On Sunday 18 February 2018 14.41:01 William Morder wrote:
I've been trying out TDE off and on since the project started; ever since they killed KDE3, and I looked around for something as usable and practical as the KDE3x desktop (which I first used on PC Linux, and later on Ubuntu Hardy 8.04).
(...)
In other words, it was the KDE desktop environment, and the default settings therein, which were interfering with the smooth operation of TDE.
This could be a *buntu problem. I am running TDE on various Debian based distributions as well as openSUSE, *with* KDE 4/5 apps (mostly kdenlive) and no such problem.
(...)
Bill
Thierry
On February 19, 2018 7:45:45 AM GMT+01:00, Thierry de Coulon tcoulon@decoulon.ch wrote:
On Sunday 18 February 2018 14.41:01 William Morder wrote:
I've been trying out TDE off and on since the project started; ever
since
they killed KDE3, and I looked around for something as usable and
practical
as the KDE3x desktop (which I first used on PC Linux, and later on
Ubuntu
Hardy 8.04).
(...)
In other words, it was the KDE desktop environment, and the default settings therein, which were interfering with the smooth operation of
TDE.
This could be a *buntu problem. I am running TDE on various Debian based distributions as well as openSUSE, *with* KDE 4/5 apps (mostly kdenlive) and no such problem.
All of these problems could of course be avoided, regardless of distro, by installing a base, mini, server (or whatever it is called) version. After that, you just add the Trinity repos to the list that your distribution uses.
(...)
Bill
Thierry
Brian
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Brian Durant wrote:
All of these problems could of course be avoided, regardless of distro, by installing a base, mini, server (or whatever it is called) version. After that, you just add the Trinity repos to the list that your distribution uses.
There are some users that tend to run into problems, regardless of os or software installed.
regards
On Sunday 18 February 2018 23:57:08 deloptes wrote:
Brian Durant wrote:
All of these problems could of course be avoided, regardless of distro, by installing a base, mini, server (or whatever it is called) version. After that, you just add the Trinity repos to the list that your distribution uses.
There are some users that tend to run into problems, regardless of os or software installed.
regards
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No major problems now, but this is after going through the process I described. Before that, I ran into similar problems not only on the 'buntus, but on several other distros as well.
However, another user (Brian Durant) made what seems a useful suggestion: to install "a base, mini, server (or whatever it is called) version. After that, you just add the Trinity repos to the list that your distribution uses."
I think the problem is one of too much other stuff from other distros, not enough Trinity.
Anyway, I do not geek for geek's sake, and am not trying to one-up anybody. Building my own system is the only way I can afford to keep a working computer, and actually get work done; it is a matter of survival for me.
Bill
On Sunday 18 February 2018 23:23:38 Brian Durant wrote:
On February 19, 2018 7:45:45 AM GMT+01:00, Thierry de Coulon
tcoulon@decoulon.ch wrote:
On Sunday 18 February 2018 14.41:01 William Morder wrote:
I've been trying out TDE off and on since the project started; ever
since
they killed KDE3, and I looked around for something as usable and
practical
as the KDE3x desktop (which I first used on PC Linux, and later on
Ubuntu
Hardy 8.04).
(...)
In other words, it was the KDE desktop environment, and the default settings therein, which were interfering with the smooth operation of
TDE.
This could be a *buntu problem. I am running TDE on various Debian based distributions as well as openSUSE, *with* KDE 4/5 apps (mostly kdenlive) and no such problem.
All of these problems could of course be avoided, regardless of distro, by installing a base, mini, server (or whatever it is called) version. After that, you just add the Trinity repos to the list that your distribution uses.
(...)
Bill
Thierry
Brian
This sounds like it could be a useful suggestion; do a minimal installation, then add the Trinity repositories.
Bill
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William Morder composed on 2018-02-19 02:30 (UTC-0800):
This sounds like it could be a useful suggestion; do a minimal installation, then add the Trinity repositories.
+1
I rarely do otherwise. :-)
On 2018-02-19 11:30, William Morder wrote:
On Sunday 18 February 2018 23:23:38 Brian Durant wrote:
On February 19, 2018 7:45:45 AM GMT+01:00, Thierry de Coulon
tcoulon@decoulon.ch wrote:
On Sunday 18 February 2018 14.41:01 William Morder wrote:
I've been trying out TDE off and on since the project started; ever
since
they killed KDE3, and I looked around for something as usable and
practical
as the KDE3x desktop (which I first used on PC Linux, and later on
Ubuntu
Hardy 8.04).
(...)
In other words, it was the KDE desktop environment, and the default settings therein, which were interfering with the smooth operation of
TDE.
This could be a *buntu problem. I am running TDE on various Debian based distributions as well as openSUSE, *with* KDE 4/5 apps (mostly kdenlive) and no such problem.
All of these problems could of course be avoided, regardless of distro, by installing a base, mini, server (or whatever it is called) version. After that, you just add the Trinity repos to the list that your distribution uses.
(...)
Bill
Thierry
Brian
This sounds like it could be a useful suggestion; do a minimal installation, then add the Trinity repositories.
Bill
Here is my personal check list to make sure that useful items get added to a minimal install:
$ sudo apt-get install clipit axel aria2 aspell-da audacity ripperx xarchiver desktop-base clipit cups gtkorphan gdebi pulseaudio pavucontrol pepperflash wicd synaptic xcfa xorg
I use Devuan Jessie, which doesn't use systemd. The "desktop-base" package are some Devuan goodies.
Hope the list helps.
Brian
On Monday 19 February 2018 07:36:57 Brian Durant wrote:
On 2018-02-19 11:30, William Morder wrote:
On Sunday 18 February 2018 23:23:38 Brian Durant wrote:
On February 19, 2018 7:45:45 AM GMT+01:00, Thierry de Coulon
tcoulon@decoulon.ch wrote:
On Sunday 18 February 2018 14.41:01 William Morder wrote:
I've been trying out TDE off and on since the project started; ever
since
they killed KDE3, and I looked around for something as usable and
practical
as the KDE3x desktop (which I first used on PC Linux, and later on
Ubuntu
Hardy 8.04).
(...)
In other words, it was the KDE desktop environment, and the default settings therein, which were interfering with the smooth operation of
TDE.
This could be a *buntu problem. I am running TDE on various Debian based distributions as well as openSUSE, *with* KDE 4/5 apps (mostly kdenlive) and no such problem.
All of these problems could of course be avoided, regardless of distro, by installing a base, mini, server (or whatever it is called) version. After that, you just add the Trinity repos to the list that your distribution uses.
(...)
Bill
Thierry
Brian
This sounds like it could be a useful suggestion; do a minimal installation, then add the Trinity repositories.
Bill
Here is my personal check list to make sure that useful items get added to a minimal install:
$ sudo apt-get install clipit axel aria2 aspell-da audacity ripperx xarchiver desktop-base clipit cups gtkorphan gdebi pulseaudio pavucontrol pepperflash wicd synaptic xcfa xorg
I use Devuan Jessie, which doesn't use systemd. The "desktop-base" package are some Devuan goodies.
Hope the list helps.
Brian
Thanks for the checklist of pkgs for minimal installation. It mostly resembles my own, with a few exceptions; but those items look useful.
Also, I am interested in running Devuan over Debian, because I am less than enthusiastic about my systemd experience. It seems like systemd interferes with certain operations.
I set out to learn Debian first, before trying Devuan; because I was used to running the 'buntus, and unfamiliar with the differences in a Debian system.
Now that I've got Debian under control (except for systemd), I think maybe I'm ready to go for Devuan. So if you can offer any advice about making the switch, I would be most grateful.
Devuan repositories (including the onion links) are already in my sources.list. And I now have a second computer, and more liberty to explore and experiment.
Bill
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On 02/19/2018 09:06 AM, William Morder wrote:
Now that I've got Debian under control (except for systemd), I think > maybe I'm ready to go for Devuan. So if you can offer any advice > about
making the switch, I would be most grateful.
I've installed the XFCE version of Good Life Linux (Devuan based) a couple times, then TDE, and it went without a hitch.
I don't really understand why TDE has been so much trouble for you to get working right. I usually install the XFCE version of the distro I want, then install TDE, and it's good to go after a little minor tweaking here & there.
On Monday 19 February 2018 11:46:42 Dan Youngquist wrote:
On 02/19/2018 09:06 AM, William Morder wrote:
Now that I've got Debian under control (except for systemd), I think > maybe I'm ready to go for Devuan. So if you can offer any advice > about
making the switch, I would be most grateful.
I've installed the XFCE version of Good Life Linux (Devuan based) a couple times, then TDE, and it went without a hitch.
I don't really understand why TDE has been so much trouble for you to get working right. I usually install the XFCE version of the distro I want, then install TDE, and it's good to go after a little minor tweaking here & there.
TDE is not much trouble at all for me now; but it was a long time getting to here.
I think maybe it's because I do a lot of different kinds of work, and use maybe more different kinds of software than other users. (My root partition is currently 16 gb, and according to kdiskfree I have only 741 mb of free space; on installations of 'buntu or Debian distros (since about 2012 or so) I generally reserve 20-30 gb, until I figure out what goes well together. I use a lot of packages from KDE, Gnome, and third-party repositories; although I waited until I got my current system stable before I installed these, so they were not the problem.
Once I get everything stable, then I usually customize my system quite a bit; and I also reduce the size of my root partition. For ten years I ran Kubuntu Hardy 8.04 on a separate partition, and it ran without a hitch. TDE looks almost the same, but changing over from one to the other was not exactly seamless.
If I always had an extra computer for experimentation, and unlimited time to explore the wonders of Linux, and no pressing deadlines or commitments, or a life outside my computer, then I would probably have sorted out these issues long ago.
Also, I used to have an entire room of my home filled with nothing but computers and computer parts, with five or six computers always up and running, most of them connected to the network and on the Internet. But now I have been trying to do the same work using only one computer; and now, with a spare laptop, with two computers.
At present, I have no complaints. I always assume that it is my responsibility to improve my own computer skills; but everybody geeks for fun. Now that I've got my Debian system running pretty much like my old KDE3, I am starting to question and analyze what were the obstacles to an easier transition.
My crazy idea is that if talk about some of these issues, we might come up with some solutions that work for relative n00bs (who know even less than myself), and which will ensure the long life of the TDE project. And by the way, not everybody "out there" takes a favorable view of TDE; for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/11gf0d/the_problem_with_trinity_desk... (with lots of snarky comments) and more here: https://www.reddit.com/search?q=Trinity+desktop&restrict_sr=&sort=re... I want to see TDE survive and improve. If not for TDE, my inclination would be to move to a cave up in the mountains, then build my own operating system and desktop using stone tools.
I don't think it's the fault of the devs, etc.; I think it has more to do with the internal politics of the Linux communities. But that's another thread. But I think maybe the way forward is to get TDE into the regular repositories, rather than to sit at the children's table.
Bill
Brian Durant wrote:
Here is my personal check list to make sure that useful items get added to a minimal install:
$ sudo apt-get install clipit axel aria2 aspell-da audacity ripperx xarchiver desktop-base clipit cups gtkorphan gdebi pulseaudio pavucontrol pepperflash wicd synaptic xcfa xorg
Ok, but this is according your preferences. From what you have listed I need to post-install only pavucontrol. The rest is pulled via the dependencies.
I must admit I have never installed some kind of desktop before installing TDE.
regards
On Monday 19 February 2018 10:03:11 deloptes wrote:
Brian Durant wrote:
Here is my personal check list to make sure that useful items get added to a minimal install:
$ sudo apt-get install clipit axel aria2 aspell-da audacity ripperx xarchiver desktop-base clipit cups gtkorphan gdebi pulseaudio pavucontrol pepperflash wicd synaptic xcfa xorg
Ok, but this is according your preferences. From what you have listed I need to post-install only pavucontrol. The rest is pulled via the dependencies.
I must admit I have never installed some kind of desktop before installing TDE.
regards
Ultra-minimalist installation! Yes, I believe that this is the true path: don't install other DEs; use TDE exclusively.
My problem, though, has been that I need to have some kind of working system, with a usable DE; then I can fiddle with experimental configurations on the side. I used to have a partition with a stable, working OS, usually running KDE3 or TDE, when possible, while on a separate partition I would experiment and learn.
Now that somebody gave me an old laptop (Sony Vaio), I can try to create a system that runs only TDE from the start. But then you must start out running everything from a shell, am I right? because you don't yet have TDE installed? Sort of like Puppy Linux or one of those distros?
My other trick has been to save all the downloaded pkgs, figure out which ones play well together, save them somewhere in some kind of order, then run sudo dpkg -i -E -G /media/<wherever>/*.deb After that, I just run sudo torify apt-get -f install to correct any missing dependencies; and of course add those pkgs to the pool of working pkgs.
Bill
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William Morder composed on 2018-02-19 10:53 (UTC-0800):
Now that somebody gave me an old laptop (Sony Vaio), I can try to create a system that runs only TDE from the start. But then you must start out running everything from a shell, am I right? because you don't yet have TDE installed?
How hard is it to run one little script? e.g. Fedora:
#!/bin/sh dnf install https://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm https://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-$(r... -E %fedora).noarch.rpm rpm -Uvh http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity/rpm/f27/trinity-r14/RPM... dnf install trinity-tdebase trinity-kcalc trinity-kmix trinity-ksnapshot trinity-tdm systemctl enable tdm.service reboot
On Monday 19 February 2018 11:18:49 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-02-19 10:53 (UTC-0800):
Now that somebody gave me an old laptop (Sony Vaio), I can try to create a system that runs only TDE from the start. But then you must start out running everything from a shell, am I right? because you don't yet have TDE installed?
How hard is it to run one little script? e.g. Fedora:
#!/bin/sh dnf install https://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm https://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-$( rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm rpm -Uvh http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity/rpm/f27/trinity-r14/RP MS/noarch/trinity-repo-14.0.4-1.fc27.noarch.rpm dnf install trinity-tdebase trinity-kcalc trinity-kmix trinity-ksnapshot trinity-tdm systemctl enable tdm.service reboot
Not hard at all, if one knows the script. But I don't run Redhat, so I would have to adapt it to Debian.
It seems to me that there are many more people out there who would like to run a Linux system with TDE, but they cannot find this sort of information. This is why I've started this thread. Maybe we can create some pages somewhere and post this kind of information.
Bill
William Morder composed on 2018-02-19 12:53 (UTC-0800):
Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-02-19 10:53 (UTC-0800):
Now that somebody gave me an old laptop (Sony Vaio), I can try to create a system that runs only TDE from the start. But then you must start out running everything from a shell, am I right? because you don't yet have TDE installed?
How hard is it to run one little script? e.g. Fedora:
#!/bin/sh dnf install https://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm https://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-$( rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm rpm -Uvh http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity/rpm/f27/trinity-r14/RP MS/noarch/trinity-repo-14.0.4-1.fc27.noarch.rpm dnf install trinity-tdebase trinity-kcalc trinity-kmix trinity-ksnapshot trinity-tdm systemctl enable tdm.service reboot
Not hard at all, if one knows the script. But I don't run Redhat, so I would have to adapt it to Debian.
I only bother with the script with Fedora because its dependence on rpmfusion is much too complicated to remember. With any other distro, adding TDE from the shell is just plain simple, essentially following the instrucions on https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Debian_Trinity_Repository_Installation_Instr...
1:add the two repo lines to /etc/apt/sources.list with mc's internal editor 2:import the gpg key 3:apt update 4:apt install either tde-trinity to get everything, or a desired subset, such as the five packages you see in my fedora script above. 5:reboot
It seems to me that there are many more people out there who would like to run a Linux system with TDE, but they cannot find this sort of information. This is why I've started this thread. Maybe we can create some pages somewhere and post this kind of information.
For me, the wiki page above is quite sufficient, once the target distro installation has been completed. The harder part is finding that page in the first place. From https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Trinity_Desktop_Environment it's not obvious to me that
TDE Documentation
following
Main page and Recent changes
is how to eventually find it. The left column on that page needs to be wider so that the link is not split over two lines when its font is forced to a legible size.
Probably https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Tips_And_Tricks could stand to include a writeup or a link to another page that outlines how to do a minimal Debian installation in preparation to add and run only TDE, unless there is one somewhere already that I just haven't seen.
FWIW, this is how I create a "new" Debian installation:
title Install Debian via HTTP kernel (hd0,0)/debian/linux showopts vga=791 --- netcfg/get_hostname=myhost netcfg/disable_dhcp=true tasks=standard base-installer/install-recommends=false splash=0 initrd (hd0,0)/debian/initrd.gz
What that means is I have multiboot machines with Grub at the ready to load any stanza I create. I prep the target / partition for a new installation, save the appropriate installation kernel and initrd from a mirror, then let Grub start the installation process. With Stretch I doubt it takes as much as 30 minutes to be ready to initiate the TDE installation process.
On Monday 19 February 2018 13:49:16 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-02-19 12:53 (UTC-0800):
Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-02-19 10:53 (UTC-0800):
Now that somebody gave me an old laptop (Sony Vaio), I can try to create a system that runs only TDE from the start. But then you must start out running everything from a shell, am I right? because you don't yet have TDE installed?
How hard is it to run one little script? e.g. Fedora:
#!/bin/sh dnf install https://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm https://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release -$( rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm rpm -Uvh http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity/rpm/f27/trinity-r14 /RP MS/noarch/trinity-repo-14.0.4-1.fc27.noarch.rpm dnf install trinity-tdebase trinity-kcalc trinity-kmix trinity-ksnapshot trinity-tdm systemctl enable tdm.service reboot
Not hard at all, if one knows the script. But I don't run Redhat, so I would have to adapt it to Debian.
I only bother with the script with Fedora because its dependence on rpmfusion is much too complicated to remember. With any other distro, adding TDE from the shell is just plain simple, essentially following the instrucions on https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Debian_Trinity_Repository_Installation_Inst ructions
1:add the two repo lines to /etc/apt/sources.list with mc's internal editor 2:import the gpg key 3:apt update 4:apt install either tde-trinity to get everything, or a desired subset, such as the five packages you see in my fedora script above. 5:reboot
Yes, I am familiar with this page. I have it bookmarked, added all the lines to my sources.list (and add new lines as TDE gets updated). I just comment out the lines I don't use, then delete them as I progress through upgrades. The commands for apt-get: that is all I use for downloading and installing pkgs. I don't use synaptic or any of those tools. Otherwise, I use dpkg, if I have saved pkgs; or when my network is down (which happens more often than seems normal where I live).
It seems to me that there are many more people out there who would like to run a Linux system with TDE, but they cannot find this sort of information. This is why I've started this thread. Maybe we can create some pages somewhere and post this kind of information.
For me, the wiki page above is quite sufficient, once the target distro installation has been completed. The harder part is finding that page in the first place. From https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Trinity_Desktop_Environment it's not obvious to me that
TDE Documentation
following
Main page and Recent changes
is how to eventually find it. The left column on that page needs to be wider so that the link is not split over two lines when its font is forced to a legible size.
Yes, the information pages are not easily accessible. Only after you have thoroughly explored the Trinity site do you know where to find things; but that's only because I've bookmarked all the important pages. For somebody who is just starting out, it is like searching in the wilderness, equipped with nothing - not compass, map, flashlight, nor signposts. That's one of those items that I would like to see improved; because, as I've already said, more users for TDE would be of some benefit to all of us ... that is, if we want to keep using TDE into the indefinite future.
Probably https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Tips_And_Tricks could stand to include a writeup or a link to another page that outlines how to do a minimal Debian installation in preparation to add and run only TDE, unless there is one somewhere already that I just haven't seen.
FWIW, this is how I create a "new" Debian installation:
title Install Debian via HTTP kernel (hd0,0)/debian/linux showopts vga=791 --- netcfg/get_hostname=myhost netcfg/disable_dhcp=true tasks=standard base-installer/install-recommends=false splash=0 initrd (hd0,0)/debian/initrd.gz
What that means is I have multiboot machines with Grub at the ready to load any stanza I create. I prep the target / partition for a new installation, save the appropriate installation kernel and initrd from a mirror, then let Grub start the installation process. With Stretch I doubt it takes as much as 30 minutes to be ready to initiate the TDE installation process.
This is a net install? I like that. Thanks for your information.
Bill
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 16:49:16 -0500 Felix Miata mrmazda@earthlink.net wrote:
For me, the wiki page above is quite sufficient, once the target distro installation has been completed. The harder part is finding that page in the first place. From https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Trinity_Desktop_Environment it's not obvious to me that
TDE Documentation
following
Main page and Recent changes
is how to eventually find it. The left column on that page needs to be wider so that the link is not split over two lines when its font is forced to a legible size.
How large a font size do you need for this to be "legible" to you? I'm asking as the person who created the modified skin for the TDE wiki--I assumed that 11pt bold Arial/Libre Sans would be sufficient for most people using a normal-sized screen (that is, not a phone or very small tablet), but if a lot of people are having problems, I might have to see about revising it.
E. Liddell
E. Liddell composed on 2018-02-19 19:15 (UTC-0500):
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 16:49:16 -0500 Felix Miata wrote:
For me, the wiki page above is quite sufficient, once the target distro installation has been completed. The harder part is finding that page in the first place. From https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Trinity_Desktop_Environment it's not obvious to me that
TDE Documentation
following
Main page and Recent changes
is how to eventually find it. The left column on that page needs to be wider so that the link is not split over two lines when its font is forced to a legible size.
How large a font size do you need for this to be "legible" to you? I'm asking as the person who created the modified skin for the TDE wiki--I assumed that 11pt bold Arial/Libre Sans would be sufficient for most people using a normal-sized screen (that is, not a phone or very small tablet), but if a lot of people are having problems, I might have to see about revising it.
11pt physical would be a fine and dandy size in that context, but specifying 11pt in any "current" web browser other than one using the KHTML engine gets you 11px, which can be vastly different from 11pt, depending on screen density. CSS since 2.1 or thereabouts made the px unit exactly equal to the pt unit, making spec-compliant browsers unable to specify accurate physical sizes unless physical screen density is equal to 96 DPI. KHTML (Konq) never complied with this spec, while Gecko browsers do offer a workaround for those willing to write custom rules using its proprietary mozmm unit.
If you s/11pt/.917rem/ in #mw-navigation on screen.css:64 you should get a close approximation of 11pt "physical" size if the near universal default 16px/12pt remains in effect in the browser in use, and if you are using any moderately recent 100% spec-compliant browser (which excludes Konq, which has no rem unit support).
However, as long as you retain the 170px sidebar width, you'll find the same problem with overflow I see here as the user's screen density deviates above 96 DPI. s/170px/10.625rem/ for div#mw-panel in screen.css:590 might be enough to fix the sidebar width, but doing that would undoubtedly create need for other sizing rule adjustments.
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/tdeCSS20180219.gif shows what I see. 11px CSS equates to 30.25% of my browser's default 12pt (20px) size.
On Monday 19 February 2018 17:47:06 Felix Miata wrote:
E. Liddell composed on 2018-02-19 19:15 (UTC-0500):
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 16:49:16 -0500 Felix Miata wrote:
For me, the wiki page above is quite sufficient, once the target distro installation has been completed. The harder part is finding that page in the first place. From https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Trinity_Desktop_Environment it's not obvious to me that
TDE Documentation
following
Main page and Recent changes
is how to eventually find it. The left column on that page needs to be wider so that the link is not split over two lines when its font is forced to a legible size.
How large a font size do you need for this to be "legible" to you? I'm asking as the person who created the modified skin for the TDE wiki--I assumed that 11pt bold Arial/Libre Sans would be sufficient for most people using a normal-sized screen (that is, not a phone or very small tablet), but if a lot of people are having problems, I might have to see about revising it.
11pt physical would be a fine and dandy size in that context, but specifying 11pt in any "current" web browser other than one using the KHTML engine gets you 11px, which can be vastly different from 11pt, depending on screen density. CSS since 2.1 or thereabouts made the px unit exactly equal to the pt unit, making spec-compliant browsers unable to specify accurate physical sizes unless physical screen density is equal to 96 DPI. KHTML (Konq) never complied with this spec, while Gecko browsers do offer a workaround for those willing to write custom rules using its proprietary mozmm unit.
If you s/11pt/.917rem/ in #mw-navigation on screen.css:64 you should get a close approximation of 11pt "physical" size if the near universal default 16px/12pt remains in effect in the browser in use, and if you are using any moderately recent 100% spec-compliant browser (which excludes Konq, which has no rem unit support).
However, as long as you retain the 170px sidebar width, you'll find the same problem with overflow I see here as the user's screen density deviates above 96 DPI. s/170px/10.625rem/ for div#mw-panel in screen.css:590 might be enough to fix the sidebar width, but doing that would undoubtedly create need for other sizing rule adjustments.
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/tdeCSS20180219.gif shows what I see. 11px CSS equates to 30.25% of my browser's default 12pt (20px) size.
I don't care so much about font size; Firefox is my general-purpose torified web browser, and I force my own settings for fonts, colors, etc. on all sites. If I still can read something, I just manually enlarge the text with CTRL-+. And if I want to view a website the way the designers intended, then I use another browser.
However, I do care about the general organization of the Trinity pages, as it's hard for noobies to find their way to what they need. I imagine this is just because the website was started by designers and maintainers, then accumulated other pages rather haphazardly, as new stuff was added. The people who have been hanging round here for years are used to it (and it doesn't really bother me personally); but when I've heard from other people, they are under the impression that nothing is being maintained, and that active development has stopped.
They don't realize that, of course, Trinity is developed and maintained by volunteers. If I can be of some help, by the way, I am open to suggestions; because I really want TDE to stay alive. I've tried many other different DEs, and this is still the best.
Bill
On Monday 19 February 2018 20:47:06 Felix Miata wrote:
E. Liddell composed on 2018-02-19 19:15 (UTC-0500):
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 16:49:16 -0500 Felix Miata wrote:
For me, the wiki page above is quite sufficient, once the target distro installation has been completed. The harder part is finding that page in the first place. From https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Trinity_Desktop_Environment it's not obvious to me that
TDE Documentation
following
Main page and Recent changes
is how to eventually find it. The left column on that page needs to be wider so that the link is not split over two lines when its font is forced to a legible size.
How large a font size do you need for this to be "legible" to you? I'm asking as the person who created the modified skin for the TDE wiki--I assumed that 11pt bold Arial/Libre Sans would be sufficient for most people using a normal-sized screen (that is, not a phone or very small tablet), but if a lot of people are having problems, I might have to see about revising it.
11pt physical would be a fine and dandy size in that context, but specifying 11pt in any "current" web browser other than one using the KHTML engine gets you 11px, which can be vastly different from 11pt, depending on screen density. CSS since 2.1 or thereabouts made the px unit exactly equal to the pt unit, making spec-compliant browsers unable to specify accurate physical sizes unless physical screen density is equal to 96 DPI. KHTML (Konq) never complied with this spec, while Gecko browsers do offer a workaround for those willing to write custom rules using its proprietary mozmm unit.
If you s/11pt/.917rem/ in #mw-navigation on screen.css:64 you should get a close approximation of 11pt "physical" size if the near universal default 16px/12pt remains in effect in the browser in use, and if you are using any moderately recent 100% spec-compliant browser (which excludes Konq, which has no rem unit support).
However, as long as you retain the 170px sidebar width, you'll find the same problem with overflow I see here as the user's screen density deviates above 96 DPI. s/170px/10.625rem/ for div#mw-panel in screen.css:590 might be enough to fix the sidebar width, but doing that would undoubtedly create need for other sizing rule adjustments.
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/tdeCSS20180219.gif shows what I see. 11px CSS equates to 30.25% of my browser's default 12pt (20px) size.
To put that into further perspective, running firefox on wheezy with 1920x1080 screen, I have to hit the ctrl+ 6 times to get it up to a really comfortable reading size on the wiki's front page for these old eyes. It starts out with characters nominally 3/32" tall. Readable if I lean in to bring my trifocals into focus, but not pleasantly so.
On Monday 19 February 2018 20:32:13 Gene Heskett wrote:
On Monday 19 February 2018 20:47:06 Felix Miata wrote:
E. Liddell composed on 2018-02-19 19:15 (UTC-0500):
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 16:49:16 -0500 Felix Miata wrote:
For me, the wiki page above is quite sufficient, once the target distro installation has been completed. The harder part is finding that page in the first place. From https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Trinity_Desktop_Environment it's not obvious to me that
TDE Documentation
following
Main page and Recent changes
is how to eventually find it. The left column on that page needs to be wider so that the link is not split over two lines when its font is forced to a legible size.
How large a font size do you need for this to be "legible" to you? I'm asking as the person who created the modified skin for the TDE wiki--I assumed that 11pt bold Arial/Libre Sans would be sufficient for most people using a normal-sized screen (that is, not a phone or very small tablet), but if a lot of people are having problems, I might have to see about revising it.
11pt physical would be a fine and dandy size in that context, but specifying 11pt in any "current" web browser other than one using the KHTML engine gets you 11px, which can be vastly different from 11pt, depending on screen density. CSS since 2.1 or thereabouts made the px unit exactly equal to the pt unit, making spec-compliant browsers unable to specify accurate physical sizes unless physical screen density is equal to 96 DPI. KHTML (Konq) never complied with this spec, while Gecko browsers do offer a workaround for those willing to write custom rules using its proprietary mozmm unit.
If you s/11pt/.917rem/ in #mw-navigation on screen.css:64 you should get a close approximation of 11pt "physical" size if the near universal default 16px/12pt remains in effect in the browser in use, and if you are using any moderately recent 100% spec-compliant browser (which excludes Konq, which has no rem unit support).
However, as long as you retain the 170px sidebar width, you'll find the same problem with overflow I see here as the user's screen density deviates above 96 DPI. s/170px/10.625rem/ for div#mw-panel in screen.css:590 might be enough to fix the sidebar width, but doing that would undoubtedly create need for other sizing rule adjustments.
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/tdeCSS20180219.gif shows what I see. 11px CSS equates to 30.25% of my browser's default 12pt (20px) size.
To put that into further perspective, running firefox on wheezy with 1920x1080 screen, I have to hit the ctrl+ 6 times to get it up to a really comfortable reading size on the wiki's front page for these old eyes. It starts out with characters nominally 3/32" tall. Readable if I lean in to bring my trifocals into focus, but not pleasantly so.
Ah, yeah ... I feel ya. I've got old eyes, too, and now I need special glasses to work at the computer screen.
For what it's worth ... I set my fonts at 17-15-13 pts, using Georgia for my serif; and make all my screens display either yellow or green font against a dark background - except on those rare occasions when I actually care enough to see what the web designer intended, e.g., when a friend asks me to check out a web page that he or she designed. High-contrast screens make the screen more readable, too; but I imagine that you've already tried that.
Television and computer screens keep getting bigger, but it seems that the fonts keep getting smaller.
Bill
William Morder composed on 2018-02-20 00:47 (UTC-0800):
Television and computer screens keep getting bigger, but it seems that the fonts keep getting smaller.
It's not hard to understand. The vast majority designers are copycats with good or better eyesight. They use templates or otherwise copy what has been copied before.
Screen quality goes up by increasing physical pixel density. To compensate for the physically smaller pixels that equate to higher density, designers buy progressively bigger desktop screens, and keep on copying what they were copying. For the rest of the world, without unlimited funds to keep buying tax-deductible bigger screens or unable to handle bigger, heavier laptops to compensate, fonts shrink.
Astute designers, of which very few apparently exist, size using units that adjust to user settings and take density into account. That means using the various relative sizing units (not using px or their pt equivalent), rather than the contortions and distortions produced by scripts that aim to "respond" (in arbitrary fashion, using px units) to various px values probed for.
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 20:47:06 -0500 Felix Miata mrmazda@earthlink.net wrote:
E. Liddell composed on 2018-02-19 19:15 (UTC-0500):
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 16:49:16 -0500 Felix Miata wrote:
For me, the wiki page above is quite sufficient, once the target distro installation has been completed. The harder part is finding that page in the first place. From https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Trinity_Desktop_Environment it's not obvious to me that
TDE Documentation
following
Main page and Recent changes
is how to eventually find it. The left column on that page needs to be wider so that the link is not split over two lines when its font is forced to a legible size.
How large a font size do you need for this to be "legible" to you? I'm asking as the person who created the modified skin for the TDE wiki--I assumed that 11pt bold Arial/Libre Sans would be sufficient for most people using a normal-sized screen (that is, not a phone or very small tablet), but if a lot of people are having problems, I might have to see about revising it.
11pt physical would be a fine and dandy size in that context, but specifying 11pt in any "current" web browser other than one using the KHTML engine gets you 11px, which can be vastly different from 11pt, depending on screen density. CSS since 2.1 or thereabouts made the px unit exactly equal to the pt unit, making spec-compliant browsers unable to specify accurate physical sizes unless physical screen density is equal to 96 DPI. KHTML (Konq) never complied with this spec, while Gecko browsers do offer a workaround for those willing to write custom rules using its proprietary mozmm unit.
If you s/11pt/.917rem/ in #mw-navigation on screen.css:64 you should get a close approximation of 11pt "physical" size if the near universal default 16px/12pt remains in effect in the browser in use, and if you are using any moderately recent 100% spec-compliant browser (which excludes Konq, which has no rem unit support).
However, as long as you retain the 170px sidebar width, you'll find the same problem with overflow I see here as the user's screen density deviates above 96 DPI. s/170px/10.625rem/ for div#mw-panel in screen.css:590 might be enough to fix the sidebar width, but doing that would undoubtedly create need for other sizing rule adjustments.
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/tdeCSS20180219.gif shows what I see. 11px CSS equates to 30.25% of my browser's default 12pt (20px) size.
Ah, okay, I begin to see the problem. At the time the website and various wiki and Bugzilla skins were created, HiDPI screens weren't available except on a few very expensive Macbooks, so there *was* an implicit assumption of ~96 DPI (and that's still the only type of screen I have to test on).
I'll try to scrape together enough round tuits to re-examine the design, but making changes live will probably require Tim to do the final upload, so between the two of us, it may be rather a long time before results are visible.
E. Liddell
On Tuesday 20 February 2018 13.31:28 E. Liddell wrote:
Ah, okay, I begin to see the problem. At the time the website and various wiki and Bugzilla skins were created, HiDPI screens weren't available except on a few very expensive Macbooks, so there *was* an implicit assumption of ~96 DPI (and that's still the only type of screen I have to test on).
I'll try to scrape together enough round tuits to re-examine the design, but making changes live will probably require Tim to do the final upload, so between the two of us, it may be rather a long time before results are visible.
E. Liddell
That's a problem TDE will have to address too, globaly. I've had a (short) encounter with an HiDPI screen (which is another example of basic stupidity, as HiDPI may be nice for video, maybe gaming, but is totaly useless for work) and TDE was really a pain, because it was designed in a time where such resolutions did not exist and is bitmap based.
Windows 10 adapts well, even Gnome 3 can more or less cope with it.
So I's say either we provide good bitmaps for HiDPI (I'd be happy to help there), or we turn to scalable elements (seems quite a rewrite), or in the end TDE disappears, because new laptops all come with HiDPI, even cheap chinese ones.
Why is another question - the screen in front of me is a 27" , 1920x1080 one and I can't see any reason for changing it.
Thierry
Thierry de Coulon composed on 2018-02-20 13:43 (UTC+0100):
Why is another question - the screen in front of me is a 27" , 1920x1080 one and I can't see any reason for changing it.
That's 81.6 DPI, roughly equivalent to a '17"' CRT running 1024x768, and pretty crude unless you back away from it quite a bit. DE's and web browsers typically floor at 96 logical DPI.
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 13:43:19 +0100 Thierry de Coulon tcoulon@decoulon.ch wrote:
That's a problem TDE will have to address too, globaly. I've had a (short) encounter with an HiDPI screen (which is another example of basic stupidity, as HiDPI may be nice for video, maybe gaming, but is totaly useless for work) and TDE was really a pain, because it was designed in a time where such resolutions did not exist and is bitmap based.
Windows 10 adapts well, even Gnome 3 can more or less cope with it.
So I's say either we provide good bitmaps for HiDPI (I'd be happy to help there), or we turn to scalable elements (seems quite a rewrite), or in the end TDE disappears, because new laptops all come with HiDPI, even cheap chinese ones.
TDE already has SVG support for some things, but it may need to be extended into additional parts of the UI (lacking a HiDPI screen to test, I can't say exactly where those would be, though). Other than that, the main things needed would be better support for font scaling, and at least one window manager theme and widget set designed to flex without looking utterly ugly. I think.
I'm starting to think I should be looking for a HiDPI screen I can stick on the Raspberry Pi cluttering the shelf above my desk, so that I can at least float a sane minimal proposal . . .
Why is another question - the screen in front of me is a 27" , 1920x1080 one and I can't see any reason for changing it.
Two reasons that I can think of: talking points for marketing, and economies of scale in production. Nothing to do with end users, in other words.
E. Liddell
On Tuesday 20 February 2018 05:46:06 E. Liddell wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 13:43:19 +0100
Thierry de Coulon tcoulon@decoulon.ch wrote:
That's a problem TDE will have to address too, globaly. I've had a (short) encounter with an HiDPI screen (which is another example of basic stupidity, as HiDPI may be nice for video, maybe gaming, but is totaly useless for work) and TDE was really a pain, because it was designed in a time where such resolutions did not exist and is bitmap based.
Windows 10 adapts well, even Gnome 3 can more or less cope with it.
So I's say either we provide good bitmaps for HiDPI (I'd be happy to help there), or we turn to scalable elements (seems quite a rewrite), or in the end TDE disappears, because new laptops all come with HiDPI, even cheap chinese ones.
TDE already has SVG support for some things, but it may need to be extended into additional parts of the UI (lacking a HiDPI screen to test, I can't say exactly where those would be, though). Other than that, the main things needed would be better support for font scaling, and at least one window manager theme and widget set designed to flex without looking utterly ugly. I think.
I'm starting to think I should be looking for a HiDPI screen I can stick on the Raspberry Pi cluttering the shelf above my desk, so that I can at least float a sane minimal proposal . . .
Why is another question - the screen in front of me is a 27" , 1920x1080 one and I can't see any reason for changing it.
Two reasons that I can think of: talking points for marketing, and economies of scale in production. Nothing to do with end users, in other words.
E. Liddell
And most designers of such screens (and other digital toys) are usually 20-30-somethings who cannot imagine life beyond the age of 35 or 40, and see no reason to take into account older users whose eyesight is getting progressively worse.
Of course, to be fair to all sides, I suppose that there is no way of anticipating all these issues. I never thought much about bad eyesight until it started happening to me.
Bill
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On 2018-02-20 08:33:11 William Morder wrote:
On Tuesday 20 February 2018 05:46:06 E. Liddell wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 13:43:19 +0100
Thierry de Coulon tcoulon@decoulon.ch wrote:
That's a problem TDE will have to address too, globaly. I've had a (short) encounter with an HiDPI screen (which is another example of basic stupidity, as HiDPI may be nice for video, maybe gaming, but is totaly useless for work) and TDE was really a pain, because it was designed in a time where such resolutions did not exist and is bitmap based.
Windows 10 adapts well, even Gnome 3 can more or less cope with it.
So I's say either we provide good bitmaps for HiDPI (I'd be happy to help there), or we turn to scalable elements (seems quite a rewrite), or in the end TDE disappears, because new laptops all come with HiDPI, even cheap chinese ones.
TDE already has SVG support for some things, but it may need to be extended into additional parts of the UI (lacking a HiDPI screen to test, I can't say exactly where those would be, though). Other than that, the main things needed would be better support for font scaling, and at least one window manager theme and widget set designed to flex without looking utterly ugly. I think.
I'm starting to think I should be looking for a HiDPI screen I can stick on the Raspberry Pi cluttering the shelf above my desk, so that I can at least float a sane minimal proposal . . .
Why is another question - the screen in front of me is a 27" , 1920x1080 one and I can't see any reason for changing it.
Two reasons that I can think of: talking points for marketing, and economies of scale in production. Nothing to do with end users, in other words.
E. Liddell
And most designers of such screens (and other digital toys) are usually 20-30-somethings who cannot imagine life beyond the age of 35 or 40, and see no reason to take into account older users whose eyesight is getting progressively worse.
Which also explains why developers have (seemingly unanimously) adopted pastel themes, which make it so hard to distinguish different icons.
Of course, to be fair to all sides, I suppose that there is no way of anticipating all these issues. I never thought much about bad eyesight until it started happening to me.
Bill
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On 2018-02-19 19:53, William Morder wrote:
On Monday 19 February 2018 10:03:11 deloptes wrote:
Brian Durant wrote:
Here is my personal check list to make sure that useful items get added to a minimal install:
$ sudo apt-get install clipit axel aria2 aspell-da audacity ripperx xarchiver desktop-base clipit cups gtkorphan gdebi pulseaudio pavucontrol pepperflash wicd synaptic xcfa xorg
Ok, but this is according your preferences. From what you have listed I need to post-install only pavucontrol. The rest is pulled via the dependencies.
I must admit I have never installed some kind of desktop before installing TDE.
regards
(...) But then you must start out running everything from a shell, am I right? because you don't yet have TDE installed? Sort of like Puppy Linux or one of those distros? (...)
Bill
The best thing to do with Devuan is to use a graphic expert install. The only time you need to use the terminal is basically first run, where you edit the /etc/apt/sources.list (commenting out the "CD" and adding the trinity repositories). Then you run "sudo su apt-get update" and "# apt-get install <your additional software packages>. Assuming that you use sudo like I do, rather than root. Restart and you are off and running.
Brian
Brian Durant wrote:
The best thing to do with Devuan is to use a graphic expert install. The only time you need to use the terminal is basically first run, where you edit the /etc/apt/sources.list (commenting out the "CD" and adding the trinity repositories). Then you run "sudo su apt-get update" and "# apt-get install <your additional software packages>. Assuming that you use sudo like I do, rather than root. Restart and you are off and running.
+1
it is not that hard if you know how to work on the console, but for a person who does not know how to edit a file with vim, it might be a big challange
Wasn't there a live CD of TDE?
regards
On 02/19/2018 12:13 PM, deloptes wrote:
it is not that hard if you know how to work on the console, but for a person who does not know how to edit a file with vim, it might be a big challange
I use pico editor. It's much easier for a beginner, and has on-screen help.
Looks like nano, except nano has pretty colors :-)
nano is installed by default by Debian, pico package is alpine-pico
Greg
On Monday 19 February 2018 11:32:53 am Dan Youngquist wrote:
On 02/19/2018 12:13 PM, deloptes wrote:
it is not that hard if you know how to work on the console, but for a person who does not know how to edit a file with vim, it might be a big challange
I use pico editor. It's much easier for a beginner, and has on-screen help.
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On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 17:15:13 -0900 Greg Madden gomadtroll@gci.net wrote:
Looks like nano, except nano has pretty colors :-)
nano is installed by default by Debian, pico package is alpine-pico
If I recall correctly, pico was originally the editor for the pine mailer, and nano was a clone of it created to avoid licensing issues. And yes, for the casual user who doesn't intend to immerse him- or herself in a command-line editor, nano is superior to either vi or emacs.
E. Liddell
E. Liddell wrote:
If I recall correctly, pico was originally the editor for the pine mailer, and nano was a clone of it created to avoid licensing issues. And yes, for the casual user who doesn't intend to immerse him- or herself in a command-line editor, nano is superior to either vi or emacs.
Regarding editors
If you have not heard of, there is "ne", which is my favorite command line editor - unfortunately is not installed by default in debian and is not available on other distros. It is however impressive. I can recommend
On Tuesday 20 February 2018 10:05:51 deloptes wrote:
E. Liddell wrote:
If I recall correctly, pico was originally the editor for the pine mailer, and nano was a clone of it created to avoid licensing issues. And yes, for the casual user who doesn't intend to immerse him- or herself in a command-line editor, nano is superior to either vi or emacs.
Regarding editors
If you have not heard of, there is "ne", which is my favorite command line editor - unfortunately is not installed by default in debian and is not available on other distros. It is however impressive. I can recommend
Thanks much, will check that out.
Bill
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William Morder composed on 2018-02-20 11:58 (UTC-0800):
If I recall correctly, pico was originally the editor for the pine mailer, and nano was a clone of it created to avoid licensing issues. And yes, for the casual user who doesn't intend to immerse him- or herself in a command-line editor, nano is superior to either vi or emacs.
Regarding editors
If you have not heard of, there is "ne", which is my favorite command line editor - unfortunately is not installed by default in debian and is not available on other distros. It is however impressive. I can recommend
Thanks much, will check that out.
Not counting sed and email, the editors I use 99.8%+ of my time on Linux are those built into OFMs, which for me are Midnight Commander and FileCommander/L. ~.01% or less of the time that no OFM is or can be made available, I use Nano. Usually if MC isn't installed I try installing it first before trying any fallback. MC in Konsole is one of the bits that hooked me on KDE back around the turn of the century.
On 2018-02-20 12:05:51 you wrote:
Regarding editors
If you have not heard of, there is "ne", which is my favorite command line editor - unfortunately is not installed by default in debian and is not available on other distros. It is however impressive. I can recommend
This looks like a very nice editor. I'm currently using X2 - The Programmer's Editor, but X2 is closed source, (it's a clone of the OS/2 text editor), and its support has fallen off badly recently; also, the Unix version has a lot of niusance glitches. Thank you very much for pointing this out.
Leslie Turriff composed on 2018-02-22 23:28 (UTC-0600):
I'm currently using X2 - The Programmer's Editor, but X2 is closed source, (it's a clone of the OS/2 text editor), and its support has fallen off badly recently; also, the Unix version has a lot of niusance glitches. Thank you very much for pointing this out.
And thank you! OS/2's editor is the only GUI editor I ever liked.
On openSUSE 42.3 KDE3, its installed size is 65KB, but required 3.5MB of previously unneeded deps. :-p
On Monday 19 of February 2018 21:13:08 deloptes wrote:
Brian Durant wrote:
The best thing to do with Devuan is to use a graphic expert install. The only time you need to use the terminal is basically first run, where you edit the /etc/apt/sources.list (commenting out the "CD" and adding the trinity repositories). Then you run "sudo su apt-get update" and "# apt-get install <your additional software packages>. Assuming that you use sudo like I do, rather than root. Restart and you are off and running.
+1
it is not that hard if you know how to work on the console, but for a person who does not know how to edit a file with vim, it might be a big challange
Wasn't there a live CD of TDE?
regards
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/LiveCDs
Cheers
On Monday 19 February 2018 12:51:19 Slávek Banko wrote:
On Monday 19 of February 2018 21:13:08 deloptes wrote:
Brian Durant wrote:
The best thing to do with Devuan is to use a graphic expert install. The only time you need to use the terminal is basically first run, where you edit the /etc/apt/sources.list (commenting out the "CD" and adding the trinity repositories). Then you run "sudo su apt-get update" and "# apt-get install <your additional software packages>. Assuming that you use sudo like I do, rather than root. Restart and you are off and running.
+1
it is not that hard if you know how to work on the console, but for a person who does not know how to edit a file with vim, it might be a big challange
Wasn't there a live CD of TDE?
regards
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/LiveCDs
Cheers
Yes, thanks Slavek! I am a great admirer of your work. However, I've tried most of the live CDs (at least, the 'buntus & Debian):
From the list on that page, I've tried: Exe Gnu/Linux PCLinuxOS (external) PCLinuxOS (internal) Q4OS Slax with Trinity Ubuntu Nightly Ubuntu Releases Ubuntu (thirdparty) I tried every Ubuntu TDE release from 10.04 through 16.04.
14.04 and 16.04 worked pretty well, but I still ended up having problems. (System freezes up, or network problems, or sudden crashes ... the list is long, but my method is to get rid of non-TDE stuff, or to disable some configurations in KDE, Gnome, etc.) I described this in more detail in other messages.
They got better and better, but thus far do not work as well as my taking the scenic route when installing Debian and then TDE.
Bill
On Monday 19 February 2018 12:13:08 deloptes wrote:
Brian Durant wrote:
The best thing to do with Devuan is to use a graphic expert install. The only time you need to use the terminal is basically first run, where you edit the /etc/apt/sources.list (commenting out the "CD" and adding the trinity repositories). Then you run "sudo su apt-get update" and "# apt-get install <your additional software packages>. Assuming that you use sudo like I do, rather than root. Restart and you are off and running.
+1
it is not that hard if you know how to work on the console, but for a person who does not know how to edit a file with vim, it might be a big challange
Wasn't there a live CD of TDE?
regards
I sometimes live in my console. I breathe through my ears.
But also I know well enough that I am not really a hacker, nor even a geek; and that there are many other people out there who know far less than I, and need a trail of bread crumbs to show them the way.
Bill
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On Monday 19 February 2018 11:35:42 Brian Durant wrote:
On 2018-02-19 19:53, William Morder wrote:
On Monday 19 February 2018 10:03:11 deloptes wrote:
Brian Durant wrote:
Here is my personal check list to make sure that useful items get added to a minimal install:
$ sudo apt-get install clipit axel aria2 aspell-da audacity ripperx xarchiver desktop-base clipit cups gtkorphan gdebi pulseaudio pavucontrol pepperflash wicd synaptic xcfa xorg
Ok, but this is according your preferences. From what you have listed I need to post-install only pavucontrol. The rest is pulled via the dependencies.
I must admit I have never installed some kind of desktop before installing TDE.
regards
(...) But then you must start out running everything from a shell, am I right? because you don't yet have TDE installed? Sort of like Puppy Linux or one of those distros? (...)
Bill
The best thing to do with Devuan is to use a graphic expert install. The only time you need to use the terminal is basically first run, where you edit the /etc/apt/sources.list (commenting out the "CD" and adding the trinity repositories). Then you run "sudo su apt-get update" and "# apt-get install <your additional software packages>. Assuming that you use sudo like I do, rather than root. Restart and you are off and running.
Brian
Yes, thanks. That is clear and straightforward.
As I said in answer to Felix Miata's comment, I would like to see this information posted somewhere, either on Trinity's site, or on user pages, forums, whatever. (Although I suppose the Devuan question isn't really specific to Trinity, we could still link to such information.)
Bill
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