17 Aug
2018
17 Aug
'18
4:34 p.m.
I stumbled across this from the TDE, Devuan Wiki page, and unfortunately I
don’t have enough knowledge of Debian to know what a proper fix, or
additional wording for a clarification, for these would be.
Ref: https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/DebianInstall
Section: 4.1 Fresh R14.0.x installation
lists TDE v3.5.13.2 instructions…
(I can’t really tell, but I think a header got left out?)
Section: 4.2 Upgrading from an existing R14.0.x or
v3.5.13.x installation
has the command, “sudo aptitude full-upgrade”
Per Googling, “full-upgrade is the former dist-upgrade”
Per, https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.apt-get.html
“such as the change from one major Debian version to the next, you need to use
apt full-upgrade”
Whatever the correct instructions are, is being forced to upgrade from
say ‘7.x - wheezy’ to ‘9.x - stretch’ accurate? But, that does seem to
directly conflict with the information presented in “1.1 R14.0.x series,”
which implies I can stay on ‘7.x - wheezy’ and install R14x.
# # #
Would someone add some additional appropriate information to that page? And
if the distribution upgrade is a requirement, also add some really ‘bold’
warnings?
Best,
Michael
17 Aug
17 Aug
7:18 p.m.
Michael wrote:
Whatever the correct instructions are, is being forced
to upgrade from
say ‘7.x - wheezy’ to ‘9.x - stretch’ accurate? But, that does seem to
directly conflict with the information presented in “1.1 R14.0.x series,”
which implies I can stay on ‘7.x - wheezy’ and install R14x.
Hi,
you can use TDE 14.X with whatever underlaying linux distribution. The
condition is that tde should be compiled against the packages/libraries of
this distribution.
So watch out to add the correct sources to the source lists.
As far as upgrade is concerned in debian it is not safe to skip a version -
example wheezy -> stretch is risky and not recommended. What debian
recommends is wheezy -> jessie -> stretch.
Whatever you do - the TDE source list should match the distro version.
I hope it helps
regards
PS: regarding changing wiki - if you don't want or don't have permissions to
do it, provide detailed instruction what you think needs to be changed.
I couldn't understand exactly what you mean at first reading.
18 Aug
18 Aug
4:29 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: TDE, Debian Install Wiki page (unclear/errors?)
On Friday 17 August 2018 02:18:41 pm deloptes wrote:
Michael wrote:
Hi Del,
I can change the wiki, I don't know what to change it to ;)
My background is 95% CentOS with 5% Ubuntu 14.04 as a test of a 'more
convenient' working environment.
Based upon what you've said, then yes there is a serious problem with the
Debian wiki page as the instructions as given (AKAIU) are going to upgrade
their distribution instead of just upgrading their TDE version.
This section from the Debian Aptitude instruction page, also explicitly states
not to use 'full-upgrade,' so again the instructions on TDE Debian Wiki are
almost guaranteed to be 'wrong.'
https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude
How to upgrade your distribution
Upgrading from one stable release to the next (e.g. Lenny to Squeeze) is done
by following the release notes for your architecture. For most people with 32
bit systems that means the Release Notes for Intel x86. For most with 64 bit
systems that means the Release Notes for AMD64.
Using full-upgrade in the regular course of events is no longer the
recommended practice (unless you are running sid, in which case you should
not need to be reading this.)
Minor release upgrades (e.g. from lenny 5.0.1 to 5.0.2) and security updates
are done with safe-upgrade.
Find out the current version of Debian that you are running:
$ cat /etc/debian_version
Example for upgrading from, e.g., etch 4.0r1 to 4.0r2 ...etc., or applying
security upgrades:
# aptitude update
# aptitude safe-upgrade
Looking at the Ubuntu page, the same 'error' has been published:
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Ubuntu_Trinity_Repository_Installation_Inst…
6.2 Upgrading from an existing R14.0.x or v3.5.13.x installation
sudo aptitude full-upgrade
# # # # #
At my level of 'aptitude' knowledge, I can tell the instructions as given are
almost guaranteed to be erroneous, and very liable to cause some serious ill
will, but what the correct instructions for 'aptitude' systems should be is
beyond me. Therefore:
Would someone go 'fix' all the TDE 'aptitude' Wiki pages?
Or, if the TDE instructions as given are correct, then explain the
discrepancies with published 'aptitude' sources?
Best and Thanks,
Michael
Whatever the correct instructions are, is being
forced to upgrade from
say ‘7.x - wheezy’ to ‘9.x - stretch’ accurate? But, that does seem to
directly conflict with the information presented in “1.1 R14.0.x series,”
which implies I can stay on ‘7.x - wheezy’ and install R14x.
Hi,
you can use TDE 14.X with whatever underlaying linux distribution. The
condition is that tde should be compiled against the packages/libraries of
this distribution.
So watch out to add the correct sources to the source lists.
As far as upgrade is concerned in debian it is not safe to skip a version -
example wheezy -> stretch is risky and not recommended. What debian
recommends is wheezy -> jessie -> stretch.
Whatever you do - the TDE source list should match the distro version.
I hope it helps
regards
PS: regarding changing wiki - if you don't want or don't have permissions
to do it, provide detailed instruction what you think needs to be changed.
I couldn't understand exactly what you mean at first reading. 
5:27 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: TDE, Debian Install Wiki page (unclear/errors?)
On Saturday 18 of August 2018 18:29:52 Michael wrote:
On Friday 17 August 2018 02:18:41 pm deloptes wrote:
Your information here looks very confusing.
Using aptitude full-upgrade does not mean that it cause update from one
version of distribution to another. Using aptitude full-upgrade certainly
does not mean that it would cause that Debian 7.x will be updated to
Debian 9.x. It always depends on what version is listed in sources.list!
If wheezy is listed in source.list then aptitude full-upgrade will only
update packages within Debian 7.x. No Debian 9.x package comes on board.
You must have your sources.list in order. For example, you can not use
TDE packages for Stretch if your distribution is Wheezy.
The use of aptitude full-upgrade is quite right here, because in the case
of update from TDE 3.5.13.x to TDE R14.0.x, there is a great change to
the version and installation of many new packages. For this case,
aptitude safe-upgrade is unusable.
In case of updating to R14.0.5 from previous R14.0.x here is a new package
tdebase-tdeio-smb-trinity, which will be separated from package
tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity. That's why it's good to use aptitude
full-upgrade for upgrade to R14.0.5.
That's why I do not see anything wrong with the instructions on the Wiki.
Using aptitude full-upgrade is definitely not an error. On the contrary,
sometimes it is necessary. The warnings placed on the wiki therefore seem
to me very confusing and wrong.
Cheers
--
Slávek
Michael wrote:
Hi Del,
I can change the wiki, I don't know what to change it to ;)
My background is 95% CentOS with 5% Ubuntu 14.04 as a test of a 'more
convenient' working environment.
Based upon what you've said, then yes there is a serious problem with
the Debian wiki page as the instructions as given (AKAIU) are going to
upgrade their distribution instead of just upgrading their TDE version.
This section from the Debian Aptitude instruction page, also explicitly
states not to use 'full-upgrade,' so again the instructions on TDE
Debian Wiki are almost guaranteed to be 'wrong.'
https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude
How to upgrade your distribution
Upgrading from one stable release to the next (e.g. Lenny to Squeeze)
is done by following the release notes for your architecture. For most
people with 32 bit systems that means the Release Notes for Intel x86.
For most with 64 bit systems that means the Release Notes for AMD64.
Using full-upgrade in the regular course of events is no longer the
recommended practice (unless you are running sid, in which case you
should not need to be reading this.)
Minor release upgrades (e.g. from lenny 5.0.1 to 5.0.2) and security
updates are done with safe-upgrade.
Find out the current version of Debian that you are running:
$ cat /etc/debian_version
Example for upgrading from, e.g., etch 4.0r1 to 4.0r2 ...etc., or
applying security upgrades:
# aptitude update
# aptitude safe-upgrade
Looking at the Ubuntu page, the same 'error' has been published:
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Ubuntu_Trinity_Repository_Installation_
Instructions 6.2 Upgrading from an existing R14.0.x or v3.5.13.x
installation sudo aptitude full-upgrade
# # # # #
At my level of 'aptitude' knowledge, I can tell the instructions as
given are almost guaranteed to be erroneous, and very liable to cause
some serious ill will, but what the correct instructions for 'aptitude'
systems should be is beyond me. Therefore:
Would someone go 'fix' all the TDE 'aptitude' Wiki pages?
Or, if the TDE instructions as given are correct, then explain the
discrepancies with published 'aptitude' sources?
Best and Thanks,
Michael
Whatever the correct instructions are, is being
forced to upgrade
from say ‘7.x - wheezy’ to ‘9.x - stretch’ accurate? But, that
does seem to directly conflict with the information presented in
“1.1 R14.0.x series,” which implies I can stay on ‘7.x - wheezy’
and install R14x.
Hi,
you can use TDE 14.X with whatever underlaying linux distribution.
The condition is that tde should be compiled against the
packages/libraries of this distribution.
So watch out to add the correct sources to the source lists.
As far as upgrade is concerned in debian it is not safe to skip a
version - example wheezy -> stretch is risky and not recommended.
What debian recommends is wheezy -> jessie -> stretch.
Whatever you do - the TDE source list should match the distro
version.
I hope it helps
regards
PS: regarding changing wiki - if you don't want or don't have
permissions to do it, provide detailed instruction what you think
needs to be changed. I couldn't understand exactly what you mean at
first reading.
19 Aug
19 Aug
2:08 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: TDE, Debian Install Wiki page (unclear/errors?)
On Saturday 18 August 2018 12:27:53 pm Slávek Banko wrote:
On Saturday 18 of August 2018 18:29:52 Michael wrote:
Hi Slávek,
Apologies if my lack of knowledge of aptitude based distributions is hindering
this discussion.
So, let’s see if I can shorten this to just 3 yes/no questions for foundation
clarity...
On Friday 17 August 2018 02:18:41 pm deloptes
wrote:
Your information here looks very confusing.
Using aptitude full-upgrade does not mean that it cause update from one
version of distribution to another. Using aptitude full-upgrade certainly
does not mean that it would cause that Debian 7.x will be updated to
Debian 9.x. It always depends on what version is listed in sources.list!
If wheezy is listed in source.list then aptitude full-upgrade will only
update packages within Debian 7.x. No Debian 9.x package comes on board.
You must have your sources.list in order. For example, you can not use
TDE packages for Stretch if your distribution is Wheezy.
The use of aptitude full-upgrade is quite right here, because in the case
of update from TDE 3.5.13.x to TDE R14.0.x, there is a great change to
the version and installation of many new packages. For this case,
aptitude safe-upgrade is unusable.
In case of updating to R14.0.5 from previous R14.0.x here is a new package
tdebase-tdeio-smb-trinity, which will be separated from package
tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity. That's why it's good to use aptitude
full-upgrade for upgrade to R14.0.5.
That's why I do not see anything wrong with the instructions on the Wiki.
Using aptitude full-upgrade is definitely not an error. On the contrary,
sometimes it is necessary. The warnings placed on the wiki therefore seem
to me very confusing and wrong.
Cheers Michael wrote:
Hi Del,
I can change the wiki, I don't know what to change it to ;)
My background is 95% CentOS with 5% Ubuntu 14.04 as a test of a 'more
convenient' working environment.
Based upon what you've said, then yes there is a serious problem with
the Debian wiki page as the instructions as given (AKAIU) are going to
upgrade their distribution instead of just upgrading their TDE version.
This section from the Debian Aptitude instruction page, also explicitly
states not to use 'full-upgrade,' so again the instructions on TDE
Debian Wiki are almost guaranteed to be 'wrong.'
https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude
How to upgrade your distribution
Upgrading from one stable release to the next (e.g. Lenny to Squeeze)
is done by following the release notes for your architecture. For most
people with 32 bit systems that means the Release Notes for Intel x86.
For most with 64 bit systems that means the Release Notes for AMD64.
Using full-upgrade in the regular course of events is no longer the
recommended practice (unless you are running sid, in which case you
should not need to be reading this.)
Minor release upgrades (e.g. from lenny 5.0.1 to 5.0.2) and security
updates are done with safe-upgrade.
Find out the current version of Debian that you are running:
$ cat /etc/debian_version
Example for upgrading from, e.g., etch 4.0r1 to 4.0r2 ...etc., or
applying security upgrades:
# aptitude update
# aptitude safe-upgrade
Looking at the Ubuntu page, the same 'error' has been published:
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Ubuntu_Trinity_Repository_Installation_
Instructions 6.2 Upgrading from an existing R14.0.x or v3.5.13.x
installation sudo aptitude full-upgrade
# # # # #
At my level of 'aptitude' knowledge, I can tell the instructions as
given are almost guaranteed to be erroneous, and very liable to cause
some serious ill will, but what the correct instructions for 'aptitude'
systems should be is beyond me. Therefore:
Would someone go 'fix' all the TDE 'aptitude' Wiki pages?
Or, if the TDE instructions as given are correct, then explain the
discrepancies with published 'aptitude' sources?
Best and Thanks,
Michael Whatever the correct instructions are, is being
forced to upgrade
from say ‘7.x - wheezy’ to ‘9.x - stretch’ accurate? But, that
does seem to directly conflict with the information presented in
“1.1 R14.0.x series,” which implies I can stay on ‘7.x - wheezy’
and install R14x.
Hi,
you can use TDE 14.X with whatever underlaying linux distribution.
The condition is that tde should be compiled against the
packages/libraries of this distribution.
So watch out to add the correct sources to the source lists.
As far as upgrade is concerned in debian it is not safe to skip a
version - example wheezy -> stretch is risky and not recommended.
What debian recommends is wheezy -> jessie -> stretch.
Whatever you do - the TDE source list should match the distro
version.
I hope it helps
regards
PS: regarding changing wiki - if you don't want or don't have
permissions to do it, provide detailed instruction what you think
needs to be changed. I couldn't understand exactly what you mean at
first reading. Doesn’t full-upgrade upgrade the distribution to the
next major version?
Reference: https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.apt-get.html
“such as the change from one major Debian version to the next, you need to use
apt full-upgrade”
By using “sudo aptitude full-upgrade” for “Upgrading
from an existing
R14.0.x” will it not upgrade both TDE and also distribution
upgrade Ubuntu?
Context:
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Ubuntu_Trinity_Repository_Installation_Inst…
If both answers are yes, then the TDE ‘aptitude’ wiki pages are erroneous as
written. (As they are telling the user to both upgrade TDE and to do a
distribution major version upgrade, when the user may only wish to upgrade
TDE.)
Doesn’t Debian specifically say not to use
full-upgrade for a distribution
upgrade?
Reference: https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude
“Upgrading from one stable release to the next (e.g. Lenny to Squeeze) is done
by following the release notes for your architecture.”
“Using full-upgrade in the regular course of events is no longer the
recommended practice”
Okay, this is a bit contradictory to the prior Debian handbook information,
but if this answer is yes, then again the wiki pages are erroneous as
written. As they should have links to the various distribution release
notes.
# # #
The answers to those 3 questions will give us a mutual foundation for me to
clarify what I’m trying address.
Best,
Michael
PS: If the answers are no, then my entire understanding of dist-upgrade (now
an alias for full-upgrade) seems to be erroneous, as doesn’t the
dist-upgrade/full-upgrade process itself update your source.list to the next
major distribution version so it can do the distribution upgrade?
3:12 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: TDE, Debian Install Wiki page (unclear/errors?)
On Sunday 19 of August 2018 04:08:57 Michael wrote:
On Saturday 18 August 2018 12:27:53 pm Slávek Banko
wrote:
Hi Michael,
1) aptitude full-upgrade (or dist-upgrade) does not make any changes to
sources.list. If you do not make the change yourself, no distribution
version change will be made.
2) The aptitude documentation says that when you change the distribution
version (which must be done by the user itself), it is necessary to use
aptitude full-upgrade. But that does not mean that aptitude full-upgrade
can not be used in other situations.
3) The recommendation to use aptitude full-upgrade on TDE Wiki is
perfectly fine. This will not cause a change of distribution version, but
will provide an easy transition when renaming packages, split packages,
and so on.
Cheers
--
Slávek
On Saturday 18 of August 2018 18:29:52 Michael
wrote:
Hi Slávek,
Apologies if my lack of knowledge of aptitude based distributions is
hindering this discussion.
So, let’s see if I can shorten this to just 3 yes/no questions for
foundation clarity...
On Friday 17 August 2018 02:18:41 pm deloptes
wrote:
Your information here looks very confusing.
Using aptitude full-upgrade does not mean that it cause update from
one version of distribution to another. Using aptitude full-upgrade
certainly does not mean that it would cause that Debian 7.x will be
updated to Debian 9.x. It always depends on what version is listed in
sources.list!
If wheezy is listed in source.list then aptitude full-upgrade will
only update packages within Debian 7.x. No Debian 9.x package comes
on board. You must have your sources.list in order. For example, you
can not use TDE packages for Stretch if your distribution is Wheezy.
The use of aptitude full-upgrade is quite right here, because in the
case of update from TDE 3.5.13.x to TDE R14.0.x, there is a great
change to the version and installation of many new packages. For this
case, aptitude safe-upgrade is unusable.
In case of updating to R14.0.5 from previous R14.0.x here is a new
package tdebase-tdeio-smb-trinity, which will be separated from
package tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity. That's why it's good to use
aptitude full-upgrade for upgrade to R14.0.5.
That's why I do not see anything wrong with the instructions on the
Wiki. Using aptitude full-upgrade is definitely not an error. On the
contrary, sometimes it is necessary. The warnings placed on the wiki
therefore seem to me very confusing and wrong.
Cheers Michael wrote:
> Whatever the correct instructions are, is being forced to
> upgrade from say ‘7.x - wheezy’ to ‘9.x - stretch’ accurate?
> But, that does seem to directly conflict with the information
> presented in “1.1 R14.0.x series,” which implies I can stay on
> ‘7.x - wheezy’ and install R14x.
Hi,
you can use TDE 14.X with whatever underlaying linux
distribution. The condition is that tde should be compiled
against the packages/libraries of this distribution.
So watch out to add the correct sources to the source lists.
As far as upgrade is concerned in debian it is not safe to skip a
version - example wheezy -> stretch is risky and not recommended.
What debian recommends is wheezy -> jessie -> stretch.
Whatever you do - the TDE source list should match the distro
version.
I hope it helps
regards
PS: regarding changing wiki - if you don't want or don't have
permissions to do it, provide detailed instruction what you think
needs to be changed. I couldn't understand exactly what you mean
at first reading.
Hi Del,
I can change the wiki, I don't know what to change it to ;)
My background is 95% CentOS with 5% Ubuntu 14.04 as a test of a
'more convenient' working environment.
Based upon what you've said, then yes there is a serious problem
with the Debian wiki page as the instructions as given (AKAIU) are
going to upgrade their distribution instead of just upgrading their
TDE version.
This section from the Debian Aptitude instruction page, also
explicitly states not to use 'full-upgrade,' so again the
instructions on TDE Debian Wiki are almost guaranteed to be
'wrong.'
https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude
How to upgrade your distribution
Upgrading from one stable release to the next (e.g. Lenny to
Squeeze) is done by following the release notes for your
architecture. For most people with 32 bit systems that means the
Release Notes for Intel x86. For most with 64 bit systems that
means the Release Notes for AMD64.
Using full-upgrade in the regular course of events is no longer the
recommended practice (unless you are running sid, in which case you
should not need to be reading this.)
Minor release upgrades (e.g. from lenny 5.0.1 to 5.0.2) and
security updates are done with safe-upgrade.
Find out the current version of Debian that you are running:
$ cat /etc/debian_version
Example for upgrading from, e.g., etch 4.0r1 to 4.0r2 ...etc., or
applying security upgrades:
# aptitude update
# aptitude safe-upgrade
Looking at the Ubuntu page, the same 'error' has been published:
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Ubuntu_Trinity_Repository_Installat
ion_ Instructions 6.2 Upgrading from an existing R14.0.x or
v3.5.13.x installation sudo aptitude full-upgrade
# # # # #
At my level of 'aptitude' knowledge, I can tell the instructions as
given are almost guaranteed to be erroneous, and very liable to
cause some serious ill will, but what the correct instructions for
'aptitude' systems should be is beyond me. Therefore:
Would someone go 'fix' all the TDE 'aptitude' Wiki pages?
Or, if the TDE instructions as given are correct, then explain the
discrepancies with published 'aptitude' sources?
Best and Thanks,
Michael Doesn’t full-upgrade upgrade the distribution to
the next major
version?
Reference: https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.apt-get.html
“such as the change from one major Debian version to the next, you need
to use apt full-upgrade”
By using “sudo aptitude full-upgrade” for
“Upgrading from an existing
R14.0.x” will it not upgrade both TDE and also distribution upgrade
Ubuntu?
Context:
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Ubuntu_Trinity_Repository_Installation_
Instructions#Upgrading_from_an_existing_R14.0.x_or_v3.5.13.x_installatio
n
If both answers are yes, then the TDE ‘aptitude’ wiki pages are
erroneous as written. (As they are telling the user to both upgrade
TDE and to do a distribution major version upgrade, when the user may
only wish to upgrade TDE.)
Doesn’t Debian specifically say not to use
full-upgrade for a
distribution
upgrade?
Reference: https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude
“Upgrading from one stable release to the next (e.g. Lenny to Squeeze)
is done by following the release notes for your architecture.”
“Using full-upgrade in the regular course of events is no longer the
recommended practice”
Okay, this is a bit contradictory to the prior Debian handbook
information, but if this answer is yes, then again the wiki pages are
erroneous as written. As they should have links to the various
distribution release notes.
# # #
The answers to those 3 questions will give us a mutual foundation for
me to clarify what I’m trying address.
Best,
Michael
PS: If the answers are no, then my entire understanding of
dist-upgrade (now an alias for full-upgrade) seems to be erroneous, as
doesn’t the dist-upgrade/full-upgrade process itself update your
source.list to the next major distribution version so it can do the
distribution upgrade?
6:43 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: TDE, Debian Install Wiki page (unclear/errors?)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Hi Michael,
1) aptitude full-upgrade (or dist-upgrade) does not make any changes to sources.list. If
you do not make the change
yourself, no distribution version change will be made.
2) The aptitude documentation says that when you change the distribution version (which
must be done by the user
itself), it is necessary to use aptitude full-upgrade. But that does not mean that
aptitude full-upgrade can not be
used in other situations.
3) The recommendation to use aptitude full-upgrade on TDE Wiki is perfectly fine. This
will not cause a change of
distribution version, but will provide an easy transition when renaming packages, split
packages, and so on.
Cheers
Hi all,
as explained by Slavek, the instruction on the wiki page are correct.
Therefore I have removed the warning on top of the page.
Cheers
Michele
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9:59 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: TDE, Debian Install Wiki page (unclear/errors?)
On Saturday 18 August 2018 07:12:16 pm Slávek Banko wrote:
On Sunday 19 of August 2018 04:08:57 Michael wrote:
+1
hopefully not adding to any confusion.
"upgrade" upgrades all packages except those that require NEW packages to be
installed to satisfy dependancies..hence the "held back" message.
dist-upgrade or full-upgrade will satisfy all dependancies and install new
packages if required.
but, all work from the sources.list, third party apps, ie. google, manage
their repo in sources.d directory.
greg
On Saturday 18 August 2018 12:27:53 pm Slávek
Banko wrote:
Hi Michael,
1) aptitude full-upgrade (or dist-upgrade) does not make any changes to
sources.list. If you do not make the change yourself, no distribution
version change will be made.
2) The aptitude documentation says that when you change the distribution
version (which must be done by the user itself), it is necessary to use
aptitude full-upgrade. But that does not mean that aptitude full-upgrade
can not be used in other situations.
3) The recommendation to use aptitude full-upgrade on TDE Wiki is
perfectly fine. This will not cause a change of distribution version, but
will provide an easy transition when renaming packages, split packages,
and so on.
Cheers On Saturday 18 of August 2018 18:29:52 Michael
wrote:
Hi Slávek,
Apologies if my lack of knowledge of aptitude based distributions is
hindering this discussion.
So, let’s see if I can shorten this to just 3 yes/no questions for
foundation clarity...
On Friday 17 August 2018 02:18:41 pm deloptes
wrote:
> Michael wrote:
> > Whatever the correct instructions are, is being forced to
> > upgrade from say ‘7.x - wheezy’ to ‘9.x - stretch’ accurate?
> > But, that does seem to directly conflict with the information
> > presented in “1.1 R14.0.x series,” which implies I can stay on
> > ‘7.x - wheezy’ and install R14x.
>
> Hi,
> you can use TDE 14.X with whatever underlaying linux
> distribution. The condition is that tde should be compiled
> against the packages/libraries of this distribution.
> So watch out to add the correct sources to the source lists.
>
> As far as upgrade is concerned in debian it is not safe to skip a
> version - example wheezy -> stretch is risky and not recommended.
> What debian recommends is wheezy -> jessie -> stretch.
>
> Whatever you do - the TDE source list should match the distro
> version.
>
> I hope it helps
>
> regards
>
> PS: regarding changing wiki - if you don't want or don't have
> permissions to do it, provide detailed instruction what you think
> needs to be changed. I couldn't understand exactly what you mean
> at first reading.
Hi Del,
I can change the wiki, I don't know what to change it to ;)
My background is 95% CentOS with 5% Ubuntu 14.04 as a test of a
'more convenient' working environment.
Based upon what you've said, then yes there is a serious problem
with the Debian wiki page as the instructions as given (AKAIU) are
going to upgrade their distribution instead of just upgrading their
TDE version.
This section from the Debian Aptitude instruction page, also
explicitly states not to use 'full-upgrade,' so again the
instructions on TDE Debian Wiki are almost guaranteed to be
'wrong.'
https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude
How to upgrade your distribution
Upgrading from one stable release to the next (e.g. Lenny to
Squeeze) is done by following the release notes for your
architecture. For most people with 32 bit systems that means the
Release Notes for Intel x86. For most with 64 bit systems that
means the Release Notes for AMD64.
Using full-upgrade in the regular course of events is no longer the
recommended practice (unless you are running sid, in which case you
should not need to be reading this.)
Minor release upgrades (e.g. from lenny 5.0.1 to 5.0.2) and
security updates are done with safe-upgrade.
Find out the current version of Debian that you are running:
$ cat /etc/debian_version
Example for upgrading from, e.g., etch 4.0r1 to 4.0r2 ...etc., or
applying security upgrades:
# aptitude update
# aptitude safe-upgrade
Looking at the Ubuntu page, the same 'error' has been published:
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Ubuntu_Trinity_Repository_Installat
ion_ Instructions 6.2 Upgrading from an existing R14.0.x or
v3.5.13.x installation sudo aptitude full-upgrade
# # # # #
At my level of 'aptitude' knowledge, I can tell the instructions as
given are almost guaranteed to be erroneous, and very liable to
cause some serious ill will, but what the correct instructions for
'aptitude' systems should be is beyond me. Therefore:
Would someone go 'fix' all the TDE 'aptitude' Wiki pages?
Or, if the TDE instructions as given are correct, then explain the
discrepancies with published 'aptitude' sources?
Best and Thanks,
Michael
Your information here looks very confusing.
Using aptitude full-upgrade does not mean that it cause update from
one version of distribution to another. Using aptitude full-upgrade
certainly does not mean that it would cause that Debian 7.x will be
updated to Debian 9.x. It always depends on what version is listed in
sources.list!
If wheezy is listed in source.list then aptitude full-upgrade will
only update packages within Debian 7.x. No Debian 9.x package comes
on board. You must have your sources.list in order. For example, you
can not use TDE packages for Stretch if your distribution is Wheezy.
The use of aptitude full-upgrade is quite right here, because in the
case of update from TDE 3.5.13.x to TDE R14.0.x, there is a great
change to the version and installation of many new packages. For this
case, aptitude safe-upgrade is unusable.
In case of updating to R14.0.5 from previous R14.0.x here is a new
package tdebase-tdeio-smb-trinity, which will be separated from
package tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity. That's why it's good to use
aptitude full-upgrade for upgrade to R14.0.5.
That's why I do not see anything wrong with the instructions on the
Wiki. Using aptitude full-upgrade is definitely not an error. On the
contrary, sometimes it is necessary. The warnings placed on the wiki
therefore seem to me very confusing and wrong.
Cheers Doesn’t full-upgrade upgrade the distribution to
the next major
version?
Reference: https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.apt-get.html
“such as the change from one major Debian version to the next, you need
to use apt full-upgrade”
By using “sudo aptitude full-upgrade” for
“Upgrading from an existing
R14.0.x” will it not upgrade both TDE and also distribution upgrade
Ubuntu?
Context:
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Ubuntu_Trinity_Repository_Installation_
Instructions#Upgrading_from_an_existing_R14.0.x_or_v3.5.13.x_installatio
n
If both answers are yes, then the TDE ‘aptitude’ wiki pages are
erroneous as written. (As they are telling the user to both upgrade
TDE and to do a distribution major version upgrade, when the user may
only wish to upgrade TDE.)
Doesn’t Debian specifically say not to use
full-upgrade for a
distribution
upgrade?
Reference: https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude
“Upgrading from one stable release to the next (e.g. Lenny to Squeeze)
is done by following the release notes for your architecture.”
“Using full-upgrade in the regular course of events is no longer the
recommended practice”
Okay, this is a bit contradictory to the prior Debian handbook
information, but if this answer is yes, then again the wiki pages are
erroneous as written. As they should have links to the various
distribution release notes.
# # #
The answers to those 3 questions will give us a mutual foundation for
me to clarify what I’m trying address.
Best,
Michael
PS: If the answers are no, then my entire understanding of
dist-upgrade (now an alias for full-upgrade) seems to be erroneous, as
doesn’t the dist-upgrade/full-upgrade process itself update your
source.list to the next major distribution version so it can do the
distribution upgrade? 
23 Aug
23 Aug
8:53 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: TDE, Debian Install Wiki page (unclear/errors?)
Dear Michael,
Am Sonntag 19 August 2018 schrieb Michael:
PS: If the answers are no, then my entire
understanding of dist-upgrade
(now an alias for full-upgrade) seems to be erroneous, as doesn’t the
dist-upgrade/full-upgrade process itself update your source.list to the
next major distribution version so it can do the distribution upgrade?
Yes, you don't seem to understand the debian package management well enough
here. As has been said, every command with apt, apt-get, aptitude or dpkg
(package management tools) etc. depends on which repositories are indicated
in /etc/apt/sources.list (and others in /etc/sources.list.d/*, maybe).
For example, if you are running Debian wheezy you would have something like:
deb http://ftp.debian.de/pub/linux/debian/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free
in your sources.list. When you now would do a
aptitude dist-upgrade
nothing actually would happen as aptitude would look up the contents of the
repository for wheezy on the given server (and only update its database from
what has been changed *within* the server-side wheezy repo).
When you now change the information in sources.list (or the trinity's
sources.list in /etc/sources.list.d/ -- which technically doesn't matter
because apt etc. look up both) to a new TDE version for wheezy (!) like this,
e.g.:
# before
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-v3.5.13/debian wheezy
main
# after
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian wheezy
main
then apt would get new information for tde packages only and upgrade those while
the information for the distribution's repos in sources.list stays the same and
still nothing but tde packages would be upgraded. (there might be rare
exceptions when packages *within* wheezy had been upgraded to new versions (in
the repo) which would be upgraded as well then).
HTH
Kind regards,
Stefan
10:35 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: TDE, Debian Install Wiki page (unclear/errors?)
I think you are thinking of Ubuntu which uses a command [which I forget off
the top of my head] to change sources and upgrade to the next release.
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 4:57 AM Stefan Krusche <linux(a)stefan-krusche.de>
wrote:
Dear Michael,
Am Sonntag 19 August 2018 schrieb Michael:
PS: If the answers are no, then my entire
understanding of dist-upgrade
(now an alias for full-upgrade) seems to be erroneous, as doesn’t the
dist-upgrade/full-upgrade process itself update your source.list to the
next major distribution version so it can do the distribution upgrade?
Yes, you don't seem to understand the debian package management well
enough
here. As has been said, every command with apt, apt-get, aptitude or dpkg
(package management tools) etc. depends on which repositories are
indicated
in /etc/apt/sources.list (and others in /etc/sources.list.d/*, maybe).
For example, if you are running Debian wheezy you would have something
like:
deb http://ftp.debian.de/pub/linux/debian/debian/ wheezy main contrib
non-free
in your sources.list. When you now would do a
aptitude dist-upgrade
nothing actually would happen as aptitude would look up the contents of
the
repository for wheezy on the given server (and only update its database
from
what has been changed *within* the server-side wheezy repo).
When you now change the information in sources.list (or the trinity's
sources.list in /etc/sources.list.d/ -- which technically doesn't matter
because apt etc. look up both) to a new TDE version for wheezy (!) like
this,
e.g.:
# before
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-v3.5.13/debian
wheezy
main
# after
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian
wheezy
main
then apt would get new information for tde packages only and upgrade those
while
the information for the distribution's repos in sources.list stays the
same and
still nothing but tde packages would be upgraded. (there might be rare
exceptions when packages *within* wheezy had been upgraded to new versions
(in
the repo) which would be upgraded as well then).
HTH
Kind regards,
Stefan
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11:31 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: TDE, Debian Install Wiki page (unclear/errors?)
Am Donnerstag 23 August 2018 schrieb John Pisini:
I think you are thinking of Ubuntu which uses a
command [which I forget off
the top of my head] to change sources and upgrade to the next release.
No, I am not. How did you get that idea?
Kind regards,
Stefan
11:44 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: TDE, Debian Install Wiki page (unclear/errors?)
PS: If the answers are no, then my entire
understanding of dist-upgrade
(now an alias for full-upgrade) seems to be erroneous, as doesn’t the
dist-upgrade/full-upgrade process itself update your source.list to the
next major distribution version so it can do the distribution upgrade?
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 7:31 AM, Stefan Krusche <linux(a)stefan-krusche.de>
wrote:
Am Donnerstag 23 August 2018 schrieb John Pisini:
--
John Pisini
Systems Administrator
TFCCS
617-450-3988
Disclaimer for email:
The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to
this message is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may
contain confidential or privileged information. This email is not intended
to, and shall not, constitute an electronic signature giving rise to a
binding legal contract, unless expressly stated otherwise in the body of
the email by the sender.
I think you are thinking of Ubuntu which uses a
command [which I forget
off
the top of my head] to change sources and upgrade
to the next release.
No, I am not. How did you get that idea?
Kind regards,
Stefan
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11:45 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: TDE, Debian Install Wiki page (unclear/errors?)
For Ubuntu
- apt-get upgrade
- do-release-upgrade
- apt-get dist-upgrade
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 7:44 AM, Pisini, John <pisinij(a)csps.com> wrote:
--
John Pisini
Systems Administrator
TFCCS
617-450-3988
Disclaimer for email:
The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to
this message is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may
contain confidential or privileged information. This email is not intended
to, and shall not, constitute an electronic signature giving rise to a
binding legal contract, unless expressly stated otherwise in the body of
the email by the sender.
PS: If the
answers are no, then my entire understanding of dist-upgrade
(now an alias for full-upgrade) seems to be erroneous, as doesn’t the
dist-upgrade/full-upgrade process itself update your source.list to the
next major distribution version so it can do the distribution upgrade?
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 7:31 AM, Stefan Krusche <linux(a)stefan-krusche.de>
wrote:
Am Donnerstag 23 August 2018 schrieb John
Pisini:
--
John Pisini
Systems Administrator
TFCCS
617-450-3988
Disclaimer for email:
The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments
to this message is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and
may contain confidential or privileged information. This email is not
intended to, and shall not, constitute an electronic signature giving rise
to a binding legal contract, unless expressly stated otherwise in the body
of the email by the sender.
I think you are thinking of Ubuntu which uses a
command [which I forget
off
the top of my head] to change sources and upgrade
to the next release.
No, I am not. How did you get that idea?
Kind regards,
Stefan
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1:13 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: TDE, Debian Install Wiki page (unclear/errors?)
Hi John,
Am Donnerstag 23 August 2018 schrieb Pisini, John:
For Ubuntu
- apt-get upgrade
- do-release-upgrade
I haven't seen this "do-release-upgrade" (Ubuntu-specific?) command been
mentioned before in this thread. Maybe in the instructions for updating
Ubuntu..?
- apt-get dist-upgrade
In general I was trying to point out that only TDE packages are upgraded if you
only change the information for the TDE repos (trinity.list), not how to change
sources repositories for the distribution, if that wasn't clear.
Stefan
2326
days inactive
2332
days old
13 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
deloptes -
Greg Madden -
John Pisini -
Michael -
Michele Calgaro -
Pisini, John
-
Slávek Banko -
Stefan Krusche