at all. It's a bummer since Konqueror is one of | the hallmarks of TDE for me, although I don't know much about the web | browser (KHTML) aspect I believe its integrated into some Trinity | applications which is a really nice feature. I first really thought of | this when I used KlamAV's virus browser function (which I assume is | using KHTML integrated) but Trend Micro website (being that it's likely | changed a lot) doesn't display properly. | | For the time being I'm using SeaMonkey since my usual browser, Pale | Moon, does not take too kindly to *BSD.. And since it's a suite with a | mail client as well I'm not using Kmail. I might switch to Firefox, but | if there is any way to use Konqueror I would love to. There's so many | options that far outweigh most dedicated web browsers such as its | adblock filters and the ability to disable JavaScript which gets rid of | any need for an add-on like uBlock Origin. I completely understand that | working on it to display modern web pages is probably too difficult | since Trinity's KHTML/Konqueror is older, this is just me dreaming here. | Ideally I'd like to be able to make full use of a TDE web browser and | the applications that work with it =)
In my estimation Konqueror is not only the worst web browser ever made but the worst from its very inception and the worst imaginable. It's a good file browser, though for anything critical I prefer mc in a terminal or Krusader, which is an X mc. And I very much hope that no one ever tries to make Konqueror a browser anymore -- the idea of it as a web browser was abaodoned by KDE about five years ago, to the regret of no one because it really sucked in that function.
https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?t=132499
There are a lot of good web browsers. (And too many KDE file managers!) -- dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://www.athensnews.com/opinion/columns/the_view_from_mudsock_heights/
dep via tde-users wrote:
In my estimation Konqueror is not only the worst web browser ever made but the worst from its very inception and the worst imaginable. It's a good file browser, though for anything critical I prefer mc in a terminal or Krusader, which is an X mc. And I very much hope that no one ever tries to make Konqueror a browser anymore -- the idea of it as a web browser was abaodoned by KDE about five years ago, to the regret of no one because it really sucked in that function.
https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?t=132499
There are a lot of good web browsers. (And too many KDE file managers!)
dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://www.athensnews.com/opinion/columns/the_view_from_mudsock_heights/ ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
If this is the case, why is it still being upheld in TDE (the web browser portion)? I never used KDE before Plasma as I've only been using Unix-likes since 2016, so I don't know if it's always been this dysfunctional, but I assumed it's because it's outdated.
In my estimation Konqueror is not only the worst web browser ever made but the worst from its very inception and the worst imaginable.
I'd say Internet Explorer is pretty bad.. Anyway, I've seen a few videos from "back in the day" of it being used. It seems that not everybody hates it.
On 2021-06-29 14:01:33 dep via tde-users wrote:
In my estimation Konqueror is not only the worst web browser ever made but the worst from its very inception and the worst imaginable. It's a good file browser, though for anything critical I prefer mc in a terminal or Krusader, which is an X mc. And I very much hope that no one ever tries to make Konqueror a browser anymore -- the idea of it as a web browser was abaodoned by KDE about five years ago, to the regret of no one because it really sucked in that function.
https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?t=132499
There are a lot of good web browsers. (And too many KDE file managers!)
dep
Konqueror was an adequate browser for its time, back when KDE2 was superseded by KDE3, but the (dubious) HTML "standard" has been so much of a moving target, without dedicated Konqueror-only supporters it couldn't keep up. :-( What I really miss is a browser like aWeb, which allowed the user to selectively display images, interactively browse and maintain the cache, and customize its interface even more than KDE does. IMO, the browser development community has sold out to the interests of commercial trackers and data collectors.
Leslie -- Operating System: Linux Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.3 x86_64 Desktop Environment: Trinity Qt: 3.5.0 TDE: R14.0.10 tde-config: 1.0
J Leslie Turriff composed on 2021-06-29 17:31 (UTC-0500):
IMO, the browser development community has sold out to the interests of commercial trackers and data collectors.
I don't think "selling" was the usurpation method. IMO, big money interests found hungry developers they could salary to assimilate into the management sections of development communities to convert the former "user agents" aka web browsers into advertisers' agents and data collectors that are in a near perpetual state of bloat growth.
On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 07:01:33PM +0000, dep via tde-users wrote:
In my estimation Konqueror is not only the worst web browser ever made but the worst from its very inception and the worst imaginable.
In the early 2000s, before the KDE 3 -> KDE 4 redesign that lead to the creation of TDE, I used to regularly use Konquorer on the web. At the time, it was very possibly the best or second web browser available, up there with Opera.
It was so good that Apple used Konquorer's web engine as the basis of Safari.
(To be precise, it was technically KHTML and KJS that were forked to become Webkit, the core of Safari.)
A bit of browser history for the kiddies who may not have been alive back then, and the grown-ups who may have forgotten :-)
In the late 1990s, most of the web was designed for Internet Explorer only, which had over 90% marketshare. Most web developers thought that IE *was* the internet. If you found one that acknowledged the existence of Netscape Navigator, you were doing well. If you found one who tested their web pages on Navigator, you celebrated.
On the Mac, you had IE for Mac. Until Safari came out, Apple's web browser was a version of IE for Mac. Chimera, which later rebranded as Camino, didn't come out until 2002, and Safari in 2003.
On Linux, there were a couple of text-only browsers, lynx and links, Netscape Navigator (which was them forked to Mozilla), Opera, and Konquorer (which came out in 2000). Konq, and Opera, were by far the better of the options. But Opera was closed source and couldn't be distributed with Linux, and Konq only worked with KDE. Midori didn't come out until 2007. So if you wanted a desktop-independent open source graphical web browser in 2000 on Linux, your only choice was Mozilla, even though it was big, bloated and slow.
Mozilla later became the name of the foundation overseeing the former Netscape software products, and the browser renamed as Seamonkey. The web browser parts of Mozilla/Seamonkey were forked into Phoenix, which was then renamed to Firebird, then Firefox.
Firefox changed the world of the web, breaking IE's near monopoly, but that was still many years in the future.
There was no Chrome or Chromium. Opera was closed-source, there was no Vivaldi yet. There was no Brave, and in the glory days of 2000, "privacy on the internet" meant "don't tell people your home address".
In those early days, Javascript was still optional, most web pages were static HTML, and Konquorer was an unknown treasure, unknown outside of the KDE community, and Apple, which took notice of it and forked it for Safari.
It's a good file browser, though for anything critical I prefer mc in a terminal or Krusader, which is an X mc. And I very much hope that no one ever tries to make Konqueror a browser anymore -- the idea of it as a web browser was abaodoned by KDE about five years ago, to the regret of no one because it really sucked in that function.
Somebody ought to tell KDE then, because Konquorer's last update was one day ago:
https://invent.kde.org/network/konqueror
https://apps.kde.org/konqueror/
said Steven D'Aprano via tde-users:
| It was so good that Apple used Konquorer's web engine as the basis of | Safari.
Which is so good that everyone using Mac or IOS first thing gets another browser and commences bitching that it can't be made the default.
| In the late 1990s, most of the web was designed for Internet Explorer | only, which had over 90% marketshare. Most web developers thought that | IE *was* the internet. If you found one that acknowledged the existence | of Netscape Navigator, you were doing well. If you found one who tested | their web pages on Navigator, you celebrated.
Actually, msft got totally blindsided by the advent of the Internet, which is why there wasn't even a tcp/ip stack with stock Win 95 -- which is why the "Windows 95 Plus! Pack" thing got rushed to market.
The market share of which you speak had to do with Microsoft including a basically unremovable IE in every copy of Windows, along with forcing computer makers to pay for a copy of Windows for every computer they sold, whether it had Windows on it or not. At the end of 1995, IE's market share was >3 percent; it was ~40 percent at the end of 1997 -- Netscape still had more than half of the browser market at that time. There was a vast amount of litigation in connection with it. Netscape at the time charged for the Navigator browser and the Communicator suite.
| On Linux, there were a couple of text-only browsers, lynx and links, | Netscape Navigator (which was them forked to Mozilla), Opera, and | Konquorer (which came out in 2000). Konq, and Opera, were by far the | better of the options. But Opera was closed source and couldn't be | distributed with Linux, and Konq only worked with KDE. Midori didn't | come out until 2007. So if you wanted a desktop-independent open source | graphical web browser in 2000 on Linux, your only choice was Mozilla, | even though it was big, bloated and slow.
No. First, from the beginning of KDE there was what amounted to Konqueror, KFM, which was a file manager as well as a browser (and really good ftp client). I've attached a screenshot I made in July 1999 of it displaying the KDE home page. The arrival of Konqueror with KDE2 marked functionally a port of KFM with a new name.
Even so, we had other browsers. Netscape was packaged with most distributions, as was Star Office, which was a lot different from the OpenOffice and LibreOffice it would be decades later. Actually, the Star Office browser in SO-3.x, was pretty nice, though Star Office was an extremely strange desktop paradigm.
The real issue for interoperability was that no one had good .doc filters, so the best most of us could so was save documents as .rtf -- that was a more important aspect of Linux's not being taken up at the time than the browser war was.
| Mozilla later became the name of the foundation overseeing the former | Netscape software products, and the browser renamed as Seamonkey. The | web browser parts of Mozilla/Seamonkey were forked into Phoenix, which | was then renamed to Firebird, then Firefox.
Interestingly, Mozilla was the name netscape had reported itself as being, in browser identification, history, and such, pretty much from the beginning. And heaven help you if you were a Netscape user who had checked the KDE configuration box that applied KDE styles and colors to non-KDE applications.
| Somebody ought to tell KDE then, because Konquorer's last update was one | day ago: | | https://invent.kde.org/network/konqueror | | https://apps.kde.org/konqueror/
I have no doubt that it's being picked at here and there, just as is the KDE office suite that got announced the day KDE 1.0 was released but that has never been ready for prime time, even though there are people still fiddling with it. https://kde.org/announcements/1-2-3/1.0/ As with KFM, its name has gotten changed. I've never heard of anybody using it for anything much, though, because there's other free stuff that's a world better, something it has in common with KFM, Konqueror, and so on. -- dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://www.athensnews.com/opinion/columns/the_view_from_mudsock_heights/
On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 01:51:03AM +0000, dep via tde-users wrote:
said Steven D'Aprano via tde-users:
| It was so good that Apple used Konquorer's web engine as the basis of | Safari.
Which is so good that everyone using Mac or IOS first thing gets another browser and commences bitching that it can't be made the default.
That would be an amazing trick, seeing as Safari came out in 2003 and iOS didn't come out until 2007.
Dep, I'm not sure if you're a Mac user or not, but I don't recall any period when Mac users were generally disatisfied with Safari. Right from the beginning it was faster, more responsive, better looking, and more functional than IE for Mac, which was really showing its age by then.
Of course there are always people looking for something different, or better, but I'm not aware of "everyone" getting a new browser. Especially on Macs, where the majority of users don't tinker with the Apple defaults, that seems to be a rather strong claim.
Blast from the past:
https://www.macworld.com/article/157447/safari.html
https://macdailynews.com/2004/06/05/four_mac_os_x_browsers_that_give_apples_...
| In the late 1990s, most of the web was designed for Internet Explorer | only, which had over 90% marketshare. Most web developers thought that | IE *was* the internet. If you found one that acknowledged the existence | of Netscape Navigator, you were doing well. If you found one who tested | their web pages on Navigator, you celebrated.
Actually, msft got totally blindsided by the advent of the Internet, which is why there wasn't even a tcp/ip stack with stock Win 95 -- which is why the "Windows 95 Plus! Pack" thing got rushed to market.
Yes they were, nevertheless by the late 1990s, IE had captured most of the browser marketshare. I misremembered the peak of IE's share, it was in fact 92% in 2004, so a few years later than I had thought.
The market share of which you speak had to do with Microsoft including a basically unremovable IE in every copy of Windows, along with forcing computer makers to pay for a copy of Windows for every computer they sold, whether it had Windows on it or not.
Indeed, but we're mostly concerned with the period that KDE and Konquorer existed. That's the 2000s onwards.
At the end of 1995, IE's market share was >3 percent; it was ~40 percent at the end of 1997 -- Netscape still had more than half of the browser market at that time.
Sure, but by 2000 IE had about 80% of the market.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_wars
There was a vast amount of litigation in connection with it. Netscape at the time charged for the Navigator browser and the Communicator suite.
| On Linux, there were a couple of text-only browsers, lynx and links, | Netscape Navigator (which was them forked to Mozilla), Opera, and | Konquorer (which came out in 2000). Konq, and Opera, were by far the | better of the options. But Opera was closed source and couldn't be | distributed with Linux, and Konq only worked with KDE. Midori didn't | come out until 2007. So if you wanted a desktop-independent open source | graphical web browser in 2000 on Linux, your only choice was Mozilla, | even though it was big, bloated and slow.
No. First, from the beginning of KDE there was what amounted to Konqueror, KFM, which was a file manager as well as a browser (and really good ftp client). I've attached a screenshot I made in July 1999 of it displaying the KDE home page. The arrival of Konqueror with KDE2 marked functionally a port of KFM with a new name.
True, there was KFM, I had forgotten about that.
https://www.mit.edu/afs.new/athena/system/rhlinux/redhat-6.2-docs/RH-DOCS/gs...
And you are correct, Netscape Navigator was still being used on Linux systems in 2000.
My comments were not intended as an exhaustive list of every single piece of software that had ever been written capable of displaying HTML and following hyperlinks. Star Office, really?
Steven D'Aprano via tde-users composed on 2021-06-30 10:55 (UTC+1000):
On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 07:01:33PM +0000, dep via tde-users wrote:
I very much hope that no one ever tries to make Konqueror a browser anymore -- the idea of it as a web browser was abaodoned by KDE about five years ago, to the regret of no one because it really sucked in that function.
Somebody ought to tell KDE then, because Konquorer's last update was one day ago:
Can you tell if all or most changes since 4 years ago are about keeping it building with webkit rather than making it "functional" as a web browser?
Wow! I thought Falkon was supposed to replace it
Anno domini 2021 Tue, 29 Jun 13:34:27 -0500 Hunter via tde-users scripsit:
Good morning everybody =)
I'd like to ask, does anyone *actually* use Konqueror to regularly browse the internet? I have used no better file manager than Konqueror but the web aspect seems to be hindered. I don't think its a fault of Konqueror itself but the way web design has changed. You can test this yourself by using wiby.me (an early web design search engine) and looking at sites indexed on it. These usually display fine in Konqueror, but when you go to a modern website like DuckDuckGo for example it doesn't display properly at all. It's a bummer since Konqueror is one of the hallmarks of TDE for me, although I don't know much about the web browser (KHTML) aspect I believe its integrated into some Trinity applications which is a really nice feature. I first really thought of this when I used KlamAV's virus browser function (which I assume is using KHTML integrated) but Trend Micro website (being that it's likely changed a lot) doesn't display properly.
For the time being I'm using SeaMonkey since my usual browser, Pale Moon, does not take too kindly to *BSD.. And since it's a suite with a mail client as well I'm not using Kmail. I might switch to Firefox, but if there is any way to use Konqueror I would love to. There's so many options that far outweigh most dedicated web browsers such as its adblock filters and the ability to disable JavaScript which gets rid of any need for an add-on like uBlock Origin. I completely understand that working on it to display modern web pages is probably too difficult since Trinity's KHTML/Konqueror is older, this is just me dreaming here. Ideally I'd like to be able to make full use of a TDE web browser and the applications that work with it =)
Just my ¢; I loved konqueror to browse the net ... but that was a different net, not to say totally alien. Remember goopher? There was a time when you could choose the rendering engine in konqueror. This option is long gone, a propper integration of e.g. firefox rendering engine would end at firefox-with-different-decos, so no win. How many different rendering engines are under active development now? 4? Less then 10 I bet. CSS of KHTML never implemented the full standard, now it's totally outdated. I don't see a way to get it on track again - and I doubt it would be of any use. KHTML is good for browsing the man:// and info:// pages - there's no better way to do it.
Nik
- Hunter aka hunter0one
tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
I agree that Konqueror is the best file manager.
As a web browser, it's a rowboat in a world of jet aircraft.
On 6/29/21, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp office@klepp.biz wrote:
Anno domini 2021 Tue, 29 Jun 13:34:27 -0500 Hunter via tde-users scripsit:
Good morning everybody =)
I'd like to ask, does anyone *actually* use Konqueror to regularly browse the internet? I have used no better file manager than Konqueror but the web aspect seems to be hindered. I don't think its a fault of Konqueror itself but the way web design has changed. You can test this yourself by using wiby.me (an early web design search engine) and looking at sites indexed on it. These usually display fine in Konqueror, but when you go to a modern website like DuckDuckGo for example it doesn't display properly at all. It's a bummer since Konqueror is one of the hallmarks of TDE for me, although I don't know much about the web browser (KHTML) aspect I believe its integrated into some Trinity applications which is a really nice feature. I first really thought of this when I used KlamAV's virus browser function (which I assume is using KHTML integrated) but Trend Micro website (being that it's likely changed a lot) doesn't display properly.
For the time being I'm using SeaMonkey since my usual browser, Pale Moon, does not take too kindly to *BSD.. And since it's a suite with a mail client as well I'm not using Kmail. I might switch to Firefox, but if there is any way to use Konqueror I would love to. There's so many options that far outweigh most dedicated web browsers such as its adblock filters and the ability to disable JavaScript which gets rid of any need for an add-on like uBlock Origin. I completely understand that working on it to display modern web pages is probably too difficult since Trinity's KHTML/Konqueror is older, this is just me dreaming here. Ideally I'd like to be able to make full use of a TDE web browser and the applications that work with it =)
Just my ¢; I loved konqueror to browse the net ... but that was a different net, not to say totally alien. Remember goopher? There was a time when you could choose the rendering engine in konqueror. This option is long gone, a propper integration of e.g. firefox rendering engine would end at firefox-with-different-decos, so no win. How many different rendering engines are under active development now? 4? Less then 10 I bet. CSS of KHTML never implemented the full standard, now it's totally outdated. I don't see a way to get it on track again - and I doubt it would be of any use. KHTML is good for browsing the man:// and info:// pages - there's no better way to do it.
Nik
- Hunter aka hunter0one
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CSS of KHTML never implemented the full standard, now it's totally outdated. I don't see a way to get it on track again - and I doubt it would be of any use. KHTML is good for browsing the man:// and info:// pages - there's no better way to do it.
I don't think the major problem is CSS; the major problem must be JavaScript and the different APIs which are constantly increasing in number (WebAudio, WebSockets, there was even an API for accessing USB devices if I remember correctly) and all this is just adding to the bloat of the "modern" Web. Does one /really/ need all of these APIs? What's the next step? An API for brewing coffee?
In this frustrating course that the Web has taken it does not surprise me how many people are "going back to the roots" and re-discovering Gopher just for fun... There is even this new protocol, Gemini, which was created because the Web is the mess it is.
I think it is highly improbable that KHTML will thrive in its current form. Speaking historically, WebKit was based on KHTML, so why not port WebKit instead? There is no way that such a small team be able to compete with giants like Google and... ehh... Google. I don't know about Mozilla. They give away an impression of stagnation. Nothing seems to truly change except for the constant UI reorganizations and option removal. They even threw away their "native" extensions API for the disfunctional WebExtensions solution.
-- Mavridis Philippe
On 2021-06-29 14:28:07 Mavridis Philippe wrote:
I don't know about Mozilla. They give away an impression of stagnation. Nothing seems to truly change except for the constant UI reorganizations and option removal. They even threw away their "native" extensions API for the disfunctional WebExtensions solution.
Mozilla perpetually touts their browser as "for the user", but they have moved most of its configuration settings into the opaque about:config interface, which uses closed documentation and obscure naming to discourage users from using it. The more accessible controls are so coarse-grained it's hard to tell just what they do. Firefox seems to be much too voluble about users' activities, reporting excessive amounts of information back to Mozilla and other entities for my taste. (Much of that can be turned off if one can figure out which about:config entries do what.) I'm starting to see more and more websites rejecting alternatives to Firefox and its popular siblings; quite a few sites won't let me connect with Waterfox.
Leslie -- Operating System: Linux Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.3 x86_64 Desktop Environment: Trinity Qt: 3.5.0 TDE: R14.0.10 tde-config: 1.0
On Tuesday 29 June 2021 01:34:27 pm Hunter via tde-users wrote:
For the time being I'm using SeaMonkey since my usual browser, Pale Moon, does not take too kindly to *BSD.. And since it's a suite with a mail client as well I'm not using Kmail. I might switch to Firefox
I use 6+ different web browsers on a regular basis, somewhat categorized by activity.
Daily Driver: Waterfox (w/ HTTPS Everywhere, Privacy Badger, uBlock Origin) Banking, library, and similar highly identifiable access accounts: Pale Moon Website work: Vivaldi Website QA only: Firefox & Chromium (w/ no addons) Misc: Opera YouTube, Google, and anything else known to be sketchy: Tor browser bundle (stock)
I also generally delete all cookies at least daily (except banking w/ idiotic IT departments). If you’re even more paranoid than the above, add in Whonix as well.
I also agree with Nik, Konqueror never was a decent web browser, but it’s one great file manager (or I’ve used it so long I’m not willing to even try anything else…).
Best, Michael
On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 13:34:27 -0500 Hunter via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
I'd like to ask, does anyone *actually* use Konqueror to regularly browse the internet?
Don't. It's a good file manager, but it doesn't implement the most recent Web standards. It remains mostly usable for static pages or those generated using server-side systems like PHP or CGI, but strictly server-side pages are rare these days. Konqueror's Javascript engine is antiquated to the point of uselessness, and most "modern" pages rely on Javascript.
[Insert 20-page foaming rant about incompetent designers here. Man, I feel old.]
The idea of replacing Konqueror's existing HTML rendering engine with WebKit was floated at one point, but TDE has never had enough manpower to attempt it.
Use *anything* else for general browsing.
E. Liddell
On Tuesday 29 of June 2021 20:34:27 Hunter via tde-users wrote:
Good morning everybody =)
I'd like to ask, does anyone *actually* use Konqueror to regularly browse the internet? I have used no better file manager than Konqueror but the web aspect seems to be hindered. I don't think its a fault of Konqueror itself but the way web design has changed. You can test this yourself by using wiby.me (an early web design search engine) and looking at sites indexed on it. These usually display fine in Konqueror, but when you go to a modern website like DuckDuckGo for example it doesn't display properly at all. It's a bummer since Konqueror is one of the hallmarks of TDE for me, although I don't know much about the web browser (KHTML) aspect I believe its integrated into some Trinity applications which is a really nice feature. I first really thought of this when I used KlamAV's virus browser function (which I assume is using KHTML integrated) but Trend Micro website (being that it's likely changed a lot) doesn't display properly.
For the time being I'm using SeaMonkey since my usual browser, Pale Moon, does not take too kindly to *BSD.. And since it's a suite with a mail client as well I'm not using Kmail. I might switch to Firefox, but if there is any way to use Konqueror I would love to. There's so many options that far outweigh most dedicated web browsers such as its adblock filters and the ability to disable JavaScript which gets rid of any need for an add-on like uBlock Origin. I completely understand that working on it to display modern web pages is probably too difficult since Trinity's KHTML/Konqueror is older, this is just me dreaming here. Ideally I'd like to be able to make full use of a TDE web browser and the applications that work with it =)
- Hunter aka hunter0one
Although it may seem suspicious, Konqueror is my primary browser. Only if the page does not appear usable, I open it in Pale Moon. Chromium or Chrome I only use for (crazy) MS Teams or (significantly better) Jitsi meet - for example, on https://meet.vpsfree.cz.
I am aware that some CSS are not displayed correctly, but fortunately it often does not reduce the readability of the pages. And the fact that HTML5 things do not work properly, as well as the "modern" JavaScript pages often keeps me away from "amazing" ads and other "necessary" things, which I don't mind at all. For me it is great that Konqueror opens / closes greatly faster than any "modern" browser. And for many things I need, Konqueror works well.
I definitely disagree with the statement that Konqueror is the worst web browser ever created. The fact that Webkit originated as fork of KHTML confirms that the basis was definitely good.
Sure, I would like Konqueror could be used also for modern web pages - for example, to use WebKit engine instead of old KHTML/TDEHTML. Here we must consider not only due to CSS, but mainly due to JavaScript. For example, to be able to use TGW in Konqueror. But definitely I'm not a supporter of removing web browsing capability from Konqueror. I use it every day, so there doesn't make sense to want to shoot into my own feet. What makes for me sense is to consider whether to go the way to integrate webkit engine or porting functionality from webkit back to tdehtml. The problem is that we do not have enough time and programmers who could do it.
Cheers
On Tuesday 29 June 2021 06:46:04 pm Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Although it may seem suspicious, Konqueror is my primary browser. Only if the page does not appear usable, I open it in Pale Moon. Chromium or Chrome I only use for (crazy) MS Teams or (significantly better) Jitsi meet - for example, on https://meet.vpsfree.cz.
I am aware that some CSS are not displayed correctly, but fortunately it often does not reduce the readability of the pages. And the fact that HTML5 things do not work properly, as well as the "modern" JavaScript pages often keeps me away from "amazing" ads and other "necessary" things, which I don't mind at all. For me it is great that Konqueror opens / closes greatly faster than any "modern" browser. And for many things I need, Konqueror works well.
I definitely disagree with the statement that Konqueror is the worst web browser ever created. The fact that Webkit originated as fork of KHTML confirms that the basis was definitely good.
Sure, I would like Konqueror could be used also for modern web pages - for example, to use WebKit engine instead of old KHTML/TDEHTML. Here we must consider not only due to CSS, but mainly due to JavaScript. For example, to be able to use TGW in Konqueror. But definitely I'm not a supporter of removing web browsing capability from Konqueror. I use it every day, so there doesn't make sense to want to shoot into my own feet. What makes for me sense is to consider whether to go the way to integrate webkit engine or porting functionality from webkit back to tdehtml. The problem is that we do not have enough time and programmers who could do it.
Cheers
Thanks for your reply to this situation. I would do the same in regards to using Konqueror + another browser for "modern" features but I don't like going between different applications doing the same thing (which is why I wouldn't use Kmail while I used SeaMonkey). I am actually using Kmail to compose this as I'm using Firefox for web now (with the Arkenfox user.js which disables Mozilla's questionable features from the browser).
If the move to WebKit / porting to tdehtml happened, I'd have no reason to use anything else but Konqueror. The adblock filter and other features in it are incredibly handy and bypasses things that other browsers would need addons for; This alone makes me like it a lot in regards to being a web browser. Understandably, I see how switching or using WebKit would be quite a difficult feat right now and I appreciate that the devs do what they can.
I said in another reply I'm in college (yes I'm quite a young'n) hoping to learn a thing or two about coding/contributing since I never got the opportunity before.. I'd gladly help out if I felt comfortable enough with my own skills :-)
On 2021-06-29 18:46:04 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 29 of June 2021 20:34:27 Hunter via tde-users wrote:
Good morning everybody =)
I'd like to ask, does anyone *actually* use Konqueror to regularly browse the internet? I have used no better file manager than Konqueror but the web aspect seems to be hindered. I don't think its a fault of Konqueror itself but the way web design has changed. You can test this yourself by using wiby.me (an early web design search engine) and looking at sites indexed on it. These usually display fine in Konqueror, but when you go to a modern website like DuckDuckGo for example it doesn't display properly at all. It's a bummer since Konqueror is one of the hallmarks of TDE for me, although I don't know much about the web browser (KHTML) aspect I believe its integrated into some Trinity applications which is a really nice feature. I first really thought of this when I used KlamAV's virus browser function (which I assume is using KHTML integrated) but Trend Micro website (being that it's likely changed a lot) doesn't display properly.
For the time being I'm using SeaMonkey since my usual browser, Pale Moon, does not take too kindly to *BSD.. And since it's a suite with a mail client as well I'm not using Kmail. I might switch to Firefox, but if there is any way to use Konqueror I would love to. There's so many options that far outweigh most dedicated web browsers such as its adblock filters and the ability to disable JavaScript which gets rid of any need for an add-on like uBlock Origin. I completely understand that working on it to display modern web pages is probably too difficult since Trinity's KHTML/Konqueror is older, this is just me dreaming here. Ideally I'd like to be able to make full use of a TDE web browser and the applications that work with it =)
- Hunter aka hunter0one
Although it may seem suspicious, Konqueror is my primary browser. Only if the page does not appear usable, I open it in Pale Moon. Chromium or Chrome I only use for (crazy) MS Teams or (significantly better) Jitsi meet - for example, on https://meet.vpsfree.cz.
I am aware that some CSS are not displayed correctly, but fortunately it often does not reduce the readability of the pages. And the fact that HTML5 things do not work properly, as well as the "modern" JavaScript pages often keeps me away from "amazing" ads and other "necessary" things, which I don't mind at all. For me it is great that Konqueror opens / closes greatly faster than any "modern" browser. And for many things I need, Konqueror works well.
I definitely disagree with the statement that Konqueror is the worst web browser ever created. The fact that Webkit originated as fork of KHTML confirms that the basis was definitely good.
Sure, I would like Konqueror could be used also for modern web pages - for example, to use WebKit engine instead of old KHTML/TDEHTML. Here we must consider not only due to CSS, but mainly due to JavaScript. For example, to be able to use TGW in Konqueror. But definitely I'm not a supporter of removing web browsing capability from Konqueror. I use it every day, so there doesn't make sense to want to shoot into my own feet. What makes for me sense is to consider whether to go the way to integrate webkit engine or porting functionality from webkit back to tdehtml. The problem is that we do not have enough time and programmers who could do it.
Cheers
This is slightly off-topic, but can you tell me what, if any, functionality the Konqueror configuration for Plugins provides? Particularly, where does one acquire Netscape plugins these days?
Leslie
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Curt Howland -
dep -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
E. Liddell -
Felix Miata -
Hunter -
J Leslie Turriff -
Mavridis Philippe -
Michael -
Slávek Banko -
Steven D'Aprano