I stumbled across this from the TDE, Devuan Wiki page, and unfortunately I don’t have enough knowledge of Debian to know what a proper fix, or additional wording for a clarification, for these would be.
Ref: https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/DebianInstall
Section: 4.1 Fresh R14.0.x installation
lists TDE v3.5.13.2 instructions…
(I can’t really tell, but I think a header got left out?)
Section: 4.2 Upgrading from an existing R14.0.x or v3.5.13.x installation
has the command, “sudo aptitude full-upgrade”
Per Googling, “full-upgrade is the former dist-upgrade” Per, https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.apt-get.html “such as the change from one major Debian version to the next, you need to use apt full-upgrade”
Whatever the correct instructions are, is being forced to upgrade from say ‘7.x - wheezy’ to ‘9.x - stretch’ accurate? But, that does seem to directly conflict with the information presented in “1.1 R14.0.x series,” which implies I can stay on ‘7.x - wheezy’ and install R14x.
# # #
Would someone add some additional appropriate information to that page? And if the distribution upgrade is a requirement, also add some really ‘bold’ warnings?
Best, Michael
Michael wrote:
Whatever the correct instructions are, is being forced to upgrade from say ‘7.x - wheezy’ to ‘9.x - stretch’ accurate? But, that does seem to directly conflict with the information presented in “1.1 R14.0.x series,” which implies I can stay on ‘7.x - wheezy’ and install R14x.
Hi, you can use TDE 14.X with whatever underlaying linux distribution. The condition is that tde should be compiled against the packages/libraries of this distribution. So watch out to add the correct sources to the source lists.
As far as upgrade is concerned in debian it is not safe to skip a version - example wheezy -> stretch is risky and not recommended. What debian recommends is wheezy -> jessie -> stretch.
Whatever you do - the TDE source list should match the distro version.
I hope it helps
regards
PS: regarding changing wiki - if you don't want or don't have permissions to do it, provide detailed instruction what you think needs to be changed. I couldn't understand exactly what you mean at first reading.
On Friday 17 August 2018 02:18:41 pm deloptes wrote:
Michael wrote:
Whatever the correct instructions are, is being forced to upgrade from say ‘7.x - wheezy’ to ‘9.x - stretch’ accurate? But, that does seem to directly conflict with the information presented in “1.1 R14.0.x series,” which implies I can stay on ‘7.x - wheezy’ and install R14x.
Hi, you can use TDE 14.X with whatever underlaying linux distribution. The condition is that tde should be compiled against the packages/libraries of this distribution. So watch out to add the correct sources to the source lists.
As far as upgrade is concerned in debian it is not safe to skip a version - example wheezy -> stretch is risky and not recommended. What debian recommends is wheezy -> jessie -> stretch.
Whatever you do - the TDE source list should match the distro version.
I hope it helps
regards
PS: regarding changing wiki - if you don't want or don't have permissions to do it, provide detailed instruction what you think needs to be changed. I couldn't understand exactly what you mean at first reading.
Hi Del,
I can change the wiki, I don't know what to change it to ;)
My background is 95% CentOS with 5% Ubuntu 14.04 as a test of a 'more convenient' working environment.
Based upon what you've said, then yes there is a serious problem with the Debian wiki page as the instructions as given (AKAIU) are going to upgrade their distribution instead of just upgrading their TDE version.
This section from the Debian Aptitude instruction page, also explicitly states not to use 'full-upgrade,' so again the instructions on TDE Debian Wiki are almost guaranteed to be 'wrong.'
https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude How to upgrade your distribution
Upgrading from one stable release to the next (e.g. Lenny to Squeeze) is done by following the release notes for your architecture. For most people with 32 bit systems that means the Release Notes for Intel x86. For most with 64 bit systems that means the Release Notes for AMD64.
Using full-upgrade in the regular course of events is no longer the recommended practice (unless you are running sid, in which case you should not need to be reading this.)
Minor release upgrades (e.g. from lenny 5.0.1 to 5.0.2) and security updates are done with safe-upgrade.
Find out the current version of Debian that you are running:
$ cat /etc/debian_version
Example for upgrading from, e.g., etch 4.0r1 to 4.0r2 ...etc., or applying security upgrades:
# aptitude update # aptitude safe-upgrade
Looking at the Ubuntu page, the same 'error' has been published:
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Ubuntu_Trinity_Repository_Installation_Instr... 6.2 Upgrading from an existing R14.0.x or v3.5.13.x installation sudo aptitude full-upgrade
# # # # #
At my level of 'aptitude' knowledge, I can tell the instructions as given are almost guaranteed to be erroneous, and very liable to cause some serious ill will, but what the correct instructions for 'aptitude' systems should be is beyond me. Therefore:
Would someone go 'fix' all the TDE 'aptitude' Wiki pages?
Or, if the TDE instructions as given are correct, then explain the discrepancies with published 'aptitude' sources?
Best and Thanks, Michael
On Saturday 18 of August 2018 18:29:52 Michael wrote:
On Friday 17 August 2018 02:18:41 pm deloptes wrote:
Michael wrote:
Whatever the correct instructions are, is being forced to upgrade from say ‘7.x - wheezy’ to ‘9.x - stretch’ accurate? But, that does seem to directly conflict with the information presented in “1.1 R14.0.x series,” which implies I can stay on ‘7.x - wheezy’ and install R14x.
Hi, you can use TDE 14.X with whatever underlaying linux distribution. The condition is that tde should be compiled against the packages/libraries of this distribution. So watch out to add the correct sources to the source lists.
As far as upgrade is concerned in debian it is not safe to skip a version - example wheezy -> stretch is risky and not recommended. What debian recommends is wheezy -> jessie -> stretch.
Whatever you do - the TDE source list should match the distro version.
I hope it helps
regards
PS: regarding changing wiki - if you don't want or don't have permissions to do it, provide detailed instruction what you think needs to be changed. I couldn't understand exactly what you mean at first reading.
Hi Del,
I can change the wiki, I don't know what to change it to ;)
My background is 95% CentOS with 5% Ubuntu 14.04 as a test of a 'more convenient' working environment.
Based upon what you've said, then yes there is a serious problem with the Debian wiki page as the instructions as given (AKAIU) are going to upgrade their distribution instead of just upgrading their TDE version.
This section from the Debian Aptitude instruction page, also explicitly states not to use 'full-upgrade,' so again the instructions on TDE Debian Wiki are almost guaranteed to be 'wrong.'
https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude How to upgrade your distribution
Upgrading from one stable release to the next (e.g. Lenny to Squeeze) is done by following the release notes for your architecture. For most people with 32 bit systems that means the Release Notes for Intel x86. For most with 64 bit systems that means the Release Notes for AMD64.
Using full-upgrade in the regular course of events is no longer the recommended practice (unless you are running sid, in which case you should not need to be reading this.)
Minor release upgrades (e.g. from lenny 5.0.1 to 5.0.2) and security updates are done with safe-upgrade.
Find out the current version of Debian that you are running:$ cat /etc/debian_version
Example for upgrading from, e.g., etch 4.0r1 to 4.0r2 ...etc., or applying security upgrades:
# aptitude update # aptitude safe-upgrade
Looking at the Ubuntu page, the same 'error' has been published:
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Ubuntu_Trinity_Repository_Installation_ Instructions 6.2 Upgrading from an existing R14.0.x or v3.5.13.x installation sudo aptitude full-upgrade
# # # # #
At my level of 'aptitude' knowledge, I can tell the instructions as given are almost guaranteed to be erroneous, and very liable to cause some serious ill will, but what the correct instructions for 'aptitude' systems should be is beyond me. Therefore:
Would someone go 'fix' all the TDE 'aptitude' Wiki pages?
Or, if the TDE instructions as given are correct, then explain the discrepancies with published 'aptitude' sources?
Best and Thanks, Michael
Your information here looks very confusing.
Using aptitude full-upgrade does not mean that it cause update from one version of distribution to another. Using aptitude full-upgrade certainly does not mean that it would cause that Debian 7.x will be updated to Debian 9.x. It always depends on what version is listed in sources.list!
If wheezy is listed in source.list then aptitude full-upgrade will only update packages within Debian 7.x. No Debian 9.x package comes on board. You must have your sources.list in order. For example, you can not use TDE packages for Stretch if your distribution is Wheezy.
The use of aptitude full-upgrade is quite right here, because in the case of update from TDE 3.5.13.x to TDE R14.0.x, there is a great change to the version and installation of many new packages. For this case, aptitude safe-upgrade is unusable.
In case of updating to R14.0.5 from previous R14.0.x here is a new package tdebase-tdeio-smb-trinity, which will be separated from package tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity. That's why it's good to use aptitude full-upgrade for upgrade to R14.0.5.
That's why I do not see anything wrong with the instructions on the Wiki. Using aptitude full-upgrade is definitely not an error. On the contrary, sometimes it is necessary. The warnings placed on the wiki therefore seem to me very confusing and wrong.
Cheers
On Saturday 18 August 2018 12:27:53 pm Slávek Banko wrote:
On Saturday 18 of August 2018 18:29:52 Michael wrote:
On Friday 17 August 2018 02:18:41 pm deloptes wrote:
Michael wrote:
Whatever the correct instructions are, is being forced to upgrade from say ‘7.x - wheezy’ to ‘9.x - stretch’ accurate? But, that does seem to directly conflict with the information presented in “1.1 R14.0.x series,” which implies I can stay on ‘7.x - wheezy’ and install R14x.
Hi, you can use TDE 14.X with whatever underlaying linux distribution. The condition is that tde should be compiled against the packages/libraries of this distribution. So watch out to add the correct sources to the source lists.
As far as upgrade is concerned in debian it is not safe to skip a version - example wheezy -> stretch is risky and not recommended. What debian recommends is wheezy -> jessie -> stretch.
Whatever you do - the TDE source list should match the distro version.
I hope it helps
regards
PS: regarding changing wiki - if you don't want or don't have permissions to do it, provide detailed instruction what you think needs to be changed. I couldn't understand exactly what you mean at first reading.
Hi Del,
I can change the wiki, I don't know what to change it to ;)
My background is 95% CentOS with 5% Ubuntu 14.04 as a test of a 'more convenient' working environment.
Based upon what you've said, then yes there is a serious problem with the Debian wiki page as the instructions as given (AKAIU) are going to upgrade their distribution instead of just upgrading their TDE version.
This section from the Debian Aptitude instruction page, also explicitly states not to use 'full-upgrade,' so again the instructions on TDE Debian Wiki are almost guaranteed to be 'wrong.'
https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude How to upgrade your distribution
Upgrading from one stable release to the next (e.g. Lenny to Squeeze) is done by following the release notes for your architecture. For most people with 32 bit systems that means the Release Notes for Intel x86. For most with 64 bit systems that means the Release Notes for AMD64.
Using full-upgrade in the regular course of events is no longer the recommended practice (unless you are running sid, in which case you should not need to be reading this.)
Minor release upgrades (e.g. from lenny 5.0.1 to 5.0.2) and security updates are done with safe-upgrade.
Find out the current version of Debian that you are running:$ cat /etc/debian_version
Example for upgrading from, e.g., etch 4.0r1 to 4.0r2 ...etc., or applying security upgrades:
# aptitude update # aptitude safe-upgrade
Looking at the Ubuntu page, the same 'error' has been published:
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Ubuntu_Trinity_Repository_Installation_ Instructions 6.2 Upgrading from an existing R14.0.x or v3.5.13.x installation sudo aptitude full-upgrade
# # # # #
At my level of 'aptitude' knowledge, I can tell the instructions as given are almost guaranteed to be erroneous, and very liable to cause some serious ill will, but what the correct instructions for 'aptitude' systems should be is beyond me. Therefore:
Would someone go 'fix' all the TDE 'aptitude' Wiki pages?
Or, if the TDE instructions as given are correct, then explain the discrepancies with published 'aptitude' sources?
Best and Thanks, Michael
Your information here looks very confusing.
Using aptitude full-upgrade does not mean that it cause update from one version of distribution to another. Using aptitude full-upgrade certainly does not mean that it would cause that Debian 7.x will be updated to Debian 9.x. It always depends on what version is listed in sources.list!
If wheezy is listed in source.list then aptitude full-upgrade will only update packages within Debian 7.x. No Debian 9.x package comes on board. You must have your sources.list in order. For example, you can not use TDE packages for Stretch if your distribution is Wheezy.
The use of aptitude full-upgrade is quite right here, because in the case of update from TDE 3.5.13.x to TDE R14.0.x, there is a great change to the version and installation of many new packages. For this case, aptitude safe-upgrade is unusable.
In case of updating to R14.0.5 from previous R14.0.x here is a new package tdebase-tdeio-smb-trinity, which will be separated from package tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity. That's why it's good to use aptitude full-upgrade for upgrade to R14.0.5.
That's why I do not see anything wrong with the instructions on the Wiki. Using aptitude full-upgrade is definitely not an error. On the contrary, sometimes it is necessary. The warnings placed on the wiki therefore seem to me very confusing and wrong.
Cheers
Hi Slávek,
Apologies if my lack of knowledge of aptitude based distributions is hindering this discussion.
So, let’s see if I can shorten this to just 3 yes/no questions for foundation clarity...
Doesn’t full-upgrade upgrade the distribution to the next major version?
Reference: https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.apt-get.html “such as the change from one major Debian version to the next, you need to use apt full-upgrade”
By using “sudo aptitude full-upgrade” for “Upgrading from an existing
R14.0.x” will it not upgrade both TDE and also distribution upgrade Ubuntu?
Context: https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Ubuntu_Trinity_Repository_Installation_Instr...
If both answers are yes, then the TDE ‘aptitude’ wiki pages are erroneous as written. (As they are telling the user to both upgrade TDE and to do a distribution major version upgrade, when the user may only wish to upgrade TDE.)
Doesn’t Debian specifically say not to use full-upgrade for a distribution
upgrade?
Reference: https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude “Upgrading from one stable release to the next (e.g. Lenny to Squeeze) is done by following the release notes for your architecture.” “Using full-upgrade in the regular course of events is no longer the recommended practice”
Okay, this is a bit contradictory to the prior Debian handbook information, but if this answer is yes, then again the wiki pages are erroneous as written. As they should have links to the various distribution release notes.
# # #
The answers to those 3 questions will give us a mutual foundation for me to clarify what I’m trying address.
Best, Michael
PS: If the answers are no, then my entire understanding of dist-upgrade (now an alias for full-upgrade) seems to be erroneous, as doesn’t the dist-upgrade/full-upgrade process itself update your source.list to the next major distribution version so it can do the distribution upgrade?
On Sunday 19 of August 2018 04:08:57 Michael wrote:
On Saturday 18 August 2018 12:27:53 pm Slávek Banko wrote:
On Saturday 18 of August 2018 18:29:52 Michael wrote:
On Friday 17 August 2018 02:18:41 pm deloptes wrote:
Michael wrote:
Whatever the correct instructions are, is being forced to upgrade from say ‘7.x - wheezy’ to ‘9.x - stretch’ accurate? But, that does seem to directly conflict with the information presented in “1.1 R14.0.x series,” which implies I can stay on ‘7.x - wheezy’ and install R14x.
Hi, you can use TDE 14.X with whatever underlaying linux distribution. The condition is that tde should be compiled against the packages/libraries of this distribution. So watch out to add the correct sources to the source lists.
As far as upgrade is concerned in debian it is not safe to skip a version - example wheezy -> stretch is risky and not recommended. What debian recommends is wheezy -> jessie -> stretch.
Whatever you do - the TDE source list should match the distro version.
I hope it helps
regards
PS: regarding changing wiki - if you don't want or don't have permissions to do it, provide detailed instruction what you think needs to be changed. I couldn't understand exactly what you mean at first reading.
Hi Del,
I can change the wiki, I don't know what to change it to ;)
My background is 95% CentOS with 5% Ubuntu 14.04 as a test of a 'more convenient' working environment.
Based upon what you've said, then yes there is a serious problem with the Debian wiki page as the instructions as given (AKAIU) are going to upgrade their distribution instead of just upgrading their TDE version.
This section from the Debian Aptitude instruction page, also explicitly states not to use 'full-upgrade,' so again the instructions on TDE Debian Wiki are almost guaranteed to be 'wrong.'
https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude How to upgrade your distribution
Upgrading from one stable release to the next (e.g. Lenny to Squeeze) is done by following the release notes for your architecture. For most people with 32 bit systems that means the Release Notes for Intel x86. For most with 64 bit systems that means the Release Notes for AMD64.
Using full-upgrade in the regular course of events is no longer the recommended practice (unless you are running sid, in which case you should not need to be reading this.)
Minor release upgrades (e.g. from lenny 5.0.1 to 5.0.2) and security updates are done with safe-upgrade.
Find out the current version of Debian that you are running:$ cat /etc/debian_version
Example for upgrading from, e.g., etch 4.0r1 to 4.0r2 ...etc., or applying security upgrades:
# aptitude update # aptitude safe-upgrade
Looking at the Ubuntu page, the same 'error' has been published:
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Ubuntu_Trinity_Repository_Installat ion_ Instructions 6.2 Upgrading from an existing R14.0.x or v3.5.13.x installation sudo aptitude full-upgrade
# # # # #
At my level of 'aptitude' knowledge, I can tell the instructions as given are almost guaranteed to be erroneous, and very liable to cause some serious ill will, but what the correct instructions for 'aptitude' systems should be is beyond me. Therefore:
Would someone go 'fix' all the TDE 'aptitude' Wiki pages?
Or, if the TDE instructions as given are correct, then explain the discrepancies with published 'aptitude' sources?
Best and Thanks, Michael
Your information here looks very confusing.
Using aptitude full-upgrade does not mean that it cause update from one version of distribution to another. Using aptitude full-upgrade certainly does not mean that it would cause that Debian 7.x will be updated to Debian 9.x. It always depends on what version is listed in sources.list!
If wheezy is listed in source.list then aptitude full-upgrade will only update packages within Debian 7.x. No Debian 9.x package comes on board. You must have your sources.list in order. For example, you can not use TDE packages for Stretch if your distribution is Wheezy.
The use of aptitude full-upgrade is quite right here, because in the case of update from TDE 3.5.13.x to TDE R14.0.x, there is a great change to the version and installation of many new packages. For this case, aptitude safe-upgrade is unusable.
In case of updating to R14.0.5 from previous R14.0.x here is a new package tdebase-tdeio-smb-trinity, which will be separated from package tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity. That's why it's good to use aptitude full-upgrade for upgrade to R14.0.5.
That's why I do not see anything wrong with the instructions on the Wiki. Using aptitude full-upgrade is definitely not an error. On the contrary, sometimes it is necessary. The warnings placed on the wiki therefore seem to me very confusing and wrong.
Cheers
Hi Slávek,
Apologies if my lack of knowledge of aptitude based distributions is hindering this discussion.
So, let’s see if I can shorten this to just 3 yes/no questions for foundation clarity...
Doesn’t full-upgrade upgrade the distribution to the next major version?
Reference: https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.apt-get.html “such as the change from one major Debian version to the next, you need to use apt full-upgrade”
By using “sudo aptitude full-upgrade” for “Upgrading from an existing
R14.0.x” will it not upgrade both TDE and also distribution upgrade Ubuntu?
Context: https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Ubuntu_Trinity_Repository_Installation_ Instructions#Upgrading_from_an_existing_R14.0.x_or_v3.5.13.x_installatio n
If both answers are yes, then the TDE ‘aptitude’ wiki pages are erroneous as written. (As they are telling the user to both upgrade TDE and to do a distribution major version upgrade, when the user may only wish to upgrade TDE.)
Doesn’t Debian specifically say not to use full-upgrade for a distribution
upgrade?
Reference: https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude “Upgrading from one stable release to the next (e.g. Lenny to Squeeze) is done by following the release notes for your architecture.” “Using full-upgrade in the regular course of events is no longer the recommended practice”
Okay, this is a bit contradictory to the prior Debian handbook information, but if this answer is yes, then again the wiki pages are erroneous as written. As they should have links to the various distribution release notes.
# # #
The answers to those 3 questions will give us a mutual foundation for me to clarify what I’m trying address.
Best, Michael
PS: If the answers are no, then my entire understanding of dist-upgrade (now an alias for full-upgrade) seems to be erroneous, as doesn’t the dist-upgrade/full-upgrade process itself update your source.list to the next major distribution version so it can do the distribution upgrade?
Hi Michael,
1) aptitude full-upgrade (or dist-upgrade) does not make any changes to sources.list. If you do not make the change yourself, no distribution version change will be made.
2) The aptitude documentation says that when you change the distribution version (which must be done by the user itself), it is necessary to use aptitude full-upgrade. But that does not mean that aptitude full-upgrade can not be used in other situations.
3) The recommendation to use aptitude full-upgrade on TDE Wiki is perfectly fine. This will not cause a change of distribution version, but will provide an easy transition when renaming packages, split packages, and so on.
Cheers
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
Hi Michael,
- aptitude full-upgrade (or dist-upgrade) does not make any changes to sources.list. If you do not make the change
yourself, no distribution version change will be made.
- The aptitude documentation says that when you change the distribution version (which must be done by the user
itself), it is necessary to use aptitude full-upgrade. But that does not mean that aptitude full-upgrade can not be used in other situations.
- The recommendation to use aptitude full-upgrade on TDE Wiki is perfectly fine. This will not cause a change of
distribution version, but will provide an easy transition when renaming packages, split packages, and so on.
Cheers
Hi all, as explained by Slavek, the instruction on the wiki page are correct. Therefore I have removed the warning on top of the page. Cheers Michele
On Saturday 18 August 2018 07:12:16 pm Slávek Banko wrote:
On Sunday 19 of August 2018 04:08:57 Michael wrote:
On Saturday 18 August 2018 12:27:53 pm Slávek Banko wrote:
On Saturday 18 of August 2018 18:29:52 Michael wrote:
On Friday 17 August 2018 02:18:41 pm deloptes wrote:
Michael wrote:
Whatever the correct instructions are, is being forced to upgrade from say ‘7.x - wheezy’ to ‘9.x - stretch’ accurate? But, that does seem to directly conflict with the information presented in “1.1 R14.0.x series,” which implies I can stay on ‘7.x - wheezy’ and install R14x.
Hi, you can use TDE 14.X with whatever underlaying linux distribution. The condition is that tde should be compiled against the packages/libraries of this distribution. So watch out to add the correct sources to the source lists.
As far as upgrade is concerned in debian it is not safe to skip a version - example wheezy -> stretch is risky and not recommended. What debian recommends is wheezy -> jessie -> stretch.
Whatever you do - the TDE source list should match the distro version.
I hope it helps
regards
PS: regarding changing wiki - if you don't want or don't have permissions to do it, provide detailed instruction what you think needs to be changed. I couldn't understand exactly what you mean at first reading.
Hi Del,
I can change the wiki, I don't know what to change it to ;)
My background is 95% CentOS with 5% Ubuntu 14.04 as a test of a 'more convenient' working environment.
Based upon what you've said, then yes there is a serious problem with the Debian wiki page as the instructions as given (AKAIU) are going to upgrade their distribution instead of just upgrading their TDE version.
This section from the Debian Aptitude instruction page, also explicitly states not to use 'full-upgrade,' so again the instructions on TDE Debian Wiki are almost guaranteed to be 'wrong.'
https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude How to upgrade your distribution
Upgrading from one stable release to the next (e.g. Lenny to Squeeze) is done by following the release notes for your architecture. For most people with 32 bit systems that means the Release Notes for Intel x86. For most with 64 bit systems that means the Release Notes for AMD64.
Using full-upgrade in the regular course of events is no longer the recommended practice (unless you are running sid, in which case you should not need to be reading this.)
Minor release upgrades (e.g. from lenny 5.0.1 to 5.0.2) and security updates are done with safe-upgrade.
Find out the current version of Debian that you are running:$ cat /etc/debian_version
Example for upgrading from, e.g., etch 4.0r1 to 4.0r2 ...etc., or applying security upgrades:
# aptitude update # aptitude safe-upgrade
Looking at the Ubuntu page, the same 'error' has been published:
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Ubuntu_Trinity_Repository_Installat ion_ Instructions 6.2 Upgrading from an existing R14.0.x or v3.5.13.x installation sudo aptitude full-upgrade
# # # # #
At my level of 'aptitude' knowledge, I can tell the instructions as given are almost guaranteed to be erroneous, and very liable to cause some serious ill will, but what the correct instructions for 'aptitude' systems should be is beyond me. Therefore:
Would someone go 'fix' all the TDE 'aptitude' Wiki pages?
Or, if the TDE instructions as given are correct, then explain the discrepancies with published 'aptitude' sources?
Best and Thanks, Michael
Your information here looks very confusing.
Using aptitude full-upgrade does not mean that it cause update from one version of distribution to another. Using aptitude full-upgrade certainly does not mean that it would cause that Debian 7.x will be updated to Debian 9.x. It always depends on what version is listed in sources.list!
If wheezy is listed in source.list then aptitude full-upgrade will only update packages within Debian 7.x. No Debian 9.x package comes on board. You must have your sources.list in order. For example, you can not use TDE packages for Stretch if your distribution is Wheezy.
The use of aptitude full-upgrade is quite right here, because in the case of update from TDE 3.5.13.x to TDE R14.0.x, there is a great change to the version and installation of many new packages. For this case, aptitude safe-upgrade is unusable.
In case of updating to R14.0.5 from previous R14.0.x here is a new package tdebase-tdeio-smb-trinity, which will be separated from package tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity. That's why it's good to use aptitude full-upgrade for upgrade to R14.0.5.
That's why I do not see anything wrong with the instructions on the Wiki. Using aptitude full-upgrade is definitely not an error. On the contrary, sometimes it is necessary. The warnings placed on the wiki therefore seem to me very confusing and wrong.
Cheers
Hi Slávek,
Apologies if my lack of knowledge of aptitude based distributions is hindering this discussion.
So, let’s see if I can shorten this to just 3 yes/no questions for foundation clarity...
Doesn’t full-upgrade upgrade the distribution to the next major version?
Reference: https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.apt-get.html “such as the change from one major Debian version to the next, you need to use apt full-upgrade”
By using “sudo aptitude full-upgrade” for “Upgrading from an existing
R14.0.x” will it not upgrade both TDE and also distribution upgrade Ubuntu?
Context: https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Ubuntu_Trinity_Repository_Installation_ Instructions#Upgrading_from_an_existing_R14.0.x_or_v3.5.13.x_installatio n
If both answers are yes, then the TDE ‘aptitude’ wiki pages are erroneous as written. (As they are telling the user to both upgrade TDE and to do a distribution major version upgrade, when the user may only wish to upgrade TDE.)
Doesn’t Debian specifically say not to use full-upgrade for a distribution
upgrade?
Reference: https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude “Upgrading from one stable release to the next (e.g. Lenny to Squeeze) is done by following the release notes for your architecture.” “Using full-upgrade in the regular course of events is no longer the recommended practice”
Okay, this is a bit contradictory to the prior Debian handbook information, but if this answer is yes, then again the wiki pages are erroneous as written. As they should have links to the various distribution release notes.
# # #
The answers to those 3 questions will give us a mutual foundation for me to clarify what I’m trying address.
Best, Michael
PS: If the answers are no, then my entire understanding of dist-upgrade (now an alias for full-upgrade) seems to be erroneous, as doesn’t the dist-upgrade/full-upgrade process itself update your source.list to the next major distribution version so it can do the distribution upgrade?
Hi Michael,
- aptitude full-upgrade (or dist-upgrade) does not make any changes to
sources.list. If you do not make the change yourself, no distribution version change will be made.
- The aptitude documentation says that when you change the distribution
version (which must be done by the user itself), it is necessary to use aptitude full-upgrade. But that does not mean that aptitude full-upgrade can not be used in other situations.
- The recommendation to use aptitude full-upgrade on TDE Wiki is
perfectly fine. This will not cause a change of distribution version, but will provide an easy transition when renaming packages, split packages, and so on.
Cheers
+1
hopefully not adding to any confusion.
"upgrade" upgrades all packages except those that require NEW packages to be installed to satisfy dependancies..hence the "held back" message.
dist-upgrade or full-upgrade will satisfy all dependancies and install new packages if required.
but, all work from the sources.list, third party apps, ie. google, manage their repo in sources.d directory.
greg
Dear Michael,
Am Sonntag 19 August 2018 schrieb Michael:
PS: If the answers are no, then my entire understanding of dist-upgrade (now an alias for full-upgrade) seems to be erroneous, as doesn’t the dist-upgrade/full-upgrade process itself update your source.list to the next major distribution version so it can do the distribution upgrade?
Yes, you don't seem to understand the debian package management well enough here. As has been said, every command with apt, apt-get, aptitude or dpkg (package management tools) etc. depends on which repositories are indicated in /etc/apt/sources.list (and others in /etc/sources.list.d/*, maybe).
For example, if you are running Debian wheezy you would have something like:
deb http://ftp.debian.de/pub/linux/debian/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free
in your sources.list. When you now would do a
aptitude dist-upgrade
nothing actually would happen as aptitude would look up the contents of the repository for wheezy on the given server (and only update its database from what has been changed *within* the server-side wheezy repo).
When you now change the information in sources.list (or the trinity's sources.list in /etc/sources.list.d/ -- which technically doesn't matter because apt etc. look up both) to a new TDE version for wheezy (!) like this, e.g.:
# before deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-v3.5.13/debian wheezy main
# after deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian wheezy main
then apt would get new information for tde packages only and upgrade those while the information for the distribution's repos in sources.list stays the same and still nothing but tde packages would be upgraded. (there might be rare exceptions when packages *within* wheezy had been upgraded to new versions (in the repo) which would be upgraded as well then).
HTH
Kind regards, Stefan
I think you are thinking of Ubuntu which uses a command [which I forget off the top of my head] to change sources and upgrade to the next release.
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 4:57 AM Stefan Krusche linux@stefan-krusche.de wrote:
Dear Michael,
Am Sonntag 19 August 2018 schrieb Michael:
PS: If the answers are no, then my entire understanding of dist-upgrade (now an alias for full-upgrade) seems to be erroneous, as doesn’t the dist-upgrade/full-upgrade process itself update your source.list to the next major distribution version so it can do the distribution upgrade?
Yes, you don't seem to understand the debian package management well enough here. As has been said, every command with apt, apt-get, aptitude or dpkg (package management tools) etc. depends on which repositories are indicated in /etc/apt/sources.list (and others in /etc/sources.list.d/*, maybe).
For example, if you are running Debian wheezy you would have something like:
deb http://ftp.debian.de/pub/linux/debian/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free
in your sources.list. When you now would do a
aptitude dist-upgrade
nothing actually would happen as aptitude would look up the contents of the repository for wheezy on the given server (and only update its database from what has been changed *within* the server-side wheezy repo).
When you now change the information in sources.list (or the trinity's sources.list in /etc/sources.list.d/ -- which technically doesn't matter because apt etc. look up both) to a new TDE version for wheezy (!) like this, e.g.:
# before deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-v3.5.13/debian wheezy main
# after deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian wheezy main
then apt would get new information for tde packages only and upgrade those while the information for the distribution's repos in sources.list stays the same and still nothing but tde packages would be upgraded. (there might be rare exceptions when packages *within* wheezy had been upgraded to new versions (in the repo) which would be upgraded as well then).
HTH
Kind regards, Stefan
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Am Donnerstag 23 August 2018 schrieb John Pisini:
I think you are thinking of Ubuntu which uses a command [which I forget off the top of my head] to change sources and upgrade to the next release.
No, I am not. How did you get that idea?
Kind regards, Stefan
PS: If the answers are no, then my entire understanding of dist-upgrade (now an alias for full-upgrade) seems to be erroneous, as doesn’t the dist-upgrade/full-upgrade process itself update your source.list to the next major distribution version so it can do the distribution upgrade?
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 7:31 AM, Stefan Krusche linux@stefan-krusche.de wrote:
Am Donnerstag 23 August 2018 schrieb John Pisini:
I think you are thinking of Ubuntu which uses a command [which I forget
off
the top of my head] to change sources and upgrade to the next release.
No, I am not. How did you get that idea?
Kind regards, Stefan
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For Ubuntu
- apt-get upgrade - do-release-upgrade - apt-get dist-upgrade
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 7:44 AM, Pisini, John pisinij@csps.com wrote:
PS: If the answers are no, then my entire understanding of dist-upgrade (now an alias for full-upgrade) seems to be erroneous, as doesn’t the dist-upgrade/full-upgrade process itself update your source.list to the next major distribution version so it can do the distribution upgrade?
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 7:31 AM, Stefan Krusche linux@stefan-krusche.de wrote:
Am Donnerstag 23 August 2018 schrieb John Pisini:
I think you are thinking of Ubuntu which uses a command [which I forget
off
the top of my head] to change sources and upgrade to the next release.
No, I am not. How did you get that idea?
Kind regards, Stefan
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Systems Administrator
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Hi John,
Am Donnerstag 23 August 2018 schrieb Pisini, John:
For Ubuntu
- apt-get upgrade - do-release-upgrade
I haven't seen this "do-release-upgrade" (Ubuntu-specific?) command been mentioned before in this thread. Maybe in the instructions for updating Ubuntu..?
- apt-get dist-upgrade
In general I was trying to point out that only TDE packages are upgraded if you only change the information for the TDE repos (trinity.list), not how to change sources repositories for the distribution, if that wasn't clear.
Stefan
-
deloptes -
Greg Madden -
John Pisini -
Michael -
Michele Calgaro -
Pisini, John
-
Slávek Banko -
Stefan Krusche