Am Freitag, 16. März 2018 schrieb Baron:

Hi Thierry, Thank you for your reply. Question: Where could I find how this process is triggered ?

Thanks:

Re Previous post: I'm going to have to get another backup device. 58Gb is too much for DVD's.

The process is triggered by one of the many raceconditions introduced in systemd. If you can, get rid of systemd, install devuan or exegnulinux or antix or ....

Nik

Hi Deloptes, Thank you for your help.

On Friday 16 March 2018 16:35:13 deloptes wrote:

Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:

...

The process is triggered by one of the many raceconditions introduced in systemd. If you can, get rid of systemd, install devuan or exegnulinux or antix or ....

Is this as straight forward as using package manager for sysv-rc, sysvinit-core and sysvinit-utils. ?

no need to do so. just install ii sysv-rc 2.88dsf-59.9 all System-V-like runlevel change mechanism ii sysvinit-core 2.88dsf-59.9 amd64 System-V-like init utilities ii sysvinit-utils 2.88dsf-59.9 amd64 System-V-like utilities

trash systemd-sysv and reboot

if you keep systemd-sysv add in /etc/default/grub GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT ..... init=/lib/sysvinit/init

and update-initramfs

but it could be also a disk issue or unclean fs - probably you don't use ext4 and/or root is setup to remount ro on error

Yes I think root is setup to remount ro on error.

boot from rescue and fsck

regards

On Friday 16 March 2018 09:35:13 deloptes wrote:

Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:

...

The process is triggered by one of the many raceconditions introduced in systemd. If you can, get rid of systemd, install devuan or exegnulinux or antix or ....

no need to do so. just install ii  sysv-rc                               2.88dsf-59.9                               all          System-V-like runlevel change mechanism ii  sysvinit-core                         2.88dsf-59.9                               amd64        System-V-like init utilities ii  sysvinit-utils                        2.88dsf-59.9                               amd64        System-V-like utilities

trash systemd-sysv and reboot

if you keep systemd-sysv add in /etc/default/grub GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT ..... init=/lib/sysvinit/init

and update-initramfs

but it could be also a disk issue or unclean fs - probably you don't use ext4 and/or root is setup to remount ro on error

boot from rescue and fsck

I have similar problems with systemd when I try to shutdown or reboot; the system hangs, sometimes for ever. I have managed mostly to get round the issue by simply shutting down all unnecessary running processes before shutdown or reboot, but I still have issues.

Will this work for an i386 machine, as well? I did try installing Devuan, but without success (as it seems the process used by their installation disc wants to overwrite my home folder); I also gave exegnulinux, but that also was unsatisfactory.

My current system is Debian Jessie, and runs pretty much like I want, except for some minor bugs. My biggest complaint is systemd, and I really want to go back to using sysvinit.

Also: I wonder if it is possible to switch to Devuan without doing a complete reinstallation? i.e., after changing over to sysvinit, can I enable Devuan repositories (and disable Debian), then do something like sudo apt-get dist-upgrade or whatever?

Bill

On Friday 16 March 2018 12:42:02 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:

Am Freitag, 16. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:

...

[...] Will this work for an i386 machine, as well? I did try installing Devuan, but without success (as it seems the process used by their installation disc wants to overwrite my home folder); I also gave exegnulinux, but that also was unsatisfactory.

If your home folder lives on the same partition as /, then you'll have some work to do :-)

Yeah ... I copied my home folder to another hard drive (a precaution for whenever I am about to experiment, or do something stupid); so that it would be possible to make my home folder something like sdb3, etc. ... if that is what you mean.

Most of my important files are kept elsewhere, on other hard BIG drives; the root partion and home folder are installed on a 100 GB hard drive. And I only use the home folder for temporary files, which will eventually get moved to one of those other places. Otherwise, the only real purpose of my home folder is to keep all my settings intact.

If I follow what you're saying, then I could partition that 100 GB hard drive something like: sda1 = / sda2 = /boot sda3 = swap

But that seems like a waste of space, as even a generous root partition has never been bigger than about 30 GB, and a boot partition is maybe 2 or 3, and maybe 4-6 GB for swap -- which leaves at least 60 GB for what?

Or maybe something else would be better? Then I could use a partition on sdb as my home folder?

Thanks for your advice,

Bill

...

My current system is Debian Jessie, and runs pretty much like I want, except for some minor bugs. My biggest complaint is systemd, and I really want to go back to using sysvinit.

Also: I wonder if it is possible to switch to Devuan without doing a complete reinstallation? i.e., after changing over to sysvinit, can I enable Devuan repositories (and disable Debian), then do something like sudo apt-get dist-upgrade or whatever?

Bill

You can move from debian jessie to devuan jessie without problems, just follow the guide https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/stable-jessie-announce-052517 section "Upgrade". When you do the upgrade, please do it on a console, not on a X11 terminal.

Nik

On Friday 16 March 2018 14:27:08 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:

Am Freitag, 16. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:

...

...

If your home folder lives on the same partition as /, then you'll have some work to do :-)

Yeah ... I copied my home folder to another hard drive (a precaution for whenever I am about to experiment, or do something stupid); so that it would be possible to make my home folder something like sdb3, etc. ... if that is what you mean.

exactly. that's a good way not to loose your data :-)

...

Most of my important files are kept elsewhere, on other hard BIG drives; the root partion and home folder are installed on a 100 GB hard drive. And I only use the home folder for temporary files, which will eventually get moved to one of those other places. Otherwise, the only real purpose of my home folder is to keep all my settings intact.

If I follow what you're saying, then I could partition that 100 GB hard drive something like: sda1 = / sda2 = /boot sda3 = swap

But that seems like a waste of space, as even a generous root partition has never been bigger than about 30 GB, and a boot partition is maybe 2 or 3, and maybe 4-6 GB for swap -- which leaves at least 60 GB for what?

Or maybe something else would be better? Then I could use a partition on sdb as my home folder?

Space is cheap. Anyhow, you most likely will never use swap. And /boot does not need to be on a seperate partition, just keep it on /. You can always resize/create/erase partitions with gparted (puppylinux comes in handy for this), so it essentilly does not matter with what size you start, you can always change that later. 20GB for / is OK, make the rest /home. But before installing a new OS, please copy /home/your-user to /home/copy-of-your-user - and check twice that you use the right partition :-)

...

Thanks for your advice,

Bill

...

...

My current system is Debian Jessie, and runs pretty much like I want, except for some minor bugs. My biggest complaint is systemd, and I really want to go back to using sysvinit.

Also: I wonder if it is possible to switch to Devuan without doing a complete reinstallation? i.e., after changing over to sysvinit, can I enable Devuan repositories (and disable Debian), then do something like sudo apt-get dist-upgrade or whatever?

Bill

You can move from debian jessie to devuan jessie without problems, just follow the guide https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/stable-jessie-announce-052517 section "Upgrade". When you do the upgrade, please do it on a console, not on a X11 terminal.

Nik

Yes, that's pretty much how I set it up. Maybe I didn't make it clear that my home folder is a separate partition from / - although it is on the same drive. Right now it's like this: sda1 = / (20 GB) sda2 = swap (4 GB) sda3 = /home (74 GB ... or so) and then there's 5% or so for all that hidden space. (This a 100 GB hard drive; all my other stuff is stored elsewhere.)

I have written in another post about my FrankenDebian; that's where I needed a to create a separate boot partition.

Anyway, that's not my problem here. I am using a single hard drive for installation. I do want to increase the root partition, though, and I find that I tend to use swap a lot, probably because my computer is made up of spare parts (hence a Frankenstein as well as a FrankenDebian), and I need to put in more memory.

Space is cheap, by the way, if one has money to spend on hard drives; right now I have to scratch for spare change to buy toilet paper. (I am not joking.) However, all in good time. This too will pass. Nothing lasts for ever.

In the meanwhile, I still have to do a lot of juggling to find space; I have hard drives, but they are already quite full. (I live in a third-world country known as San Francisco's Tenderloin: not a good place for anybody who is over the age of about 35 or 40.) I hope that in another few months I can splurge for at least 2 TB or so, but right now I have work to do, and need a computer that does the job.

Okay, so with this fairly straightforward setup (the partition table listed above), the Devuan installation disc seems to want to delete or overwrite my home folder. I would prefer to resize it with gparted, which (I believe) is also the partition manager used in the Debian setup.

Devuan and exegnulinux are both a little wonky on this point, but hey, they're still in development. Still, I always end up with a half-installed system when I've tried them.

I think my best plan is to use the method that I gleaned from the earlier posts of Nik Klepp and deloptes. (I hope I got their names right.) My system is already installed and runs pretty well, so it's better to make the switch from Debian to Devuan by apt-get dist-upgrade. If I could just resize my partition instead of deleting it, that would be grand; however, I have done a backup of my home directory, just in case.

Also - one of those bugs - I cannot start gparted (or any gnome application) as root. I've tried tdesu and gksu. The Trinity sudo works okay for TDE programs, but the gksu always rejects my password, even though I am sure of the password. This is also a problem when I do a new installation. I can only get admin privileges by sudo or su when I am in a shell; and except for the shell, it's not until after I've installed the Trinity packages (especially the Trinity sudo packages) that I can do anything as root. It would be nice to be able to resize the root partition (assuming I won't lose information in the home partition ... but I've got a fresh backup, anyway). Otherwise, I will proceed with a system reinstallation at some point, and resize partitions then.

Thanks for any guidance here. I can generally do partitioning and system installations in my sleep (and often have done), but this problem with sudo (mentioned by myself and others elsewhere) is a pain in the *ma-hony*.

Bill

...

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On Saturday 17 March 2018 01:13:32 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:

Hi!

Am Samstag, 17. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:

...

[...] Also - one of those bugs - I cannot start gparted (or any gnome application) as root. I've tried tdesu and gksu. The Trinity sudo works okay for TDE programs, but the gksu always rejects my password, even though I am sure of the password. This is also a problem when I do a new installation. I can only get admin privileges by sudo or su when I am in a shell; and except for the shell, it's not until after I've installed the Trinity packages (especially the Trinity sudo packages) that I can do anything as root. It would be nice to be able to resize the root partition (assuming I won't lose information in the home partition ... but I've got a fresh backup, anyway). Otherwise, I will proceed with a system reinstallation at some point, and resize partitions then.

Ok, this won't work that way :-)

Please download slacko from here http://slacko.eezy.xyz/download.php - best use the 32 bit iso http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-slacko-6.3.2/32/slacko-6.3.2-uef i.iso

either burn the iso or make "dd if=slacko-6.3.2-uefi.iso of=/dev/<the-usb-stick>" Boot from the iso, open a terminal, start gparted. Now you can resize partitions. BTW, slacko is slackware based :-)

When you have problems booting from USB, then please post what hardware you are using. When you use Lenovo/IBM, you migh have to press F12 to select the boot media. Also not all usb sticks boot on all computers.

Nik

I have discovered that some computers won't boot from USB sticks. And yes, I am running i386, so 32 bit it is. However, I don't have UEFI, because I built this thing out of parts.

A friend of mine turned a laptop into a brick by trying to install a Linux system on a machine that had UEFI enabled. This sounds like the opposite problem: the iso image is made for UEFI machines, but I don't want that (at least, not yet). Will that be a problem?

Bill

...

Thanks for any guidance here. I can generally do partitioning and system installations in my sleep (and often have done), but this problem with sudo (mentioned by myself and others elsewhere) is a pain in the *ma-hony*.

Bill

...

...

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On Saturday 17 March 2018 01:41:23 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:

Am Samstag, 17. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:

...

[...] I have discovered that some computers won't boot from USB sticks. And yes, I am running i386, so 32 bit it is. However, I don't have UEFI, because I built this thing out of parts.

A friend of mine turned a laptop into a brick by trying to install a Linux system on a machine that had UEFI enabled. This sounds like the opposite problem: the iso image is made for UEFI machines, but I don't want that (at least, not yet). Will that be a problem?

UEFI is broken by design. Anyway, you can safely boot from the ISO, as it just has the additional partition for (U)EFI to boot. The ISO wil lstill boot on sane computers.

Nik

What think you of Parted Magic? How does it compare to Slacko?

I ask because I am not so familiar with Slackware (though I don't know if it matters much for this job of resizing a partition); but I do know Parted Magic, and have used it before now several times.

https://partedmagic.com/

It also supports various file systems: ext2, ext3, ext4, fat16, fat32, ntfs, and reiserfs and has other useful features.

Bill

perhaps you're thinking of gparted, which is free.

dep

you can't open a terminal and su gparted? you might want it on an external boot, such as the linux system rescue disk, because you can't run it on a mounted partition.

dep

On Saturday 17 March 2018 20:18:23 William Morder wrote:

On Saturday 17 March 2018 19:54:40 dep wrote:

...

you can't open a terminal and su gparted? you might want it on an external boot, such as the linux system rescue disk, because you can't run it on a mounted partition.

dep

Right, and I don't intend to do so. I did want to run it for other hard drives, as well, for which gparted would be nice to run from command-line.

However, I did find a live CD version of gparted on SourceForge. I would have looked there earlier, but for some reason I have connection problems when using the latest versions of Firefox. When I connect to SourceForge with Icecat, SourceForge always blocks me; but with Firefox I can spoof my IP and get in. However, then I have big problems with Firefox, like my system freezes up when I am in the middle of stuff, or just now, when I found these links on SourceForge, I got disconnected almost immediately.

Like when your wife or girlfriend comes home drunk at 4 in the morning, "it's complicated"; and I don't know that I want the full explanation.

Anyway, so I found an iso image of gparted to download, and I consider this to be the best of all possible solutions.

Thanks for your patience.

Bill

Oh yeah, for anybody who is looking for the iso file of gparted: https://sourceforge.net/projects/gparted/files/latest/download

direct link here https://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/gparted/gparted-live-stable/0.30.0...

Bill

...

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On Saturday 17 March 2018 20:46:13 Felix Miata wrote:

William Morder composed on 2018-03-17 20:22 (UTC-0700):

...

Oh yeah, for anybody who is looking for the iso file of gparted: https://sourceforge.net/projects/gparted/files/latest/download

Seems silly to me to bother with a single purpose CD when you can use the granddaddy of all live Linux distros and have a standard toolset including gparted, or a DVD with an expanded toolset.

http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/knoppix/packages-cd.txt http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/knoppix/dvd/packages-dvd.txt

Don't call me silly, or I will have to work harder at perfecting my silly walk!

Knoppix is fine, no doubt, for those who are familiar with it. I did try it out, about ten years ago, when I was comparing Linux distros. I might check out the latest Knoppix live DVD, just to see what's in their toolset, but I doubt I would ever install it; so, in effect, it is still for me a single-purpose disc.

It's a matter of what one is familiar with; your granddaddy is not mine. If I had infinite time, and infinitely many different computers, I would install and learn all the different distros. I just want something that works well, is GNU/Linux, free/libre, and secure.

I don't like the SourceForge site, but it is a quick solution to my problem.

Bill

On Saturday 17 March 2018 21:25:04 Felix Miata wrote:

William Morder composed on 2018-03-17 20:58 (UTC-0700):

...

It's a matter of what one is familiar with; your granddaddy is not mine.

Not my granddaddy. Granddaddy of all live media Linux distros, toolset that's older than Ubuntu. You don't need to download or boot it to see what's in it. Just look at the two applist links I posted.

I did give the list a look, and it is impressive; however, it isn't GNU/Linux (or at least, the gnu.org site doesn't approve of Knoppix).

http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html

There is a distro based on Knoppix that is GNU/Linux: "Musix, a GNU+Linux distribution based on Knoppix, with special emphasis on audio production"; but I have other needs. I also don't necessary need a live disc, except for special tasks like this. I won't swear off comparing different distros, but I am getting more specific about my criteria and needs.

Anyway, I don't run any of the 'buntus (although I used to do so). I didn't like where Canonical was going, and wanted to get into Debian (which is also older than Ubuntu). Now, however, I don't like this systemd thing, so I am preparing to move on to Devuan, which sticks to the principles on which Debian was founded.

It is important to me to wean myself from non-free, proprietary software, and any software that I cannot use and modify however I wish.

I don't think of myself as a GNU/Linux purist, nor an evangelist or proselytiser for free/libre. And it might be that I will, on occasion, use packages that are non-free; but I do like to feel that I own my own computer, that I am in control of what goes on under the hood, and that I can hack my own system to make it do what I want.

Ergo, Knoppix doesn't appear to suit me, though I am glad to hear about its virtues, or to be corrected if you feel that I am wrong about it not being GNU/Linux. And I don't regard others as less enlightened for using another OS. (I even have good friends who run the rotten Apple and even Windoze; good folks who don't have the patience for Linux anything, but who also have to work and pay the bills, or whose jobs require them to run proprietary systems.) Other people have needs that are different from mine.

Bill

On Saturday 17 March 2018 23:58:25 Felix Miata wrote:

William Morder composed on 2018-03-18 02:19 (UTC-0700):

...

I did give the list a look, and it is impressive; however, it isn't GNU/Linux (or at least, the gnu.org site doesn't approve of Knoppix).

http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html

1-None of the top ten Linux distros from Distrowatch are there either - no Mint, no Fedora, no Ubuntu, no openSUSE, no Manjaro, etc. Trinity certainly isn't mentioned anywhere on that page. Why is being on that very limited list (of distros I never even heard of) important to you?

I don't want to use proprietary or non-free software. Trinity is included in a number of GNU/Linux distros, including exegnulinux, GnuSense, some Devuan, etc. TDE, so far as I know, is free/libre by design. Trinity isn't in that list because it is not an operating system, but only a desktop environment. Anyway, I told you that I wasn't a purist; I use Trinity because it works better for me.

2-I was recommending Knoppix as a tool suitable for anyone wishing to run gparted to repartition an existing installation, as well as other purposes dictating a live rather than installed OS. Though it can be installed, that's not how I use it.

It might be useful to me for that reason, because it has other tools. I only need a live disc for repartitioning at this particular time, not for long term. However, I won't knock it without having tried the most recent version, because I might find those tools useful at some point.

3-Knoppix not being on that list could be because of special software that enables its use by blind persons. It is nevertheless a free download, just like Debian, AntiX, Neon and many many more than the 12 that are on that list.

Free as in freedom, not free as in free beer. It is not just the cost, but also what I am legally allowed to do with my software. Software that is non-free or proprietary specifically forbids modifying the code, or using it in a manner other than that for which it was intended (i.e., "hacking" in the original sense of the word, as opposed to "cracking", which is doing illegal stuff like breaking into networks or other people's computers). I only want to be able to make my system do whatever I want, and to modify software if I so choose.

4-Being Debian based, and installable, Trinity should be usable on a HD installation of it without special effort.

No special effort. I just want what I want.

Bill

Am Sonntag, 18. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:

What think you of Parted Magic? How does it compare to Slacko?

It's expensive (provides a technical minor solution that can be solved for free with superiority) and can't do most of the interesting tasks, e.g. I usually customize my slacko sticks in a way that they perform different tasks automaticly when booting, so I can give them out to minor minions :-)

I ask because I am not so familiar with Slackware (though I don't know if it matters much for this job of resizing a partition); but I do know Parted Magic, and have used it before now several times.

slacko is just linux, nothing special.

https://partedmagic.com/

It also supports various file systems: ext2, ext3, ext4, fat16, fat32, ntfs, and reiserfs and has other useful features.

Bill

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I started to write about this under the post about upgrading and transitioning from Debian Jessie to Devuan Jessie. That would only confuse matters, however, so I am posting it here as a somewhat interesting diversion; or perhaps as an account of the morbid psychology of wannabe computer hackers on a quest for things that they know they probably can never attain and certainly ought never desire. Anyway ... here is an account of my dabbling in the black arts.

On the Debian pages they warn against creating a FrankenDebian: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian/

Too late! I already popped that cherry a long time ago. And in the course of my experiments, I tried installing a dual-boot system on a 64 GB flash drive. At that time, my desktop computer had just got fried by a massive power surge that knocked out the electricity in about one-third of the city here. It took me months to get a new motherboard and other parts that I needed. In the meanwhile, I was given an old Sony Vaio laptop by a friend, so that I could continue working in the real world on various writing and other projects, for which I have deadlines.

So I concocted this evil plan, in order to keep at least one of my operating systems actually operating, while on other partitions I experimented with various operating systems (although my heart was set on something GNU/Linux).

The only reason I ever made a separate boot partition is that I was doing some experimentation with installing a dual-boot system on a 64 GB flash drive, from which I ran my laptop. I was trying to create a system that I could use to boot up any computer from that flash drive.

I am glad to report that everything worked pretty well (running 1. Debian Jessie and 2. various other systems). So instead of the partitions you see listed above, I had it set up like so: 1st drive sda1 = / 30 (various operating systems, sometimes my old Kubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04; later other OSs, mostly Debian-like) sda2 = swap (4 GB) sda3 = /home - #2 to go with sda1 (216 GB) (This was a 250 GB hard drive)

2nd drive But everything booted from this drive: sdb1 = / - Debian Jessie with TDE (30 GB) This eventually became my main system, which I then transferred to my desktop computer (via flash drive), once I got it working again. sdb2 = /boot (2 GB) sdb3 = swap (4 GB) sdb4 = /home (to go with sdb1) 28 GB (This was a 64 GB flash drive.)

When one OS was booted, the corresponding partitions on the other OS were left unused, and vice-versa; although I could always open konqueror or other file managers as root, and transfer stuff back and forth when needed.

Or it was something like that, give or take a few GB, with a separate boot partition, so that everything booted from the same partition; with the added bonus that the laptop could not be booted unless I inserted the flash drive. The two different OSs shared the boot partition and swap, but I found that when I tried sharing a home directory, everything got messed up.

However, I cannot use it to boot other computers (yet), but I am still working on this problem. That's why I started making a separate boot partition, so that I could solve all these various problems, learn a new operating system (as I had been using various 'buntus), and keep working, all while using a laptop and a couple flash drives.

If anybody has anything to offer - for instance, how to make any computer boot from that flash drive? - I would be most grateful, as the experiment has been mostly successful otherwise.

Bill

On Friday 16 March 2018 14:27:08 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:

Am Freitag, 16. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:

...

...

If your home folder lives on the same partition as /, then you'll have some work to do :-)

Yeah ... I copied my home folder to another hard drive (a precaution for whenever I am about to experiment, or do something stupid); so that it would be possible to make my home folder something like sdb3, etc. ... if that is what you mean.

exactly. that's a good way not to loose your data :-)

...

Most of my important files are kept elsewhere, on other hard BIG drives; the root partion and home folder are installed on a 100 GB hard drive. And I only use the home folder for temporary files, which will eventually get moved to one of those other places. Otherwise, the only real purpose of my home folder is to keep all my settings intact.

If I follow what you're saying, then I could partition that 100 GB hard drive something like: sda1 = / sda2 = /boot sda3 = swap

But that seems like a waste of space, as even a generous root partition has never been bigger than about 30 GB, and a boot partition is maybe 2 or 3, and maybe 4-6 GB for swap -- which leaves at least 60 GB for what?

Or maybe something else would be better? Then I could use a partition on sdb as my home folder?

Space is cheap. Anyhow, you most likely will never use swap. And /boot does not need to be on a seperate partition, just keep it on /. You can always resize/create/erase partitions with gparted (puppylinux comes in handy for this), so it essentilly does not matter with what size you start, you can always change that later. 20GB for / is OK, make the rest /home. But before installing a new OS, please copy /home/your-user to /home/copy-of-your-user - and check twice that you use the right partition :-)

...

Thanks for your advice,

Bill

...

...

My current system is Debian Jessie, and runs pretty much like I want, except for some minor bugs. My biggest complaint is systemd, and I really want to go back to using sysvinit.

Also: I wonder if it is possible to switch to Devuan without doing a complete reinstallation? i.e., after changing over to sysvinit, can I enable Devuan repositories (and disable Debian), then do something like sudo apt-get dist-upgrade or whatever?

Bill

You can move from debian jessie to devuan jessie without problems, just follow the guide https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/stable-jessie-announce-052517 section "Upgrade". When you do the upgrade, please do it on a console, not on a X11 terminal.

Nik

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On Friday 16 March 2018 20:46:11 Glen Cunningham wrote:

On Saturday 17 March 2018 13:23:10 William Morder wrote:

<snip>

...

If anybody has anything to offer - for instance, how to make any computer boot from that flash drive? - I would be most grateful, as the experiment has been mostly successful otherwise.

Bill

G'day Bill, Have you tried Slax? https://www.slax.org/en/introduction.php A "proper" Debian on a flash drive. Only one thing, it does not have the TDE/Trinity desktop. However, there is "Slax with Trinity" https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Slax_with_Trinity which would be brilliant except that the "Persistent Changes" feature has been broken! I have tried to find how this feature can be enabled for the Slax with Trinity version, but I'm not smart enough. :-( Any help to fix this would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Glen

Yes, I tried several versions of Slackware: Slax, Salix, Slackware proper, and a few others (I think) that I can't remember, including, I believe, one that had Trinity already installed. Now, this was a few years ago, and maybe my computer skills have improved since then, but that didn't work for me.

Slackware systems appeal to me in theory, as Frankensteins are not such a problem (or so I hear); but in practice, I could not get a Slackware system to work for me.

If I had infinite computers to spare, and infinite time and patience, and infinite resources, and did not need to live in the real world, then I would give a Slackware system a go. As it is, though, my Debian system works pretty well, except for those minor bugs, and a couple of major problems: namely, the issue with sudo, and how to get rid of systemd and switch to sysvinit, and return to the paradise promised by Devuan.

Thanks for tempting me once again, though. If I ever get extra computers to spare ...

Bill

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On Friday 16 March 2018 23:45:01 Glen Cunningham wrote:

On Saturday 17 March 2018 16:00:40 William Morder wrote:

...

On Friday 16 March 2018 20:46:11 Glen Cunningham wrote:

...

On Saturday 17 March 2018 13:23:10 William Morder wrote:

<snip>

...

If anybody has anything to offer - for instance, how to make any computer boot from that flash drive? - I would be most grateful, as the experiment has been mostly successful otherwise.

Bill

G'day Bill, Have you tried Slax? https://www.slax.org/en/introduction.php A "proper" Debian on a flash drive. Only one thing, it does not have the TDE/Trinity desktop. However, there is "Slax with Trinity" https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Slax_with_Trinity which would be brilliant except that the "Persistent Changes" feature has been broken! I have tried to find how this feature can be enabled for the Slax with Trinity version, but I'm not smart enough. :-( Any help to fix this would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Glen

Yes, I tried several versions of Slackware: Slax, Salix, Slackware proper, and a few others (I think) that I can't remember, including, I believe, one that had Trinity already installed. Now, this was a few years ago, and maybe my computer skills have improved since then, but that didn't work for me.

Slackware systems appeal to me in theory, as Frankensteins are not such a problem (or so I hear); but in practice, I could not get a Slackware system to work for me.

Slax used to be a Slackware derivative, however since version 9 it is PURE DEBIAN! Sorry about the yell. :-(

So, if you are clued enough in Debian, can you please show me how to restore the "Persistent Changes" feature in the Slax with Trinity version? Ta, Glen

Thanks for the heads-up, didn't know that. CAPS LOCK IS PERFECTLY OKAY, TOO, IF ONE WISHES TO MAKE AN IMPORTANT POINT THAT CAN'T BE MADE OTHERWISE. (Of course, the previous sentence is a bad example of making such a point.)

To tell you the truth, though, I haven't dealt with the "Persistent Changes" feature at all. You are supposed to be able to choose that from the boot menu; that's as much as I can tell you offhand. The issue doesn't arise for me, because it's not there.

Is this for when you are using a live CD or DVD? Am I right?

Bill

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On Saturday 17 March 2018 00:27:16 Glen Cunningham wrote:

On Saturday 17 March 2018 18:00:36 William Morder wrote:

<big snip>

...

Is this for when you are using a live CD or DVD? Am I right?

Bill

No, just a standard Slax install on a USB stick. "Persistent Changes" does not compute on CD or DVD.

Glen

PS. If you have a spare USB stick, I think you will be impressed with the latest Slax as an alternative to your FrankenDebian. G.

You said that Slax is Debian as of version 9, and I am on Debian Jessie, which is 8.x (8.10 with upgrades, I believe). And I am still learning Debian. I used to run various 'buntus (mostly with KDE or TDE), and only in the past couple months have I got my Debian system to look and run almost exactly like my old Kubuntu (KDE 3.5) desktop.

I am still learning Debian myself, but I'm pretty good at figuring out stuff in a Debian-type system, so maybe I can do a little research here.

Once I have my desktop set up (I still want to change to Devuan), then maybe I will give Slax a try. I don't have a flash drive to spare, and I am too broke to splurge. However, I could maybe do that dual-boot on my flash drive using Slax on one of the partitions, but let me get my desktop set up first.

Bill

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On Sunday 18 March 2018 11:50:11 William Morder wrote:

On Saturday 17 March 2018 00:27:16 Glen Cunningham wrote:

<snip>

Okay, so do you mean that you are actually installing your system to a USB stick, or that you are copying the iso image to it, and using it to boot like a live CD or DVD?

Not exactly, you follow the Slax instructions https://www.slax.org/ug/starting.php IIRC. In Linux, just dd the .iso to appropriate writable media (I used a Sandisk USB 3.0 "thumb" drive. Then follow the instructions in the readme.txt file to make it bootable.

<more snippage>

When I boot up, I never see "Persistent Changes" in my menu choices (although I've heard about it). I can do a little research and see what I discover. Once I sort out my desktop, I can try installing Slax a USB, then see if I can figure out how "Persistent Changes" works.

"Persistent Changes" has been broken by the builder of the "Slax with Trinity" image. However, I'm still looking to see if I can restore this, for me, essential feature. A post in the origin thread that announced the "Slax with Trinity" asking for this got no response. :-(

Glen

On Friday 16 March 2018 16.57:49 Baron wrote:

Question: Where could I find how this process is triggered ?

Doesn't the message say anything? In my case I usually had a message like "Start job running for..." that gave some clue to the reason.

Thierry

Thierry de Coulon wrote on 03/16/2018 09:22 AM:

On Friday 16 March 2018 15.13:31 Baron wrote:

...

Hi Guys,

(...)

...

Problem: On boot up, maybe every second or third time, I get a black screen with "[*** ] Start job running - ~0.XX seconds. 1:30."

This has, I'm pretty sure, to do with systemd. I got that several time and yes, when you don't know about it it's quite difficult to solve.

I agree, I have similar issues... sometime boots are clean, sometimes various boot-time tasks take a noticeable number of seconds while a "Start job running" message is displayed, and sometimes that message waits for the entire 90 seconds before timing out and the boot continues to completion.

Unlike the original poster, though, if I wait the system does eventually boot into what seems to be a fully-working state (even if some of the boot tasks say "Failed" after the 90-second timeout).

It all seems completely unpredictable here. I have several systems running debian stable (although only one using TDE), and they all behave like this.

So I just put it down to some race condition(s) in systemd that I suppose will get fixed at some point but for now is just something that I have to put up with.

It doesn't appear to be in any way related to TDE, though.

Doc

On Friday 16 March 2018 07:22:28 am Thierry de Coulon wrote:

On Friday 16 March 2018 15.13:31 Baron wrote:

...

Hi Guys,

(...)

...

Problem: On boot up, maybe every second or third time, I get a black screen with "[*** ] Start job running - ~0.XX seconds. 1:30."

This has, I'm pretty sure, to do with systemd. I got that several time and yes, when you don't know about it it's quite difficult to solve.

Most often it has to do with some partition having changed UUID. Did you modify your partition layout, or simply reformat one?

I've seen such messages linked to nfs shares too.

Anyway, the first thing is to identify what the job is running for, then we should be able to debug.

Thierry

+1

I actually had the error message (aprox) " ~disk by uuid"

1.compare uuid's in "/etc/fstab" 2. with the ones produced by running the command "blkid:

Hi Felix, Thank you for your help.

On Friday 16 March 2018 17:02:17 Felix Miata wrote:

Baron composed on 2018-03-16 14:13 (UTC):

...

If I login with the root password, I get pages and pages of what I think maybe logs. At the end of this if I "StartX" I get my normal desktop. At this point if I logout and hard boot the machine, everything comes up as normal.

I haven't a clue what is going on here... Help !

Instead of startx, try

journalctl | grep failed

and see if it reports what failed.

If I run this now, will I get anything useful ?

As others suggested, the problem is a systemd race condition. Did this start after an update to the current initrd, or after a update that installed a new kernel? Do you have a boot menu that allows you to select to boot with an older kernel, which if selected behaves normally? If so, an initrd rebuild might make the problem go away.

If Q4OS is a Plymouth user, you might try disabling it by adding to cmdline

plymouth.enable=0

I did see something about "plymouth" when the pages of lines were flashing by.

With or without plymouth, if you remove "quiet" from the cmdline, you might be able as boot proceeds to spot the initial mention of the start job that is failing.

Hi Felix,

On Friday 16 March 2018 17:44:08 Felix Miata wrote:

Baron composed on 2018-03-16 17:26 (UTC):

...

Felix Miata wrote:

...

Instead of startx, try

journalctl | grep failed

and see if it reports what failed.

If I run this now, will I get anything useful ?

If you're in a normal boot, try:

journalctl -b -1 | grep failed

instead. s/-1/-2/ if you want to look at the 2nd previous boot. Either presume Q4OS has persistent journaling enabled. Otherwise you'll get nothing useful.

Running "journalctl | grep failed" as root gets me

tsc: Fast TSC calibration failed. (colord:787): failed to get session [pid 537]: Unknown error -2

Which means absolutely nothing to me !

Thanks:

Hi Gene, Thank you for your reply,

On Friday 16 March 2018 17:44:08 Gene Heskett wrote:

On Friday 16 March 2018 10:13:31 Baron wrote:

...

Hi Guys,

An annoying issue has appeared ! I'm running Q4OS, Trinity Desktop on an AMD dual core machine with 2Gb ram and 500Gb HDD.

Problem: On boot up, maybe every second or third time, I get a black screen with "[*** ] Start job running - ~0.XX seconds. 1:30." If I Ctrl Alt Del the machine restarts with the same screen and message. If I let it continue, I then get a page of text with "Ctrl D" to continue, "Or enter Root Password to Login" Using "Ctrl D" everything just stops and I have to hard boot the machine, It then goes back to the start job again. If I login with the root password, I get pages and pages of what I think maybe logs. At the end of this if I "StartX" I get my normal desktop. At this point if I logout and hard boot the machine, everything comes up as normal.

I haven't a clue what is going on here... Help !

Thanks Guys:

That waddles and quacks like an e2fsck, and may be indicative of a failing hard drive. Get a report from it with smartctl.

I can't find "smartctrl" on this machine, is it something that I have to install ?

Thanks:

Thanks John,

On Friday 16 March 2018 19:24:15 Pisini, John wrote:

https://www.smartmontools.org/

Getting it downloaded now.

No problem John, thanks for the update, I would have struggled with compiling it anyway.

Thanks:

On Friday 16 March 2018 19:41:01 Pisini, John wrote:

Sorry should have been clearer apt-get install smartmontools

Now installed. I'll report back.

Hi!

it's 200 GB, see https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822144184

Execute "cat /proc/partitions", that should show you 200 GB, too.

nik

Am Freitag, 16. März 2018 schrieb Baron:

Hi Guys,

A quick run of "smartctl /dev/sda -a" gives me no errors. Log follows:-

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Model Family: Maxtor DiamondMax 10 (SATA/300) Device Model: Maxtor 6V200E0 Serial Number: V40KPSSG LU WWN Device Id: 0 150500 7da7feb4f Firmware Version: VA111630 User Capacity: 203,928,109,056 bytes [203 GB] Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13/1532D revision 0 Local Time is: Fri Mar 16 20:22:57 2018 GMT SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled

I thought that this disk was 500Gb, it says above 203Gb, or is that value the used space. It shows 458Gb + 25Gb in "My Computer" It also shows the 458Gb partition as sdf1.

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values: Offline data collection status: (0x80) Offline data collection activity was never started. Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled. Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed without error or no self-test has ever been run. Total time to complete Offline data collection: ( 4622) seconds. Offline data collection capabilities: (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate. Auto Offline data collection on/off support. Suspend Offline collection upon new command. Offline surface scan supported. Self-test supported. No Conveyance Self-test supported. Selective Self-test supported. SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering power-saving mode. Supports SMART auto save timer. Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported. General Purpose Logging supported. Short self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes. Extended self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 90) minutes. SCT capabilities: (0x0021) SCT Status supported. SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 32 Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0027 208 208 063 Pre-fail Always - 13404 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 75 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 253 253 063 Pre-fail Always - 0 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 211 000 Old_age Always - 0 8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0027 251 240 187 Pre-fail Always - 54359 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 251 251 000 Old_age Always - 718 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x002b 253 252 157 Pre-fail Always - 0 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x002b 253 252 223 Pre-fail Always - 0 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 252 252 000 Old_age Always - 648 189 High_Fly_Writes 0x003a 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 060 060 000 Old_age Always - 40 (Min/Max 13/40) 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 0 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 0 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0032 034 253 000 Old_age Always - 40 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 1132 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0008 199 199 000 Old_age Offline - 0 200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 202 Data_Address_Mark_Errs 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 203 Run_Out_Cancel 0x000b 253 252 180 Pre-fail Always - 0 204 Soft_ECC_Correction 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 205 Thermal_Asperity_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 207 Spin_High_Current 0x002a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 208 Spin_Buzz 0x002a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 210 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 211 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 212 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0

SMART Error Log Version: 1 No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 No self-tests have been logged. [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1 SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS 1 0 0 Not_testing 2 0 0 Not_testing 3 0 0 Not_testing 4 0 0 Not_testing 5 0 0 Not_testing Selective self-test flags (0x0): After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk. If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

Hi Nikolaus, Thank you for your help.

On Friday 16 March 2018 21:32:37 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:

https://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/maxtor/en_us/documentation/data _sheets/diamondmax_10_data_sheet.pdf

Am Freitag, 16. März 2018 schrieb Dr. Nikolaus Klepp:

...

Hi!

it's 200 GB, see https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822144184

Execute "cat /proc/partitions", that should show you 200 GB, too.

nik

Snipped log info:

This is the output of "cat/proc/partitions" major minor #blocks name

2 0 4 fd0 11 0 1048575 sr0 8 0 199148544 sda 8 1 2095104 sda1 8 2 26218496 sda2 8 3 170833920 sda3 8 16 488386584 sdb 8 17 488385536 sdb1

I'm getting totally confused ! I was sure that I had two 500Gb HDD in this machine, but it seems not. It also seems that the 200Gb HDD is swap, boot and root drive and that sdb is home.

PS. The machine booted up as normal this morning...

Thanks:

On Friday 16 March 2018 18:36:26 Gene Heskett wrote:

On Friday 16 March 2018 15:24:15 Pisini, John wrote:

...

https://www.smartmontools.org/

This is a better address, I pulled the one I gave out of "you know where". Blame it on oldtimers...

There is another possibility I should have mentioned. If your sata data cables are red, theres something in the red dye that destroys the cable in 4 or 5 years. pull the covers so you can see the cable(s) and give them a gentle push with a stick, after putting a tail -fn50 on the syslog. If the log blows up when you do the stick bit for a 1/4" movement, its time for new cables, hopefully not red ones.

This has been a problem for cables with that dye since the mid 70's of the last century when the J.A.Pan company started using it in their cb radio microphone cables. You can cut the red wire off 1/2" from the end that has broken, and pour the copper out of the red jacketed conductors plastic sleeve as a dark brown powder. Its a very poor conductor in that state.

In addition to being an oldtimer at 83, I am also a C.E.T. with 68+ years of chaseing electrons for a living.

...

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 3:22 PM, Baron baron@linuxmaniac.net wrote:

...

Hi Gene, Thank you for your reply,

On Friday 16 March 2018 17:44:08 Gene Heskett wrote:

...

On Friday 16 March 2018 10:13:31 Baron wrote:

...

Hi Guys,

An annoying issue has appeared ! I'm running Q4OS, Trinity Desktop on an AMD dual core machine with 2Gb ram and 500Gb HDD.

Problem: On boot up, maybe every second or third time, I get a black screen with "[*** ] Start job running - ~0.XX seconds. 1:30." If I Ctrl Alt Del the machine restarts with the same screen and message. If I let it continue, I then get a page of text with "Ctrl D" to continue, "Or enter Root Password to Login" Using "Ctrl D" everything just stops and I have to hard boot the machine, It then goes back to the start job again. If I login with the root password, I get pages and pages of what I think maybe logs. At the end of this if I "StartX" I get my normal desktop. At this point if I logout and hard boot the machine, everything comes up as normal.

I haven't a clue what is going on here... Help !

Thanks Guys:

That waddles and quacks like an e2fsck, and may be indicative of a failing hard drive. Get a report from it with smartctl.

I can't find "smartctrl" on this machine, is it something that I have to install ?

Thanks:

Best Regards: Baron

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On Saturday 17 March 2018 03:08:21 Baron wrote:

Hi Gene,

On Friday 16 March 2018 23:33:59 Gene Heskett wrote:

...

I pulled the one I gave out of "you

...

know where". Blame it on oldtimers...

Not to worry I'm only 70 :-) so a bit of catching up to do :-)

...

There is another possibility I should have mentioned. If your sata data cables are red, theres something in the red dye that destroys the cable in 4 or 5 years. pull the covers so you can see the cable(s) and give them a gentle push with a stick, after putting a tail -fn50 on the syslog. If the log blows up when you do the stick bit for a 1/4" movement, its time for new cables, hopefully not red ones.

This has been a problem for cables with that dye since the mid 70's of the last century when the J.A.Pan company started using it in their cb radio microphone cables. You can cut the red wire off 1/2" from the end that has broken, and pour the copper out of the red jacketed conductors plastic sleeve as a dark brown powder. Its a very poor conductor in that state.

Useful information ! All my sata cables are red.

...

In addition to being an oldtimer at 83, I am also a C.E.T. with 68+ years of chaseing electrons for a living.

I'm struggling with poor health at the moment and this cold one day and warm the next isn't helping.

It feels good for once to be the youngster in the group. (I just turned 60 about a month ago.) I am sad to say that, though reasonably healthy, I am also starting to feel my age. Worse yet, I am surrounded by people who believe that life ends at about age 35.

This is some interesting and useful information about SATA cables, as all of mine are red, as well. Indeed, I don't recall ever seeing them any other color.

Nice thing about getting older, though: one tends to remember what is really important (stuff like this), and only forget things like appointments, or where I put my glasses.

Bill

I've retitled this thread, due to getting far off-topic.

On Saturday 17 March 2018 06:07:18 Gene Heskett wrote: On Saturday 17 March 2018 07:09:34 William Morder wrote:

...

On Saturday 17 March 2018 03:08:21 Baron wrote:

...

Hi Gene,

On Friday 16 March 2018 23:33:59 Gene Heskett wrote:

...

I pulled the one I gave out of "you

...

know where". Blame it on oldtimers...

Not to worry I'm only 70 :-) so a bit of catching up to do :-)

...

There is another possibility I should have mentioned. If your sata data cables are red, theres something in the red dye that destroys the cable in 4 or 5 years. pull the covers so you can see the cable(s) and give them a gentle push with a stick, after putting a tail -fn50 on the syslog. If the log blows up when you do the stick bit for a 1/4" movement, its time for new cables, hopefully not red ones.

This has been a problem for cables with that dye since the mid 70's of the last century when the J.A.Pan company started using it in their cb radio microphone cables. You can cut the red wire off 1/2" from the end that has broken, and pour the copper out of the red jacketed conductors plastic sleeve as a dark brown powder. Its a very poor conductor in that state.

Useful information ! All my sata cables are red.

...

In addition to being an oldtimer at 83, I am also a C.E.T. with 68+ years of chaseing electrons for a living.

I'm struggling with poor health at the moment and this cold one day and warm the next isn't helping.

It feels good for once to be the youngster in the group. (I just turned 60 about a month ago.) I am sad to say that, though reasonably healthy, I am also starting to feel my age. Worse yet, I am surrounded by people who believe that life ends at about age 35.

This is some interesting and useful information about SATA cables, as all of mine are red, as well. Indeed, I don't recall ever seeing them any other color.

They come in black, tan. blue and yellow. As the retired CE of a tv station, whose IT guy was buying HD's in 24 packs for the video servers he's built, he has a standing order to stash any cables they come with away for me if they aren't red. He was using the 10k rpm stuff, whose lifetime is less than the red cables, cable failures are not a problem, keeping the 10k rust cool is. So I manage to keep 1 or 2 non-reds to go in whatever I might build handy. For what I build to run linuxcnc on, I've also found the $50 on sale 60GB SSD's are noticeably faster than spinning rust.

...

Nice thing about getting older, though: one tends to remember what is really important (stuff like this), and only forget things like appointments, or where I put my glasses.

Yeah, I was supposed to go let the vampires have a sample yesterday to check my INI on my warfarin dose, but plumb forgot about it what with pulling a gear out of a lathes apron for a guy in WI who's gear is missing a tooth, a tooth I'll never need because the computer, an r-pi-3b, does all that better than the gear, ploting a wheel chair ramp into the front deck in between these ^%$#@ nor-easters, and taking some clean clothes to the shop where my wife is currently wearing a cast on a broken leg, and its not scheduled for removal till late May. A heavy smoker, she has paper mache bones, and at 83 lbs, zero padding. I quit cold turkey 30 years ago, just before we got married, but she is well and truly hooked.

I'm a DM-II and have managed to lose from 215 when I retired in 2002, down to around 155 which helps with the sugar, and an abused back. I'd like to lose another 10 or 15, getting totally rid of the bay window, but I like to eat too.

I am a big guy, so it I could get my weight down below 230 or 240, I would think about training for the Olympics. But right now my weight has been going way up, because I also like to eat, and unfortunately that's about my only means of entertainment.

Got myself a bike, but it needs work; but I really like biking to get around and run my errands, do shopping, etc., and just happen to get exercise as a fringe benefit. However, when living in SF (or nowadays almost any big city), just owning a decent bike is a source of constant stress, because the bike thieves are incredibly bold, and the police (except for occasional press releases) do little to stop the thefts.

However, if you live somewhere that biking is a viable option, I highly recommend it. You dislike it for about the first week, and then you get to like it so much that you cannot imagine life without it.

Also, drink lots of water, and eat fresh fruit. I got that from somebody long ago who lost something like 200 lbs, and it does work. But then, I need to get with it myself again.

Bill

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On Saturday 17 March 2018 08:09:28 Gene Heskett wrote:

On Saturday 17 March 2018 10:42:54 William Morder wrote:

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I've retitled this thread, due to getting far off-topic.

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On Saturday 17 March 2018 06:07:18 Gene Heskett wrote:

On Saturday 17 March 2018 07:09:34 William Morder wrote:

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On Saturday 17 March 2018 03:08:21 Baron wrote:

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Hi Gene,

On Friday 16 March 2018 23:33:59 Gene Heskett wrote:

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I pulled the one I gave out of "you

> know where". Blame it on oldtimers...

Not to worry I'm only 70 :-) so a bit of catching up to do :-)

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There is another possibility I should have mentioned. If your sata data cables are red, theres something in the red dye that destroys the cable in 4 or 5 years. pull the covers so you can see the cable(s) and give them a gentle push with a stick, after putting a tail -fn50 on the syslog. If the log blows up when you do the stick bit for a 1/4" movement, its time for new cables, hopefully not red ones.

This has been a problem for cables with that dye since the mid 70's of the last century when the J.A.Pan company started using it in their cb radio microphone cables. You can cut the red wire off 1/2" from the end that has broken, and pour the copper out of the red jacketed conductors plastic sleeve as a dark brown powder. Its a very poor conductor in that state.

Useful information ! All my sata cables are red.

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In addition to being an oldtimer at 83, I am also a C.E.T. with 68+ years of chaseing electrons for a living.

I'm struggling with poor health at the moment and this cold one day and warm the next isn't helping.

It feels good for once to be the youngster in the group. (I just turned 60 about a month ago.) I am sad to say that, though reasonably healthy, I am also starting to feel my age. Worse yet, I am surrounded by people who believe that life ends at about age 35.

This is some interesting and useful information about SATA cables, as all of mine are red, as well. Indeed, I don't recall ever seeing them any other color.

They come in black, tan. blue and yellow. As the retired CE of a tv station, whose IT guy was buying HD's in 24 packs for the video servers he's built, he has a standing order to stash any cables they come with away for me if they aren't red. He was using the 10k rpm stuff, whose lifetime is less than the red cables, cable failures are not a problem, keeping the 10k rust cool is. So I manage to keep 1 or 2 non-reds to go in whatever I might build handy. For what I build to run linuxcnc on, I've also found the $50 on sale 60GB SSD's are noticeably faster than spinning rust.

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Nice thing about getting older, though: one tends to remember what is really important (stuff like this), and only forget things like appointments, or where I put my glasses.

Yeah, I was supposed to go let the vampires have a sample yesterday to check my INI on my warfarin dose, but plumb forgot about it what with pulling a gear out of a lathes apron for a guy in WI who's gear is missing a tooth, a tooth I'll never need because the computer, an r-pi-3b, does all that better than the gear, ploting a wheel chair ramp into the front deck in between these ^%$#@ nor-easters, and taking some clean clothes to the shop where my wife is currently wearing a cast on a broken leg, and its not scheduled for removal till late May. A heavy smoker, she has paper mache bones, and at 83 lbs, zero padding. I quit cold turkey 30 years ago, just before we got married, but she is well and truly hooked.

I'm a DM-II and have managed to lose from 215 when I retired in 2002, down to around 155 which helps with the sugar, and an abused back. I'd like to lose another 10 or 15, getting totally rid of the bay window, but I like to eat too.

I am a big guy, so it I could get my weight down below 230 or 240, I would think about training for the Olympics. But right now my weight has been going way up, because I also like to eat, and unfortunately that's about my only means of entertainment.

Got myself a bike, but it needs work; but I really like biking to get around and run my errands, do shopping, etc., and just happen to get exercise as a fringe benefit. However, when living in SF (or nowadays almost any big city), just owning a decent bike is a source of constant stress, because the bike thieves are incredibly bold, and the police (except for occasional press releases) do little to stop the thefts.

However, if you live somewhere that biking is a viable option, I highly recommend it. You dislike it for about the first week, and then you get to like it so much that you cannot imagine life without it.

My 2 wheeled transport has generally had an IC engine, somewhere in the 350cc to 1 liter sized between my knees since the early 70's. Was pretty good at carving corners & trimming footpegs, but had to realize my biking days were about over when I could see my reflexes slowing. Estimated half a million since I used one for a chair car for nearly 30 years. So I sold my last one about 15 years back, and bought a pickup, several since. They come in handy when you are a home owner and do your own remodelling etc. The short boxes are a pain, but thats what full crew cab models come with. And even those are like driving the Queen Mary. I got the missus a toy rav4, but its just not quite big enough to stick a pile of 2x8's in.

True, if your reflexes have slowed to the point where you would be endangering yourself, that's rather counter-productive.

I did have a motorcycle, but for me that was more trouble than it was worth. A truck, however, is very handy. I miss my Dodge RamCharger 4WD. If I must have a vehicle, I want it to be either cheap to run, or very good for big jobs; the RamCharger was not cheap, but it was good, solid and dependable.

You might also try something like Hatha Yoga or T'ai Chi. They require a little instruction, but then not much space or equipment.

The main thing is, keep moving somehow. Walking is good exercise, but even my joints are starting to give me pain. All I know is, not moving is a bad sign.

Bill

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On Saturday 17 March 2018 13:28:35 deloptes wrote:

William Morder wrote:

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I am a big guy, so it I could get my weight down below 230 or 240, I would think about training for the Olympics. But right now my weight has been going way up, because I also like to eat, and unfortunately that's about my only means of entertainment.

Thats not much of a problem - the question is what you eat. If you eat vegetables or fruits it would be fine, I guess, combined with some sports would help. For example there is a bike trainer that you can do while watching the news, or reading a book.

There's a bike trainer (I think A-1 was the brand name) that uses your existing bike, if you have one; but that doesn't do the workout for arms and the rest of the body. I like it because it doesn't take up a lot of space except when you're actually using it; folds up and is about the size of a briefcase. And then you also have your actual bike for riding outdoors if you want. But those other bike trainers (the ones take up a lot of space, and can't be folded up into a compact size and set out of the way) will not work for me. And I did try an exercise bike many years ago, but found that I would rather be outside in the fresh air, riding an actual bike.

Bill

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On Sunday 18 March 2018 00:43:45 Felix Miata wrote:

William Morder composed on 2018-03-17 07:42 (UTC-0700):

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Also, drink lots of water, and eat fresh fruit. I got that from somebody long ago who lost something like 200 lbs, and it does work. But then, I need to get with it myself again.

I was past 60 when I lost 24% of my body weight in 16 months purely by smart food shopping. That was over 3 years ago and I haven't gained any back. When you don't have what you shouldn't eat, you eat what you should, or nothing.

I used what and how to eat recommendations from the following who either wrote books or have web sites or both:

Don Colbert MD Joel Fuhrman MD Steven Pratt MD Dr Mark Hyman Dr Steven Masley Dr David Perlmutter Dr Daniel G Amen

Some of these show up on PBS and/or TBN TV occasionally, which is how I was originally exposed to 6 of those 7.

I have been trying out a very old method that seems to be coming back: fasting, but modified according to my own life and limitations. Not an absolute fast, but most days I find I can live quite contentedly on raw fruits and vegetables, and maybe a little bread. (I bake my own whole grain sourdough.) If I crave protein, there are always non-meat sources, like beans, legumes, nuts, and so on.

All those ancient sages who went off to live in the wilderness, absorbed in meditation and fasting, and then lived to 90 or 100 years: maybe they were on to something. There were a couple shows on PBS about this so-called fasting diet; but like I said, it is only reducing calorie intake for most of the week (maybe 4 or 5 days) then having real meals on the other two days.

Long ago I read a book, *Diet for a Small Planet*, by Frances Moore Lappe (I think there's an accent in her last name). Beans and whole grain rice, for example, make a complete protein; the same for other combinations, like hummus and pita bread, or even peanut butter and whole grain bread (although not so much protein in peanut butter by itself). I'm not a vegetarian, but I try to cut back on the meat.

Then a couple times a week, I have a bigger meal, with actual meat. I avoid fried foods, don't smoke, and generally eat pretty healthy. My only real vice is coffee, so I splurge and make sure it's really good coffee.

My problem is how to get exercise while living in a part of the city that is all concrete. If I just got more exercise, I think I would be doing great, but my circumstances are not good. Still, everything changes, and things are slowly getting better again.

Bill

wofgdkncxojef@gmail.com composed on 2018-03-19 00:22 (UTC+0100):

cut all fats

That is an unfortunate myth. "Current evidence does not clearly support cardiovascular guidelines that encourage high consumption of polyunsaturated fatty acids and low consumption of total saturated fats."[1]

The fats to eliminate are trans fats and interesterified fats, and to minimize, most liquid fats (vegetable oils except for olive and coconut) and polyunsaturated fats.

The problems are media, textbooks, doctors and medical schools haven't yet caught up to all available facts, and food industry inertia, which tends to maximize profit by producing what people think they want and need rather than what they should want and do need.

Increasing saturated fat intake generally *reduces* arterial plaque buildup, increases HDL, decreases bad LDL, and increases good LDL[2].

Sugars and simple carbs that quickly convert to sugar during digestion (e.g. boxed cereals and commercially produced breads, which BTW are almost all GMO) increase hunger and increase insulin (one of the hunger hormones) production, which stimulates fat accumulation by converting the excess sugar to fat.

Low- or reduced-fat foods generally "feature" proportionately higher bad carbs, retard satiety and induce over-eating.

Fats reduce hunger.

[1] http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/1846638/association-dietary-circulating-supplement-fatty-acids-coronary-risk-systematic-review

[2] http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/25/11/2265

On Friday 16 March 2018 15:22:22 Baron wrote:

Hi Gene, Thank you for your reply,

On Friday 16 March 2018 17:44:08 Gene Heskett wrote:

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On Friday 16 March 2018 10:13:31 Baron wrote:

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Hi Guys,

An annoying issue has appeared ! I'm running Q4OS, Trinity Desktop on an AMD dual core machine with 2Gb ram and 500Gb HDD.

Problem: On boot up, maybe every second or third time, I get a black screen with "[*** ] Start job running - ~0.XX seconds. 1:30." If I Ctrl Alt Del the machine restarts with the same screen and message. If I let it continue, I then get a page of text with "Ctrl D" to continue, "Or enter Root Password to Login" Using "Ctrl D" everything just stops and I have to hard boot the machine, It then goes back to the start job again. If I login with the root password, I get pages and pages of what I think maybe logs. At the end of this if I "StartX" I get my normal desktop. At this point if I logout and hard boot the machine, everything comes up as normal.

I haven't a clue what is going on here... Help !

Thanks Guys:

That waddles and quacks like an e2fsck, and may be indicative of a failing hard drive. Get a report from it with smartctl.

I can't find "smartctrl" on this machine, is it something that I have to install ?

Thanks:

Yes, smartctl-tools iirc.