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Re: [trinity-users] Kmenu Reasoning Explained part 100,482
by Baron 25 Jan '11

25 Jan '11

On Monday 24 January 2011 14:01:10 Katheryne Draven wrote: > With regard to "mytools", it smacks too much as a homage to MS, with > its "My this" and "My that", but in the end its not my decision. Its > clearly something Trinity as a whole must make. I do urge against the > use of MS terminology. I understand the belief that if its familiar, > it will make the use more comfortable. That, however, has not been my > eXPerience :). Users who leave windows for Linux cringe when they see > references to it. They're finally free of their master, why would > they wish to build a shrine to it? The use of MS terms, also > reinforces the belief that Linux is just a second rate Windos > wannabe. > > OH BLAST! Where did this soapbox come from??!! > > > Kate I and I suspect many others will agree with you ! However sensible naming should improve clarity. -- Best Regards: Baron.

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Re: [trinity-users] Kmenu Reasoning Explained part 100,482
by Katheryne Draven 25 Jan '11

25 Jan '11

On 1/23/11, David C. Rankin <drankinatty(a)suddenlinkmail.com> wrote: > On 01/22/2011 04:48 PM, Katheryne Draven wrote: >> As requested by some people (Xu_R AKA The Old Man) an odt and pdf of >> the reasoning behind my kmenu setup. >> >> I would appreciate any input to improve the setup. >> >> Thanks >> >> Kate >> > > Thank you Kate! > > I generally spend a couple of hours sorting apps into their logical places > when > I start with a fresh install. Standardizing kmenu into a logical order > limiting > each menu/submenu entry to ~ 10-15 items with a max depth of ~4 is much > needed. > Here are two thoughts for consideration: > > (1) of the existing distros that did a good job with kmenu, SuSE's inclusion > of > a 'Utilities' submenu that held all the kde apps really helped with > organization. Here is a shot of what I adapted from an old openSuSE 11.0 > install: > > [93k] > http://www.3111skyline.com/dl/dt/trinity/ss/kmenu-utilities.jpg > > (2) everybody also has a subset of applications they use most frequently. > What I > call "mytools" or I guess what "User-Apps" is intended for in your setup. > For > what it is worth, here is a shot of the collection of mytools that may have > a > submenu or two that may be of interest: > > [138k] > http://www.3111skyline.com/dl/dt/trinity/ss/kmenu-mytools.jpg > > (I don't know how the duplicate basket entries got there. On suse, when you > edit > the gnome menu, you often get unwanted side-effects in the k3 menu as well) > > I think this effort to tame the kmenu jungle is well worth the time and I > thank > you for your efforts. > > -- > David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. > Rankin Law Firm, PLLC > 510 Ochiltree Street > Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 > Telephone: (936) 715-9333 > Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 > www.rankinlawfirm.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net > For additional commands, e-mail: > trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net > Read list messsages on the Web archive: > http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ > Please remember not to top-post: > http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting > > Thank you David All of this (your input and images) is very useful. I did have a Utilities menu, but I had trouble figuring out what should go in there. What constituted "system" and "utility" apps (or tools perhaps?). I do the same thing (reorganizing the kmenu), and its something I noticed my users doing as well. When 108 different people start fiddling about with kmenu I asked why. The usual answers were, "its out of order", "nothing is where its supposed to be", or "it doesn't make sense the way it is. They all thought it was a defect like the kind they experienced when using windows (adding an item to the startmenu throws everything off). When I asked them for a mockup of what they thought it should be like, what made sense to them, I got the basic of what we have here. Looking at SuSe, it seems they did a similar study or someting. I think we need to focus first on the parent directories (Office or Desktop Publishing, Tools, Utilities, etc etc) then work on the subdirectories. I think the apps should help us determine what subdirectories are needed. I urge the use of proper computer terminology, avoiding the use of "MS Terms". We should mean to education as well, after all knowledge is freedom (among other good things). With regard to "mytools", it smacks too much as a homage to MS, with its "My this" and "My that", but in the end its not my decision. Its clearly something Trinity as a whole must make. I do urge against the use of MS terminology. I understand the belief that if its familiar, it will make the use more comfortable. That, however, has not been my eXPerience :). Users who leave windows for Linux cringe when they see references to it. They're finally free of their master, why would they wish to build a shrine to it? The use of MS terms, also reinforces the belief that Linux is just a second rate Windos wannabe. OH BLAST! Where did this soapbox come from??!! Kate

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The Kmenu Saga Vol 00
by Katheryne Draven 24 Jan '11

24 Jan '11

Wow. A lot to read so I'm start a new thread sort of. Everyone makes valid points for the most part. What we need to find, is which ones apply to us. Who are we recreating this late-great desktop environment (DE) for? I suggest, for now, its for the loyal kde3 users. For true and current gnu-linux users. I am not, in any sense, discounting those who will come, but they will come because of what we build now. So let's make it a good one (DE). Its illogical to design something for someone isn't currently using it. It is logical to design something for those who are. So I suggest we focus on them. David C. Rankin wrote "I agree with just "Documents". If you don't know who's documents are on your box, you have more issues to worry about :p" - Well David (if it was you who wrote this) I can see you and I are existentialists. I can't agree more. We cannot cater to those who cannot/will not learn or simple use their mind. Think about it this way, can you create a DE for someone who doesn't want to use your DE? David was also labouring to find something better than Office, that's a hard one. Productivity, DTP, this one is going to be a killer. However putting graphics under media, I disagree with because, whilst they overlap to a degree, media or multimedia has traditionally been the domain of Audio Video. John A. Sullivan III wrote "People have businesses to run and could care less about educating themselves (rightfully)." - I've never met a successful business person who didn't what to know how it all works, considering its how money is made. I have business client, all of which have wanted to see what's under the hood. Once again, We cannot cater to those who cannot/will not learn or simple use their mind. Its simply impossible to crater to those who do not think. Think about it, how can you build something for someone that doesn't care? A person like this, is never happy. Oliver Kullmann wrote "I think the KDE 3 -> KDE 4 disaster has much to do with a kind of take-over by ms-centric thinking. Sure, hard to quantify, but with KDE 3 I always had the feeling it moves in principle into the right direction, while with KDE 4 this basic trust is completely lost (on a daily basic --- I have to use it under various circumstances)." - I agree. Currently kde4 seems to be in competition with MS, who oddly enough has stolen things from kde (check out their open/save dialog which now has a kde like side bar). Competition is a waste of time, let's just focus on doing a good job. John A. Sullivan III "I would like to politely disagree while admitting that many others on the list may be better qualified than I to address this issue. However, my impression of why KDE4 has been such a problem has not been the MS imitation but their prioritization of developer interests over user interests" - Its true, they are in compentition with MS, and its true, they are serving their interests over those of the users. I have dealt directly with KDE4 devels over the last year until I just couldn't anymore. David C. Rankin - Your suggests are right on track and have given me much to think about. Poor, overworked Tim wrote "Well, I do want to convey to the user that the Documents folder is unique to his or her profile, unlike the other shortcuts which point to shared system resources that are identical across all profiles. Personally I like "My Documents", but other alternatives could be "Personal Documents", "Personal Files" or similar. - Isn't it possible to create a script that would read the user's login name and create a direct such as "Tim's User File" which would contain everything in its own net subdirectories (Documents, Spreedsheets, Homework (for those still in skool), Photos etc). My people just a directory called User-Files, or rename it later on. I also, whole-heartedly, agree with Lisi in that if a language is to be used, such as English, then it should be used correctly. The same should go for computer terms. Felix Miata wrote "Try a librarian hat and think about cataloging, file drawers and shelving. Does that help?" - yes it does help and its what I've been trying to do. I apoligize for the length of the email but I thougt it wise to start a new one, than add to the already lengthy one. I've always believed order comes from chaos, so I think we are making progress. Kate

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KdeSudo exiting
by Luciano ES 23 Jan '11

23 Jan '11

Sometimes I boot my machine and, right after KDE has started, I get this error message popup: Information - KdeSudo No command arguments supplied! Usage: kdesudo [-u <runas>] <command> KdeSudo will now exit... Anybody else been experiencing this? Not a problem to me, I haven't noticed lack or malfunctioning of anything. I don't think I ever use this KdeSudo thing, though. I just got the error then tried running Kuser as root (Run Command > Options > Run as a different user > root), and it worked. Shrug. -- Luciano ES >>

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svn update error: Failed to add file 'dependencies/tqtinterface/qtinterface/private/tqeffects_p.h'
by David C. Rankin 22 Jan '11

22 Jan '11

Guys, I just got the following error during 'svn up *' At revision 1216401. svn: Failed to add file 'dependencies/tqtinterface/qtinterface/private/tqeffects_p.h': an unversioned file of the same name already exists -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com

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compiling kdebase multiple errors
by Jay 22 Jan '11

22 Jan '11

I am compiling kde-3.5.12 in a slackware 13 environment with no previous KDE. I have installed everything with --prefix=/usr including qt3, tqtinterface, arts & kdelibs After patching qt3 i have compiled tqtinterface, arts and kdelibs without error however compiling kdebase gives multiple errors. The file index.cache.bz2 is missing for all folders in doc. Instead of just creating the file (touch index.cache.bz2) i removed all directories in kdebase/doc (won't need them anyway) and that got me through. The next error was shutdowndlg.cpp:83:39: error: cannot call constructor 'QImage::QImage' directly shutdowndlg.cpp:83:39: error: for a function-style cast, remove the redundant '::QImage' Removing the ::QImage from the function allowed compilation to continue. krandrbindings.cpp:31:2: error: cannot call constructor 'KShortcut::KShortcut' directly krandrbindings.cpp:31:2: error: for a function-style cast, remove the redundant '::KShortcut' Again removing the direct call allowed me to continue. The next one is where i am stuck and not sure how to proceed. iccconfig.cpp:148:6: warning: unused variable 'i' iccconfig.cpp:149:12: warning: unused variable 'iccFileArrayNew' I tried removing the unused variables but i get a slew of these errors with the randr section. So far i have downgraded make, autoconf and automake to slack 12.2 versions and they have worked ok up until now. I am also not using the -j switch during compilation depsite using quad core processor. Can anyone advise what i may be missing or what i have done wrong? Kind Regards, Jay

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Debian upgrade
by Brad Alexander 22 Jan '11

22 Jan '11

Since my wife prefers kde3 to kde4, I have kept lenny on her machine. Fortunately, with the upgrade to squeeze imminent, I found trinity. The install in lenny was smooth, but then I changed my apt.conf to point to testing and changed the trinity.list to point to , and if I do an apt-get dist-upgrade, it wants to deinstall all of trinity. aptitude full-upgrade spits out pages and pages of dependency problems, things which I would think would be upgraded in a dist- (or full-) upgrade. What is the proper path to upgrading a Debian box with trinity installed? I would like to get at least to testing, but would really prefer getting to sid, if trinity from squeeze will run there. Thanks, --b

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uic-tqt when compiling arts
by Jay 21 Jan '11

21 Jan '11

I am compiling in slackware 13.1 with no KDE. I have compiled the following successfully: qt-3.3.b qca-1 qca-tls poppler dbus-qt3 dbus-python tqtinterface-3.5.12 compiles without error. Compiling arts-3.5.12 stops at a 'not found' error for uic-tqt I linked uic-tqt to uic and it now stops at: /opt/kde3/lib/qt3/bin/moc ./qiomanager_p.h qiomanager_p.moc Qt meta object compiler moc: Too many input files specified I also saw it looking for moc-tqt which was not found. I thought moc-tqt was for qt4. How can i get passed the above error? Jay

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Getting Started - HowToBuild - need a bit of help.
by David C. Rankin 21 Jan '11

21 Jan '11

Tim, all, As expressed in my email to Tim, my goal is to build trinity (from svn) for Arch Linux to replace the old Chakra project kdemod3. (which is no longer supported or available) I'm very proficient in Linux, but I SUCK with cmake. It might as well be Greek. I've been through: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/Developers/HowToBuild and I've stumbled across the linuxquestions.org thread stating you must remove all existing kde3 installs before building trinity. (Tim this seems to answer my question whether I can do a parallel install of trinity in /opt/trinity and keep my existing /opt/kde) So do I really have to nuke my existing kde3 install prior to building trinity? (assuming yes from the following link) http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/trinity-kde-3-5-12-a-8… This is where I hit my first roadblock. (Issue #1) Arch Linux provides python2-sip and pyqt3, but not pykde. I've downloaded and written an Arch PKGBUILD script to build the PyKDE-3.16.7 package for Arch. (see: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=881478#p881478) However building pykde requires dcopobject.h. Trinity provides: trinity/kdebindings/dcopc/dcopobject.h trinity/kdelibs/dcop/dcopobject.h (of which the kdelibs dcopobject.h looks correct) However, to build pykde, I have to provide reference to the installed kde3 base (-k /opt/kde) to get it to build: python2 configure.py \ -d /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages \ -v /usr/share/sip -k /opt/kde which builds fine, but the linuxquestion.org thread says if you build against the existing 3.5.10 dcopobject.h you will have build failures later on. So what's the trick to get pykde to compile using the dcopobject.h from svn? (Issue #2) How in the heck to I choose QT3 to get tqtinterface to build? I know this is a simple switch issue or environment issue, but I've googled and have just managed to broaden my confusion. This is my cmake shortcoming. When I attempt the build, I get: 11:49 archangel:/tmp/dependencies/tqtinterface> cmake ./ CMake Error at cmake/modules/TDEMacros.cmake:20 (message): ################################################# You must select a Qt version ################################################# Call Stack (most recent call first): CMakeLists.txt:46 (tde_message_fatal) -- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred! The error is obvious, I need to tell it which Qt version to use, but obviously I'm too stupid to figure out where or how. Can somebody help a brother out here and help lift the veil of confusion I'm suffering from here? Also, I've started a build script to automate the trinity build after I get the dependencies built. Basically to automate the libtool.m4.in, ltmain.sh and make -f setup and then provide correct ./configure options that --enable-closure when required based on the module name. The the plan is simply to build trinity in the order specified in the HowToBuild from a static list or array. Before I reinvent the wheel, does anything like this exist? Also, the wiki is a bit sparse. If anyone has more detailed notes squirreled away on the build process or how to setup a better build environment/chroot/whatever, if you will make that information available, I'll commit to adding it to the wiki (with proper attribution of course) For anyone interested, I have started the build script and have it functional up to the point of adding the ordered list to build each module. (currently it is just a concept that outputs what it will do without actually doing anything). Basic use is: sh bldtrinity.sh [ path/to/your/trinitysvn path/to/libtool.m4 path/to/ltmain.sh ] my defaults [Arch locations]: trindir=${1:-/home/david/arch/pkg/trinity} syslibtool=${2:-/usr/share/aclocal/libtool.m4} sysltmain=${3:-/usr/share/libtool/config/ltmain.sh} The beginnings of the script are at: http://www.3111skyline.com/dl/dt/trinity/scr/bldtrinity.sh I welcome any suggestions or comments. Thanks. I look forward to this project. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com

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So that we never have to have this discussion again...
by Robert Xu 20 Jan '11

20 Jan '11

Firefox users: Download Greasemonkey (latest is v 0.9) https://github.com/downloads/greasemonkey/greasemonkey/greasemonkey-0.9.0.x… Then use this script to force Gmail to bottom post: http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/35866 Chrome users: Download the extension: http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/35866 It should recognize it and install. Now you people have no excuse to top post ;) -- later, Robert Xu

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