7 Sep
2023
7 Sep
'23
1:02 p.m.
Hi,
do you know how I can disable the sending of the messages of the list to my
email?
I tried in gmane, but couldn't find where I can set it. I also searched on
the TDE home page but couldn't find out.
thank you in advance
BR
7 Sep
7 Sep
1:26 p.m.
On Thu September 7 2023 13:02:54 deloptes via tde-users wrote:
do you know how I can disable the sending of the
messages of the list to my
email?
I tried in gmane, but couldn't find where I can set it. I also searched on
the TDE home page but couldn't find out.
At the bottom of each email from the list it says:
To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
You need to do this from the address to which the emails were sent.
--Mike
1:56 p.m.
On Thursday 07 September 2023 13:26:37 Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
On Thu September 7 2023 13:02:54 deloptes via
tde-users wrote:
I believe what's intended is that he doesn't want emails showing his personal
email address to anybody indiscriminately; this is a complaint in which I
share. He wants (I think) the "to" and "from" to show his name, but
then
<users(a)trinitydesktop.org> as his email address.
In a vain attempt to avert this problem, I created a special email template,
with my "Reply to" line specifically using the Trinity users address, but
this still only works for when I write to the list using my template. When I
send a reply (e.g., this very email), I must make sure to change those lines
manually, otherwise my personal email address is revealed, and I get
duplicate emails to both the TDE mailing list address and also to my personal
email address, so apparently my personal email address is revealed, anyway,
almost no matter what I do to prevent it.
At the moment, this creates no real problems, as I find most people on the
list are pleasant enough, and I don't mind getting the occasional email,
intentional or otherwise, from relative strangers. In the past, however, I
used to get a lot of spam and phishing attempts and such, so I would like to
avoid them.
If there is some way to make that more permanent (that is, to show my email
address only as <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> and not as my personal email),
then I would like to know, or to have it implemented as a kind of general
policy on the list. In the meanwhile, I work with what I have.
Bill
do you know how I can disable the sending of the
messages of the list to
my email?
I tried in gmane, but couldn't find where I can set it. I also searched
on the TDE home page but couldn't find out.
At the bottom of each email from the list it says:
To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
You need to do this from the address to which the emails were sent.
--Mike
2:24 p.m.
On Thu September 7 2023 13:56:39 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
If there is some way to make that more permanent (that
is, to show my email
address only as <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> and not as my personal email),
then I would like to know, or to have it implemented as a kind of general
policy on the list. In the meanwhile, I work with what I have.
Hi Bill,
Slávek sets TDE policy, not I, but I do administer some non-TDE mailing
lists. As to those I would be opposed to any attempt to hide the author
of emails. Fighting spam is hard enough without everyone posting as the
same fake address.
Also be advised that in addition to your self CC your actual email address
appears numerous times in the headers of the email - for tracking and
authentication purposes - and thus is still available for spammers to harvest
//
As to Deloptes original question, I am unclear as to whether they want to
unsubscribe versus remain subscribed but not receive emails because they
are using Gmane. If the latter they can click on the archive link at the
bottom of list messages, log in, and at top right change their Mailman
Settings / Global Mailman preferences / Delivery status to disabled.
--Mike
2:37 p.m.
On Thursday 07 September 2023 14:24:11 Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
Hi Bill,
Sl�vek sets TDE policy, not I, but I do administer some non-TDE mailing
lists. As to those I would be opposed to any attempt to hide the author
of emails. Fighting spam is hard enough without everyone posting as the
same fake address.
Also be advised that in addition to your self CC your actual email address
appears numerous times in the headers of the email - for tracking and
authentication purposes - and thus is still available for spammers to
harvest
Well okay, I can see that. But it still shows up online in the mailing list
archive, which has nothing to do with that.
I realize that I cannot entirely escape spammers, etc., and I can see your
point about having to know our real email addresses in order to fight against
them. All the same, I would like to keep that kind of stuff hidden as much as
possible, at least a little harder to find.
Bill
3:32 p.m.
Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
As to Deloptes original question, I am unclear as to
whether they want to
unsubscribe versus remain subscribed but not receive emails because they
are using Gmane. If the latter they can click on the archive link at the
bottom of list messages, log in, and at top right change their Mailman
Settings / Global Mailman preferences / Delivery status to disabled.
Delopes is a he :) They are (if in one person) anomaly :)
It is unusual feeling being called they, even if I understand the politeness
in the background. I just want to say it is not necessary for me.
As of mailman ... I am not even sure I subscribed to Mailman. I recall there
was a discussion I initiated 1-2y ago and unsubscribed/subscribed and since
then I am getting the mails.
I tried the "Forgot your password" bit it is not working for the e-mail.
Could it be that I am still subscribed only to gmane?
4:12 p.m.
On Thursday 07 September 2023 15:32:58 deloptes via tde-users wrote:
Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
> As to Deloptes original question, I am unclear as to whether they want to
Delopes is a he :) They are (if in one person) anomaly :)
It is unusual feeling being called they, even if I understand the
politeness in the background. I just want to say it is not necessary for
me.
Ah, you have got caught up in our culture wars. It is a pity that this stupid
non-question has become an obsession for so many people who take different
sides and evidently do not know at all anything about, say, linguistics or
the established etymologies of words.
I, too, get annoyed by this kind of misuse of language, which is a kind of
pretension to some "better knowledge"; but the funny thing is, practically
everybody is wrong on this matter.
The use of *they* as a kind of indeterminate form can be considered both right
and wrong, depending on one's point of view. It is used to be deliberately
non-specific, or maybe "polite" usage: neither male nor female, neither
singular nor plural, nor giving other indications about one's relations to
others (as one finds in languages other than English). I think maybe it's
because English lost the use of gender in language for ordinary words. I
don't hear about people debating whether, in other languages, a wall or a
house ought to be masculine or feminine, etc. That part of the culture wars
seems to be peculiarly an American phenomenon, or at least it is very much
anglocentric.
And yet, I must point out that the use of the words *they* and *them* in this
sort of indeterminate or "polite" sense is actually quite ancient, and can be
traced back a part of speech that was lost. There are traces of this, for
example, in French, as when one says "On dit" (They say), as in, "They say
it's going to rain sometime later today." Who is this "they"?
This seventh form or declension (not sure if my terms are correct here, as
it's been decades since university) dropped out of most Indo-European
languages sometime at the brink of the historical record. It used to exist (I
believe) in Old Irish and the other oldest European languages, but then
gradually disappeared.
Personally, I wish scholars, linguists, grammarians, makers of dictionaries,
politicians -- whoever it is that gets to decide these matters -- could get
it together, and come up with a kind of all-purpose, inclusive term (one that
doesn't offend anybody) to cover this problem of the "third gender" or third
sex; not to make any kind of political statement, but only because it is a
concept that is recognized in many cultures already, and can be found in our
own history, going back before the Classical period.
And then maybe we could all get back to living our lives again, instead of
fighting these stupid culture wars over things that aren't even real.
Just my opinion ...
Bill
4:46 p.m.
William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Thursday 07 September 2023 15:32:58 deloptes via tde-users wrote:
Well, today using they is signalling progressiveness. AFAIR from the English
classes "you" is sufficiently polite and would prefer this as pronoun
reffering my person.
Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
> As to Deloptes original question, I am unclear as to whether they want
> to
Delopes is a he :) They are (if in one person) anomaly :)
It is unusual feeling being called they, even if I understand the
politeness in the background. I just want to say it is not necessary for
me.
Ah, you have got caught up in our culture wars. It is a pity that this
stupid non-question has become an obsession for so many people who take
different sides and evidently do not know at all anything about, say,
linguistics or the established etymologies of words.
I, too, get annoyed by this kind of misuse of
language, which is a kind of
pretension to some "better knowledge"; but the funny thing is, practically
everybody is wrong on this matter.
The use of *they* as a kind of indeterminate form can be considered both
right and wrong, depending on one's point of view. It is used to be
deliberately non-specific, or maybe "polite" usage: neither male nor
female, neither singular nor plural, nor giving other indications about
one's relations to others (as one finds in languages other than English).
I think maybe it's because English lost the use of gender in language for
ordinary words. I don't hear about people debating whether, in other
languages, a wall or a house ought to be masculine or feminine, etc. That
part of the culture wars seems to be peculiarly an American phenomenon, or
at least it is very much anglocentric.
I do not want to prolong this discussion in the linguistic direction as it
is getting OT. However "they" is nowdays plural in contradiction to archaic
use as you describe. "You" is the accepted pronoun. The progressives try to
insert all kinds of other pronouns or variants of spelling, but there is
the principle of economy of language and it is not likely to succeed (from
theoretical and historical PoV).
And yet, I must point out that the use of the words
*they* and *them* in
this sort of indeterminate or "polite" sense is actually quite ancient,
and can be traced back a part of speech that was lost. There are traces of
this, for example, in French, as when one says "On dit" (They say), as in,
"They say it's going to rain sometime later today." Who is this
"they"?
This seventh form or declension (not sure if my terms are correct here, as
it's been decades since university) dropped out of most Indo-European
languages sometime at the brink of the historical record. It used to exist
(I believe) in Old Irish and the other oldest European languages, but then
gradually disappeared.
You mean dualis, which stands for 2, meaning both of us. I was always
curious. I know in Europe the Slovenians still have dualis.
Personally, I wish scholars, linguists, grammarians,
makers of
dictionaries, politicians -- whoever it is that gets to decide these
matters -- could get it together, and come up with a kind of all-purpose,
inclusive term (one that doesn't offend anybody) to cover this problem of
the "third gender" or third sex; not to make any kind of political
statement, but only because it is a concept that is recognized in many
cultures already, and can be found in our own history, going back before
the Classical period.
Well, from theoretical PoV the scholars follow the development in the
language. The philosophers or alike create or perhaps more accurately
develop the concept and the people either accept or reject it.
For example the above mentioned "they" was used only when reffering the
Emperor which was inherited from the Roman-Byzantine empire, where they had
two equal in power and they find a way to address them without insulting
one or the other. The simple people then adopted it as polite form, but for
example in Austria or Prussia/Germany they were forbidden to use it and
they used "he" or "she" instead of nowdays "you" reffering a
single person.
And then maybe we could all get back to living our
lives again, instead of
fighting these stupid culture wars over things that aren't even real.
My strategy is "ignore", but I still prefer to be he and addressed by
"you".
This is what I wanted to highlight originally.
And if someone can tell me how to solve the issue with the generated mail,
it would be great.
BR
5:04 p.m.
On Thu September 7 2023 16:12:18 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Thursday 07 September 2023 15:32:58 deloptes via
tde-users wrote:
"They" is polite and perfectly acceptable when gender is unknown or
irrelevant or many-valued (as in "For each person on the list please
ask them if they remembered to bring their passport" where them/their
is singular gender neutral). Pronouns are like variable declarations
where sometimes you need variant types. Despite my immense brain power
I have not memorized the gender of every TDE user.
Political opinions are a different matter and may be opined in
appropriate forums but not here.
On Thu September 7 2023 16:46:34 deloptes via tde-users wrote:
Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
Ah, you have got caught up in our culture wars. It is a pity that this
stupid non-question has become an obsession for so many people who take
different sides and evidently do not know at all anything about, say,
linguistics or the established etymologies of words. As to Deloptes original question, I am unclear as
to whether they want
to
Delopes is a he :) They are (if in one person) anomaly :)
It is unusual feeling being called they, even if I understand the
politeness in the background. I just want to say it is not necessary for
me. Well, today using they is signalling progressiveness.
AFAIR from the
English classes "you" is sufficiently polite and would prefer this as
pronoun reffering my person.
"You" is second person and therefore not interchangeable with third
person "they".
And if someone can tell me how to solve the issue with
the generated mail,
it would be great.
On Thu September 7 2023 14:24:11 Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
As to Deloptes original question, I am unclear as to
whether they want to
unsubscribe versus remain subscribed but not receive emails because they
are using Gmane. If the latter they can click on the archive link at the
bottom of list messages, log in, and at top right change their Mailman
Settings / Global Mailman preferences / Delivery status to disabled.
If you don't know whether you are subscribed you could look at the footer
of a list email you receive, or send me a copy of an entire email including
headers and footer if the answer is still unclear.
--Mike
5:19 p.m.
On Friday 08 of September 2023 02:04:43 Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
On Thu September 7 2023 14:24:11 Mike Bird via
tde-users wrote:
Hi, Mike, Emanoil, others,
I verified that Emanoil is a subscribed member of ML. So via the web
interface there can set its preferences - for example, not wanting to
receive posts by mail. Delivery status can be set at several levels -
global, but also specifically for individual mailing lists.
Cheers
--
Slávek
As to Deloptes original question, I am unclear as
to whether they want
to unsubscribe versus remain subscribed but not receive emails because
they are using Gmane. If the latter they can click on the archive
link at the bottom of list messages, log in, and at top right change
their Mailman Settings / Global Mailman preferences / Delivery status
to disabled.
If you don't know whether you are subscribed you could look at the
footer of a list email you receive, or send me a copy of an entire email
including headers and footer if the answer is still unclear.
--Mike
_____________________________________
8 Sep
8 Sep
1:08 p.m.
Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Hi, Mike, Emanoil, others,
I verified that Emanoil is a subscribed member of ML. So via the web
interface there can set its preferences - for example, not wanting to
receive posts by mail. Delivery status can be set at several levels -
global, but also specifically for individual mailing lists.
Cheers
Thank you Slavek,
this is also what I have in memory. In fact I found the subscription
confirmation mail from 4.8.2021.
However I do not have the password and the mailman says it does not know my
user account
Password Reset
Forgotten your password? Enter your e-mail address below, and we'll send you
an e-mail allowing you to reset it.
E-mail
The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What to do now?
Thanks
7 Sep
7 Sep
11:06 p.m.
Anno domini 2023 Thu, 7 Sep 17:04:43 -0700
Mike Bird via tde-users scripsit:
On Thu September 7 2023 16:12:18 William Morder via
tde-users wrote:
[...]
"They" is polite and perfectly acceptable when gender is unknown or
irrelevant or many-valued (as in "For each person on the list please
ask them if they remembered to bring their passport" where them/their
is singular gender neutral). Pronouns are like variable declarations
where sometimes you need variant types.
I thought it was "thou" / "thee" / "thy" / "thine"
but not "they" ... well, you never know, and time flows ...
Nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
8 Sep
8 Sep
6:12 a.m.
On September 8, 2023 1:06:33 AM CDT, "Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users"
<users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
Anno domini 2023 Thu, 7 Sep 17:04:43 -0700
Mike Bird via tde-users scripsit:
Actually it was once something akin to "hie" or "hem" (from Middle
English hei and hem) and the latter still survives as a contraction in phrases like
"Catch 'em all" but I digress. :-)
On Thu September 7 2023 16:12:18 William Morder
via tde-users wrote:
[...]
"They" is polite and perfectly acceptable when gender is unknown or
irrelevant or many-valued (as in "For each person on the list please
ask them if they remembered to bring their passport" where them/their
is singular gender neutral). Pronouns are like variable declarations
where sometimes you need variant types.
I thought it was "thou" / "thee" / "thy" / "thine"
but not "they" ... well, you never know, and time flows ...
Nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
____________________________________________________
tde-users mailing list -- users(a)trinitydesktop.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
Web mail archive available at
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt… 
7 Sep
7 Sep
8:38 p.m.
On 2023-09-07 18:46:34 you wrote:
Well, from theoretical PoV the scholars follow the
development in the
language. The philosophers or alike create or perhaps more accurately
develop the concept and the people either accept or reject it.
Maybe I'm
wrong, but I suspect that scholars and philosophers had very little
to do with the hijacking of "they" to do the work of "it". :-)
Leslie
--
Platform: Linux
Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.4 - x86_64
Desktop Environment: Trinity
Qt: 3.5.0
TDE: R14.1.0
tde-config: 1.0
3:17 p.m.
William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I believe what's intended is that he doesn't
want emails showing his
personal email address to anybody indiscriminately; this is a complaint in
which I share. He wants (I think) the "to" and "from" to show his
name,
but then <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> as his
email address.
Hi
no I simply get the mails sent per mail to my mail address. And this is what
I do want to configure, so that it is not send.
I want to remain subscribed to the list, but not receiving the e-mails in
the mailbox.
BR
3:46 p.m.
On Thursday 07 September 2023 15:17:31 deloptes via tde-users wrote:
William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Thank you, and I do apologize if I put words into your mouth. I did not wish
to presume to know what you thought or wanted, but at the moment it seemed to
coincide with my own issue with the mailing list.
Bill
I believe what's intended is that he
doesn't want emails showing his
personal email address to anybody indiscriminately; this is a complaint
in which I share. He wants (I think) the "to" and "from" to show his
name, but then <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> as his
email address.
Hi
no I simply get the mails sent per mail to my mail address. And this is
what I do want to configure, so that it is not send.
I want to remain subscribed to the list, but not receiving the e-mails in
the mailbox.
BR
254
days inactive
255
days old
15 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
deloptes -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
Hunter -
J Leslie Turriff -
Mike Bird -
Slávek Banko -
William Morder