Last post ack the list archives was in August 2017, after which the list was silent, and my msgs were apparently routed to /dev/null. But I didn't unsubscribe.
My ISP has been known to block/bounce but pearsoncomputing.net was in their "whitelist", I put it there yonks ago.
Anyway, I'm glad to be back.
Hi Gene!
Was already missing you. Did you get unsubscribed on the linuxcnc list, too?
Nik
Am Sonntag, 18. Februar 2018 schrieb Gene Heskett:
Last post ack the list archives was in August 2017, after which the list was silent, and my msgs were apparently routed to /dev/null. But I didn't unsubscribe.
My ISP has been known to block/bounce but pearsoncomputing.net was in their "whitelist", I put it there yonks ago.
Anyway, I'm glad to be back.
On Sunday 18 February 2018 07:19:36 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Hi Gene!
Was already missing you. Did you get unsubscribed on the linuxcnc list, too?
Nik
No Nik. its been ticking right along here.
Am Sonntag, 18. Februar 2018 schrieb Gene Heskett:
Last post ack the list archives was in August 2017, after which the list was silent, and my msgs were apparently routed to /dev/null. But I didn't unsubscribe.
My ISP has been known to block/bounce but pearsoncomputing.net was in their "whitelist", I put it there yonks ago.
Anyway, I'm glad to be back.
On Saturday 17 February 2018 15:15:09 Gene Heskett wrote:
Last post ack the list archives was in August 2017, after which the list was silent, and my msgs were apparently routed to /dev/null. But I didn't unsubscribe.
My ISP has been known to block/bounce but pearsoncomputing.net was in their "whitelist", I put it there yonks ago.
Anyway, I'm glad to be back.
Hello, all!
Gmail has somehow managed to unsubscribe me twice, and I have had to resubscribe. Gmail also gives me grief in a lot of other ways, and marks one of the subscribers (Klepp, I believe?) as spam, even after I have whitelisted his address countless times. It might be his .biz address.
I just resubscribed using zoho.com as my email. I am currently collecting several new email addresses to use as throwaways, but zoho works pretty well. I hear good things about Yandex, too. If anybody else has suggestions for good free email accounts (that are also secure, and reasonably private), I would be glad to hear about them.
I have a few comments to make about installing and running Trinity (general and specific), but I will post these separately. I've been a mostly silent subscriber to the mailing list almost since the Trinity project was started, or when they tried to kill KDE3 ... since maybe 2008, maybe earlier.
Bill
On Sunday 18 February 2018 07:53:34 William Morder wrote:
On Saturday 17 February 2018 15:15:09 Gene Heskett wrote:
Last post ack the list archives was in August 2017, after which the list was silent, and my msgs were apparently routed to /dev/null. But I didn't unsubscribe.
My ISP has been known to block/bounce but pearsoncomputing.net was in their "whitelist", I put it there yonks ago.
Anyway, I'm glad to be back.
Hello, all!
Gmail has somehow managed to unsubscribe me twice, and I have had to resubscribe. Gmail also gives me grief in a lot of other ways, and marks one of the subscribers (Klepp, I believe?) as spam, even after I have whitelisted his address countless times. It might be his .biz address.
gmail, AFAIK is not in this pool.
I just resubscribed using zoho.com as my email. I am currently collecting several new email addresses to use as throwaways, but zoho works pretty well. I hear good things about Yandex, too. If anybody else has suggestions for good free email accounts (that are also secure, and reasonably private), I would be glad to hear about them.
This is the account at my ISP, shentel.net.
I have a few comments to make about installing and running Trinity (general and specific), but I will post these separately. I've been a mostly silent subscriber to the mailing list almost since the Trinity project was started, or when they tried to kill KDE3 ... since maybe 2008, maybe earlier.
Yeah. that was surely a bad dog, no bisquit scene.
Bill
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
I've been trying out TDE off and on since the project started; ever since they killed KDE3, and I looked around for something as usable and practical as the KDE3x desktop (which I first used on PC Linux, and later on Ubuntu Hardy 8.04).
When trying to install over various 'buntus (mostly Ubuntu, Kubuntu or Lubuntu), I always ran into problems, and always was forced to abandon TDE. I kept a running copy of Hardy 8.04 on a separate partition, just so I could get work done, but it kept getting more and more outdated, and seriously insecure; yet none of the alternatives were working. Finally Hardy 8.04 ceased to be functional or practical, and I was forced to do something new and different, so I resolved to learn how properly to install and configure a Debian system with TDE, and am glad to report nearly complete success, with only a few nagging bugs, most of which are fairly small.
My big breakthrough came when I realized that even after I had installed TDE, and no longer ran the newer versions of KDE4/5 (whatever) or Gnome, that my newer KDE settings were somehow "bleeding over" into my TDE desktop environment. (I mean, for example, colors, and various other configurations, in Firefox, soundKonverter, Mousepad, and lots of other programs; these use the KDE settings, and look like the KDE4/5 desktop, whereas other programs have a TDE appearance, even when they are not programs specific to KDE4/5.) I believe that this has something to do with TDE's use of that /opt folder, since it is installed to ride piggyback, as it were, on top of another system, and has yet to be released as its own stand-alone system. (I've tried the TDE installation discs for Kubuntu 10.04, 12.04, 14.04, as well as Devuan, Q4OS, exeGNU, and maybe three or four others; and had those same problems, where the system eventually became unusuable, and I was forced to abandon it.)
What I did seems a little counterintuitive, but it might help others. Then again, it might seem obvious to many of the readers out there, but perhaps it will help some users, at least the n00bs. And maybe others will have their own observations to add to this thread.
I installed Debian Jessie 8.8.0 with the latest KDE desktop, and did not bother at all with TDE for at least a month or two. Instead, I went through all my settings for KDE, and tweaked and reconfigured obsessively, until I got KDE to run fairly smoothly. I disabled all the unnecessary bells & whistles in KDE that hog the CPU; I went into window-specific settings, and forced "focus stealing prevention" (set for "extreme" in most cases). I disabled my network managers (wicd, et al.) from connecting automatically; and so on, and so on. There are a million little tweaks and configurations and refinements I could list, but maybe I will start separate threads for as many of them as I can remember, and others can add their own.
Sorry to run on, and risk making this into an epic tale; but the short version is: Only after I had got KDE running as well as can be expected (from such piece of crap), then I enabled the Trinity repositories, and installed the TDE desktop; and, voila! presto! TDE works almost without a hitch, the same desktop pretty much that I have used, which keeps all my work organized and accessible, and allows me to be in control of my own system - the only desktop I've ever loved.
In other words, it was the KDE desktop environment, and the default settings therein, which were interfering with the smooth operation of TDE. It seems to me that TDE is pretty much ready for release into the standard repositories; although my brief bit of research has discovered that a lot entities out there want to block its inclusion in the repositories.
So I am wondering: Is there is some way that TDE can get into the regular repositories (Debian, Ubuntu, etc.)? or if a dependable stand-alone installation disc image can be developed (which does not ride on top of another desktop like Gnome or KDE4/5)? Then we could get out of that /opt folder, and my hunch is that everything would run better.
It seems to me that TDE is nearly ready for release; and if not, it ought to be released through the Trinity repositories. (I mean, not as separate packages, but as its own installation disc.) T
Bill
I have one of those minor bugs that annoys me, and I put it off while I was tracking down other bigger problems. But I tend to use mouse keys (on the num pad) a lot. However, at least once an hour or so, they just stop working, and I have to go into the Trinity Control Center dialogue and set them again.
ALT-F12 enables them, but then the settings aren't mine; the cursors moves slower, and my click keys don't work. Also, many times when this happens my keyboard will also stop working, so I have to go to enable to mouse keys with only the mouse itself working.
I feel like there is probably a configuration file hidden somewhere, or an easy command that would enable them quicker than what I have to do now. On the old KDE3, too, this was somewhat of a problem, but only when I first booted. Then I would enable the mouse keys, and they would be stable for the rest of the session. This is much more buggy.
By the way, I am using an old Apple mouse, model #A1152, and I run Debian Jessie 8.8.x with TDE.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Bill
I have one of those minor bugs that annoys me, and I put it off while I was tracking down other bigger problems. But I tend to use mouse keys (on the num pad) a lot. However, at least once an hour or so, they just stop working, and I have to go into the Trinity Control Center dialogue and set them again.
ALT-F12 enables them, but then the settings aren't mine; the cursors moves slower, and my click keys don't work. Also, many times when this happens my keyboard will also stop working, so I have to go to enable to mouse keys with only the mouse itself working.
I feel like there is probably a configuration file hidden somewhere, or an easy command that would enable them quicker than what I have to do now. On the old KDE3, too, this was somewhat of a problem, but only when I first booted. Then I would enable the mouse keys, and they would be stable for the rest of the session. This is much more buggy.
By the way, I am using an old Apple mouse, model #A1152, and I run Debian Jessie 8.8.x with TDE.
*****addendum Oooops. It occurred to me after I sent it that the keyboard would be more appropriate info. Sorry, I was falling asleep when I wrote that.
It's an HP keyboard #KU1060, but manufactured by Chicony. (This keyboard doesn't appear in TDE's list of supported keyboards, nor any that are close to it. Online research has yielded bugger all.)
This is for use on my desktop computer, which is a Frankenstein of new parts and motherboard, and sata hdds, inside a big old metal case from about the 80s. ***** Thanks for any suggestions.
Bill
First of all, I don't do all that wimpy stuff about using a nano or gedit or what-not for editing my sources.list. I mean, that sounds responsible and orderly (and good boy scouts always follow the rules), but in the long run there are quicker ways.
I gradually figure out what works, so my progress is slow but incremental at first; but after a few reinstallations, I get everything running as I want. So instead of discarding what I ought to have learned by trial and error, I save myself a lot of trouble in the long run by following these methods.
I backup my sources.list like so: sudo cp -r -v -f /etc/apt/sources.list -t /media/<WHEREVER>/sources/jessie/sources.list-orig and change permissions so that I can edit my sources.list without being root. Then I open up sources.list-orig with whatever text editor (I prefer leafpad), making sure to save it as sources.list and not sources.list-orig. When I'm done, I copy it back to where it belongs like so: sudo cp -r -v -f /media/<WHEREVER>/sources/jessie/sources.list -t /etc/apt/ and run sudo apt-get update.
After I have downloaded and installed pkgs, I take the precaution of saving them all to an external drive somewhere, and sort everything into folders (so that everything tde-trinity has its own folder): sudo mv -v -f /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb -t /media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/ and then I change permissions: sudo chmod -R 700 /media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/ | sudo chown -R <MYSELF> /media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/ | sudo chgrp -R <MYSELF> /media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/ (changing <WHEREVER> and <MYSELF>, of course, to whatever is appropriate for your situation.
Then when I need to reinstall stuff, I have already sorted out what works for my system, so I just do: sudo dpkg -i -E -G /media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/*.deb and install everything Trinity and TDE in a couple minutes, rather than waiting literally days for stuff to download. And then I run sudo apt-get -f install to correct any missing dependencies. For me, this is much faster and more reliable. Every so often I run sudo apt-get dist-upgrade and then also move these packages into my folder on a separate drive.
To reinstall my entire system as it is, by downloading packages from the repositories, would take at least a week. If I always waited for packages to download, this would be about the year 2060. Once I have figured out what works, I don't keep trying again and again to solve the same problems. I did try using aptoncd to create discs, but it seems that I need much more space in my root partition to use for temporary files; it worked nicely on older systems. And anyway, sooner or later I will upgrade to something else like Stretch, or switch to Devuan, or both, and then I won't need my old packages, so all I need to do is delete that folder, and change my commands to point to the appropriate places.
I would be curious to know what are other people's methods. I've heard about some net installations already.
Bill
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700 William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
I would be curious to know what are other people's methods. I've heard about some net installations already.
Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do that much work to reinstall the software on an existing system! I'd just issue something like "emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go to bed, and expect 98% of everything to be resolved when I got back up in the morning. A Gentoo machine is always easier to recover than to restart from scratch (and yes, it's possible to switch out major parts of the infrastructure, like openrc <=> systemd and udev <=> eudev, without hosing everything or even having to reinstall any package that doesn't depend directly on the changed one).
I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017), despite a major hardware refresh about midway through that period, and *never* had to start over from scratch. And the only reason I didn't just image the old root partition onto a new drive when I set up my current machine over Christmas was that I figured it was time to get rid of all the leftover cruft from more than a decade of rolling updates.
E. Liddell
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:02:19 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700
William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
I would be curious to know what are other people's methods. I've heard about some net installations already.
Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do that much work to reinstall the software on an existing system! I'd just issue something like "emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go to bed, and expect 98% of everything to be resolved when I got back up in the morning. A Gentoo machine is always easier to recover than to restart from scratch (and yes, it's possible to switch out major parts of the infrastructure, like openrc <=> systemd and udev <=> eudev, without hosing everything or even having to reinstall any package that doesn't depend directly on the changed one).
I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017), despite a major hardware refresh about midway through that period, and *never* had to start over from scratch. And the only reason I didn't just image the old root partition onto a new drive when I set up my current machine over Christmas was that I figured it was time to get rid of all the leftover cruft from more than a decade of rolling updates.
E. Liddell
Ah, but you are an actual geek, and you like this stuff. And I did say that my method was dirty. The only reason I use computers at all is because I must; I build my own computers out of parts because I can't afford to buy anything; and I try to stick with GNU/Linux so that I can be sure that I really own my own computers.
I've only been running Linux since about 2006, and mostly Kubuntu. Only in April of 2017 did I attempt Debian. Once I get a system more or less stable, I almost never need to do a full reinstallation. But then, I have pretty much taught myself, with the help of some Linux books, and researching the forums. And I only know one person in the real world (not online) who can actually offer guidance. Otherwise, most people think I am a computer freak, which I am not.
If I ruled the world, we would all go back to horses and carts, or at least bicycles. I still say that this computer nonsense is just a passing fad, and sooner or later people will wake up.
In the meanwhile, this is what I have to do to keep my computer running. I like what you say, and am always willing to bow before superior knowledge. If I could learn how to use your method on a Debian system, that would be great.
If you can point me in the right direction, I am all ears.
Bill
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On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:24:01 William Morder wrote:
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:02:19 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700
William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
I would be curious to know what are other people's methods. I've heard about some net installations already.
Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do that much work to reinstall the software on an existing system! I'd just issue something like "emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go to bed, and expect 98% of everything to be resolved when I got back up in the morning. A Gentoo machine is always easier to recover than to restart from scratch (and yes, it's possible to switch out major parts of the infrastructure, like openrc <=> systemd and udev <=> eudev, without hosing everything or even having to reinstall any package that doesn't depend directly on the changed one).
I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017), despite a major hardware refresh about midway through that period, and *never* had to start over from scratch. And the only reason I didn't just image the old root partition onto a new drive when I set up my current machine over Christmas was that I figured it was time to get rid of all the leftover cruft from more than a decade of rolling updates.
E. Liddell
Ah, but you are an actual geek, and you like this stuff. And I did say that my method was dirty. The only reason I use computers at all is because I must; I build my own computers out of parts because I can't afford to buy anything; and I try to stick with GNU/Linux so that I can be sure that I really own my own computers.
I've only been running Linux since about 2006, and mostly Kubuntu. Only in April of 2017 did I attempt Debian. Once I get a system more or less stable, I almost never need to do a full reinstallation. But then, I have pretty much taught myself, with the help of some Linux books, and researching the forums. And I only know one person in the real world (not online) who can actually offer guidance. Otherwise, most people think I am a computer freak, which I am not.
If I ruled the world, we would all go back to horses and carts, or at least bicycles. I still say that this computer nonsense is just a passing fad, and sooner or later people will wake up.
In the meanwhile, this is what I have to do to keep my computer running. I like what you say, and am always willing to bow before superior knowledge. If I could learn how to use your method on a Debian system, that would be great.
If you can point me in the right direction, I am all ears.
Bill
P.S. How would you go about maintaining your computers if you sometimes are forced to go for months at a stretch without an Internet connection? Right now I have a fast, reasonably stable connection, but it hasn't always been that way. I started saving packages to reinstall by dpkg so that I could keep my system running even when I am offline.
I used to go to the library with my laptop, to use their connection; but then I would download and save packages to be used in my desktop computer at home, where there was no Internet. If there is a better strategy for survival in those circumstances, I would love to hear it.
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On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 06:09:53 -0700 William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:24:01 William Morder wrote:
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:02:19 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700
William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
I would be curious to know what are other people's methods. I've heard about some net installations already.
Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do that much work to reinstall the software on an existing system! I'd just issue something like "emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go to bed, and expect 98% of everything to be resolved when I got back up in the morning. A Gentoo machine is always easier to recover than to restart from scratch (and yes, it's possible to switch out major parts of the infrastructure, like openrc <=> systemd and udev <=> eudev, without hosing everything or even having to reinstall any package that doesn't depend directly on the changed one).
I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017), despite a major hardware refresh about midway through that period, and *never* had to start over from scratch. And the only reason I didn't just image the old root partition onto a new drive when I set up my current machine over Christmas was that I figured it was time to get rid of all the leftover cruft from more than a decade of rolling updates.
E. Liddell
Ah, but you are an actual geek, and you like this stuff.
Guilty. ;)
And I did say that my method was dirty. The only reason I use computers at all is because I must; I build my own computers out of parts because I can't afford to buy anything; and I try to stick with GNU/Linux so that I can be sure that I really own my own computers.
I've only been running Linux since about 2006, and mostly Kubuntu. Only in April of 2017 did I attempt Debian. Once I get a system more or less stable, I almost never need to do a full reinstallation. But then, I have pretty much taught myself, with the help of some Linux books, and researching the forums. And I only know one person in the real world (not online) who can actually offer guidance. Otherwise, most people think I am a computer freak, which I am not.
If I ruled the world, we would all go back to horses and carts, or at least bicycles. I still say that this computer nonsense is just a passing fad, and sooner or later people will wake up.
In the meanwhile, this is what I have to do to keep my computer running. I like what you say, and am always willing to bow before superior knowledge. If I could learn how to use your method on a Debian system, that would be great.
If you can point me in the right direction, I am all ears.
Unfortunately, how I get away with what I do is kind of rooted in the way Gentoo's package manager works and how Gentoo, as a distro, differs from Debian (and they're just about as different as can be--Gentoo is a rolling-release source-based distro that expects you to be at home with a command line and lacks a graphical install tool).
A limited version of the same thing should be possible with any rolling-release distro, but I'm not familiar with any Debian-based ones.
P.S. How would you go about maintaining your computers if you sometimes are forced to go for months at a stretch without an Internet connection? Right now I have a fast, reasonably stable connection, but it hasn't always been that way. I started saving packages to reinstall by dpkg so that I could keep my system running even when I am offline.
I used to go to the library with my laptop, to use their connection; but then I would download and save packages to be used in my desktop computer at home, where there was no Internet. If there is a better strategy for survival in those circumstances, I would love to hear it.
I don't think there's any easy way to deal with that problem, unfortunately. Among the things I'd probably end up doing would be poking through the old distro-specific software intended to minimize bandwidth use for dial-up users back in the day. That, and manually pulling down certain types of files using a download manager if the package manager couldn't handle things on its own. That assumes that I would have *some* kind of connection, just not a fast or stable one, though--dial-up modem, tethered phone, whatever. I've been doing this juuuust long enough to remember how not-fun trying to update over dial-up was.
Gentoo's package manager keeps the files needed for a (re-)install of any package unless you purge them manually, and copying them around to multiple machines isn't a problem. You can also fetch packages without installing if you pass the right flag. The idea of having to explicitly set the system to keep stuff was part of what made me boggle.
E. Liddell
On Monday 19 March 2018 16:44:34 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 06:09:53 -0700
William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:24:01 William Morder wrote:
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:02:19 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700
William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
I would be curious to know what are other people's methods. I've heard about some net installations already.
Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do that much work to reinstall the software on an existing system! I'd just issue something like "emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go to bed, and expect 98% of everything to be resolved when I got back up in the morning. A Gentoo machine is always easier to recover than to restart from scratch (and yes, it's possible to switch out major parts of the infrastructure, like openrc <=> systemd and udev <=> eudev, without hosing everything or even having to reinstall any package that doesn't depend directly on the changed one).
I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017), despite a major hardware refresh about midway through that period, and *never* had to start over from scratch. And the only reason I didn't just image the old root partition onto a new drive when I set up my current machine over Christmas was that I figured it was time to get rid of all the leftover cruft from more than a decade of rolling updates.
E. Liddell
Ah, but you are an actual geek, and you like this stuff.
Guilty. ;)
And I did say that my method was dirty. The only reason I use computers at all is because I must; I build my own computers out of parts because I can't afford to buy anything; and I try to stick with GNU/Linux so that I can be sure that I really own my own computers.
I've only been running Linux since about 2006, and mostly Kubuntu. Only in April of 2017 did I attempt Debian. Once I get a system more or less stable, I almost never need to do a full reinstallation. But then, I have pretty much taught myself, with the help of some Linux books, and researching the forums. And I only know one person in the real world (not online) who can actually offer guidance. Otherwise, most people think I am a computer freak, which I am not.
If I ruled the world, we would all go back to horses and carts, or at least bicycles. I still say that this computer nonsense is just a passing fad, and sooner or later people will wake up.
In the meanwhile, this is what I have to do to keep my computer running. I like what you say, and am always willing to bow before superior knowledge. If I could learn how to use your method on a Debian system, that would be great.
If you can point me in the right direction, I am all ears.
Unfortunately, how I get away with what I do is kind of rooted in the way Gentoo's package manager works and how Gentoo, as a distro, differs from Debian (and they're just about as different as can be--Gentoo is a rolling-release source-based distro that expects you to be at home with a command line and lacks a graphical install tool).
A limited version of the same thing should be possible with any rolling-release distro, but I'm not familiar with any Debian-based ones.
P.S. How would you go about maintaining your computers if you sometimes are forced to go for months at a stretch without an Internet connection? Right now I have a fast, reasonably stable connection, but it hasn't always been that way. I started saving packages to reinstall by dpkg so that I could keep my system running even when I am offline.
I used to go to the library with my laptop, to use their connection; but then I would download and save packages to be used in my desktop computer at home, where there was no Internet. If there is a better strategy for survival in those circumstances, I would love to hear it.
I don't think there's any easy way to deal with that problem, unfortunately. Among the things I'd probably end up doing would be poking through the old distro-specific software intended to minimize bandwidth use for dial-up users back in the day. That, and manually pulling down certain types of files using a download manager if the package manager couldn't handle things on its own. That assumes that I would have *some* kind of connection, just not a fast or stable one, though--dial-up modem, tethered phone, whatever. I've been doing this juuuust long enough to remember how not-fun trying to update over dial-up was.
Gentoo's package manager keeps the files needed for a (re-)install of any package unless you purge them manually, and copying them around to multiple machines isn't a problem. You can also fetch packages without installing if you pass the right flag. The idea of having to explicitly set the system to keep stuff was part of what made me boggle.
E. Liddell
If I can ever find a publisher to give me enough money to live in the regal style that deserve (and if I should live long enough to complete the Great Work, and if they are still actually publishing books written by human beings at that time), then maybe I can afford my very only reliable Internet connection, and I would be glad to try out Gentoo.
Gentoo is only vaguely on my radar, but I do like to try out new things. One reason I usually create a root partition of 30 gb or so is that I like to download and try out lots of new stuff; but then I also get rid of whatever isn't really useful, or which only duplicates the functions of another program.
When I have a reliable Internet connection, this isn't a problem; but right now I don't own my connection (and the wifi password would be absurdly easy for a child to crack). When my Internet is non-existent, I take my laptop to the library and download packages, copy them to an external hdd, then bring them home and install them on my desktop.
Thanks for caring, though.
Bill
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On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:22:51 -0700 William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
If I can ever find a publisher to give me enough money to live in the regal style that deserve (and if I should live long enough to complete the Great Work, and if they are still actually publishing books written by human beings at that time), then maybe I can afford my very only reliable Internet connection, and I would be glad to try out Gentoo.
Your techie friend would probably look at you funny if you suggested installing it, anyway. There's an old humour piece about operating systems as airlines that you can find kicking around the internet, and the Linux segment includes something along the lines of, "Upon boarding the plane, you're handed an uninstalled seat, a handful of bolts, a wrench, and a copy of seat-HOWTO. Once you get it installed, the adjustable seat is very comfortable, the plane takes off and lands on time, and the in-flight meal is just perfect, but whenever you try to discuss the experience with someone, all they ever say is, 'You had to do *what* to the seat?!'"
Gentoo is very much a "You had to do *what* to the seat?!" distro. The install process is command-line oriented and hands-on, installing a new package can take some time because it (usually) needs to be compiled, and you're expected to put in a bit of work in terms of untangling your own messes with the aid of the (usually pretty good) documentation. In return, it offers a knowledgeable community, complete control of every optional dependency on the system, and programs that run slightly faster and install less cruft because they're tailored for your machine and not some generic abstraction.
I like it, but then I code for a living, I'm a control freak, and I'm willing to put in a little more time when I have to (to avoid having to put in a lot more time down the road).
E. Liddell
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 05:28:57 E. Liddell wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:22:51 -0700
William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
If I can ever find a publisher to give me enough money to live in the regal style that deserve (and if I should live long enough to complete the Great Work, and if they are still actually publishing books written by human beings at that time), then maybe I can afford my very only
should be <own> not <only>, sorry!
reliable Internet connection, and I would be glad to try out Gentoo.
Your techie friend would probably look at you funny if you suggested installing it, anyway.
Nah, I think he would know Gentoo. He compiles everything from source.
There's an old humour piece about operating systems as airlines that you can find kicking around the internet, and the Linux segment includes something along the lines of, "Upon boarding the plane, you're handed an uninstalled seat, a handful of bolts, a wrench, and a copy of seat-HOWTO. Once you get it installed, the adjustable seat is very comfortable, the plane takes off and lands on time, and the in-flight meal is just perfect, but whenever you try to discuss the experience with someone, all they ever say is, 'You had to do *what* to the seat?!'"
You forgot the process about tanning hides to make own custom seat leather.
Gentoo is very much a "You had to do *what* to the seat?!" distro. The install process is command-line oriented and hands-on, installing a new package can take some time because it (usually) needs to be compiled, and you're expected to put in a bit of work in terms of untangling your own messes with the aid of the (usually pretty good) documentation. In return, it offers a knowledgeable community, complete control of every optional dependency on the system, and programs that run slightly faster and install less cruft because they're tailored for your machine and not some generic abstraction.
That sounds tantalizingly seductive, but one also must set limits. I don't code for a living, but use my computer for writing and editing (as well as layout for books, etc.), as well as sometimes for producing my own music.
I like it, but then I code for a living, I'm a control freak, and I'm willing to put in a little more time when I have to (to avoid having to put in a lot more time down the road).
E. Liddell
I like Gentoo already, just because it is so perversely arcane. I don't so much like computers, or (modern) machines in general (noting that a wagon might be considered a machine, and certainly a bicycle). However, I do rather enjoy the aspects of hidden mysteries, deciphering codes, and an underground brotherhood (and sisterhood) - complete with secret handshakes and alternate identities.
More than that, I really just like to feel like I own my own computer, that I can, through my own efforts, come to control it, and that I am allowed to take apart both hardware and software and put it back together in ways that the original designers never intended; and thereby either improve it, or totally mess it up beyond all hope of recovery, with nothing left but to start over with what I like to call The Long Dark System Reinstallation of the Soul.
The problem with freedom is that it never comes free, nor even cheap. If you want it, you have to work at it. And I'm not so much a political activist (though some seem to think so based on the fact that I sometimes write eccentric pieces that happen to trespass into politics and social issues); but I do want to feel that my computer, and everything in it, is all mine, and controlled by me. Thus I expect that it won't always be easy to attain such concrete goals; which, paradoxically, are regarded by a lot of people as some kind of arty-farty aesthetic ideal. I would love to give in to "convention", and have everything come easy; but I get older and crankier, and cannot force myself to fit into prefabricated ways of doing anything.
When I try to explain to "outsiders" the varying degrees of Unix, Linux (and variants like BSD), then Redhat, Debian - as well the true, pure faith of GNU/Linux, and all that - I invariably take a shortcut and say simply that Linux is not so much a kind of operating system as a lifestyle, or a mystic cult.
Again, it is like a musician friend of mine (who was always broke) tried to explain blues and jazz music: they are not music forms, or genres, but rather a way of life.
If I can't own my own computer, and make it run like I want, then I will run no computer at all. I will crawl back under my rock, and wait until the times change.
Bill
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Am Dienstag, 20. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
When I try to explain to "outsiders" the varying degrees of Unix, Linux (and variants like BSD), then Redhat, Debian - as well the true, pure faith of GNU/Linux, and all that - I invariably take a shortcut and say simply that Linux is not so much a kind of operating system as a lifestyle, or a mystic cult.
LOL ... my accountant thinks it's about religion when he hears some talk about linux :-)
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 06:40:20 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Dienstag, 20. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
When I try to explain to "outsiders" the varying degrees of Unix, Linux (and variants like BSD), then Redhat, Debian - as well the true, pure faith of GNU/Linux, and all that - I invariably take a shortcut and say simply that Linux is not so much a kind of operating system as a lifestyle, or a mystic cult.
LOL ... my accountant thinks it's about religion when he hears some talk about linux :-)
Like a joke (or maybe like Zen): you either get it, or you don't. If you don't get the point, no amount of explanation can make it more understandable. If you do get the point, then a little explanation can open up new worlds that you never even knew existed before.
Bill
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root partition keep disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme to something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I have to go through these steps manually, again and again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by command-line, anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> And the first time I did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my system (some months ago), I have the same problem again, and nothing works to fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating space on my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this kept shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf tells me that I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a fresh reboot); this, I predict - based on past experience - will gradually shrink down to 0 over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with gparted, slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to wiggle. I used to allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but then I thought, hey, I've got my system pretty well set up, and won't be downloading much of anything new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning out extraneous unnecessary crap. The newer distros, though, use up more and more space on the root partition, just because they can; due to the fact that hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper - even though not all of us can afford to go out and buy a new one right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso image to a CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it tells me it's empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other drives (not root), I can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate of 1 mb every few minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to another, the same thing happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to the same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame this on systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd seems to interfere with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an open mind, as it could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't track down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks EVERYTHING outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a few ports. I keep watching for some kind of activity that might show me what's going on, but so far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's already backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger problem, I would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty long time.
Bill
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root partition keep disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme to something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I have to go through these steps manually, again and again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by command-line, anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> And the first time I did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my system (some months ago), I have the same problem again, and nothing works to fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating space on my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this kept shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf tells me that I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a fresh reboot); this, I predict - based on past experience - will gradually shrink down to 0 over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with gparted, slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to wiggle. I used to allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but then I thought, hey, I've got my system pretty well set up, and won't be downloading much of anything new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning out extraneous unnecessary crap. The newer distros, though, use up more and more space on the root partition, just because they can; due to the fact that hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper - even though not all of us can afford to go out and buy a new one right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso image to a CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it tells me it's empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other drives (not root), I can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate of 1 mb every few minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to another, the same thing happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to the same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame this on systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd seems to interfere with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an open mind, as it could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't track down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks EVERYTHING outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a few ports. I keep watching for some kind of activity that might show me what's going on, but so far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's already backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger problem, I would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty long time.
Bill
Hi!
guess you never cleared the apt archive:
# apt-get clean
then you might look at the usual suspects:
# di -sch /*
or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size view" ...
nik
On Monday 19 March 2018 05:26:39 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root partition keep disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme to something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I have to go through these steps manually, again and again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by command-line, anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> And the first time I did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my system (some months ago), I have the same problem again, and nothing works to fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating space on my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this kept shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf tells me that I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a fresh reboot); this, I predict - based on past experience - will gradually shrink down to 0 over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with gparted, slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to wiggle. I used to allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but then I thought, hey, I've got my system pretty well set up, and won't be downloading much of anything new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning out extraneous unnecessary crap. The newer distros, though, use up more and more space on the root partition, just because they can; due to the fact that hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper - even though not all of us can afford to go out and buy a new one right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso image to a CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it tells me it's empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other drives (not root), I can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate of 1 mb every few minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to another, the same thing happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to the same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame this on systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd seems to interfere with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an open mind, as it could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't track down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks EVERYTHING outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a few ports. I keep watching for some kind of activity that might show me what's going on, but so far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's already backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger problem, I would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty long time.
Bill
Hi!
guess you never cleared the apt archive:
# apt-get clean
then you might look at the usual suspects:
# di -sch /*
or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size view" ...
nik
No, you're wrong there. I clear it manually (as I explain in my "quick & dirty" post), using this command: sudo mv -v -f /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb -t /media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/ I save all my packages so that I can install them manually with dpkg; due to the fact that I must often make do without any Internet connection. There is nothing in this folder.
Next suggestion?
Bill
Try something like this to find the largest files https://www.tecmint.com/find-top-large-directories-and-files-sizes-in-linux/
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 8:26 AM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp office@klepp.biz wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root partition keep disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme to something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I
have to
go through these steps manually, again and again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by
command-line,
anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> And the first
time I
did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my system (some months ago),
I
have the same problem again, and nothing works to fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating
space on
my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this kept shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf tells me
that
I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a fresh
reboot);
this, I predict - based on past experience - will gradually shrink down
to 0
over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with
gparted,
slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to wiggle. I
used to
allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but then I thought, hey,
I've
got my system pretty well set up, and won't be downloading much of
anything
new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning out extraneous unnecessary
crap.
The newer distros, though, use up more and more space on the root
partition,
just because they can; due to the fact that hard drives are getting
bigger
and cheaper - even though not all of us can afford to go out and buy a
new
one right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso
image to a
CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it tells me
it's
empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other drives (not
root), I
can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate of 1 mb every
few
minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to another, the same
thing
happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to
the
same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame this on systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd seems to
interfere
with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an open mind, as it could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't
track
down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks
EVERYTHING
outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a few ports. I
keep
watching for some kind of activity that might show me what's going on,
but so
far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's
already
backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger problem, I would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty
long
time.
Bill
Hi!
guess you never cleared the apt archive:
# apt-get clean
then you might look at the usual suspects:
# di -sch /*
or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size view" ...
nik
-- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ...
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe@ lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help@lists. pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users. pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity. pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
On Monday 19 March 2018 05:26:39 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root partition keep disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme to something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I have to go through these steps manually, again and again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by command-line, anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> And the first time I did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my system (some months ago), I have the same problem again, and nothing works to fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating space on my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this kept shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf tells me that I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a fresh reboot); this, I predict - based on past experience - will gradually shrink down to 0 over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with gparted, slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to wiggle. I used to allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but then I thought, hey, I've got my system pretty well set up, and won't be downloading much of anything new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning out extraneous unnecessary crap. The newer distros, though, use up more and more space on the root partition, just because they can; due to the fact that hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper - even though not all of us can afford to go out and buy a new one right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso image to a CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it tells me it's empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other drives (not root), I can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate of 1 mb every few minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to another, the same thing happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to the same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame this on systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd seems to interfere with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an open mind, as it could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't track down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks EVERYTHING outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a few ports. I keep watching for some kind of activity that might show me what's going on, but so far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's already backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger problem, I would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty long time.
Bill
Hi!
guess you never cleared the apt archive:
# apt-get clean
then you might look at the usual suspects:
# di -sch /*
or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size view" ...
nik
Other suggestions: the command (I am supposing) # di -sch /* returns bash: di: command not found
What is di? command? software package to download?
And konqueror returns this information: "FSView intentionally does not support automatic updates when changes are made to files or directories, currently visible in FSView, from the outside."
I opened konqueror as root, and am reviewing info now. I have a picture of my hard drive, but so far nothing unusual. (I've seen this before, but haven't done it in a while.)
Bill
There is also ways to look for newest files https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5893748/linux-command-to-check-new-files...
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 8:56 AM, William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
On Monday 19 March 2018 05:26:39 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root partition keep disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme
to
something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I have to go through these steps manually, again and again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by command-line, anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> And the first time I did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my system (some months ago), I have the same problem again, and nothing works to fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating space on my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this kept shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf
tells
me that I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a fresh reboot); this, I predict - based on past experience - will gradually shrink down to 0 over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with gparted, slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to wiggle. I used to allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but
then
I thought, hey, I've got my system pretty well set up, and won't be downloading much of anything new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning out extraneous unnecessary crap. The newer distros, though, use up more and more space on the root partition, just because they can; due to the fact that hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper - even though not all of us can afford to go out and buy a new one right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso
image
to a CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it
tells
me it's empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other drives (not root), I can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate
of
1 mb every few minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to another, the same thing happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to the same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame this on systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd
seems
to interfere with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an
open
mind, as it could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't track down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks EVERYTHING outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a few ports. I keep watching for some kind of activity that might show me what's going on, but so far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's already backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger problem, I would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty long time.
Bill
Hi!
guess you never cleared the apt archive:
# apt-get clean
then you might look at the usual suspects:
# di -sch /*
or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size view" ...
nik
Other suggestions: the command (I am supposing) # di -sch /* returns bash: di: command not found
What is di? command? software package to download?
And konqueror returns this information: "FSView intentionally does not support automatic updates when changes are made to files or directories, currently visible in FSView, from the outside."
I opened konqueror as root, and am reviewing info now. I have a picture of my hard drive, but so far nothing unusual. (I've seen this before, but haven't done it in a while.)
Bill
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe@ lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help@lists. pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users. pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity. pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:00:14 Pisini, John wrote:
There is also ways to look for newest files https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5893748/linux-command-to-check-new-file s-in-file-system
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 8:56 AM, William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com
wrote:
On Monday 19 March 2018 05:26:39 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root partition keep disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme
to
something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I have to go through these steps manually, again and again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by command-line, anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> And the first time I did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my system (some months ago), I have the same problem again, and nothing works to fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating space on my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this kept shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf
tells
me that I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a fresh reboot); this, I predict - based on past experience - will gradually shrink down to 0 over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with gparted, slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to wiggle. I used to allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but
then
I thought, hey, I've got my system pretty well set up, and won't be downloading much of anything new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning out extraneous unnecessary crap. The newer distros, though, use up more and more space on the root partition, just because they can; due to the fact that hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper
- even though not all of us can afford to go out and buy a new one
right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso
image
to a CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it
tells
me it's empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other drives (not root), I can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate
of
1 mb every few minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to another, the same thing happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to the same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame this on systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd
seems
to interfere with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an
open
mind, as it could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't track down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks EVERYTHING outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a few ports. I keep watching for some kind of activity that might show me what's going on, but so far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's already backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger problem, I would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty long time.
Bill
Hi!
guess you never cleared the apt archive:
# apt-get clean
then you might look at the usual suspects:
# di -sch /*
or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size view" ...
nik
Other suggestions: the command (I am supposing) # di -sch /* returns bash: di: command not found
What is di? command? software package to download?
And konqueror returns this information: "FSView intentionally does not support automatic updates when changes are made to files or directories, currently visible in FSView, from the outside."
I opened konqueror as root, and am reviewing info now. I have a picture of my hard drive, but so far nothing unusual. (I've seen this before, but haven't done it in a while.)
Bill
I opened konqueror as root, and it shows details of everything in all my drives, but for root is just one big amorphous blob.
By the way, the TDE mailing list mods ask that we don't top-post. Of course, we also go totally off-topic on occasion, so they're pretty lenient. Most of us try to stick to that rule, so it's easier to follow the threads.
Bill
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On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 06:09:24AM -0700, William Morder wrote:
By the way, the TDE mailing list mods ask that we don't top-post.
I don't think they mean to bottom-post at the end of two or three pages of quoted text.
I think they mean to interleave your responses immediately after the relevant quoted text, trimming anything irrelevant.
Top-posting is often annoying, but I can tell you it's not as annoying as having to scroll down past thirty pages of quoting up to a dozen levels deep:
> > > > > > blah blah blah blah...
to finally see the one and only line of new content:
"Me too!!!"
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:32:52 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 06:09:24AM -0700, William Morder wrote:
By the way, the TDE mailing list mods ask that we don't top-post.
I don't think they mean to bottom-post at the end of two or three pages of quoted text.
I think they mean to interleave your responses immediately after the relevant quoted text, trimming anything irrelevant.
Top-posting is often annoying, but I can tell you it's not as annoying as having to scroll down past thirty pages of quoting up to a dozen
levels deep:
> > > > > > > blah blah blah blah...
to finally see the one and only line of new content:
"Me too!!!"
That's true, but then I usually try to cut out the extraneous stuff. My own posts can get long-winded, but I expect to be edited down to human size by others. I think it's fine to comment after the other person's points, one-at-a-time. It keeps the flow of thought together.
In other words, me too.
That particular response would have made more sense at the end; I wasn't pointing it out to be a jerk. I only care for reasons of comprehension; and that particular person had some useful information to offer. Otherwise, I politely ignore people who don't follow the rules; I myself don't make the rules here, and usually can be found on the other side of that line.
Of late we have been going totally off-topic a lot, for which I must admit mea maxima culpa.
Bill
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
[...] Other suggestions: the command (I am supposing) # di -sch /* returns bash: di: command not found
What is di? command? software package to download?
oh my ... should be "du" :-)
And konqueror returns this information: "FSView intentionally does not support automatic updates when changes are made to files or directories, currently visible in FSView, from the outside."
I opened konqueror as root, and am reviewing info now. I have a picture of my hard drive, but so far nothing unusual. (I've seen this before, but haven't done it in a while.)
Bill
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On Monday 19 March 2018 06:11:24 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
[...] Other suggestions: the command (I am supposing) # di -sch /* returns bash: di: command not found
What is di? command? software package to download?
oh my ... should be "du" :-)
And konqueror returns this information: "FSView intentionally does not support automatic updates when changes are made to files or directories, currently visible in FSView, from the outside."
I opened konqueror as root, and am reviewing info now. I have a picture of my hard drive, but so far nothing unusual. (I've seen this before, but haven't done it in a while.)
Bill
That makes more sense. Another user just sent me to a web page that describes that command. Your version works better, though, for my purposes. I could probably have found the information on those web pages, but it would have taken time to sift it out from other stuff.
So I get this in my terminal: 4.0K /afs 11M /bin 160M /boot 0 /dev 57M /etc 26G /home 0 /initrd.img 0 /initrd.img.old 576M /lib 4.0K /live-build 16K /lost+found
Nothing looks too much out of the ordinary; I already can account for everything in my /home directory, I think, and next biggest is /lib. So how does 18 gb vanish?
Bill
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On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 06:25:15AM -0700, William Morder wrote:
So I get this in my terminal:
(I presume this is the output of du -- it might help if you show the actual command you ran.)
4.0K /afs 11M /bin 160M /boot 0 /dev 57M /etc 26G /home 0 /initrd.img 0 /initrd.img.old 576M /lib 4.0K /live-build 16K /lost+found
Nothing looks too much out of the ordinary; I already can account for everything in my /home directory, I think, and next biggest is /lib. So how does 18 gb vanish?
Sorry for asking a dumb question, but what makes you say that 18GB has vanished?
Also, I'm a little disturbed by the fact that you don't appear to have a / partition, although I'm not up to date with the brave new world of systemd, maybe there's no such thing anymore...
What do you get when you run this?
df --si
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:39:23 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 06:25:15AM -0700, William Morder wrote:
So I get this in my terminal:
(I presume this is the output of du -- it might help if you show the actual command you ran.)
Yes, sorry, I ran du -sch /* as per Nik Klepp's recommendation.
Sorry, I don't always recognize that you haven't followed the threads. I try to be clear.
4.0K /afs 11M /bin 160M /boot 0 /dev 57M /etc 26G /home 0 /initrd.img 0 /initrd.img.old 576M /lib 4.0K /live-build 16K /lost+found
Nothing looks too much out of the ordinary; I already can account for everything in my /home directory, I think, and next biggest is /lib. So how does 18 gb vanish?
Sorry for asking a dumb question, but what makes you say that 18GB has vanished?
Well, I have allotted 18 gb for my root partition, and kdf shows me as having 169.5 mb free at the moment. Before I rebooted (just now), I had about 262 mb, I think it was. A couple weeks ago, I had over 1 gb free, and I haven't downloaded anything.
Also, I'm a little disturbed by the fact that you don't appear to have a / partition, although I'm not up to date with the brave new world of systemd, maybe there's no such thing anymore...
I said this earlier, but here are my partitions:
sda1 / 18 gb sda2 swap 4 gb sda3 /home 78 gb (more or less)
What do you get when you run this?
df --si
/dev/sda1 18G 17G 178M 99% / udev 11M 0 11M 0% /dev tmpfs 423M 6.7M 416M 2% /run tmpfs 1.1G 0 1.1G 0% /dev/shm tmpfs 5.3M 4.1k 5.3M 1% /run/lock tmpfs 1.1G 0 1.1G 0% /sys/fs/cgroup /dev/sda3 77G 28G 46G 38% /home tmpfs 212M 13k 212M 1% /run/user/1000
Looks like tmpfs has the most used up.
Bill
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:39:23 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 06:25:15AM -0700, William Morder wrote:
So I get this in my terminal:
(I presume this is the output of du -- it might help if you show the actual command you ran.)
Yes, sorry, I ran du -sch /* as per Nik Klepp's recommendation.
Forgot: if it's a "hidden" file like '.swap' you'll have to use: # du -sch /* /.*
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 06:25 (UTC-0700):
So I get this in my terminal: 4.0K /afs 11M /bin 160M /boot 57M /etc 26G /home 576M /lib 4.0K /live-build 16K /lost+found
What's in /var/log/?
# du -sch /* 4.8M /bin 174M /boot 0 /dev 27M /etc 22G /home 1.4G /lib 19M /lib64 16K /lost+found 4.0K /media 4.0K /mnt 375M /opt 0 /proc 111M /root 2.5M /run 5.0M /sbin 4.0K /selinux 1.9G /srv 0 /sys 2.4G /tmp 5.4G /usr 1.6G /var # df / Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/md2 18011336 7680600 9392760 45% /
On Monday 19 March 2018 07:10:57 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 06:25 (UTC-0700):
So I get this in my terminal: 4.0K /afs 11M /bin 160M /boot 57M /etc 26G /home 576M /lib 4.0K /live-build 16K /lost+found
What's in /var/log/?
# du -sch /* 4.8M /bin 174M /boot 0 /dev 27M /etc 22G /home 1.4G /lib 19M /lib64 16K /lost+found 4.0K /media 4.0K /mnt 375M /opt 0 /proc 111M /root 2.5M /run 5.0M /sbin 4.0K /selinux 1.9G /srv 0 /sys 2.4G /tmp 5.4G /usr 1.6G /var # df / Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/md2 18011336 7680600 9392760 45% /
Improvising on the command recommended by Nik Klepp: du -sch /var/log/* 100K /var/log/alternatives.log 68K /var/log/apache2 4.0K /var/log/apparmor 1.4M /var/log/apt 60K /var/log/auth.log 316K /var/log/auth.log.1 28K /var/log/auth.log.2.gz 16K /var/log/auth.log.3.gz 4.0K /var/log/bittorrent 0 /var/log/bootstrap.log 0 /var/log/btmp 8.0K /var/log/camo 4.0K /var/log/c-icap 588K /var/log/clamav 124K /var/log/clamav-unofficial-sigs.log 40K /var/log/clamav-unofficial-sigs.log.1.gz 40K /var/log/clamav-unofficial-sigs.log.2.gz 96K /var/log/ConsoleKit 48K /var/log/cubemap 40K /var/log/cups 1.7M /var/log/daemon.log 6.7M /var/log/daemon.log.1 528K /var/log/daemon.log.2.gz 92K /var/log/daemon.log.3.gz 32K /var/log/debug 272K /var/log/debug.1 24K /var/log/debug.2.gz 4.0K /var/log/debug.3.gz 8.0K /var/log/dirmngr 0 /var/log/dmesg 3.0M /var/log/dpkg.log 60K /var/log/exim4 4.0K /var/log/fai 8.0K /var/log/faillog 60K /var/log/firewalld 12K /var/log/fontconfig.log 4.0K /var/log/fsck 0 /var/log/fts.log 4.0K /var/log/fts.log.1 4.0K /var/log/glusterfs 52K /var/log/gnunetd 4.0K /var/log/gnustep-back-common.log 8.0K /var/log/hp 15M /var/log/installer 0 /var/log/kdm.log 4.0K /var/log/kdm.log.1 19M /var/log/kern.log 40M /var/log/kern.log.1 3.5M /var/log/kern.log.2.gz 36K /var/log/kern.log.3.gz 20K /var/log/lastlog 8.0K /var/log/macchanger.log 4.0K /var/log/macchanger.log.1.gz 4.0K /var/log/macchanger.log.2.gz 4.0K /var/log/mail.err 4.0K /var/log/mail.err.1 4.0K /var/log/mail.err.2.gz 4.0K /var/log/mail.err.3.gz 4.0K /var/log/mail.info 4.0K /var/log/mail.info.1 4.0K /var/log/mail.info.2.gz 4.0K /var/log/mail.info.3.gz 4.0K /var/log/mail.log 4.0K /var/log/mail.log.1 4.0K /var/log/mail.log.2.gz 4.0K /var/log/mail.log.3.gz 4.0K /var/log/mail.warn 4.0K /var/log/mail.warn.1 4.0K /var/log/mail.warn.2.gz 4.0K /var/log/mail.warn.3.gz 19M /var/log/messages 40M /var/log/messages.1 3.5M /var/log/messages.2.gz 36K /var/log/messages.3.gz 4.0K /var/log/mixmaster 4.0K /var/log/ntpstats 8.0K /var/log/partimage 12K /var/log/privoxy 4.0K /var/log/samba 4.0K /var/log/speech-dispatcher 1.3M /var/log/syslog 19M /var/log/syslog.1 1.1M /var/log/syslog.2.gz 700K /var/log/syslog.3.gz 436K /var/log/syslog.4.gz 344K /var/log/syslog.5.gz 908K /var/log/syslog.6.gz 688K /var/log/syslog.7.gz 732K /var/log/tdm.log 8.0K /var/log/tor 12K /var/log/ufw.log 184K /var/log/ufw.log.1 24K /var/log/ufw.log.2.gz 12K /var/log/user.log 200K /var/log/user.log.1 16K /var/log/user.log.2.gz 8.0K /var/log/user.log.3.gz 444K /var/log/wicd 112K /var/log/wtmp 20K /var/log/Xorg.0.log 20K /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old 116K /var/log/xymon 180M total
I don't know if anything looks suspicious in that. I appreciate the help, if anybody sees something, or can recommend where else to look.
Bill
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 06:25 (UTC-0700):
So I get this in my terminal: 4.0K /afs 11M /bin 160M /boot 0 /dev 57M /etc 26G /home 0 /initrd.img 0 /initrd.img.old 576M /lib 4.0K /live-build 16K /lost+found
What about the rest of /? It took my 18GB / a while to finish after it got to lost+found.
16K /lost+found 4.0K /media 4.0K /mnt 375M /opt 0 /proc 111M /root 2.5M /run 5.0M /sbin 4.0K /selinux 1.9G /srv 0 /sys 2.4G /tmp 5.4G /usr 1.6G /var
On Monday 19 March 2018 08:27:19 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 06:25 (UTC-0700):
So I get this in my terminal: 4.0K /afs 11M /bin 160M /boot 0 /dev 57M /etc 26G /home 0 /initrd.img 0 /initrd.img.old 576M /lib 4.0K /live-build 16K /lost+found
What about the rest of /? It took my 18GB / a while to finish after it got to lost+found.
16K /lost+found 4.0K /media 4.0K /mnt 375M /opt 0 /proc 111M /root 2.5M /run 5.0M /sbin 4.0K /selinux 1.9G /srv 0 /sys 2.4G /tmp 5.4G /usr 1.6G /var
The rest seemed to be only my external hard drives, so I killed it when it appeared to be doing nothing else. However, I can try to let it run longer.
Bill
What about the rest of /? It took my 18GB / a while to finish after it got to lost+found.
The rest seemed to be only my external hard drives, so I killed it when it appeared to be doing nothing else. However, I can try to let it run longer.
Continuing, having now let du command run longer, here is what I get: # du -sch /* 4.0K /afs 11M /bin 160M /boot 0 /dev 57M /etc 26G /home 0 /initrd.img 0 /initrd.img.old 576M /lib 4.0K /live-build 16K /lost+found 4.5T /media 4.0K /mnt 1.1G /opt du: cannot access ‘/proc/19131/task/19131/fd/3’: No such file or directory du: cannot access ‘/proc/19131/task/19131/fdinfo/3’: No such file or directory du: cannot access ‘/proc/19131/fd/3’: No such file or directory du: cannot access ‘/proc/19131/fdinfo/3’: No such file or directory 0 /proc 2.2M /root du: cannot access ‘/run/user/1000/gvfs’: Permission denied 12M /run 22M /sbin 8.0K /srv 0 /sys 91M /tmp 13G /usr 1.6G /var 0 /vmlinuz 0 /vmlinuz.old 4.5T total
Looks like something in /usr takes up most of the drive. So to continue our investigation: # du -sch /usr/* 644M /usr/bin 836K /usr/games 247M /usr/include 5.3G /usr/lib 144K /usr/local 45M /usr/sbin 6.1G /usr/share 157M /usr/src 13G total - where I find that /usr/lib and /usr/share take up the most. I don't think you really want to read the whole list for these folders. Thus here are the items that take up the most space. Most look pretty innocuous: 1.6G /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu but in /usr/lib at the end I get 5.3G total - but nothing else is more than a few kb or mb. The same thing happens when I look in /usr/share; the biggest item is: 1.9G /usr/share/doc - and nothing else takes up more than a few kb or mb, yet at the end I get: 6.1G total
Bill
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William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 09:31 (UTC-0700): ...
13G total
- where I find that /usr/lib and /usr/share take up the most. I don't think
you really want to read the whole list for these folders. Thus here are the items that take up the most space. Most look pretty innocuous: 1.6G /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu but in /usr/lib at the end I get 5.3G total
- but nothing else is more than a few kb or mb. The same thing happens when I
look in /usr/share; the biggest item is: 1.9G /usr/share/doc
- and nothing else takes up more than a few kb or mb, yet at the end I get:
6.1G total
1-Have you ever manually added content to, or removed content from, /usr/ (other than /usr/local/), including with a backup/restore program (not package any manager)?
2-Is your / filesystem type BTRFS?
3-How many installed kernels and initrds do you have?
4-Do you have many optional font packages installed?
5-Asking on debian-user list may draw a more helpful response.
If answer to 1 is yes, suspect possible broken hard links.
Even though we both use 18G / filesystems, mine has only 444M in /usr/lib/ and 1.3G in /usr/share/. I have 5 installed kernels, and EXT4 /. # df / Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/md2 18011336 7691316 9382044 46% /
On Monday 19 March 2018 12:34:39 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 09:31 (UTC-0700): ...
13G total
- where I find that /usr/lib and /usr/share take up the most. I don't
think you really want to read the whole list for these folders. Thus here are the items that take up the most space. Most look pretty innocuous: 1.6G /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu but in /usr/lib at the end I get 5.3G total
- but nothing else is more than a few kb or mb. The same thing happens
when I look in /usr/share; the biggest item is: 1.9G /usr/share/doc
- and nothing else takes up more than a few kb or mb, yet at the end I
get: 6.1G total
1-Have you ever manually added content to, or removed content from, /usr/ (other than /usr/local/), including with a backup/restore program (not package any manager)?
No.
2-Is your / filesystem type BTRFS?
No, but I was trying to format a flash drive, and that somehow started coming up afterwards. However, the flash drive in question is not connected, and I intend to format it as FAT-32, so I can use it on other systems.
3-How many installed kernels and initrds do you have?
2 each: initrd.img 27.5 mb initrd.img.old 26.4 mb vmlinuz 2.9 mb vmlinuz.old 2.7 mb
4-Do you have many optional font packages installed?
I do have lots of fonts installed, practically everything available. But I've always done that (since 2006 when I started running Linux), because I work with text and layout.
5-Asking on debian-user list may draw a more helpful response.
If answer to 1 is yes, suspect possible broken hard links.
Even though we both use 18G / filesystems, mine has only 444M in /usr/lib/ and 1.3G in /usr/share/. I have 5 installed kernels, and EXT4 /. # df / Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/md2 18011336 7691316 9382044 46% /
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1) partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
Bill
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
[...] About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1) partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
I would suggest you make a clean installation.
nik
On Monday 19 March 2018 13:06:55 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
[...] About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1) partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
I would suggest you make a clean installation.
nik
And I do intend to reinstall, and make the change to Devuan. But I did a reinstallation before when I had this same problem, and it keeps coming back. So I would like to resolve this issue before I move on to a Devuan installation.
Bill
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
On Monday 19 March 2018 13:06:55 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
[...] About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1) partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
I would suggest you make a clean installation.
nik
And I do intend to reinstall, and make the change to Devuan. But I did a reinstallation before when I had this same problem, and it keeps coming back. So I would like to resolve this issue before I move on to a Devuan installation.
The last guy I had seen with a simillar problem of "vanishing free space" was a human rights activist. He got a "lawful" trojan that took screenshots about every second and stored them in a "hidden" folder.
Nik
On Monday 19 March 2018 13:55:28 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
On Monday 19 March 2018 13:06:55 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
[...] About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1) partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
I would suggest you make a clean installation.
nik
And I do intend to reinstall, and make the change to Devuan. But I did a reinstallation before when I had this same problem, and it keeps coming back. So I would like to resolve this issue before I move on to a Devuan installation.
The last guy I had seen with a simillar problem of "vanishing free space" was a human rights activist. He got a "lawful" trojan that took screenshots about every second and stored them in a "hidden" folder.
Nik
Yeah, I've been worried about something like that for years now. That's why I moved to SF from the Midwest. I've been working on a project that it seems certain people "out there" don't like. And also among my friends I keep too many friends of dark complexion, foreign origin, or the wrong religion.
These days, one can't be "too paranoid"; and I expect the Thought Police to kick in my door at any moment. If that happens, it just proves that they are more paranoid than I am. I mostly read ancient literature, and spend my life deep in the past.
Oh well, you can't please everybody!
Bill
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 15:58 (UTC-0400):
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1) partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
What do you get from
du -sch /var/log/jou*
???
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 12:58:11 -0700 William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1) partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
I may have missed that but it seems no one have asked it in the thread - did you reboot you system during this time or is it a continuous uptime?
On Monday 19 March 2018 17:59:03 Nick Koretsky wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 12:58:11 -0700
William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1) partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
I may have missed that but it seems no one have asked it in the thread - did you reboot you system during this time or is it a continuous uptime?
Yes, I did reboot. I probably was rebooting my system every few days, just because my Firefox seems to be interfering with my network connection. And while I was learning the differences in a Debian system (in contrast to Ubuntu), I also rebooted constantly, because I was constantly messing up my system. For the past few months, though, my system has been fairly stable, and I haven't been downloading and installing new packages.
Right now the problems are: 1) my vanishing partition, 2) why Firefox messes up my network connection, and 3) minor bugs.
Nowadays I might go a week or two without rebooting, unless I end up with no space left on my root partition.
Bill
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:28:24 -0700 William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1) partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
I may have missed that but it seems no one have asked it in the thread - did you reboot you system during this time or is it a continuous uptime?
Yes, I did reboot. I probably was rebooting my system every few days, just because my Firefox seems to be interfering with my network connection. And while I was learning the differences in a Debian system (in contrast to Ubuntu), I also rebooted constantly, because I was constantly messing up my system. For the past few months, though, my system has been fairly stable, and I haven't been downloading and installing new packages.
Right now the problems are: 1) my vanishing partition, 2) why Firefox messes up my network connection, and 3) minor bugs.
Nowadays I might go a week or two without rebooting, unless I end up with no space left on my root partition.
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You see one of a possible reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some daemon misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
On Monday 19 March 2018 19:42:36 Nick Koretsky wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:28:24 -0700
William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1) partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
I may have missed that but it seems no one have asked it in the thread
- did you reboot you system during this time or is it a continuous
uptime?
Yes, I did reboot. I probably was rebooting my system every few days, just because my Firefox seems to be interfering with my network connection. And while I was learning the differences in a Debian system (in contrast to Ubuntu), I also rebooted constantly, because I was constantly messing up my system. For the past few months, though, my system has been fairly stable, and I haven't been downloading and installing new packages.
Right now the problems are: 1) my vanishing partition, 2) why Firefox messes up my network connection, and 3) minor bugs.
Nowadays I might go a week or two without rebooting, unless I end up with no space left on my root partition.
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You see one of a possible reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some daemon misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence one reason for rebooting, when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping issue of space disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time.
Bill
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 20:00 (UTC-0700):
Nick Koretsky wrote:
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You see one of a possible reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some daemon misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence one reason for rebooting, when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping issue of space disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time.
Maybe a look at /etc/fstab and output from mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|tmpfs|^sys|on /dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var" | sort would help us help you.
On Monday 19 March 2018 20:11:24 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 20:00 (UTC-0700):
Nick Koretsky wrote:
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You see one of a possible reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some daemon misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence one reason for rebooting, when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping issue of space disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time.
Maybe a look at /etc/fstab and output from mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|tmpfs|^sys|on /dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var" | sort would help us help you.
Yes, and I do appreciate all the help, and thanks for your patience.
mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|tmpfs|^sys|on /dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var" /dev/sda1 on / type ext2 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro) /dev/sdc1 on /media/<sdc1> type ext3 (rw,relatime,data=ordered) /dev/sdd1 on /media/<sdd1> type ext3 (rw,relatime,data=ordered) /dev/sdb1 on /media/<sdb1> type ext3 (rw,relatime,data=ordered) /dev/sda3 on /home type ext3 (rw,relatime,data=ordered) gvfsd-fuse on /run/user/1000/gvfs type fuse.gvfsd-fuse (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=1000,group_id=1000) /dev/sdf1 on /media/<USER>/4b4696d9-05d4-423f-acfa-707f7148f245 type ext3 (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,data=ordered,uhelper=udisks2) /dev/sdg1 on /media/<USER>/30A3-239E type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,noatime,uid=1000,gid=1000,fmask=0022,dmask=0077,codepage=437,iocharset=utf8,shortname=lower,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro,uhelper=udisks2)
(Note: Changed user name, and names of mount points, for security reasons.)
I would just like to resolve this issue before I move on to resizing my partition, and installing Devuan. If this is something bigger than just temporary files (and it seems to me that it is), then creating a bigger root partition will not solve my problems.
Like I mentioned before, I had about 2.2 gb of free space on that partition about a month ago, then it gradually shrank down to 165 mb. Something is not right there, I feel.
Bill
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 20:33 (UTC-0700):
mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|tmpfs|^sys|on /dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var" /dev/sda1 on / type ext2 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro)
How did this non-journaled / filesystem happen? Just go ahead and do your reinstallation, but be sure to format / EXT3 or EXT4, so you have journaling to assist in avoiding corruption in case of crashing or exhausting freespace. Make a note of freespace/consumed space as soon as you finish installation, then again after getting all your optional fonts installed, so you know how much space was consumed initially and then when ready to work.
What is it you are running now, Jessie? I don't think I saw you mention it in this thread. What CPU, chipset and gfxchip (how old is it all)? Why 32-bit? How much RAM?
On Monday 19 March 2018 21:03:17 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 20:33 (UTC-0700):
mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|tmpfs|^sys|on /dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var" /dev/sda1 on / type ext2 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro)
How did this non-journaled / filesystem happen? Just go ahead and do your reinstallation, but be sure to format / EXT3 or EXT4, so you have journaling to assist in avoiding corruption in case of crashing or exhausting freespace. Make a note of freespace/consumed space as soon as you finish installation, then again after getting all your optional fonts installed, so you know how much space was consumed initially and then when ready to work.
What is it you are running now, Jessie? I don't think I saw you mention it in this thread. What CPU, chipset and gfxchip (how old is it all)? Why 32-bit? How much RAM?
Yes, running Debian Jessie 8.10 or whatever is the most recent update. I was wondering about how to format root. I am used to ext2 for root partition from older Ubuntu versions, but I see everybody using ext3 or ext4 now, so this might be part of the problem.
It is 32-bit because I installed a new motherboard, and that is all that was available for cheap. I've always run 64-bit before.
Any quick commands to find out CPU, chipset and gfxchip? And yes, some of it is old (I did say it's a Frankenstein), but my motherboard is pretty new.
Bill
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 21:18 (UTC-0700):
Yes, running Debian Jessie 8.10 or whatever is the most recent update. I was wondering about how to format root. I am used to ext2 for root partition from older Ubuntu versions, but I see everybody using ext3 or ext4 now, so this might be part of the problem.
Formatting / is usually a default option in any Linux installer, but they tend to format the same type, which in your case is not desirable. Just be sure to specify / get formatted and /home not.
It is 32-bit because I installed a new motherboard, and that is all that was available for cheap. I've always run 64-bit before.
Any quick commands to find out CPU, chipset and gfxchip? And yes, some of it is old (I did say it's a Frankenstein), but my motherboard is pretty new.
lspci
or
inxi -v4
should do well enough.
cat /proc/cpuinfo
can be misleading to the uninitiated, but does report whether limited to 32-bit or not.
On Monday 19 March 2018 21:37:42 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 21:18 (UTC-0700):
Yes, running Debian Jessie 8.10 or whatever is the most recent update. I was wondering about how to format root. I am used to ext2 for root partition from older Ubuntu versions, but I see everybody using ext3 or ext4 now, so this might be part of the problem.
Formatting / is usually a default option in any Linux installer, but they tend to format the same type, which in your case is not desirable. Just be sure to specify / get formatted and /home not.
It is 32-bit because I installed a new motherboard, and that is all that was available for cheap. I've always run 64-bit before.
Any quick commands to find out CPU, chipset and gfxchip? And yes, some of it is old (I did say it's a Frankenstein), but my motherboard is pretty new.
lspci
# lspci 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 82945G/GZ/P/PL Memory Controller Hub (rev 02) 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02) 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family High Definition Audio Controller (rev 01) 00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family PCI Express Port 1 (rev 01) 00:1d.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB UHCI Controller #1 (rev 01) 00:1d.1 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB UHCI Controller #2 (rev 01) 00:1d.2 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB UHCI Controller #3 (rev 01) 00:1d.3 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB UHCI Controller #4 (rev 01) 00:1d.7 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB2 EHCI Controller (rev 01) 00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev e1) 00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801GB/GR (ICH7 Family) LPC Interface Bridge (rev 01) 00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) IDE Controller (rev 01) 00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family SATA Controller [IDE mode] (rev 01) 00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family SMBus Controller (rev 01) 02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Qualcomm Atheros Attansic L1 Gigabit Ethernet (rev b0)
or
inxi -v4
# inxi -v4 System: Host: debian Kernel: 3.16.0-5-686-pae i686 (32 bit gcc: 4.8.4) Desktop: N/A Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 8 Machine: Mobo: ASUSTeK model: P5GC-VM v: Rev x.xx serial: MS1C79B00G03073 Bios: American Megatrends v: 0407 date: 09/22/2008 CPU: Dual core Intel Pentium Dual E2200 (-MCP-) cache: 1024 KB flags: (lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 ssse3) bmips: 8800 Clock Speeds: 1: 2200 MHz 2: 2200 MHz Graphics: Card: Intel 82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics Controller bus-ID: 00:02.0 Display Server: X.org 1.16.4 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) tty size: 131x31 Advanced Data: N/A for root Network: Card-1: Qualcomm Atheros Attansic L1 Gigabit Ethernet driver: atl1 v: 2.1.3 bus-ID: 02:00.0 IF: eth0 state: down mac: 00:1d:60:7f:8e:50 Card-2: ZyDAS ZD1211B 802.11g driver: zd1211rw v: 1.0 usb-ID: 005-004 IF: wlan0 state: up mac: 00:02:72:1b:a5:2d Drives: HDD Total Size: 7109.6GB (83.5% used) ID-1: /dev/sdb model: WDC_WD15EADS size: 1500.3GB temp: 44C ID-2: /dev/sdd model: WDC_WD20EADS size: 2000.4GB temp: 44C ID-3: /dev/sda model: HTS541010G9SA00 size: 100.0GB temp: 32C ID-4: /dev/sdc model: ST31500341AS size: 1500.3GB temp: 32C ID-5: USB /dev/sde model: 10EAVS_External size: 1000.2GB temp: 0C ID-6: USB /dev/sdf model: 10EAVS_External size: 1000.2GB temp: 0C ID-7: USB /dev/sdg model: COBY_MP3_Player size: 8.1GB temp: 0C Partition: ID-1: / size: 17G used: 16G (100%) fs: ext2 dev: /dev/sda1 ID-2: /home size: 72G used: 27G (40%) fs: ext3 dev: /dev/sda3 ID-3: swap-1 size: 4.00GB used: 3.40GB (85%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda2 Info: Processes: 374 Uptime: 14:57 Memory: 1390.6/2015.1MB Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 4.9.2 Client: Shell (bash 4.3.301) inxi: 2.1.28
I only have 2 gb of RAM. I have extra memory sticks, but they are taken from my old 64-bit system. In another few months, I hope to upgrade the memory, when I can afford it, and to buy an external hard drive (at least 2-3 TB), so that I can transfer files to that, and gradually clean up excess, make everything more secure, etc. But for now, this is what I have to work with.
cat /proc/cpuinfo
# cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 15 model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz stepping : 13 microcode : 0xa4 cpu MHz : 2200.000 cache size : 1024 KB physical id : 0 siblings : 2 core id : 0 cpu cores : 2 apicid : 0 initial apicid : 0 fdiv_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 10 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts aperfmperf pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm lahf_lm dtherm bogomips : 4400.45 clflush size : 64 cache_alignment : 64 address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual power management:
processor : 1 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 15 model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz stepping : 13 microcode : 0xa1 cpu MHz : 2200.000 cache size : 1024 KB physical id : 0 siblings : 2 core id : 1 cpu cores : 2 apicid : 1 initial apicid : 1 fdiv_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 10 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts aperfmperf pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm lahf_lm dtherm bogomips : 4400.45 clflush size : 64 cache_alignment : 64 address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual power management:
can be misleading to the uninitiated, but does report whether limited to 32-bit or not.
I don't see anything unusual here, but maybe others are better able to decipher the information.
Bill
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 22:03 (UTC-0700):
Felix Miata wrote:
...
inxi -v4
# inxi -v4
You missed my redo
inxi -v4 -m
which details RAM slots and type.
model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz clflush size : 64 cache_alignment : 64 address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
Your hardware supports 64 bit. It's a close match to 3 of my own PCs, rather old, but certainly very usable with TDE and 64-bit OS.
On Monday 19 March 2018 22:33:10 Felix Miata wrote:
# inxi -v4
You missed my redo
> inxi -v4 -m
which details RAM slots and type.> inxi -v4 -m
model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz clflush size : 64 cache_alignment : 64 address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
Your hardware supports 64 bit. It's a close match to 3 of my own PCs, rather old, but certainly very usable with TDE and 64-bit OS.
Maybe so, but when I tried to install 64-bit, it rejected the packages as the wrong architecture, and I had a techie friend here confirm that it was strictly 32-bit. Otherwise, I would use the memory sticks that I have sitting right here, which would give me (I think) 6 gb of RAM.
# inxi -v4 -m
System: Host: debian Kernel: 3.16.0-5-686-pae i686 (32 bit gcc: 4.8.4) Desktop: N/A Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 8 Machine: Mobo: ASUSTeK model: P5GC-VM v: Rev x.xx serial: MS1C79B00G03073 Bios: American Megatrends v: 0407 date: 09/22/2008 CPU: Dual core Intel Pentium Dual E2200 (-MCP-) cache: 1024 KB flags: (lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 ssse3) bmips: 8800 Clock Speeds: 1: 2200 MHz 2: 2200 MHz Memory: Placeholder: Feature not yet developed Graphics: Card: Intel 82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics Controller bus-ID: 00:02.0 Display Server: X.org 1.16.4 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) tty size: 131x31 Advanced Data: N/A for root Network: Card-1: Qualcomm Atheros Attansic L1 Gigabit Ethernet driver: atl1 v: 2.1.3 bus-ID: 02:00.0 IF: eth0 state: down mac: 00:1d:60:7f:8e:50 Card-2: ZyDAS ZD1211B 802.11g driver: zd1211rw v: 1.0 usb-ID: 005-004 IF: wlan0 state: up mac: 00:02:72:0c:e4:14 Drives: HDD Total Size: 7109.6GB (83.5% used) ID-1: /dev/sdb model: WDC_WD15EADS size: 1500.3GB temp: 44C ID-2: /dev/sdd model: WDC_WD20EADS size: 2000.4GB temp: 44C ID-3: /dev/sda model: HTS541010G9SA00 size: 100.0GB temp: 29C ID-4: /dev/sdc model: ST31500341AS size: 1500.3GB temp: 32C ID-5: USB /dev/sde model: 10EAVS_External size: 1000.2GB temp: 0C ID-6: USB /dev/sdf model: 10EAVS_External size: 1000.2GB temp: 0C ID-7: USB /dev/sdg model: COBY_MP3_Player size: 8.1GB temp: 0C Partition: ID-1: / size: 17G used: 16G (100%) fs: ext2 dev: /dev/sda1 ID-2: /home size: 72G used: 27G (40%) fs: ext3 dev: /dev/sda3 ID-3: swap-1 size: 4.00GB used: 3.44GB (86%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda2 Info: Processes: 374 Uptime: 16:08 Memory: 1437.3/2015.1MB Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 4.9.2 Client: Shell (bash 4.3.301) inxi: 2.1.28
Bill
model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz clflush size : 64 cache_alignment : 64 address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
That CPU is clearly 64-bit: https://ark.intel.com/products/33925/Intel-Pentium-Processor-E2200-1M-Cache-...
I don't know what could have gone wrong to make an installer think it wasn't 64-bit capable. I don't think there is such a thing as a socket LGA775 motherboard that doesn't support 64-bit CPUs. It may even be that there is no such thing as a 32-bit CPU to fit a socket LGA775.
Could it be that the HD had a 32-bit OS installed and was trying to install in upgrade mode? That might explain why the / filesystem was EXT2, and why you wound up with / filesystems routinely losing space.
Maybe that model motherboard was released with a BIOS too old to properly support the E2200 CPU, and needs a BIOS update. You can find the installed BIOS version via BIOS setup, or from the POST screen, or use dmidecode.
Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard or need "techie" help. Fetch and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD I previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
Felix Miata wrote:
Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard or need "techie" help. Fetch and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD I previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
Felix, I didn't follow up this in detail, but why would one use DVD or CD today, when there is USB stick that cost nothing?! We are in 21st century
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 00:36:34 deloptes wrote:
Felix Miata wrote:
Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard or need "techie" help. Fetch and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD I previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
Felix, I didn't follow up this in detail, but why would one use DVD or CD today, when there is USB stick that cost nothing?! We are in 21st century
I can manage using dd to copy the image to a flash drive; I've done that before. But I do have other uses for my available flash drives, although at present I could use it as a one-time fix.
Also, it isn't so important to me to be on the cutting edge of everything. I just want to get my computer rebuilt, running and stable. And I have several stacks of brand-new, unused 100 CDs and 100 DVDs, but only a few flash drives. In any case, this is not so important, and I can manage these details.
All I want is to track down the source of this issue, resolve it, then resize my root partition and change over to Devuan. And I can change to 64-bit later, as well, if that will work. My most pressing problem at the moment is why I am losing space on my root partition. Speaking of which: after a couple more hours (during most of which I have been offline, as I was attending to stuff in the real world), I am now down to 60.3 mb of free space. If you have followed these threads, I was at something like 165 mb a few hours ago, and 200+ mb a day or so ago.
Bill
Bill
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William Morder wrote:
All I want is to track down the source of this issue, resolve it, then resize my root partition and change over to Devuan. And I can change to 64-bit later, as well, if that will work. My most pressing problem at the moment is why I am losing space on my root partition. Speaking of which: after a couple more hours (during most of which I have been offline, as I was attending to stuff in the real world), I am now down to 60.3 mb of free space. If you have followed these threads, I was at something like 165 mb a few hours ago, and 200+ mb a day or so ago.
have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
regards
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 11:29:17 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
All I want is to track down the source of this issue, resolve it, then resize my root partition and change over to Devuan. And I can change to 64-bit later, as well, if that will work. My most pressing problem at the moment is why I am losing space on my root partition. Speaking of which: after a couple more hours (during most of which I have been offline, as I was attending to stuff in the real world), I am now down to 60.3 mb of free space. If you have followed these threads, I was at something like 165 mb a few hours ago, and 200+ mb a day or so ago.
have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
regards
Well, the file itself is 170.8 kb. As to the content, there are a lot of items, but it all seems to be ordinary processes. Should I be looking for something in particular?
Bill
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On Tuesday 20 March 2018 05:46:48 pm William Morder wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 11:29:17 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
All I want is to track down the source of this issue, resolve it, then resize my root partition and change over to Devuan. And I can change to 64-bit later, as well, if that will work. My most pressing problem at the moment is why I am losing space on my root partition. Speaking of which: after a couple more hours (during most of which I have been offline, as I was attending to stuff in the real world), I am now down to 60.3 mb of free space. If you have followed these threads, I was at something like 165 mb a few hours ago, and 200+ mb a day or so ago.
have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
regards
Well, the file itself is 170.8 kb. As to the content, there are a lot of items, but it all seems to be ordinary processes. Should I be looking for something in particular?
Bill
Re-install now, burning to many brain cells . The free space is way to small, my Debian occupied space in root is 16 gb out of 20gb. I thought it was a waste when I set this box up.
I hestitate to offer more info..what about swap? \greg
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 21:36:43 Greg Madden wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 05:46:48 pm William Morder wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 11:29:17 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
All I want is to track down the source of this issue, resolve it, then resize my root partition and change over to Devuan. And I can change to 64-bit later, as well, if that will work. My most pressing problem at the moment is why I am losing space on my root partition. Speaking of which: after a couple more hours (during most of which I have been offline, as I was attending to stuff in the real world), I am now down to 60.3 mb of free space. If you have followed these threads, I was at something like 165 mb a few hours ago, and 200+ mb a day or so ago.
have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
regards
Well, the file itself is 170.8 kb. As to the content, there are a lot of items, but it all seems to be ordinary processes. Should I be looking for something in particular?
Bill
Re-install now, burning to many brain cells . The free space is way to small, my Debian occupied space in root is 16 gb out of 20gb. I thought it was a waste when I set this box up.
I hestitate to offer more info..what about swap? \greg
Yes, I am already there in spirit. I am tired, and too much time is wasted. Thanks for everybody's patience. Even though I haven't yet resolved the issue, I did pick up a lot of useful tips and commands, etc.
Right now I want to find a partition manager that I already have on CD somewhere, or try to burn a new one. (It seems that k3b is failing to burn discs. I might try burning a disc by command-line.) First I want to resize my root partition, then make the switch to Devuan; although I might reinstall Debian first, for sake of continuity.
By the way, now kmail crashes whenever I try to use keyboard shortcuts to reply to emails. I have to choose reply from the menu instead.
On reboot, some space is reclaimed: free space moved back up to 140+ mb; and now I am at 123 mb. The general tendency, however, is a steady and incremental loss of space.
I suppose that I can still try to resolve this issue after reinstallation.
Bill
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On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 06:46:48PM -0700, William Morder wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 11:29:17 deloptes wrote:
[...]
have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
I also suggested that a couple of days ago. It is important to check the root user's home directory as well as your standard home directory.
Well, the file itself is 170.8 kb. As to the content, there are a lot of items, but it all seems to be ordinary processes. Should I be looking for something in particular?
If its only 170 kB, then it's not the problem you're looking for. The scenario I was referring to is when you get thousands of X errors a second, and the .xsession-errors file explodes out to hundreds of megabytes or gigabytes in size.
Here's a thought... if you disconnect the internet, does the root partition stop filling up? Give it, say, 10 minutes and see if it stops growing, and then starts again when you turn the connection back on.
Does your ISP offer usage stats? If so, are they unusual?
My thinking is to discover whether or not this unusual disk usage is purely internal, or whether it has something to do with the internet access: either data being downloaded, or uploaded, or both.
Not necessarily something malicious. Maybe you've got a rogue (misconfigured) program downloading updates over and over and over again, thousands of times.
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 21:44:47 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 06:46:48PM -0700, William Morder wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 11:29:17 deloptes wrote:
[...]
have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
I also suggested that a couple of days ago. It is important to check the root user's home directory as well as your standard home directory.
Well, the file itself is 170.8 kb. As to the content, there are a lot of items, but it all seems to be ordinary processes. Should I be looking for something in particular?
If its only 170 kB, then it's not the problem you're looking for. The scenario I was referring to is when you get thousands of X errors a second, and the .xsession-errors file explodes out to hundreds of megabytes or gigabytes in size.
Here's a thought... if you disconnect the internet, does the root partition stop filling up? Give it, say, 10 minutes and see if it stops growing, and then starts again when you turn the connection back on.
Sometimes it keeps filling up. I tend to disconnect from the Internet when I don't need the connection for anything, due to issues with the network itself.
Does your ISP offer usage stats? If so, are they unusual?
The Internet is provided by my apartment building, so our ISP offers nothing; the network is also pretty insecure (the password could be cracked by a child in about 15 minutes), and we constantly have issues with the network. The access point is in the hallway outside my door, yet iwconfig shows that my signal level is hardly ever above 50/100 for signal level.
My thinking is to discover whether or not this unusual disk usage is purely internal, or whether it has something to do with the internet access: either data being downloaded, or uploaded, or both.
Not necessarily something malicious. Maybe you've got a rogue (misconfigured) program downloading updates over and over and over again, thousands of times.
Only clamav tends to download updates a lot, and slows down everything.
Anyway, I think I'm just going to surrender to necessity and reinstall; but not before I resize my root partition.
Bill
I remember once, there was a strange file It was supposed to be terabytes.... in a disk of gigabytes It was some strange error of the file system....
If you just reformat clean the root partition The problem persist? (not convert)
deloptes composed on 2018-03-20 08:36 (UTC+0100):
Felix Miata wrote:
Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard or need "techie" help. Fetch and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD I previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
Felix, I didn't follow up this in detail, but why would one use DVD or CD today, when there is USB stick that cost nothing?! We are in 21st century
Where are there sticks that cost nothing in any quantity?
OM are *far* cheaper than any sticks I ever got, especially on a size actually needed and/or fitting basis, e.g. 670M for CD, 4G for DVD; and cheap enough to use once and discard.
OM have room to write legibly on them what they contain
OM are uniform size and shape, much easier to catalog and inventory than hundreds of different size and shape sticks.
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 01:13:27 Felix Miata wrote:
deloptes composed on 2018-03-20 08:36 (UTC+0100):
Felix Miata wrote:
Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard or need "techie" help. Fetch and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD I previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
Felix, I didn't follow up this in detail, but why would one use DVD or CD today, when there is USB stick that cost nothing?! We are in 21st century
Where are there sticks that cost nothing in any quantity?
OM are *far* cheaper than any sticks I ever got, especially on a size actually needed and/or fitting basis, e.g. 670M for CD, 4G for DVD; and cheap enough to use once and discard.
OM have room to write legibly on them what they contain
OM are uniform size and shape, much easier to catalog and inventory than hundreds of different size and shape sticks.
I have memory sticks sitting right here beside me; I extracted them from my old desktop after it got fried in a power surge. What I think our other participant means is that (assuming one has a flash drive that's empty), it costs nothing to burn the image to that drive, use it once for its intended purpose, then erase the image; thus not wasting any CDs or DVDs.
As for the relative expense or cheapness of other memory sticks, right now I have to scrape together my spare change to buy toilet paper. (No, I am not joking.) In another few month, I expect that I will get my finances a little more under control, but at present buying anything at all is a luxury.
For future reference, though, I will file away this information.
Bill
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 00:12:58 Felix Miata wrote:
model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz clflush size : 64 cache_alignment : 64 address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
That CPU is clearly 64-bit: https://ark.intel.com/products/33925/Intel-Pentium-Processor-E2200-1M-Cache -2_20-GHz-800-MHz-FSB
I don't know what could have gone wrong to make an installer think it wasn't 64-bit capable. I don't think there is such a thing as a socket LGA775 motherboard that doesn't support 64-bit CPUs. It may even be that there is no such thing as a 32-bit CPU to fit a socket LGA775.
Curiouser and curiouser. I feel like I have gone down the rabbit hole.
Could it be that the HD had a 32-bit OS installed and was trying to install in upgrade mode? That might explain why the / filesystem was EXT2, and why you wound up with / filesystems routinely losing space.
No, I previously had installed 64-bit Kubuntu (several versions) on that hard drive; and the other hard drives were all used with that system, and other systems, always 64-bit. This is the first time, in fact, that I have ever run 32-bit, and didn't really want it.
The hard drives were all used previously in my 64-bit Systemax no OS desktop computer. I did really want 64-bit, but I tried the memory sticks, and tried 64-bit packages, all to no avail. Then my techie guy here told me, No, that I had 32-bit.
Maybe that model motherboard was released with a BIOS too old to properly support the E2200 CPU, and needs a BIOS update. You can find the installed BIOS version via BIOS setup, or from the POST screen, or use dmidecode.
Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard or need "techie" help. Fetch and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD I previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
One thing at a time ...
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 23:12 (UTC-0700):
Bios: American Megatrends v: 0407 date: 09/22/2008
William Morder composed on 2018-03-20 00:42 (UTC-0700):
Felix Miata wrote:
Curiouser and curiouser. I feel like I have gone down the rabbit hole.
Sounds like it to me.
Maybe that model motherboard was released with a BIOS too old to properly support the E2200 CPU, and needs a BIOS update. You can find the installed BIOS version via BIOS setup, or from the POST screen, or use dmidecode.
# dmidecode bios-release-date # dmidecode bios-version
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P5GCVM/HelpDesk_BIOS/ shows latest is v408 dated 2010-06-08, almost 2 years newer than yours.
Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard or need "techie" help. Fetch and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD I previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
One thing at a time ...
Jumping out of one hole into another isn't an answer. Exactly what were you trying to install when your techie determined it didn't support 64-bit?
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 01:52:03 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 23:12 (UTC-0700):
Bios: American Megatrends v: 0407 date: 09/22/2008
William Morder composed on 2018-03-20 00:42 (UTC-0700):
Felix Miata wrote:
Curiouser and curiouser. I feel like I have gone down the rabbit hole.
Sounds like it to me.
Maybe that model motherboard was released with a BIOS too old to properly support the E2200 CPU, and needs a BIOS update. You can find the installed BIOS version via BIOS setup, or from the POST screen, or use dmidecode.
# dmidecode bios-release-date # dmidecode bios-version
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P5GCVM/HelpDesk_BIOS/ shows latest is v408 dated 2010-06-08, almost 2 years newer than yours.
Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard or need "techie" help. Fetch and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD I previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
One thing at a time ...
Jumping out of one hole into another isn't an answer. Exactly what were you trying to install when your techie determined it didn't support 64-bit?
He lives right here in my apartment building, although he is more reclusive than J.D. Salinger, and only steps outside his door when there is a full moon. At the time, we were working on this machine together. Of course, it is yet possible that he could also be wrong here, but over all he has been very reliable for what he knows; it's just that he seldom ventures farther than the ice machine in our lobby. (For what it's worth, he finds pretty regular work as a free-lance consultant, and I get lots of freebies.)
Be that as it may, when I did try to install 64-bit packages, and to use the Debian 64-bit live DVD, my machine rejected it as the wrong architecture. So I am a little confused, since I see the details that you point out, yet it doesn't explain why my machine will not accept 64-bit installation discs or software packages.
Bill
what if you gave in to conformity and installed ubuntu?
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 03:59:11 wofgdkncxojef@gmail.com wrote:
what if you gave in to conformity and installed ubuntu?
Been there, done that. My computer ran like crap, kept doing things I didn't want and couldn't control. I ran different versions of Ubuntu or Kubuntu from 2006 until last year, and liking it less and less as I went along.
For the most part, my computer is running great right now. There is this one big problem, and the rest are just annoyances and bugs.
Bill
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On Tuesday 20 March 2018 13:05:15 William Morder wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 03:59:11 wofgdkncxojef@gmail.com wrote:
what if you gave in to conformity and installed ubuntu?
Been there, done that. My computer ran like crap, kept doing things I didn't want and couldn't control. I ran different versions of Ubuntu or Kubuntu from 2006 until last year, and liking it less and less as I went along.
For the most part, my computer is running great right now. There is this one big problem, and the rest are just annoyances and bugs.
Bill
By ubuntu, i don't mean with unity/gnome with trinity....
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 22:08:58 wofgdkncxojef@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 13:05:15 William Morder wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 03:59:11 wofgdkncxojef@gmail.com wrote:
what if you gave in to conformity and installed ubuntu?
Been there, done that. My computer ran like crap, kept doing things I didn't want and couldn't control. I ran different versions of Ubuntu or Kubuntu from 2006 until last year, and liking it less and less as I went along.
From Kubuntu 10.04 onwards, I kept trying to get TDE to work with Kubuntu, or with any of the 'buntus. I always ended up with problems that made the computer unusable. Then last year my motherboard got fried by a power surge, so I determined to start over from scratch, and install some kind of GNU/Linux, and settled on Debian as the most stable, with the most forks and variants, and largest community.
For the most part, my computer is running great right now. There is this one big problem, and the rest are just annoyances and bugs.
Bill
By ubuntu, i don't mean with unity/gnome
Don't even speak those names! I break out in hives just thinking about them.
with trinity....
Again, been there, done that. I am really liking Debian in general (except for systemd), and cannot imagine going back to Ubuntu or Kubuntu, not even with TDE. I only want to make the transition to Devuan, which seems to stick to the original principles of Debian more than Debian nowadays.
Only this issue has me worried. Otherwise, there are a lot of little bugs, but I gradually track them down and resolve them.
Nice thing about Linux (regardless one's preference for what kind): it just gets better and better over time, as one learns how to resolve problems; whereas with the rotten Apple or Windoze, things start off good, and the machine runs fast, then it's all downhill from there.
Bill
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William Morder wrote:
From Kubuntu 10.04 onwards, I kept trying to get TDE to work with Kubuntu, or with any of the 'buntus. I always ended up with problems that made the computer unusable. Then last year my motherboard got fried by a power surge, so I determined to start over from scratch, and install some kind of GNU/Linux, and settled on Debian as the most stable, with the most forks and variants, and largest community.
Usually you do clean minimal install of debian, add the trinity sources to source.list and install trinity desktop (look at the installation guide)
As of systemd, I followed recommendations given on the debian-user list and you need only to install sysv-rc sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils AFAIR. Then automagicall init is used instead of systemd. I used to put init=/lib/sysvinit/init into /etc/default/grub, but on the last machine where I did the move, I skipped it and I still get init as process #1. I have been using this for more than an year now and don't see why one should go for devuan.
For normal average use root and /opt/trinity are about 10G, so if you give 20G for root partition, should be sufficient.
regards
On Wednesday 21 March 2018 13:46:12 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
From Kubuntu 10.04 onwards, I kept trying to get TDE to work with Kubuntu, or with any of the 'buntus. I always ended up with problems that made the computer unusable. Then last year my motherboard got fried by a power surge, so I determined to start over from scratch, and install some kind of GNU/Linux, and settled on Debian as the most stable, with the most forks and variants, and largest community.
Usually you do clean minimal install of debian, add the trinity sources to source.list and install trinity desktop (look at the installation guide)
As of systemd, I followed recommendations given on the debian-user list and you need only to install sysv-rc sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils AFAIR. Then automagicall init is used instead of systemd. I used to put init=/lib/sysvinit/init into /etc/default/grub, but on the last machine where I did the move, I skipped it and I still get init as process #1. I have been using this for more than an year now and don't see why one should go for devuan.
For normal average use root and /opt/trinity are about 10G, so if you give 20G for root partition, should be sufficient.
regards
Yes, I believe somebody else mentioned something like this. I don't necessarily want Devuan versus Debian, I just want to get sysvinit back, and get rid of systemd. I already did some research in this, and believe I am about ready to make the transition. I backed up everything, etc.
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere that it describes how to do a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the resources of the bigger names. I realize that redesigning the site is a big job, but maybe a link (on the home page) to a site map would be a good place to start?
For myself, I always used either the Trinity installation discs, or more usually I would install one of the 'buntus, then use the guide for installing TDE; so when I moved to Debian, I followed the same guide. If there were a clearly marked place with instructions for minimal installation, I might have saved myself a lot of time. Again, I believe that a lot of potential Trinity users give up, because those who know already know, and they can only be found here on the mailing list. Those who don't know (I mean the total n00bs) don't know where to look, nor who to ask for help, and the questions discussed on the mailing list are probably over their heads.
On my root partition, however, I have other stuff installed in opt, such as Seamonkey and OpenOffice (don't like LibreOffice, as it messes up my documents). Also, other software that I have tried out (such as the Vivaldi browser) use the opt folder. (I don't currently use Vivaldi, but I like to try out different things, then get rid of them again if I don't like them.) So for my purposes, it's probably good to have a root partition that's larger than normal, just so I have some wiggle room. I don't really use the home partition for saving anything, anyway; everything there is moved to external drives as soon as possible.
Also, thanks to the person who recommended the slacko live iso (based on Slackware). It was very small (200+ mb), burned to a CD; also fast, and came with many more programs than one would have guessed for such a small live/installation disc. It also looked a little primitive or minimalistic, but then I value speed and efficiency more than looks. I might try it out when I do a dual-boot system.
Thanks for all the tips, both regarding my root partition, and also for the transition from Debian to Devuan, or at least away from systemd and back to sysvinit.
Bill
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William Morder composed on 2018-03-21 16:04 (UTC-0700):
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere that it describes how to do a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the resources of the bigger names.
We went through this here a month ago. Doing a minimal installation is specific to each Distro, not TDE, so "it" would have to be a bunch of pages, or a more complicated page few or no single people could make alone.
For Stretch, the cmdline options I use on http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::12201 that include string "install" will cause a truly minimal installation, to which you need to add Xorg from Debian, to have a working base from which to run TDE.
If Devuan's installer is Debian-based, likely the same options would be applicable. If not, Devuan's own docs, help forum and/or mailing list archive ought to address such need.
William Morder composed on 2018-03-21 16:04 (UTC-0700):
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere that it describes how to do a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the resources of the bigger names.
We went through this here a month ago. Doing a minimal installation is specific to each Distro, not TDE, so "it" would have to be a bunch of pages, or a more complicated page few or no single people could make alone.
For Stretch, the cmdline options I use on http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::12201 that include string "install" will cause a truly minimal installation, to which you need to add Xorg from Debian, to have a working base from which to run TDE.
If Devuan's installer is Debian-based, likely the same options would be applicable. If not, Devuan's own docs, help forum and/or mailing list archive ought to address such need.
Felix Miata composed on 2018-03-21 19:28 (UTC-0400):
William Morder composed on 2018-03-21 16:04 (UTC-0700):
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere that it describes how to do a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the resources of the bigger names.
We went through this here a month ago. Doing a minimal installation is specific to each Distro, not TDE, so "it" would have to be a bunch of pages, or a more complicated page few or no single people could make alone.
For Stretch, the cmdline options I use on http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::12201 that include string "install" will cause a truly minimal installation, to which you need to add Xorg from Debian, to have a working base from which to run TDE.
If Devuan's installer is Debian-based, likely the same options would be applicable. If not, Devuan's own docs, help forum and/or mailing list archive ought to address such need.
Both Debian-based, and provides howto for minimal install: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/jessie-minimal-install
Instead of following the --include=nano instruction @Debootstrap, I would do --include=mc, and have all its recommendeds at the outset.
Felix Miata composed on 2018-03-22 00:17 (UTC-0400):
Felix Miata composed on 2018-03-21 19:28 (UTC-0400):
William Morder composed on 2018-03-21 16:04 (UTC-0700):
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere that it describes how to do a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the resources of the bigger names.
We went through this here a month ago. Doing a minimal installation is specific to each Distro, not TDE, so "it" would have to be a bunch of pages, or a more complicated page few or no single people could make alone.
For Stretch, the cmdline options I use on http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::12201 that include string "install" will cause a truly minimal installation, to which you need to add Xorg from Debian, to have a working base from which to run TDE.
If Devuan's installer is Debian-based, likely the same options would be applicable. If not, Devuan's own docs, help forum and/or mailing list archive ought to address such need.
Both Debian-based, and provides howto for minimal install: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/jessie-minimal-install
Instead of following the --include=nano instruction @Debootstrap, I would do --include=mc, and have all its recommendeds at the outset.
I just installed Devuan 2beta from a NETINST cd, with basic TDE, onto a 5.6GB partition on an old AMD Sempron 64 with 2GB RAM. Current space consumed is 29% of /.
On Wednesday 21 March 2018 16:28:43 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-21 16:04 (UTC-0700):
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere that it describes how to do a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the resources of the bigger names.
We went through this here a month ago. Doing a minimal installation is specific to each Distro, not TDE, so "it" would have to be a bunch of pages, or a more complicated page few or no single people could make alone.
Yes, well ... I can do a minimal installation myself, if I choose, when I have an available Internet connection.
I am interested in seeing more people come to use Trinity, because I believe that that is the only way to get TDE accepted into the repositories for Debian, Ubuntu, etc. - that is, into the mainstream.
Otherwise, if you want to keep Trinity as a private club, open only to a few, then keep on doing what you are doing. If, on the other hand, you want to keep using Trinity into the foreseeable future (and not be forced to change to other DEs), then I believe it is in the interest of all of us to make these methods a little more accessible to the general public.
Maybe other people here are not aware that there is a widespread prejudice - or perhaps smear campaign - against TDE-Trinity "out there"? The notion is supposed to be that the KDE3 desktop was long ago discarded by the mainstream Linux community, and that any attempt to revive it as TDE is both absurd and pathetic: as though we were an Amish community of computer users; or perhaps, digitally-impaired, cranky old-timers. (Apologies to any Amish geeks or cranky old-timers out there who may be reading!)
By the way, if I can help, I am a willing volunteer. I am not complaining about TDE; I just don't want to be forced to return to some other, lesser desktop, merely due to lack of public interest.
Bill
For Stretch, the cmdline options I use on http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::12201 that include string "install" will cause a truly minimal installation, to which you need to add Xorg from Debian, to have a working base from which to run TDE.
If Devuan's installer is Debian-based, likely the same options would be applicable. If not, Devuan's own docs, help forum and/or mailing list archive ought to address such need.
William Morder wrote:
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere that it describes how to do a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the resources of the bigger names. I realize that redesigning the site is a big job, but maybe a link (on the home page) to a site map would be a good place to start?
installing the base system is not part of TDE. It is very simple, I usually pick up the debian network installation disk or usb image and when asked for system type I do not select anything except basic
there many online step by step guides - example https://www.pcsuggest.com/debian-minimal-install-guide/
For myself, I always used either the Trinity installation discs, or more usually I would install one of the 'buntus, then use the guide for installing TDE; so when I moved to Debian, I followed the same guide. If there were a clearly marked place with instructions for minimal installation, I might have saved myself a lot of time. Again, I believe that a lot of potential Trinity users give up, because those who know already know, and they can only be found here on the mailing list. Those who don't know (I mean the total n00bs) don't know where to look, nor who to ask for help, and the questions discussed on the mailing list are probably over their heads.
look at step 13 "Now select which components you want to install, choose only standard system utilities if you want a minimal install"
On my root partition, however, I have other stuff installed in opt, such as Seamonkey and OpenOffice (don't like LibreOffice, as it messes up my documents). Also, other software that I have tried out (such as the Vivaldi browser) use the opt folder. (I don't currently use Vivaldi, but I like to try out different things, then get rid of them again if I don't like them.) So for my purposes, it's probably good to have a root partition that's larger than normal, just so I have some wiggle room. I don't really use the home partition for saving anything, anyway; everything there is moved to external drives as soon as possible.
Backup that directory, when installing assign dedicated partition ( trinity requires about 1G, I would count with 2G for trinity) so based on your current size you can easily calculate the space.
If you have trinity already there, you can remove it (rm -rf ) after restoring from backup and before installing new trinity desktop.
On my desktop root is 20G with 6.7G used, opt is bigger with a lot of custom stuff, but as mentioned trinity would cope with anything above 2G very well
I put all of this on luks and LVM and now even installer can do it right.
regards
On Wednesday 21 March 2018 16:38:50 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere that it describes how to do a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the resources of the bigger names. I realize that redesigning the site is a big job, but maybe a link (on the home page) to a site map would be a good place to start?
installing the base system is not part of TDE. It is very simple, I usually pick up the debian network installation disk or usb image and when asked for system type I do not select anything except basic
there many online step by step guides - example https://www.pcsuggest.com/debian-minimal-install-guide/
For myself, I always used either the Trinity installation discs, or more usually I would install one of the 'buntus, then use the guide for installing TDE; so when I moved to Debian, I followed the same guide. If there were a clearly marked place with instructions for minimal installation, I might have saved myself a lot of time. Again, I believe that a lot of potential Trinity users give up, because those who know already know, and they can only be found here on the mailing list. Those who don't know (I mean the total n00bs) don't know where to look, nor who to ask for help, and the questions discussed on the mailing list are probably over their heads.
look at step 13 "Now select which components you want to install, choose only standard system utilities if you want a minimal install"
On my root partition, however, I have other stuff installed in opt, such as Seamonkey and OpenOffice (don't like LibreOffice, as it messes up my documents). Also, other software that I have tried out (such as the Vivaldi browser) use the opt folder. (I don't currently use Vivaldi, but I like to try out different things, then get rid of them again if I don't like them.) So for my purposes, it's probably good to have a root partition that's larger than normal, just so I have some wiggle room. I don't really use the home partition for saving anything, anyway; everything there is moved to external drives as soon as possible.
Backup that directory, when installing assign dedicated partition ( trinity requires about 1G, I would count with 2G for trinity) so based on your current size you can easily calculate the space.
If you have trinity already there, you can remove it (rm -rf ) after restoring from backup and before installing new trinity desktop.
On my desktop root is 20G with 6.7G used, opt is bigger with a lot of custom stuff, but as mentioned trinity would cope with anything above 2G very well
I put all of this on luks and LVM and now even installer can do it right.
regards
Does anybody here make /opt a separate partition? Since so many programs use it that are better not to run with admin privileges, it seems better not to put /opt in the root partition. But then I wonder if installations would go awry for those packages that use /opt. (Not only TDE, but also other programs, such as Seamonkey, OpenOffice, etc., use /opt for installation.)
Bill
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Am Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
[...] Does anybody here make /opt a separate partition? Since so many programs use it that are better not to run with admin privileges, it seems better not to put /opt in the root partition. But then I wonder if installations would go awry for those packages that use /opt. (Not only TDE, but also other programs, such as Seamonkey, OpenOffice, etc., use /opt for installation.)
beeing on the root-partition has nothing to do with admin privileges.
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
[...] Does anybody here make /opt a separate partition? Since so many programs use it that are better not to run with admin privileges, it seems better not to put /opt in the root partition. But then I wonder if installations would go awry for those packages that use /opt. (Not only TDE, but also other programs, such as Seamonkey, OpenOffice, etc., use /opt for installation.)
beeing on the root-partition has nothing to do with admin privileges.
+1
and I personally have my /opt on dedicated logical volume - it is easier to control or reinstall if needed, or backup etc.
On Thursday 22 March 2018 13:36:49 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
[...] Does anybody here make /opt a separate partition? Since so many programs use it that are better not to run with admin privileges, it seems better not to put /opt in the root partition. But then I wonder if installations would go awry for those packages that use /opt. (Not only TDE, but also other programs, such as Seamonkey, OpenOffice, etc., use /opt for installation.)
beeing on the root-partition has nothing to do with admin privileges.
There is also the problem that, on reinstallation, the /opt folder (and any configurations or modifications) will necessarily be overwritten. I would like to prevent /opt from being overwritten, just as I do with my /home folder.
Bill
William Morder composed on 2018-03-22 13:55 (UTC-0700):
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
beeing on the root-partition has nothing to do with admin privileges.
There is also the problem that, on reinstallation, the /opt folder (and any configurations or modifications) will necessarily be overwritten. I would like to prevent /opt from being overwritten, just as I do with my /home folder.
Put the things _you_ put in /opt/ instead in /usr/local/, make /usr/local/ a separate filesystem, and you needn't have that problem, unless maybe you're an AntiX user. The only things in /opt/ on my systems are things the package manager decides belong there, typically printer drivers, KDE3, or LO.
On Friday 23 March 2018 16:33:04 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-22 13:55 (UTC-0700):
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
beeing on the root-partition has nothing to do with admin privileges.
There is also the problem that, on reinstallation, the /opt folder (and any configurations or modifications) will necessarily be overwritten. I would like to prevent /opt from being overwritten, just as I do with my /home folder.
Put the things _you_ put in /opt/ instead in /usr/local/, make /usr/local/ a separate filesystem, and you needn't have that problem, unless maybe you're an AntiX user. The only things in /opt/ on my systems are things the package manager decides belong there, typically printer drivers, KDE3, or LO.
I don't choose to put anything there. When I install, the package manager installs these items in that folder. (Seamonkey used to be installed like other packages, but now it is separately maintained on SourceForge; and now it gets installed in /opt. Likewise OpenOffice, now that Apache maintains it separately, is installed there.)
My question is whether the package manager will put them there if I create a separate partition for /opt. In any case, little tweaks have got them running better.
Another question: Why are program files and folders for Icecat now installed in /usr/lib/icecat - instead of in /home/<USER>/.mozilla/icecat (similar to other Mozilla browsers)? I had to change permissions to get extensions to work, or even to install; but it's not the first place one looks for this stuff.
Bill
William Morder composed on 2018-03-23 21:04 (UTC-0700):
My question is whether the package manager will put them there if I create a separate partition for /opt. In any case, little tweaks have got them running better.
Config "tweaks" belong either in /etc/ or in ~. /opt/ shouldn't be touched manually any more than /usr/lib/ or /usr/bin/.
Whether or not /opt/ is a separate filesystem the package manager has no knowledge of, unless it's reading /etc/fstab, which I very seriously doubt.
William Morder wrote:
I don't choose to put anything there. When I install, the package manager installs these items in that folder. (Seamonkey used to be installed like other packages, but now it is separately maintained on SourceForge; and now it gets installed in /opt. Likewise OpenOffice, now that Apache maintains it separately, is installed there.)
I was thinking a while if I should answer this - I mean, start looking for answer yourself as I don't feel to be a babysitter or put questions forward if you search for an answer for lets say 30 minutes and can not find any usable. Of course everybody is free to ask or answer ... but I think you are asking too much without listening and this is the motivation to write this, because I told you to remove all that was not custom installed from /opt, but you talk too much and listen too little. This is pure chaos. Ask a definite question, complete the task and close the topic, after this open new topic.
From the length of the discussion I can conclude that the question was vague and it went off topic too much. Just close this question with "my vanishing root partition" and open another on how to proceed with /opt on new install
regards
On Saturday 24 March 2018 05:30:49 deloptes wrote:
I was thinking a while if I should answer this - I mean, start looking for answer yourself as I don't feel to be a babysitter or put questions forward if you search for an answer for lets say 30 minutes and can not find any usable. Of course everybody is free to ask or answer ... but I think you are asking too much without listening and this is the motivation to write this, because I told you to remove all that was not custom installed from /opt, but you talk too much and listen too little. This is pure chaos. Ask a definite question, complete the task and close the topic, after this open new topic.
From the length of the discussion I can conclude that the question was vague and it went off topic too much. Just close this question with "my vanishing root partition" and open another on how to proceed with /opt on new install
regards
Actually, I've been done with "my vanishing root partition" for several days now. Other people have answered, and so I continue the thread, and ought to have stopped when it went off-topic.
You might not have noticed, but I've been more or less offline for most of the past week, while rebuilding my system. I made a few replies when I briefly came back online.
I always search online first for answers to my tech questions, usually for weeks or even months, for how to resolve problems, and otherwise I have lots of books on Linux. Only after I have failed to find answers do I ask here on the mailing list. My problem is not lack of searching, but rather that I don't know quite how to ask the questions, because I am not really a geek. I have only made myself into a kind of semi-demi-geek out of necessity, because I cannot do otherwise.
About July or August of 2017 I installed Debian and Trinity, and I've participated actively in the mailing list only since about November 2017, once I had got TDE up and running fairly smoothly. Now I am just trying to iron out the kinks.
I always ran KDE3, and haven't found a DE to compare with it, but changing to Debian and Trinity takes a little more effort than running a ready-made system. And by the way, I think the developers are doing a great job, and I've watched Trinity improve over the years; I only wish it were easier to find information. Then you wouldn't be bothered by my questions, as I would rather read than to have exchanges like this.
In hopes that I might learn something, if I picked the brains of people who know more than I, I put my questions to the group. Now, if you could kindly tell me how properly to ask questions, I would be most obliged. I don't know how else to learn but to ask, and I only ask when I haven't been able to find the answers on my own.
"Those who know do not speak, and those who speak do not know."
Regarding listening: I tried all the applicable suggestions that other put forward, in trying to sort out this problem. However, I will save my specific questions for a separate post under a different heading.
You are right, though, about it veering off-topic. Sorry about that, and I ought to have either put the matter to rest or made a different heading; but again, I was in the middle of rebuilding my system, you see.
I am just trying to learn, and the only way I know how to ask is just to ask.
Bill
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Am Mittwoch, 21. März 2018 schrieb deloptes:
[...] As of systemd, I followed recommendations given on the debian-user list and you need only to install sysv-rc sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils AFAIR. Then automagicall init is used instead of systemd. I used to put init=/lib/sysvinit/init into /etc/default/grub, but on the last machine where I did the move, I skipped it and I still get init as process #1. I have been using this for more than an year now and don't see why one should go for devuan.
That was true on jessie. But now systemd has infected lots of vital systems in debian. You you cannot have a systemd-free debian any more - that's where devuan comes in :-)
Nik
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
That was true on jessie. But now systemd has infected lots of vital systems in debian. You you cannot have a systemd-free debian any more - that's where devuan comes in :-)
IMO the problem is having it as proc #1 If it is called from time to time by an application that needs it, I don't care - it never did any harm so far.
On Thursday 22 March 2018 00:47:30 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 21. M�rz 2018 schrieb deloptes:
[...] As of systemd, I followed recommendations given on the debian-user list and you need only to install sysv-rc sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils AFAIR. Then automagicall init is used instead of systemd. I used to put init=/lib/sysvinit/init into /etc/default/grub, but on the last machine where I did the move, I skipped it and I still get init as process #1. I have been using this for more than an year now and don't see why one should go for devuan.
That was true on jessie. But now systemd has infected lots of vital systems in debian. You you cannot have a systemd-free debian any more - that's where devuan comes in :-)
Nik
This was my understanding, as well, from reading Debian/Devuan pages; but perhaps I am not so well-informed. I was intending to migrate to Devuan more based on principle (because, in principle, they are more Debian than Debian). Also, the Devuan community seems to be very well-organized, by comparison to other distros; especially considering the fact that Devuan was only forked in (I think) 2014.
Bill
On Thursday 22 March 2018 12:52:15 pm William Morder wrote: snip
. I was intending to migrate to Devuan more based on principle (because, in principle, they are more Debian than Debian).
snip
Bill
check Debians genome, that should clear things up :-)
greg
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 21:18 (UTC-0700):
Yes, running Debian Jessie 8.10 or whatever is the most recent update. I was wondering about how to format root. I am used to ext2 for root partition from older Ubuntu versions, but I see everybody using ext3 or ext4 now, so this might be part of the problem.
Formatting / is usually a default option in any Linux installer, but they tend to format the same type, which in your case is not desirable. Just be sure to specify / get formatted and /home not.
It is 32-bit because I installed a new motherboard, and that is all that was available for cheap. I've always run 64-bit before.
Any quick commands to find out CPU, chipset and gfxchip? And yes, some of it is old (I did say it's a Frankenstein), but my motherboard is pretty new.
lspci
or
inxi -v4 -m
should do well enough.
cat /proc/cpuinfo
can be misleading to the uninitiated, but does report whether limited to 32-bit or not.
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 20:00:09 -0700 William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
On Monday 19 March 2018 19:42:36 Nick Koretsky wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:28:24 -0700
William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1) partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
I may have missed that but it seems no one have asked it in the thread
- did you reboot you system during this time or is it a continuous
uptime?
Yes, I did reboot. I probably was rebooting my system every few days, just because my Firefox seems to be interfering with my network connection. And while I was learning the differences in a Debian system (in contrast to Ubuntu), I also rebooted constantly, because I was constantly messing up my system. For the past few months, though, my system has been fairly stable, and I haven't been downloading and installing new packages.
Right now the problems are: 1) my vanishing partition, 2) why Firefox messes up my network connection, and 3) minor bugs.
Nowadays I might go a week or two without rebooting, unless I end up with no space left on my root partition.
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You see one of a possible reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some daemon misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence one reason for rebooting, when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping issue of space disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time.
Well, than you have two different issues at hand. Two deal with a space that is reclaimed by reboot, run (when some space already gone) lsof -nP +L1 and look for anything suspicious here. Also, if /tmp is on real disk (not tmpfs), it is also a primal suspect for a space that is reclaimed by reboot.
For an issue with a long term lost space, the only thing i cab suggest it to setup a cron to run something like du -xcbd2 / > $(date +%j%H)
On Monday 19 March 2018 20:40:00 Nick Koretsky wrote:
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You see one of a possible reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some daemon misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence one reason for rebooting, when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping issue of space disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time.
Well, than you have two different issues at hand. Two deal with a space that is reclaimed by reboot, run (when some space already gone) lsof -nP +L1 and look for anything suspicious here.
All entries are marked as deleted. I could give you the whole list, but it is very long, and besides I am trying not to give out my user name, and other specific details. Anything I ought to look for, if all items are already marked as deleted?
Also, if /tmp is on real disk (not tmpfs), it is also a primal suspect for a space that is reclaimed by reboot.
I did look in /tmp, but there is nothing much there; although the presence of a systemd entry does bother me - but maybe this is by design.
For an issue with a long term lost space, the only thing i cab suggest it to setup a cron to run something like du -xcbd2 / > $(date +%j%H)
Running the cron job now.
Bill
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 20:52:44 -0700 William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You see one of a possible reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some daemon misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence one reason for rebooting, when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping issue of space disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time.
Well, than you have two different issues at hand. Two deal with a space that is reclaimed by reboot, run (when some space already gone) lsof -nP +L1 and look for anything suspicious here.
All entries are marked as deleted. I could give you the whole list, but it is very long, and besides I am trying not to give out my user name, and other specific details. Anything I ought to look for, if all items are already marked as deleted?
This command list "deleted" files which are not yet actually deleted, only references to them are removed. They are still opened by some program and will use disk space until program closes them. Strictly speaking there should be no such files at all, but bad programing practices and simple errors exists, so actual situation is not as rosy. Browsers, especially chrome, are notorious for this shit, but the files they used should mostly be in /home or /run Look for any files that are located on root in this list. BTW, i have just run this command on my machine and palemoon have are 80MB deleted file in /temp open.... as an example of possible things.
Also, if /tmp is on real disk (not tmpfs), it is also a primal suspect for a space that is reclaimed by reboot.
I did look in /tmp, but there is nothing much there; although the presence of a systemd entry does bother me - but maybe this is by design.
For an issue with a long term lost space, the only thing i cab suggest it to setup a cron to run something like du -xcbd2 / > $(date +%j%H)
Running the cron job now.
Oops send previous without message without finishing. Accumulate output from this cron job (at hourly interval) for a few days, than diff them to pinpoint where and when directory sizes are growing.
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 05:10:15AM -0700, William Morder wrote:
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root partition keep disappearing?
When you say root partition, I assume you mean that /home is a separate partition.
Check for anything unusual in the logs. What do they say?
One you might not think of is .xsession-errors, which is normally in your home directory. If you are logged into a GUI as root, you could have /root/.xsession-errors too. I once had one grow large enough to fill my home partition in a matter of hours. I don't remember what was causing it, sorry, but if you find the .xsession-errors file is huge, you can always read it and see what it says.
(I'm assuming the systemd hasn't eliminated .xsession-errors, like they've eliminated everything else pure and good in the world...)
Check for file system corruption.
https://superuser.com/questions/401217/how-to-check-root-partition-with-fsck
Run smartctrl to check the disk. Suppose your root partition is on /dev/sda, I would run something like:
# basic health check smartctl -H -d ata /dev/sda
# short test smartctl -t short -C -d ata /dev/sda smartctl -a /dev/sda
smartctl isn't the easiest or most intuitive program in the world, make sure you read some tutorials first. Try this one:
https://www.thomas-krenn.com/en/wiki/SMART_tests_with_smartctl
If you're running solid state disks, there's probably no point: in general, they either work, or die, with nothing in between.
If you've eliminated everything else -- emptied all caches, no file system corruption or bad disks, no unusual entries in the logs etc -- then you may have to consider the possibility that you've been hacked, despite all your security. If somebody is using your computer for bitcoin mining, that might do it: the block chain exceeded 100GB a few years ago.
http://www.coinfox.info/news/6700-bitcoin-blockchain-size-reaches-100-gb
Yes, that's 100 gigabytes. Or simply storing their warez on your computer, like it's 1999 again :-)
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:23:15 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 05:10:15AM -0700, William Morder wrote:
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root partition keep disappearing?
When you say root partition, I assume you mean that /home is a separate partition.
My /dev/sda is set up like so: sda1 / sda2 swap sda3 /home
Check for anything unusual in the logs. What do they say?
Checking logs will take a while, but will get to that. I will look into .xsession-errors first. I sometimes log into konqueror as root, just for troubleshooting, but I don't leave it open.
One you might not think of is .xsession-errors, which is normally in your home directory. If you are logged into a GUI as root, you could have /root/.xsession-errors too. I once had one grow large enough to fill my home partition in a matter of hours. I don't remember what was causing it, sorry, but if you find the .xsession-errors file is huge, you can always read it and see what it says.
(I'm assuming the systemd hasn't eliminated .xsession-errors, like they've eliminated everything else pure and good in the world...)
Yes, systemd is a sure sign that Doomsday is approaching: https://web.archive.org/web/20180219182020/https://www.infoworld.com/article...
Check for file system corruption.
https://superuser.com/questions/401217/how-to-check-root-partition-with-fsc k
Run smartctrl to check the disk. Suppose your root partition is on /dev/sda, I would run something like:
# basic health check smartctl -H -d ata /dev/sda
# short test smartctl -t short -C -d ata /dev/sda smartctl -a /dev/sda
smartctl isn't the easiest or most intuitive program in the world, make sure you read some tutorials first. Try this one:
https://www.thomas-krenn.com/en/wiki/SMART_tests_with_smartctl
If you're running solid state disks, there's probably no point: in general, they either work, or die, with nothing in between.
If you've eliminated everything else -- emptied all caches, no file system corruption or bad disks, no unusual entries in the logs etc -- then you may have to consider the possibility that you've been hacked, despite all your security. If somebody is using your computer for bitcoin mining, that might do it: the block chain exceeded 100GB a few years ago.
http://www.coinfox.info/news/6700-bitcoin-blockchain-size-reaches-100-gb
Yes, that's 100 gigabytes. Or simply storing their warez on your computer, like it's 1999 again :-)
I did have a problem where Firefox kept freezing my computer, or disconnecting me; but once I changed to Icecat, it my computer has been purring like a kitten.
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:23:15 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
If you've eliminated everything else -- emptied all caches, no file system corruption or bad disks, no unusual entries in the logs etc -- then you may have to consider the possibility that you've been hacked, despite all your security. If somebody is using your computer for bitcoin mining, that might do it: the block chain exceeded 100GB a few years ago.
http://www.coinfox.info/news/6700-bitcoin-blockchain-size-reaches-100-gb
Yes, that's 100 gigabytes. Or simply storing their warez on your computer, like it's 1999 again :-)
I am checking out the other links concerning tests to run. I'm pretty sure my hard disk is not corrupted; I run fsck fairly often. And I doubt it is bitcoin mining (although I only know bitcoin from the defensive position).
I not only block (or attempt to block) bitcoin miners, but also modify my hosts file to block all ads, and disable ipv6, etc.
Richard Stallman keeps telling me that the proper word here is "cracked" not "hacked"; and I agree, though I know everybody, including myself, says hacked for both good and bad. Anyway, if I have been cracked or hacked, it is either through brute force, or somebody got physical access to my computer (which I lock down when I leave the house); or maybe by somebody with a lot of money and resources.
Otherwise, my attacker has impressive skills, and his/her/their talents are wasted on low-hanging fruit like whatever is on my computer. They really ought to consider aiming for bigger targets, as I will just crawl back under my rock again.
Bill
It could be that there is somebody out there who found a way in, but I
Okay, so new thread!
As I was repartitioning my hard drive, I was trying to find out the lowdown on this /opt folder. This is a new thing since I have started running Trinity; I never noticed it before when running Kubuntu. Only after I started running the Trinity desktop, that is when I noticed the installation to /opt; and only then I noticed that other programs were installing in that folder.
A friend told me that he creates separate partitions for both /opt and /etc; and then, too, I noticed that the new Icecat browser does something even weirder, which is to install in /usr/lib/icecat, rather than (like other Mozilla browsers) in /home/<USER>/.mozilla/.
My question is really more or less the same for all these items. I want to be able, once I have configured them as I wish, just to clone that directory, so that I don't have to keep reinventing the wheel, over and over again.
When I tried to research the /opt folder, I didn't find out much. If I create a separate partition, will I be able to leave it untouched like my home folder? Will Trinity (and other programs) automatically be installed there?
I suppose could just back it up regularly, then overwrite it once I have reinstalled, but I would like to treat it like my /home/<USER>/ folder, and leave it intact.
The same with Icecat: it seems to run better than Firefox/Iceweasel, but to install everything in /usr/lib/icecat seems very irregular. Is there some way to get it to install elsewhere? for example, in /opt?
Bill
William Morder wrote:
Okay, so new thread!
Thats good. You can read about partitioning your drive https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/apc.html.en
It is minimalistic but it gives you an impression
So what I usually do is having two partitions (assume you install on /dev/sda) /dev/sda1 about 512MB format ext3 or ext4 will be boot partition /dev/sda2 the rest of the drive
when installing I choose to encrypt (luks) /dev/sda2 then create logical volumes on the encrypted partition. Typically:
/dev/mapper/G500lvm-data /dev/mapper/G500lvm-home /dev/mapper/G500lvm-opt /dev/mapper/G500lvm-root /dev/mapper/G500lvm-swap
you've got some recommendations about root and opt - the rest depends on you swap is at least 1x or 2x the memory you have. I choose the maximum memory size I can place into the machine (you never know)
and then install as mentioned before: first minimal debian and then TDE
good luck
William Morder composed on 2018-03-24 08:18 (UTC-0700):
A friend told me that he creates separate partitions for both /opt and /etc; and then, too, I noticed that the new Icecat browser does something even weirder, which is to install in /usr/lib/icecat, rather than (like other Mozilla browsers) in /home/<USER>/.mozilla/.
Mozilla browser *profiles* (user data) traditionally go in ~/.mozilla (/home/username/.mozilla). On my systems this is Firefox and SeaMonkey. Thunderbird's go in ~/.thunderbird.
Mozilla predates other common GUI web browsers by a bunch of years, when users' appdata went in $HOME by convention. Newer browsers, eg $HOME/.config/chromium, have adopted a superceding convention, $HOME/.config/appname/.
/usr/lib/appname is where most apps go, main exception being those that inexplicably decide on /opt/ instead.
http://www.linuxbase.org/betaspecs/fhs/fhs/index.html
"/opt is reserved for the installation of add-on application software packages. A package to be installed in /opt must locate its static files in a separate /opt/<package> or /opt/<provider> directory tree, where <package> is a name that describes the software package and <provider> is the provider's LANANA registered name."
"/usr/lib includes object files and libraries. On some systems, it may also include internal binaries that are not intended to be executed directly by users or shell scripts. Applications may use a single subdirectory under /usr/lib. If an application uses a subdirectory, all architecture-dependent data exclusively used by the application must be placed within that subdirectory."
As for partitioning your drive, I don't do separate partitions for /etc /opt /home. It has been decades since I even heard of anyone recommending doing that.
-LTH
On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 11:18 AM, William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
Okay, so new thread!
As I was repartitioning my hard drive, I was trying to find out the lowdown on this /opt folder. This is a new thing since I have started running Trinity; I never noticed it before when running Kubuntu. Only after I started running the Trinity desktop, that is when I noticed the installation to /opt; and only then I noticed that other programs were installing in that folder.
A friend told me that he creates separate partitions for both /opt and /etc; and then, too, I noticed that the new Icecat browser does something even weirder, which is to install in /usr/lib/icecat, rather than (like other Mozilla browsers) in /home/<USER>/.mozilla/.
My question is really more or less the same for all these items. I want to be able, once I have configured them as I wish, just to clone that directory, so that I don't have to keep reinventing the wheel, over and over again.
When I tried to research the /opt folder, I didn't find out much. If I create a separate partition, will I be able to leave it untouched like my home folder? Will Trinity (and other programs) automatically be installed there?
I suppose could just back it up regularly, then overwrite it once I have reinstalled, but I would like to treat it like my /home/<USER>/ folder, and leave it intact.
The same with Icecat: it seems to run better than Firefox/Iceweasel, but to install everything in /usr/lib/icecat seems very irregular. Is there some way to get it to install elsewhere? for example, in /opt?
Bill
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Another recurring bug: Now, icons, applets, etc., move around, even after I lock the lower panel on the screen, even after rebooting, even after I have gone through several sessions and reboots. Sometimes icons and applets appear on top of one another, or disappear altogether. I unlock the panel and drag everything back to where I want it, lock it again, then everything seems to settle down for a session. And when I reboot, it's all messed-up again.
Everything was fine for months on end, until I made the mistake of trying to nudge some icons slightly to create a little more empty space. (I even restored them to their previous state, and relocked the panel, but that didn't work.)
I've enclosed some screenshots as attachments, so that everybody can see how I want it to look (right) and how it gets messed-up (wrong). Note that there are several marked "wrong"; and that these kept moving round even though I had the panel locked at the time.
By the way, I am running Debian Jessie 8.8.0 (upgraded to 8.10 or whatever), and Trinity R14.0.4.
Any suggestions or observations will be appreciated. Thanks!
Bill
I'm not sure if this is problem that specifically concerns Trinity. I generally burn CDs and DVDs with k3b, and almost never use any other program. (I'm using the k3b-trinity packages.) I considered trying to use the non-Trinity version of k3b, or to boot into a KDE desktop instead of TDE, to see if that works. However, I also tried with Brasero, and had similar problems, so I'm guessing that the problem is not just with Trinity.
No problem at all burning DVDs, including dual-layer. (I don't know about Blu-Ray, but I don't use them.) Whenever I try to burn CDs, however, k3b goes through the whole process, creating image, normalisation, etc., then crashes before it actually burns the CD.
I ought to say that these are audio CDs. I've tried burning flac and wav files to CD, both with the same bad results. Also, a few weeks back, I tried to copy a large collection of mp3 files to a DVD as a data disc, but the program crashed before it could complete, and ruined the disc. I don't know if that incident could be related or not.
It occurs to me to try to write a CD from the command-line, using growisofs or the like, but I've never done that before.
I'm running Debian Jessie 8.8.0 and Trinity r14.04.
Any help or observations would be appreciated.
Bill
Actually, it's running sort of okay, which is surprising, considering that I cannot find my wlan0 interface, yet I can still connect to the internet and send and receive emails; except that, as far as my system is concerned, I am not actually connected, even though I really am connected.
It all started when I couldn't download packages from the repository at security.debian.org. After doing a little research, I discovered that security packages will no longer be supported for Jessie after (I think) 17 June 2018. And I had been putting off upgrading to Stretch, and furthermore I really wanted to switch to Devuan. So now I've done it, but there are a few bugs. I was worried that my system would be unusable, but instead it is just somewhat crippled.
So my process was first to change repositories in my sources.list, from Jessie to Stretch, then I upgraded. Then I changed sources.list again to Devuan Ascii, and upgraded yet again.
Now my network managers and other network-aware programs cannot recognize wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the shared network in my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even bother suggesting that I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to plug in *to*: it's wifi or nothing.
I seem to recall that other systems (maybe Stretch?) used different names for some of the same interfaces, so it might just be a problem of renaming my wlan0 interface to something else. Only I can't find any other names.
Also I cannot use Tor, or anything over proxy servers. As I said, the problem here seems to be that my system cannot find the interface that I use to connect. I can see activity over what appears to be wlan0, yet I cannot activate wlan0 either through a gui program, or by command-line, or by changing the lines in /etc/network/interfaces ... so any help here would be appreciated. It seems to be a simple basic problem, since I still have a running system with some kind of network.
But yay! I have got Devuan Ascii running on my system, so I imagine the rest of my problems as just fine tuning.
Please help!
Bill
On 12 June 2018 at 20:31, William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
Actually, it's running sort of okay, which is surprising, considering that I cannot find my wlan0 interface, yet I can still connect to the internet and send and receive emails; except that, as far as my system is concerned, I am not actually connected, even though I really am connected.
It all started when I couldn't download packages from the repository at security.debian.org. After doing a little research, I discovered that security packages will no longer be supported for Jessie after (I think) 17 June 2018. And I had been putting off upgrading to Stretch, and furthermore I really wanted to switch to Devuan. So now I've done it, but there are a few bugs. I was worried that my system would be unusable, but instead it is just somewhat crippled.
So my process was first to change repositories in my sources.list, from Jessie to Stretch, then I upgraded. Then I changed sources.list again to Devuan Ascii, and upgraded yet again.
Now my network managers and other network-aware programs cannot recognize wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the shared network in my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even bother suggesting that I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to plug in *to*: it's wifi or nothing.
I seem to recall that other systems (maybe Stretch?) used different names for some of the same interfaces, so it might just be a problem of renaming my wlan0 interface to something else. Only I can't find any other names.
Also I cannot use Tor, or anything over proxy servers. As I said, the problem here seems to be that my system cannot find the interface that I use to connect. I can see activity over what appears to be wlan0, yet I cannot activate wlan0 either through a gui program, or by command-line, or by changing the lines in /etc/network/interfaces ... so any help here would be appreciated. It seems to be a simple basic problem, since I still have a running system with some kind of network.
But yay! I have got Devuan Ascii running on my system, so I imagine the rest of my problems as just fine tuning.
Please help!
Bill
Something similar happened after I installed Devuan Ascii in a new partition: wlan0 wasn't seen by wicd or any other program. After a lot of fussing, I had to get a deb file with the driver for my wireless card and install it using gdebi. After that, wlan0 was available (maybe had to reboot). - R
On Tue June 12 2018 20:31:27 William Morder wrote:
Now my network managers and other network-aware programs cannot recognize wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the shared network in my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even bother suggesting that I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to plug in *to*: it's wifi or nothing.
Did I miss seeing this question on the Devuan list?
What sayeth "ipconfig", "ip link", "iwconfig", "dpkg -l | grep udev", "dpkg -l | grep dbus", "dpkg -l | grep network-manager", "dpkg -l | grep wpa", "ps ax | head -2", and "cat /etc/network/interfaces"?
FWIW my wlan0 is running fine in Ascii + TDE with openvpn and quagga, although we don't use network manager.
--Mike
On Wednesday 13 June 2018 00:05:07 Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue June 12 2018 20:31:27 William Morder wrote:
Now my network managers and other network-aware programs cannot recognize wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the shared network in my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even bother suggesting that I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to plug in *to*: it's wifi or nothing.
Did I miss seeing this question on the Devuan list?
What sayeth "ipconfig", "ip link", "iwconfig", "dpkg -l | grep udev", "dpkg -l | grep dbus", "dpkg -l | grep network-manager", "dpkg -l | grep wpa", "ps ax | head -2", and "cat /etc/network/interfaces"?
FWIW my wlan0 is running fine in Ascii + TDE with openvpn and quagga, although we don't use network manager.
--Mike
I did try some of those already. However, just to be sure, I'll go through your list to see if anything interesting comes up.
I keep running apt-get -f install, and apt keeps finding new things to install or uninstall.
Now I can run a proxy, send and receive email; but I cannot use any direct connections. One good thing: the Devuan servers are a lot faster than Debian servers. It's probably just due to fewer people using them, but it's nice have quicker downloads.
Bill
On Wed June 13 2018 01:00:03 William Morder wrote:
but I cannot use any direct connections
You appear to be using a direct SMTP connection, and probably also a direct POP3 or IMAP connection. What kind of direct connection is not working, how are you trying to make that connection, and what if any error message do you see?
--Mike
On Wednesday 13 June 2018 01:13:57 Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 13 2018 01:00:03 William Morder wrote:
but I cannot use any direct connections
You appear to be using a direct SMTP connection, and probably also a direct POP3 or IMAP connection. What kind of direct connection is not working, how are you trying to make that connection, and what if any error message do you see?
--Mike
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It is http or https that doesn't work with a direct connect. And email is smtp and pop3.
I don't get any error messages. I get nothing at all. The browser just doesn't load over a direct connection. If you mean what do I get when I run a command in a console, I am just now going through commands. So far, ifconfig and iwconfig turn up nothing new; it looks normal enough.
Bill
On Wed June 13 2018 01:25:00 William Morder wrote:
I don't get any error messages. I get nothing at all. The browser just doesn't load over a direct connection. If you mean what do I get when I run a command in a console, I am just now going through commands. So far, ifconfig and iwconfig turn up nothing new; it looks normal enough.
You had earlier stated that "network-aware programs cannot recognize wlan0". What appears in ifconfig and iwconfig?
--Mike
On Wednesday 13 June 2018 01:30:33 Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 13 2018 01:25:00 William Morder wrote:
I don't get any error messages. I get nothing at all. The browser just doesn't load over a direct connection. If you mean what do I get when I run a command in a console, I am just now going through commands. So far, ifconfig and iwconfig turn up nothing new; it looks normal enough.
You had earlier stated that "network-aware programs cannot recognize wlan0". What appears in ifconfig and iwconfig?
--Mike
I've already tried these; I used these commands all the time, especially iwconfig.
ifconfig -a eth0: flags=4099<UP,BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 ether 00:1d:60:94:77:a4 txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet) RX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B) RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0 TX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B) TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0
lo: flags=73<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING> mtu 65536 inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 255.0.0.0 loop txqueuelen 0 (Local Loopback) RX packets 552644 bytes 2130121850 (1.9 GiB) RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0 TX packets 552644 bytes 2130121850 (1.9 GiB) TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0
wlan0: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 inet 10.246.154.167 netmask 255.255.252.0 broadcast 10.246.155.255 inet6 fe80::202:72ff:fe88:d1fd prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x20<link> ether 00:02:72:88:d1:fd txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet) RX packets 2776170 bytes 4048306737 (3.7 GiB) RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0 TX packets 1449588 bytes 197469814 (188.3 MiB) TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0
Note that I disable ipv6, so I'm curious if it has somehow got re-enabled.
iwconfig wlan0 IEEE 802.11bg ESSID:"WHERE I LIVE" Mode:Managed Frequency:2.412 GHz Access Point: AC:86:74:A3:66:C2 Bit Rate=54 Mb/s Tx-Power=30 dBm Retry short limit:7 RTS thr:off Fragment thr:off Encryption key:off Power Management:off Link Quality=58/100 Signal level=58/100 Rx invalid nwid:0 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:161 Invalid misc:41051 Missed beacon:0
lo no wireless extensions.
eth0 no wireless extensions.
But when I look at network configuration in other places (for instance, in Trinity Control Center), no network connections at all are supposed to be enabled.
Bill
On Wed June 13 2018 01:41:34 William Morder wrote:
But when I look at network configuration in other places (for instance, in Trinity Control Center), no network connections at all are supposed to be enabled.
Hi Bill,
I would ask you please to make your posts here as precise as possible, such that other people have enough information to perform the same steps as you have performed and to compare their results with yours.
Are you saying that Trinity Control Center / Peripherals / Information / / Network Interfaces shows no interfaces, not even lo?
What please is your "uptime", "cat /proc/version", "lsof /sbin/udevd", and "ps ax | grep dbus"?
--Mike
On Wednesday 13 June 2018 01:52:16 Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 13 2018 01:41:34 William Morder wrote:
But when I look at network configuration in other places (for instance, in Trinity Control Center), no network connections at all are supposed to be enabled.
Hi Bill,
I would ask you please to make your posts here as precise as possible, such that other people have enough information to perform the same steps as you have performed and to compare their results with yours.
Are you saying that Trinity Control Center / Peripherals / Information / / Network Interfaces shows no interfaces, not even lo?
What please is your "uptime", "cat /proc/version", "lsof /sbin/udevd", and "ps ax | grep dbus"?
--Mike
Sorry to take so long to respond. I tried to take a screenshot to show you what I meant, then my system crashed and I could not boot up again. When I tried to reinstall my system, I kept having problems, so I finally migrated over to Devuan Jessie/Beowulf (I believe it's called). Now my system is back to normal again, only better (I hope).
Brief answer: You are correct, when I looked in Trinity Control Center / Peripherals / Information / Network Interfaces I saw nothing at all there, not even lo. The same is true when I looked in Trinity Control Center / Internet & Network / Network Settings It was the same, no matter if I was user or root.
I think the problem was just that I was tired of installing and reinstalling, and futzing round with trying to get my system working, when I already had a "finely tuned system" (to quote somebody else here); so maybe I skipped some steps in my haste. When I sent that last post to the mailing list, my system was unstable, and about to crash. I was only upgrading to Debian Jessie then on to Devuan Ascii, because I read that security.debian.org servers will no longer support Jessie.
Now that I am running Devuan Jessie/Beowulf (?), I don't know if that is still true (that as of today, 17th of June, security patches for Jessie will not be supported). At least Devuan seems to run smoother than Debian. I believe that hereafter I will confine my learning experiments to my laptop, and save my desktop for actual work.
Bill
On 06/13/2018 12:05 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue June 12 2018 20:31:27 William Morder wrote:
Now my network managers and other network-aware programs cannot recognize wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the shared network in my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even bother suggesting that I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to plug in *to*: it's wifi or nothing.
Did I miss seeing this question on the Devuan list?
What sayeth "ipconfig", "ip link", "iwconfig", "dpkg -l | grep udev", "dpkg -l | grep dbus", "dpkg -l | grep network-manager", "dpkg -l | grep wpa", "ps ax | head -2", and "cat /etc/network/interfaces"?
FWIW my wlan0 is running fine in Ascii + TDE with openvpn and quagga, although we don't use network manager.
I just configure /interfaces to hot plug and configure wicd accordingly, with Devuan it's easy.
Cheers,
On Wednesday 13 June 2018 01:17:43 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
On 06/13/2018 12:05 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue June 12 2018 20:31:27 William Morder wrote:
Now my network managers and other network-aware programs cannot recognize wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the shared network in my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even bother suggesting that I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to plug in *to*: it's wifi or nothing.
Did I miss seeing this question on the Devuan list?
What sayeth "ipconfig", "ip link", "iwconfig", "dpkg -l | grep udev", "dpkg -l | grep dbus", "dpkg -l | grep network-manager", "dpkg -l | grep wpa", "ps ax | head -2", and "cat /etc/network/interfaces"?
FWIW my wlan0 is running fine in Ascii + TDE with openvpn and quagga, although we don't use network manager.
I just configure /interfaces to hot plug and configure wicd accordingly, with Devuan it's easy.
Cheers,
I already tried to configure interfaces to hot plug, but it reverts to defaults, which only list lo, not even eth0, and not wlan0 at all. And wicd is okay, but downloading those packages seems to be a bit tricky. I keep downloading the same stuff, over and over, including wicd and associated packages.
Bill
Okay, so new thread, and nothing about coffee, chocolate, mythical beasts, religious theories, or the current price of tea in China.
I recently migrated from Debian Jessie to the Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version. My problem is, now I cannot turn off my network, nor control the connection at all. I was using the network-manager-tde package, which has always worked just fine for me. I've tried all the other network managers, and don't like how they behave. In particular, I want to set my network so that it never connects automatically, and will only connect manually.
Also, I would like to be able to switch to another network if I so choose (such as, whenever I clone this system to use on my laptop, and take it to work remotely, like when doing research at the library). I've tried using the iwconfig commands
iwconfig wlan0 txpower on iwconfig wlan0 txpower off
but these currently do nothing. When I do manage to disconnect, then I cannot reconnect at all, not even after reboot, and am left with no alternative but to reinstall my entire system.
This does not change, not even when I reboot, not even when I uninstall (or purge) and reinstall the packages. I've gone through my Linux books, tried searching online, and thus far nobody seems to have my problem.
Also, I need to be able to use macchanger; because I get weird situations where I can browse the web but not check email (almost as though I seem to be using two or more different connections at once); or I can check email (like now), but not browse the web. With macchanger, if I had those problems, I could always disconnect, change my local IP, then reconnect, and suddenly everything was fine again. The same goes for my proxy usage: I have many more connection issues when I do not use a proxy.
One thing I need to do is to disable IPv6. I did some research, and found a reliable way to do this, and my connection immediately improved. Now, however, the same method doesn't seem to work, so I believe it may be that this is part of the problem. (I don't mind the idea of using IPv6, it's just that I don't know it well enough yet, and cannot find a firewall that can adequately deal with it according to my wishes. I want to be able to see my connections in real time, as in Firestarter. A cli firewall that does this, sort of like top, would be ideal.) I also don't mind at all using command-line to control the network, but I like to be able to view the networks within range; this is the only reason that I use a network manager. I've tried pretty much all of the managers: TDEnetworkmanager, Knetworkmanager, wpa_supplicant, Kwifimanager, and of course wicd and its variants. My problem with wicd is that it wants root permissions, then it won't allow me to use it; the only recourse is to enable it to run at startup (by checking all the boxes in sysv-rc-conf), so that I bypass the problem of privileges.
The network manager applet, too, says that I am not authorized to disconnect or connect. This was not a problem before I migrated to Devuan; on the other hand, most of my other problems (mostly minor bugs) seem to have disappeared. For all practical purposes, I cannot use a proxy, nor am I able to do two things at once online. All this was working fine in Debian Jessie, but not since I've gone to Devuan.
Observations and suggestions are welcome. Please feel free to trim down my post to specific points.
If I disappear from the list again for a few days, you'll know why.
Bill
On 06/20/2018 07:23 AM, William Morder wrote:
I recently migrated from Debian Jessie to the Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version. My problem is, now I cannot turn off my network, nor control the connection at all. I was using the network-manager-tde package, which has always worked just fine for me. I've tried all the other network managers, and don't like how they behave. In particular, I want to set my network so that it never connects automatically, and will only connect manually.
Observations and suggestions are welcome. Please feel free to trim down my post to specific points.
Devuan Jessie was a good idea, but everything above Devuan Jessie is not for a stable system and you don't need network manager it's counter productive, all you need is wicd.
If all you're doing is testing, well have fun, it's all a learning thing. I'm just trying to help you the best I can.
Cheers,
On Wed June 20 2018 07:23:07 William Morder wrote:
I recently migrated from Debian Jessie to the Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version. My problem is, now I cannot turn off my network, nor control the connection at all. I was using the network-manager-tde package, which has always worked just fine for me. I've tried all the other network managers, and don't like how they behave. In particular, I want to set my network so that it never connects automatically, and will only connect manually.
Devuan Jessie works well but is based on Debian Jessie which is moving into LTS.
Devuan Ascii works well and is based on Debian Stretch and is well supported.
Devuan Beowulf is in development based on Debian Buster in development.
I don't know what you mean by "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version". I would not recommend Jessie as it is moving to LTS. I would not recommend Beowulf at this time except to bleeding edge users who are comfortable fixing any problems they might encounter. I would suggest you start with a working Devuan Ascii before thinking about TDE PSB.
--Mike
On 06/20/2018 10:23 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 20 2018 07:23:07 William Morder wrote:
I recently migrated from Debian Jessie to the Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version. My problem is, now I cannot turn off my network, nor control the connection at all. I was using the network-manager-tde package, which has always worked just fine for me. I've tried all the other network managers, and don't like how they behave. In particular, I want to set my network so that it never connects automatically, and will only connect manually.
Devuan Jessie works well but is based on Debian Jessie which is moving into LTS.
Devuan Ascii works well and is based on Debian Stretch and is well supported.
Devuan Beowulf is in development based on Debian Buster in development.
I don't know what you mean by "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version". I would not recommend Jessie as it is moving to LTS. I would not recommend Beowulf at this time except to bleeding edge users who are comfortable fixing any problems they might encounter. I would suggest you start with a working Devuan Ascii before thinking about TDE PSB.
--Mike
Mike while ASCII has been released, on my systems and I have many, it's not usable as a stable system. The reason is my external HDMI screen video and audio go blank/black-out and then it comes back and then it goes blank again, over and over, not doable while using the system. This I have produced over and over. Also reported on Debian User list by me and others. Until fixed ASCII is not usable.
And why do you not recommend Jessie, LTS or not?
Cheers,
On Wed June 20 2018 11:26:13 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
Mike while ASCII has been released, on my systems and I have many, it's not usable as a stable system. The reason is my external HDMI screen video and audio go blank/black-out and then it comes back and then it goes blank again, over and over, not doable while using the system. This I have produced over and over. Also reported on Debian User list by me and others. Until fixed ASCII is not usable.
And why do you not recommend Jessie, LTS or not?
Jessie is usable but LTS means Long Term Support means less security support.
That said, if Ascii does not work for you then I would recommend Devuan Jessie at least in the short term. You need to get a solid base that works for you and then upgrade by simple stages.
Can you give me a Debian bug number for the HDMI problem for reference?
--Mike
On 06/20/2018 11:42 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 20 2018 11:26:13 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
Mike while ASCII has been released, on my systems and I have many, it's not usable as a stable system. The reason is my external HDMI screen video and audio go blank/black-out and then it comes back and then it goes blank again, over and over, not doable while using the system. This I have produced over and over. Also reported on Debian User list by me and others. Until fixed ASCII is not usable.
And why do you not recommend Jessie, LTS or not?
Jessie is usable but LTS means Long Term Support means less security support.
That said, if Ascii does not work for you then I would recommend Devuan Jessie at least in the short term. You need to get a solid base that works for you and then upgrade by simple stages.
Do you mean like if I do a Jessie base install and then upgrade to ASCII and then install my desktop or something else? Just so you know Trinity for Jessie will not install on ASCII/Stretch, I wish it would.
Can you give me a Debian bug number for the HDMI problem for reference?
--Mike
In more than 20 years I've never filed a bug report, but there have been Dev's who have shown a interest and have been able to reproduce the problems I have found and have filed bug reports, so I don't know if there has been a bug report filed or not.
Cheers,
On Wed June 20 2018 12:04:46 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
On 06/20/2018 11:42 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
Jessie is usable but LTS means Long Term Support means less security support.
That said, if Ascii does not work for you then I would recommend Devuan Jessie at least in the short term. You need to get a solid base that works for you and then upgrade by simple stages.
Do you mean like if I do a Jessie base install and then upgrade to ASCII and then install my desktop or something else? Just so you know Trinity for Jessie will not install on ASCII/Stretch, I wish it would.
Trinity Stable for Jessie works well with Jessie.
Trinity PSB for Ascii works well with Ascii.
Please make your posts as precise as possible. I still don't know what you mean when you say you migrated to the "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version".
Can you give me a Debian bug number for the HDMI problem for reference?
In more than 20 years I've never filed a bug report, but there have been Dev's who have shown a interest and have been able to reproduce the problems I have found and have filed bug reports, so I don't know if there has been a bug report filed or not.
Please search Debian bug reports for your Debian HDMI bug. If there's no report on your problem please file one. If there's a TDE bug please do the same with TDE bug reports ... but thus far I don't see any TDE aspect to this and I don't understand why you're posting complaints to a TDE list instead of filing bugs to the Debian bug database.
--Mike
On 06/20/2018 12:27 PM, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 20 2018 12:04:46 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
On 06/20/2018 11:42 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
Jessie is usable but LTS means Long Term Support means less security support.
That said, if Ascii does not work for you then I would recommend Devuan Jessie at least in the short term. You need to get a solid base that works for you and then upgrade by simple stages.
Do you mean like if I do a Jessie base install and then upgrade to ASCII and then install my desktop or something else? Just so you know Trinity for Jessie will not install on ASCII/Stretch, I wish it would.
Trinity Stable for Jessie works well with Jessie.
To bad it don't work with ASCII.
Trinity PSB for Ascii works well with Ascii.
Please make your posts as precise as possible. I still don't know what you mean when you say you migrated to the "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version".
Bill said that not me.
Can you give me a Debian bug number for the HDMI problem for reference?
In more than 20 years I've never filed a bug report, but there have been Dev's who have shown a interest and have been able to reproduce the problems I have found and have filed bug reports, so I don't know if there has been a bug report filed or not.
Please search Debian bug reports for your Debian HDMI bug. If there's no report on your problem please file one.
Why should I start now.
If there's a TDE bug please do the same with TDE bug reports ... but thus far I don't see any TDE aspect to this and I don't understand why you're posting complaints to a TDE list instead of filing bugs to the Debian bug database.
I'm not using Debian, I'm using Devuan. Also I was talking to Bill and then you jumped in, so I explained the problem to you and why I don't recommend Bill upgrading from Jessie. I'm pretty sure what's going on is a security problem and part of that systemd crap that has not been rooted out yet. Besides I like using Jessie and hate to upgrade, but I will test most anything and give a report *if I feel like it*. Also I'm not much of a joiner. :)
I'm sure the problem will be fixed in time it just takes a couple of years. In the meantime Dev's will be using Jessie and will not notice the problem. If you're in Yosemite I worked there for about 10 yrs(early 80's to the early 90's), just thought I'd let you know.
Cheers,
On Wed June 20 2018 13:08:15 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
On 06/20/2018 12:27 PM, Mike Bird wrote:
Please make your posts as precise as possible. I still don't know what you mean when you say you migrated to the "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version".
Bill said that not me.
I apologize for my mistake.
I still don't know what Bill means by "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version".
Please search Debian bug reports for your Debian HDMI bug. If there's no report on your problem please file one.
Why should I start now.
If you just complain it wastes developer time and is very inefficient.
Please search and file bug reports and thus provide focus and reduce duplication and facilitate tracking, discussion, fixing, and fix verification.
I'm not using Debian, I'm using Devuan.
Devuan is roughly 99.9% Debian and has roughly two orders of magnitude more developers. Again, to avoid inefficient duplication, reports of bugs in the Debian portion should be filed in the Debian bug database.
I'm sure the problem will be fixed in time it just takes a couple of years. In the meantime Dev's will be using Jessie and will not notice the problem.
Relatively few people will be using Jessie henceforth due to immediately reduced security support and slowly increasing obsolescence.
If you're in Yosemite I worked there for about 10 yrs(early 80's to the early 90's), just thought I'd let you know.
I was the first ISP in the county - before the telco.
--Mike
Hi Mike, people and others.
LTS has less security support in what way. In general because there are less improvements compared to the none lts? Just to be clear. Thanks Kate
On Wed June 20 2018 13:13:16 Kate Draven wrote:
LTS has less security support in what way. In general because there are less improvements compared to the none lts?
Hi Kate,
A few packages lose all support with LTS. The majority in my experience tend to get somewhat less security support than Stable and OldStable.
OTOH I've seen several cases where a DLA arrived before the equivalent DSA.
--Mike
On Wednesday 20 June 2018, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 20 2018 13:13:16 Kate Draven wrote:
LTS has less security support in what way. In general because there are less improvements compared to the none lts?
Hi Kate,
A few packages lose all support with LTS. The majority in my experience tend to get somewhat less security support than Stable and OldStable.
OTOH I've seen several cases where a DLA arrived before the equivalent DSA.
--Mike
So what would your recommendation be. I tend to avoid LTS kernels because I'd rather chance it with newer STS kernels.
Thanks for letting me pick your brainZZZZ!
Zombie Kate
On Wed June 20 2018 14:14:18 Kate Draven wrote:
So what would your recommendation be. I tend to avoid LTS kernels because I'd rather chance it with newer STS kernels.
Hi Kate,
I don't know anything about your needs and preferences.
I'm using Devuan Ascii with TDE PSB. I also have several Ascii test boxes with and without TDE. Our live servers are currently Devuan Jessie but I will soon migrate them to Devuan Ascii.
Because of the TDE PSB change volume I'm delaying upgrading workstations and laptops from Devuan Jessie and TDE Stable to Ascii until TDE's Ascii support becomes Stable later this summer.
--Mike
On 06/20/2018 01:13 PM, Kate Draven wrote:
Hi Mike, people and others.
LTS has less security support in what way. In general because there are less improvements compared to the none lts? Just to be clear. Thanks Kate
No worry Kate, when something gets broken in stable, old stable and old-old stable it will get fixed, corporations are paying money for support and us lone users make out like bandits. :)
Cheers,
On Wednesday 20 June 2018, William Morder wrote:
Okay, so new thread, and nothing about coffee, chocolate, mythical beasts, religious theories, or the current price of tea in China.
I recently migrated from Debian Jessie to the Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version. My problem is, now I cannot turn off my network, nor control the connection at all. I was using the network-manager-tde package, which has always worked just fine for me. I've tried all the other network managers, and don't like how they behave. In particular, I want to set my network so that it never connects automatically, and will only connect manually.
Also, I would like to be able to switch to another network if I so choose (such as, whenever I clone this system to use on my laptop, and take it to work remotely, like when doing research at the library). I've tried using the iwconfig commands
iwconfig wlan0 txpower on iwconfig wlan0 txpower off
but these currently do nothing. When I do manage to disconnect, then I cannot reconnect at all, not even after reboot, and am left with no alternative but to reinstall my entire system.
This does not change, not even when I reboot, not even when I uninstall (or purge) and reinstall the packages. I've gone through my Linux books, tried searching online, and thus far nobody seems to have my problem.
Also, I need to be able to use macchanger; because I get weird situations where I can browse the web but not check email (almost as though I seem to be using two or more different connections at once); or I can check email (like now), but not browse the web. With macchanger, if I had those problems, I could always disconnect, change my local IP, then reconnect, and suddenly everything was fine again. The same goes for my proxy usage: I have many more connection issues when I do not use a proxy.
One thing I need to do is to disable IPv6. I did some research, and found a reliable way to do this, and my connection immediately improved. Now, however, the same method doesn't seem to work, so I believe it may be that this is part of the problem. (I don't mind the idea of using IPv6, it's just that I don't know it well enough yet, and cannot find a firewall that can adequately deal with it according to my wishes. I want to be able to see my connections in real time, as in Firestarter. A cli firewall that does this, sort of like top, would be ideal.) I also don't mind at all using command-line to control the network, but I like to be able to view the networks within range; this is the only reason that I use a network manager. I've tried pretty much all of the managers: TDEnetworkmanager, Knetworkmanager, wpa_supplicant, Kwifimanager, and of course wicd and its variants. My problem with wicd is that it wants root permissions, then it won't allow me to use it; the only recourse is to enable it to run at startup (by checking all the boxes in sysv-rc-conf), so that I bypass the problem of privileges.
The network manager applet, too, says that I am not authorized to disconnect or connect. This was not a problem before I migrated to Devuan; on the other hand, most of my other problems (mostly minor bugs) seem to have disappeared. For all practical purposes, I cannot use a proxy, nor am I able to do two things at once online. All this was working fine in Debian Jessie, but not since I've gone to Devuan.
Observations and suggestions are welcome. Please feel free to trim down my post to specific points.
If I disappear from the list again for a few days, you'll know why.
Bill
Have you checked things like; firmware, add or removed it. is there something called dkms or the like (no time to look now). Those packages prevented my eth0 from working. Also make sure networkmanager service is running.
All I can think of at the moment.
I'll keep thinking (despite the pain),
Kate
I don't know if these issues are really connected; I only know that they seem to occur together. Feel free to separate the two issues if that is more accurate.
Issue #1 I noticed that my system colors are not applied to some applications. In particular, the Firefox/Iceweasel and Seamonkey browsers. Sometimes when I start up, these take on my KDE4 Plasma color settings (even when KDE4 is not installed); sometimes (maybe one-third to one-half of my installations), everything in the GUI is white, sort of like in Gnome desktops that I've seen. (Again, Gnome is not installed, though I do use some standalone applications.) I can make PaleMoon take on my TDE color scheme settings, and when I uncheck the button that says "apply to non TDE applications", etc., it, too, turns all white like these other apps; however, PaleMoon never takes on the color scheme from the KDE4 Plasma desktop. And then, at other times, after I install I get my TDE settings. (Maybe one out of ten installations, I will have Seamonkey and Firefox/Iceweasel use my TDE color scheme settings.) Then again, sometimes they will use my KDE4 settings. Both are available in my TDE desktop, but only KDE4 settings are available in that desktop.
TDE Trinity Control Center/Colors x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4 System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color settings, just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate that my pretty desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because a white screen triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at night in a dark room. I impose dark screen settings on my default browsers and other applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a practical reason: whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me that I have opened that application as root, so that I am sure to be careful I don't really mess up or delete stuff.
It occurred to me to try to purge the offending applications, then to try to reinstall them from within the KDE4 desktop environment, and to do the same within TDE, but this made no difference. Thus far, my only options are either to live with the lack of color, or to reinstall my system yet again, and hope for the best.
Issue #2 This may or may not be related; it could be a permissions problem. I now find that some of my external hard drives cannot be mounted or used, because I can only access them as root. Even if I wanted to use them as root, it means that I cannot access music files with my media player, for example. Again, this has happened before, though not often, usually after a fresh installation. In the past, it seems the only cure is to reinstall everything. However, since I've not got this Devuan Jessie system working pretty well, I don't want to mess up a good thing, especially if there is an easy fix.
I've already tried changing permissions, and that sort of thing. I am guessing that there might be some kind of config files buried somewhere. I've searched, but thus far I can find nothing.
Bill
Devuan Jessie 8.8.x TDE Trinity 14.0.4
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:17:34 -0700 William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
I don't know if these issues are really connected; I only know that they seem to occur together. Feel free to separate the two issues if that is more accurate.
Issue #1 I noticed that my system colors are not applied to some applications. In particular, the Firefox/Iceweasel and Seamonkey browsers. Sometimes when I start up, these take on my KDE4 Plasma color settings (even when KDE4 is not installed); sometimes (maybe one-third to one-half of my installations), everything in the GUI is white, sort of like in Gnome desktops that I've seen. (Again, Gnome is not installed, though I do use some standalone applications.) I can make PaleMoon take on my TDE color scheme settings, and when I uncheck the button that says "apply to non TDE applications", etc., it, too, turns all white like these other apps; however, PaleMoon never takes on the color scheme from the KDE4 Plasma desktop. And then, at other times, after I install I get my TDE settings. (Maybe one out of ten installations, I will have Seamonkey and Firefox/Iceweasel use my TDE color scheme settings.) Then again, sometimes they will use my KDE4 settings. Both are available in my TDE desktop, but only KDE4 settings are available in that desktop.
Sounds like you're hitting a familiar problem with Linux GUI applications: they're all built with different widget sets, and attempts to transfer the colour schemes for different sets around are fraught.
Currently, there are no less than three versions of QT and two of GTK in common use, and I find the only way to get them to behave themselves is to configure them all separately. Browsers in the Firefox family use GTK2 or GTK3, depending on which browser and which version.
Unfortunately, I never did find a nice GUI configurator for writing system GTK configs without a GTK-based desktop installed. QT3 is configured through TDE, QT4 through KDE4 or the included Trolltech settings widget, and qt5ct works adequately for QT5.
TDE Trinity Control Center/Colors x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4 System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color settings, just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate that my pretty desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because a white screen triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at night in a dark room. I impose dark screen settings on my default browsers and other applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a practical reason: whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me that I have opened that application as root, so that I am sure to be careful I don't really mess up or delete stuff.
Yeah, sounds about right--I've been setting up my desktops with white text on black/blue for more than twenty years for similar reasons.
Try unchecking those two boxes you mention first. Then create a file .gtkrc-2.0 in your user's home directory and put the following in it:
gtk-color-scheme = "bg_color: #000044\nfg_color: #fff\nbase_color: #000\ntext_color: #fff\nselected_bg_color: #0ff\nselected_fg_color: #000\ntooltip_bg_color: #0ff\ntooltip_fg_color: #000"
If that causes an abrupt colour change in your browser chrome, it should be easy enough to work it into a more standard colour scheme by adjusting the hex. If not, we may have a little more work to do (my file is actually a lot more extensive and defines a variation on the standard Industrial style, because that was the easiest way to get usable scrollbars with such dark colours).
Styling GTK3 is not that easy, unfortunately--it took me just under 400 lines of CSS to get something I could live with. I can hand my file over to you to play with if it turns out you need it (the colour information is exposed at the top, so fairly easy to change).
It occurred to me to try to purge the offending applications, then to try to reinstall them from within the KDE4 desktop environment, and to do the same within TDE, but this made no difference. Thus far, my only options are either to live with the lack of color, or to reinstall my system yet again, and hope for the best.
Issue #2 This may or may not be related; it could be a permissions problem. I now find that some of my external hard drives cannot be mounted or used, because I can only access them as root. Even if I wanted to use them as root, it means that I cannot access music files with my media player, for example. Again, this has happened before, though not often, usually after a fresh installation. In the past, it seems the only cure is to reinstall everything. However, since I've not got this Devuan Jessie system working pretty well, I don't want to mess up a good thing, especially if there is an easy fix.
I've already tried changing permissions, and that sort of thing. I am guessing that there might be some kind of config files buried somewhere. I've searched, but thus far I can find nothing.
My first instinct would be to check /etc/fstab for missing "user" options and any odd umasks. Also, udev does funky things with permissions sometimes. Of course, I'm using a different distro without an automounter, so I may be way off-base.
E. Liddell
On 2018-06-22 16:30:09 E. Liddell wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:17:34 -0700
William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
I don't know if these issues are really connected; I only know that they seem to occur together. Feel free to separate the two issues if that is more accurate.
Issue #1 I noticed that my system colors are not applied to some applications. In particular, the Firefox/Iceweasel and Seamonkey browsers. Sometimes when I start up, these take on my KDE4 Plasma color settings (even when KDE4 is not installed); sometimes (maybe one-third to one-half of my installations), everything in the GUI is white, sort of like in Gnome desktops that I've seen. (Again, Gnome is not installed, though I do use some standalone applications.) I can make PaleMoon take on my TDE color scheme settings, and when I uncheck the button that says "apply to non TDE applications", etc., it, too, turns all white like these other apps; however, PaleMoon never takes on the color scheme from the KDE4 Plasma desktop. And then, at other times, after I install I get my TDE settings. (Maybe one out of ten installations, I will have Seamonkey and Firefox/Iceweasel use my TDE color scheme settings.) Then again, sometimes they will use my KDE4 settings. Both are available in my TDE desktop, but only KDE4 settings are available in that desktop.
Sounds like you're hitting a familiar problem with Linux GUI applications: they're all built with different widget sets, and attempts to transfer the colour schemes for different sets around are fraught.
Currently, there are no less than three versions of QT and two of GTK in common use, and I find the only way to get them to behave themselves is to configure them all separately. Browsers in the Firefox family use GTK2 or GTK3, depending on which browser and which version.
Unfortunately, I never did find a nice GUI configurator for writing system GTK configs without a GTK-based desktop installed. QT3 is configured through TDE, QT4 through KDE4 or the included Trolltech settings widget, and qt5ct works adequately for QT5.
I've used the gnome-tweak-tool for this (in my case to get rid of the yucky sans-serif fonts). On the Appearance tab there's an option called Global Dark Theme. Also, in Firefox, I've installed a theme called Compact Dark, which helps, too. There are numerous other dark themes for Firefox, and probably for Chrome and Opera, too.
Leslie
TDE Trinity Control Center/Colors x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4 System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color settings, just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate that my pretty desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because a white screen triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at night in a dark room. I impose dark screen settings on my default browsers and other applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a practical reason: whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me that I have opened that application as root, so that I am sure to be careful I don't really mess up or delete stuff.
Yeah, sounds about right--I've been setting up my desktops with white text on black/blue for more than twenty years for similar reasons.
Try unchecking those two boxes you mention first. Then create a file .gtkrc-2.0 in your user's home directory and put the following in it:
gtk-color-scheme = "bg_color: #000044\nfg_color: #fff\nbase_color: #000\ntext_color: #fff\nselected_bg_color: #0ff\nselected_fg_color: #000\ntooltip_bg_color: #0ff\ntooltip_fg_color: #000"
If that causes an abrupt colour change in your browser chrome, it should be easy enough to work it into a more standard colour scheme by adjusting the hex. If not, we may have a little more work to do (my file is actually a lot more extensive and defines a variation on the standard Industrial style, because that was the easiest way to get usable scrollbars with such dark colours).
Styling GTK3 is not that easy, unfortunately--it took me just under 400 lines of CSS to get something I could live with. I can hand my file over to you to play with if it turns out you need it (the colour information is exposed at the top, so fairly easy to change).
It occurred to me to try to purge the offending applications, then to try to reinstall them from within the KDE4 desktop environment, and to do the same within TDE, but this made no difference. Thus far, my only options are either to live with the lack of color, or to reinstall my system yet again, and hope for the best.
Issue #2 This may or may not be related; it could be a permissions problem. I now find that some of my external hard drives cannot be mounted or used, because I can only access them as root. Even if I wanted to use them as root, it means that I cannot access music files with my media player, for example. Again, this has happened before, though not often, usually after a fresh installation. In the past, it seems the only cure is to reinstall everything. However, since I've not got this Devuan Jessie system working pretty well, I don't want to mess up a good thing, especially if there is an easy fix.
I've already tried changing permissions, and that sort of thing. I am guessing that there might be some kind of config files buried somewhere. I've searched, but thus far I can find nothing.
My first instinct would be to check /etc/fstab for missing "user" options and any odd umasks. Also, udev does funky things with permissions sometimes. Of course, I'm using a different distro without an automounter, so I may be way off-base.
E. Liddell
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On Friday 22 June 2018 14:30:09 E. Liddell wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:17:34 -0700
William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
I don't know if these issues are really connected; I only know that they seem to occur together. Feel free to separate the two issues if that is more accurate.
Issue #1 I noticed that my system colors are not applied to some applications. In particular, the Firefox/Iceweasel and Seamonkey browsers. Sometimes when I start up, these take on my KDE4 Plasma color settings (even when KDE4 is not installed); sometimes (maybe one-third to one-half of my installations), everything in the GUI is white, sort of like in Gnome desktops that I've seen. (Again, Gnome is not installed, though I do use some standalone applications.) I can make PaleMoon take on my TDE color scheme settings, and when I uncheck the button that says "apply to non TDE applications", etc., it, too, turns all white like these other apps; however, PaleMoon never takes on the color scheme from the KDE4 Plasma desktop. And then, at other times, after I install I get my TDE settings. (Maybe one out of ten installations, I will have Seamonkey and Firefox/Iceweasel use my TDE color scheme settings.) Then again, sometimes they will use my KDE4 settings. Both are available in my TDE desktop, but only KDE4 settings are available in that desktop.
Sounds like you're hitting a familiar problem with Linux GUI applications: they're all built with different widget sets, and attempts to transfer the colour schemes for different sets around are fraught.
Currently, there are no less than three versions of QT and two of GTK in common use, and I find the only way to get them to behave themselves is to configure them all separately. Browsers in the Firefox family use GTK2 or GTK3, depending on which browser and which version.
Unfortunately, I never did find a nice GUI configurator for writing system GTK configs without a GTK-based desktop installed. QT3 is configured through TDE, QT4 through KDE4 or the included Trolltech settings widget, and qt5ct works adequately for QT5.
TDE Trinity Control Center/Colors x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4 System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color settings, just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate that my pretty desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because a white screen triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at night in a dark room. I impose dark screen settings on my default browsers and other applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a practical reason: whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me that I have opened that application as root, so that I am sure to be careful I don't really mess up or delete stuff.
Yeah, sounds about right--I've been setting up my desktops with white text on black/blue for more than twenty years for similar reasons.
Try unchecking those two boxes you mention first. Then create a file .gtkrc-2.0 in your user's home directory and put the following in it:
I already did that. I checked and unchecked them numerous times; checked one but not the other, restarted after changing them, etc.; but no changes.
gtk-color-scheme = "bg_color: #000044\nfg_color: #fff\nbase_color: #000\ntext_color: #fff\nselected_bg_color: #0ff\nselected_fg_color: #000\ntooltip_bg_color: #0ff\ntooltip_fg_color: #000"
If that causes an abrupt colour change in your browser chrome, it should be easy enough to work it into a more standard colour scheme by adjusting the hex. If not, we may have a little more work to do (my file is actually a lot more extensive and defines a variation on the standard Industrial style, because that was the easiest way to get usable scrollbars with such dark colours).
Styling GTK3 is not that easy, unfortunately--it took me just under 400 lines of CSS to get something I could live with. I can hand my file over to you to play with if it turns out you need it (the colour information is exposed at the top, so fairly easy to change).
Yes, please. From what you have given me here, it looks like something I could use. I could just change it to suit my own needs. And 400 lines doesn't scare me.
It occurred to me to try to purge the offending applications, then to try to reinstall them from within the KDE4 desktop environment, and to do the same within TDE, but this made no difference. Thus far, my only options are either to live with the lack of color, or to reinstall my system yet again, and hope for the best.
Issue #2 This may or may not be related; it could be a permissions problem. I now find that some of my external hard drives cannot be mounted or used, because I can only access them as root. Even if I wanted to use them as root, it means that I cannot access music files with my media player, for example. Again, this has happened before, though not often, usually after a fresh installation. In the past, it seems the only cure is to reinstall everything. However, since I've not [correction, *now*] got this Devuan Jessie system working pretty well, I don't want to mess up a good thing, especially if there is an easy fix.
I've already tried changing permissions, and that sort of thing. I am guessing that there might be some kind of config files buried somewhere. I've searched, but thus far I can find nothing.
My first instinct would be to check /etc/fstab for missing "user" options and any odd umasks. Also, udev does funky things with permissions sometimes. Of course, I'm using a different distro without an automounter, so I may be way off-base.
E. Liddell
Thanks, will try these suggestions. And I would like to play with that config file of yours that you mentioned. I am pretty good at plagiarizing code.
Bill
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 16:50:26 -0700 William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
On Friday 22 June 2018 14:30:09 E. Liddell wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:17:34 -0700
William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
TDE Trinity Control Center/Colors x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4 System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color settings, just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate that my pretty desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because a white screen triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at night in a dark room. I impose dark screen settings on my default browsers and other applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a practical reason: whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me that I have opened that application as root, so that I am sure to be careful I don't really mess up or delete stuff.
Yeah, sounds about right--I've been setting up my desktops with white text on black/blue for more than twenty years for similar reasons.
Try unchecking those two boxes you mention first. Then create a file .gtkrc-2.0 in your user's home directory and put the following in it:
I already did that. I checked and unchecked them numerous times; checked one but not the other, restarted after changing them, etc.; but no changes.
What those checkboxes do (or at least, what the TDE one used to do) is write an additional configuration for GTK widgets that tries to give them similar settings to your QT widgets. Unchecking them should cause the system to revert to the normal GTK theming system, which can then be messed with to produce more reliable results.
gtk-color-scheme = "bg_color: #000044\nfg_color: #fff\nbase_color: #000\ntext_color: #fff\nselected_bg_color: #0ff\nselected_fg_color: #000\ntooltip_bg_color: #0ff\ntooltip_fg_color: #000"
If that causes an abrupt colour change in your browser chrome, it should be easy enough to work it into a more standard colour scheme by adjusting the hex. If not, we may have a little more work to do (my file is actually a lot more extensive and defines a variation on the standard Industrial style, because that was the easiest way to get usable scrollbars with such dark colours).
Styling GTK3 is not that easy, unfortunately--it took me just under 400 lines of CSS to get something I could live with. I can hand my file over to you to play with if it turns out you need it (the colour information is exposed at the top, so fairly easy to change).
Yes, please. From what you have given me here, it looks like something I could use. I could just change it to suit my own needs. And 400 lines doesn't scare me.
Okay, I've attached both my GTK2 and GTK3 style files. I also tossed in a screenshot showing what Seamonkey looks like when themed with this mess (the screwed-up tab bar is due to a malfunctioning browser extension, though). I guarantee it is not white. ;)
.gtkrc-2.0 is a GTK2 style. Pale Moon (as of 27.9.3) and SeaMonkey (as of 2.49.7.0) still use GTK2. Place this file in your user's home directory. Unfortunately, it is not neat or tidy and has colour definitions scattered all over the file. It also needs the Industrial GTK2 "engine" in order to function properly. For me, Industrial is located in the package x11-themes/gtk-engines-2.20.2. I don't know where it may be for your distro.
gtk.css is a GTK3 style, and you would place it in .config/gtk-3.0/ . It's somewhat more neatly written, with all the colour definitions at the top. The style is mildly skeuomorphic if functioning properly (slightly raised borders around buttons, etc.) I have a separate settings.ini file in that directory, but I don't think it's relevant.
Oh, and if you have any other files of the form .gtkrc-2.0-x or similar in your home directory, rename them to get them out of the way.
E. Liddell
On Saturday 23 June 2018 15:46:39 E. Liddell wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 16:50:26 -0700
William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
On Friday 22 June 2018 14:30:09 E. Liddell wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:17:34 -0700
William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
TDE Trinity Control Center/Colors x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4 System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color settings, just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate that my pretty desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because a white screen triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at night in a dark room. I impose dark screen settings on my default browsers and other applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a practical reason: whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me that I have opened that application as root, so that I am sure to be careful I don't really mess up or delete stuff.
Yeah, sounds about right--I've been setting up my desktops with white text on black/blue for more than twenty years for similar reasons.
Try unchecking those two boxes you mention first. Then create a file .gtkrc-2.0 in your user's home directory and put the following in it:
I already did that. I checked and unchecked them numerous times; checked one but not the other, restarted after changing them, etc.; but no changes.
What those checkboxes do (or at least, what the TDE one used to do) is write an additional configuration for GTK widgets that tries to give them similar settings to your QT widgets. Unchecking them should cause the system to revert to the normal GTK theming system, which can then be messed with to produce more reliable results.
gtk-color-scheme = "bg_color: #000044\nfg_color: #fff\nbase_color: #000\ntext_color: #fff\nselected_bg_color: #0ff\nselected_fg_color: #000\ntooltip_bg_color: #0ff\ntooltip_fg_color: #000"
If that causes an abrupt colour change in your browser chrome, it should be easy enough to work it into a more standard colour scheme by adjusting the hex. If not, we may have a little more work to do (my file is actually a lot more extensive and defines a variation on the standard Industrial style, because that was the easiest way to get usable scrollbars with such dark colours).
Styling GTK3 is not that easy, unfortunately--it took me just under 400 lines of CSS to get something I could live with. I can hand my file over to you to play with if it turns out you need it (the colour information is exposed at the top, so fairly easy to change).
Yes, please. From what you have given me here, it looks like something I could use. I could just change it to suit my own needs. And 400 lines doesn't scare me.
Okay, I've attached both my GTK2 and GTK3 style files. I also tossed in a screenshot showing what Seamonkey looks like when themed with this mess (the screwed-up tab bar is due to a malfunctioning browser extension, though). I guarantee it is not white. ;)
.gtkrc-2.0 is a GTK2 style. Pale Moon (as of 27.9.3) and SeaMonkey (as of 2.49.7.0) still use GTK2. Place this file in your user's home directory. Unfortunately, it is not neat or tidy and has colour definitions scattered all over the file. It also needs the Industrial GTK2 "engine" in order to function properly. For me, Industrial is located in the package x11-themes/gtk-engines-2.20.2. I don't know where it may be for your distro.
gtk.css is a GTK3 style, and you would place it in .config/gtk-3.0/ . It's somewhat more neatly written, with all the colour definitions at the top. The style is mildly skeuomorphic if functioning properly (slightly raised borders around buttons, etc.) I have a separate settings.ini file in that directory, but I don't think it's relevant.
Oh, and if you have any other files of the form .gtkrc-2.0-x or similar in your home directory, rename them to get them out of the way.
E. Liddell
Thanks, I do appreciate it. I would hate to do a reinstallation for only some silly glitches. And messing round with your config files will save me a lot of time. I appreciate your hard work, and sharing it. You will get your reward in heaven, if not on earth.
;-)
Bill
On 06/22/2018 09:17 AM, William Morder wrote:
I don't know if these issues are really connected; I only know that they seem to occur together. Feel free to separate the two issues if that is more accurate.
Issue #1 I noticed that my system colors are not applied to some applications. In particular, the Firefox/Iceweasel and Seamonkey browsers. Sometimes when I start up, these take on my KDE4 Plasma color settings (even when KDE4 is not installed); sometimes (maybe one-third to one-half of my installations), everything in the GUI is white, sort of like in Gnome desktops that I've seen. (Again, Gnome is not installed, though I do use some standalone applications.) I can make PaleMoon take on my TDE color scheme settings, and when I uncheck the button that says "apply to non TDE applications", etc., it, too, turns all white like these other apps; however, PaleMoon never takes on the color scheme from the KDE4 Plasma desktop. And then, at other times, after I install I get my TDE settings. (Maybe one out of ten installations, I will have Seamonkey and Firefox/Iceweasel use my TDE color scheme settings.) Then again, sometimes they will use my KDE4 settings. Both are available in my TDE desktop, but only KDE4 settings are available in that desktop.
TDE Trinity Control Center/Colors x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4 System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color settings, just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate that my pretty desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because a white screen triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at night in a dark room. I impose dark screen settings on my default browsers and other applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a practical reason: whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me that I have opened that application as root, so that I am sure to be careful I don't really mess up or delete stuff.
It occurred to me to try to purge the offending applications, then to try to reinstall them from within the KDE4 desktop environment, and to do the same within TDE, but this made no difference. Thus far, my only options are either to live with the lack of color, or to reinstall my system yet again, and hope for the best.
You're holding kde4 apps? You should get rid of them and install tde apps. You should get rid of hidden system settings in your home too, except for mail, browser and collections. And after you remove that stuff install and run 'upgrade-system', it will run dist-upgrade and deborphan. You can do a synaptic search for kde and remove them all, just don't remove the trinity stuff, they are easy to spot. Start out clean and build a solid system that you will want to use for the next 2 plus years.
Issue #2 This may or may not be related; it could be a permissions problem. I now find that some of my external hard drives cannot be mounted or used, because I can only access them as root. Even if I wanted to use them as root, it means that I cannot access music files with my media player, for example. Again, this has happened before, though not often, usually after a fresh installation. In the past, it seems the only cure is to reinstall everything. However, since I've not got this Devuan Jessie system working pretty well, I don't want to mess up a good thing, especially if there is an easy fix.
I've already tried changing permissions, and that sort of thing. I am guessing that there might be some kind of config files buried somewhere. I've searched, but thus far I can find nothing.
You should be able to solve that by editing fstab, add the drives there and then use kwikdisk/kdf-trinity and or konqueror-trinity to mount, need help with fstab, let me know, also you Bill are welcome to send me private email.
Devuan Jessie 8.8.x TDE Trinity 14.0.4
Welcome to Devuan Jessie, it's almost as good as Wheezy. ;) https://i.paste.pics/3AU9S.png Wednesday I put this Devuan Jessie+Trinity together: https://i.paste.pics/3AU80.png
Just got a Brother printer-scanner-copier-fax combo, model is MFC-495CW, so if anybody has comments or recommendations from experience, I am all ears.
Here is my model:
https://support.brother.com/g/b/spec.aspx?c=us&lang=en&prod=mfc495cw...
I don't have a lot of money to spend (much less to waste) on printer cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them, the ink dried up! I don't want to go through that again.)
I managed to download the drivers for Debian, the product manual, researched everything I could think of, but now it comes to spending my last few bucks (literally) on the second-most expensive substance* known in human history, so I hesitate before using my debit card.
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
Brother, of course, "strongly recommends" not to use third-party, or refillable cartridges, etc., but I don't have a warranty, anyway, as I got this thing used.
Has anybody else tried the third-party replacement cartridges or refillables?
I'll have more questions about set-up, I'm sure, once I get my cartridges. Everything seems to work fine, except for no ink.
Bill
On 06/27/2018 09:53 AM, William Morder wrote:
I don't have a lot of money to spend (much less to waste) on printer cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them, the ink dried up! I don't want to go through that again.)
[...]
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
My laser printers print for about $0.02 per page, including paper. What does the cheapest inkjet cost per page? And what does it cost per page if the ink dries up before you use it? Toner will still be just fine in 10 or 20 years if you haven't used it yet, whether in or out of the printer.
If you want to save money on printing, get a laser printer.
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 10:23:02 Dan Youngquist wrote:
On 06/27/2018 09:53 AM, William Morder wrote:
I don't have a lot of money to spend (much less to waste) on printer cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them, the ink dried up! I don't want to go through that again.)
[...]
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
My laser printers print for about $0.02 per page, including paper. What does the cheapest inkjet cost per page? And what does it cost per page if the ink dries up before you use it? Toner will still be just fine in 10 or 20 years if you haven't used it yet, whether in or out of the printer.
If you want to save money on printing, get a laser printer.
When one has literally no money to spend, one must make do with what is available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that is not an option.
There are refillable cartridges, and refill bottles. I doubt that they can dry up. My old HP cartridges dried up because they sat in a storage space for a couple years. These won't dry up (at least, not so fast), because I will use them now.
I'm only asking if anybody else has tried these refillables. I don't want advice that I *ought* to buy a laser printer, when I cannot do so.
Bill
Last time I used refillable cartridges was 20 years ago. I stopped because of all the leaks made a mess of everything. Hopefully they are better now.
On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 1:36 PM, William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 10:23:02 Dan Youngquist wrote:
On 06/27/2018 09:53 AM, William Morder wrote:
I don't have a lot of money to spend (much less to waste) on printer cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them,
the
ink dried up! I don't want to go through that again.)
[...]
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
My laser printers print for about $0.02 per page, including paper. What does the cheapest inkjet cost per page? And what does it cost per page
if
the ink dries up before you use it? Toner will still be just fine in 10
or
20 years if you haven't used it yet, whether in or out of the printer.
If you want to save money on printing, get a laser printer.
When one has literally no money to spend, one must make do with what is available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that is not an option.
There are refillable cartridges, and refill bottles. I doubt that they can dry up. My old HP cartridges dried up because they sat in a storage space for a couple years. These won't dry up (at least, not so fast), because I will use them now.
I'm only asking if anybody else has tried these refillables. I don't want advice that I *ought* to buy a laser printer, when I cannot do so.
Bill
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William Morder wrote:
When one has literally no money to spend, one must make do with what is available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that is not an option.
then go to the copy shop, you can print for about 5cent
There are refillable cartridges, and refill bottles. I doubt that they can dry up. My old HP cartridges dried up because they sat in a storage space for a couple years. These won't dry up (at least, not so fast), because I will use them now.
This is BS. Just compare cartridge price/printer price for ink and you'll see that in 2 years you spent more on cartridges
I'm only asking if anybody else has tried these refillables. I don't want advice that I *ought* to buy a laser printer, when I cannot do so.
Yes, they are complete BS - forget it!
Alternative could be dot matrix printer (it is a bit noisy), higher price, but low material cost. I bought one in 1996 and it is still working.
I bought HP 5L LJ in 1999 and I threw it away last year - it was not worth repearing. I bought two cartridges for €70,- each - makes 7€ per year for the cartridge. Just calculate total cost + material cost per intended period of use. You'll notice that prices have gone high in the past year, but most people can not calculate any way.
I now bought a HP 402dn which prints 40 times faster than the 5L and cost 200,-. The cartridge would cost 100,- in 5-10y, so I guess I will have avg. cost of 30,- per year - this is definitely not much. There are also cheaper LJ printers, but I like HP and can write it off anyway.
If you don't have money - earn money and buy something good instead a cheap sh*t that will give you headache - or just leave it.
regards
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 10:52:04 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
When one has literally no money to spend, one must make do with what is available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that is not an option.
then go to the copy shop, you can print for about 5cent
There are refillable cartridges, and refill bottles. I doubt that they can dry up. My old HP cartridges dried up because they sat in a storage space for a couple years. These won't dry up (at least, not so fast), because I will use them now.
This is BS. Just compare cartridge price/printer price for ink and you'll see that in 2 years you spent more on cartridges
I'm only asking if anybody else has tried these refillables. I don't want advice that I *ought* to buy a laser printer, when I cannot do so.
Yes, they are complete BS - forget it!
Alternative could be dot matrix printer (it is a bit noisy), higher price, but low material cost. I bought one in 1996 and it is still working.
I bought HP 5L LJ in 1999 and I threw it away last year - it was not worth repearing. I bought two cartridges for €70,- each - makes 7€ per year for the cartridge. Just calculate total cost + material cost per intended period of use. You'll notice that prices have gone high in the past year, but most people can not calculate any way.
I now bought a HP 402dn which prints 40 times faster than the 5L and cost 200,-. The cartridge would cost 100,- in 5-10y, so I guess I will have avg. cost of 30,- per year - this is definitely not much. There are also cheaper LJ printers, but I like HP and can write it off anyway.
If you don't have money - earn money and buy something good instead a cheap sh*t that will give you headache - or just leave it.
regards
The only way that I can earn money (real money) is by writing, which means that I need to be able to print out.
I hear what you are saying, but I guess we can stop this thread now, because what people are saying is irrelevant to my situation.
Bill
William Morder wrote:
The only way that I can earn money (real money) is by writing, which means that I need to be able to print out.
Honestly I am not sure one earns real money by writing and that printer is required for this nowdays. Writing, reading degraded so much in the past 20y, fake news and BS swamped the media and the internet ... Meanwhile I prefer reading books published before 1918.
Where are you located BTW?
regards
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 17:50:12 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
The only way that I can earn money (real money) is by writing, which means that I need to be able to print out.
Honestly I am not sure one earns real money by writing and that printer is required for this nowdays. Writing, reading degraded so much in the past 20y, fake news and BS swamped the media and the internet ... Meanwhile I prefer reading books published before 1918.
Where are you located BTW?
regards
I don't have an exact date as my cut-off date, but it does seem that (as I've been told by others) I only read books that are otherwise unknown to living human readers. Also, I don't know if I will make money directly by these books, but there are many indirect rewards that come as a result of publishing, and I am trying to make a book that is unlike anything in its field (or fields).
Already said this earlier, but I'm in San Francisco, possibly the most expensive place to live on earth. And I don't work in tech, and am a generation older than the "typical" or stereotypical residents of this city.
On the bright side, though, there are about 150 book publishers in the Bay area.
Bill
On 06/27/2018 10:36 AM, William Morder wrote:
When one has literally no money to spend, one must make do with what is available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that is not an option.
Good point. I've bought more than one good laser printer at garage sales for $3-$10, and they usually have 1000 pages or so of toner in them. I haven't bought a new printer in over 20 years. Check your local Craigslist, or post a wanted ad there, and I bet you can find one for way less than the $40 you're thinking of spending on ink.
Older HP lasers are very cheap to run, and almost all work very well with Linux.
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 10:55:33 Dan Youngquist wrote:
On 06/27/2018 10:36 AM, William Morder wrote:
When one has literally no money to spend, one must make do with what is available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that is not an option.
Good point. I've bought more than one good laser printer at garage sales for $3-$10, and they usually have 1000 pages or so of toner in them. I haven't bought a new printer in over 20 years. Check your local Craigslist, or post a wanted ad there, and I bet you can find one for way less than the $40 you're thinking of spending on ink.
Older HP lasers are very cheap to run, and almost all work very well with Linux.
That is a useful suggestion, but I must put it off for some future world, not for the present. I could maybe find one used. I looked for used printers online, but couldn't find any in that range. However, laser printers are coming down in price. Maybe not this year, but next year, or the next, I could think about buying a laser.
For the present, though, I must make do with what I have at hand. I only have about $9 to spare every month, so I have to make my best guess about what will get me through the next year or so with the inkjet printer that I actually have, not one that I don't have and can't afford.
Bill
William Morder wrote:
For the present, though, I must make do with what I have at hand. I only have about $9 to spare every month, so I have to make my best guess about what will get me through the next year or so with the inkjet printer that I actually have, not one that I don't have and can't afford.
Don't you have some good friend that could print it for you? Each company can write off the material and the cost for printing, so it costs nothing. Unfort. I am too far away from you, but I would let you print if you were here around, unless you print 2000 pages at once.
Option would be also to look for used dot matrix as they are cheep and reliable. You can print there your drafts, while saving ink for the final version you would send to the publisher.
regards
On Thursday 28 June 2018 15:04:52 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
For the present, though, I must make do with what I have at hand. I only have about $9 to spare every month, so I have to make my best guess about what will get me through the next year or so with the inkjet printer that I actually have, not one that I don't have and can't afford.
Don't you have some good friend that could print it for you? Each company can write off the material and the cost for printing, so it costs nothing. Unfort. I am too far away from you, but I would let you print if you were here around, unless you print 2000 pages at once.
Option would be also to look for used dot matrix as they are cheep and reliable. You can print there your drafts, while saving ink for the final version you would send to the publisher.
regards
This is the thread that will not die!
When I am in the throes of revision or layout, I can print out sometimes 30-50 pp. a day, and even in an average week, 100 pp. is probably about average. So, no, I don't have a good friend who will do it for free, and paying even 5 cents per page is not feasible.
Even with some other sort of writing that just flows out of me, I need to be able to see a hard copy for when I revise. My occasional non-fiction pieces for newspapers or magazines seldom run more than 1000-2000 words, and even then I like to print out for revision.
These works-in-progress contain, in parts, intricate arguments, and when I keep trying to revise on a screen, it all turns to a hopeless mush. When I have a hard copy, I can lay out the pages before me, and better see how to re-arrange and revise. (Maybe this comes from writing habits which I developed back in the days before word processors; I still remember when it was a new thing to be able to use a typewriter.) When I studied computer technology in school, we spent some weeks learning how to create programs using IBM punchcards, which we then ran through a conveyor belt, and it turned on a light bulb. That will give you some idea of what kind of dinosaur I am. If I could, I would chisel my words into stone, as it would be more gratifying as a permanent creation.
A dot matrix would be great, if I were only printing out, but I also want to use the scanner to grab illustrations from various books; books that I cannot find otherwise in libraries, and which are sometimes difficult to find even in digital sources.
It could well be that I will live to regret my choice in this matter, but then I can list it among my bad experiences, or lessons I have yet failed to learn. Anyway, the choice is made, the order has been sent, so now we can kill this thread.
Thanks for the offer of using your printer. I will immediately drop everything, and fly to wherever it is that you live (France?), in order to save myself pennies per page. (It all adds up!) However, I expect that there will be a veritable Rabelaisian orgy of food, wine, discussion of old books, and the noble herb Pantagruelion, as I cannot write without sustenance.
Bill
late to the conversation..but..I buy my ink cartridges from LD products, about $7 for HP OfficeJet Pro, and HP 950.
Greg
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 08:53:30 William Morder wrote:
Just got a Brother printer-scanner-copier-fax combo, model is MFC-495CW, so if anybody has comments or recommendations from experience, I am all ears.
Here is my model:
https://support.brother.com/g/b/spec.aspx?c=us&lang=en&prod=mfc495cw...
I don't have a lot of money to spend (much less to waste) on printer cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them, the ink dried up! I don't want to go through that again.)
I managed to download the drivers for Debian, the product manual, researched everything I could think of, but now it comes to spending my last few bucks (literally) on the second-most expensive substance* known in human history, so I hesitate before using my debit card.
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
Brother, of course, "strongly recommends" not to use third-party, or refillable cartridges, etc., but I don't have a warranty, anyway, as I got this thing used.
Has anybody else tried the third-party replacement cartridges or refillables?
I'll have more questions about set-up, I'm sure, once I get my cartridges. Everything seems to work fine, except for no ink.
Bill
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On Thursday 28 June 2018 14:37:45 Greg Madden wrote:
late to the conversation..but..I buy my ink cartridges from LD products, about $7 for HP OfficeJet Pro, and HP 950.
Greg
Thanks much! It's all grist for the mill.
Bill
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 08:53:30 William Morder wrote:
Just got a Brother printer-scanner-copier-fax combo, model is MFC-495CW, so if anybody has comments or recommendations from experience, I am all ears.
Here is my model:
https://support.brother.com/g/b/spec.aspx?c=us&lang=en&prod=mfc495cw...
I don't have a lot of money to spend (much less to waste) on printer cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them, the ink dried up! I don't want to go through that again.)
I managed to download the drivers for Debian, the product manual, researched everything I could think of, but now it comes to spending my last few bucks (literally) on the second-most expensive substance* known in human history, so I hesitate before using my debit card.
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
Brother, of course, "strongly recommends" not to use third-party, or refillable cartridges, etc., but I don't have a warranty, anyway, as I got this thing used.
Has anybody else tried the third-party replacement cartridges or refillables?
I'll have more questions about set-up, I'm sure, once I get my cartridges. Everything seems to work fine, except for no ink.
Bill
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Does anybody know why aptoncd rejects all TDE-Trinity packages? I am running Devuan Jessie (or sometimes, Debian Jessie ...).
I have no problem with other Debian/Devuan packages; I can even get it to accept the odd older package from Wheezy). In the past, when I experimented with trying to burn aptoncd discs, I discovered that I could not burn (for example) discs for Kubuntu Precise while running Kubuntu Hardy, because the system interpreted all packages as intended for Hardy. I even changed my apt sources.list to Precise repositories, thinking I might fool the system, but this didn't work, either.
So I thought it would be no problem to burn Trinity packages for my current system, as everything runs on Jessie. I suppose it is not too inconvenient to install from an external drive using dpkg, but I would prefer to keep my packages on discs, as it makes installation and reinstallation faster and more reliable for my situation.
Thanks for any help.
Bill
Am Freitag 27 Juli 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Does anybody know why aptoncd rejects all TDE-Trinity packages? I am running Devuan Jessie (or sometimes, Debian Jessie ...).
What do you mean by "reject"? What error message do you get?
By the way, aptoncd has been removed from Debian, see: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=885946 aptoncd -- RoQA; unmaintained; not in testing for 2.5 years
The Website says "Status: Pre-Alpha" and "This project has no files." See: https://sourceforge.net/projects/aptoncd/files/
The latest news on http://aptoncd.sourceforge.net/ are from: 2007.03.14
This tool seems to be unmaintained and not developed since many years. It's probably broken, I think.
Kind regards, Stefan
On Friday 27 July 2018 09:18:50 Stefan Krusche wrote:
Am Freitag 27 Juli 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Does anybody know why aptoncd rejects all TDE-Trinity packages? I am running Devuan Jessie (or sometimes, Debian Jessie ...).
What do you mean by "reject"? What error message do you get?
I will run it again and copy the error message.
By the way, aptoncd has been removed from Debian, see: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=885946 aptoncd -- RoQA; unmaintained; not in testing for 2.5 years
Huh ... I downloaded it from the Debian Jessie repositories. I will look into it. I need some kind of solution like it, so that I can install when I don't have Internet access.
The Website says "Status: Pre-Alpha" and "This project has no files." See: https://sourceforge.net/projects/aptoncd/files/
The latest news on http://aptoncd.sourceforge.net/ are from: 2007.03.14
This tool seems to be unmaintained and not developed since many years. It's probably broken, I think.
Kind regards, Stefan
Actually, my ideal solution would be to use flash drives as my personal repositories. (That way, I don't keep wasting DVDs and CDs.) Somehow or other, I got that trick working with Kubuntu Hardy many years. I just set up the address of the drive with the prefix "deb" or "deb-src" and it worked; but now I can't get it going.
I downloaded the DVD images of Debian packages, but apt will not recognize them when I try to add them as sources.
Bill
Has anybody else had this problem? On reboots I started getting an error message in the startup shell (never getting to the login screen):
"Failed to create secure directory
//.config/pulse
I searched the forums, tried various solutions, and eventually just purged everything possible that I could find connected to pulse. (I always preferred ALSA, anyway.) Some Trinity packages seem to depend on pulse or pulse libraries, though, so I wonder if it's possible to get rid of everything pulse without breaking my system.
On a side note, I have similar problems with VLC. I cannot actually *use* it, as it crashes every time. I have made do with smplayer, which is okay, I guess, but I still miss the old VLC. When I try to uninstall or purge VLC, however, I find that it would also uninstall practically all my KDE and TDE packages.
I don't know if the two are related, but if I am not using them, or they cause problems, then I'd like to get rid of them completely.
All help or observations are welcome.
Bill
On Wed August 1 2018 21:21:32 William Morder wrote:
Has anybody else had this problem? On reboots I started getting an error message in the startup shell (never getting to the login screen):
Assuming that you have shadow passwords enabled please post the output of "grep root /etc/passwd".
If you don't have shadow passwords please either sanitize the above output before posting or else post "finger root".
Please repeat the above for the user you are trying to run vlc with.
"Failed to create secure directory
//.config/pulse
Odd. Instead of "//" I would have expected a user's home path.
I searched the forums, tried various solutions, and eventually just purged everything possible that I could find connected to pulse. (I always preferred ALSA, anyway.) Some Trinity packages seem to depend on pulse or pulse libraries, though, so I wonder if it's possible to get rid of everything pulse without breaking my system.
On a side note, I have similar problems with VLC. I cannot actually *use* it, as it crashes every time. I have made do with smplayer, which is okay, I guess, but I still miss the old VLC. When I try to uninstall or purge VLC, however, I find that it would also uninstall practically all my KDE and TDE packages.
I don't know if the two are related, but if I am not using them, or they cause problems, then I'd like to get rid of them completely.
All help or observations are welcome.
Please post the (sanitized if necessary) output of "grep audio /etc/group" and of "ls -Rl /dev/snd".
You've made a lot of changes to your system that you've mentioned on this list including removing packages and (IIRC) clobbering file permissions. This makes it hard to diagnose problems with your configuration.
Please post the output of "dpkg -l | cat" and I'll see if it looks feasible to get any of my test boxes somewhere near your current load.
--Mike
William Morder composed on 2018-08-01 21:21 (UTC-0700):
I wonder if it's possible to get rid of everything > pulse without breaking my system.
Not if you want sound from any version of Firefox less than around 2 years old.
On Wednesday 01 August 2018 21:54:22 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-08-01 21:21 (UTC-0700):
I wonder if it's possible to get rid of everything > pulse without breaking my system.
Not if you want sound from any version of Firefox less than around 2 years old.
I don't use sound in any of my browsers. I don't use "live" content, but rather download it and watch or listen on a media player.
Anyway, my browsers are the newest available in Debian Jessie.
However, it seems like pulse is getting forced on us, like it or not. Or is this not so?
Bill
William Morder wrote:
However, it seems like pulse is getting forced on us, like it or not. Or is this not so?
It happened many moons ago already.
youmust know pulse is session based, so it starts with the session. As Mike Bird said, the home path of the user is missing for some reason.
You can try creating new user and see if it works there. this will help to narrow down the problem
regards
On Thursday 02 August 2018 11:53:49 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
However, it seems like pulse is getting forced on us, like it or not. Or is this not so?
It happened many moons ago already.
youmust know pulse is session based, so it starts with the session. As Mike Bird said, the home path of the user is missing for some reason.
You can try creating new user and see if it works there. this will help to narrow down the problem
regards
Sorry to vanish in mid-thread; a combination of this ongoing problem, which forces me to reinstall my system every other day, and personal stuff in the real world.
Anyway ... if this reads like a novel, I plead not guilty by reason of insanity, or poetic license. I am not a geek, so please bear with me.
I did read the other comments; however, my home folder has remained essentially the same through several different operating systems, from the KDE3 desktop with PC Linux in about 2006, through Hardy Heron 8.04 Kubuntu, various KDE3 hacks of Lucid 10.04 and later, attempts at TDE on Ubuntu from 10.04 onwards, until at last Debian Jessie ran pretty well, except for systemd, and I had Devuan running great with no problem. This stuff seems to have come out of nowhere, as I haven't really changed anything in my configuration, except to adapt as necessary, and I haven't changed anything in Debian or Devuan. I had it running for three months or so without touching anything, and now this.... Despite what Mike Bird may believe, I have not changed any permissions in this stuff since 2006.
Also I hesitate to post all the items Mike requests, as there is such a thing as too much; however, I may get desperate and submit. Besides, it seems too much for Mike to try to run everything that I have on my system, as I try out a lot of different software, then gradually strip it down to what I need and what works.
1. Having gone into the config folder /home/<USER>/.config/pulse/ I did find a cookie file with rw permissions only. (I assume that this ought to be rw-r-r, am I right?) However, this would not be my doing, as I generally haven't ever used pulseaudio until it was forced on me in Debian; and, as I said, I haven't really changed anything in my config since for ever.
Most of my problems with pulse have already disappeared, though, as I purged everything possible that is connected to pulse. There are only two files remaining, both libpulse*-type stuff, and they seem to be necessary, as when I try to remove them, apt wants to uninstall practically everything TDE or Trinity on my system. Anyway, these lines have disappeared in my startup shell:
"Failed to create secure directory //.config/pulse
so pulse does not seem to be the root cause. However, I just checked top, and even though I have purged everything of pulseaudio, it still runs as a process!
2. Now the plot thickens. Maybe somebody will recognize these details. I purged everything to do with pulse, except for two files which appear to be essential dependencies. Now when I booted up, I got these lines:
(EE) Fatal server error Could not create lock file in /tmp/.tXO-lock
and
tdm [2692] error: X server died during startup X server for display :0 can't be started, session disabled
I tried removing the lock file via command-line, and got this;
rm: cannot remove 'XO-lock' Read-only file system
This seems to be caused by some conflict between Debian and Devuan packages. I tried removing everything systemd, but that caused problems. I installed Devuan packages, and made init my PID 1. I removed systemd-sysv, but didn't do a total purge of systemd stuff, and it ran great, "purring like a kitten" (as I said too quickly), and then this crap.
Bill
P.S. Running Devuan Jessie on i386 Frankenstein hardware.
Hello Bill,
Am Sonntag 05 August 2018 schrieb William Morder:
(EE) Fatal server error Could not create lock file in /tmp/.tXO-lock
and
tdm [2692] error: X server died during startup X server for display :0 can't be started, session disabled
I tried removing the lock file via command-line, and got this;
rm: cannot remove 'XO-lock' Read-only file system
I lost track about the original problem, but this error does not seem to have any relation to pulse. Look at the messages. The X server died because of read-only mounted file system. This seems to be the root of the actual problem. I only ever have encountered read-only mounted file systems during boot mostly because missing file systems or errors of which.
This seems to be caused by some conflict between Debian and Devuan packages.
Why would you ever mix Devuan and Debian? Devuan basically *is* Debian exept a few packages without dependencies to systemd stuff. Devuan explicitly says not to mix with Debian.
If you want to get rid of systemd choose a straight upgrade path from Debian to Devuan like described on their website and enjoy.
I tried removing everything systemd, but that caused problems. I installed Devuan packages, and made init my PID 1. I removed systemd-sysv, but didn't do a total purge of systemd stuff, and it ran great, "purring like a kitten" (as I said too quickly), and then this crap.
See from the outside this is far too vague (for me at least) to guess what you actually did and if or how you broke something. If you're running Debian there are ways to use sysvinit as init system, but you shouldn't install Devuan packages in a Debian, I think. Run either Debian or Devuan. There lies no advantage in mixing them, I'm quite certain.
HTH,
kind regards, Stefan
Hi Bill,
As Stefan noted, there's too much being changed and too little information for us to help you. You probably have a quarter million or more files on your system - enough files that if they were printed out they would fill a small library. And you're changing things. And computers are very fussy eaters. We have no idea what you have on your system so how can we tell you where it is broken?
For best results start with a clean install and only change what you understand. Thoroughly test one change before trying another. Keep good backups so you can back away from mistakes.
On Sat August 4 2018 23:01:10 William Morder wrote:
Sorry to vanish in mid-thread; a combination of this ongoing problem, which forces me to reinstall my system every other day
Does the system run correctly after installing? Precisely what changes to break things? Is your hardware reliable?
my home folder has remained essentially the same through several different operating systems
Don't restore your entire home folder - it contains lots of config that's probably obsolete or incompatible. Restore only specific user files such as documents, photos, music, etc.
I did find a cookie file with rw permissions only. (I assume that this ought to be rw-r-r, am I right?)
Probably not. There's no reason for other users to read your configs.
Could not create lock file in /tmp/.tXO-lock
As Stefan noted, this is where you should start. Check your syslog from boot to this point to find an explanation of why your root filesystem was either remounted read-only or was not remounted read-write.
This seems to be caused by some conflict between Debian and Devuan packages.
This is somewhat unlikely as the two are very compatible and mostly identical.
--Mike
On Sunday 05 August 2018 03:23:13 Mike Bird wrote:
Hi Bill,
As Stefan noted, there's too much being changed and too little information for us to help you. You probably have a quarter million or more files on your system - enough files that if they were printed out they would fill a small library.
Although, yes, I probably have too much installed, I do this because I test a lot of different software, then strip down to what I want. For example, I try out all the different media players, but I don't keep them all.
I think maybe you are interpreting my words too literally, though. I backup my home directory, as well as parts of etc, and certain config files, to another hard drive. I don't generally overwrite my home folder and start with a fresh installation, unless I run into obstacles that defeat all my efforts.
And you're changing things. And computers are very fussy eaters. We have no idea what you have on your system so how can we tell you where it is broken?
Not sure what you mean by changing things. As I said, I keep what works and has been stable; which is why I backup my home folder, then look to copy over my configuration where it is possible. I don't want to keep reinventing the wheel.
For best results start with a clean install and only change what you understand. Thoroughly test one change before trying another. Keep good backups so you can back away from mistakes.
On Sat August 4 2018 23:01:10 William Morder wrote:
Sorry to vanish in mid-thread; a combination of this ongoing problem, which forces me to reinstall my system every other day
Does the system run correctly after installing? Precisely what changes to break things? Is your hardware reliable?
Everything runs fine until I change to TDE. I install Debian, migrate to Devuan, purge LibreOffice, then reboot. Then I install TDE and reboot. It is usually on the second reboot, after I have installed TDE packages, that I see this error.
my home folder has remained essentially the same through several different operating systems
Don't restore your entire home folder - it contains lots of config that's probably obsolete or incompatible. Restore only specific user files such as documents, photos, music, etc.
I restore config files, settings, and so on, unless they give me problems. I understand what you're saying, but if I wanted to start from scratch every time, and could not modify my system, then I might as well run Windoze.
I did find a cookie file with rw permissions only. (I assume that this ought to be rw-r-r, am I right?)
Probably not. There's no reason for other users to read your configs.
I will keep an eye on this, as in any case something is causing this issue. If I can find what is making the root filesystem read-only, that will solve the problem.
Could not create lock file in /tmp/.tXO-lock
As Stefan noted, this is where you should start. Check your syslog from boot to this point to find an explanation of why your root filesystem was either remounted read-only or was not remounted read-write.
Yes, thanks, I am combing through my syslog files.
This seems to be caused by some conflict between Debian and Devuan packages.
This is somewhat unlikely as the two are very compatible and mostly identical.
I think it's partly because I migrate to init, but cannot entirely get rid of systemd stuff.
--Mike
Thanks for your patience, and detailed response.
Bill
On Sun August 5 2018 10:01:21 William Morder wrote:
Everything runs fine until I change to TDE. I install Debian, migrate to Devuan, purge LibreOffice, then reboot. Then I install TDE and reboot. It is usually on the second reboot, after I have installed TDE packages, that I see this error.
Hi Bill,
FYI although I am testing Devuan Ascii with TDE PSB, my wife's system is running Devuan Jessie with TDE Stable. Although she has more degrees than I my wife is not a computer geek. And yet I cannot recall the last time she encountered a problem with her Devuan Jessie / TDE Stable system.
To produce a working system such as that I install only what is needed for her. I do not install KDE 4 and then remove it. I do not copy broken config files into a working home folder. And when migrating from Debian to Devuan or upgrading from one version to the next I carefully test the process a half dozen times or more while taking detailed notes before migrating her system or any other production system.
Although my wife knows her root password she uses it perhaps once every other year. Reliable production computers are useful. Experimenting with computers and learning from them is useful in a different way. The two don't mix. It is not reasonable to make massive changes or install ten year old config files and then ask us why your system is broken and THEN decline to tell us the full details of what you did to arrive at that state.
If you can't find a cheap old laptop to experiment on, please at least consider trying to set aside space for a production partition separate from your current test partition. Then carefully build your production partition ... and don't mess with it!
--Mike
William Morder wrote:
Although, yes, I probably have too much installed, I do this because I test a lot of different software, then strip down to what I want. For example, I try out all the different media players, but I don't keep them all.
when you test something you do not do it on your production system. you do it on a test system. In real life we use many test systems to bring a software to production. When it is on production - there is one rule: never touch a running/production system!
So just get a test system and do the testing there. Install and change on production only what you understand and really need.
Keep a clean image(backup) for the test system is also a good idea, so that you do not have to install from scratch
regards
Am Donnerstag 02 August 2018 schrieb William Morder:
I searched the forums, tried various solutions, and eventually just purged everything possible that I could find connected to pulse. (I always preferred ALSA, anyway.) Some Trinity packages seem to depend on pulse or pulse libraries, though, so I wonder if it's possible to get rid of everything pulse without breaking my system.
On a side note, I have similar problems with VLC. I cannot actually *use* it, as it crashes every time. I have made do with smplayer, which is okay, I guess, but I still miss the old VLC. When I try to uninstall or purge VLC, however, I find that it would also uninstall practically all my KDE and TDE packages.
I don't think that TDE depends on pulse, at least not the base libraries. I have not *all* TDE packages installed, but quite a copious install and there is no pulse (on Devuan ascii).
If you find a pulse program/package you can try to find out why it is installed with this handy command:
$ aptitude why <package>
Kind regards, Stefan
On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 10:15:22 +0200 Stefan Krusche linux@stefan-krusche.de wrote:
Am Donnerstag 02 August 2018 schrieb William Morder:
I searched the forums, tried various solutions, and eventually just purged everything possible that I could find connected to pulse. (I always preferred ALSA, anyway.) Some Trinity packages seem to depend on pulse or pulse libraries, though, so I wonder if it's possible to get rid of everything pulse without breaking my system.
On a side note, I have similar problems with VLC. I cannot actually *use* it, as it crashes every time. I have made do with smplayer, which is okay, I guess, but I still miss the old VLC. When I try to uninstall or purge VLC, however, I find that it would also uninstall practically all my KDE and TDE packages.
I don't think that TDE depends on pulse, at least not the base libraries. I have not *all* TDE packages installed, but quite a copious install and there is no pulse (on Devuan ascii).
KDE3 predated pulseaudio, so I find it unlikely that any Trinity package has a hard dependency on it. None of the packages I have installed even have it as an optional dependency, so nothing in tdebase uses it.
In general, if you're using the simple setup of a single set of wired speakers or headphones, and are content with a single master volume control, you don't need pulseaudio, whatever your distro's package manager may claim (if you need media support in Firefox, try installing apulse instead). Other than that, well, I've encountered one cheap game from Humble Bundle that wouldn't play nice with my ALSA-only setup.
E. Liddell
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried this distro?
https://antixlinux.com/ https://antixlinux.com/about/ https://antixlinux.com/antix-16-3-full-iso-files-available/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/antix-linux/files/Final/antiX-16/ https://antixlinux.com/download/https://ftp.nluug.nl/os/Linux/distr/mxlinux-...
It is based on Debian, but without systemd, has a KDE4 desktop, but not a lot of excess crap. It comes as a live CD, and can function as a rescue disc, as well; would be nicer with TDE installed, but we can't get everything we want. Also has a net install version, but this requires Ethernet.
Most of the images fit on a CD, and the base images come without LibreOffice (for those of us out there who, like me, hate it). In any case, it was created without systemd from the start. By the way, it is hosted in the MEPIS repositories, or so I read somewhere.
I intend to give it a try on my next system reinstallation.
Bill
William Morder composed on 2018-08-04 23:19 (UTC-0700):
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried this distro?
https://antixlinux.com/ https://antixlinux.com/about/ https://antixlinux.com/antix-16-3-full-iso-files-available/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/antix-linux/files/Final/antiX-16/ https://antixlinux.com/download/https://ftp.nluug.nl/os/Linux/distr/mxlinux-...
It is based on Debian, but without systemd, has a KDE4 desktop, but not a lot of excess crap. It comes as a live CD, and can function as a rescue disc, as well; would be nicer with TDE installed, but we can't get everything we want. Also has a net install version, but this requires Ethernet.
Most of the images fit on a CD, and the base images come without LibreOffice (for those of us out there who, like me, hate it). In any case, it was created without systemd from the start. By the way, it is hosted in the MEPIS repositories, or so I read somewhere.
I intend to give it a try on my next system reinstallation.
I gave it a try back when TDE was part of the AntiX distribution. It was nice enough except for an incompatibility with my multiboot methodology, which keeps a single partition with many apps, scripts and more I install outside the package management system for mounting as /usr/local/. AntiX keeps much of its differentiation from straight Debian in /usr/local/ in directories of the same names I use instead of /opt/, so instead of trying to figure out a way to work around the shared directories problems I simply dropped the idea of using it at all.
On Saturday 04 August 2018 10:43:59 pm Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-08-04 23:19 (UTC-0700):
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried this distro?
https://antixlinux.com/ https://antixlinux.com/about/ https://antixlinux.com/antix-16-3-full-iso-files-available/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/antix-linux/files/Final/antiX-16/ https://antixlinux.com/download/https://ftp.nluug.nl/os/Linux/distr/mxlin ux-cd/ANTIX/Final/antiX-17.1/
It is based on Debian, but without systemd, has a KDE4 desktop, but not a lot of excess crap. It comes as a live CD, and can function as a rescue disc, as well; would be nicer with TDE installed, but we can't get everything we want. Also has a net install version, but this requires Ethernet.
Most of the images fit on a CD, and the base images come without LibreOffice (for those of us out there who, like me, hate it). In any case, it was created without systemd from the start. By the way, it is hosted in the MEPIS repositories, or so I read somewhere.
I intend to give it a try on my next system reinstallation.
I gave it a try back when TDE was part of the AntiX distribution. It was nice enough except for an incompatibility with my multiboot methodology, which keeps a single partition with many apps, scripts and more I install outside the package management system for mounting as /usr/local/. AntiX keeps much of its differentiation from straight Debian in /usr/local/ in directories of the same names I use instead of /opt/, so instead of trying to figure out a way to work around the shared directories problems I simply dropped the idea of using it at all.
I use AntiX in a VM, to sandbox a web browser.
Originally used AntiX (xfce) and MX Linux (icewm) for low resource machines. Part of a recycle older hardware plan. Not so much these days.
AntiX just works though tried to install TDE, failed, did not try harder.
greg
On Saturday 04 August 2018 23:43:59 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-08-04 23:19 (UTC-0700):
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried this distro?
https://antixlinux.com/ https://antixlinux.com/about/ https://antixlinux.com/antix-16-3-full-iso-files-available/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/antix-linux/files/Final/antiX-16/ https://antixlinux.com/download/https://ftp.nluug.nl/os/Linux/distr/mxlin ux-cd/ANTIX/Final/antiX-17.1/
It is based on Debian, but without systemd, has a KDE4 desktop, but not a lot of excess crap. It comes as a live CD, and can function as a rescue disc, as well; would be nicer with TDE installed, but we can't get everything we want. Also has a net install version, but this requires Ethernet.
Most of the images fit on a CD, and the base images come without LibreOffice (for those of us out there who, like me, hate it). In any case, it was created without systemd from the start. By the way, it is hosted in the MEPIS repositories, or so I read somewhere.
I intend to give it a try on my next system reinstallation.
I gave it a try back when TDE was part of the AntiX distribution. It was nice enough except for an incompatibility with my multiboot methodology, which keeps a single partition with many apps, scripts and more I install outside the package management system for mounting as /usr/local/. AntiX keeps much of its differentiation from straight Debian in /usr/local/ in directories of the same names I use instead of /opt/, so instead of trying to figure out a way to work around the shared directories problems I simply dropped the idea of using it at all.
When I was doing multiboot systems, I gave up on shared directories (like home). Instead, I just created two completely separate systems; two home folders, two root folders, etc., and that worked pretty well. When I needed to copy something from one home folder to another, that was a hassle, but viable, and better than a broken system. I didn't like the idea of duplicated (wasted) space, but it was the best solution. I ran like that on a laptop, while I was learning Debian, with a Hardy Heron as the other system.
My Hardy Kubuntu 8.04 configuration still runs like a top, when I install it on a machine; except that it is mostly unusable for Internet now, due to lack of security updates, patches, etc.
Hardy Heron with KDE3 (the only machine I've ever loved) is basically what I am trying to recreate on TDE. It looks almost identical, but doesn't quite run as smoothly.
Well, since I am not doing multiboot at the moment, maybe AntiX will work for me.
*fingers crossed*
Bill
On 08/04/2018 11:19 PM, William Morder wrote:
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried this distro?
I've had it on the laptop on which I'm typing for a year or so. It works fine, and TDE installed with no problems. The only thing I don't like about it is that it uses wicd for the network manager, which I don't really care for with wifi. So I've been intending to change it to MX Linux, which also works fine for me on several machines.
On Sunday 05 August 2018 07:58:56 Dan Youngquist wrote:
On 08/04/2018 11:19 PM, William Morder wrote:
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried this distro?
I've had it on the laptop on which I'm typing for a year or so. It works fine, and TDE installed with no problems. The only thing I don't like about it is that it uses wicd for the network manager, which I don't really care for with wifi. So I've been intending to change it to MX Linux, which also works fine for me on several machines.
I already install TDE over Debian Jessie with the KDE desktop, so I figured it wouldn't be any more difficult than that. And the fact that it runs init and not systemd is also good, as I think some of my problems are due to having to migrate from Debian to Devuan. I've never been able to do a successful installation directly from a Devuan disc, but must install Debian, then Devuan, then TDE, then uninstall LibreOffice and install OpenOffice, etc. And cannot do net install here, so I need to use a live disc. If my circumstances were different, then I would probably take a different approach.
AntiX, too, sounds like their build without systemd is more integrated, so that I don't need to do a lot of messing. And it is for older machines, which describes both my desktop and laptop. (My desktop is currently using a laptop hard drive as sda1, with a minimal home directory, a fairly large root partition, four internal hard drives, two external hard drives, and numerous serial devices attached.) So a minimalist distro is probably better for my needs.
Again, I can work with wicd, but it is not my networkmanager of choice; I'd much prefer to use tdenetworkmanager, but somehow that is causing me connection problems, whereas I can force my connection to behave by using a combination of command-line and wicd. Not how I'd like it to be, perhaps, but it works, which is better than the alternative.
Thanks for everybody's input. I just wanted to know if it was worth wasting my time. For the present, Devuan Jessie seems to behave, but I'll wait and see a few days more.
This would all be a lot simpler (at least, from a certain point of view) if I still had the luxury of an entire room dedicated to computers, parts, etc., where I had several different machines always running, or being rebuilt (including a Commodore Amiga 64, and a Mac Classic II), which allowed me more experimentation. I've never been a real geek; more a self-hacker, out of necessity. Now I must experiment on the same two machines that I need to use for work and life. Oh well ... we work with what we have.
Bill
On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 12:48 PM, William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
On Sunday 05 August 2018 07:58:56 Dan Youngquist wrote:
On 08/04/2018 11:19 PM, William Morder wrote:
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried this distro?
I'm impressed. I haven't used this for a few years so I downloaded it and I have it running in VMWare it is impressive they not only use Stretch sources not Devuan which is a real surprise to me (they are using pinning to keep systemd off) but a full usable desktop in an 800mb download. I haven't tried Trinity on it yet but so far it seems to run very well. They don't have have pulseaudio installed but Firefox has sound I am definitely going to have to look into that some more. Seems to be using something called apulse which I am not familiar with may be something they wrote not sure yet.
No it defaults to IceWM you can install Trinity if you want. Trinity is a desktop enviroment where IceWM is a window manager. It uses scripts to call seperate tools to do what you need.
On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 2:58 PM, andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
Good information.
Is the desktop similar to Trinity desktop ?
Thanks,
André
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On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 13:00:27 -0400 "Pisini, John" pisinij@csps.com wrote:
They don't have have pulseaudio installed but Firefox has sound I am definitely going to have to look into that some more. Seems to be using something called apulse which I am not familiar with may be something they wrote not sure yet.
If I recall correctly, apulse was originally created as a shim for the desktop version of Skype.
https://github.com/i-rinat/apulse
E. Liddell
On Tuesday 07 August 2018 03.34:44 E. Liddell wrote:
If I recall correctly, apulse was originally created as a shim for the desktop version of Skype.
apulse did not work well on my machine (that - unfortunately - has hdmi that I don't use but regularely comes back as card number 0...). Replacing with pulseaudio does the trick (at least for the moment).
I also had the surprise that TDE install did not install tdm... had to do this myself.
Apart from that, I could copy all my settings from Debian 9 and it seems I can forget systemd...
Ah, Debian sees my harddisc as /dev/sdb but AntiX as /dev/sda (so I presume it does not see the ooold zip drive that I am too lazy to remove...)
Anyone know a mixer for pulseaudio that let's you setup 7.1 sound? I have sound but I can't balance the rear loudspeakers...
Thierry
Thierry de Coulon wrote:
Anyone know a mixer for pulseaudio that let's you setup 7.1 sound? I have sound but I can't balance the rear loudspeakers...
I don't have such a card, but in theory it should be configurable below pulseaudio
For example the kernel document Documentation/sound/hd-audio/controls.rst explains which hd audio codec specifix mixer controls can be configured (driver level)
and btw the mixer for pulse is pavucontrol - needs to be installed extra.
regards
If pavucontrol doesn't work try pnmixer
On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 6:08 PM deloptes deloptes@gmail.com wrote:
Thierry de Coulon wrote:
Anyone know a mixer for pulseaudio that let's you setup 7.1 sound? I have sound but I can't balance the rear loudspeakers...
I don't have such a card, but in theory it should be configurable below pulseaudio
For example the kernel document Documentation/sound/hd-audio/controls.rst explains which hd audio codec specifix mixer controls can be configured (driver level)
and btw the mixer for pulse is pavucontrol - needs to be installed extra.
regards
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On Wednesday 08 August 2018 00.11:37 John Pisini wrote:
If pavucontrol doesn't work try pnmixer
Does not work. Looking at the description they say pulse is not supported. I will try pnmixer on the Debian install which uses alsa to take a look.
On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 6:08 PM deloptes deloptes@gmail.com wrote:
Thierry de Coulon wrote:
Anyone know a mixer for pulseaudio that let's you setup 7.1 sound? I have sound but I can't balance the rear loudspeakers...
I don't have such a card, but in theory it should be configurable below pulseaudio
For example the kernel document Documentation/sound/hd-audio/controls.rst explains which hd audio codec specifix mixer controls can be configured (driver level)
and btw the mixer for pulse is pavucontrol - needs to be installed extra.
pavucontrol works fine but gives no control of the different loudspeakers, Alsa did, but does not seem to accept to turn hdmi off (which pulse does).
regards
Thanks both,
Thierry
Okay, so here's a weird wireless problem. Now and then my wireless connection totally disappears. Usually this happens right after some unlucky event, such as a sudden power disruption; and that happens with annoying frequency not only in my apartment building, but also in much of the city. (In April of 2017, the power went out in about one-third of the city, including where I live; which event killed my old desktop computer. I swear, San Francisco is like a third-world country when in comes to a lot of the basic amenities.)
When power is restored, and I boot up, my wireless connection is usually missing. My trick for temporarily restoring it has been to boot up with a Debian live disc, which recognizes my wireless connection, then to reboot into my system, and there it is. But this tends to be a temporary fix, and after a few more reboots, over maybe a couple weeks or a month, I end up having to reinstall my system; and this is what I am trying to avoid.
I'm currently running Devuan Jessie, and my Debian live disc wasn't working to fix the problem, so I tried booting up the Devuan net install CD, ran the installer up to the point of configuring the network interfaces, then I booted into rescue mode (in the Devuan net install CD), and tried restarting networking, some ifup/ifdown commands, various iwconfig commands, but these didn't seem to do much of anything. When I rebooted, my wireless connection was back again, and now it seems to be running fine, but I fear that this is still just a temporary quick fix.
So I'm wondering if there is a way to restore the lost connection without jumping through all these hoops. A command-line solution would be nice.
I ought to add that I am running a desktop computer, but that I access my network (shared network in my apartment building) via a CCrane wifi antenna; which has served me without complaint for about ten years now.
All suggestions or observations are welcome, and thanks for taking the time. However, please do not recommend that I buy a backup power supply; as indeed that is on my wish list, but I cannot afford it at present. That would prevent damage to my computer, but it's just not feasible for me now.
Bill
Riddle me this: new/old problem with Kmail.
Ever since I moved to TDE with Debian Jessie, I've had this annoying but minor glitch. When I start up Kmai, I get some message that I need to re-index folders, usually just the inbox, or whatever folder I've used last.
Sometimes I see that I have unread emails; these are usually ghosts. (This is a bug that I experienced with the old KDE3, going back to when Noah built the Ark. Anyway, so I just click and mark them read, and I'm done with it until the next time I boot up, when I go through it all again, only with different emails that I need to change from read to unread. Annoying, like I said, but minor, and I was never bothered enough to care.
Now when I start up Kmail, I see 39 unread emails, all of which seem to go back to about the same date, apparently sometime in the past week, all of them from the TDE mailing list. They don't go away, not even when I try to mark all the emails in that folder as unread.
Only when I download new emails: then the unread emails disappear, but whenever I move anything into the folder (from inbox or sent mail folders), they all reappear once more. And when I start up Kmail again, all those "unread" ghost emails come back; furthermore, the number keeps growing, and they all seem to start from the same date - except that when I search the folder for those emails, there are no unread emails, it's just a number that appears on the Kmail icon in the lower panel.
Does anybody else have a problem like this? Or, how do I fix it?
Bill
On Tuesday 09 October 2018 01.51:03 William Morder wrote:
Riddle me this: new/old problem with Kmail.
Ever since I moved to TDE with Debian Jessie, I've had this annoying but minor glitch. When I start up Kmai, I get some message that I need to re-index folders, usually just the inbox, or whatever folder I've used last.
(...)
Does anybody else have a problem like this? Or, how do I fix it?
Bill
I get this some time, mostly when I migrate the kmail directory to a new installation, or after a crash. Never enough to be a trouble.
I imagine you've done this allready, but what I do is delete all the files in .trinity/share/apps/kmail (not the directories, of course) and restart kmail, which re-indexes everything. I usually get a few unread messages which I "reread", then it's done.
Thierry
Am Dienstag, 9. Oktober 2018 schrieb Thierry de Coulon:
On Tuesday 09 October 2018 01.51:03 William Morder wrote:
Riddle me this: new/old problem with Kmail.
Ever since I moved to TDE with Debian Jessie, I've had this annoying but minor glitch. When I start up Kmai, I get some message that I need to re-index folders, usually just the inbox, or whatever folder I've used last.
(...)
Does anybody else have a problem like this? Or, how do I fix it?
Bill
I get this some time, mostly when I migrate the kmail directory to a new installation, or after a crash. Never enough to be a trouble.
I imagine you've done this allready, but what I do is delete all the files in .trinity/share/apps/kmail (not the directories, of course) and restart kmail, which re-indexes everything. I usually get a few unread messages which I "reread", then it's done.
On my side this happens when I delete mails from maildir folders that kmail has indexed. The next time kmail starts it recreates the indices of the affected folders.
Maybe the filepermissions/owner of the maildir folder is inconsistent?
Nik
My network connection has been pretty stable; but after a few days up and running, I start to notice hints of connection issues. I get knocked offline, or at any rate cannot connect, but I only notice when a web page won't load or Kmail gives me an error message. (I don't get a notification that I am now offline.) I can usually reconnect, though sometimes I notice what seem to be lingering ghosts of dead connections, with my old IP address(es), even though I've killed all my previous connections. After I reconnect, I can use email, surf the web, whatever, but these issues tend to increase, and my connection seems unstable, though I cannot tell why.
When at last I reboot my system, the startup shell invariably tells me that my wireless connection (wlan0) is not recognized, although eth0 is okay. I have managed to get my wireless connection back by booting with a live Debian or Devuan disc, where my wireless connection is always available. Then I reboot into my Devuan system, and usually my wireless connection is again recognized and available; it used to be that this trick always worked, but now it only works sometimes.
My connection issues also used to get worse over time; then I would reinstall my system, and everything would be fine once more, and only deteriorate over several weeks or so. But now I've reinstalled my system a couple times, and these wireless issues seem to be constant, even on a fresh installation.
A direct connection is not possible; wireless internet service is available to tenants in my building (although I'm sure that, by now, in my neighborhood, everybody's dog has cracked our insecure password). And while this is a desktop computer that I'm using, I get wireless by using a wifi antenna, which has served me reliably for years.
Another interesting detail: I tried using an old Kubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron live CD to boot the computer, and it also did not recognize my wireless connection; so I wonder if this is not a TDE bug, rather than a problem with the Devuan system. I haven't tried booting into other desktops yet, but I suppose I could install some other DEs and compare.
I've already tried every command-line solution I could think of: ifup / ifdown iwconfig wlan0 txpower on and so on.
Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to include whatever details might be significant. Any suggestions for how to resolve these issues (other than by reinstalling yet again) would be most appreciated.
Bill
On Wednesday 31 October 2018 05:01:13 pm William Morder wrote:
My connection issues also used to get worse over time; then I would reinstall my system, and everything would be fine once more, and only deteriorate over several weeks or so.
A direct connection is not possible; wireless internet service is available to tenants in my building (although I'm sure that, by now, in my neighborhood, everybody's dog has cracked our insecure password).
Another interesting detail: I tried using an old Kubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron live CD to boot the computer, and it also did not recognize my wireless connection
Hi Bill,
This scenario is possible, but I’m not real sure on how probable...
It’s easy enough to use Aircrack, or similar, to hack about any wireless. You’d need to actually dig up the exact details, but I believe the way it works is it piggybacks off an existing MAC/IP/Session (e.g. you) and then mimics your MAC address from then on. I’d guess the building’s router is setup to ‘punish’ high-traffic users (which it now feels you are as ‘you’ are now several people’s worth of connections) by throttling or blacklisting your MAC address.
If that’s actually the problem, then possibly install Aircrack, Backtrack?, or whatever and change your MAC address once a day or so. [1]
Hope that helps, Michael
[1] The last time I even looked at this was 8+ years ago, as such I profess no real knowledge on how to do this, these came up in search and seem to concur with my memories... https://forum.aircrack-ng.org/index.php?topic=1340.0 https://null-byte.wonderhowto.com/forum/change-mac-address-backtrack-0149937...
On Sunday 04 November 2018 15:50:32 Michael wrote:
On Wednesday 31 October 2018 05:01:13 pm William Morder wrote:
My connection issues also used to get worse over time; then I would reinstall my system, and everything would be fine once more, and only deteriorate over several weeks or so.
A direct connection is not possible; wireless internet service is available to tenants in my building (although I'm sure that, by now, in my neighborhood, everybody's dog has cracked our insecure password).
Another interesting detail: I tried using an old Kubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron live CD to boot the computer, and it also did not recognize my wireless connection
Hi Bill,
This scenario is possible, but I’m not real sure on how probable...
It’s easy enough to use Aircrack, or similar, to hack about any wireless. You’d need to actually dig up the exact details, but I believe the way it works is it piggybacks off an existing MAC/IP/Session (e.g. you) and then mimics your MAC address from then on. I’d guess the building’s router is setup to ‘punish’ high-traffic users (which it now feels you are as ‘you’ are now several people’s worth of connections) by throttling or blacklisting your MAC address.
If that’s actually the problem, then possibly install Aircrack, Backtrack?, or whatever and change your MAC address once a day or so. [1]
Hope that helps, Michael
[1] The last time I even looked at this was 8+ years ago, as such I profess no real knowledge on how to do this, these came up in search and seem to concur with my memories... https://forum.aircrack-ng.org/index.php?topic=1340.0 https://null-byte.wonderhowto.com/forum/change-mac-address-backtrack-014993 7/
Yeah, I was wondering if it was something like that. And I am definitely a "high traffic user", at least sometimes (like when downloading Debian images, or installing packages, etc. And I use Tor whenever possible. But most of the time I am actually doing pretty ordinary computer stuff, and not downloading porn or streaming Netflix, etc. I used to get kicked off the network every couple hours.
I use the macchanger package to change my mac address pretty much every time I have problems, so I change it sometimes several times a day, but other times I might keep the same mac address for several days. It depends on whether I hve connection issues.
Also it seems that something was changing my settings in my /etc/network/interfaces files; but I'm not sure yet if this was my fault, or something else at work. I'm troubleshooting now.
Thanks for your observation. At least I'm on the right track with changing my mac address.
Bill
Don't know if this is a TDE issue or not, but maybe somebody here can tell me what's going on.
Suddenly all my jabber/xmpp accounts have stopped working. I thought maybe it was that the servers had gone down, so I went and registered some new accounts at other servers, and got several accounts registered, but most of them also won't connect. I did have 2 old accounts that still worked, and 1 new account, but then in the past day two of these accounts have also stopped working. Now the only one I have that works now is the very first one that I registered about 15 years ago.
Error messages I get are either: There was a connection error: Network failure. -or- no authentication method available (or something like that)
I've been exchanging emails with one of the techs for one of the servers, and was asked if I use IPv4 or IPv6. As it happens, I disable IPv6 on this system, because I cannot find a firewall that does what I want yet (like firestarter). Do I really have to use IPv6? I hear that they are running out of addresses, but until now my system has been running pretty well.
I've tried psi, pidgin, etc. (to make sure that it's not an issue with Kopete), but I still get the same errors. However, it could still be an issue with Trinity. I've never had problems with certificates and all that, but I also never gave it much thought.
Any clues about what is the problem?
Bill
P.S. running Devuan Jessie with Trinity R14.0.6
Okay, so the problem seems to have been resolved, and in this case it does seem to be a TDE problem; or at least, a problem with the kopete-trinity package.
I cannot torify Kopete, and the available configurations are obsolete. I got away with not being able to configure within the client by torifying Kopete over a secure shell. But now that doesn't work.
However, for myself the problem is solved by using psi-plus, which seems to work great (so far ... fingers crossed), and has the further advantage of being a cross-platform application, rather that specific to TDE or (for that other version of Kopete) the KDE4+ versions.
I don't know if this qualifies as something to be investigated by the devs, but there it is.
Bill
On Thursday 14 February 2019 22:56:58 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2019 Thu, 14 Feb 21:13:42 -0800
William Morder scripsit:
psi-plus
Now that project I didn't know of :-)
Nik
Very nice, indeed. I already like it better than Pidgin, Kopete, and pretty much every other chat client out there, and I've known a lot of them.
Cross-platform, too, with a portable version on SourceForge: https://sourceforge.net/projects/psiplus/
direct dll https://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/psiplus/Windows/Personal-Builds/te...
Not that I use Windoze much, but sometimes one gets stuck at a public computer with only a flash drive for protection (in lieu of a fig leaf).
Bill
This is a spin-off from Gene's thread, mentioning the various desktops available ... before we finally get to install TDE ... so a new thread.
Speaking of which ... I know that there are a few third-party options with the TDE desktop already installed, but thus far none of them work for me.
There is a Devuan iso out there (ExeGnu, I think, and perhaps another), but I go through all the steps with them, and then it doesn't boot up. Only Devuan netinstall really *works* for me.
So I wonder if we can't get a Devuan netinstall disc modified so that it includes Trinity repositories and TDE as a menu choice when we choose our desktop? Jessie (as I am still stuck there), Ascii (=Stretch) and maybe Beowulf (= Buster) would be nice.
(This is a request for Slavek, perhaps, or are there others out there who are making Trinity Devuan installation discs?)
Bill
On Friday 05 April 2019 03:16:59 pm William Morder wrote:
This is a spin-off from Gene's thread, mentioning the various desktops available ... before we finally get to install TDE ... so a new thread.
Speaking of which ... I know that there are a few third-party options with the TDE desktop already installed, but thus far none of them work for me.
There is a Devuan iso out there (ExeGnu, I think, and perhaps another), but I go through all the steps with them, and then it doesn't boot up. Only Devuan netinstall really *works* for me.
So I wonder if we can't get a Devuan netinstall disc modified so that it includes Trinity repositories and TDE as a menu choice when we choose our desktop? Jessie (as I am still stuck there), Ascii (=Stretch) and maybe Beowulf (= Buster) would be nice.
(This is a request for Slavek, perhaps, or are there others out there who are making Trinity Devuan installation discs?)
Hey Bill,
I did a very successful Devuan 2 / TDE build by installing NO desktop in Devuan and then booting and using root prompt to install TDE. Worked very well, granted you need a second box to be able to read the commands from or have them in files on the install USB.
I believe this is most of the files I used, lets see if they attach…
Do check them against the current TDE wiki, they're possibly stale by now.
Best, Michael
William Morder wrote:
Speaking of which ... I know that there are a few third-party options with the TDE desktop already installed, but thus far none of them work for me.
I've been very happy with community-pclinuxos64-tde-mini-2018.12.iso https://pclosusers.com/communityiso/Trinity/
On Friday 05 April 2019 14:04:16 Dave Lers wrote:
William Morder wrote:
Speaking of which ... I know that there are a few third-party options with the TDE desktop already installed, but thus far none of them work for me.
I've been very happy with community-pclinuxos64-tde-mini-2018.12.iso https://pclosusers.com/communityiso/Trinity/
Yes, PCLinux was the very first Linux system that I tried, and that's where I discovered the KDE3 desktop. However, due to stability issues at the time, I switched to Kubuntu, and eventually to Debian then Devuan.
I really want to stick with the Devuan sysvinit. Everything runs great, as I said, except for a few issues (addressed in other threads), and of course the fact that TDE doesn't "come with" as a standard menu choice for desktop.
The reason I bring up this possibility is that it *seems* that a Devuan netinstall disc would be one of the easier ones to adapt, to make a Trinity version; but then, of course, I'm not the one creating the disc, and I definitely don't have time or inclination to roll my own at the moment. (But more about my extracurricular activities in a soon-to-be-started new thread ... oh, the suspense!)
regarding Michael's suggestion:
Hey Bill,
I did a very successful Devuan 2 / TDE build by installing NO desktop in Devuan and then booting and using root prompt to install TDE. Worked very well, granted you need a second box to be able to read the commands from or have them in files on the install USB.
I believe this is most of the files I used, lets see if they attach…
Do check them against the current TDE wiki, they're possibly stale by now.
Best, Michael tdedevuan.tar.gz
* I'll definitely check out your packages!
I did try something like this, but installing my TDE system from a root prompt (I think you mean the shell that is available in the "expert install - no gui" version?) doesn't go so smoothly for me, as I have a lot of packages; sort of my own private repository.
And that, by the way, would be my preferred option, if we remain with no dev-created Trinity Devuan netinstall option. I would like to point my system to my Devuan and Trinity folders, and install from the packages there using apt-get, and let it find dependencies, rather than using dpkg, which necessitates many duplicate packages (the dependencies, etc.) in separate folders. If I could get my system to recognize an address within my own system, and use the packages in specified folders, and using apt-get to do it, that would be perfect.
I seem to recall that long ago I did exactly that: created a sort of private repository within my own system, or maybe it was on my home network, but for the life of me, I can't recall how I got it set up, because nothing I've tried recently has worked.
Bill
On Friday 05 April 2019 04:53:15 pm William Morder wrote:
On Friday 05 April 2019 14:04:16 Dave Lers wrote:
William Morder wrote:
regarding Michael's suggestion:
Hey Bill,
I did a very successful Devuan 2 / TDE build by installing NO desktop in Devuan and then booting and using root prompt to install TDE. Worked very well, granted you need a second box to be able to read the commands from or have them in files on the install USB.
I believe this is most of the files I used, lets see if they attach…
Do check them against the current TDE wiki, they're possibly stale by now.
Best, Michael tdedevuan.tar.gz
- I'll definitely check out your packages!
I did try something like this, but installing my TDE system from a root prompt (I think you mean the shell that is available in the "expert install
- no gui" version?)
Hi Bill,
Ah, no, not "expert install." A regular install using the Devuan ISO.
I used this one:
/devuan/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/ devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1.iso
Probably overkill, I just wanted something to install the base Devuan with.
The steps I took were:
- Make a Devuan USB install stick and copy those files to it (and my .bashrc, my ~/bin folder, and a bunch else as I needed propitiatory wifi drivers). - Connect to your router with an Ethernet cable before booting the Devuan installer.
In the Devuan install process:
- Select a mirror (this auto adds the correct Package repositories) - And in the Software Selection only select: - - Console productivity - - Standard system utilities (Uncheck everything else!) - Finish Devuan install - Boot
- Install TDE through root command line (all you have at this point). - Boot
- Presto TDE is the only desktop on the system.
as I have a lot of packages; sort of my own private repository.
Stick them on the USB stick? Okay, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this.
Best, Michael
On Friday 05 April 2019 15:35:53 Michael wrote:
On Friday 05 April 2019 04:53:15 pm William Morder wrote:
On Friday 05 April 2019 14:04:16 Dave Lers wrote:
William Morder wrote:
regarding Michael's suggestion:
Hey Bill,
I did a very successful Devuan 2 / TDE build by installing NO desktop in Devuan and then booting and using root prompt to install TDE. Worked very well, granted you need a second box to be able to read the commands from or have them in files on the install USB.
I believe this is most of the files I used, lets see if they attach…
Do check them against the current TDE wiki, they're possibly stale by now.
Best, Michael tdedevuan.tar.gz
- I'll definitely check out your packages!
I did try something like this, but installing my TDE system from a root prompt (I think you mean the shell that is available in the "expert install - no gui" version?)
Hi Bill,
Ah, no, not "expert install." A regular install using the Devuan ISO.
I used this one:
/devuan/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/ devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1.iso
Probably overkill, I just wanted something to install the base Devuan with.
The steps I took were:
- Make a Devuan USB install stick and copy those files to it (and my
.bashrc, my ~/bin folder, and a bunch else as I needed propitiatory wifi drivers). - Connect to your router with an Ethernet cable before booting the Devuan installer.
In the Devuan install process:
- Select a mirror (this auto adds the correct Package repositories)
- And in the Software Selection only select:
- Console productivity
- Standard system utilities
(Uncheck everything else!)
Finish Devuan install
Boot
Install TDE through root command line (all you have at this point).
Boot
Presto TDE is the only desktop on the system.
as I have a lot of packages; sort of my own private repository.
Stick them on the USB stick? Okay, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this.
Best, Michael
I mean, in my sources.list, rather than the usual URL for repositories online, e.g,
deb http://fi.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing
I would like instead to be able to point apt-get to a system address, e.g.,
deb ????://media/trinity/jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing deb ????://media/devuan/jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing
but I don't know what to put in place of ???? or http, or even if this will work. And this is just a folder in a hard drive in my desktop; I haven't yet networked my computers here, which will make it even more fun.
It can take me hours and hours to download packages when I do a fresh installation; I really would like to be able to get my system back up and running in under an hour ... like I used to be able to do when running Kubuntu Hardy. (Nowadays, a new installation takes a minimum of 5-6 hours, sometimes a couple days if I miss a step.)
That was about 2004 or 2005; then I discovered aptoncd, which solved the problem in a different way, and I didn't think about it again until I tried to create DVDs of Devuan and Trinity packages with aptoncd; only to discover, alas, that 1) aptoncd has been removed from the repositories, and 2) the aptoncd package that I have, which still works, will not recognize Trinity packages, but seems to believe that they belong to an older system or another distro, so they are rejected.
And this is why I seem to recall that I had set up apt to use a system folder address as my own personal repository. But this was about 15 years ago, when I first started running Linux, so I probably followed some paint-by-numbers guides, and I can't recall all the steps, and also did not save the web page, or cannot find it.
This, too, is unusual for me, as I save everything that might be useful later, categorize, organize, etc. If only I could keep my house as orderly as my computer files.
Sorry if I ramble on, but it's 4 am here, and this boy needs his sleep.
Bill
On Saturday 06 April 2019 06:12:36 am William Morder wrote:
On Friday 05 April 2019 15:35:53 Michael wrote:
On Friday 05 April 2019 04:53:15 pm William Morder wrote:
On Friday 05 April 2019 14:04:16 Dave Lers wrote:
William Morder wrote:
regarding Michael's suggestion:
Hey Bill,
I did a very successful Devuan 2 / TDE build by installing NO desktop in Devuan and then booting and using root prompt to install TDE. Worked very well, granted you need a second box to be able to read the commands from or have them in files on the install USB.
I believe this is most of the files I used, lets see if they attach…
Do check them against the current TDE wiki, they're possibly stale by now.
Best, Michael tdedevuan.tar.gz
- I'll definitely check out your packages!
I did try something like this, but installing my TDE system from a root prompt (I think you mean the shell that is available in the "expert install - no gui" version?)
Hi Bill,
Ah, no, not "expert install." A regular install using the Devuan ISO.
I used this one:
/devuan/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/ devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1.iso
Probably overkill, I just wanted something to install the base Devuan with.
The steps I took were:
- Make a Devuan USB install stick and copy those files to it (and my
.bashrc, my ~/bin folder, and a bunch else as I needed propitiatory wifi drivers). - Connect to your router with an Ethernet cable before booting the Devuan installer.
In the Devuan install process:
- Select a mirror (this auto adds the correct Package repositories)
- And in the Software Selection only select:
- Console productivity
- Standard system utilities
(Uncheck everything else!)
Finish Devuan install
Boot
Install TDE through root command line (all you have at this point).
Boot
Presto TDE is the only desktop on the system.
as I have a lot of packages; sort of my own private repository.
Stick them on the USB stick? Okay, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this.
Best, Michael
I mean, in my sources.list, rather than the usual URL for repositories online, e.g,
deb http://fi.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing
I would like instead to be able to point apt-get to a system address, e.g.,
deb ????://media/trinity/jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing deb ????://media/devuan/jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing
but I don't know what to put in place of ???? or http, or even if this will work. And this is just a folder in a hard drive in my desktop; I haven't yet networked my computers here, which will make it even more fun.
It can take me hours and hours to download packages when I do a fresh installation; I really would like to be able to get my system back up and running in under an hour ... like I used to be able to do when running Kubuntu Hardy. (Nowadays, a new installation takes a minimum of 5-6 hours, sometimes a couple days if I miss a step.)
That was about 2004 or 2005; then I discovered aptoncd, which solved the problem in a different way, and I didn't think about it again until I tried to create DVDs of Devuan and Trinity packages with aptoncd; only to discover, alas, that 1) aptoncd has been removed from the repositories, and 2) the aptoncd package that I have, which still works, will not recognize Trinity packages, but seems to believe that they belong to an older system or another distro, so they are rejected.
And this is why I seem to recall that I had set up apt to use a system folder address as my own personal repository.
I didn't search on using a system folder, but as for setting up your own apt repository that clones an official repository that's pretty easy and has plentiful guides out there (none of which I've tried). All you need is one permanent box on your network that runs Apache to be the clone and all your other boxes can feed off of it.
It might be a bit disk intensive, but Amazon sells 6TB rust disks for $100. *
And now I'm envisioning a home repository made up of a Pi ($35), 6TB Disk ($100), and a 3.5-inches SATA/USB Hard Drive Enclosure (~$15).
Best, Michael
* Sold?, my link no longer works https://smile.amazon.com/5700RPM-Cache-6-0Gb-Internal-Desktop/dp/B00UCP11U6
On Saturday 06 April 2019 09:45:39 Michael wrote:
On Saturday 06 April 2019 06:12:36 am William Morder wrote:
On Friday 05 April 2019 15:35:53 Michael wrote:
On Friday 05 April 2019 04:53:15 pm William Morder wrote:
On Friday 05 April 2019 14:04:16 Dave Lers wrote:
William Morder wrote:
regarding Michael's suggestion:
Hey Bill,
I did a very successful Devuan 2 / TDE build by installing NO desktop in Devuan and then booting and using root prompt to install TDE. Worked very well, granted you need a second box to be able to read the commands from or have them in files on the install USB.
I believe this is most of the files I used, lets see if they attach…
Do check them against the current TDE wiki, they're possibly stale by now.
Best, Michael tdedevuan.tar.gz
- I'll definitely check out your packages!
I did try something like this, but installing my TDE system from a root prompt (I think you mean the shell that is available in the "expert install - no gui" version?)
Hi Bill,
Ah, no, not "expert install." A regular install using the Devuan ISO.
The so-called "expert install" could be a misnomer, since I use it, but it's the only option I've ever used for installations of Debian-type systems. Also, while the Devuan netinstall discs work great for me, I didn't have so much luck with the full DVD versions; so I am stuck waiting for packages to download over several hours.
My issue here is lack of time, only one working computer at present, and a network still to set up and configure, for whenever I rebuild an old laptop.
A Devuan netinstall CD or full DVD with TDE already included as a menu option is my Christmas wish, so I will put it on my list now, just in case Santa is reading the Trinity mailing list. I promise that I've been reasonably well-behaved; but hey, Santa Claus already knows that I've been good, right?
I used this one:
/devuan/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/ devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1.iso
Probably overkill, I just wanted something to install the base Devuan with.
The steps I took were:
- Make a Devuan USB install stick and copy those files to it (and my
.bashrc, my ~/bin folder, and a bunch else as I needed propitiatory wifi drivers). -
So, if I understand you here, you added the iso image to the USB using dd (with which I am familiar); but added these files to the USB.
This is where I don't quite follow you: Did you modify the iso image that was copied to the USB, and add these files to it? or did you copy them somewhere to the USB along side the image that you have put on the USB?
Connect to your router with an Ethernet cable before booting the Devuan installer.
I use an old C.Crane wifi antenna; and have boosted my signal by rigging up an old aluminum (or aluminium) pie tin to create a not-quite-parabolic shell. (I have almost doubled my signal strength by doing this.) I have no way to plug in to Ethernet (although that's what I'd prefer), as we have wireless Internet only in this building.
In the Devuan install process:
- Select a mirror (this auto adds the correct Package repositories)
- And in the Software Selection only select:
- Console productivity
- Standard system utilities
(Uncheck everything else!)
Finish Devuan install
Boot
Install TDE through root command line (all you have at this point).
Boot
Presto TDE is the only desktop on the system.
as I have a lot of packages; sort of my own private repository.
Stick them on the USB stick? Okay, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this.
I don't want to clone the whole Debian and/or Devuan repositories; I only want to include the packages that I actually use, which (if I discard older, obsolete packages) will fit on an 8 gb flash drive. That is one option, yes, which would be convenient for moving from one computer to another when I am installing; but I don't really care, just that I want to put it on a partition somewhere.
Besides, if you look inside a disc of Debian/Devuan packages (not the installation discs, but rather the discs that contain all the packages from repositories. (Debian has them; not sure about Devuan, but I assumed yes....)
N.B. My other reference to a USB stick or flash drive is maybe from another thread; I mentioned installing a complete system, with root, swap & home partitions, on a 64 gb flash drive, and ran both a laptop and a desktop from it (not simultaneously). I wanted to have a working mini-computer that I could put in my pocket, and use it to boot any computer, if compatible; either my own, or, with permission, somebody else's computer. That way, I am just borrowing the hardware, but the actual system is totally contained on my flash drive. It actually worked quite well.
But anyway, that is not what I intend here; it's mentioned in another thread. I really only want to use a dedicated folder that resides somewhere in my system; not necessarily a network address, as I am not networked yet. Then I wanted to point apt-get to that internal system URL (although URL might not be the right term here for system addresses).
Best, Michael
I mean, in my sources.list, rather than the usual URL for repositories online, e.g,
deb http://fi.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing
I would like instead to be able to point apt-get to a system address, e.g.,
deb ????://media/trinity/jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing deb ????://media/devuan/jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing
but I don't know what to put in place of ???? or http, or even if this will work. And this is just a folder in a hard drive in my desktop; I haven't yet networked my computers here, which will make it even more fun.
It can take me hours and hours to download packages when I do a fresh installation; I really would like to be able to get my system back up and running in under an hour ... like I used to be able to do when running Kubuntu Hardy. (Nowadays, a new installation takes a minimum of 5-6 hours, sometimes a couple days if I miss a step.)
That was about 2004 or 2005; then I discovered aptoncd, which solved the problem in a different way, and I didn't think about it again until I tried to create DVDs of Devuan and Trinity packages with aptoncd; only to discover, alas, that 1) aptoncd has been removed from the repositories, and 2) the aptoncd package that I have, which still works, will not recognize Trinity packages, but seems to believe that they belong to an older system or another distro, so they are rejected.
And this is why I seem to recall that I had set up apt to use a system folder address as my own personal repository.
I didn't search on using a system folder, but as for setting up your own apt repository that clones an official repository that's pretty easy and has plentiful guides out there (none of which I've tried). All you need is one permanent box on your network that runs Apache to be the clone and all your other boxes can feed off of it.
It might be a bit disk intensive, but Amazon sells 6TB rust disks for $100.
And now I'm envisioning a home repository made up of a Pi ($35), 6TB Disk ($100), and a 3.5-inches SATA/USB Hard Drive Enclosure (~$15).
Best, Michael
- Sold?, my link no longer works
https://smile.amazon.com/5700RPM-Cache-6-0Gb-Internal-Desktop/dp/B00UCP11U6
Apparently so, yes. My condolences. I found an archived version of your page: https://archive.is/xyxuS Their prices can change drastically, according to your location and other factors; so if you can spoof your location, you may find that same price you mentioned.
As it happens, I need to buy a new hard drive, in order to rearrange my files. I am working on a big project, and that would be a help. I was hoping to buy a 3 TB hdd for about $100 or so, but 6 TB would be better; so I will keep watching for the deals.
More about my newest project in another thread. Look for "radio".
Bill
Anno domini 2019 Sat, 6 Apr 04:12:36 -0700 William Morder scripsit:
On Friday 05 April 2019 15:35:53 Michael wrote:
On Friday 05 April 2019 04:53:15 pm William Morder wrote:
On Friday 05 April 2019 14:04:16 Dave Lers wrote:
William Morder wrote:
regarding Michael's suggestion:
Hey Bill,
I did a very successful Devuan 2 / TDE build by installing NO desktop in Devuan and then booting and using root prompt to install TDE. Worked very well, granted you need a second box to be able to read the commands from or have them in files on the install USB.
I believe this is most of the files I used, lets see if they attach…
Do check them against the current TDE wiki, they're possibly stale by now.
Best, Michael tdedevuan.tar.gz
- I'll definitely check out your packages!
I did try something like this, but installing my TDE system from a root prompt (I think you mean the shell that is available in the "expert install - no gui" version?)
Hi Bill,
Ah, no, not "expert install." A regular install using the Devuan ISO.
I used this one:
/devuan/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/ devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1.iso
Probably overkill, I just wanted something to install the base Devuan with.
The steps I took were:
- Make a Devuan USB install stick and copy those files to it (and my
.bashrc, my ~/bin folder, and a bunch else as I needed propitiatory wifi drivers). - Connect to your router with an Ethernet cable before booting the Devuan installer.
In the Devuan install process:
- Select a mirror (this auto adds the correct Package repositories)
- And in the Software Selection only select:
- Console productivity
- Standard system utilities
(Uncheck everything else!)
Finish Devuan install
Boot
Install TDE through root command line (all you have at this point).
Boot
Presto TDE is the only desktop on the system.
as I have a lot of packages; sort of my own private repository.
Stick them on the USB stick? Okay, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this.
Best, Michael
I mean, in my sources.list, rather than the usual URL for repositories online, e.g,
deb http://fi.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing
I would like instead to be able to point apt-get to a system address, e.g.,
deb ????://media/trinity/jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing deb ????://media/devuan/jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing
but I don't know what to put in place of ???? or http, or even if this will work. And this is just a folder in a hard drive in my desktop; I haven't yet networked my computers here, which will make it even more fun.
It can take me hours and hours to download packages when I do a fresh installation; I really would like to be able to get my system back up and running in under an hour ... like I used to be able to do when running Kubuntu Hardy. (Nowadays, a new installation takes a minimum of 5-6 hours, sometimes a couple days if I miss a step.)
That was about 2004 or 2005; then I discovered aptoncd, which solved the problem in a different way, and I didn't think about it again until I tried to create DVDs of Devuan and Trinity packages with aptoncd; only to discover, alas, that 1) aptoncd has been removed from the repositories, and 2) the aptoncd package that I have, which still works, will not recognize Trinity packages, but seems to believe that they belong to an older system or another distro, so they are rejected.
And this is why I seem to recall that I had set up apt to use a system folder address as my own personal repository. But this was about 15 years ago, when I first started running Linux, so I probably followed some paint-by-numbers guides, and I can't recall all the steps, and also did not save the web page, or cannot find it.
This, too, is unusual for me, as I save everything that might be useful later, categorize, organize, etc. If only I could keep my house as orderly as my computer files.
Sorry if I ramble on, but it's 4 am here, and this boy needs his sleep.
Hi Bill!
This might be a starting point: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Modify/CD - but I do not know it this helps in changing spirces.list
I personaly prefer to modify the netinst installer image, it's all in the initrd.gz. Unpack, modify, repack :-)
Nik
Bill
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On Fri April 5 2019 14:53:15 William Morder wrote:
I really want to stick with the Devuan sysvinit. Everything runs great, as I said, except for a few issues (addressed in other threads), and of course the fact that TDE doesn't "come with" as a standard menu choice for desktop.
FWIW, after three years with Devuan we're back to Debian.
The original Stretch support for sysvinit was badly damaged but nowaways Stretch with backports is working fine on both laptops and servers, and we believe Buster will be just as good.
Devuan was more than 99.6% Debian with just a few small changes to a few files. Now that Debian is working with sysvinit again we prefer to get files direct from the source with timely security updates.
(YMMV)
--Mike
On Friday 05 April 2019 15:40:50 Mike Bird wrote:
On Fri April 5 2019 14:53:15 William Morder wrote:
I really want to stick with the Devuan sysvinit. Everything runs great, as I said, except for a few issues (addressed in other threads), and of course the fact that TDE doesn't "come with" as a standard menu choice for desktop.
FWIW, after three years with Devuan we're back to Debian.
The original Stretch support for sysvinit was badly damaged but nowaways Stretch with backports is working fine on both laptops and servers, and we believe Buster will be just as good.
Devuan was more than 99.6% Debian with just a few small changes to a few files. Now that Debian is working with sysvinit again we prefer to get files direct from the source with timely security updates.
(YMMV)
--Mike
If Debian does indeed run with sysvinit and no fussing round trying to uninstall systemd, etc. (which gave me lots of grief), then I may give this a try whenever next I need to reinstall ... which might be a while, because, like I said, it has been running great, or almost great.
I do want to upgrade to Ascii or Buster, at least, so that I get current security patches. Otherwise I wouldn't bother you guys with my problems.
;-)
Bill
Anno domini 2019 Fri, 5 Apr 16:02:22 -0700 William Morder scripsit:
On Friday 05 April 2019 15:40:50 Mike Bird wrote: [...] If Debian does indeed run with sysvinit and no fussing round trying to uninstall systemd, etc. (which gave me lots of grief), then I may give this a try whenever next I need to reinstall ... which might be a while, because, like I said, it has been running great, or almost great.
That will probably never happen. Debian is not only to drop sysv support sooner or later, it will drop all support for anything else than systemd.
I do want to upgrade to Ascii or Buster, at least, so that I get current security patches. Otherwise I wouldn't bother you guys with my problems.
I'm running Devuan Beowulf, it's perfeorming verry nicely. Even LinuxCNC works well :-)
Nik
;-)
Bill
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On Saturday 06 April 2019 02:10:40 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2019 Fri, 5 Apr 16:02:22 -0700
William Morder scripsit:
On Friday 05 April 2019 15:40:50 Mike Bird wrote: [...] If Debian does indeed run with sysvinit and no fussing round trying to uninstall systemd, etc. (which gave me lots of grief), then I may give this a try whenever next I need to reinstall ... which might be a while, because, like I said, it has been running great, or almost great.
That will probably never happen. Debian is not only to drop sysv support sooner or later, it will drop all support for anything else than systemd.
I do want to upgrade to Ascii or Buster, at least, so that I get current security patches. Otherwise I wouldn't bother you guys with my problems.
I'm running Devuan Beowulf, it's perfeorming verry nicely. Even LinuxCNC works well :-)
Nik
;-)
It didn't occur to me until I read this, but maybe I ought to try just "leap-frogging" over Ascii/Stretch, and go straight to Beowulf/Buster. My issues with Kmail and my wireless interface might be specific to Ascii/Stretch, whereas I was supposing that it is some change that will affect whatever Debian-type system I try to install.
Usually I go straight through the distros one after another, in the hope that changes to familiar packages will be gradual.
Bill
On Friday 05 April 2019 05:40:50 pm Mike Bird wrote:
On Fri April 5 2019 14:53:15 William Morder wrote:
I really want to stick with the Devuan sysvinit. Everything runs great, as I said, except for a few issues (addressed in other threads), and of course the fact that TDE doesn't "come with" as a standard menu choice for desktop.
FWIW, after three years with Devuan we're back to Debian.
The original Stretch support for sysvinit was badly damaged but nowaways Stretch with backports is working fine on both laptops and servers, and we believe Buster will be just as good.
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the headsup and Is this the guide you used for Debian Stretch w/ sysvinit?
https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Debi...
If not, would you link us with what you did use?
My MX18's lightdm just blew a fuse (no user can log into any desktop) and running on a pure Debian is very much desired. *
Thanks, Michael
* MX Linux is a really nice beast, but even with all the work they've done to make Nvidia an easy install, MX doesn't seem to play well with Nvidia. Or maybe Nvidia drivers are just a problem with every distro?
On Fri April 5 2019 16:33:06 Michael wrote:
Thanks for the headsup and Is this the guide you used for Debian Stretch w/ sysvinit?
https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Deb ian_Stretch_installation
If not, would you link us with what you did use?
When we install Stretch we actually do a default install without a GUI and then switch from systemd to sysvinit before doing anything else. In the link you provided that's just the first set of "required steps" ... 1, 2, 3, done. In fact I'm not even sure if "2" is needed. I think the inittab appears on its own but I could be mistaken as we use some scripts for this and the scripts might create /etc/inittab.
In order to do everything we wanted we found we had to use Stretch Backports. For example we didn't want policykit-1 and hplip depends on this in Stretch but it's only a recommendation in Stretch Backports.
--Mike
Anno domini 2019 Fri, 5 Apr 17:13:33 -0700 Mike Bird scripsit:
On Fri April 5 2019 16:33:06 Michael wrote:
Thanks for the headsup and Is this the guide you used for Debian Stretch w/ sysvinit?
https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Deb ian_Stretch_installation
If not, would you link us with what you did use?
When we install Stretch we actually do a default install without a GUI and then switch from systemd to sysvinit before doing anything else. In the link you provided that's just the first set of "required steps" ... 1, 2, 3, done. In fact I'm not even sure if "2" is needed. I think the inittab appears on its own but I could be mistaken as we use some scripts for this and the scripts might create /etc/inittab.
In order to do everything we wanted we found we had to use Stretch Backports. For example we didn't want policykit-1 and hplip depends on this in Stretch but it's only a recommendation in Stretch Backports.
Please try to remove libsystemd ...
Nik
On 05/04/2019 23:40, Mike Bird wrote:
On Fri April 5 2019 14:53:15 William Morder wrote:
I really want to stick with the Devuan sysvinit. Everything runs great, as I said, except for a few issues (addressed in other threads), and of course the fact that TDE doesn't "come with" as a standard menu choice for desktop.
FWIW, after three years with Devuan we're back to Debian.
So the debian devs and suckered another one :) It won't be long before they make another unilateral decision ....
On 06/04/2019 09:41, Michael Howard via trinity-users wrote:
On 05/04/2019 23:40, Mike Bird wrote:
On Fri April 5 2019 14:53:15 William Morder wrote:
I really want to stick with the Devuan sysvinit. Everything runs great, as I said, except for a few issues (addressed in other threads), and of course the fact that TDE doesn't "come with" as a standard menu choice for desktop.
FWIW, after three years with Devuan we're back to Debian.
So the debian devs and suckered another one :) It won't be long before they make another unilateral decision ....
That should of course read 'have', not 'and' :)
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I torify the stream using xmms on my desktop computer. For smartphones, I recommend VLC (which also works well over Tor). I also want to create an onion link, if possible, because, you know, some people might not want the Man scrutinizing what music has got them so totally hypnotized. (I am also looking for users' testimonies about what media players work best on Windoze and the Rotten Apple, since my listeners are mostly not Linux geeks.)
My evil twin, Dr Mojo Contendo, is the DJ, station manager, technical expert, janitor, and so on. Please give it a try, if you are so inclined. Our playlist is VERY BIG, and extremely diverse. If you don't like what you hear, keep checking back, as we play *almost* any kind of music imaginable. I have at last got it to the point where I have uploaded enough music to the server to make the music varied enough to sustain attention, and my audience is slowly growing.
We are still running on AutoDJ, which is described as "imperfect"; though I believe that is far too generous a term for how it sort of half-works. I hope to start live streaming from my own playlists within the next few weeks; but I need some help.
**********
Well, so, actually, it's not quite just self-promotion; I'm also looking for some help and suggestions. This is not really specific to TDE; however, I am interested in using Trinity software if available. Since it probably is too far off-topic for this list, I will be glad if anybody wants to email me privately, or if they can recommend resources that are better than what I have.
I've been studying all these online manuals about live streaming Internet radio, but as it turns out, there are a gazillion different ways to do it, and they seem to contradict one another at times. Having read pretty much all the guides & how2s that are out there, my problem, if anything, is that I am overwhelmed with too much information.
So, 3 steps, from what I can tell: 1. I *want* is to use ezstream from command-line to do my live streaming, because then I can just point it to a playlist. Then I only have to edit my playlist, rather than physically copying or moving files.
2. For live broadcast (which is probably down the road even farther), I was intending to use darkice or darksnow.
3. For the server itself, I already have icecast.
We have already taken the trouble to license the music for playing on the radio; so I only really need help with the technical stuff.
Getting them to work together is a bit confusing. Also, I am worried about streaming at too high a bit rate and incurring charges. They seem to imply that files must be converted beforehand to the right bit rate; but I never would convert files to 64 kbps for myself! I only deal in lossless quality for myself and my own music on my own system. But this is how it works, so I have to deal with it.
If I stream at a higher bit rate, ezstream can convert to the proper bit rate, but it stresses out the CPU (or so I read); the way to do it, they say, is to convert them first. Also, I would like to play an ogg stream, not mp3, but we need to get a different server first.
Right now we are using Voscast; which I hate for more reasons than even all the time in the world will permit me to describe. Let's just say, it does everything that I don't want; and the only thing that it can do is sometimes to play the music that I specify. In fact, it plays only about 5% (just guessing) of all the music I've uploaded; and some artists get played over much, considering I've only uploaded 15 songs from that album; whereas I uploaded whole catalogues of music by some jazz and soul artists, and they haven't played ever, not even once.
I believe that maybe Voscast filters uploads (maybe due to all this new stuff that's going on, with trying to stop piracy, etc.?); but there is no rhyme or reason, if that's the case. They filter some things but not others, and it makes no sense, and I can find no common denominator; except, maybe, the artists or record companies want to push some material, and the other stuff gets rejected because it doesn't sell. Anyway, it's very annoying; I waste endless hours uploading music that doesn't get played, and I have no idea why, or if it's filtered or rejected or suppressed or whatever.
If anybody knows of a better service for streaming music, that would also be a great help; at present, cost is a factor, and until we get more listeners to justify spending more money, we seem to be stuck with Voscast. At present, it costs about $17 a month for 64 kbps, which is the lowest quality stream that plays in stereo. I would like to bump it up at least to 128 kbps, maybe even 192 or more, as I see other streams out there now that are much higher quality. But all in good time; that will cost a lot more.
(I say "we" because I have a business partner, who handles the ugly stuff like paying bills and talking to the Suits; whereas I, the celebrity DJ, just manage the music and only ever talk to other musicians.)
Thanks for any help or suggestions.
Bill
William Morder wrote:
If anybody knows of a better service for streaming music, that would also be a great help; at present, cost is a factor, and until we get more listeners to justify spending more money, we seem to be stuck with Voscast. At present, it costs about $17 a month for 64 kbps, which is the lowest quality stream that plays in stereo. I would like to bump it up at least to 128 kbps, maybe even 192 or more, as I see other streams out there now that are much higher quality. But all in good time; that will cost a lot more.
Hi, I think it is pretty good quality for my self made PC boxes out of recycled pc loud speakers, so keep it just the way it is and spend money on advertisements, that will give you more hits and higher download rates.
And what you have now is working pretty well, so why changing something? I recall playing with icecast many moons ago. Good stuff, good choice!
Regarding converting I use ffmpeg. You can put a script together to convert all you have to 64 into a new directory - it makes no sense to burn CPU/power each time you play something.
thumbs up & regards
On Sunday 07 April 2019 10:58:36 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
If anybody knows of a better service for streaming music, that would also be a great help; at present, cost is a factor, and until we get more listeners to justify spending more money, we seem to be stuck with Voscast. At present, it costs about $17 a month for 64 kbps, which is the lowest quality stream that plays in stereo. I would like to bump it up at least to 128 kbps, maybe even 192 or more, as I see other streams out there now that are much higher quality. But all in good time; that will cost a lot more.
Hi, I think it is pretty good quality for my self made PC boxes out of recycled pc loud speakers, so keep it just the way it is and spend money on advertisements, that will give you more hits and higher download rates.
And what you have now is working pretty well, so why changing something? I recall playing with icecast many moons ago. Good stuff, good choice!
Regarding converting I use ffmpeg. You can put a script together to convert all you have to 64 into a new directory - it makes no sense to burn CPU/power each time you play something.
I have worked a lot with ffmpeg, so I'll have to figure out how to cobble together this script. Right now I have not enough space available for a new directory of converted files.
:-\
thumbs up & regards
Thanks for your listening and comments.
I am still tied down about some choices, but the money is slowly getting better, pennies at a time, so when I can buy an external hdd or hdd with enclosure, I will do some massive rearrangements of my materials, then dedicate an older WD 1 TB external hdd just to the converted radio files, and a laptop dedicated just to streaming, and network everything with my desktop.
Then I can relax more, as I don't want to stream live radio from my main computer that I use for work and life and everything else.
The current playlist is rather heavy on jazz, but only because that's what I just uploaded and added to the list. At present, only about a third of unploaded music available on the server (for AutoDJ) have actually been added to the list; within another day or so, there will be much more, and I hope to increase the list every week or so for the next few months, so that for listeners there will be enough variety that they won't get tired after a few hours (unless they just don't like my choices).
Feel free to share with others, as we rely on word-of-mouth for most listeners. We are working on a smartphone app based on VLC.
Bill
This isn't a top priority issue, and I can probably live many years more without resolving it; but it is really annoying. When the panel does its self-hiding trick, I call down curses upon the heads of the developers and all their kind, too.
There are actually two issues, maybe three; but I think maybe they are all related to the panel, thus I put them together here.
1. is trivial, but still annoying. Whenever I start up certain apps, I get a two icons in the panel; a smaller icon, but also a shadow icon - a larger reduplication of the original - but I only need the first. I have got in the habit of just killing the shadow icons by running the command pkill ksystraycmd, and then it goes away until I run another app.
Somehow or other (back when I was running KDE3), I found a way to suppress the shadow icons, but now I can't find it in my notes, and nothing online. I went into TCC, and unclicked boxes in menu items, etc., but it keeps returning.
2. Panel hiding is much more annoying. Quite by accident, when some object on my desk hits the mouse, my panel suddenly hides, and will not come back. I've tried changing settings, locking the panel, etc.; it even survives reboots and shutdowns. I try clicking to restore the panel, and NOTHING HAPPENS, and continues not to happen, for ever.
3. When I unlock the panel, and move round the icons, it gets totally messed up. Even if I lock it, the icons keep moving round, and again, this behavior survives through reboots and shutdowns. When at last I get my icons to behave, and lock the panel and leave it alone.
For 2 & 3, I have tried killing the panel by running pkill kicker, then restarting, but this doesn't work so well. When it does work at all, the panel appears on only one out of my 20 desktops, and again, this sometimes persists through multiple reboots.
Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.
Bill
W A I T ... W A I T ... W A I T ...
Do not ask a question by changing the title to an old question and posting it. That destroys message threading. This current message was buried at the bottom of the original thread:
[trinity-users] chat clients - cannot connect - 2/14/19
On 07/05/2019 06:16 PM, William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
There are actually two issues, maybe three; but I think maybe they are all related to the panel, thus I put them together here.
- is trivial, but still annoying. Whenever I start up certain apps, I get a
two icons in the panel; a smaller icon, but also a shadow icon - a larger reduplication of the original - but I only need the first. I have got in the habit of just killing the shadow icons by running the command pkill ksystraycmd, and then it goes away until I run another app.
Somehow or other (back when I was running KDE3), I found a way to suppress the shadow icons, but now I can't find it in my notes, and nothing online. I went into TCC, and unclicked boxes in menu items, etc., but it keeps returning.
First, just so I am clear you are not talking about the application name and icons shown in the taskbar, and then the smaller icons displayed in the pager are you?
- Panel hiding is much more annoying. Quite by accident, when some object on
my desk hits the mouse, my panel suddenly hides, and will not come back. I've tried changing settings, locking the panel, etc.; it even survives reboots and shutdowns. I try clicking to restore the panel, and NOTHING HAPPENS, and continues not to happen, for ever.
You do not have panel hiding selected in TCC->Desktop->Panels (Hiding tab) [ ] Hide automatically do you?
To restart, use Alt+F2
dcop kicker kicker restart
or
dcop kicker Panel restart
"Panel" is a dcop alias for "kicker" but may not be present in your system. You can always open an konsole (or an xterm) and type
dcop kicker (now look at list)
then to see what you can do, just add any of the next items listed, e.g.
dcop kicker kicker (now you should see restart())
- When I unlock the panel, and move round the icons, it gets totally messed
up. Even if I lock it, the icons keep moving round, and again, this behavior survives through reboots and shutdowns. When at last I get my icons to behave, and lock the panel and leave it alone.
Log out of TDE, then switch to another desktop (or use ctrl+alt+f2 to switch to a text terminal and login) then move or delete kickerrc to force restoration of the default panel:
mv ~/.tde/share/config/kickerrc ~/.tde/share/config/kickerrc.sav
Now log back into TDE.
For 2 & 3, I have tried killing the panel by running pkill kicker, then restarting, but this doesn't work so well. When it does work at all, the panel appears on only one out of my 20 desktops, and again, this sometimes persists through multiple reboots.
Of course, TDE settings and configs are persistent and most are stored in ~/.tde/share/config
On Friday 05 July 2019 21:05:29 David C. Rankin wrote:
W A I T ... W A I T ... W A I T ...
Do not ask a question by changing the title to an old question and posting it. That destroys message threading. This current message was buried at the bottom of the original thread:
[trinity-users] chat clients - cannot connect - 2/14/19
Ummm ... I don't know what to say! I created a new email from scratch. It wasn't a response to a previous post, so maybe that has something to do with your filters?
I don't know how it could have happened otherwise. It was a new email, new title, and so far as I can tell, it ought to be a new question; therefore, it is a completely new thread. I even made up all the words myself, and did not plagiarize, honest! (I only plagiarize poems, because T.S. Eliot told me that was how all the best poets write.)
Maybe it has been asked before, but not by myself, and I did not respond to a previous email to start this thread.
Anyway, 'tis a mystery, at least to me. But to return our muttons ...
On 07/05/2019 06:16 PM, William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
There are actually two issues, maybe three; but I think maybe they are all related to the panel, thus I put them together here.
- is trivial, but still annoying. Whenever I start up certain apps, I
get a two icons in the panel; a smaller icon, but also a shadow icon - a larger reduplication of the original - but I only need the first. I have got in the habit of just killing the shadow icons by running the command pkill ksystraycmd, and then it goes away until I run another app.
Somehow or other (back when I was running KDE3), I found a way to suppress the shadow icons, but now I can't find it in my notes, and nothing online. I went into TCC, and unclicked boxes in menu items, etc., but it keeps returning.
First, just so I am clear you are not talking about the application name and icons shown in the taskbar, and then the smaller icons displayed in the pager are you?
- Panel hiding is much more annoying. Quite by accident, when some
object on my desk hits the mouse, my panel suddenly hides, and will not come back. I've tried changing settings, locking the panel, etc.; it even survives reboots and shutdowns. I try clicking to restore the panel, and NOTHING HAPPENS, and continues not to happen, for ever.
You do not have panel hiding selected in TCC->Desktop->Panels (Hiding tab) [ ] Hide automatically do you?
No, I dislike when the panel (or kicker) hides. If I could disable it completely, that would be better; but I hedge a little, because then maybe for some reason, once in a thousand days, I want to make it hide because some button or something is covered by my lower panel. That is very rare, but on those very few occasions I've wanted to make it hide, so I can imagine that it might happen again. Otherwise, I prefer to make the panel fixed right where it is.
To restart, use Alt+F2
dcop kicker kicker restart
or
dcop kicker Panel restart
"Panel" is a dcop alias for "kicker" but may not be present in your system. You can always open an konsole (or an xterm) and type
dcop kicker (now look at list)
then to see what you can do, just add any of the next items listed, e.g.
dcop kicker kicker (now you should see restart())
- When I unlock the panel, and move round the icons, it gets totally
messed up. Even if I lock it, the icons keep moving round, and again, this behavior survives through reboots and shutdowns. When at last I get my icons to behave, and lock the panel and leave it alone.
Log out of TDE, then switch to another desktop (or use ctrl+alt+f2 to switch to a text terminal and login) then move or delete kickerrc to force restoration of the default panel:
mv ~/.tde/share/config/kickerrc ~/.tde/share/config/kickerrc.sav
Now log back into TDE.
For 2 & 3, I have tried killing the panel by running pkill kicker, then restarting, but this doesn't work so well. When it does work at all, the panel appears on only one out of my 20 desktops, and again, this sometimes persists through multiple reboots.
Of course, TDE settings and configs are persistent and most are stored in ~/.tde/share/config
I will give the rest of these suggestions a try. I dug down deep into the config files when I ran KDE3, but for the most part I have just copied them over to the appropriate place in TDE, when I can find them. Sometimes they have been changed in such a way that I cannot preserve my settings, because the config files are no longer text files in some instances, but xml and other extensions.
In any case, I have managed to restore my panel (i.e., kicker, or kicker-trinity, or maybe it will get renamed ticker?). I'll report my results after I explore these issues further.
Bill
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2019 Fri, 5 Jul 22:30:42 -0700 William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
[...] You do not have panel hiding selected in TCC->Desktop->Panels (Hiding tab) [ ] Hide automatically do you?
No, I dislike when the panel (or kicker) hides. If I could disable it completely, that would be better; but I hedge a little, because then maybe for some reason, once in a thousand days, I want to make it hide because some button or something is covered by my lower panel. That is very rare, but on those very few occasions I've wanted to make it hide, so I can imagine that it might happen again. Otherwise, I prefer to make the panel fixed right where it is.
I disabled autohiding almost from the beginneing (KDE2?), 'cause that time (on SuSE) the panel showed strange hehaviour when reappearing. since then I never missed its autohide feature. Oh, I have aded a hotkey to put apps on top of everything, if needed.
Nik
To restart, use Alt+F2
dcop kicker kicker restart
or
dcop kicker Panel restart
"Panel" is a dcop alias for "kicker" but may not be present in your system. You can always open an konsole (or an xterm) and type
dcop kicker (now look at list)
then to see what you can do, just add any of the next items listed, e.g.
dcop kicker kicker (now you should see restart())
- When I unlock the panel, and move round the icons, it gets totally
messed up. Even if I lock it, the icons keep moving round, and again, this behavior survives through reboots and shutdowns. When at last I get my icons to behave, and lock the panel and leave it alone.
Log out of TDE, then switch to another desktop (or use ctrl+alt+f2 to switch to a text terminal and login) then move or delete kickerrc to force restoration of the default panel:
mv ~/.tde/share/config/kickerrc ~/.tde/share/config/kickerrc.sav
Now log back into TDE.
For 2 & 3, I have tried killing the panel by running pkill kicker, then restarting, but this doesn't work so well. When it does work at all, the panel appears on only one out of my 20 desktops, and again, this sometimes persists through multiple reboots.
Of course, TDE settings and configs are persistent and most are stored in ~/.tde/share/config
I will give the rest of these suggestions a try. I dug down deep into the config files when I ran KDE3, but for the most part I have just copied them over to the appropriate place in TDE, when I can find them. Sometimes they have been changed in such a way that I cannot preserve my settings, because the config files are no longer text files in some instances, but xml and other extensions.
In any case, I have managed to restore my panel (i.e., kicker, or kicker-trinity, or maybe it will get renamed ticker?). I'll report my results after I explore these issues further.
Bill
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On 07/06/2019 12:30 AM, William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
I will give the rest of these suggestions a try. I dug down deep into the config files when I ran KDE3, but for the most part I have just copied them over to the appropriate place in TDE, when I can find them. Sometimes they have been changed in such a way that I cannot preserve my settings, because the config files are no longer text files in some instances, but xml and other extensions.
In any case, I have managed to restore my panel (i.e., kicker, or kicker-trinity, or maybe it will get renamed ticker?). I'll report my results after I explore these issues further.
That is the horrible unintended consequence of renaming. Once we decided against moving to the KDE4 kwin/Qt4, there was no necessity for any further renaming and what was done in preparation for that anticipated move should have been reverted. Now there is always a question of whether a stray (or missing) 't' is the root cause of subtle issue being experienced.
Just image ticker, tate and tonqueror (and the myriad of config setting names, and paths, behind the scenes that are implicated)
On Saturday 06 July 2019 20:01:41 David C. Rankin wrote:
On 07/06/2019 12:30 AM, William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
I will give the rest of these suggestions a try. I dug down deep into the config files when I ran KDE3, but for the most part I have just copied them over to the appropriate place in TDE, when I can find them. Sometimes they have been changed in such a way that I cannot preserve my settings, because the config files are no longer text files in some instances, but xml and other extensions.
In any case, I have managed to restore my panel (i.e., kicker, or kicker-trinity, or maybe it will get renamed ticker?). I'll report my results after I explore these issues further.
That is the horrible unintended consequence of renaming. Once we decided against moving to the KDE4 kwin/Qt4, there was no necessity for any further renaming and what was done in preparation for that anticipated move should have been reverted. Now there is always a question of whether a stray (or missing) 't' is the root cause of subtle issue being experienced.
Just image ticker, tate and tonqueror (and the myriad of config setting names, and paths, behind the scenes that are implicated)
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
Just to be sure that I wasn't going senile, and had forgot a previous post, I did go back to that date you mentioned, and it was about an entirely different issue. I also searched for *ksystraycmd*, *kicker* and *panel*, and got nothing either with my name on it, or with the same issue as I have described in this current thread.
However ... my mind having been addled by spending too much time in the company of "bad influences" with bad habits ... I did wonder and question the accuracy of my memories ... ... ... ? In any case, I plead "not guilty" to the charge of plagiarism, or even of self-plagiarism. I may sometimes repeat my thoughts, but I always use entirely new words, or at least a totally new arrangement of old words.
This issue never came up with the old KDE3, except for the trivial bother about ksystraycmd (#1 in my original post), which I can quickly kill in a terminal. I would like the shadow icons never to appear at all, and somehow I did find a solution in KDE3, but now it eludes me. Whether this has something to do with renaming of KDE3 stuff, or changes in the locations or extensions of config files, I don't know.
What really bugs me, though, is this issue with the panel, or kicker. I disabled the self-hiding, but what happens is that the hide button gets clicked by accident, usually when something bumps my mouse, and the pointer just happens to be in the right place at the wrong time.
An interesting variation of this issue is that sometimes my lower panel decides to relocate along the right or left sides of my screen, but with the same stubborn refusal to return.
This would not be a problem, of course, if I could just click and have it come back again; but it doesn't. It just stays hidden indefinitely, and no amount of clicking, re-clicking, waiting, waiting some more, begging, pleading, praying, cursing, cajoling, rebooting, shutting down, logging in to a different desktop, etc., etc., ad peninfinitum et nauseam, can make the panel come back, until at long last it seems to decide all on its own to reappear.
I have come to hold my lower panel in a kind of superstitious awe and dread, and resolve never to touch it, so long as it is actually working; but every once in a while, something happens, and I have this problem all over again.
I disabled autohiding almost from the beginneing (KDE2?), 'cause that time (on SuSE) the panel showed strange hehaviour when reappearing. since then I never missed its autohide feature. Oh, I have aded a hotkey to put apps on top of everything, if needed.
Nik
How did you create that hotkey? (And by the way, I want my icons to appear on my panel, not my desktop. I keep my desktops clear, so that I can use them to display (mostly) art or other graphics.) Now, if I could have a hotkey to restore my panel, that might be useful.
Bill
On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 22:50:34 -0700 "William Morder via trinity-users" trinity-users@lists.pearsoncomputing.net wrote:
What really bugs me, though, is this issue with the panel, or kicker. I disabled the self-hiding, but what happens is that the hide button gets clicked by accident, usually when something bumps my mouse, and the pointer just happens to be in the right place at the wrong time.
You can tell it not to display the panel hiding buttons (uncheck "Show left panel-hiding button" and "Show right panel-hiding button" in the Panel -> Hiding configuration page). Can't click on them, mistakenly or otherwise, if they're not there.
E. Liddell
On Sunday 07 July 2019 04:25:09 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 22:50:34 -0700
"William Morder via trinity-users"
trinity-users@lists.pearsoncomputing.net wrote:
What really bugs me, though, is this issue with the panel, or kicker. I disabled the self-hiding, but what happens is that the hide button gets clicked by accident, usually when something bumps my mouse, and the pointer just happens to be in the right place at the wrong time.
You can tell it not to display the panel hiding buttons (uncheck "Show left panel-hiding button" and "Show right panel-hiding button" in the Panel -> Hiding configuration page). Can't click on them, mistakenly or otherwise, if they're not there.
E. Liddell
Huh. I did try that before, and somehow that bit kept coming back. (I mean, the panel hiding buttons were still there, waiting to do their worst.) Just tried it again, and they're gone.
So, part of one of my issues (and one of the more annoying) is resolved; even if I am mystified why I couldn't do that before. Maybe some lost config file?
Anyway, thanks to the mysterious E. Liddell for sending me back to gui basics.
Bill
Back when I used KDE3, I had done *something* to disable the reduplication of icons in my systray, but I forgot how it was done, and somehow I lost the config file, or whatever it was that I did to suppress it.
I know it's a trivial complaint, but it's still annoying that when I run most apps, duplicate "ghost" icons appear in my system tray, thus taking up yet more space in my desktop. I kill them by running the command pkill ksystraycmd in a shell, and they go away ... until the next time I start a new program, and then it's back. I estimate that it takes about five seconds to kill the ghost icons, but those seconds add up, and according to my calculations, I have lost about 6 months from my projected lifespan. This is time that I'd rather spend doing something else.
There are some config files which I believed might do the trick: /home/<USER>/.kde/share/config/systemtray_panelappletrc /home/<USER>/.trinity/share/config/systemtray_panelappletrc
In my old KDE3 configuration (or so I *believed* that I remembered), I just removed ksystraycmd from this line:
[HiddenTrayIcons] Hidden=ksystraycmd
and presto! it was gone. But now it doesn't seem to work.
I looked for some kind of corresponding config file here: /opt/trinity/share/config.kcfg/ but found nothing. (I'm not even sure that the config files in this folder perform the same functions as the old config files (which always end in -rc).
Does anybody have a clue about how to suppress these ghost icons? (And, by extension, where are our configuration files, and how do we alter them?)
Bill
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Dear Bill,
Am Samstag, 11. April 2020 schrieb William Morder via trinity-users:
I know it's a trivial complaint, but it's still annoying that when I run most apps, duplicate "ghost" icons appear in my system tray,
What are these "ghost" icons and where (from which program) do they come from?
There are some config files which I believed might do the trick: /home/<USER>/.kde/share/config/systemtray_panelappletrc /home/<USER>/.trinity/share/config/systemtray_panelappletrc
In my old KDE3 configuration (or so I *believed* that I remembered), I just removed ksystraycmd from this line:
[HiddenTrayIcons] Hidden=ksystraycmd
and presto! it was gone. But now it doesn't seem to work.
Are you sure that this Option switched off *all* icons from all programs globally?
Does anybody have a clue about how to suppress these ghost icons? (And, by extension, where are our configuration files, and how do we alter them?)
The only places I could find where there are options to either show/put an icon in the systray or not are in config files of specific programs:
$ cd .trinity/share $ grep -ri Tray * # output trimmed config/kteatimerc:UseTrayVis=true config/kgetrc:systemtrayquitKGet=false config/kmplayerrc:Dock in System Tray=true config/tdewalletmanagerrc:systemtrayquitDienstprogramm für digitale Brieftasche=false config/kmailrc:SystemTrayEnabled=true config/kmailrc:SystemTrayPolicy=ShowAlways config/kmailrc:systemtrayquitKMail=false config/kopeterc:Show Systemtray=true config/kopeterc:Trayflash Notification=true config/kopeterc:Trayflash Notification Left Click Opens Message=true config/kopeterc:Trayflash Notification Set Current Desktop To Chat View=true config/kmldonkeyrc:systemtrayquitKMLDonkey=false config/kmldonkeyrc:CloseToTrayIcon=true config/kmldonkeyrc:ShowTrayIcon=true config/kmixrc:TrayVolumeControl=true config/krusaderrc:Start To Tray=false config/tdenetworkmanagerrc:systemtrayquitKNetworkManager=false config/kgpgrc:systemtrayquitKGpg=false config/kxkbrc:systemtrayquitKDE-Dienstprogramm für die Tastatur=false config/kxkbrc:systemtrayquitTDE-Dienstprogramm für die Tastatur=false config/uiserverrc:ShowSystemTray=false config/kwalletmanagerrc:systemtrayquitDienstprogramm für digitale Brieftasche=false config/kwalletmanagerrc:systemtrayquitKDE Wallet Manager=false config/kshutdownrc:systemtrayquitKShutDown=false config/kjobviewerrc:systemtrayquitKJobViewer=false
So maybe you can't globally prevent all programs running inside TDE from placing icons in the systray but only switch that off on a per program basis.
If that is the case you still might find an option like that within the program you are using and which you don't want to place an icon in systray.
I don't know if any of this applies to your situation with "duplicate ghost icons", but I thought I'd give it a try to help.
If it doesn't you can do what I once did to find a bug in my TDE configuration:
1. create a new user (Don't name him/her "test" with password "test" ;) 2. Can you observe the phenomenon under the new (unconfigured) user? If not: 3. Log out from the new user account, copy one of the relevant config files after another into the corresponding .trinity/* directory of the newly created user and see if the phenomenon reappears after the next login. Then you would know in which file the option is set and you could compare these old/new config files.
HTH
Kind regards, Stefan
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On Thursday 16 April 2020 04:46:25 Stefan Krusche wrote:
Dear Bill,
Am Samstag, 11. April 2020 schrieb William Morder via trinity-users:
I know it's a trivial complaint, but it's still annoying that when I run most apps, duplicate "ghost" icons appear in my system tray,
What are these "ghost" icons and where (from which program) do they come from?
Stefan,
Thanks for your reply. I know it's a trivial complaint, but I like to get my machines to do what I want. The question is ... which is to be master?
:-)
They come from (almost) whatever program I run: e.g., smplayer, psi-plus, whatever. (These are the most common examples that come to mind, but there are many others.) Now that I think about it, I wonder if they are all non-TDE programs? ... but I'd have to consider that question some more.
See attachment for a sample screenshot. Look to the right of center in the bottom panel, where all the program icons are clustered together.
Note that there are two icons for smplayer; one is the icon that appears in the system tray, and then there is another that is almost like it, but a sort of "ghost" - a duplicate, but as you can see it looks a little different.
Sometimes I get several of these ghost icons; at other times, the ghosts are for some other program(s) that I started around the same time, and do not correspond to the program that they are supposed to represent. (So, for instance, the ghost icon will tell me, with a tooltip, when I put the mouse pointer over it, that it represents psi-plus, but the ghost icon looks like smplayer.) In any case, these items take up space, and perform no useful function, so far as I can tell.
There are some config files which I believed might do the trick: /home/<USER>/.kde/share/config/systemtray_panelappletrc /home/<USER>/.trinity/share/config/systemtray_panelappletrc
In my old KDE3 configuration (or so I *believed* that I remembered), I just removed ksystraycmd from this line:
[HiddenTrayIcons] Hidden=ksystraycmd
and presto! it was gone. But now it doesn't seem to work.
Are you sure that this Option switched off *all* icons from all programs globally?
Does anybody have a clue about how to suppress these ghost icons? (And, by extension, where are our configuration files, and how do we alter them?)
The only places I could find where there are options to either show/put an icon in the systray or not are in config files of specific programs:
Trinity Control Center has options to make an icon appear in the system tray, or not; but for some programs, it is convenient to have an icon there for a quick point-and-click (smplayer, obviously), because I want to stop and/or start a video, or hide the program. But I can't change the settings in TCC, to have the icon appear in the tray, without also having its ghost appear on first run.
$ cd .trinity/share $ grep -ri Tray * # output trimmed config/kteatimerc:UseTrayVis=true config/kgetrc:systemtrayquitKGet=false config/kmplayerrc:Dock in System Tray=true config/tdewalletmanagerrc:systemtrayquitDienstprogramm für digitale Brieftasche=false config/kmailrc:SystemTrayEnabled=true config/kmailrc:SystemTrayPolicy=ShowAlways config/kmailrc:systemtrayquitKMail=false config/kopeterc:Show Systemtray=true config/kopeterc:Trayflash Notification=true config/kopeterc:Trayflash Notification Left Click Opens Message=true config/kopeterc:Trayflash Notification Set Current Desktop To Chat View=true config/kmldonkeyrc:systemtrayquitKMLDonkey=false config/kmldonkeyrc:CloseToTrayIcon=true config/kmldonkeyrc:ShowTrayIcon=true config/kmixrc:TrayVolumeControl=true config/krusaderrc:Start To Tray=false config/tdenetworkmanagerrc:systemtrayquitKNetworkManager=false config/kgpgrc:systemtrayquitKGpg=false config/kxkbrc:systemtrayquitKDE-Dienstprogramm für die Tastatur=false config/kxkbrc:systemtrayquitTDE-Dienstprogramm für die Tastatur=false config/uiserverrc:ShowSystemTray=false config/kwalletmanagerrc:systemtrayquitDienstprogramm für digitale Brieftasche=false config/kwalletmanagerrc:systemtrayquitKDE Wallet Manager=false config/kshutdownrc:systemtrayquitKShutDown=false config/kjobviewerrc:systemtrayquitKJobViewer=false
So maybe you can't globally prevent all programs running inside TDE from placing icons in the systray but only switch that off on a per program basis.
If that is the case you still might find an option like that within the program you are using and which you don't want to place an icon in systray.
I don't know if any of this applies to your situation with "duplicate ghost icons", but I thought I'd give it a try to help.
If it doesn't you can do what I once did to find a bug in my TDE configuration:
- create a new user (Don't name him/her "test" with password "test" ;)
- Can you observe the phenomenon under the new (unconfigured) user? If
not: 3. Log out from the new user account, copy one of the relevant config files after another into the corresponding .trinity/* directory of the newly created user and see if the phenomenon reappears after the next login. Then you would know in which file the option is set and you could compare these old/new config files.
HTH
Kind regards, Stefan
Thanks much. I will run through these suggestions to see if anything helps.
Bill
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Am Donnerstag, 16. April 2020 schrieb William Morder via trinity-users:
They come from (almost) whatever program I run: e.g., smplayer, psi-plus, whatever. (These are the most common examples that come to mind, but there are many others.) Now that I think about it, I wonder if they are all non-TDE programs? ... but I'd have to consider that question some more.
Hi Bill, just a quick shot from the hip: if these are qt4-based programs like smplayer then the TDE configuration wouldn't affect them because they have their own configuration. However, smplayer doesn't put an icon into my systray and I can not explain why…
Kind regards, Stefan
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On Thursday 16 April 2020 09:37:18 am Stefan Krusche wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 16. April 2020 schrieb William Morder via trinity-users:
They come from (almost) whatever program I run: e.g., smplayer, psi-plus, whatever. (These are the most common examples that come to mind, but there are many others.) Now that I think about it, I wonder if they are all non-TDE programs? ... but I'd have to consider that question some more.
Hi Bill, just a quick shot from the hip: if these are qt4-based programs like smplayer then the TDE configuration wouldn't affect them because they have their own configuration. However, smplayer doesn't put an icon into my systray and I can not explain why…
SMplayer doesn't put an icon in my systray either. Nor could I find an option in SMPlayer related to the systray.
I'll add a shot in the dark too, have you tried changing the TDE theme:
TCC >> Appearance & Themes >> Theme Manager
to see if it's maybe theme related?
Although when I open mine, I find that TDD doesn't have any theme selected, which is a bit wonky in itself...
Best, Michael
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On Thursday 16 April 2020 10:18:34 am BorgLabs - Kate Draven wrote:
On Thursday 16 April 2020 10:21:26 am Michael wrote:
SMplayer doesn't put an icon in my systray either. Nor could I find an option in SMPlayer related to the systray.
smplayer has an option to put an icon in the systray. "options" > "show icon in system tray"
Huh, gotta wonder why they only put it in a menu item and not in the preferences, which has it's own button so you don't need to open the options menu ;)
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William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
Does anybody have a clue about how to suppress these ghost icons? (And, by extension, where are our configuration files, and how do we alter them?)
I am not sure which exactly is the systray - in my language it says system panel (see attached img15). as far as I know these are applications that register in the system panel/tray - means it can be only TDE app capable of registering in the system panel/tray.
on the additional panel I have the tasks (see attached img16) where all applications show up and you can group them, so instead 20 firefox icons, you have only one or similar - have a look in the settings (right mouse click)
On the other topic - for application to be unique, it depends how it is developed. I am not sure if this would work with not TDE apps. I think it depends how they have been developed. For example in TDE there is KUniqueApplication - which is used to start only one instance of the application in contrast to KApplication - I am not sure if they changed now to TDEApplication etc. but it is not relevant here.
regards
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This is directed mostly to Nik (since I've heard him mention both Devuan and VLC); but also to anybody else who might have some inkling what is causing this issue.
VLC is (or would be) my media player of choice on most of my machines or devices. I use it on my smartphone, and don't need anything else to play music, movies, stream videos or radio. (I've tried other media players, yes, but they are all inadequate by comparison, at least for my own needs.) So many good things to say about VLC ... until about a year or two ago.
Ever since Jessie it will start up, but then immediately crashes. I've gone through looking for conflicts, but nothing obvious jumps out at me.
Any suggestions about where to look, or what might be causing such an issue?
Bill
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William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
VLC is (or would be) my media player of choice on most of my machines or devices. I use it on my smartphone, and don't need anything else to play music, movies, stream videos or radio. (I've tried other media players, yes, but they are all inadequate by comparison, at least for my own needs.) So many good things to say about VLC ... until about a year or two ago.
Might be through, but if I was to use GTK application, I wouldn't stick to TDE for so long.
You'll have to debug - find out where and why it fails.
From what you are writing it could be some old library on the way or some old configuration saved around.
Did you try with another fresh user (just create one, log in and run VLC). You will find out if it has to do with user configuration
My choice is mplayer with kplayer as frontend BTW. The only problem I have from time to time is with commercial DVDs.
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On Thursday 18 June 2020 21:58:26 deloptes wrote:
William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
VLC is (or would be) my media player of choice on most of my machines or devices. I use it on my smartphone, and don't need anything else to play music, movies, stream videos or radio. (I've tried other media players, yes, but they are all inadequate by comparison, at least for my own needs.) So many good things to say about VLC ... until about a year or two ago.
Might be through, but if I was to use GTK application, I wouldn't stick to TDE for so long.
You'll have to debug - find out where and why it fails.
From what you are writing it could be some old library on the way or some old configuration saved around.
Did you try with another fresh user (just create one, log in and run VLC). You will find out if it has to do with user configuration
My choice is mplayer with kplayer as frontend BTW. The only problem I have from time to time is with commercial DVDs.
It didn't take too long, once I started thinking about it from a different point of view. Somebody off-handedly mentioned permissions, and somebody else said to make sure X was included in group "video", etc. And I considered creating a new user, too. But before I did that I just used apt-get to purge, then I looked for the folders where the config files are kept. I didn't even delete them, but only renamed the folders everywhere that I found vlc, to vlc-x, so that I didn't lose them, but so a new installation of vlc wouldn't look there.
Funny thing is, I am pretty sure I tried all this once before. At least now it's working; maybe something will get changed again?
I'm still not sure how it got messed up, since I generally stick with what works, and even make a backup of that folder or file. But somehow, something got messed up. Anyway, so that's better, because I was having a problem watching videos of some file types.
Bill
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Anno domini 2020 Thu, 18 Jun 15:19:49 -0700 William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
This is directed mostly to Nik (since I've heard him mention both Devuan and VLC); but also to anybody else who might have some inkling what is causing this issue.
VLC is (or would be) my media player of choice on most of my machines or devices. I use it on my smartphone, and don't need anything else to play music, movies, stream videos or radio. (I've tried other media players, yes, but they are all inadequate by comparison, at least for my own needs.) So many good things to say about VLC ... until about a year or two ago.
Ever since Jessie it will start up, but then immediately crashes. I've gone through looking for conflicts, but nothing obvious jumps out at me.
Any suggestions about where to look, or what might be causing such an issue?
Bill
Sorry, I think I missed that message. If you have not solved it in the meantime: delete "~/.config/vlc/" and "~/.local/share/vlc"
Nik
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On Friday 19 June 2020 10:21:32 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 18 Jun 15:19:49 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
This is directed mostly to Nik (since I've heard him mention both Devuan and VLC); but also to anybody else who might have some inkling what is causing this issue.
VLC is (or would be) my media player of choice on most of my machines or devices. I use it on my smartphone, and don't need anything else to play music, movies, stream videos or radio. (I've tried other media players, yes, but they are all inadequate by comparison, at least for my own needs.) So many good things to say about VLC ... until about a year or two ago.
Ever since Jessie it will start up, but then immediately crashes. I've gone through looking for conflicts, but nothing obvious jumps out at me.
Any suggestions about where to look, or what might be causing such an issue?
Bill
Sorry, I think I missed that message. If you have not solved it in the meantime: delete "~/.config/vlc/" and "~/.local/share/vlc"
Nik
Hi Nik!
No problem, as others jumped their suggestions. However I did miss the entry in "~/.local/share/vlc", so that helps me, too. And I did believe that I had resolved the issue, until I tried to play another film; when I tried to load the next item, however, I got the same problems all over again.
I am still fiddling with it, looking for old configurations that used to work, to see if I can somehow adapt the settings, but it seems that VLC has changed something, and whatever has changed now interferes with its operation.
In particular, I notice that I am asked for explicit permission for network access. But I don't stream videos from online sources; I only play local files, and have no need of Internet while I am watching; so that seems unnecessary. I don't remember being asked for such permissions before, but maybe I used my own settings to evade the problem until now?
Anyway, at present I must delete VLC folders, etc., then start over for every time I want to play a film. At least I made some progress: I can use VLC (a little), whereas before yesterday, for a year or more past, I could not use it at all.
Does anybody else remember the promise, that computers would make our lives easier, and give us more free time?
Bill
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Anno domini 2020 Fri, 19 Jun 11:03:09 -0700 William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Friday 19 June 2020 10:21:32 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 18 Jun 15:19:49 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
This is directed mostly to Nik (since I've heard him mention both Devuan and VLC); but also to anybody else who might have some inkling what is causing this issue.
VLC is (or would be) my media player of choice on most of my machines or devices. I use it on my smartphone, and don't need anything else to play music, movies, stream videos or radio. (I've tried other media players, yes, but they are all inadequate by comparison, at least for my own needs.) So many good things to say about VLC ... until about a year or two ago.
Ever since Jessie it will start up, but then immediately crashes. I've gone through looking for conflicts, but nothing obvious jumps out at me.
Any suggestions about where to look, or what might be causing such an issue?
Bill
Sorry, I think I missed that message. If you have not solved it in the meantime: delete "~/.config/vlc/" and "~/.local/share/vlc"
Nik
Hi Nik!
No problem, as others jumped their suggestions. However I did miss the entry in "~/.local/share/vlc", so that helps me, too. And I did believe that I had resolved the issue, until I tried to play another film; when I tried to load the next item, however, I got the same problems all over again.
I am still fiddling with it, looking for old configurations that used to work, to see if I can somehow adapt the settings, but it seems that VLC has changed something, and whatever has changed now interferes with its operation.
In particular, I notice that I am asked for explicit permission for network access. But I don't stream videos from online sources; I only play local files, and have no need of Internet while I am watching; so that seems unnecessary. I don't remember being asked for such permissions before, but maybe I used my own settings to evade the problem until now?
Anyway, at present I must delete VLC folders, etc., then start over for every time I want to play a film. At least I made some progress: I can use VLC (a little), whereas before yesterday, for a year or more past, I could not use it at all.
Can you start vlc from commandline and post the error message - if any?
Does anybody else remember the promise, that computers would make our lives easier, and give us more free time?
Yes. And the paperfree office. And then they published UT99 :)
Nik
Bill
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On Friday 19 June 2020 11:17:22 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Fri, 19 Jun 11:03:09 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Friday 19 June 2020 10:21:32 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 18 Jun 15:19:49 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
This is directed mostly to Nik (since I've heard him mention both Devuan and VLC); but also to anybody else who might have some inkling what is causing this issue.
VLC is (or would be) my media player of choice on most of my machines or devices. I use it on my smartphone, and don't need anything else to play music, movies, stream videos or radio. (I've tried other media players, yes, but they are all inadequate by comparison, at least for my own needs.) So many good things to say about VLC ... until about a year or two ago.
Ever since Jessie it will start up, but then immediately crashes. I've gone through looking for conflicts, but nothing obvious jumps out at me.
Any suggestions about where to look, or what might be causing such an issue?
Bill
Sorry, I think I missed that message. If you have not solved it in the meantime: delete "~/.config/vlc/" and "~/.local/share/vlc"
Nik
Hi Nik!
No problem, as others jumped their suggestions. However I did miss the entry in "~/.local/share/vlc", so that helps me, too. And I did believe that I had resolved the issue, until I tried to play another film; when I tried to load the next item, however, I got the same problems all over again.
I am still fiddling with it, looking for old configurations that used to work, to see if I can somehow adapt the settings, but it seems that VLC has changed something, and whatever has changed now interferes with its operation.
In particular, I notice that I am asked for explicit permission for network access. But I don't stream videos from online sources; I only play local files, and have no need of Internet while I am watching; so that seems unnecessary. I don't remember being asked for such permissions before, but maybe I used my own settings to evade the problem until now?
Anyway, at present I must delete VLC folders, etc., then start over for every time I want to play a film. At least I made some progress: I can use VLC (a little), whereas before yesterday, for a year or more past, I could not use it at all.
Can you start vlc from commandline and post the error message - if any?
Does anybody else remember the promise, that computers would make our lives easier, and give us more free time?
Yes. And the paperfree office. And then they published UT99 :)
Nik
Sorry for the delay in responding. Sometimes I get tired of fighting against the machine.
;-)
Well, so I got it going again, at least operable. I am a hoarder, and in one of my hoards I found some old configuration files for VLC that preserve my settings. I still have some problems playing anything directly from a saved iso, as well as some vobs and mpegs. I checked this with an iso that I created myself (so nothing weird to interfere with playback), and I still have problems with some of them. This doesn't seem right.
I did find out something interesting, though. I have purged everything KDE4/5, as well as any traces of MATE or LXDE or whatever else, and even after purging I still keep finding KDE4/5 krap. It is like being in an abusive relationship. My old desktop doesn't want to let me go, and keeps trying to control me even after I have emotionally moved on to a better desktop.
After getting rid of any lingering KDE4/5 files, I suddenly realized that VLC had been using KDE theme settings, rather than my TDE settings. (When I first installed Debian, I used a DVD that had made KDE5 one of the default choices, so I had to configure KDE Plasma before I could get TDE to work. Now I have got rid of KDE, but it seems not quite.)
So I want to believe that I have it almost rebuilt as I like, but we'll see. At the moment, no errors messages to report, but it's still not running quite right.
Whenever I can do a fresh installation on a new SSD, I will try to build a new machine as GNU/Linux Devuan with TDE from the bottom up.
Bill
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On Friday 19 June 2020 06:34:45 pm William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
Whenever I can do a fresh installation on a new SSD, I will try to build a new machine as GNU/Linux Devuan with TDE from the bottom up.
Hi Bill,
If you can, go NVMe, they're 4-10 times faster than SATA SSDs. *
https://pcpartpicker.com/products/internal-hard-drive/#sort=ppgb&D=1
https://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/ssd.html
It'd probably be worth the cost of a new motherboard, if your current one doesn't support them.
Best, Michael
* Technically they're both SSDs, but different interfaces.
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On Friday 19 June 2020, William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
On Friday 19 June 2020 11:17:22 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Fri, 19 Jun 11:03:09 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Friday 19 June 2020 10:21:32 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 18 Jun 15:19:49 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
This is directed mostly to Nik (since I've heard him mention both Devuan and VLC); but also to anybody else who might have some inkling what is causing this issue.
VLC is (or would be) my media player of choice on most of my machines or devices. I use it on my smartphone, and don't need anything else to play music, movies, stream videos or radio. (I've tried other media players, yes, but they are all inadequate by comparison, at least for my own needs.) So many good things to say about VLC ... until about a year or two ago.
Ever since Jessie it will start up, but then immediately crashes. I've gone through looking for conflicts, but nothing obvious jumps out at me.
Any suggestions about where to look, or what might be causing such an issue?
Bill
Sorry, I think I missed that message. If you have not solved it in the meantime: delete "~/.config/vlc/" and "~/.local/share/vlc"
Nik
Hi Nik!
No problem, as others jumped their suggestions. However I did miss the entry in "~/.local/share/vlc", so that helps me, too. And I did believe that I had resolved the issue, until I tried to play another film; when I tried to load the next item, however, I got the same problems all over again.
I am still fiddling with it, looking for old configurations that used to work, to see if I can somehow adapt the settings, but it seems that VLC has changed something, and whatever has changed now interferes with its operation.
In particular, I notice that I am asked for explicit permission for network access. But I don't stream videos from online sources; I only play local files, and have no need of Internet while I am watching; so that seems unnecessary. I don't remember being asked for such permissions before, but maybe I used my own settings to evade the problem until now?
Anyway, at present I must delete VLC folders, etc., then start over for every time I want to play a film. At least I made some progress: I can use VLC (a little), whereas before yesterday, for a year or more past, I could not use it at all.
Can you start vlc from commandline and post the error message - if any?
Does anybody else remember the promise, that computers would make our lives easier, and give us more free time?
Yes. And the paperfree office. And then they published UT99 :)
Nik
Sorry for the delay in responding. Sometimes I get tired of fighting against the machine.
;-)
Well, so I got it going again, at least operable. I am a hoarder, and in one of my hoards I found some old configuration files for VLC that preserve my settings. I still have some problems playing anything directly from a saved iso, as well as some vobs and mpegs. I checked this with an iso that I created myself (so nothing weird to interfere with playback), and I still have problems with some of them. This doesn't seem right.
I did find out something interesting, though. I have purged everything KDE4/5, as well as any traces of MATE or LXDE or whatever else, and even after purging I still keep finding KDE4/5 krap. It is like being in an abusive relationship. My old desktop doesn't want to let me go, and keeps trying to control me even after I have emotionally moved on to a better desktop.
After getting rid of any lingering KDE4/5 files, I suddenly realized that VLC had been using KDE theme settings, rather than my TDE settings. (When I first installed Debian, I used a DVD that had made KDE5 one of the default choices, so I had to configure KDE Plasma before I could get TDE to work. Now I have got rid of KDE, but it seems not quite.)
So I want to believe that I have it almost rebuilt as I like, but we'll see. At the moment, no errors messages to report, but it's still not running quite right.
Whenever I can do a fresh installation on a new SSD, I will try to build a new machine as GNU/Linux Devuan with TDE from the bottom up.
Bill
I sometimes have strange problems when I try to reuse a user dir in new builds (ghosts in the machine).
When I do is start with clean user and copy over, bit by bit, the config files I need for important stuff like konqueror. Everything else I can just readjust as I go along.
Seems to work well.
Good luck human.
Kate
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On Friday 19 June 2020 20:05:12 BorgLabs - Kate Draven wrote:
On Friday 19 June 2020, William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
*snip*
Whenever I can do a fresh installation on a new SSD, I will try to build a new machine as GNU/Linux Devuan with TDE from the bottom up.
Bill
*snip*
I sometimes have strange problems when I try to reuse a user dir in new builds (ghosts in the machine).
When I do is start with clean user and copy over, bit by bit, the config files I need for important stuff like konqueror. Everything else I can just readjust as I go along.
Seems to work well.
Good luck human.
Kate
Yes, I do the same kind of thing ... sort of ... but after rebuilding machines with the same basic desktop (KDE3x > TDE), I have managed to streamline the process just a bit. I collect the necessary config files (and similar what-nots), save copies to somewhere on an external drive; then, when I reinstall, I just run some scripts/commands, and copy over all my personalized settings.
I try to prune away the rest, but you see there was a period of a few years during which the world was in an even more uncertain situation (i.e., there was no half-decent desktop to replace KDE3), and I engaged in some brief dalliances and flirtations with lesser alternatives.
Then I discovered TDE, and gradually migrated from PC Linux to Kubuntu to Debian and finally to Devuan; where I hope to remain until we humans at someday freed from our enslavement to these machines.
As an unfortunate side-effect, I have picked up a lot of junk from these other sources, even though my desktop now looks almost identical to that which I created back around 2005 or 2006. So my basic idea is the same as yours, just the local circumstances have required me to adapt new methods.
With my present setup, I can now recreate my entire system, with all files, a dozen hard drives, etc.; and it is all contained in a couple flash drives, with backups online as well as cold storage.
If all I have is my memorized master password, then I can still rebuild everything from scratch. Also I have a flash drive that is partitioned like a mini-version of my desktop, which I can use to boot up any working computer, to use as a hardware host, and which will run like my own system.
So when the Zombies come to hunt us down for our brains, I can escape to somewhere that they will *never* look (e.g., a cave up in the mountains, or the public library), and restore my world.
Bill
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On Saturday 20 June 2020, William Morder via trinity-users wrote: "...until we humans at someday freed from our enslavement to these machines."
Never.
But glad to hear you fixed vlc.
Kate
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On Saturday 20 June 2020 14:31:30 BorgLabs - Kate Draven wrote:
On Saturday 20 June 2020, William Morder via trinity-users wrote: "...until we humans at someday freed from our enslavement to these machines."
Never.
But glad to hear you fixed vlc.
Kate
Sorry about that mistake. I need to enable spellchecking for Kmail, as I see a lot of typos or half-unfinished revisions somehow get sent, when I didn't mean it to come out like that.
"at" ought to be "are"
The same goes for two-thirds of my other emails sent to the list. I hate spellcheckers, but I hate mistakes like this even worse.
Bill
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On Saturday 20 June 2020, William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
On Saturday 20 June 2020 14:31:30 BorgLabs - Kate Draven wrote:
On Saturday 20 June 2020, William Morder via trinity-users wrote: "...until we humans at someday freed from our enslavement to these machines."
Never.
But glad to hear you fixed vlc.
Kate
Sorry about that mistake. I need to enable spellchecking for Kmail, as I see a lot of typos or half-unfinished revisions somehow get sent, when I didn't mean it to come out like that.
"at" ought to be "are"
The same goes for two-thirds of my other emails sent to the list. I hate spellcheckers, but I hate mistakes like this even worse.
Bill
Oh no I'm talking about the typos.
I'm talking about you thinking humans will ever be freed from their techno overlords.
Resistance is futile.
Kate
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On Saturday 20 June 2020 15:35:37 BorgLabs - Kate Draven wrote:
On Saturday 20 June 2020, William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
On Saturday 20 June 2020 14:31:30 BorgLabs - Kate Draven wrote:
On Saturday 20 June 2020, William Morder via trinity-users wrote: "...until we humans at someday freed from our enslavement to these machines."
Never.
But glad to hear you fixed vlc.
Kate
Sorry about that mistake. I need to enable spellchecking for Kmail, as I see a lot of typos or half-unfinished revisions somehow get sent, when I didn't mean it to come out like that.
"at" ought to be "are"
The same goes for two-thirds of my other emails sent to the list. I hate spellcheckers, but I hate mistakes like this even worse.
Bill
Oh no I'm talking about the typos.
I'm talking about you thinking humans will ever be freed from their techno overlords.
Resistance is futile.
Kate
Yes, I know what you were talking about. It's just that I am forced to see my own mistakes, which is embarrassing.
We can either outright resist and rebell against our machine masters, or we can learn how they work and get them to do what we want. But we must never let them know that we know.
Bill
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On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 16:34:45 -0700 "William Morder via trinity-users" trinity-users@lists.pearsoncomputing.net wrote:
Well, so I got it going again, at least operable. I am a hoarder, and in one of my hoards I found some old configuration files for VLC that preserve my settings. I still have some problems playing anything directly from a saved iso, as well as some vobs and mpegs. I checked this with an iso that I created myself (so nothing weird to interfere with playback), and I still have problems with some of them. This doesn't seem right.
After getting rid of any lingering KDE4/5 files, I suddenly realized that VLC had been using KDE theme settings, rather than my TDE settings. (When I first installed Debian, I used a DVD that had made KDE5 one of the default choices, so I had to configure KDE Plasma before I could get TDE to work. Now I have got rid of KDE, but it seems not quite.)
VLC has over a hundred (!) compile-time flags governing different features, and an equally complex dependency tree. Your distro probably flipped a couple of things from "off" to "on", or vice-versa. The KDE5 theme stuff is probably being pulled in by the QT5 support, at a guess. In addition, VLC can pull in ffmpeg, which has its own huge assortment of flags that may have been flipped.
(VLC has one of the most terrifying ebuilds I have ever seen. Now I remember why I stick to mplayer. It saves the terror for its man page.)
E. Liddell
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On Saturday 20 June 2020 12:30:44 E. Liddell wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 16:34:45 -0700
"William Morder via trinity-users"
trinity-users@lists.pearsoncomputing.net wrote:
Well, so I got it going again, at least operable. I am a hoarder, and in one of my hoards I found some old configuration files for VLC that preserve my settings. I still have some problems playing anything directly from a saved iso, as well as some vobs and mpegs. I checked this with an iso that I created myself (so nothing weird to interfere with playback), and I still have problems with some of them. This doesn't seem right.
After getting rid of any lingering KDE4/5 files, I suddenly realized that VLC had been using KDE theme settings, rather than my TDE settings. (When I first installed Debian, I used a DVD that had made KDE5 one of the default choices, so I had to configure KDE Plasma before I could get TDE to work. Now I have got rid of KDE, but it seems not quite.)
VLC has over a hundred (!) compile-time flags governing different features, and an equally complex dependency tree. Your distro probably flipped a couple of things from "off" to "on", or vice-versa. The KDE5 theme stuff is probably being pulled in by the QT5 support, at a guess. In addition, VLC can pull in ffmpeg, which has its own huge assortment of flags that may have been flipped.
(VLC has one of the most terrifying ebuilds I have ever seen. Now I remember why I stick to mplayer. It saves the terror for its man page.)
E. Liddell
I also use other media players for other things sometimes, including mplayer and some of its variants. But VLC can do many things that other players can't, so it's useful. The nice thing about running Linux is that we have lots of choices, rather than having our choices made for us.
The same goes for TDE, only more so. When I tried out other desktops, I got annoyed very fast, because there was only so much that I could do to make them like I wanted. Beyond those limits, one dare not go!
Bill
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I don't know if I ought to be concerned or not about this new little glitch. It just started this morning for no apparent reason.
About 1/4 of all my icons get turned black. This happens when I switch screens, for example, but I can't get a screenshot of *that*; so the best I can do to show what I mean is a screenshot inside one of my folders, where you can see most of the icons are turned black.
Not all are turned black, however. I tried to find some common characteristic, but there seems to be none. It is not just folder icons, or icons of packages, or icons of a certain kind of file, or anything that I can tell. This also occurs in icons when I am switching screens, or the view within folders, and it also occurs in some of the icons that are incorporated within the folder view -- for example, in the border of some windows.
It doesn't seem to affect anything else. It's just annoying, and I don't like not knowing the cause, or how to fix it.
Any ideas what's causing this thing?
Bill
P.S. See attachment for a screenshot.
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Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not of my own making; unless of course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd devuan dissidents.
So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to connect; not because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When I was running Jessie, over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to fight it out, and I couldn't figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh installation, I would be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On the whole, I ended up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at least I could connect, and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of preference. One thing I did notice, though, is that wicd somehow would assume root privileges, even though I did not run it as root.
Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use tdenetworkmanager, but now I get these error messages. I list them in order of discovery:
1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager (Yeah, I knew that, but huh?) The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it is not going to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. 2 - Let's grab that dependency ... The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
3 - Let's try to build-dep ... The following packages have unmet dependencies: builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it is not going to be installed Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable
4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager? The following packages have unmet dependencies: builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it is not going to be installed Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at least has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when I've had issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of the past couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because technically TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan Beowulf; they are the same, mostly, but not always.
Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go offline. When I try, I usually find that I still have an active connection that won't die; when I do succeed in going offline, after that I cannot get back online, but must reboot in order to get a connection again.
My verdict is, something's wrong.
Bill
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Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700 William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not of my own making; unless of course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd devuan dissidents.
So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to connect; not because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When I was running Jessie, over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to fight it out, and I couldn't figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh installation, I would be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On the whole, I ended up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at least I could connect, and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of preference. One thing I did notice, though, is that wicd somehow would assume root privileges, even though I did not run it as root.
Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use tdenetworkmanager, but now I get these error messages. I list them in order of discovery:
1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager (Yeah, I knew that, but huh?) The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it is not going to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. 2 - Let's grab that dependency ... The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
3 - Let's try to build-dep ... The following packages have unmet dependencies: builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it is not going to be installed Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable
4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager? The following packages have unmet dependencies: builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it is not going to be installed Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at least has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when I've had issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of the past couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because technically TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan Beowulf; they are the same, mostly, but not always.
Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go offline. When I try, I usually find that I still have an active connection that won't die; when I do succeed in going offline, after that I cannot get back online, but must reboot in order to get a connection again.
My verdict is, something's wrong.
:)
tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I found when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd dependecy when you are on devuan. Could you check if that you do not have accidentally activated some debian repository?
Nik
Bill
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On Tuesday 01 September 2020 05:30:03 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not of my own making; unless of course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd devuan dissidents.
So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to connect; not because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When I was running Jessie, over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to fight it out, and I couldn't figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh installation, I would be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On the whole, I ended up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at least I could connect, and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of preference. One thing I did notice, though, is that wicd somehow would assume root privileges, even though I did not run it as root.
Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use tdenetworkmanager, but now I get these error messages. I list them in order of discovery:
1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager (Yeah, I knew that, but huh?) The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it is not going to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. 2 - Let's grab that dependency ... The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
3 - Let's try to build-dep ... The following packages have unmet dependencies: builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it is not going to be installed Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable
4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager? The following packages have unmet dependencies: builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it is not going to be installed Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at least has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when I've had issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of the past couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because technically TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan Beowulf; they are the same, mostly, but not always.
Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go offline. When I try, I usually find that I still have an active connection that won't die; when I do succeed in going offline, after that I cannot get back online, but must reboot in order to get a connection again.
My verdict is, something's wrong.
:)
tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I found when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd dependecy when you are on devuan. Could you check if that you do not have accidentally activated some debian repository?
Nik
Bill
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that is, for Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget) I could disable them unless I need a specific package; but I seem to recall that apt would try to uninstall whatever it was, if the repo is not enabled. deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
the repos for Vivaldi (but I could disable these unless I want to upgrade) deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/snapshot/deb/ stable main
the Tor project
deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main deb-src http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
Maybe Trinity itself, as I wasn't sure whether to insert Buster or Beowulf. I noticed some repositories seem to redirect, but others want it specified, one or the other. When I read the instructions and comments on the wiki page, it said something about devuan users should "just use debian", etc.
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster main deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster main deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debia... buster main deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debia... buster main
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14 deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14
Bill
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On Tuesday 01 September 2020 05:30:03 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not of my own making; unless of course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd devuan dissidents.
So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to connect; not because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When I was running Jessie, over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to fight it out, and I couldn't figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh installation, I would be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On the whole, I ended up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at least I could connect, and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of preference. One thing I did notice, though, is that wicd somehow would assume root privileges, even though I did not run it as root.
Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use tdenetworkmanager, but now I get these error messages. I list them in order of discovery:
1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager (Yeah, I knew that, but huh?) The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it is not going to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. 2 - Let's grab that dependency ... The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
3 - Let's try to build-dep ... The following packages have unmet dependencies: builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it is not going to be installed Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable
4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager? The following packages have unmet dependencies: builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it is not going to be installed Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at least has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when I've had issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of the past couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because technically TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan Beowulf; they are the same, mostly, but not always.
Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go offline. When I try, I usually find that I still have an active connection that won't die; when I do succeed in going offline, after that I cannot get back online, but must reboot in order to get a connection again.
My verdict is, something's wrong.
:)
tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I found when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd dependecy when you are on devuan. Could you check if that you do not have accidentally activated some debian repository?
Nik
Bill
So, I tried to change the Trinity repos from Buster to Beowulf, updated my sources.list, and that didn't work at all. Trinity only recognizes Buster. I also tried to "pin" the packages to Beowulf (using the option -t beowulf in apt-get), to no avail.
The problem currently remains the same, as related below.
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that is, for Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget) I could disable them unless I need a specific package; but I seem to recall that apt would try to uninstall whatever it was, if the repo is not enabled. deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
the repos for Vivaldi (but I could disable these unless I want to upgrade) deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/snapshot/deb/ stable main
the Tor project
deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main deb-src http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
Maybe Trinity itself, as I wasn't sure whether to insert Buster or Beowulf. I noticed some repositories seem to redirect, but others want it specified, one or the other. When I read the instructions and comments on the wiki page, it said something about devuan users should "just use debian", etc.
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster main deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster main deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debia... buster main deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debia... buster main
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14 deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14
Bill
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Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 06:39:01 -0700 William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 05:30:03 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not of my own making; unless of course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd devuan dissidents.
So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to connect; not because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When I was running Jessie, over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to fight it out, and I couldn't figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh installation, I would be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On the whole, I ended up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at least I could connect, and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of preference. One thing I did notice, though, is that wicd somehow would assume root privileges, even though I did not run it as root.
Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use tdenetworkmanager, but now I get these error messages. I list them in order of discovery:
1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager (Yeah, I knew that, but huh?) The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it is not going to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. 2 - Let's grab that dependency ... The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
3 - Let's try to build-dep ... The following packages have unmet dependencies: builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it is not going to be installed Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable
4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager? The following packages have unmet dependencies: builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it is not going to be installed Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at least has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when I've had issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of the past couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because technically TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan Beowulf; they are the same, mostly, but not always.
Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go offline. When I try, I usually find that I still have an active connection that won't die; when I do succeed in going offline, after that I cannot get back online, but must reboot in order to get a connection again.
My verdict is, something's wrong.
:)
tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I found when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd dependecy when you are on devuan. Could you check if that you do not have accidentally activated some debian repository?
Nik
Bill
So, I tried to change the Trinity repos from Buster to Beowulf, updated my sources.list, and that didn't work at all. Trinity only recognizes Buster. I also tried to "pin" the packages to Beowulf (using the option -t beowulf in apt-get), to no avail.
The Beowul repo for trinity is just a link to the Buster Repo. Just use Buster, it's OK.
The problem currently remains the same, as related below.
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that is, for Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
Ok. That is most likely your troublemaker. You'll need to get rid of all packages from that repo - that will cause some TDE packags to be removed, too, due to dependencies. Identify one of the deb-multimedia packages, then use "apt-show-versions" (most likely you'll need to install it first) and grep for the extensions. This is a tediouse process, I've been through it a couple of times. The only thing you maybe miss is libdvdcss2. I think I installed it from the sources.
Nik
I could disable them unless I need a specific package; but I seem to recall that apt would try to uninstall whatever it was, if the repo is not enabled. deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
the repos for Vivaldi (but I could disable these unless I want to upgrade) deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/snapshot/deb/ stable main
the Tor project
deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main deb-src http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
Maybe Trinity itself, as I wasn't sure whether to insert Buster or Beowulf. I noticed some repositories seem to redirect, but others want it specified, one or the other. When I read the instructions and comments on the wiki page, it said something about devuan users should "just use debian", etc.
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster main deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster main deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debia... buster main deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debia... buster main
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14 deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14
Bill
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On Tuesday 01 September 2020 09:33:08 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 06:39:01 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 05:30:03 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not of my own making; unless of course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd devuan dissidents.
So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to connect; not because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When I was running Jessie, over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to fight it out, and I couldn't figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh installation, I would be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On the whole, I ended up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at least I could connect, and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of preference. One thing I did notice, though, is that wicd somehow would assume root privileges, even though I did not run it as root.
Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use tdenetworkmanager, but now I get these error messages. I list them in order of discovery:
1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager (Yeah, I knew that, but huh?) The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it is not going to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. 2 - Let's grab that dependency ... The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
3 - Let's try to build-dep ... The following packages have unmet dependencies: builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it is not going to be installed Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable
4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager? The following packages have unmet dependencies: builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it is not going to be installed Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at least has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when I've had issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of the past couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because technically TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan Beowulf; they are the same, mostly, but not always.
Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go offline. When I try, I usually find that I still have an active connection that won't die; when I do succeed in going offline, after that I cannot get back online, but must reboot in order to get a connection again.
My verdict is, something's wrong.
:)
tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I found when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd dependecy when you are on devuan. Could you check if that you do not have accidentally activated some debian repository?
Nik
Bill
So, I tried to change the Trinity repos from Buster to Beowulf, updated my sources.list, and that didn't work at all. Trinity only recognizes Buster. I also tried to "pin" the packages to Beowulf (using the option -t beowulf in apt-get), to no avail.
The Beowul repo for trinity is just a link to the Buster Repo. Just use Buster, it's OK.
The problem currently remains the same, as related below.
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that is, for Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
Ok. That is most likely your troublemaker. You'll need to get rid of all packages from that repo - that will cause some TDE packags to be removed, too, due to dependencies. Identify one of the deb-multimedia packages, then use "apt-show-versions" (most likely you'll need to install it first) and grep for the extensions. This is a tediouse process, I've been through it a couple of times. The only thing you maybe miss is libdvdcss2. I think I installed it from the sources.
Nik
Nope. Nothing was installed from that repo (yet), and now it's disabled, once again I updated the sources.list, but apt-get keeps returning the same message:
The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
Bill
I could disable them unless I need a specific package; but I seem to recall that apt would try to uninstall whatever it was, if the repo is not enabled. deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
the repos for Vivaldi (but I could disable these unless I want to upgrade) deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/snapshot/deb/ stable main
the Tor project
deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main deb-src http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
Maybe Trinity itself, as I wasn't sure whether to insert Buster or Beowulf. I noticed some repositories seem to redirect, but others want it specified, one or the other. When I read the instructions and comments on the wiki page, it said something about devuan users should "just use debian", etc.
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster main deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster main deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/de bian buster main deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/de bian buster main
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14 deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14
Bill
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Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 12:25:43 -0700 William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 09:33:08 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 06:39:01 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 05:30:03 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not of my own making; unless of course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd devuan dissidents.
So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to connect; not because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When I was running Jessie, over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to fight it out, and I couldn't figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh installation, I would be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On the whole, I ended up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at least I could connect, and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of preference. One thing I did notice, though, is that wicd somehow would assume root privileges, even though I did not run it as root.
Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use tdenetworkmanager, but now I get these error messages. I list them in order of discovery:
1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager (Yeah, I knew that, but huh?) The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it is not going to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. 2 - Let's grab that dependency ... The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
3 - Let's try to build-dep ... The following packages have unmet dependencies: builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it is not going to be installed Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable
4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager? The following packages have unmet dependencies: builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it is not going to be installed Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at least has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when I've had issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of the past couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because technically TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan Beowulf; they are the same, mostly, but not always.
Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go offline. When I try, I usually find that I still have an active connection that won't die; when I do succeed in going offline, after that I cannot get back online, but must reboot in order to get a connection again.
My verdict is, something's wrong.
:)
tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I found when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd dependecy when you are on devuan. Could you check if that you do not have accidentally activated some debian repository?
Nik
Bill
So, I tried to change the Trinity repos from Buster to Beowulf, updated my sources.list, and that didn't work at all. Trinity only recognizes Buster. I also tried to "pin" the packages to Beowulf (using the option -t beowulf in apt-get), to no avail.
The Beowul repo for trinity is just a link to the Buster Repo. Just use Buster, it's OK.
The problem currently remains the same, as related below.
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that is, for Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
Ok. That is most likely your troublemaker. You'll need to get rid of all packages from that repo - that will cause some TDE packags to be removed, too, due to dependencies. Identify one of the deb-multimedia packages, then use "apt-show-versions" (most likely you'll need to install it first) and grep for the extensions. This is a tediouse process, I've been through it a couple of times. The only thing you maybe miss is libdvdcss2. I think I installed it from the sources.
Nik
Nope. Nothing was installed from that repo (yet), and now it's disabled, once again I updated the sources.list, but apt-get keeps returning the same message:
The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
Bill
I could disable them unless I need a specific package; but I seem to recall that apt would try to uninstall whatever it was, if the repo is not enabled. deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
the repos for Vivaldi (but I could disable these unless I want to upgrade) deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/snapshot/deb/ stable main
the Tor project
deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main deb-src http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
Maybe Trinity itself, as I wasn't sure whether to insert Buster or Beowulf. I noticed some repositories seem to redirect, but others want it specified, one or the other. When I read the instructions and comments on the wiki page, it said something about devuan users should "just use debian", etc.
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster main deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster main deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/de bian buster main deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/de bian buster main
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14 deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14
Bill
Let's check: I get these dependencies for network-mananger. As you see, it's homepage is the lore of GNOMEs, so it's deeply entangled with systemd. libsystemd0 is a functionless wrapper (on devuan) and libpam-systemd is a dummy. If you want to use it, you'll need these 2 packages, too. But I don't see systemd in my list.
$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show network-manager Package: network-manager Version: 1.14.6-2+deb10u1 State: installed Automatically installed: yes Priority: optional Section: net Maintainer: Utopia Maintenance Team pkg-utopia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org Architecture: amd64 Uncompressed Size: 11,9 M Depends: libaudit1 (>= 1:2.2.1), libbluetooth3 (>= 4.91), libc6 (>= 2.26), libcurl3-gnutls (>= 7.16.3), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.43.2), libgnutls30 (>= 3.6.5), libjansson4 (>= 2.0.1), libmm-glib0 (>= 1.0.0), libndp0 (>= 1.2), libnewt0.52 (>= 0.52.20), libnm0 (= 1.14.6-2+deb10u1), libpolkit-agent-1-0 (>= 0.99), libpolkit-gobject-1-0 (>= 0.104), libpsl5 (>= 0.13.0), libreadline7 (>= 6.0), libselinux1 (>= 1.32), libsystemd0 (>= 221), libteamdctl0 (>= 1.9), libudev1 (>= 183), libuuid1 (>= 2.16), lsb-base, wpasupplicant, dbus, udev, adduser, libpam-systemd, policykit-1 PreDepends: init-system-helpers (>= 1.54~) Recommends: ppp, dnsmasq-base, iptables, modemmanager, crda, isc-dhcp-client Suggests: libteam-utils Conflicts: network-manager:i386 Breaks: ppp (>= 2.4.7-3~), ppp:i386 (>= 2.4.7-3~), ppp (< 2.4.7-2+~), ppp:i386 (< 2.4.7-2+~) Description: network management framework (daemon and userspace tools)
Homepage: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/NetworkManager Tags: implemented-in::c, interface::daemon, network::configuration, protocol::dhcp, protocol::ip, role::program, use::configuring
nik@t61:~$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show libpam-systemd No candidate version found for libpam-systemd Package: libpam-systemd State: not a real package Provided by: libpam-elogind (241.4-2) nik@t61:~$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show libsystemd0 Package: libsystemd0 Version: 241-7~deb10u4 State: not installed Multi-Arch: same Priority: optional Section: libs Maintainer: Debian systemd Maintainers pkg-systemd-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org Architecture: amd64 Uncompressed Size: 786 k PreDepends: libc6 (>= 2.28), libgcrypt20 (>= 1.8.0), liblz4-1 (>= 0.0~r122), liblzma5 (>= 5.1.1alpha+20120614) Breaks: libsystemd0:i386 (!= 241-7~deb10u4) Replaces: libsystemd0:i386 (< 241-7~deb10u4) Provided by: libelogind0 (241.4-2) Description: systemd utility library
Homepage: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd Tags: role::shared-lib
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On Tuesday 01 September 2020 12:51:40 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 12:25:43 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 09:33:08 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 06:39:01 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 05:30:03 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not of my own making; unless of course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd devuan dissidents.
So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to connect; not because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When I was running Jessie, over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to fight it out, and I couldn't figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh installation, I would be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On the whole, I ended up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at least I could connect, and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of preference. One thing I did notice, though, is that wicd somehow would assume root privileges, even though I did not run it as root.
Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use tdenetworkmanager, but now I get these error messages. I list them in order of discovery:
1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager (Yeah, I knew that, but huh?) The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it is not going to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. 2 - Let's grab that dependency ... The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
3 - Let's try to build-dep ... The following packages have unmet dependencies: builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it is not going to be installed Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable
4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager? The following packages have unmet dependencies: builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it is not going to be installed Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at least has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when I've had issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of the past couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because technically TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan Beowulf; they are the same, mostly, but not always.
Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go offline. When I try, I usually find that I still have an active connection that won't die; when I do succeed in going offline, after that I cannot get back online, but must reboot in order to get a connection again.
My verdict is, something's wrong.
:)
tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I found when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd dependecy when you are on devuan. Could you check if that you do not have accidentally activated some debian repository?
Nik
Bill
So, I tried to change the Trinity repos from Buster to Beowulf, updated my sources.list, and that didn't work at all. Trinity only recognizes Buster. I also tried to "pin" the packages to Beowulf (using the option -t beowulf in apt-get), to no avail.
The Beowul repo for trinity is just a link to the Buster Repo. Just use Buster, it's OK.
The problem currently remains the same, as related below.
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that is, for Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
Ok. That is most likely your troublemaker. You'll need to get rid of all packages from that repo - that will cause some TDE packags to be removed, too, due to dependencies. Identify one of the deb-multimedia packages, then use "apt-show-versions" (most likely you'll need to install it first) and grep for the extensions. This is a tediouse process, I've been through it a couple of times. The only thing you maybe miss is libdvdcss2. I think I installed it from the sources.
Nik
Nope. Nothing was installed from that repo (yet), and now it's disabled, once again I updated the sources.list, but apt-get keeps returning the same message:
The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
Bill
I could disable them unless I need a specific package; but I seem to recall that apt would try to uninstall whatever it was, if the repo is not enabled. deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
the repos for Vivaldi (but I could disable these unless I want to upgrade) deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/snapshot/deb/ stable main
the Tor project
deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main deb-src http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
Maybe Trinity itself, as I wasn't sure whether to insert Buster or Beowulf. I noticed some repositories seem to redirect, but others want it specified, one or the other. When I read the instructions and comments on the wiki page, it said something about devuan users should "just use debian", etc.
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster main deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster main deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0. 0/de bian buster main deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0. 0/de bian buster main
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14 deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14
Bill
Let's check: I get these dependencies for network-mananger. As you see, it's homepage is the lore of GNOMEs, so it's deeply entangled with systemd. libsystemd0 is a functionless wrapper (on devuan) and libpam-systemd is a dummy. If you want to use it, you'll need these 2 packages, too. But I don't see systemd in my list.
$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show network-manager Package: network-manager Version: 1.14.6-2+deb10u1 State: installed Automatically installed: yes Priority: optional Section: net Maintainer: Utopia Maintenance Team pkg-utopia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org Architecture: amd64 Uncompressed Size: 11,9 M Depends: libaudit1 (>= 1:2.2.1), libbluetooth3 (>= 4.91), libc6 (>= 2.26), libcurl3-gnutls (>= 7.16.3), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.43.2), libgnutls30 (>= 3.6.5), libjansson4 (>= 2.0.1), libmm-glib0 (>= 1.0.0), libndp0 (>= 1.2), libnewt0.52 (>= 0.52.20), libnm0 (= 1.14.6-2+deb10u1), libpolkit-agent-1-0 (>= 0.99), libpolkit-gobject-1-0 (>= 0.104), libpsl5 (>= 0.13.0), libreadline7 (>= 6.0), libselinux1 (>= 1.32), libsystemd0 (>= 221), libteamdctl0 (>= 1.9), libudev1 (>= 183), libuuid1 (>= 2.16), lsb-base, wpasupplicant, dbus, udev, adduser, libpam-systemd, policykit-1 PreDepends: init-system-helpers (>= 1.54~) Recommends: ppp, dnsmasq-base, iptables, modemmanager, crda, isc-dhcp-client Suggests: libteam-utils Conflicts: network-manager:i386 Breaks: ppp (>= 2.4.7-3~), ppp:i386 (>= 2.4.7-3~), ppp (< 2.4.7-2+~), ppp:i386 (< 2.4.7-2+~) Description: network management framework (daemon and userspace tools)
Homepage: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/NetworkManager Tags: implemented-in::c, interface::daemon, network::configuration, protocol::dhcp, protocol::ip, role::program, use::configuring
nik@t61:~$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show libpam-systemd No candidate version found for libpam-systemd Package: libpam-systemd State: not a real package Provided by: libpam-elogind (241.4-2) nik@t61:~$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show libsystemd0 Package: libsystemd0 Version: 241-7~deb10u4 State: not installed Multi-Arch: same Priority: optional Section: libs Maintainer: Debian systemd Maintainers pkg-systemd-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org Architecture: amd64 Uncompressed Size: 786 k PreDepends: libc6 (>= 2.28), libgcrypt20 (>= 1.8.0), liblz4-1 (>= 0.0~r122), liblzma5 (>= 5.1.1alpha+20120614) Breaks: libsystemd0:i386 (!= 241-7~deb10u4) Replaces: libsystemd0:i386 (< 241-7~deb10u4) Provided by: libelogind0 (241.4-2) Description: systemd utility library
Homepage: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd Tags: role::shared-lib
That's all very interesting, but I still can't install the tdenetworkmanager.
:->
If it is just a wrapper, and not an actual package, then why can we have some sort of wrapper-systemd-trinity to circumvent the issue? Or why does tdenetworkmanager have to depend on outside packages at all?
As for wicd, it would be an adequate replacement in the meanwhile, but even wicd is only half-working, since now I must reboot a few times every day, just because I want to switch from online to offline, then switch back again.
Bill
Bill
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Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 12:59:58 -0700 William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 12:51:40 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 12:25:43 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 09:33:08 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 06:39:01 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 05:30:03 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit: > Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not of my own > making; unless of course you mean that I am one of those > no-systemd devuan dissidents. > > So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to > connect; not because I prefer it, but only because it's there. > When I was running Jessie, over the past few years > tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to fight it out, and I couldn't > figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh installation, I would > be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On the whole, I > ended up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at least I > could connect, and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of > preference. One thing I did notice, though, is that wicd somehow > would assume root privileges, even though I did not run it as > root. > > Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use > tdenetworkmanager, but now I get these error messages. I list > them in order of discovery: > > 1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager > (Yeah, I knew that, but huh?) > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it > is not going to be installed > E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. > 2 - Let's grab that dependency ... > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd > > 3 - Let's try to build-dep ... > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= > 0.97) but it is not going to be installed > Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not > installable > > 4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager? > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= > 0.97) but it is not going to be installed > Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is > not installable > E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. > > So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order > to run tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line > voodoo to force installation, ignore held packages, all that good > stuff. > > I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at > least has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when > I've had issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 > of the past couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because > technically TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan > Beowulf; they are the same, mostly, but not always. > > Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go > offline. When I try, I usually find that I still have an active > connection that won't die; when I do succeed in going offline, > after that I cannot get back online, but must reboot in order to > get a connection again. > > My verdict is, something's wrong. > :)
tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I found when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd dependecy when you are on devuan. Could you check if that you do not have accidentally activated some debian repository?
Nik
> Bill
So, I tried to change the Trinity repos from Buster to Beowulf, updated my sources.list, and that didn't work at all. Trinity only recognizes Buster. I also tried to "pin" the packages to Beowulf (using the option -t beowulf in apt-get), to no avail.
The Beowul repo for trinity is just a link to the Buster Repo. Just use Buster, it's OK.
The problem currently remains the same, as related below.
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that is, for Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
Ok. That is most likely your troublemaker. You'll need to get rid of all packages from that repo - that will cause some TDE packags to be removed, too, due to dependencies. Identify one of the deb-multimedia packages, then use "apt-show-versions" (most likely you'll need to install it first) and grep for the extensions. This is a tediouse process, I've been through it a couple of times. The only thing you maybe miss is libdvdcss2. I think I installed it from the sources.
Nik
Nope. Nothing was installed from that repo (yet), and now it's disabled, once again I updated the sources.list, but apt-get keeps returning the same message:
The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
Bill
I could disable them unless I need a specific package; but I seem to recall that apt would try to uninstall whatever it was, if the repo is not enabled. deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
the repos for Vivaldi (but I could disable these unless I want to upgrade) deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/snapshot/deb/ stable main
the Tor project
deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main deb-src http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
Maybe Trinity itself, as I wasn't sure whether to insert Buster or Beowulf. I noticed some repositories seem to redirect, but others want it specified, one or the other. When I read the instructions and comments on the wiki page, it said something about devuan users should "just use debian", etc.
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster main deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster main deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0. 0/de bian buster main deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0. 0/de bian buster main
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14 deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14
Bill
Let's check: I get these dependencies for network-mananger. As you see, it's homepage is the lore of GNOMEs, so it's deeply entangled with systemd. libsystemd0 is a functionless wrapper (on devuan) and libpam-systemd is a dummy. If you want to use it, you'll need these 2 packages, too. But I don't see systemd in my list.
$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show network-manager Package: network-manager Version: 1.14.6-2+deb10u1 State: installed Automatically installed: yes Priority: optional Section: net Maintainer: Utopia Maintenance Team pkg-utopia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org Architecture: amd64 Uncompressed Size: 11,9 M Depends: libaudit1 (>= 1:2.2.1), libbluetooth3 (>= 4.91), libc6 (>= 2.26), libcurl3-gnutls (>= 7.16.3), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.43.2), libgnutls30 (>= 3.6.5), libjansson4 (>= 2.0.1), libmm-glib0 (>= 1.0.0), libndp0 (>= 1.2), libnewt0.52 (>= 0.52.20), libnm0 (= 1.14.6-2+deb10u1), libpolkit-agent-1-0 (>= 0.99), libpolkit-gobject-1-0 (>= 0.104), libpsl5 (>= 0.13.0), libreadline7 (>= 6.0), libselinux1 (>= 1.32), libsystemd0 (>= 221), libteamdctl0 (>= 1.9), libudev1 (>= 183), libuuid1 (>= 2.16), lsb-base, wpasupplicant, dbus, udev, adduser, libpam-systemd, policykit-1 PreDepends: init-system-helpers (>= 1.54~) Recommends: ppp, dnsmasq-base, iptables, modemmanager, crda, isc-dhcp-client Suggests: libteam-utils Conflicts: network-manager:i386 Breaks: ppp (>= 2.4.7-3~), ppp:i386 (>= 2.4.7-3~), ppp (< 2.4.7-2+~), ppp:i386 (< 2.4.7-2+~) Description: network management framework (daemon and userspace tools)
Homepage: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/NetworkManager Tags: implemented-in::c, interface::daemon, network::configuration, protocol::dhcp, protocol::ip, role::program, use::configuring
nik@t61:~$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show libpam-systemd No candidate version found for libpam-systemd Package: libpam-systemd State: not a real package Provided by: libpam-elogind (241.4-2) nik@t61:~$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show libsystemd0 Package: libsystemd0 Version: 241-7~deb10u4 State: not installed Multi-Arch: same Priority: optional Section: libs Maintainer: Debian systemd Maintainers pkg-systemd-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org Architecture: amd64 Uncompressed Size: 786 k PreDepends: libc6 (>= 2.28), libgcrypt20 (>= 1.8.0), liblz4-1 (>= 0.0~r122), liblzma5 (>= 5.1.1alpha+20120614) Breaks: libsystemd0:i386 (!= 241-7~deb10u4) Replaces: libsystemd0:i386 (< 241-7~deb10u4) Provided by: libelogind0 (241.4-2) Description: systemd utility library
Homepage: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd Tags: role::shared-lib
That's all very interesting, but I still can't install the tdenetworkmanager.
:->
If it is just a wrapper, and not an actual package, then why can we have some sort of wrapper-systemd-trinity to circumvent the issue? Or why does tdenetworkmanager have to depend on outside packages at all?
As for wicd, it would be an adequate replacement in the meanwhile, but even wicd is only half-working, since now I must reboot a few times every day, just because I want to switch from online to offline, then switch back again.
Bill
This is also in my system:
# cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01norecommend APT::Install-Recommends "false"; APT::Install-Suggests "false"; APT::AutoRemove::RecommendsImportant "false"; APT::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant "false";
Bill
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On Tuesday 01 of September 2020 21:25:43 William Morder via trinity-users via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 09:33:08 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
. . The Beowul repo for trinity is just a link to the Buster Repo. Just use Buster, it's OK.
The problem currently remains the same, as related below.
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that is, for Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
Ok. That is most likely your troublemaker. You'll need to get rid of all packages from that repo - that will cause some TDE packags to be removed, too, due to dependencies. Identify one of the deb-multimedia packages, then use "apt-show-versions" (most likely you'll need to install it first) and grep for the extensions. This is a tediouse process, I've been through it a couple of times. The only thing you maybe miss is libdvdcss2. I think I installed it from the sources.
Nik
Nope. Nothing was installed from that repo (yet), and now it's disabled, once again I updated the sources.list, but apt-get keeps returning the same message:
The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
I did make the arrangements so that I could create a built-root for Beowulf and test how it is with the network-manager package.
I can confirm that network-manager does contain a dependency on libpam-systemd. However, it is clear that this dependency can be met by installing the libpam-elogind package. To my surprise, libpam-elogind reported a missing dependency because the required libelogind0 package conflicted with the installed libsystemd0. After replacing libsystemd0 with libelogind0, it was possible to continue.
Note: For just such cases, I use aptitude in interactive mode, because everything can be elegantly found and solved there.
Bill
Cheers
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 12:51:54 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
libelogind0
NOTE: For some reason, none of the text of Slavek's message was copied into this reply, except the two lines quoted above. I have copied and pasted below, just to provide context.
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that is, for Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
Ok. That is most likely your troublemaker. You'll need to get rid of all packages from that repo - that will cause some TDE packags to be removed, too, due to dependencies. Identify one of the deb-multimedia packages, then use "apt-show-versions" (most likely you'll need to install it first) and grep for the extensions. This is a tediouse process, I've been through it a couple of times. The only thing you maybe miss is libdvdcss2. I think I installed it from the sources.
Nik
Nope. Nothing was installed from that repo (yet), and now it's disabled, once again I updated the sources.list, but apt-get keeps returning the same message:
The following packages have unmet dependencies: network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
quoted ####### I did make the arrangements so that I could create a built-root for Beowulf and test how it is with the network-manager package.
I can confirm that network-manager does contain a dependency on libpam-systemd. However, it is clear that this dependency can be met by installing the libpam-elogind package. To my surprise, libpam-elogind reported a missing dependency because the required libelogind0 package conflicted with the installed libsystemd0. After replacing libsystemd0 with libelogind0, it was possible to continue.
Note: For just such cases, I use aptitude in interactive mode, because everything can be elegantly found and solved there. #######
I don't normally use aptitude or other tools like it (synaptic, etc.). Since I started using apt-get, I have quite forgotten how they even work. But I suppose I could give it a try.
Bill
Cheers
On Tuesday 01 of September 2020 22:20:24 William Morder via trinity-users via tde-users wrote:
Okay, so that did work, and I now have network-manager-tde and network-manager, so that's great.
Now, on the down side, gufw was removed, which leaves me without a gui firewall. (There was an earlier discussion about this matter, firestarter being replaced by gufw.
gufw : Depends: gir1.2-webkit-3.0 but it is not going to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
I could stick with just plain ufw, but as I explained, I want to see my connections in real time.)
Two steps forward, one step back.
Bill
On my test machine in Devuan Beowulf I see gufw version 18.10.0, which depends on gir1.2-webkit2-4.0 - everything available, no conflict preventing installation.
Cheers
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 6:39 AM, William Morder via trinity-users trinity-users@lists.pearsoncomputing.net wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday 01 September 2020 05:30:03 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: > > > Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700 > > William Morder via trinity-users scripsit: > > > > > Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not of my own making; > > > unless of course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd devuan > > > dissidents. > > > So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to connect; > > > not because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When I was running > > > Jessie, over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to > > > fight it out, and I couldn't figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh > > > installation, I would be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On > > > the whole, I ended up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at > > > least I could connect, and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of > > > preference. One thing I did notice, though, is that wicd somehow would > > > assume root privileges, even though I did not run it as root. > > > Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use tdenetworkmanager, > > > but now I get these error messages. I list them in order of discovery: > > > 1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager > > > (Yeah, I knew that, but huh?) > > > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > > > network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it is not > > > going to be installed > > > E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. > > > 2 - Let's grab that dependency ... > > > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > > > network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd > > > 3 - Let's try to build-dep ... > > > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > > > builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but > > > it is not going to be installed > > > Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not > > > installable > > > 4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager? > > > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > > > builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but > > > it is not going to be installed > > > Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not > > > installable > > > E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. > > > So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run > > > tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force > > > installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff. > > > I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at least > > > has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when I've had > > > issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of the past > > > couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because technically > > > TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan Beowulf; they are the > > > same, mostly, but not always. > > > Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go offline. When > > > I try, I usually find that I still have an active connection that won't > > > die; when I do succeed in going offline, after that I cannot get back > > > online, but must reboot in order to get a connection again. > > > My verdict is, something's wrong. > > > > :) > > tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I found > > when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd dependecy when you are > > on devuan. Could you check if that you do not have accidentally activated > > some debian repository? > > Nik > > > > > Bill > > So, I tried to change the Trinity repos from Buster to Beowulf, updated my > sources.list, and that didn't work at all. Trinity only recognizes Buster. I > also tried to "pin" the packages to Beowulf (using the option -t beowulf in > apt-get), to no avail. > > The problem currently remains the same, as related below. > > Hi Nik! Thanks for your help. > > Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that is, for > Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below). > > deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget) > I could disable them unless I need a specific package; but I seem to recall > that apt would try to uninstall whatever it was, if the repo is not enabled. > deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main > deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main > > the repos for Vivaldi (but I could disable these unless I want to upgrade) > deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/snapshot/deb/ stable main > > the Tor project > > deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main > deb-src http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main > > Maybe Trinity itself, as I wasn't sure whether to insert Buster or Beowulf. I > noticed some repositories seem to redirect, but others want it specified, one > or the other. When I read the instructions and comments on the wiki page, it > said something about devuan users should "just use debian", etc. > > deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster > main > deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian > buster main > deb > http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debia... > buster main > deb-src > http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debia... > buster main > > deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14 > deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 > deps-r14 > > Bill
1. I used debmultimedia for one app, libdvdcss, disabled it afterwards. I use dselect, it shows up as an obsolete pkg, does not offer to revove pkg. debmultimedia caused me to many problens.
2.Held packages(s). I used apt-preferences to manage versions of apps, helped me keep track of versions.
3. No viscious depends/remove cycles with network-manager-(tde) here, my tdebase install uses devuans default wicad. I do not have network-manager-tde installed on any of my TDE installs, use network-manager
greg
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 11:58:38 greg wrote:
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 6:39 AM, William Morder via trinity-users trinity-users@lists.pearsoncomputing.net wrote:
- I used debmultimedia for one app, libdvdcss, disabled it afterwards. I
use dselect, it shows up as an obsolete pkg, does not offer to revove pkg. debmultimedia caused me to many problens.
2.Held packages(s). I used apt-preferences to manage versions of apps, helped me keep track of versions.
- No viscious depends/remove cycles with network-manager-(tde) here, my
tdebase install uses devuans default wicad. I do not have network-manager-tde installed on any of my TDE installs, use network-manager
greg
I cannot install network-manager; that's why I can't install network-manager-tde, which depends on network-manager.
It is network-manager that calls for systemd.
Bill
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Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 12:45:07 -0700 William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 11:58:38 greg wrote:
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 6:39 AM, William Morder via trinity-users trinity-users@lists.pearsoncomputing.net wrote:
- I used debmultimedia for one app, libdvdcss, disabled it afterwards. I
use dselect, it shows up as an obsolete pkg, does not offer to revove pkg. debmultimedia caused me to many problens.
2.Held packages(s). I used apt-preferences to manage versions of apps, helped me keep track of versions.
- No viscious depends/remove cycles with network-manager-(tde) here, my
tdebase install uses devuans default wicad. I do not have network-manager-tde installed on any of my TDE installs, use network-manager
greg
I cannot install network-manager; that's why I can't install network-manager-tde, which depends on network-manager.
It is network-manager that calls for systemd.
I have it, but I have not installed anything systemd - might be that I used some black magic:
$ dpkg -l|grep systemd $ dpkg -l|grep network-manager ii network-manager 1.14.6-2+deb10u1 amd64 network management framework (daemon and userspace tools) ii network-manager-tde 4:14.0.9~pre18-0debian10.0.0+0 amd64 TDE systray applet for controlling networking [Trinity]
Nik
Bill
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‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 12:45 PM, William Morder via trinity-users trinity-users@lists.pearsoncomputing.net wrote:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 11:58:38 greg wrote:
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 6:39 AM, William Morder via trinity-users trinity-users@lists.pearsoncomputing.net wrote:
- I used debmultimedia for one app, libdvdcss, disabled it afterwards. I use dselect, it shows up as an obsolete pkg, does not offer to revove pkg. debmultimedia caused me to many problens.
2.Held packages(s). I used apt-preferences to manage versions of apps, helped me keep track of versions.
- No viscious depends/remove cycles with network-manager-(tde) here, my tdebase install uses devuans default wicad. I do not have network-manager-tde installed on any of my TDE installs, use network-manager
greg
I cannot install network-manager; that's why I can't install network-manager-tde, which depends on network-manager.
It is network-manager that calls for systemd.
Bill
There is not a dependacy issue with network-manager/tde on my vanilla install of Devuan/TDE. network-manager does not require "systemd", yes it is a Redhat app, home of systemd.
My take away is you have a mixed system with , holds, -force, debmultimedia. Your issues probably lay there.
greg
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 19:14:57 greg wrote:
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 12:45 PM, William Morder via trinity-users
trinity-users@lists.pearsoncomputing.net wrote:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 11:58:38 greg wrote:
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 6:39 AM, William Morder via trinity-users trinity-users@lists.pearsoncomputing.net wrote:
- I used debmultimedia for one app, libdvdcss, disabled it
afterwards. I use dselect, it shows up as an obsolete pkg, does not offer to revove pkg. debmultimedia caused me to many problens.
2.Held packages(s). I used apt-preferences to manage versions of apps, helped me keep track of versions.
- No viscious depends/remove cycles with network-manager-(tde) here,
my tdebase install uses devuans default wicad. I do not have network-manager-tde installed on any of my TDE installs, use network-manager
greg
I cannot install network-manager; that's why I can't install network-manager-tde, which depends on network-manager.
It is network-manager that calls for systemd.
Bill
There is not a dependacy issue with network-manager/tde on my vanilla install of Devuan/TDE. network-manager does not require "systemd", yes it is a Redhat app, home of systemd.
My take away is you have a mixed system with , holds, -force, debmultimedia. Your issues probably lay there.
greg
Nope, I have been playing nice, so far. When I first upgraded, I preserved my old repo lists, and only changed the lines from jessie to beowulf or buster. (I never did get networking to work at all in ascii/stretch. The change to beowulf/buster has been a breeze by comparison, yet still there are a few issues.) But I think I brought in some sid packages by accident, which were good when running an old jessie system; but buster isn't so far progressed in its development cycle, I believe. When I got that sorted out, things went smoothly, and I was up and running a TDE devuan beowulf system within less than two hours. (It used to take at least five hours, sometimes a day or two.) This is a big improvement.
Speaking of which, I managed to get these packages installed, but then had no network. I checked /etc/network/interfaces settings, but the only thing different there is that wlan0 got changed to auto wlx*** [a long string of numbers follow]. Otherwise, I've been running more or less the same system since about 2015, network settings never changed. But as I said earlier -- about 3/4 of the time I cannot use tdenetworkmanager, and end up falling back on some version of wicd.
Same thing with using network-manager and network-manager-tde packages: that has never been an issue before now. Once I get something that works, I tend to stick with it, but now suddenly there is some pseudo-systemd dependency?
And that's where I am now, back to wicd after messing round with network-manager and network-manager-tde. I managed to get my network managers installed, but they can't seem to manage the job. Anyway, wicd is behaving something like normal again, except that now it won't use my system colors.
As long as I can keep a stable network connection, I will move on to the firewall, and see how to get gufw to use my old firestarter rules, which is supposed to be based on iptables.
Otherwise, my system runs pretty well; not quite as near-perfectly as my old jessie system, but it's getting better. I'm just mystified why I should have these problems, when nothing has changed. And as Slavek and others point out, they don't have any issues in running tdenetworkmanager and network-manager in a Devuan system.
Bill
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On Wednesday 02 September 2020 12:55:25 am William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
When I first upgraded, I preserved my old repo lists, and only changed the lines from jessie to beowulf or buster.
Hi Bill,
I admit I’ve only skimmed a few of these, so if this is a duplicate question, apologies...
You ‘upgraded’ from jessie to buster? As in something like ‘apt-get dist-upgrade’?
AFAIK there was no upgrade path for that, it was a wipe the disk and clean install of buster. Including, if the dist didn’t have a preserve /home option, the normal user account juggles.
That would explain the odd issues though???
Best, Michael
* Obviously dist’s vary, maybe yours has an upgrade path?
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On Wednesday 02 September 2020 07:24:46 Michael wrote:
On Wednesday 02 September 2020 12:55:25 am William Morder via trinity-users
wrote:
When I first upgraded, I preserved my old repo lists, and only changed the lines from jessie to beowulf or buster.
Hi Bill,
I admit I’ve only skimmed a few of these, so if this is a duplicate question, apologies...
You ‘upgraded’ from jessie to buster? As in something like ‘apt-get dist-upgrade’?
No, but I did try to upgrade from jessie to ascii/stretch. That didn't work so well, so then I tried just a fresh installation of ascii/stretch, which still yielded the same results -- namely that my network was unusable. But I believe the longer version of the story is probably true, as well; which is, when I first built my jessie system, I was migrating from Kubuntu with the KDE3 desktop; and in the process a lot of KDE4/5 stuff got caught up, because KDE doesn't want to let me go. So I had some unwanted baggage to get rid of, or to adapt to TDE. It took me a while to figure out that KDE was no longer my friend.
AFAIK there was no upgrade path for that, it was a wipe the disk and clean install of buster. Including, if the dist didn’t have a preserve /home option, the normal user account juggles.
That would explain the odd issues though???
Best, Michael
- Obviously dist’s vary, maybe yours has an upgrade path?
When I installed Beowulf/Buster, I did a fresh installation, on a brand-new SSD drive, then I overwrote my configuration files one-at-a-time until I got everything like I wanted. I have a hard drive docking station, so I could hook up my old hard drive, with my old partition, and take my time in selecting what to overwrite. (My usual method is quick and dirty: just copy over my old home folder into the new partition, but that's how I ended up with the KDE4/5 krap.)
So now I have a Devuan Beowulf system with TDE Buster, and no weird stuff, no force-installing third-party packages from dodgy repos like deb-multimedia, etc. (I usually keep those lines commented out, unless I am looking for something specific.)
I believe the only missed step was that I was not careful about a couple of sid repos (because I just did a find-and-replace to change the repos). When I tried to upgrade or whatever, I must have brought in packages that were unstable. If you are running a version that is early in its development cycle, then (so I hear) the sid packages tend to be buggier; if it is later in the cycle, when Beowulf/Buster is moved into old-stable and then eventually archived (which is where Jessie has recently gone), that's when the sid packages tend to run better, because they are the basis for the new release. At least that is what I have read, when doing research, and it seems to hold true in my experience, on my own system.
Sorry to make this seem more complicated than it really is. The main idea is, I have been running more or less the same system, same desktop, same look, same organization of files, folders, etc., since 2005, when I first started running Linux. And -- because that's how I keep my life and work and various creative projects organized -- I want to keep my system pretty much the same, where possible.
Life is short, and getting shorter for me. I don't have time to keep reinventing the wheel or to discover fire all over again.
Thanks to everybody for their help and suggestions. Even if I disagree sometimes, or seem like an unreasonable crank, it helps me in my ultimate goal of TOTAL WORLD DOMINATION.
Bill
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On Wednesday 02 September 2020 10:09:59 am William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
it helps me in my ultimate goal of TOTAL WORLD DOMINATION.
In the quest to help you meet your goals, if you have time, maybe try this?
These are my general steps in moving to a new ‘dist’ (or in this case going from jessie or stretch to buster):
(hopefully you already have these somewhere, or you can create it off the old drive.) - Tarball existing /home/user dir, copy it to something external {old-home}. - Tarball existing /root dir, copy it to something external {old-root}.
- With a User name you’ve never used before {tempuser}, do a clean, wipe the disk install. - Install TDE
- Login to {tempuser} - Install all the other packages you need/use. [1] - - Use whatever are the new instructions for the new ‘dist’ (e.g. buster) - Unpack the {old-root} tarball on /root/oldroot. - - Fix root as desired (.bashrc, /root/bin, etc.) - Unpack the {old-home} tarball on /home/{origuser}
- Through a GUI tool, create a new User {origuser} [2] !^! You want the system to do all it’s vodoo of creating a new user, which includes adding all the X and other configs.
- Login to {origuser}
You should have a complete working system, with minimal ‘extra’ setup(s) needed after this. [2] Creating a new user generally does not stomp on application configs, so Konqueror (etc.) should all work exactly the same.
Hope that helps! Michael
[1] Definitely debatable, but I’ve generally had better luck when everything I use was already installed. My guess is the ‘create new User’ part does some extra ‘stuff’ for those packages? But that’s a complete WAG on my part.
[2] - This might take a good bit of time as it’s most likely having to chown everything to the new user:group. - You’ll possibly need to do a manual, mass chown for files outside of /home/{origuser} as well.
[3] - System wide things (file associations?) will need fixing though.
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On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 05:20:27 -0700 "William Morder via trinity-users" trinity-users@lists.pearsoncomputing.net wrote:
So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
As a last resort, compile networkmanager yourself? systemd appears to be a strictly optional dependency (for some optional functionality, you need one of systemd, elogind, or consolekit).
E. Liddell
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On Tuesday 01 September 2020 08:22:44 E. Liddell wrote:
On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 05:20:27 -0700
"William Morder via trinity-users"
trinity-users@lists.pearsoncomputing.net wrote:
So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
As a last resort, compile networkmanager yourself? systemd appears to be a strictly optional dependency (for some optional functionality, you need one of systemd, elogind, or consolekit).
E. Liddell
I just experimented with Slavek's PSB and PTB repos, but I get the same results, no matter what.
If all else fails, I could probably use dpkg to force-install an older/newer version of the package (from stretch or bullseye?), just to see if I can make it work. It would probably work as a standalone package without systemd if I used the stretch version (just a hunch, based on past experience); I've done this with a few problematic items, and they often run just fine, but then when I try to install something else or upgrade, the system wants to remove them.
As I am still new to beowulf/buster, I am trying to play nice, follow the rules, and avoid anything too weird. Once I know it better, I'll find a way to make it do what I want.
Maybe Slavek will get drawn into this discussion. I feel sure that he gets the no-systemd crowd.
Bill
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On 2020-09-01 07:20:27 you wrote:
I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at least has always worked pretty well.
I hated network-manager when it replaced the plain-ol' way; it was unreliable and (originally at least) started and stopped the connection whenever I logged in/out accounts. (Why would I want my network connection dropped just because I logged out of my account? Maybe there are others active on the system?) Anyway, wicked, like the pre-network-manager way, just works. I'd say you're going in the right direction.
Leslie
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So at last it came down to this, the need to pick one or the other, but not both. I followed Slavek's recommendations, and managed to install packages that provided the systemd-type stuff that was needed for network-manager; thus I was able to install network-manager-tde, as well.
But now I was bummed out, because I couldn't get gufw, couldn't have firestarter any more, couldn't have a gui firewall. I still had to figure out the inner workings of gufw, but it seemed my best hope of a firewall.
Then it occurred to me ... I still have the packages for gufw, as well as the required dependencies ... evil thoughts were brewing ... time to work some forbidden self-hacking black magic!
So I used dpkg and installed the firewall packages that I had already saved; to wit:
firewalld gufw ifupdown policykit python3 python3-gi python-ufw ufw
Mind you, ifupdown is a package for the network; but when I originally installed firewall packages, it somehow got caught up in the dependencies or recommendations. Then, in keeping with my habit, I moved the packages to a safe location:
sudo mv -v -f /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb -t /media/<my_safe_location> and changed permissions in that folder, so that I could work with them, move them around to other folders, and so on (chown and chgrp).
I started doing this because Internet was spotty, or because I worked in different locations a lot, or sometimes just because my networking was problematic, and packages can't be downloaded if you can't connect. But if you have them saved somewhere, no problem. (Yes, I know they say to prefer downloading from the repository, but you can always update later, once you actually get your system running!)
And it all ends with everybody living happily ever after: Once I got not only tdenetworkmanager and network-manager installed, as well as gufw, I ran sudo apt-get -f install, just to see if it would try uninstalling something, and everything is just fine.
So, if this helps anybody who wants to do the same, there you go. As I said, I would eventually get my system to do what I wanted. Now if we could make it so that the pseudo-conflict with systemd goes away (since it is only apparent, from what I can tell), that would be nice. But at least there is a possible way to work around it.
Bill
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While I have Internet, of a sort, I still have a few glitches; for example, I cannot go offline, then go online again. Somehow, wicd either auto-connects to my wifi network; when instead, I want to enable wifi, then look at the available network choices, because my local network has several nodes or access points within the building where I live, and somehow it doesn't always choose the strongest or closest signal. I have an access point right outside my door, yet autoconnect seems to avoid it.
But when I try to disconnect, sometimes wicd seems to hang on, and show me still connected, yet I can't download emails or go online for other stuff. When I run macchanger, it keeps showing me that my mac address changes; and I run knetstats-trinity (which is a nice simple gui tool) and it shows my wireless is connected then disconnected, shows activity then no activity; yet in reality, I can't go online. So my only recourse at this point is to reboot.
When I tried to get tdenetworkmanager to run, I had those problems already discussed earlier. I managed to download the packages and dependencies to install network-manager-tde without systemd, so it all *seems* like it ought to work out right, but I always end up going back to wicd; which, again, is only sort of half-working at the moment, and I must keep rebooting.
How would I go about pruning away the wicd stuff that I don't want, and keeping only the tdenetworkmanager and required dependencies, etc.? I've search apt-get, but I believe that I already have all the dependencies and recommends. I can't think what else I might have missed.
Bill
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Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 07:57:03 -0700 William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
While I have Internet, of a sort, I still have a few glitches; for example, I cannot go offline, then go online again. Somehow, wicd either auto-connects to my wifi network; when instead, I want to enable wifi, then look at the available network choices, because my local network has several nodes or access points within the building where I live, and somehow it doesn't always choose the strongest or closest signal. I have an access point right outside my door, yet autoconnect seems to avoid it.
But when I try to disconnect, sometimes wicd seems to hang on, and show me still connected, yet I can't download emails or go online for other stuff. When I run macchanger, it keeps showing me that my mac address changes; and I run knetstats-trinity (which is a nice simple gui tool) and it shows my wireless is connected then disconnected, shows activity then no activity; yet in reality, I can't go online. So my only recourse at this point is to reboot.
When I tried to get tdenetworkmanager to run, I had those problems already discussed earlier. I managed to download the packages and dependencies to install network-manager-tde without systemd, so it all *seems* like it ought to work out right, but I always end up going back to wicd; which, again, is only sort of half-working at the moment, and I must keep rebooting.
How would I go about pruning away the wicd stuff that I don't want, and keeping only the tdenetworkmanager and required dependencies, etc.? I've search apt-get, but I believe that I already have all the dependencies and recommends. I can't think what else I might have missed.
Bill
Just my experience: eiter use wicd (and uninstall network-manager) or use networkmanager (and uninstall wicd).
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On Thursday 03 September 2020 10:01:53 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 07:57:03 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
While I have Internet, of a sort, I still have a few glitches; for example, I cannot go offline, then go online again. Somehow, wicd either auto-connects to my wifi network; when instead, I want to enable wifi, then look at the available network choices, because my local network has several nodes or access points within the building where I live, and somehow it doesn't always choose the strongest or closest signal. I have an access point right outside my door, yet autoconnect seems to avoid it.
But when I try to disconnect, sometimes wicd seems to hang on, and show me still connected, yet I can't download emails or go online for other stuff. When I run macchanger, it keeps showing me that my mac address changes; and I run knetstats-trinity (which is a nice simple gui tool) and it shows my wireless is connected then disconnected, shows activity then no activity; yet in reality, I can't go online. So my only recourse at this point is to reboot.
When I tried to get tdenetworkmanager to run, I had those problems already discussed earlier. I managed to download the packages and dependencies to install network-manager-tde without systemd, so it all *seems* like it ought to work out right, but I always end up going back to wicd; which, again, is only sort of half-working at the moment, and I must keep rebooting.
How would I go about pruning away the wicd stuff that I don't want, and keeping only the tdenetworkmanager and required dependencies, etc.? I've search apt-get, but I believe that I already have all the dependencies and recommends. I can't think what else I might have missed.
Bill
Just my experience: eiter use wicd (and uninstall network-manager) or use networkmanager (and uninstall wicd).
Yeah, that's where I think I am headed. I already spent most of the past two years using wicd instead of tdenetworkmanager. I just keep hoping that I will get a different answer, so I ask the fortune teller to give me another reading, and then another ...
I would be okay with using wicd instead; no problem. But now when I go offline, wicd doesn't offer me "options" -- that is, it looks like it hangs on, like it's still online, and I cannot get back online without rebooting.
Maybe I should run wicd as root? I don't like to do that. Usually wicd doesn't behave in this manner, which I why I'm bothered.
I am not in control of my network connection -- as proved by the fact that I can't go online/offline or offline/online without rebooting. This is what is driving me crazy.
If anybody is annoyed by my complaints, and failure to resolve my own issues, please be patient with me, and remember that I never had any problems with my network itself for the past few years. I would bounce between tdenetworkmanager and wicd, it's true, but my network connection was stable, and I felt in control. I had other problems, yes, but this is different.
Bill
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Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 10:27:43 -0700 William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Thursday 03 September 2020 10:01:53 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 07:57:03 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
While I have Internet, of a sort, I still have a few glitches; for example, I cannot go offline, then go online again. Somehow, wicd either auto-connects to my wifi network; when instead, I want to enable wifi, then look at the available network choices, because my local network has several nodes or access points within the building where I live, and somehow it doesn't always choose the strongest or closest signal. I have an access point right outside my door, yet autoconnect seems to avoid it.
But when I try to disconnect, sometimes wicd seems to hang on, and show me still connected, yet I can't download emails or go online for other stuff. When I run macchanger, it keeps showing me that my mac address changes; and I run knetstats-trinity (which is a nice simple gui tool) and it shows my wireless is connected then disconnected, shows activity then no activity; yet in reality, I can't go online. So my only recourse at this point is to reboot.
When I tried to get tdenetworkmanager to run, I had those problems already discussed earlier. I managed to download the packages and dependencies to install network-manager-tde without systemd, so it all *seems* like it ought to work out right, but I always end up going back to wicd; which, again, is only sort of half-working at the moment, and I must keep rebooting.
How would I go about pruning away the wicd stuff that I don't want, and keeping only the tdenetworkmanager and required dependencies, etc.? I've search apt-get, but I believe that I already have all the dependencies and recommends. I can't think what else I might have missed.
Bill
Just my experience: eiter use wicd (and uninstall network-manager) or use networkmanager (and uninstall wicd).
Yeah, that's where I think I am headed. I already spent most of the past two years using wicd instead of tdenetworkmanager. I just keep hoping that I will get a different answer, so I ask the fortune teller to give me another reading, and then another ...
I would be okay with using wicd instead; no problem. But now when I go offline, wicd doesn't offer me "options" -- that is, it looks like it hangs on, like it's still online, and I cannot get back online without rebooting.
Maybe I should run wicd as root? I don't like to do that. Usually wicd doesn't behave in this manner, which I why I'm bothered.
the deamon part of wicd runs as root, your gui client communicates with that daemon. there's also a wicd-cli for pure hearted.
btw, what's in your /etc/netwok/interfaces? since beowulf/buster anything but "lo" will give trouble.
I am not in control of my network connection -- as proved by the fact that I can't go online/offline or offline/online without rebooting. This is what is driving me crazy.
If anybody is annoyed by my complaints, and failure to resolve my own issues, please be patient with me, and remember that I never had any problems with my network itself for the past few years. I would bounce between tdenetworkmanager and wicd, it's true, but my network connection was stable, and I felt in control. I had other problems, yes, but this is different.
Bill
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On Thursday 03 September 2020 12:26:01 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 10:27:43 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Thursday 03 September 2020 10:01:53 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 07:57:03 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
While I have Internet, of a sort, I still have a few glitches; for example, I cannot go offline, then go online again. Somehow, wicd either auto-connects to my wifi network; when instead, I want to enable wifi, then look at the available network choices, because my local network has several nodes or access points within the building where I live, and somehow it doesn't always choose the strongest or closest signal. I have an access point right outside my door, yet autoconnect seems to avoid it.
But when I try to disconnect, sometimes wicd seems to hang on, and show me still connected, yet I can't download emails or go online for other stuff. When I run macchanger, it keeps showing me that my mac address changes; and I run knetstats-trinity (which is a nice simple gui tool) and it shows my wireless is connected then disconnected, shows activity then no activity; yet in reality, I can't go online. So my only recourse at this point is to reboot.
When I tried to get tdenetworkmanager to run, I had those problems already discussed earlier. I managed to download the packages and dependencies to install network-manager-tde without systemd, so it all *seems* like it ought to work out right, but I always end up going back to wicd; which, again, is only sort of half-working at the moment, and I must keep rebooting.
How would I go about pruning away the wicd stuff that I don't want, and keeping only the tdenetworkmanager and required dependencies, etc.? I've search apt-get, but I believe that I already have all the dependencies and recommends. I can't think what else I might have missed.
Bill
Just my experience: eiter use wicd (and uninstall network-manager) or use networkmanager (and uninstall wicd).
Yeah, that's where I think I am headed. I already spent most of the past two years using wicd instead of tdenetworkmanager. I just keep hoping that I will get a different answer, so I ask the fortune teller to give me another reading, and then another ...
I would be okay with using wicd instead; no problem. But now when I go offline, wicd doesn't offer me "options" -- that is, it looks like it hangs on, like it's still online, and I cannot get back online without rebooting.
Maybe I should run wicd as root? I don't like to do that. Usually wicd doesn't behave in this manner, which I why I'm bothered.
the deamon part of wicd runs as root, your gui client communicates with that daemon. there's also a wicd-cli for pure hearted.
btw, what's in your /etc/netwok/interfaces? since beowulf/buster anything but "lo" will give trouble.
I am not in control of my network connection -- as proved by the fact that I can't go online/offline or offline/online without rebooting. This is what is driving me crazy.
If anybody is annoyed by my complaints, and failure to resolve my own issues, please be patient with me, and remember that I never had any problems with my network itself for the past few years. I would bounce between tdenetworkmanager and wicd, it's true, but my network connection was stable, and I felt in control. I had other problems, yes, but this is different.
Bill
Looks like so: ########### source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*
# The loopback network interface auto lo iface lo inet loopback address 127.0.0.1 netmask 255.0.0.0
auto eth0 allow-hotplug eth0 iface eth0 inet dhcp
# auto wlx00027288d1fd allow-hotplug wlx00027288d1fd iface wlx00027288d1fd inet dhcp wpa-ssid myssid wpa-psk mypassphrase ########### The only thing changed since sometime in remote prehistory (before TDE) is the line that used to read wlan0, which is now that ugly wlx-stuff.
Bill
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Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 12:33:22 -0700 William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Thursday 03 September 2020 12:26:01 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 10:27:43 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Thursday 03 September 2020 10:01:53 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 07:57:03 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
While I have Internet, of a sort, I still have a few glitches; for example, I cannot go offline, then go online again. Somehow, wicd either auto-connects to my wifi network; when instead, I want to enable wifi, then look at the available network choices, because my local network has several nodes or access points within the building where I live, and somehow it doesn't always choose the strongest or closest signal. I have an access point right outside my door, yet autoconnect seems to avoid it.
But when I try to disconnect, sometimes wicd seems to hang on, and show me still connected, yet I can't download emails or go online for other stuff. When I run macchanger, it keeps showing me that my mac address changes; and I run knetstats-trinity (which is a nice simple gui tool) and it shows my wireless is connected then disconnected, shows activity then no activity; yet in reality, I can't go online. So my only recourse at this point is to reboot.
When I tried to get tdenetworkmanager to run, I had those problems already discussed earlier. I managed to download the packages and dependencies to install network-manager-tde without systemd, so it all *seems* like it ought to work out right, but I always end up going back to wicd; which, again, is only sort of half-working at the moment, and I must keep rebooting.
How would I go about pruning away the wicd stuff that I don't want, and keeping only the tdenetworkmanager and required dependencies, etc.? I've search apt-get, but I believe that I already have all the dependencies and recommends. I can't think what else I might have missed.
Bill
Just my experience: eiter use wicd (and uninstall network-manager) or use networkmanager (and uninstall wicd).
Yeah, that's where I think I am headed. I already spent most of the past two years using wicd instead of tdenetworkmanager. I just keep hoping that I will get a different answer, so I ask the fortune teller to give me another reading, and then another ...
I would be okay with using wicd instead; no problem. But now when I go offline, wicd doesn't offer me "options" -- that is, it looks like it hangs on, like it's still online, and I cannot get back online without rebooting.
Maybe I should run wicd as root? I don't like to do that. Usually wicd doesn't behave in this manner, which I why I'm bothered.
the deamon part of wicd runs as root, your gui client communicates with that daemon. there's also a wicd-cli for pure hearted.
btw, what's in your /etc/netwok/interfaces? since beowulf/buster anything but "lo" will give trouble.
I am not in control of my network connection -- as proved by the fact that I can't go online/offline or offline/online without rebooting. This is what is driving me crazy.
If anybody is annoyed by my complaints, and failure to resolve my own issues, please be patient with me, and remember that I never had any problems with my network itself for the past few years. I would bounce between tdenetworkmanager and wicd, it's true, but my network connection was stable, and I felt in control. I had other problems, yes, but this is different.
Bill
Looks like so: ########### source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*
# The loopback network interface auto lo iface lo inet loopback address 127.0.0.1 netmask 255.0.0.0
auto eth0 allow-hotplug eth0 iface eth0 inet dhcp
# auto wlx00027288d1fd allow-hotplug wlx00027288d1fd iface wlx00027288d1fd inet dhcp wpa-ssid myssid wpa-psk mypassphrase ########### The only thing changed since sometime in remote prehistory (before TDE) is the line that used to read wlan0, which is now that ugly wlx-stuff.
Bill
Remove or comment out all lines except these 2, then reboot:
auto lo iface lo inet loopback
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Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Remove or comment out all lines except these 2, then reboot:
auto lo iface lo inet loopback
good catch Dr. Klepp - I have completely forgotton that there are still people on desktops with entries in the file. When I read your question it lighted up again - to manage the networks by NetworkManager there should be no entries in there (except lo as pointed by you)
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On Thursday 03 September 2020 14:56:01 deloptes wrote:
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Remove or comment out all lines except these 2, then reboot:
auto lo iface lo inet loopback
good catch Dr. Klepp - I have completely forgotton that there are still people on desktops with entries in the file. When I read your question it lighted up again - to manage the networks by NetworkManager there should be no entries in there (except lo as pointed by you)
Changed these lines now (contrary to all advice found by online "experts"!), and I am now rebooting in order to do a test run.
Science means that I ought to be able to reproduce your results, rather than attributing my problems to the Men in Black.
Bill
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On Thursday 03 September 2020 14:56:01 deloptes wrote:
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Remove or comment out all lines except these 2, then reboot:
auto lo iface lo inet loopback
good catch Dr. Klepp - I have completely forgotton that there are still people on desktops with entries in the file. When I read your question it lighted up again - to manage the networks by NetworkManager there should be no entries in there (except lo as pointed by you)
Changed these lines now (contrary to all advice found by online "experts"!), and I am now rebooting in order to do a test run.
Science means that I ought to be able to reproduce your results, rather than attributing my problems to the Men in Black.
Bill
P.S. Regarding those lines in /etc/network/interfaces Okay, so that did the trick, I believe, so far as getting my network to behave normally again. I am puzzled about why it should begin to misbehave, when I have been using those settings since long before TDE and Debian. I believe I set those lines back when I started running Linux, sometime around Kubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04, so about 2006 or 2007, back when I still had direct contact with other human beings.
Anyway, so the worst of the issue is solved. It seems that I can go online/offline, back and forth, without my connection getting caught in some limbo then needing to reboot.
However, there is yet one glitch. When I tried to use tdenetworkmanager to connect, I can look at all available networks, as usual, and everything behaves as expected. I only needed to re-enter my wifi password, enable my chosen network, etc., but when I go to save the network, I am told that I don't have sufficient permissions.
On the other hand, wicd seems to work normally again, so that life can go on, one way or another. I would like to solve this new issue, but if not, at least I can control my network connection.
Bill
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Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 23:17:50 -0700 William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Thursday 03 September 2020 14:56:01 deloptes wrote:
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Remove or comment out all lines except these 2, then reboot:
auto lo iface lo inet loopback
good catch Dr. Klepp - I have completely forgotton that there are still people on desktops with entries in the file. When I read your question it lighted up again - to manage the networks by NetworkManager there should be no entries in there (except lo as pointed by you)
Changed these lines now (contrary to all advice found by online "experts"!), and I am now rebooting in order to do a test run.
Science means that I ought to be able to reproduce your results, rather than attributing my problems to the Men in Black.
Bill
P.S. Regarding those lines in /etc/network/interfaces Okay, so that did the trick, I believe, so far as getting my network to behave normally again. I am puzzled about why it should begin to misbehave, when I have been using those settings since long before TDE and Debian. I believe I set those lines back when I started running Linux, sometime around Kubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04, so about 2006 or 2007, back when I still had direct contact with other human beings.
Anyway, so the worst of the issue is solved. It seems that I can go online/offline, back and forth, without my connection getting caught in some limbo then needing to reboot.
However, there is yet one glitch. When I tried to use tdenetworkmanager to connect, I can look at all available networks, as usual, and everything behaves as expected. I only needed to re-enter my wifi password, enable my chosen network, etc., but when I go to save the network, I am told that I don't have sufficient permissions.
On the other hand, wicd seems to work normally again, so that life can go on, one way or another. I would like to solve this new issue, but if not, at least I can control my network connection.
What groups are you in? IMO you need to be in "netdev".
Bill
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On Friday 04 September 2020 00:04:52 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 23:17:50 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Thursday 03 September 2020 14:56:01 deloptes wrote:
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Remove or comment out all lines except these 2, then reboot:
auto lo iface lo inet loopback
good catch Dr. Klepp - I have completely forgotton that there are still people on desktops with entries in the file. When I read your question it lighted up again - to manage the networks by NetworkManager there should be no entries in there (except lo as pointed by you)
Changed these lines now (contrary to all advice found by online "experts"!), and I am now rebooting in order to do a test run.
Science means that I ought to be able to reproduce your results, rather than attributing my problems to the Men in Black.
Bill
P.S. Regarding those lines in /etc/network/interfaces Okay, so that did the trick, I believe, so far as getting my network to behave normally again. I am puzzled about why it should begin to misbehave, when I have been using those settings since long before TDE and Debian. I believe I set those lines back when I started running Linux, sometime around Kubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04, so about 2006 or 2007, back when I still had direct contact with other human beings.
Anyway, so the worst of the issue is solved. It seems that I can go online/offline, back and forth, without my connection getting caught in some limbo then needing to reboot.
However, there is yet one glitch. When I tried to use tdenetworkmanager to connect, I can look at all available networks, as usual, and everything behaves as expected. I only needed to re-enter my wifi password, enable my chosen network, etc., but when I go to save the network, I am told that I don't have sufficient permissions.
On the other hand, wicd seems to work normally again, so that life can go on, one way or another. I would like to solve this new issue, but if not, at least I can control my network connection.
What groups are you in? IMO you need to be in "netdev".
Just checked, and I am already a member of that group.
Moreover, I seem to have reverted to that problem of network limbo, where I cannot go online/offline without making a mess and needing to reboot.
The error message I am getting is this: ############ Unable to save network connection!
Potential causese:
* Insufficient permissions * NetworkManager not running * DBUS failure ############ (I would have taken a snapshot, but I find that I do not yet have ksnapshot-trinity installed.)
At least I have got tdenetworkmanager's icon to look normal (a globe when it is running, a white square when not), and I can actually see the networks, just I am not allowed to use them, nor to save settings. So now I am back to using wicd for network, and fighting against Network Limbo Syndrome.
Bill
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William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
Just checked, and I am already a member of that group.
Moreover, I seem to have reverted to that problem of network limbo, where I cannot go online/offline without making a mess and needing to reboot.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NetworkManager
look at "Set up PolicyKit permissions"
Also
https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkManager
and test with wicd uninstalled to avoid interference
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On Friday 04 September 2020 13:22:26 deloptes wrote:
William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
Just checked, and I am already a member of that group.
Moreover, I seem to have reverted to that problem of network limbo, where I cannot go online/offline without making a mess and needing to reboot.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NetworkManager
look at "Set up PolicyKit permissions"
Also
https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkManager
and test with wicd uninstalled to avoid interference
Thanks, I am on it.
Bill
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On Friday 04 September 2020, William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
On Friday 04 September 2020 13:22:26 deloptes wrote:
William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
Just checked, and I am already a member of that group.
Moreover, I seem to have reverted to that problem of network limbo, where I cannot go online/offline without making a mess and needing to reboot.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NetworkManager
look at "Set up PolicyKit permissions"
Also
https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkManager
and test with wicd uninstalled to avoid interference
Thanks, I am on it.
Bill
Me 2
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On Thursday 03 September 2020 12:26:01 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 10:27:43 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Thursday 03 September 2020 10:01:53 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 07:57:03 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
While I have Internet, of a sort, I still have a few glitches; for example, I cannot go offline, then go online again. Somehow, wicd either auto-connects to my wifi network; when instead, I want to enable wifi, then look at the available network choices, because my local network has several nodes or access points within the building where I live, and somehow it doesn't always choose the strongest or closest signal. I have an access point right outside my door, yet autoconnect seems to avoid it.
But when I try to disconnect, sometimes wicd seems to hang on, and show me still connected, yet I can't download emails or go online for other stuff. When I run macchanger, it keeps showing me that my mac address changes; and I run knetstats-trinity (which is a nice simple gui tool) and it shows my wireless is connected then disconnected, shows activity then no activity; yet in reality, I can't go online. So my only recourse at this point is to reboot.
When I tried to get tdenetworkmanager to run, I had those problems already discussed earlier. I managed to download the packages and dependencies to install network-manager-tde without systemd, so it all *seems* like it ought to work out right, but I always end up going back to wicd; which, again, is only sort of half-working at the moment, and I must keep rebooting.
How would I go about pruning away the wicd stuff that I don't want, and keeping only the tdenetworkmanager and required dependencies, etc.? I've search apt-get, but I believe that I already have all the dependencies and recommends. I can't think what else I might have missed.
Bill
Just my experience: eiter use wicd (and uninstall network-manager) or use networkmanager (and uninstall wicd).
Yeah, that's where I think I am headed. I already spent most of the past two years using wicd instead of tdenetworkmanager. I just keep hoping that I will get a different answer, so I ask the fortune teller to give me another reading, and then another ...
I would be okay with using wicd instead; no problem. But now when I go offline, wicd doesn't offer me "options" -- that is, it looks like it hangs on, like it's still online, and I cannot get back online without rebooting.
Maybe I should run wicd as root? I don't like to do that. Usually wicd doesn't behave in this manner, which I why I'm bothered.
the deamon part of wicd runs as root, your gui client communicates with that daemon. there's also a wicd-cli for pure hearted.
btw, what's in your /etc/netwok/interfaces? since beowulf/buster anything but "lo" will give trouble.
I am not in control of my network connection -- as proved by the fact that I can't go online/offline or offline/online without rebooting. This is what is driving me crazy.
If anybody is annoyed by my complaints, and failure to resolve my own issues, please be patient with me, and remember that I never had any problems with my network itself for the past few years. I would bounce between tdenetworkmanager and wicd, it's true, but my network connection was stable, and I felt in control. I had other problems, yes, but this is different.
Bill
I might give that wicd-cli a whirl, since I already have it, and its manpages are blessedly short, yet have all the options I want.
It is a matter of debate, whether or not I am pure of heart; nowadays, however, I have been washing my hands more often than usual. That ought to count for something, right?
Bill
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Just giving the new TDE mailing list template a test run. See attachment for how I have set up headers.
If you want to keep your email private, and "reply to" the TDE list instead of your personal email, I believe I have got it right here.
Included as a special bonus is one of my jabber/xmpp accounts, for when one of our conversations goes WAY off-topic.
Bill
jabber/xmpp dr_mojo_contendo@hot-chilli.net
Whenever kerberos, heimdal or ldap pkgs get installed, I find that I can no longer change my password. I always get a error message:
"unable to change expired password: Authentication token manipulation error"
But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE packages get removed.
Bill
Anno domini 2021 Tue, 13 Apr 14:54:25 -0700 William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
Whenever kerberos, heimdal or ldap pkgs get installed, I find that I can no longer change my password. I always get a error message:
"unable to change expired password: Authentication token manipulation error"
But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE packages get removed.
tdm-trinity uses libtdeldap-trinity. When you remove it (or replace it by a dummy package) tdm failes to inititialize your session (cannot open /opt/trinity/lib/libtdeldap.so.1). So for the time beeing, you'd need to remove tdm-trinity if you want to get rid of ldap - and set all depending metapackages to "manual"
Oh, cant you change your password from the commendline?
Nik
Bill
tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
On Tuesday 13 April 2021 23:20:25 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2021 Tue, 13 Apr 14:54:25 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
error message:
"unable to change expired password: Authentication token manipulation error"
But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE packages get removed.
tdm-trinity uses libtdeldap-trinity. When you remove it (or replace it by a dummy package) tdm failes to inititialize your session (cannot open /opt/trinity/lib/libtdeldap.so.1). So for the time beeing, you'd need to remove tdm-trinity if you want to get rid of ldap - and set all depending metapackages to "manual"
Oh, cant you change your password from the commendline?
Nik
Exactly, I use a command to force expiration of my password, then use another command to change my password. I do this nearly every day, no issues ... except when kerberos-heimdal and (possibly) ldap are involved.
I wonder if it has something to do with a smartcardauth package; that one seems to be problematic for me, all by itself. Also there is kdesktop-trinity, which seems to require the kerberos-heimdal-ldap packages.
My workaround is simple: I always keep a folder with most recent downloaded packages for my system. When I upgrade to a new version, then I do some housecleaning. So I can manage to get my system working normally again without much trouble, but it still doesn't answer the question.
There must be something that causes those packages to get installed as dependencies. I think that the trinity ldap package is okay, but whatever else gets called in keeps repeating this mistake. Whenever I imagine that I've got it resolved, it pops back again a year or so later.
Bill
Hi Bill,
Am Dienstag, 13. April 2021 schrieb William Morder via tde-users:
Whenever kerberos, heimdal or ldap pkgs get installed, I find that I can no longer change my password. I always get a error message:
"unable to change expired password: Authentication token manipulation error"
But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE packages get removed.
on my Devuan GNU+Linux beowulf system with TDE R14.0.10 (PSB) no kerberos and no heimdal is installed. For "ldap" I find these, installed by dependency:
$ aptitude search "?installed(ldap)" i A libaprutil1-ldap - Apache Portable Runtime Utility Library - LDAP Driver i A libldap-2.4-2 - OpenLDAP libraries i A libldap-common - OpenLDAP common files for libraries
What are the dependencies?
$ for package in libaprutil1-ldap libldap-2.4-2 libldap-common; do aptitude why "$package"; done i task-web-server Depends apache2 i A apache2 Depends apache2-bin (= 2.4.38-3+deb10u4) i A apache2-bin Depends libaprutil1-ldap i tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity Depends libldap-2.4-2 (>= 2.4.7) i tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity Depends libldap-2.4-2 (>= 2.4.7) i A libldap-2.4-2 Depends libldap-common
This means: libldap-2.4-2 is installed because tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity depends on it and it pulls also libldap-common.
I have never had any problems to change passwords.
HTH
Kind regards, Stefan
On Tuesday 13 April 2021 23:28:10 Stefan Krusche via tde-users wrote:
Hi Bill,
error message:
"unable to change expired password: Authentication token manipulation error"
But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE packages get removed.
on my Devuan GNU+Linux beowulf system with TDE R14.0.10 (PSB) no kerberos and no heimdal is installed. For "ldap" I find these, installed by dependency:
$ aptitude search "?installed(ldap)" i A libaprutil1-ldap - Apache Portable Runtime Utility Library - LDAP Driver i A libldap-2.4-2 - OpenLDAP libraries i A libldap-common - OpenLDAP common files for libraries
What are the dependencies?
$ for package in libaprutil1-ldap libldap-2.4-2 libldap-common; do aptitude why "$package"; done i task-web-server Depends apache2 i A apache2 Depends apache2-bin (= 2.4.38-3+deb10u4) i A apache2-bin Depends libaprutil1-ldap i tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity Depends libldap-2.4-2 (>= 2.4.7) i tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity Depends libldap-2.4-2 (>= 2.4.7) i A libldap-2.4-2 Depends libldap-common
This means: libldap-2.4-2 is installed because tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity depends on it and it pulls also libldap-common.
I have never had any problems to change passwords.
HTH
Kind regards, Stefan
Yes, this looks close to my own configuration. I also run Devuan Beowulf. It may not be specifically the ldap packages for Trinity, but rather whatever other ldap packages get called as dependencies; the real problem is kerberos and heimdal. Whenever I have them installed, then I kerberos comes up when I try to change my password (manually, by command-line), and I get that same error message.
I generally just purge kerberos* heimdal* ldap* (which wipes out my essential Trinity packages); but then I still have shells open, so I use dpkg to force installation of old TDE packages. Everything looks normal again, no more problems with passwords or kerberos; so I can wrestle the machine into submission.
But as I responded to Nik, it doesn't answer the question of why I keep having that problem only about once a year or so. I seldom change anything or try anything new, and if I do, I make a note of them.
Bill
On Tuesday 13 April 2021 23:28:10 Stefan Krusche via tde-users wrote:
Hi Bill,
error message:
"unable to change expired password: Authentication token manipulation error"
But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE packages get removed.
Okay, so some more information on this issue. An old note to myself advises *not* to install kdesktop-trinity, as this "installs ldap-heimdal-kerberos krap!" And this does ring a faint bell.
When I try to uninstall this package, however, I am told that this cannot be done without uninstalling lots of Trinity stuff. In particular, konqueror-trinity depends on kdesktop-trinity.
(Sorry I cannot give more information, but readers may recall that I have a hard drive that crashed, which I still have yet to recover; and on that drive I kept very detailed notes about such issues, and moreover managed to keep my life organized and reasonably tidy; now everything is a mess, and I am working to rebuild what was lost.)
It seems to be kerberos that interferes with changing passwords; heimdal must get dragged in with it. In any case, I have superstitiously avoided both; I don't know quite what they do, but they don't suit my purposes. Regarding ldap, that doesn't seem to be a problem with Trinity ldap packages, only other ldap that get called as dependencies.
So, if I can uninstall kdesktop-trinity without also removing other crucial packages, this (at least, according to my notes) ought to resolve the issue.
Bill
On Thursday 15 of April 2021 01:16:32 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 13 April 2021 23:28:10 Stefan Krusche via tde-users wrote:
Hi Bill,
error message:
"unable to change expired password: Authentication token manipulation error"
But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE packages get removed.
Okay, so some more information on this issue. An old note to myself advises *not* to install kdesktop-trinity, as this "installs ldap-heimdal-kerberos krap!" And this does ring a faint bell.
When I try to uninstall this package, however, I am told that this cannot be done without uninstalling lots of Trinity stuff. In particular, konqueror-trinity depends on kdesktop-trinity.
(Sorry I cannot give more information, but readers may recall that I have a hard drive that crashed, which I still have yet to recover; and on that drive I kept very detailed notes about such issues, and moreover managed to keep my life organized and reasonably tidy; now everything is a mess, and I am working to rebuild what was lost.)
It seems to be kerberos that interferes with changing passwords; heimdal must get dragged in with it. In any case, I have superstitiously avoided both; I don't know quite what they do, but they don't suit my purposes. Regarding ldap, that doesn't seem to be a problem with Trinity ldap packages, only other ldap that get called as dependencies.
So, if I can uninstall kdesktop-trinity without also removing other crucial packages, this (at least, according to my notes) ought to resolve the issue.
Bill ____________________________________________________
You seem to have now installed TDE 14.1.0~pre - ie repository PTB. Unlike R14.0.x, tdm in PTB has fixed dependence on libtdeldap, which has fixed dependence on kerberos. Currently, you cannot uninstall libtdeldap and kerberos packages in R14.1.0~pre. Uninstalling the kdesktop-trinity package is not a good idea because it provides desktop as such.
Exactly this dependence on libtdeldap and kerberos is one of the points that is blocking R14.1.0 to be considered ready for release.
Cheers
On Wednesday 14 April 2021 16:43:11 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
On Thursday 15 of April 2021 01:16:32 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 13 April 2021 23:28:10 Stefan Krusche via tde-users wrote:
Hi Bill,
error message:
"unable to change expired password: Authentication token manipulation error"
But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE packages get removed.
Okay, so some more information on this issue. An old note to myself advises *not* to install kdesktop-trinity, as this "installs ldap-heimdal-kerberos krap!" And this does ring a faint bell.
When I try to uninstall this package, however, I am told that this cannot be done without uninstalling lots of Trinity stuff. In particular, konqueror-trinity depends on kdesktop-trinity.
(Sorry I cannot give more information, but readers may recall that I have a hard drive that crashed, which I still have yet to recover; and on that drive I kept very detailed notes about such issues, and moreover managed to keep my life organized and reasonably tidy; now everything is a mess, and I am working to rebuild what was lost.)
It seems to be kerberos that interferes with changing passwords; heimdal must get dragged in with it. In any case, I have superstitiously avoided both; I don't know quite what they do, but they don't suit my purposes. Regarding ldap, that doesn't seem to be a problem with Trinity ldap packages, only other ldap that get called as dependencies.
So, if I can uninstall kdesktop-trinity without also removing other crucial packages, this (at least, according to my notes) ought to resolve the issue.
Bill ____________________________________________________
You seem to have now installed TDE 14.1.0~pre - ie repository PTB. Unlike R14.0.x, tdm in PTB has fixed dependence on libtdeldap, which has fixed dependence on kerberos. Currently, you cannot uninstall libtdeldap and kerberos packages in R14.1.0~pre. Uninstalling the kdesktop-trinity package is not a good idea because it provides desktop as such.
Exactly this dependence on libtdeldap and kerberos is one of the points that is blocking R14.1.0 to be considered ready for release.
Cheers
a~HA! Gotcha!
;-)
I had a hunch that something had changed. I suppose that I could revert to stable builds. But unless it can be resolved in future, I will still have to deal with it whenever I finally upgrade out of Devuan Beowulf. That will be a few more years, as it is an LTS release, so I can at least work around it for a while.
Thanks, Slavek!
Bill
On Tuesday 13 of April 2021 23:54:25 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Whenever kerberos, heimdal or ldap pkgs get installed, I find that I can no longer change my password. I always get a error message:
"unable to change expired password: Authentication token manipulation error"
But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE packages get removed.
Bill
Good news! Thanks to the Michele patch, tdebase in R14.1.0~pre is no longer dependent on libtdeldap and thus neither kerberos things. As soon as you update to the new PTB packages, you can uninstall libtdeldap and kerberos packages.
Cheers
Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Good news! Thanks to the Michele patch, tdebase in R14.1.0~pre is no longer dependent on libtdeldap and thus neither kerberos things. As soon as you update to the new PTB packages, you can uninstall libtdeldap and kerberos packages.
Slavek, did I understand correctly that in the main dev branch of R14.1 the dependency was not there, but in the ~pre it was still there? Because I check here and I do not have any trace of ldap/kerberos etc.
thanks in advance
On Thursday 22 of April 2021 18:55:43 deloptes wrote:
Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Good news! Thanks to the Michele patch, tdebase in R14.1.0~pre is no longer dependent on libtdeldap and thus neither kerberos things. As soon as you update to the new PTB packages, you can uninstall libtdeldap and kerberos packages.
Slavek, did I understand correctly that in the main dev branch of R14.1 the dependency was not there, but in the ~pre it was still there? Because I check here and I do not have any trace of ldap/kerberos etc.
thanks in advance ____________________________________________________
Dependence of tdebase on libtdeldap and kerberos things was specific to master branch => ie R14.1.0~pre (repostory PTB). This problem does not apply to stable branch => ie R14.0.10~pre (repository PSB).
Therefore, there is nothing to change for users of a stable branch - the problem did not concern them.
Cheers
Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Dependence of tdebase on libtdeldap and kerberos things was specific to master branch => ie R14.1.0~pre (repostory PTB). This problem does not apply to stable branch => ie R14.0.10~pre (repository PSB).
Therefore, there is nothing to change for users of a stable branch - the problem did not concern them.
but this is what confuses me, because I use the 14.1 DEV branch and there is also no dependency
On Thursday 22 April 2021 10:06:04 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
On Thursday 22 of April 2021 18:55:43 deloptes wrote:
Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Good news! Thanks to the Michele patch, tdebase in R14.1.0~pre is no longer dependent on libtdeldap and thus neither kerberos things. As soon as you update to the new PTB packages, you can uninstall libtdeldap and kerberos packages.
Slavek, did I understand correctly that in the main dev branch of R14.1 the dependency was not there, but in the ~pre it was still there? Because I check here and I do not have any trace of ldap/kerberos etc.
thanks in advance ____________________________________________________
Dependence of tdebase on libtdeldap and kerberos things was specific to master branch => ie R14.1.0~pre (repostory PTB). This problem does not apply to stable branch => ie R14.0.10~pre (repository PSB).
Therefore, there is nothing to change for users of a stable branch - the problem did not concern them.
Cheers
Far out! That's a minor headache that I am glad is resolved. I disabled all but the stable repositories, and everything worked again, but this is great news. No more workarounds.
Thanks, Michele & Slavek!
Bill
On Thursday 22 April 2021 19:06:04 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Therefore, there is nothing to change for users of a stable branch - the problem did not concern them.
For that, which lines to keep in /etc/apt/sources.list ? (users of a stable branch).
Thanks, cheers.
André
On 2021/04/23 06:23 AM, ajh-valmer wrote:
On Thursday 22 April 2021 19:06:04 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Therefore, there is nothing to change for users of a stable branch - the problem did not concern them.
For that, which lines to keep in /etc/apt/sources.list ? (users of a stable branch).
Thanks, cheers.
André
No changes required on apt source list configuration, whether you are on PSB or PTB. If you are on PTB, after updating to the latest packages you will be able to remove tdeldap-trinity and heimdal-clients packages if you wish.
Cheers Michele
On Friday 23 April 2021 02:37:26 Michele Calgaro via tde-users wrote:
On Thursday 22 April 2021 19:06:04 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Therefore, there is nothing to change for users of a stable branch - the problem did not concern them.
For that, which lines to keep in /etc/apt/sources.list ? (users of a stable branch).
No changes required on apt source list configuration, whether you are on PSB or PTB. If you are on PTB, after updating to the latest packages you will be able to remove tdeldap-trinity and heimdal-clients packages if you wish.
Thanks, but, what are PSB, PTB ? (acronym), How to know if we use PSB or PTB ?
André
SB : . stable branch ?
On 2021/04/23 04:49 PM, ajh-valmer wrote:
On Friday 23 April 2021 02:37:26 Michele Calgaro via tde-users wrote:
On Thursday 22 April 2021 19:06:04 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Therefore, there is nothing to change for users of a stable branch -
the
problem did not concern them.
For that, which lines to keep in /etc/apt/sources.list ? (users of a stable branch).
No changes required on apt source list configuration, whether you are on PSB or PTB. If you are on PTB, after updating to the latest packages you will be able to remove tdeldap-trinity and heimdal-clients packages if you wish.
Thanks, but, what are PSB, PTB ? (acronym), How to know if we use PSB or PTB ?
PSB stands for Preliminary Stable Builds - basically a rolling build of R14.0.x for Debian/Ubuntu and the likes PSB stands for Preliminary Testing Builds - a rolling build of master branch (R14.1.x)
See here: PSB - https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Preliminary_Stable_Builds PTB - https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Preliminary_Testing_Builds
You can think of them as nightly builds preview of what will be the next stable release.
Cheers Michele
Okay, so here is a weird one. I've been using tork since KDE3, about the year 2005 or so. Once I got it configured, I've experienced hardly any issues; only when I upgrade, then sometimes a few packages change, and I make adjustments, but that's about it. My configuration has stayed pretty much the same ever since then.
About a year ago, I responded to a thread started by Andre (search for the heading "tork-trinity - my config"); that has been my basic configuration since for ever.
But now suddenly I get a message that tork-trinity fails to start privoxy. I tried restarting it manually in a shell, and here's what I get:
sudo /etc/init.d/privoxy restart [FAIL] Restarting filtering proxy server: privoxy failed!
I checked sysv-rc-conf, and I generally leave tor and privoxy unchecked at all run levels, because I like to start it up myself. Otherwise, whenever I started tork, I couldn't connect, and would have to kill tor, tork and privoxy, anyway, so it has always worked better by starting it manually.
It occurs to me that maybe this has some connection to my recent upgrade (following that recent thread, "how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?"). Michele resolved that issue, and now I don't have any problems with kerberos or changing my passwords. I upgraded using the PTB repository. However, I had already noticed some odd behavior earlier when I was using the stable builds. (It seemed that privoxy was not starting, but everything still worked; however my download speeds were greatly increased, obviously because I am not using privoxy.)
Not that I am engaging in any Internet activity that is suspect or dangerous (so far as I know), but it would be nice to keep my privacy intact. These days, it's hard to tell what is paranoia and what is just reasonable caution.
Does anybody have some idea what may have changed, since I have not changed my configuration since TDE prehistory? Thanks for any help!
Bill
On Saturday 24 April 2021 08:19:50 am William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Does anybody have some idea what may have changed, since I have not changed my configuration since TDE prehistory? Thanks for any help!
Hi Bill,
I’ll offer you a different (better?) solution:
for VirtualBox with XFCE
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/VirtualBox/XFCE
Takes about 2 to 8 hours to setup, depending on your level of existing knowledge.
One caveat is VirtualBox is not exactly the easiest to setup, as such tell me if you’re going this route and I’ll dig up MX’s installation file for you.
Best, Michael
On Saturday 24 April 2021 09:25:41 Michael via tde-users wrote:
On Saturday 24 April 2021 08:19:50 am William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Does anybody have some idea what may have changed, since I have not changed my configuration since TDE prehistory? Thanks for any help!
Hi Bill,
I’ll offer you a different (better?) solution:
for VirtualBox with XFCE
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/VirtualBox/XFCE
Takes about 2 to 8 hours to setup, depending on your level of existing knowledge.
One caveat is VirtualBox is not exactly the easiest to setup, as such tell me if you’re going this route and I’ll dig up MX’s installation file for you.
Best, Michael
Sorry, but I've tried Whonix, didn't like it (at least not for my primary box, which at the moment is my only box). It was fun to try out, but I really prefer to stick with Devuan at the moment.
Thanks for the idea. And if I can get myself into a new place (working on it!) where I can have an entire room dedicated to playing on various computers and connected gadgets, I will give it a try again.
Bill
On Saturday 24 April 2021 09:25:41 Michael via tde-users wrote:
On Saturday 24 April 2021 08:19:50 am William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Does anybody have some idea what may have changed, since I have not changed my configuration since TDE prehistory? Thanks for any help!
Hi Bill,
I’ll offer you a different (better?) solution:
for VirtualBox with XFCE
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/VirtualBox/XFCE
Takes about 2 to 8 hours to setup, depending on your level of existing knowledge.
One caveat is VirtualBox is not exactly the easiest to setup, as such tell me if you’re going this route and I’ll dig up MX’s installation file for you.
Best, Michael
Sorry, but I've tried Whonix, didn't like it (at least not for my primary box, which at the moment is my only box). It was fun to try out, but I really prefer to stick with Devuan at the moment.
Thanks for the idea. And if I can get myself into a new place (working on it!) where I can have an entire room dedicated to playing on various computers and connected gadgets, I will give it a try again.
Bill
P.S. I have been thinking for a while of giving heads a try; that's the Devuan version of tails. I believe they're supposed to be installed on a flash drive, but I see no reason why I could not install as usual on an internal hard drive. For what it's worth, I've successfully done the reverse: that is, to install my complete customized OS on a flash drive, complete with root, swap and home partitions.
On Saturday 24 April 2021 12:02:09 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Saturday 24 April 2021 09:25:41 Michael via tde-users wrote:
On Saturday 24 April 2021 08:19:50 am William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Does anybody have some idea what may have changed, since I have not changed my configuration since TDE prehistory? Thanks for any help!
Hi Bill,
I’ll offer you a different (better?) solution:
for VirtualBox with XFCE
Sorry, but I've tried Whonix, didn't like it (at least not for my primary box, which at the moment is my only box).
Ah, it's run in a VirtualBox VM so it's not a 'primary box' replacement (e.g. you'd run it on your primary box, not as a primary box). It's only to replace your current use of tor, tork and privoxy.
If you're using tor, tork and privoxy for everything you do, then you can spin up a Devuan VM and copy all the network settings of the Whonix Workstation VM so the Devuan VM only goes through the Whonix Gateway VM[1]. Although if you're going that far you'd be better served to go the Qubes-Whonix route:
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Qubes
Which is exceedingly safer than Tails, Heads, or any of the other similar solutions.
HTH, Best, Michael
[1] That’s seriously not recommended as you’d lose all fingerprint anonymity.
On Saturday 24 April 2021 16:49:22 Michael via tde-users wrote:
On Saturday 24 April 2021 12:02:09 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Saturday 24 April 2021 09:25:41 Michael via tde-users wrote:
On Saturday 24 April 2021 08:19:50 am William Morder via tde-users
wrote:
Does anybody have some idea what may have changed, since I have not changed my configuration since TDE prehistory? Thanks for any help!
Hi Bill,
I’ll offer you a different (better?) solution:
for VirtualBox with XFCE
Sorry, but I've tried Whonix, didn't like it (at least not for my primary box, which at the moment is my only box).
Ah, it's run in a VirtualBox VM so it's not a 'primary box' replacement (e.g. you'd run it on your primary box, not as a primary box). It's only to replace your current use of tor, tork and privoxy.
If you're using tor, tork and privoxy for everything you do, then you can spin up a Devuan VM and copy all the network settings of the Whonix Workstation VM so the Devuan VM only goes through the Whonix Gateway VM[1]. Although if you're going that far you'd be better served to go the Qubes-Whonix route:
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Qubes
Which is exceedingly safer than Tails, Heads, or any of the other similar solutions.
HTH, Best, Michael
[1] That’s seriously not recommended as you’d lose all fingerprint anonymity.
When I tried out Whonix before (about 2 or 3 years ago?), I used Qubes. It seemed too much trouble for what I want; and besides, it seemed like I couldn't use it for ordinary stuff like email, banking, buying stuff online ... where you generally need a direct connection. I don't know if you get round that by changing your apparent location, etc., but that is an issue for me. I do sometimes have to connect to the outside world for business.
And now, my biggest objection is that Whonix is Debian, thus systemd, and that violates a core tenet of my religion. A non-systemd version of Whonix, and I would definitely give it a try.
I seem to recall yourself recommending a Raspberry Pi (or some such?) as a device to route all my traffic; I believe the question in that earlier thread was how to send email over a proxy connection? something like that?
At present, I have wiped my system clean of everything tor, tork, privoxy, config files and whatever else I cuold think of, then reinstalled and started over for a clean start, but to no avail.
I suspect that my ISP may somehow be blocking the use of privoxy - by blocking port 8118, perhaps? Maybe I need to find somehow to circumvent their attempts at censorship and/or surveillance. I just set up OpenDNS again, too, which I know I ought to have been using anyway. But all to no avail.
The reason I don't quite trust my ISP is that they have recently created a Tor exit node for themselves. Even if I trusted that they were kindly trying to protect their users, it seems inherently insecure to use a Tor exit node that is run by my ISP, so I have blocked their Tor server. And now I cannot get privoxy to start up, no matter how I've gone about it.
No paranoia here! Just good wholesome fun. Clean living and clean thoughts: there's the key!
Bill
On Saturday 24 April 2021 07:33:12 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
When I tried out Whonix before (about 2 or 3 years ago?), I used Qubes. It seemed too much trouble for what I want;
Aye! Qubes is a way of life, and (while not having used it myself) does seem like it’d need a good 20 hours of up front time to get it to work.
and besides, it seemed like I couldn't use it for ordinary stuff like email, banking, buying stuff online ... where you generally need a direct connection. I don't know if you get round that by changing your apparent location, etc., but that is an issue for me. I do sometimes have to connect to the outside world for business.
For doing stuff as ‘you’ (banking/email/whatnot) you’d install a VM (AppVM 1 w/ Devuan etc. in that pic) that has direct network access.
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Qubes
And now, my biggest objection is that Whonix is Debian, thus systemd, and that violates a core tenet of my religion. A non-systemd version of Whonix, and I would definitely give it a try.
Yeah, I don't see that. It'd basically whack fingerprint anonymity.
I seem to recall yourself recommending a Raspberry Pi (or some such?) as a device to route all my traffic
Probably (if I did I’ve dropped the idea since). I’ve been noodling on how to separate my business self from my personal self on the internet for ~20 years(clients are completely arbitrary over what will trigger their bigotries). A Pi or dedicated router to tor your whole network would work, but it’d be basically the same as using Whonix for everything (and a lot more work).
; I believe the question in that earlier thread was how to send email over a proxy connection? something like that?
Not sure? I send my email through a SSH tunnel direct into my mail server using raw IP addresses. Makes it pretty hard for anyone to man in the middle me, plus you’re petty sure your mail isn’t read by your ISP.
I suspect that my ISP may somehow be blocking the use of privoxy - by blocking port 8118, perhaps?
I’d guess that’s not accurate? I skimmed Privoxy’s FAQ, and it just looks like it’s a local service on your own machine filtering/intercepting your own box’s traffic and then forwarding the traffic on to your regular ISP modem/router. Port 8118 is used on your box only, so this sounds more like a Privoxy config issue (maybe you’ve got a wrong value somewhere? hostname? toggle?).
https://www.privoxy.org/user-manual/config.html
The reason I don't quite trust my ISP is that they have recently created a Tor exit node for themselves. Even if I trusted that they were kindly trying to protect their users, it seems inherently insecure to use a Tor exit node that is run by my ISP, so I have blocked their Tor server. And now I cannot get privoxy to start up, no matter how I've gone about it.
Okay, your ISP setting up a tor exit node (should!) have zero to do with any of their customer’s connections (to tor or otherwise). The tor software on your computer picks a random entry node (first hop). I do agree though with blocking the first hop connecting to your own ISP’s tor node, and blocking its use as an exit node probably makes good sense too, so yeah, just block its use completely... It’s been a long time since I dug through tor’s config options, but there was a way to block the first hop from using a country (e.g. if you’re in the USA, block all ECHELON countries from being the first hop).
At the point you’re at, I’d try getting Privoxy to work without adding any of the tor layers and turning off all of its [actions?] (I’m guessing at that, whatever ‘stuff’ it’s filtering so to speak).
No paranoia here! Just good wholesome fun. Clean living and clean thoughts: there's the key!
It’s all fun and games until those guys in black suits and mirrored sunglasses knock on your door. ;) Seriously though, like you I’ve got zip all to hide, it’s just the level of ‘big brother’ watching everything is revolting, so doing ‘my part’ to mitigate some of it seems reasonable.
Case in point.
A month or so back, me and the misses saw a chain store we hadn’t been in, in 20 odd years, so for nostalgia we wandered in, browsed around and left without buying anything. Approximately six days later she started getting ads for that store on her Facebook page. My best guess (since she uses gmail, uhg!) is the big G tracked her phone going into the store, shared/sold the data to FB, and ‘targeted’ ads for her... So f-ing creepy...
laters, Michael
On Saturday 24 April 2021 19:14:54 Michael via tde-users wrote:
On Saturday 24 April 2021 07:33:12 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
When I tried out Whonix before (about 2 or 3 years ago?), I used Qubes. It seemed too much trouble for what I want;
Aye! Qubes is a way of life, and (while not having used it myself) does seem like it’d need a good 20 hours of up front time to get it to work.
and besides, it seemed like I couldn't use it for ordinary stuff like email, banking, buying stuff online ... where you generally need a direct connection. I don't know if you get round that by changing your apparent location, etc., but that is an issue for me. I do sometimes have to connect to the outside world for business.
For doing stuff as ‘you’ (banking/email/whatnot) you’d install a VM (AppVM 1 w/ Devuan etc. in that pic) that has direct network access.
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Qubes
And now, my biggest objection is that Whonix is Debian, thus systemd, and that violates a core tenet of my religion. A non-systemd version of Whonix, and I would definitely give it a try.
Yeah, I don't see that. It'd basically whack fingerprint anonymity.
I seem to recall yourself recommending a Raspberry Pi (or some such?) as a device to route all my traffic
Probably (if I did I’ve dropped the idea since). I’ve been noodling on how to separate my business self from my personal self on the internet for ~20 years(clients are completely arbitrary over what will trigger their bigotries). A Pi or dedicated router to tor your whole network would work, but it’d be basically the same as using Whonix for everything (and a lot more work).
; I believe the question in that earlier thread was how to send email over a proxy connection? something like that?
Not sure? I send my email through a SSH tunnel direct into my mail server using raw IP addresses. Makes it pretty hard for anyone to man in the middle me, plus you’re petty sure your mail isn’t read by your ISP.
I suspect that my ISP may somehow be blocking the use of privoxy - by blocking port 8118, perhaps?
I’d guess that’s not accurate?
Yeah, I didn't think that was right, either, but I couldn't imagine how else it could happen.
I skimmed Privoxy’s FAQ, and it just looks like it’s a local service on your own machine filtering/intercepting your own box’s traffic and then forwarding the traffic on to your regular ISP modem/router. Port 8118 is used on your box only, so this sounds more like a Privoxy config issue (maybe you’ve got a wrong value somewhere? hostname? toggle?).
I already went through my config; I have the old config files, which worked fine up until a few days ago, and the new config files that were generated by a fresh installation of Tor, Tork, Privoxy, etc., and I cannot see any appreciable difference.
The reason I don't quite trust my ISP is that they have recently created a Tor exit node for themselves. Even if I trusted that they were kindly trying to protect their users, it seems inherently insecure to use a Tor exit node that is run by my ISP, so I have blocked their Tor server. And now I cannot get privoxy to start up, no matter how I've gone about it.
Okay, your ISP setting up a tor exit node (should!) have zero to do with any of their customer’s connections (to tor or otherwise). The tor software on your computer picks a random entry node (first hop). I do agree though with blocking the first hop connecting to your own ISP’s tor node, and blocking its use as an exit node probably makes good sense too, so yeah, just block its use completely... It’s been a long time since I dug through tor’s config options, but there was a way to block the first hop from using a country (e.g. if you’re in the USA, block all ECHELON countries from being the first hop).
By the way, I use my smartphone for Internet for one thing only, which is to listen to online radio on headphones while I'm walking round or doing other stuff, and don't want to be confined to one room. And when I do this, for example most of today, I run it over Tor using Orbot. I've had no problems using Tor on my smartphone; although, after setting it up, I have not dug into the config to investigate. I look at the messages in Orbot's shell, and everything looks good, so I trust that I am okay, but I know far less about smartphones; at least with a desktop or laptop computer, I know enough to solve most of my own problems, though sometimes (like now) I need to get some help.
At the point you’re at, I’d try getting Privoxy to work without adding any of the tor layers and turning off all of its [actions?] (I’m guessing at that, whatever ‘stuff’ it’s filtering so to speak).
I do keep trying to restart privoxy. I've also tried polipo, and it doesn't start up, either.
No paranoia here! Just good wholesome fun. Clean living and clean thoughts: there's the key!
It’s all fun and games until those guys in black suits and mirrored sunglasses knock on your door. ;) Seriously though, like you I’ve got zip all to hide, it’s just the level of ‘big brother’ watching everything is revolting, so doing ‘my part’ to mitigate some of it seems reasonable.
Case in point.
A month or so back, me and the misses saw a chain store we hadn’t been in, in 20 odd years, so for nostalgia we wandered in, browsed around and left without buying anything. Approximately six days later she started getting ads for that store on her Facebook page. My best guess (since she uses gmail, uhg!) is the big G tracked her phone going into the store, shared/sold the data to FB, and ‘targeted’ ads for her... So f-ing creepy...
laters, Michael
Thanks for all the commentary. It will give me some things to think about.
Myself, I believe that if anybody is seriously watching me, they must be very disappointed, because I am worse than watching paint dry. Unless one is deeply interested in my own subjects - I pretty much live between my books and my music, with occasional stops for food and drink and sleep, bathing and hygiene - then I can't imagine why anybody would care what I do. If I had a cat or dog, that would make me more interesting.
I can only guess that I must be marked on somebody's list as a potential thought criminal; but like the story goes, one can be guilty of thought crimes and not even know it. I avoided Twitter, FB, Google, social networks, etc., etc., right from the start, and only engage with technology when it suits me.
As it happens, the MIBs really *did* show up at my door one evening; weirdest effin thing in recent memory, although I've actually had more than a few of these over the past 20 years, and it would take a lot longer to tell. But this was only maybe a month or two ago. It had been a long day, so I went to bed early, sometime about 8:30 p.m., I believe. About 9:15 or 9:30, suddenly there's a loud pounding on my door, and somebody's shouting "SFPD, open the door NOW!" So (only semi-clothed) I open up, and there are (really!) about half a dozen guys, all dressed in black, with black woollen skullcaps, no badges or anything, and they show me a key and demand to know if it's mine. (It has the same door number as mine; they say it was some guy who is wanted for something.) But I show them my own key, hanging right there beside the door; and the one they have doesn't fit. Then they disappear as fast as they came. So I went downstairs and asked the desk clerk what that was all about, and he and another guy who was there both said that they showed up in an unmarked black van, came inside, refused to sign in or identify themselves, and just forced their way upstairs and went to my door. Well, so maybe it was all just an honest mistake, and they were looking for somebody else, and not really trying to spook me; but the unmarked black van and themselves all dressed like MIBs? Too much strangeness for my simple mind to grasp.
As I write this, I am downloading the Whonix ova file, and will give that a try. It runs in a VM, right? And if I want to connect to the Internet directly, that would also use another VM? I think for now that is probably my best option. Also, I see that Qubes requires 64-bit, and I am running a Frankenstein self-built computer with a 32-bit motherboard. (I know, I know ... but it was what was available when I was scrounging. I hear that it could actually be made to work for 64-bit, but I would have to do some work on that.) Anyway, if I can get Whonix to run in a VM on my present Devuan box without systemd, then that will be okay.
I may need some help getting Whonix to run, and figuring out VMs. If I run into problems (which seems likely, as I am a VM virgin, and have only minimal experience with Whonix), then I will start a new thread.
Thanks much, and keep thinking those good clean thoughts. "To the pure, all things are pure."
Bill
On Saturday 24 April 2021 10:20:11 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
As I write this, I am downloading the Whonix ova file, and will give that a try. It runs in a VM, right? And if I want to connect to the Internet directly, that would also use another VM? I think for now that is probably my best option. Also, I see that Qubes requires 64-bit, and I am running a Frankenstein self-built computer with a 32-bit motherboard.
32 bit might be a deal killer, VB is 64 bit as well.
I may need some help getting Whonix to run, and figuring out VMs. If I run into problems (which seems likely, as I am a VM virgin, and have only minimal experience with Whonix), then I will start a new thread.
Sent instructions in a separate thread.
Best, Michael
On Sunday 25 April 2021 08:46:00 Michael via tde-users wrote:
On Saturday 24 April 2021 10:20:11 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
As I write this, I am downloading the Whonix ova file, and will give that a try. It runs in a VM, right? And if I want to connect to the Internet directly, that would also use another VM? I think for now that is probably my best option. Also, I see that Qubes requires 64-bit, and I am running a Frankenstein self-built computer with a 32-bit motherboard.
32 bit might be a deal killer, VB is 64 bit as well.
I may need some help getting Whonix to run, and figuring out VMs. If I run into problems (which seems likely, as I am a VM virgin, and have only minimal experience with Whonix), then I will start a new thread.
Sent instructions in a separate thread.
Best, Michael
Thanks, I saw that. I am considering whether to bother trying to compile from source in the meantime, or maybe to give heads a try after all. Or, if I can remember how it is that my present motherboard is actually supposed to be capable of 64-bit?
I believe it was Nik who saw something that I reported from a shell, who said that actually I could run 64-bit. A geeky friend who lives here in SF told me that all I needed to do was "throw a switch" or something like that, but then neglected to tell me what he meant by that, and now I haven't seen him in a while, and it's been a few years since I built this machine out of parts.
Once I get myself into a bigger place, I'll get a laptop, and maybe buy or build a bigger machine, and make it properly 64-bit. I have several extra (older) hard drives at the moment, and it would be preferable to put them in this machine, and keep my newer hard drives for the new machine, then have a laptop for when I go to the library or whatever. I need to have something for travel, also, as I have a couple rather long trips to make in the indefinitely near future.
Anyway, how do I find out if indeed this motherboard actually is (or is capable of running) 64-bit? It was some command or other which gave me the information in a shell, then Nik (as I recall) said, hey, your machine is actually 64-bit. When I did the original installation, though, I didn't get the choice. Also I don't mind buying a new, bigger and better motherboard; that wouldn't take up more space. If I get any more crowded here, then I will need to sleep outside.
Bill
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 09:21:22 -0700 William Morder via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
Anyway, how do I find out if indeed this motherboard actually is (or is capable of running) 64-bit? It was some command or other which gave me the information in a shell, then Nik (as I recall) said, hey, your machine is actually 64-bit. When I did the original installation, though, I didn't get the choice. Also I don't mind buying a new, bigger and better motherboard; that wouldn't take up more space. If I get any more crowded here, then I will need to sleep outside.
Try lscpu . If you get a line that reads:
CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit
or
Architecture: x86_64
you should be running a 64-bit system. Bitness is normally governed by the CPU, not the mobo (although since one upgrades the two in lockstep 95% of the time, it's hard to say how much that matters).
If you want another computer and your space is *really* restricted, there are a few tiny single-board systems like the LattePanda that have an x86_64 CPU architecture and are in a similar category to the RPi sizewise.
E. Liddell
On Sunday 25 April 2021 11:20:42 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 09:21:22 -0700
William Morder via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
Anyway, how do I find out if indeed this motherboard actually is (or is capable of running) 64-bit? It was some command or other which gave me the information in a shell, then Nik (as I recall) said, hey, your machine is actually 64-bit. When I did the original installation, though, I didn't get the choice. Also I don't mind buying a new, bigger and better motherboard; that wouldn't take up more space. If I get any more crowded here, then I will need to sleep outside.
Try lscpu . If you get a line that reads:
CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit
or
Architecture: x86_64
you should be running a 64-bit system. Bitness is normally governed by the CPU, not the mobo (although since one upgrades the two in lockstep 95% of the time, it's hard to say how much that matters).
If you want another computer and your space is *really* restricted, there are a few tiny single-board systems like the LattePanda that have an x86_64 CPU architecture and are in a similar category to the RPi sizewise.
Yes, a friend was showing me some of these systems. For me the main problem is sticking with my priorities in order of importance. And the first thing is to move out of this place, but I got a plan. ;-) Somewhere with more space (because my apartment is tiny), a place life moves a little slower, where I can hear myself think ... you know the place.
Also I am getting old and worn-out. I don't want to buy too much more stuff, because then I must move it yet again. I will move into a bigger place, then I can fill it with even more stuff. It is like that joke by George Carlin: we keep moving into bigger places because we keep getting more stuff.
E. Liddell
Thanks, let's give it a try, see what comes up. And maybe it is the CPU that matters; I'm only repeating what I remember from 2 or 3 years ago. After that I moved to Debian, then Devuan, and would be glad to stay here as it has been stable and dependable ... until now.
I really don't want to run systemd, but if I can run a Devuan VM inside Qubes, and run Whonix as well, then setting up a 64-bit machine would be worth the trouble. Whether I buy new hardware to upgrade my machine, or figure why I have a 64-bit machine that insists on running as 32-bit, I would prefer to live the dream of being in control of my own machine.
So my plan for this machine is to get it running 64-bit, somehow or other. That might keep it all manageable until I can relocate.
Bill
Starting a new thread, because I caught a glimpse of where this is heading.
Dig it: 64-bit. Whenever I've installed any OS, I never got the choice. After I heard from Nik or whoever that it looked to be 64-bit, I tried some 64-bit installation discs, but of course get the error message "wrong architecture".
Bill
lscpu Architecture: i686 CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit Byte Order: Little Endian Address sizes: 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual CPU(s): 2 On-line CPU(s) list: 0,1 Thread(s) per core: 1 Core(s) per socket: 2 Socket(s): 1 Vendor ID: GenuineIntel CPU family: 6 Model: 15 Model name: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz Stepping: 13 CPU MHz: 1631.444 CPU max MHz: 2200.0000 CPU min MHz: 1200.0000 BogoMIPS: 4399.86 L1d cache: 32K L1i cache: 32K L2 cache: 1024K Flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts cpuid aperfmperf pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm lahf_lm dtherm
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 13:20:32 -0700 William Morder via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
Starting a new thread, because I caught a glimpse of where this is heading.
Dig it: 64-bit. Whenever I've installed any OS, I never got the choice. After I heard from Nik or whoever that it looked to be 64-bit, I tried some 64-bit installation discs, but of course get the error message "wrong architecture".
Bill
lscpu Architecture: i686 CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit
[...]
Model name: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz
Intel's site confirms: this is a 64-bit chip, although it's a fairly old one (launched 2007).
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/33925/intel-pentium-pro...
There is a small possibility that you have it installed in a mobo with some weird incompatible BIOS, especially if the mobo is older than the processor. Used motherboards with the right socket type seem to be common and not too expensive, though.
E. Liddell
On Sunday 25 April 2021 13:47:52 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 13:20:32 -0700
William Morder via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
Starting a new thread, because I caught a glimpse of where this is heading.
Dig it: 64-bit. Whenever I've installed any OS, I never got the choice. After I heard from Nik or whoever that it looked to be 64-bit, I tried some 64-bit installation discs, but of course get the error message "wrong architecture".
Bill
lscpu Architecture: i686 CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit
[...]
Model name: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz
Intel's site confirms: this is a 64-bit chip, although it's a fairly old one (launched 2007).
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/33925/intel-pentium-pr ocessor-e2200-1m-cache-2-20-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html
There is a small possibility that you have it installed in a mobo with some weird incompatible BIOS, especially if the mobo is older than the processor. Used motherboards with the right socket type seem to be common and not too expensive, though.
E. Liddell
Okay, so one thing at a time. Now to determine if I need to get a new motherboard. Money isn't so much the problem any more, but I would keep this one if it can be made to run 64-bit. When I get into a new place, then I will build or buy new stuff.
So, is there some way to find out if I have such a "weird incompatible BIOS"?
Bill
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 14:01:30 -0700 William Morder via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
There is a small possibility that you have it installed in a mobo with some weird incompatible BIOS, especially if the mobo is older than the processor. Used motherboards with the right socket type seem to be common and not too expensive, though.
E. Liddell
Okay, so one thing at a time. Now to determine if I need to get a new motherboard. Money isn't so much the problem any more, but I would keep this one if it can be made to run 64-bit. When I get into a new place, then I will build or buy new stuff.
So, is there some way to find out if I have such a "weird incompatible BIOS"?
We need a name and version number for the BIOS, I guess. Or else the make and model of the motherboard.
The BIOS name should show up on screen at the beginning of the boot sequence. Version number may be there too, or somewhere in the BIOS configuration screens.
The motherboard's information might be in the BIOS configurator as well, or you might be able to find it by opening the case and checking for information silkscreened on the board itself.
That's the best I can do. We've gone somewhat beyond my areas of expertise here. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure the combination of a 32-bit BIOS and a 64-bit processor is even possible, but it seems like a good idea to rule it out.
E. Liddell
On Sunday 25 April 2021 16:06:10 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 14:01:30 -0700
William Morder via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
There is a small possibility that you have it installed in a mobo with some weird incompatible BIOS, especially if the mobo is older than the processor. Used motherboards with the right socket type seem to be common and not too expensive, though.
E. Liddell
Okay, so one thing at a time. Now to determine if I need to get a new motherboard. Money isn't so much the problem any more, but I would keep this one if it can be made to run 64-bit. When I get into a new place, then I will build or buy new stuff.
So, is there some way to find out if I have such a "weird incompatible BIOS"?
We need a name and version number for the BIOS, I guess. Or else the make and model of the motherboard.
The BIOS name should show up on screen at the beginning of the boot sequence. Version number may be there too, or somewhere in the BIOS configuration screens.
The motherboard's information might be in the BIOS configurator as well, or you might be able to find it by opening the case and checking for information silkscreened on the board itself.
That's the best I can do. We've gone somewhat beyond my areas of expertise here. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure the combination of a 32-bit BIOS and a 64-bit processor is even possible, but it seems like a good idea to rule it out.
E. Liddell
Awaiting my next reboot to check out the BIOS. I do thank yourself and Michael for all the help, as I realize that this has ventured outside what is strictly a TDE-Trinity problem; although, of course, it started with the question of why tork-trinity cannot start privoxy as usual.
Regarding computer expertise, I am the one who is always playing catch-up to everybody else who participates in the list. I am one of those vaguely "creative types" (or so I hear), and have no head for either technology or business.
I did take some computer classes in high school, long long ago (maybe 1973-1974?). We all studied technical manuals for a few weeks, then punched holes in IBM cards. Like everybody else, I ran my punch card through a sort of conveyor-belt sort of thing, and mine successfully turned on a light bulb, so I got passing marks. However, I confess that I could not foresee how such an advanced technology would ever be useful to me, as it would be easier and quicker just to walk across the room and turn on the light.
Big thanks to everybody who puts up with my endless questions!
Bill
On Sunday 25 April 2021 16:06:10 E. Liddell wrote: to find out if I have such a "weird incompatible
BIOS"?
We need a name and version number for the BIOS, I guess. Or else the make and model of the motherboard.
The BIOS name should show up on screen at the beginning of the boot sequence. Version number may be there too, or somewhere in the BIOS configuration screens.
The motherboard's information might be in the BIOS configurator as well, or you might be able to find it by opening the case and checking for information silkscreened on the board itself.
That's the best I can do. We've gone somewhat beyond my areas of expertise here. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure the combination of a 32-bit BIOS and a 64-bit processor is even possible, but it seems like a good idea to rule it out.
E. Liddell
after reboot - the BIOS copied from the boot sequence, and from digging through the BIOS itself
ASUS P5GC-VM ACPI BIOS revision 2007 AMI BIOS 0407 build date 09/22/08
I can't find anything else (so far) from digging round in my system info, but maybe I don't know where to look.
Bill
P.S. However, I did just discover this nifty little command, lshw, and here is the output. (There's actually much more information, but it isn't pertinent to the CPU and motherboard.)
lshw <hostname> description: Desktop Computer product: System Product Name (To Be Filled By O.E.M.) vendor: System manufacturer version: Rev 1.xx serial: SYS-1234567890 width: 32 bits capabilities: smbios-2.4 dmi-2.4 smp-1.4 smp configuration: boot=normal chassis=desktop cpus=1 family=To Be Filled By O.E.M. sku=To Be Filled By O.E.M. uuid=60770470-8DFE-D511-9F64-001D607F8E50 *-core description: Motherboard product: P5GC-VM vendor: ASUSTeK Computer INC. physical id: 0 version: Rev x.xx serial: MS1C79B00G03073 slot: To Be Filled By O.E.M. *-firmware description: BIOS vendor: American Megatrends Inc. physical id: 0 version: 0407 date: 09/22/2008 size: 64KiB capacity: 512KiB capabilities: isa pci pnp apm upgrade shadowing escd cdboot bootselect socketedrom edd int13floppy1200 int13floppy720 int
William Morder via tde-users composed on 2021-04-26 01:47 (UTC-0700):
P.S. However, I did just discover this nifty little command, lshw, and here is the output. (There's actually much more information, but it isn't pertinent to the CPU and motherboard.)
The CPU part isn't relevant? Why did you leave it off? I lost track of the reason for this thread a while back.
I have 3 Dells using that same 945 chipset family and thus 950 graphics too on 2 of the 3, the other with an ATI card in its PCIe slot. I also have an HP with 945/950, but it has an NVidia card installed.
On Monday 26 April 2021 02:16:11 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder via tde-users composed on 2021-04-26 01:47 (UTC-0700):
P.S. However, I did just discover this nifty little command, lshw, and here is the output. (There's actually much more information, but it isn't pertinent to the CPU and motherboard.)
The CPU part isn't relevant? Why did you leave it off? I lost track of the reason for this thread a while back.
I have 3 Dells using that same 945 chipset family and thus 950 graphics too on 2 of the 3, the other with an ATI card in its PCIe slot. I also have an HP with 945/950, but it has an NVidia card installed.
Sorry if it's unclear; I am a little out of my depth, but trying to catch up.
CPU and motherboard information are to determine if my system is really 32-bit (as "it" always tells me), or if I can make it run as 64-bit. It seems like all the information I'm getting says it's 64-bit, but whenever I've tried to install a 64-bit system, I get a message that says "wrong architecture".
I want to install Qubes+Whonix (or some combination with Whonix). Both Qubes and Whonix are now 64-bit only, unless I compile from source, but that is too much bother for what I want. It would be easier just to buy a new CPU and/or motherboard. But I want to hold off on any more purchases (and more clutter) until I can get myself moved into a bigger place.
In any case, 32-bit machines are clearly on their way out, and I really ought to get with it. I wanted 64-bit to begin with, but 32-bit was all I could find, when I was buying parts to build this present machine.
So the question is: Do I really have a 64-bit machine here, as it seems; and if so, why am I forced to run it as 32-bit?
Thanks Felix. Any help is appreciated.
Bill
William Morder via tde-users composed on 2021-04-26 02:33 (UTC-0700):
So the question is: Do I really have a 64-bit machine here, as it seems; and if so, why am I forced to run it as 32-bit?
lshw should report CPU model. So should inxi -C.
On Monday 26 April 2021 02:48:34 Felix Miata wrote:
inxi -C
I believed we had already got most information on the CPU, but here goes. inxi -C CPU: Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Pentium Dual E2200 bits: 64 type: MCP L2 cache: 1024 KiB Speed: 1300 MHz min/max: 1200/2200 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1791 2: 2098
from lshw
*-cpu description: CPU product: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz vendor: Intel Corp. physical id: 4 bus info: cpu@0 version: 6.15.13 serial: 0000-06FD-0000-0000-0000-0000 slot: LGA 775 size: 1528MHz capacity: 3800MHz width: 64 bits clock: 200MHz capabilities: boot fpu fpu_exception wp vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx x86-64 constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts cpuid aperfmperf pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm lahf_lm dtherm cpufreq configuration: id=1 *-cache:0 description: L1 cache physical id: 5 slot: L1-Cache size: 32KiB capacity: 32KiB capabilities: internal write-back data configuration: level=1 *-cache:1 description: L2 cache physical id: 6 slot: L2-Cache size: 1MiB capacity: 1MiB capabilities: internal write-back data configuration: level=2 *-logicalcpu:0 description: Logical CPU physical id: 1.1 width: 64 bits capabilities: logical *-logicalcpu:1 description: Logical CPU physical id: 1.2 width: 64 bits capabilities: logical *-memory description: System Memory physical id: 32 slot: System board or motherboard size: 2GiB capacity: 2GiB *-bank:0 description: DIMM DDR2 Synchronous 333 MHz (3.0 ns) product: PartNum0 vendor: Manufacturer0 physical id: 0 serial: SerNum0 slot: DIMM0 size: 1GiB width: 64 bits clock: 333MHz (3.0ns) *-bank:1 description: DIMM [empty] product: PartNum1 vendor: Manufacturer1 physical id: 1 serial: SerNum1 slot: DIMM1 *-bank:2 description: DIMM DDR2 Synchronous 333 MHz (3.0 ns) product: PartNum2 vendor: Manufacturer2 physical id: 2 serial: SerNum2 slot: DIMM2 size: 1GiB width: 64 bits clock: 333MHz (3.0ns) *-bank:3 description: DIMM [empty] product: PartNum3 vendor: Manufacturer3 physical id: 3 serial: SerNum3 slot: DIMM3 *-pci description: Host bridge product: 82945G/GZ/P/PL Memory Controller Hub vendor: Intel Corporation physical id: 100 bus info: pci@0000:00:00.0 version: 02 width: 32 bits clock: 33MHz *-display description: VGA compatible controller product: 82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics Controller vendor: Intel Corporation physical id: 2 bus info: pci@0000:00:02.0 version: 02 width: 32 bits clock: 33MHz capabilities: msi pm vga_controller bus_master cap_list rom configuration: driver=i915 latency=0 resources: irq:16 memory:dfe00000-dfe7ffff ioport:9800(size=8) memory:e0000000-efffffff memory:dfe80000-dfebffff memory:c0000-dffff
William Morder composed on 2021-04-26 02:58 (UTC-0700):
I believed we had already got most information on the CPU, but here goes. inxi -C CPU: Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Pentium Dual E2200 bits: 64 type: MCP L2 cache: 1024 KiB Speed: 1300 MHz min/max: 1200/2200 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1791 2: 2098
Clearly it's a 64 bit: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/33925/intel-pentium-processor-e2200-1m-cache-2-20-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html
Have you tried clearing CMOS, or upgrading BIOS? There is such a thing as BIOS corruption, which clearing might help. Rather than a quick clear, I'd take the 2032 battery out overnight with the PS unplugged, then do the jumper clear after putting the battery back in
That CPU will work in a lot of newer motherboards that would provide a graphics upgrade from 950 to something better. If looking, try for a G41 or G45 chipset board. Lesser chipsets better than 945G include 965G, G31 & G33. Some G41 boards use DDR3 or DDR3+DDR2 RAM, while all earlier Socket LGA775 are DDR2. If you are using a PCIe graphics card, then P models instead of G would also suffice.
Felix Miata composed on 2021-04-26 06:21 (UTC-0400):
That CPU will work in a lot of newer motherboards that would provide a graphics upgrade from 950 to something better. If looking, try for a G41 or G45 chipset board. Lesser chipsets better than 945G include 965G, G31 & G33. Some G41 boards use DDR3 or DDR3+DDR2 RAM, while all earlier Socket LGA775 are DDR2. If you are using a PCIe graphics card, then P models instead of G would also suffice.
Or spend as little as $4 to try a better CPU: https://www.ebay.com/itm/324590949639?epid=166559489&hash=item4b9320d507:g:36oAAOSwU6ZgchOj https://www.ebay.com/itm/224439326820?epid=74095848&hash=item3441a05864:g:utEAAOSwGPlgcgxl https://www.ebay.com/itm/193052387163?hash=item2cf2d1a75b:g:mSMAAOSw~fhdVxj-
On Monday 26 April 2021 03:21:41 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2021-04-26 02:58 (UTC-0700):
I believed we had already got most information on the CPU, but here goes. inxi -C CPU: Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Pentium Dual E2200 bits: 64 type: MCP L2 cache: 1024 KiB Speed: 1300 MHz min/max: 1200/2200 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1791 2: 2098
Clearly it's a 64 bit: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/33925/intel-pentium-p rocessor-e2200-1m-cache-2-20-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html
Have you tried clearing CMOS, or upgrading BIOS? There is such a thing as BIOS corruption, which clearing might help. Rather than a quick clear, I'd take the 2032 battery out overnight with the PS unplugged, then do the jumper clear after putting the battery back in
That CPU will work in a lot of newer motherboards that would provide a graphics upgrade from 950 to something better. If looking, try for a G41 or G45 chipset board. Lesser chipsets better than 945G include 965G, G31 & G33. Some G41 boards use DDR3 or DDR3+DDR2 RAM, while all earlier Socket LGA775 are DDR2. If you are using a PCIe graphics card, then P models instead of G would also suffice.
Eventually I will either upgrade this, or build a new box, or both; but with the prospect of moving on my mind, I don't want to accumulate yet more junk that must be moved. So if I can get this thing to work as 64-bit, without adding more to my burden, that would be best.
By the way, this did start out as a strictly TDE-Trinity question: namely, Why does tork-trinity fail to start privoxy? I can't get privoxy to start, no matter what I've tried. (I've also been having some other security issues; but I get worn out trying to fight against these tendencies or problems that keep repeating themselves. Better to dig out the root cause.) Then Michael recommended that I try Whonix, and if I do that I might as well do it right with Qubes+Whonix, if possible, but that means I need a 64-bit machine.
So I did not intend to make these threads so diffuse and meandering, just that one question led to another.
Thanks for the recommendations, as well as helping to look under the hood.
Bill
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 01:47:46 -0700 William Morder via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
after reboot - the BIOS copied from the boot sequence, and from digging through the BIOS itself
ASUS P5GC-VM ACPI BIOS revision 2007 AMI BIOS 0407 build date 09/22/08
I can't find anything else (so far) from digging round in my system info, but maybe I don't know where to look.
That's more than enough. Somebody put a copy of the manual for this board online. I can't access the whole thing, but the table of contents confirms that it supports 64-bit operation.
Maybe Felix is right about the BIOS being corrupt. It looks like ASUS still provides a BIOS file download:
https://www.asus.com/us/support/CPU/1/22/39/6/PYvbfOokwxUzJky3/C200906041607...
How to actually flash it is another question.
What happens if you just try to boot (not install) from a 64-bit-only live CD (any distro)?
E. Liddell
E. Liddell composed on 2021-04-26 07:39 (UTC-0400):
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 01:47:46 -0700 William Morder users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
ASUS P5GC-VM
https://www.asus.com/us/support/CPU/1/22/39/6/PYvbfOokwxUzJky3/C200906041607...
Unless I'm missing something, that URL is for an Asus P5GC-MX, not P5GC-VM. This looks like the 2 years newer correct one: https://www.asus.com/us/supportonly/P5GC-VM/HelpDesk_BIOS/ https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/socket775/P5GC-VM/P5GC-VM-ASUS-0408.zip
On Monday 26 April 2021 04:39:02 E. Liddell wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 01:47:46 -0700
William Morder via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
after reboot - the BIOS copied from the boot sequence, and from digging through the BIOS itself
ASUS P5GC-VM ACPI BIOS revision 2007 AMI BIOS 0407 build date 09/22/08
I can't find anything else (so far) from digging round in my system info, but maybe I don't know where to look.
That's more than enough. Somebody put a copy of the manual for this board online. I can't access the whole thing, but the table of contents confirms that it supports 64-bit operation.
Maybe Felix is right about the BIOS being corrupt. It looks like ASUS still provides a BIOS file download:
https://www.asus.com/us/support/CPU/1/22/39/6/PYvbfOokwxUzJky3/C20090604160 704/
How to actually flash it is another question.
What happens if you just try to boot (not install) from a 64-bit-only live CD (any distro)?
E. Liddell
Answer to the last question in your list: "wrong architecture".
To flash the BIOS I will need some help. I can manage taking out the battery and unplugging the power, etc. Done it before, though, a couple years ago, and nothing happened. I seem to recall that I actually had to replace the battery, though. Maybe that caused a problem? but it always ran as 32-bit, never got the choice otherwise.
Bill
Bill
hi all!
Anno domini 2021 Sun, 25 Apr 13:20:32 -0700 William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
Starting a new thread, because I caught a glimpse of where this is heading.
Dig it: 64-bit. Whenever I've installed any OS, I never got the choice. After I heard from Nik or whoever that it looked to be 64-bit, I tried some 64-bit installation discs, but of course get the error message "wrong architecture".
Bill
lscpu Architecture: i686 CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit Byte Order: Little Endian Address sizes: 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual CPU(s): 2 On-line CPU(s) list: 0,1 Thread(s) per core: 1 Core(s) per socket: 2 Socket(s): 1 Vendor ID: GenuineIntel CPU family: 6 Model: 15 Model name: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz Stepping: 13 CPU MHz: 1631.444 CPU max MHz: 2200.0000 CPU min MHz: 1200.0000 BogoMIPS: 4399.86 L1d cache: 32K L1i cache: 32K L2 cache: 1024K Flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts cpuid aperfmperf pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm lahf_lm dtherm
tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
A bit late to the party this time. I have a XEON 3360 on a Gigabyte MB from 2009. It runs 64bit without big problems, but it crases ~ ever odd hour or so with Chimera (kernel 5.10), but it runs beowulf without any problem (kernel 4.19?). Memory is OK. I guess, these CPUs are not up to the task any more. The C2D in my T60/T61/X61 still prk like a charm.
Nik
On Sunday 25 April 2021 03:20:32 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Starting a new thread, because I caught a glimpse of where this is heading.
Ah, yeah, haven't read the rest of this thread, hopefulyy this isn't a dup.
inxi -F
should get you all you need about what hardware you've got
should allow you to find what's the cheapest way to add/replace to your existing system to get to where you need to be.
off to do workiy type stuff, catch ya next weekend, Michael
If we are to continue this discussion, then we ought to start a completely new thread, so that it doesn't get merged with the original thread. And so I have created it.
On Monday 26 July 2021 17:13:13 Mike Bird wrote:
On Mon July 26 2021 16:43:46 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Edward (7.24.2021 08:45) replied to E.Liddell (7.25.2021 19:46).
I'm sorry but I don't see anything that indicates Edward reply was a response to Lidell. The >>> in the message appear to be correct, albeit somebody removed Michael's timestamp.
I've attached a screenshot showing the threading (Folder/Options).
--Mike
Yeah, sorry! I stand corrected.
E.Liddell's email was later in the thread, but Edward's was not a direct response to himself.
I am still mystified about why the timestamps are apparently out-of-sequence, regardless who responded to whom. Did it really take nearly two days for an email to be delivered?
Also there is the fact that this occurred before, about 9 months ago. (I could attach yet another screenshot, but the incident is not fresh.)
I did try changing Kmail configuration to organize all emails by threads. This would be helpful for TDE's mailing list; however, I must choose to organize all emails by threads, or none, and cannot choose only TDE's folder to be threaded.
It may be that I am wrong here. (It did happen once before, 16 April 1964, about 3 pm.) But as I say, timestamps only get messed up with TDE, and it has happened before, which makes me wonder.
Perhaps there is some perfectly reasonable explanation (nothing to worry about, nothing to see here), and I did not intend for this to get so involved. However, it makes no sense that the time stamps are so far out-of-sequence, that earlier emails follow later emails by nearly two days.
Or can somebody else give an plausible explanation?
Bill
Hi Bill,
On Mon July 26 2021 17:39:09 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I am still mystified about why the timestamps are apparently out-of-sequence, regardless who responded to whom. Did it really take nearly two days for an email to be delivered?
You can see where the delay occurred by looking at the message headers (View / View Source). Newer headers are tacked on to the top so they show you deliveries to your mailbox and then to your mail server and work back through the list server to the sender's submission to his mail server.
However to see the reason for the delay you'd probably need to see the mail server logs where the delay occurred.
A common reason for a delay is a temporary false mail server Realtime Blackhole Listing (RBL).
I did try changing Kmail configuration to organize all emails by threads. This would be helpful for TDE's mailing list; however, I must choose to organize all emails by threads, or none, and cannot choose only TDE's folder to be threaded.
The Folders/Options settings are per-folder.
--Mike
On Monday 26 July 2021 17:52:01 Mike Bird wrote:
Hi Bill,
On Mon July 26 2021 17:39:09 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I am still mystified about why the timestamps are apparently out-of-sequence, regardless who responded to whom. Did it really take nearly two days for an email to be delivered?
You can see where the delay occurred by looking at the message headers (View / View Source). Newer headers are tacked on to the top so they show you deliveries to your mailbox and then to your mail server and work back through the list server to the sender's submission to his mail server.
However to see the reason for the delay you'd probably need to see the mail server logs where the delay occurred.
A common reason for a delay is a temporary false mail server Realtime Blackhole Listing (RBL).
I did try changing Kmail configuration to organize all emails by threads. This would be helpful for TDE's mailing list; however, I must choose to organize all emails by threads, or none, and cannot choose only TDE's folder to be threaded.
The Folders/Options settings are per-folder.
--Mike
This is more the sort of answer I wanted. I am not necessarily a techie, but I appreciate knowing the technical details sometimes.
I did view source for the emails, but I just skimmed through. Maybe it is just empty curiosity, but I tend to notice little discrepancies like that. Sometimes they lead to interesting places, sometimes not.
Bill
On 2021-07-26 19:39:09 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I did try changing Kmail configuration to organize all emails by threads. This would be helpful for TDE's mailing list; however, I must choose to organize all emails by threads, or none, and cannot choose only TDE's folder to be threaded.
There are two ways to set threading: in Settings => Configure => Appearance, tab Message List (presumably a global setting) in Folder => Thread Messages (folder-specific) and Folder => Thread Messages also by Sender (folder-specific)
Leslie -- Operating System: Linux Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.3 x86_64 Desktop Environment: Trinity Qt: 3.5.0 TDE: R14.0.10 tde-config: 1.0
On Monday 26 July 2021 07:39:09 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
If we are to continue this discussion, then we ought to start a completely new thread, so that it doesn't get merged with the original thread. And so I have created it.
On Monday 26 July 2021 17:13:13 Mike Bird wrote:
On Mon July 26 2021 16:43:46 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Edward (7.24.2021 08:45) replied to E.Liddell (7.25.2021 19:46).
I'm sorry but I don't see anything that indicates Edward reply was a response to Lidell. The >>> in the message appear to be correct, albeit somebody removed Michael's timestamp.
I am still mystified about why the timestamps are apparently out-of-sequence, regardless who responded to whom. Did it really take nearly two days for an email to be delivered?
Ah, yeah it did! Short answer is it got hung up internal to gmx.net for those ~two days. Below are the very stripped down headers:
PS: Leslie, thanks for showing where the folder threading is. I have mine set for the TDE folder, but couldn't re-find it to set a different folder.
########
Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) by mail.trinitydesktop.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-14~deb10u1) with ESMTPS id 16QM7PBH012278 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for users@trinitydesktop.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2021 22:07:28 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [10.0.0.7] ([73.60.113.230]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MWzfv-1laDAi3G5R-00XMR8 for users@trinitydesktop.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 14:28:53 +0200 To: users@trinitydesktop.org From: Edward <@caramail.com>
On 7/26/21 11:07 PM, Michael wrote:
On Monday 26 July 2021 07:39:09 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
If we are to continue this discussion, then we ought to start a completely new thread, so that it doesn't get merged with the original thread. And so I have created it.
On Monday 26 July 2021 17:13:13 Mike Bird wrote:
On Mon July 26 2021 16:43:46 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Edward (7.24.2021 08:45) replied to E.Liddell (7.25.2021 19:46).
I'm sorry but I don't see anything that indicates Edward reply was a response to Lidell. The >>> in the message appear to be correct, albeit somebody removed Michael's timestamp.
I am still mystified about why the timestamps are apparently out-of-sequence, regardless who responded to whom. Did it really take nearly two days for an email to be delivered?
Ah, yeah it did! Short answer is it got hung up internal to gmx.net for those ~two days. Below are the very stripped down headers:
Which might explain why some of my previous emails never made it to the list, forcing me to re-send them.
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64)
On 7/26/21 11:07 PM, Michael wrote:
On Monday 26 July 2021 07:39:09 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I am still mystified about why the timestamps are apparently out-of-sequence, regardless who responded to whom. Did it really take nearly two days for an email to be delivered?
Ah, yeah it did! Short answer is it got hung up internal to gmx.net for those ~two days. Below are the very stripped down headers:
According to RFC 5321, section 4.5.4.1:
Retries continue until the message is transmitted or the sender gives up; the give-up time generally needs to be at least*4-5 days*. It MAY be appropriate to set a shorter maximum number of retries for non- delivery notifications and equivalent error messages than for standard messages. The parameters to the retry algorithm MUST be configurable.
4-5 days would appear to be the allowable amount of time to deliver an e-mail, before the server bounces it back to the sender.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5321#section-4.5.4.1
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64)
On Tuesday 27 July 2021 10:38:57 Edward wrote:
On 7/26/21 11:07 PM, Michael wrote:
On Monday 26 July 2021 07:39:09 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I am still mystified about why the timestamps are apparently out-of-sequence, regardless who responded to whom. Did it really take nearly two days for an email to be delivered?
Ah, yeah it did! Short answer is it got hung up internal to gmx.net for those ~two days. Below are the very stripped down headers:
According to RFC 5321, section 4.5.4.1:
Retries continue until the message is transmitted or the sender gives up; the give-up time generally needs to be at least*4-5 days*. It MAY be appropriate to set a shorter maximum number of retries for non- delivery notifications and equivalent error messages than for standard messages. The parameters to the retry algorithm MUST be configurable.
4-5 days would appear to be the allowable amount of time to deliver an e-mail, before the server bounces it back to the sender.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5321#section-4.5.4.1
Yes, I do know that emails *can* be delayed, and it doesn't mean anything especially weird or suspicious is going on. Sometimes those discrepancies like out-of-sequence time stamps mean nothing, and lead to nowhere.
Most of my emails, sent or received, take only a few seconds to be delivered, no matter how far apart we may be in physical space; emails are seldom delayed more than a few minutes. On rare occasions I have had them arrive the next day, but never more than 24 hours.
When such delays happen repeatedly, especially with the same person, or the same mailing list, then I start to wonder if there is some common factor involved.
In the earlier occurrence on the TDE mailing list, I believe it was one Dan Youngquist whose emails were regularly out-of-sequence, so that he always appeared to be writing from about two hours in the future; and it wasn't just one or two emails, but several -- enough to notice. As I recall, something in his system was misconfigured (maybe UTC/local settings?) so that he appeared to be in a different time zone.
Anyway, unless somebody has a startling revelation that will change everything, then my curiosity, at least, is satisfied. This most likely was due to some ordinary, mundane cause. I did not foresee that it would become such an involved discussion, but it's all good.
Bill
On 2021-07-27 13:12:22 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
When such delays happen repeatedly, especially with the same person, or the same mailing list, then I start to wonder if there is some common factor involved.
You might want to keep in mind the prevalence of ransomware attacks these days.
Leslie -- Operating System: Linux Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.3 x86_64 Desktop Environment: Trinity Qt: 3.5.0 TDE: R14.0.10 tde-config: 1.0
Since Mike Bird said it, I will believe it is possible, but I cannot find that particular setting in my own Kmail. When I change Kmail settings, it changes everything for all emails. I don't see any option to do that either in the general settings, nor by clicking on the TDE folder.
While I am asking about Kmail ... Also I remember Leslie asking about Kmail templates. It would be nice to make templates specially for each correspondent (for example, the TDE mailing list), so that we don't have everybody's emails exposed if they care about that kind of thing.
As it is now, I can't just hit reply and send to the TDE list without sending out my personal email. I don't care so much about that, but then sometimes people unintentionally send one another personal emails (instead of to the list). This has happened to myself and others, too. Being able to create a template that covers both send and reply would prevent those occasional mistakes.
All in all, I still like Kmail better than other clients; I tried Thunderbird and Seamonkey and I forget how many others. I sort of like Claws and Sylpheed, but they aren't quite as good. It would be nice to be able to link them to Kmail sometimes, so that I can use Claws or Sylpheed portable versions when it may happen that I am "out there" in the wilds of physical space, then dump everything back into Kmail in my home computer. Right now I do that by simple copy-and-paste.
I am running Devuan Beowulf and the latest TDE PTB, upgraded about a week ago.
Thanks for any help.
Bill
Okay, so riddle me this. I have totally disabled power management for my system, created a user profile, made it the same as my default profile so that it ought to be the only profile that loads. (I do this through the Trinity Control Center / System Administration / Monitor & Display / Power Managment.)
Yet my system still goes into hibernate mode (or so I believe) after it has been left unattended (that is, no direct actions involving myself).
This is a desktop system, built by myself out of parts, but I am running Devuan Beowulf and the most recent upgrade from the PTB repository. I don't need to use power management, since there is no battery to worry about.
This annoys me on a daily basis, because I get up in the morning (about noon or so), and find that it has gone into hibernate mode, despite the fact that I have left some large downloads unattended, trusting that they could be left to manage themselves. The power light blinks, the monitor has been shut off, etc.; and when I press the power button, it springs back to life, except that I have been disconnected and whatever I have left running has been interrupted only partially finished.
It used to be I could create a profile, set it to run as the default, and everything would be fine. But now it always goes into hibernate mode, no matter what I do. I have also tried to create the profile in administrator mode, but the result is always the same.
Any clues about what is wrong here? Thanks for any help!
Bill
Have you tried any of this?
https://www.tecmint.com/disable-suspend-and-hibernation-in-linux/
You may try:
systemctl --user mask sleep.target suspend.target
so that you do not disable it systemwide. It sounds like you only need to do it for suspend/sleep, not necessarily for hibernate. Remember to restart systemd. If that fails, try systemwide (without "--user"). If all fails, your safe bet option is to switch to runlevel 3 and then start X from the command line with `startx`. For the latter you will have to set the SUID bit for /usr/bin/Xorg:
chmod u+s /usr/bin/Xorg
See: https://www.x.org/wiki/FAQMiscellaneous/
You will also need to set the WINDOWMANAGER environment variable to point to TDE.
Let us know what works.
Gianluca
On Tue, 3 Aug 2021, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Okay, so riddle me this. I have totally disabled power management for my system, created a user profile, made it the same as my default profile so that it ought to be the only profile that loads. (I do this through the Trinity Control Center / System Administration / Monitor & Display / Power Managment.)
Yet my system still goes into hibernate mode (or so I believe) after it has been left unattended (that is, no direct actions involving myself).
This is a desktop system, built by myself out of parts, but I am running Devuan Beowulf and the most recent upgrade from the PTB repository. I don't need to use power management, since there is no battery to worry about.
This annoys me on a daily basis, because I get up in the morning (about noon or so), and find that it has gone into hibernate mode, despite the fact that I have left some large downloads unattended, trusting that they could be left to manage themselves. The power light blinks, the monitor has been shut off, etc.; and when I press the power button, it springs back to life, except that I have been disconnected and whatever I have left running has been interrupted only partially finished.
It used to be I could create a profile, set it to run as the default, and everything would be fine. But now it always goes into hibernate mode, no matter what I do. I have also tried to create the profile in administrator mode, but the result is always the same.
Any clues about what is wrong here? Thanks for any help!
Bill ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. -----------------------------------------------------
On Tuesday 03 August 2021 22:50:59 Gianluca Interlandi wrote:
systemctl --user mask sleep.target suspend.target
I am running Devuan Beowulf: no systemd, only init on my system. As there is no systemd, there also seems to be no systemctl. I searched apt for the package, and it only brings up systemd, so it must depend on systemd or be part of that package.
Incidentally, why not disable it system-wide? As I am the only user, and I generally leave my desktop running for long-term tasks, it would seem preferable to me that it is disabled system-wide.
What puzzles me most is the fact that I keep setting it to disable hibernate/sleep/standby, etc., and it works for awhile, then gets reset; yet I haven't changed anything in these settings, and never touch them -- except of course that this problem keeps recurring.
Bill
On Tue, 3 Aug 2021, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 03 August 2021 22:50:59 Gianluca Interlandi wrote:
systemctl --user mask sleep.target suspend.target
I am running Devuan Beowulf: no systemd, only init on my system. As there is no systemd, there also seems to be no systemctl. I searched apt for the package, and it only brings up systemd, so it must depend on systemd or be part of that package.
I would suggest switching to runlevel 3 as I mentioned in my first e-mail. To do this, logout from your desktop, then either log in as root in a konsole (Ctrl+Alt+F2) or remotely from another machine and enter:
telinit 3
You can set this permanently in /etc/inittab (this is in openSUSE, not sure in your distribution).
Then, you can login as user from a konsole and enter
startx
You may first have to set the SUID bit for /usr/bin/Xorg (as root):
chmod u+s /usr/bin/Xorg
See: https://www.x.org/wiki/FAQMiscellaneous/
You will also need to set the WINDOWMANAGER environment variable to point to TDE.
Gianluca
Incidentally, why not disable it system-wide? As I am the only user, and I generally leave my desktop running for long-term tasks, it would seem preferable to me that it is disabled system-wide.
What puzzles me most is the fact that I keep setting it to disable hibernate/sleep/standby, etc., and it works for awhile, then gets reset; yet I haven't changed anything in these settings, and never touch them -- except of course that this problem keeps recurring.
Bill ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. -----------------------------------------------------
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2021 Tue, 3 Aug 21:17:22 -0700 William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
Okay, so riddle me this. I have totally disabled power management for my system, created a user profile, made it the same as my default profile so that it ought to be the only profile that loads. (I do this through the Trinity Control Center / System Administration / Monitor & Display / Power Managment.)
Yet my system still goes into hibernate mode (or so I believe) after it has been left unattended (that is, no direct actions involving myself).
This is a desktop system, built by myself out of parts, but I am running Devuan Beowulf and the most recent upgrade from the PTB repository. I don't need to use power management, since there is no battery to worry about.
This annoys me on a daily basis, because I get up in the morning (about noon or so), and find that it has gone into hibernate mode, despite the fact that I have left some large downloads unattended, trusting that they could be left to manage themselves. The power light blinks, the monitor has been shut off, etc.; and when I press the power button, it springs back to life, except that I have been disconnected and whatever I have left running has been interrupted only partially finished.
It used to be I could create a profile, set it to run as the default, and everything would be fine. But now it always goes into hibernate mode, no matter what I do. I have also tried to create the profile in administrator mode, but the result is always the same.
Any clues about what is wrong here? Thanks for any help!
Bill
right click on the TDEpowersave icon (the plug) --> Settings. For each scheme you'll have to deselect "automatic suspend" (or whatever it's called in englisch) - see screenshot.
Nik
tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 00:35:13 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
right click on the TDEpowersave icon (the plug) --> Settings. For each scheme you'll have to deselect "automatic suspend" (or whatever it's called in englisch) - see screenshot.
Nik
Hi Nik!
From what I can tell -- and I checked every jot and tittle in the TDE powersave window -- I have disabled powersave settings in all configurations. I make *performance* the default setting, but all modes are set the same. Yet my machine still presumes to do my thinking for me, and to save the environment by ruining my downloads and other work.
See screenshot (attached). I have put yours side-by-side with my own, but cannot find what is missing.
Bill
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 4 Aug 01:57:02 -0700 William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 00:35:13 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
right click on the TDEpowersave icon (the plug) --> Settings. For each scheme you'll have to deselect "automatic suspend" (or whatever it's called in englisch) - see screenshot.
Nik
Hi Nik!
From what I can tell -- and I checked every jot and tittle in the TDE powersave window -- I have disabled powersave settings in all configurations. I make *performance* the default setting, but all modes are set the same. Yet my machine still presumes to do my thinking for me, and to save the environment by ruining my downloads and other work.
See screenshot (attached). I have put yours side-by-side with my own, but cannot find what is missing.
Bill
It's thwe 3rd tab "Autosuspend" on the right that you have to check.
Nik
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 02:00:05 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 4 Aug 01:57:02 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 00:35:13 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
right click on the TDEpowersave icon (the plug) --> Settings. For each scheme you'll have to deselect "automatic suspend" (or whatever it's called in englisch) - see screenshot.
Nik
Hi Nik!
From what I can tell -- and I checked every jot and tittle in the TDE powersave window -- I have disabled powersave settings in all configurations. I make *performance* the default setting, but all modes are set the same. Yet my machine still presumes to do my thinking for me, and to save the environment by ruining my downloads and other work.
See screenshot (attached). I have put yours side-by-side with my own, but cannot find what is missing.
Bill
It's thwe 3rd tab "Autosuspend" on the right that you have to check.
Nik
By *check* I will assume that you mean I must inspect it (rather than to "check" it in the sense of ticking or marking that box).
In any case, as you can see by the new screenshot (see attachment), autosuspend is already disabled.
:-7
Bill
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 4 Aug 02:18:59 -0700 William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 02:00:05 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 4 Aug 01:57:02 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 00:35:13 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
right click on the TDEpowersave icon (the plug) --> Settings. For each scheme you'll have to deselect "automatic suspend" (or whatever it's called in englisch) - see screenshot.
Nik
Hi Nik!
From what I can tell -- and I checked every jot and tittle in the TDE powersave window -- I have disabled powersave settings in all configurations. I make *performance* the default setting, but all modes are set the same. Yet my machine still presumes to do my thinking for me, and to save the environment by ruining my downloads and other work.
See screenshot (attached). I have put yours side-by-side with my own, but cannot find what is missing.
Bill
It's thwe 3rd tab "Autosuspend" on the right that you have to check.
Nik
By *check* I will assume that you mean I must inspect it (rather than to "check" it in the sense of ticking or marking that box).
In any case, as you can see by the new screenshot (see attachment), autosuspend is already disabled.
Ok. Did you disable it in all schemes?
Nik
:-7
Bill
I forgot:
~/.trinity/share/config/tdepowersaverc ~/.trinity/share/config/kpowersave.eventsrc
Theses are the suspects for unwanted suspend/hibernate. If there's no command specified that could possibly send your machine to suspend/hibernate, then things get interesting: - Check BIOS settings - Stop TDE and observe if suspend/hibernate occurs without X11
Nik
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 4 Aug 02:18:59 -0700 William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 02:00:05 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 4 Aug 01:57:02 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 00:35:13 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
right click on the TDEpowersave icon (the plug) --> Settings. For each scheme you'll have to deselect "automatic suspend" (or whatever it's called in englisch) - see screenshot.
Nik
Hi Nik!
From what I can tell -- and I checked every jot and tittle in the TDE powersave window -- I have disabled powersave settings in all configurations. I make *performance* the default setting, but all modes are set the same. Yet my machine still presumes to do my thinking for me, and to save the environment by ruining my downloads and other work.
See screenshot (attached). I have put yours side-by-side with my own, but cannot find what is missing.
Bill
It's thwe 3rd tab "Autosuspend" on the right that you have to check.
Nik
By *check* I will assume that you mean I must inspect it (rather than to "check" it in the sense of ticking or marking that box).
In any case, as you can see by the new screenshot (see attachment), autosuspend is already disabled.
:-7
Bill
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 03:33:54 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
It's thwe 3rd tab "Autosuspend" on the right that you have to check.
Nik
By *check* I will assume that you mean I must inspect it (rather than to "check" it in the sense of ticking or marking that box).
In any case, as you can see by the new screenshot (see attachment), autosuspend is already disabled.
:-7
Bill
I forgot:
~/.trinity/share/config/tdepowersaverc ~/.trinity/share/config/kpowersave.eventsrc
Theses are the suspects for unwanted suspend/hibernate. If there's no command specified that could possibly send your machine to suspend/hibernate, then things get interesting: - Check BIOS settings
- Stop TDE and observe if suspend/hibernate occurs without X11
Nik
In answer to your previous email: Yes, I did disable it in all settings.
Thanks for pointing me to those -rc files. I used to look for them early on in order to force other preferences or settings (changing permissions to read-only on those files), but the same idea didn't occur to me here.
I think I got out of the habit when TDE started using a different kind of configuration file (.kcfg, I think?) for some programs, and it's not so easy to make those changes.
Let's see if I can get it that way.
Bill
On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 21:17:22 -0700 William Morder via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
Okay, so riddle me this. I have totally disabled power management for my system, created a user profile, made it the same as my default profile so that it ought to be the only profile that loads. (I do this through the Trinity Control Center / System Administration / Monitor & Display / Power Managment.)
Yet my system still goes into hibernate mode (or so I believe) after it has been left unattended (that is, no direct actions involving myself).
This is a desktop system, built by myself out of parts, but I am running Devuan Beowulf and the most recent upgrade from the PTB repository. I don't need to use power management, since there is no battery to worry about.
The nuclear option would be to rebuild the kernel without support for suspend, but that may be overkill. There *should* be a software "helper" at some level (below TDE, but above the kernel) that you can kill instead. Possible suspects include elogind, suspend (https://github.com/bircoph/suspend), hibernate-script (https://gitlab.com/nigelcunningham/Hibernate-Script), and the obsolete pm-utils. There may be other Devuan- or Debian-specific options that I don't know about.
E. Liddell
E. Liddell wrote:
The nuclear option would be to rebuild the kernel without support for suspend, but that may be overkill. There *should* be a software "helper" at some level (below TDE, but above the kernel) that you can kill instead. Possible suspects include elogind, suspend (https://github.com/bircoph/suspend), hibernate-script (https://gitlab.com/nigelcunningham/Hibernate-Script), and the obsolete pm-utils. There may be other Devuan- or Debian-specific options that I don't know about.
if you use systemd
sudo systemctl mask sleep.target suspend.target hibernate.target hybrid-sleep.target
I don't remember if you mentioned it is a laptop or a desktop.
If laptop could be lid close thing
On Wed, 04 Aug 2021 19:55:42 +0200 deloptes emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org wrote:
E. Liddell wrote:
The nuclear option would be to rebuild the kernel without support for suspend, but that may be overkill. There *should* be a software "helper" at some level (below TDE, but above the kernel) that you can kill instead. Possible suspects include elogind, suspend (https://github.com/bircoph/suspend), hibernate-script (https://gitlab.com/nigelcunningham/Hibernate-Script), and the obsolete pm-utils. There may be other Devuan- or Debian-specific options that I don't know about.
if you use systemd
sudo systemctl mask sleep.target suspend.target hibernate.target hybrid-sleep.target
I don't remember if you mentioned it is a laptop or a desktop.
If laptop could be lid close thing
Original poster already stated it was a Devuan desktop, so no systemd and no lid to close.
E. Liddell
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 12:16:22 E. Liddell wrote:
On Wed, 04 Aug 2021 19:55:42 +0200
deloptes emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org wrote:
E. Liddell wrote:
The nuclear option would be to rebuild the kernel without support for suspend, but that may be overkill. There *should* be a software "helper" at some level (below TDE, but above the kernel) that you can kill instead. Possible suspects include elogind, suspend (https://github.com/bircoph/suspend), hibernate-script (https://gitlab.com/nigelcunningham/Hibernate-Script), and the obsolete pm-utils. There may be other Devuan- or Debian-specific options that I don't know about.
if you use systemd
sudo systemctl mask sleep.target suspend.target hibernate.target hybrid-sleep.target
I don't remember if you mentioned it is a laptop or a desktop.
If laptop could be lid close thing
Original poster already stated it was a Devuan desktop, so no systemd and no lid to close.
E. Liddell
Just thought I'd post a note that this issue seems to have been resolved, at least for the time being, at least to my own satisfaction. I don't know that the problem is actually *solved*, but for now I am able to get on with actual life instead of futzing all night with my various settings.
Other methods that were suggested seemed rather too involved, though they might also have got the job done. But really it is pretty simple.
I did have a few gnome and gnustep packages installed, due to my brief need for unrar or unrar-free or whatever it was; however, these seem only maybe to have indirectly affected my settings, which may ultimately have come down to a permissions problem. To wit:
Following Nik's suggestion, I edited this file: /home/>USER>/.trinity/share/config/tdepowersaverc
I set some of the time values ridiculously high (i.e., only autodimm after about 150 years or so, in minutes), and changed some other settings in this file. Others are probably better at this than I, but anyway, it did the trick.
As I said earlier, I used to edit these -rc files all the time, in order to get my machines to behave (when running KDE3/TDE), though I don't recall using this simple method to control the ~powersave settings. I used it a lot for the ~networkmanager, but somehow got out of the habit. (I think it's because TDE has changed some of the config files to a different format, but I haven't kept up.)
Before changing my settings in this file, I make a backup, tdepowersaverc-orig, and after changing my settings, I save a copy of this to a safe location, so that I can just use cp to overwrite this file whenever it gets a mind of its own again.
Last step is to change permissions on this file to read-only, so that only I as admin can alter the settings.
Since then I have let it run overnight for a few days, and it has gone through one reboot during that period, yet my settings now remain constant throughout, so it seems to be resolved. Whether the problem returns, I don't know, but for now things are back to normal for me.
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions!
Bill
if you use systemd
Original poster already stated it was a Devuan desktop, so no systemd and no lid to close.
E. Liddell
Okay, so now the plot thickens to the consistency of mud.
My machine has been humming along peacefully now for about 10 days (since I changed the config file here: /home/<USER>/.trinity/share/config/tdepowersaverc
To bring everybody up to speed: I want to make it so that my machine NEVER goes into hibernate/standby/sleep or whatever. It's not that I am not concerned for the environment, nor that I am uninterested in saving a little money on electricity; but I do that manually, by pushing the power button on the monitor, and by shutting off other unnecessary stuff, like my speakers, etc. I don't like when machines try to do my thinking for me.
I run a Frankestein desktop (self-built, created out of parts), and I am running Devuan Beowulf, upgraded recently from the Trinity PTB repository.
For some reason that I could not determine, it was going into hibernate mode after a few hours left unattended, which was really screwing up my life, as I was running various tasks overnight. I wake up in the morning (usually early afternoon, that is), and the power light is blinking. I push the button and it resumes, but my work is interrupted.
After changing that config file, everything went fine for about ten days. Then suddenly last night before bed (as the sun was just coming up and the birds were chirping), my screen flickered, and I briefly caught sight of a notification telling me that a "new display" or "another monitor" was now available, then it went dark, then came back. For the record: I don't have another monitor.
However ... I have been having rather a lot of what seem to be intrusion attempts. I have been getting weird emails from people who have exited the scene five or six years ago; they are dated 31 December 1969 (which date I get whenever, it seems, an email is corrupt). I will get several of these, every time I check email. Moreover, my most recent emails from other sources (especially the TDE mailing list) get resent to me; on a busy day, I was deleting 150 emails from the Trinity list. This went away, but now it's back; thankfully, it hasn't been too busy on the Trinity list, so I've only had to delete maybe a dozen or so in the past day or two.
There are other very strange events, but they are all like this, as though my system is under attack, but I cannot find any source. I don't know that this is especially unusual, as I expect that many others have to put up with intrusion attempts, but maybe they never notice them.
Whether these events are all related or not, I cannot tell, but they seem related; or at least, trouble in one place tends to make things more complicated, and other problems contribute to make everything worse.
I checked TCC / System Administration / Monitor & Display / Global Settings and it seems that (under hotplug rules) a box was marked for :0:VIRTUAL1, which I don't recall was marked before. I unmarked it, and looked for some corresponding line to edit in the config file, but I see nothing.
Does anybody out there have a clue about what's going on?
Bill
On Friday 13 August 2021 02:53:55 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
However ... I have been having rather a lot of what seem to be intrusion attempts.
Do you have a firewall installed? ufw is the usual Debian (&derivitives) one. Gufw Firewall (gufw), http://gufw.org , is a GUI for it, which makes it insanely simple to setup.
Note: If you are getting huge numbers of intrusion attempts, gufw's logs will fill up rootfs fairly fast if rootfs is on it's own partition (default is usually 50G when installed separately from /home)
I have been getting weird emails from people who have exited the scene five or six years ago; they are dated 31 December 1969 (which date I get whenever, it seems, an email is corrupt).
Check your disk(s)?? Smart something or other. I can look it up if needed.
HTH, Michael
On Friday 13 August 2021 13:40:08 Michael wrote:
On Friday 13 August 2021 02:53:55 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
However ... I have been having rather a lot of what seem to be intrusion attempts.
Do you have a firewall installed? ufw is the usual Debian (&derivitives) one. Gufw Firewall (gufw), http://gufw.org , is a GUI for it, which makes it insanely simple to setup.
Yup, I have ufw and gufw installed. (I believe that was on your own advice, as I used to rely on firestarter, which has been discontinued.
Note: If you are getting huge numbers of intrusion attempts, gufw's logs will fill up rootfs fairly fast if rootfs is on it's own partition (default is usually 50G when installed separately from /home)
Yes, I need to check logs. I disabled logging due to this very problem: I would run out of space on that partition every few days. However, logging exists for good reasons, and this is probably one of them.
And here was I thinking that a root partition shouldn't need much more than 20 GB, so that my 30+ GB ought to be more than enough.
I have been getting weird emails from people who have exited the scene five or six years ago; they are dated 31 December 1969 (which date I get whenever, it seems, an email is corrupt).
Check your disk(s)?? Smart something or other. I can look it up if needed.
Smart card or something? Not sure to what you're referring.
HTH, Michael
On Friday 13 August 2021 04:02:45 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Check your disk(s)?? Smart something or other. I can look it up if needed.
Smart card or something? Not sure to what you're referring.
It’s ‘smartctl’
Do your internet research before you run these! It’s definitely possible to fubar your system if you typo something.
I’m using /dev/sdb below, change as needed.
This will give you a status of a drive.
root@local [~]# smartctl --all /dev/sdb blah, blah SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED blah, blah
Then badblocks to check the health of an unmounted partition.
root@local [~]# umount /dev/sdb
--or-- if encrypted (change to whatever you have)
root@local [~]# umount /dev/mapper/lesdb root@local [~]# cryptsetup luksClose lesdb
Then find the block size root@local [~]# blockdev --getbsz /dev/sdb 4096
Finally run badblocks.
This stops at the first error. root@local [~]# badblocks -svn -b 4096 -e 1 /dev/sdb
(If you have no errors above, you don’t need to run this) This logs all errors to a text file: root@local [~]# badblocks -svn -b 4096 /dev/sdb > badblocks.sdb
Notes (on my system, ymmv): badblocks takes approximately 40 hours on a 6TB disk. badblocks takes approximately 45 hours on a 9TB disk.
HTH, Michael
said William Morder via tde-users:
| Okay, so riddle me this. I have totally disabled power management for my | system, created a user profile, made it the same as my default profile | so that it ought to be the only profile that loads. (I do this through | the Trinity Control Center / System Administration / Monitor & Display / | Power Managment.) | | Yet my system still goes into hibernate mode (or so I believe) after it | has been left unattended (that is, no direct actions involving myself).
Might you have some Gnome thing running or at least set? I've occasionally found unwanted behavior attributable to some Gnome default (that I can't get to -- is there a Gnome equivalent to KControl?), and it could be that you have some Gnome package that forces this behavior, as if it were the government of California. -- dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
said dep:
| Might you have some Gnome thing running or at least set? I've | occasionally found unwanted behavior attributable to some Gnome default | (that I can't get to -- is there a Gnome equivalent to KControl?), and | it could be that you have some Gnome package that forces this behavior, | as if it were the government of California.
Okay, just found gnome-control-center -- now to make some changes! -- dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 04 Aug 14:00:16 +0000 dep scripsit:
said dep:
| Might you have some Gnome thing running or at least set? I've | occasionally found unwanted behavior attributable to some Gnome default | (that I can't get to -- is there a Gnome equivalent to KControl?), and | it could be that you have some Gnome package that forces this behavior, | as if it were the government of California.
Okay, just found gnome-control-center -- now to make some changes!
LOL ... I'd first look if anything GNOMEish is running or installed, e.g.
$ dpkg -l|grep -i gnome $ ps ax|grep gnome
... which just happend to show me
/usr/libexec/at-spi2-registryd --use-gnome-session
which was draged in by some other GNOMEish package (hate that!) ... well, it is no more :)
Nik
-- dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/ ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 04 Aug 13:56:12 +0000 dep scripsit:
said William Morder via tde-users:
| Okay, so riddle me this. I have totally disabled power management for my | system, created a user profile, made it the same as my default profile | so that it ought to be the only profile that loads. (I do this through | the Trinity Control Center / System Administration / Monitor & Display / | Power Managment.) | | Yet my system still goes into hibernate mode (or so I believe) after it | has been left unattended (that is, no direct actions involving myself).
Might you have some Gnome thing running or at least set? I've occasionally found unwanted behavior attributable to some Gnome default (that I can't get to -- is there a Gnome equivalent to KControl?), and it could be that you have some Gnome package that forces this behavior, as if it were the government of California.
Oh my, just look at the gnomes in EU ... disgusting. But GNOMEs is a good hint.
-- dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/ ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
said Dr. Nikolaus Klepp:
| > Might you have some Gnome thing running or at least set? I've | > occasionally found unwanted behavior attributable to some Gnome | > default (that I can't get to -- is there a Gnome equivalent to | > KControl?), and it could be that you have some Gnome package that | > forces this behavior, as if it were the government of California. | | Oh my, just look at the gnomes in EU ... disgusting. But GNOMEs is a | good hint.
You might not have heard -- and it's vaguely on topic -- that a law in California recently went into affect that prohibits shipment to the state of computers that a.) won't suspend/hibernate and b.) use too much power when suspended or hibernating. There are exceptions, but they require you to hire a lawyer for your tech support. Dell isn't shipping certain Alienware machines (who would want one?) to California as a result.
https://hothardware.com/news/californias-confusing-energy-law-may-have-just-... -- dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
dep wrote:
You might not have heard -- and it's vaguely on topic -- that a law in California recently went into affect that prohibits shipment to the state of computers that a.) won't suspend/hibernate and b.) use too much power when suspended or hibernating. There are exceptions, but they require you to hire a lawyer for your tech support. Dell isn't shipping certain Alienware machines (who would want one?) to California as a result.
shame on you ... consuming too much power. You must save on it, so that Mr. Tesla makes more money
So ... starting a new thread, cleaning out all that bad karma.
quoting Nik: There is a IRC group, Slavek posted it som months ago: https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
Host: irc.libera.chat:6697 (ssl) Channel: #trinity-desktop
You can use "ksirc-trinity" as IRC client - in fact, I just instsalled it to give it a try :)
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer correctly). After setting up everything else I could find, I seem to be missing something, namely the server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I looked up the web page from the link given above, but I see nothing to help.
Not saying that anybody will actually use it, but maybe this is a good place to start. We can at least test it.
Bill
William Morder via tde-users composed on 2021-10-09 11:21 (UTC-0700):
quoting Nik: There is a IRC group, Slavek posted it som months ago: https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
Host: irc.libera.chat:6697 (ssl) Channel: #trinity-desktop
You can use "ksirc-trinity" as IRC client - in fact, I just instsalled it to give it a try :)
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer correctly). After setting up everything else I could find, I seem to be missing something, namely the server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I looked up the web page from the link given above, but I see nothing to help.
Not saying that anybody will actually use it, but maybe this is a good place to start. We can at least test it.
21 nicks there ATM. I've been using #trinity-desktop for years, & Slavek longer. ;P Turnaround is generally faster, and people don't fullquote fullquotes of fullquotes of fullquotes.... ;P
On 10/9/21 11:21 AM, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer correctly). After setting up everything else I could find, I seem to be missing something, namely the server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I looked up the web page from the link given above, but I see nothing to help.
It's probably easiest to just use a browser on their website.
https://libera.chat/ top left, Navigation / Connect / Webchat
Enter whatever nick you want, and the channel name #trinity-desktop
...and you're in.
On Saturday 09 October 2021 19:21:46 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
So ... starting a new thread, cleaning out all that bad karma.
quoting Nik: There is a IRC group, Slavek posted it som months ago: https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinit ydesktop.org/message/AYVTPKNNL7CHQBXZK64EMPULQ2ISAJEX/
Host: irc.libera.chat:6697 (ssl) Channel: #trinity-desktop
You can use "ksirc-trinity" as IRC client - in fact, I just instsalled it to give it a try :)
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer correctly). After setting up everything else I could find, I seem to be missing something, namely the server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I looked up the web page from the link given above, but I see nothing to help.
Not saying that anybody will actually use it, but maybe this is a good place to start. We can at least test it.
Bill
tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinit ydesktop.org
Remember you can join Libera.Chat channels from Matrix just trying to join to #channelnamehere:libera.chat where #channelnamehere is the name of the channel.
On Saturday 09 October 2021 12:41:07 Echedey Lopez Romero via tde-users wrote:
On Saturday 09 October 2021 19:21:46 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
So ... starting a new thread, cleaning out all that bad karma.
quoting Nik: There is a IRC group, Slavek posted it som months ago: https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinit ydesktop.org/message/AYVTPKNNL7CHQBXZK64EMPULQ2ISAJEX/
Host: irc.libera.chat:6697 (ssl) Channel: #trinity-desktop
You can use "ksirc-trinity" as IRC client - in fact, I just instsalled it to give it a try :)
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer correctly). After setting up everything else I could find, I seem to be missing something, namely the server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I looked up the web page from the link given above, but I see nothing to help.
Not saying that anybody will actually use it, but maybe this is a good place to start. We can at least test it.
Bill
I tried with ksirc, but so far no luck. I also poked around in psi-plus, since I have like using that and it's supposed to have IRC capabilities, but again it's without success.
Right now I have to run to the post office before they close, and do a couple other things. If I survive my adventures out there in physical space (which some call the "real world"), then I will try again later in a few hours.
If anybody out there uses IRC, and has luck with this client or that, or knows what I am missing in my setup, I will be watching for any help or clues.
Bill
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2021 Sat, 9 Oct 11:21:46 -0700 William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
So ... starting a new thread, cleaning out all that bad karma.
quoting Nik: There is a IRC group, Slavek posted it som months ago: https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
Host: irc.libera.chat:6697 (ssl) Channel: #trinity-desktop
You can use "ksirc-trinity" as IRC client - in fact, I just instsalled it to give it a try :)
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer correctly). After setting up everything else I could find, I seem to be missing something, namely the server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I looked up the web page from the link given above, but I see nothing to help.
In ksirc you should not set the checkmark on "SSL", otherwise it will not connect. I guess the server does not use encryption for the IRC protocol, just the webclient uses https.
Nik
Not saying that anybody will actually use it, but maybe this is a good place to start. We can at least test it.
Bill
tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
On Sunday 10 October 2021 09:46:26 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2021 Sat, 9 Oct 11:21:46 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
So ... starting a new thread, cleaning out all that bad karma.
quoting Nik: There is a IRC group, Slavek posted it som months ago: https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydes ktop.org/message/AYVTPKNNL7CHQBXZK64EMPULQ2ISAJEX/
Host: irc.libera.chat:6697 (ssl) Channel: #trinity-desktop
You can use "ksirc-trinity" as IRC client - in fact, I just instsalled it to give it a try :)
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer correctly). After setting up everything else I could find, I seem to be missing something, namely the server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I looked up the web page from the link given above, but I see nothing to help.
In ksirc you should not set the checkmark on "SSL", otherwise it will not connect. I guess the server does not use encryption for the IRC protocol, just the webclient uses https.
Nik
Not saying that anybody will actually use it, but maybe this is a good place to start. We can at least test it.
Bill
A ha!
Thanks, Nik!
I see from the other post this morning that dep also is getting the same error in Konversation.
One thing that rather annoyed me is that after I had disconnected ksirc, I kept seeing attempts at connection when watching my network traffic. The only way that I could kill them was to reboot.
There's something I don't like, and I hope that I can change it.
Bill
Dne ne 10. října 2021 19:15:37 William Morder via tde-users napsal(a):
On Sunday 10 October 2021 09:46:26 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2021 Sat, 9 Oct 11:21:46 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
So ... starting a new thread, cleaning out all that bad karma.
quoting Nik: There is a IRC group, Slavek posted it som months ago: https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trini tydes ktop.org/message/AYVTPKNNL7CHQBXZK64EMPULQ2ISAJEX/
Host: irc.libera.chat:6697 (ssl) Channel: #trinity-desktop
You can use "ksirc-trinity" as IRC client - in fact, I just instsalled it to give it a try :)
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer correctly). After setting up everything else I could find, I seem to be missing something, namely the server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I looked up the web page from the link given above, but I see nothing to help.
In ksirc you should not set the checkmark on "SSL", otherwise it will not connect. I guess the server does not use encryption for the IRC protocol, just the webclient uses https.
Nik
Not saying that anybody will actually use it, but maybe this is a good place to start. We can at least test it.
Bill
A ha!
Thanks, Nik!
I see from the other post this morning that dep also is getting the same error in Konversation.
One thing that rather annoyed me is that after I had disconnected ksirc, I kept seeing attempts at connection when watching my network traffic. The only way that I could kill them was to reboot.
There's something I don't like, and I hope that I can change it.
Bill ____________________________________________________
Hi all,
I don't know what is the status of SSL support in ksirc, but in kopete I use connection to irc.libera.chat with port 6697 and with SSL support. The only inconvenience in functionality is that every time I join I must confirm the SSL certificate.
Cheers
Sorry for top posting: To kill those attempts to connect, right click on the tiny icon in Kicker and choose "quit" or from the main Konversation window File > Quit. ("killall konversation" at a prompt ought to do it, too.) No need to reboot.
dep Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 1:15 PM, William Morder via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
On Sunday 10 October 2021 09:46:26 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2021 Sat, 9 Oct 11:21:46 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
So ... starting a new thread, cleaning out all that bad karma.
quoting Nik: There is a IRC group, Slavek posted it som months ago: https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydes ktop.org/message/AYVTPKNNL7CHQBXZK64EMPULQ2ISAJEX/
Host: irc.libera.chat:6697 (ssl) Channel: #trinity-desktop
You can use "ksirc-trinity" as IRC client - in fact, I just instsalled it to give it a try :)
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer correctly). After setting up everything else I could find, I seem to be missing something, namely the server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I looked up the web page from the link given above, but I see nothing to help.
In ksirc you should not set the checkmark on "SSL", otherwise it will not connect. I guess the server does not use encryption for the IRC protocol, just the webclient uses https.
Nik
Not saying that anybody will actually use it, but maybe this is a good place to start. We can at least test it.
Bill
A ha!
Thanks, Nik!
I see from the other post this morning that dep also is getting the same error in Konversation.
One thing that rather annoyed me is that after I had disconnected ksirc, I kept seeing attempts at connection when watching my network traffic. The only way that I could kill them was to reboot.
There's something I don't like, and I hope that I can change it.
Bill ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
I tried connecting over Tor, then tried a direct connection, but I keep getting these messages:
Connecting to irc.libera.chat, port 6667... Doing SSL server connect... I encountered a problem: () SSL connect attempt failed error:1408F10B:SSL routines:ssl3_get_record:wrong version number at /opt/trinity/bin/dsirc line 274. Invalid hostname or port?
Bill
There is a recurring glitch in my emails, which involves another person (person A) here on the mailing list. (I don't name him here, but I have already contacted him to ask about it.) It involves the mailing list, maybe, because I only know him from the list, and we have only exchanged a couple of personal emails outside the list.
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B) who is not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from her phone, the private email address of this first person (person A, a member of the list) showed up in her (person B's) email headers. There is absolutely no other connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
I went through other email correspondents, to see if something similar was happening, but it only seems to be with these two people. I created an entirely new email (no metadata from replies, etc.) to send her (person B) something, and again I found person A's headers in this email that I sent.
So it doesn't seem to matter if person B or myself initiate the email; the headers from person A (who is a member of this list) always show up in the headers.
Sorry for the vague description, but I am taking pains to avoid mentioning names. If person A (member of the list) chooses to join the conversation, then I can speak a little more freely. And let me make it clear that I do not suspect either of these people of anything at all, as they both seem as clueless as myself about these matters.
Can anybody offer an explanation for this email quirk? I bring my question here, because it involves somebody else who is a member of the list, so that it might be a concern for other members of the list, and of course for the moderators, Slavek, et al.
I would be glad to offer a sample of the headers, but I also need to consider the other persons involved.
Bill
Are you using KMail?
dep Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 9:41 PM, William Morder via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
There is a recurring glitch in my emails, which involves another person (person A) here on the mailing list. (I don't name him here, but I have already contacted him to ask about it.) It involves the mailing list, maybe, because I only know him from the list, and we have only exchanged a couple of personal emails outside the list.
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B) who is not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from her phone, the private email address of this first person (person A, a member of the list) showed up in her (person B's) email headers. There is absolutely no other connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
I went through other email correspondents, to see if something similar was happening, but it only seems to be with these two people. I created an entirely new email (no metadata from replies, etc.) to send her (person B) something, and again I found person A's headers in this email that I sent.
So it doesn't seem to matter if person B or myself initiate the email; the headers from person A (who is a member of this list) always show up in the headers.
Sorry for the vague description, but I am taking pains to avoid mentioning names. If person A (member of the list) chooses to join the conversation, then I can speak a little more freely. And let me make it clear that I do not suspect either of these people of anything at all, as they both seem as clueless as myself about these matters.
Can anybody offer an explanation for this email quirk? I bring my question here, because it involves somebody else who is a member of the list, so that it might be a concern for other members of the list, and of course for the moderators, Slavek, et al.
I would be glad to offer a sample of the headers, but I also need to consider the other persons involved.
Bill
tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
On Tuesday 19 October 2021 18:45:20 dep wrote:
[Editing to change from top posting, because I know that you can't bottom post from somewhere or other. See below.]
Also, apologies for accidentally sending to your private email! I just hit reply without looking.
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 9:41 PM, William Morder via tde-users
users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
There is a recurring glitch in my emails, which involves another person (person A) here on the mailing list. (I don't name him here, but I have already contacted him to ask about it.) It involves the mailing list, maybe, because I only know him from the list, and we have only exchanged a couple of personal emails outside the list.
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B) who is not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from her phone, the private email address of this first person (person A, a member of the list) showed up in her (person B's) email headers. There is absolutely no other connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
I went through other email correspondents, to see if something similar was happening, but it only seems to be with these two people. I created an entirely new email (no metadata from replies, etc.) to send her (person B) something, and again I found person A's headers in this email that I sent.
So it doesn't seem to matter if person B or myself initiate the email; the headers from person A (who is a member of this list) always show up in the headers.
Sorry for the vague description, but I am taking pains to avoid mentioning names. If person A (member of the list) chooses to join the conversation, then I can speak a little more freely. And let me make it clear that I do not suspect either of these people of anything at all, as they both seem as clueless as myself about these matters.
Can anybody offer an explanation for this email quirk? I bring my question here, because it involves somebody else who is a member of the list, so that it might be a concern for other members of the list, and of course for the moderators, Slavek, et al.
I would be glad to offer a sample of the headers, but I also need to consider the other persons involved.
Bill
Are you using KMail?
dep
Yes. Person A (member of list), also, I believe, uses Kmail.
The other person, B, does not use it, as she is unclear about anything that does not include the rotten Apple or Windoze. She knows almost nothing about security, privacy, etc., and I have had to urge her to take even the smallest reasonable precautions.
Bill
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 06:56:15PM -0700, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 19 October 2021 18:45:20 dep wrote:
[snip a page or so of quotes]
Are you using KMail?
dep
Yes. Person A (member of list), also, I believe, uses Kmail.
Thanks for bottom posting, but please trim the unnecessary quoting.
On Tuesday 19 October 2021 21:41:17 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
There is a recurring glitch in my emails, which involves another person (person A) here on the mailing list. (I don't name him here, but I have already contacted him to ask about it.) It involves the mailing list, maybe, because I only know him from the list, and we have only exchanged a couple of personal emails outside the list.
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B) who is not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from her phone, the private email address of this first person (person A, a member of the list) showed up in her (person B's) email headers. There is absolutely no other connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
I went through other email correspondents, to see if something similar was happening, but it only seems to be with these two people. I created an entirely new email (no metadata from replies, etc.) to send her (person B) something, and again I found person A's headers in this email that I sent.
So it doesn't seem to matter if person B or myself initiate the email; the headers from person A (who is a member of this list) always show up in the headers.
Sorry for the vague description, but I am taking pains to avoid mentioning names. If person A (member of the list) chooses to join the conversation, then I can speak a little more freely. And let me make it clear that I do not suspect either of these people of anything at all, as they both seem as clueless as myself about these matters.
Can anybody offer an explanation for this email quirk? I bring my question here, because it involves somebody else who is a member of the list, so that it might be a concern for other members of the list, and of course for the moderators, Slavek, et al.
I would be glad to offer a sample of the headers, but I also need to consider the other persons involved.
Bill
I am person A. And I'm as puzzled as Bill. Person B, whom I've never heard of, is halfway around this ball of rock and water. Yet my email addy is in the References: header line coming from Persn B's phone. An Android phone I believe.
A new method of broadcasting spam recipient addy's? My incoming spam level has increased, but not enough to point fingers. Spamassassin nails 95% of its anyway.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
On Tue October 19 2021 18:41:17 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
There is a recurring glitch in my emails, which involves another person (person A) here on the mailing list. (I don't name him here, but I have already contacted him to ask about it.) It involves the mailing list, maybe, because I only know him from the list, and we have only exchanged a couple of personal emails outside the list.
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B) who is not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from her phone, the private email address of this first person (person A, a member of the list) showed up in her (person B's) email headers. There is absolutely no other connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
Hi William,
Your email quoted in part above contains the following headers:
References: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net In-Reply-To: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net
Either your KMail is really messed up or you sometimes start an email and then repurpose it. For example it looks like that email started as a reply to Gene and then you changed it to go to the list but it already had the references to Gene in it.
This could explain how references to person A got into your correspondence with person B.
--Mike
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 02:02:34 Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue October 19 2021 18:41:17 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
There is a recurring glitch in my emails, which involves another person (person A) here on the mailing list. (I don't name him here, but I have already contacted him to ask about it.) It involves the mailing list, maybe, because I only know him from the list, and we have only exchanged a couple of personal emails outside the list.
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B) who is not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from her phone, the private email address of this first person (person A, a member of the list) showed up in her (person B's) email headers. There is absolutely no other connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
Hi William,
Your email quoted in part above contains the following headers:
References: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net In-Reply-To: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net
Either your KMail is really messed up or you sometimes start an email and then repurpose it. For example it looks like that email started as a reply to Gene and then you changed it to go to the list but it already had the references to Gene in it.
This could explain how references to person A got into your correspondence with person B.
--Mike
I do that too. Adding and occasionally deleting target adresses after the composer is opened.
And I'd call that a bug, those headers should be composed when its sent, not when the composer is opened. They s/b done dynamically after its determined where the message is going.
My $0,02.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
Hi Bill,
Am Mittwoch, 20. Oktober 2021 schrieb Mike Bird:
Hi William,
Your email quoted in part above contains the following headers:
References: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net In-Reply-To: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net
Either your KMail is really messed up or you sometimes start an email and then repurpose it. For example it looks like that email started as a reply to Gene and then you changed it to go to the list but it already had the references to Gene in it.
This could explain how references to person A got into your correspondence with person B.
There is an option in the configuration dialog for Reply Address (translated, first item). Maybe you've set that… Just a guess.
HTH, Stefan
Am Mittwoch, 20. Oktober 2021 schrieb Stefan Krusche:
Hi Bill,
Am Mittwoch, 20. Oktober 2021 schrieb Mike Bird:
Hi William,
Your email quoted in part above contains the following headers:
References: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net In-Reply-To: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net
Either your KMail is really messed up or you sometimes start an email and then repurpose it. For example it looks like that email started as a reply to Gene and then you changed it to go to the list but it already had the references to Gene in it.
This could explain how references to person A got into your correspondence with person B.
There is an option in the configuration dialog for Reply Address (translated, first item). Maybe you've set that… Just a guess.
Under Settings -> Identities and in the properties dialog of a identity, that is.
Cheers
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 06:41:17PM -0700, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B) who is not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from her phone, the private email address of this first person (person A, a member of the list) showed up in her (person B's) email headers.
Which headers? Are you talking about person A's address showing up as the From address of person B's emails? Or some other header?
There is absolutely no other connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
There definitely seems to be something odd with your email headers. I've had a *very* brief look at a few, and:
1. Fresh emails from you starting a new thread often contain an In-Reply-To and Reference header. For instance, in one fresh email from you back in 2020, it included an In-Reply-To pointing to
201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net
which seems to be an email from 2018.
2. When you reply to an existing email, the Reference header refers to somebody *other* than the person whose email you replied to.
3. And your emails have what look to me like corrupt header lines, such as this one:
+h=from:reply-to:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:message-id;
which nobody else seems to have (at least not in my brief investigation). The leading + sign is actually a space or newline.
So something is not happy in your emails.
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 02:33:01 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 06:41:17PM -0700, William Morder via tde-users
wrote:
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B) who is not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from her phone, the private email address of this first person (person A, a member of the list) showed up in her (person B's) email headers.
Which headers? Are you talking about person A's address showing up as the From address of person B's emails? Or some other header?
There is absolutely no other connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
There definitely seems to be something odd with your email headers. I've had a *very* brief look at a few, and:
- Fresh emails from you starting a new thread often contain an
In-Reply-To and Reference header. For instance, in one fresh email from you back in 2020, it included an In-Reply-To pointing to
201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.netwhich seems to be an email from 2018.
- When you reply to an existing email, the Reference header refers to
somebody *other* than the person whose email you replied to.
- And your emails have what look to me like corrupt header lines,
such as this one:
+h=from:reply-to:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mim e-version:content-type:message-id;
which nobody else seems to have (at least not in my brief investigation). The leading + sign is actually a space or newline.
So something is not happy in your emails.
Where would I check that?, I'll see if I can fix it.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 02:50:13AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 02:33:01 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
[snip me describing problems with William's email]
Where would I check that?, I'll see if I can fix it.
I don't think you can fix William Morder's email woes at your end :-)
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 02:50:13 Gene Heskett wrote:
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 02:33:01 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 06:41:17PM -0700, William Morder via tde-users
wrote:
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B) who is not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from her phone, the private email address of this first person (person A, a member of the list) showed up in her (person B's) email headers.
Which headers? Are you talking about person A's address showing up as the From address of person B's emails? Or some other header?
There is absolutely no other connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
There definitely seems to be something odd with your email headers. I've had a *very* brief look at a few, and:
- Fresh emails from you starting a new thread often contain an
In-Reply-To and Reference header. For instance, in one fresh email from you back in 2020, it included an In-Reply-To pointing to
201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.netwhich seems to be an email from 2018.
- When you reply to an existing email, the Reference header refers
to somebody *other* than the person whose email you replied to.
- And your emails have what look to me like corrupt header lines,
such as this one:
+h=from:reply-to:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:m im e-version:content-type:message-id;
which nobody else seems to have (at least not in my brief investigation). The leading + sign is actually a space or newline.
So something is not happy in your emails.
Where would I check that?, I'll see if I can fix it.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
A copy/paste of the whole header as it leaves here for that last message: wordwrap off.
From: Gene Heskett gheskett@shentel.net Organization: none,nada,zip To: users@trinitydesktop.org Subject: Re: [tde-users] Re: email mess - maybe OT or not Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 02:50:13 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10
edited here References: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net < whats this do 202110191841.19683.doctor_contendo@zoho.com <ditto 20211020063300.GA7456@ando.pearwood.info <ditto to here as there are no newlines in the above.
In-Reply-To: 20211020063300.GA7456@ando.pearwood.info X-KMail-QuotePrefix: > X-KMail-Link-Message: 9934882 X-KMail-Link-Type: reply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: 202110200250.13755.gheskett@shentel.net Status: RO X-Status: RSC X-KMail-EncryptionState: X-KMail-SignatureState: X-KMail-MDN-Sent:
I have no clue where that References: line is coming from. It does not exist in any menu I can find.
Here is a puzzle though:
gene@coyote:~$ locate kmailrc /home/gene/.trinity/share/config/kmailrc
looking thru it with geany, I see two potentiial buffer overflows, the last, 5088th line is 2415 chars long. in the title [test-index],removed= long list of comma seperated 7 digit numbers.
backing up, to line 4542. under [general], "recent addresses" is 1428 chars long.
Everything else looks legit to these eyes.
Anyplace else that bears looking into?
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 03:48:15AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
edited here References: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net < whats this do 202110191841.19683.doctor_contendo@zoho.com <ditto 20211020063300.GA7456@ando.pearwood.info <ditto to here as there are no newlines in the above.
The References header shows a full list of the IDs of each email in the thread. So if there is a thread:
Alice emails message id 123 Bob replies to Alice's email, with his message id 456. Charlie replies to Bob's email, and his message id is 789. And Alice replies to Charlie, with her message id 987.
Then the References header will say:
References: <123> <456> <789> <987>
Except of course the IDs are not three digit numbers, they look more like 20211020051234.ABCDEF@domain.com. Here is your message id from the email I am replying to:
Message-Id: 202110200250.13755.gheskett@shentel.net
The message id is generated (I think) when you send the email.
The References header is used to help mail clients find the right place to display an email in threaded view, even if you change the subject line.
The In-Reply-To header shows the id of the email you actually hit "Reply To" (or "Reply All"). That's why if you hit Reply to an email, then change the subject line, your email client can usually still work out where to display it.
Going back to the original References list, we have three in the chain to that point:
201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net
That is the mystery reference ID that appeared in William's first post. It shouldn't appear there, because he wasn't replying to anyone, he was starting a new email from scratch.
202110191841.19683.doctor_contendo@zoho.com
That is the message id of William's first post.
20211020063300.GA7456@ando.pearwood.info
And that is the message id of my reply to William's post.
Going back to the mystery ID 2018... there is no good reason why it should be there, or why it refers to your email address. It should not be there! That is one of the reasons why I think William's mail is broken.
One possibility is that William clicked on a message from you, dated all the way back to 2018, hit "Reply All", changed the subject line, adjusted the To address to go to the list, and then wrote a fresh email and sent it.
Another possibility is that William has some sort of filter or automated system to configure his email. I see he has an Xface header set, I believe he also configured his email to use a different email address depending on the recipients. (I think.)
So it is possible that something has gone wrong with his filter or email script. William, can you check that?
Otherwise, I've run out of ideas.
Here is a puzzle though:
gene@coyote:~$ locate kmailrc /home/gene/.trinity/share/config/kmailrc
looking thru it with geany, I see two potentiial buffer overflows, the last, 5088th line is 2415 chars long. in the title [test-index],removed= long list of comma seperated 7 digit numbers.
There is nothing in your kmailrc that could be affecting William's posts.
I would be horrified to learn that a mere 2415 characters could cause a buffer overflow in kmail. I really hope that is not true. Normally, buffer overflows occur around the boundary of 2^15, 2^16, 2^31 or 2^32.
2^15 is 32768, so a mere 2415 isn't even close. If it was thirty thousand or more, I might start to get concerned. But hopefully Kmail has no buffer overflows.
(Buffer overflows are not a law of physics, they are a consequence of how the code is programmed.)
Which headers? Are you talking about person A's address showing up as the From address of person B's emails? Or some other header?
Yes, person A's (that is, Gene's) address shows up in the headers of somebody else altogether. When person B sends me an email (not a reply), I also get Gene's address in the headers.
Person B doesn't know Gene at all, doesn't know about TDE or the list, and knows hardly anything about computers, hence uses the rotten Apple and sometimes Windoze.
There is absolutely no other connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
There definitely seems to be something odd with your email headers. I've had a *very* brief look at a few, and:
- Fresh emails from you starting a new thread often contain an
In-Reply-To and Reference header. For instance, in one fresh email from you back in 2020, it included an In-Reply-To pointing to
201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.netwhich seems to be an email from 2018.
I did search for this email, and it seems not to exist at all; indeed, never existed, I believe, because I save *almost* everything, except spam and other crap like that.
- When you reply to an existing email, the Reference header refers to
somebody *other* than the person whose email you replied to.
So far as I can tell, this happens only with emails to person B, who doesn't know Gene at all, nor is a common member of any list or group; and now, it seems to happen in these emails to the TDE list.
I did some looking through other emails to the list, though, and it seems to be recent.
- And your emails have what look to me like corrupt header lines, such
as this one:
+h=from:reply-to:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-ver sion:content-type:message-id;
which nobody else seems to have (at least not in my brief investigation). The leading + sign is actually a space or newline.
I would like to buy a clue here, as I would like to believe that I send and receive emails the same as everybody else.
If there is anything amiss, then I would imagine that maybe it's because I've moved from KDE3 Kmail to TDE Kmail, and copied everything from one machine to another over about 15 years or so.
So something is not happy in your emails.
Unhappy emails, frustrated email user.
Bill
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 11:58:40PM -0700, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Which headers? Are you talking about person A's address showing up as the From address of person B's emails? Or some other header?
Yes, person A's (that is, Gene's) address shows up in the headers of somebody else altogether. When person B sends me an email (not a reply), I also get Gene's address in the headers.
Yes, but *which* header?
There is a huge difference between:
"Person B sends me a fresh email, but the From address says Gene"
and
"Person B replies to my email, and when I use Show Headers, I see that one of the In-Reply-To or Reference headers says Gene."
These are very different symptoms with probably very different causes and fixes.
Person B doesn't know Gene at all, doesn't know about TDE or the list, and knows hardly anything about computers, hence uses the rotten Apple and sometimes Windoze.
So you've said :-) but it's not really relevant unless it is a problem with their mail client. It probably isn't.
201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.netwhich seems to be an email from 2018.
I did search for this email, and it seems not to exist at all; indeed, never existed, I believe, because I save *almost* everything, except spam and other crap like that.
I don't know enough about how Kmail generates the In-Reply-To and Reference headers to comment.
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 03:49:47 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 11:58:40PM -0700, William Morder via tde-users
wrote:
Which headers? Are you talking about person A's address showing up as the From address of person B's emails? Or some other header?
Yes, person A's (that is, Gene's) address shows up in the headers of somebody else altogether. When person B sends me an email (not a reply), I also get Gene's address in the headers.
Yes, but *which* header?
There is a huge difference between:
"Person B sends me a fresh email, but the From address says Gene"
and
"Person B replies to my email, and when I use Show Headers, I see that one of the In-Reply-To or Reference headers says Gene."
These are very different symptoms with probably very different causes and fixes.
Person B doesn't know Gene at all, doesn't know about TDE or the list, and knows hardly anything about computers, hence uses the rotten Apple and sometimes Windoze.
So you've said :-) but it's not really relevant unless it is a problem with their mail client. It probably isn't.
201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.netwhich seems to be an email from 2018.
I did search for this email, and it seems not to exist at all; indeed, never existed, I believe, because I save *almost* everything, except spam and other crap like that.
I don't know enough about how Kmail generates the In-Reply-To and Reference headers to comment.
I think the In-Reply-To: and References: are two different critters. The In-Reply-to: is legit, but the References: seems to, as Bill noted, refer to our resubscribe date. I haven't a clue what or why that might be worth including in a reply-to-list/all. Boggles my getting tinier mind. Maybe I should up the B1 in my weekly pill-tainer? :)
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 01:11:43 Gene Heskett wrote:
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 03:49:47 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 11:58:40PM -0700, William Morder via tde-users
wrote:
Which headers? Are you talking about person A's address showing up as the From address of person B's emails? Or some other header?
Yes, person A's (that is, Gene's) address shows up in the headers of somebody else altogether. When person B sends me an email (not a reply), I also get Gene's address in the headers.
Yes, but *which* header?
There is a huge difference between:
"Person B sends me a fresh email, but the From address says Gene"
and
"Person B replies to my email, and when I use Show Headers, I see that one of the In-Reply-To or Reference headers says Gene."
These are very different symptoms with probably very different causes and fixes.
It is listed after References:
Oct 2021 22:16:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net 202110172038.05824.doctor_contendo@zoho.com In-Reply-To: 202110172038.05824.doctor_contendo@zoho.com
Then there follows from:
From: person B some_email@gmail.com Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 12:15:57 +0700 Message-ID:> >
You will note that I cut out person B's details. This is from the original email that got my attention, sent to me by person B (not a member of the list). Since then I have got some others, both from person B and when I send to and receive from the list.
I think the In-Reply-To: and References: are two different critters. The In-Reply-to: is legit, but the References: seems to, as Bill noted, refer to our resubscribe date. I haven't a clue what or why that might be worth including in a reply-to-list/all. Boggles my getting tinier mind. Maybe I should up the B1 in my weekly pill-tainer? :)
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
The fact that both Gene and I resubscribed on that date seems significant, though I don't see how it can relate to person B.
However ... sigh ... it occurs to me that person B has lived in several places, but is originally from India. And the TDE mailing has been getting spammed now and then by somebody that seems to be from India. Again, I am quite sure that she has better things to do, but maybe somebody linked her emails to me, and my emails to the TDE list?
Bill
Il 20/10/2021 10:45, William Morder via tde-users ha scritto:
I would use a brutal workaround. I would look for the configuration file that contains Person B's address. Something like: grep -Rl "text-to-find-here" /"directory.configuration.file.tde" By examining the found file, I would try to understand the problem.
Rodolfo
Am Mittwoch, 20. Oktober 2021 schrieb William Morder via tde-users:
"Person B replies to my email, and when I use Show Headers, I see that one of the In-Reply-To or Reference headers says Gene."
These are very different symptoms with probably very different causes and fixes.
It is listed after References:
Oct 2021 22:16:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net 202110172038.05824.doctor_contendo@zoho.com In-Reply-To: 202110172038.05824.doctor_contendo@zoho.com
If she replied to your message then the reference to person A still would originate from your system…
Cheers, Stefan
On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 05:33:01PM +1100, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
- And your emails have what look to me like corrupt header lines, such
as this one:
+h=from:reply-to:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:message-id;
On further investigation, I *think* that may be a normal part of the ARC system:
https://postmarkapp.com/blog/what-is-arc-or-authenticated-received-chain
so probably a red herring.
Further information on Bill's email issue. Here are two past emails from him:
Sent Sun, 25 Apr 2021 20:21:16 GMT Subject line is BINGO! 64-bit! Fresh email, not a reply to anything, but has:
References: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net In-Reply-To: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net
in the headers.
Sent Mon, 26 Jul 2021 20:57:34 GMT Subject line is wrong timestamp - OT Fresh email, not a reply to anything, but has:
References: 826b2aec-5d94-a8e7-625b-2c883295dcff@caramail.com 202107241035.47688.mb_trinity_desktop@inet-design.com a84c0d35-9569-74b8-bfef-380ab701b98f@caramail.com In-Reply-To: a84c0d35-9569-74b8-bfef-380ab701b98f@caramail.com
in the headers.
Normally I would diagnose this as the sender hitting "Reply" to an existing email, but Bill assures us that he doesn't do that.
The signs do appear to show that when Bill sends a fresh email, something in the chain:
Bill's mail client --> sending mail server (his ISP?) --> any intermediate systems --> mailing list --> any intermediate systems --> my mail server --> my mail client
is messing up the References and In-Reply-To header. I'm confident it is not either my mail server or client, and I would be shocked if it were the mailing list or the ISP.
On Tuesday 19 October 2021 23:02:34 Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue October 19 2021 18:41:17 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
There is a recurring glitch in my emails, which involves another person (person A) here on the mailing list. (I don't name him here, but I have already contacted him to ask about it.) It involves the mailing list, maybe, because I only know him from the list, and we have only exchanged a couple of personal emails outside the list.
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B) who is not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from her phone, the private email address of this first person (person A, a member of the list) showed up in her (person B's) email headers. There is absolutely no other connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
Hi William,
Your email quoted in part above contains the following headers:
References: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net In-Reply-To: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net
Either your KMail is really messed up or you sometimes start an email and then repurpose it. For example it looks like that email started as a reply to Gene and then you changed it to go to the list but it already had the references to Gene in it.
This could explain how references to person A got into your correspondence with person B.
--Mike
That is the weird thing. I created a brand-new template, just for the Trinity mailing list. To send this email, I created an entirely new email (to strip out any metadata), then just copied in the text, addresses, etc.
It did occur to me already that it might be a case of "repurposed" emails; but since I've already tried to eliminate that possibility, that seems not to be the case.
Let's see if this email ends up with Gene's address in the headers.
Bill
P.S. By the way, please call me Bill within the mailing list. I just get in the habit of using my full name on "public" or legal documents, but not in actual conversation.
On Tue October 19 2021 23:22:28 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
That is the weird thing. I created a brand-new template, just for the Trinity mailing list. To send this email, I created an entirely new email (to strip out any metadata), then just copied in the text, addresses, etc.
Might the extraneous headers be in your template(s)?
--Mike
On Tuesday 19 October 2021 23:48:09 Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue October 19 2021 23:22:28 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
That is the weird thing. I created a brand-new template, just for the Trinity mailing list. To send this email, I created an entirely new email (to strip out any metadata), then just copied in the text, addresses, etc.
Might the extraneous headers be in your template(s)?
--Mike
NO! I did check all this. Only after it gets sent, then Gene's address shows up in the headers.
Bill
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 02:48:09 Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue October 19 2021 23:22:28 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
That is the weird thing. I created a brand-new template, just for the Trinity mailing list. To send this email, I created an entirely new email (to strip out any metadata), then just copied in the text, addresses, etc.
Might the extraneous headers be in your template(s)?
--Mike
I don't think so, Mike. No customs are defined, and this is the reply to all/list its using right now: %REM="Default reply all template"%- On %ODATEEN %OTIMELONGEN %OFROMNAME wrote: %BLANK %QUOTE %BLANK %CURSOR
So I'm still clueless.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 03:58:52AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
I don't think so, Mike. No customs are defined, and this is the reply to all/list its using right now:
Gene, the problem is with Bill's emails, not you. There is no point in you search through your mail templates and configs, nothing on your computer could possibly be affecting the emails Bill sends out, or emails he receives from others.
Not unless you are running a mail server and Bill is sending mail through your server.
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 05:13:34 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 03:58:52AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
I don't think so, Mike. No customs are defined, and this is the reply to all/list its using right now:
Gene, the problem is with Bill's emails, not you. There is no point in you search through your mail templates and configs, nothing on your computer could possibly be affecting the emails Bill sends out, or emails he receives from others.
Not unless you are running a mail server and Bill is sending mail through your server.
Not guilty. :o)
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
Please note that Bill is replying to Mike Bird, not Gene.
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 11:22:28PM -0700, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 19 October 2021 23:02:34 Mike Bird wrote:
[...]
Hi William,
Your email quoted in part above contains the following headers:
References: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net In-Reply-To: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net
Let's see if this email ends up with Gene's address in the headers.
Bill
Yes, it has the same two lines as above.
References: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net In-Reply-To: 201802171815.09906.gheskett@shentel.net
It should not do this. The In-Reply-To header should refer to Mike's email, which has this id:
Message-Id: 202110192302.34221.mgb-trinity@yosemite.net
and the References should give a complete chain:
- the first email you sent in this thread; - Mike responded to that; - and you responded to Mike.
So in your response, there should be three references:
1. the mystery reference claiming to be from Gene (which should not be there, but since it was there, we must count it);
2. the email ID of your first email starting this thread;
3. the email ID of Mike's response.
Instead, only number 1 (the mystery reference) is there. That's not right! At the very least, the In-Reply-To should be set to Mike's email, not the mystery Gene email.
Bill, it would be good to eliminate some possible suspects, starting with the mailing list software.
If you agree, can you please create a new, blank email, using whatever template you would normally use, and send it *directly* to me at:
steve at pearwood dot info
Then, if possible, create a second blank email, using *no template* at all, and send it to me again using the same address.
That will let me see:
- if we eliminate the mailing list, does the problem remain?
- are your email headers okay if you send directly?
- does the template make a difference?
Do you have another way of sending email? Thunderbird, or mutt, perhaps? If you do, you can send me a third email using the different client, and see if the header issues go away.
Hopefully we can find the problem by a process of elimination. In the words of Sherlock Holmes, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
Unless you're talking about computers, in which case the only way to solve some problems is to Reboot, Reinstall, Resign.
Bingo. Maybe not the solution, but it's gotta be connected somehow, I believe.
On 20180217, both Gene Heskett and myself unsubscribed then resubscribed to the mailing list.
If I recall aright, Gene was having problems, and I was having some kind of problem sending or receiving to the list myself, so I decided that I would resubscribe, as well.
The time doesn't match any of those emails, but both these events occurred on the same day.
This doesn't explain the emails to and from person B, who isn't a member of the list. I checked my correspondence with her, and there were no emails on that date.
Does this make sense to anybody out there? I can see the correlation, but no actual causal relationship among any of the parties involved.
Bill
On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 12:32:26AM -0700, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Bingo. Maybe not the solution, but it's gotta be connected somehow, I believe.
On 20180217, both Gene Heskett and myself unsubscribed then resubscribed to the mailing list.
There may be a connection, but it doesn't explain the other broken crud in your email headers, or the fact that some of your past replies have the wrong references.
(I will see if I can dig up an example.)
Dne st 20. října 2021 William Morder via tde-users napsal(a):
Bingo. Maybe not the solution, but it's gotta be connected somehow, I believe.
On 20180217, both Gene Heskett and myself unsubscribed then resubscribed to the mailing list.
If I recall aright, Gene was having problems, and I was having some kind of problem sending or receiving to the list myself, so I decided that I would resubscribe, as well.
The time doesn't match any of those emails, but both these events occurred on the same day.
This doesn't explain the emails to and from person B, who isn't a member of the list. I checked my correspondence with her, and there were no emails on that date.
Does this make sense to anybody out there? I can see the correlation, but no actual causal relationship among any of the parties involved.
Bill
Bill,
please can you send a completely newly created message to my private address to see if there will still be the headers referring to an unrelated old message?
Thanks
I fell asleep after not receiving any replies for awhile. When I got up in the middle of the night, I sent out a couple of test emails to Slavek and Steve, but haven't heard anything else. I did view source for those emails, and they seem not to contain the bothersome lines referring to Gene's email address.
Likewise I checked a few other emails that I had sent and received (other persons, not part of the TDE list, nor person B that I mentioned previously); these emails also did not contain those lines referring to Gene's address.
Also, this evidently started fairly recently, as earlier emails to these persons and the TDE list *do not* contain the reference to Gene's address. I haven't yet narrowed it down to exact dates, but it seems to be recent.
So far I am left to guess that the connection, if any, is limited to myself, Gene, person B, and the TDE mailing list.
Now then, Dr Watson, what do you make of it? And please keep in mind that Sherlock Holmes was not so thoroughly scientific as his latter-day followers would like to pretend. We must do better.
Bill
Bill
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dep -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp
-
E. Liddell -
E. Liddell
-
E. Liddell -
Echedey Lopez Romero -
Edward -
Felix Miata -
Felix Miata -
Gene Heskett -
Gianluca Interlandi -
Gianluca Interlandi
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greg
-
Greg Madden -
J Leslie Turriff -
J Leslie Turriff
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Jimmy Johnson -
John Pisini -
Kate Draven
-
Leonard T Harris -
Michael -
Michael
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Michael Howard via trinity-users -
Michele Calgaro -
Mike Bird -
Nick Koretsky -
Pisini, John
-
relosrl -
Robert Peters -
Slávek Banko -
Stefan Krusche -
Steven D'Aprano -
Thierry de Coulon -
William Morder -
William Morder via trinity-users
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William Morder via trinity-users
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