Hi everyone, so far donations to the TDE project have always ended up to Tim. Although he is the founder of the project, he has not really been involved in the daily matters and development for several years. In the past there has been talks to establish a non-profit TDE organization, but this has yet to happen.
With release R14.1.0 coming soon, I would like to propose for donations to be temporarily redirected to Slavek, till the TDE non profit organization is established. Once the organization comes to birth, the amount of donations can be transferred over to it. A transparent public account of donations could be setup, so everyone would be free to see how donations would be used. If Slavek needed to pay additional taxes due to the temporary donation income, I suggest those would be paid out of the donations themselves.
What is your opinion? There is about a month before R14.1.0 is released, so it would probably leave just enough time to prepare the new setup.
Cheers Michele
On Wednesday 22 March 2023 06:30:35 Michele Calgaro via tde-users wrote:
Hi everyone, so far donations to the TDE project have always ended up to Tim. Although he is the founder of the project, he has not really been involved in the daily matters and development for several years. In the past there has been talks to establish a non-profit TDE organization, but this has yet to happen.
With release R14.1.0 coming soon, I would like to propose for donations to be temporarily redirected to Slavek, till the TDE non profit organization is established. Once the organization comes to birth, the amount of donations can be transferred over to it. A transparent public account of donations could be setup, so everyone would be free to see how donations would be used. If Slavek needed to pay additional taxes due to the temporary donation income, I suggest those would be paid out of the donations themselves.
What is your opinion? There is about a month before R14.1.0 is released, so it would probably leave just enough time to prepare the new setup.
Cheers Michele
I have been wanting to donate a little money now and then, when I have some extra. I am not an especially charitable person, except for a few special projects, and TDE is one of them, because of course I would like to continue using this desktop. Otherwise, I get frustrated (and usually enraged) after trying to use some other desktop.
The problem is, PayPal doesn't seem to like me, and I have never been able to use it for anything, ever, in about 20 years. I would be glad to send a bank draft, or put something on my credit card, and even if it goes into Slavek's own pocket for awhile (until we get this non-profit thing sorted out), I figure that he has worked hard at this for a long time, so it's not a big deal for me.
In the long run, though, that would not be a good idea, so we ought to get those details straight. If we get sloppy about these things, it may come back to haunt us later.
Every time this question has come up for discussion, though, it ends up unresolved, because we cannot come to a consensus about just where the non-profit ought to be established; meaning, in where? The whole world is going insane (more than usual), and we ought to be careful about where we set up our non-profit, because wherever that is, TDE would be subject to the local laws, tax codes, etc.
Bill
On 2023/03/22 10:57 PM, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Every time this question has come up for discussion, though, it ends up unresolved, because we cannot come to a consensus about just where the non-profit ought to be established; meaning, in where? The whole world is going insane (more than usual), and we ought to be careful about where we set up our non-profit, because wherever that is, TDE would be subject to the local laws, tax codes, etc.
Good point Bill. We have some ideas and plans for the non-profit, just need to have a final round of discussions and then if we are in agreement, we need to set out to do it, which is the hardest part :-)
We can restart that discussion after the release of R14.1.0, but for the time being I would like to keep this email thread on the donation restructure, so we can see if there is enough agreement for the proposed change.
Note: whatever goes into donations, will go into the TDE project, not Slavek's. Slavek would serve as the temporary recipient/holder till we have a proper non-profit setup.
Cheers Michele
On Wednesday 22 March 2023 07:20:46 Michele Calgaro via tde-users wrote:
Note: whatever goes into donations, will go into the TDE project, not Slavek's. Slavek would serve as the temporary recipient/holder till we have a proper non-profit setup.
Yes, I understood this point, but I was playing with irony when I probably ought to have kept to the simple literal meaning.
As far as I am concerned, the devs all do a lot of work to keep us running TDE, and in return they only get our thanks, sometimes, if we remember.
We ought to consider not only where we want to establish the non-profit, but also how to keep donations separate from individuals acting on behalf of the organization itself.
Maybe we ought to set up a bank account for TDE? Even if the non-profit itself has not been officially established, I believe that it is possible to set up an account in which to keep those donations. Then, too, it would be easier for persons such as myself to make a donation, as I could just make out a bank draft to Trinity Desktop Development Project (or whatever), and that would allow me to bypass PayPal.
Small businesses (and especially non-profits) are usually a little messy in the beginning, and sometimes the cart gets put before the horse. Setting up a bank account in the name of TDE might be a good start.
Bill
Anno domini 2023 Wed, 22 Mar 23:20:46 +0900 Michele Calgaro via tde-users scripsit:
On 2023/03/22 10:57 PM, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Every time this question has come up for discussion, though, it ends up unresolved, because we cannot come to a consensus about just where the non-profit ought to be established; meaning, in where? The whole world is going insane (more than usual), and we ought to be careful about where we set up our non-profit, because wherever that is, TDE would be subject to the local laws, tax codes, etc.
Good point Bill. We have some ideas and plans for the non-profit, just need to have a final round of discussions and then if we are in agreement, we need to set out to do it, which is the hardest part :-)
We can restart that discussion after the release of R14.1.0, but for the time being I would like to keep this email thread on the donation restructure, so we can see if there is enough agreement for the proposed change.
Note: whatever goes into donations, will go into the TDE project, not Slavek's. Slavek would serve as the temporary recipient/holder till we have a proper non-profit setup.
This makes him officially "Slavek the treasurer" :)
Nik
Cheers Michele
-- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ...
Dne st 22. března 2023 Michele Calgaro via tde-users napsal(a):
On 2023/03/22 10:57 PM, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Every time this question has come up for discussion, though, it ends up unresolved, because we cannot come to a consensus about just where the non-profit ought to be established; meaning, in where? The whole world is going insane (more than usual), and we ought to be careful about where we set up our non-profit, because wherever that is, TDE would be subject to the local laws, tax codes, etc.
Good point Bill. We have some ideas and plans for the non-profit, just need to have a final round of discussions and then if we are in agreement, we need to set out to do it, which is the hardest part :-)
We can restart that discussion after the release of R14.1.0, but for the time being I would like to keep this email thread on the donation restructure, so we can see if there is enough agreement for the proposed change.
Note: whatever goes into donations, will go into the TDE project, not Slavek's. Slavek would serve as the temporary recipient/holder till we have a proper non-profit setup.
Cheers Michele
I will add information:
It is definitely planned to move forward with the creation of a legal person. After being created, it will be possible to create a bank account for a legal entity.
Because the process of creating a legal entity will take some time (I know, now there are tasks on my side), here was the idea that I could, as a temporary solution, to create a separate transparent bank account that will serve to receive donations and pay expenses related to the TDE project. Because it is intended as a transparent account, it will give everyone a good overview of how the funds are handled. Because for now it would be tied to my person, I would have to show it in my tax return. Once a legal entity has been created, the funds of this temporary account will be transferred to a transparent legal entity's account.
So the question is whether to make this temporary solution with an account that will be personal, or to keep it in the current state where donations are unknown and wait for a legal entity and an account created for a legal entity?
Cheers
Anno domini 2023 Wed, 22 Mar 17:19:30 +0100 Slávek Banko via tde-users scripsit:
Dne st 22. března 2023 Michele Calgaro via tde-users napsal(a):
On 2023/03/22 10:57 PM, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Every time this question has come up for discussion, though, it ends up unresolved, because we cannot come to a consensus about just where the non-profit ought to be established; meaning, in where? The whole world is going insane (more than usual), and we ought to be careful about where we set up our non-profit, because wherever that is, TDE would be subject to the local laws, tax codes, etc.
Good point Bill. We have some ideas and plans for the non-profit, just need to have a final round of discussions and then if we are in agreement, we need to set out to do it, which is the hardest part :-)
We can restart that discussion after the release of R14.1.0, but for the time being I would like to keep this email thread on the donation restructure, so we can see if there is enough agreement for the proposed change.
Note: whatever goes into donations, will go into the TDE project, not Slavek's. Slavek would serve as the temporary recipient/holder till we have a proper non-profit setup.
Cheers Michele
I will add information:
It is definitely planned to move forward with the creation of a legal person. After being created, it will be possible to create a bank account for a legal entity.
Because the process of creating a legal entity will take some time (I know, now there are tasks on my side), here was the idea that I could, as a temporary solution, to create a separate transparent bank account that will serve to receive donations and pay expenses related to the TDE project. Because it is intended as a transparent account, it will give everyone a good overview of how the funds are handled. Because for now it would be tied to my person, I would have to show it in my tax return. Once a legal entity has been created, the funds of this temporary account will be transferred to a transparent legal entity's account.
So the question is whether to make this temporary solution with an account that will be personal, or to keep it in the current state where donations are unknown and wait for a legal entity and an account created for a legal entity?
IMO: Create the legal entity first.
Cheers
On 2023/03/23 01:19 AM, Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
So the question is whether to make this temporary solution with an account that will be personal, or to keep it in the current state where donations are unknown and wait for a legal entity and an account created for a legal entity?
In simple terms, currently donations don't really end up to the project, but to Tim. Establishing a new NPO may take some time, so I see no good reason to not using the temporary solution. Donations may be small but every little helps and we could use them to expand the available servers/mirrors/builders and so on. Cheers Michele
On Wednesday 22 March 2023 18:15:13 Michele Calgaro via tde-users wrote:
On 2023/03/23 01:19 AM, Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
So the question is whether to make this temporary solution with an account that will be personal, or to keep it in the current state where donations are unknown and wait for a legal entity and an account created for a legal entity?
In simple terms, currently donations don't really end up to the project, but to Tim. Establishing a new NPO may take some time, so I see no good reason to not using the temporary solution. Donations may be small but every little helps and we could use them to expand the available servers/mirrors/builders and so on. Cheers Michele
I agree. Maybe we could wait until we have the non-profit "officially" set up, but I can see no good reason not to set up some temporary account in order to facilitate what needs to be done next.
If all the current donations were put together, I doubt that it would be enough to buy anything big like a car or a house, but it might be a great help in setting up the non-profit, expanding servers and mirrors, etc.
Bill
On Wednesday 22 March 2023 06:30:35 Michele Calgaro via tde-users wrote:
In the past there has been talks to establish a non-profit TDE organization, but this has yet to happen.
With release R14.1.0 coming soon, I would like to propose for donations to be temporarily redirected to Slavek, till the TDE non profit organization is established.
Sounds good.
If Slavek needed to pay additional taxes due to the temporary donation income, I suggest those would be paid out of the donations themselves.
That could be done, but most tax codes have a 'transfer payee' mechanism, so all Slávek probably has to do is find a CPA who’s familiar with that part of the tax code and follow the instructions. (I’ve done this with USA C corporations, but that’s not really relevant for a non-profit setup who knows where.)
What is your opinion? There is about a month before R14.1.0 is released, so it would probably leave just enough time to prepare the new setup.
Switching the donation button to Slávek? Sure.
Personally as someone who didn't know they were donating to Tim... I would prefer the money be sent to Slavek as long as they were transparent about the use of the money. (please no Manjaro buying gaming laptops for buddies things)
I have been using Trinity DE for a while now, defending it to Plasma 5 users, and I would like to say thank you to all working on the project. I have a low income, so although I cant contribute much of my Canadian Loonies, I would still like to support the project.
Hello everyone,
On Wednesday 22 March 2023 14:30:35 Michele Calgaro via tde-users wrote:
What is your opinion?
Sounds good to me, just please do not make a mistake like Gitea I read about recently. It is really saddenig that by human error some individuals could take over entire project.
Cheers,
On 3/22/23 8:30 AM, Michele Calgaro via tde-users wrote:
What is your opinion? There is about a month before R14.1.0 is released, so it would probably leave just enough time to prepare the new setup.
Might be of some interest:
Interview: the FreeCAD Project Association https://lwn.net/Articles/924953/
Two points of interest:
* Forming the association took about a year. * Formal bylaws were written.
Also of note is mentioning "umbrella" organizations rather than creating a separate NPO from scratch.
Just wanted to chime in and say that I'm all for setting up a better structure and moving the donations to those actually doing the work nowadays...while I still use TDE pretty much exclusively, I just haven't had time to hack on it unfortuantely. That may change later this year, but even then my efforts would be more focused on better Kerberos support and other enterprise-level features.
Be warned though that there isn't much coming in on the donation channel. It isn't even paying for the DNS at this point.
On a related note, we should probably get a sponsors section up, since I think there are at least two corporate sponsors of hardware / cloud services right now? That may be a better long-term path than just donations, in fact Raptor itself may have some sponsorship opportunities for specific features in the short term...
----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrell Anderson via tde-users" users@trinitydesktop.org To: users@trinitydesktop.org Cc: "Darrell Anderson" darrella@clovermail.net Sent: Friday, March 24, 2023 3:52:48 PM Subject: [tde-users] Re: Restructuring TDE donations - opinions wanted
On 3/22/23 8:30 AM, Michele Calgaro via tde-users wrote:
What is your opinion? There is about a month before R14.1.0 is released, so it would probably leave just enough time to prepare the new setup.
Might be of some interest:
Interview: the FreeCAD Project Association https://lwn.net/Articles/924953/
Two points of interest:
* Forming the association took about a year. * Formal bylaws were written.
Also of note is mentioning "umbrella" organizations rather than creating a separate NPO from scratch. ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
On Friday 24 March 2023 08:30:18 pm Timothy Pearson via tde-users wrote:
Welcome back Tim, glad to see you're alive. We've missed you!
Best, Michael
FreeCAD is a good example, article has lots of info.
My first choice would be to create the biz structure first.
Since this issue has been around a while, I am all for transferring the donate button link to Slavek. Can not help the project now, not volunteering:-), TDE needs an easy first step to get "stuff" happening.
GregM
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