tde-users September 2020

users@trinitydesktop.org

21 participants
82 discussions

systemd-homed - new thread
by William Morder 16 Sep '20

16 Sep '20

From Nik's previous post: https://linuxreviews.org/Systemd-homed This systemd crap is already bad enough, but homed will eventually work its way into other stuff beyond systemd, and then will become hard to avoid. It *sounds* good, being able to move home directories from one machine to another without so much fuss; but I already do that, pretty much, with only a little fuss. My suspicion is that somebody's mother is now trying to impose conformity on everybody, not just myself, to do our thinking for us; because, of course, it is for our own good. They are trying to get rid of a headache by giving us nightmares instead. Bill P.S. Note that I alone am sticking to the discipline of creating a completely new thread.

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installing icecat from source packages
by William Morder 15 Sep '20

15 Sep '20

One of those headaches, for myself, is installing from source packages. I hate doing it, mainly because there are different archives, different methods for extraction, etc. No two sets of instructions for untar and install, etc., look alike. You may disagree, if you like, but that's how it goes with me. Anyway ... I managed to get icecat installed from source packages, the latest stable version, 60-something. (I saw a version 90-something on their site, but wonder about the 30 versions in-between that are missing ...) Right away, I noticed that a lot of problems totally vanished. I could explain in more detail, but some will believe me, and some will not, according to their own needs and wants. Now that I have it fresh in my mind, what needs to be done to make a successful installation, and seeing how useful it is, and wondering how I lived with lesser browsers, I thought maybe others might benefit from knowing the steps, now that I have it still fresh in my mind. If there is some way of sharing this list of steps, I would be glad to retrace; but I don't want to go to this trouble if nobody cares. It may be that a) it's already obvious how-to for most readers of this list, or b) others are already satisfied with their browsers, or c) don't care, for a host of other reasons or non-reasons. On a side note, I wonder if we could get a proper, working, up-to-date version of icecat into the repositories somewhere (as it has disappeared from Trisquel and others). I suppose a browser is not really a candidate for becoming a TDE-Trinity package? but it is a thought, since we already have Konqueror, which is a web browser as well as a file manager. Just making the offer, if anybody would find it useful. I don't even know where I would post it, that it could be found by those who are searching for it. Bill jabber/xmpp dr_mojo_contendo(a)hot-chilli.net

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Icecat Downloads
by BorgLabs - Kate Draven 15 Sep '20

15 Sep '20

If you want to give Icecat a go, you can get it here. https://mirrors.ocf.berkeley.edu/gnu/gnuzilla/60.7.0/ It's a year old. Just tried it on Big Daddy and it works well. Kate --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

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Re: Auto-mount no longer auto-mounts (TDE mediamanager)
by BorgLabs - Kate Draven 14 Sep '20

14 Sep '20

> On Monday 14 September 2020 04:31:41 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: > > Anno domini 2020 Mon, 14 Sep 07:21:53 -0400 > > > > BorgLabs - Kate Draven via tde-users scripsit: > > > On Sunday 13 September 2020, Michael via tde-users wrote: > > > > On Sunday 13 September 2020 12:58:14 pm William Morder via tde-users > wrote: > > > > > On Sunday 13 September 2020 07:55:00 Michael via tde-users wrote: > > > > > > On Tuesday 08 September 2020 09:18:30 am Michael via tde-users > wrote: > > > > > > > On Tuesday 08 September 2020 01:04:43 am William Morder via > > > > > > > tde-users > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Monday 07 September 2020 22:53:46 deloptes via tde-users > wrote: > > > > > > > > > William Morder via tde-users wrote: > > > > > > > > > > When I want to inspect my hard drives (internal/external, > > > > > > > > > > mounted/unmounted), I found it is sometimes useful to > > > > > > > > > > enter, in the address bar: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > media:/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This gives me information about my drives at a glance, as > > > > > > > > > > well as allowing access to various tools and settings for > > > > > > > > > > working with those disks and partitions. I don't use it > > > > > > > > > > often (relatively speaking), but now I find that I cannot > > > > > > > > > > use it at all when running Konqueror as root. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it using dbus and dbus is not running for root? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know. It used to work for me before, in Jessie, and > > > > > > > > especially when running Kubuntu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I get that message in both root and user level Konqueror. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But! I know media:/ works just after sticking in a thumb drive > > > > > > > as it does it's auto-mount thing and then a Konqueror pop-up with > > > > > > > media:/{thumb-drive} in the Location bar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my 2 cents, > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > My 2 cents is no longer valid. The auto-mount thing no longer > > > > > > auto-mounts. > > > > > > > > > > > > - This system* was built ~7/25, auto-mount worked correctly then. > > > > > > - AFAIK auto-mount worked correctly around 8/15. > > > > > > - Last rebooted 8/26. > > > > > > - As of today, 9/13, sticking in a USB drive does not auto-mount. > > > > > > - Manually mounting works. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know what changed in the last month or so? > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > And here was I thinking that it was all in my head. Besides these > > > > > problems, I have other weird developments; like, for example, my > > > > > customized mount points no longer being recognized. > > > > > > > > I needed to reboot and now auto-mount and media:/ work correctly again > > > > for normal user. > > > > > > > > root - Konqueror, throws errors: > > > > > > > > media:/ > > > > > > > > The TDE mediamanager is not running. > > > > > > > > During the previous startup, KNotify crashed while instantiating > > > > KNotify. Do you want to try again or disable aRts sound output? > > > > If you choose to disable aRts output now, you can re-enable it later or > > > > select an alternate sound player in the System Notifications control > > > > panel. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > I also get the arts crash as root. No more info on that. > > > > > > The TDE mediamanager thing happened to me when I had > > > lib64ice6-1.0.10-1pclos2019.x86_64 installed. I downgraded to > > > lib64ice6-1.0.9-2pclos2016.x86_64 and it stopped mostly. > > > > What is that "lib64ice6" ? I don't see it on devuan/beowulf. > > > > For your entertainment: https://linuxreviews.org/Systemd-homed - just > > imagine that thing enabled on your systems ... > > > > Nik > > > > > Kate > > > > > All this is very interesting, but I wonder what is causing it. Another thing > that happens in my system recently (in the past few weeks): when I plug in a > flash drive, suddenly a little bouncing icon for VLC starts up, meaning that > something has awakened and is loading. > > Problem is, VLC isn't installed on my system. I do install it now and again, > because it's the only way that I can watch DVDs; other players just don't cut > it. (For other videos, I tend to use smplayer.) But I have never installed > VLC in this new system, devuan beowulf. When I look at what's running in top, > nothing obvious shows up. > > I've been transferring music files to micro SD cards, to put in smartphones > for myself and a friend; and suddenly Konqueror has started created its own > custom mount points, ignores fstab, ignores my automount scripts, basically > is putting out something that looks like original defaults for those devices. > (Before that, I couldn't get some of these gadgets to mount at all.) > > So here is a sample of the "mount points"* that have been bestowed upon me, > against my will, by some higher, non-human intelligence: > > /media/Elements_25A1 > /media/External_HDD____ > /media/Mass_Storage_Device > /media/My_Book_________ > /media/<pete> > /media/<user> > /media/USB_Storage > > * Note that names in brackets (< >) have been changed to protect the innocent; > they are not my real mount points. > > I always create my own unique names for mount points; names like Pete and Fred > (though I am more inventive still ...) are easier to remember than keeping > straight which drive is Mass_Storage_Device and which is USB_Storage, or > Elements_25A1 or My_Book_________. (Incidentally, WTF with the weird > lines???) > > Another thing is, dbus seems to be acting weird, and I don't know enough about > it to attempt corrections. I already have rather a lot on my plate at the > moment. > > These developments are all new, since my installation of beowulf/buster; I > never had anything like this is jessie or before, never even with the old > KDE3. It reminds me of those *other* DEs or OSs that I try so hard to avoid. > > Somebody please make sense of these developing disasters. > > Bill > _______________________________________________ Check your file associations. kcontrol > TDE Components > File Associations Check Storage Media settings: kcontrol > peripherals > storage media See what you find. Look for anything related to removable media. Kate --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

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TDE mediamanager - missing in root Konqueror ?
by William Morder 14 Sep '20

14 Sep '20

So this is a brand-new thread, because I want to set a good example for others. (That's me, a role model to the youth ...) I encountered a problem in the newest version of Konqueror that did not seem to exist in the older versions, so far as I know. When I want to inspect my hard drives (internal/external, mounted/unmounted), I found it is sometimes useful to enter, in the address bar: media:/ This gives me information about my drives at a glance, as well as allowing access to various tools and settings for working with those disks and partitions. I don't use it often (relatively speaking), but now I find that I cannot use it at all when running Konqueror as root. See attachments for screenshots. (Note that my weird colors in root are intentional; I override some settings to make it easier on my old eyes.) I already tested this on a fresh installation, before applying any customized settings. When it's not there, I find that I need to use it much more than I remember. I am sure that there are other ways to obtain the same information, other ways to accomplish the same things -- and I would be glad to hear them -- but for now, however, I really want to retrieve these tools. I have installed some new hard drives, and as usual, they need some help in finding their proper place in my system. Thanks for any help or suggestions! Bill jabber/xmpp dr_mojo_contendo(a)hot-chilli.net

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Project status report - tasks
by Slávek Banko 13 Sep '20

13 Sep '20

Hi all, in previous emails we recalled the history of the project and got acquainted with the current infrastructure. Now comes probably the most interesting part - tasks and topics for discussion. Tasks related to the infrastructure and organization of the project will be mentioned here. Discussions about development and source code are taking place on the tde-devels mailing list and on TGW - we will not mention them here now, because they are a different topic. -- Migration of services -- First of all, we need to complete the migration of services from Tim's original infrastructure. We will discuss the individual services that remain to be migrated in separate threads. Here's a quick overview: 1. web server: successfully migrated, several minor tasks remain to be solved. 2. git repository: SCM successfully replaced by Gitea, CGit fully functional. 3. mailing lists: successfully created brand new MLs, archive migrated, users now have time to subscribe to the new MLs and leave the old ones, which will be stopped later on. 4. wiki: successfully migrated, a new TDE skin remains to be created. 5. bugzilla: needs to be migrated or replaced with issues in TGW. 6. weblate: new service on VPS fully operational. 7. automation scripts: up and running and compared to the primary server, all branches are processed, not just the master. 8. crash reports storage service: needs to be migrated and improved, we don't know anything about this service. 9. patchwork: may be canceled, no one uses it, TGW provides much better functionality. 10. primary archive: successfully migrated, reorganized, cleaned up. 11. build service: QuickBuild replaced by reprepro + sbuild, now semi-automated without web interface, need further improvements. 12. etherpad: we should consider copy what we need and move it to TGW wiki. -- Project Legal status + donations -- Subsequently, we need to clarify the ownership of the project, which at the moment belongs to Tim as per CLA document. We shall also discuss about moving from a CLA to a DCO model, since this simplify contributions to the project (and to be fair, DCO has been used so far in most cases already). We will also discuss this as a separate thread. As you can see in the summary in previous e-mail, currently the project lives only thanks to donations from TDE team members. The donation link on the web is linked to Tim's account. Therefore, we have no idea what donation comes there and how they are used. Tim usually mentioned that donations are very low and that they are not enough for Tim's original infrastructure. We have no other information about these donations. In any case, at present, the TDE team does not have any project funding. Although it may be unbelievable, it is so - the project has no cash at its disposal. It all depends on the efforts of TDE team members and volunteers. Once we have clarified the rights to the project, we can discuss how to create the legal status of the project and how to go about accepting donations and hopefully make the TDE infrastructure more resilient. We will also discuss this as a separate thread. Once we have resolved the legal status and donations, we can return to the discussion of project promotion and merchandise. After all, it was a strong discussion that initiated this project status report. You can believe that I would also like to have a polo shirt, t-shirt and other things with the promotion of the TDE project. -- Renaming and moving into main distros -- Another challenging task for discussion is the very sensitive topic of renaming. As you know, many empirical renaming of KDE => TDE, K => TDE has already been done. A more significant renaming of Krita => Chalk was also made. In any case, there are many other programs and libraries that would cause a collision if TDE was installed in the usual /usr path instead of a separate /opt/trinity. I know that this is a sensitive topic, that this will not be of any benefit to our current users, and that it will require a lot of effort. We normally put it off until later, because we always have a lot of other and more useful work. However, we have to keep in mind that if we want to allow installation into /usr and thus also integration into distributions, we will sooner or later have to do the renaming. -- Wayland -- Another important topic that we will sooner or later be forced to deal with is called Wayland. It is difficult to consider this a successful project, because even after 12 years from the beginning of development, there are doubts about the readiness for production use. This begs the question of whether Wayland causes more problems than he solves. However, it is clear that there is a lot of pressure to enforce it "no matter what it costs" and so it may come a time when we need to adapt to it and add integration in TDE. -- Migration to Python3 -- In addition to the renaming and wayland tasks, where we think it will be something on a long term horizon, there is one global task that is already relevant at this time - the migration of the existing python2 code to python3, due to the imminent demise of python 2 from major distributions. Fortunately, this is not directly related to core modules (tdeedu seems to be ready for python3), but it will be important to make an effort to do so. This was the last part of the project status report. Subsequently, we will open discussions, as mentioned. If you have any other ideas regarding the status of the project, infrastructure, global tasks, do not hesitate to respond, or open a separate thread for discussion. I am glad that, thanks to the joint efforts of all of us, we can consider the status of the project to be good. Thanks to everyone - TDE team, translators, users and donors. Cheers -- Slávek

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Spell Check Dictionaries
by Baron 11 Sep '20

11 Sep '20

Hi Guys, I hope that everybody is staying safe and well ! Please could somebody tell me where Trinity stores its dictionary's. Mine seem to have a lot of duplicated words in them and I would like to clean them up if possible. Thanks in advance. -- Best Regards: Baron --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

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Re: data recovery - recommendations & strategies
by BorgLabs - Kate Draven 11 Sep '20

11 Sep '20

> On Thu September 10 2020 15:49:21 BorgLabs - Kate Draven via tde-users wrote: > > Sage advice. Advice I follow with redundancy. > > I back up important stuff to a "backups" directory, then /home to another > > internal drive, which is raided with another. Then to 2 external drives. > > > > I also make DVD backups. > > > > I lost data once, about 22 years ago. I had to start from scratch. Never > > again. > > I can't afford the time for DVD backups these days but a lot of > our stuff is mirrored, plus sets of three rotating hard drive > backups via rsync over ssh. Your top risk factor then is human > error. > > An unfortunate young lady sysadmin in our group circa 1980 > mistyped a tar-pipe-tar disk-to-disk backup command pipeline > and with the pipe buffer then being a fixed 4KB managed to > truncate every file on the server to 4KB. Took her several > days to reinstall and reconfigure and recover from the weekly > tape backup but she succeeded. > > I once accidentally deleted the wrong LVM volume group when > reorganizing our backup system. After a screw-up like that > it's important not to thrash around and possibly corrupt any > deleted data. After much studying and heartburn vgcfgrestore > fixed things perfectly in an instant. > > --Mike > _______________________________________________ HUMANS? Mike, you need to spray for those. Sounds like you have a good setup. Me, however, I'm old fashioned. I don't believe in anything other than local backups drives (some redudants are stored off site for safety) and DVDs. I have a MASSIVE collection of DVDs books spanning back to 1995. I just popped one in from 96 and copied the data to an ssd, just to see if I could do it. No school like old school. But seriously Mike, spray for those humans. They have diseases. Kate --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

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Re: data recovery - recommendations & strategies
by BorgLabs - Kate Draven 11 Sep '20

11 Sep '20

> On Thursday 10 September 2020 10:44:42 BorgLabs - Kate Draven via tde-users > wrote: > > > On Thursday 10 September 2020 10:27:38 BorgLabs - Kate Draven via > > > tde-users > > > > > > wrote: > > > > On Thursday 10 September 2020, William Morder via tde-users wrote: > > > > > Hello again! > > > > > > > > > > I told you that you'd miss me when I'm gone. :-] > > > > > > > > > > Please, I need recommendations or strategies for recovering data. I > > > > > had > > > > a > > > > > > > flash drive become unreadable, after I plugged it into my new printer > > > > > to print out some documents that had been long in waiting. Then, > > > > > before I could save myself, I had a 1.5 TB hard drive also fail. On > > > > > this hard drive is (of course) the source of those backup copies on > > > > > the flash drive. This is the partition which I was just about to > > > > > backup. > > > > > > > > > > I have several hard drives, from 200 GB up to 8 TB, from 20 years old > > > > > to brand-new; all are WD, except for one which is Seagate. Guess > > > > > which one failed? I forget when I got it, or why I ever would have > > > > > got anything > > > > but > > > > > > > WD, or why I would have put anything important there. > > > > > > > > > > I have used ddrescue to try to recover the data, as well as other > > > > > forensics tools. Recovered images (img and iso) are saved, and taking > > > > > up space, but I cannot determine if there is any useful content in > > > > > what was recovered. The failing partition has not been deleted. It > > > > > cannot be read or mounted, so I have just left it like that, so that > > > > > I can try to save it. > > > > > > > > > > Every attempt to recover the data gives the same result: 2 errors, > > > > > 3072 B, that cannot be read. I tried using tools to look inside the > > > > > saved iso image, but no luck there. I don't want to erase or format > > > > > the failing disk partition until I am sure that I have recovered the > > > > > data. > > > > > > > > > > My last hope is that I have another 1.5 TB hard drive; I could try to > > > > > write the disk images to that partition before I format the old > > > > > drive. But first, of course, I would need to backup materials from > > > > > that drive, and now I am running out of space again. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. And if things were not bad enough, the skies here in San > > > > > Francisco are a muddy mixture of orange, black, brown and gray. At > > > > > noon today, it looked like the middle of the night. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > tde-users mailing list -- users(a)trinitydesktop.org > > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org > > > > > Web mail archive available at > > > > https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydes > > > > > > >kt op.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > There's another option but a wee bit expensive. > > > > > > > > Purchase the same model SG drive (or whatever model etc) that failed > > > > and swap out the electronics. > > > > > > > > Assuming there's no mechanical damage, it will work. > > > > It's often why I buy drives in pairs. > > > > > > > > Hope this was helpful. > > > > > > > > Kate > > > > > > It is an internal hard drive, not external. Is that what you mean? > > > > > > Bill > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > I understand. I mean swap out the IDE boards on the drives. > > Make sure to mark the bad one so you don't try to reuse it. > > > > I've done that only a few times but it works. They must be the same model. > > > > Kate > > I do have another 1.5 TB hard drive (though I would need to backup its data > first); however, it is WD, not Seagate, and I would not willingly buy another > Seagate hard drive. > > Bill > _______________________________________________ You can't mix boards. They must be the same make and model. Perhaps you can buy just the board? Or a used working one? I've used both SG and WD and have had far more failures with WD. I guess it depends on the models and how they are used? I currently have nearly all SG drives in the "big machine" the server. 12 drives in total with no failures over the last 10 years. Kate --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

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Re: data recovery - recommendations & strategies
by BorgLabs - Kate Draven 10 Sep '20

10 Sep '20

> On Thursday 10 September 2020 10:27:38 BorgLabs - Kate Draven via tde-users > wrote: > > On Thursday 10 September 2020, William Morder via tde-users wrote: > > > Hello again! > > > > > > I told you that you'd miss me when I'm gone. :-] > > > > > > Please, I need recommendations or strategies for recovering data. I had a > > > flash drive become unreadable, after I plugged it into my new printer to > > > print out some documents that had been long in waiting. Then, before I > > > could save myself, I had a 1.5 TB hard drive also fail. On this hard > > > drive is (of course) the source of those backup copies on the flash > > > drive. This is the partition which I was just about to backup. > > > > > > I have several hard drives, from 200 GB up to 8 TB, from 20 years old to > > > brand-new; all are WD, except for one which is Seagate. Guess which one > > > failed? I forget when I got it, or why I ever would have got anything but > > > WD, or why I would have put anything important there. > > > > > > I have used ddrescue to try to recover the data, as well as other > > > forensics tools. Recovered images (img and iso) are saved, and taking up > > > space, but I cannot determine if there is any useful content in what was > > > recovered. The failing partition has not been deleted. It cannot be read > > > or mounted, so I have just left it like that, so that I can try to save > > > it. > > > > > > Every attempt to recover the data gives the same result: 2 errors, 3072 > > > B, that cannot be read. I tried using tools to look inside the saved iso > > > image, but no luck there. I don't want to erase or format the failing > > > disk partition until I am sure that I have recovered the data. > > > > > > My last hope is that I have another 1.5 TB hard drive; I could try to > > > write the disk images to that partition before I format the old drive. > > > But first, of course, I would need to backup materials from that drive, > > > and now I am running out of space again. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > P.S. And if things were not bad enough, the skies here in San Francisco > > > are a muddy mixture of orange, black, brown and gray. At noon today, it > > > looked like the middle of the night. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tde-users mailing list -- users(a)trinitydesktop.org > > > To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)trinitydesktop.org > > > Web mail archive available at > > > https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydes > > >kt op.org > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > There's another option but a wee bit expensive. > > > > Purchase the same model SG drive (or whatever model etc) that failed and > > swap out the electronics. > > > > Assuming there's no mechanical damage, it will work. > > It's often why I buy drives in pairs. > > > > Hope this was helpful. > > > > Kate > > > > It is an internal hard drive, not external. Is that what you mean? > > Bill > _______________________________________________ I understand. I mean swap out the IDE boards on the drives. Make sure to mark the bad one so you don't try to reuse it. I've done that only a few times but it works. They must be the same model. Kate --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

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tde-users September 2020