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Kmenu Reasoning Explained
by Katheryne Draven 26 Jan '11

26 Jan '11

As requested by some people (Xu_R AKA The Old Man) an odt and pdf of the reasoning behind my kmenu setup. I would appreciate any input to improve the setup. Thanks Kate

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Howto build pykde after removed or prior kde3 install?
by David C. Rankin 26 Jan '11

26 Jan '11

Guys, How do I get pykde to use the right dcopobject.h from trinity svn in order to successfully build it after removing my prior kde3 install? I ask because I read that you MUST remove prior KDE3 installs before building trinity. I did that. I also patch qt3 for 3.3.8c and I have it installed. However when you run 'python configure.py' it grabs the kde4 install information: gcc version 4.5.2 concatenating files KDE base directory is /usr KDE include directory is /usr/include KDE lib directory is /usr/lib lib directory is lib <snip> and then fails during make because it can't find the right dcopobject.h: <snip> Creating top level Makefile... Creating pykdeconfig.py... make[1]: Entering directory `/home/david/arch/pkg/trinity-notes/pykde3/src/PyKDE-3.16.7/dcop' g++ -c -Wno-deprecated-declarations -pipe -fPIC -march=x86-64 -mtune=generic -O2 -pipe -Wall -W -D_REENTRANT -DNDEBUG -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_THREAD_SUPPORT -I. -I../extra/kde353 -I/usr/include -I/usr/include/python2.7 -I/opt/qt/mkspecs/default -I/opt/qt/include -I/usr/X11R6/include -o sipdcoppart0.o sipdcoppart0.cpp sip/dcop/dcopobject.sip:30:24: fatal error: dcopobject.h: No such file or directory compilation terminated. make[1]: *** [sipdcoppart0.o] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/david/arch/pkg/trinity-notes/pykde3/src/PyKDE-3.16.7/dcop' make: *** [all] Error 2 I know I am missing something basic concerning setting up my build environment. I can't just add something like: -I /home/david/arch/pkg/trinity/kdelibs/dcop to the dcop Makefile because it then fails to find tqobject.h and so on. So I need a push in the right direction. Anybody have a reference, a link, or some notes squirreled away that would help cure my ignorance here? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm more than willing to RTFM, if I just know which FM to read :-) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.

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List of bugs/requests
by Luciano ES 26 Jan '11

26 Jan '11

I've been thinking about submitting a few bug reports and feature requests. I am posting the list here, in case someone would like to comment... 1) Kinfocenter launches empty. None of the components is available. I found a workaround: right-click the KDE task bar and add the "Settings" applet. All the functions are there. 2) I request installation of kdepim-kde3 and Adept Manager tells me it is going to BREAK something. Should I proceed? Is that safe? 3) My old configuration of Yakuake is no longer usable because many keyboard shortcuts don't work anymore. For example, Shift+Ctrl+c, Shift+Ctrl+v, Ctrl+/, Alt+c/Alt+s inside Vim etc. (Hmm... the Vim shortcuts don't work on Konsole either. I will have to investigate that further.) 4) KDE 3 has had a bug with key shortcuts for years: in the config app, Regional & Accessibility, Keyboard Shortcuts, we can change some of the global shortcuts. I like this: copy with Ctrl+c and Ctrl+Ins, paste with Ctrl+v and Shift+Ins, Undo with Ctrl+z and Redo with Ctrl+y. The problem is Ctrl+Ins, Shift+Ins, and Ctrl+y do not work everywhere. In Kmail, for example, Ctrl+y does not work. Ctrl+c and Ctrl+v did not use to work, they do now. But Ctrl+Ins and Shift+Ins still don't work in a few places, especially small dialogues. 5) This has bothered me for ages: in Konqueror, I REALLY, REALLY wish I could highlight files, COPY them (say, Ctrl+c) and PASTE them into another Konqueror window or panel (Ctrl+v perhaps?). I used to do that a lot in Windows Explorer. I migrated to Linux in 2006 and I still miss that feature... 6) I also love how I can press Ctrl+(NumPad +) to "adjust" the width of all file manager columns. Try doing that in a Windows machine. It's great! Can we have that in Konqueror too? Pleeeease?... 7) I may be the only one in the world who has or notices this problem: I use a netbook that I can carry around, but I use an external keyboard when I'm at home. The netbook has a US International keyboard, the keyboard at home is Brazilian, ABNT2. Whenever I plug/unplug the keyboard and switch layouts, I lose my Repeat Delay/Rate configuration, so the keyboard feels a little bit slow. So I have to open Kcontrol, readjust the delay and click OK. The number never seems to have changed, but the keyboard definitely feels different. Redoing the config fixes it, but it's annoying. I also have to do that ritual every time I boot/reboot/log out. I wish KDE would keep those settings. -- Luciano ES >>

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Clarification announcement!
by Robert Xu 26 Jan '11

26 Jan '11

Hi all. This is a post to clear up any issues that people might be confused with. We've all agreed to this, so this is now here for reference. So, let me start of by saying: TRINITY IS NOT KDE3 (anymore). KDE3 IS DEAD. And let me go a bit further with that. We are currently in an alpha stage of porting Trinity to cmake. There is currently the following in usable or finished states: - tqtinterface - arts - kdelibs - kdebase - kdedevelop The 3.5.12 tarballs DO NOT have them. I repeat, DO NOT have cmake scripts. You will need to download them from http://thel.ro/ and insert them into the build directory. We are also in a pre-alpha stage of porting Trinity to Qt4. Before I go any further, let me say: WE ARE NOT PORTING APPLICATIONS ONE BY ONE TO QT4 (as may have been interpreted before). What we are doing is porting the apps to tqt (a relatively easy thing to do), and then letting tQT handle the Qt version specifics. tQt for Qt4 has been progressing along for some time, although it is COMPLETELY FAR from stable. If you'd like to see a screenshot from 3.5.13, Tim provides one here: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=1586qmp&s=7 I assure you, we are not making another KDE4. We'll leave that junk to the KDE4 developers. Thank you for taking the time to read this. The Trinity Developers

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Success with Trinity on Slackware 13.1
by Jay 25 Jan '11

25 Jan '11

I've managed to get Trinity running nicely on Slackware 13.1. To be more precise it is a linux live derivative of slackware (similar to slax). Everything runs nicely and i have only one question. On the root account i get the error 'cannot start kstartupconfig` after logging on and just before the desktop loads. I can click ok and move to the desktop no problem. I imagine it is a permissions thing with the home/root directory but nothing i've tried fixes the error. For testing i boot from an iso. Before creating the iso i have chowned the folder and also tried chmod 755. Can anyone point me in the right direction to remedy this. I am sure it is a simple permission problem but it eludes me so far. Jay

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Re: [trinity-users] Kmenu Reasoning Explained part 100,482
by Baron 25 Jan '11

25 Jan '11

On Monday 24 January 2011 14:01:10 Katheryne Draven wrote: > With regard to "mytools", it smacks too much as a homage to MS, with > its "My this" and "My that", but in the end its not my decision. Its > clearly something Trinity as a whole must make. I do urge against the > use of MS terminology. I understand the belief that if its familiar, > it will make the use more comfortable. That, however, has not been my > eXPerience :). Users who leave windows for Linux cringe when they see > references to it. They're finally free of their master, why would > they wish to build a shrine to it? The use of MS terms, also > reinforces the belief that Linux is just a second rate Windos > wannabe. > > OH BLAST! Where did this soapbox come from??!! > > > Kate I and I suspect many others will agree with you ! However sensible naming should improve clarity. -- Best Regards: Baron.

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Re: [trinity-users] Kmenu Reasoning Explained part 100,482
by Katheryne Draven 25 Jan '11

25 Jan '11

On 1/23/11, David C. Rankin <drankinatty(a)suddenlinkmail.com> wrote: > On 01/22/2011 04:48 PM, Katheryne Draven wrote: >> As requested by some people (Xu_R AKA The Old Man) an odt and pdf of >> the reasoning behind my kmenu setup. >> >> I would appreciate any input to improve the setup. >> >> Thanks >> >> Kate >> > > Thank you Kate! > > I generally spend a couple of hours sorting apps into their logical places > when > I start with a fresh install. Standardizing kmenu into a logical order > limiting > each menu/submenu entry to ~ 10-15 items with a max depth of ~4 is much > needed. > Here are two thoughts for consideration: > > (1) of the existing distros that did a good job with kmenu, SuSE's inclusion > of > a 'Utilities' submenu that held all the kde apps really helped with > organization. Here is a shot of what I adapted from an old openSuSE 11.0 > install: > > [93k] > http://www.3111skyline.com/dl/dt/trinity/ss/kmenu-utilities.jpg > > (2) everybody also has a subset of applications they use most frequently. > What I > call "mytools" or I guess what "User-Apps" is intended for in your setup. > For > what it is worth, here is a shot of the collection of mytools that may have > a > submenu or two that may be of interest: > > [138k] > http://www.3111skyline.com/dl/dt/trinity/ss/kmenu-mytools.jpg > > (I don't know how the duplicate basket entries got there. On suse, when you > edit > the gnome menu, you often get unwanted side-effects in the k3 menu as well) > > I think this effort to tame the kmenu jungle is well worth the time and I > thank > you for your efforts. > > -- > David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. > Rankin Law Firm, PLLC > 510 Ochiltree Street > Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 > Telephone: (936) 715-9333 > Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 > www.rankinlawfirm.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net > For additional commands, e-mail: > trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net > Read list messsages on the Web archive: > http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ > Please remember not to top-post: > http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting > > Thank you David All of this (your input and images) is very useful. I did have a Utilities menu, but I had trouble figuring out what should go in there. What constituted "system" and "utility" apps (or tools perhaps?). I do the same thing (reorganizing the kmenu), and its something I noticed my users doing as well. When 108 different people start fiddling about with kmenu I asked why. The usual answers were, "its out of order", "nothing is where its supposed to be", or "it doesn't make sense the way it is. They all thought it was a defect like the kind they experienced when using windows (adding an item to the startmenu throws everything off). When I asked them for a mockup of what they thought it should be like, what made sense to them, I got the basic of what we have here. Looking at SuSe, it seems they did a similar study or someting. I think we need to focus first on the parent directories (Office or Desktop Publishing, Tools, Utilities, etc etc) then work on the subdirectories. I think the apps should help us determine what subdirectories are needed. I urge the use of proper computer terminology, avoiding the use of "MS Terms". We should mean to education as well, after all knowledge is freedom (among other good things). With regard to "mytools", it smacks too much as a homage to MS, with its "My this" and "My that", but in the end its not my decision. Its clearly something Trinity as a whole must make. I do urge against the use of MS terminology. I understand the belief that if its familiar, it will make the use more comfortable. That, however, has not been my eXPerience :). Users who leave windows for Linux cringe when they see references to it. They're finally free of their master, why would they wish to build a shrine to it? The use of MS terms, also reinforces the belief that Linux is just a second rate Windos wannabe. OH BLAST! Where did this soapbox come from??!! Kate

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The Kmenu Saga Vol 00
by Katheryne Draven 24 Jan '11

24 Jan '11

Wow. A lot to read so I'm start a new thread sort of. Everyone makes valid points for the most part. What we need to find, is which ones apply to us. Who are we recreating this late-great desktop environment (DE) for? I suggest, for now, its for the loyal kde3 users. For true and current gnu-linux users. I am not, in any sense, discounting those who will come, but they will come because of what we build now. So let's make it a good one (DE). Its illogical to design something for someone isn't currently using it. It is logical to design something for those who are. So I suggest we focus on them. David C. Rankin wrote "I agree with just "Documents". If you don't know who's documents are on your box, you have more issues to worry about :p" - Well David (if it was you who wrote this) I can see you and I are existentialists. I can't agree more. We cannot cater to those who cannot/will not learn or simple use their mind. Think about it this way, can you create a DE for someone who doesn't want to use your DE? David was also labouring to find something better than Office, that's a hard one. Productivity, DTP, this one is going to be a killer. However putting graphics under media, I disagree with because, whilst they overlap to a degree, media or multimedia has traditionally been the domain of Audio Video. John A. Sullivan III wrote "People have businesses to run and could care less about educating themselves (rightfully)." - I've never met a successful business person who didn't what to know how it all works, considering its how money is made. I have business client, all of which have wanted to see what's under the hood. Once again, We cannot cater to those who cannot/will not learn or simple use their mind. Its simply impossible to crater to those who do not think. Think about it, how can you build something for someone that doesn't care? A person like this, is never happy. Oliver Kullmann wrote "I think the KDE 3 -> KDE 4 disaster has much to do with a kind of take-over by ms-centric thinking. Sure, hard to quantify, but with KDE 3 I always had the feeling it moves in principle into the right direction, while with KDE 4 this basic trust is completely lost (on a daily basic --- I have to use it under various circumstances)." - I agree. Currently kde4 seems to be in competition with MS, who oddly enough has stolen things from kde (check out their open/save dialog which now has a kde like side bar). Competition is a waste of time, let's just focus on doing a good job. John A. Sullivan III "I would like to politely disagree while admitting that many others on the list may be better qualified than I to address this issue. However, my impression of why KDE4 has been such a problem has not been the MS imitation but their prioritization of developer interests over user interests" - Its true, they are in compentition with MS, and its true, they are serving their interests over those of the users. I have dealt directly with KDE4 devels over the last year until I just couldn't anymore. David C. Rankin - Your suggests are right on track and have given me much to think about. Poor, overworked Tim wrote "Well, I do want to convey to the user that the Documents folder is unique to his or her profile, unlike the other shortcuts which point to shared system resources that are identical across all profiles. Personally I like "My Documents", but other alternatives could be "Personal Documents", "Personal Files" or similar. - Isn't it possible to create a script that would read the user's login name and create a direct such as "Tim's User File" which would contain everything in its own net subdirectories (Documents, Spreedsheets, Homework (for those still in skool), Photos etc). My people just a directory called User-Files, or rename it later on. I also, whole-heartedly, agree with Lisi in that if a language is to be used, such as English, then it should be used correctly. The same should go for computer terms. Felix Miata wrote "Try a librarian hat and think about cataloging, file drawers and shelving. Does that help?" - yes it does help and its what I've been trying to do. I apoligize for the length of the email but I thougt it wise to start a new one, than add to the already lengthy one. I've always believed order comes from chaos, so I think we are making progress. Kate

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KdeSudo exiting
by Luciano ES 23 Jan '11

23 Jan '11

Sometimes I boot my machine and, right after KDE has started, I get this error message popup: Information - KdeSudo No command arguments supplied! Usage: kdesudo [-u <runas>] <command> KdeSudo will now exit... Anybody else been experiencing this? Not a problem to me, I haven't noticed lack or malfunctioning of anything. I don't think I ever use this KdeSudo thing, though. I just got the error then tried running Kuser as root (Run Command > Options > Run as a different user > root), and it worked. Shrug. -- Luciano ES >>

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svn update error: Failed to add file 'dependencies/tqtinterface/qtinterface/private/tqeffects_p.h'
by David C. Rankin 22 Jan '11

22 Jan '11

Guys, I just got the following error during 'svn up *' At revision 1216401. svn: Failed to add file 'dependencies/tqtinterface/qtinterface/private/tqeffects_p.h': an unversioned file of the same name already exists -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com

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