Hello everyone!
I have been working on some fixes improvements to KXkb, the TDE keyboard tool and layout switcher¹. The fixes should make configuring keyboard layouts easier and should solve some long-standing issues with keyboard switching (e.g. Bugzilla issue #100).
One of the improvements that I have been thinking to include but for which I need user feedback concerns TDEPersonalizer, the wizard that gets shown on the first run of the desktop, or later, at users' choice. The first step of this wizard lets you choose your country and system language. The idea is that based on this information, the keyboard layouts will be conveniently set up for you with a sane default, with minimal need for user feedback (who can later adjust this default manually).
But the problem is that I am not sure what that default should be. If you consider, for example, cyrillic languages or greek, a good default, in my opinion, would be a combination of the standard latin layout (English) plus the layout of that language (so you have two layouts that you can switch between). If you take languages based on the latin alphabet though (e.g. Italian, French, Czech etc.) users might not
actually need a latin layout, so they will be fine with just the layout of the keyboard layout of their own language. A good solution IMO would be adding a checkbox just below country and language selection that would let you enable/disable the English layout. This checkbox would not be shown if the language you selected is already English (US, UK or any variant).
So, I am asking for your feedback, especially those of you who use non-English keyboard layouts: What do you think of this idea? Do you think the checkbox approach is good enough? What should be the default state of the checkbox, enable or disable English layout?
Please take in mind beginner Trinity users too.
Your feedback will be greatly appreciated!
-- Philippe MAVRIDIS
¹ The relevant pull request is here: https://mirror.git.trinitydesktop.org/gitea/TDE/tdebase/pulls/304
You can take a look at the discussion that has already happened thereif you want.
P.S. I've been having problems with GMail and the mailing list. This must be the fourth time I'm trying to send this e-mail. I'm resending this from the e-mail address that I have on ProtonMail.
On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 16:19:48 +0000 "blu.256 via tde-users" users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
Hello everyone!
I have been working on some fixes improvements to KXkb, the TDE keyboard tool and layout switcher¹. The fixes should make configuring keyboard layouts easier and should solve some long-standing issues with keyboard switching (e.g. Bugzilla issue #100).
One of the improvements that I have been thinking to include but for which I need user feedback concerns TDEPersonalizer, the wizard that gets shown on the first run of the desktop, or later, at users' choice. The first step of this wizard lets you choose your country and system language. The idea is that based on this information, the keyboard layouts will be conveniently set up for you with a sane default, with minimal need for user feedback (who can later adjust this default manually).
But the problem is that I am not sure what that default should be. If you consider, for example, cyrillic languages or greek, a good default, in my opinion, would be a combination of the standard latin layout (English) plus the layout of that language (so you have two layouts that you can switch between). If you take languages based on the latin alphabet though (e.g. Italian, French, Czech etc.) users might not
actually need a latin layout, so they will be fine with just the layout of the keyboard layout of their own language. A good solution IMO would be adding a checkbox just below country and language selection that would let you enable/disable the English layout. This checkbox would not be shown if the language you selected is already English (US, UK or any variant).
So, I am asking for your feedback, especially those of you who use non-English keyboard layouts: What do you think of this idea? Do you think the checkbox approach is good enough? What should be the default state of the checkbox, enable or disable English layout?
Please take in mind beginner Trinity users too.
Your feedback will be greatly appreciated!
-- Philippe MAVRIDIS
¹ The relevant pull request is here: https://mirror.git.trinitydesktop.org/gitea/TDE/tdebase/pulls/304
You can take a look at the discussion that has already happened thereif you want.
P.S. I've been having problems with GMail and the mailing list. This must be the fourth time I'm trying to send this e-mail. I'm resending this from the e-mail address that I have on ProtonMail.
I'm a TDE user who uses cyrillic layout. Personally, I think solution that you suggested is excellent way to help beginner users to quickly configure their desktop in a way they wish without need to study rather confusing Control Center at first steps of TDE configuration. In my opinion, checkbock should be presented in auto-checked state by default if user chose non-English system language. It would be nice if keyboard layout section in TDEPersonalizer allowed to change auto-suggested layout to something else (maybe through use of drop-down list with every single available layout).
blu.256 via tde-users wrote:
Hello everyone!
I have been working on some fixes improvements to KXkb, the TDE keyboard tool and layout switcher¹. The fixes should make configuring keyboard layouts easier and should solve some long-standing issues with keyboard switching (e.g. Bugzilla issue #100).
One of the improvements that I have been thinking to include but for which I need user feedback concerns TDEPersonalizer, the wizard that gets shown on the first run of the desktop, or later, at users' choice. The first step of this wizard lets you choose your country and system language. The idea is that based on this information, the keyboard layouts will be conveniently set up for you with a sane default, with minimal need for user feedback (who can later adjust this default manually).
I still wonder why you would do that. The current one is IMO just fine. The language of the interface selected does not influence the locale selected, so I would usually select the defaults, because the desired language needs to be installed.
But the problem is that I am not sure what that default should be. If you consider, for example, cyrillic languages or greek, a good default, in my opinion, would be a combination of the standard latin layout (English) plus the layout of that language (so you have two layouts that you can switch between). If you take languages based on the latin alphabet though (e.g. Italian, French, Czech etc.) users might not
Just leave it to "C" - is it possible?
actually need a latin layout, so they will be fine with just the layout of the keyboard layout of their own language. A good solution IMO would be adding a checkbox just below country and language selection that would let you enable/disable the English layout. This checkbox would not be shown if the language you selected is already English (US, UK or any variant).
So, I am asking for your feedback, especially those of you who use non-English keyboard layouts: What do you think of this idea? Do you think the checkbox approach is good enough? What should be the default state of the checkbox, enable or disable English layout?
IMO it is not bad idea to give option to set the keys to switch between keyboards, but this should depend if user selected different language and keyboard. If it is the same why would you need all of this in Personalizer? It would be handy to have this option in the configuration window on the keyboard layout, because as explained I have to modify the default (now Alt+Shift+k)
BR
On 2023/01/12 01:19 AM, blu.256 via tde-users wrote:
Hello everyone!
I have been working on some fixes improvements to KXkb, the TDE keyboard tool and layout switcher¹. The fixes should make configuring keyboard layouts easier and should solve some long-standing issues with keyboard switching (e.g. Bugzilla issue #100).
One of the improvements that I have been thinking to include but for which I need user feedback concerns TDEPersonalizer, the wizard that gets shown on the first run of the desktop, or later, at users' choice. The first step of this wizard lets you choose your country and system language. The idea is that based on this information, the keyboard layouts will be conveniently set up for you with a sane default, with minimal need for user feedback (who can later adjust this default manually).
But the problem is that I am not sure what that default should be. If you consider, for example, cyrillic languages or greek, a good default, in my opinion, would be a combination of the standard latin layout (English) plus the layout of that language (so you have two layouts that you can switch between). If you take languages based on the latin alphabet though (e.g. Italian, French, Czech etc.) users might not actually need a latin layout, so they will be fine with just the layout of the keyboard layout of their own language.
A good solution IMO would be adding a checkbox just below country and language selection that would let you enable/disable the English layout. This checkbox would not be shown if the language you selected is already English (US, UK or any variant).
So, I am asking for your feedback, especially those of you who use non-English keyboard layouts: What do you think of this idea? Do you think the checkbox approach is good enough? What should be the default state of the checkbox, enable or disable English layout?
Please take in mind beginner Trinity users too.
Your feedback will be greatly appreciated!
How about adding one page to TDEPersonalizer where the user can choose the keyboard layouts that he wants? The content would be similar to the page shown in KxKB config page "Layout" tab, giving the user a list of available layouts, acitve layouts and a GUI to add/remove layouts. The default layout would be already pre-filled based on the language choosen on the previous page.
What do you think about it?
Cheers Michele
On 2023-01-11 21:11:59 Michele Calgaro via tde-users wrote:
On 2023/01/12 01:19 AM, blu.256 via tde-users wrote:
Hello everyone!
I have been working on some fixes improvements to KXkb, the TDE keyboard tool and layout switcher¹. The fixes should make configuring keyboard layouts easier and should solve some long-standing issues with keyboard switching (e.g. Bugzilla issue #100).
One of the improvements that I have been thinking to include but for which I need user feedback concerns TDEPersonalizer, the wizard that gets shown on the first run of the desktop, or later, at users' choice. The first step of this wizard lets you choose your country and system language. The idea is that based on this information, the keyboard layouts will be conveniently set up for you with a sane default, with minimal need for user feedback (who can later adjust this default manually).
But the problem is that I am not sure what that default should be. If you consider, for example, cyrillic languages or greek, a good default, in my opinion, would be a combination of the standard latin layout (English) plus the layout of that language (so you have two layouts that you can switch between). If you take languages based on the latin alphabet though (e.g. Italian, French, Czech etc.) users might not actually need a latin layout, so they will be fine with just the layout of the keyboard layout of their own language.
A good solution IMO would be adding a checkbox just below country and language selection that would let you enable/disable the English layout. This checkbox would not be shown if the language you selected is already English (US, UK or any variant).
So, I am asking for your feedback, especially those of you who use non-English keyboard layouts: What do you think of this idea? Do you think the checkbox approach is good enough? What should be the default state of the checkbox, enable or disable English layout?
Please take in mind beginner Trinity users too.
Your feedback will be greatly appreciated!
How about adding one page to TDEPersonalizer where the user can choose the keyboard layouts that he wants? The content would be similar to the page shown in KxKB config page "Layout" tab, giving the user a list of available layouts, acitve layouts and a GUI to add/remove layouts. The default layout would be already pre-filled based on the language choosen on the previous page.
What do you think about it?
Cheers Michele
I guess you mean kpersonalizer.
One may set country and language one way but still prefer to use a particular different keyboard mapping.
Leslie
The default layout would be already pre-filled based on the language
choosen
on the previous page.
I fond the current situation satisfying, except that newcommers may not understand that there is the keeyboard layout settings and where they are.
I may be a singularity, but I am regularely confronted to the fact that most (?) users seem to be one-language-only.
I hate the translations in most GUI / Programs (comes back from MS WOrd 3 where "transfer" was translated to "lit-écrit" in French...). So my computer runs in UK-English. However, my keyboard is Swiss-French.
So maybe a choice during the setup, such as "keyboard follows Desktop language - yes/no" could be a solution.
Thierry
Hello, and Thanks everyone for the feedback so far!
Maybe it's a better idea to just integrate the layout configurator that already exists as the second step of TDE Personalizer, and let users configure the keyboard layouts themselves? What do you think?
-- Philippe MAVRIDIS ------- Original Message ------- On Wednesday, January 11th, 2023 at 6:19 PM, blu.256 blu256@proton.me wrote:
Hello everyone!
I have been working on some fixes improvements to KXkb, the TDE keyboard tool and layout switcher¹. The fixes should make configuring keyboard layouts easier and should solve some long-standing issues with keyboard switching (e.g. Bugzilla issue #100).
One of the improvements that I have been thinking to include but for which I need user feedback concerns TDEPersonalizer, the wizard that gets shown on the first run of the desktop, or later, at users' choice. The first step of this wizard lets you choose your country and system language. The idea is that based on this information, the keyboard layouts will be conveniently set up for you with a sane default, with minimal need for user feedback (who can later adjust this default manually).
But the problem is that I am not sure what that default should be. If you consider, for example, cyrillic languages or greek, a good default, in my opinion, would be a combination of the standard latin layout (English) plus the layout of that language (so you have two layouts that you can switch between). If you take languages based on the latin alphabet though (e.g. Italian, French, Czech etc.) users might not
actually need a latin layout, so they will be fine with just the layout of the keyboard layout of their own language. A good solution IMO would be adding a checkbox just below country and language selection that would let you enable/disable the English layout. This checkbox would not be shown if the language you selected is already English (US, UK or any variant).
So, I am asking for your feedback, especially those of you who use non-English keyboard layouts: What do you think of this idea? Do you think the checkbox approach is good enough? What should be the default state of the checkbox, enable or disable English layout?
Please take in mind beginner Trinity users too.
Your feedback will be greatly appreciated!
-- Philippe MAVRIDIS
¹ The relevant pull request is here: https://mirror.git.trinitydesktop.org/gitea/TDE/tdebase/pulls/304
You can take a look at the discussion that has already happened thereif you want.
P.S. I've been having problems with GMail and the mailing list. This must be the fourth time I'm trying to send this e-mail. I'm resending this from the e-mail address that I have on ProtonMail.
On 2023/01/14 01:05 AM, blu.256 via tde-users wrote:
Hello, and Thanks everyone for the feedback so far!
Maybe it's a better idea to just integrate the layout configurator that already exists as the second step of TDE Personalizer, and let users configure the keyboard layouts themselves? What do you think?
-- Philippe MAVRIDIS
Hi Philippe, I think it is the solution that offers the most flexibility to users :-) Cheers Michele
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blu.256 -
deloptes -
Ivan -
J Leslie Turriff -
Michele Calgaro -
Thierry de Coulon