18 Mar
2024
18 Mar
'24
1:51 a.m.
Dear all,
May be off topic. I am trying to understand why Debian (especially stable)
has the reputation as being more conservative than other distributions. If
I look at distrowatch (for example comparing to openSUSE and Fedora):
Kernel LibreOffice Release date
Bookworm 6.1.27 7.4.5 2023-06-10
Trixie 6.6.15 24.2.0 2023-06-11
Leap 15.5 5.14.21 7.4.3.2 2023-06-07
Tumbleweed 6.7.9 24.2.1 2024-03-17
Fedora 6.5.6 7.6.2 2023-11-07
I don't know much about the meaning of kernel versions, but I know that
major versions are often developed in parallel. Is 5.14.21 newer than
6.1.27? Judging alone from the kernel version numbers (and other
packages), it looks like Leap would be the most conservative while Debian
Testing (Trixie) almost as up-to-date (concerning newer Linux packages) as
Tumbleweed and ahead of Fedora (released later).
Thanks,
Gianluca
-----------------------------------------------------
Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca(a)u.washington.edu
+1 (206) 685 4435
http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering
University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A.
-----------------------------------------------------
18 Mar
18 Mar
2:16 a.m.
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Hash: SHA256
On Sunday 17 March 2024, Gianluca Interlandi via tde-users was heard
to say:
I am trying to understand why Debian (especially
stable) has the reputation as being more conservative than other
distributions.
It's a reputation which has been earned over time.
There have been several times where Debian Stable has been maintained
for years waiting on the next release. Thus "backports"
and "volatile" and other efforts to try to keep Stable usable as
other distributions seemed to race ahead.
So while that reputation is not always accurate at a given moment, the
Debian developers do put a lot of effort into making sure if you run
Stable it is truly stable. That any updates don't break anything.
I ran Debian Sid (Unstable) for a decade. I found the variety of
issues that came up to be stimulating, but any time I've helped
someone else use Debian I always use Stable.
As a list-relevant example, when Debian changed to KDE4, I stopped
upgrading until TDE came out so that KDE3 would not be over-written.
As long as everything keeps working, really, why update at all?
Curt-
- --
You may my glories and my state dispose,
But not my griefs; still am I king of those.
--- William Shakespeare, "Richard II"
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3:15 a.m.
Gianluca Interlandi composed on 2024-03-17 18:51 (UTC-0700):
May be off topic. I am trying to understand why Debian
(especially stable)
has the reputation as being more conservative than other distributions. If
I look at distrowatch (for example comparing to openSUSE and Fedora):
Kernel LibreOffice Release date
Bookworm 6.1.27 7.4.5 2023-06-10
Trixie 6.6.15 24.2.0 2023-06-11
Leap 15.5 5.14.21 7.4.3.2 2023-06-07
Tumbleweed 6.7.9 24.2.1 2024-03-17
Fedora 6.5.6 7.6.2 2023-11-07
I don't know much about the meaning of kernel
versions, but I know that
major versions are often developed in parallel. Is 5.14.21 newer than
6.1.27? Judging alone from the kernel version numbers (and other
packages), it looks like Leap would be the most conservative while Debian
Testing (Trixie) almost as up-to-date (concerning newer Linux packages) as
Tumbleweed and ahead of Fedora (released later).
The kernel version in Leap has no relevance for purposes of comparison to other
distros' kernels. Its 5.14 is purely nominal, loaded with hardware support
backports and security patches. 15.6 is due for release in 9 or so weeks,
currently in beta testing with a 6.4 kernel, while current is 6.8.1. Fedora
doesn't stick with its release kernel. F39 and F38 are both currently on 6.7.9 or
so, same as Tumbleweed, which also offers 6.6.21 currently.
Among distros you listed, only Bookworm and Leap can truly be considered
"stable"
releases. TW is a rolling release, which by definition isn't stable, though unlike
other rolling releases, it has a continuous QA process that severely limits the
ability of serious problems to sneak out into the wild, and it comes standard with
BRFTS and convenient snapshot rollbacks enabled. Fedora OTOH, has a well deserved
bleeding edge reputation, as its policy of routinely upgrading kernels between
releases attests.
Bookworm does have a newer kernel available for those who actually need newer than
its release version.
--
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata
3:39 a.m.
On 3/17/24 6:51 PM, Gianluca Interlandi via tde-users wrote:
I don't know much about the meaning of kernel
versions
kernel.org's FAQ explains that version numbers are carefully calculated by a
very specific process:
"Does the major version number (4.x vs 5.x) mean anything?
"No. The major version number is incremented when the number after the dot
starts looking "too big." There is literally no other reason."
--
For PGP key, search on the PGP Global Directory.
9:29 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Mar 2024 20:39:19 -0700
Dan Youngquist via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
On 3/17/24 6:51 PM, Gianluca Interlandi via tde-users
wrote:
One quirk to keep in mind is that some kernel versions are semi-randomly
blessed by the kernel devs to "stable" status, which means that they continue
receiving bug fixes and occasionally more even after kernels with later
major+minor versions have become obsolete. Recent stable kernels include
5.10, 5.15, 6.1, and 6.6.
This means that 5.15.148 is a more recent release than 6.0.1, even though
it doesn't look like it should be.
E. Liddell
I don't know much about the meaning of kernel
versions
kernel.org's FAQ explains that version numbers are carefully calculated by a
very specific process:
"Does the major version number (4.x vs 5.x) mean anything?
"No. The major version number is incremented when the number after the dot
starts looking "too big." There is literally no other reason."
42
days inactive
42
days old
4 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Curt Howland -
Dan Youngquist -
E. Liddell -
Felix Miata -
Gianluca Interlandi