Hello all,
As I allready mentioned, I am using MX-Linux at school. I have now installed it on my laptop because it's the only Debian-based distribution I've found where Gnome-Display-Networks is working - which let's me connect my machine with a Microsoft Wireless dongle.
To stop any discussion: no, I won't use Ubuntu or Mint, so I haven't tested those.
I have installed Trinity on MX and it works well, with one glitch:
- If I use TDM (dpkg-reconfigure tdm-trinity) there seem to be some problem at shutdown, wich leads to - sometime, not always - a failure of X to start at boot (I did not write down the message but it's something about a Plymouth failure). If I log in (cli) and then start X it works.
- If I use lightdm there is no problem (except the less friendly greeter).
From all this, I have concluded that the problem is linked to the use of Trinity's login screen. While I can live with lightdm, does anyone understand what the problem with plymouth is, and/or if it's possible to get TDM's greeter without plymouth? I seem to remember a time where plymouth had to be installed only for some versions of the greeter - maybe I'm wrong.
Thierry
Thierry de Coulon wrote:
- If I use TDM (dpkg-reconfigure tdm-trinity) there seem to be some
problem at shutdown, wich leads to - sometime, not always - a failure of X to start at boot (I did not write down the message but it's something about a Plymouth failure). If I log in (cli) and then start X it works.
- If I use lightdm there is no problem (except the less friendly greeter).
better check and share the relevant output from the log files (tdm.log, Xorg.0.log)
From all this, I have concluded that the problem is linked to the use of Trinity's login screen. While I can live with lightdm, does anyone understand what the problem with plymouth is, and/or if it's possible to get TDM's greeter without plymouth? I seem to remember a time where plymouth had to be installed only for some versions of the greeter - maybe I'm wrong.
actually plymouth does not have anything to do with tdm. So you can remove plymouth without impacting tdm.
Some time ago there were issues when plymouth did not finish starting properly and tdm (and other services) are waiting for it to finish.
Hard to say what is exactly going on in your case. I booted with plymouth and tdm yesterday without issue.
BR
On Friday 16 December 2022 15.27:32 deloptes wrote:
actually plymouth does not have anything to do with tdm. So you can remove plymouth without impacting tdm.
Maybe, but the problem occurs when I use TDM but not when I use lightdm.
I'll make a backup, then remove plymouth and look what happens.
Thierry
On Friday 16 December 2022 11:15:15 Thierry de Coulon wrote:
On Friday 16 December 2022 15.27:32 deloptes wrote:
actually plymouth does not have anything to do with tdm. So you can remove plymouth without impacting tdm.
Maybe, but the problem occurs when I use TDM but not when I use lightdm.
I'll make a backup, then remove plymouth and look what happens.
Thierry
Just for the heck of it, I ran apt-get purge plymouth, and it's not there. To the best of my knowledge, I have never had it installed, and I always use tdm without issues.
I have tried both MX-Linux and AntiX; I don't currently run them, though I do run Devuan, which is pretty similar. There are some MX-Linux users here on the Trinity list, and maybe they could probably tell you more. But there seems to be no real need to keep it.
Bill
On Friday 16 December 2022 01:31:04 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Friday 16 December 2022 11:15:15 Thierry de Coulon wrote:
On Friday 16 December 2022 15.27:32 deloptes wrote:
actually plymouth does not have anything to do with tdm. So you can remove plymouth without impacting tdm.
Maybe, but the problem occurs when I use TDM but not when I use lightdm.
I'll make a backup, then remove plymouth and look what happens.
Thierry
Just for the heck of it, I ran apt-get purge plymouth, and it's not there. To the best of my knowledge, I have never had it installed, and I always use tdm without issues.
I have tried both MX-Linux and AntiX; I don't currently run them, though I do run Devuan, which is pretty similar. There are some MX-Linux users here on the Trinity list, and maybe they could probably tell you more. But there seems to be no real need to keep it.
Distro: MX-19.4_x64
I've never had the issue. I seem to have it installed, but it's not running?
michael@local [~]# which plymouth /usr/bin/plymouth michael@local [~]# pgrep plymouth michael@local [~]#
hth, Michael
On Friday 16 December 2022 20.52:04 Michael wrote:
Distro: MX-19.4_x64
I've never had the issue. I seem to have it installed, but it's not running?
Thank you all. Following your suggestions, I've backed-up everything, then removed plymouth - so far everything is running fine. I notice the computer shuts down more cleanly (and I can follow whats going on :).
So whatever MX-Linux 21 was using plymouth for, it seems it was was nothing important.
Thierry
Anno domini 2022 Fri, 16 Dec 22:01:58 +0100 Thierry de Coulon scripsit:
[,,] So whatever MX-Linux 21 was using plymouth for, it seems it was was nothing important.
It's just "eye candy" - well, I don't see the point to hide 3 seconds of kernel boot messages.
Nik.
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Dr. Nikolaus Klepp composed on 2022-12-17 08:25 (UTC+0100):
It's just "eye candy" - well, I don't see the point to hide 3 seconds of kernel boot messages.
I don't think it was so much a need to hide messages as some bored programmer's decision that the widely reported slight screen flicker that may occur during screen mode switches appearing between Grub and the final resolution/mode engagement for X was a problem in need of eradication. It's bloatware.
# zypper in --recommends plymouth Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... Resolving package dependencies...
The following package is recommended, but will not be installed due to conflicts or dependency issues: plymouth-lang
The following 12 NEW packages are going to be installed: libply-boot-client5 libply-splash-core5 libply-splash-graphics5 libply5 plymouth plymouth-branding-openSUSE plymouth-dracut plymouth-plugin-label plymouth-plugin-two-step plymouth-scripts plymouth-theme-bgrt plymouth-theme-spinner
12 new packages to install. Overall download size: 841.8 KiB. Already cached: 0 B. After the operation, additional 911.0 KiB will be used. Continue? [y/n/v/...? shows all options] (y): n
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
On Friday 16 December 2022, William Morder via tde-users was heard to say:
Just for the heck of it, I ran apt-get purge plymouth, and it's not there. To the best of my knowledge, I have never had it installed, and I always use tdm without issues.
Plymouth is installed by default when doing a Debian desktop install. I get rid of it right away as useless, avoiding just such issues I had in the past as well.
Plymouth provides no functionality I can discern. Delete it with confidence.
Curt-
- -- You may my glories and my state dispose, But not my griefs; still am I king of those. --- William Shakespeare, "Richard II"
On Friday 16 December 2022 22.50:07 deloptes wrote:
well - it is about esthetics - much nicer. It is better to find the root cause and solve it, but agreed it is safe to remove it and try if it solves the issue.
The "esthetics" are limited to replacing text messages by a dark screen with a coloured bar to let you wait for the boot (or the shutdown) to finish.
Thierry
Thierry de Coulon wrote:
The "esthetics" are limited to replacing text messages by a dark screen with a coloured bar to let you wait for the boot (or the shutdown) to finish.
It is not that simple, but TBH you most probably are not interested in the boot messages (especially on desktop or notebook). You can press the ESC button and you see the console. I personally think it is a very nice feature. I even configured background, font and field size etc in a custom template, so the PC has a kind of identity/face when it starts the boot screen, the progress bar and password field for the encrypted disk. It feels modern - 21st century. Don't you think so?
If there is something not working, then this is most probably not plymouth. For example why would you wait on boot or shutdown? Why is X not starting - no logs - no talks :)
Thierry de Coulon composed on 2022-12-16 13:14 (UTC+0100): ... Plymouth is bloatware, designed to make the boot process look like Windows instead of displaying the kernel's error and normal boot messages. I use several distros. On those that allow customized installation, I disallow its installation. On any that force its installation, I force its removal on first boot. Which method I used for MX I don't remember.
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Curt Howland -
deloptes -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
Felix Miata -
Michael -
Thierry de Coulon -
William Morder