17 Feb
2018
17 Feb
'18
11:15 p.m.
Last post ack the list archives was in August 2017, after which the list
was silent, and my msgs were apparently routed to /dev/null. But I
didn't unsubscribe.
My ISP has been known to block/bounce but pearsoncomputing.net was in
their "whitelist", I put it there yonks ago.
Anyway, I'm glad to be back.
--
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
18 Feb
18 Feb
12:19 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] I just resubscribed, but the 64$ question is how did I get removed?
Hi Gene!
Was already missing you. Did you get unsubscribed on the linuxcnc list, too?
Nik
Am Sonntag, 18. Februar 2018 schrieb Gene Heskett:
Last post ack the list archives was in August 2017,
after which the list
was silent, and my msgs were apparently routed to /dev/null. But I
didn't unsubscribe.
My ISP has been known to block/bounce but pearsoncomputing.net was in
their "whitelist", I put it there yonks ago.
Anyway, I'm glad to be back.
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
10:25 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] I just resubscribed, but the 64$ question is how did I get removed?
On Sunday 18 February 2018 07:19:36 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Hi Gene!
Was already missing you. Did you get unsubscribed on the linuxcnc
list, too?
Nik
No Nik. its been ticking right along here.
Am Sonntag, 18. Februar 2018 schrieb Gene Heskett:
> Last post ack the list archives was in August 2017, after which the
> list was silent, and my msgs were apparently routed to /dev/null.
> But I didn't unsubscribe.
>
> My ISP has been known to block/bounce but pearsoncomputing.net was
> in their "whitelist", I put it there yonks ago.
>
> Anyway, I'm glad to be back.
--
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
12:53 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] I just resubscribed, but the 64$ question is how did I get removed?
On Saturday 17 February 2018 15:15:09 Gene Heskett wrote:
Last post ack the list archives was in August 2017,
after which the list
was silent, and my msgs were apparently routed to /dev/null. But I
didn't unsubscribe.
My ISP has been known to block/bounce but pearsoncomputing.net was in
their "whitelist", I put it there yonks ago.
Anyway, I'm glad to be back.
Hello, all!
Gmail has somehow managed to unsubscribe me twice, and I have had to
resubscribe. Gmail also gives me grief in a lot of other ways, and marks one
of the subscribers (Klepp, I believe?) as spam, even after I have whitelisted
his address countless times. It might be his .biz address.
I just resubscribed using zoho.com as my email. I am currently
collecting several new email addresses to use as throwaways, but zoho works
pretty well. I hear good things about Yandex, too. If anybody else has
suggestions for good free email accounts (that are also secure, and
reasonably private), I would be glad to hear about them.
I have a few comments to make about installing and running Trinity (general
and specific), but I will post these separately. I've been a mostly silent
subscriber to the mailing list almost since the Trinity project was started,
or when they tried to kill KDE3 ... since maybe 2008, maybe earlier.
Bill
10:27 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] I just resubscribed, but the 64$ question is how did I get removed?
On Sunday 18 February 2018 07:53:34 William Morder wrote:
On Saturday 17 February 2018 15:15:09 Gene Heskett
wrote:
gmail, AFAIK is not in this pool.
Last post ack the list archives was in August
2017, after which the
list was silent, and my msgs were apparently routed to /dev/null.
But I didn't unsubscribe.
My ISP has been known to block/bounce but pearsoncomputing.net was
in their "whitelist", I put it there yonks ago.
Anyway, I'm glad to be back.
Hello, all!
Gmail has somehow managed to unsubscribe me twice, and I have had to
resubscribe. Gmail also gives me grief in a lot of other ways, and
marks one of the subscribers (Klepp, I believe?) as spam, even after I
have whitelisted his address countless times. It might be his .biz
address.
I just resubscribed using zoho.com as my email. I am
currently
collecting several new email addresses to use as throwaways, but zoho
works pretty well. I hear good things about Yandex, too. If anybody
else has suggestions for good free email accounts (that are also
secure, and reasonably private), I would be glad to hear about them.
This is the account at my ISP, shentel.net.
I have a few comments to make about installing and
running Trinity
(general and specific), but I will post these separately. I've been a
mostly silent subscriber to the mailing list almost since the Trinity
project was started, or when they tried to kill KDE3 ... since maybe
2008, maybe earlier.
Yeah. that was surely a bad dog, no bisquit scene.
Bill
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read
list messages on the web archive:
http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to
top-post:
http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
--
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
1:41 p.m.
New subject: tips on getting TDE to run smoothly
I've been trying out TDE off and on since the project started; ever since they
killed KDE3, and I looked around for something as usable and practical as the
KDE3x desktop (which I first used on PC Linux, and later on Ubuntu Hardy
8.04).
When trying to install over various 'buntus (mostly Ubuntu, Kubuntu or
Lubuntu), I always ran into problems, and always was forced to abandon TDE. I
kept a running copy of Hardy 8.04 on a separate partition, just so I could
get work done, but it kept getting more and more outdated, and seriously
insecure; yet none of the alternatives were working. Finally Hardy 8.04
ceased to be functional or practical, and I was forced to do something new
and different, so I resolved to learn how properly to install and configure a
Debian system with TDE, and am glad to report nearly complete success, with
only a few nagging bugs, most of which are fairly small.
My big breakthrough came when I realized that even after I had installed TDE,
and no longer ran the newer versions of KDE4/5 (whatever) or Gnome, that my
newer KDE settings were somehow "bleeding over" into my TDE desktop
environment. (I mean, for example, colors, and various other configurations,
in Firefox, soundKonverter, Mousepad, and lots of other programs; these use
the KDE settings, and look like the KDE4/5 desktop, whereas other programs
have a TDE appearance, even when they are not programs specific to KDE4/5.) I
believe that this has something to do with TDE's use of that /opt folder,
since it is installed to ride piggyback, as it were, on top of another
system, and has yet to be released as its own stand-alone system. (I've tried
the TDE installation discs for Kubuntu 10.04, 12.04, 14.04, as well as
Devuan, Q4OS, exeGNU, and maybe three or four others; and had those same
problems, where the system eventually became unusuable, and I was forced to
abandon it.)
What I did seems a little counterintuitive, but it might help others. Then
again, it might seem obvious to many of the readers out there, but perhaps it
will help some users, at least the n00bs. And maybe others will have their
own observations to add to this thread.
I installed Debian Jessie 8.8.0 with the latest KDE desktop, and did not
bother at all with TDE for at least a month or two. Instead, I went through
all my settings for KDE, and tweaked and reconfigured obsessively, until I
got KDE to run fairly smoothly. I disabled all the unnecessary bells &
whistles in KDE that hog the CPU; I went into window-specific settings, and
forced "focus stealing prevention" (set for "extreme" in most cases).
I
disabled my network managers (wicd, et al.) from connecting automatically;
and so on, and so on. There are a million little tweaks and configurations
and refinements I could list, but maybe I will start separate threads for as
many of them as I can remember, and others can add their own.
Sorry to run on, and risk making this into an epic tale; but the short version
is: Only after I had got KDE running as well as can be expected (from such
piece of crap), then I enabled the Trinity repositories, and installed the
TDE desktop; and, voila! presto! TDE works almost without a hitch, the same
desktop pretty much that I have used, which keeps all my work organized and
accessible, and allows me to be in control of my own system - the only
desktop I've ever loved.
In other words, it was the KDE desktop environment, and the default settings
therein, which were interfering with the smooth operation of TDE. It seems to
me that TDE is pretty much ready for release into the standard repositories;
although my brief bit of research has discovered that a lot entities out
there want to block its inclusion in the repositories.
So I am wondering: Is there is some way that TDE can get into the regular
repositories (Debian, Ubuntu, etc.)? or if a dependable stand-alone
installation disc image can be developed (which does not ride on top of
another desktop like Gnome or KDE4/5)? Then we could get out of that /opt
folder, and my hunch is that everything would run better.
It seems to me that TDE is nearly ready for release; and if not, it ought to
be released through the Trinity repositories. (I mean, not as separate
packages, but as its own installation disc.) T
Bill
22 Feb
22 Feb
12:59 a.m.
New subject: how to enable mouse keys by default or command-line?
I have one of those minor bugs that annoys me, and I put it off while I was
tracking down other bigger problems. But I tend to use mouse keys (on the num
pad) a lot. However, at least once an hour or so, they just stop working, and
I have to go into the Trinity Control Center dialogue and set them again.
ALT-F12 enables them, but then the settings aren't mine; the cursors moves
slower, and my click keys don't work. Also, many times when this happens my
keyboard will also stop working, so I have to go to enable to mouse keys with
only the mouse itself working.
I feel like there is probably a configuration file hidden somewhere, or an
easy command that would enable them quicker than what I have to do now. On
the old KDE3, too, this was somewhat of a problem, but only when I first
booted. Then I would enable the mouse keys, and they would be stable for the
rest of the session. This is much more buggy.
By the way, I am using an old Apple mouse, model #A1152, and I run Debian
Jessie 8.8.x with TDE.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Bill
1:49 p.m.
New subject: how to enable mouse keys by default or command-line? w/ *addendum*
I have one of those minor bugs that annoys me, and I put it off while I was
tracking down other bigger problems. But I tend to use mouse keys (on the num
pad) a lot. However, at least once an hour or so, they just stop working, and
I have to go into the Trinity Control Center dialogue and set them again.
ALT-F12 enables them, but then the settings aren't mine; the cursors moves
slower, and my click keys don't work. Also, many times when this happens my
keyboard will also stop working, so I have to go to enable to mouse keys with
only the mouse itself working.
I feel like there is probably a configuration file hidden somewhere, or an
easy command that would enable them quicker than what I have to do now. On
the old KDE3, too, this was somewhat of a problem, but only when I first
booted. Then I would enable the mouse keys, and they would be stable for the
rest of the session. This is much more buggy.
By the way, I am using an old Apple mouse, model #A1152, and I run Debian
Jessie 8.8.x with TDE.
*****addendum
Oooops. It occurred to me after I sent it that the keyboard would be more
appropriate info. Sorry, I was falling asleep when I wrote that.
It's an HP keyboard #KU1060, but manufactured by Chicony. (This keyboard
doesn't appear in TDE's list of supported keyboards, nor any that are close
to it. Online research has yielded bugger all.)
This is for use on my desktop computer, which is a Frankenstein of new parts
and motherboard, and sata hdds, inside a big old metal case from about the
80s.
*****
Thanks for any suggestions.
Bill
18 Mar
18 Mar
12:13 a.m.
New subject: quick & dirty - installation & backup
First of all, I don't do all that wimpy stuff about using a nano or gedit or
what-not for editing my sources.list. I mean, that sounds responsible and
orderly (and good boy scouts always follow the rules), but in the long run
there are quicker ways.
I gradually figure out what works, so my progress is slow but incremental at
first; but after a few reinstallations, I get everything running as I want.
So instead of discarding what I ought to have learned by trial and error, I
save myself a lot of trouble in the long run by following these methods.
I backup my sources.list like so:
sudo
cp -r -v -f /etc/apt/sources.list -t
/media/<WHEREVER>/sources/jessie/sources.list-orig
and change permissions so that I can edit my sources.list without being root.
Then I open up sources.list-orig with whatever text editor (I prefer leafpad),
making sure to save it as sources.list and not sources.list-orig. When I'm
done, I copy it back to where it belongs like so:
sudo cp -r -v -f /media/<WHEREVER>/sources/jessie/sources.list -t /etc/apt/
and run sudo apt-get update.
After I have downloaded and installed pkgs, I take the precaution of saving
them all to an external drive somewhere, and sort everything into folders (so
that everything tde-trinity has its own folder):
sudo
mv -v -f /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb -t
/media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/
and then I change permissions:
sudo chmod -R 700 /media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/ | sudo chown -R
<MYSELF> /media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/ | sudo chgrp -R
<MYSELF> /media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/
(changing <WHEREVER> and <MYSELF>, of course, to whatever is appropriate for
your situation.
Then when I need to reinstall stuff, I have already sorted out what works for
my system, so I just do:
sudo dpkg -i -E -G /media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/*.deb
and install everything Trinity and TDE in a couple minutes, rather than
waiting literally days for stuff to download. And then I run
sudo apt-get -f install to correct any missing dependencies.
For me, this is much faster and more reliable. Every so often I run
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
and then also move these packages into my folder on a separate drive.
To reinstall my entire system as it is, by downloading packages from the
repositories, would take at least a week. If I always waited for packages to
download, this would be about the year 2060. Once I have figured out what
works, I don't keep trying again and again to solve the same problems. I did
try using aptoncd to create discs, but it seems that I need much more space
in my root partition to use for temporary files; it worked nicely on older
systems. And anyway, sooner or later I will upgrade to something else like
Stretch, or switch to Devuan, or both, and then I won't need my old packages,
so all I need to do is delete that folder, and change my commands to point to
the appropriate places.
I would be curious to know what are other people's methods. I've heard about
some net installations already.
Bill
12:02 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
I would be curious to know what are other people's
methods. I've heard about
some net installations already.
Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do that much
work to reinstall the software on an existing system! I'd just issue something like
"emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go to bed, and expect 98% of
everything to be resolved when I got back up in the morning. A Gentoo machine
is always easier to recover than to restart from scratch (and yes, it's possible to
switch out major parts of the infrastructure, like openrc <=> systemd and
udev <=> eudev, without hosing everything or even having to reinstall any package
that doesn't depend directly on the changed one).
I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017), despite a major
hardware refresh about midway through that period, and *never* had to start over
from scratch. And the only reason I didn't just image the old root partition onto a
new drive when I set up my current machine over Christmas was that I figured it was
time to get rid of all the leftover cruft from more than a decade of rolling updates.
E. Liddell
12:24 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:02:19 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Ah, but you are an actual geek, and you like this stuff. And I did say that my
method was dirty. The only reason I use computers at all is because I must; I
build my own computers out of parts because I can't afford to buy anything;
and I try to stick with GNU/Linux so that I can be sure that I really own my
own computers.
I've only been running Linux since about 2006, and mostly Kubuntu. Only in
April of 2017 did I attempt Debian. Once I get a system more or less stable,
I almost never need to do a full reinstallation. But then, I have pretty much
taught myself, with the help of some Linux books, and researching the forums.
And I only know one person in the real world (not online) who can actually
offer guidance. Otherwise, most people think I am a computer freak, which I
am not.
If I ruled the world, we would all go back to horses and carts, or at least
bicycles. I still say that this computer nonsense is just a passing fad, and
sooner or later people will wake up.
In the meanwhile, this is what I have to do to keep my computer running. I
like what you say, and am always willing to bow before superior knowledge. If
I could learn how to use your method on a Debian system, that would be great.
If you can point me in the right direction, I am all ears.
Bill
I would be curious to know what are other
people's methods. I've heard
about some net installations already.
Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do that much
work to reinstall the software on an existing system! I'd just issue
something like "emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go to bed, and
expect 98% of everything to be resolved when I got back up in the morning.
A Gentoo machine is always easier to recover than to restart from scratch
(and yes, it's possible to switch out major parts of the infrastructure,
like openrc <=> systemd and udev <=> eudev, without hosing everything or
even having to reinstall any package that doesn't depend directly on the
changed one).
I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017), despite a
major hardware refresh about midway through that period, and *never* had to
start over from scratch. And the only reason I didn't just image the old
root partition onto a new drive when I set up my current machine over
Christmas was that I figured it was time to get rid of all the leftover
cruft from more than a decade of rolling updates.
E. Liddell
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1:09 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:24:01 William Morder wrote:
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:02:19 E. Liddell wrote:
Ah, but you are an actual geek, and you like this stuff. And I did say that
my method was dirty. The only reason I use computers at all is because I
must; I build my own computers out of parts because I can't afford to buy
anything; and I try to stick with GNU/Linux so that I can be sure that I
really own my own computers.
I've only been running Linux since about 2006, and mostly Kubuntu. Only in
April of 2017 did I attempt Debian. Once I get a system more or less
stable, I almost never need to do a full reinstallation. But then, I have
pretty much taught myself, with the help of some Linux books, and
researching the forums. And I only know one person in the real world (not
online) who can actually offer guidance. Otherwise, most people think I am
a computer freak, which I am not.
If I ruled the world, we would all go back to horses and carts, or at least
bicycles. I still say that this computer nonsense is just a passing fad,
and sooner or later people will wake up.
In the meanwhile, this is what I have to do to keep my computer running. I
like what you say, and am always willing to bow before superior knowledge.
If I could learn how to use your method on a Debian system, that would be
great.
If you can point me in the right direction, I am all ears.
Bill
P.S. How would you go about maintaining your computers if you sometimes are
forced to go for months at a stretch without an Internet connection? Right
now I have a fast, reasonably stable connection, but it hasn't always been
that way. I started saving packages to reinstall by dpkg so that I could keep
my system running even when I am offline.
I used to go to the library with my laptop, to use their connection; but then
I would download and save packages to be used in my desktop computer at home,
where there was no Internet. If there is a better strategy for survival in
those circumstances, I would love to hear it.
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
I would be curious to know what are other
people's methods. I've heard
about some net installations already.
Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do that
much work to reinstall the software on an existing system! I'd just
issue something like "emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go to bed,
and expect 98% of everything to be resolved when I got back up in the
morning. A Gentoo machine is always easier to recover than to restart
from scratch (and yes, it's possible to switch out major parts of the
infrastructure, like openrc <=> systemd and udev <=> eudev, without
hosing everything or even having to reinstall any package that doesn't
depend directly on the changed one).
I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017), despite a
major hardware refresh about midway through that period, and *never* had
to start over from scratch. And the only reason I didn't just image the
old root partition onto a new drive when I set up my current machine over
Christmas was that I figured it was time to get rid of all the leftover
cruft from more than a decade of rolling updates.
E. Liddell
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Please remember not to top-post:
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19 Mar
19 Mar
11:44 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 06:09:53 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:24:01 William Morder wrote:
Guilty. ;)
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:02:19 E. Liddell
wrote:
Ah, but you are an actual geek, and you like this stuff. On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
I would be curious to know what are other
people's methods. I've heard
about some net installations already.
Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do that
much work to reinstall the software on an existing system! I'd just
issue something like "emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go to bed,
and expect 98% of everything to be resolved when I got back up in the
morning. A Gentoo machine is always easier to recover than to restart
from scratch (and yes, it's possible to switch out major parts of the
infrastructure, like openrc <=> systemd and udev <=> eudev, without
hosing everything or even having to reinstall any package that doesn't
depend directly on the changed one).
I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017), despite a
major hardware refresh about midway through that period, and *never* had
to start over from scratch. And the only reason I didn't just image the
old root partition onto a new drive when I set up my current machine over
Christmas was that I figured it was time to get rid of all the leftover
cruft from more than a decade of rolling updates.
E. Liddell And I did say that
my method was dirty. The only reason I use computers at all is because I
must; I build my own computers out of parts because I can't afford to buy
anything; and I try to stick with GNU/Linux so that I can be sure that I
really own my own computers.
I've only been running Linux since about 2006, and mostly Kubuntu. Only in
April of 2017 did I attempt Debian. Once I get a system more or less
stable, I almost never need to do a full reinstallation. But then, I have
pretty much taught myself, with the help of some Linux books, and
researching the forums. And I only know one person in the real world (not
online) who can actually offer guidance. Otherwise, most people think I am
a computer freak, which I am not.
If I ruled the world, we would all go back to horses and carts, or at least
bicycles. I still say that this computer nonsense is just a passing fad,
and sooner or later people will wake up.
In the meanwhile, this is what I have to do to keep my computer running. I
like what you say, and am always willing to bow before superior knowledge.
If I could learn how to use your method on a Debian system, that would be
great.
If you can point me in the right direction, I am all ears.
Unfortunately, how I get away with what I do is kind of rooted in the way
Gentoo's package manager works and how Gentoo, as a distro, differs from
Debian (and they're just about as different as can be--Gentoo is a rolling-release
source-based distro that expects you to be at home with a command line and
lacks a graphical install tool).
A limited version of the same thing should be possible with any rolling-release
distro, but I'm not familiar with any Debian-based ones.
P.S. How would you go about maintaining your computers
if you sometimes are
forced to go for months at a stretch without an Internet connection? Right
now I have a fast, reasonably stable connection, but it hasn't always been
that way. I started saving packages to reinstall by dpkg so that I could keep
my system running even when I am offline.
I used to go to the library with my laptop, to use their connection; but then
I would download and save packages to be used in my desktop computer at home,
where there was no Internet. If there is a better strategy for survival in
those circumstances, I would love to hear it.
I don't think there's any easy way to deal with that problem, unfortunately.
Among
the things I'd probably end up doing would be poking through the old distro-specific
software intended to minimize bandwidth use for dial-up users back in the day.
That, and manually pulling down certain types of files using a download manager
if the package manager couldn't handle things on its own. That assumes that I would
have *some* kind of connection, just not a fast or stable one, though--dial-up
modem, tethered phone, whatever. I've been doing this juuuust long enough to
remember how not-fun trying to update over dial-up was.
Gentoo's package manager keeps the files needed for a (re-)install of any package
unless you purge them manually, and copying them around to multiple machines isn't
a problem. You can also fetch packages without installing if you pass the right flag.
The idea of having to explicitly set the system to keep stuff was part of what made
me boggle.
E. Liddell
20 Mar
20 Mar
1:22 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
On Monday 19 March 2018 16:44:34 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 06:09:53 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
If I can ever find a publisher to give me enough money to live in the regal
style that deserve (and if I should live long enough to complete the Great
Work, and if they are still actually publishing books written by human beings
at that time), then maybe I can afford my very only reliable Internet
connection, and I would be glad to try out Gentoo.
Gentoo is only vaguely on my radar, but I do like to try out new things. One
reason I usually create a root partition of 30 gb or so is that I like to
download and try out lots of new stuff; but then I also get rid of whatever
isn't really useful, or which only duplicates the functions of another
program.
When I have a reliable Internet connection, this isn't a problem; but right
now I don't own my connection (and the wifi password would be absurdly easy
for a child to crack). When my Internet is non-existent, I take my laptop to
the library and download packages, copy them to an external hdd, then bring
them home and install them on my desktop.
Thanks for caring, though.
Bill
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:24:01 William Morder
wrote:
Guilty. ;)
On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:02:19 E. Liddell
wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700
>
> William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
> > I would be curious to know what are other people's methods. I've
> > heard about some net installations already.
>
> Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do
> that much work to reinstall the software on an existing system! I'd
> just issue something like "emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go
> to bed, and expect 98% of everything to be resolved when I got back
> up in the morning. A Gentoo machine is always easier to recover than
> to restart from scratch (and yes, it's possible to switch out major
> parts of the infrastructure, like openrc <=> systemd and udev <=>
> eudev, without hosing everything or even having to reinstall any
> package that doesn't depend directly on the changed one).
>
> I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017),
> despite a major hardware refresh about midway through that period,
> and *never* had to start over from scratch. And the only reason I
> didn't just image the old root partition onto a new drive when I set
> up my current machine over Christmas was that I figured it was time
> to get rid of all the leftover cruft from more than a decade of
> rolling updates.
>
> E. Liddell
Ah, but you are an actual geek, and you like this stuff. And I did say that
my method was dirty. The only reason I use computers at all is because I
must; I build my own computers out of parts because I can't afford to buy
anything; and I try to stick with GNU/Linux so that I can be sure that I
really own my own computers.
I've only been running Linux since about 2006, and mostly Kubuntu. Only
in April of 2017 did I attempt Debian. Once I get a system more or less
stable, I almost never need to do a full reinstallation. But then, I have
pretty much taught myself, with the help of some Linux books, and
researching the forums. And I only know one person in the real world (not
online) who can actually offer guidance. Otherwise, most people think I
am a computer freak, which I am not.
If I ruled the world, we would all go back to horses and carts, or at
least bicycles. I still say that this computer nonsense is just a passing
fad, and sooner or later people will wake up.
In the meanwhile, this is what I have to do to keep my computer running.
I like what you say, and am always willing to bow before superior
knowledge. If I could learn how to use your method on a Debian system,
that would be great.
If you can point me in the right direction, I am all ears.
Unfortunately, how I get away with what I do is kind of rooted in the way
Gentoo's package manager works and how Gentoo, as a distro, differs from
Debian (and they're just about as different as can be--Gentoo is a
rolling-release source-based distro that expects you to be at home with a
command line and lacks a graphical install tool).
A limited version of the same thing should be possible with any
rolling-release distro, but I'm not familiar with any Debian-based ones.
P.S. How would you go about maintaining your
computers if you sometimes
are forced to go for months at a stretch without an Internet connection?
Right now I have a fast, reasonably stable connection, but it hasn't
always been that way. I started saving packages to reinstall by dpkg so
that I could keep my system running even when I am offline.
I used to go to the library with my laptop, to use their connection; but
then I would download and save packages to be used in my desktop computer
at home, where there was no Internet. If there is a better strategy for
survival in those circumstances, I would love to hear it.
I don't think there's any easy way to deal with that problem,
unfortunately. Among the things I'd probably end up doing would be poking
through the old distro-specific software intended to minimize bandwidth use
for dial-up users back in the day. That, and manually pulling down certain
types of files using a download manager if the package manager couldn't
handle things on its own. That assumes that I would have *some* kind of
connection, just not a fast or stable one, though--dial-up modem, tethered
phone, whatever. I've been doing this juuuust long enough to remember how
not-fun trying to update over dial-up was.
Gentoo's package manager keeps the files needed for a (re-)install of any
package unless you purge them manually, and copying them around to multiple
machines isn't a problem. You can also fetch packages without installing
if you pass the right flag. The idea of having to explicitly set the system
to keep stuff was part of what made me boggle.
E. Liddell
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12:28 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:22:51 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
If I can ever find a publisher to give me enough money
to live in the regal
style that deserve (and if I should live long enough to complete the Great
Work, and if they are still actually publishing books written by human beings
at that time), then maybe I can afford my very only reliable Internet
connection, and I would be glad to try out Gentoo.
Your techie friend would probably look at you funny if you suggested installing
it, anyway. There's an old humour piece about operating systems as airlines
that you can find kicking around the internet, and the Linux segment includes
something along the lines of, "Upon boarding the plane, you're handed an
uninstalled seat, a handful of bolts, a wrench, and a copy of seat-HOWTO.
Once you get it installed, the adjustable seat is very comfortable, the plane
takes off and lands on time, and the in-flight meal is just perfect, but whenever
you try to discuss the experience with someone, all they ever say is, 'You had
to do *what* to the seat?!'"
Gentoo is very much a "You had to do *what* to the seat?!" distro. The
install process is command-line oriented and hands-on, installing a new
package can take some time because it (usually) needs to be compiled, and
you're expected to put in a bit of work in terms of untangling your own messes
with the aid of the (usually pretty good) documentation. In return, it offers a
knowledgeable community, complete control of every optional dependency
on the system, and programs that run slightly faster and install less cruft
because they're tailored for your machine and not some generic abstraction.
I like it, but then I code for a living, I'm a control freak, and I'm willing to
put
in a little more time when I have to (to avoid having to put in a lot more time
down the road).
E. Liddell
1:06 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 05:28:57 E. Liddell wrote:
Nah, I think he would know Gentoo. He compiles everything from source.
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:22:51 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
> If I can ever find a publisher to give me enough money to live in the
> regal style that deserve (and if I should live long enough to complete
> the Great Work, and if they are still actually publishing books written
> by human beings at that time), then maybe I can afford my very only
should be
<own> not <only>, sorry!
reliable
Internet connection, and I would be glad to try out Gentoo.
Your techie friend would probably look at you funny if you suggested
installing it, anyway. There's an old humour piece about operating
systems
as airlines that you can find kicking around the internet, and the Linux
segment includes something along the lines of, "Upon boarding the plane,
you're handed an uninstalled seat, a handful of bolts, a wrench, and a copy
of seat-HOWTO. Once you get it installed, the adjustable seat is very
comfortable, the plane takes off and lands on time, and the in-flight meal
is just perfect, but whenever you try to discuss the experience with
someone, all they ever say is, 'You had to do *what* to the seat?!'"
You forgot the process about tanning hides to make own custom seat leather.
Gentoo is very much a "You had to do *what* to
the seat?!" distro. The
install process is command-line oriented and hands-on, installing a new
package can take some time because it (usually) needs to be compiled, and
you're expected to put in a bit of work in terms of untangling your own
messes with the aid of the (usually pretty good) documentation. In return,
it offers a knowledgeable community, complete control of every optional
dependency on the system, and programs that run slightly faster and install
less cruft because they're tailored for your machine and not some generic
abstraction.
That sounds tantalizingly seductive, but one also must set limits. I don't
code for a living, but use my computer for writing and editing (as well as
layout for books, etc.), as well as sometimes for producing my own music.
I like it, but then I code for a living, I'm a
control freak, and I'm
willing to put in a little more time when I have to (to avoid having to put
in a lot more time down the road).
E. Liddell
I like Gentoo already, just because it is so perversely arcane. I don't so
much like computers, or (modern) machines in general (noting that a wagon
might be considered a machine, and certainly a bicycle). However, I do rather
enjoy the aspects of hidden mysteries, deciphering codes, and an underground
brotherhood (and sisterhood) - complete with secret handshakes and alternate
identities.
More than that, I really just like to feel like I own my own computer, that I
can, through my own efforts, come to control it, and that I am allowed to
take apart both hardware and software and put it back together in ways that
the original designers never intended; and thereby either improve it, or
totally mess it up beyond all hope of recovery, with nothing left but to
start over with what I like to call The Long Dark System Reinstallation of
the Soul.
The problem with freedom is that it never comes free, nor even cheap. If you
want it, you have to work at it. And I'm not so much a political activist
(though some seem to think so based on the fact that I sometimes write
eccentric pieces that happen to trespass into politics and social issues);
but I do want to feel that my computer, and everything in it, is all mine,
and controlled by me. Thus I expect that it won't always be easy to attain
such concrete goals; which, paradoxically, are regarded by a lot of people as
some kind of arty-farty aesthetic ideal. I would love to give in
to "convention", and have everything come easy; but I get older and crankier,
and cannot force myself to fit into prefabricated ways of doing anything.
When I try to explain to "outsiders" the varying degrees of Unix, Linux (and
variants like BSD), then Redhat, Debian - as well the true, pure faith of
GNU/Linux, and all that - I invariably take a shortcut and say simply that
Linux is not so much a kind of operating system as a lifestyle, or a mystic
cult.
Again, it is like a musician friend of mine (who was always broke) tried to
explain blues and jazz music: they are not music forms, or genres, but rather
a way of life.
If I can't own my own computer, and make it run like I want, then I will run
no computer at all. I will crawl back under my rock, and wait until the times
change.
Bill
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1:40 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
Am Dienstag, 20. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
When I try to explain to "outsiders" the
varying degrees of Unix, Linux (and
variants like BSD), then Redhat, Debian - as well the true, pure faith of
GNU/Linux, and all that - I invariably take a shortcut and say simply that
Linux is not so much a kind of operating system as a lifestyle, or a mystic
cult.
LOL ... my accountant thinks it's about religion when he hears some talk
about linux :-)
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
1:45 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 06:40:20 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Dienstag, 20. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Like a joke (or maybe like Zen): you either get it, or you don't. If you don't
get the point, no amount of explanation can make it more understandable. If
you do get the point, then a little explanation can open up new worlds that
you never even knew existed before.
Bill
When I try to explain to "outsiders"
the varying degrees of Unix, Linux
(and variants like BSD), then Redhat, Debian - as well the true, pure
faith of GNU/Linux, and all that - I invariably take a shortcut and say
simply that Linux is not so much a kind of operating system as a
lifestyle, or a mystic cult.
LOL ... my accountant thinks it's about religion when he hears some talk
about linux :-)
19 Mar
19 Mar
12:10 p.m.
New subject: my vanishing root partition
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root partition keep
disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme to
something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp
folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I have to
go through these steps manually, again and again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by command-line,
anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> And the first time I
did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my system (some months ago), I
have the same problem again, and nothing works to fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating space on
my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this kept
shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf tells me that
I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a fresh reboot);
this, I predict - based on past experience - will gradually shrink down to 0
over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with gparted,
slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to wiggle. I used to
allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but then I thought, hey, I've
got my system pretty well set up, and won't be downloading much of anything
new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning out extraneous unnecessary crap.
The newer distros, though, use up more and more space on the root partition,
just because they can; due to the fact that hard drives are getting bigger
and cheaper - even though not all of us can afford to go out and buy a new
one right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso image to a
CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it tells me it's
empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other drives (not root), I
can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate of 1 mb every few
minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to another, the same thing
happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to the
same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame this on
systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd seems to interfere
with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an open mind, as it
could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't track
down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks EVERYTHING
outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a few ports. I keep
watching for some kind of activity that might show me what's going on, but so
far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's already
backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger problem, I
would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty long
time.
Bill
12:26 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root
partition keep
disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme to
something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp
folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I have to
go through these steps manually, again and again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by command-line,
anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> And the first time I
did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my system (some months ago), I
have the same problem again, and nothing works to fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating space on
my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this kept
shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf tells me that
I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a fresh reboot);
this, I predict - based on past experience - will gradually shrink down to 0
over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with gparted,
slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to wiggle. I used to
allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but then I thought, hey, I've
got my system pretty well set up, and won't be downloading much of anything
new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning out extraneous unnecessary crap.
The newer distros, though, use up more and more space on the root partition,
just because they can; due to the fact that hard drives are getting bigger
and cheaper - even though not all of us can afford to go out and buy a new
one right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso image to a
CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it tells me it's
empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other drives (not root), I
can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate of 1 mb every few
minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to another, the same thing
happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to the
same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame this on
systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd seems to interfere
with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an open mind, as it
could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't track
down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks EVERYTHING
outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a few ports. I keep
watching for some kind of activity that might show me what's going on, but so
far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's already
backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger problem, I
would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty long
time.
Bill
Hi!
guess you never cleared the apt archive:
# apt-get clean
then you might look at the usual suspects:
# di -sch /*
or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size view"
...
nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
12:44 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 05:26:39 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
No, you're wrong there. I clear it manually (as I explain in my "quick &
dirty" post), using this command:
sudo
mv -v -f /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb -t
/media/<WHEREVER>/debian/jessie/tde-trinity/
I save all my packages so that I can install them manually with dpkg; due to
the fact that I must often make do without any Internet connection. There is
nothing in this folder.
Next suggestion?
Bill
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my
root partition keep
disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme to
something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp
folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I
have to go through these steps manually, again and again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by
command-line, anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
And the first time I did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my
system (some months ago), I have the same problem again, and nothing
works to fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating
space on my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this
kept shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf tells
me that I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a
fresh reboot); this, I predict - based on past experience - will
gradually shrink down to 0 over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with
gparted, slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to
wiggle. I used to allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but then
I thought, hey, I've got my system pretty well set up, and won't be
downloading much of anything new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning
out extraneous unnecessary crap. The newer distros, though, use up more
and more space on the root partition, just because they can; due to the
fact that hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper - even though not
all of us can afford to go out and buy a new one right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso image
to a CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it tells
me it's empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other drives
(not root), I can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate of
1 mb every few minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to
another, the same thing happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to
the same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame
this on systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd seems
to interfere with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an open
mind, as it could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't
track down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks
EVERYTHING outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a
few ports. I keep watching for some kind of activity that might show me
what's going on, but so far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's
already backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger
problem, I would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty
long time.
Bill
Hi!
guess you never cleared the apt archive:
# apt-get clean
then you might look at the usual suspects:
# di -sch /*
or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size
view" ...
nik 
12:54 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
Try something like this to find the largest files
https://www.tecmint.com/find-top-large-directories-and-files-sizes-in-linux/
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 8:26 AM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp <office(a)klepp.biz>
wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
--
John Pisini
Systems Administrator
TFCCS
617-450-3988
Disclaimer for email:
The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to
this message is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may
contain confidential or privileged information. This e-mail is not
intended to, and shall not, constitute an electronic signature giving rise
to a binding legal contract, unless expressly stated otherwise in the body
of the e-mail by the sender.
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my
root partition keep
disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme to
something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp
folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I
have to
go through these steps manually, again and
again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by
command-line,
anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir
/tmp/kde-<USERNAME> And the first
time I
did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my
system (some months ago),
I
have the same problem again, and nothing works to
fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating
space on
my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to
spare, but this kept
shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf tells me
that
I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root
partition (on a fresh
reboot);
this, I predict - based on past experience - will
gradually shrink down
to 0
over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with
gparted,
slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have
more room to wiggle. I
used to
allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition;
but then I thought, hey,
I've
got my system pretty well set up, and won't
be downloading much of
anything
new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning out
extraneous unnecessary
crap.
The newer distros, though, use up more and more
space on the root
partition,
just because they can; due to the fact that hard
drives are getting
bigger
and cheaper - even though not all of us can
afford to go out and buy a
new
one right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso
image to
a
CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but
when I load the disc, it tells me
it's
empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff
to other drives (not
root), I
can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at
a rate of 1 mb every
few
minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive
to another, the same
thing
happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to
the
same problem, but you get the general idea. I
would like to blame this on
systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd seems to
interfere
with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to
keep an open mind, as it
could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't
track
down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my
firewall blocks
EVERYTHING
outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted
connections on a few ports. I
keep
watching for some kind of activity that might
show me what's going on,
but so
far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's
already
backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a
different, bigger problem, I
would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty
long
time.
Bill
Hi!
guess you never cleared the apt archive:
# apt-get clean
then you might look at the usual suspects:
# di -sch /*
or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size
view" ...
nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing
with the NSA, CIA ...
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12:56 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 05:26:39 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Other suggestions: the command (I am supposing)
# di -sch /*
returns
bash: di: command not found
What is di? command? software package to download?
And konqueror returns this information:
"FSView intentionally does not support automatic updates when changes are
made to files or directories, currently visible in FSView, from the outside."
I opened konqueror as root, and am reviewing info now. I have a picture of my
hard drive, but so far nothing unusual. (I've seen this before, but haven't
done it in a while.)
Bill
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my
root partition keep
disappearing?
I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme to
something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp
folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I
have to go through these steps manually, again and again.
Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by
command-line, anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
And the first time I did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my
system (some months ago), I have the same problem again, and nothing
works to fix it.
This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating
space on my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this
kept shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf tells
me that I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a
fresh reboot); this, I predict - based on past experience - will
gradually shrink down to 0 over a couple days.
(This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with
gparted, slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to
wiggle. I used to allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but then
I thought, hey, I've got my system pretty well set up, and won't be
downloading much of anything new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning
out extraneous unnecessary crap. The newer distros, though, use up more
and more space on the root partition, just because they can; due to the
fact that hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper - even though not
all of us can afford to go out and buy a new one right now.)
And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso image
to a CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it tells
me it's empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other drives
(not root), I can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate of
1 mb every few minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to
another, the same thing happens.
There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to
the same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame
this on systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd seems
to interfere with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an open
mind, as it could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't
track down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks
EVERYTHING outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a
few ports. I keep watching for some kind of activity that might show me
what's going on, but so far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's
already backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger
problem, I would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty
long time.
Bill
Hi!
guess you never cleared the apt archive:
# apt-get clean
then you might look at the usual suspects:
# di -sch /*
or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size
view" ...
nik
1 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
There is also ways to look for newest files
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5893748/linux-command-to-check-new-file…
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 8:56 AM, William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com>
wrote:
On Monday 19 March 2018 05:26:39 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Other suggestions: the command (I am supposing)
# di -sch /*
returns
bash: di: command not found
What is di? command? software package to download?
And konqueror returns this information:
"FSView intentionally does not support automatic updates when changes are
made to files or directories, currently visible in FSView, from the
outside."
I opened konqueror as root, and am reviewing info now. I have a picture of
my
hard drive, but so far nothing unusual. (I've seen this before, but haven't
done it in a while.)
Bill
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--
John Pisini
Systems Administrator
TFCCS
617-450-3988
Disclaimer for email:
The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to
this message is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may
contain confidential or privileged information. This e-mail is not
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to a binding legal contract, unless expressly stated otherwise in the body
of the e-mail by the sender.
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
> Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root partition keep
> disappearing?
>
> I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme
to
> something I liked better, and was asked to
make a tmp
> folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
> So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and I
> have to go through these steps manually, again and again.
>
> Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by
> command-line, anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
> And the first time I did this, it worked; but after reinstalling my
> system (some months ago), I have the same problem again, and nothing
> works to fix it.
>
> This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating
> space on my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but this
> kept shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now kdf
tells
> me that I am down to 262 mb of space left on
my root partition (on a
> fresh reboot); this, I predict - based on past experience - will
> gradually shrink down to 0 over a couple days.
>
> (This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with
> gparted, slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to
> wiggle. I used to allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but
then
> I thought, hey, I've got my system
pretty well set up, and won't be
> downloading much of anything new, and I'm very hygienic about cleaning
> out extraneous unnecessary crap. The newer distros, though, use up more
> and more space on the root partition, just because they can; due to the
> fact that hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper - even though not
> all of us can afford to go out and buy a new one right now.)
>
> And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso
image
> to a CD, and k3b tells me
"SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc, it
tells
> me it's empty. Also, when I have been
downloading stuff to other drives
> (not root), I can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking at a rate
of
> 1 mb every few minutes; or when I copy files
from one hard drive to
> another, the same thing happens.
>
> There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point to
> the same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to blame
> this on systemd or something like that (and it's true that systemd
seems
> to interfere with shutdowns and reboots);
but I am trying to keep an
open
mind, as
it could be another problem.
All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I can't
track down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall blocks
EVERYTHING outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted connections on a
few ports. I keep watching for some kind of activity that might show me
what's going on, but so far it's a mystery.
I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb. (Everything's
already backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a different, bigger
problem, I would like to sort that out first.
Anybody have a clue what's happening?
I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a pretty
long time.
Bill
Hi!
guess you never cleared the apt archive:
# apt-get clean
then you might look at the usual suspects:
# di -sch /*
or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size
view" ...
nik
1:09 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:00:14 Pisini, John wrote:
There is also ways to look for newest files
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5893748/linux-command-to-check-new-file
s-in-file-system
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 8:56 AM, William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com>
wrote:
> On Monday 19 March 2018 05:26:39 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
> > > Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root partition keep
> > > disappearing?
> > >
> > > I first noticed something weird with k3b. I tried to change the theme
>
> to
>
> > > something I liked better, and was asked to make a tmp
> > > folder: /tmp/kde-<USERNAME>
> > > So I did this, but every time I reboot, the same problem occurs, and
> > > I have to go through these steps manually, again and again.
> > >
> > > Then I got the bright idea to create the partition myself by
> > > command-line, anticipating the problem: sudo mkdir
> > > /tmp/kde-<USERNAME> And the first time I did this, it worked; but
> > > after reinstalling my system (some months ago), I have the same
> > > problem again, and nothing works to fix it.
> > >
> > > This, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. Something keeps eating
> > > space on my root partition. I used to have over 1 gb to spare, but
> > > this kept shrinking, even when I wasn't installing anything new. Now
> > > kdf
>
> tells
>
> > > me that I am down to 262 mb of space left on my root partition (on a
> > > fresh reboot); this, I predict - based on past experience - will
> > > gradually shrink down to 0 over a couple days.
> > >
> > > (This, by the way, is why I want to resize my root partition with
> > > gparted, slacko, Parted Magic, whatever, so that I have more room to
> > > wiggle. I used to allot at least 25-30 gb for my root partition; but
>
> then
>
> > > I thought, hey, I've got my system pretty well set up, and won't
be
> > > downloading much of anything new, and I'm very hygienic about
> > > cleaning out extraneous unnecessary crap. The newer distros, though,
> > > use up more and more space on the root partition, just because they
> > > can; due to the fact that hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper
> > > - even though not all of us can afford to go out and buy a new one
> > > right now.)
> > >
> > > And there's more. For example: I tried burning the gparted live iso
>
> image
>
> > > to a CD, and k3b tells me "SUCCESS!"; but when I load the disc,
it
>
> tells
>
> > > me it's empty. Also, when I have been downloading stuff to other
> > > drives (not root), I can watch kdf show my root partition shrinking
> > > at a rate
>
> of
>
> > > 1 mb every few minutes; or when I copy files from one hard drive to
> > > another, the same thing happens.
> > >
> > > There are lots of other little things like this, which seem to point
> > > to the same problem, but you get the general idea. I would like to
> > > blame this on systemd or something like that (and it's true that
> > > systemd
>
> seems
>
> > > to interfere with shutdowns and reboots); but I am trying to keep an
>
> open
>
> > > mind, as it could be another problem.
> > >
> > > All in all, something is eating space on my root partition, but I
> > > can't track down the culprit. My antivirus is up-to-date; my firewall
> > > blocks EVERYTHING outgoing and only allows secure, encrypted
> > > connections on a few ports. I keep watching for some kind of activity
> > > that might show me what's going on, but so far it's a mystery.
> > >
> > > I'm intending to resize my root partition back to 30 gb.
> > > (Everything's already backed up and ready to go.) But if this is a
> > > different, bigger problem, I would like to sort that out first.
> > >
> > > Anybody have a clue what's happening?
> > >
> > > I will be eternally grateful, or at least I'll be grateful for a
> > > pretty long time.
> > >
> > > Bill
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > guess you never cleared the apt archive:
> >
> > # apt-get clean
> >
> > then you might look at the usual suspects:
> >
> > # di -sch /*
> >
> > or in konqueror, go to / or /home and select "View/View Mode/File size
> > view" ...
> >
> > nik
>
> Other suggestions: the command (I am supposing)
> # di -sch /*
> returns
> bash: di: command not found
>
> What is di? command? software package to download?
>
> And konqueror returns this information:
> "FSView intentionally does not support automatic updates when changes are
> made to files or directories, currently visible in FSView, from the
> outside."
>
> I opened konqueror as root, and am reviewing info now. I have a picture
> of my
> hard drive, but so far nothing unusual. (I've seen this before, but
> haven't done it in a while.)
>
> Bill
>
>
I opened konqueror as root, and it shows details of everything in all my
drives, but for root is just one big amorphous blob.
By the way, the TDE mailing list mods ask that we don't top-post. Of course,
we also go totally off-topic on occasion, so they're pretty lenient. Most of
us try to stick to that rule, so it's easier to follow the threads.
Bill
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe@
> lists.pearsoncomputing.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help@lists.
> pearsoncomputing.net
> Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.
> pearsoncomputing.net/
> Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.
> pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
1:32 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 06:09:24AM -0700, William Morder wrote:
By the way, the TDE mailing list mods ask that we
don't top-post.
I don't think they mean to bottom-post at the end of two or three pages
of quoted text.
I think they mean to interleave your responses immediately after the
relevant quoted text, trimming anything irrelevant.
Top-posting is often annoying, but I can tell you it's not as annoying
as having to scroll down past thirty pages of quoting up to a dozen
levels deep:
> > > > > > > > > > >
blah blah blah blah...
to finally see the one and only line of new content:
"Me too!!!"
--
Steve
2:29 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:32:52 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 06:09:24AM -0700, William
Morder wrote:
That's true, but then I usually try to cut out the extraneous stuff. My own
posts can get long-winded, but I expect to be edited down to human size by
others. I think it's fine to comment after the other person's points,
one-at-a-time. It keeps the flow of thought together.
In other words, me too.
That particular response would have made more sense at the end; I wasn't
pointing it out to be a jerk. I only care for reasons of comprehension; and
that particular person had some useful information to offer. Otherwise, I
politely ignore people who don't follow the rules; I myself don't make the
rules here, and usually can be found on the other side of that line.
Of late we have been going totally off-topic a lot, for which I must admit mea
maxima culpa.
Bill
By the way, the TDE mailing list mods ask that we
don't top-post.
I don't think they mean to bottom-post at the end of two or three pages
of quoted text.
I think they mean to interleave your responses immediately after the
relevant quoted text, trimming anything irrelevant.
Top-posting is often annoying, but I can tell you it's not as annoying
as having to scroll down past thirty pages of quoting up to a dozen
levels deep:
> > > > > > > > > >
> blah blah blah blah...
to finally see the one and only line of new content:
"Me too!!!"
1:11 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
[...]
Other suggestions: the command (I am supposing)
# di -sch /*
returns
bash: di: command not found
What is di? command? software package to download?
oh my ... should be "du" :-)
And konqueror returns this information:
"FSView intentionally does not support automatic updates when changes are
made to files or directories, currently visible in FSView, from the outside."
I opened konqueror as root, and am reviewing info now. I have a picture of my
hard drive, but so far nothing unusual. (I've seen this before, but haven't
done it in a while.)
Bill
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Please remember not to top-post:
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--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
1:25 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:11:24 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
That makes more sense. Another user just sent me to a web page that describes
that command. Your version works better, though, for my purposes. I could
probably have found the information on those web pages, but it would have
taken time to sift it out from other stuff.
So I get this in my terminal:
4.0K /afs
11M /bin
160M /boot
0 /dev
57M /etc
26G /home
0 /initrd.img
0 /initrd.img.old
576M /lib
4.0K /live-build
16K /lost+found
Nothing looks too much out of the ordinary; I already can account for
everything in my /home directory, I think, and next biggest is /lib. So how
does 18 gb vanish?
Bill
[...]
Other suggestions: the command (I am supposing)
# di -sch /*
returns
bash: di: command not found
What is di? command? software package to download?
oh my ... should be "du" :-)
> And konqueror returns this information:
> "FSView intentionally does not support automatic updates when changes are
> made to files or directories, currently visible in FSView, from the
> outside."
>
> I opened konqueror as root, and am reviewing info now. I have a picture
> of my hard drive, but so far nothing unusual. (I've seen this before, but
> haven't done it in a while.)
>
> Bill
>
> >
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> trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional
> commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list
> messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/
> Please remember not to top-post:
> http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
1:39 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 06:25:15AM -0700, William Morder wrote:
So I get this in my terminal:
(I presume this is the output of du -- it might help if you show the
actual command you ran.)
4.0K /afs
11M /bin
160M /boot
0 /dev
57M /etc
26G /home
0 /initrd.img
0 /initrd.img.old
576M /lib
4.0K /live-build
16K /lost+found
Nothing looks too much out of the ordinary; I already can account for
everything in my /home directory, I think, and next biggest is /lib. So how
does 18 gb vanish?
Sorry for asking a dumb question, but what makes you say that 18GB has
vanished?
Also, I'm a little disturbed by the fact that you don't appear to have a
/ partition, although I'm not up to date with the brave new world of
systemd, maybe there's no such thing anymore...
What do you get when you run this?
df --si
--
Steve
2:39 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:39:23 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Well, I have allotted 18 gb for my root partition, and kdf shows me as having
169.5 mb free at the moment. Before I rebooted (just now), I had about 262
mb, I think it was. A couple weeks ago, I had over 1 gb free, and I haven't
downloaded anything.
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 06:25:15AM -0700, William
Morder wrote:
Yes, sorry, I ran
du -sch /*
as per Nik Klepp's recommendation.
Sorry, I don't always recognize that you haven't followed the threads. I try
to be clear.
So I get this in my terminal:
(I presume this is the output of du -- it might help if you show the
actual command you ran.) 4.0K /afs
11M /bin
160M /boot
0 /dev
57M /etc
26G /home
0 /initrd.img
0 /initrd.img.old
576M /lib
4.0K /live-build
16K /lost+found
Nothing looks too much out of the ordinary; I already can account for
everything in my /home directory, I think, and next biggest is /lib. So
how does 18 gb vanish?
Sorry for asking a dumb question, but what makes you say that 18GB has
vanished?
Also, I'm a little disturbed by the fact that you
don't appear to have a
/ partition, although I'm not up to date with the brave new world of
systemd, maybe there's no such thing anymore...
I said this earlier, but here are my partitions:
sda1 / 18 gb
sda2 swap 4 gb
sda3 /home 78 gb
(more or less)
What do you get when you run this?
df --si
/dev/sda1 18G 17G 178M 99% /
udev 11M 0 11M 0% /dev
tmpfs 423M 6.7M 416M 2% /run
tmpfs 1.1G 0 1.1G 0% /dev/shm
tmpfs 5.3M 4.1k 5.3M 1% /run/lock
tmpfs 1.1G 0 1.1G 0% /sys/fs/cgroup
/dev/sda3 77G 28G 46G 38% /home
tmpfs 212M 13k 212M 1% /run/user/1000
Looks like tmpfs has the most used up.
Bill
3 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:39:23 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Forgot: if it's a "hidden" file like '.swap' you'll have to
use:
# du -sch /* /.*
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 06:25:15AM -0700, William
Morder wrote:
Yes, sorry, I ran
du -sch /*
as per Nik Klepp's recommendation. So I get this in my terminal:
(I presume this is the output of du -- it might help if you show the
actual command you ran.) 
2:10 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 06:25 (UTC-0700):
So I get this in my terminal:
4.0K /afs
11M /bin
160M /boot
57M /etc
26G /home
576M /lib
4.0K /live-build
16K /lost+found
What's in /var/log/?
# du -sch /*
4.8M /bin
174M /boot
0 /dev
27M /etc
22G /home
1.4G /lib
19M /lib64
16K /lost+found
4.0K /media
4.0K /mnt
375M /opt
0 /proc
111M /root
2.5M /run
5.0M /sbin
4.0K /selinux
1.9G /srv
0 /sys
2.4G /tmp
5.4G /usr
1.6G /var
# df /
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/md2 18011336 7680600 9392760 45% /
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
3:11 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 07:10:57 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 06:25
(UTC-0700):
Improvising on the command recommended by Nik Klepp:
du -sch /var/log/*
100K /var/log/alternatives.log
68K /var/log/apache2
4.0K /var/log/apparmor
1.4M /var/log/apt
60K /var/log/auth.log
316K /var/log/auth.log.1
28K /var/log/auth.log.2.gz
16K /var/log/auth.log.3.gz
4.0K /var/log/bittorrent
0 /var/log/bootstrap.log
0 /var/log/btmp
8.0K /var/log/camo
4.0K /var/log/c-icap
588K /var/log/clamav
124K /var/log/clamav-unofficial-sigs.log
40K /var/log/clamav-unofficial-sigs.log.1.gz
40K /var/log/clamav-unofficial-sigs.log.2.gz
96K /var/log/ConsoleKit
48K /var/log/cubemap
40K /var/log/cups
1.7M /var/log/daemon.log
6.7M /var/log/daemon.log.1
528K /var/log/daemon.log.2.gz
92K /var/log/daemon.log.3.gz
32K /var/log/debug
272K /var/log/debug.1
24K /var/log/debug.2.gz
4.0K /var/log/debug.3.gz
8.0K /var/log/dirmngr
0 /var/log/dmesg
3.0M /var/log/dpkg.log
60K /var/log/exim4
4.0K /var/log/fai
8.0K /var/log/faillog
60K /var/log/firewalld
12K /var/log/fontconfig.log
4.0K /var/log/fsck
0 /var/log/fts.log
4.0K /var/log/fts.log.1
4.0K /var/log/glusterfs
52K /var/log/gnunetd
4.0K /var/log/gnustep-back-common.log
8.0K /var/log/hp
15M /var/log/installer
0 /var/log/kdm.log
4.0K /var/log/kdm.log.1
19M /var/log/kern.log
40M /var/log/kern.log.1
3.5M /var/log/kern.log.2.gz
36K /var/log/kern.log.3.gz
20K /var/log/lastlog
8.0K /var/log/macchanger.log
4.0K /var/log/macchanger.log.1.gz
4.0K /var/log/macchanger.log.2.gz
4.0K /var/log/mail.err
4.0K /var/log/mail.err.1
4.0K /var/log/mail.err.2.gz
4.0K /var/log/mail.err.3.gz
4.0K /var/log/mail.info
4.0K /var/log/mail.info.1
4.0K /var/log/mail.info.2.gz
4.0K /var/log/mail.info.3.gz
4.0K /var/log/mail.log
4.0K /var/log/mail.log.1
4.0K /var/log/mail.log.2.gz
4.0K /var/log/mail.log.3.gz
4.0K /var/log/mail.warn
4.0K /var/log/mail.warn.1
4.0K /var/log/mail.warn.2.gz
4.0K /var/log/mail.warn.3.gz
19M /var/log/messages
40M /var/log/messages.1
3.5M /var/log/messages.2.gz
36K /var/log/messages.3.gz
4.0K /var/log/mixmaster
4.0K /var/log/ntpstats
8.0K /var/log/partimage
12K /var/log/privoxy
4.0K /var/log/samba
4.0K /var/log/speech-dispatcher
1.3M /var/log/syslog
19M /var/log/syslog.1
1.1M /var/log/syslog.2.gz
700K /var/log/syslog.3.gz
436K /var/log/syslog.4.gz
344K /var/log/syslog.5.gz
908K /var/log/syslog.6.gz
688K /var/log/syslog.7.gz
732K /var/log/tdm.log
8.0K /var/log/tor
12K /var/log/ufw.log
184K /var/log/ufw.log.1
24K /var/log/ufw.log.2.gz
12K /var/log/user.log
200K /var/log/user.log.1
16K /var/log/user.log.2.gz
8.0K /var/log/user.log.3.gz
444K /var/log/wicd
112K /var/log/wtmp
20K /var/log/Xorg.0.log
20K /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old
116K /var/log/xymon
180M total
I don't know if anything looks suspicious in that. I appreciate the help, if
anybody sees something, or can recommend where else to look.
Bill
So I get this in my terminal:
4.0K /afs
11M /bin
160M /boot
57M /etc
26G /home
576M /lib
4.0K /live-build
16K /lost+found
What's in /var/log/?
# du -sch /*
4.8M /bin
174M /boot
0 /dev
27M /etc
22G /home
1.4G /lib
19M /lib64
16K /lost+found
4.0K /media
4.0K /mnt
375M /opt
0 /proc
111M /root
2.5M /run
5.0M /sbin
4.0K /selinux
1.9G /srv
0 /sys
2.4G /tmp
5.4G /usr
1.6G /var
# df /
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/md2 18011336 7680600 9392760 45% /
3:27 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 06:25 (UTC-0700):
So I get this in my terminal:
4.0K /afs
11M /bin
160M /boot
0 /dev
57M /etc
26G /home
0 /initrd.img
0 /initrd.img.old
576M /lib
4.0K /live-build
16K /lost+found
What about the rest of /? It took my 18GB / a while to finish after it got to
lost+found.
16K /lost+found
4.0K /media
4.0K /mnt
375M /opt
0 /proc
111M /root
2.5M /run
5.0M /sbin
4.0K /selinux
1.9G /srv
0 /sys
2.4G /tmp
5.4G /usr
1.6G /var
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
3:30 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 08:27:19 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 06:25
(UTC-0700):
The rest seemed to be only my external hard drives, so I killed it when it
appeared to be doing nothing else. However, I can try to let it run longer.
Bill
So I get this in my terminal:
4.0K /afs
11M /bin
160M /boot
0 /dev
57M /etc
26G /home
0 /initrd.img
0 /initrd.img.old
576M /lib
4.0K /live-build
16K /lost+found
What about the rest of /? It took my 18GB / a while to finish after it got
to lost+found.
16K /lost+found
4.0K /media
4.0K /mnt
375M /opt
0 /proc
111M /root
2.5M /run
5.0M /sbin
4.0K /selinux
1.9G /srv
0 /sys
2.4G /tmp
5.4G /usr
1.6G /var
4:31 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
7:34 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 09:31 (UTC-0700):
...
13G total
- where I find that /usr/lib and /usr/share take up the most. I don't think
you really want to read the whole list for these folders. Thus here are the
items that take up the most space. Most look pretty innocuous:
1.6G /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu
but in /usr/lib at the end I get
5.3G total
- but nothing else is more than a few kb or mb. The same thing happens when I
look in /usr/share; the biggest item is:
1.9G /usr/share/doc
- and nothing else takes up more than a few kb or mb, yet at the end I get:
6.1G total
1-Have you ever manually added content to, or removed content from, /usr/ (other
than /usr/local/), including with a backup/restore program (not package any
manager)?
2-Is your / filesystem type BTRFS?
3-How many installed kernels and initrds do you have?
4-Do you have many optional font packages installed?
5-Asking on debian-user list may draw a more helpful response.
If answer to 1 is yes, suspect possible broken hard links.
Even though we both use 18G / filesystems, mine has only 444M in /usr/lib/ and
1.3G in /usr/share/. I have 5 installed kernels, and EXT4 /.
# df /
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/md2 18011336 7691316 9382044 46% /
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
7:58 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 12:34:39 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 09:31
(UTC-0700):
...
No.
13G total
- where I find that /usr/lib and /usr/share take up the most. I don't
think you really want to read the whole list for these folders. Thus here
are the items that take up the most space. Most look pretty innocuous:
1.6G /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu
but in /usr/lib at the end I get
5.3G total
- but nothing else is more than a few kb or mb. The same thing happens
when I look in /usr/share; the biggest item is:
1.9G /usr/share/doc
- and nothing else takes up more than a few kb or mb, yet at the end I
get: 6.1G total
1-Have you ever manually added content to, or removed content from, /usr/
(other than /usr/local/), including with a backup/restore program (not
package any manager)?
2-Is your / filesystem type BTRFS?
No, but I was trying to format a flash drive,
and that somehow started coming
up afterwards. However, the flash drive in question is not connected, and I
intend to format it as FAT-32, so I can use it on other systems.
3-How many installed kernels and initrds do you have?
2 each:
initrd.img 27.5 mb
initrd.img.old 26.4 mb
vmlinuz 2.9 mb
vmlinuz.old 2.7 mb
4-Do you have many optional font packages installed?
I do have lots of fonts installed, practically everything available. But I've
always done that (since 2006 when I started running Linux), because I work
with text and layout.
5-Asking on debian-user list may draw a more helpful response.
If answer to 1 is yes, suspect possible broken hard links.
Even though we both use 18G / filesystems, mine has only 444M in /usr/lib/
and 1.3G in /usr/share/. I have 5 installed kernels, and EXT4 /.
# df /
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/md2 18011336 7691316 9382044 46% /
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1) partition;
then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and
now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time,
I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
Bill
8:06 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
[...]
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1) partition;
then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and
now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time,
I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
I would suggest you make a clean installation.
nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
8:18 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 13:06:55 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
And I do intend to reinstall, and make the change to Devuan. But I did a
reinstallation before when I had this same problem, and it keeps coming back.
So I would like to resolve this issue before I move on to a Devuan
installation.
Bill
[...]
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1)
partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600,
400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0.
In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything
different.
I would suggest you make a clean installation.
nik
8:55 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
On Monday 19 March 2018 13:06:55 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
The last guy I had seen with a simillar problem of "vanishing free space" was a
human rights activist. He got a "lawful" trojan that took screenshots about
every second and stored them in a "hidden" folder.
Nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
And I do intend to reinstall, and make the change to Devuan. But I did a
reinstallation before when I had this same problem, and it keeps coming back.
So I would like to resolve this issue before I move on to a Devuan
installation. [...]
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1)
partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600,
400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0.
In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything
different.
I would suggest you make a clean installation.
nik
20 Mar
20 Mar
1:14 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 13:55:28 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Yeah, I've been worried about something like that for years now. That's why I
moved to SF from the Midwest. I've been working on a project that it seems
certain people "out there" don't like. And also among my friends I keep too
many friends of dark complexion, foreign origin, or the wrong religion.
These days, one can't be "too paranoid"; and I expect the Thought Police to
kick in my door at any moment. If that happens, it just proves that they are
more paranoid than I am. I mostly read ancient literature, and spend my life
deep in the past.
Oh well, you can't please everybody!
Bill
On Monday 19 March 2018 13:06:55 Dr. Nikolaus
Klepp wrote:
The last guy I had seen with a simillar problem of "vanishing free space"
was a human rights activist. He got a "lawful" trojan that took screenshots
about every second and stored them in a "hidden" folder.
Nik Am Montag, 19. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
And I do intend to reinstall, and make the change to Devuan. But I did a
reinstallation before when I had this same problem, and it keeps coming
back. So I would like to resolve this issue before I move on to a Devuan
installation. [...]
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1)
partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb,
600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes
down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or
done anything different.
I would suggest you make a clean installation.
nik
19 Mar
19 Mar
8:21 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 15:58 (UTC-0400):
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in
my / (sda1) partition;
then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600, 400, 200, and
now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0. In all this time,
I haven't installed anything new, or done anything different.
What do you get from
du -sch /var/log/jou*
???
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
20 Mar
20 Mar
12:59 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 12:58:11 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1)
partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600,
400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0.
In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything
different.
I may have missed that but it seems no one have asked it in the thread -
did you reboot you system during this time or is it a continuous uptime?
--
Nick Koretsky (nick.koretsky(a)gmail.com)
1:28 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 17:59:03 Nick Koretsky wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 12:58:11 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Yes, I did reboot. I probably was rebooting my system every few days, just
because my Firefox seems to be interfering with my network connection. And
while I was learning the differences in a Debian system (in contrast to
Ubuntu), I also rebooted constantly, because I was constantly messing up my
system. For the past few months, though, my system has been fairly stable,
and I haven't been downloading and installing new packages.
Right now the problems are: 1) my vanishing partition, 2) why Firefox messes
up my network connection, and 3) minor bugs.
Nowadays I might go a week or two without rebooting, unless I end up with no
space left on my root partition.
Bill
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb
free in my / (sda1)
partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb, 600,
400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes down to 0.
In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or done anything
different.
I may have missed that but it seems no one have asked it in the thread -
did you reboot you system during this time or is it a continuous uptime?
2:42 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:28:24 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Yes, I did reboot. I probably was rebooting my system every few days,
just because my Firefox seems to be interfering with my network
connection. And while I was learning the differences in a Debian system
(in contrast to Ubuntu), I also rebooted constantly, because I was
constantly messing up my system. For the past few months, though, my
system has been fairly stable, and I haven't been downloading and
installing new packages.
Right now the problems are: 1) my vanishing partition, 2) why Firefox
messes up my network connection, and 3) minor bugs.
Nowadays I might go a week or two without rebooting, unless I end up with
no space left on my root partition.
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You see one of a possible
reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some daemon
misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
--
Nick Koretsky (nick.koretsky(a)gmail.com)
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in
my / (sda1)
partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb,
600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes
down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or
done anything different.
I may have missed that but it seems no one have asked it in the thread -
did you reboot you system during this time or is it a continuous
uptime?
3 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 19:42:36 Nick Koretsky wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:28:24 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Yes, I did reboot. I probably was rebooting my system every few days,
just because my Firefox seems to be interfering with my network
connection. And while I was learning the differences in a Debian system
(in contrast to Ubuntu), I also rebooted constantly, because I was
constantly messing up my system. For the past few months, though, my
system has been fairly stable, and I haven't been downloading and
installing new packages.
Right now the problems are: 1) my vanishing partition, 2) why Firefox
messes up my network connection, and 3) minor bugs.
Nowadays I might go a week or two without rebooting, unless I end up with
no space left on my root partition.
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You see one of a possible
reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some daemon
misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence one reason for rebooting,
when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping issue of space
disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time.
Bill
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in
my / (sda1)
partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb,
600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes
down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or
done anything different.
I may have missed that but it seems no one have asked it in the thread
- did you reboot you system during this time or is it a continuous
uptime?
3:11 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 20:00 (UTC-0700):
Nick Koretsky wrote:
> Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space?
You see one of a possible
> reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some daemon
> misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence
one reason for rebooting,
when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping issue of space
disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time.
Maybe a look at /etc/fstab and output from
mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|tmpfs|^sys|on /dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var" |
sort
would help us help you.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
3:33 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 20:11:24 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 20:00
(UTC-0700):
Yes, and I do appreciate all the help, and thanks for your patience.
mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|tmpfs|^sys|on /dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var"
/dev/sda1 on / type ext2 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro)
/dev/sdc1 on /media/<sdc1> type ext3 (rw,relatime,data=ordered)
/dev/sdd1 on /media/<sdd1> type ext3 (rw,relatime,data=ordered)
/dev/sdb1 on /media/<sdb1> type ext3 (rw,relatime,data=ordered)
/dev/sda3 on /home type ext3 (rw,relatime,data=ordered)
gvfsd-fuse on /run/user/1000/gvfs type fuse.gvfsd-fuse
(rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=1000,group_id=1000)
/dev/sdf1 on /media/<USER>/4b4696d9-05d4-423f-acfa-707f7148f245 type ext3
(rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,data=ordered,uhelper=udisks2)
/dev/sdg1 on /media/<USER>/30A3-239E type vfat
(rw,nosuid,nodev,noatime,uid=1000,gid=1000,fmask=0022,dmask=0077,codepage=437,iocharset=utf8,shortname=lower,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro,uhelper=udisks2)
(Note: Changed user name, and names of mount points, for security reasons.)
I would just like to resolve this issue before I move on to resizing my
partition, and installing Devuan. If this is something bigger than just
temporary files (and it seems to me that it is), then creating a bigger root
partition will not solve my problems.
Like I mentioned before, I had about 2.2 gb of free space on that partition
about a month ago, then it gradually shrank down to 165 mb. Something is not
right there, I feel.
Bill
Nick Koretsky wrote:
Maybe a look at /etc/fstab and output from
mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|tmpfs|^sys|on /dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var" |
sort would help us help you. Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space?
You see one of a
possible reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some
daemon misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence one reason for
rebooting, when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping issue
of space disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time.
4:03 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 20:33 (UTC-0700):
mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|tmpfs|^sys|on
/dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var"
/dev/sda1 on / type ext2 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro)
How did this non-journaled / filesystem happen? Just go ahead and do your
reinstallation, but be sure to format / EXT3 or EXT4, so you have journaling to
assist in avoiding corruption in case of crashing or exhausting freespace. Make
a note of freespace/consumed space as soon as you finish installation, then
again after getting all your optional fonts installed, so you know how much
space was consumed initially and then when ready to work.
What is it you are running now, Jessie? I don't think I saw you mention it in
this thread. What CPU, chipset and gfxchip (how old is it all)? Why 32-bit? How
much RAM?
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
4:18 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 21:03:17 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 20:33
(UTC-0700):
Yes, running Debian Jessie 8.10 or whatever is the most recent update. I was
wondering about how to format root. I am used to ext2 for root partition from
older Ubuntu versions, but I see everybody using ext3 or ext4 now, so this
might be part of the problem.
It is 32-bit because I installed a new motherboard, and that is all that was
available for cheap. I've always run 64-bit before.
Any quick commands to find out CPU, chipset and gfxchip? And yes, some of it
is old (I did say it's a Frankenstein), but my motherboard is pretty new.
Bill
mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|tmpfs|^sys|on
/dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var"
/dev/sda1 on / type ext2 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro)
How did this non-journaled / filesystem happen? Just go ahead and do your
reinstallation, but be sure to format / EXT3 or EXT4, so you have
journaling to assist in avoiding corruption in case of crashing or
exhausting freespace. Make a note of freespace/consumed space as soon as
you finish installation, then again after getting all your optional fonts
installed, so you know how much space was consumed initially and then when
ready to work.
What is it you are running now, Jessie? I don't think I saw you mention it
in this thread. What CPU, chipset and gfxchip (how old is it all)? Why
32-bit? How much RAM?
4:37 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 21:18 (UTC-0700):
Yes, running Debian Jessie 8.10 or whatever is the
most recent update. I was
wondering about how to format root. I am used to ext2 for root partition from
older Ubuntu versions, but I see everybody using ext3 or ext4 now, so this
might be part of the problem.
Formatting / is usually a default option in any Linux installer, but they tend
to format the same type, which in your case is not desirable. Just be sure to
specify / get formatted and /home not.
It is 32-bit because I installed a new motherboard,
and that is all that was
available for cheap. I've always run 64-bit before.
Any quick commands to find out CPU, chipset and
gfxchip? And yes, some of it
is old (I did say it's a Frankenstein), but my motherboard is pretty new.
lspci
or
inxi -v4
should do well enough.
cat /proc/cpuinfo
can be misleading to the uninitiated, but does report whether limited to 32-bit
or not.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
5:03 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 21:37:42 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 21:18
(UTC-0700):
# lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 82945G/GZ/P/PL Memory Controller Hub
(rev 02)
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82945G/GZ Integrated
Graphics Controller (rev 02)
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family High Definition Audio
Controller (rev 01)
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family PCI Express Port 1 (rev
01)
00:1d.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB UHCI Controller
#1 (rev 01)
00:1d.1 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB UHCI Controller
#2 (rev 01)
00:1d.2 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB UHCI Controller
#3 (rev 01)
00:1d.3 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB UHCI Controller
#4 (rev 01)
00:1d.7 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB2 EHCI
Controller (rev 01)
00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev e1)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801GB/GR (ICH7 Family) LPC Interface
Bridge (rev 01)
00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) IDE Controller
(rev 01)
00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family SATA Controller [IDE
mode] (rev 01)
00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family SMBus Controller (rev 01)
02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Qualcomm Atheros Attansic L1 Gigabit Ethernet
(rev b0)
Yes, running Debian Jessie 8.10 or whatever is
the most recent update. I
was wondering about how to format root. I am used to ext2 for root
partition from older Ubuntu versions, but I see everybody using ext3 or
ext4 now, so this might be part of the problem.
Formatting / is usually a default option in any Linux installer, but they
tend to format the same type, which in your case is not desirable. Just be
sure to specify / get formatted and /home not.
It is 32-bit because I installed a new
motherboard, and that is all that
was available for cheap. I've always run 64-bit before.
Any quick commands to find out CPU, chipset and gfxchip? And yes, some of
it is old (I did say it's a Frankenstein), but my motherboard is pretty
new.
lspci or
inxi -v4
# inxi -v4
System: Host: debian Kernel: 3.16.0-5-686-pae i686 (32 bit gcc: 4.8.4)
Desktop: N/A Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 8
Machine: Mobo: ASUSTeK model: P5GC-VM v: Rev x.xx serial: MS1C79B00G03073
Bios: American Megatrends v: 0407 date: 09/22/2008
CPU: Dual core Intel Pentium Dual E2200 (-MCP-) cache: 1024 KB
flags: (lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 ssse3) bmips: 8800
Clock Speeds: 1: 2200 MHz 2: 2200 MHz
Graphics: Card: Intel 82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics Controller bus-ID:
00:02.0
Display Server: X.org 1.16.4 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
tty size: 131x31 Advanced Data: N/A for root
Network: Card-1: Qualcomm Atheros Attansic L1 Gigabit Ethernet driver: atl1
v: 2.1.3 bus-ID: 02:00.0
IF: eth0 state: down mac: 00:1d:60:7f:8e:50
Card-2: ZyDAS ZD1211B 802.11g driver: zd1211rw v: 1.0 usb-ID:
005-004
IF: wlan0 state: up mac: 00:02:72:1b:a5:2d
Drives: HDD Total Size: 7109.6GB (83.5% used) ID-1: /dev/sdb model:
WDC_WD15EADS size: 1500.3GB temp: 44C
ID-2: /dev/sdd model: WDC_WD20EADS size: 2000.4GB temp: 44C
ID-3: /dev/sda model: HTS541010G9SA00 size: 100.0GB temp: 32C
ID-4: /dev/sdc model: ST31500341AS size: 1500.3GB temp: 32C
ID-5: USB /dev/sde model: 10EAVS_External size: 1000.2GB temp: 0C
ID-6: USB /dev/sdf model: 10EAVS_External size: 1000.2GB temp: 0C
ID-7: USB /dev/sdg model: COBY_MP3_Player size: 8.1GB temp: 0C
Partition: ID-1: / size: 17G used: 16G (100%) fs: ext2 dev: /dev/sda1
ID-2: /home size: 72G used: 27G (40%) fs: ext3 dev: /dev/sda3
ID-3: swap-1 size: 4.00GB used: 3.40GB (85%) fs: swap
dev: /dev/sda2
Info: Processes: 374 Uptime: 14:57 Memory: 1390.6/2015.1MB Init: systemd
runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 4.9.2
Client: Shell (bash 4.3.301) inxi: 2.1.28
I only have 2 gb of RAM. I have extra memory sticks, but they are taken from
my old 64-bit system. In another few months, I hope to upgrade the memory,
when I can afford it, and to buy an external hard drive (at least 2-3 TB), so
that I can transfer files to that, and gradually clean up excess, make
everything more secure, etc. But for now, this is what I have to work with.
cat /proc/cpuinfo
# cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 6
model : 15
model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz
stepping : 13
microcode : 0xa4
cpu MHz : 2200.000
cache size : 1024 KB
physical id : 0
siblings : 2
core id : 0
cpu cores : 2
apicid : 0
initial apicid : 0
fdiv_bug : no
f00f_bug : no
coma_bug : no
fpu : yes
fpu_exception : yes
cpuid level : 10
wp : yes
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca
cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm
constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts aperfmperf pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl est
tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm lahf_lm dtherm
bogomips : 4400.45
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:
processor : 1
vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 6
model : 15
model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz
stepping : 13
microcode : 0xa1
cpu MHz : 2200.000
cache size : 1024 KB
physical id : 0
siblings : 2
core id : 1
cpu cores : 2
apicid : 1
initial apicid : 1
fdiv_bug : no
f00f_bug : no
coma_bug : no
fpu : yes
fpu_exception : yes
cpuid level : 10
wp : yes
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca
cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm
constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts aperfmperf pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl est
tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm lahf_lm dtherm
bogomips : 4400.45
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:
can be misleading to the uninitiated, but does report
whether limited to
32-bit or not.
I don't see anything unusual here, but maybe others are better able to
decipher the information.
Bill
5:33 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 22:03 (UTC-0700):
Felix Miata wrote:
...
> inxi -v4
# inxi -v4
You missed my redo
inxi -v4 -m
which details RAM slots and type.
model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200
@ 2.20GHz
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
Your hardware supports 64 bit. It's a close match to 3 of my own PCs, rather
old, but certainly very usable with TDE and 64-bit OS.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
6:12 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 22:33:10 Felix Miata wrote:
# inxi -v4
You missed my redo
inxi -v4 -m
which details RAM slots and type.> inxi -v4 -m
model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200
@ 2.20GHz
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
Your hardware supports 64 bit. It's a close match
to 3 of my own PCs, rather
old, but certainly very usable with TDE and 64-bit OS.
Maybe so, but when I tried to install 64-bit, it rejected the packages as the
wrong architecture, and I had a techie friend here confirm that it was
strictly 32-bit. Otherwise, I would use the memory sticks that I have sitting
right here, which would give me (I think) 6 gb of RAM.
# inxi -v4 -m
System: Host: debian Kernel: 3.16.0-5-686-pae i686 (32 bit gcc: 4.8.4)
Desktop: N/A Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 8
Machine: Mobo: ASUSTeK model: P5GC-VM v: Rev x.xx serial: MS1C79B00G03073
Bios: American Megatrends v: 0407 date: 09/22/2008
CPU: Dual core Intel Pentium Dual E2200 (-MCP-) cache: 1024 KB
flags: (lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 ssse3) bmips: 8800
Clock Speeds: 1: 2200 MHz 2: 2200 MHz
Memory: Placeholder: Feature not yet developed
Graphics: Card: Intel 82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics Controller bus-ID:
00:02.0
Display Server: X.org 1.16.4 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
tty size: 131x31 Advanced Data: N/A for root
Network: Card-1: Qualcomm Atheros Attansic L1 Gigabit Ethernet driver: atl1
v: 2.1.3 bus-ID: 02:00.0
IF: eth0 state: down mac: 00:1d:60:7f:8e:50
Card-2: ZyDAS ZD1211B 802.11g driver: zd1211rw v: 1.0 usb-ID:
005-004
IF: wlan0 state: up mac: 00:02:72:0c:e4:14
Drives: HDD Total Size: 7109.6GB (83.5% used) ID-1: /dev/sdb model:
WDC_WD15EADS size: 1500.3GB temp: 44C
ID-2: /dev/sdd model: WDC_WD20EADS size: 2000.4GB temp: 44C
ID-3: /dev/sda model: HTS541010G9SA00 size: 100.0GB temp: 29C
ID-4: /dev/sdc model: ST31500341AS size: 1500.3GB temp: 32C
ID-5: USB /dev/sde model: 10EAVS_External size: 1000.2GB temp: 0C
ID-6: USB /dev/sdf model: 10EAVS_External size: 1000.2GB temp: 0C
ID-7: USB /dev/sdg model: COBY_MP3_Player size: 8.1GB temp: 0C
Partition: ID-1: / size: 17G used: 16G (100%) fs: ext2 dev: /dev/sda1
ID-2: /home size: 72G used: 27G (40%) fs: ext3 dev: /dev/sda3
ID-3: swap-1 size: 4.00GB used: 3.44GB (86%) fs: swap
dev: /dev/sda2
Info: Processes: 374 Uptime: 16:08 Memory: 1437.3/2015.1MB Init: systemd
runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 4.9.2
Client: Shell (bash 4.3.301) inxi: 2.1.28
Bill
7:12 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200
@ 2.20GHz
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
That CPU is clearly 64-bit:
https://ark.intel.com/products/33925/Intel-Pentium-Processor-E2200-1M-Cache…
I don't know what could have gone wrong to make an installer think it wasn't
64-bit capable. I don't think there is such a thing as a socket LGA775
motherboard that doesn't support 64-bit CPUs. It may even be that there is no
such thing as a 32-bit CPU to fit a socket LGA775.
Could it be that the HD had a 32-bit OS installed and was trying to install in
upgrade mode? That might explain why the / filesystem was EXT2, and why you
wound up with / filesystems routinely losing space.
Maybe that model motherboard was released with a BIOS too old to properly
support the E2200 CPU, and needs a BIOS update. You can find the installed BIOS
version via BIOS setup, or from the POST screen, or use dmidecode.
Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard or need "techie" help. Fetch
and
burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction of
download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD I
previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
7:36 a.m.
New subject: my vanishing root partition
Felix Miata wrote:
Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard or
need "techie" help. Fetch
and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction
of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD I
previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
Felix, I didn't follow up this in detail, but why would one use DVD or CD
today, when there is USB stick that cost nothing?!
We are in 21st century
7:53 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 00:36:34 deloptes wrote:
Felix Miata wrote:
I can manage using dd to copy the image to a flash drive; I've done that
before. But I do have other uses for my available flash drives, although at
present I could use it as a one-time fix.
Also, it isn't so important to me to be on the cutting edge of everything. I
just want to get my computer rebuilt, running and stable. And I have several
stacks of brand-new, unused 100 CDs and 100 DVDs, but only a few flash
drives. In any case, this is not so important, and I can manage these
details.
All I want is to track down the source of this issue, resolve it, then resize
my root partition and change over to Devuan. And I can change to 64-bit
later, as well, if that will work. My most pressing problem at the moment is
why I am losing space on my root partition. Speaking of which: after a couple
more hours (during most of which I have been offline, as I was attending to
stuff in the real world), I am now down to 60.3 mb of free space. If you have
followed these threads, I was at something like 165 mb a few hours ago, and
200+ mb a day or so ago.
Bill
Bill
Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard
or need "techie" help. Fetch
and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction
of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD I
previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
Felix, I didn't follow up this in detail, but why would one use DVD or CD
today, when there is USB stick that cost nothing?!
We are in 21st century
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6:29 p.m.
New subject: my vanishing root partition
William Morder wrote:
All I want is to track down the source of this issue,
resolve it, then
resize my root partition and change over to Devuan. And I can change to
64-bit later, as well, if that will work. My most pressing problem at the
moment is why I am losing space on my root partition. Speaking of which:
after a couple more hours (during most of which I have been offline, as I
was attending to stuff in the real world), I am now down to 60.3 mb of
free space. If you have followed these threads, I was at something like
165 mb a few hours ago, and 200+ mb a day or so ago.
have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
regards
21 Mar
21 Mar
1:46 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 11:29:17 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
Well, the file itself is 170.8 kb. As to the content, there are a lot of
items, but it all seems to be ordinary processes. Should I be looking for
something in particular?
Bill
All I want is to track down the source of this
issue, resolve it, then
resize my root partition and change over to Devuan. And I can change to
64-bit later, as well, if that will work. My most pressing problem at the
moment is why I am losing space on my root partition. Speaking of which:
after a couple more hours (during most of which I have been offline, as I
was attending to stuff in the real world), I am now down to 60.3 mb of
free space. If you have followed these threads, I was at something like
165 mb a few hours ago, and 200+ mb a day or so ago.
have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
regards
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4:36 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 05:46:48 pm William Morder wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 11:29:17 deloptes wrote:
Re-install now, burning to many brain cells . The free space is way to small,
my Debian occupied space in root is 16 gb out of 20gb. I thought it was a
waste when I set this box up.
I hestitate to offer more info..what about swap?
\greg
William Morder wrote:
Well, the file itself is 170.8 kb. As to the content, there are a lot of
items, but it all seems to be ordinary processes. Should I be looking for
something in particular?
Bill All I want is to track down the source of this
issue, resolve it, then
resize my root partition and change over to Devuan. And I can change to
64-bit later, as well, if that will work. My most pressing problem at
the moment is why I am losing space on my root partition. Speaking of
which: after a couple more hours (during most of which I have been
offline, as I was attending to stuff in the real world), I am now down
to 60.3 mb of free space. If you have followed these threads, I was at
something like 165 mb a few hours ago, and 200+ mb a day or so ago.
have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
regards
4:51 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 21:36:43 Greg Madden wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 05:46:48 pm William Morder
wrote:
Yes, I am already there in spirit. I am tired, and too much time is wasted.
Thanks for everybody's patience. Even though I haven't yet resolved the
issue, I did pick up a lot of useful tips and commands, etc.
Right now I want to find a partition manager that I already have on CD
somewhere, or try to burn a new one. (It seems that k3b is failing to burn
discs. I might try burning a disc by command-line.) First I want to resize my
root partition, then make the switch to Devuan; although I might reinstall
Debian first, for sake of continuity.
By the way, now kmail crashes whenever I try to use keyboard shortcuts to
reply to emails. I have to choose reply from the menu instead.
On reboot, some space is reclaimed: free space moved back up to 140+ mb; and
now I am at 123 mb. The general tendency, however, is a steady and
incremental loss of space.
I suppose that I can still try to resolve this issue after reinstallation.
Bill
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 11:29:17 deloptes
wrote:
Re-install now, burning to many brain cells . The free space is way to
small, my Debian occupied space in root is 16 gb out of 20gb. I thought
it was a waste when I set this box up.
I hestitate to offer more info..what about swap?
\greg William Morder wrote:
Well, the file itself is 170.8 kb. As to the content, there are a lot of
items, but it all seems to be ordinary processes. Should I be looking for
something in particular?
Bill All I want is to track down the source of this
issue, resolve it,
then resize my root partition and change over to Devuan. And I can
change to 64-bit later, as well, if that will work. My most pressing
problem at the moment is why I am losing space on my root partition.
Speaking of which: after a couple more hours (during most of which I
have been offline, as I was attending to stuff in the real world), I
am now down to 60.3 mb of free space. If you have followed these
threads, I was at something like 165 mb a few hours ago, and 200+ mb
a day or so ago.
have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
regards
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4:44 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 06:46:48PM -0700, William Morder wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 11:29:17 deloptes wrote:
[...]
> have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
I also suggested that a couple of days ago. It is important to check the
root user's home directory as well as your standard home directory.
Well, the file itself is 170.8 kb. As to the content,
there are a lot of
items, but it all seems to be ordinary processes. Should I be looking for
something in particular?
If its only 170 kB, then it's not the problem you're looking for. The
scenario I was referring to is when you get thousands of X errors a
second, and the .xsession-errors file explodes out to hundreds of
megabytes or gigabytes in size.
Here's a thought... if you disconnect the internet, does the root
partition stop filling up? Give it, say, 10 minutes and see if it stops
growing, and then starts again when you turn the connection back on.
Does your ISP offer usage stats? If so, are they unusual?
My thinking is to discover whether or not this unusual disk usage is
purely internal, or whether it has something to do with the internet
access: either data being downloaded, or uploaded, or both.
Not necessarily something malicious. Maybe you've got a rogue
(misconfigured) program downloading updates over and over and over
again, thousands of times.
--
Steve
5:01 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 21:44:47 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 06:46:48PM -0700, William
Morder wrote:
Sometimes it keeps filling up. I tend to disconnect from the Internet when I
don't need the connection for anything, due to issues with the network
itself.
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 11:29:17 deloptes wrote:
[...]
> have you looked at ~/.xsession-errors ?
I also suggested that a couple of days ago. It is important to check the
root user's home directory as well as your standard home directory.
Well, the file itself is 170.8 kb. As to the
content, there are a lot of
items, but it all seems to be ordinary processes. Should I be looking for
something in particular?
If its only 170 kB, then it's not the problem you're looking for. The
scenario I was referring to is when you get thousands of X errors a
second, and the .xsession-errors file explodes out to hundreds of
megabytes or gigabytes in size.
Here's a thought... if you disconnect the internet, does the root
partition stop filling up? Give it, say, 10 minutes and see if it stops
growing, and then starts again when you turn the connection back on.
Does your ISP offer usage stats? If so, are they
unusual?
The Internet is provided by my apartment building, so our ISP offers nothing;
the network is also pretty insecure (the password could be cracked by a child
in about 15 minutes), and we constantly have issues with the network. The
access point is in the hallway outside my door, yet iwconfig shows that my
signal level is hardly ever above 50/100 for signal level.
My thinking is to discover whether or not this unusual disk usage is
purely internal, or whether it has something to do with the internet
access: either data being downloaded, or uploaded, or both.
Not necessarily something malicious. Maybe you've got a rogue
(misconfigured) program downloading updates over and over and over
again, thousands of times.
Only clamav tends to download updates a lot, and slows down everything.
Anyway, I think I'm just going to surrender to necessity and reinstall; but
not before I resize my root partition.
Bill
5:06 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
I remember once, there was a strange file
It was supposed to be terabytes.... in a disk of gigabytes
It was some strange error of the file system....
If you just reformat clean the root partition
The problem persist? (not convert)
20 Mar
20 Mar
8:13 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
deloptes composed on 2018-03-20 08:36 (UTC+0100):
Felix Miata wrote:
> Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard
or need "techie" help. Fetch
> and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction
> of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
> Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for
the Knoppix DVD or CD I
> previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
Felix, I didn't follow up this in detail, but why
would one use DVD or CD
today, when there is USB stick that cost nothing?!
We are in 21st century
Where are there sticks that cost nothing in any quantity?
OM are *far* cheaper than any sticks I ever got, especially on a size actually
needed and/or fitting basis, e.g. 670M for CD, 4G for DVD; and cheap enough to
use once and discard.
OM have room to write legibly on them what they contain
OM are uniform size and shape, much easier to catalog and inventory than
hundreds of different size and shape sticks.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
9:28 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 01:13:27 Felix Miata wrote:
deloptes composed on 2018-03-20 08:36 (UTC+0100):
I have memory sticks sitting right here beside me; I extracted them from my
old desktop after it got fried in a power surge. What I think our other
participant means is that (assuming one has a flash drive that's empty), it
costs nothing to burn the image to that drive, use it once for its intended
purpose, then erase the image; thus not wasting any CDs or DVDs.
As for the relative expense or cheapness of other memory sticks, right now I
have to scrape together my spare change to buy toilet paper. (No, I am not
joking.) In another few month, I expect that I will get my finances a little
more under control, but at present buying anything at all is a luxury.
For future reference, though, I will file away this information.
Bill
Felix Miata wrote:
Where are there sticks that cost nothing in any quantity?
OM are *far* cheaper than any sticks I ever got, especially on a size
actually needed and/or fitting basis, e.g. 670M for CD, 4G for DVD; and
cheap enough to use once and discard.
OM have room to write legibly on them what they contain
OM are uniform size and shape, much easier to catalog and inventory than
hundreds of different size and shape sticks. Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard
or need "techie" help.
Fetch and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small
fraction of download size and time, and see what happens in clean /
install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD
I previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to
do.
Felix, I didn't follow up this in detail, but why would one use DVD or CD
today, when there is USB stick that cost nothing?!
We are in 21st century
7:42 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 00:12:58 Felix Miata wrote:
Curiouser and curiouser. I feel like I have gone down the rabbit hole.
model name
: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
That CPU is clearly 64-bit:
https://ark.intel.com/products/33925/Intel-Pentium-Processor-E2200-1M-Cache
-2_20-GHz-800-MHz-FSB
I don't know what could have gone wrong to make an installer think it
wasn't 64-bit capable. I don't think there is such a thing as a socket
LGA775 motherboard that doesn't support 64-bit CPUs. It may even be that
there is no such thing as a 32-bit CPU to fit a socket LGA775.
Could it be that the HD had a 32-bit OS installed and
was trying to install
in upgrade mode? That might explain why the / filesystem was EXT2, and why
you wound up with / filesystems routinely losing space.
No, I previously had installed 64-bit Kubuntu (several versions) on that hard
drive; and the other hard drives were all used with that system, and other
systems, always 64-bit. This is the first time, in fact, that I have ever run
32-bit, and didn't really want it.
The hard drives were all used previously in my 64-bit Systemax no OS desktop
computer. I did really want 64-bit, but I tried the memory sticks, and tried
64-bit packages, all to no avail. Then my techie guy here told me, No, that I
had 32-bit.
Maybe that model motherboard was released with a BIOS
too old to properly
support the E2200 CPU, and needs a BIOS update. You can find the installed
BIOS version via BIOS setup, or from the POST screen, or use dmidecode.
Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard or need "techie" help. Fetch
and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction
of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD I
previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
One thing at a time ...
8:52 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 23:12 (UTC-0700):
Bios: American Megatrends v: 0407 date: 09/22/2008
William Morder composed on 2018-03-20 00:42 (UTC-0700):
Felix Miata wrote:
Curiouser and curiouser. I feel like I have gone down
the rabbit hole.
Sounds like it to me.
> Maybe that model motherboard was released with a
BIOS too old to properly
> support the E2200 CPU, and needs a BIOS update. You can find the installed
> BIOS version via BIOS setup, or from the POST screen, or use dmidecode.
# dmidecode bios-release-date
# dmidecode bios-version
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P5GCVM/HelpDesk_BIOS/ shows latest is v408
dated 2010-06-08, almost 2 years newer than yours.
> Testing for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard
or need "techie" help. Fetch
> and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small fraction
> of download size and time, and see what happens in clean / install mode.
> Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for
the Knoppix DVD or CD I
> previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to do.
One thing at a time ...
Jumping out of one hole into another isn't an answer. Exactly what were you
trying to install when your techie determined it didn't support 64-bit?
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
9:40 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 01:52:03 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 23:12
(UTC-0700):
Jumping out of one hole into another isn't an answer. Exactly what were you
trying to install when your techie determined it didn't support 64-bit?
He lives right here in my apartment building, although he is more reclusive
than J.D. Salinger, and only steps outside his door when there is a full
moon. At the time, we were working on this machine together. Of course, it is
yet possible that he could also be wrong here, but over all he has been very
reliable for what he knows; it's just that he seldom ventures farther than
the ice machine in our lobby. (For what it's worth, he finds pretty regular
work as a free-lance consultant, and I get lots of freebies.)
Be that as it may, when I did try to install 64-bit packages, and to use the
Debian 64-bit live DVD, my machine rejected it as the wrong architecture. So
I am a little confused, since I see the details that you point out, yet it
doesn't explain why my machine will not accept 64-bit installation discs or
software packages.
Bill
Bios: American Megatrends v: 0407 date:
09/22/2008
William Morder composed on 2018-03-20 00:42 (UTC-0700):
Felix Miata wrote:
Curiouser and curiouser. I feel like I have gone down the rabbit hole.
Sounds like it to me.
> Maybe that model motherboard was released
with a BIOS too old to
> properly support the E2200 CPU, and needs a BIOS update. You can find
> the installed BIOS version via BIOS setup, or from the POST screen, or
> use dmidecode.
# dmidecode bios-release-date
# dmidecode bios-version
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P5GCVM/HelpDesk_BIOS/ shows latest is
v408 dated 2010-06-08, almost 2 years newer than yours.
Testing
for 64-bit support shouldn't be hard or need "techie" help.
Fetch and burn a 64-bit network install .iso instead of a DVD, a small
fraction of download size and time, and see what happens in clean /
install mode.
Verifying 64-bit support would be another use for the Knoppix DVD or CD
I previously mentioned that a Gparted CD wouldn't likely be designed to
do.
One thing at a time ...
10:59 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
what if you gave in to conformity and installed ubuntu?
12:05 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 03:59:11 wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com wrote:
what if you gave in to conformity and installed
ubuntu?
Been there, done that. My computer ran like crap, kept doing things I didn't
want and couldn't control. I ran different versions of Ubuntu or Kubuntu from
2006 until last year, and liking it less and less as I went along.
For the most part, my computer is running great right now. There is this one
big problem, and the rest are just annoyances and bugs.
Bill
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21 Mar
21 Mar
5:08 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 13:05:15 William Morder wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 03:59:11
wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com wrote:
By ubuntu, i don't mean with unity/gnome
with trinity....
what if you gave in to conformity and installed
ubuntu?
Been there, done that. My computer ran like crap, kept doing things I
didn't want and couldn't control. I ran different versions of Ubuntu or
Kubuntu from 2006 until last year, and liking it less and less as I went
along.
For the most part, my computer is running great right now. There is this
one big problem, and the rest are just annoyances and bugs.
Bill
5:23 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 22:08:58 wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com wrote:
Don't even speak those names! I break out in hives just thinking about them.
On Tuesday 20 March 2018 13:05:15 William Morder
wrote:
> On Tuesday 20 March 2018 03:59:11 wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com wrote:
> > what if you gave in to conformity and installed ubuntu?
>
> Been there, done that. My computer ran like crap, kept doing things I
> didn't want and couldn't control. I ran different versions of Ubuntu or
> Kubuntu from 2006 until last year, and liking it less and less as I went
> along.
>
From Kubuntu 10.04 onwards, I kept trying to get TDE to work with Kubuntu, or
with any of the 'buntus. I always ended up with problems that made the
computer unusable. Then last year my motherboard got fried by a power surge,
so I determined to start over from scratch, and install some kind of
GNU/Linux, and settled on Debian as the most stable, with the most forks and
variants, and largest community.
For the most
part, my computer is running great right now. There is this
one big problem, and the rest are just annoyances and bugs.
Bill
By ubuntu, i don't mean with unity/gnome with trinity....
Again, been there, done that. I am really liking Debian in general (except for
systemd), and cannot imagine going back to Ubuntu or Kubuntu, not even with
TDE. I only want to make the transition to Devuan, which seems to stick to
the original principles of Debian more than Debian nowadays.
Only this issue has me worried. Otherwise, there are a lot of little bugs, but
I gradually track them down and resolve them.
Nice thing about Linux (regardless one's preference for what kind): it just
gets better and better over time, as one learns how to resolve problems;
whereas with the rotten Apple or Windoze, things start off good, and the
machine runs fast, then it's all downhill from there.
Bill
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8:46 p.m.
New subject: my vanishing root partition
William Morder wrote:
From Kubuntu 10.04 onwards, I kept trying to get TDE
to work with Kubuntu,
or with any of the 'buntus. I always ended up with problems that made the
computer unusable. Then last year my motherboard got fried by a power
surge, so I determined to start over from scratch, and install some kind
of GNU/Linux, and settled on Debian as the most stable, with the most
forks and variants, and largest community.
Usually you do clean minimal install of debian, add the trinity sources to
source.list and install trinity desktop (look at the installation guide)
As of systemd, I followed recommendations given on the debian-user list and
you need only to install sysv-rc sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils AFAIR. Then
automagicall init is used instead of systemd. I used to put
init=/lib/sysvinit/init into /etc/default/grub, but on the last machine
where I did the move, I skipped it and I still get init as process #1. I
have been using this for more than an year now and don't see why one should
go for devuan.
For normal average use root and /opt/trinity are about 10G, so if you give
20G for root partition, should be sufficient.
regards
11:04 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: my vanishing root partition
On Wednesday 21 March 2018 13:46:12 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
Yes, I believe somebody else mentioned something like this. I don't
necessarily want Devuan versus Debian, I just want to get sysvinit back, and
get rid of systemd. I already did some research in this, and believe I am
about ready to make the transition. I backed up everything, etc.
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere that it describes how to do
a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It
is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a
little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad
hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the
resources of the bigger names. I realize that redesigning the site is a big
job, but maybe a link (on the home page) to a site map would be a good place
to start?
For myself, I always used either the Trinity installation discs, or more
usually I would install one of the 'buntus, then use the guide for installing
TDE; so when I moved to Debian, I followed the same guide. If there were a
clearly marked place with instructions for minimal installation, I might have
saved myself a lot of time. Again, I believe that a lot of potential Trinity
users give up, because those who know already know, and they can only be
found here on the mailing list. Those who don't know (I mean the total n00bs)
don't know where to look, nor who to ask for help, and the questions
discussed on the mailing list are probably over their heads.
On my root partition, however, I have other stuff installed in opt, such as
Seamonkey and OpenOffice (don't like LibreOffice, as it messes up my
documents). Also, other software that I have tried out (such as the Vivaldi
browser) use the opt folder. (I don't currently use Vivaldi, but I like to
try out different things, then get rid of them again if I don't like them.)
So for my purposes, it's probably good to have a root partition that's larger
than normal, just so I have some wiggle room. I don't really use the home
partition for saving anything, anyway; everything there is moved to external
drives as soon as possible.
Also, thanks to the person who recommended the slacko live iso (based on
Slackware). It was very small (200+ mb), burned to a CD; also fast, and came
with many more programs than one would have guessed for such a small
live/installation disc. It also looked a little primitive or minimalistic,
but then I value speed and efficiency more than looks. I might try it out
when I do a dual-boot system.
Thanks for all the tips, both regarding my root partition, and also for the
transition from Debian to Devuan, or at least away from systemd and back to
sysvinit.
Bill
From Kubuntu 10.04 onwards, I kept trying to get
TDE to work with
Kubuntu, or with any of the 'buntus. I always ended up with problems that
made the computer unusable. Then last year my motherboard got fried by a
power surge, so I determined to start over from scratch, and install some
kind of GNU/Linux, and settled on Debian as the most stable, with the
most forks and variants, and largest community.
Usually you do clean minimal install of debian, add the trinity sources to
source.list and install trinity desktop (look at the installation guide)
As of systemd, I followed recommendations given on the debian-user list and
you need only to install sysv-rc sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils AFAIR. Then
automagicall init is used instead of systemd. I used to put
init=/lib/sysvinit/init into /etc/default/grub, but on the last machine
where I did the move, I skipped it and I still get init as process #1. I
have been using this for more than an year now and don't see why one should
go for devuan.
For normal average use root and /opt/trinity are about 10G, so if you give
20G for root partition, should be sufficient.
regards
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11:24 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-21 16:04 (UTC-0700):
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere
that it describes how to do
a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It
is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a
little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad
hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the
resources of the bigger names.
We went through this here a month ago. Doing a minimal installation is specific
to each Distro, not TDE, so "it" would have to be a bunch of pages, or a more
complicated page few or no single people could make alone.
For Stretch, the cmdline options I use on
http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::12201
that include string "install" will cause a truly minimal installation, to which
you need to add Xorg from Debian, to have a working base from which to run TDE.
If Devuan's installer is Debian-based, likely the same options would be
applicable. If not, Devuan's own docs, help forum and/or mailing list archive
ought to address such need.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
11:28 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-21 16:04 (UTC-0700):
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere
that it describes how to do
a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It
is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a
little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad
hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the
resources of the bigger names.
We went through this here a month ago. Doing a minimal installation is specific
to each Distro, not TDE, so "it" would have to be a bunch of pages, or a more
complicated page few or no single people could make alone.
For Stretch, the cmdline options I use on
http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::12201
that include string "install" will cause a truly minimal installation, to which
you need to add Xorg from Debian, to have a working base from which to run TDE.
If Devuan's installer is Debian-based, likely the same options would be
applicable. If not, Devuan's own docs, help forum and/or mailing list archive
ought to address such need.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
22 Mar
22 Mar
4:17 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] minimal installation preparation (was: my vanishing root partition)
Felix Miata composed on 2018-03-21 19:28 (UTC-0400):
William Morder composed on 2018-03-21 16:04
(UTC-0700):
> By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere
that it describes how to do
> a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It
> is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a
> little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad
> hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the
> resources of the bigger names.
We went through this here a month ago. Doing a minimal
installation is specific
to each Distro, not TDE, so "it" would have to be a bunch of pages, or a more
complicated page few or no single people could make alone.
For Stretch, the cmdline options I use on
http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::12201
that include string "install" will cause a truly minimal installation, to
which
you need to add Xorg from Debian, to have a working base from which to run TDE.
If Devuan's installer is Debian-based, likely the
same options would be
applicable. If not, Devuan's own docs, help forum and/or mailing list archive
ought to address such need.
Both Debian-based, and provides howto for minimal install:
https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/jessie-minimal-install
Instead of following the --include=nano instruction @Debootstrap, I would do
--include=mc, and have all its recommendeds at the outset.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
10:22 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] minimal installation
Felix Miata composed on 2018-03-22 00:17 (UTC-0400):
Felix Miata composed on 2018-03-21 19:28 (UTC-0400):
> William Morder composed on 2018-03-21 16:04
(UTC-0700):
>> By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is
nowhere that it describes how to do
>> a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to TDE. It
>> is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned, the site is a
>> little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are added on an ad
>> hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer project without the
>> resources of the bigger names.
> We went through this here a month ago. Doing a
minimal installation is specific
> to each Distro, not TDE, so "it" would have to be a bunch of pages, or a
more
> complicated page few or no single people could make alone.
> For Stretch, the cmdline options I use on
> http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::12201
> that include string "install" will cause a truly minimal installation, to
which
> you need to add Xorg from Debian, to have a working base from which to run TDE.
> If Devuan's installer is Debian-based, likely
the same options would be
> applicable. If not, Devuan's own docs, help forum and/or mailing list archive
> ought to address such need.
Both Debian-based, and provides howto for minimal
install:
https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/jessie-minimal-install
Instead of following the --include=nano instruction
@Debootstrap, I would do
--include=mc, and have all its recommendeds at the outset.
I just installed Devuan 2beta from a NETINST cd, with basic TDE, onto a 5.6GB
partition on an old AMD Sempron 64 with 2GB RAM. Current space consumed is 29% of /.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
8:47 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Wednesday 21 March 2018 16:28:43 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-21 16:04
(UTC-0700):
Yes, well ... I can do a minimal installation myself, if I choose, when I have
an available Internet connection.
I am interested in seeing more people come to use Trinity, because I believe
that that is the only way to get TDE accepted into the repositories for
Debian, Ubuntu, etc. - that is, into the mainstream.
Otherwise, if you want to keep Trinity as a private club, open only to a few,
then keep on doing what you are doing. If, on the other hand, you want to
keep using Trinity into the foreseeable future (and not be forced to change
to other DEs), then I believe it is in the interest of all of us to make
these methods a little more accessible to the general public.
Maybe other people here are not aware that there is a widespread prejudice -
or perhaps smear campaign - against TDE-Trinity "out there"? The notion is
supposed to be that the KDE3 desktop was long ago discarded by the mainstream
Linux community, and that any attempt to revive it as TDE is both absurd and
pathetic: as though we were an Amish community of computer users; or perhaps,
digitally-impaired, cranky old-timers. (Apologies to any Amish geeks or
cranky old-timers out there who may be reading!)
By the way, if I can help, I am a willing volunteer. I am not complaining
about TDE; I just don't want to be forced to return to some other, lesser
desktop, merely due to lack of public interest.
Bill
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is
nowhere that it describes how
to do a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to
TDE. It is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned,
the site is a little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are
added on an ad hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer
project without the resources of the bigger names.
We went through this here a month ago. Doing a minimal installation is
specific to each Distro, not TDE, so "it" would have to be a bunch of
pages, or a more complicated page few or no single people could make alone. For Stretch, the cmdline options I use on
http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::12201
that include string "install" will cause a truly minimal installation, to
which you need to add Xorg from Debian, to have a working base from which
to run TDE.
If Devuan's installer is Debian-based, likely the same options would be
applicable. If not, Devuan's own docs, help forum and/or mailing list
archive ought to address such need.
21 Mar
21 Mar
11:38 p.m.
New subject: my vanishing root partition
William Morder wrote:
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is nowhere
that it describes how
to do a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to
TDE. It is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned,
the site is a little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are
added on an ad hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer
project without the resources of the bigger names. I realize that
redesigning the site is a big job, but maybe a link (on the home page) to
a site map would be a good place to start?
installing the base system is not part of TDE.
It is very simple, I usually pick up the debian network installation disk or
usb image and when asked for system type I do not select anything except
basic
there many online step by step guides - example
https://www.pcsuggest.com/debian-minimal-install-guide/
For myself, I always used either the Trinity
installation discs, or more
usually I would install one of the 'buntus, then use the guide for
installing TDE; so when I moved to Debian, I followed the same guide. If
there were a clearly marked place with instructions for minimal
installation, I might have saved myself a lot of time. Again, I believe
that a lot of potential Trinity users give up, because those who know
already know, and they can only be found here on the mailing list. Those
who don't know (I mean the total n00bs) don't know where to look, nor who
to ask for help, and the questions discussed on the mailing list are
probably over their heads.
look at step 13 "Now select which components you want to install, choose
only standard system utilities if you want a minimal install"
On my root partition, however, I have other stuff
installed in opt, such
as Seamonkey and OpenOffice (don't like LibreOffice, as it messes up my
documents). Also, other software that I have tried out (such as the
Vivaldi browser) use the opt folder. (I don't currently use Vivaldi, but I
like to try out different things, then get rid of them again if I don't
like them.) So for my purposes, it's probably good to have a root
partition that's larger than normal, just so I have some wiggle room. I
don't really use the home partition for saving anything, anyway;
everything there is moved to external drives as soon as possible.
Backup that directory, when installing assign dedicated partition ( trinity
requires about 1G, I would count with 2G for trinity) so based on your
current size you can easily calculate the space.
If you have trinity already there, you can remove it (rm -rf ) after
restoring from backup and before installing new trinity desktop.
On my desktop root is 20G with 6.7G used, opt is bigger with a lot of custom
stuff, but as mentioned trinity would cope with anything above 2G very well
I put all of this on luks and LVM and now even installer can do it right.
regards
22 Mar
22 Mar
8:27 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
On Wednesday 21 March 2018 16:38:50 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
Does anybody here make /opt a separate partition? Since so many programs use
it that are better not to run with admin privileges, it seems better not to
put /opt in the root partition. But then I wonder if installations would go
awry for those packages that use /opt. (Not only TDE, but also other
programs, such as Seamonkey, OpenOffice, etc., use /opt for installation.)
Bill
By the way, on the Trinity pages, there is
nowhere that it describes how
to do a minimal installation (without other DEs), and just go straight to
TDE. It is probably there somewhere, but as others have also mentioned,
the site is a little disorganized, I think due to the fact that pages are
added on an ad hoc basis, and also that it's pretty much a volunteer
project without the resources of the bigger names. I realize that
redesigning the site is a big job, but maybe a link (on the home page) to
a site map would be a good place to start?
installing the base system is not part of TDE.
It is very simple, I usually pick up the debian network installation disk
or usb image and when asked for system type I do not select anything except
basic
there many online step by step guides - example
https://www.pcsuggest.com/debian-minimal-install-guide/
For myself, I always used either the Trinity
installation discs, or more
usually I would install one of the 'buntus, then use the guide for
installing TDE; so when I moved to Debian, I followed the same guide. If
there were a clearly marked place with instructions for minimal
installation, I might have saved myself a lot of time. Again, I believe
that a lot of potential Trinity users give up, because those who know
already know, and they can only be found here on the mailing list. Those
who don't know (I mean the total n00bs) don't know where to look, nor who
to ask for help, and the questions discussed on the mailing list are
probably over their heads.
look at step 13 "Now select which components you want to install, choose
only standard system utilities if you want a minimal install"
On my root partition, however, I have other stuff
installed in opt, such
as Seamonkey and OpenOffice (don't like LibreOffice, as it messes up my
documents). Also, other software that I have tried out (such as the
Vivaldi browser) use the opt folder. (I don't currently use Vivaldi, but
I like to try out different things, then get rid of them again if I don't
like them.) So for my purposes, it's probably good to have a root
partition that's larger than normal, just so I have some wiggle room. I
don't really use the home partition for saving anything, anyway;
everything there is moved to external drives as soon as possible.
Backup that directory, when installing assign dedicated partition ( trinity
requires about 1G, I would count with 2G for trinity) so based on your
current size you can easily calculate the space.
If you have trinity already there, you can remove it (rm -rf ) after
restoring from backup and before installing new trinity desktop.
On my desktop root is 20G with 6.7G used, opt is bigger with a lot of
custom stuff, but as mentioned trinity would cope with anything above 2G
very well
I put all of this on luks and LVM and now even installer can do it right.
regards
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8:36 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
Am Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
[...]
Does anybody here make /opt a separate partition? Since so many programs use
it that are better not to run with admin privileges, it seems better not to
put /opt in the root partition. But then I wonder if installations would go
awry for those packages that use /opt. (Not only TDE, but also other
programs, such as Seamonkey, OpenOffice, etc., use /opt for installation.)
beeing on the root-partition has nothing to do with admin privileges.
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
8:43 p.m.
New subject: my vanishing root partition
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
+1
and I personally have my /opt on dedicated logical volume - it is easier to
control or reinstall if needed, or backup etc.
[...]
Does anybody here make /opt a separate partition? Since so many programs
use it that are better not to run with admin privileges, it seems better
not to put /opt in the root partition. But then I wonder if installations
would go awry for those packages that use /opt. (Not only TDE, but also
other programs, such as Seamonkey, OpenOffice, etc., use /opt for
installation.)
beeing on the root-partition has nothing to do with admin privileges.
8:55 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: my vanishing root partition
On Thursday 22 March 2018 13:36:49 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 schrieb William Morder:
There is also the problem that, on reinstallation, the /opt folder (and any
configurations or modifications) will necessarily be overwritten. I would
like to prevent /opt from being overwritten, just as I do with my /home
folder.
Bill
[...]
Does anybody here make /opt a separate partition? Since so many programs
use it that are better not to run with admin privileges, it seems better
not to put /opt in the root partition. But then I wonder if installations
would go awry for those packages that use /opt. (Not only TDE, but also
other programs, such as Seamonkey, OpenOffice, etc., use /opt for
installation.)
beeing on the root-partition has nothing to do with admin privileges.
23 Mar
23 Mar
11:33 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-22 13:55 (UTC-0700):
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> beeing on the root-partition has nothing to do
with admin privileges.
There is also the problem that, on reinstallation, the
/opt folder (and any
configurations or modifications) will necessarily be overwritten. I would
like to prevent /opt from being overwritten, just as I do with my /home
folder.
Put the things _you_ put in /opt/ instead in /usr/local/, make /usr/local/ a
separate filesystem, and you needn't have that problem, unless maybe you're an
AntiX user. The only things in /opt/ on my systems are things the package
manager decides belong there, typically printer drivers, KDE3, or LO.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
24 Mar
24 Mar
4:04 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Friday 23 March 2018 16:33:04 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-03-22 13:55
(UTC-0700):
I don't choose to put anything there. When I install, the package manager
installs these items in that folder. (Seamonkey used to be installed like
other packages, but now it is separately maintained on SourceForge; and now
it gets installed in /opt. Likewise OpenOffice, now that Apache maintains it
separately, is installed there.)
My question is whether the package manager will put them there if I create a
separate partition for /opt. In any case, little tweaks have got them running
better.
Another question: Why are program files and folders for Icecat now installed
in /usr/lib/icecat - instead of in /home/<USER>/.mozilla/icecat (similar to
other Mozilla browsers)? I had to change permissions to get extensions to
work, or even to install; but it's not the first place one looks for this
stuff.
Bill
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Put the things _you_ put in /opt/ instead in /usr/local/, make /usr/local/
a separate filesystem, and you needn't have that problem, unless maybe
you're an AntiX user. The only things in /opt/ on my systems are things the
package manager decides belong there, typically printer drivers, KDE3, or
LO. beeing on the root-partition has nothing to do
with admin privileges.
There is also the problem that, on reinstallation, the /opt folder (and
any configurations or modifications) will necessarily be overwritten. I
would like to prevent /opt from being overwritten, just as I do with my
/home folder.
5:01 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-23 21:04 (UTC-0700):
My question is whether the package manager will put
them there if I create a
separate partition for /opt. In any case, little tweaks have got them running
better.
Config "tweaks" belong either in /etc/ or in ~. /opt/ shouldn't be touched
manually any more than /usr/lib/ or /usr/bin/.
Whether or not /opt/ is a separate filesystem the package manager has no
knowledge of, unless it's reading /etc/fstab, which I very seriously doubt.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
12:30 p.m.
New subject: my vanishing root partition
William Morder wrote:
I don't choose to put anything there. When I
install, the package manager
installs these items in that folder. (Seamonkey used to be installed like
other packages, but now it is separately maintained on SourceForge; and
now it gets installed in /opt. Likewise OpenOffice, now that Apache
maintains it separately, is installed there.)
I was thinking a while if I should answer this - I mean, start looking for
answer yourself as I don't feel to be a babysitter or put questions forward
if you search for an answer for lets say 30 minutes and can not find any
usable.
Of course everybody is free to ask or answer ... but I think you are asking
too much without listening and this is the motivation to write this,
because I told you to remove all that was not custom installed from /opt,
but you talk too much and listen too little. This is pure chaos.
Ask a definite question, complete the task and close the topic, after this
open new topic.
From the length of the discussion I can conclude that the question was vague
and it went off topic too much.
Just close this question with "my vanishing root partition" and open another
on how to proceed with /opt on new install
regards
2:58 p.m.
New subject: how to ask questions
On Saturday 24 March 2018 05:30:49 deloptes wrote:
I was thinking a while if I should answer this - I
mean, start looking for
answer yourself as I don't feel to be a babysitter or put questions forward
if you search for an answer for lets say 30 minutes and can not find any
usable.
Of course everybody is free to ask or answer ... but I think you are asking
too much without listening and this is the motivation to write this,
because I told you to remove all that was not custom installed from /opt,
but you talk too much and listen too little. This is pure chaos.
Ask a definite question, complete the task and close the topic, after this
open new topic.
From the length of the discussion I can conclude that the question was
vague and it went off topic too much.
Just close this question with "my vanishing root partition" and open
another on how to proceed with /opt on new install
regards
Actually, I've been done with "my vanishing root partition" for
several days
now. Other people have answered, and so I continue the thread, and ought to
have stopped when it went off-topic.
You might not have noticed, but I've been more or less offline for most of the
past week, while rebuilding my system. I made a few replies when I briefly
came back online.
I always search online first for answers to my tech questions, usually for
weeks or even months, for how to resolve problems, and otherwise I have lots
of books on Linux. Only after I have failed to find answers do I ask here on
the mailing list. My problem is not lack of searching, but rather that I
don't know quite how to ask the questions, because I am not really a geek. I
have only made myself into a kind of semi-demi-geek out of necessity, because
I cannot do otherwise.
About July or August of 2017 I installed Debian and Trinity, and I've
participated actively in the mailing list only since about November 2017,
once I had got TDE up and running fairly smoothly. Now I am just trying to
iron out the kinks.
I always ran KDE3, and haven't found a DE to compare with it, but changing to
Debian and Trinity takes a little more effort than running a ready-made
system. And by the way, I think the developers are doing a great job, and
I've watched Trinity improve over the years; I only wish it were easier to
find information. Then you wouldn't be bothered by my questions, as I would
rather read than to have exchanges like this.
In hopes that I might learn something, if I picked the brains of people who
know more than I, I put my questions to the group. Now, if you could kindly
tell me how properly to ask questions, I would be most obliged. I don't know
how else to learn but to ask, and I only ask when I haven't been able to find
the answers on my own.
"Those who know do not speak,
and those who speak do not know."
Regarding listening: I tried all the applicable suggestions that other put
forward, in trying to sort out this problem. However, I will save my specific
questions for a separate post under a different heading.
You are right, though, about it veering off-topic. Sorry about that, and I
ought to have either put the matter to rest or made a different heading; but
again, I was in the middle of rebuilding my system, you see.
I am just trying to learn, and the only way I know how to ask is just to ask.
Bill
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22 Mar
22 Mar
7:47 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: my vanishing root partition
Am Mittwoch, 21. März 2018 schrieb deloptes:
[...]
As of systemd, I followed recommendations given on the debian-user list and
you need only to install sysv-rc sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils AFAIR. Then
automagicall init is used instead of systemd. I used to put
init=/lib/sysvinit/init into /etc/default/grub, but on the last machine
where I did the move, I skipped it and I still get init as process #1. I
have been using this for more than an year now and don't see why one should
go for devuan.
That was true on jessie. But now systemd has infected lots of vital systems in debian. You
you cannot have a systemd-free debian any more - that's where devuan comes in :-)
Nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
8:03 a.m.
New subject: my vanishing root partition
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
That was true on jessie. But now systemd has infected
lots of vital
systems in debian. You you cannot have a systemd-free debian any more -
that's where devuan comes in :-)
IMO the problem is having it as proc #1
If it is called from time to time by an application that needs it, I don't
care - it never did any harm so far.
8:52 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: my vanishing root partition
On Thursday 22 March 2018 00:47:30 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 21. M�rz 2018 schrieb deloptes:
This was my understanding, as well, from reading Debian/Devuan pages; but
perhaps I am not so well-informed. I was intending to migrate to Devuan more
based on principle (because, in principle, they are more Debian than Debian).
Also, the Devuan community seems to be very well-organized, by comparison to
other distros; especially considering the fact that Devuan was only forked in
(I think) 2014.
Bill
[...]
As of systemd, I followed recommendations given on the debian-user list
and you need only to install sysv-rc sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils AFAIR.
Then automagicall init is used instead of systemd. I used to put
init=/lib/sysvinit/init into /etc/default/grub, but on the last machine
where I did the move, I skipped it and I still get init as process #1. I
have been using this for more than an year now and don't see why one
should go for devuan.
That was true on jessie. But now systemd has infected lots of vital systems
in debian. You you cannot have a systemd-free debian any more - that's
where devuan comes in :-)
Nik
23 Mar
23 Mar
12:12 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: my vanishing root partition
On Thursday 22 March 2018 12:52:15 pm William Morder wrote:
snip
. I was intending to migrate to Devuan
more based on principle (because, in principle, they are more Debian than
Debian).
snip
Bill
check Debians genome, that should clear things up :-)
greg
20 Mar
20 Mar
4:43 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
William Morder composed on 2018-03-19 21:18 (UTC-0700):
Yes, running Debian Jessie 8.10 or whatever is the
most recent update. I was
wondering about how to format root. I am used to ext2 for root partition from
older Ubuntu versions, but I see everybody using ext3 or ext4 now, so this
might be part of the problem.
Formatting / is usually a default option in any Linux installer, but they tend
to format the same type, which in your case is not desirable. Just be sure to
specify / get formatted and /home not.
It is 32-bit because I installed a new motherboard,
and that is all that was
available for cheap. I've always run 64-bit before.
Any quick commands to find out CPU, chipset and
gfxchip? And yes, some of it
is old (I did say it's a Frankenstein), but my motherboard is pretty new.
lspci
or
inxi -v4 -m
should do well enough.
cat /proc/cpuinfo
can be misleading to the uninitiated, but does report whether limited to 32-bit
or not.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
3:40 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 20:00:09 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
On Monday 19 March 2018 19:42:36 Nick Koretsky wrote:
Well, than you have two different issues at hand. Two deal with a space
that is reclaimed by reboot, run (when some space already gone)
lsof -nP +L1
and look for anything suspicious here. Also, if /tmp is on real disk (not
tmpfs), it is also a primal suspect for a space that is reclaimed by reboot.
For an issue with a long term lost space, the only thing i cab suggest it
to setup a cron to run something like
du -xcbd2 / > $(date +\%j%H)
--
Nick Koretsky (nick.koretsky(a)gmail.com)
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:28:24 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You see one of a
possible reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some
daemon misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence one reason for
rebooting, when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping issue
of space disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time.
>
About a month ago, I had something like 2.2 gb free in my / (sda1)
> partition; then it went down to 1.5, then to 1 gb, then to 800 mb,
> 600, 400, 200, and now I am at about 165 mb, and sometimes it goes
> down to 0. In all this time, I haven't installed anything new, or
> done anything different.
I may have missed that but it seems no one have asked it in the
thread
- did you reboot you system during this time or is it a continuous
uptime?
Yes, I did reboot. I probably was rebooting my system every few days,
just because my Firefox seems to be interfering with my network
connection. And while I was learning the differences in a Debian
system (in contrast to Ubuntu), I also rebooted constantly, because I
was constantly messing up my system. For the past few months, though,
my system has been fairly stable, and I haven't been downloading and
installing new packages.
Right now the problems are: 1) my vanishing partition, 2) why Firefox
messes up my network connection, and 3) minor bugs.
Nowadays I might go a week or two without rebooting, unless I end up
with no space left on my root partition.
3:52 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 20:40:00 Nick Koretsky wrote:
Well, than you have two different issues at hand. Two deal with a space
that is reclaimed by reboot, run (when some space already gone)
lsof -nP +L1
and look for anything suspicious here. All entries are marked as deleted. I could
give you the whole list, but it is
very long, and besides I am trying not to give out my user name, and other
specific details. Anything I ought to look for, if all items are already
marked as deleted?
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You
see one of a
possible reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If some
daemon misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence one reason for
rebooting, when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping issue
of space disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time. Also, if /tmp is on real disk (not
tmpfs), it is also a primal suspect for a space that is reclaimed by
reboot.
I did look in /tmp, but there is nothing much there; although the presence of
a systemd entry does bother me - but maybe this is by design.
For an issue with a long term lost space, the only
thing i cab suggest it
to setup a cron to run something like
du -xcbd2 / > $(date +\%j%H)
Running the cron job now.
Bill
4:31 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 20:52:44 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Well, than you have two different issues at hand. Two deal with a space
that is reclaimed by reboot, run (when some space already gone)
lsof -nP +L1
and look for anything suspicious here. All entries are marked as deleted. I
could give you the whole list, but
it is very long, and besides I am trying not to give out my user name,
and other specific details. Anything I ought to look for, if all items
are already marked as deleted?
This command list "deleted" files which are not yet actually deleted, only
references to them are removed. They are still opened by some program and
will use disk space until program closes them. Strictly speaking there
should be no such files at all, but bad programing practices and simple
errors exists, so actual situation is not as rosy. Browsers, especially
chrome, are notorious for this shit, but the files they used should mostly
be in /home or /run Look for any files that are located on root in this
list. BTW, i have just run this command on my machine and palemoon have
are 80MB deleted file in /temp open.... as an example of possible things.
Oops send previous without message without finishing. Accumulate output
from this cron job (at hourly interval) for a few days, than diff them to
pinpoint where and when directory sizes are growing.
--
Nick Koretsky (nick.koretsky(a)gmail.com)
Well, i mean does reboot reclaim that lost space? You
see one of a
possible reason for a "vanished" space are open deleted files. If
some daemon misbehave with cache or imporper log rotations, etc...
It does reclaim some of the lost space, yes - hence one reason for
rebooting, when I run out of space - but there is still a creeping
issue of space disappearing in increments of a couple mb at a time. Also, if /tmp
is on real disk (not
tmpfs), it is also a primal suspect for a space that is reclaimed by
reboot.
I did look in /tmp, but there is nothing much there; although the
presence of a systemd entry does bother me - but maybe this is by design.
For an issue with a long term lost space, the
only thing i cab suggest
it to setup a cron to run something like
du -xcbd2 / > $(date +\%j%H)
Running the cron job now.
1:23 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 05:10:15AM -0700, William Morder wrote:
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my root
partition keep
disappearing?
When you say root partition, I assume you mean that /home is a separate
partition.
Check for anything unusual in the logs. What do they say?
One you might not think of is .xsession-errors, which is normally in
your home directory. If you are logged into a GUI as root, you could
have /root/.xsession-errors too. I once had one grow large enough to
fill my home partition in a matter of hours. I don't remember what was
causing it, sorry, but if you find the .xsession-errors file is huge,
you can always read it and see what it says.
(I'm assuming the systemd hasn't eliminated .xsession-errors, like
they've eliminated everything else pure and good in the world...)
Check for file system corruption.
https://superuser.com/questions/401217/how-to-check-root-partition-with-fsck
Run smartctrl to check the disk. Suppose your root partition is on
/dev/sda, I would run something like:
# basic health check
smartctl -H -d ata /dev/sda
# short test
smartctl -t short -C -d ata /dev/sda
smartctl -a /dev/sda
smartctl isn't the easiest or most intuitive program in the world, make
sure you read some tutorials first. Try this one:
https://www.thomas-krenn.com/en/wiki/SMART_tests_with_smartctl
If you're running solid state disks, there's probably no point: in
general, they either work, or die, with nothing in between.
If you've eliminated everything else -- emptied all caches, no file
system corruption or bad disks, no unusual entries in the logs etc --
then you may have to consider the possibility that you've been hacked,
despite all your security. If somebody is using your computer for
bitcoin mining, that might do it: the block chain exceeded 100GB a few
years ago.
http://www.coinfox.info/news/6700-bitcoin-blockchain-size-reaches-100-gb
Yes, that's 100 gigabytes. Or simply storing their warez on your
computer, like it's 1999 again :-)
--
Steve
2:40 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:23:15 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 05:10:15AM -0700, William
Morder wrote:
My /dev/sda is set up like so:
sda1 /
sda2 swap
sda3 /home
Okay, so riddle me this: Why does space on my
root partition keep
disappearing?
When you say root partition, I assume you mean that /home is a separate
partition.
Check for anything unusual in the logs. What do they
say?
Checking logs will take a while, but will get to that. I will look
into .xsession-errors first. I sometimes log into konqueror as root, just for
troubleshooting, but I don't leave it open.
One you might not think of is .xsession-errors, which
is normally in
your home directory. If you are logged into a GUI as root, you could
have /root/.xsession-errors too. I once had one grow large enough to
fill my home partition in a matter of hours. I don't remember what was
causing it, sorry, but if you find the .xsession-errors file is huge,
you can always read it and see what it says.
(I'm assuming the systemd hasn't eliminated .xsession-errors, like
they've eliminated everything else pure and good in the world...)
Yes, systemd is a sure sign that Doomsday is approaching:
https://web.archive.org/web/20180219182020/https://www.infoworld.com/articl…
Check for file system corruption.
https://superuser.com/questions/401217/how-to-check-root-partition-with-fsc
k
Run smartctrl to check the disk. Suppose your root partition is on
/dev/sda, I would run something like:
# basic health check
smartctl -H -d ata /dev/sda
# short test
smartctl -t short -C -d ata /dev/sda
smartctl -a /dev/sda
smartctl isn't the easiest or most intuitive program in the world, make
sure you read some tutorials first. Try this one:
https://www.thomas-krenn.com/en/wiki/SMART_tests_with_smartctl
If you're running solid state disks, there's probably no point: in
general, they either work, or die, with nothing in between.
If you've eliminated everything else -- emptied all caches, no file
system corruption or bad disks, no unusual entries in the logs etc --
then you may have to consider the possibility that you've been hacked,
despite all your security. If somebody is using your computer for
bitcoin mining, that might do it: the block chain exceeded 100GB a few
years ago.
http://www.coinfox.info/news/6700-bitcoin-blockchain-size-reaches-100-gb
Yes, that's 100 gigabytes. Or simply storing their warez on your
computer, like it's 1999 again :-)
I did have a problem where Firefox kept freezing my computer, or disconnecting
me; but once I changed to Icecat, it my computer has been purring like a
kitten.
8:14 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] my vanishing root partition
On Monday 19 March 2018 06:23:15 Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
If you've eliminated everything else -- emptied all caches, no file
system corruption or bad disks, no unusual entries in the logs etc --
then you may have to consider the possibility that you've been hacked,
despite all your security. If somebody is using your computer for
bitcoin mining, that might do it: the block chain exceeded 100GB a few
years ago.
http://www.coinfox.info/news/6700-bitcoin-blockchain-size-reaches-100-gb
Yes, that's 100 gigabytes. Or simply storing their warez on your
computer, like it's 1999 again :-)
I am checking out the other links concerning tests to run. I'm pretty sure my
hard disk is not corrupted; I run fsck fairly often. And I doubt it is
bitcoin mining (although I only know bitcoin from the defensive position).
I not only block (or attempt to block) bitcoin miners, but also modify my
hosts file to block all ads, and disable ipv6, etc.
Richard Stallman keeps telling me that the proper word here is "cracked"
not "hacked"; and I agree, though I know everybody, including myself, says
hacked for both good and bad. Anyway, if I have been cracked or hacked, it is
either through brute force, or somebody got physical access to my computer
(which I lock down when I leave the house); or maybe by somebody with a lot
of money and resources.
Otherwise, my attacker has impressive skills, and his/her/their talents are
wasted on low-hanging fruit like whatever is on my computer. They really
ought to consider aiming for bigger targets, as I will just crawl back under
my rock again.
Bill
It could be that there is somebody out there who found a way in, but I
24 Mar
24 Mar
3:18 p.m.
New subject: partitioning - opt & etc
Okay, so new thread!
As I was repartitioning my hard drive, I was trying to find out the lowdown on
this /opt folder. This is a new thing since I have started running Trinity; I
never noticed it before when running Kubuntu. Only after I started running
the Trinity desktop, that is when I noticed the installation to /opt; and
only then I noticed that other programs were installing in that folder.
A friend told me that he creates separate partitions for both /opt and /etc;
and then, too, I noticed that the new Icecat browser does something even
weirder, which is to install in /usr/lib/icecat, rather than (like other
Mozilla browsers) in /home/<USER>/.mozilla/.
My question is really more or less the same for all these items. I want to be
able, once I have configured them as I wish, just to clone that directory, so
that I don't have to keep reinventing the wheel, over and over again.
When I tried to research the /opt folder, I didn't find out much. If I create
a separate partition, will I be able to leave it untouched like my home
folder? Will Trinity (and other programs) automatically be installed there?
I suppose could just back it up regularly, then overwrite it once I have
reinstalled, but I would like to treat it like my /home/<USER>/ folder, and
leave it intact.
The same with Icecat: it seems to run better than Firefox/Iceweasel, but to
install everything in /usr/lib/icecat seems very irregular. Is there some way
to get it to install elsewhere? for example, in /opt?
Bill
6:56 p.m.
New subject: partitioning - opt & etc
William Morder wrote:
Okay, so new thread!
Thats good.
You can read about partitioning your drive
https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/apc.html.en
It is minimalistic but it gives you an impression
So what I usually do is having two partitions (assume you install
on /dev/sda)
/dev/sda1 about 512MB format ext3 or ext4 will be boot partition
/dev/sda2 the rest of the drive
when installing I choose to encrypt (luks) /dev/sda2
then create logical volumes on the encrypted partition. Typically:
/dev/mapper/G500lvm-data
/dev/mapper/G500lvm-home
/dev/mapper/G500lvm-opt
/dev/mapper/G500lvm-root
/dev/mapper/G500lvm-swap
you've got some recommendations about root and opt - the rest depends on you
swap is at least 1x or 2x the memory you have. I choose the maximum memory
size I can place into the machine (you never know)
and then install as mentioned before: first minimal debian and then TDE
good luck
7:55 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] browser user data (was: partitioning - opt & etc)
William Morder composed on 2018-03-24 08:18 (UTC-0700):
A friend told me that he creates separate partitions
for both /opt and /etc;
and then, too, I noticed that the new Icecat browser does something even
weirder, which is to install in /usr/lib/icecat, rather than (like other
Mozilla browsers) in /home/<USER>/.mozilla/.
Mozilla browser *profiles* (user data) traditionally go in ~/.mozilla
(/home/username/.mozilla). On my systems this is Firefox and SeaMonkey.
Thunderbird's go in ~/.thunderbird.
Mozilla predates other common GUI web browsers by a bunch of years, when users'
appdata went in $HOME by convention. Newer browsers, eg $HOME/.config/chromium,
have adopted a superceding convention, $HOME/.config/appname/.
/usr/lib/appname is where most apps go, main exception being those that
inexplicably decide on /opt/ instead.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
16 Apr
16 Apr
1:03 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] partitioning - opt & etc
http://www.linuxbase.org/betaspecs/fhs/fhs/index.html
"/opt is reserved for the installation of add-on application software
packages.
A package to be installed in /opt must locate its static files in a
separate /opt/<package> or /opt/<provider> directory tree, where
<package>
is a name that describes the software package and <provider> is the
provider's LANANA registered name."
"/usr/lib includes object files and libraries. On some systems, it may
also include internal binaries that are not intended to be executed
directly by users or shell scripts.
Applications may use a single subdirectory under /usr/lib. If an
application uses a subdirectory, all architecture-dependent data
exclusively used by the application must be placed within that
subdirectory."
As for partitioning your drive, I don't do separate partitions for /etc
/opt /home. It has been decades since I even heard of anyone recommending
doing that.
-LTH
On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 11:18 AM, William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com>
wrote:
Okay, so new thread!
As I was repartitioning my hard drive, I was trying to find out the
lowdown on
this /opt folder. This is a new thing since I have started running
Trinity; I
never noticed it before when running Kubuntu. Only after I started running
the Trinity desktop, that is when I noticed the installation to /opt; and
only then I noticed that other programs were installing in that folder.
A friend told me that he creates separate partitions for both /opt and
/etc;
and then, too, I noticed that the new Icecat browser does something even
weirder, which is to install in /usr/lib/icecat, rather than (like other
Mozilla browsers) in /home/<USER>/.mozilla/.
My question is really more or less the same for all these items. I want to
be
able, once I have configured them as I wish, just to clone that directory,
so
that I don't have to keep reinventing the wheel, over and over again.
When I tried to research the /opt folder, I didn't find out much. If I
create
a separate partition, will I be able to leave it untouched like my home
folder? Will Trinity (and other programs) automatically be installed there?
I suppose could just back it up regularly, then overwrite it once I have
reinstalled, but I would like to treat it like my /home/<USER>/ folder, and
leave it intact.
The same with Icecat: it seems to run better than Firefox/Iceweasel, but to
install everything in /usr/lib/icecat seems very irregular. Is there some
way
to get it to install elsewhere? for example, in /opt?
Bill
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22 May
22 May
7:42 a.m.
New subject: my rebellious lower panel
Another recurring bug: Now, icons, applets, etc., move around, even after I
lock the lower panel on the screen, even after rebooting, even after I have
gone through several sessions and reboots. Sometimes icons and applets appear
on top of one another, or disappear altogether. I unlock the panel and drag
everything back to where I want it, lock it again, then everything seems to
settle down for a session. And when I reboot, it's all messed-up again.
Everything was fine for months on end, until I made the mistake of trying to
nudge some icons slightly to create a little more empty space. (I even
restored them to their previous state, and relocked the panel, but that
didn't work.)
I've enclosed some screenshots as attachments, so that everybody can see how I
want it to look (right) and how it gets messed-up (wrong). Note that there
are several marked "wrong"; and that these kept moving round even though I
had the panel locked at the time.
By the way, I am running Debian Jessie 8.8.0 (upgraded to 8.10 or whatever),
and Trinity R14.0.4.
Any suggestions or observations will be appreciated. Thanks!
Bill
8 Jun
8 Jun
2:18 a.m.
New subject: can burn DVDs but not CDs
I'm not sure if this is problem that specifically concerns Trinity. I
generally burn CDs and DVDs with k3b, and almost never use any other program.
(I'm using the k3b-trinity packages.) I considered trying to use the
non-Trinity version of k3b, or to boot into a KDE desktop instead of TDE, to
see if that works. However, I also tried with Brasero, and had similar
problems, so I'm guessing that the problem is not just with Trinity.
No problem at all burning DVDs, including dual-layer. (I don't know about
Blu-Ray, but I don't use them.) Whenever I try to burn CDs, however, k3b goes
through the whole process, creating image, normalisation, etc., then crashes
before it actually burns the CD.
I ought to say that these are audio CDs. I've tried burning flac and wav files
to CD, both with the same bad results. Also, a few weeks back, I tried to
copy a large collection of mp3 files to a DVD as a data disc, but the program
crashed before it could complete, and ruined the disc. I don't know if that
incident could be related or not.
It occurs to me to try to write a CD from the command-line, using growisofs or
the like, but I've never done that before.
I'm running Debian Jessie 8.8.0 and Trinity r14.04.
Any help or observations would be appreciated.
Bill
13 Jun
13 Jun
3:31 a.m.
New subject: a perfectly good system shot to hell
Actually, it's running sort of okay, which is surprising, considering that I
cannot find my wlan0 interface, yet I can still connect to the internet and
send and receive emails; except that, as far as my system is concerned, I am
not actually connected, even though I really am connected.
It all started when I couldn't download packages from the repository at
security.debian.org. After doing a little research, I discovered that
security packages will no longer be supported for Jessie after (I think) 17
June 2018. And I had been putting off upgrading to Stretch, and furthermore I
really wanted to switch to Devuan. So now I've done it, but there are a few
bugs. I was worried that my system would be unusable, but instead it is just
somewhat crippled.
So my process was first to change repositories in my sources.list, from Jessie
to Stretch, then I upgraded. Then I changed sources.list again to Devuan
Ascii, and upgraded yet again.
Now my network managers and other network-aware programs cannot recognize
wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the shared network in
my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even bother suggesting that
I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to plug in *to*: it's wifi or
nothing.
I seem to recall that other systems (maybe Stretch?) used different names for
some of the same interfaces, so it might just be a problem of renaming my
wlan0 interface to something else. Only I can't find any other names.
Also I cannot use Tor, or anything over proxy servers. As I said, the problem
here seems to be that my system cannot find the interface that I use to
connect. I can see activity over what appears to be wlan0, yet I cannot
activate wlan0 either through a gui program, or by command-line, or by
changing the lines in
/etc/network/interfaces
... so any help here would be appreciated. It seems to be a simple basic
problem, since I still have a running system with some kind of network.
But yay! I have got Devuan Ascii running on my system, so I imagine the rest
of my problems as just fine tuning.
Please help!
Bill
6:35 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On 12 June 2018 at 20:31, William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Actually, it's running sort of okay, which is
surprising, considering that I
cannot find my wlan0 interface, yet I can still connect to the internet and
send and receive emails; except that, as far as my system is concerned, I am
not actually connected, even though I really am connected.
It all started when I couldn't download packages from the repository at
security.debian.org. After doing a little research, I discovered that
security packages will no longer be supported for Jessie after (I think) 17
June 2018. And I had been putting off upgrading to Stretch, and furthermore I
really wanted to switch to Devuan. So now I've done it, but there are a few
bugs. I was worried that my system would be unusable, but instead it is just
somewhat crippled.
So my process was first to change repositories in my sources.list, from Jessie
to Stretch, then I upgraded. Then I changed sources.list again to Devuan
Ascii, and upgraded yet again.
Now my network managers and other network-aware programs cannot recognize
wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the shared network in
my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even bother suggesting that
I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to plug in *to*: it's wifi or
nothing.
I seem to recall that other systems (maybe Stretch?) used different names for
some of the same interfaces, so it might just be a problem of renaming my
wlan0 interface to something else. Only I can't find any other names.
Also I cannot use Tor, or anything over proxy servers. As I said, the problem
here seems to be that my system cannot find the interface that I use to
connect. I can see activity over what appears to be wlan0, yet I cannot
activate wlan0 either through a gui program, or by command-line, or by
changing the lines in
/etc/network/interfaces
... so any help here would be appreciated. It seems to be a simple basic
problem, since I still have a running system with some kind of network.
But yay! I have got Devuan Ascii running on my system, so I imagine the rest
of my problems as just fine tuning.
Please help!
Bill
Something similar happened after I installed Devuan Ascii in a new
partition: wlan0 wasn't seen by wicd or any other program. After a
lot of fussing, I had to get a deb file with the driver for my
wireless card and install it using gdebi. After that, wlan0 was
available (maybe had to reboot).
- R
7:05 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Tue June 12 2018 20:31:27 William Morder wrote:
Now my network managers and other network-aware
programs cannot recognize
wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the shared network in
my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even bother suggesting
that I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to plug in *to*: it's wifi
or nothing.
Did I miss seeing this question on the Devuan list?
What sayeth "ipconfig", "ip link", "iwconfig", "dpkg -l
| grep udev",
"dpkg -l | grep dbus", "dpkg -l | grep network-manager",
"dpkg -l | grep wpa", "ps ax | head -2", and "cat
/etc/network/interfaces"?
FWIW my wlan0 is running fine in Ascii + TDE with openvpn and quagga,
although we don't use network manager.
--Mike
8 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Wednesday 13 June 2018 00:05:07 Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue June 12 2018 20:31:27 William Morder wrote:
I did try some of those already. However, just to be sure, I'll go through
your list to see if anything interesting comes up.
I keep running apt-get -f install, and apt keeps finding new things to install
or uninstall.
Now I can run a proxy, send and receive email; but I cannot use any direct
connections. One good thing: the Devuan servers are a lot faster than Debian
servers. It's probably just due to fewer people using them, but it's nice
have quicker downloads.
Bill
Now my network managers and other network-aware
programs cannot recognize
wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the shared network
in my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even bother
suggesting that I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to plug in
*to*: it's wifi or nothing.
Did I miss seeing this question on the Devuan list?
What sayeth "ipconfig", "ip link", "iwconfig", "dpkg
-l | grep udev",
"dpkg -l | grep dbus", "dpkg -l | grep network-manager",
"dpkg -l | grep wpa", "ps ax | head -2", and "cat
/etc/network/interfaces"?
FWIW my wlan0 is running fine in Ascii + TDE with openvpn and quagga,
although we don't use network manager.
--Mike
8:13 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Wed June 13 2018 01:00:03 William Morder wrote:
but I cannot use any direct connections
You appear to be using a direct SMTP connection, and probably also
a direct POP3 or IMAP connection. What kind of direct connection
is not working, how are you trying to make that connection, and
what if any error message do you see?
--Mike
8:25 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Wednesday 13 June 2018 01:13:57 Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 13 2018 01:00:03 William Morder wrote:
It is http or https that doesn't work with a direct connect. And email is smtp
and pop3.
I don't get any error messages. I get nothing at all. The browser just doesn't
load over a direct connection. If you mean what do I get when I run a command
in a console, I am just now going through commands. So far, ifconfig and
iwconfig turn up nothing new; it looks normal enough.
Bill
but I cannot use any direct connections
You appear to be using a direct SMTP connection, and probably also
a direct POP3 or IMAP connection. What kind of direct connection
is not working, how are you trying to make that connection, and
what if any error message do you see?
--Mike
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8:30 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Wed June 13 2018 01:25:00 William Morder wrote:
I don't get any error messages. I get nothing at
all. The browser just
doesn't load over a direct connection. If you mean what do I get when I run
a command in a console, I am just now going through commands. So far,
ifconfig and iwconfig turn up nothing new; it looks normal enough.
You had earlier stated that "network-aware programs cannot recognize
wlan0". What appears in ifconfig and iwconfig?
--Mike
8:41 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Wednesday 13 June 2018 01:30:33 Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 13 2018 01:25:00 William Morder wrote:
I've already tried these; I used these commands all the time, especially
iwconfig.
ifconfig -a
eth0: flags=4099<UP,BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
ether 00:1d:60:94:77:a4 txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet)
RX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B)
RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0
TX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B)
TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0
lo: flags=73<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING> mtu 65536
inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 255.0.0.0
loop txqueuelen 0 (Local Loopback)
RX packets 552644 bytes 2130121850 (1.9 GiB)
RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0
TX packets 552644 bytes 2130121850 (1.9 GiB)
TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0
wlan0: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
inet 10.246.154.167 netmask 255.255.252.0 broadcast 10.246.155.255
inet6 fe80::202:72ff:fe88:d1fd prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x20<link>
ether 00:02:72:88:d1:fd txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet)
RX packets 2776170 bytes 4048306737 (3.7 GiB)
RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0
TX packets 1449588 bytes 197469814 (188.3 MiB)
TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0
Note that I disable ipv6, so I'm curious if it has somehow got re-enabled.
iwconfig
wlan0 IEEE 802.11bg ESSID:"WHERE I LIVE"
Mode:Managed Frequency:2.412 GHz Access Point: AC:86:74:A3:66:C2
Bit Rate=54 Mb/s Tx-Power=30 dBm
Retry short limit:7 RTS thr:off Fragment thr:off
Encryption key:off
Power Management:off
Link Quality=58/100 Signal level=58/100
Rx invalid nwid:0 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0
Tx excessive retries:161 Invalid misc:41051 Missed beacon:0
lo no wireless extensions.
eth0 no wireless extensions.
But when I look at network configuration in other places (for instance, in
Trinity Control Center), no network connections at all are supposed to be
enabled.
Bill
I don't get any error messages. I get nothing
at all. The browser just
doesn't load over a direct connection. If you mean what do I get when I
run a command in a console, I am just now going through commands. So far,
ifconfig and iwconfig turn up nothing new; it looks normal enough.
You had earlier stated that "network-aware programs cannot recognize
wlan0". What appears in ifconfig and iwconfig?
--Mike
8:52 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Wed June 13 2018 01:41:34 William Morder wrote:
But when I look at network configuration in other
places (for instance, in
Trinity Control Center), no network connections at all are supposed to be
enabled.
Hi Bill,
I would ask you please to make your posts here as precise as possible,
such that other people have enough information to perform the same steps
as you have performed and to compare their results with yours.
Are you saying that Trinity Control Center / Peripherals / Information /
/ Network Interfaces shows no interfaces, not even lo?
What please is your "uptime", "cat /proc/version", "lsof
/sbin/udevd",
and "ps ax | grep dbus"?
--Mike
17 Jun
17 Jun
12:08 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Wednesday 13 June 2018 01:52:16 Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 13 2018 01:41:34 William Morder wrote:
Sorry to take so long to respond. I tried to take a screenshot to show you
what I meant, then my system crashed and I could not boot up again. When I
tried to reinstall my system, I kept having problems, so I finally migrated
over to Devuan Jessie/Beowulf (I believe it's called). Now my system is back
to normal again, only better (I hope).
Brief answer: You are correct, when I looked in
Trinity Control Center / Peripherals / Information / Network Interfaces
I saw nothing at all there, not even lo. The same is true when I looked in
Trinity Control Center / Internet & Network / Network Settings
It was the same, no matter if I was user or root.
I think the problem was just that I was tired of installing and reinstalling,
and futzing round with trying to get my system working, when I already had
a "finely tuned system" (to quote somebody else here); so maybe I skipped
some steps in my haste. When I sent that last post to the mailing list, my
system was unstable, and about to crash. I was only upgrading to Debian
Jessie then on to Devuan Ascii, because I read that security.debian.org
servers will no longer support Jessie.
Now that I am running Devuan Jessie/Beowulf (?), I don't know if that is still
true (that as of today, 17th of June, security patches for Jessie will not be
supported). At least Devuan seems to run smoother than Debian. I believe that
hereafter I will confine my learning experiments to my laptop, and save my
desktop for actual work.
Bill
But when I look at network configuration in other
places (for instance,
in Trinity Control Center), no network connections at all are supposed to
be enabled.
Hi Bill,
I would ask you please to make your posts here as precise as possible,
such that other people have enough information to perform the same steps
as you have performed and to compare their results with yours.
Are you saying that Trinity Control Center / Peripherals / Information /
/ Network Interfaces shows no interfaces, not even lo?
What please is your "uptime", "cat /proc/version", "lsof
/sbin/udevd",
and "ps ax | grep dbus"?
--Mike
13 Jun
13 Jun
8:17 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On 06/13/2018 12:05 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue June 12 2018 20:31:27 William Morder wrote:
I just configure /interfaces to hot plug and configure wicd accordingly,
with Devuan it's easy.
Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan Jessie - KDE 4.14.2 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda5
Registered Linux User #380263
Now my network managers and other network-aware
programs cannot recognize
wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the shared network in
my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even bother suggesting
that I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to plug in *to*: it's wifi
or nothing.
Did I miss seeing this question on the Devuan list?
What sayeth "ipconfig", "ip link", "iwconfig", "dpkg
-l | grep udev",
"dpkg -l | grep dbus", "dpkg -l | grep network-manager",
"dpkg -l | grep wpa", "ps ax | head -2", and "cat
/etc/network/interfaces"?
FWIW my wlan0 is running fine in Ascii + TDE with openvpn and quagga,
although we don't use network manager.
8:28 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] a perfectly good system shot to hell
On Wednesday 13 June 2018 01:17:43 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
On 06/13/2018 12:05 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
I already tried to configure interfaces to hot plug, but it reverts to
defaults, which only list lo, not even eth0, and not wlan0 at all. And wicd
is okay, but downloading those packages seems to be a bit tricky. I keep
downloading the same stuff, over and over, including wicd and associated
packages.
Bill
On Tue June 12 2018 20:31:27 William Morder
wrote:
I just configure /interfaces to hot plug and configure wicd accordingly,
with Devuan it's easy.
Cheers, Now my network managers and other network-aware
programs cannot
recognize wlan0. (I use a wifi antenna to connect my desktop to the
shared network in my building, which has been fairly stable.) Don't even
bother suggesting that I try eth0, as there is nothing here for me to
plug in *to*: it's wifi or nothing.
Did I miss seeing this question on the Devuan list?
What sayeth "ipconfig", "ip link", "iwconfig", "dpkg
-l | grep udev",
"dpkg -l | grep dbus", "dpkg -l | grep network-manager",
"dpkg -l | grep wpa", "ps ax | head -2", and "cat
/etc/network/interfaces"?
FWIW my wlan0 is running fine in Ascii + TDE with openvpn and quagga,
although we don't use network manager.
20 Jun
20 Jun
2:23 p.m.
New subject: network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
Okay, so new thread, and nothing about coffee, chocolate, mythical beasts,
religious theories, or the current price of tea in China.
I recently migrated from Debian Jessie to the Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
version. My problem is, now I cannot turn off my network, nor control the
connection at all. I was using the network-manager-tde package, which has
always worked just fine for me. I've tried all the other network managers,
and don't like how they behave. In particular, I want to set my network so
that it never connects automatically, and will only connect manually.
Also, I would like to be able to switch to another network if I so choose
(such as, whenever I clone this system to use on my laptop, and take it to
work remotely, like when doing research at the library). I've tried using the
iwconfig commands
iwconfig wlan0 txpower on
iwconfig wlan0 txpower off
but these currently do nothing. When I do manage to disconnect, then I cannot
reconnect at all, not even after reboot, and am left with no alternative but
to reinstall my entire system.
This does not change, not even when I reboot, not even when I uninstall (or
purge) and reinstall the packages. I've gone through my Linux books, tried
searching online, and thus far nobody seems to have my problem.
Also, I need to be able to use macchanger; because I get weird situations
where I can browse the web but not check email (almost as though I seem to be
using two or more different connections at once); or I can check email (like
now), but not browse the web. With macchanger, if I had those problems, I
could always disconnect, change my local IP, then reconnect, and suddenly
everything was fine again. The same goes for my proxy usage: I have many more
connection issues when I do not use a proxy.
One thing I need to do is to disable IPv6. I did some research, and found a
reliable way to do this, and my connection immediately improved. Now,
however, the same method doesn't seem to work, so I believe it may be that
this is part of the problem. (I don't mind the idea of using IPv6, it's just
that I don't know it well enough yet, and cannot find a firewall that can
adequately deal with it according to my wishes. I want to be able to see my
connections in real time, as in Firestarter. A cli firewall that does this,
sort of like top, would be ideal.) I also don't mind at all using
command-line to control the network, but I like to be able to view the
networks within range; this is the only reason that I use a network manager.
I've tried pretty much all of the managers: TDEnetworkmanager,
Knetworkmanager, wpa_supplicant, Kwifimanager, and of course wicd and its
variants. My problem with wicd is that it wants root permissions, then it
won't allow me to use it; the only recourse is to enable it to run at startup
(by checking all the boxes in sysv-rc-conf), so that I bypass the problem of
privileges.
The network manager applet, too, says that I am not authorized to disconnect
or connect. This was not a problem before I migrated to Devuan; on the other
hand, most of my other problems (mostly minor bugs) seem to have disappeared.
For all practical purposes, I cannot use a proxy, nor am I able to do two
things at once online. All this was working fine in Debian Jessie, but not
since I've gone to Devuan.
Observations and suggestions are welcome. Please feel free to trim down my
post to specific points.
If I disappear from the list again for a few days, you'll know why.
Bill
4:14 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On 06/20/2018 07:23 AM, William Morder wrote:
I recently migrated from Debian Jessie to the Devuan
Jessie-Beowulf merged
version. My problem is, now I cannot turn off my network, nor control the
connection at all. I was using the network-manager-tde package, which has
always worked just fine for me. I've tried all the other network managers,
and don't like how they behave. In particular, I want to set my network so
that it never connects automatically, and will only connect manually.
Observations and suggestions are welcome. Please feel
free to trim down my
post to specific points.
Devuan Jessie was a good idea, but everything above Devuan Jessie is not
for a stable system and you don't need network manager it's counter
productive, all you need is wicd.
If all you're doing is testing, well have fun, it's all a learning
thing. I'm just trying to help you the best I can.
Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan Jessie - TDE Trinity R14.0.4 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda2
Registered Linux User #380263
5:23 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On Wed June 20 2018 07:23:07 William Morder wrote:
I recently migrated from Debian Jessie to the Devuan
Jessie-Beowulf merged
version. My problem is, now I cannot turn off my network, nor control the
connection at all. I was using the network-manager-tde package, which has
always worked just fine for me. I've tried all the other network managers,
and don't like how they behave. In particular, I want to set my network so
that it never connects automatically, and will only connect manually.
Devuan Jessie works well but is based on Debian Jessie which is moving
into LTS.
Devuan Ascii works well and is based on Debian Stretch and is well
supported.
Devuan Beowulf is in development based on Debian Buster in development.
I don't know what you mean by "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version". I
would not recommend Jessie as it is moving to LTS. I would not recommend
Beowulf at this time except to bleeding edge users who are comfortable
fixing any problems they might encounter. I would suggest you start with
a working Devuan Ascii before thinking about TDE PSB.
--Mike
6:26 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On 06/20/2018 10:23 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 20 2018 07:23:07 William Morder wrote:
Mike while ASCII has been released, on my systems and I have many, it's
not usable as a stable system. The reason is my external HDMI screen
video and audio go blank/black-out and then it comes back and then it
goes blank again, over and over, not doable while using the system.
This I have produced over and over. Also reported on Debian User list
by me and others. Until fixed ASCII is not usable.
And why do you not recommend Jessie, LTS or not?
Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan Jessie - TDE Trinity R14.0.4 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda2
Registered Linux User #380263
I recently migrated from Debian Jessie to the
Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
version. My problem is, now I cannot turn off my network, nor control the
connection at all. I was using the network-manager-tde package, which has
always worked just fine for me. I've tried all the other network managers,
and don't like how they behave. In particular, I want to set my network so
that it never connects automatically, and will only connect manually.
Devuan Jessie works well but is based on Debian Jessie which is moving
into LTS.
Devuan Ascii works well and is based on Debian Stretch and is well
supported.
Devuan Beowulf is in development based on Debian Buster in development.
I don't know what you mean by "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version". I
would not recommend Jessie as it is moving to LTS. I would not recommend
Beowulf at this time except to bleeding edge users who are comfortable
fixing any problems they might encounter. I would suggest you start with
a working Devuan Ascii before thinking about TDE PSB.
--Mike
6:42 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On Wed June 20 2018 11:26:13 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
Mike while ASCII has been released, on my systems and
I have many, it's
not usable as a stable system. The reason is my external HDMI screen
video and audio go blank/black-out and then it comes back and then it
goes blank again, over and over, not doable while using the system.
This I have produced over and over. Also reported on Debian User list
by me and others. Until fixed ASCII is not usable.
And why do you not recommend Jessie, LTS or not?
Jessie is usable but LTS means Long Term Support means less security
support.
That said, if Ascii does not work for you then I would recommend Devuan
Jessie at least in the short term. You need to get a solid base that
works for you and then upgrade by simple stages.
Can you give me a Debian bug number for the HDMI problem for reference?
--Mike
7:04 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On 06/20/2018 11:42 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 20 2018 11:26:13 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
Do you mean like if I do a Jessie base install and then upgrade to ASCII
and then install my desktop or something else? Just so you know Trinity
for Jessie will not install on ASCII/Stretch, I wish it would.
Mike while ASCII has been released, on my systems
and I have many, it's
not usable as a stable system. The reason is my external HDMI screen
video and audio go blank/black-out and then it comes back and then it
goes blank again, over and over, not doable while using the system.
This I have produced over and over. Also reported on Debian User list
by me and others. Until fixed ASCII is not usable.
And why do you not recommend Jessie, LTS or not?
Jessie is usable but LTS means Long Term Support means less security
support.
That said, if Ascii does not work for you then I would recommend Devuan
Jessie at least in the short term. You need to get a solid base that
works for you and then upgrade by simple stages. Can you give me a Debian bug number for the HDMI
problem for reference?
--Mike
In more than 20 years I've never filed a bug report, but there have been
Dev's who have shown a interest and have been able to reproduce the
problems I have found and have filed bug reports, so I don't know if
there has been a bug report filed or not.
Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan Jessie - TDE Trinity R14.0.4 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda2
Registered Linux User #380263
7:27 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On Wed June 20 2018 12:04:46 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
Please search Debian bug reports for your Debian HDMI bug. If there's no
report on your problem please file one. If there's a TDE bug please do
the same with TDE bug reports ... but thus far I don't see any TDE aspect
to this and I don't understand why you're posting complaints to a TDE list
instead of filing bugs to the Debian bug database.
--Mike
On 06/20/2018 11:42 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
Trinity Stable for Jessie works well with Jessie.
Trinity PSB for Ascii works well with Ascii.
Please make your posts as precise as possible. I still don't know what you
mean when you say you migrated to the "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version".
Jessie is usable but LTS means Long Term Support
means less security
support.
That said, if Ascii does not work for you then I would recommend Devuan
Jessie at least in the short term. You need to get a solid base that
works for you and then upgrade by simple stages.
Do you mean like if I do a Jessie base install and then upgrade to ASCII
and then install my desktop or something else? Just so you know Trinity
for Jessie will not install on ASCII/Stretch, I wish it would. Can you give
me a Debian bug number for the HDMI problem for reference?
In more than 20 years I've never filed a bug report, but there have been
Dev's who have shown a interest and have been able to reproduce the
problems I have found and have filed bug reports, so I don't know if
there has been a bug report filed or not.
8:08 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On 06/20/2018 12:27 PM, Mike Bird wrote:
Please search Debian bug reports for your Debian HDMI bug. If there's no
report on your problem please file one.
Why should I start now.
On Wed June 20 2018 12:04:46 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
To bad it don't work with ASCII.
On 06/20/2018 11:42 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
Trinity Stable for Jessie works well with Jessie. Jessie is usable but LTS means Long Term Support
means less security
support.
That said, if Ascii does not work for you then I would recommend Devuan
Jessie at least in the short term. You need to get a solid base that
works for you and then upgrade by simple stages.
Do you mean like if I do a Jessie base install and then upgrade to ASCII
and then install my desktop or something else? Just so you know Trinity
for Jessie will not install on ASCII/Stretch, I wish it would. Trinity PSB for Ascii works well with Ascii.
Please make your posts as precise as possible. I still don't know what you
mean when you say you migrated to the "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged version".
Bill said that not me.
Can you give me a Debian bug number for the HDMI
problem for reference?
In more than 20 years I've never filed a bug report, but there have been
Dev's who have shown a interest and have been able to reproduce the
problems I have found and have filed bug reports, so I don't know if
there has been a bug report filed or not. If there's a TDE bug please do
the same with TDE bug reports ... but thus far I don't see any TDE aspect
to this and I don't understand why you're posting complaints to a TDE list
instead of filing bugs to the Debian bug database.
I'm not using Debian, I'm using Devuan. Also I was talking to Bill and
then you jumped in, so I explained the problem to you and why I don't
recommend Bill upgrading from Jessie. I'm pretty sure what's going on
is a security problem and part of that systemd crap that has not been
rooted out yet. Besides I like using Jessie and hate to upgrade, but I
will test most anything and give a report *if I feel like it*. Also I'm
not much of a joiner. :)
I'm sure the problem will be fixed in time it just takes a couple of
years. In the meantime Dev's will be using Jessie and will not notice
the problem. If you're in Yosemite I worked there for about 10
yrs(early 80's to the early 90's), just thought I'd let you know.
Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan Jessie - TDE Trinity R14.0.4 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda2
Registered Linux User #380263
8:39 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On Wed June 20 2018 13:08:15 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
If you just complain it wastes developer time and is very inefficient.
Please search and file bug reports and thus provide focus and reduce
duplication and facilitate tracking, discussion, fixing, and fix
verification.
On 06/20/2018 12:27 PM, Mike Bird wrote:
I apologize for my mistake.
I still don't know what Bill means by "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
version".
Please make your posts as precise as possible. I
still don't know what
you mean when you say you migrated to the "Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
version".
Bill said that not me. Please search
Debian bug reports for your Debian HDMI bug. If there's no
report on your problem please file one.
Why should I start now. I'm not using Debian, I'm using Devuan.
Devuan is roughly 99.9% Debian and has roughly two orders of magnitude
more developers. Again, to avoid inefficient duplication, reports of
bugs in the Debian portion should be filed in the Debian bug database.
I'm sure the problem will be fixed in time it just
takes a couple of
years. In the meantime Dev's will be using Jessie and will not notice
the problem.
Relatively few people will be using Jessie henceforth due to immediately
reduced security support and slowly increasing obsolescence.
If you're in Yosemite I worked there for about 10
yrs(early 80's to
the early 90's), just thought I'd let you know.
I was the first ISP in the county - before the telco.
--Mike
8:13 p.m.
New subject: LTS has less security
Hi Mike, people and others.
LTS has less security support in what way. In general because there are less
improvements compared to the none lts?
Just to be clear.
Thanks
Kate
8:53 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] LTS has less security
On Wed June 20 2018 13:13:16 Kate Draven wrote:
LTS has less security support in what way. In general
because there are
less improvements compared to the none lts?
Hi Kate,
A few packages lose all support with LTS. The majority in my experience
tend to get somewhat less security support than Stable and OldStable.
OTOH I've seen several cases where a DLA arrived before the equivalent
DSA.
--Mike
9:14 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] LTS has less security
On Wednesday 20 June 2018, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed June 20 2018 13:13:16 Kate Draven wrote:
So what would
your recommendation be. I tend to avoid LTS kernels because I'd
rather chance it with newer STS kernels.
Thanks for letting me pick your brainZZZZ!
Zombie Kate
LTS has less security support in what way. In
general because there are
less improvements compared to the none lts?
Hi Kate,
A few packages lose all support with LTS. The majority in my experience
tend to get somewhat less security support than Stable and OldStable.
OTOH I've seen several cases where a DLA arrived before the equivalent
DSA.
--Mike
---------------------------------------------------------------------
11:28 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] LTS has less security
On Wed June 20 2018 14:14:18 Kate Draven wrote:
So what would your recommendation be. I tend to avoid
LTS kernels because
I'd rather chance it with newer STS kernels.
Hi Kate,
I don't know anything about your needs and preferences.
I'm using Devuan Ascii with TDE PSB. I also have several Ascii test boxes
with and without TDE. Our live servers are currently Devuan Jessie but I
will soon migrate them to Devuan Ascii.
Because of the TDE PSB change volume I'm delaying upgrading workstations
and laptops from Devuan Jessie and TDE Stable to Ascii until TDE's Ascii
support becomes Stable later this summer.
--Mike
9:16 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] LTS has less security
On 06/20/2018 01:13 PM, Kate Draven wrote:
Hi Mike, people and others.
LTS has less security support in what way. In general because there are less
improvements compared to the none lts?
Just to be clear.
Thanks
Kate
No worry Kate, when something gets broken in stable, old stable and
old-old stable it will get fixed, corporations are paying money for
support and us lone users make out like bandits. :)
Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan Jessie - TDE Trinity R14.0.4 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda2
Registered Linux User #380263
8:07 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] network problems in Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
On Wednesday 20 June 2018, William Morder wrote:
Okay, so new thread, and nothing about coffee,
chocolate, mythical beasts,
religious theories, or the current price of tea in China.
I recently migrated from Debian Jessie to the Devuan Jessie-Beowulf merged
version. My problem is, now I cannot turn off my network, nor control the
connection at all. I was using the network-manager-tde package, which has
always worked just fine for me. I've tried all the other network managers,
and don't like how they behave. In particular, I want to set my network so
that it never connects automatically, and will only connect manually.
Also, I would like to be able to switch to another network if I so choose
(such as, whenever I clone this system to use on my laptop, and take it to
work remotely, like when doing research at the library). I've tried using
the iwconfig commands
iwconfig wlan0 txpower on
iwconfig wlan0 txpower off
but these currently do nothing. When I do manage to disconnect, then I
cannot reconnect at all, not even after reboot, and am left with no
alternative but to reinstall my entire system.
This does not change, not even when I reboot, not even when I uninstall (or
purge) and reinstall the packages. I've gone through my Linux books, tried
searching online, and thus far nobody seems to have my problem.
Also, I need to be able to use macchanger; because I get weird situations
where I can browse the web but not check email (almost as though I seem to
be using two or more different connections at once); or I can check email
(like now), but not browse the web. With macchanger, if I had those
problems, I could always disconnect, change my local IP, then reconnect,
and suddenly everything was fine again. The same goes for my proxy usage: I
have many more connection issues when I do not use a proxy.
One thing I need to do is to disable IPv6. I did some research, and found a
reliable way to do this, and my connection immediately improved. Now,
however, the same method doesn't seem to work, so I believe it may be that
this is part of the problem. (I don't mind the idea of using IPv6, it's
just that I don't know it well enough yet, and cannot find a firewall that
can adequately deal with it according to my wishes. I want to be able to
see my connections in real time, as in Firestarter. A cli firewall that
does this, sort of like top, would be ideal.) I also don't mind at all
using
command-line to control the network, but I like to be able to view the
networks within range; this is the only reason that I use a network
manager. I've tried pretty much all of the managers: TDEnetworkmanager,
Knetworkmanager, wpa_supplicant, Kwifimanager, and of course wicd and its
variants. My problem with wicd is that it wants root permissions, then it
won't allow me to use it; the only recourse is to enable it to run at
startup (by checking all the boxes in sysv-rc-conf), so that I bypass the
problem of privileges.
The network manager applet, too, says that I am not authorized to
disconnect or connect. This was not a problem before I migrated to Devuan;
on the other hand, most of my other problems (mostly minor bugs) seem to
have disappeared. For all practical purposes, I cannot use a proxy, nor am
I able to do two things at once online. All this was working fine in Debian
Jessie, but not since I've gone to Devuan.
Observations and suggestions are welcome. Please feel free to trim down my
post to specific points.
If I disappear from the list again for a few days, you'll know why.
Bill
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you
checked things like;
firmware, add or removed it.
is there something called dkms or the like (no time to look now).
Those packages prevented my eth0 from working.
Also make sure networkmanager service is running.
All I can think of at the moment.
I'll keep thinking (despite the pain),
Kate
22 Jun
22 Jun
4:17 p.m.
New subject: system colors & permission problems
I don't know if these issues are really connected; I only know that they seem
to occur together. Feel free to separate the two issues if that is more
accurate.
Issue #1
I noticed that my system colors are not applied to some applications. In
particular, the Firefox/Iceweasel and Seamonkey browsers. Sometimes when I
start up, these take on my KDE4 Plasma color settings (even when KDE4 is not
installed); sometimes (maybe one-third to one-half of my installations),
everything in the GUI is white, sort of like in Gnome desktops that I've
seen. (Again, Gnome is not installed, though I do use some standalone
applications.) I can make PaleMoon take on my TDE color scheme settings, and
when I uncheck the button that says "apply to non TDE applications", etc.,
it, too, turns all white like these other apps; however, PaleMoon never takes
on the color scheme from the KDE4 Plasma desktop. And then, at other times,
after I install I get my TDE settings. (Maybe one out of ten installations, I
will have Seamonkey and Firefox/Iceweasel use my TDE color scheme settings.)
Then again, sometimes they will use my KDE4 settings. Both are available in
my TDE desktop, but only KDE4 settings are available in that desktop.
TDE
Trinity Control Center/Colors
x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4
System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options
x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color settings,
just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate that my pretty
desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because a white screen
triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at night in a dark
room. I impose dark screen settings on my default browsers and other
applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a practical reason:
whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me that I have opened
that application as root, so that I am sure to be careful I don't really mess
up or delete stuff.
It occurred to me to try to purge the offending applications, then to try to
reinstall them from within the KDE4 desktop environment, and to do the same
within TDE, but this made no difference. Thus far, my only options are either
to live with the lack of color, or to reinstall my system yet again, and hope
for the best.
Issue #2
This may or may not be related; it could be a permissions problem. I now find
that some of my external hard drives cannot be mounted or used, because I can
only access them as root. Even if I wanted to use them as root, it means that
I cannot access music files with my media player, for example. Again, this
has happened before, though not often, usually after a fresh installation. In
the past, it seems the only cure is to reinstall everything. However, since
I've not got this Devuan Jessie system working pretty well, I don't want to
mess up a good thing, especially if there is an easy fix.
I've already tried changing permissions, and that sort of thing. I am guessing
that there might be some kind of config files buried somewhere. I've
searched, but thus far I can find nothing.
Bill
Devuan Jessie 8.8.x
TDE Trinity 14.0.4
9:30 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] system colors & permission problems
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:17:34 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
I don't know if these issues are really connected;
I only know that they seem
to occur together. Feel free to separate the two issues if that is more
accurate.
Issue #1
I noticed that my system colors are not applied to some applications. In
particular, the Firefox/Iceweasel and Seamonkey browsers. Sometimes when I
start up, these take on my KDE4 Plasma color settings (even when KDE4 is not
installed); sometimes (maybe one-third to one-half of my installations),
everything in the GUI is white, sort of like in Gnome desktops that I've
seen. (Again, Gnome is not installed, though I do use some standalone
applications.) I can make PaleMoon take on my TDE color scheme settings, and
when I uncheck the button that says "apply to non TDE applications", etc.,
it, too, turns all white like these other apps; however, PaleMoon never takes
on the color scheme from the KDE4 Plasma desktop. And then, at other times,
after I install I get my TDE settings. (Maybe one out of ten installations, I
will have Seamonkey and Firefox/Iceweasel use my TDE color scheme settings.)
Then again, sometimes they will use my KDE4 settings. Both are available in
my TDE desktop, but only KDE4 settings are available in that desktop.
Sounds like you're hitting a familiar problem with Linux GUI applications:
they're all built with different widget sets, and attempts to transfer the colour
schemes for different sets around are fraught.
Currently, there are no less than three versions of QT and two of GTK in
common use, and I find the only way to get them to behave themselves is
to configure them all separately. Browsers in the Firefox family use GTK2
or GTK3, depending on which browser and which version.
Unfortunately, I never did find a nice GUI configurator for writing system
GTK configs without a GTK-based desktop installed. QT3 is configured
through TDE, QT4 through KDE4 or the included Trolltech settings widget,
and qt5ct works adequately for QT5.
TDE
Trinity Control Center/Colors
x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4
System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options
x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color settings,
just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate that my pretty
desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because a white screen
triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at night in a dark
room. I impose dark screen settings on my default browsers and other
applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a practical reason:
whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me that I have opened
that application as root, so that I am sure to be careful I don't really mess
up or delete stuff.
Yeah, sounds about right--I've been setting up my desktops with white text
on black/blue for more than twenty years for similar reasons.
Try unchecking those two boxes you mention first. Then create a file .gtkrc-2.0
in your user's home directory and put the following in it:
gtk-color-scheme = "bg_color: #000044\nfg_color: #fff\nbase_color: #000\ntext_color:
#fff\nselected_bg_color: #0ff\nselected_fg_color: #000\ntooltip_bg_color:
#0ff\ntooltip_fg_color: #000"
If that causes an abrupt colour change in your browser chrome, it should be
easy enough to work it into a more standard colour scheme by adjusting the
hex. If not, we may have a little more work to do (my file is actually a lot more
extensive and defines a variation on the standard Industrial style, because that
was the easiest way to get usable scrollbars with such dark colours).
Styling GTK3 is not that easy, unfortunately--it took me just under 400 lines
of CSS to get something I could live with. I can hand my file over to you to
play with if it turns out you need it (the colour information is exposed at the
top, so fairly easy to change).
It occurred to me to try to purge the offending
applications, then to try to
reinstall them from within the KDE4 desktop environment, and to do the same
within TDE, but this made no difference. Thus far, my only options are either
to live with the lack of color, or to reinstall my system yet again, and hope
for the best.
Issue #2
This may or may not be related; it could be a permissions problem. I now find
that some of my external hard drives cannot be mounted or used, because I can
only access them as root. Even if I wanted to use them as root, it means that
I cannot access music files with my media player, for example. Again, this
has happened before, though not often, usually after a fresh installation. In
the past, it seems the only cure is to reinstall everything. However, since
I've not got this Devuan Jessie system working pretty well, I don't want to
mess up a good thing, especially if there is an easy fix.
I've already tried changing permissions, and that sort of thing. I am guessing
that there might be some kind of config files buried somewhere. I've
searched, but thus far I can find nothing.
My first instinct would be to check /etc/fstab for missing "user" options and
any odd umasks. Also, udev does funky things with permissions sometimes.
Of course, I'm using a different distro without an automounter, so I may be
way off-base.
E. Liddell
11:46 p.m.
New subject: system colors & permission problems
On 2018-06-22 16:30:09 E. Liddell wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:17:34 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
I've used the gnome-tweak-tool for this
(in my case to get rid of the yucky
sans-serif fonts). On the Appearance tab there's an option called Global
Dark Theme. Also, in Firefox, I've installed a theme called Compact Dark,
which helps, too. There are numerous other dark themes for Firefox, and
probably for Chrome and Opera, too.
Leslie
I don't know if these issues are really
connected; I only know that they
seem to occur together. Feel free to separate the two issues if that is
more accurate.
Issue #1
I noticed that my system colors are not applied to some applications. In
particular, the Firefox/Iceweasel and Seamonkey browsers. Sometimes when
I start up, these take on my KDE4 Plasma color settings (even when KDE4
is not installed); sometimes (maybe one-third to one-half of my
installations), everything in the GUI is white, sort of like in Gnome
desktops that I've seen. (Again, Gnome is not installed, though I do use
some standalone applications.) I can make PaleMoon take on my TDE color
scheme settings, and when I uncheck the button that says "apply to non
TDE applications", etc., it, too, turns all white like these other apps;
however, PaleMoon never takes on the color scheme from the KDE4 Plasma
desktop. And then, at other times, after I install I get my TDE settings.
(Maybe one out of ten installations, I will have Seamonkey and
Firefox/Iceweasel use my TDE color scheme settings.) Then again,
sometimes they will use my KDE4 settings. Both are available in my TDE
desktop, but only KDE4 settings are available in that desktop.
Sounds like you're hitting a familiar problem with Linux GUI applications:
they're all built with different widget sets, and attempts to transfer the
colour schemes for different sets around are fraught.
Currently, there are no less than three versions of QT and two of GTK in
common use, and I find the only way to get them to behave themselves is
to configure them all separately. Browsers in the Firefox family use GTK2
or GTK3, depending on which browser and which version.
Unfortunately, I never did find a nice GUI configurator for writing system
GTK configs without a GTK-based desktop installed. QT3 is configured
through TDE, QT4 through KDE4 or the included Trolltech settings widget,
and qt5ct works adequately for QT5. TDE
Trinity Control Center/Colors
x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4
System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options
x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color
settings, just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate
that my pretty desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because
a white screen triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at
night in a dark room. I impose dark screen settings on my default
browsers and other applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a
practical reason: whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me
that I have opened that application as root, so that I am sure to be
careful I don't really mess up or delete stuff.
Yeah, sounds about right--I've been setting up my desktops with white text
on black/blue for more than twenty years for similar reasons.
Try unchecking those two boxes you mention first. Then create a file
.gtkrc-2.0 in your user's home directory and put the following in it:
gtk-color-scheme = "bg_color: #000044\nfg_color: #fff\nbase_color:
#000\ntext_color: #fff\nselected_bg_color: #0ff\nselected_fg_color:
#000\ntooltip_bg_color: #0ff\ntooltip_fg_color: #000"
If that causes an abrupt colour change in your browser chrome, it should be
easy enough to work it into a more standard colour scheme by adjusting the
hex. If not, we may have a little more work to do (my file is actually a
lot more extensive and defines a variation on the standard Industrial
style, because that was the easiest way to get usable scrollbars with such
dark colours).
Styling GTK3 is not that easy, unfortunately--it took me just under 400
lines of CSS to get something I could live with. I can hand my file over
to you to play with if it turns out you need it (the colour information is
exposed at the top, so fairly easy to change).
It occurred to me to try to purge the offending
applications, then to try
to reinstall them from within the KDE4 desktop environment, and to do the
same within TDE, but this made no difference. Thus far, my only options
are either to live with the lack of color, or to reinstall my system yet
again, and hope for the best.
Issue #2
This may or may not be related; it could be a permissions problem. I now
find that some of my external hard drives cannot be mounted or used,
because I can only access them as root. Even if I wanted to use them as
root, it means that I cannot access music files with my media player, for
example. Again, this has happened before, though not often, usually after
a fresh installation. In the past, it seems the only cure is to reinstall
everything. However, since I've not got this Devuan Jessie system working
pretty well, I don't want to mess up a good thing, especially if there is
an easy fix.
I've already tried changing permissions, and that sort of thing. I am
guessing that there might be some kind of config files buried somewhere.
I've searched, but thus far I can find nothing.
My first instinct would be to check /etc/fstab for missing "user" options
and any odd umasks. Also, udev does funky things with permissions
sometimes. Of course, I'm using a different distro without an automounter,
so I may be way off-base.
E. Liddell
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11:50 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] system colors & permission problems
On Friday 22 June 2018 14:30:09 E. Liddell wrote:
Thanks, will try these suggestions. And I would like to play with that config
file of yours that you mentioned. I am pretty good at plagiarizing code.
Bill
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:17:34 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
I already did that. I checked and unchecked them numerous times; checked one
but not the other, restarted after changing them, etc.; but no changes.
I don't know if these issues are really
connected; I only know that they
seem to occur together. Feel free to separate the two issues if that is
more accurate.
Issue #1
I noticed that my system colors are not applied to some applications. In
particular, the Firefox/Iceweasel and Seamonkey browsers. Sometimes when
I start up, these take on my KDE4 Plasma color settings (even when KDE4
is not installed); sometimes (maybe one-third to one-half of my
installations), everything in the GUI is white, sort of like in Gnome
desktops that I've seen. (Again, Gnome is not installed, though I do use
some standalone applications.) I can make PaleMoon take on my TDE color
scheme settings, and when I uncheck the button that says "apply to non
TDE applications", etc., it, too, turns all white like these other apps;
however, PaleMoon never takes on the color scheme from the KDE4 Plasma
desktop. And then, at other times, after I install I get my TDE settings.
(Maybe one out of ten installations, I will have Seamonkey and
Firefox/Iceweasel use my TDE color scheme settings.) Then again,
sometimes they will use my KDE4 settings. Both are available in my TDE
desktop, but only KDE4 settings are available in that desktop.
Sounds like you're hitting a familiar problem with Linux GUI applications:
they're all built with different widget sets, and attempts to transfer the
colour schemes for different sets around are fraught.
Currently, there are no less than three versions of QT and two of GTK in
common use, and I find the only way to get them to behave themselves is
to configure them all separately. Browsers in the Firefox family use GTK2
or GTK3, depending on which browser and which version.
Unfortunately, I never did find a nice GUI configurator for writing system
GTK configs without a GTK-based desktop installed. QT3 is configured
through TDE, QT4 through KDE4 or the included Trolltech settings widget,
and qt5ct works adequately for QT5.
TDE
Trinity Control Center/Colors
x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4
System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options
x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color
settings, just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate
that my pretty desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because
a white screen triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at
night in a dark room. I impose dark screen settings on my default
browsers and other applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a
practical reason: whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me
that I have opened that application as root, so that I am sure to be
careful I don't really mess up or delete stuff.
Yeah, sounds about right--I've been setting up my desktops with white text
on black/blue for more than twenty years for similar reasons.
Try unchecking those two boxes you mention first. Then create a file
.gtkrc-2.0 in your user's home directory and put the following in it:
gtk-color-scheme = "bg_color: #000044\nfg_color: #fff\nbase_color:
#000\ntext_color: #fff\nselected_bg_color: #0ff\nselected_fg_color:
#000\ntooltip_bg_color: #0ff\ntooltip_fg_color: #000"
If that causes an abrupt colour change in your browser chrome, it should be
easy enough to work it into a more standard colour scheme by adjusting the
hex. If not, we may have a little more work to do (my file is actually a
lot more extensive and defines a variation on the standard Industrial
style, because that was the easiest way to get usable scrollbars with such
dark colours).
Styling GTK3 is not that easy, unfortunately--it took me just under 400
lines of CSS to get something I could live with. I can hand my file over
to you to play with if it turns out you need it (the colour information is
exposed at the top, so fairly easy to change).
Yes, please. From what you have given me here, it looks like something I could
use. I could just change it to suit my own needs. And 400 lines doesn't scare
me.
It occurred to me to try to purge the offending
applications, then to try
to reinstall them from within the KDE4 desktop environment, and to do the
same within TDE, but this made no difference. Thus far, my only options
are either to live with the lack of color, or to reinstall my system yet
again, and hope for the best.
Issue #2
This may or may not be related; it could be a permissions problem. I now
find that some of my external hard drives cannot be mounted or used,
because I can only access them as root. Even if I wanted to use them as
root, it means that I cannot access music files with my media player, for
example. Again, this has happened before, though not often, usually after
a fresh installation. In the past, it seems the only cure is to reinstall
everything. However, since I've not [correction, *now*] got this Devuan
Jessie system working pretty well, I don't want to mess up a good thing,
especially if there is an easy fix.
I've already tried changing permissions, and that sort of thing. I am
guessing that there might be some kind of config files buried somewhere.
I've searched, but thus far I can find nothing.
My first instinct would be to check /etc/fstab for missing "user" options
and any odd umasks. Also, udev does funky things with permissions
sometimes. Of course, I'm using a different distro without an automounter,
so I may be way off-base.
E. Liddell
23 Jun
23 Jun
10:46 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] system colors & permission problems
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 16:50:26 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
I already did that. I checked and unchecked them numerous times; checked one
but not the other, restarted after changing them, etc.; but no changes.
What those checkboxes do (or at least, what the TDE one used to do) is
write an additional configuration for GTK widgets that tries to give them similar
settings to your QT widgets. Unchecking them should cause the system to
revert to the normal GTK theming system, which can then be messed with to
produce more reliable results.
Okay, I've attached both my GTK2 and GTK3 style files. I also tossed in a
screenshot showing what Seamonkey looks like when themed with this mess
(the screwed-up tab bar is due to a malfunctioning browser extension, though).
I guarantee it is not white. ;)
.gtkrc-2.0 is a GTK2 style. Pale Moon (as of 27.9.3) and SeaMonkey (as of
2.49.7.0) still use GTK2. Place this file in your user's home directory.
Unfortunately,
it is not neat or tidy and has colour definitions scattered all over the file. It also
needs
the Industrial GTK2 "engine" in order to function properly. For me, Industrial
is located
in the package x11-themes/gtk-engines-2.20.2. I don't know where it may be for
your distro.
gtk.css is a GTK3 style, and you would place it in .config/gtk-3.0/ . It's somewhat
more neatly written, with all the colour definitions at the top. The style is mildly
skeuomorphic if functioning properly (slightly raised borders around buttons, etc.)
I have a separate settings.ini file in that directory, but I don't think it's
relevant.
Oh, and if you have any other files of the form .gtkrc-2.0-x or similar in your home
directory, rename them to get them out of the way.
E. Liddell
On Friday 22 June 2018 14:30:09 E. Liddell wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:17:34 -0700
>
> William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
TDE
Trinity Control Center/Colors
x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4
System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options
x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color
settings, just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate
that my pretty desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because
a white screen triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at
night in a dark room. I impose dark screen settings on my default
browsers and other applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a
practical reason: whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me
that I have opened that application as root, so that I am sure to be
careful I don't really mess up or delete stuff.
Yeah, sounds about right--I've been setting up my desktops with white text
on black/blue for more than twenty years for similar reasons.
Try unchecking those two boxes you mention first. Then create a file
.gtkrc-2.0 in your user's home directory and put the following in it:
gtk-color-scheme = "bg_color: #000044\nfg_color: #fff\nbase_color:
#000\ntext_color: #fff\nselected_bg_color: #0ff\nselected_fg_color:
#000\ntooltip_bg_color: #0ff\ntooltip_fg_color: #000"
If that causes an abrupt colour change in your browser chrome, it should be
easy enough to work it into a more standard colour scheme by adjusting the
hex. If not, we may have a little more work to do (my file is actually a
lot more extensive and defines a variation on the standard Industrial
style, because that was the easiest way to get usable scrollbars with such
dark colours).
Styling GTK3 is not that easy, unfortunately--it took me just under 400
lines of CSS to get something I could live with. I can hand my file over
to you to play with if it turns out you need it (the colour information is
exposed at the top, so fairly easy to change).
Yes, please. From what you have given me here, it looks like something I could
use. I could just change it to suit my own needs. And 400 lines doesn't scare
me. 
11:27 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] system colors & permission problems
On Saturday 23 June 2018 15:46:39 E. Liddell wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 16:50:26 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Okay, I've attached both my GTK2 and GTK3 style files. I also tossed in a
screenshot showing what Seamonkey looks like when themed with this mess
(the screwed-up tab bar is due to a malfunctioning browser extension,
though). I guarantee it is not white. ;)
.gtkrc-2.0 is a GTK2 style. Pale Moon (as of 27.9.3) and SeaMonkey (as of
2.49.7.0) still use GTK2. Place this file in your user's home directory.
Unfortunately, it is not neat or tidy and has colour definitions scattered
all over the file. It also needs the Industrial GTK2 "engine" in order to
function properly. For me, Industrial is located in the package
x11-themes/gtk-engines-2.20.2. I don't know where it may be for your
distro.
gtk.css is a GTK3 style, and you would place it in .config/gtk-3.0/ . It's
somewhat more neatly written, with all the colour definitions at the top.
The style is mildly skeuomorphic if functioning properly (slightly raised
borders around buttons, etc.) I have a separate settings.ini file in that
directory, but I don't think it's relevant.
Oh, and if you have any other files of the form .gtkrc-2.0-x or similar in
your home directory, rename them to get them out of the way.
E. Liddell
Thanks, I do appreciate it. I would hate to do a reinstallation for only some
silly glitches. And messing round with your config files will save me a lot
of time. I appreciate your hard work, and sharing it. You will get your
reward in heaven, if not on earth.
;-)
Bill
On Friday 22 June 2018 14:30:09 E. Liddell
wrote:
What those checkboxes do (or at least, what the TDE one used to do) is
write an additional configuration for GTK widgets that tries to give them
similar settings to your QT widgets. Unchecking them should cause the
system to revert to the normal GTK theming system, which can then be messed
with to produce more reliable results.
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:17:34 -0700
William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> wrote:
I already did that. I checked and unchecked them numerous times; checked
one but not the other, restarted after changing them, etc.; but no
changes. TDE
Trinity Control Center/Colors
x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4
System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options
x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color
settings, just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate
that my pretty desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings
because a white screen triggers a migraine - especially when I am
working late at night in a dark room. I impose dark screen settings
on my default browsers and other applications, too, for this reason.
Also, there is a practical reason: whenever I see a white screen,
this usually reminds me that I have opened that application as root,
so that I am sure to be careful I don't really mess up or delete
stuff.
Yeah, sounds about right--I've been setting up my desktops with white
text on black/blue for more than twenty years for similar reasons.
Try unchecking those two boxes you mention first. Then create a file
.gtkrc-2.0 in your user's home directory and put the following in it:
gtk-color-scheme = "bg_color: #000044\nfg_color: #fff\nbase_color:
#000\ntext_color: #fff\nselected_bg_color: #0ff\nselected_fg_color:
#000\ntooltip_bg_color: #0ff\ntooltip_fg_color: #000"
If that causes an abrupt colour change in your browser chrome, it
should be easy enough to work it into a more standard colour scheme by
adjusting the hex. If not, we may have a little more work to do (my
file is actually a lot more extensive and defines a variation on the
standard Industrial style, because that was the easiest way to get
usable scrollbars with such dark colours).
Styling GTK3 is not that easy, unfortunately--it took me just under 400
lines of CSS to get something I could live with. I can hand my file
over to you to play with if it turns out you need it (the colour
information is exposed at the top, so fairly easy to change).
Yes, please. From what you have given me here, it looks like something I
could use. I could just change it to suit my own needs. And 400 lines
doesn't scare me.
7:11 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] system colors & permission problems
On 06/22/2018 09:17 AM, William Morder wrote:
I don't know if these issues are really connected;
I only know that they seem
to occur together. Feel free to separate the two issues if that is more
accurate.
Issue #1
I noticed that my system colors are not applied to some applications. In
particular, the Firefox/Iceweasel and Seamonkey browsers. Sometimes when I
start up, these take on my KDE4 Plasma color settings (even when KDE4 is not
installed); sometimes (maybe one-third to one-half of my installations),
everything in the GUI is white, sort of like in Gnome desktops that I've
seen. (Again, Gnome is not installed, though I do use some standalone
applications.) I can make PaleMoon take on my TDE color scheme settings, and
when I uncheck the button that says "apply to non TDE applications", etc.,
it, too, turns all white like these other apps; however, PaleMoon never takes
on the color scheme from the KDE4 Plasma desktop. And then, at other times,
after I install I get my TDE settings. (Maybe one out of ten installations, I
will have Seamonkey and Firefox/Iceweasel use my TDE color scheme settings.)
Then again, sometimes they will use my KDE4 settings. Both are available in
my TDE desktop, but only KDE4 settings are available in that desktop.
TDE
Trinity Control Center/Colors
x Apply colors to non-TDE applications
KDE4
System Settings/Application Appearance/Colors/Options
x Apply colors to non-KDE4 applications
I don't so much care if they use the KDE4 settings or the TDE color settings,
just so long as it's not white. This isn't just that I hate that my pretty
desktop is spoiled; I started using these settings because a white screen
triggers a migraine - especially when I am working late at night in a dark
room. I impose dark screen settings on my default browsers and other
applications, too, for this reason. Also, there is a practical reason:
whenever I see a white screen, this usually reminds me that I have opened
that application as root, so that I am sure to be careful I don't really mess
up or delete stuff.
It occurred to me to try to purge the offending applications, then to try to
reinstall them from within the KDE4 desktop environment, and to do the same
within TDE, but this made no difference. Thus far, my only options are either
to live with the lack of color, or to reinstall my system yet again, and hope
for the best.
You're holding kde4 apps? You should get rid of them and install tde
apps. You should get rid of hidden system settings in your home too,
except for mail, browser and collections. And after you remove that
stuff install and run 'upgrade-system', it will run dist-upgrade and
deborphan. You can do a synaptic search for kde and remove them all,
just don't remove the trinity stuff, they are easy to spot. Start out
clean and build a solid system that you will want to use for the next 2
plus years.
Issue #2
This may or may not be related; it could be a permissions problem. I now find
that some of my external hard drives cannot be mounted or used, because I can
only access them as root. Even if I wanted to use them as root, it means that
I cannot access music files with my media player, for example. Again, this
has happened before, though not often, usually after a fresh installation. In
the past, it seems the only cure is to reinstall everything. However, since
I've not got this Devuan Jessie system working pretty well, I don't want to
mess up a good thing, especially if there is an easy fix.
I've already tried changing permissions, and that sort of thing. I am guessing
that there might be some kind of config files buried somewhere. I've
searched, but thus far I can find nothing.
You should be able to solve that by editing fstab, add the drives there
and then use kwikdisk/kdf-trinity and or konqueror-trinity to mount,
need help with fstab, let me know, also you Bill are welcome to send me
private email.
Devuan Jessie 8.8.x
TDE Trinity 14.0.4
Welcome to Devuan Jessie, it's almost as good as Wheezy. ;)
https://i.paste.pics/3AU9S.png
Wednesday I put this Devuan Jessie+Trinity together:
https://i.paste.pics/3AU80.png
--
Jimmy Johnson
Debian Wheezy - KDE 4.8.4 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda10
Registered Linux User #380263
27 Jun
27 Jun
4:53 p.m.
New subject: Brother printer - comments?
Just got a Brother printer-scanner-copier-fax combo, model is MFC-495CW, so if
anybody has comments or recommendations from experience, I am all ears.
Here is my model:
https://support.brother.com/g/b/spec.aspx?c=us&lang=en&prod=mfc495c…
I don't have a lot of money to spend (much less to waste) on printer
cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP
cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them, the ink
dried up! I don't want to go through that again.)
I managed to download the drivers for Debian, the product manual, researched
everything I could think of, but now it comes to spending my last few bucks
(literally) on the second-most expensive substance* known in human history,
so I hesitate before using my debit card.
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
Brother, of course, "strongly recommends" not to use third-party, or
refillable cartridges, etc., but I don't have a warranty, anyway, as I got
this thing used.
Has anybody else tried the third-party replacement cartridges or refillables?
I'll have more questions about set-up, I'm sure, once I get my cartridges.
Everything seems to work fine, except for no ink.
Bill
5:23 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Brother printer - comments?
On 06/27/2018 09:53 AM, William Morder wrote:
I don't have a lot of money to spend (much less to
waste) on printer
cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP
cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them, the ink
dried up! I don't want to go through that again.)
[...]
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
My laser printers print for about $0.02 per page, including paper. What
does the cheapest inkjet cost per page? And what does it cost per page if
the ink dries up before you use it? Toner will still be just fine in 10 or
20 years if you haven't used it yet, whether in or out of the printer.
If you want to save money on printing, get a laser printer.
5:36 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Brother printer - comments?
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 10:23:02 Dan Youngquist wrote:
On 06/27/2018 09:53 AM, William Morder wrote:
When one has literally no money to spend, one must make do with what is
available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that is
not an option.
There are refillable cartridges, and refill bottles. I doubt that they can dry
up. My old HP cartridges dried up because they sat in a storage space for a
couple years. These won't dry up (at least, not so fast), because I will use
them now.
I'm only asking if anybody else has tried these refillables. I don't want
advice that I *ought* to buy a laser printer, when I cannot do so.
Bill
I don't have a lot of money to spend (much
less to waste) on printer
cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP
cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them, the
ink dried up! I don't want to go through that again.)
[...]
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
My laser printers print for about $0.02 per page, including paper. What
does the cheapest inkjet cost per page? And what does it cost per page if
the ink dries up before you use it? Toner will still be just fine in 10 or
20 years if you haven't used it yet, whether in or out of the printer.
If you want to save money on printing, get a laser printer.
5:42 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Brother printer - comments?
Last time I used refillable cartridges was 20 years ago. I stopped because
of all the leaks made a mess of everything. Hopefully they are better now.
On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 1:36 PM, William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com>
wrote:
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 10:23:02 Dan Youngquist wrote:
if
--
John Pisini
Systems Administrator
TFCCS
617-450-3988
Disclaimer for email:
The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to
this message is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may
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binding legal contract, unless expressly stated otherwise in the body of
the email by the sender.
On 06/27/2018 09:53 AM, William Morder wrote:
> I don't have a lot of money to spend (much less to waste) on printer
> cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP
> cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them,
the
ink dried
up! I don't want to go through that again.)
[...]
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
My laser printers print for about $0.02 per page, including paper. What
does the cheapest inkjet cost per page? And what does it cost per page the ink dries up before you use it? Toner will
still be just fine in 10
or
20 years if you haven't used it yet, whether
in or out of the printer.
If you want to save money on printing, get a laser printer.
When one has literally no money to spend, one must make do with what is
available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that
is
not an option.
There are refillable cartridges, and refill bottles. I doubt that they can
dry
up. My old HP cartridges dried up because they sat in a storage space for
a
couple years. These won't dry up (at least, not so fast), because I will
use
them now.
I'm only asking if anybody else has tried these refillables. I don't want
advice that I *ought* to buy a laser printer, when I cannot do so.
Bill
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5:52 p.m.
New subject: Brother printer - comments?
William Morder wrote:
When one has literally no money to spend, one must
make do with what is
available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that
is not an option.
then go to the copy shop, you can print for about 5cent
There are refillable cartridges, and refill bottles. I
doubt that they can
dry up. My old HP cartridges dried up because they sat in a storage space
for a couple years. These won't dry up (at least, not so fast), because I
will use them now.
This is BS. Just compare cartridge price/printer price for ink and you'll
see that in 2 years you spent more on cartridges
I'm only asking if anybody else has tried these
refillables. I don't want
advice that I *ought* to buy a laser printer, when I cannot do so.
Yes, they are complete BS - forget it!
Alternative could be dot matrix printer (it is a bit noisy), higher price,
but low material cost. I bought one in 1996 and it is still working.
I bought HP 5L LJ in 1999 and I threw it away last year - it was not worth
repearing. I bought two cartridges for €70,- each - makes 7€ per year for
the cartridge. Just calculate total cost + material cost per intended
period of use. You'll notice that prices have gone high in the past year,
but most people can not calculate any way.
I now bought a HP 402dn which prints 40 times faster than the 5L and cost
200,-. The cartridge would cost 100,- in 5-10y, so I guess I will have avg.
cost of 30,- per year - this is definitely not much. There are also cheaper
LJ printers, but I like HP and can write it off anyway.
If you don't have money - earn money and buy something good instead a cheap
sh*t that will give you headache - or just leave it.
regards
5:56 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Brother printer - comments?
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 10:52:04 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
The only way that I can earn money (real money) is by writing, which means
that I need to be able to print out.
I hear what you are saying, but I guess we can stop this thread now, because
what people are saying is irrelevant to my situation.
Bill
When one has literally no money to spend, one
must make do with what is
available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that
is not an option.
then go to the copy shop, you can print for about 5cent
There are refillable cartridges, and refill
bottles. I doubt that they
can dry up. My old HP cartridges dried up because they sat in a storage
space for a couple years. These won't dry up (at least, not so fast),
because I will use them now.
This is BS. Just compare cartridge price/printer price for ink and you'll
see that in 2 years you spent more on cartridges
I'm only asking if anybody else has tried
these refillables. I don't want
advice that I *ought* to buy a laser printer, when I cannot do so.
Yes, they are complete BS - forget it!
Alternative could be dot matrix printer (it is a bit noisy), higher price,
but low material cost. I bought one in 1996 and it is still working.
I bought HP 5L LJ in 1999 and I threw it away last year - it was not worth
repearing. I bought two cartridges for €70,- each - makes 7€ per year for
the cartridge. Just calculate total cost + material cost per intended
period of use. You'll notice that prices have gone high in the past year,
but most people can not calculate any way.
I now bought a HP 402dn which prints 40 times faster than the 5L and cost
200,-. The cartridge would cost 100,- in 5-10y, so I guess I will have avg.
cost of 30,- per year - this is definitely not much. There are also cheaper
LJ printers, but I like HP and can write it off anyway.
If you don't have money - earn money and buy something good instead a cheap
sh*t that will give you headache - or just leave it.
regards
28 Jun
28 Jun
12:50 a.m.
New subject: Brother printer - comments?
William Morder wrote:
The only way that I can earn money (real money) is by
writing, which means
that I need to be able to print out.
Honestly I am not sure one earns real money by writing and that printer is
required for this nowdays. Writing, reading degraded so much in the past
20y, fake news and BS swamped the media and the internet ... Meanwhile I
prefer reading books published before 1918.
Where are you located BTW?
regards
2:41 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Re: Brother printer - comments?
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 17:50:12 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
I don't have an exact date as my cut-off date, but it does seem that (as
I've
been told by others) I only read books that are otherwise unknown to living
human readers. Also, I don't know if I will make money directly by these
books, but there are many indirect rewards that come as a result of
publishing, and I am trying to make a book that is unlike anything in its
field (or fields).
Already said this earlier, but I'm in San Francisco, possibly the most
expensive place to live on earth. And I don't work in tech, and am a
generation older than the "typical" or stereotypical residents of this city.
On the bright side, though, there are about 150 book publishers in the Bay
area.
Bill
The only way that I can earn money (real money)
is by writing, which
means that I need to be able to print out.
Honestly I am not sure one earns real money by writing and that printer is
required for this nowdays. Writing, reading degraded so much in the past
20y, fake news and BS swamped the media and the internet ... Meanwhile I
prefer reading books published before 1918.
Where are you located BTW?
regards
27 Jun
27 Jun
5:55 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Brother printer - comments?
On 06/27/2018 10:36 AM, William Morder wrote:
When one has literally no money to spend, one must
make do with what is
available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that is
not an option.
Good point. I've bought more than one good laser printer at garage sales
for $3-$10, and they usually have 1000 pages or so of toner in them. I
haven't bought a new printer in over 20 years. Check your local Craigslist,
or post a wanted ad there, and I bet you can find one for way less than the
$40 you're thinking of spending on ink.
Older HP lasers are very cheap to run, and almost all work very well with Linux.
6:01 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Brother printer - comments?
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 10:55:33 Dan Youngquist wrote:
On 06/27/2018 10:36 AM, William Morder wrote:
That is a useful suggestion, but I must put it off for some future world, not
for the present. I could maybe find one used. I looked for used printers
online, but couldn't find any in that range. However, laser printers are
coming down in price. Maybe not this year, but next year, or the next, I
could think about buying a laser.
For the present, though, I must make do with what I have at hand. I only have
about $9 to spare every month, so I have to make my best guess about what
will get me through the next year or so with the inkjet printer that I
actually have, not one that I don't have and can't afford.
Bill
When one has literally no money to spend, one
must make do with what is
available. I hear what everybody is saying about laser printers, but that
is not an option.
Good point. I've bought more than one good laser printer at garage sales
for $3-$10, and they usually have 1000 pages or so of toner in them. I
haven't bought a new printer in over 20 years. Check your local
Craigslist, or post a wanted ad there, and I bet you can find one for way
less than the $40 you're thinking of spending on ink.
Older HP lasers are very cheap to run, and almost all work very well with
Linux.
28 Jun
28 Jun
10:04 p.m.
New subject: Brother printer - comments?
William Morder wrote:
For the present, though, I must make do with what I
have at hand. I only
have about $9 to spare every month, so I have to make my best guess about
what will get me through the next year or so with the inkjet printer that
I actually have, not one that I don't have and can't afford.
Don't you have some good friend that could print it for you? Each company
can write off the material and the cost for printing, so it costs nothing.
Unfort. I am too far away from you, but I would let you print if you were
here around, unless you print 2000 pages at once.
Option would be also to look for used dot matrix as they are cheep and
reliable. You can print there your drafts, while saving ink for the final
version you would send to the publisher.
regards
10:52 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Brother printer - comments?
On Thursday 28 June 2018 15:04:52 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
This is the thread that will not die!
When I am in the throes of revision or layout, I can print out sometimes 30-50
pp. a day, and even in an average week, 100 pp. is probably about average.
So, no, I don't have a good friend who will do it for free, and paying even 5
cents per page is not feasible.
Even with some other sort of writing that just flows out of me, I need to be
able to see a hard copy for when I revise. My occasional non-fiction pieces
for newspapers or magazines seldom run more than 1000-2000 words, and even
then I like to print out for revision.
These works-in-progress contain, in parts, intricate arguments, and when I
keep trying to revise on a screen, it all turns to a hopeless mush. When I
have a hard copy, I can lay out the pages before me, and better see how to
re-arrange and revise. (Maybe this comes from writing habits which I
developed back in the days before word processors; I still remember when it
was a new thing to be able to use a typewriter.) When I studied computer
technology in school, we spent some weeks learning how to create programs
using IBM punchcards, which we then ran through a conveyor belt, and it
turned on a light bulb. That will give you some idea of what kind of dinosaur
I am. If I could, I would chisel my words into stone, as it would be more
gratifying as a permanent creation.
A dot matrix would be great, if I were only printing out, but I also want to
use the scanner to grab illustrations from various books; books that I cannot
find otherwise in libraries, and which are sometimes difficult to find even
in digital sources.
It could well be that I will live to regret my choice in this matter, but then
I can list it among my bad experiences, or lessons I have yet failed to
learn. Anyway, the choice is made, the order has been sent, so now we can
kill this thread.
Thanks for the offer of using your printer. I will immediately drop
everything, and fly to wherever it is that you live (France?), in order to
save myself pennies per page. (It all adds up!) However, I expect that there
will be a veritable Rabelaisian orgy of food, wine, discussion of old books,
and the noble herb Pantagruelion, as I cannot write without sustenance.
Bill
For the present, though, I must make do with what
I have at hand. I only
have about $9 to spare every month, so I have to make my best guess about
what will get me through the next year or so with the inkjet printer that
I actually have, not one that I don't have and can't afford.
Don't you have some good friend that could print it for you? Each company
can write off the material and the cost for printing, so it costs nothing.
Unfort. I am too far away from you, but I would let you print if you were
here around, unless you print 2000 pages at once.
Option would be also to look for used dot matrix as they are cheep and
reliable. You can print there your drafts, while saving ink for the final
version you would send to the publisher.
regards
9:37 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Brother printer - comments?
late to the conversation..but..I buy my ink cartridges from LD products, about
$7 for HP OfficeJet Pro, and HP 950.
Greg
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 08:53:30 William Morder wrote:
Just got a Brother printer-scanner-copier-fax combo,
model is MFC-495CW, so
if anybody has comments or recommendations from experience, I am all ears.
Here is my model:
https://support.brother.com/g/b/spec.aspx?c=us&lang=en&prod=mfc495c…
I don't have a lot of money to spend (much less to waste) on printer
cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP
cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them, the
ink dried up! I don't want to go through that again.)
I managed to download the drivers for Debian, the product manual,
researched everything I could think of, but now it comes to spending my
last few bucks (literally) on the second-most expensive substance* known in
human history, so I hesitate before using my debit card.
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
Brother, of course, "strongly recommends" not to use third-party, or
refillable cartridges, etc., but I don't have a warranty, anyway, as I got
this thing used.
Has anybody else tried the third-party replacement cartridges or
refillables?
I'll have more questions about set-up, I'm sure, once I get my cartridges.
Everything seems to work fine, except for no ink.
Bill
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9:56 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Brother printer - comments?
On Thursday 28 June 2018 14:37:45 Greg Madden wrote:
late to the conversation..but..I buy my ink cartridges
from LD products,
about $7 for HP OfficeJet Pro, and HP 950.
Greg
Thanks much! It's all grist for the mill.
Bill
On Wednesday 27 June 2018 08:53:30 William Morder wrote:
Just got a Brother printer-scanner-copier-fax
combo, model is MFC-495CW,
so if anybody has comments or recommendations from experience, I am all
ears.
Here is my model:
https://support.brother.com/g/b/spec.aspx?c=us&lang=en&prod=mfc495c…
I don't have a lot of money to spend (much less to waste) on printer
cartridges, for example. (A couple years ago I bought a 12-pack of HP
cartridges for my old HP 825c, but before I could actually use them, the
ink dried up! I don't want to go through that again.)
I managed to download the drivers for Debian, the product manual,
researched everything I could think of, but now it comes to spending my
last few bucks (literally) on the second-most expensive substance* known
in human history, so I hesitate before using my debit card.
[* laser toner refills are more expensive than refills for inkjet]
Brother, of course, "strongly recommends" not to use third-party, or
refillable cartridges, etc., but I don't have a warranty, anyway, as I
got this thing used.
Has anybody else tried the third-party replacement cartridges or
refillables?
I'll have more questions about set-up, I'm sure, once I get my
cartridges. Everything seems to work fine, except for no ink.
Bill
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27 Jul
27 Jul
12:36 p.m.
New subject: aptoncd rejects tde-trinity pkgs
Does anybody know why aptoncd rejects all TDE-Trinity packages? I am running
Devuan Jessie (or sometimes, Debian Jessie ...).
I have no problem with other Debian/Devuan packages; I can even get it to
accept the odd older package from Wheezy). In the past, when I experimented
with trying to burn aptoncd discs, I discovered that I could not burn (for
example) discs for Kubuntu Precise while running Kubuntu Hardy, because the
system interpreted all packages as intended for Hardy. I even changed my apt
sources.list to Precise repositories, thinking I might fool the system, but
this didn't work, either.
So I thought it would be no problem to burn Trinity packages for my current
system, as everything runs on Jessie. I suppose it is not too inconvenient to
install from an external drive using dpkg, but I would prefer to keep my
packages on discs, as it makes installation and reinstallation faster and
more reliable for my situation.
Thanks for any help.
Bill
4:18 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] aptoncd rejects tde-trinity pkgs
Am Freitag 27 Juli 2018 schrieb William Morder:
Does anybody know why aptoncd rejects all TDE-Trinity
packages? I am
running Devuan Jessie (or sometimes, Debian Jessie ...).
What do you mean by "reject"? What error message do you get?
By the way, aptoncd has been removed from Debian, see:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=885946
aptoncd -- RoQA; unmaintained; not in testing for 2.5 years
The Website says "Status: Pre-Alpha" and "This project has no files."
See: https://sourceforge.net/projects/aptoncd/files/
The latest news on http://aptoncd.sourceforge.net/ are from: 2007.03.14
This tool seems to be unmaintained and not developed since many years. It's
probably broken, I think.
Kind regards,
Stefan
10:43 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] aptoncd rejects tde-trinity pkgs
On Friday 27 July 2018 09:18:50 Stefan Krusche wrote:
Am Freitag 27 Juli 2018 schrieb William Morder:
I will run it again and copy the error message.
Does anybody know why aptoncd rejects all
TDE-Trinity packages? I am
running Devuan Jessie (or sometimes, Debian Jessie ...).
What do you mean by "reject"? What error message do you get?
By the way, aptoncd has been removed from Debian, see:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=885946
aptoncd -- RoQA; unmaintained; not in testing for 2.5 years
Huh ... I downloaded it from the Debian Jessie repositories. I will look into
it. I need some kind of solution like it, so that I can install when I don't
have Internet access.
The Website says "Status: Pre-Alpha" and
"This project has no files."
See: https://sourceforge.net/projects/aptoncd/files/
The latest news on http://aptoncd.sourceforge.net/ are from: 2007.03.14
This tool seems to be unmaintained and not developed since many years. It's
probably broken, I think.
Kind regards,
Stefan
Actually, my ideal solution would be to use flash drives as my personal
repositories. (That way, I don't keep wasting DVDs and CDs.) Somehow or
other, I got that trick working with Kubuntu Hardy many years. I just set up
the address of the drive with the prefix "deb" or "deb-src" and it
worked;
but now I can't get it going.
I downloaded the DVD images of Debian packages, but apt will not recognize
them when I try to add them as sources.
Bill
2 Aug
2 Aug
4:21 a.m.
New subject: pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
Has anybody else had this problem? On reboots I started getting an error
message in the startup shell (never getting to the login screen):
"Failed to create secure directory
//.config/pulse
I searched the forums, tried various solutions, and eventually just purged
everything possible that I could find connected to pulse. (I always preferred
ALSA, anyway.) Some Trinity packages seem to depend on pulse or pulse
libraries, though, so I wonder if it's possible to get rid of everything
pulse without breaking my system.
On a side note, I have similar problems with VLC. I cannot actually *use* it,
as it crashes every time. I have made do with smplayer, which is okay, I
guess, but I still miss the old VLC. When I try to uninstall or purge VLC,
however, I find that it would also uninstall practically all my KDE and TDE
packages.
I don't know if the two are related, but if I am not using them, or they cause
problems, then I'd like to get rid of them completely.
All help or observations are welcome.
Bill
4:41 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
On Wed August 1 2018 21:21:32 William Morder wrote:
Has anybody else had this problem? On reboots I
started getting an error
message in the startup shell (never getting to the login screen):
Assuming that you have shadow passwords enabled please post the output
of "grep root /etc/passwd".
If you don't have shadow passwords please either sanitize the above
output before posting or else post "finger root".
Please repeat the above for the user you are trying to run vlc with.
"Failed to create secure directory
//.config/pulse
Odd. Instead of "//" I would have expected a user's home path.
I searched the forums, tried various solutions, and
eventually just purged
everything possible that I could find connected to pulse. (I always
preferred ALSA, anyway.) Some Trinity packages seem to depend on pulse or
pulse libraries, though, so I wonder if it's possible to get rid of
everything pulse without breaking my system.
On a side note, I have similar problems with VLC. I cannot actually *use*
it, as it crashes every time. I have made do with smplayer, which is okay,
I guess, but I still miss the old VLC. When I try to uninstall or purge
VLC, however, I find that it would also uninstall practically all my KDE
and TDE packages.
I don't know if the two are related, but if I am not using them, or they
cause problems, then I'd like to get rid of them completely.
All help or observations are welcome.
Please post the (sanitized if necessary) output of "grep audio /etc/group"
and of "ls -Rl /dev/snd".
You've made a lot of changes to your system that you've mentioned on this
list including removing packages and (IIRC) clobbering file permissions.
This makes it hard to diagnose problems with your configuration.
Please post the output of "dpkg -l | cat" and I'll see if it looks
feasible to get any of my test boxes somewhere near your current load.
--Mike
4:54 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
William Morder composed on 2018-08-01 21:21 (UTC-0700):
I wonder if it's possible to get rid of everything
> pulse without breaking my system.
Not if you want sound from any version of
Firefox less than around 2 years old.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
6:55 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
On Wednesday 01 August 2018 21:54:22 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-08-01 21:21
(UTC-0700):
I don't use sound in any of my browsers. I don't use "live" content, but
rather download it and watch or listen on a media player.
Anyway, my browsers are the newest available in Debian Jessie.
However, it seems like pulse is getting forced on us, like it or not. Or is
this not so?
Bill
I wonder if it's possible to get rid of
everything > pulse without
breaking my system.
Not if you want sound from any version of Firefox less than around 2 years
old.
6:53 p.m.
New subject: pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
William Morder wrote:
However, it seems like pulse is getting forced on us,
like it or not. Or
is this not so?
It happened many moons ago already.
youmust know pulse is session based, so it starts with the session. As Mike
Bird said, the home path of the user is missing for some reason.
You can try creating new user and see if it works there. this will help to
narrow down the problem
regards
5 Aug
5 Aug
6:01 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
On Thursday 02 August 2018 11:53:49 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
Sorry to vanish in mid-thread; a combination of this ongoing problem, which
forces me to reinstall my system every other day, and personal stuff in the
real world.
Anyway ... if this reads like a novel, I plead not guilty by reason of
insanity, or poetic license. I am not a geek, so please bear with me.
I did read the other comments; however, my home folder has remained
essentially the same through several different operating systems, from the
KDE3 desktop with PC Linux in about 2006, through Hardy Heron 8.04 Kubuntu,
various KDE3 hacks of Lucid 10.04 and later, attempts at TDE on Ubuntu from
10.04 onwards, until at last Debian Jessie ran pretty well, except for
systemd, and I had Devuan running great with no problem. This stuff seems to
have come out of nowhere, as I haven't really changed anything in my
configuration, except to adapt as necessary, and I haven't changed anything
in Debian or Devuan. I had it running for three months or so without touching
anything, and now this.... Despite what Mike Bird may believe, I have not
changed any permissions in this stuff since 2006.
Also I hesitate to post all the items Mike requests, as there is such a thing
as too much; however, I may get desperate and submit. Besides, it seems too
much for Mike to try to run everything that I have on my system, as I try out
a lot of different software, then gradually strip it down to what I need and
what works.
1. Having gone into the config folder
/home/<USER>/.config/pulse/
I did find a cookie file with rw permissions only. (I assume that this ought
to be rw-r-r, am I right?) However, this would not be my doing, as I
generally haven't ever used pulseaudio until it was forced on me in Debian;
and, as I said, I haven't really changed anything in my config since for
ever.
Most of my problems with pulse have already disappeared, though, as I purged
everything possible that is connected to pulse. There are only two files
remaining, both libpulse*-type stuff, and they seem to be necessary, as when
I try to remove them, apt wants to uninstall practically everything TDE or
Trinity on my system. Anyway, these lines have disappeared in my startup
shell:
"Failed to create secure directory
//.config/pulse
so pulse does not seem to be the root cause. However, I just checked top, and
even though I have purged everything of pulseaudio, it still runs as a
process!
2. Now the plot thickens. Maybe somebody will recognize these details. I
purged everything to do with pulse, except for two files which appear to be
essential dependencies. Now when I booted up, I got these lines:
(EE) Fatal server error
Could not create lock file in /tmp/.tXO-lock
and
tdm [2692] error: X server died during startup
X server for display :0 can't be started, session disabled
I tried removing the lock file via command-line, and got this;
rm: cannot remove 'XO-lock' Read-only file system
This seems to be caused by some conflict between Debian and Devuan packages. I
tried removing everything systemd, but that caused problems. I installed
Devuan packages, and made init my PID 1. I removed systemd-sysv, but didn't
do a total purge of systemd stuff, and it ran great, "purring like a kitten"
(as I said too quickly), and then this crap.
Bill
P.S. Running Devuan Jessie on i386 Frankenstein hardware.
However, it seems like pulse is getting forced on
us, like it or not. Or
is this not so?
It happened many moons ago already.
youmust know pulse is session based, so it starts with the session. As Mike
Bird said, the home path of the user is missing for some reason.
You can try creating new user and see if it works there. this will help to
narrow down the problem
regards
9:28 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
Hello Bill,
Am Sonntag 05 August 2018 schrieb William Morder:
(EE) Fatal server error
Could not create lock file in /tmp/.tXO-lock
and
tdm [2692] error: X server died during startup
X server for display :0 can't be started, session disabled
I tried removing the lock file via command-line, and got this;
rm: cannot remove 'XO-lock' Read-only file system
I lost track about the original problem, but this error does not seem to have
any relation to pulse. Look at the messages. The X server died because of
read-only mounted file system. This seems to be the root of the actual problem.
I only ever have encountered read-only mounted file systems during boot mostly
because missing file systems or errors of which.
This seems to be caused by some conflict between
Debian and Devuan
packages.
Why would you ever mix Devuan and Debian? Devuan basically *is* Debian exept a
few packages without dependencies to systemd stuff. Devuan explicitly says not
to mix with Debian.
If you want to get rid of systemd choose a straight upgrade path from Debian to
Devuan like described on their website and enjoy.
I tried removing everything systemd, but that caused
problems. I
installed Devuan packages, and made init my PID 1. I removed systemd-sysv,
but didn't do a total purge of systemd stuff, and it ran great, "purring
like a kitten" (as I said too quickly), and then this crap.
See from the outside this is far too vague (for me at least) to guess what you
actually did and if or how you broke something. If you're running Debian there
are ways to use sysvinit as init system, but you shouldn't install Devuan
packages in a Debian, I think. Run either Debian or Devuan. There lies no
advantage in mixing them, I'm quite certain.
HTH,
kind regards,
Stefan
10:23 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
Hi Bill,
As Stefan noted, there's too much being changed and too little information
for us to help you. You probably have a quarter million or more files
on your system - enough files that if they were printed out they would fill
a small library. And you're changing things. And computers are very fussy
eaters. We have no idea what you have on your system so how can we tell
you where it is broken?
For best results start with a clean install and only change what you
understand. Thoroughly test one change before trying another. Keep
good backups so you can back away from mistakes.
On Sat August 4 2018 23:01:10 William Morder wrote:
Sorry to vanish in mid-thread; a combination of this
ongoing problem,
which forces me to reinstall my system every other day
Does the system run correctly after installing? Precisely what changes
to break things? Is your hardware reliable?
my home folder has remained essentially the same
through several
different operating systems
Don't restore your entire home folder - it contains lots of config that's
probably obsolete or incompatible. Restore only specific user files
such as documents, photos, music, etc.
I did find a cookie file with rw permissions only. (I
assume that this
ought to be rw-r-r, am I right?)
Probably not. There's no reason for other users to read your configs.
Could not create lock file in /tmp/.tXO-lock
As Stefan noted, this is where you should start. Check your syslog from
boot to this point to find an explanation of why your root filesystem
was either remounted read-only or was not remounted read-write.
This seems to be caused by some conflict between
Debian and Devuan packages.
This is somewhat unlikely as the two are very compatible and mostly identical.
--Mike
5:01 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
On Sunday 05 August 2018 03:23:13 Mike Bird wrote:
I restore config files, settings, and so on, unless they give me problems. I
understand what you're saying, but if I wanted to start from scratch every
time, and could not modify my system, then I might as well run Windoze.
I will keep an eye on this, as in any case something is causing this issue. If
I can find what is making the root filesystem read-only, that will solve the
problem.
Yes, thanks, I am combing through my syslog files.
I think it's partly because I migrate to init, but cannot entirely get rid of
systemd stuff.
Hi Bill,
As Stefan noted, there's too much being changed and too little information
for us to help you. You probably have a quarter million or more files
on your system - enough files that if they were printed out they would fill
a small library.
Although, yes, I probably have too much installed, I do this because I test a
lot of different software, then strip down to what I want. For example, I try
out all the different media players, but I don't keep them all.
I think maybe you are interpreting my words too literally, though. I backup my
home directory, as well as parts of etc, and certain config files, to another
hard drive. I don't generally overwrite my home folder and start with a fresh
installation, unless I run into obstacles that defeat all my efforts.
And you're changing things. And computers are
very fussy
eaters. We have no idea what you have on your system so how can we tell
you where it is broken?
Not sure what you mean by changing things. As I said, I keep what works and
has been stable; which is why I backup my home folder, then look to copy over
my configuration where it is possible. I don't want to keep reinventing the
wheel.
For best results start with a clean install and only
change what you
understand. Thoroughly test one change before trying another. Keep
good backups so you can back away from mistakes.
On Sat August 4 2018 23:01:10 William Morder wrote:
Everything runs fine until I change to TDE. I install Debian, migrate to
Devuan, purge LibreOffice, then reboot. Then I install TDE and reboot. It is
usually on the second reboot, after I have installed TDE packages, that I see
this error.
Sorry to vanish in mid-thread; a combination of
this ongoing problem,
which forces me to reinstall my system every other day
Does the system run correctly after installing? Precisely what changes
to break things? Is your hardware reliable?
my home folder
has remained essentially the same through several
different operating systems
Don't restore your entire home folder - it contains lots of config that's
probably obsolete or incompatible. Restore only specific user files
such as documents, photos, music, etc. I did find a
cookie file with rw permissions only. (I assume that this
ought to be rw-r-r, am I right?)
Probably not. There's no reason for other users to read your configs.
Could not
create lock file in /tmp/.tXO-lock
As Stefan noted, this is where you should start. Check your syslog from
boot to this point to find an explanation of why your root filesystem
was either remounted read-only or was not remounted read-write.
This seems to
be caused by some conflict between Debian and Devuan
packages.
This is somewhat unlikely as the two are very compatible and mostly
identical.
--Mike
Thanks for your patience, and detailed response.
Bill
7:42 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
On Sun August 5 2018 10:01:21 William Morder wrote:
Everything runs fine until I change to TDE. I install
Debian, migrate to
Devuan, purge LibreOffice, then reboot. Then I install TDE and reboot. It
is usually on the second reboot, after I have installed TDE packages, that
I see this error.
Hi Bill,
FYI although I am testing Devuan Ascii with TDE PSB, my wife's system is
running Devuan Jessie with TDE Stable. Although she has more degrees
than I my wife is not a computer geek. And yet I cannot recall the last
time she encountered a problem with her Devuan Jessie / TDE Stable system.
To produce a working system such as that I install only what is needed
for her. I do not install KDE 4 and then remove it. I do not copy
broken config files into a working home folder. And when migrating from
Debian to Devuan or upgrading from one version to the next I carefully
test the process a half dozen times or more while taking detailed notes
before migrating her system or any other production system.
Although my wife knows her root password she uses it perhaps once every
other year. Reliable production computers are useful. Experimenting
with computers and learning from them is useful in a different way. The
two don't mix. It is not reasonable to make massive changes or install
ten year old config files and then ask us why your system is broken and
THEN decline to tell us the full details of what you did to arrive at
that state.
If you can't find a cheap old laptop to experiment on, please at least
consider trying to set aside space for a production partition separate
from your current test partition. Then carefully build your production
partition ... and don't mess with it!
--Mike
6 Aug
6 Aug
7:13 a.m.
New subject: pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
William Morder wrote:
Although, yes, I probably have too much installed, I
do this because I
test a lot of different software, then strip down to what I want. For
example, I try out all the different media players, but I don't keep them
all.
when you test something you do not do it on your production system. you do
it on a test system. In real life we use many test systems to bring a
software to production. When it is on production - there is one rule: never
touch a running/production system!
So just get a test system and do the testing there. Install and change on
production only what you understand and really need.
Keep a clean image(backup) for the test system is also a good idea, so that
you do not have to install from scratch
regards
2 Aug
2 Aug
8:15 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
Am Donnerstag 02 August 2018 schrieb William Morder:
I searched the forums, tried various solutions, and
eventually just purged
everything possible that I could find connected to pulse. (I always
preferred ALSA, anyway.) Some Trinity packages seem to depend on pulse or
pulse libraries, though, so I wonder if it's possible to get rid of
everything pulse without breaking my system.
On a side note, I have similar problems with VLC. I cannot actually *use*
it, as it crashes every time. I have made do with smplayer, which is okay,
I guess, but I still miss the old VLC. When I try to uninstall or purge
VLC, however, I find that it would also uninstall practically all my KDE
and TDE packages.
I don't think that TDE depends on pulse, at least not the base libraries. I have
not *all* TDE packages installed, but quite a copious install and there is no
pulse (on Devuan ascii).
If you find a pulse program/package you can try to find out why it is installed
with this handy command:
$ aptitude why <package>
Kind regards,
Stefan
11:11 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] pulseaudio conflicts with my TDE
On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 10:15:22 +0200
Stefan Krusche <linux(a)stefan-krusche.de> wrote:
Am Donnerstag 02 August 2018 schrieb William Morder:
KDE3 predated pulseaudio, so I find it unlikely that any Trinity package has
a hard dependency on it. None of the packages I have installed even have
it as an optional dependency, so nothing in tdebase uses it.
In general, if you're using the simple setup of a single set of wired speakers
or headphones, and are content with a single master volume control, you
don't need pulseaudio, whatever your distro's package manager may claim
(if you need media support in Firefox, try installing apulse instead). Other
than that, well, I've encountered one cheap game from Humble Bundle
that wouldn't play nice with my ALSA-only setup.
E. Liddell
I searched the forums, tried various solutions,
and eventually just purged
everything possible that I could find connected to pulse. (I always
preferred ALSA, anyway.) Some Trinity packages seem to depend on pulse or
pulse libraries, though, so I wonder if it's possible to get rid of
everything pulse without breaking my system.
On a side note, I have similar problems with VLC. I cannot actually *use*
it, as it crashes every time. I have made do with smplayer, which is okay,
I guess, but I still miss the old VLC. When I try to uninstall or purge
VLC, however, I find that it would also uninstall practically all my KDE
and TDE packages.
I don't think that TDE depends on pulse, at least not the base libraries. I have
not *all* TDE packages installed, but quite a copious install and there is no
pulse (on Devuan ascii).
5 Aug
5 Aug
6:19 a.m.
New subject: antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried this distro?
https://antixlinux.com/
https://antixlinux.com/about/
https://antixlinux.com/antix-16-3-full-iso-files-available/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/antix-linux/files/Final/antiX-16/
https://antixlinux.com/download/https://ftp.nluug.nl/os/Linux/distr/mxlinux…
It is based on Debian, but without systemd, has a KDE4 desktop, but not a lot
of excess crap. It comes as a live CD, and can function as a rescue disc, as
well; would be nicer with TDE installed, but we can't get everything we want.
Also has a net install version, but this requires Ethernet.
Most of the images fit on a CD, and the base images come without LibreOffice
(for those of us out there who, like me, hate it). In any case, it was
created without systemd from the start. By the way, it is hosted in the MEPIS
repositories, or so I read somewhere.
I intend to give it a try on my next system reinstallation.
Bill
6:43 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
William Morder composed on 2018-08-04 23:19 (UTC-0700):
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried this
distro?
https://antixlinux.com/
https://antixlinux.com/about/
https://antixlinux.com/antix-16-3-full-iso-files-available/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/antix-linux/files/Final/antiX-16/
https://antixlinux.com/download/https://ftp.nluug.nl/os/Linux/distr/mxlinux…
It is based on Debian, but without systemd, has a KDE4
desktop, but not a lot
of excess crap. It comes as a live CD, and can function as a rescue disc, as
well; would be nicer with TDE installed, but we can't get everything we want.
Also has a net install version, but this requires Ethernet.
Most of the images fit on a CD, and the base images
come without LibreOffice
(for those of us out there who, like me, hate it). In any case, it was
created without systemd from the start. By the way, it is hosted in the MEPIS
repositories, or so I read somewhere.
I intend to give it a try on my next system
reinstallation.
I gave it a try back when TDE was part of the AntiX distribution. It was nice
enough except for an incompatibility with my multiboot methodology, which keeps
a single partition with many apps, scripts and more I install outside the
package management system for mounting as /usr/local/. AntiX keeps much of its
differentiation from straight Debian in /usr/local/ in directories of the same
names I use instead of /opt/, so instead of trying to figure out a way to work
around the shared directories problems I simply dropped the idea of using it at all.
--
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
6:55 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
On Saturday 04 August 2018 10:43:59 pm Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-08-04 23:19
(UTC-0700):
I use AntiX in a VM, to sandbox a web browser.
Originally used AntiX (xfce) and MX Linux (icewm) for low resource machines.
Part of a recycle older hardware plan. Not so much these days.
AntiX just works though tried to install TDE, failed, did not try harder.
greg
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried
this distro?
https://antixlinux.com/
https://antixlinux.com/about/
https://antixlinux.com/antix-16-3-full-iso-files-available/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/antix-linux/files/Final/antiX-16/
https://antixlinux.com/download/https://ftp.nluug.nl/os/Linux/distr/mxlin
ux-cd/ANTIX/Final/antiX-17.1/
It is based on Debian, but without systemd, has a KDE4 desktop, but not a
lot of excess crap. It comes as a live CD, and can function as a rescue
disc, as well; would be nicer with TDE installed, but we can't get
everything we want. Also has a net install version, but this requires
Ethernet.
Most of the images fit on a CD, and the base images come without
LibreOffice (for those of us out there who, like me, hate it). In any
case, it was created without systemd from the start. By the way, it is
hosted in the MEPIS repositories, or so I read somewhere.
I intend to give it a try on my next system reinstallation.
I gave it a try back when TDE was part of the AntiX distribution. It was
nice enough except for an incompatibility with my multiboot methodology,
which keeps a single partition with many apps, scripts and more I install
outside the package management system for mounting as /usr/local/. AntiX
keeps much of its differentiation from straight Debian in /usr/local/ in
directories of the same names I use instead of /opt/, so instead of trying
to figure out a way to work around the shared directories problems I simply
dropped the idea of using it at all.
6:59 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
On Saturday 04 August 2018 23:43:59 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2018-08-04 23:19
(UTC-0700):
When I was doing multiboot systems, I gave up on shared directories (like
home). Instead, I just created two completely separate systems; two home
folders, two root folders, etc., and that worked pretty well. When I needed
to copy something from one home folder to another, that was a hassle, but
viable, and better than a broken system. I didn't like the idea of duplicated
(wasted) space, but it was the best solution. I ran like that on a laptop,
while I was learning Debian, with a Hardy Heron as the other system.
My Hardy Kubuntu 8.04 configuration still runs like a top, when I install it
on a machine; except that it is mostly unusable for Internet now, due to lack
of security updates, patches, etc.
Hardy Heron with KDE3 (the only machine I've ever loved) is basically what I
am trying to recreate on TDE. It looks almost identical, but doesn't quite
run as smoothly.
Well, since I am not doing multiboot at the moment, maybe AntiX will work for
me.
*fingers crossed*
Bill
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried
this distro?
https://antixlinux.com/
https://antixlinux.com/about/
https://antixlinux.com/antix-16-3-full-iso-files-available/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/antix-linux/files/Final/antiX-16/
https://antixlinux.com/download/https://ftp.nluug.nl/os/Linux/distr/mxlin
ux-cd/ANTIX/Final/antiX-17.1/
It is based on Debian, but without systemd, has a KDE4 desktop, but not a
lot of excess crap. It comes as a live CD, and can function as a rescue
disc, as well; would be nicer with TDE installed, but we can't get
everything we want. Also has a net install version, but this requires
Ethernet.
Most of the images fit on a CD, and the base images come without
LibreOffice (for those of us out there who, like me, hate it). In any
case, it was created without systemd from the start. By the way, it is
hosted in the MEPIS repositories, or so I read somewhere.
I intend to give it a try on my next system reinstallation.
I gave it a try back when TDE was part of the AntiX distribution. It was
nice enough except for an incompatibility with my multiboot methodology,
which keeps a single partition with many apps, scripts and more I install
outside the package management system for mounting as /usr/local/. AntiX
keeps much of its differentiation from straight Debian in /usr/local/ in
directories of the same names I use instead of /opt/, so instead of trying
to figure out a way to work around the shared directories problems I simply
dropped the idea of using it at all.
2:58 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
On 08/04/2018 11:19 PM, William Morder wrote:
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried this
distro?
https://antixlinux.com/
I've had it on the laptop on which I'm typing for a year or so. It works
fine, and TDE installed with no problems. The only thing I don't like about
it is that it uses wicd for the network manager, which I don't really care
for with wifi. So I've been intending to change it to MX Linux, which also
works fine for me on several machines.
--
PGP key: http://homestead-products.com/pubkey.htm
4:48 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
On Sunday 05 August 2018 07:58:56 Dan Youngquist wrote:
On 08/04/2018 11:19 PM, William Morder wrote:
I already install TDE over Debian Jessie with the KDE desktop, so I figured it
wouldn't be any more difficult than that. And the fact that it runs init and
not systemd is also good, as I think some of my problems are due to having to
migrate from Debian to Devuan. I've never been able to do a successful
installation directly from a Devuan disc, but must install Debian, then
Devuan, then TDE, then uninstall LibreOffice and install OpenOffice, etc. And
cannot do net install here, so I need to use a live disc. If my circumstances
were different, then I would probably take a different approach.
AntiX, too, sounds like their build without systemd is more integrated, so
that I don't need to do a lot of messing. And it is for older machines, which
describes both my desktop and laptop. (My desktop is currently using a laptop
hard drive as sda1, with a minimal home directory, a fairly large root
partition, four internal hard drives, two external hard drives, and numerous
serial devices attached.) So a minimalist distro is probably better for my
needs.
Again, I can work with wicd, but it is not my networkmanager of choice; I'd
much prefer to use tdenetworkmanager, but somehow that is causing me
connection problems, whereas I can force my connection to behave by using a
combination of command-line and wicd. Not how I'd like it to be, perhaps, but
it works, which is better than the alternative.
Thanks for everybody's input. I just wanted to know if it was worth wasting my
time. For the present, Devuan Jessie seems to behave, but I'll wait and see a
few days more.
This would all be a lot simpler (at least, from a certain point of view) if I
still had the luxury of an entire room dedicated to computers, parts, etc.,
where I had several different machines always running, or being rebuilt
(including a Commodore Amiga 64, and a Mac Classic II), which allowed me more
experimentation. I've never been a real geek; more a self-hacker, out of
necessity. Now I must experiment on the same two machines that I need to use
for work and life. Oh well ... we work with what we have.
Bill
Just wondering if anybody out there has tried
this distro?
https://antixlinux.com/
I've had it on the laptop on which I'm typing for a year or so. It works
fine, and TDE installed with no problems. The only thing I don't like
about it is that it uses wicd for the network manager, which I don't really
care for with wifi. So I've been intending to change it to MX Linux, which
also works fine for me on several machines.
6 Aug
6 Aug
5 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 12:48 PM, William Morder <doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com>
wrote:
On Sunday 05 August 2018 07:58:56 Dan Youngquist wrote:
> On 08/04/2018 11:19 PM, William Morder wrote:
> > Just wondering if anybody out there has tried this distro?
> >
> > https://antixlinux.com/
I'm impressed. I haven't used this for a few years so I downloaded it and
I have it running in VMWare it is impressive they not only use Stretch
sources not Devuan which is a real surprise to me (they are using pinning
to keep systemd off) but a full usable desktop in an 800mb download. I
haven't tried Trinity on it yet but so far it seems to run very well. They
don't have have pulseaudio installed but Firefox has sound I am definitely
going to have to look into that some more. Seems to be using something
called apulse which I am not familiar with may be something they wrote not
sure yet.
6:58 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
https://antixlinux.com/
Good information.
Is the desktop similar to Trinity desktop ?
Thanks,
André
7:07 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
No it defaults to IceWM you can install Trinity if you want. Trinity is a
desktop enviroment where IceWM is a window manager. It uses scripts to call
seperate tools to do what you need.
On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 2:58 PM, <andre_debian(a)numericable.fr> wrote:
https://antixlinux.com/
Good information.
Is the desktop similar to Trinity desktop ?
Thanks,
André
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7 Aug
7 Aug
1:34 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 13:00:27 -0400
"Pisini, John" <pisinij(a)csps.com> wrote:
They
don't have have pulseaudio installed but Firefox has sound I am definitely
going to have to look into that some more. Seems to be using something
called apulse which I am not familiar with may be something they wrote not
sure yet.
If I recall correctly, apulse was originally created as a shim for the desktop
version of Skype.
https://github.com/i-rinat/apulse
E. Liddell
7:15 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
On Tuesday 07 August 2018 03.34:44 E. Liddell wrote:
If I recall correctly, apulse was originally created
as a shim for the
desktop version of Skype.
apulse did not work well on my machine (that - unfortunately - has hdmi that I
don't use but regularely comes back as card number 0...). Replacing with
pulseaudio does the trick (at least for the moment).
I also had the surprise that TDE install did not install tdm... had to do this
myself.
Apart from that, I could copy all my settings from Debian 9 and it seems I can
forget systemd...
Ah, Debian sees my harddisc as /dev/sdb but AntiX as /dev/sda (so I presume it
does not see the ooold zip drive that I am too lazy to remove...)
Anyone know a mixer for pulseaudio that let's you setup 7.1 sound? I have
sound but I can't balance the rear loudspeakers...
Thierry
10:06 p.m.
New subject: antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
Thierry de Coulon wrote:
Anyone know a mixer for pulseaudio that let's you
setup 7.1 sound? I have
sound but I can't balance the rear loudspeakers...
I don't have such a card, but in theory it should be configurable below
pulseaudio
For example the kernel document Documentation/sound/hd-audio/controls.rst
explains which hd audio codec specifix mixer controls can be configured
(driver level)
and btw the mixer for pulse is pavucontrol - needs to be installed extra.
regards
10:11 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
If pavucontrol doesn't work try pnmixer
On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 6:08 PM deloptes <deloptes(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Thierry de Coulon wrote:
Anyone know a mixer for pulseaudio that let's
you setup 7.1 sound? I have
sound but I can't balance the rear loudspeakers...
I don't have such a card, but in theory it should be configurable below
pulseaudio
For example the kernel document Documentation/sound/hd-audio/controls.rst
explains which hd audio codec specifix mixer controls can be configured
(driver level)
and btw the mixer for pulse is pavucontrol - needs to be installed extra.
regards
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8 Aug
8 Aug
7:46 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: antiX - debian-based distro - no systemd
On Wednesday 08 August 2018 00.11:37 John Pisini wrote:
If pavucontrol doesn't work try pnmixer
Does not work. Looking at the description they say pulse is not supported. I
will try pnmixer on the Debian install which uses alsa to take a look.
On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 6:08 PM deloptes
<deloptes(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Thierry de Coulon wrote:
> > Anyone know a mixer for pulseaudio that let's you setup 7.1 sound? I
> > have sound but I can't balance the rear loudspeakers...
>
> I don't have such a card, but in theory it should be configurable below
> pulseaudio
>
> For example the kernel document Documentation/sound/hd-audio/controls.rst
> explains which hd audio codec specifix mixer controls can be configured
> (driver level)
>
> and btw the mixer for pulse is pavucontrol - needs to be installed extra.
pavucontrol works fine but gives no control of the different loudspeakers,
Alsa did, but does not seem to accept to turn hdmi off (which pulse does).
> regards
>
Thanks both,
Thierry
16 Sep
16 Sep
12:41 p.m.
New subject: how to restore/reconfigure lost wireless connection?
Okay, so here's a weird wireless problem. Now and then my wireless connection
totally disappears. Usually this happens right after some unlucky event, such
as a sudden power disruption; and that happens with annoying frequency not
only in my apartment building, but also in much of the city. (In April of
2017, the power went out in about one-third of the city, including where I
live; which event killed my old desktop computer. I swear, San Francisco is
like a third-world country when in comes to a lot of the basic amenities.)
When power is restored, and I boot up, my wireless connection is usually
missing. My trick for temporarily restoring it has been to boot up with a
Debian live disc, which recognizes my wireless connection, then to reboot
into my system, and there it is. But this tends to be a temporary fix, and
after a few more reboots, over maybe a couple weeks or a month, I end up
having to reinstall my system; and this is what I am trying to avoid.
I'm currently running Devuan Jessie, and my Debian live disc wasn't working to
fix the problem, so I tried booting up the Devuan net install CD, ran the
installer up to the point of configuring the network interfaces, then I
booted into rescue mode (in the Devuan net install CD), and tried restarting
networking, some ifup/ifdown commands, various iwconfig commands, but these
didn't seem to do much of anything. When I rebooted, my wireless connection
was back again, and now it seems to be running fine, but I fear that this is
still just a temporary quick fix.
So I'm wondering if there is a way to restore the lost connection without
jumping through all these hoops. A command-line solution would be nice.
I ought to add that I am running a desktop computer, but that I access my
network (shared network in my apartment building) via a CCrane wifi antenna;
which has served me without complaint for about ten years now.
All suggestions or observations are welcome, and thanks for taking the time.
However, please do not recommend that I buy a backup power supply; as indeed
that is on my wish list, but I cannot afford it at present. That would
prevent damage to my computer, but it's just not feasible for me now.
Bill
8 Oct
8 Oct
11:51 p.m.
New subject: how to re-index Kmail
Riddle me this: new/old problem with Kmail.
Ever since I moved to TDE with Debian Jessie, I've had this annoying but minor
glitch. When I start up Kmai, I get some message that I need to re-index
folders, usually just the inbox, or whatever folder I've used last.
Sometimes I see that I have unread emails; these are usually ghosts. (This is
a bug that I experienced with the old KDE3, going back to when Noah built the
Ark. Anyway, so I just click and mark them read, and I'm done with it until
the next time I boot up, when I go through it all again, only with different
emails that I need to change from read to unread. Annoying, like I said, but
minor, and I was never bothered enough to care.
Now when I start up Kmail, I see 39 unread emails, all of which seem to go
back to about the same date, apparently sometime in the past week, all of
them from the TDE mailing list. They don't go away, not even when I try to
mark all the emails in that folder as unread.
Only when I download new emails: then the unread emails disappear, but
whenever I move anything into the folder (from inbox or sent mail folders),
they all reappear once more. And when I start up Kmail again, all
those "unread" ghost emails come back; furthermore, the number keeps growing,
and they all seem to start from the same date - except that when I search the
folder for those emails, there are no unread emails, it's just a number that
appears on the Kmail icon in the lower panel.
Does anybody else have a problem like this? Or, how do I fix it?
Bill
9 Oct
9 Oct
4:56 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] how to re-index Kmail
On Tuesday 09 October 2018 01.51:03 William Morder wrote:
Riddle me this: new/old problem with Kmail.
Ever since I moved to TDE with Debian Jessie, I've had this annoying but
minor glitch. When I start up Kmai, I get some message that I need to
re-index folders, usually just the inbox, or whatever folder I've used
last.
(...)
Does anybody else have a problem like this? Or, how do
I fix it?
Bill
I get this some time, mostly when I migrate the kmail directory to a new
installation, or after a crash. Never enough to be a trouble.
I imagine you've done this allready, but what I do is delete all the files
in .trinity/share/apps/kmail (not the directories, of course) and restart
kmail, which re-indexes everything. I usually get a few unread messages which
I "reread", then it's done.
Thierry
7:12 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] how to re-index Kmail
Am Dienstag, 9. Oktober 2018 schrieb Thierry de Coulon:
On Tuesday 09 October 2018 01.51:03 William Morder
wrote:
On my side this happens when I delete mails from maildir folders that kmail has indexed.
The next time kmail starts it recreates the indices of the affected folders.
Maybe the filepermissions/owner of the maildir folder is inconsistent?
Nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
Riddle me this: new/old problem with Kmail.
Ever since I moved to TDE with Debian Jessie, I've had this annoying but
minor glitch. When I start up Kmai, I get some message that I need to
re-index folders, usually just the inbox, or whatever folder I've used
last.
(...)
Does anybody else have a problem like this? Or,
how do I fix it?
Bill
I get this some time, mostly when I migrate the kmail directory to a new
installation, or after a crash. Never enough to be a trouble.
I imagine you've done this allready, but what I do is delete all the files
in .trinity/share/apps/kmail (not the directories, of course) and restart
kmail, which re-indexes everything. I usually get a few unread messages which
I "reread", then it's done.
31 Oct
31 Oct
10:01 p.m.
New subject: wireless interface not recognized on boot
My network connection has been pretty stable; but after a few days up and
running, I start to notice hints of connection issues. I get knocked offline,
or at any rate cannot connect, but I only notice when a web page won't load
or Kmail gives me an error message. (I don't get a notification that I am now
offline.) I can usually reconnect, though sometimes I notice what seem to be
lingering ghosts of dead connections, with my old IP address(es), even though
I've killed all my previous connections. After I reconnect, I can use email,
surf the web, whatever, but these issues tend to increase, and my connection
seems unstable, though I cannot tell why.
When at last I reboot my system, the startup shell invariably tells me that my
wireless connection (wlan0) is not recognized, although eth0 is okay. I have
managed to get my wireless connection back by booting with a live Debian or
Devuan disc, where my wireless connection is always available. Then I reboot
into my Devuan system, and usually my wireless connection is again recognized
and available; it used to be that this trick always worked, but now it only
works sometimes.
My connection issues also used to get worse over time; then I would reinstall
my system, and everything would be fine once more, and only deteriorate over
several weeks or so. But now I've reinstalled my system a couple times, and
these wireless issues seem to be constant, even on a fresh installation.
A direct connection is not possible; wireless internet service is available to
tenants in my building (although I'm sure that, by now, in my neighborhood,
everybody's dog has cracked our insecure password). And while this is a
desktop computer that I'm using, I get wireless by using a wifi antenna,
which has served me reliably for years.
Another interesting detail: I tried using an old Kubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron live
CD to boot the computer, and it also did not recognize my wireless
connection; so I wonder if this is not a TDE bug, rather than a problem with
the Devuan system. I haven't tried booting into other desktops yet, but I
suppose I could install some other DEs and compare.
I've already tried every command-line solution I could think of:
ifup / ifdown
iwconfig wlan0 txpower on
and so on.
Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to include whatever details might be
significant. Any suggestions for how to resolve these issues (other than by
reinstalling yet again) would be most appreciated.
Bill
4 Nov
4 Nov
11:50 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] wireless interface not recognized on boot
On Wednesday 31 October 2018 05:01:13 pm William Morder wrote:
My connection issues also used to get worse over time;
then I would
reinstall my system, and everything would be fine once more, and only
deteriorate over several weeks or so.
A direct connection is not possible; wireless internet
service is available
to tenants in my building (although I'm sure that, by now, in my
neighborhood, everybody's dog has cracked our insecure password).
Another interesting detail: I tried using an old
Kubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron
live CD to boot the computer, and it also did not recognize my wireless
connection
Hi Bill,
This scenario is possible, but I’m not real sure on how probable...
It’s easy enough to use Aircrack, or similar, to hack about any wireless.
You’d need to actually dig up the exact details, but I believe the way it
works is it piggybacks off an existing MAC/IP/Session (e.g. you) and then
mimics your MAC address from then on. I’d guess the building’s router is
setup to ‘punish’ high-traffic users (which it now feels you are as ‘you’ are
now several people’s worth of connections) by throttling or blacklisting your
MAC address.
If that’s actually the problem, then possibly install Aircrack, Backtrack?, or
whatever and change your MAC address once a day or so. [1]
Hope that helps,
Michael
[1]
The last time I even looked at this was 8+ years ago, as such I profess no
real knowledge on how to do this, these came up in search and seem to concur
with my memories...
https://forum.aircrack-ng.org/index.php?topic=1340.0
https://null-byte.wonderhowto.com/forum/change-mac-address-backtrack-014993…
5 Nov
5 Nov
9:38 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] wireless interface not recognized on boot
On Sunday 04 November 2018 15:50:32 Michael wrote:
On Wednesday 31 October 2018 05:01:13 pm William
Morder wrote:
Yeah, I was wondering if it was something like that. And I am definitely
a "high traffic user", at least sometimes (like when downloading Debian
images, or installing packages, etc. And I use Tor whenever possible. But
most of the time I am actually doing pretty ordinary computer stuff, and not
downloading porn or streaming Netflix, etc. I used to get kicked off the
network every couple hours.
I use the macchanger package to change my mac address pretty much every time I
have problems, so I change it sometimes several times a day, but other times
I might keep the same mac address for several days. It depends on whether I
hve connection issues.
Also it seems that something was changing my settings in
my /etc/network/interfaces files; but I'm not sure yet if this was my fault,
or something else at work. I'm troubleshooting now.
Thanks for your observation. At least I'm on the right track with changing my
mac address.
Bill
My connection issues also used to get worse over
time; then I would
reinstall my system, and everything would be fine once more, and only
deteriorate over several weeks or so.
A direct connection is not possible; wireless internet service is
available to tenants in my building (although I'm sure that, by now, in
my neighborhood, everybody's dog has cracked our insecure password).
Another interesting detail: I tried using an old Kubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron
live CD to boot the computer, and it also did not recognize my wireless
connection
Hi Bill,
This scenario is possible, but I’m not real sure on how probable...
It’s easy enough to use Aircrack, or similar, to hack about any wireless.
You’d need to actually dig up the exact details, but I believe the way it
works is it piggybacks off an existing MAC/IP/Session (e.g. you) and then
mimics your MAC address from then on. I’d guess the building’s router is
setup to ‘punish’ high-traffic users (which it now feels you are as ‘you’
are now several people’s worth of connections) by throttling or
blacklisting your MAC address.
If that’s actually the problem, then possibly install Aircrack, Backtrack?,
or whatever and change your MAC address once a day or so. [1]
Hope that helps,
Michael
[1]
The last time I even looked at this was 8+ years ago, as such I profess no
real knowledge on how to do this, these came up in search and seem to
concur with my memories...
https://forum.aircrack-ng.org/index.php?topic=1340.0
https://null-byte.wonderhowto.com/forum/change-mac-address-backtrack-014993
7/
15 Feb
15 Feb
2:22 a.m.
New subject: chat clients - cannot connect
Don't know if this is a TDE issue or not, but maybe somebody here can tell me
what's going on.
Suddenly all my jabber/xmpp accounts have stopped working. I thought maybe it
was that the servers had gone down, so I went and registered some new
accounts at other servers, and got several accounts registered, but most of
them also won't connect. I did have 2 old accounts that still worked, and 1
new account, but then in the past day two of these accounts have also stopped
working. Now the only one I have that works now is the very first one that I
registered about 15 years ago.
Error messages I get are either:
There was a connection error: Network failure.
-or-
no authentication method available (or something like that)
I've been exchanging emails with one of the techs for one of the servers, and
was asked if I use IPv4 or IPv6. As it happens, I disable IPv6 on this
system, because I cannot find a firewall that does what I want yet (like
firestarter). Do I really have to use IPv6? I hear that they are running out
of addresses, but until now my system has been running pretty well.
I've tried psi, pidgin, etc. (to make sure that it's not an issue with
Kopete), but I still get the same errors. However, it could still be an issue
with Trinity. I've never had problems with certificates and all that, but I
also never gave it much thought.
Any clues about what is the problem?
Bill
P.S. running Devuan Jessie with Trinity R14.0.6
5:13 a.m.
New subject: chat clients - cannot connect
Okay, so the problem seems to have been resolved, and in this case it does
seem to be a TDE problem; or at least, a problem with the kopete-trinity
package.
I cannot torify Kopete, and the available configurations are obsolete. I got
away with not being able to configure within the client by torifying Kopete
over a secure shell. But now that doesn't work.
However, for myself the problem is solved by using psi-plus, which seems to
work great (so far ... fingers crossed), and has the further advantage of
being a cross-platform application, rather that specific to TDE or (for that
other version of Kopete) the KDE4+ versions.
I don't know if this qualifies as something to be investigated by the devs,
but there it is.
Bill
7:04 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] chat clients - cannot connect
On Thursday 14 February 2019 22:56:58 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2019 Thu, 14 Feb 21:13:42 -0800
William Morder scripsit:
Very nice, indeed. I already like it better than Pidgin, Kopete, and pretty
much every other chat client out there, and I've known a lot of them.
Cross-platform, too, with a portable version on SourceForge:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/psiplus/
direct dll
https://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/psiplus/Windows/Personal-Builds/t…
Not that I use Windoze much, but sometimes one gets stuck at a public computer
with only a flash drive for protection (in lieu of a fig leaf).
Bill
psi-plus
Now that project I didn't know of :-)
Nik
5 Apr
5 Apr
8:16 p.m.
New subject: Devuan netinstall with TDE as option?
This is a spin-off from Gene's thread, mentioning the various desktops
available ... before we finally get to install TDE ... so a new thread.
Speaking of which ... I know that there are a few third-party options with the
TDE desktop already installed, but thus far none of them work for me.
There is a Devuan iso out there (ExeGnu, I think, and perhaps another), but I
go through all the steps with them, and then it doesn't boot up. Only Devuan
netinstall really *works* for me.
So I wonder if we can't get a Devuan netinstall disc modified so that it
includes Trinity repositories and TDE as a menu choice when we choose our
desktop? Jessie (as I am still stuck there), Ascii (=Stretch) and maybe
Beowulf (= Buster) would be nice.
(This is a request for Slavek, perhaps, or are there others out there who are
making Trinity Devuan installation discs?)
Bill
8:40 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Devuan netinstall with TDE as option?
On Friday 05 April 2019 03:16:59 pm William Morder wrote:
This is a spin-off from Gene's thread, mentioning
the various desktops
available ... before we finally get to install TDE ... so a new thread.
Speaking of which ... I know that there are a few third-party options with
the TDE desktop already installed, but thus far none of them work for me.
There is a Devuan iso out there (ExeGnu, I think, and perhaps another), but
I go through all the steps with them, and then it doesn't boot up. Only
Devuan netinstall really *works* for me.
So I wonder if we can't get a Devuan netinstall disc modified so that it
includes Trinity repositories and TDE as a menu choice when we choose our
desktop? Jessie (as I am still stuck there), Ascii (=Stretch) and maybe
Beowulf (= Buster) would be nice.
(This is a request for Slavek, perhaps, or are there others out there who
are making Trinity Devuan installation discs?)
Hey Bill,
I did a very successful Devuan 2 / TDE build by installing NO desktop in
Devuan and then booting and using root prompt to install TDE. Worked very
well, granted you need a second box to be able to read the commands from or
have them in files on the install USB.
I believe this is most of the files I used, lets see if they attach…
Do check them against the current TDE wiki, they're possibly stale by now.
Best,
Michael
9:04 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Devuan netinstall with TDE as option?
William Morder wrote:
Speaking of which ... I know that there are a few
third-party options
with the
TDE desktop already installed, but thus far none of them work for me.
I've been very happy with community-pclinuxos64-tde-mini-2018.12.iso
https://pclosusers.com/communityiso/Trinity/
9:53 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Devuan netinstall with TDE as option?
On Friday 05 April 2019 14:04:16 Dave Lers wrote:
William Morder wrote:
Yes, PCLinux was the very first Linux system that I tried, and that's where I
discovered the KDE3 desktop. However, due to stability issues at the time, I
switched to Kubuntu, and eventually to Debian then Devuan.
I really want to stick with the Devuan sysvinit. Everything runs great, as I
said, except for a few issues (addressed in other threads), and of course the
fact that TDE doesn't "come with" as a standard menu choice for desktop.
The reason I bring up this possibility is that it *seems* that a Devuan
netinstall disc would be one of the easier ones to adapt, to make a Trinity
version; but then, of course, I'm not the one creating the disc, and I
definitely don't have time or inclination to roll my own at the moment. (But
more about my extracurricular activities in a soon-to-be-started new
thread ... oh, the suspense!)
regarding Michael's suggestion:
Speaking of which ... I know that there are a few
third-party options
with the
TDE desktop already installed, but thus far none of them work for me.
I've been very happy with community-pclinuxos64-tde-mini-2018.12.iso
https://pclosusers.com/communityiso/Trinity/
>Hey Bill,
>I did a very successful Devuan 2 / TDE build by
installing NO desktop in
>Devuan and then booting and using root prompt to install TDE. Worked very
>well, granted you need a second box to be able to read the commands from or
>have them in files on the install USB.
>
>I believe this is most of the files I used, lets see if they attach…
>
>Do check them against the current TDE wiki, they're possibly stale by now.
>
>Best,
>Michael
>tdedevuan.tar.gz
* I'll definitely check out your packages!
I did try something like this, but installing my TDE system from a root prompt
(I think you mean the shell that is available in the "expert install - no
gui" version?) doesn't go so smoothly for me, as I have a lot of packages;
sort of my own private repository.
And that, by the way, would be my preferred option, if we remain with no
dev-created Trinity Devuan netinstall option. I would like to point my system
to my Devuan and Trinity folders, and install from the packages there using
apt-get, and let it find dependencies, rather than using dpkg, which
necessitates many duplicate packages (the dependencies, etc.) in separate
folders. If I could get my system to recognize an address within my own
system, and use the packages in specified folders, and using apt-get to do
it, that would be perfect.
I seem to recall that long ago I did exactly that: created a sort of private
repository within my own system, or maybe it was on my home network, but for
the life of me, I can't recall how I got it set up, because nothing I've
tried recently has worked.
Bill
10:35 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Devuan netinstall with TDE as option?
On Friday 05 April 2019 04:53:15 pm William Morder wrote:
On Friday 05 April 2019 14:04:16 Dave Lers wrote:
Hi Bill,
Ah, no, not "expert install." A regular install using the Devuan ISO.
I used this one:
/devuan/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/
devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1.iso
Probably overkill, I just wanted something to install the base Devuan with.
The steps I took were:
- Make a Devuan USB install stick and copy those files to it (and my .bashrc,
my ~/bin folder, and a bunch else as I needed propitiatory wifi drivers).
- Connect to your router with an Ethernet cable before booting the Devuan
installer.
In the Devuan install process:
- Select a mirror (this auto adds the correct Package repositories)
- And in the Software Selection only select:
- - Console productivity
- - Standard system utilities
(Uncheck everything else!)
- Finish Devuan install
- Boot
- Install TDE through root command line (all you have at this point).
- Boot
- Presto TDE is the only desktop on the system.
William Morder wrote:
regarding
Michael's suggestion:
>Hey Bill,
>
>I did a very successful Devuan 2 / TDE build by installing NO desktop in
>Devuan and then booting and using root prompt to install TDE. Worked
> very well, granted you need a second box to be able to read the
> commands from or have them in files on the install USB.
>
>I believe this is most of the files I used, lets see if they attach…
>
>Do check them against the current TDE wiki, they're possibly stale by
> now.
>
>Best,
>Michael
>tdedevuan.tar.gz
* I'll definitely check out your packages!
I did try something like this, but installing my TDE system from a root
prompt (I think you mean the shell that is available in the "expert install
- no gui" version?) as I have a lot of
packages; sort of my own private repository.
Stick them on the USB stick? Okay, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by
this.
Best,
Michael
6 Apr
6 Apr
11:12 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Devuan netinstall with TDE as option?
On Friday 05 April 2019 15:35:53 Michael wrote:
On Friday 05 April 2019 04:53:15 pm William Morder
wrote:
I mean, in my sources.list, rather than the usual URL for repositories online,
e.g,
deb http://fi.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main backports backports-sloppy
testing
I would like instead to be able to point apt-get to a system address, e.g.,
deb ????://media/trinity/jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing
deb ????://media/devuan/jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing
but I don't know what to put in place of ???? or http, or even if this will
work. And this is just a folder in a hard drive in my desktop; I haven't yet
networked my computers here, which will make it even more fun.
It can take me hours and hours to download packages when I do a fresh
installation; I really would like to be able to get my system back up and
running in under an hour ... like I used to be able to do when running
Kubuntu Hardy. (Nowadays, a new installation takes a minimum of 5-6 hours,
sometimes a couple days if I miss a step.)
That was about 2004 or 2005; then I discovered aptoncd, which solved the
problem in a different way, and I didn't think about it again until I tried
to create DVDs of Devuan and Trinity packages with aptoncd; only to discover,
alas, that 1) aptoncd has been removed from the repositories, and 2) the
aptoncd package that I have, which still works, will not recognize Trinity
packages, but seems to believe that they belong to an older system or another
distro, so they are rejected.
And this is why I seem to recall that I had set up apt to use a system folder
address as my own personal repository. But this was about 15 years ago, when
I first started running Linux, so I probably followed some paint-by-numbers
guides, and I can't recall all the steps, and also did not save the web page,
or cannot find it.
This, too, is unusual for me, as I save everything that might be useful later,
categorize, organize, etc. If only I could keep my house as orderly as my
computer files.
Sorry if I ramble on, but it's 4 am here, and this boy needs his sleep.
Bill
On Friday 05 April 2019 14:04:16 Dave Lers
wrote:
Hi Bill,
Ah, no, not "expert install." A regular install using the Devuan ISO.
I used this one:
/devuan/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/
devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1.iso
Probably overkill, I just wanted something to install the base Devuan with.
The steps I took were:
- Make a Devuan USB install stick and copy those files to it (and my
.bashrc, my ~/bin folder, and a bunch else as I needed propitiatory wifi
drivers). - Connect to your router with an Ethernet cable before booting
the Devuan installer.
In the Devuan install process:
- Select a mirror (this auto adds the correct Package repositories)
- And in the Software Selection only select:
- - Console productivity
- - Standard system utilities
(Uncheck everything else!)
- Finish Devuan install
- Boot
- Install TDE through root command line (all you have at this point).
- Boot
- Presto TDE is the only desktop on the system.
William Morder wrote:
regarding Michael's suggestion:
>Hey Bill,
>
>I did a very successful Devuan 2 / TDE build by installing NO desktop
> in Devuan and then booting and using root prompt to install TDE.
> Worked very well, granted you need a second box to be able to read
> the commands from or have them in files on the install USB.
>
>I believe this is most of the files I used, lets see if they attach…
>
>Do check them against the current TDE wiki, they're possibly stale by
> now.
>
>Best,
>Michael
>tdedevuan.tar.gz
* I'll definitely check out your packages!
I did try something like this, but installing my TDE system from a root
prompt (I think you mean the shell that is available in the "expert
install - no gui" version?) as I have a lot of
packages; sort of my own private repository.
Stick them on the USB stick? Okay, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by
this.
Best,
Michael
4:45 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Devuan netinstall with TDE as option?
On Saturday 06 April 2019 06:12:36 am William Morder wrote:
On Friday 05 April 2019 15:35:53 Michael wrote:
I didn't search on using a system folder, but as for setting up your own apt
repository that clones an official repository that's pretty easy and has
plentiful guides out there (none of which I've tried). All you need is one
permanent box on your network that runs Apache to be the clone and all your
other boxes can feed off of it.
It might be a bit disk intensive, but Amazon sells 6TB rust disks for $100. *
And now I'm envisioning a home repository made up of a Pi ($35), 6TB Disk
($100), and a 3.5-inches SATA/USB Hard Drive Enclosure (~$15).
Best,
Michael
* Sold?, my link no longer works
https://smile.amazon.com/5700RPM-Cache-6-0Gb-Internal-Desktop/dp/B00UCP11U6
On Friday 05 April 2019 04:53:15 pm William
Morder wrote:
I mean, in my sources.list, rather than the usual URL for repositories
online, e.g,
deb http://fi.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main backports
backports-sloppy testing
I would like instead to be able to point apt-get to a system address, e.g.,
deb ????://media/trinity/jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing
deb ????://media/devuan/jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing
but I don't know what to put in place of ???? or http, or even if this will
work. And this is just a folder in a hard drive in my desktop; I haven't
yet networked my computers here, which will make it even more fun.
It can take me hours and hours to download packages when I do a fresh
installation; I really would like to be able to get my system back up and
running in under an hour ... like I used to be able to do when running
Kubuntu Hardy. (Nowadays, a new installation takes a minimum of 5-6 hours,
sometimes a couple days if I miss a step.)
That was about 2004 or 2005; then I discovered aptoncd, which solved the
problem in a different way, and I didn't think about it again until I tried
to create DVDs of Devuan and Trinity packages with aptoncd; only to
discover, alas, that 1) aptoncd has been removed from the repositories, and
2) the aptoncd package that I have, which still works, will not recognize
Trinity packages, but seems to believe that they belong to an older system
or another distro, so they are rejected.
And this is why I seem to recall that I had set up apt to use a system
folder address as my own personal repository. On Friday 05 April 2019 14:04:16 Dave Lers
wrote:
Hi Bill,
Ah, no, not "expert install." A regular install using the Devuan ISO.
I used this one:
/devuan/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/
devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1.iso
Probably overkill, I just wanted something to install the base Devuan
with.
The steps I took were:
- Make a Devuan USB install stick and copy those files to it (and my
.bashrc, my ~/bin folder, and a bunch else as I needed propitiatory wifi
drivers). - Connect to your router with an Ethernet cable before booting
the Devuan installer.
In the Devuan install process:
- Select a mirror (this auto adds the correct Package repositories)
- And in the Software Selection only select:
- - Console productivity
- - Standard system utilities
(Uncheck everything else!)
- Finish Devuan install
- Boot
- Install TDE through root command line (all you have at this point).
- Boot
- Presto TDE is the only desktop on the system.
William Morder wrote:
regarding Michael's suggestion:
>Hey Bill,
>
>I did a very successful Devuan 2 / TDE build by installing NO
> desktop in Devuan and then booting and using root prompt to install
> TDE. Worked very well, granted you need a second box to be able to
> read the commands from or have them in files on the install USB.
>
>I believe this is most of the files I used, lets see if they attach…
>
>Do check them against the current TDE wiki, they're possibly stale
> by now.
>
>Best,
>Michael
>tdedevuan.tar.gz
* I'll definitely check out your packages!
I did try something like this, but installing my TDE system from a root
prompt (I think you mean the shell that is available in the "expert
install - no gui" version?) as I have a lot of
packages; sort of my own private repository.
Stick them on the USB stick? Okay, I'm not entirely sure what you mean
by this.
Best,
Michael
9:23 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Devuan netinstall with TDE as option?
On Saturday 06 April 2019 09:45:39 Michael wrote:
I didn't search on using a system folder, but as for setting up your own
apt repository that clones an official repository that's pretty easy and
has plentiful guides out there (none of which I've tried). All you need is
one permanent box on your network that runs Apache to be the clone and all
your other boxes can feed off of it.
It might be a bit disk intensive, but Amazon sells 6TB rust disks for $100.
*
And now I'm envisioning a home repository made up of a Pi ($35), 6TB Disk
($100), and a 3.5-inches SATA/USB Hard Drive Enclosure (~$15).
Best,
Michael
* Sold?, my link no longer works
https://smile.amazon.com/5700RPM-Cache-6-0Gb-Internal-Desktop/dp/B00UCP11U6
Apparently so, yes. My condolences. I found an archived version of your page:
https://archive.is/xyxuS
Their prices can change drastically, according to your location and other
factors; so if you can spoof your location, you may find that same price you
mentioned.
As it happens, I need to buy a new hard drive, in order to rearrange my files.
I am working on a big project, and that would be a help. I was hoping to buy
a 3 TB hdd for about $100 or so, but 6 TB would be better; so I will keep
watching for the deals.
More about my newest project in another thread. Look for "radio".
Bill
On Saturday 06 April 2019 06:12:36 am William Morder
wrote:
> On Friday 05 April 2019 15:35:53 Michael wrote:
> > On Friday 05 April 2019 04:53:15 pm William Morder wrote:
> > > On Friday 05 April 2019 14:04:16 Dave Lers wrote:
> > > > William Morder wrote:
> > >
> > > regarding Michael's suggestion:
> > > > >Hey Bill,
> > > > >
> > > > >I did a very successful Devuan 2 / TDE build by installing NO
> > > > > desktop in Devuan and then booting and using root prompt to
> > > > > install TDE. Worked very well, granted you need a second box to
> > > > > be able to read the commands from or have them in files on the
> > > > > install USB.
> > > > >
> > > > >I believe this is most of the files I used, lets see if they
> > > > > attach…
> > > > >
> > > > >Do check them against the current TDE wiki, they're possibly
stale
> > > > > by now.
> > > > >
> > > > >Best,
> > > > >Michael
> > > > >tdedevuan.tar.gz
> > >
> > > * I'll definitely check out your packages!
> > >
> > > I did try something like this, but installing my TDE system from a
> > > root prompt (I think you mean the shell that is available in the
> > > "expert install - no gui" version?)
> >
> > Hi Bill,
> >
> > Ah, no, not "expert install." A regular install using the Devuan
ISO.
The so-called "expert install" could be a misnomer, since I use it, but it's
the only option I've ever used for installations of Debian-type systems.
Also, while the Devuan netinstall discs work great for me, I didn't have so
much luck with the full DVD versions; so I am stuck waiting for packages to
download over several hours.
My issue here is lack of time, only one working computer at present, and a
network still to set up and configure, for whenever I rebuild an old laptop.
A Devuan netinstall CD or full DVD with TDE already included as a menu option
is my Christmas wish, so I will put it on my list now, just in case Santa is
reading the Trinity mailing list. I promise that I've been reasonably
well-behaved; but hey, Santa Claus already knows that I've been good, right?
> >
> > I used this one:
> >
> > /devuan/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/
> > devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1.iso
> >
> > Probably overkill, I just wanted something to install the base Devuan
> > with.
> >
> > The steps I took were:
> >
> > - Make a Devuan USB install stick and copy those files to it (and my
> > .bashrc, my ~/bin folder, and a bunch else as I needed propitiatory
> > wifi drivers). -
So, if I understand you here, you added the iso image to the USB using dd
(with which I am familiar); but added these files to the USB.
This is where I don't quite follow you: Did you modify the iso image that was
copied to the USB, and add these files to it? or did you copy them somewhere
to the USB along side the image that you have put on the USB?
> > Connect to your router with an Ethernet
cable before
> > booting the Devuan installer.
I use an old C.Crane wifi antenna; and have boosted my signal by rigging up an
old aluminum (or aluminium) pie tin to create a not-quite-parabolic shell. (I
have almost doubled my signal strength by doing this.) I have no way to plug
in to Ethernet (although that's what I'd prefer), as we have wireless
Internet only in this building.
> >
> > In the Devuan install process:
> >
> > - Select a mirror (this auto adds the correct Package repositories)
> > - And in the Software Selection only select:
> > - - Console productivity
> > - - Standard system utilities
> > (Uncheck everything else!)
> > - Finish Devuan install
> > - Boot
> >
> > - Install TDE through root command line (all you have at this point).
> > - Boot
> >
> > - Presto TDE is the only desktop on the system.
> >
> > > as I have a lot of
> > > packages; sort of my own private repository.
> >
> > Stick them on the USB stick? Okay, I'm not entirely sure what you mean
> > by this.
> >
I don't want to clone the whole Debian and/or Devuan repositories; I only want
to include the packages that I actually use, which (if I discard older,
obsolete packages) will fit on an 8 gb flash drive. That is one option, yes,
which would be convenient for moving from one computer to another when I am
installing; but I don't really care, just that I want to put it on a
partition somewhere.
Besides, if you look inside a disc of Debian/Devuan packages (not the
installation discs, but rather the discs that contain all the packages from
repositories. (Debian has them; not sure about Devuan, but I assumed yes....)
N.B. My other reference to a USB stick or flash drive is maybe from another
thread; I mentioned installing a complete system, with root, swap & home
partitions, on a 64 gb flash drive, and ran both a laptop and a desktop from
it (not simultaneously). I wanted to have a working mini-computer that I
could put in my pocket, and use it to boot any computer, if compatible;
either my own, or, with permission, somebody else's computer. That way, I am
just borrowing the hardware, but the actual system is totally contained on my
flash drive. It actually worked quite well.
But anyway, that is not what I intend here; it's mentioned in another thread.
I really only want to use a dedicated folder that resides somewhere in my
system; not necessarily a network address, as I am not networked yet. Then I
wanted to point apt-get to that internal system URL (although URL might not
be the right term here for system addresses).
Best,
Michael
I mean, in my sources.list, rather than the usual URL for repositories
online, e.g,
deb http://fi.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main backports
backports-sloppy testing
I would like instead to be able to point apt-get to a system address,
e.g.,
deb ????://media/trinity/jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing
deb ????://media/devuan/jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing
but I don't know what to put in place of ???? or http, or even if this
will work. And this is just a folder in a hard drive in my desktop; I
haven't yet networked my computers here, which will make it even more
fun.
It can take me hours and hours to download packages when I do a fresh
installation; I really would like to be able to get my system back up and
running in under an hour ... like I used to be able to do when running
Kubuntu Hardy. (Nowadays, a new installation takes a minimum of 5-6
hours, sometimes a couple days if I miss a step.)
That was about 2004 or 2005; then I discovered aptoncd, which solved the
problem in a different way, and I didn't think about it again until I
tried to create DVDs of Devuan and Trinity packages with aptoncd; only to
discover, alas, that 1) aptoncd has been removed from the repositories,
and 2) the aptoncd package that I have, which still works, will not
recognize Trinity packages, but seems to believe that they belong to an
older system or another distro, so they are rejected.
And this is why I seem to recall that I had set up apt to use a system
folder address as my own personal repository.
7 Apr
7 Apr
1:43 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Devuan netinstall with TDE as option?
Anno domini 2019 Sat, 6 Apr 04:12:36 -0700
William Morder scripsit:
On Friday 05 April 2019 15:35:53 Michael wrote:
Hi Bill!
This might be a starting point: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Modify/CD - but I
do not know it this helps in changing spirces.list
I personaly prefer to modify the netinst installer image, it's all in the initrd.gz.
Unpack, modify, repack :-)
Nik
On Friday 05 April 2019 04:53:15 pm William
Morder wrote:
I mean, in my sources.list, rather than the usual URL for repositories online,
e.g,
deb http://fi.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main backports backports-sloppy
testing
I would like instead to be able to point apt-get to a system address, e.g.,
deb ????://media/trinity/jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing
deb ????://media/devuan/jessie main backports backports-sloppy testing
but I don't know what to put in place of ???? or http, or even if this will
work. And this is just a folder in a hard drive in my desktop; I haven't yet
networked my computers here, which will make it even more fun.
It can take me hours and hours to download packages when I do a fresh
installation; I really would like to be able to get my system back up and
running in under an hour ... like I used to be able to do when running
Kubuntu Hardy. (Nowadays, a new installation takes a minimum of 5-6 hours,
sometimes a couple days if I miss a step.)
That was about 2004 or 2005; then I discovered aptoncd, which solved the
problem in a different way, and I didn't think about it again until I tried
to create DVDs of Devuan and Trinity packages with aptoncd; only to discover,
alas, that 1) aptoncd has been removed from the repositories, and 2) the
aptoncd package that I have, which still works, will not recognize Trinity
packages, but seems to believe that they belong to an older system or another
distro, so they are rejected.
And this is why I seem to recall that I had set up apt to use a system folder
address as my own personal repository. But this was about 15 years ago, when
I first started running Linux, so I probably followed some paint-by-numbers
guides, and I can't recall all the steps, and also did not save the web page,
or cannot find it.
This, too, is unusual for me, as I save everything that might be useful later,
categorize, organize, etc. If only I could keep my house as orderly as my
computer files.
Sorry if I ramble on, but it's 4 am here, and this boy needs his sleep. On Friday 05 April 2019 14:04:16 Dave Lers
wrote:
Hi Bill,
Ah, no, not "expert install." A regular install using the Devuan ISO.
I used this one:
/devuan/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/
devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1.iso
Probably overkill, I just wanted something to install the base Devuan with.
The steps I took were:
- Make a Devuan USB install stick and copy those files to it (and my
.bashrc, my ~/bin folder, and a bunch else as I needed propitiatory wifi
drivers). - Connect to your router with an Ethernet cable before booting
the Devuan installer.
In the Devuan install process:
- Select a mirror (this auto adds the correct Package repositories)
- And in the Software Selection only select:
- - Console productivity
- - Standard system utilities
(Uncheck everything else!)
- Finish Devuan install
- Boot
- Install TDE through root command line (all you have at this point).
- Boot
- Presto TDE is the only desktop on the system.
William Morder wrote:
regarding Michael's suggestion:
>Hey Bill,
>
>I did a very successful Devuan 2 / TDE build by installing NO desktop
> in Devuan and then booting and using root prompt to install TDE.
> Worked very well, granted you need a second box to be able to read
> the commands from or have them in files on the install USB.
>
>I believe this is most of the files I used, lets see if they attach…
>
>Do check them against the current TDE wiki, they're possibly stale by
> now.
>
>Best,
>Michael
>tdedevuan.tar.gz
* I'll definitely check out your packages!
I did try something like this, but installing my TDE system from a root
prompt (I think you mean the shell that is available in the "expert
install - no gui" version?) as I have a lot of
packages; sort of my own private repository.
Stick them on the USB stick? Okay, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by
this.
Best,
Michael
Bill
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5 Apr
5 Apr
10:40 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Devuan netinstall with TDE as option?
On Fri April 5 2019 14:53:15 William Morder wrote:
I really want to stick with the Devuan sysvinit.
Everything runs great, as
I said, except for a few issues (addressed in other threads), and of course
the fact that TDE doesn't "come with" as a standard menu choice for
desktop.
FWIW, after three years with Devuan we're back to Debian.
The original Stretch support for sysvinit was badly damaged but
nowaways Stretch with backports is working fine on both laptops
and servers, and we believe Buster will be just as good.
Devuan was more than 99.6% Debian with just a few small changes
to a few files. Now that Debian is working with sysvinit again
we prefer to get files direct from the source with timely security
updates.
(YMMV)
--Mike
11:02 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Devuan netinstall with TDE as option?
On Friday 05 April 2019 15:40:50 Mike Bird wrote:
On Fri April 5 2019 14:53:15 William Morder wrote:
If Debian does indeed run with sysvinit and no fussing round trying to
uninstall systemd, etc. (which gave me lots of grief), then I may give this a
try whenever next I need to reinstall ... which might be a while, because,
like I said, it has been running great, or almost great.
I do want to upgrade to Ascii or Buster, at least, so that I get current
security patches. Otherwise I wouldn't bother you guys with my problems.
;-)
Bill
I really want to stick with the Devuan sysvinit.
Everything runs great,
as I said, except for a few issues (addressed in other threads), and of
course the fact that TDE doesn't "come with" as a standard menu choice
for desktop.
FWIW, after three years with Devuan we're back to Debian.
The original Stretch support for sysvinit was badly damaged but
nowaways Stretch with backports is working fine on both laptops
and servers, and we believe Buster will be just as good.
Devuan was more than 99.6% Debian with just a few small changes
to a few files. Now that Debian is working with sysvinit again
we prefer to get files direct from the source with timely security
updates.
(YMMV)
--Mike
6 Apr
6 Apr
9:10 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Devuan netinstall with TDE as option?
Anno domini 2019 Fri, 5 Apr 16:02:22 -0700
William Morder scripsit:
On Friday 05 April 2019 15:40:50 Mike Bird wrote:
[...]
If Debian does indeed run with sysvinit and no fussing round trying to
uninstall systemd, etc. (which gave me lots of grief), then I may give this a
try whenever next I need to reinstall ... which might be a while, because,
like I said, it has been running great, or almost great.
That will probably never happen. Debian is not only to drop sysv support sooner or later,
it will drop all support for anything else than systemd.
I do want to upgrade to Ascii or Buster, at least, so
that I get current
security patches. Otherwise I wouldn't bother you guys with my problems.
I'm running Devuan Beowulf, it's perfeorming verry nicely. Even LinuxCNC works
well :-)
Nik
;-)
Bill
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--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
10:47 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Devuan netinstall with TDE as option?
On Saturday 06 April 2019 02:10:40 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2019 Fri, 5 Apr 16:02:22 -0700
William Morder scripsit:
It didn't occur to me until I read this, but maybe I ought to try
just "leap-frogging" over Ascii/Stretch, and go straight to Beowulf/Buster.
My issues with Kmail and my wireless interface might be specific to
Ascii/Stretch, whereas I was supposing that it is some change that will
affect whatever Debian-type system I try to install.
Usually I go straight through the distros one after another, in the hope that
changes to familiar packages will be gradual.
Bill
On Friday 05 April 2019 15:40:50 Mike Bird
wrote:
[...]
If Debian does indeed run with sysvinit and no fussing round trying to
uninstall systemd, etc. (which gave me lots of grief), then I may give
this a try whenever next I need to reinstall ... which might be a while,
because, like I said, it has been running great, or almost great.
That will probably never happen. Debian is not only to drop sysv support
sooner or later, it will drop all support for anything else than systemd.
I do want to upgrade to Ascii or Buster, at
least, so that I get current
security patches. Otherwise I wouldn't bother you guys with my problems.
I'm running Devuan Beowulf, it's perfeorming verry nicely. Even LinuxCNC
works well :-)
Nik
> ;-)
>
5 Apr
5 Apr
11:33 p.m.
New subject: Debian Stretch w/ sysvinit
On Friday 05 April 2019 05:40:50 pm Mike Bird wrote:
On Fri April 5 2019 14:53:15 William Morder wrote:
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the headsup and Is this the guide you used for Debian Stretch w/
sysvinit?
https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Deb…
If not, would you link us with what you did use?
My MX18's lightdm just blew a fuse (no user can log into any desktop) and
running on a pure Debian is very much desired. *
Thanks,
Michael
* MX Linux is a really nice beast, but even with all the work they've done to
make Nvidia an easy install, MX doesn't seem to play well with Nvidia. Or
maybe Nvidia drivers are just a problem with every distro?
I really want to stick with the Devuan sysvinit.
Everything runs great,
as I said, except for a few issues (addressed in other threads), and of
course the fact that TDE doesn't "come with" as a standard menu choice
for desktop.
FWIW, after three years with Devuan we're back to Debian.
The original Stretch support for sysvinit was badly damaged but
nowaways Stretch with backports is working fine on both laptops
and servers, and we believe Buster will be just as good.
6 Apr
6 Apr
12:13 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Debian Stretch w/ sysvinit
On Fri April 5 2019 16:33:06 Michael wrote:
Thanks for the headsup and Is this the guide you used
for Debian Stretch w/
sysvinit?
https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Deb
ian_Stretch_installation
If not, would you link us with what you did use?
When we install Stretch we actually do a default install without
a GUI and then switch from systemd to sysvinit before doing
anything else. In the link you provided that's just the first set
of "required steps" ... 1, 2, 3, done. In fact I'm not even
sure if "2" is needed. I think the inittab appears on its own
but I could be mistaken as we use some scripts for this and
the scripts might create /etc/inittab.
In order to do everything we wanted we found we had to use
Stretch Backports. For example we didn't want policykit-1
and hplip depends on this in Stretch but it's only a
recommendation in Stretch Backports.
--Mike
9:20 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Debian Stretch w/ sysvinit
Anno domini 2019 Fri, 5 Apr 17:13:33 -0700
Mike Bird scripsit:
On Fri April 5 2019 16:33:06 Michael wrote:
Please try to remove libsystemd ...
Nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
Thanks for the headsup and Is this the guide you
used for Debian Stretch w/
sysvinit?
https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Deb
ian_Stretch_installation
If not, would you link us with what you did use?
When we install Stretch we actually do a default install without
a GUI and then switch from systemd to sysvinit before doing
anything else. In the link you provided that's just the first set
of "required steps" ... 1, 2, 3, done. In fact I'm not even
sure if "2" is needed. I think the inittab appears on its own
but I could be mistaken as we use some scripts for this and
the scripts might create /etc/inittab.
In order to do everything we wanted we found we had to use
Stretch Backports. For example we didn't want policykit-1
and hplip depends on this in Stretch but it's only a
recommendation in Stretch Backports. 
8:41 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Devuan netinstall with TDE as option?
On 05/04/2019 23:40, Mike Bird wrote:
On Fri April 5 2019 14:53:15 William Morder wrote:
So the debian devs and suckered another one :) It won't be long before
they make another unilateral decision ....
--
Mike Howard
I really want to stick with the Devuan sysvinit.
Everything runs great, as
I said, except for a few issues (addressed in other threads), and of course
the fact that TDE doesn't "come with" as a standard menu choice for
desktop.
FWIW, after three years with Devuan we're back to Debian.
9:32 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Devuan netinstall with TDE as option?
On 06/04/2019 09:41, Michael Howard via trinity-users wrote:
On 05/04/2019 23:40, Mike Bird wrote:
That should of course read 'have', not 'and' :)
--
Mike Howard
On Fri April 5 2019 14:53:15 William Morder
wrote:
So the debian devs and suckered another one :) It won't be long before
they make another unilateral decision .... I really want to stick with the Devuan sysvinit.
Everything runs
great, as
I said, except for a few issues (addressed in other threads), and of
course
the fact that TDE doesn't "come with" as a standard menu choice for
desktop.
FWIW, after three years with Devuan we're back to Debian.
10:09 p.m.
New subject: INTERNET RADIO - a bit of shameless self-promotion
Check out my Internet radio station!
KCB-SF
direct streaming links
http://s8.voscast.com:9660
-or-
http://74.50.122.103:9660
I torify the stream using xmms on my desktop computer. For smartphones, I
recommend VLC (which also works well over Tor). I also want to create an
onion link, if possible, because, you know, some people might not want the
Man scrutinizing what music has got them so totally hypnotized. (I am also
looking for users' testimonies about what media players work best on Windoze
and the Rotten Apple, since my listeners are mostly not Linux geeks.)
My evil twin, Dr Mojo Contendo, is the DJ, station manager, technical expert,
janitor, and so on. Please give it a try, if you are so inclined. Our
playlist is VERY BIG, and extremely diverse. If you don't like what you hear,
keep checking back, as we play *almost* any kind of music imaginable. I have
at last got it to the point where I have uploaded enough music to the server
to make the music varied enough to sustain attention, and my audience is
slowly growing.
We are still running on AutoDJ, which is described as "imperfect"; though I
believe that is far too generous a term for how it sort of half-works. I hope
to start live streaming from my own playlists within the next few weeks; but
I need some help.
**********
Well, so, actually, it's not quite just self-promotion; I'm also looking for
some help and suggestions. This is not really specific to TDE; however, I am
interested in using Trinity software if available. Since it probably is too
far off-topic for this list, I will be glad if anybody wants to email me
privately, or if they can recommend resources that are better than what I
have.
I've been studying all these online manuals about live streaming Internet
radio, but as it turns out, there are a gazillion different ways to do it,
and they seem to contradict one another at times. Having read pretty much all
the guides & how2s that are out there, my problem, if anything, is that I am
overwhelmed with too much information.
So, 3 steps, from what I can tell:
1. I *want* is to use ezstream from command-line to do my live streaming,
because then I can just point it to a playlist. Then I only have to edit my
playlist, rather than physically copying or moving files.
2. For live broadcast (which is probably down the road even farther), I was
intending to use darkice or darksnow.
3. For the server itself, I already have icecast.
We have already taken the trouble to license the music for playing on the
radio; so I only really need help with the technical stuff.
Getting them to work together is a bit confusing. Also, I am worried about
streaming at too high a bit rate and incurring charges. They seem to imply
that files must be converted beforehand to the right bit rate; but I never
would convert files to 64 kbps for myself! I only deal in lossless quality
for myself and my own music on my own system. But this is how it works, so I
have to deal with it.
If I stream at a higher bit rate, ezstream can convert to the proper bit rate,
but it stresses out the CPU (or so I read); the way to do it, they say, is to
convert them first. Also, I would like to play an ogg stream, not mp3, but we
need to get a different server first.
Right now we are using Voscast; which I hate for more reasons than even all
the time in the world will permit me to describe. Let's just say, it does
everything that I don't want; and the only thing that it can do is sometimes
to play the music that I specify. In fact, it plays only about 5% (just
guessing) of all the music I've uploaded; and some artists get played over
much, considering I've only uploaded 15 songs from that album; whereas I
uploaded whole catalogues of music by some jazz and soul artists, and they
haven't played ever, not even once.
I believe that maybe Voscast filters uploads (maybe due to all this new stuff
that's going on, with trying to stop piracy, etc.?); but there is no rhyme or
reason, if that's the case. They filter some things but not others, and it
makes no sense, and I can find no common denominator; except, maybe, the
artists or record companies want to push some material, and the other stuff
gets rejected because it doesn't sell. Anyway, it's very annoying; I waste
endless hours uploading music that doesn't get played, and I have no idea
why, or if it's filtered or rejected or suppressed or whatever.
If anybody knows of a better service for streaming music, that would also be a
great help; at present, cost is a factor, and until we get more listeners to
justify spending more money, we seem to be stuck with Voscast. At present, it
costs about $17 a month for 64 kbps, which is the lowest quality stream that
plays in stereo. I would like to bump it up at least to 128 kbps, maybe even
192 or more, as I see other streams out there now that are much higher
quality. But all in good time; that will cost a lot more.
(I say "we" because I have a business partner, who handles the ugly stuff like
paying bills and talking to the Suits; whereas I, the celebrity DJ, just
manage the music and only ever talk to other musicians.)
Thanks for any help or suggestions.
Bill
7 Apr
7 Apr
5:58 p.m.
New subject: INTERNET RADIO - a bit of shameless self-promotion
William Morder wrote:
If anybody knows of a better service for streaming
music, that would also
be a great help; at present, cost is a factor, and until we get more
listeners to justify spending more money, we seem to be stuck with
Voscast. At present, it costs about $17 a month for 64 kbps, which is the
lowest quality stream that plays in stereo. I would like to bump it up at
least to 128 kbps, maybe even 192 or more, as I see other streams out
there now that are much higher quality. But all in good time; that will
cost a lot more.
Hi,
I think it is pretty good quality for my self made PC boxes out of recycled
pc loud speakers, so keep it just the way it is and spend money on
advertisements, that will give you more hits and higher download rates.
And what you have now is working pretty well, so why changing something?
I recall playing with icecast many moons ago. Good stuff, good choice!
Regarding converting I use ffmpeg. You can put a script together to convert
all you have to 64 into a new directory - it makes no sense to burn
CPU/power each time you play something.
thumbs up & regards
8:12 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: INTERNET RADIO - a bit of shameless self-promotion
On Sunday 07 April 2019 10:58:36 deloptes wrote:
William Morder wrote:
I have worked a lot with ffmpeg, so I'll have to figure out how to cobble
together this script. Right now I have not enough space available for a new
directory of converted files.
:-\
If anybody knows of a better service for
streaming music, that would also
be a great help; at present, cost is a factor, and until we get more
listeners to justify spending more money, we seem to be stuck with
Voscast. At present, it costs about $17 a month for 64 kbps, which is the
lowest quality stream that plays in stereo. I would like to bump it up at
least to 128 kbps, maybe even 192 or more, as I see other streams out
there now that are much higher quality. But all in good time; that will
cost a lot more.
Hi,
I think it is pretty good quality for my self made PC boxes out of recycled
pc loud speakers, so keep it just the way it is and spend money on
advertisements, that will give you more hits and higher download rates.
And what you have now is working pretty well, so why changing something?
I recall playing with icecast many moons ago. Good stuff, good choice!
Regarding converting I use ffmpeg. You can put a script together to convert
all you have to 64 into a new directory - it makes no sense to burn
CPU/power each time you play something.
thumbs up & regards
Thanks for your listening and comments.
I am still tied down about some choices, but the money is slowly getting
better, pennies at a time, so when I can buy an external hdd or hdd with
enclosure, I will do some massive rearrangements of my materials, then
dedicate an older WD 1 TB external hdd just to the converted radio files, and
a laptop dedicated just to streaming, and network everything with my desktop.
Then I can relax more, as I don't want to stream live radio from my main
computer that I use for work and life and everything else.
The current playlist is rather heavy on jazz, but only because that's what I
just uploaded and added to the list. At present, only about a third of
unploaded music available on the server (for AutoDJ) have actually been added
to the list; within another day or so, there will be much more, and I hope to
increase the list every week or so for the next few months, so that for
listeners there will be enough variety that they won't get tired after a few
hours (unless they just don't like my choices).
Feel free to share with others, as we rely on word-of-mouth for most
listeners. We are working on a smartphone app based on VLC.
Bill
5 Jul
5 Jul
11:16 p.m.
New subject: ksystraycmd & panel hiding
This isn't a top priority issue, and I can probably live many years more
without resolving it; but it is really annoying. When the panel does its
self-hiding trick, I call down curses upon the heads of the developers and
all their kind, too.
There are actually two issues, maybe three; but I think maybe they are all
related to the panel, thus I put them together here.
1. is trivial, but still annoying. Whenever I start up certain apps, I get a
two icons in the panel; a smaller icon, but also a shadow icon - a larger
reduplication of the original - but I only need the first. I have got in the
habit of just killing the shadow icons by running the command pkill
ksystraycmd, and then it goes away until I run another app.
Somehow or other (back when I was running KDE3), I found a way to suppress the
shadow icons, but now I can't find it in my notes, and nothing online. I went
into TCC, and unclicked boxes in menu items, etc., but it keeps returning.
2. Panel hiding is much more annoying. Quite by accident, when some object on
my desk hits the mouse, my panel suddenly hides, and will not come back. I've
tried changing settings, locking the panel, etc.; it even survives reboots
and shutdowns. I try clicking to restore the panel, and NOTHING HAPPENS, and
continues not to happen, for ever.
3. When I unlock the panel, and move round the icons, it gets totally messed
up. Even if I lock it, the icons keep moving round, and again, this behavior
survives through reboots and shutdowns. When at last I get my icons to
behave, and lock the panel and leave it alone.
For 2 & 3, I have tried killing the panel by running pkill kicker, then
restarting, but this doesn't work so well. When it does work at all, the
panel appears on only one out of my 20 desktops, and again, this sometimes
persists through multiple reboots.
Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.
Bill
6 Jul
6 Jul
4:05 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] ksystraycmd & panel hiding
W A I T ... W A I T ... W A I T ...
Do not ask a question by changing the title to an old question and posting it.
That destroys message threading. This current message was buried at the bottom
of the original thread:
[trinity-users] chat clients - cannot connect - 2/14/19
On 07/05/2019 06:16 PM, William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
There are actually two issues, maybe three; but I
think maybe they are all
related to the panel, thus I put them together here.
1. is trivial, but still annoying. Whenever I start up certain apps, I get a
two icons in the panel; a smaller icon, but also a shadow icon - a larger
reduplication of the original - but I only need the first. I have got in the
habit of just killing the shadow icons by running the command pkill
ksystraycmd, and then it goes away until I run another app.
Somehow or other (back when I was running KDE3), I found a way to suppress the
shadow icons, but now I can't find it in my notes, and nothing online. I went
into TCC, and unclicked boxes in menu items, etc., but it keeps returning.
First, just so I am clear you are not talking about the application name and
icons shown in the taskbar, and then the smaller icons displayed in the pager
are you?
2. Panel hiding is much more annoying. Quite by
accident, when some object on
my desk hits the mouse, my panel suddenly hides, and will not come back. I've
tried changing settings, locking the panel, etc.; it even survives reboots
and shutdowns. I try clicking to restore the panel, and NOTHING HAPPENS, and
continues not to happen, for ever.
You do not have panel hiding selected in TCC->Desktop->Panels (Hiding tab)
[ ] Hide automatically do you?
To restart, use Alt+F2
dcop kicker kicker restart
or
dcop kicker Panel restart
"Panel" is a dcop alias for "kicker" but may not be present in your
system.
You can always open an konsole (or an xterm) and type
dcop kicker (now look at list)
then to see what you can do, just add any of the next items listed, e.g.
dcop kicker kicker (now you should see restart())
3. When I unlock the panel, and move round the icons, it gets totally messed
up. Even if I lock it, the icons keep moving round, and again, this behavior
survives through reboots and shutdowns. When at last I get my icons to
behave, and lock the panel and leave it alone.
Log out of TDE, then switch to another desktop (or use ctrl+alt+f2 to switch
to a text terminal and login) then move or delete kickerrc to force
restoration of the default panel:
mv ~/.tde/share/config/kickerrc ~/.tde/share/config/kickerrc.sav
Now log back into TDE.
For 2 & 3, I have tried killing the panel by
running pkill kicker, then
restarting, but this doesn't work so well. When it does work at all, the
panel appears on only one out of my 20 desktops, and again, this sometimes
persists through multiple reboots.
Of course, TDE settings and configs are persistent and most are stored in
~/.tde/share/config
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
5:30 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] ksystraycmd & panel hiding
On Friday 05 July 2019 21:05:29 David C. Rankin wrote:
W A I T ... W A I T ... W A I T ...
Do not ask a question by changing the title to an old question and posting
it. That destroys message threading. This current message was buried at the
bottom of the original thread:
[trinity-users] chat clients - cannot connect - 2/14/19
Ummm ... I don't know what to say! I created a new email from scratch. It
wasn't a response to a previous post, so maybe that has something to do with
your filters?
I don't know how it could have happened otherwise. It was a new email, new
title, and so far as I can tell, it ought to be a new question; therefore, it
is a completely new thread. I even made up all the words myself, and did not
plagiarize, honest! (I only plagiarize poems, because T.S. Eliot told me that
was how all the best poets write.)
Maybe it has been asked before, but not by myself, and I did not respond to a
previous email to start this thread.
Anyway, 'tis a mystery, at least to me. But to return our muttons ...
On 07/05/2019 06:16 PM, William Morder via
trinity-users wrote:
No, I dislike when the panel (or kicker) hides. If I could disable it
completely, that would be better; but I hedge a little, because then maybe
for some reason, once in a thousand days, I want to make it hide because some
button or something is covered by my lower panel. That is very rare, but on
those very few occasions I've wanted to make it hide, so I can imagine that
it might happen again. Otherwise, I prefer to make the panel fixed right
where it is.
There are actually two issues, maybe three; but I
think maybe they are
all related to the panel, thus I put them together here.
1. is trivial, but still annoying. Whenever I start up certain apps, I
get a two icons in the panel; a smaller icon, but also a shadow icon - a
larger reduplication of the original - but I only need the first. I have
got in the habit of just killing the shadow icons by running the command
pkill ksystraycmd, and then it goes away until I run another app.
Somehow or other (back when I was running KDE3), I found a way to
suppress the shadow icons, but now I can't find it in my notes, and
nothing online. I went into TCC, and unclicked boxes in menu items, etc.,
but it keeps returning.
First, just so I am clear you are not talking about the application name
and icons shown in the taskbar, and then the smaller icons displayed in the
pager are you?
2. Panel hiding is much more annoying. Quite by
accident, when some
object on my desk hits the mouse, my panel suddenly hides, and will not
come back. I've tried changing settings, locking the panel, etc.; it even
survives reboots and shutdowns. I try clicking to restore the panel, and
NOTHING HAPPENS, and continues not to happen, for ever.
You do not have panel hiding selected in TCC->Desktop->Panels (Hiding tab)
[ ] Hide automatically do you?
To restart, use Alt+F2
dcop kicker kicker restart
or
dcop kicker Panel restart
"Panel" is a dcop alias for "kicker" but may not be present in your
system.
You can always open an konsole (or an xterm) and type
dcop kicker (now look at list)
then to see what you can do, just add any of the next items listed, e.g.
dcop kicker kicker (now you should see restart())
I will give the rest of these suggestions a try. I dug down deep into the
config files when I ran KDE3, but for the most part I have just copied them
over to the appropriate place in TDE, when I can find them. Sometimes they
have been changed in such a way that I cannot preserve my settings, because
the config files are no longer text files in some instances, but xml and
other extensions.
In any case, I have managed to restore my panel (i.e., kicker, or
kicker-trinity, or maybe it will get renamed ticker?). I'll report my results
after I explore these issues further.
Bill
3. When I unlock the panel, and move round the
icons, it gets totally
messed up. Even if I lock it, the icons keep moving round, and again,
this behavior survives through reboots and shutdowns. When at last I get
my icons to behave, and lock the panel and leave it alone.
Log out of TDE, then switch to another desktop (or use ctrl+alt+f2 to
switch to a text terminal and login) then move or delete kickerrc to force
restoration of the default panel:
mv ~/.tde/share/config/kickerrc ~/.tde/share/config/kickerrc.sav
Now log back into TDE.
For 2 & 3, I have tried killing the panel by
running pkill kicker, then
restarting, but this doesn't work so well. When it does work at all, the
panel appears on only one out of my 20 desktops, and again, this
sometimes persists through multiple reboots.
Of course, TDE settings and configs are persistent and most are stored in
~/.tde/share/config
6:27 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] ksystraycmd & panel hiding
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2019 Fri, 5 Jul 22:30:42 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
I disabled autohiding almost from the beginneing (KDE2?), 'cause that time (on SuSE)
the panel showed strange hehaviour when reappearing. since then I never missed its
autohide feature. Oh, I have aded a hotkey to put apps on top of everything, if needed.
Nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
[...]
You do not have panel hiding selected in TCC->Desktop->Panels (Hiding tab)
[ ] Hide automatically do you?
No, I dislike when the panel (or kicker) hides. If I could disable it
completely, that would be better; but I hedge a little, because then maybe
for some reason, once in a thousand days, I want to make it hide because some
button or something is covered by my lower panel. That is very rare, but on
those very few occasions I've wanted to make it hide, so I can imagine that
it might happen again. Otherwise, I prefer to make the panel fixed right
where it is.
To restart, use Alt+F2
dcop kicker kicker restart
or
dcop kicker Panel restart
"Panel" is a dcop alias for "kicker" but may not be present in your
system.
You can always open an konsole (or an xterm) and type
dcop kicker (now look at list)
then to see what you can do, just add any of the next items listed, e.g.
dcop kicker kicker (now you should see restart())
I will give the rest of these suggestions a try. I dug down deep into the
config files when I ran KDE3, but for the most part I have just copied them
over to the appropriate place in TDE, when I can find them. Sometimes they
have been changed in such a way that I cannot preserve my settings, because
the config files are no longer text files in some instances, but xml and
other extensions.
In any case, I have managed to restore my panel (i.e., kicker, or
kicker-trinity, or maybe it will get renamed ticker?). I'll report my results
after I explore these issues further.
Bill
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3. When I unlock the panel, and move round the
icons, it gets totally
messed up. Even if I lock it, the icons keep moving round, and again,
this behavior survives through reboots and shutdowns. When at last I get
my icons to behave, and lock the panel and leave it alone.
Log out of TDE, then switch to another desktop (or use ctrl+alt+f2 to
switch to a text terminal and login) then move or delete kickerrc to force
restoration of the default panel:
mv ~/.tde/share/config/kickerrc ~/.tde/share/config/kickerrc.sav
Now log back into TDE.
For 2 & 3, I have tried killing the panel by
running pkill kicker, then
restarting, but this doesn't work so well. When it does work at all, the
panel appears on only one out of my 20 desktops, and again, this
sometimes persists through multiple reboots.
Of course, TDE settings and configs are persistent and most are stored in
~/.tde/share/config
7 Jul
7 Jul
3:01 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] ksystraycmd & panel hiding
On 07/06/2019 12:30 AM, William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
I will give the rest of these suggestions a try. I dug
down deep into the
config files when I ran KDE3, but for the most part I have just copied them
over to the appropriate place in TDE, when I can find them. Sometimes they
have been changed in such a way that I cannot preserve my settings, because
the config files are no longer text files in some instances, but xml and
other extensions.
In any case, I have managed to restore my panel (i.e., kicker, or
kicker-trinity, or maybe it will get renamed ticker?). I'll report my results
after I explore these issues further.
That is the horrible unintended consequence of renaming. Once we decided
against moving to the KDE4 kwin/Qt4, there was no necessity for any further
renaming and what was done in preparation for that anticipated move should
have been reverted. Now there is always a question of whether a stray (or
missing) 't' is the root cause of subtle issue being experienced.
Just image ticker, tate and tonqueror (and the myriad of config setting names,
and paths, behind the scenes that are implicated)
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
5:50 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] ksystraycmd & panel hiding
On Saturday 06 July 2019 20:01:41 David C. Rankin wrote:
On 07/06/2019 12:30 AM, William Morder via
trinity-users wrote:
I will give the rest of these suggestions a try.
I dug down deep into the
config files when I ran KDE3, but for the most part I have just copied
them over to the appropriate place in TDE, when I can find them.
Sometimes they have been changed in such a way that I cannot preserve my
settings, because the config files are no longer text files in some
instances, but xml and other extensions.
In any case, I have managed to restore my panel (i.e., kicker, or
kicker-trinity, or maybe it will get renamed ticker?). I'll report my
results after I explore these issues further.
That is the horrible unintended consequence of renaming. Once we decided
against moving to the KDE4 kwin/Qt4, there was no necessity for any further
renaming and what was done in preparation for that anticipated move should
have been reverted. Now there is always a question of whether a stray (or
missing) 't' is the root cause of subtle issue being experienced.
Just image ticker, tate and tonqueror (and the myriad of config setting
names, and paths, behind the scenes that are implicated) David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
Just to be sure that I wasn't going senile, and had forgot a previous post, I
did go back to that date you mentioned, and it was about an entirely
different issue. I also searched for *ksystraycmd*, *kicker* and *panel*, and
got nothing either with my name on it, or with the same issue as I have
described in this current thread.
However ... my mind having been addled by spending too much time in the
company of "bad influences" with bad habits ... I did wonder and question the
accuracy of my memories ... ... ... ? In any case, I plead "not guilty" to
the charge of plagiarism, or even of self-plagiarism. I may sometimes repeat
my thoughts, but I always use entirely new words, or at least a totally new
arrangement of old words.
This issue never came up with the old KDE3, except for the trivial bother
about ksystraycmd (#1 in my original post), which I can quickly kill in a
terminal. I would like the shadow icons never to appear at all, and somehow I
did find a solution in KDE3, but now it eludes me. Whether this has something
to do with renaming of KDE3 stuff, or changes in the locations or extensions
of config files, I don't know.
What really bugs me, though, is this issue with the panel, or kicker. I
disabled the self-hiding, but what happens is that the hide button gets
clicked by accident, usually when something bumps my mouse, and the pointer
just happens to be in the right place at the wrong time.
An interesting variation of this issue is that sometimes my lower panel
decides to relocate along the right or left sides of my screen, but with the
same stubborn refusal to return.
This would not be a problem, of course, if I could just click and have it come
back again; but it doesn't. It just stays hidden indefinitely, and no amount
of clicking, re-clicking, waiting, waiting some more, begging, pleading,
praying, cursing, cajoling, rebooting, shutting down, logging in to a
different desktop, etc., etc., ad peninfinitum et nauseam, can make the panel
come back, until at long last it seems to decide all on its own to reappear.
I have come to hold my lower panel in a kind of superstitious awe and dread,
and resolve never to touch it, so long as it is actually working; but every
once in a while, something happens, and I have this problem all over again.
I disabled autohiding almost from the beginneing
(KDE2?), 'cause that time
(on SuSE) the panel showed strange hehaviour when reappearing. since then I
never missed its autohide feature. Oh, I have aded a hotkey to put apps on
top of everything, if needed.
Nik
How did you create that hotkey? (And by the way, I want my icons to appear on
my panel, not my desktop. I keep my desktops clear, so that I can use them to
display (mostly) art or other graphics.) Now, if I could have a hotkey to
restore my panel, that might be useful.
Bill
11:25 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] ksystraycmd & panel hiding
On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 22:50:34 -0700
"William Morder via trinity-users"
<trinity-users(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net> wrote:
What really bugs me, though, is this issue with the
panel, or kicker. I
disabled the self-hiding, but what happens is that the hide button gets
clicked by accident, usually when something bumps my mouse, and the pointer
just happens to be in the right place at the wrong time.
You can tell it not to display the panel hiding buttons (uncheck "Show left
panel-hiding
button" and "Show right panel-hiding button" in the Panel -> Hiding
configuration
page). Can't click on them, mistakenly or otherwise, if they're not there.
E. Liddell
11:39 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] ksystraycmd & panel hiding
On Sunday 07 July 2019 04:25:09 E. Liddell wrote:
Huh. I did try that before, and somehow that bit kept coming back. (I mean,
the panel hiding buttons were still there, waiting to do their worst.) Just
tried it again, and they're gone.
So, part of one of my issues (and one of the more annoying) is resolved; even
if I am mystified why I couldn't do that before. Maybe some lost config file?
Anyway, thanks to the mysterious E. Liddell for sending me back to gui basics.
Bill
On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 22:50:34 -0700
"William Morder via trinity-users"
<trinity-users(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net> wrote:
What really
bugs me, though, is this issue with the panel, or kicker. I
disabled the self-hiding, but what happens is that the hide button gets
clicked by accident, usually when something bumps my mouse, and the
pointer just happens to be in the right place at the wrong time.
You can tell it not to display the panel hiding buttons (uncheck "Show left
panel-hiding button" and "Show right panel-hiding button" in the Panel
->
Hiding configuration page). Can't click on them, mistakenly or otherwise,
if they're not there.
E. Liddell
11 Apr
11 Apr
7:33 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] how to disable ksystraycmd?
Back when I used KDE3, I had done *something* to disable the reduplication of
icons in my systray, but I forgot how it was done, and somehow I lost the
config file, or whatever it was that I did to suppress it.
I know it's a trivial complaint, but it's still annoying that when I run most
apps, duplicate "ghost" icons appear in my system tray, thus taking up yet
more space in my desktop. I kill them by running the command pkill
ksystraycmd in a shell, and they go away ... until the next time I start a
new program, and then it's back. I estimate that it takes about five seconds
to kill the ghost icons, but those seconds add up, and according to my
calculations, I have lost about 6 months from my projected lifespan. This is
time that I'd rather spend doing something else.
There are some config files which I believed might do the trick:
/home/<USER>/.kde/share/config/systemtray_panelappletrc
/home/<USER>/.trinity/share/config/systemtray_panelappletrc
In my old KDE3 configuration (or so I *believed* that I remembered), I just
removed ksystraycmd from this line:
[HiddenTrayIcons]
Hidden=ksystraycmd
and presto! it was gone. But now it doesn't seem to work.
I looked for some kind of corresponding config file here:
/opt/trinity/share/config.kcfg/
but found nothing. (I'm not even sure that the config files in this folder
perform the same functions as the old config files (which always end in -rc).
Does anybody have a clue about how to suppress these ghost icons? (And, by
extension, where are our configuration files, and how do we alter them?)
Bill
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16 Apr
16 Apr
11:46 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] how to disable ksystraycmd?
Dear Bill,
Am Samstag, 11. April 2020 schrieb William Morder via trinity-users:
I know it's a trivial complaint, but it's
still annoying that when I
run most apps, duplicate "ghost" icons appear in my system tray,
What are these "ghost" icons and where (from which program) do they come
from?
There are some config files which I believed might do
the trick:
/home/<USER>/.kde/share/config/systemtray_panelappletrc
/home/<USER>/.trinity/share/config/systemtray_panelappletrc
In my old KDE3 configuration (or so I *believed* that
I remembered),
I just removed ksystraycmd from this line:
[HiddenTrayIcons]
Hidden=ksystraycmd
and presto! it was gone. But now it doesn't seem to work.
Are you sure that this Option switched off *all* icons from all programs
globally?
Does anybody have a clue about how to suppress these
ghost icons?
(And, by extension, where are our configuration files, and how do we
alter them?)
The only places I could find where there are options to either show/put
an icon in the systray or not are in config files of specific programs:
$ cd .trinity/share
$ grep -ri Tray * # output trimmed
config/kteatimerc:UseTrayVis=true
config/kgetrc:systemtrayquitKGet=false
config/kmplayerrc:Dock in System Tray=true
config/tdewalletmanagerrc:systemtrayquitDienstprogramm für digitale
Brieftasche=false
config/kmailrc:SystemTrayEnabled=true
config/kmailrc:SystemTrayPolicy=ShowAlways
config/kmailrc:systemtrayquitKMail=false
config/kopeterc:Show Systemtray=true
config/kopeterc:Trayflash Notification=true
config/kopeterc:Trayflash Notification Left Click Opens Message=true
config/kopeterc:Trayflash Notification Set Current Desktop To Chat
View=true
config/kmldonkeyrc:systemtrayquitKMLDonkey=false
config/kmldonkeyrc:CloseToTrayIcon=true
config/kmldonkeyrc:ShowTrayIcon=true
config/kmixrc:TrayVolumeControl=true
config/krusaderrc:Start To Tray=false
config/tdenetworkmanagerrc:systemtrayquitKNetworkManager=false
config/kgpgrc:systemtrayquitKGpg=false
config/kxkbrc:systemtrayquitKDE-Dienstprogramm für die Tastatur=false
config/kxkbrc:systemtrayquitTDE-Dienstprogramm für die Tastatur=false
config/uiserverrc:ShowSystemTray=false
config/kwalletmanagerrc:systemtrayquitDienstprogramm für digitale
Brieftasche=false
config/kwalletmanagerrc:systemtrayquitKDE Wallet Manager=false
config/kshutdownrc:systemtrayquitKShutDown=false
config/kjobviewerrc:systemtrayquitKJobViewer=false
So maybe you can't globally prevent all programs running inside TDE from
placing icons in the systray but only switch that off on a per program
basis.
If that is the case you still might find an option like that within the
program you are using and which you don't want to place an icon in
systray.
I don't know if any of this applies to your situation with "duplicate
ghost icons", but I thought I'd give it a try to help.
If it doesn't you can do what I once did to find a bug in my TDE
configuration:
1. create a new user (Don't name him/her "test" with password
"test" ;)
2. Can you observe the phenomenon under the new (unconfigured) user? If
not:
3. Log out from the new user account, copy one of the relevant config
files after another into the corresponding .trinity/* directory of the
newly created user and see if the phenomenon reappears after the next
login. Then you would know in which file the option is set and you
could compare these old/new config files.
HTH
Kind regards,
Stefan
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12:46 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] how to disable ksystraycmd?
On Thursday 16 April 2020 04:46:25 Stefan Krusche wrote:
Trinity Control Center has options to make an icon appear in the system tray,
or not; but for some programs, it is convenient to have an icon there for a
quick point-and-click (smplayer, obviously), because I want to stop and/or
start a video, or hide the program. But I can't change the settings in TCC, to
have the icon appear in the tray, without also having its ghost appear on
first run.
Dear Bill,
Am Samstag, 11. April 2020 schrieb William Morder via trinity-users:
Stefan,
Thanks for your reply. I know it's a trivial complaint, but I like to get my
machines to do what I want. The question is ... which is to be master?
:-)
They come from (almost) whatever program I run: e.g., smplayer, psi-plus,
whatever. (These are the most common examples that come to mind, but there are
many others.) Now that I think about it, I wonder if they are all non-TDE
programs? ... but I'd have to consider that question some more.
See attachment for a sample screenshot. Look to the right of center in the
bottom panel, where all the program icons are clustered together.
Note that there are two icons for smplayer; one is the icon that appears in
the system tray, and then there is another that is almost like it, but a sort
of "ghost" - a duplicate, but as you can see it looks a little different.
Sometimes I get several of these ghost icons; at other times, the ghosts are
for some other program(s) that I started around the same time, and do not
correspond to the program that they are supposed to represent. (So, for
instance, the ghost icon will tell me, with a tooltip, when I put the mouse
pointer over it, that it represents psi-plus, but the ghost icon looks like
smplayer.) In any case, these items take up space, and perform no useful
function, so far as I can tell.
I know it's a trivial complaint, but it's
still annoying that when I
run most apps, duplicate "ghost" icons appear in my system tray,
What are these "ghost" icons and where (from which program) do they come
from?
There are some
config files which I believed might do the trick:
/home/<USER>/.kde/share/config/systemtray_panelappletrc
/home/<USER>/.trinity/share/config/systemtray_panelappletrc
In my old KDE3 configuration (or so I *believed* that I remembered),
I just removed ksystraycmd from this line:
[HiddenTrayIcons]
Hidden=ksystraycmd
and presto! it was gone. But now it doesn't seem to work.
Are you sure that this Option switched off *all* icons from all programs
globally?
Does anybody have a clue about how to suppress
these ghost icons?
(And, by extension, where are our configuration files, and how do we
alter them?)
The only places I could find where there are options to either show/put
an icon in the systray or not are in config files of specific programs:
$ cd .trinity/share
$ grep -ri Tray * # output trimmed
config/kteatimerc:UseTrayVis=true
config/kgetrc:systemtrayquitKGet=false
config/kmplayerrc:Dock in System Tray=true
config/tdewalletmanagerrc:systemtrayquitDienstprogramm für digitale
Brieftasche=false
config/kmailrc:SystemTrayEnabled=true
config/kmailrc:SystemTrayPolicy=ShowAlways
config/kmailrc:systemtrayquitKMail=false
config/kopeterc:Show Systemtray=true
config/kopeterc:Trayflash Notification=true
config/kopeterc:Trayflash Notification Left Click Opens Message=true
config/kopeterc:Trayflash Notification Set Current Desktop To Chat
View=true
config/kmldonkeyrc:systemtrayquitKMLDonkey=false
config/kmldonkeyrc:CloseToTrayIcon=true
config/kmldonkeyrc:ShowTrayIcon=true
config/kmixrc:TrayVolumeControl=true
config/krusaderrc:Start To Tray=false
config/tdenetworkmanagerrc:systemtrayquitKNetworkManager=false
config/kgpgrc:systemtrayquitKGpg=false
config/kxkbrc:systemtrayquitKDE-Dienstprogramm für die Tastatur=false
config/kxkbrc:systemtrayquitTDE-Dienstprogramm für die Tastatur=false
config/uiserverrc:ShowSystemTray=false
config/kwalletmanagerrc:systemtrayquitDienstprogramm für digitale
Brieftasche=false
config/kwalletmanagerrc:systemtrayquitKDE Wallet Manager=false
config/kshutdownrc:systemtrayquitKShutDown=false
config/kjobviewerrc:systemtrayquitKJobViewer=false
So maybe you can't globally prevent all programs running inside TDE from
placing icons in the systray but only switch that off on a per program
basis.
If that is the case you still might find an option like that within the
program you are using and which you don't want to place an icon in
systray.
I don't know if any of this applies to your situation with "duplicate
ghost icons", but I thought I'd give it a try to help.
If it doesn't you can do what I once did to find a bug in my TDE
configuration:
1. create a new user (Don't name him/her "test" with password
"test" ;)
2. Can you observe the phenomenon under the new (unconfigured) user? If
not:
3. Log out from the new user account, copy one of the relevant config
files after another into the corresponding .trinity/* directory of the
newly created user and see if the phenomenon reappears after the next
login. Then you would know in which file the option is set and you
could compare these old/new config files.
HTH
Kind regards,
Stefan
Thanks much. I will run through these suggestions to see if anything helps.
Bill
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2:37 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] how to disable ksystraycmd?
Am Donnerstag, 16. April 2020 schrieb William Morder via trinity-users:
They come from (almost) whatever program I run: e.g.,
smplayer,
psi-plus, whatever. (These are the most common examples that come to
mind, but there are many others.) Now that I think about it, I wonder
if they are all non-TDE programs? ... but I'd have to consider that
question some more.
Hi Bill, just a quick shot from the hip: if these are qt4-based programs
like smplayer then the TDE configuration wouldn't affect them because
they have their own configuration. However, smplayer doesn't put an
icon into my systray and I can not explain why…
Kind regards,
Stefan
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3:21 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] how to disable ksystraycmd?
On Thursday 16 April 2020 09:37:18 am Stefan Krusche wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 16. April 2020 schrieb William Morder
via trinity-users:
SMplayer doesn't put an icon in my systray either. Nor could I find an option
in SMPlayer related to the systray.
I'll add a shot in the dark too, have you tried changing the TDE theme:
TCC >> Appearance & Themes >> Theme Manager
to see if it's maybe theme related?
Although when I open mine, I find that TDD doesn't have any theme selected,
which is a bit wonky in itself...
Best,
Michael
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They come from (almost) whatever program I run:
e.g., smplayer,
psi-plus, whatever. (These are the most common examples that come to
mind, but there are many others.) Now that I think about it, I wonder
if they are all non-TDE programs? ... but I'd have to consider that
question some more.
Hi Bill, just a quick shot from the hip: if these are qt4-based programs
like smplayer then the TDE configuration wouldn't affect them because
they have their own configuration. However, smplayer doesn't put an
icon into my systray and I can not explain why…
3:44 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] how to disable ksystraycmd?
On Thursday 16 April 2020 10:18:34 am BorgLabs - Kate Draven wrote:
On Thursday 16 April 2020 10:21:26 am Michael wrote:
> SMplayer doesn't put an icon in my systray either. Nor could I find an
> option in SMPlayer related to the systray.
smplayer has an option to put an icon in the systray.
"options" > "show icon in system tray"
Huh, gotta wonder why they only put it in a menu item and not in the
preferences, which has it's own button so you don't need to open the options
menu ;)
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5:35 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: how to disable ksystraycmd?
William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
Does anybody have a clue about how to suppress these
ghost icons? (And, by
extension, where are our configuration files, and how do we alter them?)
I am not sure which exactly is the systray - in my language it says system
panel (see attached img15). as far as I know these are applications that
register in the system panel/tray - means it can be only TDE app capable of
registering in the system panel/tray.
on the additional panel I have the tasks (see attached img16) where all
applications show up and you can group them, so instead 20 firefox icons,
you have only one or similar - have a look in the settings (right mouse
click)
On the other topic - for application to be unique, it depends how it is
developed. I am not sure if this would work with not TDE apps. I think it
depends how they have been developed. For example in TDE there is
KUniqueApplication - which is used to start only one instance of the
application in contrast to KApplication - I am not sure if they changed now
to TDEApplication etc. but it is not relevant here.
regards
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18 Jun
18 Jun
10:19 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] VLC crashes - chronic problem since Jessie
This is directed mostly to Nik (since I've heard him mention both Devuan and
VLC); but also to anybody else who might have some inkling what is causing
this issue.
VLC is (or would be) my media player of choice on most of my machines or
devices. I use it on my smartphone, and don't need anything else to play
music, movies, stream videos or radio. (I've tried other media players, yes,
but they are all inadequate by comparison, at least for my own needs.) So
many good things to say about VLC ... until about a year or two ago.
Ever since Jessie it will start up, but then immediately crashes. I've gone
through looking for conflicts, but nothing obvious jumps out at me.
Any suggestions about where to look, or what might be causing such an issue?
Bill
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19 Jun
19 Jun
4:58 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: VLC crashes - chronic problem since Jessie
William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
VLC is (or would be) my media player of choice on most
of my machines or
devices. I use it on my smartphone, and don't need anything else to play
music, movies, stream videos or radio. (I've tried other media players,
yes, but they are all inadequate by comparison, at least for my own
needs.) So many good things to say about VLC ... until about a year or two
ago.
Might be through, but if I was to use GTK application, I wouldn't stick to
TDE for so long.
You'll have to debug - find out where and why it fails.
From what you are writing it could be some old library on the way or some
old configuration saved around.
Did you try with another fresh user (just create one, log in and run VLC).
You will find out if it has to do with user configuration
My choice is mplayer with kplayer as frontend BTW. The only problem I have
from time to time is with commercial DVDs.
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6:16 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: VLC crashes - chronic problem since Jessie - RESOLVED!
On Thursday 18 June 2020 21:58:26 deloptes wrote:
William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
It didn't take too long, once I started thinking about it from a different
point of view. Somebody off-handedly mentioned permissions, and somebody else
said to make sure X was included in group "video", etc. And I considered
creating a new user, too. But before I did that I just used apt-get to purge,
then I looked for the folders where the config files are kept. I didn't even
delete them, but only renamed the folders everywhere that I found vlc, to
vlc-x, so that I didn't lose them, but so a new installation of vlc wouldn't
look there.
Funny thing is, I am pretty sure I tried all this once before. At least now
it's working; maybe something will get changed again?
I'm still not sure how it got messed up, since I generally stick with what
works, and even make a backup of that folder or file. But somehow, something
got messed up. Anyway, so that's better, because I was having a problem
watching videos of some file types.
Bill
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VLC is (or would be) my media player of choice on
most of my machines or
devices. I use it on my smartphone, and don't need anything else to play
music, movies, stream videos or radio. (I've tried other media players,
yes, but they are all inadequate by comparison, at least for my own
needs.) So many good things to say about VLC ... until about a year or
two ago.
Might be through, but if I was to use GTK application, I wouldn't stick to
TDE for so long.
You'll have to debug - find out where and why it fails.
From what you are writing it could be some old library on the way or some
old configuration saved around.
Did you try with another fresh user (just create one, log in and run VLC).
You will find out if it has to do with user configuration
My choice is mplayer with kplayer as frontend BTW. The only problem I have
from time to time is with commercial DVDs.
5:21 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] VLC crashes - chronic problem since Jessie
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 18 Jun 15:19:49 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
This is directed mostly to Nik (since I've heard
him mention both Devuan and
VLC); but also to anybody else who might have some inkling what is causing
this issue.
VLC is (or would be) my media player of choice on most of my machines or
devices. I use it on my smartphone, and don't need anything else to play
music, movies, stream videos or radio. (I've tried other media players, yes,
but they are all inadequate by comparison, at least for my own needs.) So
many good things to say about VLC ... until about a year or two ago.
Ever since Jessie it will start up, but then immediately crashes. I've gone
through looking for conflicts, but nothing obvious jumps out at me.
Any suggestions about where to look, or what might be causing such an issue?
Bill
Sorry, I think I missed that message. If you have not solved it in the meantime: delete
"~/.config/vlc/" and "~/.local/share/vlc"
Nik
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6:03 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] VLC crashes - chronic problem since Jessie - RESOLVED ... almost
On Friday 19 June 2020 10:21:32 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 18 Jun 15:19:49 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Hi Nik!
No problem, as others jumped their suggestions. However I did miss the entry
in "~/.local/share/vlc", so that helps me, too. And I did believe that I had
resolved the issue, until I tried to play another film; when I tried to load
the next item, however, I got the same problems all over again.
I am still fiddling with it, looking for old configurations that used to work,
to see if I can somehow adapt the settings, but it seems that VLC has changed
something, and whatever has changed now interferes with its operation.
In particular, I notice that I am asked for explicit permission for network
access. But I don't stream videos from online sources; I only play local
files, and have no need of Internet while I am watching; so that seems
unnecessary. I don't remember being asked for such permissions before, but
maybe I used my own settings to evade the problem until now?
Anyway, at present I must delete VLC folders, etc., then start over for every
time I want to play a film. At least I made some progress: I can use VLC (a
little), whereas before yesterday, for a year or more past, I could not use
it at all.
Does anybody else remember the promise, that computers would make our lives
easier, and give us more free time?
Bill
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This is directed mostly to Nik (since I've
heard him mention both Devuan
and VLC); but also to anybody else who might have some inkling what is
causing this issue.
VLC is (or would be) my media player of choice on most of my machines or
devices. I use it on my smartphone, and don't need anything else to play
music, movies, stream videos or radio. (I've tried other media players,
yes, but they are all inadequate by comparison, at least for my own
needs.) So many good things to say about VLC ... until about a year or
two ago.
Ever since Jessie it will start up, but then immediately crashes. I've
gone through looking for conflicts, but nothing obvious jumps out at me.
Any suggestions about where to look, or what might be causing such an
issue?
Bill
Sorry, I think I missed that message. If you have not solved it in the
meantime: delete "~/.config/vlc/" and "~/.local/share/vlc"
Nik
6:17 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] VLC crashes - chronic problem since Jessie - RESOLVED ... almost
Anno domini 2020 Fri, 19 Jun 11:03:09 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Friday 19 June 2020 10:21:32 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Can you start vlc from commandline and post the error message - if any?
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 18 Jun 15:19:49 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Hi Nik!
No problem, as others jumped their suggestions. However I did miss the entry
in "~/.local/share/vlc", so that helps me, too. And I did believe that I had
resolved the issue, until I tried to play another film; when I tried to load
the next item, however, I got the same problems all over again.
I am still fiddling with it, looking for old configurations that used to work,
to see if I can somehow adapt the settings, but it seems that VLC has changed
something, and whatever has changed now interferes with its operation.
In particular, I notice that I am asked for explicit permission for network
access. But I don't stream videos from online sources; I only play local
files, and have no need of Internet while I am watching; so that seems
unnecessary. I don't remember being asked for such permissions before, but
maybe I used my own settings to evade the problem until now?
Anyway, at present I must delete VLC folders, etc., then start over for every
time I want to play a film. At least I made some progress: I can use VLC (a
little), whereas before yesterday, for a year or more past, I could not use
it at all. This is directed mostly to Nik (since I've
heard him mention both Devuan
and VLC); but also to anybody else who might have some inkling what is
causing this issue.
VLC is (or would be) my media player of choice on most of my machines or
devices. I use it on my smartphone, and don't need anything else to play
music, movies, stream videos or radio. (I've tried other media players,
yes, but they are all inadequate by comparison, at least for my own
needs.) So many good things to say about VLC ... until about a year or
two ago.
Ever since Jessie it will start up, but then immediately crashes. I've
gone through looking for conflicts, but nothing obvious jumps out at me.
Any suggestions about where to look, or what might be causing such an
issue?
Bill
Sorry, I think I missed that message. If you have not solved it in the
meantime: delete "~/.config/vlc/" and "~/.local/share/vlc"
Nik
Does anybody else remember the promise, that computers would make our lives
easier, and give us more free time?
Yes. And the paperfree office. And then they published UT99 :)
Nik
Bill
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11:34 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: VLC crashes - chronic problem since Jessie - RESOLVED ... almost
On Friday 19 June 2020 11:17:22 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Fri, 19 Jun 11:03:09 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Sorry for the delay in responding. Sometimes I get tired of fighting against
the machine.
;-)
Well, so I got it going again, at least operable. I am a hoarder, and in one
of my hoards I found some old configuration files for VLC that preserve my
settings. I still have some problems playing anything directly from a saved
iso, as well as some vobs and mpegs. I checked this with an iso that I
created myself (so nothing weird to interfere with playback), and I still
have problems with some of them. This doesn't seem right.
I did find out something interesting, though. I have purged everything KDE4/5,
as well as any traces of MATE or LXDE or whatever else, and even after
purging I still keep finding KDE4/5 krap. It is like being in an abusive
relationship. My old desktop doesn't want to let me go, and keeps trying to
control me even after I have emotionally moved on to a better desktop.
After getting rid of any lingering KDE4/5 files, I suddenly realized that VLC
had been using KDE theme settings, rather than my TDE settings. (When I first
installed Debian, I used a DVD that had made KDE5 one of the default choices,
so I had to configure KDE Plasma before I could get TDE to work. Now I have
got rid of KDE, but it seems not quite.)
So I want to believe that I have it almost rebuilt as I like, but we'll see.
At the moment, no errors messages to report, but it's still not running quite
right.
Whenever I can do a fresh installation on a new SSD, I will try to build a new
machine as GNU/Linux Devuan with TDE from the bottom up.
Bill
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On Friday 19 June 2020 10:21:32 Dr. Nikolaus
Klepp wrote:
Can you start vlc from commandline and post the error message - if any?
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 18 Jun 15:19:49 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Hi Nik!
No problem, as others jumped their suggestions. However I did miss the
entry in "~/.local/share/vlc", so that helps me, too. And I did believe
that I had resolved the issue, until I tried to play another film; when I
tried to load the next item, however, I got the same problems all over
again.
I am still fiddling with it, looking for old configurations that used to
work, to see if I can somehow adapt the settings, but it seems that VLC
has changed something, and whatever has changed now interferes with its
operation.
In particular, I notice that I am asked for explicit permission for
network access. But I don't stream videos from online sources; I only
play local files, and have no need of Internet while I am watching; so
that seems unnecessary. I don't remember being asked for such permissions
before, but maybe I used my own settings to evade the problem until now?
Anyway, at present I must delete VLC folders, etc., then start over for
every time I want to play a film. At least I made some progress: I can
use VLC (a little), whereas before yesterday, for a year or more past, I
could not use it at all. This is directed mostly to Nik (since I've
heard him mention both
Devuan and VLC); but also to anybody else who might have some inkling
what is causing this issue.
VLC is (or would be) my media player of choice on most of my machines
or devices. I use it on my smartphone, and don't need anything else
to play music, movies, stream videos or radio. (I've tried other
media players, yes, but they are all inadequate by comparison, at
least for my own needs.) So many good things to say about VLC ...
until about a year or two ago.
Ever since Jessie it will start up, but then immediately crashes.
I've gone through looking for conflicts, but nothing obvious jumps
out at me.
Any suggestions about where to look, or what might be causing such an
issue?
Bill
Sorry, I think I missed that message. If you have not solved it in the
meantime: delete "~/.config/vlc/" and "~/.local/share/vlc"
Nik Does anybody else remember the promise, that
computers would make our
lives easier, and give us more free time?
Yes. And the paperfree office. And then they published UT99 :)
Nik
20 Jun
20 Jun
1:55 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: VLC crashes - chronic problem since Jessie - RESOLVED ... almost
On Friday 19 June 2020 06:34:45 pm William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
Whenever I can do a fresh installation on a new SSD, I
will try to build a
new machine as GNU/Linux Devuan with TDE from the bottom up.
Hi Bill,
If you can, go NVMe, they're 4-10 times faster than SATA SSDs. *
https://pcpartpicker.com/products/internal-hard-drive/#sort=ppgb&D=1
https://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/ssd.html
It'd probably be worth the cost of a new motherboard, if your current one
doesn't support them.
Best,
Michael
* Technically they're both SSDs, but different interfaces.
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3:05 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: VLC crashes - chronic problem since Jessie - RESOLVED ... almost
On Friday 19 June 2020, William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
On Friday 19 June 2020 11:17:22 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp
wrote:
I sometimes
have strange problems when I try to reuse a user dir in new builds
(ghosts in the machine).
When I do is start with clean user and copy over, bit by bit, the config files
I need for important stuff like konqueror. Everything else I can just
readjust as I go along.
Seems to work well.
Good luck human.
Kate
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Anno domini 2020 Fri, 19 Jun 11:03:09 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Sorry for the delay in responding. Sometimes I get tired of fighting
against the machine.
;-)
Well, so I got it going again, at least operable. I am a hoarder, and in
one of my hoards I found some old configuration files for VLC that preserve
my settings. I still have some problems playing anything directly from a
saved iso, as well as some vobs and mpegs. I checked this with an iso that
I created myself (so nothing weird to interfere with playback), and I still
have problems with some of them. This doesn't seem right.
I did find out something interesting, though. I have purged everything
KDE4/5, as well as any traces of MATE or LXDE or whatever else, and even
after purging I still keep finding KDE4/5 krap. It is like being in an
abusive relationship. My old desktop doesn't want to let me go, and keeps
trying to control me even after I have emotionally moved on to a better
desktop.
After getting rid of any lingering KDE4/5 files, I suddenly realized that
VLC had been using KDE theme settings, rather than my TDE settings. (When I
first installed Debian, I used a DVD that had made KDE5 one of the default
choices, so I had to configure KDE Plasma before I could get TDE to work.
Now I have got rid of KDE, but it seems not quite.)
So I want to believe that I have it almost rebuilt as I like, but we'll
see. At the moment, no errors messages to report, but it's still not
running quite right.
Whenever I can do a fresh installation on a new SSD, I will try to build a
new machine as GNU/Linux Devuan with TDE from the bottom up.
Bill
--------------------------------------------------------------------- On Friday 19 June 2020 10:21:32 Dr. Nikolaus
Klepp wrote:
Can you start vlc from commandline and post the error message - if any?
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 18 Jun 15:19:49 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
> This is directed mostly to Nik (since I've heard him mention both
> Devuan and VLC); but also to anybody else who might have some
> inkling what is causing this issue.
>
> VLC is (or would be) my media player of choice on most of my
> machines or devices. I use it on my smartphone, and don't need
> anything else to play music, movies, stream videos or radio. (I've
> tried other media players, yes, but they are all inadequate by
> comparison, at least for my own needs.) So many good things to say
> about VLC ... until about a year or two ago.
>
> Ever since Jessie it will start up, but then immediately crashes.
> I've gone through looking for conflicts, but nothing obvious jumps
> out at me.
>
> Any suggestions about where to look, or what might be causing such
> an issue?
>
> Bill
Sorry, I think I missed that message. If you have not solved it in
the meantime: delete "~/.config/vlc/" and "~/.local/share/vlc"
Nik
Hi Nik!
No problem, as others jumped their suggestions. However I did miss the
entry in "~/.local/share/vlc", so that helps me, too. And I did believe
that I had resolved the issue, until I tried to play another film; when
I tried to load the next item, however, I got the same problems all
over again.
I am still fiddling with it, looking for old configurations that used
to work, to see if I can somehow adapt the settings, but it seems that
VLC has changed something, and whatever has changed now interferes with
its operation.
In particular, I notice that I am asked for explicit permission for
network access. But I don't stream videos from online sources; I only
play local files, and have no need of Internet while I am watching; so
that seems unnecessary. I don't remember being asked for such
permissions before, but maybe I used my own settings to evade the
problem until now?
Anyway, at present I must delete VLC folders, etc., then start over for
every time I want to play a film. At least I made some progress: I can
use VLC (a little), whereas before yesterday, for a year or more past,
I could not use it at all. Does anybody else remember the promise, that
computers would make our
lives easier, and give us more free time?
Yes. And the paperfree office. And then they published UT99 :)
Nik
4:10 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: VLC crashes - RESOLVED ... almost - going OT, sorry
On Friday 19 June 2020 20:05:12 BorgLabs - Kate Draven wrote:
On Friday 19 June 2020, William Morder via
trinity-users wrote:
*snip*
>
> Whenever I can do a fresh installation on a new SSD, I will try to build
> a new machine as GNU/Linux Devuan with TDE from the bottom up.
>
> Bill
>
*snip*
I sometimes have strange problems when I try to reuse
a user dir in new
builds (ghosts in the machine).
When I do is start with clean user and copy over, bit by bit, the config
files I need for important stuff like konqueror. Everything else I can just
readjust as I go along.
Seems to work well.
Good luck human.
Kate
Yes, I do the same kind of thing ... sort of ... but after rebuilding machines
with the same basic desktop (KDE3x > TDE), I have managed to streamline the
process just a bit. I collect the necessary config files (and similar
what-nots), save copies to somewhere on an external drive; then, when I
reinstall, I just run some scripts/commands, and copy over all my
personalized settings.
I try to prune away the rest, but you see there was a period of a few years
during which the world was in an even more uncertain situation (i.e., there
was no half-decent desktop to replace KDE3), and I engaged in some brief
dalliances and flirtations with lesser alternatives.
Then I discovered TDE, and gradually migrated from PC Linux to Kubuntu to
Debian and finally to Devuan; where I hope to remain until we humans at
someday freed from our enslavement to these machines.
As an unfortunate side-effect, I have picked up a lot of junk from these other
sources, even though my desktop now looks almost identical to that which I
created back around 2005 or 2006. So my basic idea is the same as yours, just
the local circumstances have required me to adapt new methods.
With my present setup, I can now recreate my entire system, with all files, a
dozen hard drives, etc.; and it is all contained in a couple flash drives,
with backups online as well as cold storage.
If all I have is my memorized master password, then I can still rebuild
everything from scratch. Also I have a flash drive that is partitioned like a
mini-version of my desktop, which I can use to boot up any working computer,
to use as a hardware host, and which will run like my own system.
So when the Zombies come to hunt us down for our brains, I can escape to
somewhere that they will *never* look (e.g., a cave up in the mountains, or
the public library), and restore my world.
Bill
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9:31 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: VLC crashes - RESOLVED ... almost - going OT, sorry
On Saturday 20 June 2020, William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
"...until we humans at someday freed from our enslavement to these machines."
Never.
But glad to hear you fixed vlc.
Kate
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9:46 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: VLC crashes - RESOLVED ... almost - going OT, sorry
On Saturday 20 June 2020 14:31:30 BorgLabs - Kate Draven wrote:
On Saturday 20 June 2020, William Morder via
trinity-users wrote:
"...until we humans at someday freed from our enslavement to these
machines."
Never.
But glad to hear you fixed vlc.
Kate
Sorry about that mistake. I need to enable spellchecking for Kmail, as I see a
lot of typos or half-unfinished revisions somehow get sent, when I didn't
mean it to come out like that.
"at" ought to be "are"
The same goes for two-thirds of my other emails sent to the list. I hate
spellcheckers, but I hate mistakes like this even worse.
Bill
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10:35 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: VLC crashes - RESOLVED ... almost - going OT, sorry
On Saturday 20 June 2020, William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
On Saturday 20 June 2020 14:31:30 BorgLabs - Kate
Draven wrote:
Oh no I'm
talking about the typos.
I'm talking about you thinking humans will ever be freed from their techno
overlords.
Resistance is futile.
Kate
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On Saturday 20 June 2020, William Morder via
trinity-users wrote:
"...until we humans at someday freed from our enslavement to these
machines."
Never.
But glad to hear you fixed vlc.
Kate
Sorry about that mistake. I need to enable spellchecking for Kmail, as I
see a lot of typos or half-unfinished revisions somehow get sent, when I
didn't mean it to come out like that.
"at" ought to be "are"
The same goes for two-thirds of my other emails sent to the list. I hate
spellcheckers, but I hate mistakes like this even worse.
Bill
---------------------------------------------------------------------
10:43 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: VLC crashes - RESOLVED ... almost - going OT, sorry
On Saturday 20 June 2020 15:35:37 BorgLabs - Kate Draven wrote:
On Saturday 20 June 2020, William Morder via
trinity-users wrote:
Yes, I know what you were talking about. It's just that I am forced to see my
own mistakes, which is embarrassing.
We can either outright resist and rebell against our machine masters, or we
can learn how they work and get them to do what we want. But we must never
let them know that we know.
Bill
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On Saturday 20 June 2020 14:31:30 BorgLabs - Kate
Draven wrote:
Oh no I'm talking about the typos.
I'm talking about you thinking humans will ever be freed from their techno
overlords.
Resistance is futile.
Kate
On Saturday 20 June 2020, William Morder via
trinity-users wrote:
"...until we humans at someday freed from our enslavement to these
machines."
Never.
But glad to hear you fixed vlc.
Kate
Sorry about that mistake. I need to enable spellchecking for Kmail, as I
see a lot of typos or half-unfinished revisions somehow get sent, when I
didn't mean it to come out like that.
"at" ought to be "are"
The same goes for two-thirds of my other emails sent to the list. I hate
spellcheckers, but I hate mistakes like this even worse.
Bill
---------------------------------------------------------------------
7:30 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: VLC crashes - chronic problem since Jessie - RESOLVED ... almost
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 16:34:45 -0700
"William Morder via trinity-users"
<trinity-users(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net> wrote:
Well, so I got it going again, at least operable. I am
a hoarder, and in one
of my hoards I found some old configuration files for VLC that preserve my
settings. I still have some problems playing anything directly from a saved
iso, as well as some vobs and mpegs. I checked this with an iso that I
created myself (so nothing weird to interfere with playback), and I still
have problems with some of them. This doesn't seem right.
After getting rid of any lingering KDE4/5 files, I
suddenly realized that VLC
had been using KDE theme settings, rather than my TDE settings. (When I first
installed Debian, I used a DVD that had made KDE5 one of the default choices,
so I had to configure KDE Plasma before I could get TDE to work. Now I have
got rid of KDE, but it seems not quite.)
VLC has over a hundred (!) compile-time flags governing different features,
and an equally complex dependency tree. Your distro probably flipped a
couple of things from "off" to "on", or vice-versa. The KDE5 theme
stuff is
probably being pulled in by the QT5 support, at a guess. In addition, VLC
can pull in ffmpeg, which has its own huge assortment of flags that may have
been flipped.
(VLC has one of the most terrifying ebuilds I have ever seen. Now I
remember why I stick to mplayer. It saves the terror for its man page.)
E. Liddell
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9:11 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: VLC crashes - chronic problem since Jessie - RESOLVED ... almost
On Saturday 20 June 2020 12:30:44 E. Liddell wrote:
I also use other media players for other things sometimes, including mplayer
and some of its variants. But VLC can do many things that other players
can't, so it's useful. The nice thing about running Linux is that we have
lots of choices, rather than having our choices made for us.
The same goes for TDE, only more so. When I tried out other desktops, I got
annoyed very fast, because there was only so much that I could do to make
them like I wanted. Beyond those limits, one dare not go!
Bill
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On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 16:34:45 -0700
"William Morder via trinity-users"
<trinity-users(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net> wrote:
Well, so I got
it going again, at least operable. I am a hoarder, and in
one of my hoards I found some old configuration files for VLC that
preserve my settings. I still have some problems playing anything
directly from a saved iso, as well as some vobs and mpegs. I checked this
with an iso that I created myself (so nothing weird to interfere with
playback), and I still have problems with some of them. This doesn't seem
right.
After getting rid of any lingering KDE4/5 files, I suddenly realized that
VLC had been using KDE theme settings, rather than my TDE settings. (When
I first installed Debian, I used a DVD that had made KDE5 one of the
default choices, so I had to configure KDE Plasma before I could get TDE
to work. Now I have got rid of KDE, but it seems not quite.)
VLC has over a hundred (!) compile-time flags governing different features,
and an equally complex dependency tree. Your distro probably flipped a
couple of things from "off" to "on", or vice-versa. The KDE5 theme
stuff
is probably being pulled in by the QT5 support, at a guess. In addition,
VLC can pull in ffmpeg, which has its own huge assortment of flags that may
have been flipped.
(VLC has one of the most terrifying ebuilds I have ever seen. Now I
remember why I stick to mplayer. It saves the terror for its man page.)
E. Liddell
25 Jun
25 Jun
4:58 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] icons turn black
I don't know if I ought to be concerned or not about this new little glitch.
It just started this morning for no apparent reason.
About 1/4 of all my icons get turned black. This happens when I switch
screens, for example, but I can't get a screenshot of *that*; so the best I
can do to show what I mean is a screenshot inside one of my folders, where
you can see most of the icons are turned black.
Not all are turned black, however. I tried to find some common characteristic,
but there seems to be none. It is not just folder icons, or icons of
packages, or icons of a certain kind of file, or anything that I can tell.
This also occurs in icons when I am switching screens, or the view within
folders, and it also occurs in some of the icons that are incorporated within
the folder view -- for example, in the border of some windows.
It doesn't seem to affect anything else. It's just annoying, and I don't like
not knowing the cause, or how to fix it.
Any ideas what's causing this thing?
Bill
P.S. See attachment for a screenshot.
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1 Sep
1 Sep
12:20 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues
Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not of my own making; unless of
course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd devuan dissidents.
So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to connect; not
because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When I was running Jessie,
over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to fight it out,
and I couldn't figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh installation, I
would be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On the whole, I ended
up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at least I could connect,
and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of preference. One thing I
did notice, though, is that wicd somehow would assume root privileges, even
though I did not run it as root.
Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use tdenetworkmanager, but
now I get these error messages. I list them in order of discovery:
1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager
(Yeah, I knew that, but huh?)
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it is not going
to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
2 - Let's grab that dependency ...
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
3 - Let's try to build-dep ...
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it
is not going to be installed
Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable
4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager?
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it
is not going to be installed
Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not
installable
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run
tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force
installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at least has
always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when I've had issues with
tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of the past couple years. It may
be an issue with Debian, because technically TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster
packages, not Devuan Beowulf; they are the same, mostly, but not always.
Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go offline. When I
try, I usually find that I still have an active connection that won't die;
when I do succeed in going offline, after that I cannot get back online, but
must reboot in order to get a connection again.
My verdict is, something's wrong.
Bill
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12:30 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not of
my own making; unless of
course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd devuan dissidents.
So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to connect; not
because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When I was running Jessie,
over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to fight it out,
and I couldn't figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh installation, I
would be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On the whole, I ended
up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at least I could connect,
and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of preference. One thing I
did notice, though, is that wicd somehow would assume root privileges, even
though I did not run it as root.
Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use tdenetworkmanager, but
now I get these error messages. I list them in order of discovery:
1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager
(Yeah, I knew that, but huh?)
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it is not going
to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
2 - Let's grab that dependency ...
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
3 - Let's try to build-dep ...
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it
is not going to be installed
Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not installable
4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager?
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but it
is not going to be installed
Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not
installable
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run
tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force
installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at least has
always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when I've had issues with
tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of the past couple years. It may
be an issue with Debian, because technically TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster
packages, not Devuan Beowulf; they are the same, mostly, but not always.
Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go offline. When I
try, I usually find that I still have an active connection that won't die;
when I do succeed in going offline, after that I cannot get back online, but
must reboot in order to get a connection again.
My verdict is, something's wrong.
:)
tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I found when I
upgraded. But there should not be any systemd dependecy when you are on devuan. Could you
check if that you do not have accidentally activated some debian repository?
Nik
Bill
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--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
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12:55 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 05:30:03 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that is, for
Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
I could disable them unless I need a specific package; but I seem to recall
that apt would try to uninstall whatever it was, if the repo is not enabled.
deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
the repos for Vivaldi (but I could disable these unless I want to upgrade)
deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/snapshot/deb/ stable main
the Tor project
deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
deb-src http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
Maybe Trinity itself, as I wasn't sure whether to insert Buster or Beowulf. I
noticed some repositories seem to redirect, but others want it specified, one
or the other. When I read the instructions and comments on the wiki page, it
said something about devuan users should "just use debian", etc.
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster
main
deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian
buster main
deb
http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debi…
buster main
deb-src
http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debi…
buster main
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14
deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14
deps-r14
Bill
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Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not
of my own making;
unless of course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd devuan
dissidents.
So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to connect;
not because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When I was running
Jessie, over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to
fight it out, and I couldn't figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh
installation, I would be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On
the whole, I ended up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at
least I could connect, and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of
preference. One thing I did notice, though, is that wicd somehow would
assume root privileges, even though I did not run it as root.
Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use tdenetworkmanager,
but now I get these error messages. I list them in order of discovery:
1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager
(Yeah, I knew that, but huh?)
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it is not
going to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
2 - Let's grab that dependency ...
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
3 - Let's try to build-dep ...
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but
it is not going to be installed
Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not
installable
4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager?
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but
it is not going to be installed
Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not
installable
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run
tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force
installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at least
has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when I've had
issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of the past
couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because technically
TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan Beowulf; they are the
same, mostly, but not always.
Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go offline. When
I try, I usually find that I still have an active connection that won't
die; when I do succeed in going offline, after that I cannot get back
online, but must reboot in order to get a connection again.
My verdict is, something's wrong.
:)
tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I found
when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd dependecy when you are
on devuan. Could you check if that you do not have accidentally activated
some debian repository?
Nik
> Bill
>
>
>
>
1:39 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 05:30:03 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
So, I tried to change the Trinity repos from Buster to Beowulf, updated my
sources.list, and that didn't work at all. Trinity only recognizes Buster. I
also tried to "pin" the packages to Beowulf (using the option -t beowulf in
apt-get), to no avail.
The problem currently remains the same, as related below.
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that is, for
Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
I could disable them unless I need a specific package; but I seem to recall
that apt would try to uninstall whatever it was, if the repo is not enabled.
deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
the repos for Vivaldi (but I could disable these unless I want to upgrade)
deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/snapshot/deb/ stable main
the Tor project
deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
deb-src http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
Maybe Trinity itself, as I wasn't sure whether to insert Buster or Beowulf. I
noticed some repositories seem to redirect, but others want it specified, one
or the other. When I read the instructions and comments on the wiki page, it
said something about devuan users should "just use debian", etc.
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster
main
deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian
buster main
deb
http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debi…
buster main
deb-src
http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debi…
buster main
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14
deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14
deps-r14
Bill
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Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not
of my own making;
unless of course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd devuan
dissidents.
So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to connect;
not because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When I was running
Jessie, over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to
fight it out, and I couldn't figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh
installation, I would be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On
the whole, I ended up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at
least I could connect, and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of
preference. One thing I did notice, though, is that wicd somehow would
assume root privileges, even though I did not run it as root.
Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use tdenetworkmanager,
but now I get these error messages. I list them in order of discovery:
1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager
(Yeah, I knew that, but huh?)
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it is not
going to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
2 - Let's grab that dependency ...
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
3 - Let's try to build-dep ...
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but
it is not going to be installed
Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not
installable
4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager?
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but
it is not going to be installed
Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not
installable
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run
tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force
installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at least
has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when I've had
issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of the past
couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because technically
TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan Beowulf; they are the
same, mostly, but not always.
Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go offline. When
I try, I usually find that I still have an active connection that won't
die; when I do succeed in going offline, after that I cannot get back
online, but must reboot in order to get a connection again.
My verdict is, something's wrong.
:)
tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I found
when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd dependecy when you are
on devuan. Could you check if that you do not have accidentally activated
some debian repository?
Nik
> Bill
>
>
>
>
4:33 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 06:39:01 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 05:30:03 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
The Beowul repo for trinity is just a link to the Buster Repo. Just use Buster, it's
OK.
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
So, I tried to change the Trinity repos from Buster to Beowulf, updated my
sources.list, and that didn't work at all. Trinity only recognizes Buster. I
also tried to "pin" the packages to Beowulf (using the option -t beowulf in
apt-get), to no avail. Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not
of my own making;
unless of course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd devuan
dissidents.
So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to connect;
not because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When I was running
Jessie, over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to
fight it out, and I couldn't figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh
installation, I would be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On
the whole, I ended up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at
least I could connect, and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of
preference. One thing I did notice, though, is that wicd somehow would
assume root privileges, even though I did not run it as root.
Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use tdenetworkmanager,
but now I get these error messages. I list them in order of discovery:
1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager
(Yeah, I knew that, but huh?)
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it is not
going to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
2 - Let's grab that dependency ...
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
3 - Let's try to build-dep ...
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but
it is not going to be installed
Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not
installable
4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager?
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97) but
it is not going to be installed
Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not
installable
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run
tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force
installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at least
has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when I've had
issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of the past
couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because technically
TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan Beowulf; they are the
same, mostly, but not always.
Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go offline. When
I try, I usually find that I still have an active connection that won't
die; when I do succeed in going offline, after that I cannot get back
online, but must reboot in order to get a connection again.
My verdict is, something's wrong.
:)
tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I found
when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd dependecy when you are
on devuan. Could you check if that you do not have accidentally activated
some debian repository?
Nik
> Bill
>
>
>
>
The problem currently remains the same, as related below.
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that is, for
Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
Ok. That is most likely your troublemaker. You'll need to get rid of all packages from
that repo - that will cause some TDE packags to be removed, too, due to dependencies.
Identify one of the deb-multimedia packages, then use "apt-show-versions" (most
likely you'll need to install it first) and grep for the extensions. This is a
tediouse process, I've been through it a couple of times. The only thing you maybe
miss is libdvdcss2. I think I installed it from the sources.
Nik
I could disable them unless I need a specific package;
but I seem to recall
that apt would try to uninstall whatever it was, if the repo is not enabled.
deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
the repos for Vivaldi (but I could disable these unless I want to upgrade)
deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/snapshot/deb/ stable main
the Tor project
deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
deb-src http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
Maybe Trinity itself, as I wasn't sure whether to insert Buster or Beowulf. I
noticed some repositories seem to redirect, but others want it specified, one
or the other. When I read the instructions and comments on the wiki page, it
said something about devuan users should "just use debian", etc.
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster
main
deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian
buster main
deb
http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debi…
buster main
deb-src
http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debi…
buster main
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14
deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14
deps-r14
Bill
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7:25 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 09:33:08 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 06:39:01 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Nope. Nothing was installed from that repo (yet), and now it's disabled, once
again I updated the sources.list, but apt-get keeps returning the same
message:
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
Bill
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 05:30:03 Dr.
Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
The Beowul repo for trinity is just a link to the Buster Repo. Just use
Buster, it's OK.
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
So, I tried to change the Trinity repos from Buster to Beowulf, updated
my sources.list, and that didn't work at all. Trinity only recognizes
Buster. I also tried to "pin" the packages to Beowulf (using the option
-t beowulf in apt-get), to no avail. Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not
of my own making;
unless of course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd devuan
dissidents.
So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to
connect; not because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When I
was running Jessie, over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and
wicd seemed to fight it out, and I couldn't figure out the cause.
Sometimes, on a fresh installation, I would be able to use
tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On the whole, I ended up using wicd
about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at least I could connect, and had
no serious issues. It was more a matter of preference. One thing I
did notice, though, is that wicd somehow would assume root
privileges, even though I did not run it as root.
Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use
tdenetworkmanager, but now I get these error messages. I list them in
order of discovery:
1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager
(Yeah, I knew that, but huh?)
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it is
not going to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
2 - Let's grab that dependency ...
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
3 - Let's try to build-dep ...
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97)
but it is not going to be installed
Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not
installable
4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager?
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97)
but it is not going to be installed
Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not
installable
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to
run tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to
force installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at
least has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when
I've had issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of
the past couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because
technically TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan
Beowulf; they are the same, mostly, but not always.
Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go offline.
When I try, I usually find that I still have an active connection
that won't die; when I do succeed in going offline, after that I
cannot get back online, but must reboot in order to get a connection
again.
My verdict is, something's wrong.
:)
tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I found
when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd dependecy when you
are on devuan. Could you check if that you do not have accidentally
activated some debian repository?
Nik
> Bill The problem currently remains the same, as
related below.
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that is,
for Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
Ok. That is most likely your troublemaker. You'll need to get rid of all
packages from that repo - that will cause some TDE packags to be removed,
too, due to dependencies. Identify one of the deb-multimedia packages, then
use "apt-show-versions" (most likely you'll need to install it first) and
grep for the extensions. This is a tediouse process, I've been through it a
couple of times. The only thing you maybe miss is libdvdcss2. I think I
installed it from the sources.
Nik
> I could disable them unless I need a specific
package; but I seem to
> recall that apt would try to uninstall whatever it was, if the repo is
> not enabled. deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
> deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
>
> the repos for Vivaldi (but I could disable these unless I want to
> upgrade) deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/snapshot/deb/ stable main
>
>
> the Tor project
>
> deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
> deb-src http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
>
> Maybe Trinity itself, as I wasn't sure whether to insert Buster or
> Beowulf. I noticed some repositories seem to redirect, but others want it
> specified, one or the other. When I read the instructions and comments on
> the wiki page, it said something about devuan users should "just use
> debian", etc.
>
> deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian
> buster main
> deb-src
> http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian
> buster main
> deb
> http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/de
>bian buster main
> deb-src
> http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/de
>bian buster main
>
> deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14
> deps-r14 deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster
> main-r14 deps-r14
>
> Bill
>
>
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7:51 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 12:25:43 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 09:33:08 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Let's check: I get these dependencies for network-mananger. As you see, it's
homepage is the lore of GNOMEs, so it's deeply entangled with systemd. libsystemd0 is
a functionless wrapper (on devuan) and libpam-systemd is a dummy. If you want to use it,
you'll need these 2 packages, too. But I don't see systemd in my list.
$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show network-manager
Package: network-manager
Version: 1.14.6-2+deb10u1
State: installed
Automatically installed: yes
Priority: optional
Section: net
Maintainer: Utopia Maintenance Team
<pkg-utopia-maintainers(a)lists.alioth.debian.org>
Architecture: amd64
Uncompressed Size: 11,9 M
Depends: libaudit1 (>= 1:2.2.1), libbluetooth3 (>= 4.91), libc6 (>= 2.26),
libcurl3-gnutls (>= 7.16.3),
libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.43.2), libgnutls30 (>= 3.6.5), libjansson4 (>=
2.0.1), libmm-glib0 (>= 1.0.0),
libndp0 (>= 1.2), libnewt0.52 (>= 0.52.20), libnm0 (= 1.14.6-2+deb10u1),
libpolkit-agent-1-0 (>=
0.99), libpolkit-gobject-1-0 (>= 0.104), libpsl5 (>= 0.13.0), libreadline7
(>= 6.0), libselinux1 (>=
1.32), libsystemd0 (>= 221), libteamdctl0 (>= 1.9), libudev1 (>= 183),
libuuid1 (>= 2.16), lsb-base,
wpasupplicant, dbus, udev, adduser, libpam-systemd, policykit-1
PreDepends: init-system-helpers (>= 1.54~)
Recommends: ppp, dnsmasq-base, iptables, modemmanager, crda, isc-dhcp-client
Suggests: libteam-utils
Conflicts: network-manager:i386
Breaks: ppp (>= 2.4.7-3~), ppp:i386 (>= 2.4.7-3~), ppp (< 2.4.7-2+~), ppp:i386
(< 2.4.7-2+~)
Description: network management framework (daemon and userspace tools)
Homepage: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/NetworkManager
Tags: implemented-in::c, interface::daemon, network::configuration, protocol::dhcp,
protocol::ip,
role::program, use::configuring
nik@t61:~$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show libpam-systemd
No candidate version found for libpam-systemd
Package: libpam-systemd
State: not a real package
Provided by: libpam-elogind (241.4-2)
nik@t61:~$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show libsystemd0
Package: libsystemd0
Version: 241-7~deb10u4
State: not installed
Multi-Arch: same
Priority: optional
Section: libs
Maintainer: Debian systemd Maintainers
<pkg-systemd-maintainers(a)lists.alioth.debian.org>
Architecture: amd64
Uncompressed Size: 786 k
PreDepends: libc6 (>= 2.28), libgcrypt20 (>= 1.8.0), liblz4-1 (>= 0.0~r122),
liblzma5 (>= 5.1.1alpha+20120614)
Breaks: libsystemd0:i386 (!= 241-7~deb10u4)
Replaces: libsystemd0:i386 (< 241-7~deb10u4)
Provided by: libelogind0 (241.4-2)
Description: systemd utility library
Homepage: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd
Tags: role::shared-lib
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 06:39:01 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Nope. Nothing was installed from that repo (yet), and now it's disabled, once
again I updated the sources.list, but apt-get keeps returning the same
message:
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
Bill
> > I could disable them unless I need a specific package; but I seem to
> > recall that apt would try to uninstall whatever it was, if the repo is
> > not enabled. deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
> > deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
> >
> > the repos for Vivaldi (but I could disable these unless I want to
> > upgrade) deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/snapshot/deb/ stable main
> >
> >
> > the Tor project
> >
> > deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
> > deb-src http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
> >
> > Maybe Trinity itself, as I wasn't sure whether to insert Buster or
> > Beowulf. I noticed some repositories seem to redirect, but others want it
> > specified, one or the other. When I read the instructions and comments on
> > the wiki page, it said something about devuan users should "just use
> > debian", etc.
> >
> > deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian
> > buster main
> > deb-src
> > http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian
> > buster main
> > deb
> > http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/de
> >bian buster main
> > deb-src
> > http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/de
> >bian buster main
> >
> > deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14
> > deps-r14 deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster
> > main-r14 deps-r14
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > On Tuesday 01 September 2020 05:30:03 Dr.
Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
The Beowul repo for trinity is just a link to the Buster Repo. Just use
Buster, it's OK.
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
> Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not of my own making;
> unless of course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd devuan
> dissidents.
>
> So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to
> connect; not because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When I
> was running Jessie, over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and
> wicd seemed to fight it out, and I couldn't figure out the cause.
> Sometimes, on a fresh installation, I would be able to use
> tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On the whole, I ended up using wicd
> about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at least I could connect, and had
> no serious issues. It was more a matter of preference. One thing I
> did notice, though, is that wicd somehow would assume root
> privileges, even though I did not run it as root.
>
> Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use
> tdenetworkmanager, but now I get these error messages. I list them in
> order of discovery:
>
> 1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager
> (Yeah, I knew that, but huh?)
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it is
> not going to be installed
> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
> 2 - Let's grab that dependency ...
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
>
> 3 - Let's try to build-dep ...
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97)
> but it is not going to be installed
> Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not
> installable
>
> 4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager?
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>= 0.97)
> but it is not going to be installed
> Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not
> installable
> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
>
> So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to
> run tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to
> force installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
>
> I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at
> least has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when
> I've had issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of
> the past couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because
> technically TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan
> Beowulf; they are the same, mostly, but not always.
>
> Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go offline.
> When I try, I usually find that I still have an active connection
> that won't die; when I do succeed in going offline, after that I
> cannot get back online, but must reboot in order to get a connection
> again.
>
> My verdict is, something's wrong.
>
:)
tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I found
when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd dependecy when you
are on devuan. Could you check if that you do not have accidentally
activated some debian repository?
Nik
> Bill
So, I tried to change the Trinity repos from Buster to Beowulf, updated
my sources.list, and that didn't work at all. Trinity only recognizes
Buster. I also tried to "pin" the packages to Beowulf (using the option
-t beowulf in apt-get), to no avail. The problem currently remains the same, as
related below.
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that is,
for Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
Ok. That is most likely your troublemaker. You'll need to get rid of all
packages from that repo - that will cause some TDE packags to be removed,
too, due to dependencies. Identify one of the deb-multimedia packages, then
use "apt-show-versions" (most likely you'll need to install it first) and
grep for the extensions. This is a tediouse process, I've been through it a
couple of times. The only thing you maybe miss is libdvdcss2. I think I
installed it from the sources.
Nik
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7:59 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 12:51:40 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 12:25:43 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
That's all very interesting, but I still can't install the tdenetworkmanager.
:->
If it is just a wrapper, and not an actual package, then why can we have some
sort of wrapper-systemd-trinity to circumvent the issue? Or why does
tdenetworkmanager have to depend on outside packages at all?
As for wicd, it would be an adequate replacement in the meanwhile, but even
wicd is only half-working, since now I must reboot a few times every day,
just because I want to switch from online to offline, then switch back again.
Bill
Bill
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On Tuesday 01 September 2020 09:33:08 Dr.
Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Let's check: I get these dependencies for network-mananger. As you see,
it's homepage is the lore of GNOMEs, so it's deeply entangled with systemd.
libsystemd0 is a functionless wrapper (on devuan) and libpam-systemd is a
dummy. If you want to use it, you'll need these 2 packages, too. But I
don't see systemd in my list.
$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show network-manager
Package: network-manager
Version: 1.14.6-2+deb10u1
State: installed
Automatically installed: yes
Priority: optional
Section: net
Maintainer: Utopia Maintenance Team
<pkg-utopia-maintainers(a)lists.alioth.debian.org> Architecture: amd64
Uncompressed Size: 11,9 M
Depends: libaudit1 (>= 1:2.2.1), libbluetooth3 (>= 4.91), libc6 (>= 2.26),
libcurl3-gnutls (>= 7.16.3), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.43.2), libgnutls30 (>=
3.6.5), libjansson4 (>= 2.0.1), libmm-glib0 (>= 1.0.0), libndp0 (>= 1.2),
libnewt0.52 (>= 0.52.20), libnm0 (= 1.14.6-2+deb10u1), libpolkit-agent-1-0
(>= 0.99), libpolkit-gobject-1-0 (>= 0.104), libpsl5 (>= 0.13.0),
libreadline7 (>= 6.0), libselinux1 (>= 1.32), libsystemd0 (>= 221),
libteamdctl0 (>= 1.9), libudev1 (>= 183), libuuid1 (>= 2.16), lsb-base,
wpasupplicant, dbus, udev, adduser, libpam-systemd, policykit-1 PreDepends:
init-system-helpers (>= 1.54~)
Recommends: ppp, dnsmasq-base, iptables, modemmanager, crda,
isc-dhcp-client Suggests: libteam-utils
Conflicts: network-manager:i386
Breaks: ppp (>= 2.4.7-3~), ppp:i386 (>= 2.4.7-3~), ppp (< 2.4.7-2+~),
ppp:i386 (< 2.4.7-2+~) Description: network management framework (daemon
and userspace tools)
Homepage: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/NetworkManager
Tags: implemented-in::c, interface::daemon, network::configuration,
protocol::dhcp, protocol::ip, role::program, use::configuring
nik@t61:~$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show libpam-systemd
No candidate version found for libpam-systemd
Package: libpam-systemd
State: not a real package
Provided by: libpam-elogind (241.4-2)
nik@t61:~$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show libsystemd0
Package: libsystemd0
Version: 241-7~deb10u4
State: not installed
Multi-Arch: same
Priority: optional
Section: libs
Maintainer: Debian systemd Maintainers
<pkg-systemd-maintainers(a)lists.alioth.debian.org> Architecture: amd64
Uncompressed Size: 786 k
PreDepends: libc6 (>= 2.28), libgcrypt20 (>= 1.8.0), liblz4-1 (>=
0.0~r122), liblzma5 (>= 5.1.1alpha+20120614) Breaks: libsystemd0:i386 (!=
241-7~deb10u4)
Replaces: libsystemd0:i386 (< 241-7~deb10u4)
Provided by: libelogind0 (241.4-2)
Description: systemd utility library
Homepage: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd
Tags: role::shared-lib
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 06:39:01 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Nope. Nothing was installed from that repo (yet), and now it's disabled,
once again I updated the sources.list, but apt-get keeps returning the
same message:
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
Bill
> > I could disable them unless I need a specific package; but I seem to
> > recall that apt would try to uninstall whatever it was, if the repo
> > is not enabled. deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
> > deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
> >
> > the repos for Vivaldi (but I could disable these unless I want to
> > upgrade) deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/snapshot/deb/ stable main
> >
> >
> > the Tor project
> >
> > deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
> > deb-src http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
> >
> > Maybe Trinity itself, as I wasn't sure whether to insert Buster or
> > Beowulf. I noticed some repositories seem to redirect, but others
> > want it specified, one or the other. When I read the instructions and
> > comments on the wiki page, it said something about devuan users
> > should "just use debian", etc.
> >
> > deb
> > http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian
> > buster main
> > deb-src
> > http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian
> > buster main
> > deb
> > http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.
> >0/de bian buster main
> > deb-src
> > http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.
> >0/de bian buster main
> >
> > deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14
> > deps-r14 deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb
> > buster main-r14 deps-r14
> >
> > Bill On Tuesday 01 September 2020 05:30:03 Dr.
Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700
>
> William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
> > Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not of my own
> > making; unless of course you mean that I am one of those
> > no-systemd devuan dissidents.
> >
> > So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to
> > connect; not because I prefer it, but only because it's there.
> > When I was running Jessie, over the past few years
> > tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to fight it out, and I couldn't
> > figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh installation, I would
> > be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On the whole, I
> > ended up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at least I
> > could connect, and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of
> > preference. One thing I did notice, though, is that wicd somehow
> > would assume root privileges, even though I did not run it as
> > root.
> >
> > Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use
> > tdenetworkmanager, but now I get these error messages. I list
> > them in order of discovery:
> >
> > 1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager
> > (Yeah, I knew that, but huh?)
> > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it
> > is not going to be installed
> > E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
> > 2 - Let's grab that dependency ...
> > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
> >
> > 3 - Let's try to build-dep ...
> > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>=
> > 0.97) but it is not going to be installed
> > Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not
> > installable
> >
> > 4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager?
> > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>=
> > 0.97) but it is not going to be installed
> > Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is
> > not installable
> > E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
> >
> > So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order
> > to run tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line
> > voodoo to force installation, ignore held packages, all that good
> > stuff.
> >
> > I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at
> > least has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when
> > I've had issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4
> > of the past couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because
> > technically TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan
> > Beowulf; they are the same, mostly, but not always.
> >
> > Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go
> > offline. When I try, I usually find that I still have an active
> > connection that won't die; when I do succeed in going offline,
> > after that I cannot get back online, but must reboot in order to
> > get a connection again.
> >
> > My verdict is, something's wrong.
> >
> :)
>
> tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I
> found when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd
> dependecy when you are on devuan. Could you check if that you do
> not have accidentally activated some debian repository?
>
> Nik
>
> > Bill
So, I tried to change the Trinity repos from Buster to Beowulf,
updated my sources.list, and that didn't work at all. Trinity only
recognizes Buster. I also tried to "pin" the packages to Beowulf
(using the option -t beowulf in apt-get), to no avail.
The Beowul repo for trinity is just a link to the Buster Repo. Just use
Buster, it's OK.
The problem currently remains the same, as
related below.
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that
is, for Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
Ok. That is most likely your troublemaker. You'll need to get rid of
all packages from that repo - that will cause some TDE packags to be
removed, too, due to dependencies. Identify one of the deb-multimedia
packages, then use "apt-show-versions" (most likely you'll need to
install it first) and grep for the extensions. This is a tediouse
process, I've been through it a couple of times. The only thing you
maybe miss is libdvdcss2. I think I installed it from the sources.
Nik
8:04 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 12:59:58 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 12:51:40 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
This is also in my system:
# cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01norecommend
APT::Install-Recommends "false";
APT::Install-Suggests "false";
APT::AutoRemove::RecommendsImportant "false";
APT::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant "false";
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 12:25:43 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
That's all very interesting, but I still can't install the tdenetworkmanager.
:->
If it is just a wrapper, and not an actual package, then why can we have some
sort of wrapper-systemd-trinity to circumvent the issue? Or why does
tdenetworkmanager have to depend on outside packages at all?
As for wicd, it would be an adequate replacement in the meanwhile, but even
wicd is only half-working, since now I must reboot a few times every day,
just because I want to switch from online to offline, then switch back again.
Bill On Tuesday 01 September 2020 09:33:08 Dr.
Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Let's check: I get these dependencies for network-mananger. As you see,
it's homepage is the lore of GNOMEs, so it's deeply entangled with systemd.
libsystemd0 is a functionless wrapper (on devuan) and libpam-systemd is a
dummy. If you want to use it, you'll need these 2 packages, too. But I
don't see systemd in my list.
$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show network-manager
Package: network-manager
Version: 1.14.6-2+deb10u1
State: installed
Automatically installed: yes
Priority: optional
Section: net
Maintainer: Utopia Maintenance Team
<pkg-utopia-maintainers(a)lists.alioth.debian.org> Architecture: amd64
Uncompressed Size: 11,9 M
Depends: libaudit1 (>= 1:2.2.1), libbluetooth3 (>= 4.91), libc6 (>= 2.26),
libcurl3-gnutls (>= 7.16.3), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.43.2), libgnutls30 (>=
3.6.5), libjansson4 (>= 2.0.1), libmm-glib0 (>= 1.0.0), libndp0 (>= 1.2),
libnewt0.52 (>= 0.52.20), libnm0 (= 1.14.6-2+deb10u1), libpolkit-agent-1-0
(>= 0.99), libpolkit-gobject-1-0 (>= 0.104), libpsl5 (>= 0.13.0),
libreadline7 (>= 6.0), libselinux1 (>= 1.32), libsystemd0 (>= 221),
libteamdctl0 (>= 1.9), libudev1 (>= 183), libuuid1 (>= 2.16), lsb-base,
wpasupplicant, dbus, udev, adduser, libpam-systemd, policykit-1 PreDepends:
init-system-helpers (>= 1.54~)
Recommends: ppp, dnsmasq-base, iptables, modemmanager, crda,
isc-dhcp-client Suggests: libteam-utils
Conflicts: network-manager:i386
Breaks: ppp (>= 2.4.7-3~), ppp:i386 (>= 2.4.7-3~), ppp (< 2.4.7-2+~),
ppp:i386 (< 2.4.7-2+~) Description: network management framework (daemon
and userspace tools)
Homepage: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/NetworkManager
Tags: implemented-in::c, interface::daemon, network::configuration,
protocol::dhcp, protocol::ip, role::program, use::configuring
nik@t61:~$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show libpam-systemd
No candidate version found for libpam-systemd
Package: libpam-systemd
State: not a real package
Provided by: libpam-elogind (241.4-2)
nik@t61:~$ LANGUAGE=en aptitude show libsystemd0
Package: libsystemd0
Version: 241-7~deb10u4
State: not installed
Multi-Arch: same
Priority: optional
Section: libs
Maintainer: Debian systemd Maintainers
<pkg-systemd-maintainers(a)lists.alioth.debian.org> Architecture: amd64
Uncompressed Size: 786 k
PreDepends: libc6 (>= 2.28), libgcrypt20 (>= 1.8.0), liblz4-1 (>=
0.0~r122), liblzma5 (>= 5.1.1alpha+20120614) Breaks: libsystemd0:i386 (!=
241-7~deb10u4)
Replaces: libsystemd0:i386 (< 241-7~deb10u4)
Provided by: libelogind0 (241.4-2)
Description: systemd utility library
Homepage: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd
Tags: role::shared-lib
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 06:39:01 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
> On Tuesday 01 September 2020 05:30:03 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700
> >
> > William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
> > > Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not of my own
> > > making; unless of course you mean that I am one of those
> > > no-systemd devuan dissidents.
> > >
> > > So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using wicd to
> > > connect; not because I prefer it, but only because it's there.
> > > When I was running Jessie, over the past few years
> > > tdenetworkmanager and wicd seemed to fight it out, and I couldn't
> > > figure out the cause. Sometimes, on a fresh installation, I would
> > > be able to use tdenetworkmanager; sometimes not. On the whole, I
> > > ended up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But anyway, at least I
> > > could connect, and had no serious issues. It was more a matter of
> > > preference. One thing I did notice, though, is that wicd somehow
> > > would assume root privileges, even though I did not run it as
> > > root.
> > >
> > > Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use
> > > tdenetworkmanager, but now I get these error messages. I list
> > > them in order of discovery:
> > >
> > > 1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager
> > > (Yeah, I knew that, but huh?)
> > > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > > network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>= 0.7.0) but it
> > > is not going to be installed
> > > E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
> > > 2 - Let's grab that dependency ...
> > > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > > network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
> > >
> > > 3 - Let's try to build-dep ...
> > > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > > builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>=
> > > 0.97) but it is not going to be installed
> > > Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not
> > > installable
> > >
> > > 4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager?
> > > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > > builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev (>=
> > > 0.97) but it is not going to be installed
> > > Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is
> > > not installable
> > > E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
> > >
> > > So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in order
> > > to run tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line
> > > voodoo to force installation, ignore held packages, all that good
> > > stuff.
> > >
> > > I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which at
> > > least has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when
> > > I've had issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4
> > > of the past couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because
> > > technically TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan
> > > Beowulf; they are the same, mostly, but not always.
> > >
> > > Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go
> > > offline. When I try, I usually find that I still have an active
> > > connection that won't die; when I do succeed in going offline,
> > > after that I cannot get back online, but must reboot in order to
> > > get a connection again.
> > >
> > > My verdict is, something's wrong.
> > >
> > :)
> >
> > tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I
> > found when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd
> > dependecy when you are on devuan. Could you check if that you do
> > not have accidentally activated some debian repository?
> >
> > Nik
> >
> > > Bill
>
> So, I tried to change the Trinity repos from Buster to Beowulf,
> updated my sources.list, and that didn't work at all. Trinity only
> recognizes Buster. I also tried to "pin" the packages to Beowulf
> (using the option -t beowulf in apt-get), to no avail.
The Beowul repo for trinity is just a link to the Buster Repo. Just use
Buster, it's OK.
> The problem currently remains the same, as related below.
>
> Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
>
> Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that
> is, for Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
>
> deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
Ok. That is most likely your troublemaker. You'll need to get rid of
all packages from that repo - that will cause some TDE packags to be
removed, too, due to dependencies. Identify one of the deb-multimedia
packages, then use "apt-show-versions" (most likely you'll need to
install it first) and grep for the extensions. This is a tediouse
process, I've been through it a couple of times. The only thing you
maybe miss is libdvdcss2. I think I installed it from the sources.
Nik
Nope. Nothing was installed from that repo (yet), and now it's disabled,
once again I updated the sources.list, but apt-get keeps returning the
same message:
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
Bill
> > I could disable them unless I need a specific package; but I seem to
> > recall that apt would try to uninstall whatever it was, if the repo
> > is not enabled. deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
> > deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
> >
> > the repos for Vivaldi (but I could disable these unless I want to
> > upgrade) deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/snapshot/deb/ stable main
> >
> >
> > the Tor project
> >
> > deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
> > deb-src http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
> >
> > Maybe Trinity itself, as I wasn't sure whether to insert Buster or
> > Beowulf. I noticed some repositories seem to redirect, but others
> > want it specified, one or the other. When I read the instructions and
> > comments on the wiki page, it said something about devuan users
> > should "just use debian", etc.
> >
> > deb
> > http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian
> > buster main
> > deb-src
> > http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian
> > buster main
> > deb
> > http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.
> >0/de bian buster main
> > deb-src
> > http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.
> >0/de bian buster main
> >
> > deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14
> > deps-r14 deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb
> > buster main-r14 deps-r14
> >
> > Bill
Bill
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7:51 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
On Tuesday 01 of September 2020 21:25:43 William Morder via trinity-users
via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 09:33:08 Dr. Nikolaus
Klepp wrote:
I did make the arrangements so that I could create a built-root for Beowulf
and test how it is with the network-manager package.
I can confirm that network-manager does contain a dependency on
libpam-systemd. However, it is clear that this dependency can be met by
installing the libpam-elogind package. To my surprise, libpam-elogind
reported a missing dependency because the required libelogind0 package
conflicted with the installed libsystemd0. After replacing libsystemd0
with libelogind0, it was possible to continue.
Note: For just such cases, I use aptitude in interactive mode, because
everything can be elegantly found and solved there.
.
.
The Beowul repo for trinity is just a link to the Buster Repo. Just
use Buster, it's OK.
Nope. Nothing was installed from that repo (yet), and now it's disabled,
once again I updated the sources.list, but apt-get keeps returning the
same message:
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
The problem currently remains the same, as
related below.
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except,
that is, for Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
Ok. That is most likely your troublemaker. You'll need to get rid of
all packages from that repo - that will cause some TDE packags to be
removed, too, due to dependencies. Identify one of the deb-multimedia
packages, then use "apt-show-versions" (most likely you'll need to
install it first) and grep for the extensions. This is a tediouse
process, I've been through it a couple of times. The only thing you
maybe miss is libdvdcss2. I think I installed it from the sources.
Nik Bill
Cheers
--
Slávek
8:20 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 12:51:54 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Nope. Nothing was installed from that repo (yet), and now it's disabled,
once again I updated the sources.list, but apt-get keeps returning the
same message:
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
quoted
#######
I did make the arrangements so that I could create a built-root for Beowulf
and test how it is with the network-manager package.
I can confirm that network-manager does contain a dependency on
libpam-systemd. However, it is clear that this dependency can be met by
installing the libpam-elogind package. To my surprise, libpam-elogind
reported a missing dependency because the required libelogind0 package
conflicted with the installed libsystemd0. After replacing libsystemd0
with libelogind0, it was possible to continue.
Note: For just such cases, I use aptitude in interactive mode, because
everything can be elegantly found and solved there.
#######
I don't normally use aptitude or other tools like it (synaptic, etc.). Since I
started using apt-get, I have quite forgotten how they even work. But I
suppose I could give it a try.
libelogind0
NOTE: For some reason, none of the text of Slavek's message was copied into
this reply, except the two lines quoted above. I have copied and pasted
below, just to provide context.
Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except,
that is, for Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
Ok. That is most likely your troublemaker. You'll need to get rid of
all packages from that repo - that will cause some TDE packags to be
removed, too, due to dependencies. Identify one of the deb-multimedia
packages, then use "apt-show-versions" (most likely you'll need to
install it first) and grep for the extensions. This is a tediouse
process, I've been through it a couple of times. The only thing you
maybe miss is libdvdcss2. I think I installed it from the sources.
Nik Bill
Cheers
--
Sl�vek
Okay, so that did work, and I now have network-manager-tde and
network-manager, so that's great.
Now, on the down side, gufw was removed, which leaves me without a gui
firewall. (There was an earlier discussion about this matter, firestarter
being replaced by gufw.
gufw : Depends: gir1.2-webkit-3.0 but it is not going to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
I could stick with just plain ufw, but as I explained, I want to see my
connections in real time.)
Two steps forward, one step back.
Bill
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11:35 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
On Tuesday 01 of September 2020 22:20:24 William Morder via trinity-users
via tde-users wrote:
Okay, so that did work, and I now have
network-manager-tde and
network-manager, so that's great.
Now, on the down side, gufw was removed, which leaves me without a gui
firewall. (There was an earlier discussion about this matter,
firestarter being replaced by gufw.
gufw : Depends: gir1.2-webkit-3.0 but it is not going to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
I could stick with just plain ufw, but as I explained, I want to see my
connections in real time.)
Two steps forward, one step back.
Bill
On my test machine in Devuan Beowulf I see gufw version 18.10.0, which
depends on gir1.2-webkit2-4.0 - everything available, no conflict
preventing installation.
Cheers
--
Slávek
6:58 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 6:39 AM, William Morder via trinity-users
<trinity-users(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Tuesday 01 September 2020 05:30:03 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
>
> > Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 05:20:27 -0700
> > William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
> >
> > > Another new problem, and I swear, this one is not of my own
making;
> > > unless of course you mean that I am one of those no-systemd
devuan
> > > dissidents.
> > > So far, in my new Beowulf installation, I've been using
wicd to connect;
> > > not because I prefer it, but only because it's there. When
I was running
> > > Jessie, over the past few years tdenetworkmanager and wicd
seemed to
> > > fight it out, and I couldn't figure out the cause.
Sometimes, on a fresh
> > > installation, I would be able to use tdenetworkmanager;
sometimes not. On
> > > the whole, I ended up using wicd about 3/4 of the time. But
anyway, at
> > > least I could connect, and had no serious issues. It was more a
matter of
> > > preference. One thing I did notice, though, is that wicd
somehow would
> > > assume root privileges, even though I did not run it as root.
> > > Anyway, so in my new installation, I would like to use
tdenetworkmanager,
> > > but now I get these error messages. I list them in order of
discovery:
> > > 1 - network-manager-tde depends on network-manager
> > > (Yeah, I knew that, but huh?)
> > > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > > network-manager-tde : Depends: network-manager (>=
0.7.0) but it is not
> > > going to be installed
> > > E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
> > > 2 - Let's grab that dependency ...
> > > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > > network-manager : Depends: libpam-systemd
> > > 3 - Let's try to build-dep ...
> > > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > > builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev
(>= 0.97) but
> > > it is not going to be installed
> > > Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not
> > > installable
> > > 4 - Why can't I build-dep for network-manager?
> > > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > > builddeps:network-manager : Depends: libpolkit-agent-1-dev
(>= 0.97) but
> > > it is not going to be installed
> > > Depends: systemd (>= 185) but it is not
> > > installable
> > > E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
> > > So the only answer I get is that I must install systemd in
order to run
> > > tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line
voodoo to force
> > > installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
> > > I would just give up for the present, and rely on wicd, which
at least
> > > has always worked pretty well. It's been my #2 choice, when
I've had
> > > issues with tdenetworkmanager, which has been about 3/4 of the
past
> > > couple years. It may be an issue with Debian, because
technically
> > > TDE-Trinity uses Debian Buster packages, not Devuan Beowulf;
they are the
> > > same, mostly, but not always.
> > > Now my problem is, once I go online, thereafter I cannot go
offline. When
> > > I try, I usually find that I still have an active connection
that won't
> > > die; when I do succeed in going offline, after that I cannot
get back
> > > online, but must reboot in order to get a connection again.
> > > My verdict is, something's wrong.
> >
> > :)
> > tdenetworkmanager works on beowulf, wicd does not - that's what I
found
> > when I upgraded. But there should not be any systemd dependecy when you
are
> > on devuan. Could you check if that you do not have accidentally
activated
> > some debian repository?
> > Nik
> >
> > > Bill
>
> So, I tried to change the Trinity repos from Buster to Beowulf, updated my
> sources.list, and that didn't work at all. Trinity only recognizes Buster. I
> also tried to "pin" the packages to Beowulf (using the option -t
beowulf in
> apt-get), to no avail.
>
> The problem currently remains the same, as related below.
>
> Hi Nik! Thanks for your help.
>
> Buster is named only for some oddball third-party stuff; except, that is, for
> Trinity-TDE repos themselves (for which, see below).
>
> deb-multimedia repos (for ? I forget)
> I could disable them unless I need a specific package; but I seem to recall
> that apt would try to uninstall whatever it was, if the repo is not enabled.
> deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
> deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org stable main
>
> the repos for Vivaldi (but I could disable these unless I want to upgrade)
> deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/snapshot/deb/ stable main
>
> the Tor project
>
> deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
> deb-src http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org buster stable main
>
> Maybe Trinity itself, as I wasn't sure whether to insert Buster or Beowulf.
I
> noticed some repositories seem to redirect, but others want it specified, one
> or the other. When I read the instructions and comments on the wiki page, it
> said something about devuan users should "just use debian", etc.
>
> deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian buster
> main
> deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian
> buster main
> deb
> http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debi…
> buster main
> deb-src
> http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debi…
> buster main
>
> deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14 deps-r14
> deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster main-r14
> deps-r14
>
> Bill
1. I used debmultimedia for one app, libdvdcss, disabled it afterwards. I use dselect, it
shows up as an obsolete pkg, does not offer to revove pkg. debmultimedia caused me to many
problens.
2.Held packages(s). I used apt-preferences to manage versions of apps, helped me keep
track of versions.
3. No viscious depends/remove cycles with network-manager-(tde) here, my tdebase install
uses devuans default wicad. I do not have network-manager-tde installed on any of my TDE
installs, use network-manager
greg
7:45 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 11:58:38 greg wrote:
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 6:39 AM, William Morder via trinity-users
<trinity-users(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net> wrote:
1. I used debmultimedia for one app, libdvdcss, disabled it afterwards. I
use dselect, it shows up as an obsolete pkg, does not offer to revove pkg.
debmultimedia caused me to many problens.
2.Held packages(s). I used apt-preferences to manage versions of apps,
helped me keep track of versions.
3. No viscious depends/remove cycles with network-manager-(tde) here, my
tdebase install uses devuans default wicad. I do not have
network-manager-tde installed on any of my TDE installs, use
network-manager
greg
I cannot install network-manager; that's why I can't install
network-manager-tde, which depends on network-manager.
It is network-manager that calls for systemd.
Bill
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7:53 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 1 Sep 12:45:07 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 11:58:38 greg wrote:
I have it, but I have not installed anything systemd - might be that I used some black
magic:
$ dpkg -l|grep systemd
$ dpkg -l|grep network-manager
ii network-manager 1.14.6-2+deb10u1
amd64 network management framework (daemon and userspace tools)
ii network-manager-tde
4:14.0.9~pre18-0debian10.0.0+0 amd64 TDE systray applet for
controlling networking [Trinity]
Nik
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 6:39 AM, William Morder via trinity-users
<trinity-users(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net> wrote:
1. I used debmultimedia for one app, libdvdcss, disabled it afterwards. I
use dselect, it shows up as an obsolete pkg, does not offer to revove pkg.
debmultimedia caused me to many problens.
2.Held packages(s). I used apt-preferences to manage versions of apps,
helped me keep track of versions.
3. No viscious depends/remove cycles with network-manager-(tde) here, my
tdebase install uses devuans default wicad. I do not have
network-manager-tde installed on any of my TDE installs, use
network-manager
greg
I cannot install network-manager; that's why I can't install
network-manager-tde, which depends on network-manager.
It is network-manager that calls for systemd.
Bill
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2 Sep
2 Sep
2:14 a.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 12:45 PM, William Morder via trinity-users
<trinity-users(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net> wrote:
> On Tuesday 01 September 2020 11:58:38 greg wrote:
> > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> > On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 6:39 AM, William Morder via trinity-users
> > trinity-users(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net wrote:
> > 2.Held packages(s). I used apt-preferences to manage versions of apps,
> > helped me keep track of versions.
>
> > greg
> I cannot install network-manager; that's why I can't install
> network-manager-tde, which depends on network-manager.
> It is network-manager that calls for systemd.
> Bill
There is not a dependacy issue with network-manager/tde on my vanilla install of
Devuan/TDE. network-manager does not require "systemd", yes it is a Redhat app,
home of systemd.
My take away is you have a mixed system with , holds, -force, debmultimedia. Your issues
probably lay there.
greg
> 1. I used debmultimedia for one app, libdvdcss,
disabled it afterwards. I
> use dselect, it shows up as an obsolete pkg, does not offer to revove pkg.
> debmultimedia caused me to many problens.
>
> > 3. No viscious depends/remove cycles with
network-manager-(tde) here, my
> tdebase install uses devuans default wicad. I do not have
> network-manager-tde installed on any of my TDE installs, use
> network-manager
>
>
5:55 a.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 19:14:57 greg wrote:
Nope, I have been playing nice, so far. When I first upgraded, I preserved my
old repo lists, and only changed the lines from jessie to beowulf or buster.
(I never did get networking to work at all in ascii/stretch. The change to
beowulf/buster has been a breeze by comparison, yet still there are a few
issues.) But I think I brought in some sid packages by accident, which were
good when running an old jessie system; but buster isn't so far progressed in
its development cycle, I believe. When I got that sorted out, things went
smoothly, and I was up and running a TDE devuan beowulf system within less
than two hours. (It used to take at least five hours, sometimes a day or
two.) This is a big improvement.
Speaking of which, I managed to get these packages installed, but then had no
network. I checked /etc/network/interfaces settings, but the only thing
different there is that wlan0 got changed to auto wlx*** [a long string of
numbers follow]. Otherwise, I've been running more or less the same system
since about 2015, network settings never changed. But as I said earlier --
about 3/4 of the time I cannot use tdenetworkmanager, and end up falling back
on some version of wicd.
Same thing with using network-manager and network-manager-tde packages: that
has never been an issue before now. Once I get something that works, I tend
to stick with it, but now suddenly there is some pseudo-systemd dependency?
And that's where I am now, back to wicd after messing round with
network-manager and network-manager-tde. I managed to get my network managers
installed, but they can't seem to manage the job. Anyway, wicd is behaving
something like normal again, except that now it won't use my system colors.
As long as I can keep a stable network connection, I will move on to the
firewall, and see how to get gufw to use my old firestarter rules, which is
supposed to be based on iptables.
Otherwise, my system runs pretty well; not quite as near-perfectly as my old
jessie system, but it's getting better. I'm just mystified why I should have
these problems, when nothing has changed. And as Slavek and others point out,
they don't have any issues in running tdenetworkmanager and network-manager
in a Devuan system.
Bill
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‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 12:45 PM, William Morder via trinity-users
<trinity-users(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net> wrote:
On Tuesday 01
September 2020 11:58:38 greg wrote:
There is not a dependacy issue with network-manager/tde on my vanilla
install of Devuan/TDE. network-manager does not require "systemd", yes it
is a Redhat app, home of systemd.
My take away is you have a mixed system with , holds, -force,
debmultimedia. Your issues probably lay there.
greg ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 6:39 AM, William Morder via trinity-users
trinity-users(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net wrote:
1. I used debmultimedia for one app, libdvdcss, disabled it
afterwards. I use dselect, it shows up as an obsolete pkg, does not
offer to revove pkg. debmultimedia caused me to many problens.
2.Held packages(s). I used apt-preferences to manage versions of apps,
helped me keep track of versions.
3. No viscious depends/remove cycles with network-manager-(tde) here,
my tdebase install uses devuans default wicad. I do not have
network-manager-tde installed on any of my TDE installs, use
network-manager
greg
I cannot install network-manager; that's why I can't install
network-manager-tde, which depends on network-manager.
It is network-manager that calls for systemd.
Bill
2:24 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
On Wednesday 02 September 2020 12:55:25 am William Morder via trinity-users
wrote:
When I first upgraded, I preserved
my old repo lists, and only changed the lines from jessie to beowulf or
buster.
Hi Bill,
I admit I’ve only skimmed a few of these, so if this is a duplicate question,
apologies...
You ‘upgraded’ from jessie to buster? As in something like ‘apt-get
dist-upgrade’?
AFAIK there was no upgrade path for that, it was a wipe the disk and clean
install of buster. Including, if the dist didn’t have a preserve /home
option, the normal user account juggles.
That would explain the odd issues though???
Best,
Michael
* Obviously dist’s vary, maybe yours has an upgrade path?
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3:09 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
On Wednesday 02 September 2020 07:24:46 Michael wrote:
On Wednesday 02 September 2020 12:55:25 am William
Morder via trinity-users
wrote:
No, but I did try to upgrade from jessie to ascii/stretch. That didn't work so
well, so then I tried just a fresh installation of ascii/stretch, which still
yielded the same results -- namely that my network was unusable. But I
believe the longer version of the story is probably true, as well; which is,
when I first built my jessie system, I was migrating from Kubuntu with the
KDE3 desktop; and in the process a lot of KDE4/5 stuff got caught up, because
KDE doesn't want to let me go. So I had some unwanted baggage to get rid of,
or to adapt to TDE. It took me a while to figure out that KDE was no longer
my friend.
When I first upgraded, I preserved
my old repo lists, and only changed the lines from jessie to beowulf or
buster.
Hi Bill,
I admit I’ve only skimmed a few of these, so if this is a duplicate
question, apologies...
You ‘upgraded’ from jessie to buster? As in something like ‘apt-get
dist-upgrade’?
AFAIK there was no upgrade path for that, it was a
wipe the disk and clean
install of buster. Including, if the dist didn’t have a preserve /home
option, the normal user account juggles.
That would explain the odd issues though???
Best,
Michael
* Obviously dist’s vary, maybe yours has an upgrade path?
When I installed Beowulf/Buster, I did a fresh installation, on a brand-new
SSD drive, then I overwrote my configuration files one-at-a-time until I got
everything like I wanted. I have a hard drive docking station, so I could
hook up my old hard drive, with my old partition, and take my time in
selecting what to overwrite. (My usual method is quick and dirty: just copy
over my old home folder into the new partition, but that's how I ended up
with the KDE4/5 krap.)
So now I have a Devuan Beowulf system with TDE Buster, and no weird stuff, no
force-installing third-party packages from dodgy repos like deb-multimedia,
etc. (I usually keep those lines commented out, unless I am looking for
something specific.)
I believe the only missed step was that I was not careful about a couple of
sid repos (because I just did a find-and-replace to change the repos). When I
tried to upgrade or whatever, I must have brought in packages that were
unstable. If you are running a version that is early in its development
cycle, then (so I hear) the sid packages tend to be buggier; if it is later
in the cycle, when Beowulf/Buster is moved into old-stable and then
eventually archived (which is where Jessie has recently gone), that's when
the sid packages tend to run better, because they are the basis for the new
release. At least that is what I have read, when doing research, and it seems
to hold true in my experience, on my own system.
Sorry to make this seem more complicated than it really is. The main idea is,
I have been running more or less the same system, same desktop, same look,
same organization of files, folders, etc., since 2005, when I first started
running Linux. And -- because that's how I keep my life and work and various
creative projects organized -- I want to keep my system pretty much the same,
where possible.
Life is short, and getting shorter for me. I don't have time to keep
reinventing the wheel or to discover fire all over again.
Thanks to everybody for their help and suggestions. Even if I disagree
sometimes, or seem like an unreasonable crank, it helps me in my ultimate
goal of TOTAL WORLD DOMINATION.
Bill
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4:34 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues - update
On Wednesday 02 September 2020 10:09:59 am William Morder via trinity-users
wrote:
it helps me in my ultimate
goal of TOTAL WORLD DOMINATION.
In the quest to help you meet your goals, if you have time, maybe try this?
These are my general steps in moving to a new ‘dist’ (or in this case going
from jessie or stretch to buster):
(hopefully you already have these somewhere, or you can create it off the old
drive.)
- Tarball existing /home/user dir, copy it to something external {old-home}.
- Tarball existing /root dir, copy it to something external {old-root}.
- With a User name you’ve never used before {tempuser}, do a clean, wipe the
disk install.
- Install TDE
- Login to {tempuser}
- Install all the other packages you need/use. [1]
- - Use whatever are the new instructions for the new ‘dist’ (e.g. buster)
- Unpack the {old-root} tarball on /root/oldroot.
- - Fix root as desired (.bashrc, /root/bin, etc.)
- Unpack the {old-home} tarball on /home/{origuser}
- Through a GUI tool, create a new User {origuser} [2]
!^! You want the system to do all it’s vodoo of creating a new user, which
includes adding all the X and other configs.
- Login to {origuser}
You should have a complete working system, with minimal ‘extra’ setup(s)
needed after this. [2] Creating a new user generally does not stomp on
application configs, so Konqueror (etc.) should all work exactly the same.
Hope that helps!
Michael
[1] Definitely debatable, but I’ve generally had better luck when everything I
use was already installed. My guess is the ‘create new User’ part does some
extra ‘stuff’ for those packages? But that’s a complete WAG on my part.
[2]
- This might take a good bit of time as it’s most likely having to chown
everything to the new user:group.
- You’ll possibly need to do a manual, mass chown for files outside
of /home/{origuser} as well.
[3]
- System wide things (file associations?) will need fixing though.
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1 Sep
1 Sep
3:22 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues
On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 05:20:27 -0700
"William Morder via trinity-users"
<trinity-users(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net> wrote:
So the only answer I get is that I must install
systemd in order to run
tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force
installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
As a last resort, compile networkmanager yourself? systemd appears to be
a strictly optional dependency (for some optional functionality, you need one of
systemd, elogind, or consolekit).
E. Liddell
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4:04 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde - dependency issues
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 08:22:44 E. Liddell wrote:
I just experimented with Slavek's PSB and PTB repos, but I get the same
results, no matter what.
If all else fails, I could probably use dpkg to force-install an older/newer
version of the package (from stretch or bullseye?), just to see if I can make
it work. It would probably work as a standalone package without systemd if I
used the stretch version (just a hunch, based on past experience); I've done
this with a few problematic items, and they often run just fine, but then
when I try to install something else or upgrade, the system wants to remove
them.
As I am still new to beowulf/buster, I am trying to play nice, follow the
rules, and avoid anything too weird. Once I know it better, I'll find a way
to make it do what I want.
Maybe Slavek will get drawn into this discussion. I feel sure that he gets the
no-systemd crowd.
Bill
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On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 05:20:27 -0700
"William Morder via trinity-users"
<trinity-users(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net> wrote:
So the only
answer I get is that I must install systemd in order to run
tdenetworkmanager? I've already tried some command-line voodoo to force
installation, ignore held packages, all that good stuff.
As a last resort, compile networkmanager yourself? systemd appears to be
a strictly optional dependency (for some optional functionality, you need
one of systemd, elogind, or consolekit).
E. Liddell
8:07 p.m.
New subject: [users] network-manager-tde - dependency issues
On 2020-09-01 07:20:27 you wrote:
I would just give up for the present, and rely on
wicd, which at least has
always worked pretty well.
I hated network-manager when it replaced the plain-ol' way; it was unreliable
and (originally at least) started and stopped the connection whenever I
logged in/out accounts. (Why would I want my network connection dropped just
because I logged out of my account? Maybe there are others active on the
system?) Anyway, wicked, like the pre-network-manager way, just works. I'd
say you're going in the right direction.
Leslie
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11:40 p.m.
New subject: network-manager-tde versus gufw - a success story
So at last it came down to this, the need to pick one or the other, but not
both. I followed Slavek's recommendations, and managed to install packages
that provided the systemd-type stuff that was needed for network-manager;
thus I was able to install network-manager-tde, as well.
But now I was bummed out, because I couldn't get gufw, couldn't have
firestarter any more, couldn't have a gui firewall. I still had to figure out
the inner workings of gufw, but it seemed my best hope of a firewall.
Then it occurred to me ... I still have the packages for gufw, as well as the
required dependencies ... evil thoughts were brewing ... time to work some
forbidden self-hacking black magic!
So I used dpkg and installed the firewall packages that I had already saved;
to wit:
firewalld
gufw
ifupdown
policykit
python3
python3-gi
python-ufw
ufw
Mind you, ifupdown is a package for the network; but when I originally
installed firewall packages, it somehow got caught up in the dependencies or
recommendations. Then, in keeping with my habit, I moved the packages to a
safe location:
sudo mv -v -f /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb -t /media/<my_safe_location>
and changed permissions in that folder, so that I could work with them, move
them around to other folders, and so on (chown and chgrp).
I started doing this because Internet was spotty, or because I worked in
different locations a lot, or sometimes just because my networking was
problematic, and packages can't be downloaded if you can't connect. But if
you have them saved somewhere, no problem. (Yes, I know they say to prefer
downloading from the repository, but you can always update later, once you
actually get your system running!)
And it all ends with everybody living happily ever after: Once I got not only
tdenetworkmanager and network-manager installed, as well as gufw, I ran sudo
apt-get -f install, just to see if it would try uninstalling something, and
everything is just fine.
So, if this helps anybody who wants to do the same, there you go. As I said, I
would eventually get my system to do what I wanted. Now if we could make it
so that the pseudo-conflict with systemd goes away (since it is only
apparent, from what I can tell), that would be nice. But at least there is a
possible way to work around it.
Bill
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3 Sep
3 Sep
2:57 p.m.
New subject: how to get tdenetworkmanager - with no wicd ?
While I have Internet, of a sort, I still have a few glitches; for example, I
cannot go offline, then go online again. Somehow, wicd either auto-connects
to my wifi network; when instead, I want to enable wifi, then look at the
available network choices, because my local network has several nodes or
access points within the building where I live, and somehow it doesn't always
choose the strongest or closest signal. I have an access point right outside
my door, yet autoconnect seems to avoid it.
But when I try to disconnect, sometimes wicd seems to hang on, and show me
still connected, yet I can't download emails or go online for other stuff.
When I run macchanger, it keeps showing me that my mac address changes; and I
run knetstats-trinity (which is a nice simple gui tool) and it shows my
wireless is connected then disconnected, shows activity then no activity; yet
in reality, I can't go online. So my only recourse at this point is to
reboot.
When I tried to get tdenetworkmanager to run, I had those problems already
discussed earlier. I managed to download the packages and dependencies to
install network-manager-tde without systemd, so it all *seems* like it ought
to work out right, but I always end up going back to wicd; which, again, is
only sort of half-working at the moment, and I must keep rebooting.
How would I go about pruning away the wicd stuff that I don't want, and
keeping only the tdenetworkmanager and required dependencies, etc.? I've
search apt-get, but I believe that I already have all the dependencies and
recommends. I can't think what else I might have missed.
Bill
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5:01 p.m.
New subject: how to get tdenetworkmanager - with no wicd ?
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 07:57:03 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
While I have Internet, of a sort, I still have a few glitches; for example, I
cannot go offline, then go online again. Somehow, wicd either auto-connects
to my wifi network; when instead, I want to enable wifi, then look at the
available network choices, because my local network has several nodes or
access points within the building where I live, and somehow it doesn't always
choose the strongest or closest signal. I have an access point right outside
my door, yet autoconnect seems to avoid it.
But when I try to disconnect, sometimes wicd seems to hang on, and show me
still connected, yet I can't download emails or go online for other stuff.
When I run macchanger, it keeps showing me that my mac address changes; and I
run knetstats-trinity (which is a nice simple gui tool) and it shows my
wireless is connected then disconnected, shows activity then no activity; yet
in reality, I can't go online. So my only recourse at this point is to
reboot.
When I tried to get tdenetworkmanager to run, I had those problems already
discussed earlier. I managed to download the packages and dependencies to
install network-manager-tde without systemd, so it all *seems* like it ought
to work out right, but I always end up going back to wicd; which, again, is
only sort of half-working at the moment, and I must keep rebooting.
How would I go about pruning away the wicd stuff that I don't want, and
keeping only the tdenetworkmanager and required dependencies, etc.? I've
search apt-get, but I believe that I already have all the dependencies and
recommends. I can't think what else I might have missed.
Bill
Just my experience: eiter use wicd (and uninstall network-manager) or use networkmanager
(and uninstall wicd).
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5:27 p.m.
New subject: how to get tdenetworkmanager - with no wicd ?
On Thursday 03 September 2020 10:01:53 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 07:57:03 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Yeah, that's where I think I am headed. I already spent most of the past two
years using wicd instead of tdenetworkmanager. I just keep hoping that I will
get a different answer, so I ask the fortune teller to give me another
reading, and then another ...
I would be okay with using wicd instead; no problem. But now when I go
offline, wicd doesn't offer me "options" -- that is, it looks like it hangs
on, like it's still online, and I cannot get back online without rebooting.
Maybe I should run wicd as root? I don't like to do that. Usually wicd doesn't
behave in this manner, which I why I'm bothered.
I am not in control of my network connection -- as proved by the fact that I
can't go online/offline or offline/online without rebooting. This is what is
driving me crazy.
If anybody is annoyed by my complaints, and failure to resolve my own issues,
please be patient with me, and remember that I never had any problems with my
network itself for the past few years. I would bounce between
tdenetworkmanager and wicd, it's true, but my network connection was stable,
and I felt in control. I had other problems, yes, but this is different.
Bill
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While I have Internet, of a sort, I still have a
few glitches; for
example, I cannot go offline, then go online again. Somehow, wicd either
auto-connects to my wifi network; when instead, I want to enable wifi,
then look at the available network choices, because my local network has
several nodes or access points within the building where I live, and
somehow it doesn't always choose the strongest or closest signal. I have
an access point right outside my door, yet autoconnect seems to avoid it.
But when I try to disconnect, sometimes wicd seems to hang on, and show
me still connected, yet I can't download emails or go online for other
stuff. When I run macchanger, it keeps showing me that my mac address
changes; and I run knetstats-trinity (which is a nice simple gui tool)
and it shows my wireless is connected then disconnected, shows activity
then no activity; yet in reality, I can't go online. So my only recourse
at this point is to reboot.
When I tried to get tdenetworkmanager to run, I had those problems
already discussed earlier. I managed to download the packages and
dependencies to install network-manager-tde without systemd, so it all
*seems* like it ought to work out right, but I always end up going back
to wicd; which, again, is only sort of half-working at the moment, and I
must keep rebooting.
How would I go about pruning away the wicd stuff that I don't want, and
keeping only the tdenetworkmanager and required dependencies, etc.? I've
search apt-get, but I believe that I already have all the dependencies
and recommends. I can't think what else I might have missed.
Bill
Just my experience: eiter use wicd (and uninstall network-manager) or use
networkmanager (and uninstall wicd).
7:26 p.m.
New subject: how to get tdenetworkmanager - with no wicd ?
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 10:27:43 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Thursday 03 September 2020 10:01:53 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
the deamon part of wicd runs as root, your gui client communicates with that daemon.
there's also a wicd-cli for pure hearted.
btw, what's in your /etc/netwok/interfaces? since beowulf/buster anything but
"lo" will give trouble.
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 07:57:03 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Yeah, that's where I think I am headed. I already spent most of the past two
years using wicd instead of tdenetworkmanager. I just keep hoping that I will
get a different answer, so I ask the fortune teller to give me another
reading, and then another ...
I would be okay with using wicd instead; no problem. But now when I go
offline, wicd doesn't offer me "options" -- that is, it looks like it hangs
on, like it's still online, and I cannot get back online without rebooting.
Maybe I should run wicd as root? I don't like to do that. Usually wicd doesn't
behave in this manner, which I why I'm bothered. While I have Internet, of a sort, I still have a
few glitches; for
example, I cannot go offline, then go online again. Somehow, wicd either
auto-connects to my wifi network; when instead, I want to enable wifi,
then look at the available network choices, because my local network has
several nodes or access points within the building where I live, and
somehow it doesn't always choose the strongest or closest signal. I have
an access point right outside my door, yet autoconnect seems to avoid it.
But when I try to disconnect, sometimes wicd seems to hang on, and show
me still connected, yet I can't download emails or go online for other
stuff. When I run macchanger, it keeps showing me that my mac address
changes; and I run knetstats-trinity (which is a nice simple gui tool)
and it shows my wireless is connected then disconnected, shows activity
then no activity; yet in reality, I can't go online. So my only recourse
at this point is to reboot.
When I tried to get tdenetworkmanager to run, I had those problems
already discussed earlier. I managed to download the packages and
dependencies to install network-manager-tde without systemd, so it all
*seems* like it ought to work out right, but I always end up going back
to wicd; which, again, is only sort of half-working at the moment, and I
must keep rebooting.
How would I go about pruning away the wicd stuff that I don't want, and
keeping only the tdenetworkmanager and required dependencies, etc.? I've
search apt-get, but I believe that I already have all the dependencies
and recommends. I can't think what else I might have missed.
Bill
Just my experience: eiter use wicd (and uninstall network-manager) or use
networkmanager (and uninstall wicd).
I am not in control of my network connection -- as proved by the fact that I
can't go online/offline or offline/online without rebooting. This is what is
driving me crazy.
If anybody is annoyed by my complaints, and failure to resolve my own issues,
please be patient with me, and remember that I never had any problems with my
network itself for the past few years. I would bounce between
tdenetworkmanager and wicd, it's true, but my network connection was stable,
and I felt in control. I had other problems, yes, but this is different.
Bill
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7:33 p.m.
New subject: how to get tdenetworkmanager - with no wicd ?
On Thursday 03 September 2020 12:26:01 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 10:27:43 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Looks like so:
###########
source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*
# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
address 127.0.0.1
netmask 255.0.0.0
auto eth0
allow-hotplug eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp
# auto wlx00027288d1fd
allow-hotplug wlx00027288d1fd
iface wlx00027288d1fd inet dhcp
wpa-ssid myssid
wpa-psk mypassphrase
###########
The only thing changed since sometime in remote prehistory (before TDE) is the
line that used to read wlan0, which is now that ugly wlx-stuff.
Bill
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On Thursday 03 September 2020 10:01:53 Dr.
Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
the deamon part of wicd runs as root, your gui client communicates with
that daemon. there's also a wicd-cli for pure hearted.
btw, what's in your /etc/netwok/interfaces? since beowulf/buster anything
but "lo" will give trouble.
> I am not in control of my network connection -- as proved by the fact
> that I can't go online/offline or offline/online without rebooting. This
> is what is driving me crazy.
>
> If anybody is annoyed by my complaints, and failure to resolve my own
> issues, please be patient with me, and remember that I never had any
> problems with my network itself for the past few years. I would bounce
> between
> tdenetworkmanager and wicd, it's true, but my network connection was
> stable, and I felt in control. I had other problems, yes, but this is
> different.
>
> Bill
>
> Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 07:57:03 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Yeah, that's where I think I am headed. I already spent most of the past
two years using wicd instead of tdenetworkmanager. I just keep hoping
that I will get a different answer, so I ask the fortune teller to give
me another reading, and then another ...
I would be okay with using wicd instead; no problem. But now when I go
offline, wicd doesn't offer me "options" -- that is, it looks like it
hangs on, like it's still online, and I cannot get back online without
rebooting.
Maybe I should run wicd as root? I don't like to do that. Usually wicd
doesn't behave in this manner, which I why I'm bothered. While I have Internet, of a sort, I still have a
few glitches; for
example, I cannot go offline, then go online again. Somehow, wicd
either auto-connects to my wifi network; when instead, I want to
enable wifi, then look at the available network choices, because my
local network has several nodes or access points within the building
where I live, and somehow it doesn't always choose the strongest or
closest signal. I have an access point right outside my door, yet
autoconnect seems to avoid it.
But when I try to disconnect, sometimes wicd seems to hang on, and
show me still connected, yet I can't download emails or go online for
other stuff. When I run macchanger, it keeps showing me that my mac
address changes; and I run knetstats-trinity (which is a nice simple
gui tool) and it shows my wireless is connected then disconnected,
shows activity then no activity; yet in reality, I can't go online.
So my only recourse at this point is to reboot.
When I tried to get tdenetworkmanager to run, I had those problems
already discussed earlier. I managed to download the packages and
dependencies to install network-manager-tde without systemd, so it
all *seems* like it ought to work out right, but I always end up
going back to wicd; which, again, is only sort of half-working at the
moment, and I must keep rebooting.
How would I go about pruning away the wicd stuff that I don't want,
and keeping only the tdenetworkmanager and required dependencies,
etc.? I've search apt-get, but I believe that I already have all the
dependencies and recommends. I can't think what else I might have
missed.
Bill
Just my experience: eiter use wicd (and uninstall network-manager) or
use networkmanager (and uninstall wicd).
8:19 p.m.
New subject: how to get tdenetworkmanager - with no wicd ?
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 12:33:22 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Thursday 03 September 2020 12:26:01 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Remove or comment out all lines except these 2, then reboot:
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 10:27:43 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Looks like so:
###########
source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*
# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
address 127.0.0.1
netmask 255.0.0.0
auto eth0
allow-hotplug eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp
# auto wlx00027288d1fd
allow-hotplug wlx00027288d1fd
iface wlx00027288d1fd inet dhcp
wpa-ssid myssid
wpa-psk mypassphrase
###########
The only thing changed since sometime in remote prehistory (before TDE) is the
line that used to read wlan0, which is now that ugly wlx-stuff.
Bill
On Thursday 03 September 2020 10:01:53 Dr.
Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
the deamon part of wicd runs as root, your gui client communicates with
that daemon. there's also a wicd-cli for pure hearted.
btw, what's in your /etc/netwok/interfaces? since beowulf/buster anything
but "lo" will give trouble.
> I am not in control of my network connection -- as proved by the fact
> that I can't go online/offline or offline/online without rebooting. This
> is what is driving me crazy.
>
> If anybody is annoyed by my complaints, and failure to resolve my own
> issues, please be patient with me, and remember that I never had any
> problems with my network itself for the past few years. I would bounce
> between
> tdenetworkmanager and wicd, it's true, but my network connection was
> stable, and I felt in control. I had other problems, yes, but this is
> different.
>
> Bill
>
> Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 07:57:03 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
> While I have Internet, of a sort, I still have a few glitches; for
> example, I cannot go offline, then go online again. Somehow, wicd
> either auto-connects to my wifi network; when instead, I want to
> enable wifi, then look at the available network choices, because my
> local network has several nodes or access points within the building
> where I live, and somehow it doesn't always choose the strongest or
> closest signal. I have an access point right outside my door, yet
> autoconnect seems to avoid it.
>
> But when I try to disconnect, sometimes wicd seems to hang on, and
> show me still connected, yet I can't download emails or go online for
> other stuff. When I run macchanger, it keeps showing me that my mac
> address changes; and I run knetstats-trinity (which is a nice simple
> gui tool) and it shows my wireless is connected then disconnected,
> shows activity then no activity; yet in reality, I can't go online.
> So my only recourse at this point is to reboot.
>
> When I tried to get tdenetworkmanager to run, I had those problems
> already discussed earlier. I managed to download the packages and
> dependencies to install network-manager-tde without systemd, so it
> all *seems* like it ought to work out right, but I always end up
> going back to wicd; which, again, is only sort of half-working at the
> moment, and I must keep rebooting.
>
> How would I go about pruning away the wicd stuff that I don't want,
> and keeping only the tdenetworkmanager and required dependencies,
> etc.? I've search apt-get, but I believe that I already have all the
> dependencies and recommends. I can't think what else I might have
> missed.
>
> Bill
Just my experience: eiter use wicd (and uninstall network-manager) or
use networkmanager (and uninstall wicd).
Yeah, that's where I think I am headed. I already spent most of the past
two years using wicd instead of tdenetworkmanager. I just keep hoping
that I will get a different answer, so I ask the fortune teller to give
me another reading, and then another ...
I would be okay with using wicd instead; no problem. But now when I go
offline, wicd doesn't offer me "options" -- that is, it looks like it
hangs on, like it's still online, and I cannot get back online without
rebooting.
Maybe I should run wicd as root? I don't like to do that. Usually wicd
doesn't behave in this manner, which I why I'm bothered.
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9:56 p.m.
New subject: how to get tdenetworkmanager - with no wicd ?
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Remove or comment out all lines except these 2, then
reboot:
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
good catch Dr. Klepp - I have completely forgotton that there are still
people on desktops with entries in the file.
When I read your question it lighted up again - to manage the networks by
NetworkManager there should be no entries in there (except lo as pointed by
you)
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4 Sep
4 Sep
1:29 a.m.
New subject: how to get tdenetworkmanager - with no wicd ?
On Thursday 03 September 2020 14:56:01 deloptes wrote:
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Changed these lines now (contrary to all advice found by online "experts"!),
and I am now rebooting in order to do a test run.
Science means that I ought to be able to reproduce your results, rather than
attributing my problems to the Men in Black.
Bill
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Remove or comment out all lines except these 2,
then reboot:
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
good catch Dr. Klepp - I have completely forgotton that there are still
people on desktops with entries in the file.
When I read your question it lighted up again - to manage the networks by
NetworkManager there should be no entries in there (except lo as pointed by
you)
6:17 a.m.
New subject: how to get tdenetworkmanager - with no wicd ? - P.S.
On Thursday 03 September 2020 14:56:01 deloptes wrote:
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Changed these lines now (contrary to all advice found by online "experts"!),
and I am now rebooting in order to do a test run.
Science means that I ought to be able to reproduce your results, rather than
attributing my problems to the Men in Black.
Bill
P.S. Regarding those lines in /etc/network/interfaces
Okay, so that did the trick, I believe, so far as getting my network to behave
normally again. I am puzzled about why it should begin to misbehave, when I
have been using those settings since long before TDE and Debian. I believe I
set those lines back when I started running Linux, sometime around Kubuntu
Hardy Heron 8.04, so about 2006 or 2007, back when I still had direct contact
with other human beings.
Anyway, so the worst of the issue is solved. It seems that I can go
online/offline, back and forth, without my connection getting caught in some
limbo then needing to reboot.
However, there is yet one glitch. When I tried to use tdenetworkmanager to
connect, I can look at all available networks, as usual, and everything
behaves as expected. I only needed to re-enter my wifi password, enable my
chosen network, etc., but when I go to save the network, I am told that I
don't have sufficient permissions.
On the other hand, wicd seems to work normally again, so that life can go on,
one way or another. I would like to solve this new issue, but if not, at
least I can control my network connection.
Bill
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Remove or comment out all lines except these 2,
then reboot:
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
good catch Dr. Klepp - I have completely forgotton that there are still
people on desktops with entries in the file.
When I read your question it lighted up again - to manage the networks by
NetworkManager there should be no entries in there (except lo as pointed by
you)
7:04 a.m.
New subject: how to get tdenetworkmanager - with no wicd ? - P.S.
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 23:17:50 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
On Thursday 03 September 2020 14:56:01 deloptes wrote:
What groups are you in? IMO you need to be in "netdev".
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Changed these lines now (contrary to all advice found by online "experts"!),
and I am now rebooting in order to do a test run.
Science means that I ought to be able to reproduce your results, rather than
attributing my problems to the Men in Black.
Bill
P.S. Regarding those lines in /etc/network/interfaces
Okay, so that did the trick, I believe, so far as getting my network to behave
normally again. I am puzzled about why it should begin to misbehave, when I
have been using those settings since long before TDE and Debian. I believe I
set those lines back when I started running Linux, sometime around Kubuntu
Hardy Heron 8.04, so about 2006 or 2007, back when I still had direct contact
with other human beings.
Anyway, so the worst of the issue is solved. It seems that I can go
online/offline, back and forth, without my connection getting caught in some
limbo then needing to reboot.
However, there is yet one glitch. When I tried to use tdenetworkmanager to
connect, I can look at all available networks, as usual, and everything
behaves as expected. I only needed to re-enter my wifi password, enable my
chosen network, etc., but when I go to save the network, I am told that I
don't have sufficient permissions.
On the other hand, wicd seems to work normally again, so that life can go on,
one way or another. I would like to solve this new issue, but if not, at
least I can control my network connection. Remove or comment out all lines except these 2,
then reboot:
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
good catch Dr. Klepp - I have completely forgotton that there are still
people on desktops with entries in the file.
When I read your question it lighted up again - to manage the networks by
NetworkManager there should be no entries in there (except lo as pointed by
you)
Bill
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10:23 a.m.
New subject: how to get tdenetworkmanager - with no wicd ? - P.S.
On Friday 04 September 2020 00:04:52 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 23:17:50 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Just checked, and I am already a member of that group.
Moreover, I seem to have reverted to that problem of network limbo, where I
cannot go online/offline without making a mess and needing to reboot.
The error message I am getting is this:
############
Unable to save network connection!
Potential causese:
* Insufficient permissions
* NetworkManager not running
* DBUS failure
############
(I would have taken a snapshot, but I find that I do not yet have
ksnapshot-trinity installed.)
At least I have got tdenetworkmanager's icon to look normal (a globe when it
is running, a white square when not), and I can actually see the networks,
just I am not allowed to use them, nor to save settings. So now I am back to
using wicd for network, and fighting against Network Limbo Syndrome.
Bill
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On Thursday 03 September 2020 14:56:01 deloptes
wrote:
What groups are you in? IMO you need to be in "netdev".
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Changed these lines now (contrary to all advice found by online
"experts"!), and I am now rebooting in order to do a test run.
Science means that I ought to be able to reproduce your results, rather
than attributing my problems to the Men in Black.
Bill
P.S. Regarding those lines in /etc/network/interfaces
Okay, so that did the trick, I believe, so far as getting my network to
behave normally again. I am puzzled about why it should begin to
misbehave, when I have been using those settings since long before TDE
and Debian. I believe I set those lines back when I started running
Linux, sometime around Kubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04, so about 2006 or 2007,
back when I still had direct contact with other human beings.
Anyway, so the worst of the issue is solved. It seems that I can go
online/offline, back and forth, without my connection getting caught in
some limbo then needing to reboot.
However, there is yet one glitch. When I tried to use tdenetworkmanager
to connect, I can look at all available networks, as usual, and
everything behaves as expected. I only needed to re-enter my wifi
password, enable my chosen network, etc., but when I go to save the
network, I am told that I don't have sufficient permissions.
On the other hand, wicd seems to work normally again, so that life can go
on, one way or another. I would like to solve this new issue, but if not,
at least I can control my network connection. Remove or comment out all lines except these 2,
then reboot:
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
good catch Dr. Klepp - I have completely forgotton that there are still
people on desktops with entries in the file.
When I read your question it lighted up again - to manage the networks
by NetworkManager there should be no entries in there (except lo as
pointed by you)
8:22 p.m.
New subject: how to get tdenetworkmanager - with no wicd ? - P.S.
William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
Just checked, and I am already a member of that
group.
Moreover, I seem to have reverted to that problem of network limbo, where
I cannot go online/offline without making a mess and needing to reboot.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NetworkManager
look at "Set up PolicyKit permissions"
Also
https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkManager
and test with wicd uninstalled to avoid interference
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8:40 p.m.
New subject: how to get tdenetworkmanager - with no wicd ? - P.S.
On Friday 04 September 2020 13:22:26 deloptes wrote:
William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
Thanks, I am on it.
Bill
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Just checked, and I am already a member of that
group.
Moreover, I seem to have reverted to that problem of network limbo, where
I cannot go online/offline without making a mess and needing to reboot.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NetworkManager
look at "Set up PolicyKit permissions"
Also
https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkManager
and test with wicd uninstalled to avoid interference
11:03 p.m.
New subject: how to get tdenetworkmanager - with no wicd ? - P.S.
On Friday 04 September 2020, William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
On Friday 04 September 2020 13:22:26 deloptes wrote:
Me 2
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William Morder via trinity-users wrote:
Thanks, I am on it.
Bill
--------------------------------------------------------------------- Just checked, and I am already a member of that
group.
Moreover, I seem to have reverted to that problem of network limbo,
where I cannot go online/offline without making a mess and needing to
reboot.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NetworkManager
look at "Set up PolicyKit permissions"
Also
https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkManager
and test with wicd uninstalled to avoid interference
3 Sep
3 Sep
7:43 p.m.
New subject: how to get tdenetworkmanager - with no wicd ?
On Thursday 03 September 2020 12:26:01 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 10:27:43 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
I might give that wicd-cli a whirl, since I already have it, and its manpages
are blessedly short, yet have all the options I want.
It is a matter of debate, whether or not I am pure of heart; nowadays,
however, I have been washing my hands more often than usual. That ought to
count for something, right?
Bill
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On Thursday 03 September 2020 10:01:53 Dr.
Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
the deamon part of wicd runs as root, your gui client communicates with
that daemon. there's also a wicd-cli for pure hearted.
btw, what's in your /etc/netwok/interfaces? since beowulf/buster anything
but "lo" will give trouble.
> I am not in control of my network connection -- as proved by the fact
> that I can't go online/offline or offline/online without rebooting. This
> is what is driving me crazy.
>
> If anybody is annoyed by my complaints, and failure to resolve my own
> issues, please be patient with me, and remember that I never had any
> problems with my network itself for the past few years. I would bounce
> between
> tdenetworkmanager and wicd, it's true, but my network connection was
> stable, and I felt in control. I had other problems, yes, but this is
> different.
>
> Bill
>
> Anno domini 2020 Thu, 3 Sep 07:57:03 -0700
William Morder via trinity-users scripsit:
Yeah, that's where I think I am headed. I already spent most of the past
two years using wicd instead of tdenetworkmanager. I just keep hoping
that I will get a different answer, so I ask the fortune teller to give
me another reading, and then another ...
I would be okay with using wicd instead; no problem. But now when I go
offline, wicd doesn't offer me "options" -- that is, it looks like it
hangs on, like it's still online, and I cannot get back online without
rebooting.
Maybe I should run wicd as root? I don't like to do that. Usually wicd
doesn't behave in this manner, which I why I'm bothered. While I have Internet, of a sort, I still have a
few glitches; for
example, I cannot go offline, then go online again. Somehow, wicd
either auto-connects to my wifi network; when instead, I want to
enable wifi, then look at the available network choices, because my
local network has several nodes or access points within the building
where I live, and somehow it doesn't always choose the strongest or
closest signal. I have an access point right outside my door, yet
autoconnect seems to avoid it.
But when I try to disconnect, sometimes wicd seems to hang on, and
show me still connected, yet I can't download emails or go online for
other stuff. When I run macchanger, it keeps showing me that my mac
address changes; and I run knetstats-trinity (which is a nice simple
gui tool) and it shows my wireless is connected then disconnected,
shows activity then no activity; yet in reality, I can't go online.
So my only recourse at this point is to reboot.
When I tried to get tdenetworkmanager to run, I had those problems
already discussed earlier. I managed to download the packages and
dependencies to install network-manager-tde without systemd, so it
all *seems* like it ought to work out right, but I always end up
going back to wicd; which, again, is only sort of half-working at the
moment, and I must keep rebooting.
How would I go about pruning away the wicd stuff that I don't want,
and keeping only the tdenetworkmanager and required dependencies,
etc.? I've search apt-get, but I believe that I already have all the
dependencies and recommends. I can't think what else I might have
missed.
Bill
Just my experience: eiter use wicd (and uninstall network-manager) or
use networkmanager (and uninstall wicd).
6 Sep
6 Sep
9:57 a.m.
New subject: TDE-mailing_list-TEMPLATE - testing
Just giving the new TDE mailing list template a test run. See attachment for
how I have set up headers.
If you want to keep your email private, and "reply to" the TDE list instead of
your personal email, I believe I have got it right here.
Included as a special bonus is one of my jabber/xmpp accounts, for when one of
our conversations goes WAY off-topic.
Bill
jabber/xmpp
dr_mojo_contendo(a)hot-chilli.net
13 Apr
13 Apr
9:54 p.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
Whenever kerberos, heimdal or ldap pkgs get installed, I find that I can no
longer change my password. I always get a error message:
"unable to change expired password: Authentication token manipulation error"
But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE packages
get removed.
Bill
14 Apr
14 Apr
6:20 a.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
Anno domini 2021 Tue, 13 Apr 14:54:25 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
Whenever kerberos, heimdal or ldap pkgs get installed,
I find that I can no
longer change my password. I always get a error message:
"unable to change expired password: Authentication token manipulation error"
But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE packages
get removed.
tdm-trinity uses libtdeldap-trinity. When you remove it (or replace it by a dummy package)
tdm failes to inititialize your session (cannot open /opt/trinity/lib/libtdeldap.so.1). So
for the time beeing, you'd need to remove tdm-trinity if you want to get rid of ldap -
and set all depending metapackages to "manual"
Oh, cant you change your password from the commendline?
Nik
Bill
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8:04 a.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
On Tuesday 13 April 2021 23:20:25 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Exactly, I use a command to force expiration of my password, then use another
command to change my password. I do this nearly every day, no issues ...
except when kerberos-heimdal and (possibly) ldap are involved.
I wonder if it has something to do with a smartcardauth package; that one
seems to be problematic for me, all by itself. Also there is
kdesktop-trinity, which seems to require the kerberos-heimdal-ldap packages.
My workaround is simple: I always keep a folder with most recent downloaded
packages for my system. When I upgrade to a new version, then I do some
housecleaning. So I can manage to get my system working normally again
without much trouble, but it still doesn't answer the question.
There must be something that causes those packages to get installed as
dependencies. I think that the trinity ldap package is okay, but whatever
else gets called in keeps repeating this mistake. Whenever I imagine that
I've got it resolved, it pops back again a year or so later.
Bill
Anno domini 2021 Tue, 13 Apr 14:54:25 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
error message:
"unable to change expired password: Authentication token manipulation
error"
But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE
packages get removed.
tdm-trinity uses libtdeldap-trinity. When you remove it (or replace it by a
dummy package) tdm failes to inititialize your session (cannot open
/opt/trinity/lib/libtdeldap.so.1). So for the time beeing, you'd need to
remove tdm-trinity if you want to get rid of ldap - and set all depending
metapackages to "manual"
Oh, cant you change your password from the commendline?
Nik
6:28 a.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
Hi Bill,
Am Dienstag, 13. April 2021 schrieb William Morder via tde-users:
Whenever kerberos, heimdal or ldap pkgs get installed,
I find that I
can no longer change my password. I always get a error message:
"unable to change expired password: Authentication token manipulation
error"
But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE
packages get removed.
on my Devuan GNU+Linux beowulf system with TDE R14.0.10 (PSB) no
kerberos and no heimdal is installed. For "ldap" I find these, installed
by dependency:
$ aptitude search "?installed(ldap)"
i A libaprutil1-ldap - Apache Portable Runtime Utility Library - LDAP Driver
i A libldap-2.4-2 - OpenLDAP libraries
i A libldap-common - OpenLDAP common files for libraries
What are the dependencies?
$ for package in libaprutil1-ldap libldap-2.4-2 libldap-common; do aptitude why
"$package"; done
i task-web-server Depends apache2
i A apache2 Depends apache2-bin (= 2.4.38-3+deb10u4)
i A apache2-bin Depends libaprutil1-ldap
i tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity Depends libldap-2.4-2 (>= 2.4.7)
i tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity Depends libldap-2.4-2 (>= 2.4.7)
i A libldap-2.4-2 Depends libldap-common
This means: libldap-2.4-2 is installed because tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity
depends on it and it pulls also libldap-common.
I have never had any problems to change passwords.
HTH
Kind regards, Stefan
8:11 a.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
On Tuesday 13 April 2021 23:28:10 Stefan Krusche via tde-users wrote:
Hi Bill,
Yes, this looks close to my own configuration. I also run Devuan Beowulf. It
may not be specifically the ldap packages for Trinity, but rather whatever
other ldap packages get called as dependencies; the real problem is kerberos
and heimdal. Whenever I have them installed, then I kerberos comes up when I
try to change my password (manually, by command-line), and I get that same
error message.
I generally just purge kerberos* heimdal* ldap* (which wipes out my essential
Trinity packages); but then I still have shells open, so I use dpkg to force
installation of old TDE packages. Everything looks normal again, no more
problems with passwords or kerberos; so I can wrestle the machine into
submission.
But as I responded to Nik, it doesn't answer the question of why I keep having
that problem only about once a year or so. I seldom change anything or try
anything new, and if I do, I make a note of them.
Bill
error message:
"unable to change expired password: Authentication token manipulation
error"
But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE
packages get removed.
on my Devuan GNU+Linux beowulf system with TDE R14.0.10 (PSB) no
kerberos and no heimdal is installed. For "ldap" I find these, installed
by dependency:
$ aptitude search "?installed(ldap)"
i A libaprutil1-ldap - Apache Portable Runtime Utility Library - LDAP
Driver i A libldap-2.4-2 - OpenLDAP libraries
i A libldap-common - OpenLDAP common files for libraries
What are the dependencies?
$ for package in libaprutil1-ldap libldap-2.4-2 libldap-common; do aptitude
why "$package"; done i task-web-server Depends apache2
i A apache2 Depends apache2-bin (= 2.4.38-3+deb10u4)
i A apache2-bin Depends libaprutil1-ldap
i tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity Depends libldap-2.4-2 (>= 2.4.7)
i tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity Depends libldap-2.4-2 (>= 2.4.7)
i A libldap-2.4-2 Depends libldap-common
This means: libldap-2.4-2 is installed because
tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity depends on it and it pulls also
libldap-common.
I have never had any problems to change passwords.
HTH
Kind regards, Stefan
11:16 p.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
On Tuesday 13 April 2021 23:28:10 Stefan Krusche via tde-users wrote:
Hi Bill,
Okay, so some more information on this issue. An old note to myself advises
*not* to install kdesktop-trinity, as this "installs ldap-heimdal-kerberos
krap!" And this does ring a faint bell.
When I try to uninstall this package, however, I am told that this cannot be
done without uninstalling lots of Trinity stuff. In particular,
konqueror-trinity depends on kdesktop-trinity.
(Sorry I cannot give more information, but readers may recall that I have a
hard drive that crashed, which I still have yet to recover; and on that drive
I kept very detailed notes about such issues, and moreover managed to keep my
life organized and reasonably tidy; now everything is a mess, and I am
working to rebuild what was lost.)
It seems to be kerberos that interferes with changing passwords; heimdal must
get dragged in with it. In any case, I have superstitiously avoided both; I
don't know quite what they do, but they don't suit my purposes. Regarding
ldap, that doesn't seem to be a problem with Trinity ldap packages, only
other ldap that get called as dependencies.
So, if I can uninstall kdesktop-trinity without also removing other crucial
packages, this (at least, according to my notes) ought to resolve the issue.
Bill
error message:
"unable to change expired password: Authentication token manipulation
error"
But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE
packages get removed.
11:43 p.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
On Thursday 15 of April 2021 01:16:32 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 13 April 2021 23:28:10 Stefan Krusche via
tde-users wrote:
You seem to have now installed TDE 14.1.0~pre - ie repository PTB. Unlike
R14.0.x, tdm in PTB has fixed dependence on libtdeldap, which has fixed
dependence on kerberos. Currently, you cannot uninstall libtdeldap and
kerberos packages in R14.1.0~pre. Uninstalling the kdesktop-trinity
package is not a good idea because it provides desktop as such.
Exactly this dependence on libtdeldap and kerberos is one of the points
that is blocking R14.1.0 to be considered ready for release.
Cheers
--
Slávek
Hi Bill,
> error message:
>
> "unable to change expired password: Authentication token
> manipulation error"
>
> But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE
> packages get removed.
Okay, so some more information on this issue. An old note to myself
advises *not* to install kdesktop-trinity, as this "installs
ldap-heimdal-kerberos krap!" And this does ring a faint bell.
When I try to uninstall this package, however, I am told that this
cannot be done without uninstalling lots of Trinity stuff. In
particular, konqueror-trinity depends on kdesktop-trinity.
(Sorry I cannot give more information, but readers may recall that I
have a hard drive that crashed, which I still have yet to recover; and
on that drive I kept very detailed notes about such issues, and moreover
managed to keep my life organized and reasonably tidy; now everything is
a mess, and I am working to rebuild what was lost.)
It seems to be kerberos that interferes with changing passwords; heimdal
must get dragged in with it. In any case, I have superstitiously avoided
both; I don't know quite what they do, but they don't suit my purposes.
Regarding ldap, that doesn't seem to be a problem with Trinity ldap
packages, only other ldap that get called as dependencies.
So, if I can uninstall kdesktop-trinity without also removing other
crucial packages, this (at least, according to my notes) ought to
resolve the issue.
Bill
____________________________________________________
15 Apr
15 Apr
12:11 a.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
On Wednesday 14 April 2021 16:43:11 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
On Thursday 15 of April 2021 01:16:32 William Morder
via tde-users wrote:
a~HA! Gotcha!
;-)
I had a hunch that something had changed. I suppose that I could revert to
stable builds. But unless it can be resolved in future, I will still have to
deal with it whenever I finally upgrade out of Devuan Beowulf. That will be a
few more years, as it is an LTS release, so I can at least work around it for
a while.
Thanks, Slavek!
Bill
On Tuesday 13 April 2021 23:28:10 Stefan Krusche
via tde-users wrote:
You seem to have now installed TDE 14.1.0~pre - ie repository PTB. Unlike
R14.0.x, tdm in PTB has fixed dependence on libtdeldap, which has fixed
dependence on kerberos. Currently, you cannot uninstall libtdeldap and
kerberos packages in R14.1.0~pre. Uninstalling the kdesktop-trinity
package is not a good idea because it provides desktop as such.
Exactly this dependence on libtdeldap and kerberos is one of the points
that is blocking R14.1.0 to be considered ready for release.
Cheers Hi Bill,
> error message:
>
> "unable to change expired password: Authentication token
> manipulation error"
>
> But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE
> packages get removed.
Okay, so some more information on this issue. An old note to myself
advises *not* to install kdesktop-trinity, as this "installs
ldap-heimdal-kerberos krap!" And this does ring a faint bell.
When I try to uninstall this package, however, I am told that this
cannot be done without uninstalling lots of Trinity stuff. In
particular, konqueror-trinity depends on kdesktop-trinity.
(Sorry I cannot give more information, but readers may recall that I
have a hard drive that crashed, which I still have yet to recover; and
on that drive I kept very detailed notes about such issues, and moreover
managed to keep my life organized and reasonably tidy; now everything is
a mess, and I am working to rebuild what was lost.)
It seems to be kerberos that interferes with changing passwords; heimdal
must get dragged in with it. In any case, I have superstitiously avoided
both; I don't know quite what they do, but they don't suit my purposes.
Regarding ldap, that doesn't seem to be a problem with Trinity ldap
packages, only other ldap that get called as dependencies.
So, if I can uninstall kdesktop-trinity without also removing other
crucial packages, this (at least, according to my notes) ought to
resolve the issue.
Bill
____________________________________________________
22 Apr
22 Apr
4:01 p.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
On Tuesday 13 of April 2021 23:54:25 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Whenever kerberos, heimdal or ldap pkgs get installed,
I find that I can
no longer change my password. I always get a error message:
"unable to change expired password: Authentication token manipulation
error"
But when I try to remove these pkgs, pretty much all essential TDE
packages get removed.
Bill
____________________________________________________
Good news! Thanks to the Michele patch, tdebase in R14.1.0~pre is no longer
dependent on libtdeldap and thus neither kerberos things. As soon as you
update to the new PTB packages, you can uninstall libtdeldap and kerberos
packages.
Cheers
--
Slávek
4:55 p.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Good news! Thanks to the Michele patch, tdebase in
R14.1.0~pre is no
longer dependent on libtdeldap and thus neither kerberos things. As soon
as you update to the new PTB packages, you can uninstall libtdeldap and
kerberos packages.
Slavek, did I understand correctly that in the main dev branch of R14.1 the
dependency was not there, but in the ~pre it was still there?
Because I check here and I do not have any trace of ldap/kerberos etc.
thanks in advance
5:06 p.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
On Thursday 22 of April 2021 18:55:43 deloptes wrote:
Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Dependence of tdebase on libtdeldap and kerberos things was specific to
master branch => ie R14.1.0~pre (repostory PTB). This problem does not
apply to stable branch => ie R14.0.10~pre (repository PSB).
Therefore, there is nothing to change for users of a stable branch - the
problem did not concern them.
Cheers
--
Slávek
Good news! Thanks to the Michele patch, tdebase
in R14.1.0~pre is no
longer dependent on libtdeldap and thus neither kerberos things. As
soon as you update to the new PTB packages, you can uninstall
libtdeldap and kerberos packages.
Slavek, did I understand correctly that in the main dev branch of R14.1
the dependency was not there, but in the ~pre it was still there?
Because I check here and I do not have any trace of ldap/kerberos etc.
thanks in advance
____________________________________________________
5:31 p.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Dependence of tdebase on libtdeldap and kerberos
things was specific to
master branch => ie R14.1.0~pre (repostory PTB). This problem does not
apply to stable branch => ie R14.0.10~pre (repository PSB).
Therefore, there is nothing to change for users of a stable branch - the
problem did not concern them.
but this is what confuses me, because I use the 14.1 DEV branch and there is
also no dependency
8:20 p.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
On Thursday 22 April 2021 10:06:04 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
On Thursday 22 of April 2021 18:55:43 deloptes wrote:
Far out! That's a minor headache that I am glad is resolved. I disabled all
but the stable repositories, and everything worked again, but this is great
news. No more workarounds.
Thanks, Michele & Slavek!
Bill
Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Dependence of tdebase on libtdeldap and kerberos things was specific to
master branch => ie R14.1.0~pre (repostory PTB). This problem does not
apply to stable branch => ie R14.0.10~pre (repository PSB).
Therefore, there is nothing to change for users of a stable branch - the
problem did not concern them.
Cheers Good news! Thanks to the Michele patch, tdebase
in R14.1.0~pre is no
longer dependent on libtdeldap and thus neither kerberos things. As
soon as you update to the new PTB packages, you can uninstall
libtdeldap and kerberos packages.
Slavek, did I understand correctly that in the main dev branch of R14.1
the dependency was not there, but in the ~pre it was still there?
Because I check here and I do not have any trace of ldap/kerberos etc.
thanks in advance
____________________________________________________ 
9:23 p.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
On Thursday 22 April 2021 19:06:04 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
Therefore, there is nothing to change for users of a
stable branch - the
problem did not concern them.
For that, which lines to keep in /etc/apt/sources.list ?
(users of a stable branch).
Thanks, cheers.
André
23 Apr
23 Apr
12:37 a.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
On 2021/04/23 06:23 AM, ajh-valmer wrote:
On Thursday 22 April 2021 19:06:04 Slávek Banko via
tde-users wrote:
No changes required on apt source list configuration, whether you are on PSB or PTB.
If you are on PTB, after updating to the latest packages you will be able
to remove tdeldap-trinity and heimdal-clients
packages if you wish.
Cheers
Michele
Therefore, there is nothing to change for users
of a stable branch - the
problem did not concern them.
For that, which lines to keep in /etc/apt/sources.list ?
(users of a stable branch).
Thanks, cheers.
André
7:49 a.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
On Friday 23 April 2021 02:37:26 Michele Calgaro via tde-users wrote:
> On Thursday 22 April 2021 19:06:04 Slávek Banko
via tde-users wrote:
>> Therefore, there is nothing to change for users of a stable branch - the
>> problem did not concern them.
> For that, which lines to keep in
/etc/apt/sources.list ?
> (users of a stable branch).
No changes required on apt source list configuration,
whether you are on PSB
or PTB.
If you are on PTB, after updating to the latest packages you will be able
to remove tdeldap-trinity and heimdal-clients
packages if you wish.
Thanks,
but, what are PSB, PTB ? (acronym),
How to know if we use PSB or PTB ?
André
SB : . stable branch ?
8:13 a.m.
New subject: how to install TDE pkgs *without* kerberos-heimdal-ldap?
On 2021/04/23 04:49 PM, ajh-valmer wrote:
PSB stands for Preliminary Stable Builds - basically a rolling build of R14.0.x for
Debian/Ubuntu and the likes
PSB stands for Preliminary Testing Builds - a rolling build of master branch (R14.1.x)
See here:
PSB - https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Preliminary_Stable_Builds
PTB - https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Preliminary_Testing_Builds
You can think of them as nightly builds preview of what will be the next stable release.
Cheers
Michele
On Friday 23 April 2021 02:37:26 Michele Calgaro via
tde-users wrote:
>> On Thursday 22 April 2021 19:06:04 Slávek Banko via tde-users wrote:
>>> Therefore, there is nothing to change for users of a stable branch -
the
>>
problem did not concern them.
> For that, which lines to keep in
/etc/apt/sources.list ?
> (users of a stable branch).
No changes required on apt source list
configuration, whether you are on PSB
or PTB.
If you are on PTB, after updating to the latest packages you will be able
to remove tdeldap-trinity and heimdal-clients
packages if you wish.
Thanks,
but, what are PSB, PTB ? (acronym),
How to know if we use PSB or PTB ?
24 Apr
24 Apr
1:19 p.m.
New subject: tork-trinity or tor fails to start privoxy?
Okay, so here is a weird one. I've been using tork since KDE3, about the year
2005 or so. Once I got it configured, I've experienced hardly any issues;
only when I upgrade, then sometimes a few packages change, and I make
adjustments, but that's about it. My configuration has stayed pretty much the
same ever since then.
About a year ago, I responded to a thread started by Andre (search for the
heading "tork-trinity - my config"); that has been my basic configuration
since for ever.
But now suddenly I get a message that tork-trinity fails to start privoxy. I
tried restarting it manually in a shell, and here's what I get:
sudo /etc/init.d/privoxy restart
[FAIL] Restarting filtering proxy server: privoxy failed!
I checked sysv-rc-conf, and I generally leave tor and privoxy unchecked at all
run levels, because I like to start it up myself. Otherwise, whenever I
started tork, I couldn't connect, and would have to kill tor, tork and
privoxy, anyway, so it has always worked better by starting it manually.
It occurs to me that maybe this has some connection to my recent upgrade
(following that recent thread, "how to install TDE pkgs *without*
kerberos-heimdal-ldap?"). Michele resolved that issue, and now I don't have
any problems with kerberos or changing my passwords. I upgraded using the PTB
repository. However, I had already noticed some odd behavior earlier when I
was using the stable builds. (It seemed that privoxy was not starting, but
everything still worked; however my download speeds were greatly increased,
obviously because I am not using privoxy.)
Not that I am engaging in any Internet activity that is suspect or dangerous
(so far as I know), but it would be nice to keep my privacy intact. These
days, it's hard to tell what is paranoia and what is just reasonable caution.
Does anybody have some idea what may have changed, since I have not changed my
configuration since TDE prehistory? Thanks for any help!
Bill
4:25 p.m.
New subject: tork-trinity or tor fails to start privoxy?
On Saturday 24 April 2021 08:19:50 am William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Does anybody have some idea what may have changed,
since I have not changed
my configuration since TDE prehistory? Thanks for any help!
Hi Bill,
I’ll offer you a different (better?) solution:
https://www.whonix.org/
for VirtualBox with XFCE
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/VirtualBox/XFCE
Takes about 2 to 8 hours to setup, depending on your level of existing
knowledge.
One caveat is VirtualBox is not exactly the easiest to setup, as such tell me
if you’re going this route and I’ll dig up MX’s installation file for you.
Best,
Michael
4:42 p.m.
New subject: tork-trinity or tor fails to start privoxy?
On Saturday 24 April 2021 09:25:41 Michael via tde-users wrote:
On Saturday 24 April 2021 08:19:50 am William Morder
via tde-users wrote:
Sorry, but I've tried Whonix, didn't like it (at least not for my primary box,
which at the moment is my only box). It was fun to try out, but I really
prefer to stick with Devuan at the moment.
Thanks for the idea. And if I can get myself into a new place (working on it!)
where I can have an entire room dedicated to playing on various computers and
connected gadgets, I will give it a try again.
Bill
Does anybody have some idea what may have
changed, since I have not
changed my configuration since TDE prehistory? Thanks for any help!
Hi Bill,
I’ll offer you a different (better?) solution:
https://www.whonix.org/
for VirtualBox with XFCE
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/VirtualBox/XFCE
Takes about 2 to 8 hours to setup, depending on your level of existing
knowledge.
One caveat is VirtualBox is not exactly the easiest to setup, as such tell
me if you’re going this route and I’ll dig up MX’s installation file for
you.
Best,
Michael
5:02 p.m.
New subject: tork-trinity or tor fails to start privoxy? - P.S. what about heads?
On Saturday 24 April 2021 09:25:41 Michael via tde-users wrote:
On Saturday 24 April 2021 08:19:50 am William Morder
via tde-users wrote:
Sorry, but I've tried Whonix, didn't like it (at least not for my primary box,
which at the moment is my only box). It was fun to try out, but I really
prefer to stick with Devuan at the moment.
Thanks for the idea. And if I can get myself into a new place (working on it!)
where I can have an entire room dedicated to playing on various computers and
connected gadgets, I will give it a try again.
Bill
P.S. I have been thinking for a while of giving heads a try; that's the Devuan
version of tails. I believe they're supposed to be installed on a flash
drive, but I see no reason why I could not install as usual on an internal
hard drive. For what it's worth, I've successfully done the reverse: that is,
to install my complete customized OS on a flash drive, complete with root,
swap and home partitions.
Does anybody have some idea what may have
changed, since I have not
changed my configuration since TDE prehistory? Thanks for any help!
Hi Bill,
I’ll offer you a different (better?) solution:
https://www.whonix.org/
for VirtualBox with XFCE
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/VirtualBox/XFCE
Takes about 2 to 8 hours to setup, depending on your level of existing
knowledge.
One caveat is VirtualBox is not exactly the easiest to setup, as such tell
me if you’re going this route and I’ll dig up MX’s installation file for
you.
Best,
Michael
11:49 p.m.
New subject: tork-trinity or tor fails to start privoxy? - P.S. what about heads?
On Saturday 24 April 2021 12:02:09 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Saturday 24 April 2021 09:25:41 Michael via
tde-users wrote:
Ah, it's run in a VirtualBox VM so it's not a 'primary box' replacement
(e.g.
you'd run it on your primary box, not as a primary box). It's only to
replace your current use of tor, tork and privoxy.
If you're using tor, tork and privoxy for everything you do, then you can spin
up a Devuan VM and copy all the network settings of the Whonix Workstation VM
so the Devuan VM only goes through the Whonix Gateway VM[1]. Although if
you're going that far you'd be better served to go the Qubes-Whonix route:
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Qubes
Which is exceedingly safer than Tails, Heads, or any of the other similar
solutions.
HTH, Best,
Michael
[1] That’s seriously not recommended as you’d lose all fingerprint anonymity.
On Saturday 24 April 2021 08:19:50 am William
Morder via tde-users wrote:
Sorry, but I've tried Whonix, didn't like it (at least not for my primary
box, which at the moment is my only box). Does anybody have some idea what may have
changed, since I have not
changed my configuration since TDE prehistory? Thanks for any help!
Hi Bill,
I’ll offer you a different (better?) solution:
https://www.whonix.org/
for VirtualBox with XFCE
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/VirtualBox/XFCE
25 Apr
25 Apr
12:33 a.m.
New subject: tork-trinity or tor fails to start privoxy? - P.S. what about heads?
On Saturday 24 April 2021 16:49:22 Michael via tde-users wrote:
Sorry, but I've tried Whonix, didn't like it (at least not for my primary
box, which at the moment is my only box).
Ah, it's run in a VirtualBox VM so it's not a 'primary box' replacement
(e.g. you'd run it on your primary box, not as a primary box). It's only
to replace your current use of tor, tork and privoxy.
If you're using tor, tork and privoxy for everything you do, then you can
spin up a Devuan VM and copy all the network settings of the Whonix
Workstation VM so the Devuan VM only goes through the Whonix Gateway VM[1].
Although if you're going that far you'd be better served to go the
Qubes-Whonix route:
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Qubes
Which is exceedingly safer than Tails, Heads, or any of the other similar
solutions.
HTH, Best,
Michael
[1] That’s seriously not recommended as you’d lose all fingerprint
anonymity.
When I tried out Whonix before (about 2 or 3 years ago?), I used Qubes. It
seemed too much trouble for what I want; and besides, it seemed like I
couldn't use it for ordinary stuff like email, banking, buying stuff
online ... where you generally need a direct connection. I don't know if you
get round that by changing your apparent location, etc., but that is an issue
for me. I do sometimes have to connect to the outside world for business.
And now, my biggest objection is that Whonix is Debian, thus systemd, and that
violates a core tenet of my religion. A non-systemd version of Whonix, and I
would definitely give it a try.
I seem to recall yourself recommending a Raspberry Pi (or some such?) as a
device to route all my traffic; I believe the question in that earlier thread
was how to send email over a proxy connection? something like that?
At present, I have wiped my system clean of everything tor, tork, privoxy,
config files and whatever else I cuold think of, then reinstalled and started
over for a clean start, but to no avail.
I suspect that my ISP may somehow be blocking the use of privoxy - by blocking
port 8118, perhaps? Maybe I need to find somehow to circumvent their attempts
at censorship and/or surveillance. I just set up OpenDNS again, too, which I
know I ought to have been using anyway. But all to no avail.
The reason I don't quite trust my ISP is that they have recently created a Tor
exit node for themselves. Even if I trusted that they were kindly trying to
protect their users, it seems inherently insecure to use a Tor exit node that
is run by my ISP, so I have blocked their Tor server. And now I cannot get
privoxy to start up, no matter how I've gone about it.
No paranoia here! Just good wholesome fun. Clean living and clean thoughts:
there's the key!
Bill
On Saturday 24 April 2021 12:02:09 pm William Morder
via tde-users wrote:
> On Saturday 24 April 2021 09:25:41 Michael via tde-users wrote:
> > On Saturday 24 April 2021 08:19:50 am William Morder via tde-users
wrote:
Does anybody
have some idea what may have changed, since I have not
changed my configuration since TDE prehistory? Thanks for any help!
Hi Bill,
I’ll offer you a different (better?) solution:
https://www.whonix.org/
for VirtualBox with XFCE
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/VirtualBox/XFCE
2:14 a.m.
New subject: tork-trinity or tor fails to start privoxy? - P.S. what about heads?
On Saturday 24 April 2021 07:33:12 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
When I tried out Whonix before (about 2 or 3 years
ago?), I used Qubes. It
seemed too much trouble for what I want;
Aye! Qubes is a way of life, and (while not having used it myself) does seem
like it’d need a good 20 hours of up front time to get it to work.
and besides, it seemed like I
couldn't use it for ordinary stuff like email, banking, buying stuff
online ... where you generally need a direct connection.
I don't know if
you get round that by changing your apparent location, etc., but that is an
issue for me. I do sometimes have to connect to the outside world for
business.
For doing stuff as ‘you’ (banking/email/whatnot) you’d install a VM (AppVM 1
w/ Devuan etc. in that pic) that has direct network access.
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Qubes
And now, my biggest objection is that Whonix is
Debian, thus systemd, and
that violates a core tenet of my religion. A non-systemd version of Whonix,
and I would definitely give it a try.
Yeah, I don't see that. It'd basically whack fingerprint anonymity.
I seem to recall yourself recommending a Raspberry Pi
(or some such?) as a
device to route all my traffic
Probably (if I did I’ve dropped the idea since). I’ve been noodling on how to
separate my business self from my personal self on the internet for ~20
years(clients are completely arbitrary over what will trigger their
bigotries). A Pi or dedicated router to tor your whole network would work,
but it’d be basically the same as using Whonix for everything (and a lot more
work).
; I believe the question in that earlier
thread was how to send email over a proxy connection? something like that?
Not sure? I send my email through a SSH tunnel direct into my mail server
using raw IP addresses. Makes it pretty hard for anyone to man in the middle
me, plus you’re petty sure your mail isn’t read by your ISP.
I suspect that my ISP may somehow be blocking the use
of privoxy - by
blocking port 8118, perhaps?
I’d guess that’s not accurate? I skimmed Privoxy’s FAQ, and it just looks
like it’s a local service on your own machine filtering/intercepting your own
box’s traffic and then forwarding the traffic on to your regular ISP
modem/router. Port 8118 is used on your box only, so this sounds more like a
Privoxy config issue (maybe you’ve got a wrong value somewhere? hostname?
toggle?).
https://www.privoxy.org/user-manual/config.html
The reason I don't quite trust my ISP is that they
have recently created a
Tor exit node for themselves. Even if I trusted that they were kindly
trying to protect their users, it seems inherently insecure to use a Tor
exit node that is run by my ISP, so I have blocked their Tor server. And
now I cannot get privoxy to start up, no matter how I've gone about it.
Okay, your ISP setting up a tor exit node (should!) have zero to do with any
of their customer’s connections (to tor or otherwise). The tor software on
your computer picks a random entry node (first hop). I do agree though with
blocking the first hop connecting to your own ISP’s tor node, and blocking
its use as an exit node probably makes good sense too, so yeah, just block
its use completely... It’s been a long time since I dug through tor’s config
options, but there was a way to block the first hop from using a country
(e.g. if you’re in the USA, block all ECHELON countries from being the first
hop).
At the point you’re at, I’d try getting Privoxy to work without adding any of
the tor layers and turning off all of its [actions?] (I’m guessing at that,
whatever ‘stuff’ it’s filtering so to speak).
No paranoia here! Just good wholesome fun. Clean
living and clean thoughts:
there's the key!
It’s all fun and games until those guys in black suits and mirrored sunglasses
knock on your door. ;) Seriously though, like you I’ve got zip all to hide,
it’s just the level of ‘big brother’ watching everything is revolting, so
doing ‘my part’ to mitigate some of it seems reasonable.
Case in point.
A month or so back, me and the misses saw a chain store we hadn’t been in, in
20 odd years, so for nostalgia we wandered in, browsed around and left
without buying anything. Approximately six days later she started getting
ads for that store on her Facebook page. My best guess (since she uses
gmail, uhg!) is the big G tracked her phone going into the store, shared/sold
the data to FB, and ‘targeted’ ads for her... So f-ing creepy...
laters,
Michael
3:20 a.m.
New subject: tork-trinity or tor fails to start privoxy? - P.S. what about heads?
On Saturday 24 April 2021 19:14:54 Michael via tde-users wrote:
By the way, I use my smartphone for Internet for one thing only, which is to
listen to online radio on headphones while I'm walking round or doing other
stuff, and don't want to be confined to one room. And when I do this, for
example most of today, I run it over Tor using Orbot. I've had no problems
using Tor on my smartphone; although, after setting it up, I have not dug
into the config to investigate. I look at the messages in Orbot's shell, and
everything looks good, so I trust that I am okay, but I know far less about
smartphones; at least with a desktop or laptop computer, I know enough to
solve most of my own problems, though sometimes (like now) I need to get some
help.
Thanks for all the commentary. It will give me some things to think about.
Myself, I believe that if anybody is seriously watching me, they must be very
disappointed, because I am worse than watching paint dry. Unless one is
deeply interested in my own subjects - I pretty much live between my books
and my music, with occasional stops for food and drink and sleep, bathing and
hygiene - then I can't imagine why anybody would care what I do. If I had a
cat or dog, that would make me more interesting.
I can only guess that I must be marked on somebody's list as a potential
thought criminal; but like the story goes, one can be guilty of thought
crimes and not even know it. I avoided Twitter, FB, Google, social networks,
etc., etc., right from the start, and only engage with technology when it
suits me.
As it happens, the MIBs really *did* show up at my door one evening; weirdest
effin thing in recent memory, although I've actually had more than a few of
these over the past 20 years, and it would take a lot longer to tell. But
this was only maybe a month or two ago. It had been a long day, so I went to
bed early, sometime about 8:30 p.m., I believe. About 9:15 or 9:30, suddenly
there's a loud pounding on my door, and somebody's shouting "SFPD, open the
door NOW!" So (only semi-clothed) I open up, and there are (really!) about
half a dozen guys, all dressed in black, with black woollen skullcaps, no
badges or anything, and they show me a key and demand to know if it's mine.
(It has the same door number as mine; they say it was some guy who is wanted
for something.) But I show them my own key, hanging right there beside the
door; and the one they have doesn't fit. Then they disappear as fast as they
came. So I went downstairs and asked the desk clerk what that was all about,
and he and another guy who was there both said that they showed up in an
unmarked black van, came inside, refused to sign in or identify themselves,
and just forced their way upstairs and went to my door. Well, so maybe it was
all just an honest mistake, and they were looking for somebody else, and not
really trying to spook me; but the unmarked black van and themselves all
dressed like MIBs? Too much strangeness for my simple mind to grasp.
As I write this, I am downloading the Whonix ova file, and will give that a
try. It runs in a VM, right? And if I want to connect to the Internet
directly, that would also use another VM? I think for now that is probably my
best option. Also, I see that Qubes requires 64-bit, and I am running a
Frankenstein self-built computer with a 32-bit motherboard. (I know, I
know ... but it was what was available when I was scrounging. I hear that it
could actually be made to work for 64-bit, but I would have to do some work
on that.) Anyway, if I can get Whonix to run in a VM on my present Devuan box
without systemd, then that will be okay.
I may need some help getting Whonix to run, and figuring out VMs. If I run
into problems (which seems likely, as I am a VM virgin, and have only minimal
experience with Whonix), then I will start a new thread.
Thanks much, and keep thinking those good clean thoughts. "To the pure, all
things are pure."
Bill
On Saturday 24 April 2021 07:33:12 pm William Morder
via tde-users wrote:
Yeah, I didn't think that was right, either, but I couldn't imagine how else
it could happen.
When I tried out Whonix before (about 2 or 3
years ago?), I used Qubes.
It seemed too much trouble for what I want;
Aye! Qubes is a way of life, and (while not having used it myself) does
seem like it’d need a good 20 hours of up front time to get it to work.
and besides, it seemed like I
couldn't use it for ordinary stuff like email, banking, buying stuff
online ... where you generally need a direct connection.
I don't know if
you get round that by changing your apparent location, etc., but that is
an issue for me. I do sometimes have to connect to the outside world for
business.
For doing stuff as ‘you’ (banking/email/whatnot) you’d install a VM (AppVM
1 w/ Devuan etc. in that pic) that has direct network access.
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Qubes
And now, my biggest objection is that Whonix is
Debian, thus systemd, and
that violates a core tenet of my religion. A non-systemd version of
Whonix, and I would definitely give it a try.
Yeah, I don't see that. It'd basically whack fingerprint anonymity.
I seem to recall yourself recommending a
Raspberry Pi (or some such?) as
a device to route all my traffic
Probably (if I did I’ve dropped the idea since). I’ve been noodling on how
to separate my business self from my personal self on the internet for ~20
years(clients are completely arbitrary over what will trigger their
bigotries). A Pi or dedicated router to tor your whole network would work,
but it’d be basically the same as using Whonix for everything (and a lot
more work).
; I believe the question in that earlier
thread was how to send email over a proxy connection? something like
that?
Not sure? I send my email through a SSH tunnel direct into my mail server
using raw IP addresses. Makes it pretty hard for anyone to man in the
middle me, plus you’re petty sure your mail isn’t read by your ISP.
I suspect that my ISP may somehow be blocking the
use of privoxy - by
blocking port 8118, perhaps?
I’d guess that’s not accurate? I skimmed Privoxy’s FAQ, and it just looks
like it’s a local service on your own machine filtering/intercepting your
own box’s traffic and then forwarding the traffic on to your regular ISP
modem/router. Port 8118 is used on your box only, so this sounds more like
a Privoxy config issue (maybe you’ve got a wrong value somewhere?
hostname? toggle?).
https://www.privoxy.org/user-manual/config.html
I already went through my config; I have the old config files, which worked
fine up until a few days ago, and the new config files that were generated by
a fresh installation of Tor, Tork, Privoxy, etc., and I cannot see any
appreciable difference.
The reason I
don't quite trust my ISP is that they have recently created
a Tor exit node for themselves. Even if I trusted that they were kindly
trying to protect their users, it seems inherently insecure to use a Tor
exit node that is run by my ISP, so I have blocked their Tor server. And
now I cannot get privoxy to start up, no matter how I've gone about it.
Okay, your ISP setting up a tor exit node (should!) have zero to do with
any of their customer’s connections (to tor or otherwise). The tor
software on your computer picks a random entry node (first hop). I do
agree though with blocking the first hop connecting to your own ISP’s tor
node, and blocking its use as an exit node probably makes good sense too,
so yeah, just block its use completely... It’s been a long time since I
dug through tor’s config options, but there was a way to block the first
hop from using a country (e.g. if you’re in the USA, block all ECHELON
countries from being the first hop).
At the point you’re at, I’d try getting Privoxy to
work without adding any
of the tor layers and turning off all of its [actions?] (I’m guessing at
that, whatever ‘stuff’ it’s filtering so to speak).
I do keep trying to restart privoxy. I've also tried polipo, and it doesn't
start up, either.
No paranoia
here! Just good wholesome fun. Clean living and clean
thoughts: there's the key!
It’s all fun and games until those guys in black suits and mirrored
sunglasses knock on your door. ;) Seriously though, like you I’ve got zip
all to hide, it’s just the level of ‘big brother’ watching everything is
revolting, so doing ‘my part’ to mitigate some of it seems reasonable.
Case in point.
A month or so back, me and the misses saw a chain store we hadn’t been in,
in 20 odd years, so for nostalgia we wandered in, browsed around and left
without buying anything. Approximately six days later she started getting
ads for that store on her Facebook page. My best guess (since she uses
gmail, uhg!) is the big G tracked her phone going into the store,
shared/sold the data to FB, and ‘targeted’ ads for her... So f-ing
creepy...
laters,
Michael
3:46 p.m.
New subject: tork-trinity or tor fails to start privoxy? - P.S. what about heads?
On Saturday 24 April 2021 10:20:11 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
As I write this, I am downloading the Whonix ova file,
and will give that a
try. It runs in a VM, right? And if I want to connect to the Internet
directly, that would also use another VM? I think for now that is probably
my best option. Also, I see that Qubes requires 64-bit, and I am running a
Frankenstein self-built computer with a 32-bit motherboard.
32 bit might be a deal killer, VB is 64 bit as well.
I may need some help getting Whonix to run, and
figuring out VMs. If I run
into problems (which seems likely, as I am a VM virgin, and have only
minimal experience with Whonix), then I will start a new thread.
Sent instructions in a separate thread.
Best,
Michael
4:21 p.m.
New subject: tork-trinity or tor fails to start privoxy? - P.S. what about heads?
On Sunday 25 April 2021 08:46:00 Michael via tde-users wrote:
On Saturday 24 April 2021 10:20:11 pm William Morder
via tde-users wrote:
Thanks, I saw that. I am considering whether to bother trying to compile from
source in the meantime, or maybe to give heads a try after all. Or, if I can
remember how it is that my present motherboard is actually supposed to be
capable of 64-bit?
I believe it was Nik who saw something that I reported from a shell, who said
that actually I could run 64-bit. A geeky friend who lives here in SF told me
that all I needed to do was "throw a switch" or something like that, but then
neglected to tell me what he meant by that, and now I haven't seen him in a
while, and it's been a few years since I built this machine out of parts.
Once I get myself into a bigger place, I'll get a laptop, and maybe buy or
build a bigger machine, and make it properly 64-bit. I have several extra
(older) hard drives at the moment, and it would be preferable to put them in
this machine, and keep my newer hard drives for the new machine, then have a
laptop for when I go to the library or whatever. I need to have something for
travel, also, as I have a couple rather long trips to make in the
indefinitely near future.
Anyway, how do I find out if indeed this motherboard actually is (or is
capable of running) 64-bit? It was some command or other which gave me the
information in a shell, then Nik (as I recall) said, hey, your machine is
actually 64-bit. When I did the original installation, though, I didn't get
the choice. Also I don't mind buying a new, bigger and better motherboard;
that wouldn't take up more space. If I get any more crowded here, then I will
need to sleep outside.
Bill
As I write this, I am downloading the Whonix ova
file, and will give that
a try. It runs in a VM, right? And if I want to connect to the Internet
directly, that would also use another VM? I think for now that is
probably my best option. Also, I see that Qubes requires 64-bit, and I am
running a Frankenstein self-built computer with a 32-bit motherboard.
32 bit might be a deal killer, VB is 64 bit as well.
I may need some help getting Whonix to run, and
figuring out VMs. If I
run into problems (which seems likely, as I am a VM virgin, and have only
minimal experience with Whonix), then I will start a new thread.
Sent instructions in a separate thread.
Best,
Michael
6:20 p.m.
New subject: tork-trinity or tor fails to start privoxy? - P.S. what about heads?
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 09:21:22 -0700
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
Anyway, how do I find out if indeed this motherboard
actually is (or is
capable of running) 64-bit? It was some command or other which gave me the
information in a shell, then Nik (as I recall) said, hey, your machine is
actually 64-bit. When I did the original installation, though, I didn't get
the choice. Also I don't mind buying a new, bigger and better motherboard;
that wouldn't take up more space. If I get any more crowded here, then I will
need to sleep outside.
Try lscpu . If you get a line that reads:
CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit
or
Architecture: x86_64
you should be running a 64-bit system. Bitness is normally governed by the
CPU, not the mobo (although since one upgrades the two in lockstep
95% of the time, it's hard to say how much that matters).
If you want another computer and your space is *really* restricted, there are
a few tiny single-board systems like the LattePanda that have an x86_64
CPU architecture and are in a similar category to the RPi sizewise.
E. Liddell
7:46 p.m.
New subject: tork-trinity or tor fails to start privoxy? - P.S. what about heads?
On Sunday 25 April 2021 11:20:42 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 09:21:22 -0700
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
Yes, a friend was showing me some of these systems. For me the main problem is
sticking with my priorities in order of importance. And the first thing is to
move out of this place, but I got a plan. ;-) Somewhere with more space
(because my apartment is tiny), a place life moves a little slower, where I
can hear myself think ... you know the place.
Also I am getting old and worn-out. I don't want to buy too much more stuff,
because then I must move it yet again. I will move into a bigger place, then
I can fill it with even more stuff. It is like that joke by George Carlin: we
keep moving into bigger places because we keep getting more stuff.
Anyway, how do I find out if indeed this
motherboard actually is (or is
capable of running) 64-bit? It was some command or other which gave me
the information in a shell, then Nik (as I recall) said, hey, your
machine is actually 64-bit. When I did the original installation, though,
I didn't get the choice. Also I don't mind buying a new, bigger and
better motherboard; that wouldn't take up more space. If I get any more
crowded here, then I will need to sleep outside.
Try lscpu . If you get a line that reads:
CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit
or
Architecture: x86_64
you should be running a 64-bit system. Bitness is normally governed by the
CPU, not the mobo (although since one upgrades the two in lockstep
95% of the time, it's hard to say how much that matters).
If you want another computer and your space is *really* restricted, there
are a few tiny single-board systems like the LattePanda that have an x86_64
CPU architecture and are in a similar category to the RPi sizewise.
E. Liddell
Thanks, let's give it a try, see what comes up. And maybe it is the CPU that
matters; I'm only repeating what I remember from 2 or 3 years ago. After that
I moved to Debian, then Devuan, and would be glad to stay here as it has been
stable and dependable ... until now.
I really don't want to run systemd, but if I can run a Devuan VM inside Qubes,
and run Whonix as well, then setting up a 64-bit machine would be worth the
trouble. Whether I buy new hardware to upgrade my machine, or figure why I
have a 64-bit machine that insists on running as 32-bit, I would prefer to
live the dream of being in control of my own machine.
So my plan for this machine is to get it running 64-bit, somehow or other.
That might keep it all manageable until I can relocate.
Bill
8:20 p.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
Starting a new thread, because I caught a glimpse of where this is heading.
Dig it: 64-bit. Whenever I've installed any OS, I never got the choice. After
I heard from Nik or whoever that it looked to be 64-bit, I tried some 64-bit
installation discs, but of course get the error message "wrong architecture".
Bill
lscpu
Architecture: i686
CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit
Byte Order: Little Endian
Address sizes: 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
CPU(s): 2
On-line CPU(s) list: 0,1
Thread(s) per core: 1
Core(s) per socket: 2
Socket(s): 1
Vendor ID: GenuineIntel
CPU family: 6
Model: 15
Model name: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz
Stepping: 13
CPU MHz: 1631.444
CPU max MHz: 2200.0000
CPU min MHz: 1200.0000
BogoMIPS: 4399.86
L1d cache: 32K
L1i cache: 32K
L2 cache: 1024K
Flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca
cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm
constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts cpuid aperfmperf pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl
est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm lahf_lm dtherm
8:47 p.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 13:20:32 -0700
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
Starting a new thread, because I caught a glimpse of
where this is heading.
Dig it: 64-bit. Whenever I've installed any OS, I never got the choice. After
I heard from Nik or whoever that it looked to be 64-bit, I tried some 64-bit
installation discs, but of course get the error message "wrong architecture".
Bill
lscpu
Architecture: i686
CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit
[...]
Model name: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU
E2200 @ 2.20GHz
Intel's site confirms: this is a 64-bit chip, although it's a fairly old one
(launched 2007).
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/33925/intel-pentium-pr…
There is a small possibility that you have it installed in a mobo with some weird
incompatible BIOS, especially if the mobo is older than the processor. Used
motherboards with the right socket type seem to be common and not too
expensive, though.
E. Liddell
9:01 p.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
On Sunday 25 April 2021 13:47:52 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 13:20:32 -0700
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
Okay, so one thing at a time. Now to determine if I need to get a new
motherboard. Money isn't so much the problem any more, but I would keep this
one if it can be made to run 64-bit. When I get into a new place, then I will
build or buy new stuff.
So, is there some way to find out if I have such a "weird incompatible BIOS"?
Bill
Starting a new thread, because I caught a glimpse
of where this is
heading.
Dig it: 64-bit. Whenever I've installed any OS, I never got the choice.
After I heard from Nik or whoever that it looked to be 64-bit, I tried
some 64-bit installation discs, but of course get the error message
"wrong architecture".
Bill
lscpu
Architecture: i686
CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit
[...]
Model name: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual
CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz
Intel's site confirms: this is a 64-bit chip, although it's a fairly old
one (launched 2007).
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/33925/intel-pentium-pr
ocessor-e2200-1m-cache-2-20-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html
There is a small possibility that you have it installed in a mobo with some
weird incompatible BIOS, especially if the mobo is older than the
processor. Used motherboards with the right socket type seem to be common
and not too expensive, though.
E. Liddell
11:06 p.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 14:01:30 -0700
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
We need a name and version number for the BIOS, I guess. Or else
the make and model of the motherboard.
The BIOS name should show up on screen at the beginning of the
boot sequence. Version number may be there too, or somewhere in
the BIOS configuration screens.
The motherboard's information might be in the BIOS configurator as
well, or you might be able to find it by opening the case and checking for
information silkscreened on the board itself.
That's the best I can do. We've gone somewhat beyond my areas of
expertise here. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure the combination of
a 32-bit BIOS and a 64-bit processor is even possible, but it seems
like a good idea to rule it out.
E. Liddell
There is a
small possibility that you have it installed in a mobo with some
weird incompatible BIOS, especially if the mobo is older than the
processor. Used motherboards with the right socket type seem to be common
and not too expensive, though.
E. Liddell
Okay, so one thing at a time. Now to determine if I need to get a new
motherboard. Money isn't so much the problem any more, but I would keep this
one if it can be made to run 64-bit. When I get into a new place, then I will
build or buy new stuff.
So, is there some way to find out if I have such a "weird incompatible BIOS"?
26 Apr
26 Apr
2:48 a.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
On Sunday 25 April 2021 16:06:10 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 14:01:30 -0700
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
We need a name and version number for the BIOS, I guess. Or else
the make and model of the motherboard.
The BIOS name should show up on screen at the beginning of the
boot sequence. Version number may be there too, or somewhere in
the BIOS configuration screens.
The motherboard's information might be in the BIOS configurator as
well, or you might be able to find it by opening the case and checking for
information silkscreened on the board itself.
That's the best I can do. We've gone somewhat beyond my areas of
expertise here. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure the combination of
a 32-bit BIOS and a 64-bit processor is even possible, but it seems
like a good idea to rule it out.
E. Liddell
Awaiting my next reboot to check out the BIOS. I do thank yourself and Michael
for all the help, as I realize that this has ventured outside what is
strictly a TDE-Trinity problem; although, of course, it started with the
question of why tork-trinity cannot start privoxy as usual.
Regarding computer expertise, I am the one who is always playing catch-up to
everybody else who participates in the list. I am one of those
vaguely "creative types" (or so I hear), and have no head for either
technology or business.
I did take some computer classes in high school, long long ago (maybe
1973-1974?). We all studied technical manuals for a few weeks, then punched
holes in IBM cards. Like everybody else, I ran my punch card through a sort
of conveyor-belt sort of thing, and mine successfully turned on a light bulb,
so I got passing marks. However, I confess that I could not foresee how such
an advanced technology would ever be useful to me, as it would be easier and
quicker just to walk across the room and turn on the light.
Big thanks to everybody who puts up with my endless questions!
Bill
There is
a small possibility that you have it installed in a mobo with
some weird incompatible BIOS, especially if the mobo is older than the
processor. Used motherboards with the right socket type seem to be
common and not too expensive, though.
E. Liddell
Okay, so one thing at a time. Now to determine if I need to get a new
motherboard. Money isn't so much the problem any more, but I would keep
this one if it can be made to run 64-bit. When I get into a new place,
then I will build or buy new stuff.
So, is there some way to find out if I have such a "weird incompatible
BIOS"?
8:47 a.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
On Sunday 25 April 2021 16:06:10 E. Liddell wrote:
to find out if I have such a "weird incompatible
after reboot - the BIOS
copied from the boot sequence, and from digging through the BIOS itself
ASUS P5GC-VM
ACPI BIOS revision 2007
AMI BIOS 0407 build date 09/22/08
I can't find anything else (so far) from digging round in my system info, but
maybe I don't know where to look.
Bill
P.S. However, I did just discover this nifty little command, lshw, and here is
the output. (There's actually much more information, but it isn't pertinent
to the CPU and motherboard.)
lshw
<hostname>
description: Desktop Computer
product: System Product Name (To Be Filled By O.E.M.)
vendor: System manufacturer
version: Rev 1.xx
serial: SYS-1234567890
width: 32 bits
capabilities: smbios-2.4 dmi-2.4 smp-1.4 smp
configuration: boot=normal chassis=desktop cpus=1 family=To Be Filled By
O.E.M. sku=To Be Filled By O.E.M. uuid=60770470-8DFE-D511-9F64-001D607F8E50
*-core
description: Motherboard
product: P5GC-VM
vendor: ASUSTeK Computer INC.
physical id: 0
version: Rev x.xx
serial: MS1C79B00G03073
slot: To Be Filled By O.E.M.
*-firmware
description: BIOS
vendor: American Megatrends Inc.
physical id: 0
version: 0407
date: 09/22/2008
size: 64KiB
capacity: 512KiB
capabilities: isa pci pnp apm upgrade shadowing escd cdboot
bootselect socketedrom edd int13floppy1200 int13floppy720 int
BIOS"?
We need a name and version number for the BIOS, I guess. Or else
the make and model of the motherboard.
The BIOS name should show up on screen at the beginning of the
boot sequence. Version number may be there too, or somewhere in
the BIOS configuration screens.
The motherboard's information might be in the BIOS configurator as
well, or you might be able to find it by opening the case and checking for
information silkscreened on the board itself.
That's the best I can do. We've gone somewhat beyond my areas of
expertise here. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure the combination of
a 32-bit BIOS and a 64-bit processor is even possible, but it seems
like a good idea to rule it out.
E. Liddell
9:16 a.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
William Morder via tde-users composed on 2021-04-26 01:47 (UTC-0700):
P.S. However, I did just discover this nifty little
command, lshw, and here is
the output. (There's actually much more information, but it isn't pertinent
to the CPU and motherboard.)
The CPU part isn't relevant? Why did
you leave it off? I lost track of the reason
for this thread a while back.
I have 3 Dells using that same 945 chipset family and thus 950 graphics too on 2
of the 3, the other with an ATI card in its PCIe slot. I also have an HP with
945/950, but it has an NVidia card installed.
--
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
9:33 a.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
On Monday 26 April 2021 02:16:11 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder via tde-users composed on 2021-04-26
01:47 (UTC-0700):
Sorry if it's unclear; I am a little out of my depth, but trying to catch up.
CPU and motherboard information are to determine if my system is really 32-bit
(as "it" always tells me), or if I can make it run as 64-bit. It seems like
all the information I'm getting says it's 64-bit, but whenever I've tried to
install a 64-bit system, I get a message that says "wrong architecture".
I want to install Qubes+Whonix (or some combination with Whonix). Both Qubes
and Whonix are now 64-bit only, unless I compile from source, but that is too
much bother for what I want. It would be easier just to buy a new CPU and/or
motherboard. But I want to hold off on any more purchases (and more clutter)
until I can get myself moved into a bigger place.
In any case, 32-bit machines are clearly on their way out, and I really ought
to get with it. I wanted 64-bit to begin with, but 32-bit was all I could
find, when I was buying parts to build this present machine.
So the question is: Do I really have a 64-bit machine here, as it seems; and
if so, why am I forced to run it as 32-bit?
Thanks Felix. Any help is appreciated.
Bill
P.S. However, I did just discover this nifty
little command, lshw, and
here is the output. (There's actually much more information, but it isn't
pertinent to the CPU and motherboard.)
The CPU part isn't relevant? Why did you leave it off? I lost track of the
reason for this thread a while back.
I have 3 Dells using that same 945 chipset family and thus 950 graphics too
on 2 of the 3, the other with an ATI card in its PCIe slot. I also have an
HP with 945/950, but it has an NVidia card installed.
9:48 a.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
William Morder via tde-users composed on 2021-04-26 02:33 (UTC-0700):
So the question is: Do I really have a 64-bit machine
here, as it seems; and
if so, why am I forced to run it as 32-bit?
lshw should report CPU model. So should inxi -C.
--
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
9:58 a.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
On Monday 26 April 2021 02:48:34 Felix Miata wrote:
inxi -C
I believed we had already got most
information on the CPU, but here goes.
inxi -C
CPU: Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Pentium Dual E2200 bits: 64 type:
MCP L2 cache: 1024 KiB
Speed: 1300 MHz min/max: 1200/2200 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1791
2: 2098
from lshw
*-cpu
description: CPU
product: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz
vendor: Intel Corp.
physical id: 4
bus info: cpu@0
version: 6.15.13
serial: 0000-06FD-0000-0000-0000-0000
slot: LGA 775
size: 1528MHz
capacity: 3800MHz
width: 64 bits
clock: 200MHz
capabilities: boot fpu fpu_exception wp vme de pse tsc msr pae mce
cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2
ss ht tm pbe nx x86-64 constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts cpuid aperfmperf
pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm lahf_lm dtherm cpufreq
configuration: id=1
*-cache:0
description: L1 cache
physical id: 5
slot: L1-Cache
size: 32KiB
capacity: 32KiB
capabilities: internal write-back data
configuration: level=1
*-cache:1
description: L2 cache
physical id: 6
slot: L2-Cache
size: 1MiB
capacity: 1MiB
capabilities: internal write-back data
configuration: level=2
*-logicalcpu:0
description: Logical CPU
physical id: 1.1
width: 64 bits
capabilities: logical
*-logicalcpu:1
description: Logical CPU
physical id: 1.2
width: 64 bits
capabilities: logical
*-memory
description: System Memory
physical id: 32
slot: System board or motherboard
size: 2GiB
capacity: 2GiB
*-bank:0
description: DIMM DDR2 Synchronous 333 MHz (3.0 ns)
product: PartNum0
vendor: Manufacturer0
physical id: 0
serial: SerNum0
slot: DIMM0
size: 1GiB
width: 64 bits
clock: 333MHz (3.0ns)
*-bank:1
description: DIMM [empty]
product: PartNum1
vendor: Manufacturer1
physical id: 1
serial: SerNum1
slot: DIMM1
*-bank:2
description: DIMM DDR2 Synchronous 333 MHz (3.0 ns)
product: PartNum2
vendor: Manufacturer2
physical id: 2
serial: SerNum2
slot: DIMM2
size: 1GiB
width: 64 bits
clock: 333MHz (3.0ns)
*-bank:3
description: DIMM [empty]
product: PartNum3
vendor: Manufacturer3
physical id: 3
serial: SerNum3
slot: DIMM3
*-pci
description: Host bridge
product: 82945G/GZ/P/PL Memory Controller Hub
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 100
bus info: pci@0000:00:00.0
version: 02
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
*-display
description: VGA compatible controller
product: 82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics Controller
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 2
bus info: pci@0000:00:02.0
version: 02
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: msi pm vga_controller bus_master cap_list rom
configuration: driver=i915 latency=0
resources: irq:16 memory:dfe00000-dfe7ffff ioport:9800(size=8)
memory:e0000000-efffffff memory:dfe80000-dfebffff memory:c0000-dffff
10:21 a.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
William Morder composed on 2021-04-26 02:58 (UTC-0700):
I believed we had already got most information on the
CPU, but here goes.
inxi -C
CPU: Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Pentium Dual E2200 bits: 64 type: MCP L2
cache: 1024 KiB
Speed: 1300 MHz min/max: 1200/2200 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1791 2: 2098
Clearly it's a 64 bit:
<https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/33925/intel-pentium-processor-e2200-1m-cache-2-20-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html>
Have you tried clearing CMOS, or upgrading BIOS? There is such a thing
as BIOS corruption, which clearing might help. Rather than a quick clear,
I'd take the 2032 battery out overnight with the PS unplugged, then do
the jumper clear after putting the battery back in
That CPU will work in a lot of newer motherboards that would provide a
graphics upgrade from 950 to something better. If looking, try for a
G41 or G45 chipset board. Lesser chipsets better than 945G include 965G,
G31 & G33. Some G41 boards use DDR3 or DDR3+DDR2 RAM, while all earlier
Socket LGA775 are DDR2. If you are using a PCIe graphics card, then P
models instead of G would also suffice.
--
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
10:38 a.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
Felix Miata composed on 2021-04-26 06:21 (UTC-0400):
That CPU will work in a lot of newer motherboards that
would provide a
graphics upgrade from 950 to something better. If looking, try for a
G41 or G45 chipset board. Lesser chipsets better than 945G include 965G,
G31 & G33. Some G41 boards use DDR3 or DDR3+DDR2 RAM, while all earlier
Socket LGA775 are DDR2. If you are using a PCIe graphics card, then P
models instead of G would also suffice.
Or spend as little as $4 to try a better CPU:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/324590949639?epid=166559489&hash=item4b9320d507:g:36oAAOSwU6ZgchOj>
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/224439326820?epid=74095848&hash=item3441a05864:g:utEAAOSwGPlgcgxl>
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/193052387163?hash=item2cf2d1a75b:g:mSMAAOSw~fhdVxj->
--
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
10:43 a.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
On Monday 26 April 2021 03:21:41 Felix Miata wrote:
William Morder composed on 2021-04-26 02:58
(UTC-0700):
Eventually I will either upgrade this, or build a new box, or both; but with
the prospect of moving on my mind, I don't want to accumulate yet more junk
that must be moved. So if I can get this thing to work as 64-bit, without
adding more to my burden, that would be best.
By the way, this did start out as a strictly TDE-Trinity question: namely, Why
does tork-trinity fail to start privoxy? I can't get privoxy to start, no
matter what I've tried. (I've also been having some other security issues;
but I get worn out trying to fight against these tendencies or problems that
keep repeating themselves. Better to dig out the root cause.) Then Michael
recommended that I try Whonix, and if I do that I might as well do it right
with Qubes+Whonix, if possible, but that means I need a 64-bit machine.
So I did not intend to make these threads so diffuse and meandering, just that
one question led to another.
Thanks for the recommendations, as well as helping to look under the hood.
Bill
I believed we had already got most information on
the CPU, but here goes.
inxi -C
CPU: Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Pentium Dual E2200 bits: 64
type: MCP L2 cache: 1024 KiB Speed: 1300 MHz min/max: 1200/2200 MHz Core
speeds (MHz): 1: 1791 2: 2098
Clearly it's a 64 bit:
<https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/33925/intel-pentium-p
rocessor-e2200-1m-cache-2-20-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html>
Have you tried clearing CMOS, or upgrading BIOS? There is such a thing
as BIOS corruption, which clearing might help. Rather than a quick clear,
I'd take the 2032 battery out overnight with the PS unplugged, then do
the jumper clear after putting the battery back in
That CPU will work in a lot of newer motherboards that would provide a
graphics upgrade from 950 to something better. If looking, try for a
G41 or G45 chipset board. Lesser chipsets better than 945G include 965G,
G31 & G33. Some G41 boards use DDR3 or DDR3+DDR2 RAM, while all earlier
Socket LGA775 are DDR2. If you are using a PCIe graphics card, then P
models instead of G would also suffice.
11:39 a.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 01:47:46 -0700
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
after reboot - the BIOS
copied from the boot sequence, and from digging through the BIOS itself
ASUS P5GC-VM
ACPI BIOS revision 2007
AMI BIOS 0407 build date 09/22/08
I can't find anything else (so far) from digging round in my system info, but
maybe I don't know where to look.
That's more than enough. Somebody put a copy of the manual for this
board online. I can't access the whole thing, but the table of contents
confirms that it supports 64-bit operation.
Maybe Felix is right about the BIOS being corrupt. It looks like ASUS
still provides a BIOS file download:
https://www.asus.com/us/support/CPU/1/22/39/6/PYvbfOokwxUzJky3/C20090604160…
How to actually flash it is another question.
What happens if you just try to boot (not install) from a 64-bit-only
live CD (any distro)?
E. Liddell
12:58 p.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
E. Liddell composed on 2021-04-26 07:39 (UTC-0400):
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 01:47:46 -0700 William Morder
<users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
> ASUS P5GC-VM
Unless I'm missing something, that URL is for an Asus P5GC-MX, not P5GC-VM. This
looks like the 2 years newer correct one:
<https://www.asus.com/us/supportonly/P5GC-VM/HelpDesk_BIOS/>
<https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/socket775/P5GC-VM/P5GC-VM-ASUS-0408.zip>
--
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
1:35 p.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
On Monday 26 April 2021 04:39:02 E. Liddell wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 01:47:46 -0700
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
Answer to the last question in your list: "wrong architecture".
To flash the BIOS I will need some help. I can manage taking out the battery
and unplugging the power, etc. Done it before, though, a couple years ago,
and nothing happened. I seem to recall that I actually had to replace the
battery, though. Maybe that caused a problem? but it always ran as 32-bit,
never got the choice otherwise.
Bill
Bill
after reboot - the BIOS
copied from the boot sequence, and from digging through the BIOS itself
ASUS P5GC-VM
ACPI BIOS revision 2007
AMI BIOS 0407 build date 09/22/08
I can't find anything else (so far) from digging round in my system info,
but maybe I don't know where to look.
That's more than enough. Somebody put a copy of the manual for this
board online. I can't access the whole thing, but the table of contents
confirms that it supports 64-bit operation.
Maybe Felix is right about the BIOS being corrupt. It looks like ASUS
still provides a BIOS file download:
https://www.asus.com/us/support/CPU/1/22/39/6/PYvbfOokwxUzJky3/C20090604160
704/
How to actually flash it is another question.
What happens if you just try to boot (not install) from a 64-bit-only
live CD (any distro)?
E. Liddell
11:36 a.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
hi all!
Anno domini 2021 Sun, 25 Apr 13:20:32 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
Starting a new thread, because I caught a glimpse of
where this is heading.
Dig it: 64-bit. Whenever I've installed any OS, I never got the choice. After
I heard from Nik or whoever that it looked to be 64-bit, I tried some 64-bit
installation discs, but of course get the error message "wrong architecture".
Bill
lscpu
Architecture: i686
CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit
Byte Order: Little Endian
Address sizes: 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
CPU(s): 2
On-line CPU(s) list: 0,1
Thread(s) per core: 1
Core(s) per socket: 2
Socket(s): 1
Vendor ID: GenuineIntel
CPU family: 6
Model: 15
Model name: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2200 @ 2.20GHz
Stepping: 13
CPU MHz: 1631.444
CPU max MHz: 2200.0000
CPU min MHz: 1200.0000
BogoMIPS: 4399.86
L1d cache: 32K
L1i cache: 32K
L2 cache: 1024K
Flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca
cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm
constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts cpuid aperfmperf pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl
est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm lahf_lm dtherm
____________________________________________________
tde-users mailing list -- users(a)trinitydesktop.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
Web mail archive available at
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
A bit late to the party this time. I have a XEON 3360 on a Gigabyte MB from 2009. It runs
64bit without big problems, but it crases ~ ever odd hour or so with Chimera (kernel
5.10), but it runs beowulf without any problem (kernel 4.19?). Memory is OK. I guess,
these CPUs are not up to the task any more. The C2D in my T60/T61/X61 still prk like a
charm.
Nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
2:48 p.m.
New subject: BINGO! 64-bit!
On Sunday 25 April 2021 03:20:32 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Starting a new thread, because I caught a glimpse of
where this is heading.
Ah, yeah, haven't read the rest of this thread, hopefulyy this isn't a dup.
inxi -F
should get you all you need about what hardware you've got
https://pcpartpicker.com/
should allow you to find what's the cheapest way to add/replace to your
existing system to get to where you need to be.
off to do workiy type stuff, catch ya next weekend,
Michael
27 Jul
27 Jul
12:39 a.m.
New subject: wrong timestamp - new thread - OT
If we are to continue this discussion, then we ought to start a completely new
thread, so that it doesn't get merged with the original thread. And so I have
created it.
On Monday 26 July 2021 17:13:13 Mike Bird wrote:
On Mon July 26 2021 16:43:46 William Morder via
tde-users wrote:
Yeah, sorry! I stand corrected.
E.Liddell's email was later in the thread, but Edward's was not a direct
response to himself.
I am still mystified about why the timestamps are apparently out-of-sequence,
regardless who responded to whom. Did it really take nearly two days for an
email to be delivered?
Also there is the fact that this occurred before, about 9 months ago. (I could
attach yet another screenshot, but the incident is not fresh.)
I did try changing Kmail configuration to organize all emails by threads. This
would be helpful for TDE's mailing list; however, I must choose to organize
all emails by threads, or none, and cannot choose only TDE's folder to be
threaded.
It may be that I am wrong here. (It did happen once before, 16 April 1964,
about 3 pm.) But as I say, timestamps only get messed up with TDE, and it has
happened before, which makes me wonder.
Perhaps there is some perfectly reasonable explanation (nothing to worry
about, nothing to see here), and I did not intend for this to get so
involved. However, it makes no sense that the time stamps are so far
out-of-sequence, that earlier emails follow later emails by nearly two days.
Or can somebody else give an plausible explanation?
Bill
Edward (7.24.2021 08:45) replied to E.Liddell
(7.25.2021 19:46).
I'm sorry but I don't see anything that indicates Edward reply
was a response to Lidell. The >>> in the message appear to
be correct, albeit somebody removed Michael's timestamp.
I've attached a screenshot showing the threading (Folder/Options).
--Mike
12:52 a.m.
New subject: wrong timestamp - new thread - OT
Hi Bill,
On Mon July 26 2021 17:39:09 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I am still mystified about why the timestamps are
apparently
out-of-sequence, regardless who responded to whom. Did it really take
nearly two days for an email to be delivered?
You can see where the delay occurred by looking at the message
headers (View / View Source). Newer headers are tacked on to
the top so they show you deliveries to your mailbox and then
to your mail server and work back through the list server to
the sender's submission to his mail server.
However to see the reason for the delay you'd probably need
to see the mail server logs where the delay occurred.
A common reason for a delay is a temporary false mail server
Realtime Blackhole Listing (RBL).
I did try changing Kmail configuration to organize all
emails by threads.
This would be helpful for TDE's mailing list; however, I must choose to
organize all emails by threads, or none, and cannot choose only TDE's
folder to be threaded.
The Folders/Options settings are per-folder.
--Mike
1:02 a.m.
New subject: wrong timestamp - new thread - OT
On Monday 26 July 2021 17:52:01 Mike Bird wrote:
Hi Bill,
On Mon July 26 2021 17:39:09 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
This is more the sort of answer I wanted. I am not necessarily a techie, but I
appreciate knowing the technical details sometimes.
I did view source for the emails, but I just skimmed through. Maybe it is just
empty curiosity, but I tend to notice little discrepancies like that.
Sometimes they lead to interesting places, sometimes not.
Bill
I am still mystified about why the timestamps are
apparently
out-of-sequence, regardless who responded to whom. Did it really take
nearly two days for an email to be delivered?
You can see where the delay occurred by looking at the message
headers (View / View Source). Newer headers are tacked on to
the top so they show you deliveries to your mailbox and then
to your mail server and work back through the list server to
the sender's submission to his mail server.
However to see the reason for the delay you'd probably need
to see the mail server logs where the delay occurred.
A common reason for a delay is a temporary false mail server
Realtime Blackhole Listing (RBL).
I did try changing Kmail configuration to
organize all emails by threads.
This would be helpful for TDE's mailing list; however, I must choose to
organize all emails by threads, or none, and cannot choose only TDE's
folder to be threaded.
The Folders/Options settings are per-folder.
--Mike
2:40 a.m.
New subject: [users] wrong timestamp - new thread - OT
On 2021-07-26 19:39:09 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I did try changing Kmail configuration to organize all
emails by threads.
This would be helpful for TDE's mailing list; however, I must choose to
organize all emails by threads, or none, and cannot choose only TDE's
folder to be threaded.
There are two ways to set threading:
in Settings => Configure => Appearance, tab Message List (presumably a global
setting)
in Folder => Thread Messages (folder-specific)
and Folder => Thread Messages also by Sender (folder-specific)
Leslie
--
Operating System: Linux
Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.3 x86_64
Desktop Environment: Trinity
Qt: 3.5.0
TDE: R14.0.10
tde-config: 1.0
3:07 a.m.
New subject: wrong timestamp - new thread - OT
On Monday 26 July 2021 07:39:09 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
If we are to continue this discussion, then we ought
to start a completely
new thread, so that it doesn't get merged with the original thread. And so
I have created it.
On Monday 26 July 2021 17:13:13 Mike Bird wrote:
> On Mon July 26 2021 16:43:46 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
> > Edward (7.24.2021 08:45) replied to E.Liddell (7.25.2021 19:46).
>
> I'm sorry but I don't see anything that indicates Edward reply
> was a response to Lidell. The >>> in the message appear to
> be correct, albeit somebody removed Michael's timestamp.
I am still mystified about why the timestamps are
apparently
out-of-sequence, regardless who responded to whom. Did it really take
nearly two days for an email to be delivered?
Ah, yeah it did! Short answer is it got hung up internal to gmx.net for those
~two days. Below are the very stripped down headers:
PS: Leslie, thanks for showing where the folder threading is. I have mine
set for the TDE folder, but couldn't re-find it to set a different folder.
########
Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18])
by mail.trinitydesktop.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-14~deb10u1) with
ESMTPS id 16QM7PBH012278
(version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT)
for <users(a)trinitydesktop.org>rg>; Mon, 26 Jul 2021 22:07:28 GMT
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net;
X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c
Received: from [10.0.0.7] ([73.60.113.230]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005
[212.227.17.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MWzfv-1laDAi3G5R-00XMR8 for
<users(a)trinitydesktop.org>rg>; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 14:28:53 +0200
To: users(a)trinitydesktop.org
From: Edward <(a)caramail.com>
5:27 p.m.
New subject: wrong timestamp - new thread - OT
On 7/26/21 11:07 PM, Michael wrote:
On Monday 26 July 2021 07:39:09 pm William Morder via
tde-users wrote:
Which might explain why some of my previous emails never made it to the
list, forcing me to re-send them.
--
Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64)
If we are to continue this discussion, then we
ought to start a completely
new thread, so that it doesn't get merged with the original thread. And so
I have created it.
On Monday 26 July 2021 17:13:13 Mike Bird wrote:
Ah, yeah it did! Short answer is it
got hung up internal to gmx.net for those
~two days. Below are the very stripped down headers: On Mon July 26 2021 16:43:46 William Morder via
tde-users wrote:
I am still mystified
about why the timestamps are apparently
out-of-sequence, regardless who responded to whom. Did it really take
nearly two days for an email to be delivered? Edward (7.24.2021 08:45) replied to E.Liddell
(7.25.2021 19:46).
I'm sorry but I don't see anything that indicates Edward
reply
was a response to Lidell. The >>> in the message appear to
be correct, albeit somebody removed Michael's timestamp.
5:38 p.m.
New subject: wrong timestamp - new thread - OT
On 7/26/21 11:07 PM, Michael wrote:
On Monday 26 July 2021 07:39:09 pm William Morder via
tde-users wrote:
According to RFC 5321, section 4.5.4.1:
I am still mystified about why the timestamps are
apparently
out-of-sequence, regardless who responded to whom. Did it really take
nearly two days for an email to be delivered?
Ah, yeah it did! Short answer is it
got hung up internal to gmx.net for those
~two days. Below are the very stripped down headers: Retries continue until the message is transmitted or
the sender gives
up; the give-up time generally needs to be at least*4-5 days*. It MAY
be appropriate to set a shorter maximum number of retries for non-
delivery notifications and equivalent error messages than for
standard messages. The parameters to the retry algorithm MUST be
configurable.
4-5 days would appear to be the allowable amount of time to deliver an
e-mail, before the server bounces it back to the sender.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5321#section-4.5.4.1
--
Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64)
6:12 p.m.
New subject: wrong timestamp - new thread - OT
On Tuesday 27 July 2021 10:38:57 Edward wrote:
On 7/26/21 11:07 PM, Michael wrote:
Yes, I do know that emails *can* be delayed, and it doesn't mean anything
especially weird or suspicious is going on. Sometimes those discrepancies
like out-of-sequence time stamps mean nothing, and lead to nowhere.
Most of my emails, sent or received, take only a few seconds to be delivered,
no matter how far apart we may be in physical space; emails are seldom
delayed more than a few minutes. On rare occasions I have had them arrive the
next day, but never more than 24 hours.
When such delays happen repeatedly, especially with the same person, or the
same mailing list, then I start to wonder if there is some common factor
involved.
In the earlier occurrence on the TDE mailing list, I believe it was one Dan
Youngquist whose emails were regularly out-of-sequence, so that he always
appeared to be writing from about two hours in the future; and it wasn't just
one or two emails, but several -- enough to notice. As I recall, something in
his system was misconfigured (maybe UTC/local settings?) so that he appeared
to be in a different time zone.
Anyway, unless somebody has a startling revelation that will change
everything, then my curiosity, at least, is satisfied. This most likely was
due to some ordinary, mundane cause. I did not foresee that it would become
such an involved discussion, but it's all good.
Bill
On Monday 26 July 2021 07:39:09 pm William Morder
via tde-users wrote:
According to RFC 5321, section 4.5.4.1:
I am still mystified about why the timestamps are
apparently
out-of-sequence, regardless who responded to whom. Did it really take
nearly two days for an email to be delivered?
Ah, yeah it did! Short answer is it got hung up internal to gmx.net for
those ~two days. Below are the very stripped down headers: Retries continue until the message is transmitted
or the sender gives
up; the give-up time generally needs to be at least*4-5 days*. It
MAY be appropriate to set a shorter maximum number of retries for non-
delivery notifications and equivalent error messages than for standard
messages. The parameters to the retry algorithm MUST be configurable.
4-5 days would appear to be the allowable amount of time to deliver an
e-mail, before the server bounces it back to the sender.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5321#section-4.5.4.1
28 Jul
28 Jul
8:46 a.m.
New subject: [users] wrong timestamp - new thread - OT
On 2021-07-27 13:12:22 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
When such delays happen repeatedly, especially with
the same person, or the
same mailing list, then I start to wonder if there is some common factor
involved.
You might want to keep in mind the prevalence of ransomware attacks these days.
Leslie
--
Operating System: Linux
Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.3 x86_64
Desktop Environment: Trinity
Qt: 3.5.0
TDE: R14.0.10
tde-config: 1.0
27 Jul
27 Jul
1:37 a.m.
New subject: Kmail settings - threaded emails by folder?
Since Mike Bird said it, I will believe it is possible, but I cannot find that
particular setting in my own Kmail. When I change Kmail settings, it changes
everything for all emails. I don't see any option to do that either in the
general settings, nor by clicking on the TDE folder.
While I am asking about Kmail ...
Also I remember Leslie asking about Kmail templates. It would be nice to make
templates specially for each correspondent (for example, the TDE mailing
list), so that we don't have everybody's emails exposed if they care about
that kind of thing.
As it is now, I can't just hit reply and send to the TDE list without sending
out my personal email. I don't care so much about that, but then sometimes
people unintentionally send one another personal emails (instead of to the
list). This has happened to myself and others, too. Being able to create a
template that covers both send and reply would prevent those occasional
mistakes.
All in all, I still like Kmail better than other clients; I tried Thunderbird
and Seamonkey and I forget how many others. I sort of like Claws and
Sylpheed, but they aren't quite as good. It would be nice to be able to link
them to Kmail sometimes, so that I can use Claws or Sylpheed portable
versions when it may happen that I am "out there" in the wilds of physical
space, then dump everything back into Kmail in my home computer. Right now I
do that by simple copy-and-paste.
I am running Devuan Beowulf and the latest TDE PTB, upgraded about a week ago.
Thanks for any help.
Bill
4 Aug
4 Aug
4:17 a.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
Okay, so riddle me this. I have totally disabled power management for my
system, created a user profile, made it the same as my default profile so
that it ought to be the only profile that loads. (I do this through the
Trinity Control Center / System Administration / Monitor & Display / Power
Managment.)
Yet my system still goes into hibernate mode (or so I believe) after it has
been left unattended (that is, no direct actions involving myself).
This is a desktop system, built by myself out of parts, but I am running
Devuan Beowulf and the most recent upgrade from the PTB repository. I don't
need to use power management, since there is no battery to worry about.
This annoys me on a daily basis, because I get up in the morning (about noon
or so), and find that it has gone into hibernate mode, despite the fact that
I have left some large downloads unattended, trusting that they could be left
to manage themselves. The power light blinks, the monitor has been shut off,
etc.; and when I press the power button, it springs back to life, except that
I have been disconnected and whatever I have left running has been
interrupted only partially finished.
It used to be I could create a profile, set it to run as the default, and
everything would be fine. But now it always goes into hibernate mode, no
matter what I do. I have also tried to create the profile in administrator
mode, but the result is always the same.
Any clues about what is wrong here? Thanks for any help!
Bill
5:50 a.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
Have you tried any of this?
https://www.tecmint.com/disable-suspend-and-hibernation-in-linux/
You may try:
systemctl --user mask sleep.target suspend.target
so that you do not disable it systemwide. It sounds like you only need to
do it for suspend/sleep, not necessarily for hibernate. Remember to
restart systemd. If that fails, try systemwide (without "--user"). If all
fails, your safe bet option is to switch to runlevel 3 and then start X
from the command line with `startx`. For the latter you will have to set
the SUID bit for /usr/bin/Xorg:
chmod u+s /usr/bin/Xorg
See: https://www.x.org/wiki/FAQMiscellaneous/
You will also need to set the WINDOWMANAGER environment variable to point
to TDE.
Let us know what works.
Gianluca
On Tue, 3 Aug 2021, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Okay, so riddle me this. I have totally disabled power management for my
system, created a user profile, made it the same as my default profile so
that it ought to be the only profile that loads. (I do this through the
Trinity Control Center / System Administration / Monitor & Display / Power
Managment.)
Yet my system still goes into hibernate mode (or so I believe) after it has
been left unattended (that is, no direct actions involving myself).
This is a desktop system, built by myself out of parts, but I am running
Devuan Beowulf and the most recent upgrade from the PTB repository. I don't
need to use power management, since there is no battery to worry about.
This annoys me on a daily basis, because I get up in the morning (about noon
or so), and find that it has gone into hibernate mode, despite the fact that
I have left some large downloads unattended, trusting that they could be left
to manage themselves. The power light blinks, the monitor has been shut off,
etc.; and when I press the power button, it springs back to life, except that
I have been disconnected and whatever I have left running has been
interrupted only partially finished.
It used to be I could create a profile, set it to run as the default, and
everything would be fine. But now it always goes into hibernate mode, no
matter what I do. I have also tried to create the profile in administrator
mode, but the result is always the same.
Any clues about what is wrong here? Thanks for any help!
Bill
____________________________________________________
tde-users mailing list -- users(a)trinitydesktop.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
Web mail archive available at
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
-----------------------------------------------------
Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca(a)u.washington.edu
+1 (206) 685 4435
http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering
University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A.
-----------------------------------------------------
6:23 a.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
On Tuesday 03 August 2021 22:50:59 Gianluca Interlandi wrote:
systemctl --user mask sleep.target suspend.target
I am running Devuan Beowulf: no systemd, only init on my system. As there is
no systemd, there also seems to be no systemctl. I searched apt for the
package, and it only brings up systemd, so it must depend on systemd or be
part of that package.
Incidentally, why not disable it system-wide? As I am the only user, and I
generally leave my desktop running for long-term tasks, it would seem
preferable to me that it is disabled system-wide.
What puzzles me most is the fact that I keep setting it to disable
hibernate/sleep/standby, etc., and it works for awhile, then gets reset; yet
I haven't changed anything in these settings, and never touch them -- except
of course that this problem keeps recurring.
Bill
4:37 p.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
On Tue, 3 Aug 2021, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 03 August 2021 22:50:59 Gianluca Interlandi wrote:
I would suggest switching to runlevel 3 as I mentioned in my first e-mail.
To do this, logout from your desktop, then either log in as root in a
konsole (Ctrl+Alt+F2) or remotely from another machine and enter:
telinit 3
You can set this permanently in /etc/inittab (this is in openSUSE, not
sure in your distribution).
Then, you can login as user from a konsole and enter
startx
You may first have to set the SUID bit for /usr/bin/Xorg (as root):
chmod u+s /usr/bin/Xorg
See: https://www.x.org/wiki/FAQMiscellaneous/
You will also need to set the WINDOWMANAGER environment variable to point
to TDE.
Gianluca
systemctl --user mask sleep.target suspend.target
I am running Devuan Beowulf: no systemd, only init on my system. As there is
no systemd, there also seems to be no systemctl. I searched apt for the
package, and it only brings up systemd, so it must depend on systemd or be
part of that package. Incidentally, why not disable it system-wide? As I am
the only user, and I
generally leave my desktop running for long-term tasks, it would seem
preferable to me that it is disabled system-wide.
What puzzles me most is the fact that I keep setting it to disable
hibernate/sleep/standby, etc., and it works for awhile, then gets reset; yet
I haven't changed anything in these settings, and never touch them -- except
of course that this problem keeps recurring.
Bill
____________________________________________________
tde-users mailing list -- users(a)trinitydesktop.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
Web mail archive available at
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
-----------------------------------------------------
Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca(a)u.washington.edu
+1 (206) 685 4435
http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering
University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A.
-----------------------------------------------------
7:35 a.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2021 Tue, 3 Aug 21:17:22 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
Okay, so riddle me this. I have totally disabled power management for my
system, created a user profile, made it the same as my default profile so
that it ought to be the only profile that loads. (I do this through the
Trinity Control Center / System Administration / Monitor & Display / Power
Managment.)
Yet my system still goes into hibernate mode (or so I believe) after it has
been left unattended (that is, no direct actions involving myself).
This is a desktop system, built by myself out of parts, but I am running
Devuan Beowulf and the most recent upgrade from the PTB repository. I don't
need to use power management, since there is no battery to worry about.
This annoys me on a daily basis, because I get up in the morning (about noon
or so), and find that it has gone into hibernate mode, despite the fact that
I have left some large downloads unattended, trusting that they could be left
to manage themselves. The power light blinks, the monitor has been shut off,
etc.; and when I press the power button, it springs back to life, except that
I have been disconnected and whatever I have left running has been
interrupted only partially finished.
It used to be I could create a profile, set it to run as the default, and
everything would be fine. But now it always goes into hibernate mode, no
matter what I do. I have also tried to create the profile in administrator
mode, but the result is always the same.
Any clues about what is wrong here? Thanks for any help!
Bill
right click on the TDEpowersave icon (the plug) --> Settings. For each scheme
you'll have to deselect "automatic suspend" (or whatever it's called in
englisch) - see screenshot.
Nik
____________________________________________________
tde-users mailing list -- users(a)trinitydesktop.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
Web mail archive available at
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
8:57 a.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 00:35:13 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
right click on the TDEpowersave icon (the plug) --> Settings. For each
scheme you'll have to deselect "automatic suspend" (or whatever it's
called
in englisch) - see screenshot.
Nik
Hi Nik!
From what I can tell -- and I checked every jot and tittle in the TDE
powersave window -- I have disabled powersave settings in all configurations.
I make *performance* the default setting, but all modes are set the same. Yet
my machine still presumes to do my thinking for me, and to save the
environment by ruining my downloads and other work.
See screenshot (attached). I have put yours side-by-side with my own, but
cannot find what is missing.
Bill
9 a.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 4 Aug 01:57:02 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 00:35:13 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
It's thwe 3rd tab "Autosuspend" on the right that you have to check.
Nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
right click on the TDEpowersave icon (the plug) --> Settings. For each
scheme you'll have to deselect "automatic suspend" (or whatever it's
called
in englisch) - see screenshot.
Nik
Hi Nik!
From what I can tell -- and I checked every jot and tittle in the TDE
powersave window -- I have disabled powersave settings in all configurations.
I make *performance* the default setting, but all modes are set the same. Yet
my machine still presumes to do my thinking for me, and to save the
environment by ruining my downloads and other work.
See screenshot (attached). I have put yours side-by-side with my own, but
cannot find what is missing.
Bill
9:18 a.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 02:00:05 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 4 Aug 01:57:02 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
By *check* I will assume that you mean I must inspect it (rather than
to "check" it in the sense of ticking or marking that box).
In any case, as you can see by the new screenshot (see attachment),
autosuspend is already disabled.
:-7
Bill
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 00:35:13 Dr. Nikolaus
Klepp wrote:
It's thwe 3rd tab "Autosuspend" on the right that you have to check.
Nik right click on the TDEpowersave icon (the plug)
--> Settings. For each
scheme you'll have to deselect "automatic suspend" (or whatever it's
called in englisch) - see screenshot.
Nik
Hi Nik!
From what I can tell -- and I checked every jot and tittle in the TDE
powersave window -- I have disabled powersave settings in all
configurations. I make *performance* the default setting, but all modes
are set the same. Yet my machine still presumes to do my thinking for me,
and to save the environment by ruining my downloads and other work.
See screenshot (attached). I have put yours side-by-side with my own, but
cannot find what is missing.
Bill 
10:26 a.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 4 Aug 02:18:59 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 02:00:05 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Ok. Did you disable it in all schemes?
Nik
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 4 Aug 01:57:02 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
By *check* I will assume that you mean I must inspect it (rather than
to "check" it in the sense of ticking or marking that box).
In any case, as you can see by the new screenshot (see attachment),
autosuspend is already disabled. On Wednesday 04 August 2021 00:35:13 Dr. Nikolaus
Klepp wrote:
It's thwe 3rd tab "Autosuspend" on the right that you have to check.
Nik right click on the TDEpowersave icon (the plug)
--> Settings. For each
scheme you'll have to deselect "automatic suspend" (or whatever it's
called in englisch) - see screenshot.
Nik
Hi Nik!
From what I can tell -- and I checked every jot and tittle in the TDE
powersave window -- I have disabled powersave settings in all
configurations. I make *performance* the default setting, but all modes
are set the same. Yet my machine still presumes to do my thinking for me,
and to save the environment by ruining my downloads and other work.
See screenshot (attached). I have put yours side-by-side with my own, but
cannot find what is missing.
Bill
:-7
Bill
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
10:33 a.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
I forgot:
~/.trinity/share/config/tdepowersaverc
~/.trinity/share/config/kpowersave.eventsrc
Theses are the suspects for unwanted suspend/hibernate. If there's no command
specified that could possibly send your machine to suspend/hibernate, then things get
interesting:
- Check BIOS settings
- Stop TDE and observe if suspend/hibernate occurs without X11
Nik
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 4 Aug 02:18:59 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 02:00:05 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 4 Aug 01:57:02 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
By *check* I will assume that you mean I must inspect it (rather than
to "check" it in the sense of ticking or marking that box).
In any case, as you can see by the new screenshot (see attachment),
autosuspend is already disabled.
:-7
Bill
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 00:35:13 Dr. Nikolaus
Klepp wrote:
It's thwe 3rd tab "Autosuspend" on the right that you have to check.
Nik right click on the TDEpowersave icon (the plug)
--> Settings. For each
scheme you'll have to deselect "automatic suspend" (or whatever it's
called in englisch) - see screenshot.
Nik
Hi Nik!
From what I can tell -- and I checked every jot and tittle in the TDE
powersave window -- I have disabled powersave settings in all
configurations. I make *performance* the default setting, but all modes
are set the same. Yet my machine still presumes to do my thinking for me,
and to save the environment by ruining my downloads and other work.
See screenshot (attached). I have put yours side-by-side with my own, but
cannot find what is missing.
Bill
10:51 a.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 03:33:54 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > It's thwe 3rd tab
"Autosuspend" on the right that you have to check.
> >
> > Nik
>
> By *check* I will assume that you mean I must inspect it (rather than
> to "check" it in the sense of ticking or marking that box).
>
> In any case, as you can see by the new screenshot (see attachment),
> autosuspend is already disabled.
>
> :-7
>
> Bill
I forgot:
~/.trinity/share/config/tdepowersaverc
~/.trinity/share/config/kpowersave.eventsrc
Theses are the suspects for unwanted suspend/hibernate. If there's no
command specified that could possibly send your machine to
suspend/hibernate, then things get interesting: - Check BIOS settings
- Stop TDE and observe if suspend/hibernate occurs without X11
Nik
In answer to your previous email:
Yes, I did disable it in all settings.
Thanks for pointing me to those -rc files. I used to look for them early on in
order to force other preferences or settings (changing permissions to
read-only on those files), but the same idea didn't occur to me here.
I think I got out of the habit when TDE started using a different kind of
configuration file (.kcfg, I think?) for some programs, and it's not so easy
to make those changes.
Let's see if I can get it that way.
Bill
1 p.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 21:17:22 -0700
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
Okay, so riddle me this. I have totally disabled power management for my
system, created a user profile, made it the same as my default profile so
that it ought to be the only profile that loads. (I do this through the
Trinity Control Center / System Administration / Monitor & Display / Power
Managment.)
Yet my system still goes into hibernate mode (or so I believe) after it has
been left unattended (that is, no direct actions involving myself).
This is a desktop system, built by myself out of parts, but I am running
Devuan Beowulf and the most recent upgrade from the PTB repository. I don't
need to use power management, since there is no battery to worry about.
The nuclear option would be to rebuild the kernel without support for suspend,
but that may be overkill. There *should* be a software "helper" at some
level (below TDE, but above the kernel) that you can kill instead. Possible
suspects include elogind, suspend (https://github.com/bircoph/suspend),
hibernate-script (https://gitlab.com/nigelcunningham/Hibernate-Script), and
the obsolete pm-utils. There may be other Devuan- or Debian-specific
options that I don't know about.
E. Liddell
5:55 p.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
E. Liddell wrote:
The nuclear option would be to rebuild the kernel
without support for
suspend, but that may be overkill. There *should* be a software "helper"
at some level (below TDE, but above the kernel) that you can kill instead.
Possible suspects include elogind, suspend
(https://github.com/bircoph/suspend), hibernate-script
(https://gitlab.com/nigelcunningham/Hibernate-Script), and the obsolete
pm-utils. There may be other Devuan- or Debian-specific options that I
don't know about.
if you use systemd
sudo systemctl mask sleep.target suspend.target hibernate.target
hybrid-sleep.target
I don't remember if you mentioned it is a laptop or a desktop.
If laptop could be lid close thing
7:16 p.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
On Wed, 04 Aug 2021 19:55:42 +0200
deloptes <emanoil.kotsev(a)deloptes.org> wrote:
E. Liddell wrote:
Original poster already stated it was a Devuan desktop, so no systemd
and no lid to close.
E. Liddell
The nuclear option would be to rebuild the kernel
without support for
suspend, but that may be overkill. There *should* be a software "helper"
at some level (below TDE, but above the kernel) that you can kill instead.
Possible suspects include elogind, suspend
(https://github.com/bircoph/suspend), hibernate-script
(https://gitlab.com/nigelcunningham/Hibernate-Script), and the obsolete
pm-utils. There may be other Devuan- or Debian-specific options that I
don't know about.
if you use systemd
sudo systemctl mask sleep.target suspend.target hibernate.target
hybrid-sleep.target
I don't remember if you mentioned it is a laptop or a desktop.
If laptop could be lid close thing
8 Aug
8 Aug
7:52 p.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ? - RESOLVED?
On Wednesday 04 August 2021 12:16:22 E. Liddell wrote:
On Wed, 04 Aug 2021 19:55:42 +0200
deloptes <emanoil.kotsev(a)deloptes.org> wrote:
Just thought I'd post a note that this issue seems to have been resolved, at
least for the time being, at least to my own satisfaction. I don't know that
the problem is actually *solved*, but for now I am able to get on with actual
life instead of futzing all night with my various settings.
Other methods that were suggested seemed rather too involved, though they
might also have got the job done. But really it is pretty simple.
I did have a few gnome and gnustep packages installed, due to my brief need
for unrar or unrar-free or whatever it was; however, these seem only maybe to
have indirectly affected my settings, which may ultimately have come down to
a permissions problem. To wit:
Following Nik's suggestion, I edited this file:
/home/>USER>/.trinity/share/config/tdepowersaverc
I set some of the time values ridiculously high (i.e., only autodimm after
about 150 years or so, in minutes), and changed some other settings in this
file. Others are probably better at this than I, but anyway, it did the
trick.
As I said earlier, I used to edit these -rc files all the time, in order to
get my machines to behave (when running KDE3/TDE), though I don't recall
using this simple method to control the ~powersave settings. I used it a lot
for the ~networkmanager, but somehow got out of the habit. (I think it's
because TDE has changed some of the config files to a different format, but I
haven't kept up.)
Before changing my settings in this file, I make a backup,
tdepowersaverc-orig, and after changing my settings, I save a copy of this
to a safe location, so that I can just use cp to overwrite this file whenever
it gets a mind of its own again.
Last step is to change permissions on this file to read-only, so that only I
as admin can alter the settings.
Since then I have let it run overnight for a few days, and it has gone through
one reboot during that period, yet my settings now remain constant
throughout, so it seems to be resolved. Whether the problem returns, I don't
know, but for now things are back to normal for me.
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions!
Bill
E. Liddell wrote:
Original poster already stated it was a Devuan desktop, so no systemd
and no lid to close.
E. Liddell The nuclear option would be to rebuild the kernel
without support for
suspend, but that may be overkill. There *should* be a software
"helper" at some level (below TDE, but above the kernel) that you can
kill instead. Possible suspects include elogind, suspend
(https://github.com/bircoph/suspend), hibernate-script
(https://gitlab.com/nigelcunningham/Hibernate-Script), and the obsolete
pm-utils. There may be other Devuan- or Debian-specific options that I
don't know about.
if you use systemd
sudo systemctl mask sleep.target suspend.target hibernate.target
hybrid-sleep.target
I don't remember if you mentioned it is a laptop or a desktop.
If laptop could be lid close thing
13 Aug
13 Aug
7:53 p.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ? - redux
if you use
systemd
Original poster already stated it was a Devuan desktop, so no systemd
and no lid to close.
E. Liddell
8:40 p.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ? - redux
On Friday 13 August 2021 02:53:55 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
However ... I have been having rather a lot of what seem to be intrusion
attempts.
Do you have a firewall installed? ufw is the usual Debian (&derivitives) one.
Gufw Firewall (gufw), http://gufw.org , is a GUI for it, which makes it
insanely simple to setup.
Note: If you are getting huge numbers of intrusion attempts, gufw's logs will
fill up rootfs fairly fast if rootfs is on it's own partition (default is
usually 50G when installed separately from /home)
I have been getting weird emails from people who have
exited the
scene five or six years ago; they are dated 31 December 1969 (which date I
get whenever, it seems, an email is corrupt).
Check your disk(s)?? Smart something or other. I can look it up if needed.
HTH,
Michael
9:02 p.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ? - redux
On Friday 13 August 2021 13:40:08 Michael wrote:
Smart card or something? Not sure to what you're referring.
On Friday 13 August 2021 02:53:55 pm William Morder
via tde-users wrote:
Yup, I have ufw and gufw installed. (I believe that was on your own advice, as
I used to rely on firestarter, which has been discontinued.
However ... I have been having rather a lot of
what seem to be intrusion
attempts.
Do you have a firewall installed? ufw is the usual Debian (&derivitives)
one. Gufw Firewall (gufw), http://gufw.org , is a GUI for it, which makes
it insanely simple to setup.
Note: If you are getting huge numbers of intrusion
attempts, gufw's logs
will fill up rootfs fairly fast if rootfs is on it's own partition (default
is usually 50G when installed separately from /home)
Yes, I need to check logs. I disabled logging due to this very problem: I
would run out of space on that partition every few days. However, logging
exists for good reasons, and this is probably one of them.
And here was I thinking that a root partition shouldn't need much more than 20
GB, so that my 30+ GB ought to be more than enough.
I have been
getting weird emails from people who have exited the
scene five or six years ago; they are dated 31 December 1969 (which date
I get whenever, it seems, an email is corrupt).
Check your disk(s)?? Smart something or other. I can look it up if
needed.
HTH,
Michael
9:43 p.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ? - redux
On Friday 13 August 2021 04:02:45 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
It’s ‘smartctl’
Do your internet research before you run these! It’s definitely possible to
fubar your system if you typo something.
I’m using /dev/sdb below, change as needed.
This will give you a status of a drive.
root@local [~]# smartctl --all /dev/sdb
blah, blah
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
blah, blah
Then badblocks to check the health of an unmounted partition.
root@local [~]# umount /dev/sdb
--or-- if encrypted (change to whatever you have)
root@local [~]# umount /dev/mapper/lesdb
root@local [~]# cryptsetup luksClose lesdb
Then find the block size
root@local [~]# blockdev --getbsz /dev/sdb
4096
Finally run badblocks.
This stops at the first error.
root@local [~]# badblocks -svn -b 4096 -e 1 /dev/sdb
(If you have no errors above, you don’t need to run this) This logs all errors
to a text file:
root@local [~]# badblocks -svn -b 4096 /dev/sdb > badblocks.sdb
Notes (on my system, ymmv):
badblocks takes approximately 40 hours on a 6TB disk.
badblocks takes approximately 45 hours on a 9TB disk.
HTH,
Michael
Check your disk(s)?? Smart something or other. I can look it up if
needed.
Smart card or something? Not sure to what you're referring. 
4 Aug
4 Aug
1:56 p.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
said William Morder via tde-users:
| Okay, so riddle me this. I have totally disabled power management for my
| system, created a user profile, made it the same as my default profile
| so that it ought to be the only profile that loads. (I do this through
| the Trinity Control Center / System Administration / Monitor & Display /
| Power Managment.)
|
| Yet my system still goes into hibernate mode (or so I believe) after it
| has been left unattended (that is, no direct actions involving myself).
Might you have some Gnome thing running or at least set? I've occasionally
found unwanted behavior attributable to some Gnome default (that I can't
get to -- is there a Gnome equivalent to KControl?), and it could be that
you have some Gnome package that forces this behavior, as if it were the
government of California.
--
dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album
Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
2 p.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
said dep:
| Might you have some Gnome thing running or at least set? I've
| occasionally found unwanted behavior attributable to some Gnome default
| (that I can't get to -- is there a Gnome equivalent to KControl?), and
| it could be that you have some Gnome package that forces this behavior,
| as if it were the government of California.
Okay, just found gnome-control-center -- now to make some changes!
--
dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album
Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
3:05 p.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 04 Aug 14:00:16 +0000
dep scripsit:
said dep:
| Might you have some Gnome thing running or at least set? I've
| occasionally found unwanted behavior attributable to some Gnome default
| (that I can't get to -- is there a Gnome equivalent to KControl?), and
| it could be that you have some Gnome package that forces this behavior,
| as if it were the government of California.
Okay, just found gnome-control-center -- now to make some changes!
LOL ... I'd first look if anything GNOMEish is running or installed, e.g.
$ dpkg -l|grep -i gnome
$ ps ax|grep gnome
... which just happend to show me
/usr/libexec/at-spi2-registryd --use-gnome-session
which was draged in by some other GNOMEish package (hate that!) ... well, it is no more
:)
Nik
--
dep
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Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
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Web mail archive available at
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--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
2:53 p.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
Anno domini 2021 Wed, 04 Aug 13:56:12 +0000
dep scripsit:
said William Morder via tde-users:
| Okay, so riddle me this. I have totally disabled power management for my
| system, created a user profile, made it the same as my default profile
| so that it ought to be the only profile that loads. (I do this through
| the Trinity Control Center / System Administration / Monitor & Display /
| Power Managment.)
|
| Yet my system still goes into hibernate mode (or so I believe) after it
| has been left unattended (that is, no direct actions involving myself).
Might you have some Gnome thing running or at least set? I've occasionally
found unwanted behavior attributable to some Gnome default (that I can't
get to -- is there a Gnome equivalent to KControl?), and it could be that
you have some Gnome package that forces this behavior, as if it were the
government of California.
Oh my, just look at the gnomes in EU ... disgusting. But GNOMEs is a good hint.
--
dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album
Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
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Web mail archive available at
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
3:16 p.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
said Dr. Nikolaus Klepp:
| > Might you have some Gnome thing running or at least set? I've
| > occasionally found unwanted behavior attributable to some Gnome
| > default (that I can't get to -- is there a Gnome equivalent to
| > KControl?), and it could be that you have some Gnome package that
| > forces this behavior, as if it were the government of California.
|
| Oh my, just look at the gnomes in EU ... disgusting. But GNOMEs is a
| good hint.
You might not have heard -- and it's vaguely on topic -- that a law in
California recently went into affect that prohibits shipment to the state
of computers that a.) won't suspend/hibernate and b.) use too much power
when suspended or hibernating. There are exceptions, but they require you
to hire a lawyer for your tech support. Dell isn't shipping certain
Alienware machines (who would want one?) to California as a result.
https://hothardware.com/news/californias-confusing-energy-law-may-have-just…
--
dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album
Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
5:56 p.m.
New subject: how to stop power management - hibernate/standby, etc. ?
dep wrote:
You might not have heard -- and it's vaguely on
topic -- that a law in
California recently went into affect that prohibits shipment to the state
of computers that a.) won't suspend/hibernate and b.) use too much power
when suspended or hibernating. There are exceptions, but they require you
to hire a lawyer for your tech support. Dell isn't shipping certain
Alienware machines (who would want one?) to California as a result.
shame on you ... consuming too much power. You must save on it, so that Mr.
Tesla makes more money
9 Oct
9 Oct
6:21 p.m.
New subject: Trinity IRC
So ... starting a new thread, cleaning out all that bad karma.
quoting Nik:
There is a IRC group, Slavek posted it som months ago:
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
Host: irc.libera.chat:6697 (ssl)
Channel: #trinity-desktop
You can use "ksirc-trinity" as IRC client - in fact, I just instsalled it to
give it a try :)
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer correctly). After setting up
everything else I could find, I seem to be missing something, namely the
server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I looked up the web page from
the link given above, but I see nothing to help.
Not saying that anybody will actually use it, but maybe this is a good place
to start. We can at least test it.
Bill
7:26 p.m.
New subject: Trinity IRC
William Morder via tde-users composed on 2021-10-09 11:21 (UTC-0700):
quoting Nik:
There is a IRC group, Slavek posted it som months ago:
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
Host: irc.libera.chat:6697 (ssl)
Channel: #trinity-desktop
You can use "ksirc-trinity" as IRC client -
in fact, I just instsalled it to
give it a try :)
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer
correctly). After setting up
everything else I could find, I seem to be missing something, namely the
server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I looked up the web page from
the link given above, but I see nothing to help.
Not saying that anybody will actually use it, but
maybe this is a good place
to start. We can at least test it.
21 nicks there ATM. I've been using #trinity-desktop for years, & Slavek longer.
;P Turnaround is generally faster, and people don't fullquote fullquotes of
fullquotes of fullquotes.... ;P
--
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata
7:32 p.m.
New subject: Trinity IRC
On 10/9/21 11:21 AM, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer
correctly). After setting up
everything else I could find, I seem to be missing something, namely the
server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I looked up the web page from
the link given above, but I see nothing to help.
It's probably easiest to just use a browser on their website.
https://libera.chat/
top left, Navigation / Connect / Webchat
Enter whatever nick you want, and the channel name #trinity-desktop
...and you're in.
--
PGP key: http://homestead-products.com/pubkey.htm
7:41 p.m.
New subject: Trinity IRC
On Saturday 09 October 2021 19:21:46 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
So ... starting a new thread, cleaning out all that
bad karma.
quoting Nik:
There is a IRC group, Slavek posted it som months ago:
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinit
ydesktop.org/message/AYVTPKNNL7CHQBXZK64EMPULQ2ISAJEX/
Host: irc.libera.chat:6697 (ssl)
Channel: #trinity-desktop
You can use "ksirc-trinity" as IRC client - in fact, I just
instsalled it to give it a try :)
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer correctly). After
setting up everything else I could find, I seem to be missing
something, namely the server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I
looked up the web page from the link given above, but I see nothing
to help.
Not saying that anybody will actually use it, but maybe this is a
good place to start. We can at least test it.
Bill
____________________________________________________
tde-users mailing list -- users(a)trinitydesktop.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
Web mail archive available at
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinit
ydesktop.org
Remember you can join Libera.Chat channels from Matrix just trying to
join to #channelnamehere:libera.chat where #channelnamehere is the name
of the channel.
--
Regards,
Echedey, Lopez Romero
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
8:05 p.m.
New subject: Trinity IRC
On Saturday 09 October 2021 12:41:07 Echedey Lopez Romero via tde-users wrote:
On Saturday 09 October 2021 19:21:46 William Morder
via tde-users wrote:
> So ... starting a new thread, cleaning out all that bad karma.
>
> quoting Nik:
> There is a IRC group, Slavek posted it som months ago:
> https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinit
>ydesktop.org/message/AYVTPKNNL7CHQBXZK64EMPULQ2ISAJEX/
>
> Host: irc.libera.chat:6697 (ssl)
> Channel: #trinity-desktop
>
> You can use "ksirc-trinity" as IRC client - in fact, I just
> instsalled it to give it a try :)
>
>
> Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer correctly). After
> setting up everything else I could find, I seem to be missing
> something, namely the server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I
> looked up the web page from the link given above, but I see nothing
> to help.
>
> Not saying that anybody will actually use it, but maybe this is a
> good place to start. We can at least test it.
>
> Bill
>
I tried with ksirc, but so far no luck. I also poked around in psi-plus, since
I have like using that and it's supposed to have IRC capabilities, but again
it's without success.
Right now I have to run to the post office before they close, and do a couple
other things. If I survive my adventures out there in physical space (which
some call the "real world"), then I will try again later in a few hours.
If anybody out there uses IRC, and has luck with this client or that, or knows
what I am missing in my setup, I will be watching for any help or clues.
Bill
10 Oct
10 Oct
4:46 p.m.
New subject: Trinity IRC
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2021 Sat, 9 Oct 11:21:46 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
So ... starting a new thread, cleaning out all that bad karma.
quoting Nik:
There is a IRC group, Slavek posted it som months ago:
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
Host: irc.libera.chat:6697 (ssl)
Channel: #trinity-desktop
You can use "ksirc-trinity" as IRC client - in fact, I just instsalled it to
give it a try :)
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer correctly). After setting up
everything else I could find, I seem to be missing something, namely the
server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I looked up the web page from
the link given above, but I see nothing to help.
In ksirc you should not set the checkmark on "SSL", otherwise it will not
connect. I guess the server does not use encryption for the IRC protocol, just the
webclient uses https.
Nik
Not saying that anybody will actually use it, but
maybe this is a good place
to start. We can at least test it.
Bill
____________________________________________________
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Web mail archive available at
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--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
5:15 p.m.
New subject: Trinity IRC
On Sunday 10 October 2021 09:46:26 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2021 Sat, 9 Oct 11:21:46 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
A ha!
Thanks, Nik!
I see from the other post this morning that dep also is getting the same error
in Konversation.
One thing that rather annoyed me is that after I had disconnected ksirc, I
kept seeing attempts at connection when watching my network traffic. The only
way that I could kill them was to reboot.
There's something I don't like, and I hope that I can change it.
Bill
So ... starting a new thread, cleaning out all
that bad karma.
quoting Nik:
There is a IRC group, Slavek posted it som months ago:
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydes
ktop.org/message/AYVTPKNNL7CHQBXZK64EMPULQ2ISAJEX/
Host: irc.libera.chat:6697 (ssl)
Channel: #trinity-desktop
You can use "ksirc-trinity" as IRC client - in fact, I just instsalled it
to give it a try :)
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer correctly). After
setting up everything else I could find, I seem to be missing something,
namely the server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I looked up the
web page from the link given above, but I see nothing to help.
In ksirc you should not set the checkmark on "SSL", otherwise it will not
connect. I guess the server does not use encryption for the IRC protocol,
just the webclient uses https.
Nik
> Not saying that anybody will actually use it, but maybe this is a good
> place to start. We can at least test it.
>
> Bill
>
>
5:26 p.m.
New subject: Trinity IRC
Dne ne 10. října 2021 19:15:37 William Morder via tde-users napsal(a):
On Sunday 10 October 2021 09:46:26 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp
wrote:
Hi all,
I don't know what is the status of SSL support in ksirc, but in kopete I
use connection to irc.libera.chat with port 6697 and with SSL support. The
only inconvenience in functionality is that every time I join I must
confirm the SSL certificate.
Cheers
--
Slávek
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2021 Sat, 9 Oct 11:21:46 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
A ha!
Thanks, Nik!
I see from the other post this morning that dep also is getting the same
error in Konversation.
One thing that rather annoyed me is that after I had disconnected ksirc,
I kept seeing attempts at connection when watching my network traffic.
The only way that I could kill them was to reboot.
There's something I don't like, and I hope that I can change it.
Bill
____________________________________________________ So ... starting a new thread, cleaning out all
that bad karma.
quoting Nik:
There is a IRC group, Slavek posted it som months ago:
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trini
tydes ktop.org/message/AYVTPKNNL7CHQBXZK64EMPULQ2ISAJEX/
Host: irc.libera.chat:6697 (ssl)
Channel: #trinity-desktop
You can use "ksirc-trinity" as IRC client - in fact, I just
instsalled it to give it a try :)
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer correctly). After
setting up everything else I could find, I seem to be missing
something, namely the server password and the #trinity-desktop key.
I looked up the web page from the link given above, but I see
nothing to help.
In ksirc you should not set the checkmark on "SSL", otherwise it will
not connect. I guess the server does not use encryption for the IRC
protocol, just the webclient uses https.
Nik
> Not saying that anybody will actually use it, but maybe this is a
> good place to start. We can at least test it.
>
> Bill
5:26 p.m.
New subject: Trinity IRC
Sorry for top posting: To kill those attempts to connect, right click on the tiny icon in
Kicker and choose "quit" or from the main Konversation window File > Quit.
("killall konversation" at a prompt ought to do it, too.) No need to reboot.
dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album
Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 1:15 PM, William Morder via tde-users
<users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
On Sunday 10 October 2021 09:46:26 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp
wrote:
Hi Bill!
Anno domini 2021 Sat, 9 Oct 11:21:46 -0700
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
A ha!
Thanks, Nik!
I see from the other post this morning that dep also is getting the same error
in Konversation.
One thing that rather annoyed me is that after I had disconnected ksirc, I
kept seeing attempts at connection when watching my network traffic. The only
way that I could kill them was to reboot.
There's something I don't like, and I hope that I can change it.
Bill
____________________________________________________
tde-users mailing list -- users(a)trinitydesktop.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
Web mail archive available at
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt… So ... starting a new thread, cleaning out all
that bad karma.
quoting Nik:
There is a IRC group, Slavek posted it som months ago:
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydes
ktop.org/message/AYVTPKNNL7CHQBXZK64EMPULQ2ISAJEX/
Host: irc.libera.chat:6697 (ssl)
Channel: #trinity-desktop
You can use "ksirc-trinity" as IRC client - in fact, I just instsalled it
to give it a try :)
Question for Nik (or anybody else who can answer correctly). After
setting up everything else I could find, I seem to be missing something,
namely the server password and the #trinity-desktop key. I looked up the
web page from the link given above, but I see nothing to help.
In ksirc you should not set the checkmark on "SSL", otherwise it will not
connect. I guess the server does not use encryption for the IRC protocol,
just the webclient uses https.
Nik
> Not saying that anybody will actually use it, but maybe this is a good
> place to start. We can at least test it.
>
> Bill
>
>
9 Oct
9 Oct
6:44 p.m.
New subject: Trinity IRC - P.S.
I tried connecting over Tor, then tried a direct connection, but I keep
getting these messages:
Connecting to irc.libera.chat, port 6667...
Doing SSL server connect...
I encountered a problem: () SSL connect attempt failed error:1408F10B:SSL
routines:ssl3_get_record:wrong version number at /opt/trinity/bin/dsirc line
274.
Invalid hostname or port?
Bill
20 Oct
20 Oct
1:41 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
There is a recurring glitch in my emails, which involves another person
(person A) here on the mailing list. (I don't name him here, but I have
already contacted him to ask about it.) It involves the mailing list, maybe,
because I only know him from the list, and we have only exchanged a couple of
personal emails outside the list.
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B) who is not
a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from her phone, the
private email address of this first person (person A, a member of the list)
showed up in her (person B's) email headers. There is absolutely no other
connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
I went through other email correspondents, to see if something similar was
happening, but it only seems to be with these two people. I created an
entirely new email (no metadata from replies, etc.) to send her (person B)
something, and again I found person A's headers in this email that I sent.
So it doesn't seem to matter if person B or myself initiate the email; the
headers from person A (who is a member of this list) always show up in the
headers.
Sorry for the vague description, but I am taking pains to avoid mentioning
names. If person A (member of the list) chooses to join the conversation,
then I can speak a little more freely. And let me make it clear that I do not
suspect either of these people of anything at all, as they both seem as
clueless as myself about these matters.
Can anybody offer an explanation for this email quirk? I bring my question
here, because it involves somebody else who is a member of the list, so that
it might be a concern for other members of the list, and of course for the
moderators, Slavek, et al.
I would be glad to offer a sample of the headers, but I also need to consider
the other persons involved.
Bill
1:45 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
Are you using KMail?
dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album
Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 9:41 PM, William Morder via tde-users
<users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
There is a recurring glitch in my emails, which
involves another person
(person A) here on the mailing list. (I don't name him here, but I have
already contacted him to ask about it.) It involves the mailing list, maybe,
because I only know him from the list, and we have only exchanged a couple of
personal emails outside the list.
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B) who is not
a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from her phone, the
private email address of this first person (person A, a member of the list)
showed up in her (person B's) email headers. There is absolutely no other
connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
I went through other email correspondents, to see if something similar was
happening, but it only seems to be with these two people. I created an
entirely new email (no metadata from replies, etc.) to send her (person B)
something, and again I found person A's headers in this email that I sent.
So it doesn't seem to matter if person B or myself initiate the email; the
headers from person A (who is a member of this list) always show up in the
headers.
Sorry for the vague description, but I am taking pains to avoid mentioning
names. If person A (member of the list) chooses to join the conversation,
then I can speak a little more freely. And let me make it clear that I do not
suspect either of these people of anything at all, as they both seem as
clueless as myself about these matters.
Can anybody offer an explanation for this email quirk? I bring my question
here, because it involves somebody else who is a member of the list, so that
it might be a concern for other members of the list, and of course for the
moderators, Slavek, et al.
I would be glad to offer a sample of the headers, but I also need to consider
the other persons involved.
Bill
____________________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org
Web mail archive available at
https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskt…
1:56 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Tuesday 19 October 2021 18:45:20 dep wrote:
[Editing to change from top posting, because I know that you can't bottom post
from somewhere or other. See below.]
Also, apologies for accidentally sending to your private email! I just hit
reply without looking.
Yes. Person A (member of list), also, I believe, uses Kmail.
The other person, B, does not use it, as she is unclear about anything that
does not include the rotten Apple or Windoze. She knows almost nothing about
security, privacy, etc., and I have had to urge her to take even the smallest
reasonable precautions.
Bill
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 9:41 PM, William Morder via tde-users
<users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
There is a
recurring glitch in my emails, which involves another person
(person A) here on the mailing list. (I don't name him here, but I have
already contacted him to ask about it.) It involves the mailing list,
maybe, because I only know him from the list, and we have only exchanged
a couple of personal emails outside the list.
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B) who is
not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from her
phone, the private email address of this first person (person A, a member
of the list) showed up in her (person B's) email headers. There is
absolutely no other connection between these two persons, except of
course for myself.
I went through other email correspondents, to see if something similar
was happening, but it only seems to be with these two people. I created
an entirely new email (no metadata from replies, etc.) to send her
(person B) something, and again I found person A's headers in this email
that I sent.
So it doesn't seem to matter if person B or myself initiate the email;
the headers from person A (who is a member of this list) always show up
in the headers.
Sorry for the vague description, but I am taking pains to avoid
mentioning names. If person A (member of the list) chooses to join the
conversation, then I can speak a little more freely. And let me make it
clear that I do not suspect either of these people of anything at all, as
they both seem as clueless as myself about these matters.
Can anybody offer an explanation for this email quirk? I bring my
question here, because it involves somebody else who is a member of the
list, so that it might be a concern for other members of the list, and of
course for the moderators, Slavek, et al.
I would be glad to offer a sample of the headers, but I also need to
consider the other persons involved.
Bill
Are you using KMail?
dep
6:15 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 06:56:15PM -0700, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Thanks for bottom posting, but please trim the unnecessary quoting.
--
Steve
On Tuesday 19 October 2021 18:45:20 dep wrote:
[snip a page or so of quotes]
Are you using
KMail?
dep
Yes. Person A (member of list), also, I believe, uses Kmail.
5:25 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Tuesday 19 October 2021 21:41:17 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
There is a recurring glitch in my emails, which
involves another
person (person A) here on the mailing list. (I don't name him here,
but I have already contacted him to ask about it.) It involves the
mailing list, maybe, because I only know him from the list, and we
have only exchanged a couple of personal emails outside the list.
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B) who
is not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from
her phone, the private email address of this first person (person A, a
member of the list) showed up in her (person B's) email headers. There
is absolutely no other connection between these two persons, except of
course for myself.
I went through other email correspondents, to see if something similar
was happening, but it only seems to be with these two people. I
created an entirely new email (no metadata from replies, etc.) to send
her (person B) something, and again I found person A's headers in this
email that I sent.
So it doesn't seem to matter if person B or myself initiate the email;
the headers from person A (who is a member of this list) always show
up in the headers.
Sorry for the vague description, but I am taking pains to avoid
mentioning names. If person A (member of the list) chooses to join the
conversation, then I can speak a little more freely. And let me make
it clear that I do not suspect either of these people of anything at
all, as they both seem as clueless as myself about these matters.
Can anybody offer an explanation for this email quirk? I bring my
question here, because it involves somebody else who is a member of
the list, so that it might be a concern for other members of the list,
and of course for the moderators, Slavek, et al.
I would be glad to offer a sample of the headers, but I also need to
consider the other persons involved.
Bill
I am person A. And I'm as puzzled as Bill. Person B, whom I've never
heard of, is halfway around this ball of rock and water. Yet my email
addy is in the References: header line coming from Persn B's phone. An
Android phone I believe.
A new method of broadcasting spam recipient addy's? My incoming spam
level has increased, but not enough to point fingers. Spamassassin nails
95% of its anyway.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
6:02 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Tue October 19 2021 18:41:17 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
There is a recurring glitch in my emails, which
involves another person
(person A) here on the mailing list. (I don't name him here, but I have
already contacted him to ask about it.) It involves the mailing list,
maybe, because I only know him from the list, and we have only exchanged a
couple of personal emails outside the list.
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B) who is
not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from her
phone, the private email address of this first person (person A, a member
of the list) showed up in her (person B's) email headers. There is
absolutely no other connection between these two persons, except of course
for myself.
Hi William,
Your email quoted in part above contains the following headers:
References: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
In-Reply-To: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
Either your KMail is really messed up or you sometimes start an
email and then repurpose it. For example it looks like that email
started as a reply to Gene and then you changed it to go to the
list but it already had the references to Gene in it.
This could explain how references to person A got into your
correspondence with person B.
--Mike
6:29 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 02:02:34 Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue October 19 2021 18:41:17 William Morder via
tde-users wrote:
I do that too. Adding and occasionally deleting target adresses after the
composer is opened.
And I'd call that a bug, those headers should be composed when its sent,
not when the composer is opened. They s/b done dynamically after its
determined where the message is going.
My $0,02.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
There is a recurring glitch in my emails, which
involves another
person (person A) here on the mailing list. (I don't name him here,
but I have already contacted him to ask about it.) It involves the
mailing list, maybe, because I only know him from the list, and we
have only exchanged a couple of personal emails outside the list.
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B)
who is not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email
from her phone, the private email address of this first person
(person A, a member of the list) showed up in her (person B's) email
headers. There is absolutely no other connection between these two
persons, except of course for myself.
Hi William,
Your email quoted in part above contains the following headers:
References: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
In-Reply-To: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
Either your KMail is really messed up or you sometimes start an
email and then repurpose it. For example it looks like that email
started as a reply to Gene and then you changed it to go to the
list but it already had the references to Gene in it.
This could explain how references to person A got into your
correspondence with person B.
--Mike
9:12 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
Hi Bill,
Am Mittwoch, 20. Oktober 2021 schrieb Mike Bird:
Hi William,
Your email quoted in part above contains the following headers:
References: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
In-Reply-To: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
Either your KMail is really messed up or you sometimes start an
email and then repurpose it. For example it looks like that email
started as a reply to Gene and then you changed it to go to the
list but it already had the references to Gene in it.
This could explain how references to person A got into your
correspondence with person B.
There is an option in the configuration dialog for Reply Address
(translated, first item). Maybe you've set that… Just a guess.
HTH, Stefan
11:27 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
Am Mittwoch, 20. Oktober 2021 schrieb Stefan Krusche:
Hi Bill,
Am Mittwoch, 20. Oktober 2021 schrieb Mike Bird:
Under Settings -> Identities and in the properties dialog of a identity,
that is.
Cheers
Hi William,
Your email quoted in part above contains the following headers:
References: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
In-Reply-To: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
Either your KMail is really messed up or you sometimes start an
email and then repurpose it. For example it looks like that email
started as a reply to Gene and then you changed it to go to the
list but it already had the references to Gene in it.
This could explain how references to person A got into your
correspondence with person B.
There is an option in the configuration dialog for Reply Address
(translated, first item). Maybe you've set that… Just a guess.
6:33 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 06:41:17PM -0700, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Now here is the actual "problem": I have
another friend (person B) who is not
a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from her phone, the
private email address of this first person (person A, a member of the list)
showed up in her (person B's) email headers.
Which headers? Are you talking about person A's address showing up as
the From address of person B's emails? Or some other header?
There is absolutely no other
connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
There definitely seems to be something odd with your email headers. I've
had a *very* brief look at a few, and:
1. Fresh emails from you starting a new thread often contain an
In-Reply-To and Reference header. For instance, in one fresh email from
you back in 2020, it included an In-Reply-To pointing to
201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net
which seems to be an email from 2018.
2. When you reply to an existing email, the Reference header refers to
somebody *other* than the person whose email you replied to.
3. And your emails have what look to me like corrupt header lines, such
as this one:
+h=from:reply-to:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:message-id;
which nobody else seems to have (at least not in my brief
investigation). The leading + sign is actually a space or newline.
So something is not happy in your emails.
--
Steve
6:50 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 02:33:01 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Where would I check that?, I'll see if I can fix it.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 06:41:17PM -0700, William
Morder via tde-users
wrote:
Now here is
the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B)
who is not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email
from her phone, the private email address of this first person
(person A, a member of the list) showed up in her (person B's) email
headers.
Which headers? Are you talking about person A's address showing up as
the From address of person B's emails? Or some other header?
There is absolutely no other
connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
There definitely seems to be something odd with your email headers.
I've had a *very* brief look at a few, and:
1. Fresh emails from you starting a new thread often contain an
In-Reply-To and Reference header. For instance, in one fresh email
from you back in 2020, it included an In-Reply-To pointing to
201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net
which seems to be an email from 2018.
2. When you reply to an existing email, the Reference header refers to
somebody *other* than the person whose email you replied to.
3. And your emails have what look to me like corrupt header lines,
such as this one:
+h=from:reply-to:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mim
e-version:content-type:message-id;
which nobody else seems to have (at least not in my brief
investigation). The leading + sign is actually a space or newline.
So something is not happy in your emails.
7:41 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 02:50:13AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 02:33:01 Steven
D'Aprano wrote:
[snip me describing problems with William's email]
Where would I check that?, I'll see if I can fix
it.
I don't think you can fix William Morder's email woes at your end :-)
--
Steve
7:48 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 02:50:13 Gene Heskett wrote:
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 02:33:01 Steven
D'Aprano wrote:
Where would I check that?, I'll see if I can fix it.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
A copy/paste of the whole header as it leaves here for that last message:
wordwrap off.
From: Gene Heskett <gheskett(a)shentel.net>
Organization: none,nada,zip
To: users(a)trinitydesktop.org
Subject: Re: [tde-users] Re: email mess - maybe OT or not
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 02:50:13 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10
edited here
References: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net> < whats this do
<202110191841.19683.doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> <ditto
<20211020063300.GA7456(a)ando.pearwood.info> <ditto
to here as there are no newlines in the above.
In-Reply-To: <20211020063300.GA7456(a)ando.pearwood.info>
X-KMail-QuotePrefix: >
X-KMail-Link-Message: 9934882
X-KMail-Link-Type: reply
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <202110200250.13755.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
Status: RO
X-Status: RSC
X-KMail-EncryptionState:
X-KMail-SignatureState:
X-KMail-MDN-Sent:
I have no clue where that References: line is coming from.
It does not exist in any menu I can find.
Here is a puzzle though:
gene@coyote:~$ locate kmailrc
/home/gene/.trinity/share/config/kmailrc
looking thru it with geany, I see two potentiial buffer overflows, the
last, 5088th line is 2415 chars long. in the title [test-index],removed=
long list of comma seperated 7 digit numbers.
backing up, to line 4542. under [general], "recent addresses" is 1428
chars long.
Everything else looks legit to these eyes.
Anyplace else that bears looking into?
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 06:41:17PM -0700, William
Morder via
tde-users
wrote:
Now here
is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B)
who is not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an
email from her phone, the private email address of this first
person (person A, a member of the list) showed up in her (person
B's) email headers.
Which headers? Are you talking about person A's address showing up
as the From address of person B's emails? Or some other header?
There is absolutely no other
connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
There definitely seems to be something odd with your email headers.
I've had a *very* brief look at a few, and:
1. Fresh emails from you starting a new thread often contain an
In-Reply-To and Reference header. For instance, in one fresh email
from you back in 2020, it included an In-Reply-To pointing to
201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net
which seems to be an email from 2018.
2. When you reply to an existing email, the Reference header refers
to somebody *other* than the person whose email you replied to.
3. And your emails have what look to me like corrupt header lines,
such as this one:
+h=from:reply-to:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:m
im e-version:content-type:message-id;
which nobody else seems to have (at least not in my brief
investigation). The leading + sign is actually a space or newline.
So something is not happy in your emails.
9:09 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 03:48:15AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
edited here
References: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net> < whats this do
<202110191841.19683.doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com> <ditto
<20211020063300.GA7456(a)ando.pearwood.info> <ditto
to here as there are no newlines in the above.
The References header shows a full list of the IDs of each email in the
thread. So if there is a thread:
Alice emails message id 123
Bob replies to Alice's email, with his message id 456.
Charlie replies to Bob's email, and his message id is 789.
And Alice replies to Charlie, with her message id 987.
Then the References header will say:
References: <123> <456> <789> <987>
Except of course the IDs are not three digit numbers, they look more
like 20211020051234.ABCDEF(a)domain.com. Here is your message id from the
email I am replying to:
Message-Id: <202110200250.13755.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
The message id is generated (I think) when you send the email.
The References header is used to help mail clients find the right place
to display an email in threaded view, even if you change the subject
line.
The In-Reply-To header shows the id of the email you actually hit "Reply
To" (or "Reply All"). That's why if you hit Reply to an email, then
change the subject line, your email client can usually still work out
where to display it.
Going back to the original References list, we have three in the chain
to that point:
<201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
That is the mystery reference ID that appeared in William's first post.
It shouldn't appear there, because he wasn't replying to anyone, he was
starting a new email from scratch.
<202110191841.19683.doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com>
That is the message id of William's first post.
<20211020063300.GA7456(a)ando.pearwood.info>
And that is the message id of my reply to William's post.
Going back to the mystery ID 2018... there is no good reason why it
should be there, or why it refers to your email address. It should not
be there! That is one of the reasons why I think William's mail is
broken.
One possibility is that William clicked on a message from you,
dated all the way back to 2018, hit "Reply All", changed the subject
line, adjusted the To address to go to the list, and then wrote a
fresh email and sent it.
Another possibility is that William has some sort of filter or automated
system to configure his email. I see he has an Xface header set, I
believe he also configured his email to use a different email address
depending on the recipients. (I think.)
So it is possible that something has gone wrong with his filter or
email script. William, can you check that?
Otherwise, I've run out of ideas.
Here is a puzzle though:
gene@coyote:~$ locate kmailrc
/home/gene/.trinity/share/config/kmailrc
looking thru it with geany, I see two potentiial buffer overflows, the
last, 5088th line is 2415 chars long. in the title [test-index],removed=
long list of comma seperated 7 digit numbers.
There is nothing in your kmailrc that could be affecting William's
posts.
I would be horrified to learn that a mere 2415 characters could cause a
buffer overflow in kmail. I really hope that is not true. Normally,
buffer overflows occur around the boundary of 2^15, 2^16, 2^31 or 2^32.
2^15 is 32768, so a mere 2415 isn't even close. If it was thirty
thousand or more, I might start to get concerned. But hopefully Kmail
has no buffer overflows.
(Buffer overflows are not a law of physics, they are a consequence of
how the code is programmed.)
--
Steve
6:58 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
Which headers? Are you talking about person A's
address showing up as
the From address of person B's emails? Or some other header?
Yes, person A's (that is, Gene's) address shows up in the headers of somebody
else altogether. When person B sends me an email (not a reply), I also get
Gene's address in the headers.
Person B doesn't know Gene at all, doesn't know about TDE or the list, and
knows hardly anything about computers, hence uses the rotten Apple and
sometimes Windoze.
There is absolutely no other
connection between these two persons, except of course for myself.
There definitely seems to be something odd with your email headers. I've
had a *very* brief look at a few, and:
1. Fresh emails from you starting a new thread often contain an
In-Reply-To and Reference header. For instance, in one fresh email from
you back in 2020, it included an In-Reply-To pointing to
201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net
which seems to be an email from 2018.
2. When you reply to an existing email, the Reference header refers to
somebody *other* than the person whose email you replied to.
So far as I can tell, this happens only with emails to person B, who doesn't
know Gene at all, nor is a common member of any list or group; and now, it
seems to happen in these emails to the TDE list.
I did some looking through other emails to the list, though, and it seems to
be recent.
3. And your emails have what look to me like corrupt
header lines, such
as this one:
+h=from:reply-to:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-ver
sion:content-type:message-id;
which nobody else seems to have (at least not in my brief
investigation). The leading + sign is actually a space or newline.
I would like to buy a clue here, as I would like to believe that I send and
receive emails the same as everybody else.
If there is anything amiss, then I would imagine that maybe it's because I've
moved from KDE3 Kmail to TDE Kmail, and copied everything from one machine to
another over about 15 years or so.
So something is not happy in your emails.
Unhappy emails, frustrated email user.
Bill
7:49 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 11:58:40PM -0700, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Yes, but *which* header?
There is a huge difference between:
"Person B sends me a fresh email, but the From address says Gene"
and
"Person B replies to my email, and when I use Show Headers, I see that
one of the In-Reply-To or Reference headers says Gene."
These are very different symptoms with probably very different causes
and fixes.
I don't know enough about how Kmail generates the In-Reply-To and
Reference headers to comment.
--
Steve
Which headers? Are you talking about person
A's address showing up as
the From address of person B's emails? Or some other header?
Yes, person A's (that is, Gene's) address shows up in the headers of somebody
else altogether. When person B sends me an email (not a reply), I also get
Gene's address in the headers. Person B doesn't know Gene at all, doesn't
know about TDE or the list, and
knows hardly anything about computers, hence uses the rotten Apple and
sometimes Windoze.
So you've said :-) but it's not really relevant unless it is a problem
with their mail client. It probably isn't.
201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net
which seems to be an email from 2018.
I did search for this email, and it seems not to exist at all; indeed, never
existed, I believe, because I save *almost* everything, except spam and other
crap like that.
8:11 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 03:49:47 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Yes, but *which* header?
There is a huge difference between:
"Person B sends me a fresh email, but the From address says Gene"
and
"Person B replies to my email, and when I use Show Headers, I see that
one of the In-Reply-To or Reference headers says Gene."
These are very different symptoms with probably very different causes
and fixes.
I don't know enough about how Kmail generates the In-Reply-To and
Reference headers to comment.
I think the In-Reply-To: and References: are two different critters. The
In-Reply-to: is legit, but the References: seems to, as Bill noted,
refer to our resubscribe date. I haven't a clue what or why that might
be worth including in a reply-to-list/all. Boggles my getting tinier
mind. Maybe I should up the B1 in my weekly pill-tainer? :)
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 11:58:40PM -0700, William
Morder via tde-users
wrote:
Which headers? Are you talking about person A's
address showing up
as the From address of person B's emails? Or some other header?
Yes, person A's (that is, Gene's) address shows up in the headers of
somebody else altogether. When person B sends me an email (not a
reply), I also get Gene's address in the headers. Person B doesn't know Gene at all,
doesn't know about TDE or the
list, and knows hardly anything about computers, hence uses the
rotten Apple and sometimes Windoze.
So you've said :-) but it's not really relevant unless it is a problem
with their mail client. It probably isn't.
201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net
which seems to be an email from 2018.
I did search for this email, and it seems not to exist at all;
indeed, never existed, I believe, because I save *almost*
everything, except spam and other crap like that.
8:45 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 01:11:43 Gene Heskett wrote:
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 03:49:47 Steven
D'Aprano wrote:
It is listed after References:
Oct 2021 22:16:09 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
<202110172038.05824.doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com>
In-Reply-To: <202110172038.05824.doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com>
Then there follows from:
From: person B <some_email(a)gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 12:15:57 +0700
Message-ID:> >
You will note that I cut out person B's details.
This is from the original email that got my attention, sent to me by person B
(not a member of the list). Since then I have got some others, both from
person B and when I send to and receive from the list.
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 11:58:40PM -0700, William
Morder via tde-users
wrote:
> > > Which headers? Are you talking about person A's address showing up
> > > as the From address of person B's emails? Or some other header?
> >
> > Yes, person A's (that is, Gene's) address shows up in the headers of
> > somebody else altogether. When person B sends me an email (not a
> > reply), I also get Gene's address in the headers.
>
> Yes, but *which* header?
>
> There is a huge difference between:
>
> "Person B sends me a fresh email, but the From address says Gene"
>
> and
>
> "Person B replies to my email, and when I use Show Headers, I see that
> one of the In-Reply-To or Reference headers says Gene."
>
> These are very different symptoms with probably very different causes
> and fixes.
I think the In-Reply-To: and References: are two different critters. The
In-Reply-to: is legit, but the References: seems to, as Bill noted,
refer to our resubscribe date. I haven't a clue what or why that might
be worth including in a reply-to-list/all. Boggles my getting tinier
mind. Maybe I should up the B1 in my weekly pill-tainer? :)
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
The fact that both Gene and I resubscribed on that date seems significant,
though I don't see how it can relate to person B.
However ... sigh ... it occurs to me that person B has lived in several
places, but is originally from India. And the TDE mailing has been getting
spammed now and then by somebody that seems to be from India. Again, I am
quite sure that she has better things to do, but maybe somebody linked her
emails to me, and my emails to the TDE list?
Bill
9:03 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
Il 20/10/2021 10:45, William Morder via tde-users ha scritto:
I would use a brutal workaround. I would look for the configuration file
that contains Person B's address.
Something like:
grep -Rl "text-to-find-here" /"directory.configuration.file.tde"
By examining the found file, I would try to understand the problem.
Rodolfo
9:58 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
Am Mittwoch, 20. Oktober 2021 schrieb William Morder via tde-users:
If she replied to your message then the reference to person A still
would originate from your system…
Cheers, Stefan
>
"Person B replies to my email, and when I use Show Headers, I see
> that one of the In-Reply-To or Reference headers says Gene."
>
> These are very different symptoms with probably very different
> causes and fixes.
It is listed after References:
Oct 2021 22:16:09 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
<202110172038.05824.doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com>
In-Reply-To: <202110172038.05824.doctor_contendo(a)zoho.com>
10:10 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 05:33:01PM +1100, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
3. And your emails have what look to me like corrupt
header lines, such
as this one:
+h=from:reply-to:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:message-id;
On further investigation, I *think* that may be a normal part of the ARC
system:
https://postmarkapp.com/blog/what-is-arc-or-authenticated-received-chain
so probably a red herring.
--
Steve
10:07 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
Further information on Bill's email issue. Here are two past emails from
him:
Sent Sun, 25 Apr 2021 20:21:16 GMT
Subject line is BINGO! 64-bit!
Fresh email, not a reply to anything, but has:
References: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
In-Reply-To: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
in the headers.
Sent Mon, 26 Jul 2021 20:57:34 GMT
Subject line is wrong timestamp - OT
Fresh email, not a reply to anything, but has:
References: <826b2aec-5d94-a8e7-625b-2c883295dcff(a)caramail.com>
<202107241035.47688.mb_trinity_desktop(a)inet-design.com>
<a84c0d35-9569-74b8-bfef-380ab701b98f(a)caramail.com>
In-Reply-To: <a84c0d35-9569-74b8-bfef-380ab701b98f(a)caramail.com>
in the headers.
Normally I would diagnose this as the sender hitting "Reply" to an
existing email, but Bill assures us that he doesn't do that.
The signs do appear to show that when Bill sends a fresh email,
something in the chain:
Bill's mail client
--> sending mail server (his ISP?)
--> any intermediate systems
--> mailing list
--> any intermediate systems
--> my mail server
--> my mail client
is messing up the References and In-Reply-To header. I'm confident it is
not either my mail server or client, and I would be shocked if it were
the mailing list or the ISP.
--
Steve
6:22 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Tuesday 19 October 2021 23:02:34 Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue October 19 2021 18:41:17 William Morder via
tde-users wrote:
That is the weird thing. I created a brand-new template, just for the Trinity
mailing list. To send this email, I created an entirely new email (to strip
out any metadata), then just copied in the text, addresses, etc.
It did occur to me already that it might be a case of "repurposed" emails; but
since I've already tried to eliminate that possibility, that seems not to be
the case.
Let's see if this email ends up with Gene's address in the headers.
Bill
P.S. By the way, please call me Bill within the mailing list. I just get in
the habit of using my full name on "public" or legal documents, but not in
actual conversation.
There is a recurring glitch in my emails, which
involves another person
(person A) here on the mailing list. (I don't name him here, but I have
already contacted him to ask about it.) It involves the mailing list,
maybe, because I only know him from the list, and we have only exchanged
a couple of personal emails outside the list.
Now here is the actual "problem": I have another friend (person B) who is
not a member of the list. When she recently sent me an email from her
phone, the private email address of this first person (person A, a member
of the list) showed up in her (person B's) email headers. There is
absolutely no other connection between these two persons, except of
course for myself.
Hi William,
Your email quoted in part above contains the following headers:
References: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
In-Reply-To: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
Either your KMail is really messed up or you sometimes start an
email and then repurpose it. For example it looks like that email
started as a reply to Gene and then you changed it to go to the
list but it already had the references to Gene in it.
This could explain how references to person A got into your
correspondence with person B.
--Mike
6:48 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Tue October 19 2021 23:22:28 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
That is the weird thing. I created a brand-new
template, just for the
Trinity mailing list. To send this email, I created an entirely new email
(to strip out any metadata), then just copied in the text, addresses, etc.
Might the extraneous headers be in your template(s)?
--Mike
7:01 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Tuesday 19 October 2021 23:48:09 Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue October 19 2021 23:22:28 William Morder via
tde-users wrote:
NO! I did check all this. Only after it gets sent, then Gene's address shows
up in the headers.
Bill
That is the weird thing. I created a brand-new
template, just for the
Trinity mailing list. To send this email, I created an entirely new email
(to strip out any metadata), then just copied in the text, addresses,
etc.
Might the extraneous headers be in your template(s)?
--Mike
7:58 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 02:48:09 Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue October 19 2021 23:22:28 William Morder via
tde-users wrote:
I don't think so, Mike. No customs are defined, and this is the reply to
all/list its using right now:
%REM="Default reply all template"%-
On %ODATEEN %OTIMELONGEN %OFROMNAME wrote:
%BLANK
%QUOTE
%BLANK
%CURSOR
So I'm still clueless.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
That is the weird thing. I created a brand-new
template, just for
the Trinity mailing list. To send this email, I created an entirely
new email (to strip out any metadata), then just copied in the text,
addresses, etc.
Might the extraneous headers be in your template(s)?
--Mike
9:13 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 03:58:52AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
I don't think so, Mike. No customs are defined,
and this is the reply to
all/list its using right now:
Gene, the problem is with Bill's emails, not you. There is no point in
you search through your mail templates and configs, nothing on your
computer could possibly be affecting the emails Bill sends out, or
emails he receives from others.
Not unless you are running a mail server and Bill is sending mail
through your server.
--
Steve
2:11 p.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
On Wednesday 20 October 2021 05:13:34 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 03:58:52AM -0400, Gene Heskett
wrote:
Not guilty. :o)
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
I don't think so, Mike. No customs are
defined, and this is the
reply to all/list its using right now:
Gene, the problem is with Bill's emails, not you. There is no point in
you search through your mail templates and configs, nothing on your
computer could possibly be affecting the emails Bill sends out, or
emails he receives from others.
Not unless you are running a mail server and Bill is sending mail
through your server.
9:36 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
Please note that Bill is replying to Mike Bird, not Gene.
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 11:22:28PM -0700, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 19 October 2021 23:02:34 Mike Bird wrote:
[...]
> Hi William,
>
> Your email quoted in part above contains the following headers:
>
> References: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
> In-Reply-To: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
Let's see if this email ends up with Gene's
address in the headers.
Bill
Yes, it has the same two lines as above.
References: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
In-Reply-To: <201802171815.09906.gheskett(a)shentel.net>
It should not do this. The In-Reply-To header should refer to Mike's
email, which has this id:
Message-Id: <202110192302.34221.mgb-trinity(a)yosemite.net>
and the References should give a complete chain:
- the first email you sent in this thread;
- Mike responded to that;
- and you responded to Mike.
So in your response, there should be three references:
1. the mystery reference claiming to be from Gene (which should not be
there, but since it was there, we must count it);
2. the email ID of your first email starting this thread;
3. the email ID of Mike's response.
Instead, only number 1 (the mystery reference) is there. That's not
right! At the very least, the In-Reply-To should be set to Mike's email,
not the mystery Gene email.
Bill, it would be good to eliminate some possible suspects, starting
with the mailing list software.
If you agree, can you please create a new, blank email, using whatever
template you would normally use, and send it *directly* to me at:
steve at pearwood dot info
Then, if possible, create a second blank email, using *no template* at
all, and send it to me again using the same address.
That will let me see:
- if we eliminate the mailing list, does the problem remain?
- are your email headers okay if you send directly?
- does the template make a difference?
Do you have another way of sending email? Thunderbird, or mutt, perhaps?
If you do, you can send me a third email using the different client, and
see if the header issues go away.
Hopefully we can find the problem by a process of elimination. In the
words of Sherlock Holmes, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever
remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
Unless you're talking about computers, in which case the only way to
solve some problems is to Reboot, Reinstall, Resign.
--
Steve
7:32 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not - a clue
Bingo. Maybe not the solution, but it's gotta be connected somehow, I believe.
On 20180217, both Gene Heskett and myself unsubscribed then resubscribed to
the mailing list.
If I recall aright, Gene was having problems, and I was having some kind of
problem sending or receiving to the list myself, so I decided that I would
resubscribe, as well.
The time doesn't match any of those emails, but both these events occurred on
the same day.
This doesn't explain the emails to and from person B, who isn't a member of
the list. I checked my correspondence with her, and there were no emails on
that date.
Does this make sense to anybody out there? I can see the correlation, but no
actual causal relationship among any of the parties involved.
Bill
9:15 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not - a clue
On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 12:32:26AM -0700, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Bingo. Maybe not the solution, but it's gotta be
connected somehow, I believe.
On 20180217, both Gene Heskett and myself unsubscribed then resubscribed to
the mailing list.
There may be a connection, but it doesn't explain the other broken crud
in your email headers, or the fact that some of your past replies have
the wrong references.
(I will see if I can dig up an example.)
--
Steve
11:48 a.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not - a clue
Dne st 20. října 2021 William Morder via tde-users napsal(a):
Bingo. Maybe not the solution, but it's gotta be
connected somehow, I
believe.
On 20180217, both Gene Heskett and myself unsubscribed then resubscribed
to the mailing list.
If I recall aright, Gene was having problems, and I was having some kind
of problem sending or receiving to the list myself, so I decided that I
would resubscribe, as well.
The time doesn't match any of those emails, but both these events
occurred on the same day.
This doesn't explain the emails to and from person B, who isn't a member
of the list. I checked my correspondence with her, and there were no
emails on that date.
Does this make sense to anybody out there? I can see the correlation,
but no actual causal relationship among any of the parties involved.
Bill
____________________________________________________
Bill,
please can you send a completely newly created message to my private
address to see if there will still be the headers referring to an
unrelated old message?
Thanks
--
Slávek
10:04 p.m.
New subject: email mess - maybe OT or not
I fell asleep after not receiving any replies for awhile. When I got up in the
middle of the night, I sent out a couple of test emails to Slavek and Steve,
but haven't heard anything else. I did view source for those emails, and they
seem not to contain the bothersome lines referring to Gene's email address.
Likewise I checked a few other emails that I had sent and received (other
persons, not part of the TDE list, nor person B that I mentioned previously);
these emails also did not contain those lines referring to Gene's address.
Also, this evidently started fairly recently, as earlier emails to these
persons and the TDE list *do not* contain the reference to Gene's address. I
haven't yet narrowed it down to exact dates, but it seems to be recent.
So far I am left to guess that the connection, if any, is limited to myself,
Gene, person B, and the TDE mailing list.
Now then, Dr Watson, what do you make of it? And please keep in mind that
Sherlock Holmes was not so thoroughly scientific as his latter-day followers
would like to pretend. We must do better.
Bill
Bill
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