I am filing bugs for features missing from KDE 4 that were present in KDE 3. Please send to me the features that are missing for _you_ so that we can get them in future versions of KDE 4. Thanks!
You can contact me off-list if you prefer.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 5:41 AM, Dotan Cohen dotancohen@gmail.com wrote:
I am filing bugs for features missing from KDE 4 that were present in KDE 3. Please send to me the features that are missing for _you_ so that we can get them in future versions of KDE 4. Thanks!
My favorite feature from KDE 3.5 is the ability to put the application menu at the top of the window like in MacOS. AFAIK that has not been implemented in 4.0, yet.
Michael
My favorite feature from KDE 3.5 is the ability to put the application menu at the top of the window like in MacOS. AFAIK that has not been implemented in 4.0, yet.
Here is the bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153027
It needs testing, if you could do that it would help get it out the door faster.
I am filing bugs for features missing from KDE 4 that were present in KDE 3. Please send to me the features that are missing for _you_ so that we can get them in future versions of KDE 4. Thanks!
You can contact me off-list if you prefer.
-- Dotan Cohen
Hmm...where do I start? ;-)
1. I want to be able to bring up a configuration dialog for *all* of the Desktop and Taskbar settings by right-clicking on the taskbar. All I get when I do that now is a less than helpful stripped down (and ugly) bar with a couple of settings on it. 2. A way to shut down plasma, or at least the UI portion of it. Yes, I know many people love the plasma interface, but many people hate it as well. When I say get rid of it, I mean that ugly "cashew" too (I think you can remove the "cashew" in in KDE4.3 now, but you couldn't for quite a while). 3. A way to easily create a new theme--in KDE3, you could do almost anything with the colors, level of desired effects, etc. 4. Bring back the good old kcontrol--style interface!! My idea of a good time is *not* clicking on icons, only to find that what I wanted was not in that view and having to click back a couple of times before being able to click on a different icon, which still does not contain the desired settings...you get the point. KDE3's reliance on tree views was wonderful from a productivity standpoint, and I hate to see that element largely missing in KDE4. 5. I want desktop previews in the pagers. This is a very useful feature that I sorely miss in KDE4. 6. Bring back the old clock, the one where I could have it display the time, in bold, next to the full date, unbolded. I really, really hate the overall rounded, bulbous look of KDE4, and wish there was an "un-Fisher-Price-it" setting that would streamline the interface and make it sleek again. That means no stacked text in the Taskbar, smaller icons on the Desktop, getting rid of those huge blobs called the play, pause, FF, and rewind buttons in Amarok, etc. Not everyone has or can afford QXGA monitors! 7. Most of all, bring back the overall configurability, and bring back useful context menus! See my complaint in #4; that applies to almost all elements of the KDE4 inerface. It is NOT FUN to have to click multiple time to perform a task that you should have performed in one click under KDE3.
There are more, but I'm going to see if these get fixed first. Please don't take this list as an insult; these are some of my major issues with KDE4, and actually, the "new" desktop overall--a lot of these complaints apply to Vista and Mac OSX as well. KDE3 was like a fresh breeze to me compared with those other two.
Thanks for the offer to file the bugs!
Tim
1. The ability to use two panels on the bottom of the screen, one on top of the other.
2. The "Run Command" plasma applet should be fixed up a little to start working better as a panel applet.
3. A feature to make the panels gray instead of black.
Those would be very great. I haven't been able to duplicate the first two together in any DE except KDE 3. -maybeway36
- The ability to use two panels on the bottom of the screen, one on
top of the other.
Filed it. Please add a screenshot of your KDE 3 setup to bolster the bug a bit: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=190472
- The "Run Command" plasma applet should be fixed up a little to
start working better as a panel applet.
Please be a lot more specific. Assume that I have no idea what you are talking about :) You can send me a screenshot if it helps.
- A feature to make the panels gray instead of black.
You can change the theme to a different colour. In fact, the panels have not been black since KDE 4.0.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Dotan Cohen dotancohen@gmail.com wrote:
- The "Run Command" plasma applet should be fixed up a little to
start working better as a panel applet.
Please be a lot more specific. Assume that I have no idea what you are talking about :) You can send me a screenshot if it helps.
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6594/snapshot1dx3.png The Run Command box is the one on top, between Amarok and the system tray. I'll post it to the bug report.
- The "Run Command" plasma applet should be fixed up a little to
start working better as a panel applet.
Please be a lot more specific. Assume that I have no idea what you are talking about :) You can send me a screenshot if it helps.
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6594/snapshot1dx3.png The Run Command box is the one on top, between Amarok and the system tray. I'll post it to the bug report.
Thanks. What I meant to ask is what needs to be fixed up? Why does it not work well as a panel applet?
I actually could not find the Run Command plasmoid (yes, that's what they are called now) for KDE 4. Maybe Kubuntu does not package it, I will see from where else I could get it.
- The "Run Command" plasma applet should be fixed up a little to
start working better as a panel applet.
Has this issue been resolved for you? I asked for more info earlier, but did not hear back from you.
Hmm...where do I start? ;-)
I know, there's a long list!
- I want to be able to bring up a configuration dialog for *all* of the
Desktop and Taskbar settings by right-clicking on the taskbar. All I get when I do that now is a less than helpful stripped down (and ugly) bar with a couple of settings on it.
That is not so much of a bug or missing feature as a personal preference. However, I do share your preference and I hate the current unintuitive and unusable panel configuration. I asked for a KDE3-style configuration dialog in this bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165196
If you can be _very_ specific as to which options (just list them all if you must) you would like in a single dialog, I will review it and file the feature request.
- A way to shut down plasma, or at least the UI portion of it. Yes, I
know many people love the plasma interface, but many people hate it as well. When I say get rid of it, I mean that ugly "cashew" too (I think you can remove the "cashew" in in KDE4.3 now, but you couldn't for quite a while).
Well, Plasma _is_ the desktop and panel. What would you have left? Specifically, what don't you like (other than the cashew)?
- A way to easily create a new theme--in KDE3, you could do almost
anything with the colors, level of desired effects, etc.
You can create themes in KDE 4. Be specific as to what is different from KDE 3 and how that affects you. I am unfamiliar with the theme making process, so be explicit.
- Bring back the good old kcontrol--style interface!! My idea of a good
time is *not* clicking on icons, only to find that what I wanted was not in that view and having to click back a couple of times before being able to click on a different icon, which still does not contain the desired settings...you get the point. KDE3's reliance on tree views was wonderful from a productivity standpoint, and I hate to see that element largely missing in KDE4.
I'll file that, and post the bug soon.
- I want desktop previews in the pagers. This is a very useful feature
that I sorely miss in KDE4.
I think that this is available in KDE 4.2, no?
- Bring back the old clock, the one where I could have it display the
time, in bold, next to the full date, unbolded.
Might this be the bug that you are looking for? https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=185447
I really, really hate the overall rounded, bulbous look of KDE4, and wish there was an "un-Fisher-Price-it" setting that would streamline the interface and make it sleek again. That means no stacked text in the Taskbar, smaller icons on the Desktop, getting rid of those huge blobs called the play, pause, FF, and rewind buttons in Amarok, etc. Not everyone has or can afford QXGA monitors!
You can set a more space efficient widget style in System Settings -> Appearance -> Style. As for the Amarok Icons we can file a new bug. Send to me a screenshot of Amarok on your monitor. Thanks.
- Most of all, bring back the overall configurability, and bring back
useful context menus! See my complaint in #4; that applies to almost all elements of the KDE4 inerface. It is NOT FUN to have to click multiple time to perform a task that you should have performed in one click under KDE3.
That's what I am trying to do! But I need _specifics_, not a request for "overall".
There are more, but I'm going to see if these get fixed first. Please don't take this list as an insult; these are some of my major issues with KDE4, and actually, the "new" desktop overall--a lot of these complaints apply to Vista and Mac OSX as well. KDE3 was like a fresh breeze to me compared with those other two.
Keep them coming! Thanks!
Thanks for the offer to file the bugs!
It's for the both of us.
- Bring back the good old kcontrol--style interface!! My idea of a good
time is *not* clicking on icons, only to find that what I wanted was not in that view and having to click back a couple of times before being able to click on a different icon, which still does not contain the desired settings...you get the point. KDE3's reliance on tree views was wonderful from a productivity standpoint, and I hate to see that element largely missing in KDE4.
I'll file that, and post the bug soon.
This bug report already exists: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153556
Regards, Stefan
- Bring back the good old kcontrol--style interface!! My idea of a good
time is *not* clicking on icons, only to find that what I wanted was not in that view and having to click back a couple of times before being able to click on a different icon, which still does not contain the desired settings...you get the point. KDE3's reliance on tree views was wonderful from a productivity standpoint, and I hate to see that element largely missing in KDE4.
I'll file that, and post the bug soon.
This bug report already exists: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153556
Thanks, I updated the title of the bug to reflect it's nature.
Dotan Cohen skrev:
I am filing bugs for features missing from KDE 4 that were present in KDE 3. Please send to me the features that are missing for _you_ so that we can get them in future versions of KDE 4. Thanks!
You can contact me off-list if you prefer.
1: the domino widget style. 2: in akregator ,option to show number of unread posts after chanel name as akregator 1.2.9(kde 3.5* version) and liferea, - thus hide the column of unread posts. -reason for why: to save space when using the combined view(3 vertical vindow view) , - and that gives you more space to show the posts in, - specialy when you use the option to load full webpage of rss post instead of the default rss text-feed post. 3: Overall the option to use the kde3.5* style to the kde aplications but whitout losing the improved functionality and whitout using to mouch outdated code, more a kde4 version of a kde3 visiual interface style. as in the akregator exampel above.
1: the domino widget style.
Are you sure that was standard in KDE 3? I've never heard of it.
2: in akregator ,option to show number of unread posts after chanel name as akregator 1.2.9(kde 3.5* version) and liferea, - thus hide the column of unread posts. -reason for why: to save space when using the combined view(3 vertical vindow view) , - and that gives you more space to show the posts in, - specialy when you use the option to load full webpage of rss post instead of the default rss text-feed post.
Here is the bug I just filed: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=190474
Add a screenshot of 1.2.9 to the bug. Thanks.
3: Overall the option to use the kde3.5* style to the kde aplications but whitout losing the improved functionality and whitout using to mouch outdated code, more a kde4 version of a kde3 visiual interface style. as in the akregator exampel above.
You can change the widget style to Plastique or another widget style that was available in KDE 3.
Dotan Cohen skrev:
1: the domino widget style.
Are you sure that was standard in KDE 3? I've never heard of it.
It was in ubuntu universe repo as per hardy. http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=domino&searchon=names&sui... "Paketet kde-style-domino hardy (kde): Domino widget style and kwin decoration for KDE3 [universe] 0.4-1: amd64 i386"
2: in akregator ,option to show number of unread posts after chanel name as akregator 1.2.9(kde 3.5* version) and liferea,
- thus hide the column of unread posts. -reason for why: to save
space when using the combined view(3 vertical vindow view) ,
- and that gives you more space to show the posts in,
- specialy when you use the option to load full webpage of rss post
instead of the default rss text-feed post.
Here is the bug I just filed: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=190474
Add a screenshot of 1.2.9 to the bug. Thanks.
Oki tnx:)
3: Overall the option to use the kde3.5* style to the kde aplications but whitout losing the improved functionality and whitout using to mouch outdated code, more a kde4 version of a kde3 visiual interface style. as in the akregator exampel above.
You can change the widget style to Plastique or another widget style that was available in KDE 3.
Its not widget styling, but rather the aplication design, as akregator and konqueror are the to best exampels to the diffrent gui design changes from kde3 to kde4. Im not asking for kde3 code but rather a visual mimic of kde3 to kde4 so that the visual diffrence betwen kde3 to kde4 could be for the kde3 fanbase negligible, more like a powe plus theme option that gives kde4 a kde3 visual style.
It was in ubuntu universe repo as per hardy. http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=domino&searchon=names&sui... "Paketet kde-style-domino hardy (kde): Domino widget style and kwin decoration for KDE3 [universe] 0.4-1: amd64 i386"
Do some homework for me, tell me where it came from upstream. You might even want to file it at Ubuntu's launchpad, as it was an Ubuntu specific widget set so far as I can tell.
Its not widget styling, but rather the aplication design, as akregator and konqueror are the to best exampels to the diffrent gui design changes from kde3 to kde4. Im not asking for kde3 code but rather a visual mimic of kde3 to kde4 so that the visual diffrence betwen kde3 to kde4 could be for the kde3 fanbase negligible, more like a powe plus theme option that gives kde4 a kde3 visual style.
If you will be very specific about what changed and how you would prefer it, then I could file it. But just asking for KDE3-style won't help. Pretend that the dev is unfamiliar with KDE 3, and describe it that way.
Dotan Cohen skrev:
It was in ubuntu universe repo as per hardy. http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=domino&searchon=names&sui... "Paketet kde-style-domino hardy (kde): Domino widget style and kwin decoration for KDE3 [universe] 0.4-1: amd64 i386"
Do some homework for me, tell me where it came from upstream. You might even want to file it at Ubuntu's launchpad, as it was an Ubuntu specific widget set so far as I can tell.
Its origin is from kde-look, so no not only a ubuntu widget but ubuntu obviusly accepted it.. but as of other distros or so i have no knowledge.. but the source is here: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Domino?content=42804
Its not widget styling, but rather the aplication design, as akregator and konqueror are the to best exampels to the diffrent gui design changes from kde3 to kde4. Im not asking for kde3 code but rather a visual mimic of kde3 to kde4 so that the visual diffrence betwen kde3 to kde4 could be for the kde3 fanbase negligible, more like a powe plus theme option that gives kde4 a kde3 visual style.
If you will be very specific about what changed and how you would prefer it, then I could file it. But just asking for KDE3-style won't help. Pretend that the dev is unfamiliar with KDE 3, and describe it that way.
well then its a raincheck untill i can get the real kde3 repo installed(manualy fix the missing packages in the repo) so that i can update to jaunty as i now have alot of old unoffical repo kde3packages locked... but i will get back when i have a kde4 install to compare 2.
Its origin is from kde-look, so no not only a ubuntu widget but ubuntu obviusly accepted it.. but as of other distros or so i have no knowledge.. but the source is here: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Domino?content=42804
Hmm, it looks like you might be better off asking the dev to port the theme to KDE 4. Apparently someone tried but did not get very far, it's in the comments. Naturally, KDE cannot just make it work without it being ported.
well then its a raincheck untill i can get the real kde3 repo installed(manualy fix the missing packages in the repo) so that i can update to jaunty as i now have alot of old unoffical repo kde3packages locked... but i will get back when i have a kde4 install to compare 2.
Great. You can file it at bugs.kde.org or you can contact me and I'll help revise it and file it.
Dotan Cohen skrev:
Its origin is from kde-look, so no not only a ubuntu widget but ubuntu obviusly accepted it.. but as of other distros or so i have no knowledge.. but the source is here: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Domino?content=42804
Hmm, it looks like you might be better off asking the dev to port the theme to KDE 4. Apparently someone tried but did not get very far, it's in the comments. Naturally, KDE cannot just make it work without it being ported.
as stated in the comments the org. developer isent involved so im pushing for it werever i can, cause it is a big obstacle for me to go to kde4, mabe the one obstacle as desgin and looks is the formost reason to staing whit kde3 as i dont want to be forced change the looks of my desktop ever..:/
well then its a raincheck untill i can get the real kde3 repo installed(manualy fix the missing packages in the repo) so that i can update to jaunty as i now have alot of old unoffical repo kde3packages locked... but i will get back when i have a kde4 install to compare 2.
Great. You can file it at bugs.kde.org or you can contact me and I'll help revise it and file it.
as stated in the comments the org. developer isent involved so im pushing for it werever i can, cause it is a big obstacle for me to go to kde4, mabe the one obstacle as desgin and looks is the formost reason to staing whit kde3 as i dont want to be forced change the looks of my desktop ever..:/
That will be a problem!
On Thursday 23 April 2009 13:41:35 Dotan Cohen wrote:
I am filing bugs for features missing from KDE 4 that were present in KDE 3. Please send to me the features that are missing for _you_ so that we can get them in future versions of KDE 4. Thanks!
I wouldn't even know where to start, but here we go:
* System Monitor Configuration Applet:
Other than choosing the network interfaces and a keyboard shortcut (what for?) there is nothing to configure. Only plotting method is graph bar and the only color available is grey. I used to have monitors for CPU temperature, User and system load, incoming outgoing traffic and CPU frequency. These monitors had distinctive colors, some of them combined (net traffic) and I could immediately see what was going on. Not so anymore. Three applets beside eachother look like one piece of of gray modern art. Oh, and resizing them is not an option.
What also totally sucks is the relativity of all these applets. In 3.5.* one could give ranges for the individual monitors, i.e. 1-100 for CPU load. Not so anymore. All you get are relative estimates, but certainly nothing close to serious system monitoring. Basically useless and a huge regression.
* Spacing between icons
Always the same, no difference between starting an application, viewing the desktop, and as soon as you got a couple of windows open the taskbar icons have just the same size, making the whole panel look like an icon regatta.
* Moving items on the panel
Takes more mouse clicks, needs the additional panel options menu bar and simply dragging an application item from the menu doesn't work. Sucky.
* Visual feedback
Hovering over an application button and then clicking it makes no visual difference. Basically you need to wait for the applicatin to start to know whether you clicked the icon correctly or not. 3.5.* had a depth change on the icons, which I found helpful.
* Configuration cluttered all over the place
Basically all configuration options are scattered among various places, some of the in the control center, some of them not (taskbar and panel). Counterintuitive and a serious regression from the previous KDE versions.
Also, I want that tree view back, seriously.
* Applets/widgets
Whatever you call them. The plug in device thingy is useless. I want to mount/unmount a device, not use one specific application for that. Did I mention I find Dolphin a waste of time and screen estate? And I'd like my weather applet that I can I can actually read, not some gray on gray thingy. And I'd like to see which location the applet is using.
There's a lot more, but that's it for the moment.
Peter Lemken DF5JT
- System Monitor Configuration Applet:
Other than choosing the network interfaces and a keyboard shortcut (what for?) there is nothing to configure. Only plotting method is graph bar and the only color available is grey. I used to have monitors for CPU temperature, User and system load, incoming outgoing traffic and CPU frequency. These monitors had distinctive colors, some of them combined (net traffic) and I could immediately see what was going on. Not so anymore. Three applets beside eachother look like one piece of of gray modern art. Oh, and resizing them is not an option.
I will file an issue on that, please create a screenshot of the KDE 3 System Monitor to attach to the issue. If you could label the screenshot with the important bits it might help the designer (Probably Aaron, who eventually gets around to everything plasma-related) get it right the first time.
What also totally sucks is the relativity of all these applets. In 3.5.* one could give ranges for the individual monitors, i.e. 1-100 for CPU load. Not so anymore. All you get are relative estimates, but certainly nothing close to serious system monitoring. Basically useless and a huge regression.
I think that I'll file that as a separate issue. Give me about an hour to start posting bug reports here.
- Spacing between icons
Always the same, no difference between starting an application, viewing the desktop, and as soon as you got a couple of windows open the taskbar icons have just the same size, making the whole panel look like an icon regatta.
When you mention icons, do you mean Taskbar tasks? I really don't understand this, please reword. Thanks.
- Moving items on the panel
Takes more mouse clicks, needs the additional panel options menu bar and simply dragging an application item from the menu doesn't work. Sucky.
Agreed. I'll dig up and post links to the issues open on this. I think they're mostly WONTFIX but more people complaining might get the message across. This is seriously one of KDE 4's weak points.
- Visual feedback
Hovering over an application button and then clicking it makes no visual difference. Basically you need to wait for the applicatin to start to know whether you clicked the icon correctly or not. 3.5.* had a depth change on the icons, which I found helpful.
Nice catch! Please try and capture screenshots of the different icons situations. Ksnapshot's timer might help here, but you will need to be a sharpshooter! Screenshots for these types of issues are important, as the person designing them in KDE 4 will be doing it from scratch.
- Configuration cluttered all over the place
Basically all configuration options are scattered among various places, some of the in the control center, some of them not (taskbar and panel). Counterintuitive and a serious regression from the previous KDE versions.
I will try and dig up the issue for this.
Also, I want that tree view back, seriously.
It's back! It should be in Trunk in the next few days, and KDE 4.3 is a good possibility.
- Applets/widgets
Whatever you call them. The plug in device thingy is useless. I want to mount/unmount a device, not use one specific application for that.
You can do that from within Dolphin, you don't need the plasmoid (ha! Not applet and not widget!) for that.
Did I mention I find Dolphin a waste of time and screen estate?
I most certainly _was_ in d3lphin and in KDE 4.0. Take a look at it now, I never though I'd say this but it's already replaced Konqueror for me. I absolutely love Dolphin now. The dev, Peter, is also very open to suggestions and bug reports, so if there is anything that you think should be changed, file it or let me know and I'll file it.
And I'd like my weather applet that I can I can actually read, not some gray on gray thingy.
Amen! Be specific as to what you would like changed, though. Don't ever leave the dev/designer to guess!
And I'd like to see which location the applet is using.
I'll note that as well, once I know what else you'd like. Please, be specific.
There's a lot more, but that's it for the moment.
We'll get these filed and whenever you find other issues, you can file them at bugs.kde.org or you can contact me and I'll file them.
Thanks!
- System Monitor Configuration Applet:
Other than choosing the network interfaces and a keyboard shortcut (what for?) there is nothing to configure. Only plotting method is graph bar and the only color available is grey. I used to have monitors for CPU temperature, User and system load, incoming outgoing traffic and CPU frequency. These monitors had distinctive colors, some of them combined (net traffic) and I could immediately see what was going on. Not so anymore. Three applets beside eachother look like one piece of of gray modern art. Oh, and resizing them is not an option.
I will file an issue on that, please create a screenshot of the KDE 3 System Monitor to attach to the issue. If you could label the screenshot with the important bits it might help the designer (Probably Aaron, who eventually gets around to everything plasma-related) get it right the first time.
I read this one and agree that the system monitoring is a very nice feature in KDE 3.5 I like the super-configurability of it. I don't know if it's appropriate to attach an image to this mailing list or not, so please forgive me if it's wrong (see attached image--only 5K!). I have that strips of meters along the bottom of my screen and as you can see, I monitor many items and I set the scales for most of them to meet my desires. I also liked that I could put whatever titles and colors I wanted on them.
Thanks, Paul
- System Monitor Configuration Applet:
Other than choosing the network interfaces and a keyboard shortcut (what for?) there is nothing to configure. Only plotting method is graph bar and the only color available is grey. I used to have monitors for CPU temperature, User and system load, incoming outgoing traffic and CPU frequency. These monitors had distinctive colors, some of them combined (net traffic) and I could immediately see what was going on. Not so anymore. Three applets beside eachother look like one piece of of gray modern art. Oh, and resizing them is not an option.
I will file an issue on that, please create a screenshot of the KDE 3 System Monitor to attach to the issue. If you could label the screenshot with the important bits it might help the designer (Probably Aaron, who eventually gets around to everything plasma-related) get it right the first time.
I read this one and agree that the system monitoring is a very nice feature in KDE 3.5 I like the super-configurability of it. I don't know if it's appropriate to attach an image to this mailing list or not, so please forgive me if it's wrong (see attached image--only 5K!). I have that strips of meters along the bottom of my screen and as you can see, I monitor many items and I set the scales for most of them to meet my desires. I also liked that I could put whatever titles and colors I wanted on them.
Thanks, Paul
Hi Paul,
Anyone can attach anything they want! In general, try to keep each attachment under 1 or 2 megabytes, and obviously no illegal stuff please.
Tim
On Thursday 30 April 2009 23:15:20 Dotan Cohen wrote:
- System Monitor Configuration Applet:
Other than choosing the network interfaces and a keyboard shortcut (what for?) there is nothing to configure. Only plotting method is graph bar and the only color available is grey. I used to have monitors for CPU temperature, User and system load, incoming outgoing traffic and CPU frequency. These monitors had distinctive colors, some of them combined (net traffic) and I could immediately see what was going on. Not so anymore. Three applets beside eachother look like one piece of of gray modern art. Oh, and resizing them is not an option.
I will file an issue on that, please create a screenshot of the KDE 3 System Monitor to attach to the issue.
Paul Hyde has already done that much better than I could have done. It is pretty self-explanatory.
What is not obvious is the fact that the "old" system monitor is inextrinsically linked to ksysguard in a way that you could define monitors in ksysguard with all relevant parameters, i.e. defined range, color, sensor, vertical and horizontal lines and then drag&drop them into the panel.
While there is a ksysguard that basically replicates all the functions in KDE4, it completely misses this very aspect, leaving you with two different ksysguards: One as a stand alone application and one on the panel with no interaction between the two. That is a serious regression.
[...]
What also totally sucks is the relativity of all these applets. In 3.5.* one could give ranges for the individual monitors, i.e. 1-100 for CPU load. Not so anymore. All you get are relative estimates, but certainly nothing close to serious system monitoring. Basically useless and a huge regression.
I think that I'll file that as a separate issue. Give me about an hour to start posting bug reports here.
Thank you for taking care of that. I find your way of handling these things admirable and I think I can speak for all the other participants on the list in this respect.
- Spacing between icons
Always the same, no difference between starting an application, viewing the desktop, and as soon as you got a couple of windows open the taskbar icons have just the same size, making the whole panel look like an icon regatta.
When you mention icons, do you mean Taskbar tasks? I really don't understand this, please reword. Thanks.
Panel is the whole thing on the bottom of the screen. Taskbar is the thing that shows active windows. Clicking on the the taskbar thingy makes the respective window come up front. Taskbar is part of the panel and what I was trying to say is that as soon as you have a certain number of applications open, their respective icons are not distinguishable from icons in other parts of the panel, leaving you with a large number of icons which looks overwhelming and cluttered. I mentioned separators between various aspects of the panel and these could help to know what's what.
Agreed. I'll dig up and post links to the issues open on this. I think they're mostly WONTFIX but more people complaining might get the message across. This is seriously one of KDE 4's weak points.
It is and I seriously hope for reconsideration on this issue.
- Visual feedback
Hovering over an application button and then clicking it makes no visual difference. Basically you need to wait for the applicatin to start to know whether you clicked the icon correctly or not. 3.5.* had a depth change on the icons, which I found helpful.
Nice catch! Please try and capture screenshots of the different icons situations. Ksnapshot's timer might help here, but you will need to be a sharpshooter! Screenshots for these types of issues are important, as the person designing them in KDE 4 will be doing it from scratch.
There are only two states of an icon. Full colored and slightly opaque when you move the mouse pointer over it. There is no difference between hovering with the mouse and clicking it. Screenshot doesn't help in this case.
[...]
Also, I want that tree view back, seriously.
It's back! It should be in Trunk in the next few days, and KDE 4.3 is a good possibility.
Halleluja!
- Applets/widgets
Whatever you call them. The plug in device thingy is useless. I want to mount/unmount a device, not use one specific application for that.
You can do that from within Dolphin, you don't need the plasmoid (ha! Not applet and not widget!) for that.
I call BS. Mounting, unmounting, properties, size, filesystem etc. are pieces of important information and I want to have these available before using a basically crappy file manager. My file manager is cp, mv, ls, dd and rm (plus cat and grep) and I'd like to use it on pluggable devices before starting Dolphin.
Did I mention I find Dolphin a waste of time and screen estate?
I most certainly _was_ in d3lphin and in KDE 4.0. Take a look at it now, I never though I'd say this but it's already replaced Konqueror for me. I absolutely love Dolphin now. The dev, Peter, is also very open to suggestions and bug reports, so if there is anything that you think should be changed, file it or let me know and I'll file it.
As I said, my file manager is 5 two letter words and I'd like to use it with pluggable devices. Give me a mount/umount/properties option on pluggable devices and I'll be happy. I don't need graphical overhead to do simple file operations.
And I'd like my weather applet that I can I can actually read, not some gray on gray thingy.
Amen! Be specific as to what you would like changed, though. Don't ever leave the dev/designer to guess!
1. Gray on gray sucks. 2. Hovering with mouse I want information: Location, forecast, Air pressure 3. I want icons that say overcast, sunny, rainy, snow etc.
Basically: give me all the looks and functions of the 3.5 weather applet.
And I'd like to see which location the applet is using.
I'll note that as well, once I know what else you'd like. Please, be specific.
See above.
There's a lot more, but that's it for the moment.
We'll get these filed and whenever you find other issues, you can file them at bugs.kde.org or you can contact me and I'll file them.
I'd rather discuss them here first, because this gives me the opportunity of seeing whether other people feel the same way or whether there is a different way of getting the same results in 4.2 that I haven't figured out yet.
Thanks for your great work!
Peter Lemken DF5JT
PS: I'd like my dynamic background back. I used to have a desktop background with xplanet updating every 10 minutes, giving me the day/nigh line on earth, something that I find very helpful as a ham radio operator.
Here is a screenshot:
What is not obvious is the fact that the "old" system monitor is inextrinsically linked to ksysguard in a way that you could define monitors in ksysguard with all relevant parameters, i.e. defined range, color, sensor, vertical and horizontal lines and then drag&drop them into the panel.
Please excuse the plagiarism, but comment here to back the feature request up: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=191377
Always the same, no difference between starting an application, viewing the desktop, and as soon as you got a couple of windows open the taskbar icons have just the same size, making the whole panel look like an icon regatta.
When you mention icons, do you mean Taskbar tasks? I really don't understand this, please reword. Thanks.
Panel is the whole thing on the bottom of the screen. Taskbar is the thing that shows active windows. Clicking on the the taskbar thingy makes the respective window come up front. Taskbar is part of the panel and what I was trying to say is that as soon as you have a certain number of applications open, their respective icons are not distinguishable from icons in other parts of the panel, leaving you with a large number of icons which looks overwhelming and cluttered. I mentioned separators between various aspects of the panel and these could help to know what's what.
I cannot reproduce this on my huge monitor! Can you please send to me a screenshot? Thanks.
There are only two states of an icon. Full colored and slightly opaque when you move the mouse pointer over it. There is no difference between hovering with the mouse and clicking it. Screenshot doesn't help in this case.
But I need a KDE 3 screenshots of the different states to show them how you'd like it. Trust me, that's the only way to file the bug such that it won't be ignored. Otherwise the dev has too much left to his imagination.
- Applets/widgets
Whatever you call them. The plug in device thingy is useless. I want to mount/unmount a device, not use one specific application for that.
You can do that from within Dolphin, you don't need the plasmoid (ha! Not applet and not widget!) for that.
I call BS. Mounting, unmounting, properties, size, filesystem etc. are pieces of important information and I want to have these available before using a basically crappy file manager. My file manager is cp, mv, ls, dd and rm (plus cat and grep) and I'd like to use it on pluggable devices before starting Dolphin.
So why don't you mount manually? If your intention is to use the CLI then I'm not sure exactly what you are requesting here. I'm not being a smart-ass, I'm really trying to figure this out. What exactly is it that you need here? Was it available in KDE 3?
As I said, my file manager is 5 two letter words and I'd like to use it with pluggable devices. Give me a mount/umount/properties option on pluggable devices and I'll be happy. I don't need graphical overhead to do simple file operations.
Can you not mount from the CLI? Or if HAL automounts the device, why can you not access it in /media or wherever else it is mounted?
Please give an example of your KDE 3 workflow so that I can see what is missing in KDE 4.
And I'd like my weather applet that I can I can actually read, not some gray on gray thingy.
Amen! Be specific as to what you would like changed, though. Don't ever leave the dev/designer to guess!
- Gray on gray sucks.
That's in the report
- Hovering with mouse I want information: Location, forecast, Air pressure
You must click, not hover. I added a request for hovering, and for location. Forecast is a different plasmoid, and air pressure is already included.
- I want icons that say overcast, sunny, rainy, snow etc.
In the bug report!
Basically: give me all the looks and functions of the 3.5 weather applet.
But just stating this won't get you anywhere, trust me. You must ask for each separate feature separately and specifically. That is because everything is being recoded from scratch.
I'd rather discuss them here first, because this gives me the opportunity of seeing whether other people feel the same way or whether there is a different way of getting the same results in 4.2 that I haven't figured out yet.
That is a good attitude. Thanks for your input!
PS: I'd like my dynamic background back. I used to have a desktop background with xplanet updating every 10 minutes, giving me the day/nigh line on earth, something that I find very helpful as a ham radio operator.
Here is a screenshot:
Give me some time to search BKO on that, it sounds familiar.
On Saturday 02 May 2009 21:17:26 Dotan Cohen wrote:
What is not obvious is the fact that the "old" system monitor is inextrinsically linked to ksysguard in a way that you could define monitors in ksysguard with all relevant parameters, i.e. defined range, color, sensor, vertical and horizontal lines and then drag&drop them into the panel.
Please excuse the plagiarism, but comment here to back the feature request up: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=191377
I hope that seconding is good enough. As soon as there are questions from the developers I will foolow them up, having subscribed to the bug.
[Cluttered taskbar]
I cannot reproduce this on my huge monitor! Can you please send to me a screenshot? Thanks.
Actually, I want is a spacer to created cleanly differentiated ares for starting icons, Systray, and various applets that I want to group into functional areas.
There are only two states of an icon. Full colored and slightly opaque when you move the mouse pointer over it. There is no difference between hovering with the mouse and clicking it. Screenshot doesn't help in this case.
But I need a KDE 3 screenshots of the different states to show them how you'd like it. Trust me, that's the only way to file the bug such that it won't be ignored. Otherwise the dev has too much left to his imagination.
See attachment. Icon1 is untouched and icon2 shows the icon when hovered over with the mouse. There is a difference of colors, but there is no further visual difference between hovering and clicking. KDE3 used to have an option of seeing the icon as if it were a pressed button. Does this explanation make it any clearer?
I call BS. Mounting, unmounting, properties, size, filesystem etc. are pieces of important information and I want to have these available before using a basically crappy file manager. My file manager is cp, mv, ls, dd and rm (plus cat and grep) and I'd like to use it on pluggable devices before starting Dolphin.
So why don't you mount manually?
Because there are many more steps involved in doing it:
* look at dmesg to see the exact device name * An external hard disk with more than one partition need looking at to decide which partition you want to mount, i.e. cfdisk or mount them all and then use "df" * mount device mountpoint * unmount /mountpoint
It would be preferable to * get information about device and partitions before mounting * letting you decide which partition to mount OR * have them mounted automatically in standard places
If your intention is to use the CLI then I'm not sure exactly what you are requesting here. I'm not being a smart-ass, I'm really trying to figure this out. What exactly is it that you need here? Was it available in KDE 3?
KDE3 took a different route: For each partition it showed you an individual icon. Right clicking on each of these you could see the type of file system, letting you mount/unmount it and/or open in konqueror. Gave you best of the two worlds between CLI and GUI.
As I said, my file manager is 5 two letter words and I'd like to use it with pluggable devices. Give me a mount/umount/properties option on pluggable devices and I'll be happy. I don't need graphical overhead to do simple file operations.
Can you not mount from the CLI? Or if HAL automounts the device, why can you not access it in /media or wherever else it is mounted?
See, I haven't figured out automounting a device in KDE4 without editing /etc/fstab. I realize that this is probably the "real" way to do it, but somehow I have refrained from looking up UUIDs of each and every device I might plug in (5 external hard disks, 3 Memory Sticks). I had hoped for a clean GUI way of a) seeing the device and mount/unmount it in KDE.
Probably the easiest way of doing it (that's the route I am taking now) is to actually open it in Dolphin as soon as the device turns up. Opening all partitions in let's say 4 different Dolphin windows, closing these windows, goint to Konsole, do a "mount" and then work on the file system I need. With 4 partitions, two of them NTFS, two of them ext3, I still need to figure out which ones I actually want to work with.
Please give an example of your KDE 3 workflow so that I can see what is missing in KDE 4.
* Plug in device * Go to shell and start "mount" to see mount points and then cd to directory
And I'd like my weather applet that I can I can actually read, not some gray on gray thingy.
Amen! Be specific as to what you would like changed, though. Don't ever leave the dev/designer to guess!
- Gray on gray sucks.
That's in the report
Very good. Incidentally, I found "yawp"
http://www.kde- look.org/content/show.php/yaWP+(Yet+Another+Weather+Plasmoid)?content=94106
which I find cool, but for a simple version I'll be glad to take the old KDE3 applet and its functionality.
But just stating this won't get you anywhere, trust me. You must ask for each separate feature separately and specifically. That is because everything is being recoded from scratch.
I can see that now and I'll try to become more specific in the future.
I'd rather discuss them here first, because this gives me the opportunity of seeing whether other people feel the same way or whether there is a different way of getting the same results in 4.2 that I haven't figured out yet.
That is a good attitude. Thanks for your input!
I have probably not figured out automount in KDE4, so maybe that is the reason, why we go at length to see what I mwan with my workflow on mountable devices.
Thanks for your help!
Peter
See attachment. Icon1 is untouched and icon2 shows the icon when hovered over with the mouse. There is a difference of colors, but there is no further visual difference between hovering and clicking. KDE3 used to have an option of seeing the icon as if it were a pressed button. Does this explanation make it any clearer?
Peter, I am at the university at the moment so the rest of my reply will have to wait until tommorow, but until then _please_ make KDE 3 screenshots of the different icon states. The devs already know what KDE 4 icons look like, but to get the same behaviour as KDE 3 I need KDE 3 screenshots.
Thanks! Sorry for the delays, this is a tough wek for me.
Actually, I want is a spacer to created cleanly differentiated ares for starting icons, Systray, and various applets that I want to group into functional areas.
It's no shipped with KDE, but you can add this plasmoid: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Panel+Spacer?content=89304
There are only two states of an icon. Full colored and slightly opaque when you move the mouse pointer over it. There is no difference between hovering with the mouse and clicking it. Screenshot doesn't help in this case.
But I need a KDE 3 screenshots of the different states to show them how you'd like it. Trust me, that's the only way to file the bug such that it won't be ignored. Otherwise the dev has too much left to his imagination.
See attachment. Icon1 is untouched and icon2 shows the icon when hovered over with the mouse. There is a difference of colors, but there is no further visual difference between hovering and clicking. KDE3 used to have an option of seeing the icon as if it were a pressed button. Does this explanation make it any clearer?
Yes, much clearer, thanks. Please attach KDE 3 screenshots (Not KDE 4 screenshots), to this bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=191873 Thanks!
I call BS. Mounting, unmounting, properties, size, filesystem etc. are pieces of important information and I want to have these available before using a basically crappy file manager. My file manager is cp, mv, ls, dd and rm (plus cat and grep) and I'd like to use it on pluggable devices before starting Dolphin.
So why don't you mount manually?
Because there are many more steps involved in doing it:
- look at dmesg to see the exact device name
- An external hard disk with more than one partition need looking at to decide
which partition you want to mount, i.e. cfdisk or mount them all and then use "df"
- mount device mountpoint
- unmount /mountpoint
This sounds like something that you could probably write a small application to help with. It would parse dmesg, list the available partitions and optionally let you [un]mount them. You could probably even do it in bash or python.
It would be preferable to
- get information about device and partitions before mounting
- letting you decide which partition to mount OR
- have them mounted automatically in standard places
KDE 4 in Kubuntu automatically mounts the devices, but you can unmount them. It does not show mountpoints, however. It sounds like you are asking for two features: 1) The choice whether or not to mount attached removable media. 2) Information regarding removable disk partitions on unmounted attached removable media.
Is this right?
If your intention is to use the CLI then I'm not sure exactly what you are requesting here. I'm not being a smart-ass, I'm really trying to figure this out. What exactly is it that you need here? Was it available in KDE 3?
KDE3 took a different route: For each partition it showed you an individual icon. Right clicking on each of these you could see the type of file system, letting you mount/unmount it and/or open in konqueror. Gave you best of the two worlds between CLI and GUI.
Where was that info, on the desktop? Panel? Popup window?
As I said, my file manager is 5 two letter words and I'd like to use it with pluggable devices. Give me a mount/umount/properties option on pluggable devices and I'll be happy. I don't need graphical overhead to do simple file operations.
Can you not mount from the CLI? Or if HAL automounts the device, why can you not access it in /media or wherever else it is mounted?
See, I haven't figured out automounting a device in KDE4 without editing /etc/fstab. I realize that this is probably the "real" way to do it, but somehow I have refrained from looking up UUIDs of each and every device I might plug in (5 external hard disks, 3 Memory Sticks). I had hoped for a clean GUI way of a) seeing the device and mount/unmount it in KDE.
Again, here it looks like you fit right between the cracks of the KDE3 GUI and the CLI. I would recommend to you that you write the bash script that I suggested earlier. It would free you from the dependency on GUI and you can add it as another two-letter word in your toolbox!
However, I am still happy to help you file the feature request, but we need to define it well.
Probably the easiest way of doing it (that's the route I am taking now) is to actually open it in Dolphin as soon as the device turns up. Opening all partitions in let's say 4 different Dolphin windows, closing these windows, goint to Konsole, do a "mount" and then work on the file system I need. With 4 partitions, two of them NTFS, two of them ext3, I still need to figure out which ones I actually want to work with.
Script it!
Please give an example of your KDE 3 workflow so that I can see what is missing in KDE 4.
- Plug in device
- Go to shell and start "mount" to see mount points and then cd to directory
No GUI tools here.
And I'd like my weather applet that I can I can actually read, not some gray on gray thingy.
Amen! Be specific as to what you would like changed, though. Don't ever leave the dev/designer to guess!
- Gray on gray sucks.
- Hovering with mouse I want information: Location, forecast, Air pressure
- I want icons that say overcast, sunny, rainy, snow etc.
Basically: give me all the looks and functions of the 3.5 weather applet.
I forgot to add the link to the bug in my last email: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=191380
- Moving items on the panel
Takes more mouse clicks, needs the additional panel options menu bar and simply dragging an application item from the menu doesn't work. Sucky.
Please add comments quickly, before they WONTFIX it: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=191376
- Configuration cluttered all over the place
Basically all configuration options are scattered among various places, some of the in the control center, some of them not (taskbar and panel). Counterintuitive and a serious regression from the previous KDE versions.
All the bugs that I found on this are in fact fixed in KDE 4.2.2, even the WONTFIX ones. If you can be very specific as to what you'd like to see improved, I'll do my best to make sure that it is.
The plug in device thingy is useless. I want to mount/unmount a device, not use one specific application for that.
Might this help: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/New+Device+Notifier+with+Automount?...
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Dotan Cohen -
kb9vqf＠pearsoncomputing.net -
maybeway36 -
Michael Hirsch -
Paul Hyde -
Peter Lemken -
Stefan Endrullis -
The endless wasteland