29 Jun
2021
29 Jun
'21
6:34 p.m.
Good morning everybody =)
I'd like to ask, does anyone *actually* use Konqueror to regularly
browse the internet? I have used no better file manager than Konqueror
but the web aspect seems to be hindered. I don't think its a fault of
Konqueror itself but the way web design has changed. You can test this
yourself by using wiby.me (an early web design search engine) and
looking at sites indexed on it. These usually display fine in Konqueror,
but when you go to a modern website like DuckDuckGo for example it
doesn't display properly at all. It's a bummer since Konqueror is one of
the hallmarks of TDE for me, although I don't know much about the web
browser (KHTML) aspect I believe its integrated into some Trinity
applications which is a really nice feature. I first really thought of
this when I used KlamAV's virus browser function (which I assume is
using KHTML integrated) but Trend Micro website (being that it's likely
changed a lot) doesn't display properly.
For the time being I'm using SeaMonkey since my usual browser, Pale
Moon, does not take too kindly to *BSD.. And since it's a suite with a
mail client as well I'm not using Kmail. I might switch to Firefox, but
if there is any way to use Konqueror I would love to. There's so many
options that far outweigh most dedicated web browsers such as its
adblock filters and the ability to disable JavaScript which gets rid of
any need for an add-on like uBlock Origin. I completely understand that
working on it to display modern web pages is probably too difficult
since Trinity's KHTML/Konqueror is older, this is just me dreaming here.
Ideally I'd like to be able to make full use of a TDE web browser and
the applications that work with it =)
- Hunter aka hunter0one
29 Jun
29 Jun
6:55 p.m.
Hello!
I don't think that Konqueror in its current state is usable for most of
the "modern" Web (even Wikipedia!). Hell, a lot of modern websites are
actually hardly usable even with Chromium-based browsers (which are the
unwritten standard for the modern Web) unless you have lots and lots of
RAM to spare. Of course Konqueror's own KHTML/KJS engine is very
outdated and has little hope IMO. So, creating a WebKit or WebEngine
port for TQt/Trinity seems to be the better solution. But I don't think
it's coming anytime soon.
I also use SeaMonkey both for Web and E-Mail (the latter mostly because
one of my accounts requires SSO login), but I do use Konqueror for some
simple web pages. Still, having a modern web engine is very important,
since all Trinity's application will be able to make use of it. KlamAV
is indeed a good example, since it uses KHTML/KJS to show web-pages, and
does so with quite a big difficulty.
--
Mavridis Philippe
7:01 p.m.
said Hunter via tde-users:
| I'd like to ask, does anyone *actually* use Konqueror to regularly
| browse the internet? I have used no better file manager than Konqueror
| but the web aspect seems to be hindered. I don't think its a fault of
| Konqueror itself but the way web design has changed. You can test this
| yourself by using wiby.me (an early web design search engine) and
| looking at sites indexed on it. These usually display fine in Konqueror,
| but when you go to a modern website like DuckDuckGo for example it
| doesn't display properly at all. It's a bummer since Konqueror is one of
| the hallmarks of TDE for me, although I don't know much about the web
| browser (KHTML) aspect I believe its integrated into some Trinity
| applications which is a really nice feature. I first really thought of
| this when I used KlamAV's virus browser function (which I assume is
| using KHTML integrated) but Trend Micro website (being that it's likely
| changed a lot) doesn't display properly.
|
| For the time being I'm using SeaMonkey since my usual browser, Pale
| Moon, does not take too kindly to *BSD.. And since it's a suite with a
| mail client as well I'm not using Kmail. I might switch to Firefox, but
| if there is any way to use Konqueror I would love to. There's so many
| options that far outweigh most dedicated web browsers such as its
| adblock filters and the ability to disable JavaScript which gets rid of
| any need for an add-on like uBlock Origin. I completely understand that
| working on it to display modern web pages is probably too difficult
| since Trinity's KHTML/Konqueror is older, this is just me dreaming here.
| Ideally I'd like to be able to make full use of a TDE web browser and
| the applications that work with it =)
In my estimation Konqueror is not only the worst web browser ever made but
the worst from its very inception and the worst imaginable. It's a good
file browser, though for anything critical I prefer mc in a terminal or
Krusader, which is an X mc. And I very much hope that no one ever tries to
make Konqueror a browser anymore -- the idea of it as a web browser was
abaodoned by KDE about five years ago, to the regret of no one because it
really sucked in that function.
https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?t=132499
There are a lot of good web browsers. (And too many KDE file managers!)
--
dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album
Column: https://www.athensnews.com/opinion/columns/the_view_from_mudsock_heights/
7:21 p.m.
dep via tde-users wrote:
In my estimation Konqueror is not only the worst web
browser ever made but
the worst from its very inception and the worst imaginable. It's a good
file browser, though for anything critical I prefer mc in a terminal or
Krusader, which is an X mc. And I very much hope that no one ever tries to
make Konqueror a browser anymore -- the idea of it as a web browser was
abaodoned by KDE about five years ago, to the regret of no one because it
really sucked in that function.
https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?t=132499
There are a lot of good web browsers. (And too many KDE file managers!)
--
dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album
Column: https://www.athensnews.com/opinion/columns/the_view_from_mudsock_heights/
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If
this is the case, why is it still being upheld in TDE (the web
browser portion)? I never used KDE before Plasma as I've only been using
Unix-likes since 2016, so I don't know if it's always been this
dysfunctional, but I assumed it's because it's outdated.
In my estimation Konqueror is not only the worst web
browser ever made but
the worst from its very inception and the worst imaginable.
I'd say Internet
Explorer is pretty bad.. Anyway, I've seen a few videos
from "back in the day" of it being used. It seems that not everybody
hates it.
--
- Hunter aka hunter0one
10:31 p.m.
New subject: [users] Using Konqueror for the web
On 2021-06-29 14:01:33 dep via tde-users wrote:
In my estimation Konqueror is not only the worst web
browser ever made but
the worst from its very inception and the worst imaginable. It's a good
file browser, though for anything critical I prefer mc in a terminal or
Krusader, which is an X mc. And I very much hope that no one ever tries to
make Konqueror a browser anymore -- the idea of it as a web browser was
abaodoned by KDE about five years ago, to the regret of no one because it
really sucked in that function.
https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?t=132499
There are a lot of good web browsers. (And too many KDE file managers!)
--
dep
Konqueror was an adequate browser for its time, back when KDE2 was superseded by KDE3,
but the (dubious) HTML "standard" has been so much of a moving target, without
dedicated
Konqueror-only supporters it couldn't keep up. :-(
What I really miss is a browser like aWeb, which allowed the user to selectively display
images, interactively browse and maintain the cache, and customize its interface even
more than KDE does. IMO, the browser development community has sold out to the interests
of commercial trackers and data collectors.
Leslie
--
Operating System: Linux
Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.3 x86_64
Desktop Environment: Trinity
Qt: 3.5.0
TDE: R14.0.10
tde-config: 1.0
30 Jun
30 Jun
8:37 a.m.
J Leslie Turriff composed on 2021-06-29 17:31 (UTC-0500):
IMO, the browser development community has sold out to
the interests
of commercial trackers and data collectors.
I don't think "selling" was the usurpation method. IMO, big money interests
found
hungry developers they could salary to assimilate into the management sections of
development communities to convert the former "user agents" aka web browsers
into
advertisers' agents and data collectors that are in a near perpetual state of
bloat growth.
--
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata
12:55 a.m.
On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 07:01:33PM +0000, dep via tde-users wrote:
In my estimation Konqueror is not only the worst web
browser ever made but
the worst from its very inception and the worst imaginable.
In the early 2000s, before the KDE 3 -> KDE 4 redesign that lead to the
creation of TDE, I used to regularly use Konquorer on the web. At the
time, it was very possibly the best or second web browser available, up
there with Opera.
It was so good that Apple used Konquorer's web engine as the basis of
Safari.
(To be precise, it was technically KHTML and KJS that were forked to
become Webkit, the core of Safari.)
A bit of browser history for the kiddies who may not have been alive
back then, and the grown-ups who may have forgotten :-)
In the late 1990s, most of the web was designed for Internet Explorer
only, which had over 90% marketshare. Most web developers thought that
IE *was* the internet. If you found one that acknowledged the existence
of Netscape Navigator, you were doing well. If you found one who tested
their web pages on Navigator, you celebrated.
On the Mac, you had IE for Mac. Until Safari came out, Apple's web
browser was a version of IE for Mac. Chimera, which later rebranded as
Camino, didn't come out until 2002, and Safari in 2003.
On Linux, there were a couple of text-only browsers, lynx and links,
Netscape Navigator (which was them forked to Mozilla), Opera, and
Konquorer (which came out in 2000). Konq, and Opera, were by far the
better of the options. But Opera was closed source and couldn't be
distributed with Linux, and Konq only worked with KDE. Midori didn't
come out until 2007. So if you wanted a desktop-independent open source
graphical web browser in 2000 on Linux, your only choice was Mozilla,
even though it was big, bloated and slow.
Mozilla later became the name of the foundation overseeing the former
Netscape software products, and the browser renamed as Seamonkey. The
web browser parts of Mozilla/Seamonkey were forked into Phoenix, which
was then renamed to Firebird, then Firefox.
Firefox changed the world of the web, breaking IE's near monopoly, but
that was still many years in the future.
There was no Chrome or Chromium. Opera was closed-source, there was no
Vivaldi yet. There was no Brave, and in the glory days of 2000, "privacy
on the internet" meant "don't tell people your home address".
In those early days, Javascript was still optional, most web pages were
static HTML, and Konquorer was an unknown treasure, unknown outside of
the KDE community, and Apple, which took notice of it and forked it for
Safari.
It's a good
file browser, though for anything critical I prefer mc in a terminal or
Krusader, which is an X mc. And I very much hope that no one ever tries to
make Konqueror a browser anymore -- the idea of it as a web browser was
abaodoned by KDE about five years ago, to the regret of no one because it
really sucked in that function.
Somebody ought to tell KDE then, because Konquorer's last update was one
day ago:
https://invent.kde.org/network/konqueror
https://apps.kde.org/konqueror/
--
Steve
1:51 a.m.
said Steven D'Aprano via tde-users:
| It was so good that Apple used Konquorer's web engine as the basis of
| Safari.
Which is so good that everyone using Mac or IOS first thing gets another
browser and commences bitching that it can't be made the default.
| In the late 1990s, most of the web was designed for Internet Explorer
| only, which had over 90% marketshare. Most web developers thought that
| IE *was* the internet. If you found one that acknowledged the existence
| of Netscape Navigator, you were doing well. If you found one who tested
| their web pages on Navigator, you celebrated.
Actually, msft got totally blindsided by the advent of the Internet, which
is why there wasn't even a tcp/ip stack with stock Win 95 -- which is why
the "Windows 95 Plus! Pack" thing got rushed to market.
The market share of which you speak had to do with Microsoft including a
basically unremovable IE in every copy of Windows, along with forcing
computer makers to pay for a copy of Windows for every computer they sold,
whether it had Windows on it or not. At the end of 1995, IE's market share
was >3 percent; it was ~40 percent at the end of 1997 -- Netscape still
had more than half of the browser market at that time. There was a vast
amount of litigation in connection with it. Netscape at the time charged
for the Navigator browser and the Communicator suite.
| On Linux, there were a couple of text-only browsers, lynx and links,
| Netscape Navigator (which was them forked to Mozilla), Opera, and
| Konquorer (which came out in 2000). Konq, and Opera, were by far the
| better of the options. But Opera was closed source and couldn't be
| distributed with Linux, and Konq only worked with KDE. Midori didn't
| come out until 2007. So if you wanted a desktop-independent open source
| graphical web browser in 2000 on Linux, your only choice was Mozilla,
| even though it was big, bloated and slow.
No. First, from the beginning of KDE there was what amounted to Konqueror,
KFM, which was a file manager as well as a browser (and really good ftp
client). I've attached a screenshot I made in July 1999 of it displaying
the KDE home page. The arrival of Konqueror with KDE2 marked functionally
a port of KFM with a new name.
Even so, we had other browsers. Netscape was packaged with most
distributions, as was Star Office, which was a lot different from the
OpenOffice and LibreOffice it would be decades later. Actually, the Star
Office browser in SO-3.x, was pretty nice, though Star Office was an
extremely strange desktop paradigm.
The real issue for interoperability was that no one had good .doc filters,
so the best most of us could so was save documents as .rtf -- that was a
more important aspect of Linux's not being taken up at the time than the
browser war was.
| Mozilla later became the name of the foundation overseeing the former
| Netscape software products, and the browser renamed as Seamonkey. The
| web browser parts of Mozilla/Seamonkey were forked into Phoenix, which
| was then renamed to Firebird, then Firefox.
Interestingly, Mozilla was the name netscape had reported itself as being,
in browser identification, history, and such, pretty much from the
beginning. And heaven help you if you were a Netscape user who had checked
the KDE configuration box that applied KDE styles and colors to non-KDE
applications.
| Somebody ought to tell KDE then, because Konquorer's last update was one
| day ago:
|
| https://invent.kde.org/network/konqueror
|
| https://apps.kde.org/konqueror/
I have no doubt that it's being picked at here and there, just as is the
KDE office suite that got announced the day KDE 1.0 was released but that
has never been ready for prime time, even though there are people still
fiddling with it. https://kde.org/announcements/1-2-3/1.0/
As with KFM, its name has gotten changed. I've never heard of anybody using
it for anything much, though, because there's other free stuff that's a
world better, something it has in common with KFM, Konqueror, and so on.
--
dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album
Column: https://www.athensnews.com/opinion/columns/the_view_from_mudsock_heights/
8:38 a.m.
On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 01:51:03AM +0000, dep via tde-users wrote:
said Steven D'Aprano via tde-users:
| It was so good that Apple used Konquorer's web engine as the basis of
| Safari.
Which is so good that everyone using Mac or IOS first thing gets another
browser and commences bitching that it can't be made the default.
That would be an amazing trick, seeing as Safari came out in 2003 and
iOS didn't come out until 2007.
Dep, I'm not sure if you're a Mac user or not, but I don't recall any
period when Mac users were generally disatisfied with Safari. Right from
the beginning it was faster, more responsive, better looking, and more
functional than IE for Mac, which was really showing its age by then.
Of course there are always people looking for something different, or
better, but I'm not aware of "everyone" getting a new browser.
Especially on Macs, where the majority of users don't tinker with the
Apple defaults, that seems to be a rather strong claim.
Blast from the past:
https://www.macworld.com/article/157447/safari.html
https://macdailynews.com/2004/06/05/four_mac_os_x_browsers_that_give_apples…
| In the late 1990s, most of the web was designed for
Internet Explorer
| only, which had over 90% marketshare. Most web developers thought that
| IE *was* the internet. If you found one that acknowledged the existence
| of Netscape Navigator, you were doing well. If you found one who tested
| their web pages on Navigator, you celebrated.
Actually, msft got totally blindsided by the advent of the Internet, which
is why there wasn't even a tcp/ip stack with stock Win 95 -- which is why
the "Windows 95 Plus! Pack" thing got rushed to market.
Yes they were, nevertheless by the late 1990s, IE had captured most of
the browser marketshare. I misremembered the peak of IE's share, it was
in fact 92% in 2004, so a few years later than I had thought.
The market share of which you speak had to do with
Microsoft including a
basically unremovable IE in every copy of Windows, along with forcing
computer makers to pay for a copy of Windows for every computer they sold,
whether it had Windows on it or not.
Indeed, but we're mostly concerned with the period that KDE and
Konquorer existed. That's the 2000s onwards.
At the end of 1995, IE's market share
was >3 percent; it was ~40 percent at the end of 1997 -- Netscape still
had more than half of the browser market at that time.
Sure, but by 2000 IE had about 80% of the market.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_wars
There was a vast
amount of litigation in connection with it. Netscape at the time charged
for the Navigator browser and the Communicator suite.
| On Linux, there were a couple of text-only browsers, lynx and links,
| Netscape Navigator (which was them forked to Mozilla), Opera, and
| Konquorer (which came out in 2000). Konq, and Opera, were by far the
| better of the options. But Opera was closed source and couldn't be
| distributed with Linux, and Konq only worked with KDE. Midori didn't
| come out until 2007. So if you wanted a desktop-independent open source
| graphical web browser in 2000 on Linux, your only choice was Mozilla,
| even though it was big, bloated and slow.
No. First, from the beginning of KDE there was what amounted to Konqueror,
KFM, which was a file manager as well as a browser (and really good ftp
client). I've attached a screenshot I made in July 1999 of it displaying
the KDE home page. The arrival of Konqueror with KDE2 marked functionally
a port of KFM with a new name.
True, there was KFM, I had forgotten about that.
https://www.mit.edu/afs.new/athena/system/rhlinux/redhat-6.2-docs/RH-DOCS/g…
And you are correct, Netscape Navigator was still being used on Linux
systems in 2000.
My comments were not intended as an exhaustive list of every single
piece of software that had ever been written capable of displaying HTML
and following hyperlinks. Star Office, really?
--
Steve
8:09 a.m.
Steven D'Aprano via tde-users composed on 2021-06-30 10:55 (UTC+1000):
On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 07:01:33PM +0000, dep via
tde-users wrote:
> I very much hope that no one ever tries to
> make Konqueror a browser anymore -- the idea of it as a web browser was
> abaodoned by KDE about five years ago, to the regret of no one because it
> really sucked in that function.
Somebody ought to tell KDE then, because
Konquorer's last update was one
day ago:
Can you tell if all or most changes since 4 years ago are about keeping it
building with webkit rather than making it "functional" as a web browser?
Wow! I thought Falkon was supposed to replace it
--
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata
29 Jun
29 Jun
7:10 p.m.
Anno domini 2021 Tue, 29 Jun 13:34:27 -0500
Hunter via tde-users scripsit:
Good morning everybody =)
I'd like to ask, does anyone *actually* use Konqueror to regularly
browse the internet? I have used no better file manager than Konqueror
but the web aspect seems to be hindered. I don't think its a fault of
Konqueror itself but the way web design has changed. You can test this
yourself by using wiby.me (an early web design search engine) and
looking at sites indexed on it. These usually display fine in Konqueror,
but when you go to a modern website like DuckDuckGo for example it
doesn't display properly at all. It's a bummer since Konqueror is one of
the hallmarks of TDE for me, although I don't know much about the web
browser (KHTML) aspect I believe its integrated into some Trinity
applications which is a really nice feature. I first really thought of
this when I used KlamAV's virus browser function (which I assume is
using KHTML integrated) but Trend Micro website (being that it's likely
changed a lot) doesn't display properly.
For the time being I'm using SeaMonkey since my usual browser, Pale
Moon, does not take too kindly to *BSD.. And since it's a suite with a
mail client as well I'm not using Kmail. I might switch to Firefox, but
if there is any way to use Konqueror I would love to. There's so many
options that far outweigh most dedicated web browsers such as its
adblock filters and the ability to disable JavaScript which gets rid of
any need for an add-on like uBlock Origin. I completely understand that
working on it to display modern web pages is probably too difficult
since Trinity's KHTML/Konqueror is older, this is just me dreaming here.
Ideally I'd like to be able to make full use of a TDE web browser and
the applications that work with it =)
Just my ¢; I loved konqueror to browse the net ... but that was a different net, not to
say totally alien. Remember goopher? There was a time when you could choose the rendering
engine in konqueror. This option is long gone, a propper integration of e.g. firefox
rendering engine would end at firefox-with-different-decos, so no win. How many different
rendering engines are under active development now? 4? Less then 10 I bet. CSS of KHTML
never implemented the full standard, now it's totally outdated. I don't see a way
to get it on track again - and I doubt it would be of any use. KHTML is good for browsing
the man:// and info:// pages - there's no better way to do it.
Nik
- Hunter aka hunter0one
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--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
7:19 p.m.
I agree that Konqueror is the best file manager.
As a web browser, it's a rowboat in a world of jet aircraft.
On 6/29/21, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp <office(a)klepp.biz> wrote:
> Anno domini 2021 Tue, 29 Jun 13:34:27 -0500
> Hunter via tde-users scripsit:
>> Good morning everybody =)
>>
>> I'd like to ask, does anyone *actually* use Konqueror to regularly
>> browse the internet? I have used no better file manager than Konqueror
>> but the web aspect seems to be hindered. I don't think its a fault of
>> Konqueror itself but the way web design has changed. You can test this
>> yourself by using wiby.me (an early web design search engine) and
>> looking at sites indexed on it. These usually display fine in Konqueror,
>> but when you go to a modern website like DuckDuckGo for example it
>> doesn't display properly at all. It's a bummer since Konqueror is one of
>> the hallmarks of TDE for me, although I don't know much about the web
>> browser (KHTML) aspect I believe its integrated into some Trinity
>> applications which is a really nice feature. I first really thought of
>> this when I used KlamAV's virus browser function (which I assume is
>> using KHTML integrated) but Trend Micro website (being that it's likely
>> changed a lot) doesn't display properly.
>>
>> For the time being I'm using SeaMonkey since my usual browser, Pale
>> Moon, does not take too kindly to *BSD.. And since it's a suite with a
>> mail client as well I'm not using Kmail. I might switch to Firefox, but
>> if there is any way to use Konqueror I would love to. There's so many
>> options that far outweigh most dedicated web browsers such as its
>> adblock filters and the ability to disable JavaScript which gets rid of
>> any need for an add-on like uBlock Origin. I completely understand that
>> working on it to display modern web pages is probably too difficult
>> since Trinity's KHTML/Konqueror is older, this is just me dreaming here.
>> Ideally I'd like to be able to make full use of a TDE web browser and
>> the applications that work with it =)
>
> Just my ¢; I loved konqueror to browse the net ... but that was a different
> net, not to say totally alien. Remember goopher? There was a time when you
> could choose the rendering engine in konqueror. This option is long gone, a
> propper integration of e.g. firefox rendering engine would end at
> firefox-with-different-decos, so no win. How many different rendering
> engines are under active development now? 4? Less then 10 I bet. CSS of
> KHTML never implemented the full standard, now it's totally outdated. I
> don't see a way to get it on track again - and I doubt it would be of any
> use. KHTML is good for browsing the man:// and info:// pages - there's no
> better way to do it.
>
> Nik
>
>
>>
>> - Hunter aka hunter0one
>> ____________________________________________________
>> tde-users mailing list -- users(a)trinitydesktop.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
>> Web mail archive available at
>>
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing
> with the NSA, CIA ...
> ____________________________________________________
> tde-users mailing list -- users(a)trinitydesktop.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
> Web mail archive available at
> https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
>
7:28 p.m.
CSS of KHTML never implemented the full standard, now
it's totally
outdated. I don't see a way to get it on track again - and I doubt it
would be of any use. KHTML is good for browsing the man:// and info://
pages - there's no better way to do it.
I don't think the major problem is
CSS; the major problem must be
JavaScript and the different APIs which are constantly increasing in
number (WebAudio, WebSockets, there was even an API for accessing USB
devices if I remember correctly) and all this is just adding to the
bloat of the "modern" Web. Does one /really/ need all of these APIs?
What's the next step? An API for brewing coffee?
In this frustrating course that the Web has taken it does not surprise
me how many people are "going back to the roots" and re-discovering
Gopher just for fun... There is even this new protocol, Gemini, which
was created because the Web is the mess it is.
I think it is highly improbable that KHTML will thrive in its current
form. Speaking historically, WebKit was based on KHTML, so why not port
WebKit instead? There is no way that such a small team be able to
compete with giants like Google and... ehh... Google. I don't know about
Mozilla. They give away an impression of stagnation. Nothing seems to
truly change except for the constant UI reorganizations and option
removal. They even threw away their "native" extensions API for the
disfunctional WebExtensions solution.
--
Mavridis Philippe
10:39 p.m.
New subject: [users] Using Konqueror for the web
On 2021-06-29 14:28:07 Mavridis Philippe wrote:
I don't know about
Mozilla. They give away an impression of stagnation. Nothing seems to
truly change except for the constant UI reorganizations and option
removal. They even threw away their "native" extensions API for the
disfunctional WebExtensions solution.
Mozilla perpetually touts their browser as "for the user", but they have moved
most of
its configuration settings into the opaque about:config interface, which uses closed
documentation and obscure naming to discourage users from using it. The more accessible
controls are so coarse-grained it's hard to tell just what they do. Firefox seems to
be
much too voluble about users' activities, reporting excessive amounts of information
back
to Mozilla and other entities for my taste. (Much of that can be turned off if one can
figure out which about:config entries do what.)
I'm starting to see more and more websites rejecting alternatives to Firefox and its
popular siblings; quite a few sites won't let me connect with Waterfox.
Leslie
--
Operating System: Linux
Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.3 x86_64
Desktop Environment: Trinity
Qt: 3.5.0
TDE: R14.0.10
tde-config: 1.0
7:36 p.m.
On Tuesday 29 June 2021 01:34:27 pm Hunter via tde-users wrote:
For the time being I'm using SeaMonkey since my usual browser, Pale
Moon, does not take too kindly to *BSD.. And since it's a suite with a
mail client as well I'm not using Kmail. I might switch to Firefox
I use 6+ different web browsers on a regular basis, somewhat categorized by
activity.
Daily Driver: Waterfox (w/ HTTPS Everywhere, Privacy Badger, uBlock Origin)
Banking, library, and similar highly identifiable access accounts: Pale Moon
Website work: Vivaldi
Website QA only: Firefox & Chromium (w/ no addons)
Misc: Opera
YouTube, Google, and anything else known to be sketchy: Tor browser bundle
(stock)
I also generally delete all cookies at least daily (except banking w/ idiotic
IT departments). If you’re even more paranoid than the above, add in Whonix
as well.
I also agree with Nik, Konqueror never was a decent web browser, but it’s one
great file manager (or I’ve used it so long I’m not willing to even try
anything else…).
Best,
Michael
8:09 p.m.
On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 13:34:27 -0500
Hunter via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
I'd like to ask, does anyone *actually* use
Konqueror to regularly
browse the internet?
Don't. It's a good file manager, but it doesn't implement the most recent
Web standards. It remains mostly usable for static pages or those generated
using server-side systems like PHP or CGI, but strictly server-side pages
are rare these days. Konqueror's Javascript engine is antiquated to the
point of uselessness, and most "modern" pages rely on Javascript.
[Insert 20-page foaming rant about incompetent designers here. Man, I
feel old.]
The idea of replacing Konqueror's existing HTML rendering engine with
WebKit was floated at one point, but TDE has never had enough
manpower to attempt it.
Use *anything* else for general browsing.
E. Liddell
11:46 p.m.
On Tuesday 29 of June 2021 20:34:27 Hunter via tde-users wrote:
Good morning everybody =)
I'd like to ask, does anyone *actually* use Konqueror to regularly
browse the internet? I have used no better file manager than Konqueror
but the web aspect seems to be hindered. I don't think its a fault of
Konqueror itself but the way web design has changed. You can test this
yourself by using wiby.me (an early web design search engine) and
looking at sites indexed on it. These usually display fine in Konqueror,
but when you go to a modern website like DuckDuckGo for example it
doesn't display properly at all. It's a bummer since Konqueror is one of
the hallmarks of TDE for me, although I don't know much about the web
browser (KHTML) aspect I believe its integrated into some Trinity
applications which is a really nice feature. I first really thought of
this when I used KlamAV's virus browser function (which I assume is
using KHTML integrated) but Trend Micro website (being that it's likely
changed a lot) doesn't display properly.
For the time being I'm using SeaMonkey since my usual browser, Pale
Moon, does not take too kindly to *BSD.. And since it's a suite with a
mail client as well I'm not using Kmail. I might switch to Firefox, but
if there is any way to use Konqueror I would love to. There's so many
options that far outweigh most dedicated web browsers such as its
adblock filters and the ability to disable JavaScript which gets rid of
any need for an add-on like uBlock Origin. I completely understand that
working on it to display modern web pages is probably too difficult
since Trinity's KHTML/Konqueror is older, this is just me dreaming here.
Ideally I'd like to be able to make full use of a TDE web browser and
the applications that work with it =)
- Hunter aka hunter0one
____________________________________________________
Although it may seem suspicious, Konqueror is my primary browser. Only if
the page does not appear usable, I open it in Pale Moon. Chromium or
Chrome I only use for (crazy) MS Teams or (significantly better) Jitsi
meet - for example, on https://meet.vpsfree.cz.
I am aware that some CSS are not displayed correctly, but fortunately it
often does not reduce the readability of the pages. And the fact that
HTML5 things do not work properly, as well as the "modern" JavaScript
pages often keeps me away from "amazing" ads and other "necessary"
things,
which I don't mind at all. For me it is great that Konqueror opens /
closes greatly faster than any "modern" browser. And for many things I
need, Konqueror works well.
I definitely disagree with the statement that Konqueror is the worst web
browser ever created. The fact that Webkit originated as fork of KHTML
confirms that the basis was definitely good.
Sure, I would like Konqueror could be used also for modern web pages - for
example, to use WebKit engine instead of old KHTML/TDEHTML. Here we must
consider not only due to CSS, but mainly due to JavaScript. For example,
to be able to use TGW in Konqueror. But definitely I'm not a supporter of
removing web browsing capability from Konqueror. I use it every day, so
there doesn't make sense to want to shoot into my own feet. What makes for
me sense is to consider whether to go the way to integrate webkit engine
or porting functionality from webkit back to tdehtml. The problem is that
we do not have enough time and programmers who could do it.
Cheers
--
Slávek
30 Jun
30 Jun
1:30 a.m.
On Tuesday 29 June 2021 06:46:04 pm Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Although it may seem suspicious, Konqueror is my
primary browser. Only if
the page does not appear usable, I open it in Pale Moon. Chromium or
Chrome I only use for (crazy) MS Teams or (significantly better) Jitsi
meet - for example, on https://meet.vpsfree.cz.
I am aware that some CSS are not displayed correctly, but fortunately it
often does not reduce the readability of the pages. And the fact that
HTML5 things do not work properly, as well as the "modern" JavaScript
pages often keeps me away from "amazing" ads and other "necessary"
things,
which I don't mind at all. For me it is great that Konqueror opens /
closes greatly faster than any "modern" browser. And for many things I
need, Konqueror works well.
I definitely disagree with the statement that Konqueror is the worst web
browser ever created. The fact that Webkit originated as fork of KHTML
confirms that the basis was definitely good.
Sure, I would like Konqueror could be used also for modern web pages - for
example, to use WebKit engine instead of old KHTML/TDEHTML. Here we must
consider not only due to CSS, but mainly due to JavaScript. For example,
to be able to use TGW in Konqueror. But definitely I'm not a supporter of
removing web browsing capability from Konqueror. I use it every day, so
there doesn't make sense to want to shoot into my own feet. What makes for
me sense is to consider whether to go the way to integrate webkit engine
or porting functionality from webkit back to tdehtml. The problem is that
we do not have enough time and programmers who could do it.
Cheers
Thanks for your reply to this situation. I would do the same in regards to
using Konqueror + another browser for "modern" features but I don't like
going between different applications doing the same thing (which is why I
wouldn't use Kmail while I used SeaMonkey). I am actually using Kmail to
compose this as I'm using Firefox for web now (with the Arkenfox user.js
which disables Mozilla's questionable features from the browser).
If the move to WebKit / porting to tdehtml happened, I'd have no reason to use
anything else but Konqueror. The adblock filter and other features in it are
incredibly handy and bypasses things that other browsers would need addons
for; This alone makes me like it a lot in regards to being a web browser.
Understandably, I see how switching or using WebKit would be quite a
difficult feat right now and I appreciate that the devs do what they can.
I said in another reply I'm in college (yes I'm quite a young'n) hoping to
learn a thing or two about coding/contributing since I never got the
opportunity before.. I'd gladly help out if I felt comfortable enough with my
own skills :-)
--
- Hunter, aka hunter0one
6 Jul
6 Jul
10:17 a.m.
New subject: [users] Using Konqueror for the web
On 2021-06-29 18:46:04 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 29 of June 2021 20:34:27 Hunter via
tde-users wrote:
This is slightly off-topic, but can you tell me what, if any, functionality the Konqueror
configuration for Plugins provides? Particularly, where does one acquire Netscape
plugins these days?
Leslie
--
Operating System: Linux
Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.3 x86_64
Desktop Environment: Trinity
Qt: 3.5.0
TDE: R14.0.10
tde-config: 1.0
Good morning everybody =)
I'd like to ask, does anyone *actually* use Konqueror to regularly
browse the internet? I have used no better file manager than Konqueror
but the web aspect seems to be hindered. I don't think its a fault of
Konqueror itself but the way web design has changed. You can test this
yourself by using wiby.me (an early web design search engine) and
looking at sites indexed on it. These usually display fine in Konqueror,
but when you go to a modern website like DuckDuckGo for example it
doesn't display properly at all. It's a bummer since Konqueror is one of
the hallmarks of TDE for me, although I don't know much about the web
browser (KHTML) aspect I believe its integrated into some Trinity
applications which is a really nice feature. I first really thought of
this when I used KlamAV's virus browser function (which I assume is
using KHTML integrated) but Trend Micro website (being that it's likely
changed a lot) doesn't display properly.
For the time being I'm using SeaMonkey since my usual browser, Pale
Moon, does not take too kindly to *BSD.. And since it's a suite with a
mail client as well I'm not using Kmail. I might switch to Firefox, but
if there is any way to use Konqueror I would love to. There's so many
options that far outweigh most dedicated web browsers such as its
adblock filters and the ability to disable JavaScript which gets rid of
any need for an add-on like uBlock Origin. I completely understand that
working on it to display modern web pages is probably too difficult
since Trinity's KHTML/Konqueror is older, this is just me dreaming here.
Ideally I'd like to be able to make full use of a TDE web browser and
the applications that work with it =)
- Hunter aka hunter0one
____________________________________________________
Although it may seem suspicious, Konqueror is my primary browser. Only if
the page does not appear usable, I open it in Pale Moon. Chromium or
Chrome I only use for (crazy) MS Teams or (significantly better) Jitsi
meet - for example, on https://meet.vpsfree.cz.
I am aware that some CSS are not displayed correctly, but fortunately it
often does not reduce the readability of the pages. And the fact that
HTML5 things do not work properly, as well as the "modern" JavaScript
pages often keeps me away from "amazing" ads and other "necessary"
things,
which I don't mind at all. For me it is great that Konqueror opens /
closes greatly faster than any "modern" browser. And for many things I
need, Konqueror works well.
I definitely disagree with the statement that Konqueror is the worst web
browser ever created. The fact that Webkit originated as fork of KHTML
confirms that the basis was definitely good.
Sure, I would like Konqueror could be used also for modern web pages - for
example, to use WebKit engine instead of old KHTML/TDEHTML. Here we must
consider not only due to CSS, but mainly due to JavaScript. For example,
to be able to use TGW in Konqueror. But definitely I'm not a supporter of
removing web browsing capability from Konqueror. I use it every day, so
there doesn't make sense to want to shoot into my own feet. What makes for
me sense is to consider whether to go the way to integrate webkit engine
or porting functionality from webkit back to tdehtml. The problem is that
we do not have enough time and programmers who could do it.
Cheers
1264
days inactive
1271
days old
18 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Curt Howland -
dep -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
E. Liddell -
Felix Miata -
Hunter -
J Leslie Turriff -
Mavridis Philippe -
Michael -
Slávek Banko -
Steven D'Aprano