17 Feb
2018
17 Feb
'18
11:15 p.m.
Last post ack the list archives was in August 2017, after which the list
was silent, and my msgs were apparently routed to /dev/null. But I
didn't unsubscribe.
My ISP has been known to block/bounce but pearsoncomputing.net was in
their "whitelist", I put it there yonks ago.
Anyway, I'm glad to be back.
--
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
18 Feb
18 Feb
12:19 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] I just resubscribed, but the 64$ question is how did I get removed?
Hi Gene!
Was already missing you. Did you get unsubscribed on the linuxcnc list, too?
Nik
Am Sonntag, 18. Februar 2018 schrieb Gene Heskett:
Last post ack the list archives was in August 2017,
after which the list
was silent, and my msgs were apparently routed to /dev/null. But I
didn't unsubscribe.
My ISP has been known to block/bounce but pearsoncomputing.net was in
their "whitelist", I put it there yonks ago.
Anyway, I'm glad to be back.
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
10:25 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] I just resubscribed, but the 64$ question is how did I get removed?
On Sunday 18 February 2018 07:19:36 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Hi Gene!
Was already missing you. Did you get unsubscribed on the linuxcnc
list, too?
Nik
No Nik. its been ticking right along here.
Am Sonntag, 18. Februar 2018 schrieb Gene Heskett:
> Last post ack the list archives was in August 2017, after which the
> list was silent, and my msgs were apparently routed to /dev/null.
> But I didn't unsubscribe.
>
> My ISP has been known to block/bounce but pearsoncomputing.net was
> in their "whitelist", I put it there yonks ago.
>
> Anyway, I'm glad to be back.
--
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
12:53 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] I just resubscribed, but the 64$ question is how did I get removed?
On Saturday 17 February 2018 15:15:09 Gene Heskett wrote:
Last post ack the list archives was in August 2017,
after which the list
was silent, and my msgs were apparently routed to /dev/null. But I
didn't unsubscribe.
My ISP has been known to block/bounce but pearsoncomputing.net was in
their "whitelist", I put it there yonks ago.
Anyway, I'm glad to be back.
Hello, all!
Gmail has somehow managed to unsubscribe me twice, and I have had to
resubscribe. Gmail also gives me grief in a lot of other ways, and marks one
of the subscribers (Klepp, I believe?) as spam, even after I have whitelisted
his address countless times. It might be his .biz address.
I just resubscribed using zoho.com as my email. I am currently
collecting several new email addresses to use as throwaways, but zoho works
pretty well. I hear good things about Yandex, too. If anybody else has
suggestions for good free email accounts (that are also secure, and
reasonably private), I would be glad to hear about them.
I have a few comments to make about installing and running Trinity (general
and specific), but I will post these separately. I've been a mostly silent
subscriber to the mailing list almost since the Trinity project was started,
or when they tried to kill KDE3 ... since maybe 2008, maybe earlier.
Bill
10:27 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] I just resubscribed, but the 64$ question is how did I get removed?
On Sunday 18 February 2018 07:53:34 William Morder wrote:
On Saturday 17 February 2018 15:15:09 Gene Heskett
wrote:
gmail, AFAIK is not in this pool.
Last post ack the list archives was in August
2017, after which the
list was silent, and my msgs were apparently routed to /dev/null.
But I didn't unsubscribe.
My ISP has been known to block/bounce but pearsoncomputing.net was
in their "whitelist", I put it there yonks ago.
Anyway, I'm glad to be back.
Hello, all!
Gmail has somehow managed to unsubscribe me twice, and I have had to
resubscribe. Gmail also gives me grief in a lot of other ways, and
marks one of the subscribers (Klepp, I believe?) as spam, even after I
have whitelisted his address countless times. It might be his .biz
address.
I just resubscribed using zoho.com as my email. I am
currently
collecting several new email addresses to use as throwaways, but zoho
works pretty well. I hear good things about Yandex, too. If anybody
else has suggestions for good free email accounts (that are also
secure, and reasonably private), I would be glad to hear about them.
This is the account at my ISP, shentel.net.
I have a few comments to make about installing and
running Trinity
(general and specific), but I will post these separately. I've been a
mostly silent subscriber to the mailing list almost since the Trinity
project was started, or when they tried to kill KDE3 ... since maybe
2008, maybe earlier.
Yeah. that was surely a bad dog, no bisquit scene.
Bill
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read
list messages on the web archive:
http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to
top-post:
http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
--
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
1:41 p.m.
New subject: tips on getting TDE to run smoothly
I've been trying out TDE off and on since the project started; ever since they
killed KDE3, and I looked around for something as usable and practical as the
KDE3x desktop (which I first used on PC Linux, and later on Ubuntu Hardy
8.04).
When trying to install over various 'buntus (mostly Ubuntu, Kubuntu or
Lubuntu), I always ran into problems, and always was forced to abandon TDE. I
kept a running copy of Hardy 8.04 on a separate partition, just so I could
get work done, but it kept getting more and more outdated, and seriously
insecure; yet none of the alternatives were working. Finally Hardy 8.04
ceased to be functional or practical, and I was forced to do something new
and different, so I resolved to learn how properly to install and configure a
Debian system with TDE, and am glad to report nearly complete success, with
only a few nagging bugs, most of which are fairly small.
My big breakthrough came when I realized that even after I had installed TDE,
and no longer ran the newer versions of KDE4/5 (whatever) or Gnome, that my
newer KDE settings were somehow "bleeding over" into my TDE desktop
environment. (I mean, for example, colors, and various other configurations,
in Firefox, soundKonverter, Mousepad, and lots of other programs; these use
the KDE settings, and look like the KDE4/5 desktop, whereas other programs
have a TDE appearance, even when they are not programs specific to KDE4/5.) I
believe that this has something to do with TDE's use of that /opt folder,
since it is installed to ride piggyback, as it were, on top of another
system, and has yet to be released as its own stand-alone system. (I've tried
the TDE installation discs for Kubuntu 10.04, 12.04, 14.04, as well as
Devuan, Q4OS, exeGNU, and maybe three or four others; and had those same
problems, where the system eventually became unusuable, and I was forced to
abandon it.)
What I did seems a little counterintuitive, but it might help others. Then
again, it might seem obvious to many of the readers out there, but perhaps it
will help some users, at least the n00bs. And maybe others will have their
own observations to add to this thread.
I installed Debian Jessie 8.8.0 with the latest KDE desktop, and did not
bother at all with TDE for at least a month or two. Instead, I went through
all my settings for KDE, and tweaked and reconfigured obsessively, until I
got KDE to run fairly smoothly. I disabled all the unnecessary bells &
whistles in KDE that hog the CPU; I went into window-specific settings, and
forced "focus stealing prevention" (set for "extreme" in most cases).
I
disabled my network managers (wicd, et al.) from connecting automatically;
and so on, and so on. There are a million little tweaks and configurations
and refinements I could list, but maybe I will start separate threads for as
many of them as I can remember, and others can add their own.
Sorry to run on, and risk making this into an epic tale; but the short version
is: Only after I had got KDE running as well as can be expected (from such
piece of crap), then I enabled the Trinity repositories, and installed the
TDE desktop; and, voila! presto! TDE works almost without a hitch, the same
desktop pretty much that I have used, which keeps all my work organized and
accessible, and allows me to be in control of my own system - the only
desktop I've ever loved.
In other words, it was the KDE desktop environment, and the default settings
therein, which were interfering with the smooth operation of TDE. It seems to
me that TDE is pretty much ready for release into the standard repositories;
although my brief bit of research has discovered that a lot entities out
there want to block its inclusion in the repositories.
So I am wondering: Is there is some way that TDE can get into the regular
repositories (Debian, Ubuntu, etc.)? or if a dependable stand-alone
installation disc image can be developed (which does not ride on top of
another desktop like Gnome or KDE4/5)? Then we could get out of that /opt
folder, and my hunch is that everything would run better.
It seems to me that TDE is nearly ready for release; and if not, it ought to
be released through the Trinity repositories. (I mean, not as separate
packages, but as its own installation disc.) T
Bill
22 Feb
22 Feb
12:59 a.m.
New subject: how to enable mouse keys by default or command-line?
I have one of those minor bugs that annoys me, and I put it off while I was
tracking down other bigger problems. But I tend to use mouse keys (on the num
pad) a lot. However, at least once an hour or so, they just stop working, and
I have to go into the Trinity Control Center dialogue and set them again.
ALT-F12 enables them, but then the settings aren't mine; the cursors moves
slower, and my click keys don't work. Also, many times when this happens my
keyboard will also stop working, so I have to go to enable to mouse keys with
only the mouse itself working.
I feel like there is probably a configuration file hidden somewhere, or an
easy command that would enable them quicker than what I have to do now. On
the old KDE3, too, this was somewhat of a problem, but only when I first
booted. Then I would enable the mouse keys, and they would be stable for the
rest of the session. This is much more buggy.
By the way, I am using an old Apple mouse, model #A1152, and I run Debian
Jessie 8.8.x with TDE.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Bill
1:49 p.m.
New subject: how to enable mouse keys by default or command-line? w/ *addendum*
I have one of those minor bugs that annoys me, and I put it off while I was
tracking down other bigger problems. But I tend to use mouse keys (on the num
pad) a lot. However, at least once an hour or so, they just stop working, and
I have to go into the Trinity Control Center dialogue and set them again.
ALT-F12 enables them, but then the settings aren't mine; the cursors moves
slower, and my click keys don't work. Also, many times when this happens my
keyboard will also stop working, so I have to go to enable to mouse keys with
only the mouse itself working.
I feel like there is probably a configuration file hidden somewhere, or an
easy command that would enable them quicker than what I have to do now. On
the old KDE3, too, this was somewhat of a problem, but only when I first
booted. Then I would enable the mouse keys, and they would be stable for the
rest of the session. This is much more buggy.
By the way, I am using an old Apple mouse, model #A1152, and I run Debian
Jessie 8.8.x with TDE.
*****addendum
Oooops. It occurred to me after I sent it that the keyboard would be more
appropriate info. Sorry, I was falling asleep when I wrote that.
It's an HP keyboard #KU1060, but manufactured by Chicony. (This keyboard
doesn't appear in TDE's list of supported keyboards, nor any that are close
to it. Online research has yielded bugger all.)
This is for use on my desktop computer, which is a Frankenstein of new parts
and motherboard, and sata hdds, inside a big old metal case from about the
80s.
*****
Thanks for any suggestions.
Bill
18 Mar
18 Mar
12:13 a.m.
New subject: quick & dirty - installation & backup
First of all, I don't do all that wimpy stuff about using a nano or gedit or
what-not for editing my sources.list. I mean, that sounds responsible and
orderly (and good boy scouts always follow the rules), but in the long run
there are quicker ways.
I gradually figure out what works, so my progress is slow but incremental at
first; but after a few reinstallations, I get everything running as I want.
So instead of discarding what I ought to have learned by trial and error, I
save myself a lot of trouble in the long run by following these methods.
I backup my sources.list like so:
sudo
cp -r -v -f /etc/apt/sources.list -t
/media/<WHEREVER>/sources/jessie/sources.list-orig
and change permissions so that I can edit my sources.list without being root.
Then I open up sources.list-orig with whatever text editor (I prefer leafpad),
making sure to save it as sources.list and not sources.list-orig. When I'm
done, I copy it back to where it belongs like so:
sudo cp -r -v -f /media/<WHEREVER>/sources/jessie/sources.list -t /etc/apt/
and run sudo apt-get update.
After I have downloaded and installed pkgs, I take the precaution of saving
them all to an external drive somewhere, and sort everything into folders (so
that everything tde-trinity has its own folder):
sudo
mv -v -f /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb -t
/media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/
and then I change permissions:
sudo chmod -R 700 /media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/ | sudo chown -R
<MYSELF> /media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/ | sudo chgrp -R
<MYSELF> /media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/
(changing <WHEREVER> and <MYSELF>, of course, to whatever is appropriate for
your situation.
Then when I need to reinstall stuff, I have already sorted out what works for
my system, so I just do:
sudo dpkg -i -E -G /media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/*.deb
and install everything Trinity and TDE in a couple minutes, rather than
waiting literally days for stuff to download. And then I run
sudo apt-get -f install to correct any missing dependencies.
For me, this is much faster and more reliable. Every so often I run
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
and then also move these packages into my folder on a separate drive.
To reinstall my entire system as it is, by downloading packages from the
repositories, would take at least a week. If I always waited for packages to
download, this would be about the year 2060. Once I have figured out what
works, I don't keep trying again and again to solve the same problems. I did
try using aptoncd to create discs, but it seems that I need much more space
in my root partition to use for temporary files; it worked nicely on older
systems. And anyway, sooner or later I will upgrade to something else like
Stretch, or switch to Devuan, or both, and then I won't need my old packages,
so all I need to do is delete that folder, and change my commands to point to
the appropriate places.
I would be curious to know what are other people's methods. I've heard about
some net installations already.
Bill
12:02 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
I would be curious to know what are other people's
methods. I've heard about
some net installations already.
Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do that much
work to reinstall the software on an existing system! I'd just issue something like
"emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go to bed, and expect 98% of
everything to be resolved when I got back up in the morning. A Gentoo machine
is always easier to recover than to restart from scratch (and yes, it's possible to
switch out major parts of the infrastructure, like openrc <=> systemd and
udev <=> eudev, without hosing everything or even having to reinstall any package
that doesn't depend directly on the changed one).
I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017), despite a major
hardware refresh about midway through that period, and *never* had to start over
from scratch. And the only reason I didn't just image the old root partition onto a
new drive when I set up my current machine over Christmas was that I figured it was
time to get rid of all the leftover cruft from more than a decade of rolling updates.
E. Liddell
12:24 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:02:19 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Ah, but you are an actual geek, and you like this stuff. And I did say that my
method was dirty. The only reason I use computers at all is because I must; I
build my own computers out of parts because I can't afford to buy anything;
and I try to stick with GNU/Linux so that I can be sure that I really own my
own computers.
I've only been running Linux since about 2006, and mostly Kubuntu. Only in
April of 2017 did I attempt Debian. Once I get a system more or less stable,
I almost never need to do a full reinstallation. But then, I have pretty much
taught myself, with the help of some Linux books, and researching the forums.
And I only know one person in the real world (not online) who can actually
offer guidance. Otherwise, most people think I am a computer freak, which I
am not.
If I ruled the world, we would all go back to horses and carts, or at least
bicycles. I still say that this computer nonsense is just a passing fad, and
sooner or later people will wake up.
In the meanwhile, this is what I have to do to keep my computer running. I
like what you say, and am always willing to bow before superior knowledge. If
I could learn how to use your method on a Debian system, that would be great.
If you can point me in the right direction, I am all ears.
Bill
I would be curious to know what are other
people's methods. I've heard
about some net installations already.
Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do that much
work to reinstall the software on an existing system! I'd just issue
something like "emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go to bed, and
expect 98% of everything to be resolved when I got back up in the morning.
A Gentoo machine is always easier to recover than to restart from scratch
(and yes, it's possible to switch out major parts of the infrastructure,
like openrc <=> systemd and udev <=> eudev, without hosing everything or
even having to reinstall any package that doesn't depend directly on the
changed one).
I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017), despite a
major hardware refresh about midway through that period, and *never* had to
start over from scratch. And the only reason I didn't just image the old
root partition onto a new drive when I set up my current machine over
Christmas was that I figured it was time to get rid of all the leftover
cruft from more than a decade of rolling updates.
E. Liddell
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1:09 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:24:01 William Morder wrote:
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:02:19 E. Liddell wrote:
Ah, but you are an actual geek, and you like this stuff. And I did say that
my method was dirty. The only reason I use computers at all is because I
must; I build my own computers out of parts because I can't afford to buy
anything; and I try to stick with GNU/Linux so that I can be sure that I
really own my own computers.
I've only been running Linux since about 2006, and mostly Kubuntu. Only in
April of 2017 did I attempt Debian. Once I get a system more or less
stable, I almost never need to do a full reinstallation. But then, I have
pretty much taught myself, with the help of some Linux books, and
researching the forums. And I only know one person in the real world (not
online) who can actually offer guidance. Otherwise, most people think I am
a computer freak, which I am not.
If I ruled the world, we would all go back to horses and carts, or at least
bicycles. I still say that this computer nonsense is just a passing fad,
and sooner or later people will wake up.
In the meanwhile, this is what I have to do to keep my computer running. I
like what you say, and am always willing to bow before superior knowledge.
If I could learn how to use your method on a Debian system, that would be
great.
If you can point me in the right direction, I am all ears.
Bill
P.S. How would you go about maintaining your computers if you sometimes are
forced to go for months at a stretch without an Internet connection? Right
now I have a fast, reasonably stable connection, but it hasn't always been
that way. I started saving packages to reinstall by dpkg so that I could keep
my system running even when I am offline.
I used to go to the library with my laptop, to use their connection; but then
I would download and save packages to be used in my desktop computer at home,
where there was no Internet. If there is a better strategy for survival in
those circumstances, I would love to hear it.
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
I would be curious to know what are other
people's methods. I've heard
about some net installations already.
Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do that
much work to reinstall the software on an existing system! I'd just
issue something like "emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go to bed,
and expect 98% of everything to be resolved when I got back up in the
morning. A Gentoo machine is always easier to recover than to restart
from scratch (and yes, it's possible to switch out major parts of the
infrastructure, like openrc <=> systemd and udev <=> eudev, without
hosing everything or even having to reinstall any package that doesn't
depend directly on the changed one).
I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017), despite a
major hardware refresh about midway through that period, and *never* had
to start over from scratch. And the only reason I didn't just image the
old root partition onto a new drive when I set up my current machine over
Christmas was that I figured it was time to get rid of all the leftover
cruft from more than a decade of rolling updates.
E. Liddell
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Please remember not to top-post:
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19 Mar
19 Mar
11:44 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 06:09:53 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:24:01 William Morder wrote:
Guilty. ;)
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:02:19 E. Liddell
wrote:
Ah, but you are an actual geek, and you like this stuff. On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
I would be curious to know what are other
people's methods. I've heard
about some net installations already.
Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do that
much work to reinstall the software on an existing system! I'd just
issue something like "emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go to bed,
and expect 98% of everything to be resolved when I got back up in the
morning. A Gentoo machine is always easier to recover than to restart
from scratch (and yes, it's possible to switch out major parts of the
infrastructure, like openrc <=> systemd and udev <=> eudev, without
hosing everything or even having to reinstall any package that doesn't
depend directly on the changed one).
I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017), despite a
major hardware refresh about midway through that period, and *never* had
to start over from scratch. And the only reason I didn't just image the
old root partition onto a new drive when I set up my current machine over
Christmas was that I figured it was time to get rid of all the leftover
cruft from more than a decade of rolling updates.
E. Liddell And I did say that
my method was dirty. The only reason I use computers at all is because I
must; I build my own computers out of parts because I can't afford to buy
anything; and I try to stick with GNU/Linux so that I can be sure that I
really own my own computers.
I've only been running Linux since about 2006, and mostly Kubuntu. Only in
April of 2017 did I attempt Debian. Once I get a system more or less
stable, I almost never need to do a full reinstallation. But then, I have
pretty much taught myself, with the help of some Linux books, and
researching the forums. And I only know one person in the real world (not
online) who can actually offer guidance. Otherwise, most people think I am
a computer freak, which I am not.
If I ruled the world, we would all go back to horses and carts, or at least
bicycles. I still say that this computer nonsense is just a passing fad,
and sooner or later people will wake up.
In the meanwhile, this is what I have to do to keep my computer running. I
like what you say, and am always willing to bow before superior knowledge.
If I could learn how to use your method on a Debian system, that would be
great.
If you can point me in the right direction, I am all ears.
Unfortunately, how I get away with what I do is kind of rooted in the way
Gentoo's package manager works and how Gentoo, as a distro, differs from
Debian (and they're just about as different as can be--Gentoo is a rolling-release
source-based distro that expects you to be at home with a command line and
lacks a graphical install tool).
A limited version of the same thing should be possible with any rolling-release
distro, but I'm not familiar with any Debian-based ones.
P.S. How would you go about maintaining your computers
if you sometimes are
forced to go for months at a stretch without an Internet connection? Right
now I have a fast, reasonably stable connection, but it hasn't always been
that way. I started saving packages to reinstall by dpkg so that I could keep
my system running even when I am offline.
I used to go to the library with my laptop, to use their connection; but then
I would download and save packages to be used in my desktop computer at home,
where there was no Internet. If there is a better strategy for survival in
those circumstances, I would love to hear it.
I don't think there's any easy way to deal with that problem, unfortunately.
Among
the things I'd probably end up doing would be poking through the old distro-specific
software intended to minimize bandwidth use for dial-up users back in the day.
That, and manually pulling down certain types of files using a download manager
if the package manager couldn't handle things on its own. That assumes that I would
have *some* kind of connection, just not a fast or stable one, though--dial-up
modem, tethered phone, whatever. I've been doing this juuuust long enough to
remember how not-fun trying to update over dial-up was.
Gentoo's package manager keeps the files needed for a (re-)install of any package
unless you purge them manually, and copying them around to multiple machines isn't
a problem. You can also fetch packages without installing if you pass the right flag.
The idea of having to explicitly set the system to keep stuff was part of what made
me boggle.
E. Liddell
20 Mar
20 Mar
1:22 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
On Monday 19 March 2018 16:44:34 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 06:09:53 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
If I can ever find a publisher to give me enough money to live in the regal
style that deserve (and if I should live long enough to complete the Great
Work, and if they are still actually publishing books written by human beings
at that time), then maybe I can afford my very only reliable Internet
connection, and I would be glad to try out Gentoo.
Gentoo is only vaguely on my radar, but I do like to try out new things. One
reason I usually create a root partition of 30 gb or so is that I like to
download and try out lots of new stuff; but then I also get rid of whatever
isn't really useful, or which only duplicates the functions of another
program.
When I have a reliable Internet connection, this isn't a problem; but right
now I don't own my connection (and the wifi password would be absurdly easy
for a child to crack). When my Internet is non-existent, I take my laptop to
the library and download packages, copy them to an external hdd, then bring
them home and install them on my desktop.
Thanks for caring, though.
Bill
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:24:01 William Morder
wrote:
Guilty. ;)
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:02:19 E. Liddell
wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700
>
> William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
> > I would be curious to know what are other people's methods. I've
> > heard about some net installations already.
>
> Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do
> that much work to reinstall the software on an existing system! I'd
> just issue something like "emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go
> to bed, and expect 98% of everything to be resolved when I got back
> up in the morning. A Gentoo machine is always easier to recover than
> to restart from scratch (and yes, it's possible to switch out major
> parts of the infrastructure, like openrc <=> systemd and udev <=>
> eudev, without hosing everything or even having to reinstall any
> package that doesn't depend directly on the changed one).
>
> I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017),
> despite a major hardware refresh about midway through that period,
> and *never* had to start over from scratch. And the only reason I
> didn't just image the old root partition onto a new drive when I set
> up my current machine over Christmas was that I figured it was time
> to get rid of all the leftover cruft from more than a decade of
> rolling updates.
>
> E. Liddell
Ah, but you are an actual geek, and you like this stuff. And I did say that
my method was dirty. The only reason I use computers at all is because I
must; I build my own computers out of parts because I can't afford to buy
anything; and I try to stick with GNU/Linux so that I can be sure that I
really own my own computers.
I've only been running Linux since about 2006, and mostly Kubuntu. Only
in April of 2017 did I attempt Debian. Once I get a system more or less
stable, I almost never need to do a full reinstallation. But then, I have
pretty much taught myself, with the help of some Linux books, and
researching the forums. And I only know one person in the real world (not
online) who can actually offer guidance. Otherwise, most people think I
am a computer freak, which I am not.
If I ruled the world, we would all go back to horses and carts, or at
least bicycles. I still say that this computer nonsense is just a passing
fad, and sooner or later people will wake up.
In the meanwhile, this is what I have to do to keep my computer running.
I like what you say, and am always willing to bow before superior
knowledge. If I could learn how to use your method on a Debian system,
that would be great.
If you can point me in the right direction, I am all ears.
Unfortunately, how I get away with what I do is kind of rooted in the way
Gentoo's package manager works and how Gentoo, as a distro, differs from
Debian (and they're just about as different as can be--Gentoo is a
rolling-release source-based distro that expects you to be at home with a
command line and lacks a graphical install tool).
A limited version of the same thing should be possible with any
rolling-release distro, but I'm not familiar with any Debian-based ones.
P.S. How would you go about maintaining your
computers if you sometimes
are forced to go for months at a stretch without an Internet connection?
Right now I have a fast, reasonably stable connection, but it hasn't
always been that way. I started saving packages to reinstall by dpkg so
that I could keep my system running even when I am offline.
I used to go to the library with my laptop, to use their connection; but
then I would download and save packages to be used in my desktop computer
at home, where there was no Internet. If there is a better strategy for
survival in those circumstances, I would love to hear it.
I don't think there's any easy way to deal with that problem,
unfortunately. Among the things I'd probably end up doing would be poking
through the old distro-specific software intended to minimize bandwidth use
for dial-up users back in the day. That, and manually pulling down certain
types of files using a download manager if the package manager couldn't
handle things on its own. That assumes that I would have *some* kind of
connection, just not a fast or stable one, though--dial-up modem, tethered
phone, whatever. I've been doing this juuuust long enough to remember how
not-fun trying to update over dial-up was.
Gentoo's package manager keeps the files needed for a (re-)install of any
package unless you purge them manually, and copying them around to multiple
machines isn't a problem. You can also fetch packages without installing
if you pass the right flag. The idea of having to explicitly set the system
to keep stuff was part of what made me boggle.
E. Liddell
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12:28 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:22:51 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
If I can ever find a publisher to give me enough money
to live in the regal
style that deserve (and if I should live long enough to complete the Great
Work, and if they are still actually publishing books written by human beings
at that time), then maybe I can afford my very only reliable Internet
connection, and I would be glad to try out Gentoo.
Your techie friend would probably look at you funny if you suggested installing
it, anyway. There's an old humour piece about operating systems as airlines
that you can find kicking around the internet, and the Linux segment includes
something along the lines of, "Upon boarding the plane, you're handed an
uninstalled seat, a handful of bolts, a wrench, and a copy of seat-HOWTO.
Once you get it installed, the adjustable seat is very comfortable, the plane
takes off and lands on time, and the in-flight meal is just perfect, but whenever
you try to discuss the experience with someone, all they ever say is, 'You had
to do *what* to the seat?!'"
Gentoo is very much a "You had to do *what* to the seat?!" distro. The
install process is command-line oriented and hands-on, installing a new
package can take some time because it (usually) needs to be compiled, and
you're expected to put in a bit of work in terms of untangling your own messes
with the aid of the (usually pretty good) documentation. In return, it offers a
knowledgeable community, complete control of every optional dependency
on the system, and programs that run slightly faster and install less cruft
because they're tailored for your machine and not some generic abstraction.
I like it, but then I code for a living, I'm a control freak, and I'm willing to
put
in a little more time when I have to (to avoid having to put in a lot more time
down the road).
E. Liddell
1:06 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 05:28:57 E. Liddell wrote:
Nah, I think he would know Gentoo. He compiles everything from source.
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:22:51 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
> If I can ever find a publisher to give me enough money to live in the
> regal style that deserve (and if I should live long enough to complete
> the Great Work, and if they are still actually publishing books written
> by human beings at that time), then maybe I can afford my very only
should be
<own> not <only>, sorry!
reliable
Internet connection, and I would be glad to try out Gentoo.
Your techie friend would probably look at you funny if you suggested
installing it, anyway. There's an old humour piece about operating
systems
as airlines that you can find kicking around the internet, and the Linux
segment includes something along the lines of, "Upon boarding the plane,
you're handed an uninstalled seat, a handful of bolts, a wrench, and a copy
of seat-HOWTO. Once you get it installed, the adjustable seat is very
comfortable, the plane takes off and lands on time, and the in-flight meal
is just perfect, but whenever you try to discuss the experience with
someone, all they ever say is, 'You had to do *what* to the seat?!'"
You forgot the process about tanning hides to make own custom seat leather.
Gentoo is very much a "You had to do *what* to
the seat?!" distro. The
install process is command-line oriented and hands-on, installing a new
package can take some time because it (usually) needs to be compiled, and
you're expected to put in a bit of work in terms of untangling your own
messes with the aid of the (usually pretty good) documentation. In return,
it offers a knowledgeable community, complete control of every optional
dependency on the system, and programs that run slightly faster and install
less cruft because they're tailored for your machine and not some generic
abstraction.
That sounds tantalizingly seductive, but one also must set limits. I don't
code for a living, but use my computer for writing and editing (as well as
layout for books, etc.), as well as sometimes for producing my own music.
I like it, but then I code for a living, I'm a
control freak, and I'm
willing to put in a little more time when I have to (to avoid having to put
in a lot more time down the road).
E. Liddell
I like Gentoo already, just because it is so perversely arcane. I don't so
much like computers, or (modern) machines in general (noting that a wagon
might be considered a machine, and certainly a bicycle). However, I do rather
enjoy the aspects of hidden mysteries, deciphering codes, and an underground
brotherhood (and sisterhood) - complete with secret handshakes and alternate
identities.
More than that, I really just like to feel like I own my own computer, that I
can, through my own efforts, come to control it, and that I am allowed to
take apart both hardware and software and put it back together in ways that
the original designers never intended; and thereby either improve it, or
totally mess it up beyond all hope of recovery, with nothing left but to
start over with what I like to call The Long Dark System Reinstallation of
the Soul.
The problem with freedom is that it never comes free, nor even cheap. If you
want it, you have to work at it. And I'm not so much a political activist
(though some seem to think so based on the fact that I sometimes write
eccentric pieces that happen to trespass into politics and social issues);
but I do want to feel that my computer, and everything in it, is all mine,
and controlled by me. Thus I expect that it won't always be easy to attain
such concrete goals; which, paradoxically, are regarded by a lot of people as
some kind of arty-farty aesthetic ideal. I would love to give in
to "convention", and have everything come easy; but I get older and crankier,
and cannot force myself to fit into prefabricated ways of doing anything.
When I try to explain to "outsiders" the varying degrees of Unix, Linux (and
variants like BSD), then Redhat, Debian - as well the true, pure faith of
GNU/Linux, and all that - I invariably take a shortcut and say simply that
Linux is not so much a kind of operating system as a lifestyle, or a mystic
cult.
Again, it is like a musician friend of mine (who was always broke) tried to
explain blues and jazz music: they are not music forms, or genres, but rather
a way of life.
If I can't own my own computer, and make it run like I want, then I will run
no computer at all. I will crawl back under my rock, and wait until the times
change.
Bill
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1:40 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
Am Dienstag, 20. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
When I try to explain to "outsiders" the
varying degrees of Unix, Linux (and
variants like BSD), then Redhat, Debian - as well the true, pure faith of
GNU/Linux, and all that - I invariably take a shortcut and say simply that
Linux is not so much a kind of operating system as a lifestyle, or a mystic
cult.
LOL ... my accountant thinks it's about religion when he hears some talk
about linux :-)
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
1:45 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 06:40:20 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Dienstag, 20. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Like a joke (or maybe like Zen): you either get it, or you don't. If you don't
get the point, no amount of explanation can make it more understandable. If
you do get the point, then a little explanation can open up new worlds that
you never even knew existed before.
Bill
When I try to explain to "outsiders"
the varying degrees of Unix, Linux
(and variants like BSD), then Redhat, Debian - as well the true, pure
faith of GNU/Linux, and all that - I invariably take a shortcut and say
simply that Linux is not so much a kind of operating system as a
lifestyle, or a mystic cult.
LOL ... my accountant thinks it's about religion when he hears some talk
about linux :-)
19 Mar
19 Mar
12:10 p.m.
New subject: my vanishing root partition
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root partition keep
disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme to
something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp
folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I have to
go through these steps manually, again and again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by command-line,
anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> And the first time I
did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my system (some months ago), I
have the same problem again, and nothing works to fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating space on
my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this kept
shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf tells me that
I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a fresh reboot);
this, I predict - based on past experience - will gradually shrink down to 0
over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with gparted,
slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to wiggle. I used to
allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but then I thought, hey, I've
got my system pretty well set up, and won't be downloading much of anything
new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning out extraneous unnecessary crap.
The newer distros, though, use up more and more space on the root partition,
just because they can; due to the fact that hard drives are getting bigger
and cheaper - even though not all of us can afford to go out and buy a new
one right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso image to a
CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it tells me it's
empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other drives (not root), I
can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate of 1 mb every few
minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to another, the same thing
happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to the
same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame this on
systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd seems to interfere
with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an open mind, as it
could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't track
down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks EVERYTHING
outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a few ports. I keep
watching for some kind of activity that might show me what's going on, but so
far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's already
backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger problem, I
would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty long
time.
Bill
12:26 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root
partition keep
disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme to
something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp
folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I have to
go through these steps manually, again and again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by command-line,
anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> And the first time I
did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my system (some months ago), I
have the same problem again, and nothing works to fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating space on
my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this kept
shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf tells me that
I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a fresh reboot);
this, I predict - based on past experience - will gradually shrink down to 0
over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with gparted,
slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to wiggle. I used to
allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but then I thought, hey, I've
got my system pretty well set up, and won't be downloading much of anything
new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning out extraneous unnecessary crap.
The newer distros, though, use up more and more space on the root partition,
just because they can; due to the fact that hard drives are getting bigger
and cheaper - even though not all of us can afford to go out and buy a new
one right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso image to a
CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it tells me it's
empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other drives (not root), I
can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate of 1 mb every few
minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to another, the same thing
happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to the
same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame this on
systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd seems to interfere
with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an open mind, as it
could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't track
down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks EVERYTHING
outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a few ports. I keep
watching for some kind of activity that might show me what's going on, but so
far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's already
backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger problem, I
would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty long
time.
Bill
Hi!
guess you never cleared the apt archive:
# apt-get clean
then you might look at the usual suspects:
# di -sch /*
or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size view"
...
nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
12:44 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 05:26:39 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
No, you're wrong there. I clear it manually (as I explain in my "quick &
dirty" post), using this command:
sudo
mv -v -f /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb -t
/media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/
I save all my packages so that I can install them manually with dpkg; due to
the fact that I must often make do without any Internet connection. There is
nothing in this folder.
Next suggestion?
Bill
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my
root partition keep
disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme to
something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp
folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I
have to go through these steps manually, again and again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by
command-line, anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
And the first time I did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my
system (some months ago), I have the same problem again, and nothing
works to fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating
space on my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this
kept shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf tells
me that I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a
fresh reboot); this, I predict - based on past experience - will
gradually shrink down to 0 over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with
gparted, slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to
wiggle. I used to allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but then
I thought, hey, I've got my system pretty well set up, and won't be
downloading much of anything new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning
out extraneous unnecessary crap. The newer distros, though, use up more
and more space on the root partition, just because they can; due to the
fact that hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper - even though not
all of us can afford to go out and buy a new one right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso image
to a CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it tells
me it's empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other drives
(not root), I can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate of
1 mb every few minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to
another, the same thing happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to
the same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame
this on systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd seems
to interfere with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an open
mind, as it could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't
track down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks
EVERYTHING outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a
few ports. I keep watching for some kind of activity that might show me
what's going on, but so far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's
already backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger
problem, I would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty
long time.
Bill
Hi!
guess you never cleared the apt archive:
# apt-get clean
then you might look at the usual suspects:
# di -sch /*
or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size
view" ...
nik 
12:54 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
Try something like this to find the largest files
https://www.tecmint.com/find-top-large-directories-and-files-sizes-in-linux/
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 8:26 AM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp <office(a)klepp.biz>
wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
--
John Pisini
Systems Administrator
TFCCS
617-450-3988
Disclaimer for email:
The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to
this message is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may
contain confidential or privileged information. This e-mail is not
intended to, and shall not, constitute an electronic signature giving rise
to a binding legal contract, unless expressly stated otherwise in the body
of the e-mail by the sender.
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my
root partition keep
disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme to
something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp
folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I
have to
go through these steps manually, again and
again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by
command-line,
anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir
/tmp/kde-<USERNAME> And the first
time I
did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my
system (some months ago),
I
have the same problem again, and nothing works to
fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating
space on
my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to
spare, but this kept
shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf tells me
that
I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root
partition (on a fresh
reboot);
this, I predict - based on past experience - will
gradually shrink down
to 0
over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with
gparted,
slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have
more room to wiggle. I
used to
allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition;
but then I thought, hey,
I've
got my system pretty well set up, and won't
be downloading much of
anything
new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning out
extraneous unnecessary
crap.
The newer distros, though, use up more and more
space on the root
partition,
just because they can; due to the fact that hard
drives are getting
bigger
and cheaper - even though not all of us can
afford to go out and buy a
new
one right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso
image to
a
CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but
when I load the disc, it tells me
it's
empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff
to other drives (not
root), I
can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at
a rate of 1 mb every
few
minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive
to another, the same
thing
happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to
the
same problem, but you get the general idea. I
would like to blame this on
systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd seems to
interfere
with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to
keep an open mind, as it
could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't
track
down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my
firewall blocks
EVERYTHING
outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted
connections on a few ports. I
keep
watching for some kind of activity that might
show me what's going on,
but so
far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's
already
backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a
different, bigger problem, I
would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty
long
time.
Bill
Hi!
guess you never cleared the apt archive:
# apt-get clean
then you might look at the usual suspects:
# di -sch /*
or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size
view" ...
nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing
with the NSA, CIA ...
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12:56 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 05:26:39 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Other suggestions: the command (I am supposing)
# di -sch /*
returns
bash: di: command not found
What is di? command? software package to download?
And konqueror returns this information:
"FSView intentionally does not support automatic updates when changes are
made to files or directories, currently visible in FSView, from the outside."
I opened konqueror as root, and am reviewing info now. I have a picture of my
hard drive, but so far nothing unusual. (I've seen this before, but haven't
done it in a while.)
Bill
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my
root partition keep
disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme to
something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp
folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I
have to go through these steps manually, again and again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by
command-line, anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
And the first time I did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my
system (some months ago), I have the same problem again, and nothing
works to fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating
space on my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this
kept shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf tells
me that I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a
fresh reboot); this, I predict - based on past experience - will
gradually shrink down to 0 over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with
gparted, slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to
wiggle. I used to allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but then
I thought, hey, I've got my system pretty well set up, and won't be
downloading much of anything new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning
out extraneous unnecessary crap. The newer distros, though, use up more
and more space on the root partition, just because they can; due to the
fact that hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper - even though not
all of us can afford to go out and buy a new one right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso image
to a CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it tells
me it's empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other drives
(not root), I can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate of
1 mb every few minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to
another, the same thing happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to
the same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame
this on systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd seems
to interfere with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an open
mind, as it could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't
track down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks
EVERYTHING outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a
few ports. I keep watching for some kind of activity that might show me
what's going on, but so far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's
already backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger
problem, I would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty
long time.
Bill
Hi!
guess you never cleared the apt archive:
# apt-get clean
then you might look at the usual suspects:
# di -sch /*
or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size
view" ...
nik
1 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
There is also ways to look for newest files
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5893748/linux-command-to-check-new-file…
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 8:56 AM, William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com>
wrote:
On Monday 19 March 2018 05:26:39 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Other suggestions: the command (I am supposing)
# di -sch /*
returns
bash: di: command not found
What is di? command? software package to download?
And konqueror returns this information:
"FSView intentionally does not support automatic updates when changes are
made to files or directories, currently visible in FSView, from the
outside."
I opened konqueror as root, and am reviewing info now. I have a picture of
my
hard drive, but so far nothing unusual. (I've seen this before, but haven't
done it in a while.)
Bill
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--
John Pisini
Systems Administrator
TFCCS
617-450-3988
Disclaimer for email:
The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to
this message is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may
contain confidential or privileged information. This e-mail is not
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to a binding legal contract, unless expressly stated otherwise in the body
of the e-mail by the sender.
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
> Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root partition keep
> disappearing?
>
> I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme
to
> something I liked better, and was asked to
make a tmp
> folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
> So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I
> have to go through these steps manually, again and again.
>
> Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by
> command-line, anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
> And the first time I did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my
> system (some months ago), I have the same problem again, and nothing
> works to fix it.
>
> This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating
> space on my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this
> kept shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf
tells
> me that I am down to 262 mb of space left on
my root partition (on a
> fresh reboot); this, I predict - based on past experience - will
> gradually shrink down to 0 over a couple days.
>
> (This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with
> gparted, slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to
> wiggle. I used to allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but
then
> I thought, hey, I've got my system
pretty well set up, and won't be
> downloading much of anything new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning
> out extraneous unnecessary crap. The newer distros, though, use up more
> and more space on the root partition, just because they can; due to the
> fact that hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper - even though not
> all of us can afford to go out and buy a new one right now.)
>
> And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso
image
> to a CD, and k3b tells me
"SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it
tells
> me it's empty. Also, when I have been
downloading stuff to other drives
> (not root), I can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate
of
> 1 mb every few minutes; or when I copy files
from one hard drive to
> another, the same thing happens.
>
> There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to
> the same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame
> this on systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd
seems
> to interfere with shutdowns and reboots);
but I am trying to keep an
open
mind, as
it could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't
track down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks
EVERYTHING outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a
few ports. I keep watching for some kind of activity that might show me
what's going on, but so far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's
already backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger
problem, I would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty
long time.
Bill
Hi!
guess you never cleared the apt archive:
# apt-get clean
then you might look at the usual suspects:
# di -sch /*
or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size
view" ...
nik
1:09 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:00:14 Pisini, John wrote:
There is also ways to look for newest files
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5893748/linux-command-to-check-new-file
s-in-file-system
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 8:56 AM, William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com>
wrote:
> On Monday 19 March 2018 05:26:39 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
> > > Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root partition keep
> > > disappearing?
> > >
> > > I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme
>
> to
>
> > > something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp
> > > folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
> > > So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and
> > > I have to go through these steps manually, again and again.
> > >
> > > Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by
> > > command-line, anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir
> > > /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> And the first time I did this, it worked; but
> > > after reinstalling my system (some months ago), I have the same
> > > problem again, and nothing works to fix it.
> > >
> > > This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating
> > > space on my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but
> > > this kept shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now
> > > kdf
>
> tells
>
> > > me that I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a
> > > fresh reboot); this, I predict - based on past experience - will
> > > gradually shrink down to 0 over a couple days.
> > >
> > > (This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with
> > > gparted, slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to
> > > wiggle. I used to allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but
>
> then
>
> > > I thought, hey, I've got my system pretty well set up, and won't
be
> > > downloading much of anything new, and I'm very hygienic about
> > > cleaning out extraneous unnecessary crap. The newer distros, though,
> > > use up more and more space on the root partition, just because they
> > > can; due to the fact that hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper
> > > - even though not all of us can afford to go out and buy a new one
> > > right now.)
> > >
> > > And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso
>
> image
>
> > > to a CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc,
it
>
> tells
>
> > > me it's empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other
> > > drives (not root), I can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking
> > > at a rate
>
> of
>
> > > 1 mb every few minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to
> > > another, the same thing happens.
> > >
> > > There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point
> > > to the same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to
> > > blame this on systemd or something like that (and it's true that
> > > systemd
>
> seems
>
> > > to interfere with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an
>
> open
>
> > > mind, as it could be another problem.
> > >
> > > All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I
> > > can't track down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall
> > > blocks EVERYTHING outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted
> > > connections on a few ports. I keep watching for some kind of activity
> > > that might show me what's going on, but so far it's a mystery.
> > >
> > > I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb.
> > > (Everything's already backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a
> > > different, bigger problem, I would like to sort that out first.
> > >
> > > Anybody have a clue what's happening?
> > >
> > > I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a
> > > pretty long time.
> > >
> > > Bill
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > guess you never cleared the apt archive:
> >
> > # apt-get clean
> >
> > then you might look at the usual suspects:
> >
> > # di -sch /*
> >
> > or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size
> > view" ...
> >
> > nik
>
> Other suggestions: the command (I am supposing)
> # di -sch /*
> returns
> bash: di: command not found
>
> What is di? command? software package to download?
>
> And konqueror returns this information:
> "FSView intentionally does not support automatic updates when changes are
> made to files or directories, currently visible in FSView, from the
> outside."
>
> I opened konqueror as root, and am reviewing info now. I have a picture
> of my
> hard drive, but so far nothing unusual. (I've seen this before, but
> haven't done it in a while.)
>
> Bill
>
>
I opened konqueror as root, and it shows details of everything in all my
drives, but for root is just one big amorphous blob.
By the way, the TDE mailing list mods ask that we don't top-post. Of course,
we also go totally off-topic on occasion, so they're pretty lenient. Most of
us try to stick to that rule, so it's easier to follow the threads.
Bill
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe@
> lists.pearsoncomputing.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help@lists.
> pearsoncomputing.net
> Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.
> pearsoncomputing.net/
> Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.
> pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
1:32 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 06:09:24AM -0700, William Morder wrote:
By the way, the TDE mailing list mods ask that we
don't top-post.
I don't think they mean to bottom-post at the end of two or three pages
of quoted text.
I think they mean to interleave your responses immediately after the
relevant quoted text, trimming anything irrelevant.
Top-posting is often annoying, but I can tell you it's not as annoying
as having to scroll down past thirty pages of quoting up to a dozen
levels deep:
> > > > > > > > > > >
blah blah blah blah...
to finally see the one and only line of new content:
"Me too!!!"
--
Steve
2:29 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:32:52 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 06:09:24AM -0700, William
Morder wrote:
That's true, but then I usually try to cut out the extraneous stuff. My own
posts can get long-winded, but I expect to be edited down to human size by
others. I think it's fine to comment after the other person's points,
one-at-a-time. It keeps the flow of thought together.
In other words, me too.
That particular response would have made more sense at the end; I wasn't
pointing it out to be a jerk. I only care for reasons of comprehension; and
that particular person had some useful information to offer. Otherwise, I
politely ignore people who don't follow the rules; I myself don't make the
rules here, and usually can be found on the other side of that line.
Of late we have been going totally off-topic a lot, for which I must admit mea
maxima culpa.
Bill
By the way, the TDE mailing list mods ask that we
don't top-post.
I don't think they mean to bottom-post at the end of two or three pages
of quoted text.
I think they mean to interleave your responses immediately after the
relevant quoted text, trimming anything irrelevant.
Top-posting is often annoying, but I can tell you it's not as annoying
as having to scroll down past thirty pages of quoting up to a dozen
levels deep:
> > > > > > > > > >
> blah blah blah blah...
to finally see the one and only line of new content:
"Me too!!!"
1:11 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
[...]
Other suggestions: the command (I am supposing)
# di -sch /*
returns
bash: di: command not found
What is di? command? software package to download?
oh my ... should be "du" :-)
And konqueror returns this information:
"FSView intentionally does not support automatic updates when changes are
made to files or directories, currently visible in FSView, from the outside."
I opened konqueror as root, and am reviewing info now. I have a picture of my
hard drive, but so far nothing unusual. (I've seen this before, but haven't
done it in a while.)
Bill
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Please remember not to top-post:
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--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
1:25 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:11:24 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
That makes more sense. Another user just sent me to a web page that describes
that command. Your version works better, though, for my purposes. I could
probably have found the information on those web pages, but it would have
taken time to sift it out from other stuff.
So I get this in my terminal:
4.0K /afs
11M /bin
160M /boot
0 /dev
57M /etc
26G /home
0 /initrd.img
0 /initrd.img.old
576M /lib
4.0K /live-build
16K /lost+found
Nothing looks too much out of the ordinary; I already can account for
everything in my /home directory, I think, and next biggest is /lib. So how
does 18 gb vanish?
Bill
[...]
Other suggestions: the command (I am supposing)
# di -sch /*
returns
bash: di: command not found
What is di? command? software package to download?
oh my ... should be "du" :-)
> And konqueror returns this information:
> "FSView intentionally does not support automatic updates when changes are
> made to files or directories, currently visible in FSView, from the
> outside."
>
> I opened konqueror as root, and am reviewing info now. I have a picture
> of my hard drive, but so far nothing unusual. (I've seen this before, but
> haven't done it in a while.)
>
> Bill
>
> >
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> trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional
> commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list
> messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/
> Please remember not to top-post:
> http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
1:39 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 06:25:15AM -0700, William Morder wrote:
So I get this in my terminal:
(I presume this is the output of du -- it might help if you show the
actual command you ran.)
4.0K /afs
11M /bin
160M /boot
0 /dev
57M /etc
26G /home
0 /initrd.img
0 /initrd.img.old
576M /lib
4.0K /live-build
16K /lost+found
Nothing looks too much out of the ordinary; I already can account for
everything in my /home directory, I think, and next biggest is /lib. So how
does 18 gb vanish?
Sorry for asking a dumb question, but what makes you say that 18GB has
vanished?
Also, I'm a little disturbed by the fact that you don't appear to have a
/ partition, although I'm not up to date with the brave new world of
systemd, maybe there's no such thing anymore...
What do you get when you run this?
df --si
--
Steve
2:39 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:39:23 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Well, I have allotted 18 gb for my root partition, and kdf shows me as having
169.5 mb free at the moment. Before I rebooted (just now), I had about 262
mb, I think it was. A couple weeks ago, I had over 1 gb free, and I haven't
downloaded anything.
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 06:25:15AM -0700, William
Morder wrote:
Yes, sorry, I ran
du -sch /*
as per Nik Klepp's recommendation.
Sorry, I don't always recognize that you haven't followed the threads. I try
to be clear.
So I get this in my terminal:
(I presume this is the output of du -- it might help if you show the
actual command you ran.) 4.0K /afs
11M /bin
160M /boot
0 /dev
57M /etc
26G /home
0 /initrd.img
0 /initrd.img.old
576M /lib
4.0K /live-build
16K /lost+found
Nothing looks too much out of the ordinary; I already can account for
everything in my /home directory, I think, and next biggest is /lib. So
how does 18 gb vanish?
Sorry for asking a dumb question, but what makes you say that 18GB has
vanished?
Also, I'm a little disturbed by the fact that you
don't appear to have a
/ partition, although I'm not up to date with the brave new world of
systemd, maybe there's no such thing anymore...
I said this earlier, but here are my partitions:
sda1 / 18 gb
sda2 swap 4 gb
sda3 /home 78 gb
(more or less)
What do you get when you run this?
df --si
/dev/sda1 18G 17G 178M 99% /
udev 11M 0 11M 0% /dev
tmpfs 423M 6.7M 416M 2% /run
tmpfs 1.1G 0 1.1G 0% /dev/shm
tmpfs 5.3M 4.1k 5.3M 1% /run/lock
tmpfs 1.1G 0 1.1G 0% /sys/fs/cgroup
/dev/sda3 77G 28G 46G 38% /home
tmpfs 212M 13k 212M 1% /run/user/1000
Looks like tmpfs has the most used up.
Bill
3 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:39:23 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Forgot: if it's a "hidden" file like '.swap' you'll have to
use:
# du -sch /* /.*
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 06:25:15AM -0700, William
Morder wrote:
Yes, sorry, I ran
du -sch /*
as per Nik Klepp's recommendation. So I get this in my terminal:
(I presume this is the output of du -- it might help if you show the
actual command you ran.) 
2:10 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 06:25 (UTC-0700):
So I get this in my terminal:
4.0K /afs
11M /bin
160M /boot
57M /etc
26G /home
576M /lib
4.0K /live-build
16K /lost+found
What's in /var/log/?
# du -sch /*
4.8M /bin
174M /boot
0 /dev
27M /etc
22G /home
1.4G /lib
19M /lib64
16K /lost+found
4.0K /media
4.0K /mnt
375M /opt
0 /proc
111M /root
2.5M /run
5.0M /sbin
4.0K /selinux
1.9G /srv
0 /sys
2.4G /tmp
5.4G /usr
1.6G /var
# df /
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/md2 18011336 7680600 9392760 45% /
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
3:11 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 07:10:57 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 06:25
(UTC-0700):
Improvising on the command recommended by Nik Klepp:
du -sch /var/log/*
100K /var/log/alternatives.log
68K /var/log/apache2
4.0K /var/log/apparmor
1.4M /var/log/apt
60K /var/log/auth.log
316K /var/log/auth.log.1
28K /var/log/auth.log.2.gz
16K /var/log/auth.log.3.gz
4.0K /var/log/bittorrent
0 /var/log/bootstrap.log
0 /var/log/btmp
8.0K /var/log/camo
4.0K /var/log/c-icap
588K /var/log/clamav
124K /var/log/clamav-unofficial-sigs.log
40K /var/log/clamav-unofficial-sigs.log.1.gz
40K /var/log/clamav-unofficial-sigs.log.2.gz
96K /var/log/ConsoleKit
48K /var/log/cubemap
40K /var/log/cups
1.7M /var/log/daemon.log
6.7M /var/log/daemon.log.1
528K /var/log/daemon.log.2.gz
92K /var/log/daemon.log.3.gz
32K /var/log/debug
272K /var/log/debug.1
24K /var/log/debug.2.gz
4.0K /var/log/debug.3.gz
8.0K /var/log/dirmngr
0 /var/log/dmesg
3.0M /var/log/dpkg.log
60K /var/log/exim4
4.0K /var/log/fai
8.0K /var/log/faillog
60K /var/log/firewalld
12K /var/log/fontconfig.log
4.0K /var/log/fsck
0 /var/log/fts.log
4.0K /var/log/fts.log.1
4.0K /var/log/glusterfs
52K /var/log/gnunetd
4.0K /var/log/gnustep-back-common.log
8.0K /var/log/hp
15M /var/log/installer
0 /var/log/kdm.log
4.0K /var/log/kdm.log.1
19M /var/log/kern.log
40M /var/log/kern.log.1
3.5M /var/log/kern.log.2.gz
36K /var/log/kern.log.3.gz
20K /var/log/lastlog
8.0K /var/log/macchanger.log
4.0K /var/log/macchanger.log.1.gz
4.0K /var/log/macchanger.log.2.gz
4.0K /var/log/mail.err
4.0K /var/log/mail.err.1
4.0K /var/log/mail.err.2.gz
4.0K /var/log/mail.err.3.gz
4.0K /var/log/mail.info
4.0K /var/log/mail.info.1
4.0K /var/log/mail.info.2.gz
4.0K /var/log/mail.info.3.gz
4.0K /var/log/mail.log
4.0K /var/log/mail.log.1
4.0K /var/log/mail.log.2.gz
4.0K /var/log/mail.log.3.gz
4.0K /var/log/mail.warn
4.0K /var/log/mail.warn.1
4.0K /var/log/mail.warn.2.gz
4.0K /var/log/mail.warn.3.gz
19M /var/log/messages
40M /var/log/messages.1
3.5M /var/log/messages.2.gz
36K /var/log/messages.3.gz
4.0K /var/log/mixmaster
4.0K /var/log/ntpstats
8.0K /var/log/partimage
12K /var/log/privoxy
4.0K /var/log/samba
4.0K /var/log/speech-dispatcher
1.3M /var/log/syslog
19M /var/log/syslog.1
1.1M /var/log/syslog.2.gz
700K /var/log/syslog.3.gz
436K /var/log/syslog.4.gz
344K /var/log/syslog.5.gz
908K /var/log/syslog.6.gz
688K /var/log/syslog.7.gz
732K /var/log/tdm.log
8.0K /var/log/tor
12K /var/log/ufw.log
184K /var/log/ufw.log.1
24K /var/log/ufw.log.2.gz
12K /var/log/user.log
200K /var/log/user.log.1
16K /var/log/user.log.2.gz
8.0K /var/log/user.log.3.gz
444K /var/log/wicd
112K /var/log/wtmp
20K /var/log/Xorg.0.log
20K /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old
116K /var/log/xymon
180M total
I don't know if anything looks suspicious in that. I appreciate the help, if
anybody sees something, or can recommend where else to look.
Bill
So I get this in my terminal:
4.0K /afs
11M /bin
160M /boot
57M /etc
26G /home
576M /lib
4.0K /live-build
16K /lost+found
What's in /var/log/?
# du -sch /*
4.8M /bin
174M /boot
0 /dev
27M /etc
22G /home
1.4G /lib
19M /lib64
16K /lost+found
4.0K /media
4.0K /mnt
375M /opt
0 /proc
111M /root
2.5M /run
5.0M /sbin
4.0K /selinux
1.9G /srv
0 /sys
2.4G /tmp
5.4G /usr
1.6G /var
# df /
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/md2 18011336 7680600 9392760 45% /
3:27 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 06:25 (UTC-0700):
So I get this in my terminal:
4.0K /afs
11M /bin
160M /boot
0 /dev
57M /etc
26G /home
0 /initrd.img
0 /initrd.img.old
576M /lib
4.0K /live-build
16K /lost+found
What about the rest of /? It took my 18GB / a while to finish after it got to
lost+found.
16K /lost+found
4.0K /media
4.0K /mnt
375M /opt
0 /proc
111M /root
2.5M /run
5.0M /sbin
4.0K /selinux
1.9G /srv
0 /sys
2.4G /tmp
5.4G /usr
1.6G /var
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
3:30 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 08:27:19 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 06:25
(UTC-0700):
The rest seemed to be only my external hard drives, so I killed it when it
appeared to be doing nothing else. However, I can try to let it run longer.
Bill
So I get this in my terminal:
4.0K /afs
11M /bin
160M /boot
0 /dev
57M /etc
26G /home
0 /initrd.img
0 /initrd.img.old
576M /lib
4.0K /live-build
16K /lost+found
What about the rest of /? It took my 18GB / a while to finish after it got
to lost+found.
16K /lost+found
4.0K /media
4.0K /mnt
375M /opt
0 /proc
111M /root
2.5M /run
5.0M /sbin
4.0K /selinux
1.9G /srv
0 /sys
2.4G /tmp
5.4G /usr
1.6G /var
4:31 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
7:34 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 09:31 (UTC-0700):
...
13G total
- where I find that /usr/lib and /usr/share take up the most. I don't think
you really want to read the whole list for these folders. Thus here are the
items that take up the most space. Most look pretty innocuous:
1.6G /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu
but in /usr/lib at the end I get
5.3G total
- but nothing else is more than a few kb or mb. The same thing happens when I
look in /usr/share; the biggest item is:
1.9G /usr/share/doc
- and nothing else takes up more than a few kb or mb, yet at the end I get:
6.1G total
1-Have you ever manually added content to, or removed content from, /usr/ (other
than /usr/local/), including with a backup/restore program (not package any
manager)?
2-Is your / filesystem type BTRFS?
3-How many installed kernels and initrds do you have?
4-Do you have many optional font packages installed?
5-Asking on debian-user list may draw a more helpful response.
If answer to 1 is yes, suspect possible broken hard links.
Even though we both use 18G / filesystems, mine has only 444M in /usr/lib/ and
1.3G in /usr/share/. I have 5 installed kernels, and EXT4 /.
# df /
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/md2 18011336 7691316 9382044 46% /
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
7:58 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 12:34:39 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 09:31
(UTC-0700):
...
No.
13G total
- where I find that /usr/lib and /usr/share take up the most. I don't
think you really want to read the whole list for these folders. Thus here
are the items that take up the most space. Most look pretty innocuous:
1.6G /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu
but in /usr/lib at the end I get
5.3G total
- but nothing else is more than a few kb or mb. The same thing happens
when I look in /usr/share; the biggest item is:
1.9G /usr/share/doc
- and nothing else takes up more than a few kb or mb, yet at the end I
get: 6.1G total
1-Have you ever manually added content to, or removed content from, /usr/
(other than /usr/local/), including with a backup/restore program (not
package any manager)?
2-Is your / filesystem type BTRFS?
No, but I was trying to format a flash drive,
and that somehow started coming
up afterwards. However, the flash drive in question is not connected, and I
intend to format it as FAT-32, so I can use it on other systems.
3-How many installed kernels and initrds do you have?
2 each:
initrd.img 27.5 mb
initrd.img.old 26.4 mb
vmlinuz 2.9 mb
vmlinuz.old 2.7 mb
4-Do you have many optional font packages installed?
I do have lots of fonts installed, practically everything available. But I've
always done that (since 2006 when I started running Linux), because I work
with text and layout.
5-Asking on debian-user list may draw a more helpful response.
If answer to 1 is yes, suspect possible broken hard links.
Even though we both use 18G / filesystems, mine has only 444M in /usr/lib/
and 1.3G in /usr/share/. I have 5 installed kernels, and EXT4 /.
# df /
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/md2 18011336 7691316 9382044 46% /
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1) partition;
then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and
now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time,
I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
Bill
8:06 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
[...]
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1) partition;
then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and
now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time,
I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
I would suggest you make a clean installation.
nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
8:18 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 13:06:55 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
And I do intend to reinstall, and make the change to Devuan. But I did a
reinstallation before when I had this same problem, and it keeps coming back.
So I would like to resolve this issue before I move on to a Devuan
installation.
Bill
[...]
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1)
partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600,
400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0.
In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything
different.
I would suggest you make a clean installation.
nik
8:55 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
On Monday 19 March 2018 13:06:55 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
The last guy I had seen with a simillar problem of "vanishing free space" was a
human rights activist. He got a "lawful" trojan that took screenshots about
every second and stored them in a "hidden" folder.
Nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
And I do intend to reinstall, and make the change to Devuan. But I did a
reinstallation before when I had this same problem, and it keeps coming back.
So I would like to resolve this issue before I move on to a Devuan
installation. [...]
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1)
partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600,
400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0.
In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything
different.
I would suggest you make a clean installation.
nik
20 Mar
20 Mar
1:14 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 13:55:28 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Yeah, I've been worried about something like that for years now. That's why I
moved to SF from the Midwest. I've been working on a project that it seems
certain people "out there" don't like. And also among my friends I keep too
many friends of dark complexion, foreign origin, or the wrong religion.
These days, one can't be "too paranoid"; and I expect the Thought Police to
kick in my door at any moment. If that happens, it just proves that they are
more paranoid than I am. I mostly read ancient literature, and spend my life
deep in the past.
Oh well, you can't please everybody!
Bill
On Monday 19 March 2018 13:06:55 Dr. Nikolaus
Klepp wrote:
The last guy I had seen with a simillar problem of "vanishing free space"
was a human rights activist. He got a "lawful" trojan that took screenshots
about every second and stored them in a "hidden" folder.
Nik Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
And I do intend to reinstall, and make the change to Devuan. But I did a
reinstallation before when I had this same problem, and it keeps coming
back. So I would like to resolve this issue before I move on to a Devuan
installation. [...]
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1)
partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb,
600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes
down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or
done anything different.
I would suggest you make a clean installation.
nik
19 Mar
19 Mar
8:21 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 15:58 (UTC-0400):
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in
my / (sda1) partition;
then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and
now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time,
I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
What do you get from
du -sch /var/log/jou*
???
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
20 Mar
20 Mar
12:59 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 12:58:11 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1)
partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600,
400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0.
In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything
different.
I may have missed that but it seems no one have asked it in the thread -
did you reboot you system during this time or is it a continuous uptime?
--
Nick Koretsky (nick.koretsky(a)gmail.com)
1:28 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 17:59:03 Nick Koretsky wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 12:58:11 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Yes, I did reboot. I probably was rebooting my system every few days, just
because my Firefox seems to be interfering with my network connection. And
while I was learning the differences in a Debian system (in contrast to
Ubuntu), I also rebooted constantly, because I was constantly messing up my
system. For the past few months, though, my system has been fairly stable,
and I haven't been downloading and installing new packages.
Right now the problems are: 1) my vanishing partition, 2) why Firefox messes
up my network connection, and 3) minor bugs.
Nowadays I might go a week or two without rebooting, unless I end up with no
space left on my root partition.
Bill
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb
free in my / (sda1)
partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600,
400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0.
In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything
different.
I may have missed that but it seems no one have asked it in the thread -
did you reboot you system during this time or is it a continuous uptime?
2:42 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:28:24 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Yes, I did reboot. I probably was rebooting my system every few days,
just because my Firefox seems to be interfering with my network
connection. And while I was learning the differences in a Debian system
(in contrast to Ubuntu), I also rebooted constantly, because I was
constantly messing up my system. For the past few months, though, my
system has been fairly stable, and I haven't been downloading and
installing new packages.
Right now the problems are: 1) my vanishing partition, 2) why Firefox
messes up my network connection, and 3) minor bugs.
Nowadays I might go a week or two without rebooting, unless I end up with
no space left on my root partition.
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You see one of a possible
reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some daemon
misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
--
Nick Koretsky (nick.koretsky(a)gmail.com)
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in
my / (sda1)
partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb,
600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes
down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or
done anything different.
I may have missed that but it seems no one have asked it in the thread -
did you reboot you system during this time or is it a continuous
uptime?
3 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 19:42:36 Nick Koretsky wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:28:24 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Yes, I did reboot. I probably was rebooting my system every few days,
just because my Firefox seems to be interfering with my network
connection. And while I was learning the differences in a Debian system
(in contrast to Ubuntu), I also rebooted constantly, because I was
constantly messing up my system. For the past few months, though, my
system has been fairly stable, and I haven't been downloading and
installing new packages.
Right now the problems are: 1) my vanishing partition, 2) why Firefox
messes up my network connection, and 3) minor bugs.
Nowadays I might go a week or two without rebooting, unless I end up with
no space left on my root partition.
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You see one of a possible
reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some daemon
misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence one reason for rebooting,
when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping issue of space
disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time.
Bill
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in
my / (sda1)
partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb,
600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes
down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or
done anything different.
I may have missed that but it seems no one have asked it in the thread
- did you reboot you system during this time or is it a continuous
uptime?
3:11 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 20:00 (UTC-0700):
Nick Koretsky wrote:
> Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space?
You see one of a possible
> reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some daemon
> misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence
one reason for rebooting,
when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping issue of space
disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time.
Maybe a look at /etc/fstab and output from
mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|tmpfs|^sys|on /dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var" |
sort
would help us help you.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
3:33 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 20:11:24 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 20:00
(UTC-0700):
Yes, and I do appreciate all the help, and thanks for your patience.
mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|tmpfs|^sys|on /dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var"
/dev/sda1 on / type ext2 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro)
/dev/sdc1 on /media/<sdc1> type ext3 (rw,relatime,data=ordered)
/dev/sdd1 on /media/<sdd1> type ext3 (rw,relatime,data=ordered)
/dev/sdb1 on /media/<sdb1> type ext3 (rw,relatime,data=ordered)
/dev/sda3 on /home type ext3 (rw,relatime,data=ordered)
gvfsd-fuse on /run/user/1000/gvfs type fuse.gvfsd-fuse
(rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=1000,group_id=1000)
/dev/sdf1 on /media/<USER>/4b4696d9-05d4-423f-acfa-707f7148f245 type ext3
(rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,data=ordered,uhelper=udisks2)
/dev/sdg1 on /media/<USER>/30A3-239E type vfat
(rw,nosuid,nodev,noatime,uid=1000,gid=1000,fmask=0022,dmask=0077,codepage=437,iocharset=utf8,shortname=lower,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro,uhelper=udisks2)
(Note: Changed user name, and names of mount points, for security reasons.)
I would just like to resolve this issue before I move on to resizing my
partition, and installing Devuan. If this is something bigger than just
temporary files (and it seems to me that it is), then creating a bigger root
partition will not solve my problems.
Like I mentioned before, I had about 2.2 gb of free space on that partition
about a month ago, then it gradually shrank down to 165 mb. Something is not
right there, I feel.
Bill
Nick Koretsky wrote:
Maybe a look at /etc/fstab and output from
mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|tmpfs|^sys|on /dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var" |
sort would help us help you. Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space?
You see one of a
possible reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some
daemon misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence one reason for
rebooting, when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping issue
of space disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time.
4:03 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 20:33 (UTC-0700):
mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|tmpfs|^sys|on
/dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var"
/dev/sda1 on / type ext2 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro)
How did this non-journaled / filesystem happen? Just go ahead and do your
reinstallation, but be sure to format / EXT3 or EXT4, so you have journaling to
assist in avoiding corruption in case of crashing or exhausting freespace. Make
a note of freespace/consumed space as soon as you finish installation, then
again after getting all your optional fonts installed, so you know how much
space was consumed initially and then when ready to work.
What is it you are running now, Jessie? I don't think I saw you mention it in
this thread. What CPU, chipset and gfxchip (how old is it all)? Why 32-bit? How
much RAM?
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
4:18 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 21:03:17 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 20:33
(UTC-0700):
Yes, running Debian Jessie 8.10 or whatever is the most recent update. I was
wondering about how to format root. I am used to ext2 for root partition from
older Ubuntu versions, but I see everybody using ext3 or ext4 now, so this
might be part of the problem.
It is 32-bit because I installed a new motherboard, and that is all that was
available for cheap. I've always run 64-bit before.
Any quick commands to find out CPU, chipset and gfxchip? And yes, some of it
is old (I did say it's a Frankenstein), but my motherboard is pretty new.
Bill
mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|tmpfs|^sys|on
/dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var"
/dev/sda1 on / type ext2 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro)
How did this non-journaled / filesystem happen? Just go ahead and do your
reinstallation, but be sure to format / EXT3 or EXT4, so you have
journaling to assist in avoiding corruption in case of crashing or
exhausting freespace. Make a note of freespace/consumed space as soon as
you finish installation, then again after getting all your optional fonts
installed, so you know how much space was consumed initially and then when
ready to work.
What is it you are running now, Jessie? I don't think I saw you mention it
in this thread. What CPU, chipset and gfxchip (how old is it all)? Why
32-bit? How much RAM?
4:37 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 21:18 (UTC-0700):
Yes, running Debian Jessie 8.10 or whatever is the
most recent update. I was
wondering about how to format root. I am used to ext2 for root partition from
older Ubuntu versions, but I see everybody using ext3 or ext4 now, so this
might be part of the problem.
Formatting / is usually a default option in any Linux installer, but they tend
to format the same type, which in your case is not desirable. Just be sure to
specify / get formatted and /home not.
It is 32-bit because I installed a new motherboard,
and that is all that was
available for cheap. I've always run 64-bit before.
Any quick commands to find out CPU, chipset and
gfxchip? And yes, some of it
is old (I did say it's a Frankenstein), but my motherboard is pretty new.
lspci
or
inxi -v4
should do well enough.
cat /proc/cpuinfo
can be misleading to the uninitiated, but does report whether limited to 32-bit
or not.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
5:03 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 21:37:42 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 21:18
(UTC-0700):
# lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 82945G/GZ/P/PL Memory Controller Hub
(rev 02)
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82945G/GZ Integrated
Graphics Controller (rev 02)
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family High Definition Audio
Controller (rev 01)
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family PCI Express Port 1 (rev
01)
00:1d.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB UHCI Controller
#1 (rev 01)
00:1d.1 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB UHCI Controller
#2 (rev 01)
00:1d.2 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB UHCI Controller
#3 (rev 01)
00:1d.3 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB UHCI Controller
#4 (rev 01)
00:1d.7 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB2 EHCI
Controller (rev 01)
00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev e1)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801GB/GR (ICH7 Family) LPC Interface
Bridge (rev 01)
00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) IDE Controller
(rev 01)
00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family SATA Controller [IDE
mode] (rev 01)
00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family SMBus Controller (rev 01)
02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Qualcomm Atheros Attansic L1 Gigabit Ethernet
(rev b0)
Yes, running Debian Jessie 8.10 or whatever is
the most recent update. I
was wondering about how to format root. I am used to ext2 for root
partition from older Ubuntu versions, but I see everybody using ext3 or
ext4 now, so this might be part of the problem.
Formatting / is usually a default option in any Linux installer, but they
tend to format the same type, which in your case is not desirable. Just be
sure to specify / get formatted and /home not.
It is 32-bit because I installed a new
motherboard, and that is all that
was available for cheap. I've always run 64-bit before.
Any quick commands to find out CPU, chipset and gfxchip? And yes, some of
it is old (I did say it's a Frankenstein), but my motherboard is pretty
new.
lspci or
inxi -v4
# inxi -v4
System: Host: debian Kernel: 3.16.0-5-686-pae i686 (32 bit gcc: 4.8.4)
Desktop: N/A Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 8
Machine: Mobo: ASUSTeK model: P5GC-VM v: Rev x.xx serial: MS1C79B00G03073
Bios: American Megatrends v: 0407 date: 09/22/2008
CPU: Dual core Intel Pentium Dual E2200 (-MCP-) cache: 1024 KB
flags: (lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 ssse3) bmips: 8800
Clock Speeds: 1: 2200 MHz 2: 2200 MHz
Graphics: Card: Intel 82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics Controller bus-ID:
00:02.0
Display Server: X.org 1.16.4 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
tty size: 131x31 Advanced Data: N/A for root
Network: Card-1: Qualcomm Atheros Attansic L1 Gigabit Ethernet driver: atl1
v: 2.1.3 bus-ID: 02:00.0
IF: eth0 state: down mac: 00:1d:60:7f:8e:50
Card-2: ZyDAS ZD1211B 802.11g driver: zd1211rw v: 1.0 usb-ID:
005-004
IF: wlan0 state: up mac: 00:02:72:1b:a5:2d
Drives: HDD Total Size: 7109.6GB (83.5% used) ID-1: /dev/sdb model:
WDC_WD15EADS size: 1500.3GB temp: 44C
ID-2: /dev/sdd model: WDC_WD20EADS size: 2000.4GB temp: 44C
ID-3: /dev/sda model: HTS541010G9SA00 size: 100.0GB temp: 32C
ID-4: /dev/sdc model: ST31500341AS size: 1500.3GB temp: 32C
ID-5: USB /dev/sde model: 10EAVS_External size: 1000.2GB temp: 0C
ID-6: USB /dev/sdf model: 10EAVS_External size: 1000.2GB temp: 0C
ID-7: USB /dev/sdg model: COBY_MP3_Player size: 8.1GB temp: 0C
Partition: ID-1: / size: 17G used: 16G (100%) fs: ext2 dev: /dev/sda1
ID-2: /home size: 72G used: 27G (40%) fs: ext3 dev: /dev/sda3
ID-3: swap-1 size: 4.00GB used: 3.40GB (85%) fs: swap
dev: /dev/sda2
Info: Processes: 374 Uptime: 14:57 Memory: 1390.6/2015.1MB Init: systemd
runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 4.9.2
Client: Shell (bash 4.3.301) inxi: 2.1.28
I only have 2 gb of RAM. I have extra memory sticks, but they are taken from
my old 64-bit system. In another few months, I hope to upgrade the memory,
when I can afford it, and to buy an external hard drive (at least 2-3 TB), so
that I can transfer files to that, and gradually clean up excess, make
everything more secure, etc. But for now, this is what I have to work with.
cat /proc/cpuinfo
# cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 6
model : 15
model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz
stepping : 13
microcode : 0xa4
cpu MHz : 2200.000
cache size : 1024 KB
physical id : 0
siblings : 2
core id : 0
cpu cores : 2
apicid : 0
initial apicid : 0
fdiv_bug : no
f00f_bug : no
coma_bug : no
fpu : yes
fpu_exception : yes
cpuid level : 10
wp : yes
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca
cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm
constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts aperfmperf pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl est
tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm lahf_lm dtherm
bogomips : 4400.45
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:
processor : 1
vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 6
model : 15
model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz
stepping : 13
microcode : 0xa1
cpu MHz : 2200.000
cache size : 1024 KB
physical id : 0
siblings : 2
core id : 1
cpu cores : 2
apicid : 1
initial apicid : 1
fdiv_bug : no
f00f_bug : no
coma_bug : no
fpu : yes
fpu_exception : yes
cpuid level : 10
wp : yes
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca
cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm
constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts aperfmperf pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl est
tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm lahf_lm dtherm
bogomips : 4400.45
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:
can be misleading to the uninitiated, but does report
whether limited to
32-bit or not.
I don't see anything unusual here, but maybe others are better able to
decipher the information.
Bill
5:33 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 22:03 (UTC-0700):
Felix Miata wrote:
...
> inxi -v4
# inxi -v4
You missed my redo
inxi -v4 -m
which details RAM slots and type.
model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200
@ 2.20GHz
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
Your hardware supports 64 bit. It's a close match to 3 of my own PCs, rather
old, but certainly very usable with TDE and 64-bit OS.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
6:12 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 22:33:10 Felix Miata wrote:
# inxi -v4
You missed my redo
inxi -v4 -m
which details RAM slots and type.> inxi -v4 -m
model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200
@ 2.20GHz
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
Your hardware supports 64 bit. It's a close match
to 3 of my own PCs, rather
old, but certainly very usable with TDE and 64-bit OS.
Maybe so, but when I tried to install 64-bit, it rejected the packages as the
wrong architecture, and I had a techie friend here confirm that it was
strictly 32-bit. Otherwise, I would use the memory sticks that I have sitting
right here, which would give me (I think) 6 gb of RAM.
# inxi -v4 -m
System: Host: debian Kernel: 3.16.0-5-686-pae i686 (32 bit gcc: 4.8.4)
Desktop: N/A Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 8
Machine: Mobo: ASUSTeK model: P5GC-VM v: Rev x.xx serial: MS1C79B00G03073
Bios: American Megatrends v: 0407 date: 09/22/2008
CPU: Dual core Intel Pentium Dual E2200 (-MCP-) cache: 1024 KB
flags: (lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 ssse3) bmips: 8800
Clock Speeds: 1: 2200 MHz 2: 2200 MHz
Memory: Placeholder: Feature not yet developed
Graphics: Card: Intel 82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics Controller bus-ID:
00:02.0
Display Server: X.org 1.16.4 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
tty size: 131x31 Advanced Data: N/A for root
Network: Card-1: Qualcomm Atheros Attansic L1 Gigabit Ethernet driver: atl1
v: 2.1.3 bus-ID: 02:00.0
IF: eth0 state: down mac: 00:1d:60:7f:8e:50
Card-2: ZyDAS ZD1211B 802.11g driver: zd1211rw v: 1.0 usb-ID:
005-004
IF: wlan0 state: up mac: 00:02:72:0c:e4:14
Drives: HDD Total Size: 7109.6GB (83.5% used) ID-1: /dev/sdb model:
WDC_WD15EADS size: 1500.3GB temp: 44C
ID-2: /dev/sdd model: WDC_WD20EADS size: 2000.4GB temp: 44C
ID-3: /dev/sda model: HTS541010G9SA00 size: 100.0GB temp: 29C
ID-4: /dev/sdc model: ST31500341AS size: 1500.3GB temp: 32C
ID-5: USB /dev/sde model: 10EAVS_External size: 1000.2GB temp: 0C
ID-6: USB /dev/sdf model: 10EAVS_External size: 1000.2GB temp: 0C
ID-7: USB /dev/sdg model: COBY_MP3_Player size: 8.1GB temp: 0C
Partition: ID-1: / size: 17G used: 16G (100%) fs: ext2 dev: /dev/sda1
ID-2: /home size: 72G used: 27G (40%) fs: ext3 dev: /dev/sda3
ID-3: swap-1 size: 4.00GB used: 3.44GB (86%) fs: swap
dev: /dev/sda2
Info: Processes: 374 Uptime: 16:08 Memory: 1437.3/2015.1MB Init: systemd
runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 4.9.2
Client: Shell (bash 4.3.301) inxi: 2.1.28
Bill
7:12 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200
@ 2.20GHz
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
That CPU is clearly 64-bit:
https://ark.intel.com/products/33925/Intel-Pentium-Processor-E2200-1M-Cache…
I don't know what could have gone wrong to make an installer think it wasn't
64-bit capable. I don't think there is such a thing as a socket LGA775
motherboard that doesn't support 64-bit CPUs. It may even be that there is no
such thing as a 32-bit CPU to fit a socket LGA775.
Could it be that the HD had a 32-bit OS installed and was trying to install in
upgrade mode? That might explain why the / filesystem was EXT2, and why you
wound up with / filesystems routinely losing space.
Maybe that model motherboard was released with a BIOS too old to properly
support the E2200 CPU, and needs a BIOS update. You can find the installed BIOS
version via BIOS setup, or from the POST screen, or use dmidecode.
Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard or need "techie" help. Fetch
and
burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction of
download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD I
previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
7:36 a.m.
New subject: my vanishing root partition
Felix Miata wrote:
Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard or
need "techie" help. Fetch
and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction
of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD I
previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
Felix, I didn't follow up this in detail, but why would one use DVD or CD
today, when there is USB stick that cost nothing?!
We are in 21st century
7:53 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 00:36:34 deloptes wrote:
Felix Miata wrote:
I can manage using dd to copy the image to a flash drive; I've done that
before. But I do have other uses for my available flash drives, although at
present I could use it as a one-time fix.
Also, it isn't so important to me to be on the cutting edge of everything. I
just want to get my computer rebuilt, running and stable. And I have several
stacks of brand-new, unused 100 CDs and 100 DVDs, but only a few flash
drives. In any case, this is not so important, and I can manage these
details.
All I want is to track down the source of this issue, resolve it, then resize
my root partition and change over to Devuan. And I can change to 64-bit
later, as well, if that will work. My most pressing problem at the moment is
why I am losing space on my root partition. Speaking of which: after a couple
more hours (during most of which I have been offline, as I was attending to
stuff in the real world), I am now down to 60.3 mb of free space. If you have
followed these threads, I was at something like 165 mb a few hours ago, and
200+ mb a day or so ago.
Bill
Bill
Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard
or need "techie" help. Fetch
and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction
of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD I
previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
Felix, I didn't follow up this in detail, but why would one use DVD or CD
today, when there is USB stick that cost nothing?!
We are in 21st century
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6:29 p.m.
New subject: my vanishing root partition
William Morder wrote:
All I want is to track down the source of this issue,
resolve it, then
resize my root partition and change over to Devuan. And I can change to
64-bit later, as well, if that will work. My most pressing problem at the
moment is why I am losing space on my root partition. Speaking of which:
after a couple more hours (during most of which I have been offline, as I
was attending to stuff in the real world), I am now down to 60.3 mb of
free space. If you have followed these threads, I was at something like
165 mb a few hours ago, and 200+ mb a day or so ago.
have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
regards
21 Mar
21 Mar
1:46 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 11:29:17 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
Well, the file itself is 170.8 kb. As to the content, there are a lot of
items, but it all seems to be ordinary processes. Should I be looking for
something in particular?
Bill
All I want is to track down the source of this
issue, resolve it, then
resize my root partition and change over to Devuan. And I can change to
64-bit later, as well, if that will work. My most pressing problem at the
moment is why I am losing space on my root partition. Speaking of which:
after a couple more hours (during most of which I have been offline, as I
was attending to stuff in the real world), I am now down to 60.3 mb of
free space. If you have followed these threads, I was at something like
165 mb a few hours ago, and 200+ mb a day or so ago.
have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
regards
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4:36 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 05:46:48 pm William Morder wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 11:29:17 deloptes wrote:
Re-install now, burning to many brain cells . The free space is way to small,
my Debian occupied space in root is 16 gb out of 20gb. I thought it was a
waste when I set this box up.
I hestitate to offer more info..what about swap?
\greg
William Morder wrote:
Well, the file itself is 170.8 kb. As to the content, there are a lot of
items, but it all seems to be ordinary processes. Should I be looking for
something in particular?
Bill All I want is to track down the source of this
issue, resolve it, then
resize my root partition and change over to Devuan. And I can change to
64-bit later, as well, if that will work. My most pressing problem at
the moment is why I am losing space on my root partition. Speaking of
which: after a couple more hours (during most of which I have been
offline, as I was attending to stuff in the real world), I am now down
to 60.3 mb of free space. If you have followed these threads, I was at
something like 165 mb a few hours ago, and 200+ mb a day or so ago.
have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
regards
4:51 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 21:36:43 Greg Madden wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 05:46:48 pm William Morder
wrote:
Yes, I am already there in spirit. I am tired, and too much time is wasted.
Thanks for everybody's patience. Even though I haven't yet resolved the
issue, I did pick up a lot of useful tips and commands, etc.
Right now I want to find a partition manager that I already have on CD
somewhere, or try to burn a new one. (It seems that k3b is failing to burn
discs. I might try burning a disc by command-line.) First I want to resize my
root partition, then make the switch to Devuan; although I might reinstall
Debian first, for sake of continuity.
By the way, now kmail crashes whenever I try to use keyboard shortcuts to
reply to emails. I have to choose reply from the menu instead.
On reboot, some space is reclaimed: free space moved back up to 140+ mb; and
now I am at 123 mb. The general tendency, however, is a steady and
incremental loss of space.
I suppose that I can still try to resolve this issue after reinstallation.
Bill
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 11:29:17 deloptes
wrote:
Re-install now, burning to many brain cells . The free space is way to
small, my Debian occupied space in root is 16 gb out of 20gb. I thought
it was a waste when I set this box up.
I hestitate to offer more info..what about swap?
\greg William Morder wrote:
Well, the file itself is 170.8 kb. As to the content, there are a lot of
items, but it all seems to be ordinary processes. Should I be looking for
something in particular?
Bill All I want is to track down the source of this
issue, resolve it,
then resize my root partition and change over to Devuan. And I can
change to 64-bit later, as well, if that will work. My most pressing
problem at the moment is why I am losing space on my root partition.
Speaking of which: after a couple more hours (during most of which I
have been offline, as I was attending to stuff in the real world), I
am now down to 60.3 mb of free space. If you have followed these
threads, I was at something like 165 mb a few hours ago, and 200+ mb
a day or so ago.
have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
regards
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4:44 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 06:46:48PM -0700, William Morder wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 11:29:17 deloptes wrote:
[...]
> have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
I also suggested that a couple of days ago. It is important to check the
root user's home directory as well as your standard home directory.
Well, the file itself is 170.8 kb. As to the content,
there are a lot of
items, but it all seems to be ordinary processes. Should I be looking for
something in particular?
If its only 170 kB, then it's not the problem you're looking for. The
scenario I was referring to is when you get thousands of X errors a
second, and the .xsession-errors file explodes out to hundreds of
megabytes or gigabytes in size.
Here's a thought... if you disconnect the internet, does the root
partition stop filling up? Give it, say, 10 minutes and see if it stops
growing, and then starts again when you turn the connection back on.
Does your ISP offer usage stats? If so, are they unusual?
My thinking is to discover whether or not this unusual disk usage is
purely internal, or whether it has something to do with the internet
access: either data being downloaded, or uploaded, or both.
Not necessarily something malicious. Maybe you've got a rogue
(misconfigured) program downloading updates over and over and over
again, thousands of times.
--
Steve
5:01 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 21:44:47 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 06:46:48PM -0700, William
Morder wrote:
Sometimes it keeps filling up. I tend to disconnect from the Internet when I
don't need the connection for anything, due to issues with the network
itself.
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 11:29:17 deloptes wrote:
[...]
> have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
I also suggested that a couple of days ago. It is important to check the
root user's home directory as well as your standard home directory.
Well, the file itself is 170.8 kb. As to the
content, there are a lot of
items, but it all seems to be ordinary processes. Should I be looking for
something in particular?
If its only 170 kB, then it's not the problem you're looking for. The
scenario I was referring to is when you get thousands of X errors a
second, and the .xsession-errors file explodes out to hundreds of
megabytes or gigabytes in size.
Here's a thought... if you disconnect the internet, does the root
partition stop filling up? Give it, say, 10 minutes and see if it stops
growing, and then starts again when you turn the connection back on.
Does your ISP offer usage stats? If so, are they
unusual?
The Internet is provided by my apartment building, so our ISP offers nothing;
the network is also pretty insecure (the password could be cracked by a child
in about 15 minutes), and we constantly have issues with the network. The
access point is in the hallway outside my door, yet iwconfig shows that my
signal level is hardly ever above 50/100 for signal level.
My thinking is to discover whether or not this unusual disk usage is
purely internal, or whether it has something to do with the internet
access: either data being downloaded, or uploaded, or both.
Not necessarily something malicious. Maybe you've got a rogue
(misconfigured) program downloading updates over and over and over
again, thousands of times.
Only clamav tends to download updates a lot, and slows down everything.
Anyway, I think I'm just going to surrender to necessity and reinstall; but
not before I resize my root partition.
Bill
5:06 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
I remember once, there was a strange file
It was supposed to be terabytes.... in a disk of gigabytes
It was some strange error of the file system....
If you just reformat clean the root partition
The problem persist? (not convert)
20 Mar
20 Mar
8:13 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
deloptes composed on 2018-03-20 08:36 (UTC+0100):
Felix Miata wrote:
> Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard
or need "techie" help. Fetch
> and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction
> of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
> Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for
the Knoppix DVD or CD I
> previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
Felix, I didn't follow up this in detail, but why
would one use DVD or CD
today, when there is USB stick that cost nothing?!
We are in 21st century
Where are there sticks that cost nothing in any quantity?
OM are *far* cheaper than any sticks I ever got, especially on a size actually
needed and/or fitting basis, e.g. 670M for CD, 4G for DVD; and cheap enough to
use once and discard.
OM have room to write legibly on them what they contain
OM are uniform size and shape, much easier to catalog and inventory than
hundreds of different size and shape sticks.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
9:28 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 01:13:27 Felix Miata wrote:
deloptes composed on 2018-03-20 08:36 (UTC+0100):
I have memory sticks sitting right here beside me; I extracted them from my
old desktop after it got fried in a power surge. What I think our other
participant means is that (assuming one has a flash drive that's empty), it
costs nothing to burn the image to that drive, use it once for its intended
purpose, then erase the image; thus not wasting any CDs or DVDs.
As for the relative expense or cheapness of other memory sticks, right now I
have to scrape together my spare change to buy toilet paper. (No, I am not
joking.) In another few month, I expect that I will get my finances a little
more under control, but at present buying anything at all is a luxury.
For future reference, though, I will file away this information.
Bill
Felix Miata wrote:
Where are there sticks that cost nothing in any quantity?
OM are *far* cheaper than any sticks I ever got, especially on a size
actually needed and/or fitting basis, e.g. 670M for CD, 4G for DVD; and
cheap enough to use once and discard.
OM have room to write legibly on them what they contain
OM are uniform size and shape, much easier to catalog and inventory than
hundreds of different size and shape sticks. Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard
or need "techie" help.
Fetch and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small
fraction of download size and time, and see what happens in clean /
install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD
I previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to
do.
Felix, I didn't follow up this in detail, but why would one use DVD or CD
today, when there is USB stick that cost nothing?!
We are in 21st century
7:42 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 00:12:58 Felix Miata wrote:
Curiouser and curiouser. I feel like I have gone down the rabbit hole.
model name
: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
That CPU is clearly 64-bit:
https://ark.intel.com/products/33925/Intel-Pentium-Processor-E2200-1M-Cache
-2_20-GHz-800-MHz-FSB
I don't know what could have gone wrong to make an installer think it
wasn't 64-bit capable. I don't think there is such a thing as a socket
LGA775 motherboard that doesn't support 64-bit CPUs. It may even be that
there is no such thing as a 32-bit CPU to fit a socket LGA775.
Could it be that the HD had a 32-bit OS installed and
was trying to install
in upgrade mode? That might explain why the / filesystem was EXT2, and why
you wound up with / filesystems routinely losing space.
No, I previously had installed 64-bit Kubuntu (several versions) on that hard
drive; and the other hard drives were all used with that system, and other
systems, always 64-bit. This is the first time, in fact, that I have ever run
32-bit, and didn't really want it.
The hard drives were all used previously in my 64-bit Systemax no OS desktop
computer. I did really want 64-bit, but I tried the memory sticks, and tried
64-bit packages, all to no avail. Then my techie guy here told me, No, that I
had 32-bit.
Maybe that model motherboard was released with a BIOS
too old to properly
support the E2200 CPU, and needs a BIOS update. You can find the installed
BIOS version via BIOS setup, or from the POST screen, or use dmidecode.
Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard or need "techie" help. Fetch
and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction
of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD I
previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
One thing at a time ...
8:52 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 23:12 (UTC-0700):
Bios: American Megatrends v: 0407 date: 09/22/2008
William Morder composed on 2018-03-20 00:42 (UTC-0700):
Felix Miata wrote:
Curiouser and curiouser. I feel like I have gone down
the rabbit hole.
Sounds like it to me.
> Maybe that model motherboard was released with a
BIOS too old to properly
> support the E2200 CPU, and needs a BIOS update. You can find the installed
> BIOS version via BIOS setup, or from the POST screen, or use dmidecode.
# dmidecode bios-release-date
# dmidecode bios-version
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P5GCVM/HelpDesk_BIOS/ shows latest is v408
dated 2010-06-08, almost 2 years newer than yours.
> Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard
or need "techie" help. Fetch
> and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction
> of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
> Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for
the Knoppix DVD or CD I
> previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
One thing at a time ...
Jumping out of one hole into another isn't an answer. Exactly what were you
trying to install when your techie determined it didn't support 64-bit?
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
9:40 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 01:52:03 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 23:12
(UTC-0700):
Jumping out of one hole into another isn't an answer. Exactly what were you
trying to install when your techie determined it didn't support 64-bit?
He lives right here in my apartment building, although he is more reclusive
than J.D. Salinger, and only steps outside his door when there is a full
moon. At the time, we were working on this machine together. Of course, it is
yet possible that he could also be wrong here, but over all he has been very
reliable for what he knows; it's just that he seldom ventures farther than
the ice machine in our lobby. (For what it's worth, he finds pretty regular
work as a free-lance consultant, and I get lots of freebies.)
Be that as it may, when I did try to install 64-bit packages, and to use the
Debian 64-bit live DVD, my machine rejected it as the wrong architecture. So
I am a little confused, since I see the details that you point out, yet it
doesn't explain why my machine will not accept 64-bit installation discs or
software packages.
Bill
Bios: American Megatrends v: 0407 date:
09/22/2008
William Morder composed on 2018-03-20 00:42 (UTC-0700):
Felix Miata wrote:
Curiouser and curiouser. I feel like I have gone down the rabbit hole.
Sounds like it to me.
> Maybe that model motherboard was released
with a BIOS too old to
> properly support the E2200 CPU, and needs a BIOS update. You can find
> the installed BIOS version via BIOS setup, or from the POST screen, or
> use dmidecode.
# dmidecode bios-release-date
# dmidecode bios-version
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P5GCVM/HelpDesk_BIOS/ shows latest is
v408 dated 2010-06-08, almost 2 years newer than yours.
Testing
for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard or need "techie" help.
Fetch and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small
fraction of download size and time, and see what happens in clean /
install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD
I previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to
do.
One thing at a time ...
10:59 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
what if you gave in to conformity and installed ubuntu?
12:05 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 03:59:11 wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com wrote:
what if you gave in to conformity and installed
ubuntu?
Been there, done that. My computer ran like crap, kept doing things I didn't
want and couldn't control. I ran different versions of Ubuntu or Kubuntu from
2006 until last year, and liking it less and less as I went along.
For the most part, my computer is running great right now. There is this one
big problem, and the rest are just annoyances and bugs.
Bill
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21 Mar
21 Mar
5:08 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 13:05:15 William Morder wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 03:59:11
wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com wrote:
By ubuntu, i don't mean with unity/gnome
with trinity....
what if you gave in to conformity and installed
ubuntu?
Been there, done that. My computer ran like crap, kept doing things I
didn't want and couldn't control. I ran different versions of Ubuntu or
Kubuntu from 2006 until last year, and liking it less and less as I went
along.
For the most part, my computer is running great right now. There is this
one big problem, and the rest are just annoyances and bugs.
Bill
5:23 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 22:08:58 wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com wrote:
Don't even speak those names! I break out in hives just thinking about them.
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 13:05:15 William Morder
wrote:
> On Tuesday 20 March 2018 03:59:11 wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com wrote:
> > what if you gave in to conformity and installed ubuntu?
>
> Been there, done that. My computer ran like crap, kept doing things I
> didn't want and couldn't control. I ran different versions of Ubuntu or
> Kubuntu from 2006 until last year, and liking it less and less as I went
> along.
>
From Kubuntu 10.04 onwards, I kept trying to get TDE to work with Kubuntu, or
with any of the 'buntus. I always ended up with problems that made the
computer unusable. Then last year my motherboard got fried by a power surge,
so I determined to start over from scratch, and install some kind of
GNU/Linux, and settled on Debian as the most stable, with the most forks and
variants, and largest community.
For the most
part, my computer is running great right now. There is this
one big problem, and the rest are just annoyances and bugs.
Bill
By ubuntu, i don't mean with unity/gnome with trinity....
Again, been there, done that. I am really liking Debian in general (except for
systemd), and cannot imagine going back to Ubuntu or Kubuntu, not even with
TDE. I only want to make the transition to Devuan, which seems to stick to
the original principles of Debian more than Debian nowadays.
Only this issue has me worried. Otherwise, there are a lot of little bugs, but
I gradually track them down and resolve them.
Nice thing about Linux (regardless one's preference for what kind): it just
gets better and better over time, as one learns how to resolve problems;
whereas with the rotten Apple or Windoze, things start off good, and the
machine runs fast, then it's all downhill from there.
Bill
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8:46 p.m.
New subject: my vanishing root partition
William Morder wrote:
From Kubuntu 10.04 onwards, I kept trying to get TDE
to work with Kubuntu,
or with any of the 'buntus. I always ended up with problems that made the
computer unusable. Then last year my motherboard got fried by a power
surge, so I determined to start over from scratch, and install some kind
of GNU/Linux, and settled on Debian as the most stable, with the most
forks and variants, and largest community.
Usually you do clean minimal install of debian, add the trinity sources to
source.list and install trinity desktop (look at the installation guide)
As of systemd, I followed recommendations given on the debian-user list and
you need only to install sysv-rc sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils AFAIR. Then
automagicall init is used instead of systemd. I used to put
init=/lib/sysvinit/init into /etc/default/grub, but on the last machine
where I did the move, I skipped it and I still get init as process #1. I
have been using this for more than an year now and don't see why one should
go for devuan.
For normal average use root and /opt/trinity are about 10G, so if you give
20G for root partition, should be sufficient.
regards
11:04 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: my vanishing root partition
On Wednesday 21 March 2018 13:46:12 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
Yes, I believe somebody else mentioned something like this. I don't
necessarily want Devuan versus Debian, I just want to get sysvinit back, and
get rid of systemd. I already did some research in this, and believe I am
about ready to make the transition. I backed up everything, etc.
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere that it describes how to do
a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It
is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a
little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad
hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the
resources of the bigger names. I realize that redesigning the site is a big
job, but maybe a link (on the home page) to a site map would be a good place
to start?
For myself, I always used either the Trinity installation discs, or more
usually I would install one of the 'buntus, then use the guide for installing
TDE; so when I moved to Debian, I followed the same guide. If there were a
clearly marked place with instructions for minimal installation, I might have
saved myself a lot of time. Again, I believe that a lot of potential Trinity
users give up, because those who know already know, and they can only be
found here on the mailing list. Those who don't know (I mean the total n00bs)
don't know where to look, nor who to ask for help, and the questions
discussed on the mailing list are probably over their heads.
On my root partition, however, I have other stuff installed in opt, such as
Seamonkey and OpenOffice (don't like LibreOffice, as it messes up my
documents). Also, other software that I have tried out (such as the Vivaldi
browser) use the opt folder. (I don't currently use Vivaldi, but I like to
try out different things, then get rid of them again if I don't like them.)
So for my purposes, it's probably good to have a root partition that's larger
than normal, just so I have some wiggle room. I don't really use the home
partition for saving anything, anyway; everything there is moved to external
drives as soon as possible.
Also, thanks to the person who recommended the slacko live iso (based on
Slackware). It was very small (200+ mb), burned to a CD; also fast, and came
with many more programs than one would have guessed for such a small
live/installation disc. It also looked a little primitive or minimalistic,
but then I value speed and efficiency more than looks. I might try it out
when I do a dual-boot system.
Thanks for all the tips, both regarding my root partition, and also for the
transition from Debian to Devuan, or at least away from systemd and back to
sysvinit.
Bill
From Kubuntu 10.04 onwards, I kept trying to get
TDE to work with
Kubuntu, or with any of the 'buntus. I always ended up with problems that
made the computer unusable. Then last year my motherboard got fried by a
power surge, so I determined to start over from scratch, and install some
kind of GNU/Linux, and settled on Debian as the most stable, with the
most forks and variants, and largest community.
Usually you do clean minimal install of debian, add the trinity sources to
source.list and install trinity desktop (look at the installation guide)
As of systemd, I followed recommendations given on the debian-user list and
you need only to install sysv-rc sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils AFAIR. Then
automagicall init is used instead of systemd. I used to put
init=/lib/sysvinit/init into /etc/default/grub, but on the last machine
where I did the move, I skipped it and I still get init as process #1. I
have been using this for more than an year now and don't see why one should
go for devuan.
For normal average use root and /opt/trinity are about 10G, so if you give
20G for root partition, should be sufficient.
regards
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11:24 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-21 16:04 (UTC-0700):
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere
that it describes how to do
a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It
is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a
little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad
hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the
resources of the bigger names.
We went through this here a month ago. Doing a minimal installation is specific
to each Distro, not TDE, so "it" would have to be a bunch of pages, or a more
complicated page few or no single people could make alone.
For Stretch, the cmdline options I use on
http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::12201
that include string "install" will cause a truly minimal installation, to which
you need to add Xorg from Debian, to have a working base from which to run TDE.
If Devuan's installer is Debian-based, likely the same options would be
applicable. If not, Devuan's own docs, help forum and/or mailing list archive
ought to address such need.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
11:28 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-21 16:04 (UTC-0700):
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere
that it describes how to do
a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It
is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a
little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad
hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the
resources of the bigger names.
We went through this here a month ago. Doing a minimal installation is specific
to each Distro, not TDE, so "it" would have to be a bunch of pages, or a more
complicated page few or no single people could make alone.
For Stretch, the cmdline options I use on
http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::12201
that include string "install" will cause a truly minimal installation, to which
you need to add Xorg from Debian, to have a working base from which to run TDE.
If Devuan's installer is Debian-based, likely the same options would be
applicable. If not, Devuan's own docs, help forum and/or mailing list archive
ought to address such need.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
22 Mar
22 Mar
4:17 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] minimal installation preparation (was: my vanishing root partition)
Felix Miata composed on 2018-03-21 19:28 (UTC-0400):
William Morder composed on 2018-03-21 16:04
(UTC-0700):
> By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere
that it describes how to do
> a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It
> is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a
> little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad
> hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the
> resources of the bigger names.
We went through this here a month ago. Doing a minimal
installation is specific
to each Distro, not TDE, so "it" would have to be a bunch of pages, or a more
complicated page few or no single people could make alone.
For Stretch, the cmdline options I use on
http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::12201
that include string "install" will cause a truly minimal installation, to
which
you need to add Xorg from Debian, to have a working base from which to run TDE.
If Devuan's installer is Debian-based, likely the
same options would be
applicable. If not, Devuan's own docs, help forum and/or mailing list archive
ought to address such need.
Both Debian-based, and provides howto for minimal install:
https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/jessie-minimal-install
Instead of following the --include=nano instruction @Debootstrap, I would do
--include=mc, and have all its recommendeds at the outset.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
10:22 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] minimal installation
Felix Miata composed on 2018-03-22 00:17 (UTC-0400):
Felix Miata composed on 2018-03-21 19:28 (UTC-0400):
> William Morder composed on 2018-03-21 16:04
(UTC-0700):
>> By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is
nowhere that it describes how to do
>> a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It
>> is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a
>> little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad
>> hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the
>> resources of the bigger names.
> We went through this here a month ago. Doing a
minimal installation is specific
> to each Distro, not TDE, so "it" would have to be a bunch of pages, or a
more
> complicated page few or no single people could make alone.
> For Stretch, the cmdline options I use on
> http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::12201
> that include string "install" will cause a truly minimal installation, to
which
> you need to add Xorg from Debian, to have a working base from which to run TDE.
> If Devuan's installer is Debian-based, likely
the same options would be
> applicable. If not, Devuan's own docs, help forum and/or mailing list archive
> ought to address such need.
Both Debian-based, and provides howto for minimal
install:
https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/jessie-minimal-install
Instead of following the --include=nano instruction
@Debootstrap, I would do
--include=mc, and have all its recommendeds at the outset.
I just installed Devuan 2beta from a NETINST cd, with basic TDE, onto a 5.6GB
partition on an old AMD Sempron 64 with 2GB RAM. Current space consumed is 29% of /.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
8:47 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Wednesday 21 March 2018 16:28:43 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-21 16:04
(UTC-0700):
Yes, well ... I can do a minimal installation myself, if I choose, when I have
an available Internet connection.
I am interested in seeing more people come to use Trinity, because I believe
that that is the only way to get TDE accepted into the repositories for
Debian, Ubuntu, etc. - that is, into the mainstream.
Otherwise, if you want to keep Trinity as a private club, open only to a few,
then keep on doing what you are doing. If, on the other hand, you want to
keep using Trinity into the foreseeable future (and not be forced to change
to other DEs), then I believe it is in the interest of all of us to make
these methods a little more accessible to the general public.
Maybe other people here are not aware that there is a widespread prejudice -
or perhaps smear campaign - against TDE-Trinity "out there"? The notion is
supposed to be that the KDE3 desktop was long ago discarded by the mainstream
Linux community, and that any attempt to revive it as TDE is both absurd and
pathetic: as though we were an Amish community of computer users; or perhaps,
digitally-impaired, cranky old-timers. (Apologies to any Amish geeks or
cranky old-timers out there who may be reading!)
By the way, if I can help, I am a willing volunteer. I am not complaining
about TDE; I just don't want to be forced to return to some other, lesser
desktop, merely due to lack of public interest.
Bill
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is
nowhere that it describes how
to do a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to
TDE. It is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned,
the site is a little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are
added on an ad hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer
project without the resources of the bigger names.
We went through this here a month ago. Doing a minimal installation is
specific to each Distro, not TDE, so "it" would have to be a bunch of
pages, or a more complicated page few or no single people could make alone. For Stretch, the cmdline options I use on
http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::12201
that include string "install" will cause a truly minimal installation, to
which you need to add Xorg from Debian, to have a working base from which
to run TDE.
If Devuan's installer is Debian-based, likely the same options would be
applicable. If not, Devuan's own docs, help forum and/or mailing list
archive ought to address such need.
21 Mar
21 Mar
11:38 p.m.
New subject: my vanishing root partition
William Morder wrote:
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere
that it describes how
to do a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to
TDE. It is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned,
the site is a little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are
added on an ad hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer
project without the resources of the bigger names. I realize that
redesigning the site is a big job, but maybe a link (on the home page) to
a site map would be a good place to start?
installing the base system is not part of TDE.
It is very simple, I usually pick up the debian network installation disk or
usb image and when asked for system type I do not select anything except
basic
there many online step by step guides - example
https://www.pcsuggest.com/debian-minimal-install-guide/
For myself, I always used either the Trinity
installation discs, or more
usually I would install one of the 'buntus, then use the guide for
installing TDE; so when I moved to Debian, I followed the same guide. If
there were a clearly marked place with instructions for minimal
installation, I might have saved myself a lot of time. Again, I believe
that a lot of potential Trinity users give up, because those who know
already know, and they can only be found here on the mailing list. Those
who don't know (I mean the total n00bs) don't know where to look, nor who
to ask for help, and the questions discussed on the mailing list are
probably over their heads.
look at step 13 "Now select which components you want to install, choose
only standard system utilities if you want a minimal install"
On my root partition, however, I have other stuff
installed in opt, such
as Seamonkey and OpenOffice (don't like LibreOffice, as it messes up my
documents). Also, other software that I have tried out (such as the
Vivaldi browser) use the opt folder. (I don't currently use Vivaldi, but I
like to try out different things, then get rid of them again if I don't
like them.) So for my purposes, it's probably good to have a root
partition that's larger than normal, just so I have some wiggle room. I
don't really use the home partition for saving anything, anyway;
everything there is moved to external drives as soon as possible.
Backup that directory, when installing assign dedicated partition ( trinity
requires about 1G, I would count with 2G for trinity) so based on your
current size you can easily calculate the space.
If you have trinity already there, you can remove it (rm -rf ) after
restoring from backup and before installing new trinity desktop.
On my desktop root is 20G with 6.7G used, opt is bigger with a lot of custom
stuff, but as mentioned trinity would cope with anything above 2G very well
I put all of this on luks and LVM and now even installer can do it right.
regards
22 Mar
22 Mar
8:27 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
On Wednesday 21 March 2018 16:38:50 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
Does anybody here make /opt a separate partition? Since so many programs use
it that are better not to run with admin privileges, it seems better not to
put /opt in the root partition. But then I wonder if installations would go
awry for those packages that use /opt. (Not only TDE, but also other
programs, such as Seamonkey, OpenOffice, etc., use /opt for installation.)
Bill
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is
nowhere that it describes how
to do a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to
TDE. It is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned,
the site is a little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are
added on an ad hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer
project without the resources of the bigger names. I realize that
redesigning the site is a big job, but maybe a link (on the home page) to
a site map would be a good place to start?
installing the base system is not part of TDE.
It is very simple, I usually pick up the debian network installation disk
or usb image and when asked for system type I do not select anything except
basic
there many online step by step guides - example
https://www.pcsuggest.com/debian-minimal-install-guide/
For myself, I always used either the Trinity
installation discs, or more
usually I would install one of the 'buntus, then use the guide for
installing TDE; so when I moved to Debian, I followed the same guide. If
there were a clearly marked place with instructions for minimal
installation, I might have saved myself a lot of time. Again, I believe
that a lot of potential Trinity users give up, because those who know
already know, and they can only be found here on the mailing list. Those
who don't know (I mean the total n00bs) don't know where to look, nor who
to ask for help, and the questions discussed on the mailing list are
probably over their heads.
look at step 13 "Now select which components you want to install, choose
only standard system utilities if you want a minimal install"
On my root partition, however, I have other stuff
installed in opt, such
as Seamonkey and OpenOffice (don't like LibreOffice, as it messes up my
documents). Also, other software that I have tried out (such as the
Vivaldi browser) use the opt folder. (I don't currently use Vivaldi, but
I like to try out different things, then get rid of them again if I don't
like them.) So for my purposes, it's probably good to have a root
partition that's larger than normal, just so I have some wiggle room. I
don't really use the home partition for saving anything, anyway;
everything there is moved to external drives as soon as possible.
Backup that directory, when installing assign dedicated partition ( trinity
requires about 1G, I would count with 2G for trinity) so based on your
current size you can easily calculate the space.
If you have trinity already there, you can remove it (rm -rf ) after
restoring from backup and before installing new trinity desktop.
On my desktop root is 20G with 6.7G used, opt is bigger with a lot of
custom stuff, but as mentioned trinity would cope with anything above 2G
very well
I put all of this on luks and LVM and now even installer can do it right.
regards
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8:36 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
Am Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
[...]
Does anybody here make /opt a separate partition? Since so many programs use
it that are better not to run with admin privileges, it seems better not to
put /opt in the root partition. But then I wonder if installations would go
awry for those packages that use /opt. (Not only TDE, but also other
programs, such as Seamonkey, OpenOffice, etc., use /opt for installation.)
beeing on the root-partition has nothing to do with admin privileges.
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
8:43 p.m.
New subject: my vanishing root partition
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
+1
and I personally have my /opt on dedicated logical volume - it is easier to
control or reinstall if needed, or backup etc.
[...]
Does anybody here make /opt a separate partition? Since so many programs
use it that are better not to run with admin privileges, it seems better
not to put /opt in the root partition. But then I wonder if installations
would go awry for those packages that use /opt. (Not only TDE, but also
other programs, such as Seamonkey, OpenOffice, etc., use /opt for
installation.)
beeing on the root-partition has nothing to do with admin privileges.
8:55 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
On Thursday 22 March 2018 13:36:49 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
There is also the problem that, on reinstallation, the /opt folder (and any
configurations or modifications) will necessarily be overwritten. I would
like to prevent /opt from being overwritten, just as I do with my /home
folder.
Bill
[...]
Does anybody here make /opt a separate partition? Since so many programs
use it that are better not to run with admin privileges, it seems better
not to put /opt in the root partition. But then I wonder if installations
would go awry for those packages that use /opt. (Not only TDE, but also
other programs, such as Seamonkey, OpenOffice, etc., use /opt for
installation.)
beeing on the root-partition has nothing to do with admin privileges.
23 Mar
23 Mar
11:33 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-22 13:55 (UTC-0700):
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> beeing on the root-partition has nothing to do
with admin privileges.
There is also the problem that, on reinstallation, the
/opt folder (and any
configurations or modifications) will necessarily be overwritten. I would
like to prevent /opt from being overwritten, just as I do with my /home
folder.
Put the things _you_ put in /opt/ instead in /usr/local/, make /usr/local/ a
separate filesystem, and you needn't have that problem, unless maybe you're an
AntiX user. The only things in /opt/ on my systems are things the package
manager decides belong there, typically printer drivers, KDE3, or LO.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
24 Mar
24 Mar
4:04 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Friday 23 March 2018 16:33:04 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-22 13:55
(UTC-0700):
I don't choose to put anything there. When I install, the package manager
installs these items in that folder. (Seamonkey used to be installed like
other packages, but now it is separately maintained on SourceForge; and now
it gets installed in /opt. Likewise OpenOffice, now that Apache maintains it
separately, is installed there.)
My question is whether the package manager will put them there if I create a
separate partition for /opt. In any case, little tweaks have got them running
better.
Another question: Why are program files and folders for Icecat now installed
in /usr/lib/icecat - instead of in /home/<USER>/.mozilla/icecat (similar to
other Mozilla browsers)? I had to change permissions to get extensions to
work, or even to install; but it's not the first place one looks for this
stuff.
Bill
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Put the things _you_ put in /opt/ instead in /usr/local/, make /usr/local/
a separate filesystem, and you needn't have that problem, unless maybe
you're an AntiX user. The only things in /opt/ on my systems are things the
package manager decides belong there, typically printer drivers, KDE3, or
LO. beeing on the root-partition has nothing to do
with admin privileges.
There is also the problem that, on reinstallation, the /opt folder (and
any configurations or modifications) will necessarily be overwritten. I
would like to prevent /opt from being overwritten, just as I do with my
/home folder.
5:01 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-23 21:04 (UTC-0700):
My question is whether the package manager will put
them there if I create a
separate partition for /opt. In any case, little tweaks have got them running
better.
Config "tweaks" belong either in /etc/ or in ~. /opt/ shouldn't be touched
manually any more than /usr/lib/ or /usr/bin/.
Whether or not /opt/ is a separate filesystem the package manager has no
knowledge of, unless it's reading /etc/fstab, which I very seriously doubt.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
12:30 p.m.
New subject: my vanishing root partition
William Morder wrote:
I don't choose to put anything there. When I
install, the package manager
installs these items in that folder. (Seamonkey used to be installed like
other packages, but now it is separately maintained on SourceForge; and
now it gets installed in /opt. Likewise OpenOffice, now that Apache
maintains it separately, is installed there.)
I was thinking a while if I should answer this - I mean, start looking for
answer yourself as I don't feel to be a babysitter or put questions forward
if you search for an answer for lets say 30 minutes and can not find any
usable.
Of course everybody is free to ask or answer ... but I think you are asking
too much without listening and this is the motivation to write this,
because I told you to remove all that was not custom installed from /opt,
but you talk too much and listen too little. This is pure chaos.
Ask a definite question, complete the task and close the topic, after this
open new topic.
From the length of the discussion I can conclude that the question was vague
and it went off topic too much.
Just close this question with "my vanishing root partition" and open another
on how to proceed with /opt on new install
regards
2:58 p.m.
New subject: how to ask questions
On Saturday 24 March 2018 05:30:49 deloptes wrote:
I was thinking a while if I should answer this - I
mean, start looking for
answer yourself as I don't feel to be a babysitter or put questions forward
if you search for an answer for lets say 30 minutes and can not find any
usable.
Of course everybody is free to ask or answer ... but I think you are asking
too much without listening and this is the motivation to write this,
because I told you to remove all that was not custom installed from /opt,
but you talk too much and listen too little. This is pure chaos.
Ask a definite question, complete the task and close the topic, after this
open new topic.
From the length of the discussion I can conclude that the question was
vague and it went off topic too much.
Just close this question with "my vanishing root partition" and open
another on how to proceed with /opt on new install
regards
Actually, I've been done with "my vanishing root partition" for
several days
now. Other people have answered, and so I continue the thread, and ought to
have stopped when it went off-topic.
You might not have noticed, but I've been more or less offline for most of the
past week, while rebuilding my system. I made a few replies when I briefly
came back online.
I always search online first for answers to my tech questions, usually for
weeks or even months, for how to resolve problems, and otherwise I have lots
of books on Linux. Only after I have failed to find answers do I ask here on
the mailing list. My problem is not lack of searching, but rather that I
don't know quite how to ask the questions, because I am not really a geek. I
have only made myself into a kind of semi-demi-geek out of necessity, because
I cannot do otherwise.
About July or August of 2017 I installed Debian and Trinity, and I've
participated actively in the mailing list only since about November 2017,
once I had got TDE up and running fairly smoothly. Now I am just trying to
iron out the kinks.
I always ran KDE3, and haven't found a DE to compare with it, but changing to
Debian and Trinity takes a little more effort than running a ready-made
system. And by the way, I think the developers are doing a great job, and
I've watched Trinity improve over the years; I only wish it were easier to
find information. Then you wouldn't be bothered by my questions, as I would
rather read than to have exchanges like this.
In hopes that I might learn something, if I picked the brains of people who
know more than I, I put my questions to the group. Now, if you could kindly
tell me how properly to ask questions, I would be most obliged. I don't know
how else to learn but to ask, and I only ask when I haven't been able to find
the answers on my own.
"Those who know do not speak,
and those who speak do not know."
Regarding listening: I tried all the applicable suggestions that other put
forward, in trying to sort out this problem. However, I will save my specific
questions for a separate post under a different heading.
You are right, though, about it veering off-topic. Sorry about that, and I
ought to have either put the matter to rest or made a different heading; but
again, I was in the middle of rebuilding my system, you see.
I am just trying to learn, and the only way I know how to ask is just to ask.
Bill
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22 Mar
22 Mar
7:47 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: my vanishing root partition
Am Mittwoch, 21. März 2018 schrieb deloptes:
[...]
As of systemd, I followed recommendations given on the debian-user list and
you need only to install sysv-rc sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils AFAIR. Then
automagicall init is used instead of systemd. I used to put
init=/lib/sysvinit/init into /etc/default/grub, but on the last machine
where I did the move, I skipped it and I still get init as process #1. I
have been using this for more than an year now and don't see why one should
go for devuan.
That was true on jessie. But now systemd has infected lots of vital systems in debian. You
you cannot have a systemd-free debian any more - that's where devuan comes in :-)
Nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
8:03 a.m.
New subject: my vanishing root partition
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
That was true on jessie. But now systemd has infected
lots of vital
systems in debian. You you cannot have a systemd-free debian any more -
that's where devuan comes in :-)
IMO the problem is having it as proc #1
If it is called from time to time by an application that needs it, I don't
care - it never did any harm so far.
8:52 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: my vanishing root partition
On Thursday 22 March 2018 00:47:30 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 21. M�rz 2018 schrieb deloptes:
This was my understanding, as well, from reading Debian/Devuan pages; but
perhaps I am not so well-informed. I was intending to migrate to Devuan more
based on principle (because, in principle, they are more Debian than Debian).
Also, the Devuan community seems to be very well-organized, by comparison to
other distros; especially considering the fact that Devuan was only forked in
(I think) 2014.
Bill
[...]
As of systemd, I followed recommendations given on the debian-user list
and you need only to install sysv-rc sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils AFAIR.
Then automagicall init is used instead of systemd. I used to put
init=/lib/sysvinit/init into /etc/default/grub, but on the last machine
where I did the move, I skipped it and I still get init as process #1. I
have been using this for more than an year now and don't see why one
should go for devuan.
That was true on jessie. But now systemd has infected lots of vital systems
in debian. You you cannot have a systemd-free debian any more - that's
where devuan comes in :-)
Nik
23 Mar
23 Mar
12:12 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: my vanishing root partition
On Thursday 22 March 2018 12:52:15 pm William Morder wrote:
snip
. I was intending to migrate to Devuan
more based on principle (because, in principle, they are more Debian than
Debian).
snip
Bill
check Debians genome, that should clear things up :-)
greg
20 Mar
20 Mar
4:43 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 21:18 (UTC-0700):
Yes, running Debian Jessie 8.10 or whatever is the
most recent update. I was
wondering about how to format root. I am used to ext2 for root partition from
older Ubuntu versions, but I see everybody using ext3 or ext4 now, so this
might be part of the problem.
Formatting / is usually a default option in any Linux installer, but they tend
to format the same type, which in your case is not desirable. Just be sure to
specify / get formatted and /home not.
It is 32-bit because I installed a new motherboard,
and that is all that was
available for cheap. I've always run 64-bit before.
Any quick commands to find out CPU, chipset and
gfxchip? And yes, some of it
is old (I did say it's a Frankenstein), but my motherboard is pretty new.
lspci
or
inxi -v4 -m
should do well enough.
cat /proc/cpuinfo
can be misleading to the uninitiated, but does report whether limited to 32-bit
or not.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
3:40 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 20:00:09 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
On Monday 19 March 2018 19:42:36 Nick Koretsky wrote:
Well, than you have two different issues at hand. Two deal with a space
that is reclaimed by reboot, run (when some space already gone)
lsof -nP +L1
and look for anything suspicious here. Also, if /tmp is on real disk (not
tmpfs), it is also a primal suspect for a space that is reclaimed by reboot.
For an issue with a long term lost space, the only thing i cab suggest it
to setup a cron to run something like
du -xcbd2 / > $(date +\%j%H)
--
Nick Koretsky (nick.koretsky(a)gmail.com)
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:28:24 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You see one of a
possible reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some
daemon misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence one reason for
rebooting, when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping issue
of space disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time.
>
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1)
> partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb,
> 600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes
> down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or
> done anything different.
I may have missed that but it seems no one have asked it in the
thread
- did you reboot you system during this time or is it a continuous
uptime?
Yes, I did reboot. I probably was rebooting my system every few days,
just because my Firefox seems to be interfering with my network
connection. And while I was learning the differences in a Debian
system (in contrast to Ubuntu), I also rebooted constantly, because I
was constantly messing up my system. For the past few months, though,
my system has been fairly stable, and I haven't been downloading and
installing new packages.
Right now the problems are: 1) my vanishing partition, 2) why Firefox
messes up my network connection, and 3) minor bugs.
Nowadays I might go a week or two without rebooting, unless I end up
with no space left on my root partition.
3:52 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 20:40:00 Nick Koretsky wrote:
Well, than you have two different issues at hand. Two deal with a space
that is reclaimed by reboot, run (when some space already gone)
lsof -nP +L1
and look for anything suspicious here. All entries are marked as deleted. I could
give you the whole list, but it is
very long, and besides I am trying not to give out my user name, and other
specific details. Anything I ought to look for, if all items are already
marked as deleted?
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You
see one of a
possible reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some
daemon misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence one reason for
rebooting, when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping issue
of space disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time. Also, if /tmp is on real disk (not
tmpfs), it is also a primal suspect for a space that is reclaimed by
reboot.
I did look in /tmp, but there is nothing much there; although the presence of
a systemd entry does bother me - but maybe this is by design.
For an issue with a long term lost space, the only
thing i cab suggest it
to setup a cron to run something like
du -xcbd2 / > $(date +\%j%H)
Running the cron job now.
Bill
4:31 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 20:52:44 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Well, than you have two different issues at hand. Two deal with a space
that is reclaimed by reboot, run (when some space already gone)
lsof -nP +L1
and look for anything suspicious here. All entries are marked as deleted. I
could give you the whole list, but
it is very long, and besides I am trying not to give out my user name,
and other specific details. Anything I ought to look for, if all items
are already marked as deleted?
This command list "deleted" files which are not yet actually deleted, only
references to them are removed. They are still opened by some program and
will use disk space until program closes them. Strictly speaking there
should be no such files at all, but bad programing practices and simple
errors exists, so actual situation is not as rosy. Browsers, especially
chrome, are notorious for this shit, but the files they used should mostly
be in /home or /run Look for any files that are located on root in this
list. BTW, i have just run this command on my machine and palemoon have
are 80MB deleted file in /temp open.... as an example of possible things.
Oops send previous without message without finishing. Accumulate output
from this cron job (at hourly interval) for a few days, than diff them to
pinpoint where and when directory sizes are growing.
--
Nick Koretsky (nick.koretsky(a)gmail.com)
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You
see one of a
possible reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If
some daemon misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence one reason for
rebooting, when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping
issue of space disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time. Also, if /tmp
is on real disk (not
tmpfs), it is also a primal suspect for a space that is reclaimed by
reboot.
I did look in /tmp, but there is nothing much there; although the
presence of a systemd entry does bother me - but maybe this is by design.
For an issue with a long term lost space, the
only thing i cab suggest
it to setup a cron to run something like
du -xcbd2 / > $(date +\%j%H)
Running the cron job now.
1:23 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 05:10:15AM -0700, William Morder wrote:
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root
partition keep
disappearing?
When you say root partition, I assume you mean that /home is a separate
partition.
Check for anything unusual in the logs. What do they say?
One you might not think of is .xsession-errors, which is normally in
your home directory. If you are logged into a GUI as root, you could
have /root/.xsession-errors too. I once had one grow large enough to
fill my home partition in a matter of hours. I don't remember what was
causing it, sorry, but if you find the .xsession-errors file is huge,
you can always read it and see what it says.
(I'm assuming the systemd hasn't eliminated .xsession-errors, like
they've eliminated everything else pure and good in the world...)
Check for file system corruption.
https://superuser.com/questions/401217/how-to-check-root-partition-with-fsck
Run smartctrl to check the disk. Suppose your root partition is on
/dev/sda, I would run something like:
# basic health check
smartctl -H -d ata /dev/sda
# short test
smartctl -t short -C -d ata /dev/sda
smartctl -a /dev/sda
smartctl isn't the easiest or most intuitive program in the world, make
sure you read some tutorials first. Try this one:
https://www.thomas-krenn.com/en/wiki/SMART_tests_with_smartctl
If you're running solid state disks, there's probably no point: in
general, they either work, or die, with nothing in between.
If you've eliminated everything else -- emptied all caches, no file
system corruption or bad disks, no unusual entries in the logs etc --
then you may have to consider the possibility that you've been hacked,
despite all your security. If somebody is using your computer for
bitcoin mining, that might do it: the block chain exceeded 100GB a few
years ago.
http://www.coinfox.info/news/6700-bitcoin-blockchain-size-reaches-100-gb
Yes, that's 100 gigabytes. Or simply storing their warez on your
computer, like it's 1999 again :-)
--
Steve
2:40 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:23:15 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 05:10:15AM -0700, William
Morder wrote:
My /dev/sda is set up like so:
sda1 /
sda2 swap
sda3 /home
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my
root partition keep
disappearing?
When you say root partition, I assume you mean that /home is a separate
partition.
Check for anything unusual in the logs. What do they
say?
Checking logs will take a while, but will get to that. I will look
into .xsession-errors first. I sometimes log into konqueror as root, just for
troubleshooting, but I don't leave it open.
One you might not think of is .xsession-errors, which
is normally in
your home directory. If you are logged into a GUI as root, you could
have /root/.xsession-errors too. I once had one grow large enough to
fill my home partition in a matter of hours. I don't remember what was
causing it, sorry, but if you find the .xsession-errors file is huge,
you can always read it and see what it says.
(I'm assuming the systemd hasn't eliminated .xsession-errors, like
they've eliminated everything else pure and good in the world...)
Yes, systemd is a sure sign that Doomsday is approaching:
https://web.archive.org/web/20180219182020/https://www.infoworld.com/articl…
Check for file system corruption.
https://superuser.com/questions/401217/how-to-check-root-partition-with-fsc
k
Run smartctrl to check the disk. Suppose your root partition is on
/dev/sda, I would run something like:
# basic health check
smartctl -H -d ata /dev/sda
# short test
smartctl -t short -C -d ata /dev/sda
smartctl -a /dev/sda
smartctl isn't the easiest or most intuitive program in the world, make
sure you read some tutorials first. Try this one:
https://www.thomas-krenn.com/en/wiki/SMART_tests_with_smartctl
If you're running solid state disks, there's probably no point: in
general, they either work, or die, with nothing in between.
If you've eliminated everything else -- emptied all caches, no file
system corruption or bad disks, no unusual entries in the logs etc --
then you may have to consider the possibility that you've been hacked,
despite all your security. If somebody is using your computer for
bitcoin mining, that might do it: the block chain exceeded 100GB a few
years ago.
http://www.coinfox.info/news/6700-bitcoin-blockchain-size-reaches-100-gb
Yes, that's 100 gigabytes. Or simply storing their warez on your
computer, like it's 1999 again :-)
I did have a problem where Firefox kept freezing my computer, or disconnecting
me; but once I changed to Icecat, it my computer has been purring like a
kitten.
8:14 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:23:15 Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
If you've eliminated everything else -- emptied all caches, no file
system corruption or bad disks, no unusual entries in the logs etc --
then you may have to consider the possibility that you've been hacked,
despite all your security. If somebody is using your computer for
bitcoin mining, that might do it: the block chain exceeded 100GB a few
years ago.
http://www.coinfox.info/news/6700-bitcoin-blockchain-size-reaches-100-gb
Yes, that's 100 gigabytes. Or simply storing their warez on your
computer, like it's 1999 again :-)
I am checking out the other links concerning tests to run. I'm pretty sure my
hard disk is not corrupted; I run fsck fairly often. And I doubt it is
bitcoin mining (although I only know bitcoin from the defensive position).
I not only block (or attempt to block) bitcoin miners, but also modify my
hosts file to block all ads, and disable ipv6, etc.
Richard Stallman keeps telling me that the proper word here is "cracked"
not "hacked"; and I agree, though I know everybody, including myself, says
hacked for both good and bad. Anyway, if I have been cracked or hacked, it is
either through brute force, or somebody got physical access to my computer
(which I lock down when I leave the house); or maybe by somebody with a lot
of money and resources.
Otherwise, my attacker has impressive skills, and his/her/their talents are
wasted on low-hanging fruit like whatever is on my computer. They really
ought to consider aiming for bigger targets, as I will just crawl back under
my rock again.
Bill
It could be that there is somebody out there who found a way in, but I
24 Mar
24 Mar
3:18 p.m.
New subject: partitioning - opt & etc
Okay, so new thread!
As I was repartitioning my hard drive, I was trying to find out the lowdown on
this /opt folder. This is a new thing since I have started running Trinity; I
never noticed it before when running Kubuntu. Only after I started running
the Trinity desktop, that is when I noticed the installation to /opt; and
only then I noticed that other programs were installing in that folder.
A friend told me that he creates separate partitions for both /opt and /etc;
and then, too, I noticed that the new Icecat browser does something even
weirder, which is to install in /usr/lib/icecat, rather than (like other
Mozilla browsers) in /home/<USER>/.mozilla/.
My question is really more or less the same for all these items. I want to be
able, once I have configured them as I wish, just to clone that directory, so
that I don't have to keep reinventing the wheel, over and over again.
When I tried to research the /opt folder, I didn't find out much. If I create
a separate partition, will I be able to leave it untouched like my home
folder? Will Trinity (and other programs) automatically be installed there?
I suppose could just back it up regularly, then overwrite it once I have
reinstalled, but I would like to treat it like my /home/<USER>/ folder, and
leave it intact.
The same with Icecat: it seems to run better than Firefox/Iceweasel, but to
install everything in /usr/lib/icecat seems very irregular. Is there some way
to get it to install elsewhere? for example, in /opt?
Bill
6:56 p.m.
New subject: partitioning - opt & etc
William Morder wrote:
Okay, so new thread!
Thats good.
You can read about partitioning your drive
https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/apc.html.en
It is minimalistic but it gives you an impression
So what I usually do is having two partitions (assume you install
on /dev/sda)
/dev/sda1 about 512MB format ext3 or ext4 will be boot partition
/dev/sda2 the rest of the drive
when installing I choose to encrypt (luks) /dev/sda2
then create logical volumes on the encrypted partition. Typically:
/dev/mapper/G500lvm-data
/dev/mapper/G500lvm-home
/dev/mapper/G500lvm-opt
/dev/mapper/G500lvm-root
/dev/mapper/G500lvm-swap
you've got some recommendations about root and opt - the rest depends on you
swap is at least 1x or 2x the memory you have. I choose the maximum memory
size I can place into the machine (you never know)
and then install as mentioned before: first minimal debian and then TDE
good luck
7:55 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] browser user data (was: partitioning - opt & etc)
William Morder composed on 2018-03-24 08:18 (UTC-0700):
A friend told me that he creates separate partitions
for both /opt and /etc;
and then, too, I noticed that the new Icecat browser does something even
weirder, which is to install in /usr/lib/icecat, rather than (like other
Mozilla browsers) in /home/<USER>/.mozilla/.
Mozilla browser *profiles* (user data) traditionally go in ~/.mozilla
(/home/username/.mozilla). On my systems this is Firefox and SeaMonkey.
Thunderbird's go in ~/.thunderbird.
Mozilla predates other common GUI web browsers by a bunch of years, when users'
appdata went in $HOME by convention. Newer browsers, eg $HOME/.config/chromium,
have adopted a superceding convention, $HOME/.config/appname/.
/usr/lib/appname is where most apps go, main exception being those that
inexplicably decide on /opt/ instead.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
16 Apr
16 Apr
1:03 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] partitioning - opt & etc
http://www.linuxbase.org/betaspecs/fhs/fhs/index.html
"/opt is reserved for the installation of add-on application software
packages.
A package to be installed in /opt must locate its static files in a
separate /opt/<package> or /opt/<provider> directory tree, where
<package>
is a name that describes the software package and <provider> is the
provider's LANANA registered name."
"/usr/lib includes object files and libraries. On some systems, it may
also include internal binaries that are not intended to be executed
directly by users or shell scripts.
Applications may use a single subdirectory under /usr/lib. If an
application uses a subdirectory, all architecture-dependent data
exclusively used by the application must be placed within that
subdirectory."
As for partitioning your drive, I don't do separate partitions for /etc
/opt /home. It has been decades since I even heard of anyone recommending
doing that.
-LTH
On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 11:18 AM, William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com>
wrote:
Okay, so new thread!
As I was repartitioning my hard drive, I was trying to find out the
lowdown on
this /opt folder. This is a new thing since I have started running
Trinity; I
never noticed it before when running Kubuntu. Only after I started running
the Trinity desktop, that is when I noticed the installation to /opt; and
only then I noticed that other programs were installing in that folder.
A friend told me that he creates separate partitions for both /opt and
/etc;
and then, too, I noticed that the new Icecat browser does something even
weirder, which is to install in /usr/lib/icecat, rather than (like other
Mozilla browsers) in /home/<USER>/.mozilla/.
My question is really more or less the same for all these items. I want to
be
able, once I have configured them as I wish, just to clone that directory,
so
that I don't have to keep reinventing the wheel, over and over again.
When I tried to research the /opt folder, I didn't find out much. If I
create
a separate partition, will I be able to leave it untouched like my home
folder? Will Trinity (and other programs) automatically be installed there?
I suppose could just back it up regularly, then overwrite it once I have
reinstalled, but I would like to treat it like my /home/<USER>/ folder, and
leave it intact.
The same with Icecat: it seems to run better than Firefox/Iceweasel, but to
install everything in /usr/lib/icecat seems very irregular. Is there some
way
to get it to install elsewhere? for example, in /opt?
Bill
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22 May
22 May
7:42 a.m.
New subject: my rebellious lower panel
Another recurring bug: Now, icons, applets, etc., move around, even after I
lock the lower panel on the screen, even after rebooting, even after I have
gone through several sessions and reboots. Sometimes icons and applets appear
on top of one another, or disappear altogether. I unlock the panel and drag
everything back to where I want it, lock it again, then everything seems to
settle down for a session. And when I reboot, it's all messed-up again.
Everything was fine for months on end, until I made the mistake of trying to
nudge some icons slightly to create a little more empty space. (I even
restored them to their previous state, and relocked the panel, but that
didn't work.)
I've enclosed some screenshots as attachments, so that everybody can see how I
want it to look (right) and how it gets messed-up (wrong). Note that there
are several marked "wrong"; and that these kept moving round even though I
had the panel locked at the time.
By the way, I am running Debian Jessie 8.8.0 (upgraded to 8.10 or whatever),
and Trinity R14.0.4.
Any suggestions or observations will be appreciated. Thanks!
Bill
8 Jun
8 Jun
2:18 a.m.
New subject: can burn DVDs but not CDs
I'm not sure if this is problem that specifically concerns Trinity. I
generally burn CDs and DVDs with k3b, and almost never use any other program.
(I'm using the k3b-trinity packages.) I considered trying to use the
non-Trinity version of k3b, or to boot into a KDE desktop instead of TDE, to
see if that works. However, I also tried with Brasero, and had similar
problems, so I'm guessing that the problem is not just with Trinity.
No problem at all burning DVDs, including dual-layer. (I don't know about
Blu-Ray, but I don't use them.) Whenever I try to burn CDs, however, k3b goes
through the whole process, creating image, normalisation, etc., then crashes
before it actually burns the CD.
I ought to say that these are audio CDs. I've tried burning flac and wav files
to CD, both with the same bad results. Also, a few weeks back, I tried to
copy a large collection of mp3 files to a DVD as a data disc, but the program
crashed before it could complete, and ruined the disc. I don't know if that
incident could be related or not.
It occurs to me to try to write a CD from the command-line, using growisofs or
the like, but I've never done that before.
I'm running Debian Jessie 8.8.0 and Trinity r14.04.
Any help or observations would be appreciated.
Bill
13 Jun
13 Jun
3:31 a.m.
New subject: a perfectly good system shot to hell
Actually, it's running sort of okay, which is surprising, considering that I
cannot find my wlan0 interface, yet I can still connect to the internet and
send and receive emails; except that, as far as my system is concerned, I am
not actually connected, even though I really am connected.
It all started when I couldn't download packages from the repository at
security.debian.org. After doing a little research, I discovered that
security packages will no longer be supported for Jessie after (I think) 17
June 2018. And I had been putting off upgrading to Stretch, and furthermore I
really wanted to switch to Devuan. So now I've done it, but there are a few
bugs. I was worried that my system would be unusable, but instead it is just
somewhat crippled.
So my process was first to change repositories in my sources.list, from Jessie
to Stretch, then I upgraded. Then I changed sources.list again to Devuan
Ascii, and upgraded yet again.
Now my network managers and other network-aware programs cannot recognize
wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the shared network in
my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even bother suggesting that
I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to plug in *to*: it's wifi or
nothing.
I seem to recall that other systems (maybe Stretch?) used different names for
some of the same interfaces, so it might just be a problem of renaming my
wlan0 interface to something else. Only I can't find any other names.
Also I cannot use Tor, or anything over proxy servers. As I said, the problem
here seems to be that my system cannot find the interface that I use to
connect. I can see activity over what appears to be wlan0, yet I cannot
activate wlan0 either through a gui program, or by command-line, or by
changing the lines in
/etc/network/interfaces
... so any help here would be appreciated. It seems to be a simple basic
problem, since I still have a running system with some kind of network.
But yay! I have got Devuan Ascii running on my system, so I imagine the rest
of my problems as just fine tuning.
Please help!
Bill
6:35 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On 12 June 2018 at 20:31, William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Actually, it's running sort of okay, which is
surprising, considering that I
cannot find my wlan0 interface, yet I can still connect to the internet and
send and receive emails; except that, as far as my system is concerned, I am
not actually connected, even though I really am connected.
It all started when I couldn't download packages from the repository at
security.debian.org. After doing a little research, I discovered that
security packages will no longer be supported for Jessie after (I think) 17
June 2018. And I had been putting off upgrading to Stretch, and furthermore I
really wanted to switch to Devuan. So now I've done it, but there are a few
bugs. I was worried that my system would be unusable, but instead it is just
somewhat crippled.
So my process was first to change repositories in my sources.list, from Jessie
to Stretch, then I upgraded. Then I changed sources.list again to Devuan
Ascii, and upgraded yet again.
Now my network managers and other network-aware programs cannot recognize
wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the shared network in
my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even bother suggesting that
I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to plug in *to*: it's wifi or
nothing.
I seem to recall that other systems (maybe Stretch?) used different names for
some of the same interfaces, so it might just be a problem of renaming my
wlan0 interface to something else. Only I can't find any other names.
Also I cannot use Tor, or anything over proxy servers. As I said, the problem
here seems to be that my system cannot find the interface that I use to
connect. I can see activity over what appears to be wlan0, yet I cannot
activate wlan0 either through a gui program, or by command-line, or by
changing the lines in
/etc/network/interfaces
... so any help here would be appreciated. It seems to be a simple basic
problem, since I still have a running system with some kind of network.
But yay! I have got Devuan Ascii running on my system, so I imagine the rest
of my problems as just fine tuning.
Please help!
Bill
Something similar happened after I installed Devuan Ascii in a new
partition: wlan0 wasn't seen by wicd or any other program. After a
lot of fussing, I had to get a deb file with the driver for my
wireless card and install it using gdebi. After that, wlan0 was
available (maybe had to reboot).
- R
7:05 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Tue June 12 2018 20:31:27 William Morder wrote:
Now my network managers and other network-aware
programs cannot recognize
wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the shared network in
my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even bother suggesting
that I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to plug in *to*: it's wifi
or nothing.
Did I miss seeing this question on the Devuan list?
What sayeth "ipconfig", "ip link", "iwconfig", "dpkg -l
| grep udev",
"dpkg -l | grep dbus", "dpkg -l | grep network-manager",
"dpkg -l | grep wpa", "ps ax | head -2", and "cat
/etc/network/interfaces"?
FWIW my wlan0 is running fine in Ascii + TDE with openvpn and quagga,
although we don't use network manager.
--Mike
8 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Wednesday 13 June 2018 00:05:07 Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue June 12 2018 20:31:27 William Morder wrote:
I did try some of those already. However, just to be sure, I'll go through
your list to see if anything interesting comes up.
I keep running apt-get -f install, and apt keeps finding new things to install
or uninstall.
Now I can run a proxy, send and receive email; but I cannot use any direct
connections. One good thing: the Devuan servers are a lot faster than Debian
servers. It's probably just due to fewer people using them, but it's nice
have quicker downloads.
Bill
Now my network managers and other network-aware
programs cannot recognize
wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the shared network
in my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even bother
suggesting that I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to plug in
*to*: it's wifi or nothing.
Did I miss seeing this question on the Devuan list?
What sayeth "ipconfig", "ip link", "iwconfig", "dpkg
-l | grep udev",
"dpkg -l | grep dbus", "dpkg -l | grep network-manager",
"dpkg -l | grep wpa", "ps ax | head -2", and "cat
/etc/network/interfaces"?
FWIW my wlan0 is running fine in Ascii + TDE with openvpn and quagga,
although we don't use network manager.
--Mike
8:13 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Wed June 13 2018 01:00:03 William Morder wrote:
but I cannot use any direct connections
You appear to be using a direct SMTP connection, and probably also
a direct POP3 or IMAP connection. What kind of direct connection
is not working, how are you trying to make that connection, and
what if any error message do you see?
--Mike
8:25 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Wednesday 13 June 2018 01:13:57 Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 13 2018 01:00:03 William Morder wrote:
It is http or https that doesn't work with a direct connect. And email is smtp
and pop3.
I don't get any error messages. I get nothing at all. The browser just doesn't
load over a direct connection. If you mean what do I get when I run a command
in a console, I am just now going through commands. So far, ifconfig and
iwconfig turn up nothing new; it looks normal enough.
Bill
but I cannot use any direct connections
You appear to be using a direct SMTP connection, and probably also
a direct POP3 or IMAP connection. What kind of direct connection
is not working, how are you trying to make that connection, and
what if any error message do you see?
--Mike
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8:30 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Wed June 13 2018 01:25:00 William Morder wrote:
I don't get any error messages. I get nothing at
all. The browser just
doesn't load over a direct connection. If you mean what do I get when I run
a command in a console, I am just now going through commands. So far,
ifconfig and iwconfig turn up nothing new; it looks normal enough.
You had earlier stated that "network-aware programs cannot recognize
wlan0". What appears in ifconfig and iwconfig?
--Mike
8:41 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Wednesday 13 June 2018 01:30:33 Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 13 2018 01:25:00 William Morder wrote:
I've already tried these; I used these commands all the time, especially
iwconfig.
ifconfig -a
eth0: flags=4099<UP,BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
ether 00:1d:60:94:77:a4 txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet)
RX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B)
RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0
TX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B)
TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0
lo: flags=73<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING> mtu 65536
inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 255.0.0.0
loop txqueuelen 0 (Local Loopback)
RX packets 552644 bytes 2130121850 (1.9 GiB)
RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0
TX packets 552644 bytes 2130121850 (1.9 GiB)
TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0
wlan0: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
inet 10.246.154.167 netmask 255.255.252.0 broadcast 10.246.155.255
inet6 fe80::202:72ff:fe88:d1fd prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x20<link>
ether 00:02:72:88:d1:fd txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet)
RX packets 2776170 bytes 4048306737 (3.7 GiB)
RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0
TX packets 1449588 bytes 197469814 (188.3 MiB)
TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0
Note that I disable ipv6, so I'm curious if it has somehow got re-enabled.
iwconfig
wlan0 IEEE 802.11bg ESSID:"WHERE I LIVE"
Mode:Managed Frequency:2.412 GHz Access Point: AC:86:74:A3:66:C2
Bit Rate=54 Mb/s Tx-Power=30 dBm
Retry short limit:7 RTS thr:off Fragment thr:off
Encryption key:off
Power Management:off
Link Quality=58/100 Signal level=58/100
Rx invalid nwid:0 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0
Tx excessive retries:161 Invalid misc:41051 Missed beacon:0
lo no wireless extensions.
eth0 no wireless extensions.
But when I look at network configuration in other places (for instance, in
Trinity Control Center), no network connections at all are supposed to be
enabled.
Bill
I don't get any error messages. I get nothing
at all. The browser just
doesn't load over a direct connection. If you mean what do I get when I
run a command in a console, I am just now going through commands. So far,
ifconfig and iwconfig turn up nothing new; it looks normal enough.
You had earlier stated that "network-aware programs cannot recognize
wlan0". What appears in ifconfig and iwconfig?
--Mike
8:52 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Wed June 13 2018 01:41:34 William Morder wrote:
But when I look at network configuration in other
places (for instance, in
Trinity Control Center), no network connections at all are supposed to be
enabled.
Hi Bill,
I would ask you please to make your posts here as precise as possible,
such that other people have enough information to perform the same steps
as you have performed and to compare their results with yours.
Are you saying that Trinity Control Center / Peripherals / Information /
/ Network Interfaces shows no interfaces, not even lo?
What please is your "uptime", "cat /proc/version", "lsof
/sbin/udevd",
and "ps ax | grep dbus"?
--Mike
17 Jun
17 Jun
12:08 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Wednesday 13 June 2018 01:52:16 Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 13 2018 01:41:34 William Morder wrote:
Sorry to take so long to respond. I tried to take a screenshot to show you
what I meant, then my system crashed and I could not boot up again. When I
tried to reinstall my system, I kept having problems, so I finally migrated
over to Devuan Jessie/Beowulf (I believe it's called). Now my system is back
to normal again, only better (I hope).
Brief answer: You are correct, when I looked in
Trinity Control Center / Peripherals / Information / Network Interfaces
I saw nothing at all there, not even lo. The same is true when I looked in
Trinity Control Center / Internet & Network / Network Settings
It was the same, no matter if I was user or root.
I think the problem was just that I was tired of installing and reinstalling,
and futzing round with trying to get my system working, when I already had
a "finely tuned system" (to quote somebody else here); so maybe I skipped
some steps in my haste. When I sent that last post to the mailing list, my
system was unstable, and about to crash. I was only upgrading to Debian
Jessie then on to Devuan Ascii, because I read that security.debian.org
servers will no longer support Jessie.
Now that I am running Devuan Jessie/Beowulf (?), I don't know if that is still
true (that as of today, 17th of June, security patches for Jessie will not be
supported). At least Devuan seems to run smoother than Debian. I believe that
hereafter I will confine my learning experiments to my laptop, and save my
desktop for actual work.
Bill
But when I look at network configuration in other
places (for instance,
in Trinity Control Center), no network connections at all are supposed to
be enabled.
Hi Bill,
I would ask you please to make your posts here as precise as possible,
such that other people have enough information to perform the same steps
as you have performed and to compare their results with yours.
Are you saying that Trinity Control Center / Peripherals / Information /
/ Network Interfaces shows no interfaces, not even lo?
What please is your "uptime", "cat /proc/version", "lsof
/sbin/udevd",
and "ps ax | grep dbus"?
--Mike
13 Jun
13 Jun
8:17 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On 06/13/2018 12:05 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue June 12 2018 20:31:27 William Morder wrote:
I just configure /interfaces to hot plug and configure wicd accordingly,
with Devuan it's easy.
Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan Jessie - KDE 4.14.2 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda5
Registered Linux User #380263
Now my network managers and other network-aware
programs cannot recognize
wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the shared network in
my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even bother suggesting
that I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to plug in *to*: it's wifi
or nothing.
Did I miss seeing this question on the Devuan list?
What sayeth "ipconfig", "ip link", "iwconfig", "dpkg
-l | grep udev",
"dpkg -l | grep dbus", "dpkg -l | grep network-manager",
"dpkg -l | grep wpa", "ps ax | head -2", and "cat
/etc/network/interfaces"?
FWIW my wlan0 is running fine in Ascii + TDE with openvpn and quagga,
although we don't use network manager.
8:28 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Wednesday 13 June 2018 01:17:43 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
On 06/13/2018 12:05 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
I already tried to configure interfaces to hot plug, but it reverts to
defaults, which only list lo, not even eth0, and not wlan0 at all. And wicd
is okay, but downloading those packages seems to be a bit tricky. I keep
downloading the same stuff, over and over, including wicd and associated
packages.
Bill
On Tue June 12 2018 20:31:27 William Morder
wrote:
I just configure /interfaces to hot plug and configure wicd accordingly,
with Devuan it's easy.
Cheers, Now my network managers and other network-aware
programs cannot
recognize wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the
shared network in my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even
bother suggesting that I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to
plug in *to*: it's wifi or nothing.
Did I miss seeing this question on the Devuan list?
What sayeth "ipconfig", "ip link", "iwconfig", "dpkg
-l | grep udev",
"dpkg -l | grep dbus", "dpkg -l | grep network-manager",
"dpkg -l | grep wpa", "ps ax | head -2", and "cat
/etc/network/interfaces"?
FWIW my wlan0 is running fine in Ascii + TDE with openvpn and quagga,
although we don't use network manager.
20 Jun
20 Jun
2:23 p.m.
New subject: network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
Okay, so new thread, and nothing about coffee, chocolate, mythical beasts,
religious theories, or the current price of tea in China.
I recently migrated from Debian Jessie to the Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
version. My problem is, now I cannot turn off my network, nor control the
connection at all. I was using the network-manager-tde package, which has
always worked just fine for me. I've tried all the other network managers,
and don't like how they behave. In particular, I want to set my network so
that it never connects automatically, and will only connect manually.
Also, I would like to be able to switch to another network if I so choose
(such as, whenever I clone this system to use on my laptop, and take it to
work remotely, like when doing research at the library). I've tried using the
iwconfig commands
iwconfig wlan0 txpower on
iwconfig wlan0 txpower off
but these currently do nothing. When I do manage to disconnect, then I cannot
reconnect at all, not even after reboot, and am left with no alternative but
to reinstall my entire system.
This does not change, not even when I reboot, not even when I uninstall (or
purge) and reinstall the packages. I've gone through my Linux books, tried
searching online, and thus far nobody seems to have my problem.
Also, I need to be able to use macchanger; because I get weird situations
where I can browse the web but not check email (almost as though I seem to be
using two or more different connections at once); or I can check email (like
now), but not browse the web. With macchanger, if I had those problems, I
could always disconnect, change my local IP, then reconnect, and suddenly
everything was fine again. The same goes for my proxy usage: I have many more
connection issues when I do not use a proxy.
One thing I need to do is to disable IPv6. I did some research, and found a
reliable way to do this, and my connection immediately improved. Now,
however, the same method doesn't seem to work, so I believe it may be that
this is part of the problem. (I don't mind the idea of using IPv6, it's just
that I don't know it well enough yet, and cannot find a firewall that can
adequately deal with it according to my wishes. I want to be able to see my
connections in real time, as in Firestarter. A cli firewall that does this,
sort of like top, would be ideal.) I also don't mind at all using
command-line to control the network, but I like to be able to view the
networks within range; this is the only reason that I use a network manager.
I've tried pretty much all of the managers: TDEnetworkmanager,
Knetworkmanager, wpa_supplicant, Kwifimanager, and of course wicd and its
variants. My problem with wicd is that it wants root permissions, then it
won't allow me to use it; the only recourse is to enable it to run at startup
(by checking all the boxes in sysv-rc-conf), so that I bypass the problem of
privileges.
The network manager applet, too, says that I am not authorized to disconnect
or connect. This was not a problem before I migrated to Devuan; on the other
hand, most of my other problems (mostly minor bugs) seem to have disappeared.
For all practical purposes, I cannot use a proxy, nor am I able to do two
things at once online. All this was working fine in Debian Jessie, but not
since I've gone to Devuan.
Observations and suggestions are welcome. Please feel free to trim down my
post to specific points.
If I disappear from the list again for a few days, you'll know why.
Bill
4:14 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On 06/20/2018 07:23 AM, William Morder wrote:
I recently migrated from Debian Jessie to the Devuan
Jessie-Beowulf merged
version. My problem is, now I cannot turn off my network, nor control the
connection at all. I was using the network-manager-tde package, which has
always worked just fine for me. I've tried all the other network managers,
and don't like how they behave. In particular, I want to set my network so
that it never connects automatically, and will only connect manually.
Observations and suggestions are welcome. Please feel
free to trim down my
post to specific points.
Devuan Jessie was a good idea, but everything above Devuan Jessie is not
for a stable system and you don't need network manager it's counter
productive, all you need is wicd.
If all you're doing is testing, well have fun, it's all a learning
thing. I'm just trying to help you the best I can.
Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan Jessie - TDE Trinity R14.0.4 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda2
Registered Linux User #380263
5:23 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On Wed June 20 2018 07:23:07 William Morder wrote:
I recently migrated from Debian Jessie to the Devuan
Jessie-Beowulf merged
version. My problem is, now I cannot turn off my network, nor control the
connection at all. I was using the network-manager-tde package, which has
always worked just fine for me. I've tried all the other network managers,
and don't like how they behave. In particular, I want to set my network so
that it never connects automatically, and will only connect manually.
Devuan Jessie works well but is based on Debian Jessie which is moving
into LTS.
Devuan Ascii works well and is based on Debian Stretch and is well
supported.
Devuan Beowulf is in development based on Debian Buster in development.
I don't know what you mean by "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version". I
would not recommend Jessie as it is moving to LTS. I would not recommend
Beowulf at this time except to bleeding edge users who are comfortable
fixing any problems they might encounter. I would suggest you start with
a working Devuan Ascii before thinking about TDE PSB.
--Mike
6:26 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On 06/20/2018 10:23 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 20 2018 07:23:07 William Morder wrote:
Mike while ASCII has been released, on my systems and I have many, it's
not usable as a stable system. The reason is my external HDMI screen
video and audio go blank/black-out and then it comes back and then it
goes blank again, over and over, not doable while using the system.
This I have produced over and over. Also reported on Debian User list
by me and others. Until fixed ASCII is not usable.
And why do you not recommend Jessie, LTS or not?
Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan Jessie - TDE Trinity R14.0.4 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda2
Registered Linux User #380263
I recently migrated from Debian Jessie to the
Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
version. My problem is, now I cannot turn off my network, nor control the
connection at all. I was using the network-manager-tde package, which has
always worked just fine for me. I've tried all the other network managers,
and don't like how they behave. In particular, I want to set my network so
that it never connects automatically, and will only connect manually.
Devuan Jessie works well but is based on Debian Jessie which is moving
into LTS.
Devuan Ascii works well and is based on Debian Stretch and is well
supported.
Devuan Beowulf is in development based on Debian Buster in development.
I don't know what you mean by "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version". I
would not recommend Jessie as it is moving to LTS. I would not recommend
Beowulf at this time except to bleeding edge users who are comfortable
fixing any problems they might encounter. I would suggest you start with
a working Devuan Ascii before thinking about TDE PSB.
--Mike
6:42 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On Wed June 20 2018 11:26:13 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
Mike while ASCII has been released, on my systems and
I have many, it's
not usable as a stable system. The reason is my external HDMI screen
video and audio go blank/black-out and then it comes back and then it
goes blank again, over and over, not doable while using the system.
This I have produced over and over. Also reported on Debian User list
by me and others. Until fixed ASCII is not usable.
And why do you not recommend Jessie, LTS or not?
Jessie is usable but LTS means Long Term Support means less security
support.
That said, if Ascii does not work for you then I would recommend Devuan
Jessie at least in the short term. You need to get a solid base that
works for you and then upgrade by simple stages.
Can you give me a Debian bug number for the HDMI problem for reference?
--Mike
7:04 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On 06/20/2018 11:42 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 20 2018 11:26:13 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
Do you mean like if I do a Jessie base install and then upgrade to ASCII
and then install my desktop or something else? Just so you know Trinity
for Jessie will not install on ASCII/Stretch, I wish it would.
Mike while ASCII has been released, on my systems
and I have many, it's
not usable as a stable system. The reason is my external HDMI screen
video and audio go blank/black-out and then it comes back and then it
goes blank again, over and over, not doable while using the system.
This I have produced over and over. Also reported on Debian User list
by me and others. Until fixed ASCII is not usable.
And why do you not recommend Jessie, LTS or not?
Jessie is usable but LTS means Long Term Support means less security
support.
That said, if Ascii does not work for you then I would recommend Devuan
Jessie at least in the short term. You need to get a solid base that
works for you and then upgrade by simple stages. Can you give me a Debian bug number for the HDMI
problem for reference?
--Mike
In more than 20 years I've never filed a bug report, but there have been
Dev's who have shown a interest and have been able to reproduce the
problems I have found and have filed bug reports, so I don't know if
there has been a bug report filed or not.
Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan Jessie - TDE Trinity R14.0.4 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda2
Registered Linux User #380263
7:27 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On Wed June 20 2018 12:04:46 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
Please search Debian bug reports for your Debian HDMI bug. If there's no
report on your problem please file one. If there's a TDE bug please do
the same with TDE bug reports ... but thus far I don't see any TDE aspect
to this and I don't understand why you're posting complaints to a TDE list
instead of filing bugs to the Debian bug database.
--Mike
On 06/20/2018 11:42 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
Trinity Stable for Jessie works well with Jessie.
Trinity PSB for Ascii works well with Ascii.
Please make your posts as precise as possible. I still don't know what you
mean when you say you migrated to the "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version".
Jessie is usable but LTS means Long Term Support
means less security
support.
That said, if Ascii does not work for you then I would recommend Devuan
Jessie at least in the short term. You need to get a solid base that
works for you and then upgrade by simple stages.
Do you mean like if I do a Jessie base install and then upgrade to ASCII
and then install my desktop or something else? Just so you know Trinity
for Jessie will not install on ASCII/Stretch, I wish it would. Can you give
me a Debian bug number for the HDMI problem for reference?
In more than 20 years I've never filed a bug report, but there have been
Dev's who have shown a interest and have been able to reproduce the
problems I have found and have filed bug reports, so I don't know if
there has been a bug report filed or not.
8:08 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On 06/20/2018 12:27 PM, Mike Bird wrote:
Please search Debian bug reports for your Debian HDMI bug. If there's no
report on your problem please file one.
Why should I start now.
On Wed June 20 2018 12:04:46 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
To bad it don't work with ASCII.
On 06/20/2018 11:42 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
Trinity Stable for Jessie works well with Jessie. Jessie is usable but LTS means Long Term Support
means less security
support.
That said, if Ascii does not work for you then I would recommend Devuan
Jessie at least in the short term. You need to get a solid base that
works for you and then upgrade by simple stages.
Do you mean like if I do a Jessie base install and then upgrade to ASCII
and then install my desktop or something else? Just so you know Trinity
for Jessie will not install on ASCII/Stretch, I wish it would. Trinity PSB for Ascii works well with Ascii.
Please make your posts as precise as possible. I still don't know what you
mean when you say you migrated to the "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version".
Bill said that not me.
Can you give me a Debian bug number for the HDMI
problem for reference?
In more than 20 years I've never filed a bug report, but there have been
Dev's who have shown a interest and have been able to reproduce the
problems I have found and have filed bug reports, so I don't know if
there has been a bug report filed or not. If there's a TDE bug please do
the same with TDE bug reports ... but thus far I don't see any TDE aspect
to this and I don't understand why you're posting complaints to a TDE list
instead of filing bugs to the Debian bug database.
I'm not using Debian, I'm using Devuan. Also I was talking to Bill and
then you jumped in, so I explained the problem to you and why I don't
recommend Bill upgrading from Jessie. I'm pretty sure what's going on
is a security problem and part of that systemd crap that has not been
rooted out yet. Besides I like using Jessie and hate to upgrade, but I
will test most anything and give a report *if I feel like it*. Also I'm
not much of a joiner. :)
I'm sure the problem will be fixed in time it just takes a couple of
years. In the meantime Dev's will be using Jessie and will not notice
the problem. If you're in Yosemite I worked there for about 10
yrs(early 80's to the early 90's), just thought I'd let you know.
Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan Jessie - TDE Trinity R14.0.4 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda2
Registered Linux User #380263
8:39 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On Wed June 20 2018 13:08:15 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
If you just complain it wastes developer time and is very inefficient.
Please search and file bug reports and thus provide focus and reduce
duplication and facilitate tracking, discussion, fixing, and fix
verification.
On 06/20/2018 12:27 PM, Mike Bird wrote:
I apologize for my mistake.
I still don't know what Bill means by "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
version".
Please make your posts as precise as possible. I
still don't know what
you mean when you say you migrated to the "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
version".
Bill said that not me. Please search
Debian bug reports for your Debian HDMI bug. If there's no
report on your problem please file one.
Why should I start now. I'm not using Debian, I'm using Devuan.
Devuan is roughly 99.9% Debian and has roughly two orders of magnitude
more developers. Again, to avoid inefficient duplication, reports of
bugs in the Debian portion should be filed in the Debian bug database.
I'm sure the problem will be fixed in time it just
takes a couple of
years. In the meantime Dev's will be using Jessie and will not notice
the problem.
Relatively few people will be using Jessie henceforth due to immediately
reduced security support and slowly increasing obsolescence.
If you're in Yosemite I worked there for about 10
yrs(early 80's to
the early 90's), just thought I'd let you know.
I was the first ISP in the county - before the telco.
--Mike
8:13 p.m.
New subject: LTS has less security
Hi Mike, people and others.
LTS has less security support in what way. In general because there are less
improvements compared to the none lts?
Just to be clear.
Thanks
Kate
8:53 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] LTS has less security
On Wed June 20 2018 13:13:16 Kate Draven wrote:
LTS has less security support in what way. In general
because there are
less improvements compared to the none lts?
Hi Kate,
A few packages lose all support with LTS. The majority in my experience
tend to get somewhat less security support than Stable and OldStable.
OTOH I've seen several cases where a DLA arrived before the equivalent
DSA.
--Mike
9:14 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] LTS has less security
On Wednesday 20 June 2018, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 20 2018 13:13:16 Kate Draven wrote:
So what would
your recommendation be. I tend to avoid LTS kernels because I'd
rather chance it with newer STS kernels.
Thanks for letting me pick your brainZZZZ!
Zombie Kate
LTS has less security support in what way. In
general because there are
less improvements compared to the none lts?
Hi Kate,
A few packages lose all support with LTS. The majority in my experience
tend to get somewhat less security support than Stable and OldStable.
OTOH I've seen several cases where a DLA arrived before the equivalent
DSA.
--Mike
---------------------------------------------------------------------
11:28 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] LTS has less security
On Wed June 20 2018 14:14:18 Kate Draven wrote:
So what would your recommendation be. I tend to avoid
LTS kernels because
I'd rather chance it with newer STS kernels.
Hi Kate,
I don't know anything about your needs and preferences.
I'm using Devuan Ascii with TDE PSB. I also have several Ascii test boxes
with and without TDE. Our live servers are currently Devuan Jessie but I
will soon migrate them to Devuan Ascii.
Because of the TDE PSB change volume I'm delaying upgrading workstations
and laptops from Devuan Jessie and TDE Stable to Ascii until TDE's Ascii
support becomes Stable later this summer.
--Mike
9:16 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] LTS has less security
On 06/20/2018 01:13 PM, Kate Draven wrote:
Hi Mike, people and others.
LTS has less security support in what way. In general because there are less
improvements compared to the none lts?
Just to be clear.
Thanks
Kate
No worry Kate, when something gets broken in stable, old stable and
old-old stable it will get fixed, corporations are paying money for
support and us lone users make out like bandits. :)
Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan Jessie - TDE Trinity R14.0.4 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda2
Registered Linux User #380263
8:07 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On Wednesday 20 June 2018, William Morder wrote:
Okay, so new thread, and nothing about coffee,
chocolate, mythical beasts,
religious theories, or the current price of tea in China.
I recently migrated from Debian Jessie to the Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
version. My problem is, now I cannot turn off my network, nor control the
connection at all. I was using the network-manager-tde package, which has
always worked just fine for me. I've tried all the other network managers,
and don't like how they behave. In particular, I want to set my network so
that it never connects automatically, and will only connect manually.
Also, I would like to be able to switch to another network if I so choose
(such as, whenever I clone this system to use on my laptop, and take it to
work remotely, like when doing research at the library). I've tried using
the iwconfig commands
iwconfig wlan0 txpower on
iwconfig wlan0 txpower off
but these currently do nothing. When I do manage to disconnect, then I
cannot reconnect at all, not even after reboot, and am left with no
alternative but to reinstall my entire system.
This does not change, not even when I reboot, not even when I uninstall (or
purge) and reinstall the packages. I've gone through my Linux books, tried
searching online, and thus far nobody seems to have my problem.
Also, I need to be able to use macchanger; because I get weird situations
where I can browse the web but not check email (almost as though I seem to
be using two or more different connections at once); or I can check email
(like now), but not browse the web. With macchanger, if I had those
problems, I could always disconnect, change my local IP, then reconnect,
and suddenly everything was fine again. The same goes for my proxy usage: I
have many more connection issues when I do not use a proxy.
One thing I need to do is to disable IPv6. I did some research, and found a
reliable way to do this, and my connection immediately improved. Now,
however, the same method doesn't seem to work, so I believe it may be that
this is part of the problem. (I don't mind the idea of using IPv6, it's
just that I don't know it well enough yet, and cannot find a firewall that
can adequately deal with it according to my wishes. I want to be able to
see my connections in real time, as in Firestarter. A cli firewall that
does this, sort of like top, would be ideal.) I also don't mind at all
using
command-line to control the network, but I like to be able to view the
networks within range; this is the only reason that I use a network
manager. I've tried pretty much all of the managers: TDEnetworkmanager,
Knetworkmanager, wpa_supplicant, Kwifimanager, and of course wicd and its
variants. My problem with wicd is that it wants root permissions, then it
won't allow me to use it; the only recourse is to enable it to run at
startup (by checking all the boxes in sysv-rc-conf), so that I bypass the
problem of privileges.
The network manager applet, too, says that I am not authorized to
disconnect or connect. This was not a problem before I migrated to Devuan;
on the other hand, most of my other problems (mostly minor bugs) seem to
have disappeared. For all practical purposes, I cannot use a proxy, nor am
I able to do two things at once online. All this was working fine in Debian
Jessie, but not since I've gone to Devuan.
Observations and suggestions are welcome. Please feel free to trim down my
post to specific points.
If I disappear from the list again for a few days, you'll know why.
Bill
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you
checked things like;
firmware, add or removed it.
is there something called dkms or the like (no time to look now).
Those packages prevented my eth0 from working.
Also make sure networkmanager service is running.
All I can think of at the moment.
I'll keep thinking (despite the pain),
Kate
22 Jun
22 Jun
4:17 p.m.
New subject: system colors & permission problems
I don't know if these issues are really connected; I only know that they seem
to occur together. Feel free to separate the two issues if that is more
accurate.
Issue #1
I noticed that my system colors are not applied to some applications. In
particular, the Firefox/Iceweasel and Seamonkey browsers. Sometimes when I
start up, these take on my KDE4 Plasma color settings (even when KDE4 is not
installed); sometimes (maybe one-third to one-half of my installations),
everything in the GUI is white, sort of like in Gnome desktops that I've
seen. (Again, Gnome is not installed, though I do use some standalone
applications.) I can make PaleMoon take on my TDE color scheme settings, and
when I uncheck the button that says "apply to non TDE applications", etc.,
it, too, turns all white like these other apps; however, PaleMoon never takes
on the color scheme from the KDE4 Plasma desktop. And then, at other times,
after I install I get my TDE settings. (Maybe one out of ten installations, I
will have Seamonkey and Firefox/Iceweasel use my TDE color scheme settings.)
Then again, sometimes they will use my KDE4 settings. Both are available in
my TDE desktop, but only KDE4 settings are available in that desktop.
TDE
Trinity Control Center/Colors
x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4
System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options
x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color settings,
just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate that my pretty
desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because a white screen
triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at night in a dark
room. I impose dark screen settings on my default browsers and other
applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a practical reason:
whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me that I have opened
that application as root, so that I am sure to be careful I don't really mess
up or delete stuff.
It occurred to me to try to purge the offending applications, then to try to
reinstall them from within the KDE4 desktop environment, and to do the same
within TDE, but this made no difference. Thus far, my only options are either
to live with the lack of color, or to reinstall my system yet again, and hope
for the best.
Issue #2
This may or may not be related; it could be a permissions problem. I now find
that some of my external hard drives cannot be mounted or used, because I can
only access them as root. Even if I wanted to use them as root, it means that
I cannot access music files with my media player, for example. Again, this
has happened before, though not often, usually after a fresh installation. In
the past, it seems the only cure is to reinstall everything. However, since
I've not got this Devuan Jessie system working pretty well, I don't want to
mess up a good thing, especially if there is an easy fix.
I've already tried changing permissions, and that sort of thing. I am guessing
that there might be some kind of config files buried somewhere. I've
searched, but thus far I can find nothing.
Bill
Devuan Jessie 8.8.x
TDE Trinity 14.0.4
9:30 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] system colors & permission problems
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:17:34 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
I don't know if these issues are really connected;
I only know that they seem
to occur together. Feel free to separate the two issues if that is more
accurate.
Issue #1
I noticed that my system colors are not applied to some applications. In
particular, the Firefox/Iceweasel and Seamonkey browsers. Sometimes when I
start up, these take on my KDE4 Plasma color settings (even when KDE4 is not
installed); sometimes (maybe one-third to one-half of my installations),
everything in the GUI is white, sort of like in Gnome desktops that I've
seen. (Again, Gnome is not installed, though I do use some standalone
applications.) I can make PaleMoon take on my TDE color scheme settings, and
when I uncheck the button that says "apply to non TDE applications", etc.,
it, too, turns all white like these other apps; however, PaleMoon never takes
on the color scheme from the KDE4 Plasma desktop. And then, at other times,
after I install I get my TDE settings. (Maybe one out of ten installations, I
will have Seamonkey and Firefox/Iceweasel use my TDE color scheme settings.)
Then again, sometimes they will use my KDE4 settings. Both are available in
my TDE desktop, but only KDE4 settings are available in that desktop.
Sounds like you're hitting a familiar problem with Linux GUI applications:
they're all built with different widget sets, and attempts to transfer the colour
schemes for different sets around are fraught.
Currently, there are no less than three versions of QT and two of GTK in
common use, and I find the only way to get them to behave themselves is
to configure them all separately. Browsers in the Firefox family use GTK2
or GTK3, depending on which browser and which version.
Unfortunately, I never did find a nice GUI configurator for writing system
GTK configs without a GTK-based desktop installed. QT3 is configured
through TDE, QT4 through KDE4 or the included Trolltech settings widget,
and qt5ct works adequately for QT5.
TDE
Trinity Control Center/Colors
x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4
System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options
x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color settings,
just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate that my pretty
desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because a white screen
triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at night in a dark
room. I impose dark screen settings on my default browsers and other
applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a practical reason:
whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me that I have opened
that application as root, so that I am sure to be careful I don't really mess
up or delete stuff.
Yeah, sounds about right--I've been setting up my desktops with white text
on black/blue for more than twenty years for similar reasons.
Try unchecking those two boxes you mention first. Then create a file .gtkrc-2.0
in your user's home directory and put the following in it:
gtk-color-scheme = "bg_color: #000044\nfg_color: #fff\nbase_color: #000\ntext_color:
#fff\nselected_bg_color: #0ff\nselected_fg_color: #000\ntooltip_bg_color:
#0ff\ntooltip_fg_color: #000"
If that causes an abrupt colour change in your browser chrome, it should be
easy enough to work it into a more standard colour scheme by adjusting the
hex. If not, we may have a little more work to do (my file is actually a lot more
extensive and defines a variation on the standard Industrial style, because that
was the easiest way to get usable scrollbars with such dark colours).
Styling GTK3 is not that easy, unfortunately--it took me just under 400 lines
of CSS to get something I could live with. I can hand my file over to you to
play with if it turns out you need it (the colour information is exposed at the
top, so fairly easy to change).
It occurred to me to try to purge the offending
applications, then to try to
reinstall them from within the KDE4 desktop environment, and to do the same
within TDE, but this made no difference. Thus far, my only options are either
to live with the lack of color, or to reinstall my system yet again, and hope
for the best.
Issue #2
This may or may not be related; it could be a permissions problem. I now find
that some of my external hard drives cannot be mounted or used, because I can
only access them as root. Even if I wanted to use them as root, it means that
I cannot access music files with my media player, for example. Again, this
has happened before, though not often, usually after a fresh installation. In
the past, it seems the only cure is to reinstall everything. However, since
I've not got this Devuan Jessie system working pretty well, I don't want to
mess up a good thing, especially if there is an easy fix.
I've already tried changing permissions, and that sort of thing. I am guessing
that there might be some kind of config files buried somewhere. I've
searched, but thus far I can find nothing.
My first instinct would be to check /etc/fstab for missing "user" options and
any odd umasks. Also, udev does funky things with permissions sometimes.
Of course, I'm using a different distro without an automounter, so I may be
way off-base.
E. Liddell
11:46 p.m.
New subject: system colors & permission problems
On 2018-06-22 16:30:09 E. Liddell wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:17:34 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
I've used the gnome-tweak-tool for this
(in my case to get rid of the yucky
sans-serif fonts). On the Appearance tab there's an option called Global
Dark Theme. Also, in Firefox, I've installed a theme called Compact Dark,
which helps, too. There are numerous other dark themes for Firefox, and
probably for Chrome and Opera, too.
Leslie
I don't know if these issues are really
connected; I only know that they
seem to occur together. Feel free to separate the two issues if that is
more accurate.
Issue #1
I noticed that my system colors are not applied to some applications. In
particular, the Firefox/Iceweasel and Seamonkey browsers. Sometimes when
I start up, these take on my KDE4 Plasma color settings (even when KDE4
is not installed); sometimes (maybe one-third to one-half of my
installations), everything in the GUI is white, sort of like in Gnome
desktops that I've seen. (Again, Gnome is not installed, though I do use
some standalone applications.) I can make PaleMoon take on my TDE color
scheme settings, and when I uncheck the button that says "apply to non
TDE applications", etc., it, too, turns all white like these other apps;
however, PaleMoon never takes on the color scheme from the KDE4 Plasma
desktop. And then, at other times, after I install I get my TDE settings.
(Maybe one out of ten installations, I will have Seamonkey and
Firefox/Iceweasel use my TDE color scheme settings.) Then again,
sometimes they will use my KDE4 settings. Both are available in my TDE
desktop, but only KDE4 settings are available in that desktop.
Sounds like you're hitting a familiar problem with Linux GUI applications:
they're all built with different widget sets, and attempts to transfer the
colour schemes for different sets around are fraught.
Currently, there are no less than three versions of QT and two of GTK in
common use, and I find the only way to get them to behave themselves is
to configure them all separately. Browsers in the Firefox family use GTK2
or GTK3, depending on which browser and which version.
Unfortunately, I never did find a nice GUI configurator for writing system
GTK configs without a GTK-based desktop installed. QT3 is configured
through TDE, QT4 through KDE4 or the included Trolltech settings widget,
and qt5ct works adequately for QT5. TDE
Trinity Control Center/Colors
x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4
System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options
x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color
settings, just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate
that my pretty desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because
a white screen triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at
night in a dark room. I impose dark screen settings on my default
browsers and other applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a
practical reason: whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me
that I have opened that application as root, so that I am sure to be
careful I don't really mess up or delete stuff.
Yeah, sounds about right--I've been setting up my desktops with white text
on black/blue for more than twenty years for similar reasons.
Try unchecking those two boxes you mention first. Then create a file
.gtkrc-2.0 in your user's home directory and put the following in it:
gtk-color-scheme = "bg_color: #000044\nfg_color: #fff\nbase_color:
#000\ntext_color: #fff\nselected_bg_color: #0ff\nselected_fg_color:
#000\ntooltip_bg_color: #0ff\ntooltip_fg_color: #000"
If that causes an abrupt colour change in your browser chrome, it should be
easy enough to work it into a more standard colour scheme by adjusting the
hex. If not, we may have a little more work to do (my file is actually a
lot more extensive and defines a variation on the standard Industrial
style, because that was the easiest way to get usable scrollbars with such
dark colours).
Styling GTK3 is not that easy, unfortunately--it took me just under 400
lines of CSS to get something I could live with. I can hand my file over
to you to play with if it turns out you need it (the colour information is
exposed at the top, so fairly easy to change).
It occurred to me to try to purge the offending
applications, then to try
to reinstall them from within the KDE4 desktop environment, and to do the
same within TDE, but this made no difference. Thus far, my only options
are either to live with the lack of color, or to reinstall my system yet
again, and hope for the best.
Issue #2
This may or may not be related; it could be a permissions problem. I now
find that some of my external hard drives cannot be mounted or used,
because I can only access them as root. Even if I wanted to use them as
root, it means that I cannot access music files with my media player, for
example. Again, this has happened before, though not often, usually after
a fresh installation. In the past, it seems the only cure is to reinstall
everything. However, since I've not got this Devuan Jessie system working
pretty well, I don't want to mess up a good thing, especially if there is
an easy fix.
I've already tried changing permissions, and that sort of thing. I am
guessing that there might be some kind of config files buried somewhere.
I've searched, but thus far I can find nothing.
My first instinct would be to check /etc/fstab for missing "user" options
and any odd umasks. Also, udev does funky things with permissions
sometimes. Of course, I'm using a different distro without an automounter,
so I may be way off-base.
E. Liddell
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11:50 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] system colors & permission problems
On Friday 22 June 2018 14:30:09 E. Liddell wrote:
Thanks, will try these suggestions. And I would like to play with that config
file of yours that you mentioned. I am pretty good at plagiarizing code.
Bill
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:17:34 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
I already did that. I checked and unchecked them numerous times; checked one
but not the other, restarted after changing them, etc.; but no changes.
I don't know if these issues are really
connected; I only know that they
seem to occur together. Feel free to separate the two issues if that is
more accurate.
Issue #1
I noticed that my system colors are not applied to some applications. In
particular, the Firefox/Iceweasel and Seamonkey browsers. Sometimes when
I start up, these take on my KDE4 Plasma color settings (even when KDE4
is not installed); sometimes (maybe one-third to one-half of my
installations), everything in the GUI is white, sort of like in Gnome
desktops that I've seen. (Again, Gnome is not installed, though I do use
some standalone applications.) I can make PaleMoon take on my TDE color
scheme settings, and when I uncheck the button that says "apply to non
TDE applications", etc., it, too, turns all white like these other apps;
however, PaleMoon never takes on the color scheme from the KDE4 Plasma
desktop. And then, at other times, after I install I get my TDE settings.
(Maybe one out of ten installations, I will have Seamonkey and
Firefox/Iceweasel use my TDE color scheme settings.) Then again,
sometimes they will use my KDE4 settings. Both are available in my TDE
desktop, but only KDE4 settings are available in that desktop.
Sounds like you're hitting a familiar problem with Linux GUI applications:
they're all built with different widget sets, and attempts to transfer the
colour schemes for different sets around are fraught.
Currently, there are no less than three versions of QT and two of GTK in
common use, and I find the only way to get them to behave themselves is
to configure them all separately. Browsers in the Firefox family use GTK2
or GTK3, depending on which browser and which version.
Unfortunately, I never did find a nice GUI configurator for writing system
GTK configs without a GTK-based desktop installed. QT3 is configured
through TDE, QT4 through KDE4 or the included Trolltech settings widget,
and qt5ct works adequately for QT5.
TDE
Trinity Control Center/Colors
x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4
System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options
x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color
settings, just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate
that my pretty desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because
a white screen triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at
night in a dark room. I impose dark screen settings on my default
browsers and other applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a
practical reason: whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me
that I have opened that application as root, so that I am sure to be
careful I don't really mess up or delete stuff.
Yeah, sounds about right--I've been setting up my desktops with white text
on black/blue for more than twenty years for similar reasons.
Try unchecking those two boxes you mention first. Then create a file
.gtkrc-2.0 in your user's home directory and put the following in it:
gtk-color-scheme = "bg_color: #000044\nfg_color: #fff\nbase_color:
#000\ntext_color: #fff\nselected_bg_color: #0ff\nselected_fg_color:
#000\ntooltip_bg_color: #0ff\ntooltip_fg_color: #000"
If that causes an abrupt colour change in your browser chrome, it should be
easy enough to work it into a more standard colour scheme by adjusting the
hex. If not, we may have a little more work to do (my file is actually a
lot more extensive and defines a variation on the standard Industrial
style, because that was the easiest way to get usable scrollbars with such
dark colours).
Styling GTK3 is not that easy, unfortunately--it took me just under 400
lines of CSS to get something I could live with. I can hand my file over
to you to play with if it turns out you need it (the colour information is
exposed at the top, so fairly easy to change).
Yes, please. From what you have given me here, it looks like something I could
use. I could just change it to suit my own needs. And 400 lines doesn't scare
me.
It occurred to me to try to purge the offending
applications, then to try
to reinstall them from within the KDE4 desktop environment, and to do the
same within TDE, but this made no difference. Thus far, my only options
are either to live with the lack of color, or to reinstall my system yet
again, and hope for the best.
Issue #2
This may or may not be related; it could be a permissions problem. I now
find that some of my external hard drives cannot be mounted or used,
because I can only access them as root. Even if I wanted to use them as
root, it means that I cannot access music files with my media player, for
example. Again, this has happened before, though not often, usually after
a fresh installation. In the past, it seems the only cure is to reinstall
everything. However, since I've not [correction, *now*] got this Devuan
Jessie system working pretty well, I don't want to mess up a good thing,
especially if there is an easy fix.
I've already tried changing permissions, and that sort of thing. I am
guessing that there might be some kind of config files buried somewhere.
I've searched, but thus far I can find nothing.
My first instinct would be to check /etc/fstab for missing "user" options
and any odd umasks. Also, udev does funky things with permissions
sometimes. Of course, I'm using a different distro without an automounter,
so I may be way off-base.
E. Liddell
23 Jun
23 Jun
10:46 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] system colors & permission problems
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 16:50:26 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
I already did that. I checked and unchecked them numerous times; checked one
but not the other, restarted after changing them, etc.; but no changes.
What those checkboxes do (or at least, what the TDE one used to do) is
write an additional configuration for GTK widgets that tries to give them similar
settings to your QT widgets. Unchecking them should cause the system to
revert to the normal GTK theming system, which can then be messed with to
produce more reliable results.
Okay, I've attached both my GTK2 and GTK3 style files. I also tossed in a
screenshot showing what Seamonkey looks like when themed with this mess
(the screwed-up tab bar is due to a malfunctioning browser extension, though).
I guarantee it is not white. ;)
.gtkrc-2.0 is a GTK2 style. Pale Moon (as of 27.9.3) and SeaMonkey (as of
2.49.7.0) still use GTK2. Place this file in your user's home directory.
Unfortunately,
it is not neat or tidy and has colour definitions scattered all over the file. It also
needs
the Industrial GTK2 "engine" in order to function properly. For me, Industrial
is located
in the package x11-themes/gtk-engines-2.20.2. I don't know where it may be for
your distro.
gtk.css is a GTK3 style, and you would place it in .config/gtk-3.0/ . It's somewhat
more neatly written, with all the colour definitions at the top. The style is mildly
skeuomorphic if functioning properly (slightly raised borders around buttons, etc.)
I have a separate settings.ini file in that directory, but I don't think it's
relevant.
Oh, and if you have any other files of the form .gtkrc-2.0-x or similar in your home
directory, rename them to get them out of the way.
E. Liddell
On Friday 22 June 2018 14:30:09 E. Liddell wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:17:34 -0700
>
> William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
TDE
Trinity Control Center/Colors
x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4
System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options
x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color
settings, just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate
that my pretty desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because
a white screen triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at
night in a dark room. I impose dark screen settings on my default
browsers and other applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a
practical reason: whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me
that I have opened that application as root, so that I am sure to be
careful I don't really mess up or delete stuff.
Yeah, sounds about right--I've been setting up my desktops with white text
on black/blue for more than twenty years for similar reasons.
Try unchecking those two boxes you mention first. Then create a file
.gtkrc-2.0 in your user's home directory and put the following in it:
gtk-color-scheme = "bg_color: #000044\nfg_color: #fff\nbase_color:
#000\ntext_color: #fff\nselected_bg_color: #0ff\nselected_fg_color:
#000\ntooltip_bg_color: #0ff\ntooltip_fg_color: #000"
If that causes an abrupt colour change in your browser chrome, it should be
easy enough to work it into a more standard colour scheme by adjusting the
hex. If not, we may have a little more work to do (my file is actually a
lot more extensive and defines a variation on the standard Industrial
style, because that was the easiest way to get usable scrollbars with such
dark colours).
Styling GTK3 is not that easy, unfortunately--it took me just under 400
lines of CSS to get something I could live with. I can hand my file over
to you to play with if it turns out you need it (the colour information is
exposed at the top, so fairly easy to change).
Yes, please. From what you have given me here, it looks like something I could
use. I could just change it to suit my own needs. And 400 lines doesn't scare
me. 
11:27 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] system colors & permission problems
On Saturday 23 June 2018 15:46:39 E. Liddell wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 16:50:26 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Okay, I've attached both my GTK2 and GTK3 style files. I also tossed in a
screenshot showing what Seamonkey looks like when themed with this mess
(the screwed-up tab bar is due to a malfunctioning browser extension,
though). I guarantee it is not white. ;)
.gtkrc-2.0 is a GTK2 style. Pale Moon (as of 27.9.3) and SeaMonkey (as of
2.49.7.0) still use GTK2. Place this file in your user's home directory.
Unfortunately, it is not neat or tidy and has colour definitions scattered
all over the file. It also needs the Industrial GTK2 "engine" in order to
function properly. For me, Industrial is located in the package
x11-themes/gtk-engines-2.20.2. I don't know where it may be for your
distro.
gtk.css is a GTK3 style, and you would place it in .config/gtk-3.0/ . It's
somewhat more neatly written, with all the colour definitions at the top.
The style is mildly skeuomorphic if functioning properly (slightly raised
borders around buttons, etc.) I have a separate settings.ini file in that
directory, but I don't think it's relevant.
Oh, and if you have any other files of the form .gtkrc-2.0-x or similar in
your home directory, rename them to get them out of the way.
E. Liddell
Thanks, I do appreciate it. I would hate to do a reinstallation for only some
silly glitches. And messing round with your config files will save me a lot
of time. I appreciate your hard work, and sharing it. You will get your
reward in heaven, if not on earth.
;-)
Bill
On Friday 22 June 2018 14:30:09 E. Liddell
wrote:
What those checkboxes do (or at least, what the TDE one used to do) is
write an additional configuration for GTK widgets that tries to give them
similar settings to your QT widgets. Unchecking them should cause the
system to revert to the normal GTK theming system, which can then be messed
with to produce more reliable results.
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:17:34 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
I already did that. I checked and unchecked them numerous times; checked
one but not the other, restarted after changing them, etc.; but no
changes. TDE
Trinity Control Center/Colors
x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4
System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options
x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color
settings, just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate
that my pretty desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings
because a white screen triggers a migraine - especially when I am
working late at night in a dark room. I impose dark screen settings
on my default browsers and other applications, too, for this reason.
Also, there is a practical reason: whenever I see a white screen,
this usually reminds me that I have opened that application as root,
so that I am sure to be careful I don't really mess up or delete
stuff.
Yeah, sounds about right--I've been setting up my desktops with white
text on black/blue for more than twenty years for similar reasons.
Try unchecking those two boxes you mention first. Then create a file
.gtkrc-2.0 in your user's home directory and put the following in it:
gtk-color-scheme = "bg_color: #000044\nfg_color: #fff\nbase_color:
#000\ntext_color: #fff\nselected_bg_color: #0ff\nselected_fg_color:
#000\ntooltip_bg_color: #0ff\ntooltip_fg_color: #000"
If that causes an abrupt colour change in your browser chrome, it
should be easy enough to work it into a more standard colour scheme by
adjusting the hex. If not, we may have a little more work to do (my
file is actually a lot more extensive and defines a variation on the
standard Industrial style, because that was the easiest way to get
usable scrollbars with such dark colours).
Styling GTK3 is not that easy, unfortunately--it took me just under 400
lines of CSS to get something I could live with. I can hand my file
over to you to play with if it turns out you need it (the colour
information is exposed at the top, so fairly easy to change).
Yes, please. From what you have given me here, it looks like something I
could use. I could just change it to suit my own needs. And 400 lines
doesn't scare me.
7:11 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] system colors & permission problems
On 06/22/2018 09:17 AM, William Morder wrote:
I don't know if these issues are really connected;
I only know that they seem
to occur together. Feel free to separate the two issues if that is more
accurate.
Issue #1
I noticed that my system colors are not applied to some applications. In
particular, the Firefox/Iceweasel and Seamonkey browsers. Sometimes when I
start up, these take on my KDE4 Plasma color settings (even when KDE4 is not
installed); sometimes (maybe one-third to one-half of my installations),
everything in the GUI is white, sort of like in Gnome desktops that I've
seen. (Again, Gnome is not installed, though I do use some standalone
applications.) I can make PaleMoon take on my TDE color scheme settings, and
when I uncheck the button that says "apply to non TDE applications", etc.,
it, too, turns all white like these other apps; however, PaleMoon never takes
on the color scheme from the KDE4 Plasma desktop. And then, at other times,
after I install I get my TDE settings. (Maybe one out of ten installations, I
will have Seamonkey and Firefox/Iceweasel use my TDE color scheme settings.)
Then again, sometimes they will use my KDE4 settings. Both are available in
my TDE desktop, but only KDE4 settings are available in that desktop.
TDE
Trinity Control Center/Colors
x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4
System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options
x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color settings,
just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate that my pretty
desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because a white screen
triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at night in a dark
room. I impose dark screen settings on my default browsers and other
applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a practical reason:
whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me that I have opened
that application as root, so that I am sure to be careful I don't really mess
up or delete stuff.
It occurred to me to try to purge the offending applications, then to try to
reinstall them from within the KDE4 desktop environment, and to do the same
within TDE, but this made no difference. Thus far, my only options are either
to live with the lack of color, or to reinstall my system yet again, and hope
for the best.
You're holding kde4 apps? You should get rid of them and install tde
apps. You should get rid of hidden system settings in your home too,
except for mail, browser and collections. And after you remove that
stuff install and run 'upgrade-system', it will run dist-upgrade and
deborphan. You can do a synaptic search for kde and remove them all,
just don't remove the trinity stuff, they are easy to spot. Start out
clean and build a solid system that you will want to use for the next 2
plus years.
Issue #2
This may or may not be related; it could be a permissions problem. I now find
that some of my external hard drives cannot be mounted or used, because I can
only access them as root. Even if I wanted to use them as root, it means that
I cannot access music files with my media player, for example. Again, this
has happened before, though not often, usually after a fresh installation. In
the past, it seems the only cure is to reinstall everything. However, since
I've not got this Devuan Jessie system working pretty well, I don't want to
mess up a good thing, especially if there is an easy fix.
I've already tried changing permissions, and that sort of thing. I am guessing
that there might be some kind of config files buried somewhere. I've
searched, but thus far I can find nothing.
You should be able to solve that by editing fstab, add the drives there
and then use kwikdisk/kdf-trinity and or konqueror-trinity to mount,
need help with fstab, let me know, also you Bill are welcome to send me
private email.
Devuan Jessie 8.8.x
TDE Trinity 14.0.4
Welcome to Devuan Jessie, it's almost as good as Wheezy. ;)
https://i.paste.pics/3AU9S.png
Wednesday I put this Devuan Jessie+Trinity together:
https://i.paste.pics/3AU80.png
--
Jimmy Johnson
Debian Wheezy - KDE 4.8.4 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda10
Registered Linux User #380263
27 Jun
27 Jun
4:53 p.m.
New subject: Brother printer - comments?
Just got a Brother printer-scanner-copier-fax combo, model is MFC-495CW, so if
anybody has comments or recommendations from experience, I am all ears.
Here is my model:
https://support.brother.com/g/b/spec.aspx?c=us&lang=en&prod=mfc495c…
I don't have a lot of money to spend (much less to waste) on printer
cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP
cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them, the ink
dried up! I don't want to go through that again.)
I managed to download the drivers for Debian, the product manual, researched
everything I could think of, but now it comes to spending my last few bucks
(literally) on the second-most expensive substance* known in human history,
so I hesitate before using my debit card.
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
Brother, of course, "strongly recommends" not to use third-party, or
refillable cartridges, etc., but I don't have a warranty, anyway, as I got
this thing used.
Has anybody else tried the third-party replacement cartridges or refillables?
I'll have more questions about set-up, I'm sure, once I get my cartridges.
Everything seems to work fine, except for no ink.
Bill
5:23 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Brother printer - comments?
On 06/27/2018 09:53 AM, William Morder wrote:
I don't have a lot of money to spend (much less to
waste) on printer
cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP
cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them, the ink
dried up! I don't want to go through that again.)
[...]
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
My laser printers print for about $0.02 per page, including paper. What
does the cheapest inkjet cost per page? And what does it cost per page if
the ink dries up before you use it? Toner will still be just fine in 10 or
20 years if you haven't used it yet, whether in or out of the printer.
If you want to save money on printing, get a laser printer.
5:36 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Brother printer - comments?
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 10:23:02 Dan Youngquist wrote:
On 06/27/2018 09:53 AM, William Morder wrote:
When one has literally no money to spend, one must make do with what is
available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that is
not an option.
There are refillable cartridges, and refill bottles. I doubt that they can dry
up. My old HP cartridges dried up because they sat in a storage space for a
couple years. These won't dry up (at least, not so fast), because I will use
them now.
I'm only asking if anybody else has tried these refillables. I don't want
advice that I *ought* to buy a laser printer, when I cannot do so.
Bill
I don't have a lot of money to spend (much
less to waste) on printer
cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP
cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them, the
ink dried up! I don't want to go through that again.)
[...]
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
My laser printers print for about $0.02 per page, including paper. What
does the cheapest inkjet cost per page? And what does it cost per page if
the ink dries up before you use it? Toner will still be just fine in 10 or
20 years if you haven't used it yet, whether in or out of the printer.
If you want to save money on printing, get a laser printer.
5:42 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Brother printer - comments?
Last time I used refillable cartridges was 20 years ago. I stopped because
of all the leaks made a mess of everything. Hopefully they are better now.
On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 1:36 PM, William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com>
wrote:
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 10:23:02 Dan Youngquist wrote:
if
--
John Pisini
Systems Administrator
TFCCS
617-450-3988
Disclaimer for email:
The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to
this message is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may
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binding legal contract, unless expressly stated otherwise in the body of
the email by the sender.
On 06/27/2018 09:53 AM, William Morder wrote:
> I don't have a lot of money to spend (much less to waste) on printer
> cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP
> cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them,
the
ink dried
up! I don't want to go through that again.)
[...]
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
My laser printers print for about $0.02 per page, including paper. What
does the cheapest inkjet cost per page? And what does it cost per page the ink dries up before you use it? Toner will
still be just fine in 10
or
20 years if you haven't used it yet, whether
in or out of the printer.
If you want to save money on printing, get a laser printer.
When one has literally no money to spend, one must make do with what is
available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that
is
not an option.
There are refillable cartridges, and refill bottles. I doubt that they can
dry
up. My old HP cartridges dried up because they sat in a storage space for
a
couple years. These won't dry up (at least, not so fast), because I will
use
them now.
I'm only asking if anybody else has tried these refillables. I don't want
advice that I *ought* to buy a laser printer, when I cannot do so.
Bill
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5:52 p.m.
New subject: Brother printer - comments?
William Morder wrote:
When one has literally no money to spend, one must
make do with what is
available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that
is not an option.
then go to the copy shop, you can print for about 5cent
There are refillable cartridges, and refill bottles. I
doubt that they can
dry up. My old HP cartridges dried up because they sat in a storage space
for a couple years. These won't dry up (at least, not so fast), because I
will use them now.
This is BS. Just compare cartridge price/printer price for ink and you'll
see that in 2 years you spent more on cartridges
I'm only asking if anybody else has tried these
refillables. I don't want
advice that I *ought* to buy a laser printer, when I cannot do so.
Yes, they are complete BS - forget it!
Alternative could be dot matrix printer (it is a bit noisy), higher price,
but low material cost. I bought one in 1996 and it is still working.
I bought HP 5L LJ in 1999 and I threw it away last year - it was not worth
repearing. I bought two cartridges for €70,- each - makes 7€ per year for
the cartridge. Just calculate total cost + material cost per intended
period of use. You'll notice that prices have gone high in the past year,
but most people can not calculate any way.
I now bought a HP 402dn which prints 40 times faster than the 5L and cost
200,-. The cartridge would cost 100,- in 5-10y, so I guess I will have avg.
cost of 30,- per year - this is definitely not much. There are also cheaper
LJ printers, but I like HP and can write it off anyway.
If you don't have money - earn money and buy something good instead a cheap
sh*t that will give you headache - or just leave it.
regards
5:56 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Brother printer - comments?
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 10:52:04 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
The only way that I can earn money (real money) is by writing, which means
that I need to be able to print out.
I hear what you are saying, but I guess we can stop this thread now, because
what people are saying is irrelevant to my situation.
Bill
When one has literally no money to spend, one
must make do with what is
available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that
is not an option.
then go to the copy shop, you can print for about 5cent
There are refillable cartridges, and refill
bottles. I doubt that they
can dry up. My old HP cartridges dried up because they sat in a storage
space for a couple years. These won't dry up (at least, not so fast),
because I will use them now.
This is BS. Just compare cartridge price/printer price for ink and you'll
see that in 2 years you spent more on cartridges
I'm only asking if anybody else has tried
these refillables. I don't want
advice that I *ought* to buy a laser printer, when I cannot do so.
Yes, they are complete BS - forget it!
Alternative could be dot matrix printer (it is a bit noisy), higher price,
but low material cost. I bought one in 1996 and it is still working.
I bought HP 5L LJ in 1999 and I threw it away last year - it was not worth
repearing. I bought two cartridges for €70,- each - makes 7€ per year for
the cartridge. Just calculate total cost + material cost per intended
period of use. You'll notice that prices have gone high in the past year,
but most people can not calculate any way.
I now bought a HP 402dn which prints 40 times faster than the 5L and cost
200,-. The cartridge would cost 100,- in 5-10y, so I guess I will have avg.
cost of 30,- per year - this is definitely not much. There are also cheaper
LJ printers, but I like HP and can write it off anyway.
If you don't have money - earn money and buy something good instead a cheap
sh*t that will give you headache - or just leave it.
regards
28 Jun
28 Jun
12:50 a.m.
New subject: Brother printer - comments?
William Morder wrote:
The only way that I can earn money (real money) is by
writing, which means
that I need to be able to print out.
Honestly I am not sure one earns real money by writing and that printer is
required for this nowdays. Writing, reading degraded so much in the past
20y, fake news and BS swamped the media and the internet ... Meanwhile I
prefer reading books published before 1918.
Where are you located BTW?
regards
2:41 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: Brother printer - comments?
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 17:50:12 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
I don't have an exact date as my cut-off date, but it does seem that (as
I've
been told by others) I only read books that are otherwise unknown to living
human readers. Also, I don't know if I will make money directly by these
books, but there are many indirect rewards that come as a result of
publishing, and I am trying to make a book that is unlike anything in its
field (or fields).
Already said this earlier, but I'm in San Francisco, possibly the most
expensive place to live on earth. And I don't work in tech, and am a
generation older than the "typical" or stereotypical residents of this city.
On the bright side, though, there are about 150 book publishers in the Bay
area.
Bill
The only way that I can earn money (real money)
is by writing, which
means that I need to be able to print out.
Honestly I am not sure one earns real money by writing and that printer is
required for this nowdays. Writing, reading degraded so much in the past
20y, fake news and BS swamped the media and the internet ... Meanwhile I
prefer reading books published before 1918.
Where are you located BTW?
regards
27 Jun
27 Jun
5:55 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Brother printer - comments?
On 06/27/2018 10:36 AM, William Morder wrote:
When one has literally no money to spend, one must
make do with what is
available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that is
not an option.
Good point. I've bought more than one good laser printer at garage sales
for $3-$10, and they usually have 1000 pages or so of toner in them. I
haven't bought a new printer in over 20 years. Check your local Craigslist,
or post a wanted ad there, and I bet you can find one for way less than the
$40 you're thinking of spending on ink.
Older HP lasers are very cheap to run, and almost all work very well with Linux.
6:01 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Brother printer - comments?
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 10:55:33 Dan Youngquist wrote:
On 06/27/2018 10:36 AM, William Morder wrote:
That is a useful suggestion, but I must put it off for some future world, not
for the present. I could maybe find one used. I looked for used printers
online, but couldn't find any in that range. However, laser printers are
coming down in price. Maybe not this year, but next year, or the next, I
could think about buying a laser.
For the present, though, I must make do with what I have at hand. I only have
about $9 to spare every month, so I have to make my best guess about what
will get me through the next year or so with the inkjet printer that I
actually have, not one that I don't have and can't afford.
Bill
When one has literally no money to spend, one
must make do with what is
available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that
is not an option.
Good point. I've bought more than one good laser printer at garage sales
for $3-$10, and they usually have 1000 pages or so of toner in them. I
haven't bought a new printer in over 20 years. Check your local
Craigslist, or post a wanted ad there, and I bet you can find one for way
less than the $40 you're thinking of spending on ink.
Older HP lasers are very cheap to run, and almost all work very well with
Linux.
28 Jun
28 Jun
10:04 p.m.
New subject: Brother printer - comments?
William Morder wrote:
For the present, though, I must make do with what I
have at hand. I only
have about $9 to spare every month, so I have to make my best guess about
what will get me through the next year or so with the inkjet printer that
I actually have, not one that I don't have and can't afford.
Don't you have some good friend that could print it for you? Each company
can write off the material and the cost for printing, so it costs nothing.
Unfort. I am too far away from you, but I would let you print if you were
here around, unless you print 2000 pages at once.
Option would be also to look for used dot matrix as they are cheep and
reliable. You can print there your drafts, while saving ink for the final
version you would send to the publisher.
regards
10:52 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Brother printer - comments?
On Thursday 28 June 2018 15:04:52 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
This is the thread that will not die!
When I am in the throes of revision or layout, I can print out sometimes 30-50
pp. a day, and even in an average week, 100 pp. is probably about average.
So, no, I don't have a good friend who will do it for free, and paying even 5
cents per page is not feasible.
Even with some other sort of writing that just flows out of me, I need to be
able to see a hard copy for when I revise. My occasional non-fiction pieces
for newspapers or magazines seldom run more than 1000-2000 words, and even
then I like to print out for revision.
These works-in-progress contain, in parts, intricate arguments, and when I
keep trying to revise on a screen, it all turns to a hopeless mush. When I
have a hard copy, I can lay out the pages before me, and better see how to
re-arrange and revise. (Maybe this comes from writing habits which I
developed back in the days before word processors; I still remember when it
was a new thing to be able to use a typewriter.) When I studied computer
technology in school, we spent some weeks learning how to create programs
using IBM punchcards, which we then ran through a conveyor belt, and it
turned on a light bulb. That will give you some idea of what kind of dinosaur
I am. If I could, I would chisel my words into stone, as it would be more
gratifying as a permanent creation.
A dot matrix would be great, if I were only printing out, but I also want to
use the scanner to grab illustrations from various books; books that I cannot
find otherwise in libraries, and which are sometimes difficult to find even
in digital sources.
It could well be that I will live to regret my choice in this matter, but then
I can list it among my bad experiences, or lessons I have yet failed to
learn. Anyway, the choice is made, the order has been sent, so now we can
kill this thread.
Thanks for the offer of using your printer. I will immediately drop
everything, and fly to wherever it is that you live (France?), in order to
save myself pennies per page. (It all adds up!) However, I expect that there
will be a veritable Rabelaisian orgy of food, wine, discussion of old books,
and the noble herb Pantagruelion, as I cannot write without sustenance.
Bill
For the present, though, I must make do with what
I have at hand. I only
have about $9 to spare every month, so I have to make my best guess about
what will get me through the next year or so with the inkjet printer that
I actually have, not one that I don't have and can't afford.
Don't you have some good friend that could print it for you? Each company
can write off the material and the cost for printing, so it costs nothing.
Unfort. I am too far away from you, but I would let you print if you were
here around, unless you print 2000 pages at once.
Option would be also to look for used dot matrix as they are cheep and
reliable. You can print there your drafts, while saving ink for the final
version you would send to the publisher.
regards
9:37 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Brother printer - comments?
late to the conversation..but..I buy my ink cartridges from LD products, about
$7 for HP OfficeJet Pro, and HP 950.
Greg
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 08:53:30 William Morder wrote:
Just got a Brother printer-scanner-copier-fax combo,
model is MFC-495CW, so
if anybody has comments or recommendations from experience, I am all ears.
Here is my model:
https://support.brother.com/g/b/spec.aspx?c=us&lang=en&prod=mfc495c…
I don't have a lot of money to spend (much less to waste) on printer
cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP
cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them, the
ink dried up! I don't want to go through that again.)
I managed to download the drivers for Debian, the product manual,
researched everything I could think of, but now it comes to spending my
last few bucks (literally) on the second-most expensive substance* known in
human history, so I hesitate before using my debit card.
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
Brother, of course, "strongly recommends" not to use third-party, or
refillable cartridges, etc., but I don't have a warranty, anyway, as I got
this thing used.
Has anybody else tried the third-party replacement cartridges or
refillables?
I'll have more questions about set-up, I'm sure, once I get my cartridges.
Everything seems to work fine, except for no ink.
Bill
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9:56 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Brother printer - comments?
On Thursday 28 June 2018 14:37:45 Greg Madden wrote:
late to the conversation..but..I buy my ink cartridges
from LD products,
about $7 for HP OfficeJet Pro, and HP 950.
Greg
Thanks much! It's all grist for the mill.
Bill
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 08:53:30 William Morder wrote:
Just got a Brother printer-scanner-copier-fax
combo, model is MFC-495CW,
so if anybody has comments or recommendations from experience, I am all
ears.
Here is my model:
https://support.brother.com/g/b/spec.aspx?c=us&lang=en&prod=mfc495c…
I don't have a lot of money to spend (much less to waste) on printer
cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP
cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them, the
ink dried up! I don't want to go through that again.)
I managed to download the drivers for Debian, the product manual,
researched everything I could think of, but now it comes to spending my
last few bucks (literally) on the second-most expensive substance* known
in human history, so I hesitate before using my debit card.
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
Brother, of course, "strongly recommends" not to use third-party, or
refillable cartridges, etc., but I don't have a warranty, anyway, as I
got this thing used.
Has anybody else tried the third-party replacement cartridges or
refillables?
I'll have more questions about set-up, I'm sure, once I get my
cartridges. Everything seems to work fine, except for no ink.
Bill
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27 Jul
27 Jul
12:36 p.m.
New subject: aptoncd rejects tde-trinity pkgs
Does anybody know why aptoncd rejects all TDE-Trinity packages? I am running
Devuan Jessie (or sometimes, Debian Jessie ...).
I have no problem with other Debian/Devuan packages; I can even get it to
accept the odd older package from Wheezy). In the past, when I experimented
with trying to burn aptoncd discs, I discovered that I could not burn (for
example) discs for Kubuntu Precise while running Kubuntu Hardy, because the
system interpreted all packages as intended for Hardy. I even changed my apt
sources.list to Precise repositories, thinking I might fool the system, but
this didn't work, either.
So I thought it would be no problem to burn Trinity packages for my current
system, as everything runs on Jessie. I suppose it is not too inconvenient to
install from an external drive using dpkg, but I would prefer to keep my
packages on discs, as it makes installation and reinstallation faster and
more reliable for my situation.
Thanks for any help.
Bill
4:18 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] aptoncd rejects tde-trinity pkgs
Am Freitag 27 Juli 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Does anybody know why aptoncd rejects all TDE-Trinity
packages? I am
running Devuan Jessie (or sometimes, Debian Jessie ...).
What do you mean by "reject"? What error message do you get?
By the way, aptoncd has been removed from Debian, see:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=885946
aptoncd -- RoQA; unmaintained; not in testing for 2.5 years
The Website says "Status: Pre-Alpha" and "This project has no files."
See: https://sourceforge.net/projects/aptoncd/files/
The latest news on http://aptoncd.sourceforge.net/ are from: 2007.03.14
This tool seems to be unmaintained and not developed since many years. It's
probably broken, I think.
Kind regards,
Stefan
10:43 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] aptoncd rejects tde-trinity pkgs
On Friday 27 July 2018 09:18:50 Stefan Krusche wrote:
Am Freitag 27 Juli 2018 schrieb William Morder:
I will run it again and copy the error message.
Does anybody know why aptoncd rejects all
TDE-Trinity packages? I am
running Devuan Jessie (or sometimes, Debian Jessie ...).
What do you mean by "reject"? What error message do you get?
By the way, aptoncd has been removed from Debian, see:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=885946
aptoncd -- RoQA; unmaintained; not in testing for 2.5 years
Huh ... I downloaded it from the Debian Jessie repositories. I will look into
it. I need some kind of solution like it, so that I can install when I don't
have Internet access.
The Website says "Status: Pre-Alpha" and
"This project has no files."
See: https://sourceforge.net/projects/aptoncd/files/
The latest news on http://aptoncd.sourceforge.net/ are from: 2007.03.14
This tool seems to be unmaintained and not developed since many years. It's
probably broken, I think.
Kind regards,
Stefan
Actually, my ideal solution would be to use flash drives as my personal
repositories. (That way, I don't keep wasting DVDs and CDs.) Somehow or
other, I got that trick working with Kubuntu Hardy many years. I just set up
the address of the drive with the prefix "deb" or "deb-src" and it
worked;
but now I can't get it going.
I downloaded the DVD images of Debian packages, but apt will not recognize
them when I try to add them as sources.
Bill
2 Aug
2 Aug
4:21 a.m.
New subject: pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
Has anybody else had this problem? On reboots I started getting an error
message in the startup shell (never getting to the login screen):
"Failed to create secure directory
//.config/pulse
I searched the forums, tried various solutions, and eventually just purged
everything possible that I could find connected to pulse. (I always preferred
ALSA, anyway.) Some Trinity packages seem to depend on pulse or pulse
libraries, though, so I wonder if it's possible to get rid of everything
pulse without breaking my system.
On a side note, I have similar problems with VLC. I cannot actually *use* it,
as it crashes every time. I have made do with smplayer, which is okay, I
guess, but I still miss the old VLC. When I try to uninstall or purge VLC,
however, I find that it would also uninstall practically all my KDE and TDE
packages.
I don't know if the two are related, but if I am not using them, or they cause
problems, then I'd like to get rid of them completely.
All help or observations are welcome.
Bill
4:41 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
On Wed August 1 2018 21:21:32 William Morder wrote:
Has anybody else had this problem? On reboots I
started getting an error
message in the startup shell (never getting to the login screen):
Assuming that you have shadow passwords enabled please post the output
of "grep root /etc/passwd".
If you don't have shadow passwords please either sanitize the above
output before posting or else post "finger root".
Please repeat the above for the user you are trying to run vlc with.
"Failed to create secure directory
//.config/pulse
Odd. Instead of "//" I would have expected a user's home path.
I searched the forums, tried various solutions, and
eventually just purged
everything possible that I could find connected to pulse. (I always
preferred ALSA, anyway.) Some Trinity packages seem to depend on pulse or
pulse libraries, though, so I wonder if it's possible to get rid of
everything pulse without breaking my system.
On a side note, I have similar problems with VLC. I cannot actually *use*
it, as it crashes every time. I have made do with smplayer, which is okay,
I guess, but I still miss the old VLC. When I try to uninstall or purge
VLC, however, I find that it would also uninstall practically all my KDE
and TDE packages.
I don't know if the two are related, but if I am not using them, or they
cause problems, then I'd like to get rid of them completely.
All help or observations are welcome.
Please post the (sanitized if necessary) output of "grep audio /etc/group"
and of "ls -Rl /dev/snd".
You've made a lot of changes to your system that you've mentioned on this
list including removing packages and (IIRC) clobbering file permissions.
This makes it hard to diagnose problems with your configuration.
Please post the output of "dpkg -l | cat" and I'll see if it looks
feasible to get any of my test boxes somewhere near your current load.
--Mike
4:54 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
William Morder composed on 2018-08-01 21:21 (UTC-0700):
I wonder if it's possible to get rid of everything
> pulse without breaking my system.
Not if you want sound from any version of
Firefox less than around 2 years old.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
6:55 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
On Wednesday 01 August 2018 21:54:22 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-08-01 21:21
(UTC-0700):
I don't use sound in any of my browsers. I don't use "live" content, but
rather download it and watch or listen on a media player.
Anyway, my browsers are the newest available in Debian Jessie.
However, it seems like pulse is getting forced on us, like it or not. Or is
this not so?
Bill
I wonder if it's possible to get rid of
everything > pulse without
breaking my system.
Not if you want sound from any version of Firefox less than around 2 years
old.
6:53 p.m.
New subject: pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
William Morder wrote:
However, it seems like pulse is getting forced on us,
like it or not. Or
is this not so?
It happened many moons ago already.
youmust know pulse is session based, so it starts with the session. As Mike
Bird said, the home path of the user is missing for some reason.
You can try creating new user and see if it works there. this will help to
narrow down the problem
regards
5 Aug
5 Aug
6:01 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
On Thursday 02 August 2018 11:53:49 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
Sorry to vanish in mid-thread; a combination of this ongoing problem, which
forces me to reinstall my system every other day, and personal stuff in the
real world.
Anyway ... if this reads like a novel, I plead not guilty by reason of
insanity, or poetic license. I am not a geek, so please bear with me.
I did read the other comments; however, my home folder has remained
essentially the same through several different operating systems, from the
KDE3 desktop with PC Linux in about 2006, through Hardy Heron 8.04 Kubuntu,
various KDE3 hacks of Lucid 10.04 and later, attempts at TDE on Ubuntu from
10.04 onwards, until at last Debian Jessie ran pretty well, except for
systemd, and I had Devuan running great with no problem. This stuff seems to
have come out of nowhere, as I haven't really changed anything in my
configuration, except to adapt as necessary, and I haven't changed anything
in Debian or Devuan. I had it running for three months or so without touching
anything, and now this.... Despite what Mike Bird may believe, I have not
changed any permissions in this stuff since 2006.
Also I hesitate to post all the items Mike requests, as there is such a thing
as too much; however, I may get desperate and submit. Besides, it seems too
much for Mike to try to run everything that I have on my system, as I try out
a lot of different software, then gradually strip it down to what I need and
what works.
1. Having gone into the config folder
/home/<USER>/.config/pulse/
I did find a cookie file with rw permissions only. (I assume that this ought
to be rw-r-r, am I right?) However, this would not be my doing, as I
generally haven't ever used pulseaudio until it was forced on me in Debian;
and, as I said, I haven't really changed anything in my config since for
ever.
Most of my problems with pulse have already disappeared, though, as I purged
everything possible that is connected to pulse. There are only two files
remaining, both libpulse*-type stuff, and they seem to be necessary, as when
I try to remove them, apt wants to uninstall practically everything TDE or
Trinity on my system. Anyway, these lines have disappeared in my startup
shell:
"Failed to create secure directory
//.config/pulse
so pulse does not seem to be the root cause. However, I just checked top, and
even though I have purged everything of pulseaudio, it still runs as a
process!
2. Now the plot thickens. Maybe somebody will recognize these details. I
purged everything to do with pulse, except for two files which appear to be
essential dependencies. Now when I booted up, I got these lines:
(EE) Fatal server error
Could not create lock file in /tmp/.tXO-lock
and
tdm [2692] error: X server died during startup
X server for display :0 can't be started, session disabled
I tried removing the lock file via command-line, and got this;
rm: cannot remove 'XO-lock' Read-only file system
This seems to be caused by some conflict between Debian and Devuan packages. I
tried removing everything systemd, but that caused problems. I installed
Devuan packages, and made init my PID 1. I removed systemd-sysv, but didn't
do a total purge of systemd stuff, and it ran great, "purring like a kitten"
(as I said too quickly), and then this crap.
Bill
P.S. Running Devuan Jessie on i386 Frankenstein hardware.
However, it seems like pulse is getting forced on
us, like it or not. Or
is this not so?
It happened many moons ago already.
youmust know pulse is session based, so it starts with the session. As Mike
Bird said, the home path of the user is missing for some reason.
You can try creating new user and see if it works there. this will help to
narrow down the problem
regards
9:28 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
Hello Bill,
Am Sonntag 05 August 2018 schrieb William Morder:
(EE) Fatal server error
Could not create lock file in /tmp/.tXO-lock
and
tdm [2692] error: X server died during startup
X server for display :0 can't be started, session disabled
I tried removing the lock file via command-line, and got this;
rm: cannot remove 'XO-lock' Read-only file system
I lost track about the original problem, but this error does not seem to have
any relation to pulse. Look at the messages. The X server died because of
read-only mounted file system. This seems to be the root of the actual problem.
I only ever have encountered read-only mounted file systems during boot mostly
because missing file systems or errors of which.
This seems to be caused by some conflict between
Debian and Devuan
packages.
Why would you ever mix Devuan and Debian? Devuan basically *is* Debian exept a
few packages without dependencies to systemd stuff. Devuan explicitly says not
to mix with Debian.
If you want to get rid of systemd choose a straight upgrade path from Debian to
Devuan like described on their website and enjoy.
I tried removing everything systemd, but that caused
problems. I
installed Devuan packages, and made init my PID 1. I removed systemd-sysv,
but didn't do a total purge of systemd stuff, and it ran great, "purring
like a kitten" (as I said too quickly), and then this crap.
See from the outside this is far too vague (for me at least) to guess what you
actually did and if or how you broke something. If you're running Debian there
are ways to use sysvinit as init system, but you shouldn't install Devuan
packages in a Debian, I think. Run either Debian or Devuan. There lies no
advantage in mixing them, I'm quite certain.
HTH,
kind regards,
Stefan
10:23 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
Hi Bill,
As Stefan noted, there's too much being changed and too little information
for us to help you. You probably have a quarter million or more files
on your system - enough files that if they were printed out they would fill
a small library. And you're changing things. And computers are very fussy
eaters. We have no idea what you have on your system so how can we tell
you where it is broken?
For best results start with a clean install and only change what you
understand. Thoroughly test one change before trying another. Keep
good backups so you can back away from mistakes.
On Sat August 4 2018 23:01:10 William Morder wrote:
Sorry to vanish in mid-thread; a combination of this
ongoing problem,
which forces me to reinstall my system every other day
Does the system run correctly after installing? Precisely what changes
to break things? Is your hardware reliable?
my home folder has remained essentially the same
through several
different operating systems
Don't restore your entire home folder - it contains lots of config that's
probably obsolete or incompatible. Restore only specific user files
such as documents, photos, music, etc.
I did find a cookie file with rw permissions only. (I
assume that this
ought to be rw-r-r, am I right?)
Probably not. There's no reason for other users to read your configs.
Could not create lock file in /tmp/.tXO-lock
As Stefan noted, this is where you should start. Check your syslog from
boot to this point to find an explanation of why your root filesystem
was either remounted read-only or was not remounted read-write.
This seems to be caused by some conflict between
Debian and Devuan packages.
This is somewhat unlikely as the two are very compatible and mostly identical.
--Mike
5:01 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
On Sunday 05 August 2018 03:23:13 Mike Bird wrote:
I restore config files, settings, and so on, unless they give me problems. I
understand what you're saying, but if I wanted to start from scratch every
time, and could not modify my system, then I might as well run Windoze.
I will keep an eye on this, as in any case something is causing this issue. If
I can find what is making the root filesystem read-only, that will solve the
problem.
Yes, thanks, I am combing through my syslog files.
I think it's partly because I migrate to init, but cannot entirely get rid of
systemd stuff.
Hi Bill,
As Stefan noted, there's too much being changed and too little information
for us to help you. You probably have a quarter million or more files
on your system - enough files that if they were printed out they would fill
a small library.
Although, yes, I probably have too much installed, I do this because I test a
lot of different software, then strip down to what I want. For example, I try
out all the different media players, but I don't keep them all.
I think maybe you are interpreting my words too literally, though. I backup my
home directory, as well as parts of etc, and certain config files, to another
hard drive. I don't generally overwrite my home folder and start with a fresh
installation, unless I run into obstacles that defeat all my efforts.
And you're changing things. And computers are
very fussy
eaters. We have no idea what you have on your system so how can we tell
you where it is broken?
Not sure what you mean by changing things. As I said, I keep what works and
has been stable; which is why I backup my home folder, then look to copy over
my configuration where it is possible. I don't want to keep reinventing the
wheel.
For best results start with a clean install and only
change what you
understand. Thoroughly test one change before trying another. Keep
good backups so you can back away from mistakes.
On Sat August 4 2018 23:01:10 William Morder wrote:
Everything runs fine until I change to TDE. I install Debian, migrate to
Devuan, purge LibreOffice, then reboot. Then I install TDE and reboot. It is
usually on the second reboot, after I have installed TDE packages, that I see
this error.
Sorry to vanish in mid-thread; a combination of
this ongoing problem,
which forces me to reinstall my system every other day
Does the system run correctly after installing? Precisely what changes
to break things? Is your hardware reliable?
my home folder
has remained essentially the same through several
different operating systems
Don't restore your entire home folder - it contains lots of config that's
probably obsolete or incompatible. Restore only specific user files
such as documents, photos, music, etc. I did find a
cookie file with rw permissions only. (I assume that this
ought to be rw-r-r, am I right?)
Probably not. There's no reason for other users to read your configs.
Could not
create lock file in /tmp/.tXO-lock
As Stefan noted, this is where you should start. Check your syslog from
boot to this point to find an explanation of why your root filesystem
was either remounted read-only or was not remounted read-write.
This seems to
be caused by some conflict between Debian and Devuan
packages.
This is somewhat unlikely as the two are very compatible and mostly
identical.
--Mike
Thanks for your patience, and detailed response.
Bill
7:42 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
On Sun August 5 2018 10:01:21 William Morder wrote:
Everything runs fine until I change to TDE. I install
Debian, migrate to
Devuan, purge LibreOffice, then reboot. Then I install TDE and reboot. It
is usually on the second reboot, after I have installed TDE packages, that
I see this error.
Hi Bill,
FYI although I am testing Devuan Ascii with TDE PSB, my wife's system is
running Devuan Jessie with TDE Stable. Although she has more degrees
than I my wife is not a computer geek. And yet I cannot recall the last
time she encountered a problem with her Devuan Jessie / TDE Stable system.
To produce a working system such as that I install only what is needed
for her. I do not install KDE 4 and then remove it. I do not copy
broken config files into a working home folder. And when migrating from
Debian to Devuan or upgrading from one version to the next I carefully
test the process a half dozen times or more while taking detailed notes
before migrating her system or any other production system.
Although my wife knows her root password she uses it perhaps once every
other year. Reliable production computers are useful. Experimenting
with computers and learning from them is useful in a different way. The
two don't mix. It is not reasonable to make massive changes or install
ten year old config files and then ask us why your system is broken and
THEN decline to tell us the full details of what you did to arrive at
that state.
If you can't find a cheap old laptop to experiment on, please at least
consider trying to set aside space for a production partition separate
from your current test partition. Then carefully build your production
partition ... and don't mess with it!
--Mike
6 Aug
6 Aug
7:13 a.m.
New subject: pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
William Morder wrote:
Although, yes, I probably have too much installed, I
do this because I
test a lot of different software, then strip down to what I want. For
example, I try out all the different media players, but I don't keep them
all.
when you test something you do not do it on your production system. you do
it on a test system. In real life we use many test systems to bring a
software to production. When it is on production - there is one rule: never
touch a running/production system!
So just get a test system and do the testing there. Install and change on
production only what you understand and really need.
Keep a clean image(backup) for the test system is also a good idea, so that
you do not have to install from scratch
regards
2 Aug
2 Aug
8:15 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
Am Donnerstag 02 August 2018 schrieb William Morder:
I searched the forums, tried various solutions, and
eventually just purged
everything possible that I could find connected to pulse. (I always
preferred ALSA, anyway.) Some Trinity packages seem to depend on pulse or
pulse libraries, though, so I wonder if it's possible to get rid of
everything pulse without breaking my system.
On a side note, I have similar problems with VLC. I cannot actually *use*
it, as it crashes every time. I have made do with smplayer, which is okay,
I guess, but I still miss the old VLC. When I try to uninstall or purge
VLC, however, I find that it would also uninstall practically all my KDE
and TDE packages.
I don't think that TDE depends on pulse, at least not the base libraries. I have
not *all* TDE packages installed, but quite a copious install and there is no
pulse (on Devuan ascii).
If you find a pulse program/package you can try to find out why it is installed
with this handy command:
$ aptitude why <package>
Kind regards,
Stefan
11:11 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 10:15:22 +0200
Stefan Krusche <linux(a)stefan-krusche.de> wrote:
Am Donnerstag 02 August 2018 schrieb William Morder:
KDE3 predated pulseaudio, so I find it unlikely that any Trinity package has
a hard dependency on it. None of the packages I have installed even have
it as an optional dependency, so nothing in tdebase uses it.
In general, if you're using the simple setup of a single set of wired speakers
or headphones, and are content with a single master volume control, you
don't need pulseaudio, whatever your distro's package manager may claim
(if you need media support in Firefox, try installing apulse instead). Other
than that, well, I've encountered one cheap game from Humble Bundle
that wouldn't play nice with my ALSA-only setup.
E. Liddell
I searched the forums, tried various solutions,
and eventually just purged
everything possible that I could find connected to pulse. (I always
preferred ALSA, anyway.) Some Trinity packages seem to depend on pulse or
pulse libraries, though, so I wonder if it's possible to get rid of
everything pulse without breaking my system.
On a side note, I have similar problems with VLC. I cannot actually *use*
it, as it crashes every time. I have made do with smplayer, which is okay,
I guess, but I still miss the old VLC. When I try to uninstall or purge
VLC, however, I find that it would also uninstall practically all my KDE
and TDE packages.
I don't think that TDE depends on pulse, at least not the base libraries. I have
not *all* TDE packages installed, but quite a copious install and there is no
pulse (on Devuan ascii).
5 Aug
5 Aug
6:19 a.m.
New subject: antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried this distro?
https://antixlinux.com/
https://antixlinux.com/about/
https://antixlinux.com/antix-16-3-full-iso-files-available/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/antix-linux/files/Final/antiX-16/
https://antixlinux.com/download/https://ftp.nluug.nl/os/Linux/distr/mxlinux…
It is based on Debian, but without systemd, has a KDE4 desktop, but not a lot
of excess crap. It comes as a live CD, and can function as a rescue disc, as
well; would be nicer with TDE installed, but we can't get everything we want.
Also has a net install version, but this requires Ethernet.
Most of the images fit on a CD, and the base images come without LibreOffice
(for those of us out there who, like me, hate it). In any case, it was
created without systemd from the start. By the way, it is hosted in the MEPIS
repositories, or so I read somewhere.
I intend to give it a try on my next system reinstallation.
Bill
6:43 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
William Morder composed on 2018-08-04 23:19 (UTC-0700):
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried this
distro?
https://antixlinux.com/
https://antixlinux.com/about/
https://antixlinux.com/antix-16-3-full-iso-files-available/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/antix-linux/files/Final/antiX-16/
https://antixlinux.com/download/https://ftp.nluug.nl/os/Linux/distr/mxlinux…
It is based on Debian, but without systemd, has a KDE4
desktop, but not a lot
of excess crap. It comes as a live CD, and can function as a rescue disc, as
well; would be nicer with TDE installed, but we can't get everything we want.
Also has a net install version, but this requires Ethernet.
Most of the images fit on a CD, and the base images
come without LibreOffice
(for those of us out there who, like me, hate it). In any case, it was
created without systemd from the start. By the way, it is hosted in the MEPIS
repositories, or so I read somewhere.
I intend to give it a try on my next system
reinstallation.
I gave it a try back when TDE was part of the AntiX distribution. It was nice
enough except for an incompatibility with my multiboot methodology, which keeps
a single partition with many apps, scripts and more I install outside the
package management system for mounting as /usr/local/. AntiX keeps much of its
differentiation from straight Debian in /usr/local/ in directories of the same
names I use instead of /opt/, so instead of trying to figure out a way to work
around the shared directories problems I simply dropped the idea of using it at all.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
6:55 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
On Saturday 04 August 2018 10:43:59 pm Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-08-04 23:19
(UTC-0700):
I use AntiX in a VM, to sandbox a web browser.
Originally used AntiX (xfce) and MX Linux (icewm) for low resource machines.
Part of a recycle older hardware plan. Not so much these days.
AntiX just works though tried to install TDE, failed, did not try harder.
greg
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried
this distro?
https://antixlinux.com/
https://antixlinux.com/about/
https://antixlinux.com/antix-16-3-full-iso-files-available/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/antix-linux/files/Final/antiX-16/
https://antixlinux.com/download/https://ftp.nluug.nl/os/Linux/distr/mxlin
ux-cd/ANTIX/Final/antiX-17.1/
It is based on Debian, but without systemd, has a KDE4 desktop, but not a
lot of excess crap. It comes as a live CD, and can function as a rescue
disc, as well; would be nicer with TDE installed, but we can't get
everything we want. Also has a net install version, but this requires
Ethernet.
Most of the images fit on a CD, and the base images come without
LibreOffice (for those of us out there who, like me, hate it). In any
case, it was created without systemd from the start. By the way, it is
hosted in the MEPIS repositories, or so I read somewhere.
I intend to give it a try on my next system reinstallation.
I gave it a try back when TDE was part of the AntiX distribution. It was
nice enough except for an incompatibility with my multiboot methodology,
which keeps a single partition with many apps, scripts and more I install
outside the package management system for mounting as /usr/local/. AntiX
keeps much of its differentiation from straight Debian in /usr/local/ in
directories of the same names I use instead of /opt/, so instead of trying
to figure out a way to work around the shared directories problems I simply
dropped the idea of using it at all.
6:59 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
On Saturday 04 August 2018 23:43:59 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-08-04 23:19
(UTC-0700):
When I was doing multiboot systems, I gave up on shared directories (like
home). Instead, I just created two completely separate systems; two home
folders, two root folders, etc., and that worked pretty well. When I needed
to copy something from one home folder to another, that was a hassle, but
viable, and better than a broken system. I didn't like the idea of duplicated
(wasted) space, but it was the best solution. I ran like that on a laptop,
while I was learning Debian, with a Hardy Heron as the other system.
My Hardy Kubuntu 8.04 configuration still runs like a top, when I install it
on a machine; except that it is mostly unusable for Internet now, due to lack
of security updates, patches, etc.
Hardy Heron with KDE3 (the only machine I've ever loved) is basically what I
am trying to recreate on TDE. It looks almost identical, but doesn't quite
run as smoothly.
Well, since I am not doing multiboot at the moment, maybe AntiX will work for
me.
*fingers crossed*
Bill
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried
this distro?
https://antixlinux.com/
https://antixlinux.com/about/
https://antixlinux.com/antix-16-3-full-iso-files-available/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/antix-linux/files/Final/antiX-16/
https://antixlinux.com/download/https://ftp.nluug.nl/os/Linux/distr/mxlin
ux-cd/ANTIX/Final/antiX-17.1/
It is based on Debian, but without systemd, has a KDE4 desktop, but not a
lot of excess crap. It comes as a live CD, and can function as a rescue
disc, as well; would be nicer with TDE installed, but we can't get
everything we want. Also has a net install version, but this requires
Ethernet.
Most of the images fit on a CD, and the base images come without
LibreOffice (for those of us out there who, like me, hate it). In any
case, it was created without systemd from the start. By the way, it is
hosted in the MEPIS repositories, or so I read somewhere.
I intend to give it a try on my next system reinstallation.
I gave it a try back when TDE was part of the AntiX distribution. It was
nice enough except for an incompatibility with my multiboot methodology,
which keeps a single partition with many apps, scripts and more I install
outside the package management system for mounting as /usr/local/. AntiX
keeps much of its differentiation from straight Debian in /usr/local/ in
directories of the same names I use instead of /opt/, so instead of trying
to figure out a way to work around the shared directories problems I simply
dropped the idea of using it at all.
2:58 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
On 08/04/2018 11:19 PM, William Morder wrote:
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried this
distro?
https://antixlinux.com/
I've had it on the laptop on which I'm typing for a year or so. It works
fine, and TDE installed with no problems. The only thing I don't like about
it is that it uses wicd for the network manager, which I don't really care
for with wifi. So I've been intending to change it to MX Linux, which also
works fine for me on several machines.
--
PGP key: http://homestead-products.com/pubkey.htm
4:48 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
On Sunday 05 August 2018 07:58:56 Dan Youngquist wrote:
On 08/04/2018 11:19 PM, William Morder wrote:
I already install TDE over Debian Jessie with the KDE desktop, so I figured it
wouldn't be any more difficult than that. And the fact that it runs init and
not systemd is also good, as I think some of my problems are due to having to
migrate from Debian to Devuan. I've never been able to do a successful
installation directly from a Devuan disc, but must install Debian, then
Devuan, then TDE, then uninstall LibreOffice and install OpenOffice, etc. And
cannot do net install here, so I need to use a live disc. If my circumstances
were different, then I would probably take a different approach.
AntiX, too, sounds like their build without systemd is more integrated, so
that I don't need to do a lot of messing. And it is for older machines, which
describes both my desktop and laptop. (My desktop is currently using a laptop
hard drive as sda1, with a minimal home directory, a fairly large root
partition, four internal hard drives, two external hard drives, and numerous
serial devices attached.) So a minimalist distro is probably better for my
needs.
Again, I can work with wicd, but it is not my networkmanager of choice; I'd
much prefer to use tdenetworkmanager, but somehow that is causing me
connection problems, whereas I can force my connection to behave by using a
combination of command-line and wicd. Not how I'd like it to be, perhaps, but
it works, which is better than the alternative.
Thanks for everybody's input. I just wanted to know if it was worth wasting my
time. For the present, Devuan Jessie seems to behave, but I'll wait and see a
few days more.
This would all be a lot simpler (at least, from a certain point of view) if I
still had the luxury of an entire room dedicated to computers, parts, etc.,
where I had several different machines always running, or being rebuilt
(including a Commodore Amiga 64, and a Mac Classic II), which allowed me more
experimentation. I've never been a real geek; more a self-hacker, out of
necessity. Now I must experiment on the same two machines that I need to use
for work and life. Oh well ... we work with what we have.
Bill
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried
this distro?
https://antixlinux.com/
I've had it on the laptop on which I'm typing for a year or so. It works
fine, and TDE installed with no problems. The only thing I don't like
about it is that it uses wicd for the network manager, which I don't really
care for with wifi. So I've been intending to change it to MX Linux, which
also works fine for me on several machines.
6 Aug
6 Aug
5 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 12:48 PM, William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com>
wrote:
On Sunday 05 August 2018 07:58:56 Dan Youngquist wrote:
> On 08/04/2018 11:19 PM, William Morder wrote:
> > Just wondering if anybody out there has tried this distro?
> >
> > https://antixlinux.com/
I'm impressed. I haven't used this for a few years so I downloaded it and
I have it running in VMWare it is impressive they not only use Stretch
sources not Devuan which is a real surprise to me (they are using pinning
to keep systemd off) but a full usable desktop in an 800mb download. I
haven't tried Trinity on it yet but so far it seems to run very well. They
don't have have pulseaudio installed but Firefox has sound I am definitely
going to have to look into that some more. Seems to be using something
called apulse which I am not familiar with may be something they wrote not
sure yet.
6:58 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
https://antixlinux.com/
Good information.
Is the desktop similar to Trinity desktop ?
Thanks,
André
7:07 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
No it defaults to IceWM you can install Trinity if you want. Trinity is a
desktop enviroment where IceWM is a window manager. It uses scripts to call
seperate tools to do what you need.
On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 2:58 PM, <andre_debian(a)numericable.fr> wrote:
https://antixlinux.com/
Good information.
Is the desktop similar to Trinity desktop ?
Thanks,
André
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7 Aug
7 Aug
1:34 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 13:00:27 -0400
"Pisini, John" <pisinij(a)csps.com> wrote:
They
don't have have pulseaudio installed but Firefox has sound I am definitely
going to have to look into that some more. Seems to be using something
called apulse which I am not familiar with may be something they wrote not
sure yet.
If I recall correctly, apulse was originally created as a shim for the desktop
version of Skype.
https://github.com/i-rinat/apulse
E. Liddell
