On Thursday 10 September 2020 10:44:42 BorgLabs - Kate Draven via tde-users wrote:
On Thursday 10 September 2020 10:27:38 BorgLabs - Kate Draven via tde-users
wrote:
On Thursday 10 September 2020, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Hello again!
I told you that you'd miss me when I'm gone. :-]
Please, I need recommendations or strategies for recovering data. I had
a
flash drive become unreadable, after I plugged it into my new
printer
to print out some documents that had been long in waiting. Then, before I could save myself, I had a 1.5 TB hard drive also fail. On this hard drive is (of course) the source of those backup copies on the flash drive. This is the partition which I was just about to backup.
I have several hard drives, from 200 GB up to 8 TB, from 20 years
old
to brand-new; all are WD, except for one which is Seagate. Guess which one failed? I forget when I got it, or why I ever would have got anything
but
WD, or why I would have put anything important there.
I have used ddrescue to try to recover the data, as well as other forensics tools. Recovered images (img and iso) are saved, and
taking
up space, but I cannot determine if there is any useful content in what was recovered. The failing partition has not been deleted. It cannot be read or mounted, so I have just left it like that, so that I can try to save it.
Every attempt to recover the data gives the same result: 2 errors, 3072 B, that cannot be read. I tried using tools to look inside the saved iso image, but no luck there. I don't want to erase or format the failing disk partition until I am sure that I have recovered the data.
My last hope is that I have another 1.5 TB hard drive; I could try
to
write the disk images to that partition before I format the old drive. But first, of course, I would need to backup materials from that drive, and now I am running out of space again.
Bill
P.S. And if things were not bad enough, the skies here in San Francisco are a muddy mixture of orange, black, brown and gray. At noon today, it looked like the middle of the night. _______________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at
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kt op.org
There's another option but a wee bit expensive.
Purchase the same model SG drive (or whatever model etc) that failed and swap out the electronics.
Assuming there's no mechanical damage, it will work. It's often why I buy drives in pairs.
Hope this was helpful.
Kate
It is an internal hard drive, not external. Is that what you mean?
Bill _______________________________________________
I understand. I mean swap out the IDE boards on the drives. Make sure to mark the bad one so you don't try to reuse it.
I've done that only a few times but it works. They must be the same model.
Kate
I do have another 1.5 TB hard drive (though I would need to backup its data first); however, it is WD, not Seagate, and I would not willingly buy
another
Seagate hard drive.
Bill _______________________________________________
You can't mix boards. They must be the same make and model. Perhaps you can buy just the board? Or a used working one?
I've used both SG and WD and have had far more failures with WD. I guess it depends on the models and how they are used? I currently have nearly all SG drives in the "big machine" the server. 12 drives in total with no failures over the last 10 years.
Kate
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On Thursday 10 September 2020 11:11:22 BorgLabs - Kate Draven via tde-users wrote:
On Thursday 10 September 2020 10:44:42 BorgLabs - Kate Draven via tde-users
wrote:
On Thursday 10 September 2020 10:27:38 BorgLabs - Kate Draven via tde-users
wrote:
On Thursday 10 September 2020, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Hello again!
I told you that you'd miss me when I'm gone. :-]
Please, I need recommendations or strategies for recovering data. I had
a
flash drive become unreadable, after I plugged it into my new
printer
to print out some documents that had been long in waiting. Then, before I could save myself, I had a 1.5 TB hard drive also fail. On this hard drive is (of course) the source of those backup copies on the flash drive. This is the partition which I was just about to backup.
I have several hard drives, from 200 GB up to 8 TB, from 20 years
old
to brand-new; all are WD, except for one which is Seagate. Guess which one failed? I forget when I got it, or why I ever would have got anything
but
WD, or why I would have put anything important there.
I have used ddrescue to try to recover the data, as well as other forensics tools. Recovered images (img and iso) are saved, and
taking
up space, but I cannot determine if there is any useful content in what was recovered. The failing partition has not been deleted. It cannot be read or mounted, so I have just left it like that, so that I can try to save it.
Every attempt to recover the data gives the same result: 2 errors, 3072 B, that cannot be read. I tried using tools to look inside the saved iso image, but no luck there. I don't want to erase or format the failing disk partition until I am sure that I have recovered the data.
My last hope is that I have another 1.5 TB hard drive; I could try
to
write the disk images to that partition before I format the old drive. But first, of course, I would need to backup materials from that drive, and now I am running out of space again.
Bill
P.S. And if things were not bad enough, the skies here in San Francisco are a muddy mixture of orange, black, brown and gray. At noon today, it looked like the middle of the night. _______________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinityd es
kt op.org
There's another option but a wee bit expensive.
Purchase the same model SG drive (or whatever model etc) that failed and swap out the electronics.
Assuming there's no mechanical damage, it will work. It's often why I buy drives in pairs.
Hope this was helpful.
Kate
It is an internal hard drive, not external. Is that what you mean?
Bill _______________________________________________
I understand. I mean swap out the IDE boards on the drives. Make sure to mark the bad one so you don't try to reuse it.
I've done that only a few times but it works. They must be the same model.
Kate
I do have another 1.5 TB hard drive (though I would need to backup its data first); however, it is WD, not Seagate, and I would not willingly buy
another
Seagate hard drive.
Bill _______________________________________________
You can't mix boards. They must be the same make and model. Perhaps you can buy just the board? Or a used working one?
I've used both SG and WD and have had far more failures with WD. I guess it depends on the models and how they are used? I currently have nearly all SG drives in the "big machine" the server. 12 drives in total with no failures over the last 10 years.
Kate
I always knew that, if Seagate somehow stays in business, then they must have some customers somewhere. You must be the one.
Bill
William Morder via tde-users wrote:
You can't mix boards. They must be the same make and model. Perhaps you can buy just the board? Or a used working one?
I've used both SG and WD and have had far more failures with WD. I guess it depends on the models and how they are used? I currently have nearly all SG drives in the "big machine" the server. 12 drives in total with no failures over the last 10 years.
Kate
I always knew that, if Seagate somehow stays in business, then they must have some customers somewhere. You must be the one.
Here it was 50:50 failure on the Seagate disks - some older disks/models failed after 5-6y some kept running for 10+ andwere decommissioned. I did some research may be 7y ago and started buying 2TB WD RED for NAS - was recommended for RAID. They seem to be good.
I think Kate means to move the magnetic disks from the failed driver to the one that you know is working. Clearly you can not use different make/model. But it is risky task.
Did you try badblocks? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Badblocks
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On Thursday 10 September 2020 11:36:17 deloptes via tde-users wrote:
William Morder via tde-users wrote:
You can't mix boards. They must be the same make and model. Perhaps you can buy just the board? Or a used working one?
I've used both SG and WD and have had far more failures with WD. I guess it depends on the models and how they are used? I currently have nearly all SG drives in the "big machine" the server. 12 drives in total with no failures over the last 10 years.
Kate
I always knew that, if Seagate somehow stays in business, then they must have some customers somewhere. You must be the one.
Here it was 50:50 failure on the Seagate disks - some older disks/models failed after 5-6y some kept running for 10+ andwere decommissioned. I did some research may be 7y ago and started buying 2TB WD RED for NAS - was recommended for RAID. They seem to be good.
I think Kate means to move the magnetic disks from the failed driver to the one that you know is working. Clearly you can not use different make/model. But it is risky task.
Did you try badblocks? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Badblocks
I intend to try all other avenues for data recovery, before I try performing surgery on the hard disk itself. That is a last option, I think.
Once Kate explained it, I knew what she meant, and I don't imagine it's so hard in itself, just delicate and precise. But I imagine there are how-to pages and wikis out there for just this kind of thing, and I have a hardware toolkit.
Bill
William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I intend to try all other avenues for data recovery, before I try performing surgery on the hard disk itself. That is a last option, I think.
ok, but if you use the badblocks command to identify potential bad block, you could then easily get the filesystem mounted.
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On Thursday 10 September 2020 14:12:08 deloptes wrote:
William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I intend to try all other avenues for data recovery, before I try performing surgery on the hard disk itself. That is a last option, I think.
ok, but if you use the badblocks command to identify potential bad block, you could then easily get the filesystem mounted.
Ah ha! This sounds promising.
Looks like I need to do so more research. I only skimmed over those pages on badblocks, but if I can get it at least mounted, then I ought to be able to recover and move those files to somewhere safe.
Thanks much, everybody!
So far testdisk has progressed to about 80% complete, and it says about the same thing as before. This was never a boot disk, so I wonder if that is a bad sign. Also, it occurred to me that ddrescue's verdict of 2 errors, 3072 B, which didn't look familiar at first glance, is actually 1024 x 3 = 3072, so these 2 errors are only 3 kb?
Do I need to identify (or calculate the position) of these bad blocks? I read something about that. It would be nice if I can get this repaired by some more trustworthy and non-human agent. Can I use badblocks to repair or delete the bad sectors?
Bill
This is at about 80% check_FAT: Unusual number of reserved sectors 4 (FAT), should be 1. check_FAT: Unusual media descriptor (0xf8!=0xf0) Warning: number of heads/cylinder mismatches 64 (FAT) != 255 (HD) Warning: number of sectors per track mismatches 32 (FAT) != 63 (HD) FAT12 54360 71 48 54361 11 50 12288 [Firmware] check_FAT: can't read FAT boot sector Invalid FAT boot sector 0 D FAT12 354362 221 37 438923 86 30 1358463954 FAT12 354362 221 37 438923 86 30 1358463954 Linux 0 0 1 182400 253 61 2930272000
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On Thu September 10 2020 14:26:20 William Morder via trinity-users via tde-users wrote:
Do I need to identify (or calculate the position) of these bad blocks?
I don't mean this disrespectfully but just to better apprise you of your situation.
What you're doing is kind of like brain surgery and if you're doing brain surgery and you're asking a diabetics mailing list whether it's OK to remove this lumpy bit then you probably shouldn't be doing brain surgery.
I have a master's in computer science and a lifetime of experience and if I have to recover a hard drive in that kind of state I do a lot of reading and studying. Sometimes I have to read the source code of a tool to see what it is really doing. If I have to ask a question I ask subject matter experts, not users of this magnificent desktop environment. And with all that I don't always succeed.
--Mike
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 10 Sep 15:44:58 -0700 Mike Bird via tde-users scripsit:
On Thu September 10 2020 14:26:20 William Morder via trinity-users via tde-users wrote:
Do I need to identify (or calculate the position) of these bad blocks?
I don't mean this disrespectfully but just to better apprise you of your situation.
What you're doing is kind of like brain surgery and if you're doing brain surgery and you're asking a diabetics mailing list whether it's OK to remove this lumpy bit then you probably shouldn't be doing brain surgery.
I have a master's in computer science and a lifetime of experience and if I have to recover a hard drive in that kind of state I do a lot of reading and studying. Sometimes I have to read the source code of a tool to see what it is really doing. If I have to ask a question I ask subject matter experts, not users of this magnificent desktop environment. And with all that I don't always succeed.
Now that you mention brain surgery ... there was that old put-that-disk-in-the-fridge-trick. Remember some unpleasent situations with cables running from the wrong side of the fridge and a stressed guy defending that assembly against zombies trying to steal strawberry icecream which happed to be an essental part of the plan ... might be it was myself :)
nik
--Mike _______________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
On Thursday 10 September 2020 15:44:58 Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
On Thu September 10 2020 14:26:20 William Morder via trinity-users via
tde-users wrote:
Do I need to identify (or calculate the position) of these bad blocks?
I don't mean this disrespectfully but just to better apprise you of your situation.
What you're doing is kind of like brain surgery and if you're doing brain surgery and you're asking a diabetics mailing list whether it's OK to remove this lumpy bit then you probably shouldn't be doing brain surgery.
I have a master's in computer science and a lifetime of experience and if I have to recover a hard drive in that kind of state I do a lot of reading and studying. Sometimes I have to read the source code of a tool to see what it is really doing. If I have to ask a question I ask subject matter experts, not users of this magnificent desktop environment. And with all that I don't always succeed.
--Mike
This is why I am asking questions. If I am impatient, it is because I would rather not be messing with computers at all, but want to get to my 40 years of research materials and personal data that are trapped on the hard drive.
I use my computers for other work, but now it becomes necessary to learn new skills that are not really suited to my temperament. However, this is what needs to be done, so I find a way.
Until about 2005, computers were for me only glorified typewriters, and I never used the Internet before 2000. I taught myself to run Linux so that I could have more control over my system (and I do like to build things, like hardware), but I don't claim to know anything. I find my way like a blind person feeling around in a new place.
It does help to have people who can tell me what they know better than I.
Bill
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On Thursday 10 September 2020, deloptes wrote:
William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I intend to try all other avenues for data recovery, before I try performing surgery on the hard disk itself. That is a last option, I think.
ok, but if you use the badblocks command to identify potential bad block, you could then easily get the filesystem mounted.
That's a good point. Mount it as a readonly. Wouldn't that work. You might not even need to run an fsck. That's how it works with JFS.
Kate
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Anno domini 2020 Thu, 10 Sep 18:47:10 -0400 BorgLabs - Kate Draven via tde-users scripsit:
On Thursday 10 September 2020, deloptes wrote:
William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I intend to try all other avenues for data recovery, before I try performing surgery on the hard disk itself. That is a last option, I think.
ok, but if you use the badblocks command to identify potential bad block, you could then easily get the filesystem mounted.
That's a good point. Mount it as a readonly. Wouldn't that work. You might not even need to run an fsck. That's how it works with JFS.
ext3/ext4 is never readonly, even when mounted readonly. For forensics you always have to do a 1:1 copy, make it writeprotect and then mount the image.
Nik
Kate
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting _______________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
On Thu September 10 2020 11:19:35 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I always knew that, if Seagate somehow stays in business, then they must have some customers somewhere. You must be the one.
Seagate shipments for 2019 were just ahead of Western Digital shipments with Toshiba trailing well behind.
Over the years it goes in cycles. Manufacturers cut corners until they get a crap reputation and then they have to invest to build their reputation back.
We've got Seagates, Western Digitals, and even some Maxtors. Some of them must be twenty years old. If you protect them from heat and physical shock and power surge the MTBF can be over a century.
--Mike
On Thursday 10 September 2020 13:06:57 Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
On Thu September 10 2020 11:19:35 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I always knew that, if Seagate somehow stays in business, then they must have some customers somewhere. You must be the one.
Seagate shipments for 2019 were just ahead of Western Digital shipments with Toshiba trailing well behind.
Over the years it goes in cycles. Manufacturers cut corners until they get a crap reputation and then they have to invest to build their reputation back.
We've got Seagates, Western Digitals, and even some Maxtors. Some of them must be twenty years old. If you protect them from heat and physical shock and power surge the MTBF can be over a century.
--Mike
Yeah, like I said, some of these are 20 years old, and still going. For me, at least, WD have always been reliable, never failed; I have had a few Seagates fail on me (2 or 3?) over the years, a Maxtor (still sitting here), but never Western Digital.
Besides my own experience, too, among geeks whom I know personally, whose advice has always been sound: they all swear by WD. But if Kate or others have good experiences with Seagate, I'll keep it in mind.
Like you say, things change. Whatever the business, they will eventually try to cut corners in order to maximize profits, because raising prices is usually a bad move.
With these new SSD drives, though, I am in uncharted territory. I passed on a much cheaper Samsung, but eventually got a WD 1 TB SSD, which so far (fingers crossed) has performed like a champion.
Bill
William Morder via tde-users wrote:
With these new SSD drives, though, I am in uncharted territory. I passed on a much cheaper Samsung, but eventually got a WD 1 TB SSD, which so far (fingers crossed) has performed like a champion.
if it matters, use them always in pairs (raid) otherwise backup, cause there are no spinning disks inside that you can extract and recover.
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On Thursday 10 September 2020 14:15:09 deloptes via tde-users wrote:
William Morder via tde-users wrote:
With these new SSD drives, though, I am in uncharted territory. I passed on a much cheaper Samsung, but eventually got a WD 1 TB SSD, which so far (fingers crossed) has performed like a champion.
if it matters, use them always in pairs (raid) otherwise backup, cause there are no spinning disks inside that you can extract and recover.
The SSD is the base of the system, my home partition, etc., but I never keep anything on it permanently. It is strictly for items that are "in transition"; files that I am converting, or recording and mixing tracks for my own music. But then I save copies to other drives.
Bill
On Thursday 10 September 2020, deloptes wrote:
William Morder via tde-users wrote:
With these new SSD drives, though, I am in uncharted territory. I passed on a much cheaper Samsung, but eventually got a WD 1 TB SSD, which so far (fingers crossed) has performed like a champion.
if it matters, use them always in pairs (raid) otherwise backup, cause there are no spinning disks inside that you can extract and recover.
Sage advice. Advice I follow with redundancy. I back up important stuff to a "backups" directory, then /home to another internal drive, which is raided with another. Then to 2 external drives.
I also make DVD backups.
I lost data once, about 22 years ago. I had to start from scratch. Never again.
Kate
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On Thu September 10 2020 15:49:21 BorgLabs - Kate Draven via tde-users wrote:
Sage advice. Advice I follow with redundancy. I back up important stuff to a "backups" directory, then /home to another internal drive, which is raided with another. Then to 2 external drives.
I also make DVD backups.
I lost data once, about 22 years ago. I had to start from scratch. Never again.
I can't afford the time for DVD backups these days but a lot of our stuff is mirrored, plus sets of three rotating hard drive backups via rsync over ssh. Your top risk factor then is human error.
An unfortunate young lady sysadmin in our group circa 1980 mistyped a tar-pipe-tar disk-to-disk backup command pipeline and with the pipe buffer then being a fixed 4KB managed to truncate every file on the server to 4KB. Took her several days to reinstall and reconfigure and recover from the weekly tape backup but she succeeded.
I once accidentally deleted the wrong LVM volume group when reorganizing our backup system. After a screw-up like that it's important not to thrash around and possibly corrupt any deleted data. After much studying and heartburn vgcfgrestore fixed things perfectly in an instant.
--Mike
On Thursday 10 September 2020 15:49:21 BorgLabs - Kate Draven via tde-users wrote:
On Thursday 10 September 2020, deloptes wrote:
William Morder via tde-users wrote:
With these new SSD drives, though, I am in uncharted territory. I passed on a much cheaper Samsung, but eventually got a WD 1 TB SSD, which so far (fingers crossed) has performed like a champion.
if it matters, use them always in pairs (raid) otherwise backup, cause there are no spinning disks inside that you can extract and recover.
Sage advice. Advice I follow with redundancy. I back up important stuff to a "backups" directory, then /home to another internal drive, which is raided with another. Then to 2 external drives.
I also make DVD backups.
I lost data once, about 22 years ago. I had to start from scratch. Never again.
Kate
Yeah, I *thought* that I had learned that lesson. I was redistributing materials on my various hard drives so that I could organize like with like. In the middle of this, when the flash drive failed, followed by the source on this hard disk, I was caught without a backup.
Bill
On Thursday 10 September 2020, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Thursday 10 September 2020 13:06:57 Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
On Thu September 10 2020 11:19:35 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I always knew that, if Seagate somehow stays in business, then they must have some customers somewhere. You must be the one.
Seagate shipments for 2019 were just ahead of Western Digital shipments with Toshiba trailing well behind.
Over the years it goes in cycles. Manufacturers cut corners until they get a crap reputation and then they have to invest to build their reputation back.
We've got Seagates, Western Digitals, and even some Maxtors. Some of them must be twenty years old. If you protect them from heat and physical shock and power surge the MTBF can be over a century.
--Mike
Yeah, like I said, some of these are 20 years old, and still going. For me, at least, WD have always been reliable, never failed; I have had a few Seagates fail on me (2 or 3?) over the years, a Maxtor (still sitting here), but never Western Digital.
Besides my own experience, too, among geeks whom I know personally, whose advice has always been sound: they all swear by WD. But if Kate or others have good experiences with Seagate, I'll keep it in mind.
Like you say, things change. Whatever the business, they will eventually try to cut corners in order to maximize profits, because raising prices is usually a bad move.
With these new SSD drives, though, I am in uncharted territory. I passed on a much cheaper Samsung, but eventually got a WD 1 TB SSD, which so far (fingers crossed) has performed like a champion.
Bill _______________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt op.org
I have a WD SSD 1tb. It's nearly two years old and still going in one of the laptops.
Kate
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On Thursday 10 September 2020, Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
On Thu September 10 2020 11:19:35 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I always knew that, if Seagate somehow stays in business, then they must have some customers somewhere. You must be the one.
Seagate shipments for 2019 were just ahead of Western Digital shipments with Toshiba trailing well behind.
Over the years it goes in cycles. Manufacturers cut corners until they get a crap reputation and then they have to invest to build their reputation back.
We've got Seagates, Western Digitals, and even some Maxtors. Some of them must be twenty years old. If you protect them from heat and physical shock and power surge the MTBF can be over a century.
--Mike _______________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt op.org
Yeah you're correct about all of that. I have a maxtor 750G that's 18 yo and still going. Always on a surge suppressor, always in a cool dry environment, never moved.
Kate
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-
BorgLabs - Kate Draven -
deloptes
-
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
Mike Bird -
William Morder -
William Morder via trinity-users